Mini 1576 - Timeshift Mafia II - Endgame

[Bert]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 6#p4759486

D3f3nd3r
Mafia Scum

User avatar
Joined : March 25, 2012
Pronoun: He

Post Post #733 (isolation #41) » Sun Mar 03, 2013 5:16 pm
Role Player

Mafia:
1 Goon: SoraAdvent
1 Encryptor: Goodmorning
1 1-shot Strongman: Guille2015

Town:
1 Role Cop: Human Destroyer
1 Jailkeeper: Xalxe
1 Tracker: Keybladewielder
6 VTs: Leviathan93
PeregrineV
Regfan
Lastsurvivor
Sucrose
Cogito Ergo Sum

3rd Party:
1 Timeshifting Serial Killer: Lurker
(Abilities: regular NK; 1-shot Timeshifted kill; 1-shot Global Timeshift; 1-shot BP)

Role PMs: To get a role's Role PM, take the stuff for "All", their faction, and their role.

All: Welcome to Timeshift Mafia! Remember that all night actions submitted will not go into effect until the next night due to the timeshift.

Town: You are a member of the town. You win when all threats to the town are eliminated.
Mafia: You are a member of the mafia. Your partners are (___________, a Goon, __________, an Encryptor, and __________, a 1-Shot Strongman). While the Encryptor is alive, you may talk in http://www.quicktopic.com/48/H/6rdi6T7XCnuG at any time; if he is dead, you many only talk at night. You win when all of the town is eliminated, or nothing can prevent this.
Serial Killer: You are a Serial Killer. You have a regular Nightkill, one kill not effected by the timeshift, and one time where all actions take place on the day they are submitted. In addition, the first attempt on your life will be negated. You win when you are the last man standing, or nothing can prevent this.

Goon: You have no other abilities, but you are allowed to perform the Nightkill.
Encryptor: You are also an Encryptor. While you are alive, your Mafia team may talk during the Day. When you die, your Mafia team will only be able to talk at Night.
Strongman: You also have a 1-Shot Strongman kill. When you say to, but only once, your kill will be unable to be protected by any other role.
Role Cop: You are also a Role Cop. Each night, you can choose a player to learn their role. You will not learn their faction, and will receive Vanilla for any player without a night ability.
Tracker: You are also a Tracker. Each night, you can target a player to see who he targeted that night.
Jailkeeper: You are also a Jailkeeper. Each Night, you may imprison a player. When doing so, that player will be protected from all kills and will be unable to perform any actions.
Vanilla: You have no other abilities, but you do have your vote. Use it wisely!

All: Game thread is at viewtopic.php?f=23&t=25018. Confirm via PM.

[Bert]

My nonsensical thought process is:

<Tammy, Ceph> pool for an SK if it exists

<PV, Mara> for last scum

SK possibilities have me imagining the worst, especially having just seen Defender's last game where it was 3 vs. 1 vs. 9 or 8

Mara- staying or dying? Who is scum in you, Bert, Bulba? if that is town tirfecta, you'll need to talk hard.
Bert- why Bulba or Mara over you? You got others, that's great, but, to me, those are the three.
Bulba- see post above.

Everyone else- if you got a

REAL reason to clear any of these

please give it now. Otherwise, talk to me about who and why.

? How is anyone in this game 'clear' outside a confirmed town via dead PR??

And no, I'm not answering those questions because pitting us against each other as the only ones in your "supposed talk-big lynch-pool"....how do i say this...umm...

This is not a simple matter of just lynching through a pool.

[Bert]

#669 At deadline, Quadz08, the setup designer, will be posting the final votecount. His votecount should be accurate, and I ask that everyone here refrains from posting after the deadline or after he posts.

So quadz designed that setup. Hmm...

Town Role Cop Quote Post-game: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 1#p4764311

"Well, I thought it was a little annoying to not get my results until the next night, because by the time I actually get results on someone they die somehow. >.>

I didn't like the SK's ability to break the timeshift on N1, I was kinda hoping there would be no NK."

[Bert]

Me too.

[Bert]

I mean, her evasiveness ever since Pie was lynched is kinda unhelpful (putting off any twilight reads hinging on the flip, and then not going through with it after the next game day). I don't understand her rationale so far today. It's like she thinks scum might be eliminated and her transparency (which is evidently her strong suit) isn't there anymore. See her recent short, sharp bursts and compare them to her thoughts upon replacing in. It's like night and day.

[Bert]

VOTE: Tammy

^this is completely serious. She's also still dangling a vote on me (while not scumreading me), the same way she just did in our last game where she was scum (Arcadia). I waited for her to read me with more of a fine-toothed comb, but it never happened.

At the very least, this game that PV brought up (modded by Defender as well), should indicate that no reads here are iron-clad like PV is proposing. No one is "clear."

[Bert]

I'll look into it in a bit - gotta catch a ride to Wifi area before I hash out the rest of my reads so that people like PV can consider my reads more of part of his "questionable source"

However, I did read the first half of the game this afternoon - I'm revising my read on Mara to maybe-town because of Kaze and also the fact that three consecutive games ended where EspeciallyTheLies called me scum for virtually no reason other than "being familiar with my game" and flipped town in all three. It's REALLY reminding me of Mara beyond reasonableness. ETL was never forthcoming about reads on me either.

Scum may have targeted Bane thinking he's a probable-SK. I wonder if Tammy getting a vest is just a coincidence, as the vest-giving is actually corroborated. I no longer am stopping myself on the basis of "Bert this is outrageous thinking" of SK after seeing this last Timeshift game (which no one mentioned to me, why???). This is a BIG DEAL. Same Mod, similar mechanics...relatively recent game.

Yes, I have been worried about extra killers. And then there's the setup argument. Do our PRs have something to balance what's being claimed/flipped. JK has a counterpart in the flipped RB.

These are all speculations. Tammy killing Messiah also makes sense in the context of a scumhunting SK. Sense of urgency may have been lacking because she could kill Pie without lynching.

[Bert]

tl;dr

Scum shot Bane/Tammy (BP due to vest, or naturally BP who knows), Tammy/Bane shot Messiah. The pros/cons make sense for those actions.

[Bert]

PeregrineV
Bulbazak
Anatole Kuragin <PROD> <PROD>
Bert
Studio 54 (Cephrir/Axxle/PrivateI)
Tammy
Bbmolla
Ms Marangal <PROD>

There's nowhere to hide, Tammy.

Molla, Mara, Ceph, Anatole --- all most likely town after re-read

Bulb and PV - not sure about them

Then there's you, m'dear Tammy.

OH MY FUCKING GOD.

I WAS THE NIGHT ONE KILL.

WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU TWO?

ARE YOU THE LAST SCUM?

WTF?

4 scum? Nope! You yourself said that you could still be SK, but not mafia.

You were content to let the town carry you.

I've done 20 times more legwork here than I did in Quickness.

You can't test me Bert. I'm fucking town.

I mean the only literal thing I could be is a Serial Killer, and that's it, that's all you can be paranoid about

.

[Bert]

Also, AtEing the heck out of me isn't going to work. If there's one thing I've learned from Nacho, it's that. That gaping hole in my swing is no longer there.

[Bert]

I WAS THE NIGHT ONE KILL.

WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU TWO?

I mean the only literal thing I could be is a Serial Killer, and that's it, that's all you can be paranoid about.

Did you read the Timeshift 1411 game? Do you see that there's no Vig claim out of all the claims since we're done massclaiming?

How did Messiah die if no vig or any town PR to explain it?

P-edit: who's left to massclaim?

[Bert]

Anatole is thinking you're a potential SK too.

Bert I voted you because I am fucking scum reading you.

Wrong!

I still want to think Bert's town; he's at least behaving nothing like he did in Mafia with a Quickness and was posting here while ignoring that game.

[Bert]

VOTE: bert

Timestamp: 1589 came before 1666 quoted above where she wants to think I'm town.

[Bert]

Given the ensuing storm of emotions going on, hmm let me see.

You called the ramblings about you possibly being SK as crap, almost as fast as you could.

Your votes today and yesterday don't appear to have lynch intention or pressure. You theorized yourself that you UNDERSTAND that people may be paranoid about you being an SK. You distinguished the difference and why you can still be an SK.

NONE OF THAT MAKES ANY SENSE.

What doesn't make sense?

WHAT THE FUCK IS YOUR PROBLEM? YOU THINK I MAKE THAT POST AS A SERIAL KILLER?

I'M SERIOUS Y'ALL WHEN I FLIP VANILLA TOWN YOU LYNCH THE GODDAMN FUCK OUT OF BERT. I PROMISE YOU HE IS FLIPPING SCUM. I PROMISE YOU.

Then, when someone voices suspicion on you, you call the suspicions plain wrong. Not "weak," not "weak because weak reasoning," but "WOW ALL OF THIS IS WRONG"

[Bert]

Also, oh my gods if you think Dr. Pants

or BBMolla

was a kill I'd make, you're fucking insane. Not when I have choice over the kill. Nope, sorry, uh uh, nope nope nope.

Wait what?? BBMolla is still alive.

[Bert]

Sorry molla, looks like you're getting SK'd tonight. gg bud

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA Yeah Molla is dying tonight!

I jumped out of my chair when I read that post about Molla being a kill.

[Bert]

Caught up. Wow, I feel so flat-lined from IRL.

unvote

for now, although I do get confused when people go the explosion route regarding emotional rampages - makes me wonder if it's manipulating without my best interests at heart, or if Tammy is playing up her town-meta to a T. Some days, I really dislike meta for that reason - it makes me lean a certain way, all the while knowing that the meta I'm giving credence to can be manipulated if the player is aware enough of how to manipulate her/his own meta.

Well, that's what Nacho always did if scum against m - AtE shamelessly. I also will answer questions tomorrow (waking up early tomorrow, then not sure what schedule is like Thurs, Fri.). It would be nice if posts with questions didn't include "bert is scum" every other sentence, because that gets old quickly.

I'm apparently hard to read lately. I have a sneaking suspicion it's because I'm going through withdrawals and that nasty crap isn't out of my system yet. I'm taking all the supplements, exercising, all that, everything via research that one can imagine to counter it or minimize symptoms. I think ETL and Antihero misreading me in 3-4 consecutive past games in the recent month or so really makes me wonder. Before, I would get really paranoid when people misread me, but I feel so...flat-lined...like a zombie.

Also, about the claims - the last game was really townsided, so I am not fond of the idea of going after the PR pool because the setup doesn't make sense (balance-wise) if the claims are true. We also are missing how powerful the SK may be, or how powerful the last remaining mafia (if he/she exists) is. The last game had 6 VT's, so that's a good place to start.

Finding out about a past Timeshift game run by the same moderator - that led to some epiphanies. I'll try to answer questions tomorrow.

[Bert]

One last thing I forgot.

Tammy if I were scum, I wouldn't let you live this long. Jeesh would be a good kill too especially given PR confirmation

WIFOM I know. In comparison - No one else is much of a threat psychologically in my head

[Bert]

Nothing to be sorry about!

Antihero was about to try the AtE tactic as scum this week to manipulate me (game just ended two days ago), but town lovers suicided before he began

That's the scum tactic that falcon employs late in games with me too. It's null because town does it too.

My case was made in a swirl of emotions. if you're town (I leaning town after catch up), I actually believed you were scum and it was some all-world epiphany - btw Nacho would get me riled up for reading purposes, by making cases that he appeared to believe in but made me scream inside lol

I wasn't trying to make a bad case. I thought you were scum and so it made sense for me to paint everything that way. The bonus is it put pressure, for better or worse

My last SK game I watched as backup mod was where Skull took the game after both scum died Day 1 and 2. Town fell apart.

Everyone is talking about lynch pools, me included, but I don't feel confident about those - especially with SK running around plus potential mafia

I can't help but speculate that one of JK and Doc is scum. Neither is x-shot or negative utility

[Bert]

Basically, Skull was the most townie until a subpar LYLO crunch time where he narrowly escaped.

That is the most dangerous concern, moreso than a single scum who has associatives available and wasn't scumhunting

[Bert]

I want someone to explain to me why they're reading PV as town.

I really wanted to ask him stuff, but then he disappears and it just kills game momentum to not get much info out of him while wagoning him. He's a prisoner of PoE like me.

Also, correct trolling Tammy response to 1922 is:

Omg wow she is scum displaying guilt about being so manipulative as scum. Omg wow

[Bert]

Not when you scum slip your guilt

See she's covering up her tracks now with self-meta like omg

[Bert]

mafia could be bert, bulba, mara, or pere, imo. I want to say pere and mara are town though

well, I think bert may be our most likely mafia, but unlikely to be sk

i think tammy is unlikely to be mafia but my best guess for sk

mathematically these are probably both bad choices

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I think we need bulba to show up

imo it's tammy bulba or bb, and bulba is the only one of those three that could conceivably also be mafia

You've proclaimed yourself to be a leader in this game. Yet outside of Tammy yesterday, you haven't immediately put the spotlight on anyone as a real scumread. Why is that? This doesn't seem like an instinctual thought process. You're covering your reads in what looks like generic commentary. None of this contains any kind of convincing tone.

My skepticism is reserved for people I'm not 95% sure on.

Because he's scum and lying? You guys realize he hasn't flipped yet, right?

What's weirder is how you expressed your Pie-scumread with certainty yesterday, even into Twilight. This makes me think Bus. If you think someone is scum, there's no reason to withhold anything until further notice.

What I would say to PR's right now is that no claims will not necessarily save you from suspicion. Even Studio is not clear by any means. I see a lack of clear signals from you.

tammy could be sk/mafia but not studio

why not?

VOTE: Anatole

You guys know the feeling of when everything about the claim fits so perfectly? Almost a too-good-to-be-true, fits too well type? This fits the bill.

Now, about Bulba and Pere. Both are caught up IRL, so activity is a null tell. Peregrine seems to be "following the tide" a lot more than Bulba.

[Bert]

I can only carry this town on my back for so long.

This was a joke?

[Bert]

What? 1-shot vest giver is a ROLE, not an ALIGNMENT

[Bert]

It's just like how in Organic Chemistry, there was an Inventor (Scum) that gave out doc protections for players to use at night.

[Bert]

It looks town, but that doesn't mean it is coming from a town mindset 100%. I don't see how it's a bad move to make if scum.

Also, it's a really good way to throw Tammy off Ceph's tracks, much like I claimed miller in Quickness for that very reason.

Plus, it's one-shot, so Tammy isn't immune forever. What scum can do is just kill her another night.

[Bert]

By the way, the Organic Chemistry I'm referring to is: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?p=5379697

[Bert]

your argument makes no sense.

studio is town

why would you assume he was telling the truth about it being 1 shot if he was mafia

I made no such assumption. 1-shot is an easier claim - makes more sense to stay alive longer, as the role is weakened by the 1-shot modifier. That way, stronger players getting killed makes sense in the whole scheme of things, as does the 1-shot giver staying alive. It's in the same vein as how a cop isn't expected to live through forever neverland. A 1-shot cop may be lying (and be a real full cop), but if scum investigates and knows that cop is 1-shot, then that person can be left alive for a very long time.

[Bert]

no, so that it makes more sense for him to stay alive and live deep into the game.

I do think Studio is town, but I feel like you took the "no one is clear here" and spun it into "Studio has to be 100% town." I'm not interested in lynching Studio, but I have every reason to be considering everyone - especially given how SK's are really tricky to find.

[Bert]

That's why I'm not going for Studio. Does Mafia having two preventive roles make sense? I haven't seen SKs be preventives either, but anything's game I guess.

regardless, I am not mafia

hehehehe you're supposed to say you're not scum (to account for SK)

which he obviously is not

what do you mean he's not hot shit as doctor????

[Bert]

I protected the Jeesh slot (Studio) n1 and n2, and I protected Tammy n3.

How do you know Bulba hasn't saved anyone?

[Bert]

Yeah, it's strange that someone knows when he/she gets shot and survives because of the vest.

Doctor protections traditionally aren't made known to the protected target, right?

I took like a 5 year break before 2012, and back then it wasn't made known.

[Bert]

So the answer is "No, it's not strange that a doctor's protections are unknown to the target, and that the target is oblivious to whether he/she was shot or not + saved."

[Bert]

Who are the liars?

[Bert]

Does that mean you have a good answer?

[Bert]

The SK will continue to scumhunt, and thus could easily take care of the last scum for us.

On the other hand, SKs are likely Bulletproof, so:

An SK seems harder to take care of. Also, another mafia is not certain to exist, depending on moderator variables. An SK most surely exists barring something extraordinary.

That's why my priority is the SK first.

[Bert]

Also, dont count on me to give any more moments of insight because I have already given mine this game

Obligatory:

[Bert]

My instinct is that there is one scum on my wagon,

And probably one off - in the 3 people townreading me (Ceph, Molla, Bulba)

Purely from an intuitive standpoint - nothing tangible. Assuming 1 mafia, 1 SK due to Defender's last game of 3:1:town

[Bert]

I believe in my Anatole read. I'm more stumped about the second scum.

Gut instinct is Peregrine. I really don't think Bulba is scum, instincts and nothing else - can't read him with any kind of confidence interval

[Bert]

We're sure on the SK and not a vig?

We completed a massclaim, and no vigilante claimed. Nor do any claimed roles/PR's explain Messiah's death. Then, we have the last Timeshift game where an SK was part of the setup. Lastly, we have Tammy claiming to have been shot on Night 2 - the night Messiah also died. The only explanation remaining is that there is a third-party role that killed Messiah.

On a side note, Anatole your new avatar is scary - like Halloween. Lol.

[Bert]

Yeah, the day is stale.

[Bert]

I sincerely want to die tonight

I don't, and I won't die outside of being lynched.

[Bert]

You're reaching.

Scum killing me is a bad idea for their chances. All you have to do is look at what wagon possibilities are being discussed, and the fact I'm a VT in a game with multiple PR claims still alive. There is a limited number of NK's they can have.

[Bert]

What if there is only an SK remaining?

What if the SK or mafia can only kill on certain nights?

[Bert]

As much as I like Mara, I'm really glad she was replaced. She was here, but she wasn't here - that slot is the definition of a dead slot.

Day had been dragging along with 3-4 of us rehashing enough as is...

[Bert]

Lol, Bert, you've had experience with me replacing into games. Do you think I would make the slot less dead?

Yes. Mara was filled with the most deep-rooted apathy that one can surmise but seldom see.

[Bert]

Yeah, there is no generic town VT role PM.

Oh hey guys, since I'm burned out and it looks like most of you are too, how about some kitties shaking in their boots:



you're so welcome omg just watch

[Bert]

I hope everyone has been taking a mental break from this game over the past few days, while indulging chocolatey brain treats!

Back to business tomorrow I think. It would be nice if we could just settle on someone...

Bert, if I'm not scum (I'm not), who are currently your choices for potential sk/mafia?

If you're actually town, then....that complicates things and that is why I need to get back into this game!

I had Peregrine/Anatole as instinctual reads the last time I made a serious post, but I'm not self-assured about any of my reads. Peregrine is not easy to read given how little he posts in general, and if both of you are town then my reads need a serious reset - in that case, my reads are way off and one of the near-universal townreads is most definitely scum (Molla or Mara's slot or Bulba).

We don't have that many mislynches to spare, and it's hard to earn any type of moral victories when the odds are stacked against a scum lynch today.

[Bert]

I would say my biggest concern is that scum is/are playing really well, and so the easy-ish targets Anatole and PV (lurking) are actually town.

[Bert]

Although, I read some of his iso in wakes game and he seemed more proactive there then he was here.

I haven't looked at Wake's game before, but Anatole has been proactive here. I'm guessing you meant he is way more proactive here than he was there (backwards).

See that's just re-inflaming my bb paranoia that ipie was going GAWDZ WHY WONT YOU LYNCH MOLLA as some last minute distancing.

I can't tell if iPie was trying to make it seem like he/she was distancing from his/her buddy to set up Molla for a mislynch. My instinct is that it was to set up Molla for a mislynch, but who knows...ugh

Although it was possible Anatole was bussing ipie.

This seems really likely - Anatole and iPie cross-bussing hard (kind of like T-Bone and Falcon in Wicked).

This makes a lot of sense. I hate not knowing if there is another mafia member remaining.

I think Doctor + Jailkeeper both town is really, really strong. Like, an even-night or weak doctor or bodyguard or something along with a town JK would make much more sense, but that's just me. Which makes me inclined to just lynch through Bulba/Anatole, but that's REALLY dangerous WIFOM to navigate. There was this Natirasha game (Parole 1543 Mini), where this happened and a scum Nurse claimed Nurse, and MafiaSSK (town doctor) claimed doc. I believe that the Nurse was pushed to claim D1, and then SSK eventually claimed D2 at Lynch -1 as well. Nurse ended up being lynched after scumslipping, and then Doc got nightkilled. I guess my point is that it makes so much more sense for one of them to be scum.

This reminds me so much of that game.

[Bert]

Spoiler: setup

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 6#p4759486

D3f3nd3r
Mafia Scum

User avatar
Joined : March 25, 2012
Pronoun: He

Post Post #733 (isolation #41) » Sun Mar 03, 2013 5:16 pm
Role Player

Mafia:
1 Goon: SoraAdvent
1 Encryptor: Goodmorning
1 1-shot Strongman: Guille2015

Town:
1 Role Cop: Human Destroyer
1 Jailkeeper: Xalxe
1 Tracker: Keybladewielder
6 VTs: Leviathan93
PeregrineV
Regfan
Lastsurvivor
Sucrose
Cogito Ergo Sum

3rd Party:
1 Timeshifting Serial Killer: Lurker
(Abilities: regular NK; 1-shot Timeshifted kill; 1-shot Global Timeshift; 1-shot BP)

Role PMs: To get a role's Role PM, take the stuff for "All", their faction, and their role.

All: Welcome to Timeshift Mafia! Remember that all night actions submitted will not go into effect until the next night due to the timeshift.

Town: You are a member of the town. You win when all threats to the town are eliminated.
Mafia: You are a member of the mafia. Your partners are (___________, a Goon, __________, an Encryptor, and __________, a 1-Shot Strongman). While the Encryptor is alive, you may talk in http://www.quicktopic.com/48/H/6rdi6T7XCnuG at any time; if he is dead, you many only talk at night. You win when all of the town is eliminated, or nothing can prevent this.
Serial Killer: You are a Serial Killer. You have a regular Nightkill, one kill not effected by the timeshift, and one time where all actions take place on the day they are submitted. In addition, the first attempt on your life will be negated. You win when you are the last man standing, or nothing can prevent this.

Goon: You have no other abilities, but you are allowed to perform the Nightkill.
Encryptor: You are also an Encryptor. While you are alive, your Mafia team may talk during the Day. When you die, your Mafia team will only be able to talk at Night.
Strongman: You also have a 1-Shot Strongman kill. When you say to, but only once, your kill will be unable to be protected by any other role.
Role Cop: You are also a Role Cop. Each night, you can choose a player to learn their role. You will not learn their faction, and will receive Vanilla for any player without a night ability.
Tracker: You are also a Tracker. Each night, you can target a player to see who he targeted that night.
Jailkeeper: You are also a Jailkeeper. Each Night, you may imprison a player. When doing so, that player will be protected from all kills and will be unable to perform any actions.
Vanilla: You have no other abilities, but you do have your vote. Use it wisely!

All: Game thread is at viewtopic.php?f=23&t=25018. Confirm via PM.

[Bert]

Also, the one-shot vest giver is technically a protective role too, so that's three total protective claims.

[Bert]

That wasn't a defense and isn't a reason to townread or scumread me.

[Bert]

I don't remember...

But I do remember that deadline is Thursday at 6 PM EST, which is less than 48 hours away.

My poodle says "Skedaddle."

If I had an emotionless emoticon to post, now would be a perfect time to use it.

[Bert]

We all deserve standing ovations.

[Bert]

Oh, my dog can't fetch. He doesn't understand the word "share."

I really wanna send him to doggie training school.

Kittie school must exist, right?

[Bert]

Common gambit.

It's completely null.

[Bert]

It'd actually be against your wincon to be voting yourself as mafia or SK so...there's that. Not modkill worthy unless it was the hammer but still. Not awesome as either alignment when we're talking about mylo/lylo situations approaching.

I also don't know how anyone would arrive at the conclusion that if AK flipped town and there are two kills tonight that Bulb would be confirmed town...

It is true that scum may have prevented a Bulb jailkeep (assuming Anatole-town) if they have the capability to

[Bert]

Tammy, please pick someone!

[Bert]

I'm in a zero-content rut...

are we really going to head to a NL?

[Bert]

I'll compromise on quite a few wagons.

[Bert]

No, hence my "zero-content rut?"

I would go with Mara and Molla in that case?

[Bert]

I really really want to say Peregrine but he just lurks in my last few past games with him...I don't know!

[Bert]

Never mind, my revised prediction if Anatole is town is Bulba/Peregrine! I really shouldn't be posting because I have nothing else to add, unless you want me to shout off the top of my lungs for everyone to come in and vote?

[Bert]

both scum, you asked me for two scum

[Bert]

i will not fall for the trap of "bulba claimed a similar role after that somewhat comparable role was claimed, and scum wouldn't stack the odds against themselves that way"

[Bert]

I'm so tempted to vote PereV you have no idea

Based off of claims I would say that the JK one is legit because why claim a potentially provable role that reflects what a mafia roleblocker might claim?

A 2-shot mafia roleblocker already flipped

[Bert]

Can someone sum up the last 6 pages? Unless anything changed, still want out of Bulba/Mara/Bert, Molla & Anatole are town through play, Tammy/Studio are town via claims.

If I didn't read who posted this, I would think it's Mara because this is exactly what Mara sounded like!

[Bert]

VOTE: PeregrineV

[Bert]

IMO, let Doc/JK live tonight, Doc protect JK, JK jail someone scummy. BP insta vest Doc if able.

This, minus the insta-vest part.

[Bert]

Spoiler: Wake88/Metal Sonic/House Targaryen slot claim

We tracked Jeesh. Either they're scum and targeted someone, or their claim is real and we'd be able to see if they passed a vest to someone and their role would be confirmed. Jeesh said they forgot, so if they didn't take an action like it seems they were saying, we'd get no result and they'd be telling the truth.

~xofelf

Fate has decided to make me a Tracker yet again. I curse your teeth, Fate.

House Targaryn didn't do anything Night 1.

I also received a last wish from Metal Sonic: "track jeesh5 as a suggestion."

Make of it what you will. A Doctor's protection and a bowl of beef stew tonight, please.

Our vest giving was instantaneous (not delayed), we gave it last night. No one lied.

vest

[Bert]

Also, since it seems everyone ignored my wishes to avoid a massclaim, and I need to claim to lynch Anatole-scum, I am the doctor. I crumbed to Mollie d1, although I don't think she got it and took advantage of what I was offering:

I am a Timeshifted Jailkeeper.

I submitted the action the night before each of these was resolved.

in order of resolution: pie (night 2), molla (night 3), bulba (night 4 (has not yet occurred))

[Bert]

Singer's slot (previously occupied by Marangal and Kazekirimaru)

We are VT

and the slip was intentional.

VT here, for the record.

I am vanilla town.

[Bert]

Tammy and Studio are sticking with their medium strength townread on Mara, and have been all game

[Bert]

are we going to get a lynch in 3 hours 16 minutes or not?

[Bert]

I'd really like to not lynch the claimed JK? Please? Tomorrow will theoretically have the information needed to parse through them.

Anatole and I are willing to vote PV. I am currently voting PV.

A non-mafia killing role.

massclaim was done a while back and no non-mafia killing role claimed

[Bert]

pere you will save us a lot of trouble at this point if you just say you're vig

Lol@Molla, Anatole- not claiming vig, although I will speculate on who I would have shot if I were. Messiah (good shot!), Pie, Mara.

If I were cop, Bulba, Molla, kcadspot/Bert.

If I were doc, Jeesh, Jeesh, Jeesh/Tammy.

PV is claiming Vig I think

[Bert]

We're sure on the SK and not a vig? Been only 1 kill a night except Messiah dead.

This was

after

massclaim was over.

[Bert]

Lol this game.

[Bert]

if Pere is really a vig, the scenario where it makes sense for him to withhold vig-status is if he's actually an even-night Vig (instantaneous), as Night 4 is coming up.

it's really fantastic that the vig claim came less than 3 hours until DL. Just wonderful like wow i am just applauding i am so happy and gracious for the opportunity to see that claim when we had been SK hunting all day long like wow so doge

[Bert]

studio voting anatole

bulba, bert voting peregrine

singer voting bbmolla

that's it

[Bert]

peregrine voting bert

tammy and anatole and bbmolla not voting

[Bert]

I guess I was also under the impression that there was a massclaim, which doesn't seem to be the case.

there was, and peregrine claimed VT.

[Bert]

I played in Timeshift 1. By played, I mean I died night1 in a timeshifted game, along with another VT. Don't remember the details, but I believe there is instant stuff out there, and one of the reasons the insta-vest role made sense.

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=25018

VT here, for the record.

[Bert]

I'm not down with a policy lynch

he was about to be lynched, and then he changed his claim to vig. that's not the same as a policy lynch. policy lynch as a phrase is thrown around too much these days imo :C

if there is no SK then we know for a fact bulba hasn't saved anyone

what's your conclusion

[Bert]

So, lynching you, Singer or Bert should REALLY solve the problem, right?

lynching down the list - what if there's no scum in there and this 5 person townblock is wrong? then game over.

Don't think anybody thought you were a PR until you claimed. You've had votes on you most of day2 and day3.

i don't see the relation here. how does "lots of people voting said PR" make you think others wouldn't think Anatole is a PR? A player under pressure is just as likely to be a PR as any other player not under pressure

[Bert]

ok.

im not opposed to a no lynch, which is something i stated a week ago when we were still under the impression that there was 100% an SK alive

it confirms bulba somewhat (outside paranoia) if we operate under the assumption that anatole is town JK, but this even number 8 alive thing is annoying though. even if scum JK, then that means bulba town

scum can totally no kill and frame bulba though soooooooooo

[Bert]

You've said or done nothing to dispute or change my mind about my townbloc, the 3 listed are scummy and haven't done much to change that opinion, plus they have done nothing previously to townbloc them, so confidence is high.

this coming from the guy who for the last 14 or 24 pages asks for a recap of the last 6-8 preceding pages.

[Bert]

i just ctrl + fed for the word "summary" and got a ton of hits. have you read thee game? because there are a lot of things you havent commented on.

Spoiler:

Can we get one of them fancy vote summary thingies?

summa

Can someone sum up the last 6 pages? Unless anything changed, still want out of Bulba/Mara/Bert, Molla & Anatole are town through play, Tammy/Studio are town via claims.

Limited Access until Tuesday July 15

Yeah, *&#%ed that up

Limited Access until Tuesday July 22

Officially back today, but piled up work. Checking in.

Could have done without the 5 prior pages.

I don't understand the resistance to a massclaim, even if we have a serial killer.

We're down two scum. If we don't have a serial killer, we're only looking for one more person.

Also, if someone claims vig, and someone not claiming vig would give us a whole hell of a lot of information, if the game's not over when we lynch the third mafia, then we know it's a serial killer. Messiah Complex did not shoot himself, and if it's a vig, they have no reason not to claim that shot.

It gives us more information on the setup that way. I didn't say anything about a missing kill last night, but Bulba jumping to that makes me think if there is a serial killer then he's probably it and something happened to his shot.

There was only one death last night, which means either the vig is one-shot or something happened to their kill or they're a sk with an errant shot.

Mafia has ALREADY made their choice for who they killed last night, so it's not like they can go back and change it and kill someone different if someone claims something the mafia would rather have dead. They'll still be here.

If we have a better understanding of the setup, then maybe we can finish this today, unless there's a serial killer and our hunt will still go on.

Also, think about it. If it's a serial killer, he has no real interest in lynching the final mafia because then he's out there alone for the rest of the game. He'll want the last mafia around so that he has a better shot of winning the game.

I just don't see any downside whatsoever.

I know you don't like hearing this, but THIS is the Tammy I like.

Targeted pie, molla, and bulba. Feel free to confirm/deny if you've had your shit blocked, bb and bulba.

On page 64...7 pages of goodness?

[Bert]

they would have had to submit a nokill last night though

never mind, yeah no lynch is good with me then

[Bert]

a lot of my posts are half-frustration from voting and pressuring several people because I thought they might be SK. It was a total waste of time now that I know they couldnt have been an SK.

[Bert]

I don't feel like you understand how bad withholding that vig info is. You if town were prepared to watch us SK hunt until your death???

[Bert]

I'm here mobile on store wifi until DL/twilight tonight fwiw

Not that well actuall get a lynch today or anything lol

[Bert]

I feel like I just discovered "street" mafia

This made me laugh.

[Bert]

Well, 22 minutes until a long twilight and night.

Even numbers make lynches that much more difficult to achieve.

[Bert]

VOTE: Anatole

That's me Bulbazak and Studio. L-2

This vote is a formality in the improbable event that Peregrine and Tammy vote Anatole in 20 minutes.

Which won't happen with Pere's townread, etc.

[Bert]

No you have 20 minutes. 6 PM EST. It's 4:40 central here, so 20 more mins.

[Bert]

OH my fucking gods.

THERE WAS EVIDENCE FOR AN SK BECAUS ONCE A FUCKING GAIN YOU DECIDED TO PLAY STUPID AND LIE ABOUT YOUR FUCKING ROLE.

Jeezuz fuck its like you never ever get it even game after gameof people getting frustrated over the way you refuse to be honest about your role, outright lie or just be cagey.

When everybody else tells you you tucked up it might just be because uou did.

I'll be happy to argue more about P2 & P3 post-game, but WHY was there evidence for an SK but not evidence for a VIG?

Why was there any evidence for anything other than a 1-shot vig?

You can't say "Same setup as last time" because it's already not.

Three protective role claims. No one knows what kills if any were prevented

[Bert]

no, 1v1ing sounds like the dumbest and most selfish thing to do in a team game where every life counts

Even if both you and Bulba flips town, it would be 1 vs. 3 in 4p

Still not game over, assuming no SK.

I still am shocked we went "peregrine if you don't claim vig you're dying" and only that extracted the vig claim

Pretty unbelievable how today went. But yeah 13 of 14 days worth of productivity shattered with our SK theories

[Bert]

Yeah or mafia making up the SK kill.

[Bert]

no, 1v1ing sounds like the dumbest and most selfish thing to do in a team game where every life counts

Even if both you and Bulba flips town, it would be 1 vs. 3 in 4p

Still not game over, assuming no SK.

I still am shocked we went "peregrine if you don't claim vig you're dying" and only that extracted the vig claim

Pretty unbelievable how today went. But yeah 13 of 14 days worth of productivity shattered with our SK theories

and if it's bulba, singer, pere, bert at that point, how confident is the town really?

I don't see how town should feel confident at any point before game's end

[Bert]

Mod looks to be online, so this is it!

P-edit: ok I see your point

[Bert]

When this game is over, this day will probably be scrutinized as the most critical

[Bert]

Yeah evens.

Not as bad as it seems

[Bert]

Studio 54, Town Timeshifted 1-Shot Bulletproof-Vest-Giver, was killed Night 4.

Day 5 begins. Deadline is 8/10 at 8am EDT.

A Timeshifted modifier. Wake didn't have "Timeshifted" before "tracker."

In 1411 Timeshift, Mafia did not have the modifier, whereas SK did.

[Bert]

Pete's flip is most informative about the likelihood of full Doc + JK

[Bert]

what if he's mafia who claimed vig knowing that an sk wouldn't counter claim him?

yeah his actions dont make sense for vig with all the misinformation

[Bert]

Bert might be scum, his content today has been shit btw

lol

I've heard that before, in that Vengeball game that ended last week. I haven't even started going over the game, so why are you already judging lol

[Bert]

what if he's mafia who claimed vig knowing that an sk wouldn't counter claim him?

this has crossed everyone's minds

except those that believe Pere's vig claim full-on and are wearing tinted glasses (two players)

[Bert]

Bert might be scum, his content today has been shit btw

lol

I've heard that before, in that Vengeball game that ended last week. I haven't even started going over the game, so why are you already judging lol

Oh, and also, you didn't bring this up on Day 2 or 3 or 4 when I had the same type of content. You had me as a mysterious "I think Bert is town."

[Bert]

yeah 2 hours in during a 14 day game day. You twiddled your thumbs for most of the last game day...because of the excuse "Tammy and Studio won't vote Mara so I'm sitting here."

I've also been playing marathons while posting here fwiw.

[Bert]

this is like an extension of yesterday's game state, with no more flips other than a night kill. If there's something else to discuss, feel free because right now it's setup speculation, and it has been that way with the lack of a flip for the last....17+ days.

Literally we went over everything there is, and today's discussion has been mostly setup speculation as well, and you're helping out in that.

[Bert]

now it's up to you to quote any content that "hasn't been shit" from me in past game days. They are few and far between if you can find any, considering how much fluff/spam I've posted in 300+ posts. Your timing is really suspicious. However, it's essentially up to Tammy whether I get lynched today. Anatole and Pere will vote me easily. Singer and Bulba have townreads on me. She tips the scales pretty much, so good luck with that. My lynch wasn't possible yesterday with Ceph still here.

[Bert]

I am not great at detecting sarcasm, but that's it right there lol.

Being defensive is not content at all. Did you even read what I posted yesterday? My stances don't need to be rehashed. We had like 40 pages worth of a Day 4. I want Anatole gone, and PereV gone. I can quote what I said about them. I pushed Tammy yesterday, but I changed my mind.

[Bert]

Considering how hard it was to get any sort of wagon going yesterday, it's deflating to sit here another day with nothing more to talk about aside from the massclaim.

[Bert]

@Anatole: who'd you jailkeep? I'm surprised you didn't mention that in passing - a 3 word post would clear that up

Does strong arm kills reach past a jailkeeper?

Molla didn't answer this!

[Bert]

VOTE: Anatole

[Bert]

PV Anatole and molla will most likely be alive tomorrow since all of us under PoE

So I'm pretty much the lynch tomorrow.

Also no energy atm to respond to anything really

Didn't Anatole say PoE was down to me and Bulba yesterday? If so then you seem so undecided still without a vote...

[Bert]

If we lynch Anatole or PV or molla though, then i might squeak out a potential tomorrow

I feel like we are in LYLO even though we have a decent chance of winning.


The "well never find scum" feeling permeates in my brain
I am a Debbie downer sorry

Mobile

[Bert]

I'm good with your lynch

PV is my alternative

[Bert]

Yeah but like...she apparently can't make a decision? I dunno, with what limited experience I have with her, I'd probably keep her alive as scum. And not worth protecting as town? No offense, but unless it was lylo, probably wouldn't bother.

LOL. I might be offended at your digs if you weren't so transparent.

Remember ure low priority and easily manipulated?

[Bert]

I'm good with your lynch

PV is my alternative

This was t anatole

[Bert]

It felt like he she they knew Bulba was town

Also the lack of conviction for a wagon she he they "believe" in, in me... Is weird 2

[Bert]

bert we've come along way from when I was accused of "buddying" you. never forget the good times

Dats wut makes ur weird push that came only after I voted you, really disingenuous

[Bert]

Ana Avoiding the Bulba lynch yesterday and talking to him as if he's town before his Jk even goes through

Is like how a scum neighbor avoids lynches out of four neighbors
. The power/fear of PoE

[Bert]

bert you were on my list before I was on yours, check my iso

I was in your PoE list of three

I voted u and then u voted me for the first time right back

[Bert]

Also Jking someone like PV or molla narrows down scum lynch choices

There's already a doc...

It's not like Tammy is in need of clearing

[Bert]

Remind me why you read me as town for three game days?

Because your reasoning was extremely vague

Flip flop makes no sense.

[Bert]

"Stong WKin townread" to "big scumread"

Ure I was "not paying attention to Bert" excuse is ughhhhhh

I don't buy that

[Bert]

without an SK, you and studio are both conf-town, and I figured bulba would doc studio, didn't want to block bulba if he really was doctor, which I knew we would get an answer on today

The scum if ure town know u exist and Bulba-if-town exists, so killin Tammy is a big risk with two protective claims

If one protectve claim is scum, then it easy to roleblock the real town pr and claim results to fit actions

Unless u think Tammy is scum what's ure point for the action since u said she's conftown

[Bert]

but there's literally no other choice besides mara now

? That slot if town is still alive because it's been mostly a dead lurker slot before singer

Molla is an option and is not conftown

PV is an option

?

[Bert]

bert, like I said, I didn't pay you much attention and you didn't seem like an obvious partner or obvious bus from either of the other two scum flips

Why would you not pay attention to me but still call me strong town?

Backtracking is sooooo dubious lol

[Bert]

bert, like I said, I didn't pay you much attention and you didn't seem like an obvious partner or obvious bus from either of the other two scum flips

i never see a reason other than "bert has looked town the past few pages" Day 1/2/3, to "bert has looked scummy the past couple of pages." it's like you're just trying to plant seeds of paranoia in people's minds.

Then, jailkeeping Tammy instead of narrowing down our scumsearch for us or potentially jailing the last scum. You didn't think Bulba was likelier scum than me or Mara, yet you jailed him. Then Tammy. You jailed the strongest townread, when you if town JK are most likely to die via scum. AFter all, Bulba protected Tammy and said he would do as such, AND he has you as a big scumread.


I literally just read your entire ISO and read for ANY type of reasoning on me other than PoE. And there has been no real stance from you aside from Pie. I asked you today again to elaborate on your read on me, and still no real explanation.

Spoiler:

I had Bert there because I was narrowing down Pie's town "reads" with knowledge we have. I don't see Bert as especially townie or scummy yet, just saying he would make sense as scum in the context of my above theory working backwards from Pie's list.

The ones I crossed out either would have received very strong bussing, had a night interaction that points to town, or has flipped.

Bulba, Mara, and Bert are my potential lynches, but I'd agree with you that Bulba and Mara are more likely than Bert.

This "suspicion" of me was based on Pie's town reads. Enough said!

I think logically speaking there is probably a mafia member between Marangal, Bert, Bulba then, because I have a strong town read on P5.

alright, I'll be honest, I don't even think I'm going to end up catching up in this game. this is what I get for falling too far behind. I'll try and skim starting from d2 and get my bearings back.

restating my reads from the last time I looked at the game thoroughly:

P5: town
Jeesh: town

Messiah: town

MsKaze: town
Bulba: town

Anatole: townish

Pie later tries desperately to get me lynched, poor guy

Kcda: townish

leaving MS (now

Targaryen

),

Pants

,

Bane

, and Molla as null or scummyish reads (notably Bane as my scummiest read, although tbh I forget why I thought he was scummy exactly.)

vote Bane

- placeholder til I get caught up

I would like to posit that the third mafia member is likely in that group of town/townish reads or null reads. Pie tries to get me killed, and tries for molla to a lesser degree.

If we're believing the vest story from Studio, which I do, we can eliminate jeesh from the list.

Pie's "reads" with strikethroughs for the ones that don't add up for being his partner or are already dead and color added for confirmed alignments:

P5: town

Jeesh: town

Messiah: town

MsKaze: town
Bulba: town

Anatole: townish

Kcda: townish

Molla:

null/scummish?

Bane:

null/scum?

That leaves us with Marangal, Bert, Bulba, and P5, whoever that is.

No real stance.

or we can lynch marangal who has checked out pretty much and denies coasting. lol.

I've gone back and forth between Mara and Bulba, but I think this is the right choice. I would quote the other posts I made at the beginning of the day as evidence, but I'm too lazy and this shit has been rehashed ad infinitum anyways.

VOTE: Ms Marangal

Back and forth between Mara and Bulba, without stating why.

You've played a timeshift game before?

I see honest frustration. A townie with shitty contribution is still a town, just ask Anatole Kuragin. It's still one corpse closer to a loss if we mislynch her.

does that apply to your strong townread on Peregrine?

Who is scum?

Bert, Bulba, or Mara. I have ten days to figure out which. I still have a townread on Pere if that's what you're asking.

Townie with shitty contribution = town? That's the only real reasoning I've seen in your posts aside from setup related speculation. Also never "figures out which" with any type of reasoning

Oh, I was asking Anatole.

Even worse if there is a sk - I'm pretty sure the last time shift game had one.

Well, if the kills start aligning with these suspicions, then yeah...

Given how SK is used frequently on this site, I could see one in this setup too with that scum flip. It comes down to X-shot Vig or SK for that kill unless there's another explanation.

P-edit: But I thought you see "honest frustration" in Mara's posts lately.

I do - I also see towniness in Bulba's posts. These just dissuade me from locking a vote in immediately - I'm not giving either of them a "townread."

No real stance on Mara. Still no explanation from earlier Mara vote. Also, Mara vote is hypocritical given how Anatole went "a shitty contributing townie = still town, just ask Anatole." Doesn't explain what towniness he sees in Bulba's posts

Town as fuck
Tammy
Bert

Town
BBmolla
Marangal

Literally forgot you were in the game again
PV

Lynch these
Anatole
Bulbazak

Why is bert town af?

Studio?

Asks to see how likely I am to be lynched, without having proclaimed real suspicion of me just yet.

Tammy, would you have pushed for a bert lynch today if not for his posts in the last hour or two?

Another asking about me, without saying why. Just gauging without voicing suspicion on me.

I could totally see bert being mafia, but I still think tammy is sk.

I mean, mafia at this point probably want sk dead more than we do

well, I think bert may be our most likely mafia, but unlikely to be sk

i think tammy is unlikely to be mafia but my best guess for sk

mathematically these are probably both bad choices

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I think we need bulba to show up

Says mathematically I am a bad choice, but doesn't explain why.

mafia could be bert, bulba, mara, or pere, imo. I want to say pere and mara are town though

VOTE: bert

tammy suitably convinced me I was an idiot for voting her

bulba may be lying

still thinking pere, mara, bb are town, and I'm almost certain studio is

bert or bulba should die today. confident at least one of them is scum, maybe both

Again, no stances. Just a whole wad of "it could be A, B, C or D."

why do you think mara is more likely to turn up scum than bert?

bulb you are tunnelvisioned right now and reaching

your first points about your merit as a doc have been addressed if you read the thread

Obviously someone is lying, and you have been less of a townread than any other player still alive aside from bert all game, and your claim was convenient so it makes sense it could be you. I also pointed out that it makes sense to have a doc. why can't it make sense and still be an opportunistic, potentially false claim?

I WANT to believe your claim is true, and accepted it pretty quickly. if tammy is town it makes you less likely to be, though

didn't realize bb had claimed when I did

and why would I look for your other site activity or even give a shit? I just wanted some more eyes on the game

it basically boils down to the fact that I feel bert is more likely to be scum, as I started getting more of a town vibe from you today, bulba.

also, I don't feel pressure bro

again, still no explanation why I'm most likely to be scum.

no, 1v1ing sounds like the dumbest and most selfish thing to do in a team game where every life counts

Even if both you and Bulba flips town, it would be 1 vs. 3 in 4p

Still not game over, assuming no SK.

I still am shocked we went "peregrine if you don't claim vig you're dying" and only that extracted the vig claim

Pretty unbelievable how today went. But yeah 13 of 14 days worth of productivity shattered with our SK theories

and if it's bulba, singer, pere, bert at that point, how confident is the town really?

VOTE: bert

thanks for reminding me

No elaborating. No reasoning still.

The jail is suspicious - makes perfect sense for scum to do that so that the lynch pool doesn't dwindle. Tammy is clearly not in anybody's lynch pool. On top of that, Bulba claimed to be protecting Tammy.

[Bert]

Today:

you were in my PoE list of three along with two people, one of which I felt was townie and the other I have gone back and forth non-stop. bert has been my only constant suspicion, but until the whole business with the tammy/sk stuff I didn't pay enough attention to you I guess

bert we've come along way from when I was accused of "buddying" you. never forget the good times

still no explanation about how my play is scummy as compared to Day 2/3 when you had me as town and were accused of buddying me.

coupled with your super confidence after Pie was lynched that Pie would flip scum (again, without real reasoning), this does not look good

[Bert]

yeah, I've been back and forth more than I realized - I don't see how indecisiveness is an inherently scummy trait -

if you really read through my posts it's not manufactured confusion, I just honestly found it hard to get strong reads aside from a few townies and one scum so far and it's still difficult.

it's been a really confusing game and it's hard for me to believe as town I'm getting tunneled this hard by two people (bert and bulba) and one of them isn't scum. we know bulba isn't

this still doesn't answer my question out of why I'm most likely scum out of everyone

[Bert]

Molla isn't clear because Messiah could have submitted the kill Night 2 (the kill that resolved Night 3)

[Bert]

I jailkeepered tammy last night. I didn't read the thread at all, just saw it was day and wanted to mention I was v/la in case I couldn't get a real post in tonight.

if there isn't an sk, bulba isn't scum, regardless of how anti-town he is being. I jailkept him and studio still died.

bulba you are going to be seriously embarrassed at the end of this game

Sounds townish.

Appeal to pride is townish?

[Bert]

There is none.

Mara is being townread for the way she claimed (which I don't understand), the way Kaze replaced out (scum pride - except he replaced out as scum in my old newbie - I see where Tammy is coming from though) and for meta reasons (which I don't agree with, but that's that). She really just coasted/lurked and was becoming a huge liability.

All of which are extremely circumstantial. I almost got sucked into townreading them after this stuff was repeated 500 times yesterday. Mara was busy, but she doesn't like playing scum anyways. She does however have pride in her scumgame, but all of this is null. Based on play, that slot is lynchable.

Singer's posts seem timid, but still comes off more sincere and willing to put him/herself in a position to be criticized (see the Tammy comment for instance).

Mara actually gave scattered bits of reasoning as to why she read me as scum.

Therefore, I'd like to lynch Anatole, who is just townreading everyone except me (so many memories of Mala in that Wicked game here townreading everyone), and then complains of being "tunneled" while tunneling me and hiding vote reasons as to why I'm scummier than Mara and everyone else. There's nothing else behind his/her votes.

I still think Peregrine is some sort of SK (limited). It would make sense with all these protective roleclaims (including 1 flip) floating around too. Anatole believing PereV's vig claim so easily makes me really, really uneasy on top of that.

Oh and Anatole, if I'm not scum, who is? I'd like to see you in the firing line - let's see your stances past me assuming you see me flip town. No waiting for tomorrow to see those. What next if that happens? After all, you're townreading everybody and saying Bulba and I's tunnels are ridiculous.

[Bert]

you probably think it's down to either you or me

based on the current outlook of the town

Wow, I have no words!

I'll take:

Peregrine for 500, Alex?
Mara's slot for 500?
Molla's slot for 500?

[Bert]

bulba's tunnels ARE ridiculous. I don't think yours necessarily are. they are anti-town, because I think on some level

if you ARE town, which I find less likely than bb and singer being

, you probably think it's down to either you or me based on the current outlook of the town

I don't see how Bulba's tunnel is more ridiculous than mine. Is it just because you know he's practically conf-town based on your "clear?" I'm probably the only one likely person/lynch you can go for and have a chance for success. That's the only reason I can see you saying stuff like the bolded.

Again, you haven't answered why I'm scummy at all.

[Bert]

bulba, just admit your reads this game have been off. I'm not trying to discredit you as a player but you are obviously misguided this game.

why wouldn't I try to discredit you when I know 100% you are wrong and have been before? there is actual proof that you can't read scumminess in this game and I know you are reading me wrong.

discrediting you will help save us another mislynch

pray tell, please tell me this is a sarcasm-riddled post and is a total joke.

[Bert]

I'm just tired of using the word AtE after 30000 times

[Bert]

This game reminds me of that VisCon game where Shadoweh and Desperado and Mara and Qwints were scum.

The endlessness of the days after 2 early scum deaths. The early scum night death. The no lynch day that lasted forever. The list goes on...

[Bert]

Mara's empty push feels the same as the one in VisCon. The same meta argument.

[Bert]

Bert in Left 4 Dead 2 Mafia, I was a cop. I fake claimed that I was recieving Amnesiac Cop reports for the first two nights. The third night I checked town, and to authenticate my claim said I recieved no report that night.

PeregrineV said he had recieved a report from an amnesiac cop with a guilty on me. We lynched him.

He was town.

Sheeeeeet

What????? This makes me think lying town here

What!!!!

[Bert]

I'm starting to feel some semblance of normalcy again; it has been a long month. I don't believe all of the claimed roles. My feeling is PereV is either SK or lying town. That flip tells us the most, because if town or Mafia claiming vig to save himself -> then that means there are too many claimed PRs. If SK, then I feel better about all the claims.

The full JK and Doc just doesn't make sense with a limited 2-shot roleblocker, in particular + the 1-shot BP vest giver. In a sense, this game also reminds me of FakeGod's old games because FakeGod made a bunch of negative utility town roles and had town unhealthily lynching people based on setup speculation. What makes me doubt everything is - last game was way too scumsided, according to whomever in this game said they played in that last Timeshift. I don't know, something is up. Then there's the trouble coming up with a consensus on who to lynch, just like that VisCon game.

[Bert]

I hope your exams go well! I think you or Bulba or someone should just climb up the ladder and lead/direct for the rest of the game. This game's missing that element.

[Bert]

You're only scum if PV is too

Unless PV is mafia saving his own team's chances via claim and covering up for the real SK in the same breath during yesterday's PV wagon

I don't like lynching singer. Something tells me she not scum.

Say it ain't so!

[Bert]

Since this makes absolutely no sense, please elaborate.

Yes it does! You're not confirmed 1-shot vig! And if you're scum and not a 1-shot Vig/SK, then there's 99% an SK out there! That's really exciting!

Actually, most of this post makes little to no sense. Start at the beginning and walk through it step by step.

I have a proposal without a ring.

Hi guys let's all hold hands and walk through this game!



Let this become the cheerleading thread!

[Bert]

I'm not discrediting his play in general, just his play in this particular game. because it's bad

Bad? Because he's scumreading you for several reasons, he's bad? There is no irrefutable evidence on your side.

I'm still having problems accepting all claimed roles as town though.

Anatole, you're being really accepting of all claimed roles as town and are in the minority on that.

Earlier, you said everyone disagrees with Bulba:

and yes, that is weak reasoning and everyone in the game disagrees with you

That's not true, and in fact it's the opposite.

Do you think he's going to shelve his scumread on you based on you telling him to stop discrediting you?

[Bert]

Dinner's getting cold

/mobile

[Bert]

I think that's the read I feel best about.

Another similarity is how Llamarble had a lot of confusion N1 because something didn't make sense - and it ended up being multiball. This came to mind again after Molla's last post without any expressed scumreads. Here, all the lack of real scumreads signals something fishy is up IMHO. True story is I almost addressed you as Mina in my last post...wasn't paying enough attention on my mobile. AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

I'm pretty disheartened because I don't have any real scumreads

I'm surprised you said my name when mentioning my lack of content this day phase, but you've glossed over Peregrine. This day phase, by your standards he hasn't expressed a smidgen of belief about anyone being scum and did the classic "let's walk through the game, help me out" thing that lots of players do. No meandering in his posts or anything, no new perspectives.

[Bert]

I gave you crap for bad content

just to be crystal clear there wasn't any content dude unless setup spec counts

[Bert]

do we have a winner?

omg i hope its me

im so stoked

[Bert]

So molla...give me some insight. How do you feel about PV? How do you feel about everything? What makes me scum?

I think this will be my last post tonight because I'm being facetious and plus I had a draft written where I wrote Mina instead of Tammy.

[Bert]

Singer could be scum based on Mara, but I feel bad about Quickness and for sentimental reasons I keep wanting to stray away from that.

Yeah, I just said that.

Man, can we just pick one of Anatole or PV and go with it? This game needs some infusion of new info. 28 days is something something. Something yeah.

I think we should just take Tammy's dinner away.

Some players have this "I can't survive out here anymore. Please let me into the Dead QT" frustration that's really clear. That would fit with a self-vote. Anatole's self-vote did not seem ANYTHING like that.

[Bert]

VOTE: PeregrineV

Busy. Tomorrow.

[Bert]

I'm just really annoyed with this whole distraction at this point.

With all due respect to PV, yup.

I have to admit that I do feel like lynching Peregrine will give us a bit more of a grasp on the game.

Yup.

[Bert]

I wonder if it's possible we're out of mafia and are just looking for the sk? Hrm.

I thought of this too. It's weird to see experienced players like you and Molla be so confused as to who might actually be scum, with townreads of some degree on everyone else. As I've mentioned before, this game reminds me of VisCon because Llamarble had similar difficulties - with it being unknown to town that they were dealing with multiball).

[Bert]

Pie was obviously full of WIFOM the day she/he got lynched. I feel like we just need to pretend Pie never said anything in Twilight about Molla or anything. It's brainwashing to take anything out of it.

[Bert]

Timeshifting mechanics create a sense of intrigue, but most every scenario has been explored.

[Bert]

@PV: You have yet to address my concerns or questions past a "Nuh-uh!" response.

Yeppers.

[Bert]

I dunnooooo

what's wrong?

[Bert]

i dont know where to begin with Anatole and PereV

saying nothing is better than saying something when talking to separation walls that are on the border for keeping town at bay

my head is already flat enough guys

<3

and yeah been taking a mental break from this game, but discussing stuff is kinda in vain sooooooooooo

hi!

[Bert]

Molla, revote. This needs to die today. Singer, you may stop posturing and hammer at any time now.

preach

tear scum aparttttt

[Bert]

Well that escalated quickly

[Bert]

Peregrine needs to go today. If he does this in all kinds of games, then he knows he can get away with it as scum.

It's that he continues to justify his withholding claiming vig...and not listen and understand

Your read on me is pretty weird, but I don't put any stock into it since you got paranoid of me in Syryana's game after two scum had died, in twilight, with 7 players remaining, with Ceph hard-townreading me.

Ceph is 5-5 (two scumgames) and you're batting more .500

[Bert]

^that was to Tammy

Mobile

[Bert]

I think he's SK or mafia bulletproof tbh

[Bert]

Because it's wrong, and you know catching SKs is really hard

Pushing you was believing in you as an SK suspect.

I was covering all bases. I've since relented due to PV's claim.

[Bert]

Pushing you requires a lot of aggressiveness, as compared to pushing, say, PV or Anatole.

[Bert]

On computer now, for a bit. Tammy, you haven't voted anyone for almost 2 day phases. Your last vote was on me in the middle of the previous day phase. This game needs a town leader, not Waffle House! Just one day not as waffle house and pick someone???????? With all due respect...

[Bert]

Hi my name is Bert, one of the two lynchables today given everyone's opinions. Nice to meet you.

There's Peregrine, the other lynchable. He has met you.

My favorite food is an enchilada pie, but close to it is stuffed eggplant.

I don't know what Peregrine's favorite food is, but I'm sure he'll like whatever you like given the circumstances!

Here, buzzer.

Question 1!

Who do you choose to vote for today?

[Bert]

You voted as a compromise with 5 mins left for a wagon that wouldn't have a chance.

You also didn't vote Pie the day he was lynched.

No scumread other than me being voted.

I'm a leading wagon now.

[Bert]

Do you think Pere is scum or not?

Do you think I'm scum?

There's no momentum in this game. Deadline is too long.

[Bert]

It felt in a sense how you were in quickness where you said that people needed to make sure that my meta reads were accurate or based on actual games.

Day ONE in a game you died quickly in. In a game where I made like 25% or fewer posts than I have made in this game. When I've been here (in short spurts but not lately), I've played with a playstyle that you're not familiar with. You yourself noted that you've seen my recent past games and how my playstyle has changed.

But there was really no reason to actually suspect me

I always suspect you and you know that. Having a suspected SK is more fuel to speculation, having just watched the "towniest" player win an SK game in a game I backup modded

[Bert]

Tammy - those posts you quoted were before I even considered the possibility of an SK. You didn't make any sense to me as mafia and that's why I townread you. After I thought it was possible you could be SK that thought kinda took over.

This, with feeling.

[Bert]

You've played with me enough to know that how and when I vote is how I do it when I want to do it.

You could still answer - do you think I'm scum or not? Do you think Pere is scum or not? That's all today comes down to. 48 hours from now, or now, will things change that much? Two game days with no flips (via lynch) to make a decision. By deciding, I mean expressing your opinion.

[Bert]

I set it aside for right then because you mentioned ffery and so I thought you knew that I was mafia in Arcadia, and that's why you felt weird interacting with me.

You were left alone in that game where Matt the poet writer (shit can't remember the username) was scum with you, and we totally let you go and never questioned you or anything.

You were left alone in Arcadia for the most part. Having been fooled twice and not really having you pushed ANYWHERE in those games (or this game), not pushing you is what I consider insanity! It doesn't matter if you think those pushes had substance. They were pushes just the same.

[Bert]

I'm defending myself, not pointing out your faults! I think a lot of us are frustrated with PV.

I just want you to make a decision. Vote me or vote PV. OR express intent to vote. Intent to vote would be good. Is that really too much to ask??? A wagon came out of nowhere yesterday.

I can go back to how I used to be, but I'm a bazillion times more flat-lined cos old doc gave me prescription painkiller CRAP that I'm finally off for good! Unless you want me to add exclamation points every which way?

[Bert]

Well from everything you said you're leaning scum on me.

do you want to lynch within the PR's?

I think Pere and Anatole are scum, but we're headed towards a NL.

[Bert]

Hi my name is Bert, one of the two lynchables today given everyone's opinions. Nice to meet you.

There's Peregrine, the other lynchable. He has met you.

My favorite food is an enchilada pie, but close to it is stuffed eggplant.

I don't know what Peregrine's favorite food is, but I'm sure he'll like whatever you like given the circumstances!

Here, buzzer.

Question 1!

Who do you choose to vote for today?

Pizza. Spaghetti. A well-made sandwich. Anything delicious.

I LOVE YOU!

Now tell Tammy why I'm scum or whatever to help her make her decision.

Life or death. AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH Help

[Bert]

READ MY POSTS.

I DON'T KNOW. I'VE MADE THAT QUITE CLEAR.

I'M NOT DOING ANYTHING ELSE NOW.

YOU ALL FIGURE IT OUT.

It doesn't change the deadline. I hope you can understand how I-town may be frustrated that you aren't influencing who the lynch is enough

Influence, power

Otherwise it becomes who the other 6 players think is scum

[Bert]

Can we just happily ever after this game - shit is getting too real

Hell no, not after the endless day phases lately. Murder those suckers.

[Bert]

She's leaving us in the dust for the second straight day to figure out a lynch for ourselves. She did provide all kinds of reasoning, but I think she's living up to her waffllyness. This game is just intensely frustrating.

ANYWAYS, I'm hungry for any lynch now. Be back tomorrow

[Bert]

I'm not. Even with repeating myself it's just annoying, not frsutrating. Pretty confident in a a town win this game.

I'm not confident at all, and in your pull of Molla Singer and I, if all of us flip town which is a distinct possibility, then what inspires your confidence

pool

[Bert]

hope you're having a good birthday dude.

i desperately want to sing katy perry's birthday song but ill refrain

bbmolla is waiting for tammy to make a decision, singer is waiting for a lynch -1 vote to hammer, and tammy is leaving the decision to us all to figure it out

that's mafia for you!

there needs to be a role where we can call in the dead to help us

help us scramble

[Bert]

let's talk about tomatoes

so like, my neighbor uses this organic soil that's supposedly great for growing tomatoes, and so they bring over like freakin tomatoes 4x the size of ours. mums like shellshocked for real

and so now we have so many tomatoes, tomato tomato tomato

that now we have to give some away

that is the story of this game, we are giving away tomatoes

get it?

HAHAHAHAHAHA isnt that so funny im laughing so hard help me hold me okay

yeah back to this game ugh

[Bert]

chill

would you like something chilled from the starbucks inside publix

[Bert]

im gonna get an iced white chocolate mocha

you?

[Bert]

Can do the Frappicino's. Coffee+milkshake+caffeine-

it's almost like manna from heaven.

Too easy to way over-indulge, though......

helllllllllll yes. that stuff is lifesaving material, A++++++++++++



hey guys singer is getting us virtual drinks for free, yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay

ive never gotten beer or whiskey at starbucks...lol

[Bert]

What freaky wut?

[Bert]

And my final post-hammer claim is IT WAS ALL MINE,

EVERYTHING

.

There may have been sharing, but I didn't block anything.

Say what

[Bert]

ANATOLE KURAGIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I had such sky-high expectations of your reads (aside from your read on me)

Like, I even believed ginger soda was good because you wanted one, and then i tried one

there was no nagging feeling in the recesses of your minds about Pere being town and none of the claimed PRs being scum. BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

I'm so disappointed in you

PSSSSSSSSSSSS

i had a dream that tammy flipped scum in this game, flashbacks to this. she's bloody capable as scum of going over the hilltops as scum too with injecting emotional reactions as scum, to mimic her town play.

Spoiler:

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p5682302

"I really did think we were hammered that day. I really did get upset about it, but it was more because I was super stressed that day, I was super busy at work, hadn't slept and I felt like I had let fishy down. Actually I thought we were hammered twice that day. Fishy was really nice telling me not to worry about it when I had a meltdown in our qt though.

I really did try hard to inject an emotional reaction like I would as town though, but I was also telling the truth about me trying to change my meta so that I'm not as reactive."

Excuse me while I have a smug moment and point out why the rancid pirates are probably the most self important hypocritical scummy ass players in this game."

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 9#p5641229

"I just took a look at the player list and lookie who I found? OH geese that might be yygadra union who is guess where on the hypocritical rancid players reads list? IN THEIR TOP TOWN LIST. I'd direct you to what they've done recently but I'm not going to insult anyone in this game by saying it's something ground breaking, but I'll give you a hint. They haven't been here. So, just like Stuffed Crust, who've claimed scum recently so thanks for that, and pfr they've been completely absent."

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 9#p5635789

"why don't you give all of your reads in order of strength?

I mean I get it becaue you think you have some pirate gimmick you think you have some control over the game, but I know I FUCKING KNOW that you're capable of being a troll and acting like you're in control of the game as scum. I FUCKING KNOW THAT.

so you can suck it. I don't think you're town. Muffin is not fooling me again."

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 8#p5651308

"Generic - This is when I HATE fucking playing with you. This is just like We the purple all over again. I wasn't calling you scum. I was trying to work with you and though you buddied the fuck out of me in the beginning of that game you started acting like the biggest piece of fucking shit that ever disgraced mafiascum AND you are doing it again. I fucking hate it like shit when you start playing like this. I"M laughing at you that you don't know how to read me because you plagued and mocked the fuck out of me in We the Purple when I was reading you as town and trying like hell to get Nacho to listen to me. But NO, you couldn't see clearly. The only ONLY thing I have said here is that I'm laughing my ass off that you don't know how to read me. As far as your hydra. I think you're town. And if you would bother reading anything I've said, you would know that. So, you want to stop spouting bullshit that you don't know what you're talking about any second? But I mean sure, let me "deal" with mara cuz I sure as shit fucking hate dealing with you."

I told you to ask me about a particular person, and WHY ARE YOU ACTING LIKE YOU'VE NEVER PLAYED WITH ME???????????????????"

OK BACK TO THE GAME NOW

guys i cant tell if Pere was just messing with us in that twilight posting.

[Bert]

And my final post-hammer claim is IT WAS ALL MINE,

EVERYTHING

.

There may have been sharing, but I didn't block anything.

Pretty much guarantee scum on my wagon.

A thorough double-checking with defender has indicated that timing patterns have cleared nobody that was previously cleared except for Tammy and Anatole. At least, 100% Tammy and 90% Anatole.

Good luck town!!!

GO STARBUCKS

LETS SPROUT EXCITEMENT

[Bert]

I feel tempted to believe Pere was trying to help town with his statements of "100% Tammy and 90% cleared.

I blame it on my naïveté.

[Bert]

I recalled this game due to having a latte right now.

[Bert]

Dunkin donuts iced latte with extra cookie dough, cream and sugar!

[Bert]

That's nice to know!