Here we go. Anyway, want to remind you again, last piece of defense F-16 made was "I never made a post like that, you say it's scum, find me a scumgame where I made such a post". This is key, because it's indeed a post that doesn't get made by people unless something is going on. It took 12 pages now and only kaze comes with a vague "welll maybe I know what you are talking about but idk", so this is going to be hella exciting. Tammy's response was "I've seen f-16 make such analysis before". I suspected that, although I didn't know.
In post 92, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote: In post 68, pieguyn wrote:flavor doesn't determine alignment, which means that especially given annie's alignment in series was left unresolved annie's alignment in game could be just about anything
however roles should come from flavor and I'd expect smth like miller would
@F-16:
what made you sure on Bert-town? especially considering you said you don't trust early miller claims especially from someone like him. I still don't get the "weak" and there's still a chance annie as a character could be outright mafia based on the statement about flavor. did I miss smth 0.0
My "
I don't trust early miller claims
" was bait for Brian to see what he would do. In another game, Brian claimed miller and got lynched. Scum were both pushing on him. I felt that if Brian was town, he would sympathize with Bert and defend him. His
43 fits that theory although it is matched with a good amount of paranoia as shown in
64.
Bert is a weaker townread based on his claim. I know Bert quite well now and he doesn't strike me as the gambiting scum type. He is very good at faking his town meta and paranoia as scum, and as such wouldn't want to risk being exposed. Also, Pitoli had a miller in her previous game so I wouldn't find it an odd role coming from Pitoli. I still need more interaction with Bert and for him to clarify what "weak" is supposed to mean in order to solidify that read.
Okay, so I read through Pitoli's last game and saw that Brian Skies immediately claimed miller upon entering the game.
I thought it would be interesting to analyze the reactions there to here.
Mini 1501: We're on a Boat
1) Grimgroove
YYR
- Doesn't vote the miller but picks up on a different scummy player (Aeronaut) and votes him instead.
2) notscience - Says that miller claims are absolutely null and WIFOM but is convinced enough to vote Brian upon CDB's request.
3) Yates
ChannelDelibird
- CDB asks in post 17 why Brian is acting as if claiming miller will allow him to live for a while. The motivation is a push for a information and potentially a lynch that day. In hindsight this appears to be a town motivation.
4) fferyllt - fferyllt picks up on something that Brian said about dying anyways and then inquires about it. The notable point is that she wants to know why Brian is thinking the way he does and tries to understand his thought process.
5) Albert B. Rampage
SleepyKrew
Aeronaut
- Says nothing about the miller claim but votes Brian.
6) CrashTextDummie - Lynch all D1 miller claims!
7) Garmr - "
Everyone seems to be claiming miller these days maybe it's a new meta rolling in.
" No engagement at all with the claim. There is also a lack of opportunism or jump onto the wagon. Speaks more to the skill of the player as opposed to alignment.
8) LolWagons
Smudger
- Smudger never played in a game with one before.
9) Peabody
Kazekirimaru
- Kaze in
post 27 says he is not sure how to feel about the miller claim and says that it could be coming from town or faking scum. There is a lot of caution that is expressed here. Says later that miller claims in general are not null in
post 62.
10)
Empire
Maestro
- Maestro says "
lol D1 Millerclaim, u so cute. I'll post later when I care.
" - This post shows comfort in the assumption that a miller claim is nothing of concern while not caring about much else. Empire initially hedges on the miller claim in his first post but in his initial reads list (ISO him), he lists Brian as one of his suspects and takes issue with the presentation of the miller claim.
11) Plum - Plum comes into the thread much after the miller wagon has formed and had been talked about. She takes an interesting stance of "
Three acceptances of he Miller claim as legit in a row. Huh. Personally am of the Llamafluff school of first-post Miller claims, and there are a good few I'd lynch before Brian on scumminess merit.
" in her first post. Then she starts attacking people for believing the miller claim.
12) SpyreX - Says that the miller claim is legit and jumps onto Aero. Says that scum would be opportunistic about it. Since he was the SK, I am not entirely sure if he was scumhunting or just pretending to.
Out of the players here, I found Plum's stance the most townish on a gut level. She seems to be very inquisitive and wants to find out more information about the miller and asks Bert questions to figure out whether he is town. As scum in the Boat game, she seemed very evasive about Brian's game and seemed to sweep it under the rug and started attacking people for believing the miller claim without actually being inquisitive and probing for more information so she could figure it out. She also spent a lot more time justifying her stance "Lllamafluff school of thought" etc.
I found Kaze's initial reaction scummy becuase he was a lot more cautious to a previous miller claim. However, his insistence in the Boat game that a miller claim is not null followed by his push on Bert here actually makes a lot more sense as town because he seems to have differing reactions based on each claim. He doesn't believe that it is actually null, and in this game, he seems to believe that it is scummy. Kaze, I would like to know what your reasons are and how you differentiate the miller claims.
Bolded one line, cause I want to answer to it. He thinks it's interesting to analyse the reactions of a previous game to a miller claim. Okay... The link is three players and that the mod is the same.
Now, this is page four. What sensible person would put a rather big amount of effort into doing analysis on a different game that early, with that little to gain? Basically, his analysis does very little only put a little bit of doubt on kaze, and F-16 is very passive with the last paragraph as well. It's big effort, low gain, but damn it looks nice.
If a town would have had to make a post in the same spot, he'd comment on
this
game. He wouldn't put a huge effort post that soon into the game because his information still was limited, and in 20 pages he might gain more from a comparison between playstyles in both games, not after 4 pages here. He wouldn't basically put more time in that game then the one he's in
after 4 pages
.
That's why that post stands out so much, first regardless of player. It's an effort post that comes way too soon, it's showing off while doing very little. F-16 pushed kaze again just 2 pages ago and he doesn't mention this post anymore, where he's analysing kaze and comes out with a negative result. And I've seen F-16 now a couple of games, and this is not how he starts out. If anything, F-16's early game is characterized by timidity, he's always watching the game rather then doing stuff till very late in the day compared to other players. The post doesn't make sense for a general townie, and it doesn't make sense for f-16.
It would make a lot of sense if f-16 is aware he makes analysis posts more often (which is why I'm glad someone recognizes that, because I hadn't seen him make such a one), and that it "fits his meta". It might fit his meta, but the timing is way off. It's a scummy post and it really stands out as such. Which is why halfway my first catchup (since you posted 6 pages in the time I slept then, I think), I already thought that there wouldn't appear a better vote in the next 4 pages. It really is that big.
Surrender, imagine and of course wear something nice.
I know we simply don't mesh well, Tammy.