Mini 1538: POWERFUL WIZARDS (SpyreX Lives!)

[Porkens]

Omg Plum, missed you.

Speed wagon fuck the maf out of their first night kill.

vote: actiondan

[Porkens]

No, nooooo, don't get distracted. No RVS, we lunch tonight before the scum can get their night actions in. Lynch, now. Next post: vote actiondan

[Porkens]

If you read the rules and my post, and then the other person explaining my post, I think it was pretty obvious.

SSK and Kagami both defending Katsuki must be too good to be true, right? Let's find out.

vote: Katsuki

[Porkens]

@SpyreX: could you not edit in VCs at the top of pages, please? They do nothing for the people who want to ISO you to see the flow of votes; it's better to have VCs less frequently if we at least know that they are part of your ISO.

Noted.

You want to know what is a damned serious vote?

UNVOTE: Katsuki
VOTE: Fate

Come out and play!

This is a very disappointing and surprising unvote. I think there is valid reason to have pressure on Katsuki. Why would you leap off like that?

[Porkens]

Pressure on Katsuki isn't going to be any more enticing with two votes than with one, and I am quite capable of changing my vote later if need be.

A 2-vote wagon has momentum. A 1-vote wagon just sits there like a pair of shit-in pants. And in light of this:

havent read game tierce still scum

It hurts even more.

As for all the meta-weiners being waggled around, either explain clearly or drop it.

[Porkens]

I'm starting to freak out just a little. Plum, can you throw me a lifeline here? If the game allows

nonsense

like

this

:

VOTE: LLD

Okay the lynch fast lynch random plan sounds awesome and all, but I'm really really not getting how it's a oh you're scum because you didn't fall in line with our lynch easy random plan just to get scum not to get a night kill. I'm sorry but what the fuck? Who gives a flying flip if we lynch town and scum don't get a nightkill; we've lynched town? And there's really nothign better you could have gotten on beyond random for that let's lynch quick wagon. Maybe I'm stupid or slow but I'd just rather have a chance at lynching scum first than a random shot and going into day two with absolutely nothing at fucking all except being one player down. And do you know the chances that when spyrex sent out roles someone didn't send in a provisional or that scum was here in your night brigade? Probably pretty low.

I got my pm last night just as I was falling asleep and thought to myself Tierce was definite scum for her stance (I even dreamed you killed me after getting the lynch on Dan to go through!) but her posts today made me go oh my dreams were probably all for naught!

Anyway, i think I can read katsuki soon, and what I'm most displeased by is LLD. Kanye could also have pushed his Tierce vote more strongly; I'd have loved to have seen him do his early rvs thing where he's pushing to get reaction and he doesn't care who tries to stop him and he pushes against anyone who defies him just to get a read. But he didn't in this game. However, LLD is posturing around the early Tierce RVS wagon in a way that reminds me of last year's Mafia.Maiden game how she did with my early game. Like there's no way that you can take Kanye's early vote on Tierce and be that serious. It feels too much like she's posturing around that non-existent wagon.

If I was you wouldn't know the difference anyway. I was praying for a scum role pm with this playerlist, because it would be an easy win. I've got a solid bead on how to make over half this town read me as solid town. I wouldn't be drawing this attention to myself.

But by all means, try your luck Kanye.

Pressure on Katsuki isn't going to be any more enticing with two votes than with one, and I am quite capable of changing my vote later if need be.

A 2-vote wagon has momentum. A 1-vote wagon just sits there like a pair of shit-in pants. And in light of this:

havent read game tierce still scum

It hurts even more.

As for all the meta-weiners being waggled around, either explain clearly or drop it.

Then come join me and Fate goes down first. He's a more dangerous scum player than Katsuki, at any rate, although Katsuki pays more attention than he likes to pretend he does.

Talking about Fate, guess who is still pointedly avoiding this thread!

to fly, I'm going to lose it.

[Porkens]

Katsuki wagon needs another wheel, two horses to pull it, and some jackass to hammer.

[Porkens]

I really hope the suicide bomb was real.

[Porkens]

For instance, what the heck is the case on Katsuki?

Katsuki was either not reading, or pretending not to read the super-short game when he posted and then came out of lurking when he had a 3-wagon on him going "WHY ME?!" That's where I'm at.

[Porkens]

You people are playing a different level of the game than I know how to.

[Porkens]

[Porkens]

I haven't carefully read the post-dayvig explosion, so these are fuzzy gut-reads but sure

ActionDan (0) - dunno
Tammy (0) - Townish?
Kagami (0) - meh
Seanald (0) - shit
Tierce (0) - 284 seems super scummy to me
Porkens (0) - town, obviously
LnGrrrR (0) - think he's playing like scum, focusing on little things like questioning his questions rather than gmae stuff
Plum (0) - can't read her
Katsuki (0) - not protown at all, very possibly scum
kanyeknowsbest (0) - im getting a scummy vibe.
MafiaSSK (0) - I go back and forth

[Porkens]

Plum (0) - can't read her

So why were you asking for a lifeline from her?

Because I trust her to make sense and explain to me what the fuck is going on when I need her to, regardless of her alignment.

[Porkens]

Wait, Fate's role was Dream, Tammy had a dream OMFG LYNCH!@!!!!!

(Kanye, am I doing it right?)

[Porkens]

still at work :p

[Porkens]

For instance, what the heck is the case on Katsuki?

Katsuki was either not reading, or pretending not to read the super-short game when he posted and then came out of lurking when he had a 3-wagon on him going "WHY ME?!" That's where I'm at.

and how is that scummy? I got called scum most recently in Faraday's upick because I didn't read the 125pages before I replaced in, nor the 20 pages that got posted while I was alive before I got shot. I was on 2 scumlynches before dying, all without reading the game (aside from getting a scumread on Spyspy from a 5min ISO skim).


TIME FOR AIRPLANE EVERYTHING ELSE GOTTA WAIT

This feels like bullshit to me. He's comparing a 3 page new game with a 145 page game he replaced into. He was obviously lurking (not not-reading) because he came right out when he finally had some heat on his ass.

[Porkens]

Work has exploded.

The people who are chattering a lot are fine for now

Lnnngrrr's posts seem luke-warm probing rather than edged scum-hunting.

I think I'm still fine with a Katsuki lynch, 'cause I haven't seen much use there.

[Porkens]

VOTE: Lynggggrr

[Porkens]

Unovte

LnGrrrR, I'm asking you as a fellow father, who would you lynch?



ANYWAY, NAh. Katsuki was buddying with scum.

Vote: Katsuki

lynch it.

[Porkens]

Why should he care about your vote being on him if you aren't willing to lynch him?

[Porkens]

VOTE: MafiaSSK



I mean, I'm assuming you are just going to jump off the wagon because you aren't willing to lynch anyone, right?

[Porkens]

VOTE: MafiaSSK



I mean, I'm assuming you are just going to jump off the wagon because you aren't willing to lynch anyone, right?

You missed the key words "right now".

I had all kinds of joke-ish troll responses for this (when will then be now, are we there yet, how about now, etc) but acutally, what the actually fuck are you saying? Are you willing to lynch MafiaSSK or not?

[Porkens]

makes sense

[Porkens]

We need to kill someone. I almost don't care who. Vote to lynch, please.

Since the mod hates me and doesn't like to count my votes:

Unvote.

Vote: MafiaSSK

[Porkens]

Ohh it's time for my piss-ant request about votes now…could you keep them chronological so we know the vote order?

[Porkens]

Why is SSK a good vote? Do we really think tierce-katsuki is town on town?

If it's not, then we're seriously going to lynch trying to hit one target among 8 suspects rather than 1 among 2? Even if we're going to vote people other than that pair, plum is much more suspect than SSK, and 480 means that plum scum => tierce & katsuki not scum, which has a nice informational component.

I really don't like 491, tierce. You're basically saying: Lynch me or SSK. I don't see a decent argument against SSK, and certainly not a better one than there is against plum or sean (except the LLD town list).

VOTE: Tierce

Why isn't he? The last two pages have been especially quivering

[Porkens]

[quote="In post 514, Kagami"]@Porkens

I just don't think the probability that both tierce and katsuki are town is high[quote]

Sorry, but can you explain/point to the explanation of why?

[Porkens]

@Porkens

I just don't think the probability that both tierce and katsuki are town is high

Sorry, but can you explain/point to the explanation of why?

[Porkens]

their interaction strongly implies that at most one of them is scum

This is the part I'd like explained further, if don't mind.

[Porkens]

I don't think they'd be powerbussing on day 1 given that one of their buddies is dead. A lone scum is so vulnerable to trackers, blockers, etc, that it would just be too much of a risk, imo, and almost certainly not worth the towncred.

By the same logic, though, why would either of them, as scum, get into that fight?

[Porkens]

Players needed to lynch: 6

Katsuki - 1 – Tierce, MafiaSSK, Kagami - (L-3)
MafiaSSK - 3 - Plum, Porkens, Tammy, LnGrrrR - (L-2)
Plum - 1 - ActionDan - (L-5)
Tierce - 2 -, kanyeknowsbest, Katsuki - (L-4)

Players not voting: Seanald

[Porkens]

I'm on the leading wagon, not sure what you are trying to say.

[Porkens]

Unvote, Vote: Katsuki

[Porkens]

I go to 11.

[Porkens]

Holy Aura: Plum

Nope.

[Porkens]

Sorry everyone for sucking so much here.

VOTE: Katsuki just in case I'm not dead or whatever?

You'll be fine see you tomorrow


Preview Edit: wow, pretty sweet AD.

[Porkens]

Vote: Katsuki

[Porkens]

Sorry, Plum.

Dan, you are so full of shit.

jesus

[Porkens]

LYNCH AGAIN BEFORE SCUM CAN ACTIONS

[Porkens]

Vote: SSK

POWER IT THROUGH NOWWWWW

[Porkens]

Gammagooey, good to see ya. Who can we lynch tonight?

Lyngggerrr to me was scummy for asking non-scum hunting mechanical dumb questions instead of scum hunting early in the game. Just recently he seemed like he was wagon hopping lynching whoeverthefuck. Which isn't…terrible I guess.

Was 687 a slip?

I really scum read Kanye's vote for SSK in the middle of a hot katsuki wagon.

Tammy is also scummy for her Plum/Katsuki false dichotomy.

sooo…yeah

[Porkens]

You were supposed to be asleep. Liar.

[Porkens]

It's not a buzzword, you said either one or the other was scum. BUT LETS NOT FIGHT ABOUT IT.

p.edit OH GOD SHE'S DOING IT AGAIN.

unvote; Vote: Tammy

[Porkens]

I mean, that basically confirms both of us as town right?

[Porkens]

I'll give you that. But I dislike your "either this one or that one is scum" method.

can we agree kanye is scummy?

[Porkens]

Sorry, I sincerely apologize, I was thinking of Kagumi.

[Porkens]

I have no fucking clue.

Unvote

Reset Scumreads

[Porkens]

My bad. Happy Scumday, goodnight!

[Porkens]

Kanye, why didn't you help with the Katsuki wagon?

[Porkens]

His ISO is pretty grimy

[Porkens]

What bout Kagumi?

[Porkens]

Why?

[Porkens]

I'm town, move on.

[Porkens]

Kagami, why wouldn't scum push for an unpopular wagon? Especially if it were bussing? Those seem like very likely scum things.


Deep thoughts, Jesus, that's kinda hard. Ok lemme ISP Kagami, because he's been prickling me the most recently.

[Porkens]

1. Lots of Kagami's posts, especially in the early morning, seemed to be fluff posting:

No, nooooo, don't get distracted. No RVS, we lunch tonight before the scum can get their night actions in. Lynch, now. Next post: vote actiondan

I got an issue with you not voting for a lynch on Instant Night, yeah.

Was this serious and am I missing something? I would think that with half the players necessary to make the lynch happen, the odds are only about 7% that no scum would see it to submit the kill (actually much lower since the "lynch wagon" was not in agreement with the first vote), whereas town would potentially lose PR actions. Even if that 7% happened, you can't say anything valuable like "everyone on the wagon was town" because of the possibility of a no-kill.

Does katsuki have experience with insta-night setups?

...

Katsuki, Fate called LLD an "it" deliberately, knowing that for LLD gender is an important issue. I'd really like to know how you think that not wanting to play with a Town player who does that is a low blow on my end. Even if he flips scum, that is a disgusting move, but one I can more or less understand in light of his win con. As Town? Fuck no. And no, I am deathly serious about that, and you only need to go to FWAN to realize that it's not a joke for me. I'm not taking advantage of it, I have a freaking moral code and I hate this is being brought into question. Personal attacks

are

against site rules.

Why is this not against code if he's scum? I would agree with your final statement regardless of his alignment.

2. And then there is the "scum is probably between these two people" business:

I'm town, move on.

If this is true, I think it more or less has to be kanye-tammy


Gamma's been hitting a lot of town notes for me since the replace in
I think ssk's 756+757 is legit; a brief meta-dive doesn't show ssk faking little townslips like this as scum
I agree with Tammy's reasoning on lnngrr, in addition to agreeing with the questions he's asked. It would be odd for scum to be pushing kanye when it was so clearly an unpopular wagon.

The Tierce kill is also a little odd. With both katsuki and plum flipping town, it wouldn't be too hard to pin suspicion on Tierce. The kill suggests that the killer was worried that her reads would change the game-state unfavorably, and/or was happy with the final state of her position. Could just be that they generally didn't want a strong player around, so idk.

VOTE: kanye

@Porkens

I just don't think the probability that both tierce and katsuki are town is high enough to justify another vote. If you assume that tierce vs katsuki is not town vs town, there are two populations of players with one scum in each:

population A: {tierce, katsuki} - 2 people
population B: {actiondan, porkens, kagami, plum, ssk, sean, kanye, tammy, lngrrr} - 9 people, one of whom is a mason

I'd much rather shoot among A than B. SSK hasn't exactly inspired my confidence, but neither has several people in B.

If they are town vs town, then my money would be on plum-scum over ssk scum anyway.

A lot of those empty votes are people who are reading the thread, though. There's no reason to limit the lynchpool so much.

[Porkens]

Your first point is sort-of true. I was legitimately mystified by what seems like an obviously terrible strategy, and it's subsequent defense by Tierce, but I concede that I did little to advance the game-state. The same argument could be made against every single person who is currently alive, though, excluding perhaps yourself.

Regarding your second point, the first quote is very different from the latter two.

In 768 I'm just laying out my two best scumspects and giving reasons why. I'm not saying we need to lynch them, and am looking for counterpoints, such as that which you provide in 771.

In 514, I am doing what you criticize, and was obviously wrong, but I don't see the real scum motivation in that relative to alternatives (most notably, letting deadline hit with lots of 2-man vanity wagons). 497 points out that {SSK, tierce} was neither a good, nor necessary lynchpool at that time, and it looked to me like she was forcing a decision between herself and SSK where she believed she had positional advantage. I still think ssk is town, and I was clearly correct that other lynches were viable given that we actually lynched katsuki.

Thank you for your thoughtful response.

I think the bolded part is close to the core of what rubs me the wrong way. You are laying suspicions but don't want to lynch them. Instead, you want people to talk you out of it. That's coasting/scummy to me.

[Porkens]

I'd be far less critical of a firm stance, I think.

[Porkens]

*sigh* I dunno :/

He isn't playing illogically or anything.

The switch from 499 (apologetic vote on Tierce, who he definitely didn't think was scum) to 511 (lurker<WTF?>) vote on Kats

probably

isn't town.

He admitted to giving opinions to avoid being lynched (rather than to actually help).
That's what I've got. I'd lynch him for the record.

[Porkens]

You are interacting rather than just saying what you think at any given moment.

[Porkens]

There's only one reason you would do that.

unvote

Vote: Gammagooey

[Porkens]

and the other thing

like if you had said 'herrderr you faking bastard' and voted you I would have still looked at you funny but only one reason i could do that? i'm pretty sure you're a way better damn player than to assume that in this situation.

Like I already said: Kagami isn't interacting, she's just reading and saying "I think this, I think that," all based on gamestate. while you are asking questions and interacting with people in a real way. It's not a lack of opinions, it's a type of action.

Anyway, I don't think you are scum

Unvote

Here's who I'd lynch, in order.

1. Kagami/MafiaSSK
2. LnGrrrrrR/Kanye
3. Tammy*/GammaGoey


p-edit: That is a really good post to point out tammy.

*super-duper paranoid scummy-senses

[Porkens]

Wait, I just had a thought…

Erase: MafiaSSK

[Porkens]

I was just testing to see if we could all cast that spell. It occured to me actiondan might have been joking and then it backfired because of a mechanic. It was an off chance thing, I didn't expect it to do anything really.


Kagumi makes a compelling case IMO

[Porkens]

Vote: Kanyeknowsbest

[Porkens]

822 jumps out

[Porkens]

lol no

[Porkens]

@SpyreX: could you not edit in VCs at the top of pages, please? They do nothing for the people who want to ISO you to see the flow of votes; it's better to have VCs less frequently if we at least know that they are part of your ISO.

Noted.

You want to know what is a damned serious vote?

UNVOTE: Katsuki
VOTE: Fate

Come out and play!

This is a very disappointing and surprising unvote. I think there is valid reason to have pressure on Katsuki. Why would you leap off like that?

This post? I stand by it.

[Porkens]

Gooey, what about my play makes you think I'm scum?

[Porkens]

Vote: MafiaSSK

Now we are all plural and shit.

[Porkens]

oshi

[Porkens]

Claims, I think. Kanye?

[Porkens]

and SSK, if you didn't yet.

[Porkens]

A bit less than 6 hours to deadline iinm.

I dunno, I just thought it was silly enough to be possible. I knew it didn't make sense with the flips but who knows this is powerful wizards.

[Porkens]

Fine, make it happen.

[Porkens]

@SSK, you would rather a no-lynch?

@Kagami, what momentum? If anything, more people have said SSK is town lately than before, and two votes isn't really momentum.

and this is the kind of post that makes me want to lynch Lyngggerrrrrr

[Porkens]

srsly can we get a omg scurry wagon on Lyngrrr? I'm in. that's 1.

[Porkens]

I'm not risking taking my vote off till i know its happening.

its that same "well what do you think of this but what about that and what about that" instead of taking stances and trying to make things happen.

Gamma could be "helpful scum" or whatever you call it when a scum tries to give honest reads.

[Porkens]

I'd say hammer now while we have people here

[Porkens]

oh, that's fine.

n/m

I like that move, actually, lynggrrr

[Porkens]

Hah, and look where it got me.

I'm still fine with lynching down my list

[Porkens]

In Zelda? I feel like compared to Zelda he is playing much more on the fence and "these are my reads live with them.

Jesus, with Kane I Just haven't seen anything very town telling.

[Porkens]

I really dislike the ammount of meta in this game, just saying.

I realized today though that I actually have a lot of power in this game. As town, I know that if I vote for town, they will get speedhammered. However, if I vote for scum, they wont. So I'm just going to think a while longer about who to vote for

[Porkens]

That's not exactly what I said :p

[Porkens]

So you admit I'm town then? Since you said if I vote town we lose. Great.

[Porkens]

So I can vote for whoever I want and you don't mind? I mean, if I'm scum then it won't be quick hammered. Right?

[Porkens]

Vote: Kanye

The game is mine to lose. Yolo. Sorry if I'm wrong.

[Porkens]

AHHHHH cold feed

unvote

[Porkens]

*feet

[Porkens]

maybe we could massclaim?

[Porkens]

I'm fine with going first or gamma can it doesn't matter to me.

[Porkens]

Phantasmal Killer, Vanilla (lol)

[Porkens]

^ Been waiting to reveal that all game.

for the lulz

Tammy

[Porkens]

Just wifoming the scum.

I'll read the thread again with fresh eyes.

[Porkens]

some list of Dungeons and Dragons spells online. google searched.

[Porkens]

I don't think so, but I guess in retrospect, That could have caused problems.

[Porkens]

I'm planning to reread the thread in the next 48 hours myself and put down a vote as well. I started again from the beginning and two things stuck out to me:

1. I think there were enough town players who posted first to make the quicklynch happen "doh."

2. Tammy's first post really feels like scum trying to put their best foot forward on day 1 in the midst of an active town.

[Porkens]

*I really didn't get far in my reread

[Porkens]

another test:

Phantasmal Kill: Tammy

[Porkens]

Oh wait no of course not. bah.

[Porkens]

The

hubris

of that gambit, jesus.

[Porkens]

Porkens, does that mean you think I am scum and Tammy is town?

If anything I think it suggests you are both scum :/

@tammy- i meant like what parts of the posts seemed fake or if you could explain it in more detail? like if it's just gut then there's not much you can say about it I know but if you can it'd be nice to know what parts you didn't think kats would be saying as town and etc etc. I will double check to make sure you didn't already do that too after I post this I guess but I don't thinkk you ever did.

The Porkens' ability attempts I feel like are not worth really considering for his alignment? like if you think he'd be slightly more likely to do it as town or scum then sure but I can see him doing it as either alignment and I think Porkens has more relevant stuff that he's done and his play is still weird and in a vacuum i'd still say he'd be more likely scum than town but compared to tammy and kanye i just don't have a solid opinion.

while i'm going through stuff porkens why DID you think that I couldn't be town with my vote on you earlier?

I wouldn't take towncread for the fake save. It was just functional wifoming the scum.

That was mostly just shit talking, but other than my posts feeling "weird" to you, I see no reason for you to suspect me over anyone else. sooooo if you push me as scum you must in fact be scum

I wish I had just one person I could trust a bit, but no…I don't really.

Tammy seems to be stalling. Lyngrr is kiiinda trying to make stuff happen. Gamma is trying to do a little here and there. Kanye is…I dunno.

SHIT I really just wanna throw a vote down. Can someone please make some great breakthrough?

[Porkens]

Kanye has never been on the same wagon as Tammy or Lngrrr.

Lnger and Tammy have been on a wagon together.

Lnger has voted for Kanye.

Lnger has never voted for Tammy.

Tammy has never voted for Kanye or Lnger.

Kanye has never voted for Tammy or Lngr.

Kanye has never been on a realistic wagon.

kanye is avoiding wagons?

crackabooooom

Vote Kanye

[Porkens]

AHHHHHH

unvote

[Porkens]

hi gamma. you scum? :/

[Porkens]

Gamma.

Do you think Tammy's post feel artificial? How about her intro post? And these posts lately about being so lost?

[Porkens]

Kanye seems to have been avoiding wagons all day. thoughts?

[Porkens]

For real, if you have a case, state it and vote. But don't just throw something down.

[Porkens]

Kanye, your wagons never had any hope of going anywhere. You were essentially parking your vote and watching mislynches happen.

Asking for support on an alternate wagon so close to deadline is much better than jumping off and risking a no lynch in my opinion.

I'm talking to gamma like this trying to get some grasp on the game. It hasn't done much for me, unfortunately.

oh ok that's good to know. it either never made a vote count or i missed it.

So Tammy Kanye maybe

[Porkens]

Why do we all have to be so god damn scummy. This isn't going to end well.

[Porkens]

How mad are people going to be after I vote Kanye and scum quciklynch? Like, does no one care maybe?

[Porkens]

Ok. I'll be mad if you are

BOTH SCUM

though. Just fyi.

Vote: Kanye

[Porkens]

does day talk allow you to text her?

[Porkens]

As noted earlier, I didn't like Porkens trying to start a wagon against me without voting me post 959. His justification was that he didn't want to risk taking his vote off... but isn't he asking others to risk taking their votes off instead?

Then in 1006, he noted that I am playing differently than I was in Zelda as scum (which isn't slam dunk since that game was multiball, but still) but that difference in playstyle seemingly has no view on his read of me.

This was in a response to a question I think TAmmy asked, btw.

[Porkens]

also im here too and also not hammering assuming that i'm not bad at timestamps?

although that wouldn't mean a whole lot anyway since im leaving again in a few minutes to say goodbye to the last people leaving the reckoning

but yep

porkens/kanye do you have any opinions on the nightkills I guess? its not much of a question but i dont really have much to say here right now

I was thinking about this last night, actually. I don't have a clearly formed theory, but my thoughts go something like this. I think Kagami was a strange choice for night kill. I haven't looked back to see who FOS'd Kagami or had scummy feelings for her, but it seems to me she was one of the more scummy/suspected players at that point. So killing her likely came through a PoE. I think that one of scum is being regarded as towny, so they had to pick off a scummier player. Of course, that's all wifom, too.

i'm only posting here to say look at us posting at the same time and not hammering.

This is very encouraging to me.

Porkens, it was, but my point was that you noted a difference but it didn't seem to change your read of me in any fashion.

It doesn't, really.

porkens/kanye do you have any opinions on the nightkills I guess? its not much of a question but i dont really have much to say here right now

do you expect any answer from this that wouldnt be dripping in wifom? certainly i have my opinions but theyre not going to mean a whole lot

Afraid to reveal something by speculating?

also i'm worrying that kanye doesn't sound like he's trying to figure the game out. I worry that he's bringing up the weird gamma/porkens interaction to fuel that.

i dont understand what you mean by this

Maybe refer to some posts that you think demonstrate that you are trying to figure the game out?

[Porkens]

Well, at least I know I was right about Kanye, no matter what else.

I'm thinking about finding the other scum now...

[Porkens]

I'm still a bit worried about tierce from yesterday but I'm going to ignore it *for now* >_< and accept paranoia might just be paranoia and wait and see.

I'm also just going to accept as town those who were on lld's town list *for now*

I also think kagami might be town based on trying to narrow down who the masons were, which was bad but she's new so probs doesn't know any better and probably would be a little more careful as scum?

So somewhere between ssk, longer, plum and porkens.

Why are you just going to accept LLD's town list as town?

Do I really need to explain that? LLD flipped mason meaning one of her partners is in those town reads. Besides me leaning town on kanye anyway, I don't really have a read on seanald or dan, though have a slight town read on seanald. I don't think it's productive to crack that box today.

when did you form this town read on kanye?

[Porkens]

I'm super paranoid that this back and forth between Kanye and Tammy is masterfully artful.

Lyngrrr not voting Kanye yet disturbs me, but I'm leaning town there.

Gamma is a slight scum read for me. Wait, who didn't want that slot modkilled? Tierce oh well. and it wasn't even about modkilling I think.

Right now I think the partner is Gamma. I'm worried it's Tammy. I don't think it's Lyngrrr.

[Porkens]

I don't know that my reads have trajectories. Right now I feel that LnGrrR is being quite genuine. I liked his ISP 78 and 79.

After reading through his ISP I don't see him as a buddy to Kane, but I don't remember which posts they were.

[Porkens]

To be perfectly honest, I'm having a hard time following your line of questioning, so I may not be answering your question exactly.

I really thought Kane was scum. But I was afraid that I was getting taken in by you and lyngrrr. so I threw down my vote with the understanding that it could have been the end of the game. But it wasn't.

lyngrrr thinking you are town or scum is irrelevant to me, because I'm looking for connections between Kane and someone else.

When lyngrrr was joking around with his posts, that seemed genuine to me. I know Kane is scum, and I don't think lyngrrr is his partner. You also have genuine seeming interactions with Kane. So, PoE points to gamma.


If I get lynched today, it super doesn't matter. (other than for my ego). If you all help me lynch Kane, scum are going to do what they do but in any case I'm not gunna be dead.

Look at it this way, you can either lynch Kane today and be stuck with me alive tomorrow in a probably 4-man lylo, or you can lynch me today and end the game now. If you think you are going to lynch me tomorrow, then just lynch me today and save us the time.

If I were more confident in the partner read I would throw down another vote right now, but I'm still not as sure as I was about Kane.


Ps sorry my iPad doesn't know who Kanyeknowsbest is.

[Porkens]

also, porkens, why would you even consider moving your vote, if you're convinced that kanye is scum?

Because if I vote for someone, and they aren't hammered, then it proves to me they are scum. I've already caught Kanye, so why not catch the partner, too?

[Porkens]

why aren't you paranoid about a lnnggrrr/gamma pairing due to them not exactly posting at the same time? This doesn't really fit with your paranoid play style you've been trying to affect this day phase.

There are no posts like this between gamma and lnnnggrrr:

Tammy, I'm not voting for you, toDay, so I think it's between us two to figure out who to vote. Do you think gamma or Porkens is likely more scum?

The

hubris

of that gambit, jesus.

So both of us think the other are town, but neither of us know who to vote between Kanye, Gamma and Porkens. If we are right on each other, that gives us a 66% chance of nailing scum.

Right now I'm leaning towards Gamma, and then possibly Porkens. Porkens didn't really push any lynch, and his vote hopped around quite a bit. I'm not super familiar with anyone's meta here though, so that might be townPorkens.

[Porkens]

I didn't post because I was asleep. Just posting now to let you know I will be here before the deadline.

I know you have a job and kids and stuff, but this looks like stalling.

[Porkens]

also, porkens, why would you even consider moving your vote, if you're convinced that kanye is scum?

Because if I vote for someone, and they aren't hammered, then it proves to me they are scum. I've already caught Kanye, so why not catch the partner, too?

That really doesn't make sense outside of illogical gambits. And if you are so sure you've caught kanye why don't you sound convinced on the matter?

Huh? From my point of view, if Kanye were town, the remaining scum would have hammered and the game would be over. Because of that, I am totally convinced Kanye is 100% scum. I can use the exact same process to find Kanye's partner. What part of that is an illogical gambit?

[Porkens]

If you lynch me today, game's over.

If we lynch Kanye, I'll be alive tomorrow to have to find the partner anyway.

FMPOV there is no difference in trying to find the partner today or tomorrow.

[Porkens]

And porkens what doesn't make sense to me is the lack of concern what a vote on you will do to the game. There's no real attempt to convince us it's kanye and not you. You are looking to tomorrow which makes no sense if you're town here when at least two of us have said you are our biggest concern for scum. You're like let's see if I can find his partner, instead of going kanye is definite scum let me show you why.

Pedit sigh.

I've got to run to the store and make dinner but I'll be back in abit.

The hard evidence I have of Kanye as scum is only evidence to me, since you all don't know if I'm town or not.

[Porkens]

lol, scum ain't killing tonight.

[Porkens]

I don't think I'm going to be lynched, honestly.

Why is Kanye convinced I'm scum?

If I'm scum, who is my partner?

If Kanye is scum, who is his partner?

[Porkens]

Can cross it up and elect a hammer?


1. Gamma - vote either
2. Lngrrrr - vote the otherrrrr
3. Tammy - Hammy?

[Porkens]

BTW that plan also solves the game.

[Porkens]

^ Never mind, thinking from only my POV again.

[Porkens]

it would clear lngrr and tammy tho

[Porkens]

So switch Lyngggrr and you in the plan.

[Porkens]

(PS I just giggled at the idea of Kanye being town and the 2 scum just not being able to get on the same page with votes)

[Porkens]

We all need to be as together on this as possible. If scum doesn't vote next, it's game over for sure. So you guys need to figure out between the three of you who will vote next.

[Porkens]

God I'm sorry for all the multi posting. I guess it's not game over "for sure" but you guys still need to make the scummiest person vote next, and give the hammer to the towniest. Are either of you giving GAMMA the hammer? Probably not. Gamma votes, the other person balances it out, and the last hammers.

[Porkens]

uh porkens

you realize that plan only works if im scum right

if lngrr is scum and i vote wrong he hammers
if tammy is scum regardless of anything she hammers

How else is it going to happen? One of you needs to vote first. I think it should be you. Wifom that as much as you want.

I realize it doesn't break the game, but it is what you need to be focusing on.

its guaranteed that one of us are scum and suppose that were both scum and scum are playing slow ball and delaying things needlessly: were still entirely fucked because im not moving my vote and porkens, despite all the retarded shit hes saying about moving his vote isnt going to move his vote either.

You temptress, you.

anyw ays im pretty 100% confident that tammy is not porkens partner. i think it would be way too easy for her to play up her paranoia of me here and force the lynch onto me. im still leaning gamma over linger for partner but i still need 2 check linger interactions w. him

Great, then who do you WANT to vote first?

We all need to be as together on this as possible. If scum doesn't vote next, it's game over for sure. So you guys need to figure out between the three of you who will vote next.

please do tell how this works.

I already fixed that, thanks for reading the thread.

[Porkens]

porkens i come back to thinking that you're a better player than what you've shown in this game over and over again

assuming that you're town why am i wrong

I'm not sure what you mean exactly, but I'll try to explain myself for the record.

In the beginning of the game, I wanted a quicklynch. Looking back at who was posting, I think it would have worked if everyone had gotten on bored instead of fucking around in RVS. Then it degraded into meta and I was lost.

So much meta and insider knowledge based on the scummies invitational, which I only read the after-math pissyness of (sounded like a terrible not fun game to me). I was unable to participate in that

nonsense

so I reached out to someone I knew would stay on a ground level with me: Plum.

Then Fate and madness and I don't know what the fuck. I had a strong scumread on Katsuki and Kagami and I was wrong on both counts.

Then we move into this lylo and I'm hemming and hawing on everyone but if I'm honest with myself and just go with my instincs Kanye seems scummiest because he's posting but not doing much.

Then I look at his vote history and boom he is avoiding wagons. Finally ball up and vote him and he isn't quickhammered awesome scum caught.

I'm getting some confidence back and go back to the mode I was in at the beginning of the game: enthusiastic and freeflowing, trying to make a plan, interract with people, make the game go well.

Now we are here.

[Porkens]

I do think the gamma/porkens conversation today looked like them floating the possibility of voting me/seeing if one other person would be interested in it, which looks partnerish.

Gamma, vote for me.

[Porkens]

Plum
Porkens
Mafiassk
Tierce
Katsuki
Kagami
Lady

is enough to lynch


I think Tammy is town.

I'm again going back and forth on Lyngrrr. I just looked at the front page and his first vote is on Kanye grrr.

[Porkens]

Ahhh that is unfortunate. I didn't notice that. I forgot dan was the other sui.

[Porkens]

the fuck is this game

do you really think tammy is that town

or that i'm that scummy that it's not even a risk worth worrying about that lngrr will just come and hammer

just how or why do you think that's a good idea

Sooo you aren't going to vote me? You don't want me lynched? You may be town afterall.

[Porkens]

if that's the case don't vote me

[Porkens]

I think the order matters because of this:

None of Tammy, Lynggrrr, and Gamma are voting because they are either afraid one of the others is scum and will hammer if they vote wrong or they are scum and waiting for a misvote. One way or the other, TWO of them are going to have to reach an agreement about who to vote for. So they need to push out the one they think is the scummiest.

N

[Porkens]

I've got to vanish for a while

Invisibility: Porkens

[Porkens]

Well, now let's just see.


As for 11th hour; I can't say much about it. I played how I played there and I'm playing how I am playing here. Maybe look at a more recent game like that great idea mini i was in?

I knew I was right about Tammy. That's something anyway.

Whether you agree with what I've been doing the last few pages or not, at least I'm doing something. Kanye hasn't done anything constructive. Also look at his vote. he voted back at me

without the slightest hesitation or worry

that he was setting up for a quick hammer.

[Porkens]

i dont even know why it was because if you quickhammered id be just bewildered at porkens play

whats this mean? sorry.

[Porkens]

if you are fucking town please unvote before lyngrr comes in and kills it.

That post with the smilies is exactly how I've felt this game.

That game was also 5 years, a wife, a kid, and two moves across the country ago.

[Porkens]

I'm also taken a little aback with LnGrrrR's sudden support of me. I'm forced to wonder if he is the partner using reverse psychology.

That uvote/vote in the same minute is astonishing.

Gamma, please don't revote unless you come to an agreement with Tammy first.

I was more involved in Zelda and I got fucking lynched day 2 (still grumpy about it).

[Porkens]

Unless I'm mistaken, Lyngrr wasn't on when there were two votes on me. He is now tho, so I guess we will see.

[Porkens]

That could all have been typed in after previewing. He could have missed his window by seconds.

[Porkens]

What does that tell you?

There's also really no reason for scum Gamma to unvote.

[Porkens]

It's a distinct possibility. Kanye and Lyngrr just started bussing each other really aggressively.

Like I said:

I'm also taken a little aback with LnGrrrR's sudden support of me. I'm forced to wonder if he is the partner using reverse psychology.

[Porkens]

powerful wizards according to porkens right now:

gamma scum had no reason to unvote, so town.
tammy could have voted either, didn't so town.
cross voting with kanye so kanye must be scum.
one choice for the other scum porkens.

Yes, right, it's lyngrr. Do we have our wires crossed or something?

[Porkens]

Where?

[Porkens]

Kanye saying I have to see Gamma as scum and Lyngrrr as town:

I'm also taken a little aback with LnGrrrR's sudden support of me. I'm forced to wonder if he is the partner using reverse psychology.

That uvote/vote in the same minute is astonishing.

Gamma, please don't revote unless you come to an agreement with Tammy first.

I was more involved in Zelda and I got fucking lynched day 2 (still grumpy about it).

this is awful. kid had more than enough time to hammer you he should be confirmed town and gamma confirmed scum from your perspective if you were town

Me saying that Lyngrr wasn't around to hammer in time, so he can still be scum to me:

Unless I'm mistaken, Lyngrr wasn't on when there were two votes on me. He is now tho, so I guess we will see.

Kanye saying he didn't hammer cause he had time enough to type out a long post:

he had a sizable post typed up with a vote on me at the same minute that gamma unvoted . . . ?

Me saying that he could have typed that post-missing his chance to hammer me.

That could all have been typed in after previewing. He could have missed his window by seconds.

So for me, yeah, Lyngrr can be scum. For this sudden bussing and gamma's unvote, I think lyngrr is actually more likely to be scyn

[Porkens]

porkens position is just completely unviable as town.

No, it isn't. Explain.

[Porkens]

Kanye, would you vote Lyngrr ?

[Porkens]

K, avoid my questions.

[Porkens]

OK, you said Lyngrr could have hammered. Why didn't he if he's town?

[Porkens]

uhhh
ok, well there aren't two scum on the same team then.

[Porkens]

Tammy, very quickly: it was very analytical and extemporaneous of the moment it was posted. It felt like you were trying to comment on the whole game rather than taking sides on what was happening at that moment.

[Porkens]

I DONT FUCKING KNOW.

Yeah, two teams, an SK, I don't know. I don't know what to do right now...

[Porkens]

I don't see how. My whole case is based on the lack of a hammer on you. If scum are working together there is no reason for me to still be alive.

[Porkens]

So yeah, all bets are off. Unless you are a lover with one of the scum? Do people know they are lovers?

[Porkens]

Oh, wait, no fuck of course. GAMMA is the other vote on me, DUH

There's no one left to hammer. I'm retorted. AS YOU WERE. Kanye/Gama

[Porkens]

Man, I'm sorry I don't know why I got all confused.

Hammer Kanye, Tammy

[Porkens]

I misspoke. I didn't literally mean my whole case. I didn't realize that Gamma was the other vote on me, and suddenly I thought the other scum wasn't hammering.

I've thought he was scummy for the whole basically because of his ignorance of the important wagons and the fact that he doesn't really work with people to try to figure anything out or make the game progress. I may be wrong, but at least I'm trying to do stuff.

[Porkens]

There's the point that he was absent for the entire daykill scene, I don't know if it's ~his meta~ to act like he doesn't give a shit and anyone who disagrees with him is a retorted shitheat, but that's the impression I've gotten and to me that's actually scummy but ~my meta~ whatever.

I've been trying to reach out to people through at least a couple stages of the game and trying my best not to hold anything back.

[Porkens]

I've got my reaction gifs all set up

[Porkens]

Gamma you are doing an admirable job in my opinion.

[Porkens]

http://media0.giphy.com/media/76dXlFZZEqNH2/200_s.gif

[Porkens]

Think about it this way: Risk Versus reward:

If you lynch Kanye, and he is scum (50%), you HAVE his partner; Gamma.

If you lynch me, and I'm scum (50%), you don't have my partner.

So you either take a 50% chance of loss / 50% chance of catching both scum…
or you take a 50% chance of loss / 50% chance of catching one scum.

[Porkens]

Actually yeah, you are right. Lyngrr and I have to be on the same team. muh bad

[Porkens]

[Porkens]

Go read swift werewolves I think it was my first game and see why i love quicklynches.

I didn't care who got quicklynched, I almost voted for myself to make it happen faster.

I just picked Dan because reasons.

[Porkens]

I also love how you are meta-ing the shit out of me but not Kanye at all.

[Porkens]

inb4 Tammy/Lyngggrr are just slow rolling it

forthe lull

[Porkens]

What part doesn't make sense?

[Porkens]

God, is it really better to lose to those you know are scum than to vote the way you actually think you should?

God damn, TRUST YOURSELF!



I claim MORAL VICTORY for being right.

[Porkens]

don't troll tammy like that

bad kanye

tammy i'm still town

Wait, like, for real?!

[Porkens]

I'm totally fucking confused again then.

Oh shit I forgot:

Holy Aura: Porkens

[Porkens]

I can't tell who is trolling who. If I flip scum, something happened, because I am towny town town.

[Porkens]

Ah fuck I forgot about that.

Ok, though you guys need to start planning for when I flip town. What will you do?

[Porkens]

but we seriously need to get over your paranoia. i was terrified to say much of anything to you since i was pretty sure any attempts at convincing you of porkens scum would have resulted in you feeling like i was manipulating you. this was a painful lylo

Do you realize that this is manipulation, as well?

[Porkens]

Ok, jesus, let's see. Assuming the game is still going tomorrow:

Tammy = Town (unless she is the queen of faking it)

Lyngrr goes BACK on my scum list for being so committal (like he knew the game wouldn't end)

Gamma is probably town again…mostly gut.

I'm still reading Kanye as scum for the way he played in this "lylo"

[Porkens]

Ok, jesus, let's see. Assuming the game is still going tomorrow:

Tammy = Town (unless she is the queen of faking it)

Lyngrr goes BACK on my scum list for being so committal (like he knew the game wouldn't end)

Gamma is probably town again…mostly gut

and PoE

.

I'm still reading Kanye as scum for the way he played in this "lylo"

fixed

[Porkens]

I should just persue the opposite of my actual beliefs since my play is so shitty that I convince town not to lynch scum.