I basically know absolutely nothing about the game. (I found it accidentally, even.
![Razz :P](./images/smilies/icon_razz.gif)
I agree with trying, though I'm concerned that it will not go as well as we're hoping. (For reasons that I think aren't too hard to figure out but I'd rather not say just in case.)In post 1980, Kdub wrote:I'd be OK with letting Mac confirm himself on penguin tonight.
*grumble, grumble, make me check my inbox for something worthless, grumble, grumble*
You should do it anyway. Chance of blocking kill is less valuable than chance of confirming self at this stage of the game.In post 2015, Mac wrote:Unless the entire town agrees it's for the best... until the obvious happens. (See mastin's post referencing this.)
Well, I can't, because part of VCA is the circumstances behind the votes...which I know nothing about. I gave that VCA and noted potential trends in there, basically showing switches that I thought could be important. And wagon developments that could be, too. But me not being in the game at the time, I don't know about whether they actually were or not.In post 2027, Kdub wrote:mastin, I read your VCA, but a lot of your comments are just that certain VCs are "interesting" or something of the sort without further explanation. Can you summarize the VCs that you thought were most important and what those tell you about current players?
They're saying the same thing?In post 2032, Squirrel Girl wrote:In post 2026, mastin2 wrote:along with some basic VCA that decently points towards Aegor for the last scum.In post 2029, mastin2 wrote:Well, I can't, because part of VCA is the circumstances behind the votes...which I know nothing about. I gave that VCA and noted potential trends in there, basically showing switches that I thought could be important. And wagon developments that could be, too. But me not being in the game at the time, I don't know about whether they actually were or not.In post 2027, Kdub wrote:mastin, I read your VCA, but a lot of your comments are just that certain VCs are "interesting" or something of the sort without further explanation. Can you summarize the VCs that you thought were most important and what those tell you about current players?
Both?In [url=/forum/viewtopic.php?p=5912596#p5912596]post 2034[/url], Squirrel Girl wrote:I feel like 2026 is saying 'I presented VCA that shows that Aegor is scum'
I think 2029 is saying 'My VCA was presented to get opinions from others and I can't explain anything about it'
Which one do I have wrong?
Looks potentially important, though.In post 273, SMP wrote:I imagine it's because I'm one of the only ones he's played a game with.In post 266, BROseidon wrote:Why the tunnel on SMP when I'd been equally inactive up to this point?In post 196, HighShroomish wrote:hmph...
SMP where are you? Why have you only had ONE post all game? I don't even think I'm usually this quiet, especially in a fast moving game like this.
Would SMP group two scumbuddies together like this?In post 336, SMP wrote:This is a curious post. You don't deny what you were doing at all.In post 332, Aegor wrote:You just noticed? Why was my catboi vote the one that prompted a vote on me from you?
Does HKC always have so many posts, a decent percentage of which just kinda clog up the thread? I understand that walls are frowned upon, but a couple of those 1-2 sentence posts could be merged together to make things somewhat easier to read.
Jake interaction vaguely looks town, but no way of being sure. Aegor read also very vaguely looks town, but can't be certain. HKC was the scum-null-read, and I think this bit about BROseidon is decent enough to call BROseidon likely town outside the result on him.In post 581, SMP wrote:Jake, I can't even really disagree with you. If anyone else had the same amount of activity as me I'd probably think they were scum also. Unfortunately, I really just have been that busy this week.
I think there's one scum on my wagon at this point. Jake, you seem town motivated to me. Aegor seems to be in the same vein as Jake, though the no explanation votes earlier in the day are still somewhat worrying. I can't really get a read on HKC, there's so many filler posts that it's difficult to pull the worthwhile posts out.
That just leaves BROseidon. I think it's between him and whoever is controlling the ??? vote. BRO for the later in the game day middle vote (4th/7) that tends to push a wagon to L-1 and a claim. If a new wagon doesn't start up soon the original person usually gets lynched. It's not a strong read, but it's my strongest non-hidden voter read. Whoever controlling the ??? vote is my strongest scum read. They put their vote on me when it was only HighShroomish on it. If a wagon formed, great, they don't need to move it to help scum. If nothing came of it, they can just move their vote to the wagon that forms to quicklynch. Jake, you mentioned that you think you know who the ??? is, do you think they're town or scum?
Until I get a better understanding on who the ??? is I'm leaving a tentative vote on BRO.
VOTE: BRO
AKA, not scum vs scum.In post 822, SMP wrote:I leave for a couple hours and come back to Jake and HKC blowing up the thread with their half drunken town vs town exchange.
(Note, check Anti's reads. They tend to be awesome.) Seriously warming up to a kdub vote now.I like Anti's posts since coming into the game, though I'm not really getting the kdub read. Where are you getting that from Anti?
But I need to look over who's the claimed true-VTs in this game. We know this claim's truthful. I'm willing to bet the result is, too. Meaning the result of vanilla is going to be on one of our VT claims. (I know I'm one of 'em, but I also know there's another player who's claimed VT and nothing else; if that was Kdub [I can't recall off the top of my head], then there's that 50% chance that he was investigated.)In post 1189, SMP wrote:I'm odd night rolecop + reporter. Last night I got a vanilla role result from my target. I don't want to reveal the name since if they're town then I don't want scum to have a person who isn't a PR.
In post 1216, SMP wrote:I targeted the Scar/Muffinman slot.
Eh, screw it, might as well throw it out; it's not like he's in any danger of being lynched anyway.In post 1344, SMP wrote:I"ll Nall. My exact role is Odd-Night Rolecop and Reporter. Yes, you're correct. A PR would return the role name while a VT/goon would only return that they're Vanilla.In post 1317, Kdub wrote:SMP, can you claim your flavor name and confirm that your role is specifically called "odd-night role cop and reporter"? And to confirm exactly how your role works, if you were to investigate a PR (of either alignment), you would get their actual role (e.g. "cop", "doctor", "roleblocker", etc.), but if you investigate a VT/goon, you get "vanilla"?
I'm not entirely sure what happened last night. All I know is that I got a vanilla result on Muffinman.
I agree, my play yesterday was sub optimal and didn't help town. I tried something different with a PR and it failed miserably.
(Both slots I'm definitely saying town on.)In post 79, Hello Kitty Creampuff wrote:Mara says Bro always thinks she's scum and so does AJ.
There is a minor question of, "is there a bus", but I lean no.In post 202, Hello Kitty Creampuff wrote:(AJ, Jake, and Aegor)
Same here; it looks like setting up a townflip of one and then pushing for a lynch on town of the other.In post 662, Hello Kitty Creampuff wrote:I don't think Aegor and Jake are scum together, though
Looks important.In post 860, Hello Kitty Creampuff wrote:Ehhh, i havnt really touched Kdub, though I guess I can see where you're coming from re him
'Specially given this.In post 862, Hello Kitty Creampuff wrote:Well, I guess it's more, I feel like someone between the Jake/aj is scum but not together and, if I am wrong on one of the reads, id much rather it be Jake because I don't know how ti work with town him while I have some idea as to how to work with aj
Given the hypocrisy in this (checked and kdub had only one vote), I can still see it as being distancing-for-towncred. (Also checking there, there's actually no SMP wagon at the time.)In post 1079, Hello Kitty Creampuff wrote:Dude, we have 5 hours, join one of the counter wagons, don't make any new ones
But I did read some context to get to here. When push came to shove, there were only two viable wagons. Kdub's, and the Shroom wagon.In post 1170, borkjerfkin wrote:Votecount 1.24 (Final)
[7] HighShroomish (Kdub, SMP, Aegor, Mac, Jake From State Farm, sangres, Hello Kitty Creampuff)
[4] Kdub (Antihero, ???, ActionDan, HighShroomish)
[1] Antihero (Aj The Epic)
[1] SMP (BROseidon)
[1] Not Voting (PhDScar)
The former half gives pause to Mac.
(Checking out context, not exactly this, but sorta along those lines, in that HKC was setting things up so that a hammer could happen at any time, it looks like.)In post 1809, Mac wrote:Add HKC on to that list of people I would lynch today, that was really bad.
This actually does look town, though.In post 1897, Aegor wrote:I would be willing to lynch HKC if no other option is available.
I see no reason whatsoever to let Mac live. I do not believe his claim, and he has stated explicitly that he will not confirm it either.
But this gives serious pause. :/In post 1927, borkjerfkin wrote:Votecount 3.14
[4] Squirrel Girl (zMuffinMan, BROseidon, Hello Kitty Creampuff, Aegor)
[3] Hello Kitty Creampuff (Squirrel Girl, Antihero, Kdub)
[2] Not Voting (Mac, Jake From State Farm)
Yet Aegor delivered the hammer. Kdub's vote was just a "shot in the dark"--the type of vote easily removed. Aegor's was a hammer vote, which if he was scum would leave him alone.
(Antihero's last non-Mac scumread was back there, so there's also that.)In post 1606, Antihero wrote:scumread on kdub is back with a vengeance
Sheeping Mastin also makes her paranoid! (Okay, I think I did ask to be sheeped, so I guess not as much, but still.)
The former, no, you were just among the more likely candidates because of the latter, yes, I'm using dead scum players and dead town players combined with VCA to scumhunt. Which resulted in the POE where you were among the main possibilities. Is this a rock-solid case, no. IS it a case, honestly not that much of one; it's more of a 'best guess vote' that I just so happen to think should be followed.In post 2053, Kdub wrote:The rest of your case seems like you're starting with a goal of looking for reasons to call me scum and then trying to look for interpretations of things to fit that conclusion. Your case lacks anything I can directly respond to because it has very little to do with me and a lot to do with people who are now dead.
I'm not exactly sure about the math, so I could be wrong and it's objectively only a 50/50, but I think it's possible to do better. As I said, still crunching the numbers.Can you explain how you think we've got it won?
General traits that come up in lazy-VCA that ignore context, basically abstract yet vaguely holding validity as a scumhunting tool.In post 2054, Squirrel Girl wrote:Can you explain how your VCA points to Aegor?
Objectively speaking, you can actually make a fairly decent one against me off of dead scum's defense of my slot.What is the case on Mastin?
No? I mean...that's really it. I don't have a detailed description on why I thought the VCA vaguely pointed towards Aegor. It really was just a bunch of general vague thingies using fairly arbitrary criteria that sorta pointed that way to me. Like, you're asking me to explain something that I've already given the most detailed existing explanation for. I can try using alternative vocabulary, but you're not going to get any more depth than what you have, because you've already gone to the bottom layer. Arbitrary trends in VCA, how wagons formed, positioning, switching, and whatnot. I really can't give you more than that because that's really all there was to it.In post 2058, Squirrel Girl wrote:Are you intentionally trying to be vague when answering this question?
None that I can think of. I just kinda saw it and commented on it. Not everything I say is going to be with purpose; sometimes, I just blurt things out. I'm looking forward to Kdub's official reasoning too.Is there a reason for this interjection? Are you looking to have me change my question or withdraw it or what? I don't understand why you're saying this and for what purpose.
Um, sure. Not at this moment, though; that'll take a fair amount of time to do.In post 2061, Squirrel Girl wrote:@Mastin - use the alternate vocabulary then. What might be nice is taking your answer "arbitrary trends, how wagons formed, yadda-yadda" and presenting them like this;
Abritrary Trends;
Example
Example
Explanation of examples.
How wagons formed.
Example
Example
Explanation of examples.
Since that is, what I am asking for. So now that you understand what I've been asking for maybe you can manage an answer, yes and please?
A regret about only coming in now is that most of the people who would be able to tell ya that yes I most certainly have been town are already dead.In post 2067, Kdub wrote:mastin herself hasn't been particularly town or scum.
Admittedly, I've probably not done nearly as much as could be done (though JUST off of D4 posting...there's really no slot that isn't guilty of thatIn post 2069, Aegor wrote:I do not think mastin has been scumhunting at all, no.
I fully admit the IIoA parts are IIoA, but I haven't posted JUST IIoA. (As for you wanting specifics. The thing about vague is that it's kinda theIn post 2075, Aegor wrote:More specifically, mastin has just been posting tons of "analysis" that is actually more IIoA and then saying that it vaguely leads to feelings that someone is somehow scummy, but no more specificity can be provided, of course.
Just don't expect it today. (Probs-not tomorrow, either, circumstances depending.) Final weeks of college and all that, slightly V/LA in that I don't want to have my rl suffer for my mafia games. (But I'm otherwise fine since I think I can get it done before deadline, depending on when deadline is. I can likely squeeze in time tonight if deadline were to be, say, tomorrow [same will be true tomorrow], but obviously, I have other things I'm juggling that I'd like to tackle first if not.)In post 2077, Squirrel Girl wrote:She has offered promises of clarifying stuff.
It'd help if you asked me on what.In post 2081, Mac wrote:I don't think we should lynch anyone until mastin clarifies what she is talking about.
Kinda goes without saying?In post 2086, Squirrel Girl wrote:You feel very disassociated from the game right now.
Basically,In post 2130, BROseidon wrote:Waiting on penguin to post content :/
Please explain this to me.In post 2133, beastcharizard wrote:For the record, Mac is town.
My vote's on Kdub.In post 2148, Aegor wrote:Can we please lynch someone?
Honestly, my best answers are either you/BRO choosing to no-kill or you being a Ninja.In post 2173, Aegor wrote:Also, I am having trouble coming up with reasons why there was a NK.
(I hate to play the card, and I'm not really gonna play it, except I kinda am in that I do hope you'll forgive me if I retain SOME skepticism about that given how a limited-cop can go against a godfather and a miller in the same game which you know from first-hand experience*.)In post 2176, BROseidon wrote:If you all lynch me because I "might" be a godfather put into the game to compensate for a 1-shot cop, then y'all seriously need to get your heads checked.
Given the above, the best I've got is you. :/In post 2177, Aegor wrote:Anyone have strong thoughts about who should be lynched?
Won't get resistance from me.In post 2185, Aegor wrote:I think I may want to lynch mastin.
Actually, it was yesterday, not today or tomorrow.In post 2195, Mac wrote:You seem to be pretty non-commital on a read on me, choosing to "believe" other players like charizard rather than yourself. Looks like you're setting up a flip-flop on me later on, or now even.
Frankly I'd be kinda suspicious of her if she was, but I don't think so. I'd think it'd be more off of reading what I've written and thinking about whether this is town-motivated or scum-motivated. And while townplay/scumplay does delve into meta somewhat, it's not difficult to read me as town from it. (In part because of the meta, in that, well...frankly, a scuMastin has......more? Just "more". 'More what?' It's just more. Best description I can give.) It's kinda complicated.In post 2190, Aegor wrote:Penguin, please tell me you are not townreading mastin based on meta.
The problem I have with it is that if Mac flips town, it sets up an Aegor vs. Mastin lynch in lylo. All nice and fine, in that if you're scum, I know I can beat you in a 1v1 fight...In post 2197, Aegor wrote:That plan seems fine to me.
Vehement, no.In post 2217, Aegor wrote:Is there any vehement opposition to lynching Mac?
I commit seppuku.In post 2219, Aegor wrote:Say you lynch me, and I flip town. What happens next?
Said about me. But, wellllllllllll......In post 2221, Aegor wrote:My only hesitation was if mastin had some other suspect. Since that is not the case, leggo.
In post 2226, Mac wrote:This works for me I guess?In post 2223, beastcharizard wrote:I still think my theory has the best chances of victory but it probably has the most drawbacks if I am wrong. I unpropose my theory now.
Mac, I will tell you tonight my theory and why I thought lynching you would greatly increase our chances of winning the game.
VOTE: vote: Aegor[/b]
back to here. still think he's scum. mastin has also entered my brain but I'm not sure what to think about her atm.
Just to be sure, does this still hold?In post 1995, penguin_alien wrote:So yeah, not interested in lynching the cop-cleared player on the offchance there's a GF. Especially when this is apathetic town-BRO.
I realize this was your initial opinion, but I'd like as much detail on your opinion of the two explained as possible.Aegor's too good a player to be going down this rabbit hole, but a miller with a one-shot cop is equally improbable. I'd lynch Aegor or Mac and take it from there.
I realize you have the tell on me (still insist it's not really that valid, btw), but can you explain the townread on me more clearly? Especially since with the Kdub lynch I kind-ofIn post 2064, penguin_alien wrote:I'll be very surprised if this is scum-mastin.
Assume Aegor's town.In post 2229, beastcharizard wrote:VOTE: Aegor
Ok, I feel like if Aegor isn't scum then tomorrow will be easy to pick out the scum.
Actually, yeah, it does.In post 2243, penguin_alien wrote:OK, briefly, beast and SG are/were both looking to solve the game in a way that I don't see coming from a last scum standing. Way too much effort for a solo scum who has no suspicion on them. Solo scum here who's a neighbor with Mac should find it easy to take a stance, vote one way or the other, with the other choice as a back-up and toss mastin in there as a paranoia option. Not question my towniness when they don't need my mislynch to win. Hope that helps.
If I knew that, this would be a much, much easier read to call.In post 2241, beastcharizard wrote:@Mastin:
Why is Mac scum? Like what about him exactly is scummy? Link me posts or something.
Oh.In post 2248, beastcharizard wrote:1. You don't see the neighborhood.
I suppose this in particular is also setting off alarm bells.In post 2246, Mac wrote:I've already said your flip flop reminded me of what did you to me in Anything Goes (ie - you read me as strong town and then moulded me into a lynchable player, eventually lynched) and now I'm still seeing it especially now. Aegor is still top of my list, and you can quit the charade where you seem to think you have been the only one pushing Aegor when he's been my top scumread since d2/3, can't remember which. But yeah, you're a possibility if Aegor is somehow town.
Umm...I replaced in day four, not day one?In post 2262, BROseidon wrote:Why would AD get killed N1? He had 26 posts, and scum either figured out he was a PR, or his death strongly implies that mastin is the last scum.
Not that it'd make much of a difference. (Aside from the remote chance of PA being scum. If that were the case, I'd have LOVED to be in her spot instead of mine.In post 2269, BROseidon wrote:I wish mastin and penguin replaced into the opposite slots. Is it too late to have this happen?
I haven't decided that myself.In post 2274, BROseidon wrote:Guys, should I read the Jake/Muffin pissing contest?
Because here I'm actually having doubt? Like...*points to votecount* I'm not voting Mac for a dang-good reason.In post 2279, BROseidon wrote:Why this soft of a response here, when, when I called you out on something similar in Tales of You (your response to AP's entrance from AG in Tales being the same across both games) you responded more pointedly?