Mini 1566: Lunar Silver Star Story Complete (Game Over)

[Mac]

YOU STOLE MY FIRST.

VOTE: SANGRES

This is the game you almost beat Sangres.




To the thread.

This is a Pirates of the Caribbean reference, right? If it isn't, you will break my little heart into pieces.

[Mac]

<3

[Mac]

Yes.

UNVOTE: Aegor touche.

Why did this warrant an unvote?

[Mac]

Yes.

UNVOTE: Aegor touche.

Why did this warrant an unvote?

A few reasons, one I can't apply any more pressure than a vote and it didn't work so I backed off, I will be less likely to do this latter in the game but as of now it would probably have been a waste of time. I've played with people like him before and his lack of actual wording or explanation is not in the slightest a scum/town tell for those players. Also since the unvote I have actually started to lean a town feel for Aegor.

You could probe a bit beneath the surface with some questioning, rather than just throwing a vote down and unvoting after what is a pretty underwhelming response?

I wanna hear more from Jakeg

Spoiler:

This deserves far more credit than it is getting. Well played

That's my point, it may look super tempting, but it really means nothing from Jake therefore making ActionDan's vote opportunistic.

Is it still opportunistic if AD has never played with Jake before?

[Mac]

No vote, no discussion of game, and no explanation of lateness. That is tempting.
On the other hand I've played with Jake before and I'm more than willing to wait for an actual post and let this slide.

If you've played with Jake before, wouldn't you know that's his opening post in just about every game? (In fact, I'm fairly certain he mentioned it was his opening post every time...) In which case, why is it tempting?

Any thoughts on the game so far AJ?

[Mac]

AD has played with me twice

Does that change things ?

No, it doesn't.

[Mac]

fferycho when you're done with Jake I have a question!

[Mac]

I just wondered the reasoning behind this question?

Why did it take you so long to come up with that response?

[Mac]

It's also an easy enough way to increase pressure. I didn't really get anything useful out of our interaction, as was expected.

I see. I didn't particularly feel like it was an insightful question since anything could happen in the time between two posts. But I understand the motives.

Do you think Jake's lack of a reaction towards this pressure, other than "no", is telling?

[Mac]

Yes.

UNVOTE: Aegor touche.

Why did this warrant an unvote?

A few reasons, one I can't apply any more pressure than a vote and it didn't work so I backed off, I will be less likely to do this latter in the game but as of now it would probably have been a waste of time. I've played with people like him before and his lack of actual wording or explanation is not in the slightest a scum/town tell for those players. Also since the unvote I have actually started to lean a town feel for Aegor.

You could probe a bit beneath the surface with some questioning, rather than just throwing a vote down and unvoting after what is a pretty underwhelming response?

Well if I'm reading his play correctly questioning more really wouldn't have goten me anywhere, I've played with simillier play styles before. So I'm fairly confidint I did the right thing.

I wanna hear more from Jakeg

Spoiler:

This deserves far more credit than it is getting. Well played

Agrred

That's my point, it may look super tempting, but it really means nothing from Jake therefore making ActionDan's vote opportunistic.

Is it still opportunistic if AD has never played with Jake before?

No it doesn't because the way it was presented. It was a naked vote, as scum it would of allowed him the opportunity for people to start piling votes without knowing it is normal play style, but since it lacks explanation he has the ability to play it off like he didn't vote for that reason (or it was a joke) if Jake called him out on it and provided evidence.

Without him knowing Jake it's just a plain opportunistic joke but the extra safety from it being naked doesn't really apply

Does that make sense?

Also bolded parts are mine.

Yep it does. Why would people starting piling votes on Jake though?

[Mac]

COMMENCING COUNTDOWN... ENGINES ON

[Mac]

Yep it does. Why would people starting piling votes on Jake though?

I meant it was still opportunistic by the way. I think I got the language screwed up in the first sentence.

I think it could get people to pile votes because it was early, and people like to wagon early, also it could seem like a legitimate vote at first glance. Hence me say "tempting" which still seems to be lost on people.

Why are early wagons bad, doctor?

[Mac]

Policy lynches are terrible and you should feel fucking awful for bringing it up.

But Jake's replace out comments are sending shivers up my spine.

Anyway I have like three pages to read in more detail, and a couple of other games. I'll return soon enough because MY SATURDAY NIGHTS ARE SO DAMN AWESOME THAT FOR ONCE I'M NOT EVEN TOUCHING ALCOHOL!!!!

[Mac]

AD has played with me twice

Does that change things ?

No, it doesn't.

wat.

VOTE: Mac for now.

Such a wide variety of responses I could use. I'm going with

lol wut?

[Mac]

Your line of reasoning there was illogical.

Well, no it wasn't. Jake stepped in my line of questioning. :fferyimpression: It didn't matter whether Dan had played with Jake or not, the question still stood.

[Mac]

Yep it does. Why would people starting piling votes on Jake though?

I meant it was still opportunistic by the way. I think I got the language screwed up in the first sentence.

I think it could get people to pile votes because it was early, and people like to wagon early, also it could seem like a legitimate vote at first glance. Hence me say "tempting" which still seems to be lost on people.

Why are early wagons bad, doctor?

They aren't I didn't say they were. What I was saying was that that naked vote could of easily lead to a wagon and been very beneficial to scum. I would appreciate more votes on ActionDan right about now guys.

Are early wagons beneficial to scum? Wagon town > probably won't go through, alignment might become obvious. Wagon scum > ???

By attacking Dan's "opportunism," you are implying early wagons are bad. I don't understand why town would want to stifle a wagon, especially when it has just the one vote?

[Mac]

SMP is scum. And yes, I'm being completely serious.

I hope by the time I reach 12 you have a post that contains more content that SMP is scum. Perhaps more reads, or an explanation why?

[Mac]

My typing is suffering from fatigue, forgive me friends!

[Mac]

Is it still opportunistic if AD has never played with Jake before?

AD has played with me twice

Does that change things ?

Not sure if "opportunistic" is the right term, but AD voting for someone for doing something that they always do, and that AD should be aware of them always doing, is worth noting. The context of AD having played with Jake does change things, and you brushing it off like it doesn't is a bizarre line of reasoning.

But I'm not brushing it off like it doesn't exist, I'm talking about it regardless. It didn't have to be Dan, it could been you, me or any player. Perhaps it's the wording.

[Mac]

DrScar, you called AD opportunistic voting Jake - why have you ignored the fact that Aegor and Jake were trying to policy lynch HKC, and in particular the fact that Jake is parking his vote there in an effort to be as anti-town as possible?

[Mac]

Vote: HighShroomish

I'm probing in this direction because I want more game content from this slot. Right now, his ISO is all about SMP and ranting about walls.

[Mac]

DrScar, you called AD opportunistic voting Jake - why have you ignored the fact that Aegor and Jake were trying to policy lynch HKC, and in particular the fact that Jake is parking his vote there in an effort to be as anti-town as possible?

1. The policy lynch was just a personal play style discussion and would of turned up nothing.
2. That is Jake being Jake, also I've had my vote parked up until two posts ago.

1. It's still opportunistic though, am I right? It's an effort to look like they're doing something when they are really not.

2. Yep, but your vote wasn't parked in an anti-town manner, like Jake's is.

[Mac]

@Mac if something has already been said, why say it again(i.e. Why the votes on PhD)

That's the only thing you have to say about this entire game, other than SMP/walls?

Every Jake post is making my eyes bleed, I'm not sure if it's scum or derptown though. I think I'm leaning the former, but I'm not overly familiar with his playstyle.

Yet I'm not attacking both hydras so obviously not letting my hydra hate influence me...

The other hydra is playing like they should. They aren't creating confusion in the game thread.

That's probably because there's just one head talking at the minute.

For example this did make me think of HKC as town. It just seemed so genuine at the time, but thinking about what Jake is saying I understand how any moderately good Hydra could plan and stage this.

The thing that bugs me here is that whilst Bert is a good mafia player, he's pretty laidback and I can't imagine him doing much planning as town, possibly not even as scum, although I can't quite back that statement up. Similarly, Mara is very emotional as a player and whilst I think they're a good enough combo as a hydra, I can't see them staging this dissonance. Like at all.

VOTE: Jake from State Farm

Dramatic. What made you turn? Because I'm starting to fall that way too. But I still don't particularly like Shroomish.

Here, but nothing to add.

I like HKC less and less, if such is possible.

You have absolutely nothing to add over the last 3 pages?

Real hydra dissonance with a town hydra IMO would do their best to hash it out behind the scenes in their QT and would include explanations for why they disagree with each other's reads

I disagree. I think laying out thought process from both heads is a solid town tactic and shows they're not afraid of hiding their opinions at all. Being so blatantly dissonant, whilst it might not be your cup of tea, shows very little "behind the scenes" planning and I feel this is coming from a town mindset, rather than scum manipulation.

It's a bit strange that you're trying to stifle HKC like so.

[Mac]

Oh 2 more things @ max

1. I'm sorry that answering others people's questions are making your eyes bleed. Should A. People stop asking me questions or B. Should I stop answering them?

I think it's the way you're answering questions.

2. You have played with me at least 3 or 4 times and you aren't familiar with my playstyle?

Ha, you'd think, wouldn't you? And yet early on you were talking about a new playstyle, which I believe I played with once in that neighborhood game where I died night one

[Mac]

Waiting on Aegor's reasoning for following Jake like a lost puppy

Didn't even notice aegor changed his vote

Also this felt weird as fuck.

[Mac]

fferycho is now a solid town read. And I'm starting to lean town on HS too.

unvote

[Mac]

What would you make of it? Following a scum buddy seems to obvious, though Aegor doesn't seem like an experienced player. However, if it were my buddy, I'd probably just vote for him and drop him as a worthless partner.

Also Mac, can you explain how HC is town? To me, I don't mind Mara when she posts but the other hydra head is not helping their cause.

I don't really know what to make of it. I've played with Aegor a couple of times now and modded a game of his and I recall him being more logical rather than just throwing votes around. But he was scum in my modded game, so what I'm seeing is a stark contrast to both his usual selves.

HKC is not a strong town read, but it's not a case of whether you mind them or not - but I assume you're talking about finding Mara town and not Bert? To put it bluntly - Bert is Bert. He's a bit of a troll but a solid asset if town. But as scum (I might be wrong here because I'm going off something I read a while back from someone) I'm almost sure he's more manipulative. If I'm wrong, anyone can feel free to correct me. But that manipulation is something I'm not seeing in this game, and the blatant dissonance is bound to attract some attention. I don't think it's coming from a scum hydra.

fferycho is now a solid town read. And I'm starting to lean town on HS too.

unvote

I'm a little surprised you're solidly townreading us but yay. Agree on highshroomish.

I have independent reasons for thinking that both Jake and Aegor look scummy, but I'm having a little trouble picturing them as part of a team. :/

SMP is becoming a pretty distinct concern.

catboi's paraphrased fuckit-i'll-post-tomorrow gave me some town flickers, though!

It's been coming. SMP is a concern but I'm not barking up that tree yet because there's very little point. I think AJ is starting to come into a very town read, but I recall having a similarish read in Xenogears and being wrong. My memory's a bit hazy, so I might double check that.

Mac is being too cautious and he seems to be mirroring both sets of hydras when he does post, it's obvious he's easily swayed but doing it in a not so obvious manner

I can't make head nor tail of this. Care to expand a little further?

AND he's active lurking which is a scumtell.

It is most certainly not. Town lurk too, believe it or not!

Well I can't go off some mysterious site. I can go off his play here and in 3 games as town he's played 1 way.

Now he's playing differently AND he's active lurking which is a scumtell.

Read that again and show me where I asked for or cared about the other site.

He didn't even give me a website or anything. No game links nothing. The burden of proof is on him. I've done my detective work.

These two statements contradict each other.

My head tells me you're scum pushing the everliving fuck out of a goldmine you've found in SMP games, Jake, because it looks from the above you didn't want to delve any deeper than you had to and possibly ruin your argument. On the other hand, it's a legitmate enough argument that makes me consider SMP-scum.

I'd like to hear something from SMP at least, because I'm well aware that town lurk too, regardless of their activity in other games on and off site.

[Mac]

holy fuck Jake, I can't be done with this fucking whining because we're not tripping over ourselves to lynch YOUR scumreads as opposed to our own. I mean I didn't say you were scum at all for contradicting yourself, just pointing out a fucking fact there, and you're putting words in my mouth for me.

I'll vote in my own time and for my own reasons rather than yours. Don't want to be swayed too easily, you know?

[Mac]

God this game is sucking the life out of me.

[Mac]

Jake, do you have any townreads?

[Mac]

Are you scumreading everyone else?

[Mac]

Are you scumreading everyone else?

[Mac]

Vote: Jake

[Mac]

if you don't want a 40 page day one, don't fucking post 168 times?

[Mac]

hey mac.

so, is your vote out of frustration/anger? or is there something legit that you see that i don't?

Hi anti!

in spite of whatever the fuck jake says, my vote isn't cause I'm hanging off the hydras (lol, he has a weird obsession there but apparently working with a townread is NOT allowed anymore) but it's his lack of fucking townreads that worries me. He's tunnelfucking SMP/HKC while taking awild sideswipe at anything that moves and by not having any townreads, other than someone that nobody really knows, he's showing a lack of commitment so he can probably go change his mind later on when one of his "scumreads" flips town.

no idea if this makes sense, it's late.

[Mac]

I'm showing a lack of commitment? Ha ha that's rich. And I almost always have trouble getting town reads

Is it really rich?

The latter doesn't surprise me because town generally work together and I can tell you don't do that very well.

[Mac]

Btw mafia isn't about finding town. It's about finding scum. I don't need town reads. I need scum reads and only need scum reads

ha ha. Ffery, you can take this one.

[Mac]

Given the playerlist, scum are probably 2/3 in the group with fewer posts than me.

I don't understand this, other than the fact I find it particularly ridiculous?

That's it for now, I'll be back tonight or tomorrow to catch up

[Mac]

Oh shit we have less than 24 hours.

VOTE: MAC

less than 24 hours to go so you try to start a new wagon on me who you have pretty much called town and shown no change in that read?

[Mac]

Vote: Shroomish

I'm going back here. My lean-townread has been utterly obliterated over the course of this page.

[Mac]

UNVOTE:

I'd at least like to hear from HS on his recent actions.

[Mac]

Vote: Shroomish

I'm going back here. My lean-townread has been utterly obliterated over the course of this page.

Mac, did you get scum this game? This post is bad :/

You can explain why if you want, meanwhile here's why my townread was decimated. Shroomish agreed with sangres townread of me a few pages back, preceded to never mention me again until the vote and, despite two people asking,

is still yet to explain his vote.

This is a characteristic I'd associate with newish scum who forget how they faked their reads and I think it ties in here - since he hasn't given a direct read on me, he's forgotten that he agreed with sangres townread of me. The "shit, 24 hours" comment followed by starting a brand, shiny new wagon felt extremely fake and the lack of explanation & follow up to it has left me feeling rather uneasy with the whole thing.

Vote: Shroomish

[Mac]

FU, sangres. SMP was at 5 votes way earlier in the game. Where were you on that bandwagon then?

We have one day left. Please explain to us why HS should be kept alive.

You explain why he shouldn't.

His vote on Mac was bad, but it doesn't look scummy to us.

And why you are not willing to vote for him now.

We're generally not in favor of lynching townreads. I know, it's a radical idea, but it might just catch on.

I'm a bit mystified as to why you haven't called out Shroomish for the lack of following up to your request for an explanation to be honest.

I'm also curious as to how you see the vote as not scummy, because I'm seeing the total opposite here.

[Mac]

I'm incredibly surprised you buy it.

[Mac]

Does that mean gambits are frequent over yonder?

Regardless, had Scar included a reason, we'd be left with ".............." as a result. I don't buy it, I think it's a cheap excuse at trying to get out of jail free.

[Mac]

I am so fucking confused by this game right now.

SMP has no reason to lie, as either alignment, about Muffin's role unless he got super lucky about a guess, or of course they're both partners.

Anti has no reason, as either alignment, to counterclaim what SMP says unless he's scum wanting a really weak town PR lynched/towncred for killing a buddy. The former doesn't make any sense given the cop claim, and the latter doesn't really fit in with how Anti approached it either I don't think.

Neither option makes any sense, but I'm leaning towards SMP purely because I think he's the only viable lynch today. I think the whole "I wanted 2 shots off so I lurked" reasoning was bullshit too. Aaand furthermore, his accusation that Anti is lying and not being followed up by voting him doesn't make sense to me either. There's something else that made me think the claim was legit but a scum role, but I've forgotten.

Also, Aegor, you're wrong in your argument with Jake. The idea was clearly planted there by Anti.

[Mac]

is mac scum

yes

so is everyone not named Jake

[Mac]

Hey, I'm v/la til tomorrow. Bank holiday and all that.

[Mac]

Well I can definitely state that at least one of us is not scum, and have the evidence to back it up.

Catch up today!

[Mac]

got distracted yesterday by Papers Please. judge me.

[Mac]

VOTE: AJ

Another naked vote?

*gasp*

mara, while jake is an honorary mafia goon, i think we could do better.

based on reactions to the claim yesterday, i think it's AJ and muffin.

VOTE: AJ

Scum is scum, regardless of their role. you think there is another scum-PR, though?

muffin/SMP doesn't make sense. I'm thinking it's probably Kdub/Jake

jake's a tough nut to crack. he's playing to the scum win condition, but gut's still telling me he's not scum.

I actually agree with this. I also agree that muffin/SMP don't make sense either and am willing to say Muffin is town.

vote: zmuffinman

You're amazing.

we are exhausted from scumreading jake and having nothing happen from it, it saddens us

This may come as a shock to you, but you can have more than one scumread you know? Like, there's probably one more scum on top of Jake (probably two since Jake's not scum!) This pretty much looks like you're using your scumread on Jake as a basis for not doing anything.

vote: mac

when smp was getting run up the first time, he had like 5 votes and mac was defensive of smp and trying to smear my name. He also was lightly defensive of SMP during the anti/smp claim thing but said smp is the only viable lynch. Given smp fliped a scum pr, this defense stands out to me.

The people most likely partners with SMP are in the group of mac/hkc/zmuffinman with mac/zmuffin the most likely pair.

Looking at the interactions between the 3, smp/mac/zmuffin REALLY make sense. Somebody check my work

There's not one post in my ISO that defends SMP. Believe it or not (and I know you'll struggle with this) but I looked at an SMP lynch from both perspectives - I liked your case but you were tunnelling the ever living fuck out of him based on like 2 games and I wasn't sure if that was because you were scum pursuing an easy town lynch or not. I didn't try and "smear" your name, and then again during SMP/anti I looked at both sides of the argument and guess what? Neither made sense. I know you're super godly town, but do better.

it's also noteworthy that the only people trying to do stuff are people who are most likely town meanwhile zmuffin and mac are waiting to see where they can hop on and not be suspicious. Townies would be trying harder to find scum, especially when townies have the edge.

so go ahead and berate me, insult me, slander my name, or do whatever it is you think you can to distract town away from you but I guarantee if the other townies actually do their own work they will probably come to a similar conclusion.

Casually ignoring that I was V/LA. Thanks Jake!

If anyone strongly believes that Mac or AJ is town, please make your case. At this point, I fail to see any reason whatsoever to let two slots that have produced nothing of substance (or, in Mac's case, a defense of scum and nothing else except unexplained flip-flopping on the Day 1 HS) by Day 3 live.

1) I didn't defend scum
2) I didn't flip-flop on HS without clearly showing my thought process
3) I can prove at least one of us is town!

i don't think you can or do!

Believe me, I can.

Trying to read this game is the worst :/

HERE FUCKING HERE. I'd appreciate your thoughts Bro, since you're confirmed town and all.

The tiring thing about this game is the constant fucking whinging whenever someone gets called an idiot or petty. Grow a thicking skin and stop clogging up the gamethread with posts to the mod.

PEDIT

no jake! noooo!!!

[Mac]

Oh that's cool, I'm #NotBothered

[Mac]

Well we're neighbours, so there's that.

[Mac]

Well it proves one of your scumreads is wrong, possibly both, so that's pretty helpful.

[Mac]

I was V/LA with illness. The thread was not open. I cannot post in a locked thread. You can verify that elsewhere.

I should've PMed the mod, but didn't. Judge me.

[Mac]

Still town! But I have no time atm just got on at my break at work. Will explain things later

[Mac]

@Mac - why is Muffin town?

Feels. I really don't think he's scum with SMP, he said it best himself (self-meta ftw) that he's not afraid to bus the everliving fuck out of his buddies: for him to question both sides of SMP/Anti like such made him look town. I feel his thought process was almost similar to mine.

Obviously he's aware of his meta but still, point stands.

Well we're neighbours, so there's that.

any insight from anything said in the QT, or are you just going to mill around and hide behind the "one of us has to be town" wifom smokescreen?

VOTE: mac

i think you were right the first time, jake

Really?

I mean I could spend hours mulling over all of 6 posts but a) I had to go to work and b) this makes no sense from my scum perspective considering I played the original Tales of the Abyss game as a scum neighbour, with Nacho no less, and this has given me an insight into how I approach outing a neighbourhood as scum. So yeah, obviously I'm just hiding behind "one of us his town, please pick me!!!!!!" approach. Nice AtJ there too!

Mod: This is your thread.
Mod: It is now open.
Mac: Hey, what are your thoughts?
AJ: HKC is bad spammy, almost scummy for it, Anti is bad at playing, Sangres is hard to read, Jake is a potential lynchbait, Aegor plays bad but I vibe town, Muffin is a rough replace because he will add to the anger of the thread, Null on SMP, townish Kdub. What about you Mac-y-poo?

*end of n1*

Mod: Thread is open again. (

so, basically Mac didn't reply Night 1

)

AJ: People are expecting a lot of posts from me and I am busy and don't give a hoot, my claim could save me anyway, so *nyah!*
Mac: Wanted a longer day, should have slowed SMP wagon. Town on Sangres. Town on BRO due to Sangres. HKC/Jake - noisy but townish but maybe one is scum, lean Jake in that case. Aegor is scummy, AJ is towny, Kdub is forgettable. Am I forgetting anything?
AJ: You forgot Anti. I lean that wasn't a bus though. Muffinz is also here, though I combine him with the other aggressive spam posters and find their demands on me unreasonable and playstyle based.
Mod: SG is supah sexy and awesome and cool - also she now has this link.

Pretty much that's it.

This is pretty much it, AJ was missing most of night one, and the bolded is a total misrep of what the fuck went down really. That's a bit worrying.

squirrel, why did you feel the need to defend your predecessor's actions?

Presumably squirrel has an interest in her slot's survival, hence an interest in defending her predecessor's actions to the extent she is able.


VOTE: Mac

1) I didn't defend scum
2) I didn't flip-flop on HS without clearly showing my thought process
3) I can prove at least one of us is town!

1) Chainsaw defense in posts 280 and 340. You mention SMP as a "concern" in post 582, but that unsurprisingly leads nowhere. You mention also that Jake's case is legit enough to make you think of SMP scum, but this also goes nowhere. Then you go back to voting HS, who had been tunneling SMP. You express your belief that SMP is more likely scum than Anti, but this goes nowhere. You do not post again for 5-6 days because, according to you, your V/LA.

2) I found the explanation you offered after revoting HS totally uncompelling, especially since the tunnel and naked vote accusations could be
leveled with equal validity against many other players.

I think you're confusing a chainsaw defense on SMP with my scumread on HS. At the time, you didn't call neither a chainsaw defense and it appears like you're using a scumflip to your advantage 'cause you've found a link between me and SMP. I probed in his general direction because his game content was nothing more than SMP being scum (ironically right) but that doesn't make it a fucking chainsaw.

As for 2, why didn't you bring it up earlier if that's what you thought?

AJ: People are expecting a lot of posts from me and I am busy and don't give a hoot, my claim could save me anyway, so *nyah!*

Aj posted this (or something along these lines) unprompted? Obviously I don't have the exact words, but this gave me bad vibes.

Did you two claim to each other in the neighborhood?

I mean, it's pretty clear we haven't other than AJ's little whatever-the-hell-that-is. Between this and your previous question (both clearly answered) this makes me feel like you're posting in an effort to look like you're doing something.

Seems unlikely scum would bus at this point, or let pressure on a buddy build this far. Mac-town implies one of {Anti, Jake, Aegor} scum, and then probably 1-off for the other scum.

I mean I know you are essentially confirmed town (assuming you aren't

the GF

) but did you forget the game you modded?

The wording here is off

the comment you made about "proving one of is town" for some reason sends shivers up my spine and I feel like your lack of participation is an effort to be as anti-town as possible. Also you not being more suspicious of your neighbor feels weird as fuck. This game is sucking the life out of me

do you have scum reads?

Until recently, I wasn't. There hasn't been alot of participation between us in our neighbourhood but I made an early reachout and he answered pretty openly, as he did in his first post. But SG's blatant misrep and the "I'll claim to get out of a lynch" made me all ya know?

Yes I do. Everyone but you.

More seriously, Aegor/Kdub/SG/HKC is where the scum lie I think.

[Mac]

Mac, is SG's paraphrase accurate? I'm curious why this wouldn't have gotten your attention at all.

Obviously it got my attention, but I'm not really caring about his role, more his alignment. Maybe he was checking if I'd kill him? Who knows!

Meanwhile, are you going to do anything substantial?

[Mac]

It's the use of 'the' that's throwing me (as in you knew there was one), but you using it again suggests it's just the way you must type it rather than anything of concern

[Mac]

aren't a GF fits better than the GF.

Irrelevant nonetheless.

[Mac]

This is pretty much it, AJ was missing most of night one, and the bolded is a total misrep of what the fuck went down really. That's a bit worrying.

Really? That's silly. If you wanted to share more thoughts your posting could have been "here are my thoughts - what are yours?". You didn't share much Night 1 - you shared nothing. I'll admit to not checking the time stamps, but I'm pretty sure there was a gap between AJ's reply and question and the end of Night. Why does me saying this worry you?

I wanted AJ's thoughts first. I had a reasonable townread on him from d1 reachouts but during night one I wanted to see how his reads were looking. Obviously I couldn't reply (the gap you are referring to between AJ's was the wee hours of the night here) but I opened my posting on n2 in the neighbourhood with my reads as well.

It worries me cus it looked like you were trying to spin me out to be delibrately not posting, or at fault for the lack of posts, when in fact it was AJ's - evidently, he couldn't help it though.

[Mac]

"Who knows"...well the point is that you are in a position to know more, and you didn't care enough to. If my neighbor says to me, "I'm busy, I don't care, and my claim will save me if it comes to it," you can bet I'm going to have some follow-up questions. TBH I find both you and Aj's behavior regarding that exchange to be strange. I'm trying to decide whether strange == scummy.

Last sentence is fair since I haven't been too into this game, but LOL considering the source.

What should my line of questioning have been here then, superman? "wat iz ur role" does not qualify as a question.

Nice discredit in the last line. Here's how your questioning went:

Mac: Me and AJ are in a neighbourhood
KDub: So you and Muffin are in a neighbourhood?
Someone else: No, him and AJ
Kdub: Okay, so you and AJ are in a neighbourhood?

SG: *paraphrases everything that happened in the neighbourhood*
Kdub: Did you two claim in the neighbourhood?

Both of those were entirely pointless questions just covered, and it looks like you're just asking things in an effort to look like you're doing something.

Vote: Kdub

[Mac]

I have zero time atm but al try to make a few hours tonight.

[Mac]

Once again I've ran out of time and not sure I'll get on tomorrow, but I'll claim my role later tonight and hopefully get a catchup done in the meantime..

[Mac]

Claim: Phacia, Miller non-consecutive Doctor

(and neighbour obviously)

Yes, I am a miller. No, I did not claim it. I hoped to be town enough that I need not claim it, but my RL time has let me down here. I wasn't even going to claim it as part of my role (cause it's irrelevant now the cop is dead), but looking at flavour, I felt I'd need to. I will be more than happy to answer any questions tonight/tomorrow if there's still time.

What should my line of questioning have been here then, superman? "wat iz ur role" does not qualify as a question.

"Why are you being deliberately antitown?" might have been a nice start, or "explain yourself" or something along those lines. Definitely not just ignoring it altogether.

Nice discredit in the last line.

Both of those were entirely pointless questions just covered, and it looks like you're just asking things in an effort to look like you're doing something.

My discredit is accurate. Last quote is hypocritical since you cherry-picking quotes to paint me as scummy is pretty much exactly the thing you are accusing me of.

I have no interest in AJ's role right now, regardless of whether he softclaims it or not. I have no desire to know, and more importantly, I have no need to know, so why should I push him further on it? He's either gambiting, dumb town, or scum trying to scare me off. And quite frankly, I had no desire to learn on night 2.

Cherry picking suggests I'm running through your ISO and only picking quotes which suit me. I'm picking up on your reaction to me outing the neighbourhood, which was weak as hell. Tell me, do you think your questions were worthwhile?

Will get to this later today.

Come on man.

That reads as weak to me. He was a town read for you so you wanted his thoughts and to have a discussion but when he wasn't posting you just sat quietly but hated on him for not sharing? I don't really get it. Why not just share first yourself? WHat big difference did it make? What did you learn by making him go first?

It's my own personal preference. Whilst I may have thought AJ was town, I know my alignment for sure. I'd rather see his thoughts first rather than be paranoid about posting mine first and then seeing his.

kdub, the aegor wagon isn't likely to happen. time to join the HKC wagon

I'd prefer Mac to HKC if there's still interest there, but I'll get behind an HKC lynch if that's the most viable option. Really, any flip of SG/Mac/Aegor/HKC would be useful IMO.

God, you really are scum. Why would the flips of each be "useful", assuming at least 2 of those 4 are town?

I wish Jake would seriously give up on this SMP shit. If there was ever a prime bussing candidate in this game, it was SMP. Are you trying to ride to endgame on this SMP lynch or something, like bussing never existed?

@Mac - what's the Kdub case again? How do you feel about the HKC wagon?

Didn't like his reaction to the neighbourhood being outed, haven't liked his general d3 posting. Looks like he's targeted me as a mislynch and is now coming out of his shell to push it today. There's probably more from d1/2 that looks scummy but I haven't had time, like I said in the neighbourhood, he was forgettable which is something town never wants to be. May have been scum blending into the background.

HKC wagon doesn't interest me today, at least. Although I haven't like some of their posts, there are bigger fish to fry.

[Mac]

I've explained why smp/scar( muffin) make sense.

Can you point me to this?

the same could be said for AJ

but only one of mac/AJ can be scum

Do you think both are town? I cannot see that happening, so I say we just lynch Mac today and lynch AJ tomorrow if Mac flips town.

Oh wow. Good play Aegor!

The lack of content from BRO recently is seriously giving me paranoia that he's a GF and just winging it to end game. What are the chances of that though? Can't be that high surely.

Btw mac seems like he's stalling. Wonder if hkc popped in to create a distraction

So you think that HKC, who was been pushing you the entire day, is now doing it just to create a distraction? I'm genuinely sorry I can't be here 24/7 and have a busy week at work, but I've gotten up early today to address this game, so suck it.

2) The point of policy lynches is that they are pro-town regardless of the target's alignment. There is a fallacious assumption in your argument that the only pro-town lynches are on scum.

I have never understood this. If you are policy lynching town, that's one whole fucking mislynch gone all because you don't like said player, or there playing style. I find it rather shitty, to be honest. And certainly not pro-town.

Someone summarize the mac wagon for me.

I'll give you a hint: it's bullshit.

I'd be willing to lynch Kdub, Aegor and possibly SG, although I'd rather spend the night chatting with her in the neighbourhood and figuring out her alignment that way rather than with a flip. I imagine she'll be alot more helpful than AJ.

[Mac]

Mac's probly town, this is a terrible lynch

Intent.

going for towncred?

[Mac]

Add HKC on to that list of people I would lynch today, that was really bad.

[Mac]

Protected BRO. Pretty obviously fferycho were one shot from the way they came out and claimed, so I thought the conf town would be more a target rather than the slot which can still have dirt thrown on it.

Lynch if you fucking want, but there's no CC coming and you're just being delibrately obtuse regarding it. I'm pretty sure Dan didn't claim his PR either so what the fuck are you going on about?

[Mac]

Also I didn't claim my target originally because WIFOM with scum but fuck you all, you evidently don't know how to play that game.

Vote: HKC

This is where my vote is going for the blatant flip flop earlier on this page, it looks like they're vying for towncred when I flip town.

[Mac]

Lynch if you fucking want, but there's no CC coming and you're just being delibrately obtuse regarding it. I'm pretty sure Dan didn't claim his PR either so what the fuck are you going on about?

Unless you're talking about yourself Jake, in which case, fucking lol

[Mac]

Lynch if you fucking want, but there's no CC coming and you're just being delibrately obtuse regarding it. I'm pretty sure Dan didn't claim his PR either so what the fuck are you going on about?

Unless you're talking about yourself Jake, in which case, fucking lol

Yes I was the only claimed pr so you should have been on me n1

So how did you know I hadn't protected you before I'd claimed?
Also, why the fuck would I protect you when you were never going to die?

It's not all about you Jake.

[Mac]

Also I didn't claim my target originally because WIFOM with scum but fuck you all, you evidently don't know how to play that game.

Have you ever done this before as town?

No idea. Never had this type of role before but it's a pretty basic way to play it.

Maybe it doesn't really work when you're in the position I am, but I had fleeting visions of townies realising what I was doing for a second!

[Mac]

Also I didn't claim my target originally because WIFOM with scum but fuck you all, you evidently don't know how to play that game.

Have you ever done this before as town?

No idea. Never had this type of role before but it's a pretty basic way to play it.

Maybe it doesn't really work when you're in the position I am, but I had fleeting visions of townies realising what I was doing for a second!

miller claims need to be in the first post. period.

that's mafia 101, so the room you have to act like a condescending prick is very small.

No, it doesn't.

pedit: Jake, seriously? Have you even fucking played mafia before?

[Mac]

There is literally no chance in hell I was protecting you ever this game. I'll have a look at my games. But why does it matter as an investigative role?

pedit - no.

[Mac]

1) cool. sometimes millers play different! SHOCK AND AWE. Why did I claim miller as scum then Ant?

Idk about the second bit, take it up with the mod post game.

2) sangres was one shot. I didn't think you were a threat to the scum. I didn't think Jake was a threat to the scum. I thought BRO would be, if he upped his game.

[Mac]

Ok lynch mac now

Do I have to hold your hand through everything? Honestly it's like you've never fucking played mafia. You do not "protect the PR" who is never, IN A MILLION FUCKING YEARS, going to be killed. THAT IS BAD PLAY.

[Mac]

You thought bro was more of a threat to scum than anti?

Gtfoh

Yeah, you have to remember this was during night two and before he started being overcome with apathy.

p-edit: because when BRO ups his game, he's an incredible asset to the town. I've never really played with you. Do I regret the decision? Given his lack of content here, obviously I do.

pedit2: how the fuck have I hooked up scum?

Nah, he's not. But there's literally no reason for scum-me to claim miller in this scenario, is there Jake?

[Mac]

NONE OF THE CLAIMED PRS YOU SAID I SHOULD PROTECT ARE DEAD HOW ARE SCUM HOOKED UP?????

[Mac]

And also clearly one shot. Like I said, I didn't think scum would go for them so soon.

[Mac]

Jake, fuck you? Why would I waste a protect on you (you're not going to die, let's be honest) tonight?

[Mac]

UNVOTE:

Im willing to work with Muffin and Bro atm since theyre my strongest town reads at the moment, muffin would you prefer SG over k
Hkc?

Aegor has rapidly moved to my strongest scum read for comments like 1900 but i fear its too late to wagon him.

[Mac]

1) Miller claim like Day 3, which conveniently preempts cop investigations. Doc claim that could potentially never have been verified since he refused to protect the one person who could have verified. Who knows what the position will be today.

Jesus Christ. Pre-empting the cop

THAT HAS ALREADY FLIPPED

is my scum strategy? And I'm sure you would waste a protect on Jake from State Farm too! No really, I believe you!

2) Conspicuous absence from the SMP wagon

Cool. Like that's a scumtell.

3) Votes HKC after defending the slot and then putting it into the scumpile for no reason. Then unvotes for no real reason and does not revote.

Oh wow. My stance was clear on HKC; I thought their "Mac's probably town" and then intent to hammer was a scummy as fuck move, and clearly I was right. I unvoted to try and work with my strongest townreads who were not on HKC. Meanwhile, you tiptoed around the HKC wagon, voted SG and then hammered for what looked to me and SG like a blatant attempt at towncred once you realised the wagon wasn't going to go through.

Vote: Aegor

I'm confident this is where the last scum lies.

[Mac]

Also, someone please remind me how BRO is cleared.

...the fucking cop innocent and confirmed flip, perhaps?

[Mac]

Yes, I'm a neighbor at the shrine where I'm starting a new life, having turned my back on my sisters. I'm a miller because people still recognize me as one of them, and I'm a doctor because I've been rewarded by Althena with some of her power for defecting from the others.

[Mac]

So under normal circumstances I'd say I'll go read the whole game in detail, etc., but I can't promise that right now.

Hey Mac, how do you feel about protecting me if you have such an ability?

Depends if you're going to be better than Jake. I'm not wasting a protect on someone who's not going to die when I can actually block a potential kill from the scum.

[Mac]

Unless the entire town agrees it's for the best... until the obvious happens. (See mastin's post referencing this.)

[Mac]

I'd set an order, but:

1) I'm not the boss of everyone (as much as I'd like to be) and

2) I don't remember who other than me hasn't claimed yet.

you're confirmed town, you're as much of a boss as we're going to get...?

[Mac]

I am telling you, BRO should not be in lylo.

This is the worst argument I have ever heard. Unless this is some batshit crazy setup that is incredibly unbalanced (hint: it's not, because bork) then BRO is absolutely, 100% CONFIRMED TOWN.

You are most definitely scum trying to plant a seed of doubt, and if you're town... well, what the fuck?

[Mac]

Gonna be V/LA the weekend

[Mac]

I'm still alive. I don't think much has changed in terms of my thoughts (ie Aegor) but there's some posts I haven't read and won't get to read until tomorrow or tonight at least.

[Mac]

I don't think we should lynch anyone until mastin clarifies what she is talking about. I'm on the fence about mastin right now, prefer Aegor at least, but I won't know about her for sure until she's a bit clearer about where she's coming from.

Why don't you move your vote to mastin and actually press her, instead of only offering to if others will follow?

In the meantime, I'll doc penguin tonight but I'm meh about it all really.

[Mac]

Pretty much.

Still thinking Aegor, the whole self-hammering comments looks like a charade in an attempt to look town. But yeah, pretty much waiting on penguin and charizard.

[Mac]

I think we need to get this ball rolling. Although I'd still prefer Aegor, I'll hammer Kdub in 3 or so hours, and confirm myself tonight. If anyone has anything else to say, speak now.

[Mac]

VOTE: Kdub

[Mac]

To point the finger at me?

Or they went for penguin trying to see if I was gonna put my money where my mouth was.. doesn't make much sense that one.

also:

v/la til Wednesday

[Mac]

If they killed last night then they have 1 definite clear in me. with BRO already being cop cleared and still being doubted, it made sense to leave everyone in doubt again I think. I pointed to this yday in thread and in the neighborhood last night too.

[Mac]

Checking in here, reading.

[Mac]

Mac can only be scum if he's a scum PR that visits PA without doing anything, like, say, roleblocking. Furthermore, given the townread from beastcharizard, I kinda want to trust him on that. And him sacrificing the nightkill doesn't make that much sense to me, either, given that he can kill PA and claim it means the remaining scum is a roleblocker.

If I was a roleblocker, p_a wouldn't have had a result.

I had a bad feeling about you mastin, but I'm yet to put my finger in it. You seem to be pretty non-commital on a read on me, choosing to "believe" other players like charizard rather than yourself. Reminding me of Anything Goes to be honest, looks like you're setting up a flip-flop on me later on, or now even.

Meanwhile Aegor continues to derp around! And the sky is blue.

[Mac]

That post has actually reminded me that I'm not actually non-consec (neighborhood knows this) but 2 shot - I bluffed non-consec hoping too catch someone out n3 but opted not to use it cos I thought you all might want me to prove myself at some point.

[Mac]

Also I haven't read anything else I need to respond too properly (god you can type mastin, can't you?!) and won't get too until after work.

[Mac]

Mac, you have used both of your protects?

Yes I have.

[Mac]

You've taken a really weird claim here when in the hood & thread you say I'm town and you 100% believe, and now you're going to lynch me based on a theory? My word.

[Mac]

UNVOTE:

I still think my theory has the best chances of victory but it probably has the most drawbacks if I am wrong. I unpropose my theory now.

Mac, I will tell you tonight my theory and why I thought lynching you would greatly increase our chances of winning the game.

This works for me I guess?

VOTE: vote: Aegor[/b]

back to here. still think he's scum. mastin has also entered my brain but I'm not sure what to think about her atm.

[Mac]

ha, didn't even realise.

vote: Aegor

[Mac]

I suppose I should start with the obvious.

Mac:

What made me enter your mind?
Why can't you make anything of me?
Why haven't you put the time and effort into figuring me out?

I've already said your flip flop reminded me of what did you to me in Anything Goes (ie - you read me as strong town and then moulded me into a lynchable player, eventually lynched) and now I'm still seeing it especially now. Aegor is still top of my list, and you can quit the charade where you seem to think you have been the only one pushing Aegor when he's been my top scumread since d2/3, can't remember which. But yeah, you're a possibility if Aegor is somehow town.

The last two questions can be answered in one: my motivation for mafia is at an all time low just now, and this will probably be my last game for a period of time.

[Mac]

Going to be V/LA the weekend, bork.

Will try and get on before deadline but I'm not optimistic about my chances.