Mini 1576 - Timeshift Mafia II - Endgame

[PeregrineV]

Vote: VictorDeAngelo

Your name sounds vaguely familiar, but I can't place it....

[PeregrineV]

#first

lets get the game rolling

are mafia kills delayed 1 night too?

Need to figure if this is lazy or fake-questions-to-the-mod tell

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=25018

[PeregrineV]

Vote: Bulbazak

[PeregrineV]

@P5: 132 - what's with the Bulba vote? no comment on Victor?

If I wait to long to figure him out, he endgames me.

Victor's 100 was on the townside of null, if just barely. It definitely didn't deserve the spat of votes. But, is it a flavor-of-the-moment wagon, or is there meat behind it?

Por example-

vote: Victor
choo chooooooooo

Seems to indicate your joining to start a train on Victor. That can be for many reasons, but generally for reactions.

VictorDeAngelo - scummy

Here you have him as scummy.

Someone else said something about 100 being an empty post, etc.

Worse was Anatole, but just cause I don't like their vote on Victor, it I haven't figured out if it's scummy yet.

But all this is just lots of words for "Just watching right now."

[PeregrineV]

I have a townread on PV should I be worried

how can anyone have a read on PV? hes posted three times

2nd post was my thoughts exactly, and the vote on Bulba is townish

I could have a million answers for this, but I'll settle for

[PeregrineV]

Well, to clarify, I voted for him because of post #100, which I pointed out what completely pointless in the post before the one where I voted.

I wasn't saying "fuck it idgaf lynch anyone yolo." It was more, in response to metal's post, me saying "fuck it, I would rather vote for victor all things considered."

but whatev idgaf yolo

I know, I saw it.

But what I gained from 100 was:
Victor not a fan of the no lynch made by Molla & Pie.
He has not played a game with me to his knowledge.
Has Kazekirimara as town.
Does not like Metal's SK-hunting.
Calls Jeesh's questions a load of crap. But assigns this attribute to himself also, so not so much as an attack as an observation that fits with the spirirt of those questions.
Thinks Metal's 49 is scummy.
Doesn't like Molla's 52 or his sheeping of Jeesh.
Points out bulba's lack of reads/opinions.
Wants Pants scumread explained by Kaze.

So, all in all, I think it was an above average post.

[PeregrineV]

I saw people talking to me but heading home now. Might be back on later tonight.

[PeregrineV]

Say something that makes me want to vote Ms. Kaze, but will go find it, and catch up.

[PeregrineV]

Pie is town, btw.

In the meantime, I don't really understand the Victorwagon.

Here it is.

Vote: Ms Kazekirimara

[PeregrineV]

But what I gained from 100 was:
Victor not a fan of the no lynch made by Molla & Pie.
He has not played a game with me to his knowledge.
Has Kazekirimara as town.
Does not like Metal's SK-hunting.
Calls Jeesh's questions a load of crap. But assigns this attribute to himself also, so not so much as an attack as an observation that fits with the spirirt of those questions.
Thinks Metal's 49 is scummy.
Doesn't like Molla's 52 or his sheeping of Jeesh.
Points out bulba's lack of reads/opinions.
Wants Pants scumread explained by Kaze.

So, all in all, I think it was an above average post.

Talk to me about this. I can understand getting a null read from the post, given that at least my own criticisms are for tone and fluff within the post. But what makes it an above average post? Additionally, why do you feel the need to defend it?

Yes, the post has fluff. People like to play around sometimes (<---keyword here), so meh. As for tone, I've seen better and worse, so nothing for that.
What makes the post above average is it delivers information on Victor's mindset/gameview. I prefer it to be presented better, in general, but someone just saying "that post was scummy" without more detail, then I'm thinking you mean it came from scum and does not contain game information.

So, if you don't like the points he made, fine. If you don't like the tone, fine. Lots of posts contain no info and are scummy. I think 100 did contain info, so if you want me to think it's scummy you need to tell me why. I've said why it contained info, so that's the burden needed to overcome to convince me.
(the you is the universal you, not you Dr Pants)

Also, haven't actually caught up, but since you asked and I saw it, here you go.

[PeregrineV]

@Peregrin

Would you be willing to play devil's advocate and explain why you still think Victor might be town?

Sure. Short version, read his posts if you were Victor-scum. Would you have made some of them? Read them as if you were Victor-town- would you have made them?

[PeregrineV]

@P5:
151 - congrats, that outlines what he was trying to say. I still don't like his vote on MS into vote on Molla in the same post, as I said. I second pants's question in 154 but I think you're more townie for that so... I'm not thrilled with moving off the Victor wagon but eh.

Jeesh:

155 - not a fan of the question dodging. I asked both of you to elaborate some things: red-change on Victor and some of the reads you've gleamed with all the damn questions. It's frustrating, and I'm not intending to misrep you guys but (from how I interpreted things) y'all basically said it's anti-town to give your reads and I don't quite understand. I mean, I do on a "basic mafia theory" level, but I also don't get it at all. (I agree w/ 223). funnily enough I'm willing to call you guys as town.

liking Messiah's post in 209, I actually missed that because I'm more concerned with the vote-thing.

P5, Jeesh, Messiah, MsKaze are town enough - 6 down, 7 to go. Bane/Anatole/Molla/MS I need to get more solid reads on (and probably have enough content to get reads), Kcda/Pants/Bulba haven't done much.

p.s. -

IF YOU WANT PEEPS TO PLAY THEN EFFING SEND A MESSAGE WHEN DAY STARTS. fucking hell... rereading.

1) receive role PM
2) go to thread, subscribe thread
3) profit!

p.p.s. as a heads up - esurio's sister is visiting until Tuesday and then

next

Sunday I'll be in the NC Commune, so I might be a bit less active than usual over the next few weeks. I'm lazy enough as is.

I think I might love you.

I live in winston during the week but faghaus on weekends so I am not around very much. I promise to get a reads list out and answer your questions this evening after work or tomorrow tho, I am not sure exactly when cos it will depend on who is over or what we are doing. brock has to work and every1 else is doing *stuff* so it will probs just be reck and I so I shld be able to get to it tonight.

pretty sure bane is scum. I will get to my reasons as to why later 1 of my big long wall post.

VOTE: bane

I have also changed my mind about bulba, I agree with molla I will explain that later too. townreads on you (yaye!) molla, pants, messiah and possibly perv. will give reasons in big long wall post later.

oops

Curious about this, since I get the new-town-player-who-is-frustrated-by-unfocused-posting vibes from him, making him town. Why would scum get angry about the fluffposting and contentless posting when stuff like that makes it easier for them to hide in?

[PeregrineV]

@P5:
151 - congrats, that outlines what he was trying to say. I still don't like his vote on MS into vote on Molla in the same post, as I said. I second pants's question in 154 but I think you're more townie for that so... I'm not thrilled with moving off the Victor wagon but eh.

Jeesh:

155 - not a fan of the question dodging. I asked both of you to elaborate some things: red-change on Victor and some of the reads you've gleamed with all the damn questions. It's frustrating, and I'm not intending to misrep you guys but (from how I interpreted things) y'all basically said it's anti-town to give your reads and I don't quite understand. I mean, I do on a "basic mafia theory" level, but I also don't get it at all. (I agree w/ 223). funnily enough I'm willing to call you guys as town.

liking Messiah's post in 209, I actually missed that because I'm more concerned with the vote-thing.

P5, Jeesh, Messiah, MsKaze are town enough - 6 down, 7 to go. Bane/Anatole/Molla/MS I need to get more solid reads on (and probably have enough content to get reads), Kcda/Pants/Bulba haven't done much.

p.s. -

IF YOU WANT PEEPS TO PLAY THEN EFFING SEND A MESSAGE WHEN DAY STARTS. fucking hell... rereading.

1) receive role PM
2) go to thread, subscribe thread
3) profit!

p.p.s. as a heads up - esurio's sister is visiting until Tuesday and then

next

Sunday I'll be in the NC Commune, so I might be a bit less active than usual over the next few weeks. I'm lazy enough as is.

I think I might love you.

I live in winston during the week but faghaus on weekends so I am not around very much. I promise to get a reads list out and answer your questions this evening after work or tomorrow tho, I am not sure exactly when cos it will depend on who is over or what we are doing. brock has to work and every1 else is doing *stuff* so it will probs just be reck and I so I shld be able to get to it tonight.

pretty sure bane is scum. I will get to my reasons as to why later 1 of my big long wall post.

VOTE: bane

I have also changed my mind about bulba, I agree with molla I will explain that later too. townreads on you (yaye!) molla, pants, messiah and possibly perv. will give reasons in big long wall post later.

oops

Curious about this, since I get the new-town-player-who-is-frustrated-by-unfocused-posting vibes from him, making him town. Why would scum get angry about the fluffposting and contentless posting when stuff like that makes it easier for them to hide in?

It worked in my brain.....

The response is in regards to the Bane scumread you posted.

[PeregrineV]

Dr. Pants is conflicting me. I agree with his instantly calling out Molla in 144 but he does't seem to follow up at all. I also hate his assessment of 100, mainly out of his fairly scummy attempts to edit it in 120 (conveniently hidden away in a spoiler) and then overlooking Peregrin's interpretation in 151.

Dr. Pants reminds me of something I did in a previous scumgame of accusing people of being emotional when they weren't in 166. This is particularly odd since in the post of Bane's he was referring to Bane was telling other players to reduce the anger levels.

And then this

k so we've devolved to fluff posts.
here's what I'm seeing right now.

I'm mostly curious to hear from PV right now. He's the only person to abandon the Victor wagon. Since his vote on Victor was RVS, and he's suspicious of people on the wagon. That's fine in its own right. However, his reasoning behind voting Bulba is obvious BS. Additionally, he's not just reading the Victor wagon as bad, he's reading Victor as town and the post that put Victor under the spotlight as "an above average post". I'm curious to see if this is cautious town, or safe scum play.

Removing an rvs vote when things get serious is suddenly tantamount to abandoning a wagon. And then because he has an early townread (although to be fair it came across to me as a fairly weak townread) and didn't hate the post he's scummy.

Be consistent. I definitely didn't ignore PV's interpretation. That's why I asked him about it. Additionally, note that I did not saying I was reading PV as scum for it. Also, why would you expect my scum game to be like yours? That's just weird.

Looking for scum by looking for the things you do as scum is a very common scumhunting tactic. Like when you or your wife is pregnant, you tend to notice all the pregnant women a lot more.

The question is, is Victor looking for scum that way, or is he looking for a way to look like he's looking for scum?

[PeregrineV]

Kcda is leaning town despite calling us a VI like a jerk >:

Play feels quite similar to Micro 287. At least so far.

A link and a short description about how/why it's similar would actually turn this from *empty post* to a *reason for the townread*.

Just saying.

[PeregrineV]

i dont want to take part in a Jeesh Ms Kaze battle right now

UNVOTE:
VOTE: PeregrenV
Quit lurking!

Weekends are made for Michelob and mostly not-mafia.

[PeregrineV]

bulba placed a naked vote on kazemara at a time when there were active victor/metal pushes.

I didn't like either of those pushes. Why do you think I would?

Also I disagree with your Molla read. This is way more fluffier than typical town Molla.

Unvote

Vote BBMolla

@Dr Pants: Why did you run away from your Jeesh vote when Jeesh/Kaze became front and center? I understand not wanting to get in the fight, but I can't understand avoiding the spotlight altogether.

Prove it 20/20/20.

[PeregrineV]

wow! what an impressive bluff!

wow! what a tough move by jeesh, calling out such a strong bluff!

who will prevail in this exciting battle that will capture the full attention of the town?

find out tomorrow in: "day 1 lurkers get a free pass because the loud people decided to gun for each other"

This post made me think back...

....to this post.

if something big goes down between Jeesh and Ms Kaze, I want it to be later in the day. Eight people have less than 20 posts right now. Three people have less than 10. I don't want a battle between two of the larger players in the game to happen before others start posting more.

Plus, I don't trust either of them.

If you trust neither of them then why are you getting all worked up over a single post (321)?

Maybe a more detailed of "Why don't you trust Ms. Kaze? Why don;t you trust Jeesh?"
TIA

[PeregrineV]

I'm seeing this fight between you and Ms Kaze as town v town

[PeregrineV]

I am not quite sure what you think you are accomplishing with all of the dick waving and I have a pretty high tolerance for dick waving.

I'm trying to communicate my annoyance. I'm seeing this fight between you and Ms Kaze as town v town, but since you both like to post, nothing productive is going to happen and its just going to clutter the thread.

Do you really think that Ms Kaze would, as scum, guess what the role PM for town says? Knowing full well that if they were wrong, they'd get lynch immediately?

I don't think that the gm is a dummy and would let scum know the contents of a vt claim.

cos I dunno, that is what good gms do?

this site encourages good gms mebbe?

the soft IC claim is crap and the allusion to a vt claim after a soft IC claim which followed a vt claim is complete bullocks.

I am at a loss that you are not seeing this.

Did you sincerely believe that Ms. Kaze was claiming or crumbing being an Innocent Child?

[PeregrineV]

I am not quite sure what you think you are accomplishing with all of the dick waving and I have a pretty high tolerance for dick waving.

I'm trying to communicate my annoyance. I'm seeing this fight between you and Ms Kaze as town v town, but since you both like to post, nothing productive is going to happen and its just going to clutter the thread.

Do you really think that Ms Kaze would, as scum, guess what the role PM for town says? Knowing full well that if they were wrong, they'd get lynch immediately?

I don't think that the gm is a dummy and would let scum know the contents of a vt claim.

cos I dunno, that is what good gms do?

this site encourages good gms mebbe?

the soft IC claim is crap and the allusion to a vt claim after a soft IC claim which followed a vt claim is complete bullocks.

I am at a loss that you are not seeing this.

Did you sincerely believe that Ms. Kaze was claiming or crumbing being an Innocent Child?

[PeregrineV]

What?

[PeregrineV]

Re: (419): Yes. If you want reasons, ask. If you don't get it, research it. If you want to generate but not participate, say you don't understand.
And 125 was your interpretation.

@ Jeesh and Ms Kaze: we're not lynching either of you today. If you can't play nice then just stop interacting, now. Who else is scum?

@ Molla: I want Victor dead, will you join me on that?

@ Peregrine: I've seen you ditch the town-PV-starts-slow meta recently; what's up?

Not sure what you mean. My activity is a function of time (weekdays) and RL (work/kids). You'd have better luck with a specific game(s) compare/contrast to go with the question.

[PeregrineV]

k, i got questions and I want an experienced player to answer:

1) is it common for a mod to put a sample role PM in a scum QT? if you were going to look for a sample role PM in a game you didn't play, is the scum QT a place you would normally check?

2) is it common for theme games to get re-balanced in between plays? how different can 2 games of the same theme look?

1. usually included in the opening posts. However, scum fakelcaims are often given when the role PMs are given.

2. Yes. Marketplace Mafia, Marketplace Mafia 2, Marketplace Mafia 3.

[PeregrineV]

taking a lunch/dinner/grocery store trip... break for now. p14 and on coming later.

p.s. - reading a page of P5 should be fun

Probably not, but thanks for the vote of encouragement.

Vote: Bulba

[PeregrineV]

VC 1.6 (5/20/14)
PeregrineV (L-7)
Bulbazak (L-5)

Bbmolla

,

VictorDeAngelo

,

PeregrineV

Anatole Kuragin (L-7)
Kcdaspot (L-7)
Jeesh5 (L-6)

Ms Kazekirimara

Dr Pants (L-7)
Bane (L-6) Dr Pants
VictorDeAngelo (L-2) Anatole Kuragin, Messiah Complex,

Kcdaspot

, Metal Sonic, InflatablePie
Messiah Complex (L-7)
Bbmolla (L-7)
Metal Sonic (L-7)
Ms Kazekirimara (L-4) ,

Jeesh5, Bane

InflatablePie (L-7)
No Lynch (L-7)
Not Voting (1) Bulbazak

13 alive, 7 to lynch. Deadline is the morning of 5/28/14.

Just finished the catchup. Kind of got my prelim townreads down, so wanted to see where they were on the questionable Victor wagon.

So I call the blue peeps "likely town" and the purple peeps "townish enough", I distinctly like the Victor wagon even less.

[PeregrineV]

EBWOP:

VC 1.6 (5/20/14)
PeregrineV (L-7)
Bulbazak (L-5)

Bbmolla

,

VictorDeAngelo

,

PeregrineV

Anatole Kuragin (L-7)
Kcdaspot (L-7)
Jeesh5 (L-6)

Ms Kazekirimara

Dr Pants (L-7)
Bane (L-6) Dr Pants
VictorDeAngelo (L-2) Anatole Kuragin, Messiah Complex,

Kcdaspot

, Metal Sonic, InflatablePie
Messiah Complex (L-7)
Bbmolla (L-7)
Metal Sonic (L-7)
Ms Kazekirimara (L-4) ,

Jeesh5, Bane

InflatablePie (L-7)
No Lynch (L-7)
Not Voting (1) Bulbazak

13 alive, 7 to lynch. Deadline is the morning of 5/28/14.[/color]

Just finished the catchup. Kind of got my prelim townreads down, so wanted to see where they were on the questionable Victor wagon.

So I call the blue peeps "likely town" and the purple peeps "townish enough", I distinctly like the Victor wagon even less.

[PeregrineV]

Scum love to talk about their scumgame like this, especially if they can erroneously use it to discredit someone else.

You mean like this?

So rather than actually believe that we're a member of the town, you're all choosing to speculate that we're scum with provided information of the townie role pm AND decided to lock ourselves into a claim from page one even though there was zero reason to do so or pressure on us?

lol what is Occam's razor anyway, right?

You're all lame.

Yeah. I took this as a scum-claim.

_______

Also.

PEOPLE. WHY HAS THIS QUESTION NOT BEEN ANSWERED YET?

SOMEONE,

ANYONE

, GIVE ME A GOOD REASON KAZE IS TOWN.

The disadvantages of locking themselves into a VT claim outweigh any possible tonwniness of the VT claim, especially considering the needed scum flexibility of fakeclaiming for their team's advantage.

[PeregrineV]

By request, the town win condition has been posted in the OP.

Who requested it?

[PeregrineV]

I'm back.

Will need to look over everything because my brain un-mafia-ed while we were on break.

[PeregrineV]

Deadline will be extended to 8pm EDT on Wednesday, June 4.

Can we get one of them fancy vote summary thingies?

[PeregrineV]

Kazemaru's obviously fake and dumb gladiator claim was pretty dumb though. Why did you do that?

because everyone's going "lalala lets lynch victor" and, it was starting to get on my nerves. I'm not sure how Kaze feels, but at this point I would much rather be lynched than have victor get lynched because people might actually listen to my read on mollie when I flip town

No, they won't. If you die and are town, no one will read your stuff beyond one or two people who will draw whatever conclusion they want, and you will be relgated to the dead-town pile.
So any tangible things you want beleived, talk abou them now.
And no "If Mollie were X, she would always/never Y me."

Bane is a better push than Victor

I think Bane is town.

I'm a little worried about PV. He said he wanted to sort me, but he has yet to engage me on anything.

When you least expect it, expect it.

[PeregrineV]

Kcda is leaning town despite calling us a VI like a jerk >:

Play feels quite similar to Micro 287. At least so far.

A link and a short description about how/why it's similar would actually turn this from *empty post* to a *reason for the townread*.

Just saying.

And this.

[PeregrineV]

436

Whenever I've played with Molla as town in past games, he always seems to be focused, even if he doesn't post a lot. I didn't get that from this game. He's all over the place, and I don't see him scumhunting. Can you honestly remember a particularly original stance he's made in this game where he's actually given reasons for it?

BBMolla is one of those types of players.

But in reference to 436, show me the first 20 of a Molla scumgame, a Molla towngame, and the first 20 here, and point to how it's like his scum 20.

[PeregrineV]

I think InflatablePie is scum

Happy Scumday!

And...

maybe.

[PeregrineV]

EBWOP:

VC 1.6 (5/20/14)
PeregrineV (L-7)
Bulbazak (L-5)

Bbmolla

,

VictorDeAngelo

,

PeregrineV

Anatole Kuragin (L-7)
Kcdaspot (L-7)
Jeesh5 (L-6)

Ms Kazekirimara

Dr Pants (L-7)
Bane (L-6) Dr Pants
VictorDeAngelo (L-2) Anatole Kuragin, Messiah Complex,

Kcdaspot

, Metal Sonic, InflatablePie
Messiah Complex (L-7)
Bbmolla (L-7)
Metal Sonic (L-7)
Ms Kazekirimara (L-4) ,

Jeesh5, Bane

InflatablePie (L-7)
No Lynch (L-7)
Not Voting (1) Bulbazak

13 alive, 7 to lynch. Deadline is the morning of 5/28/14.[/color]

Just finished the catchup. Kind of got my prelim townreads down, so wanted to see where they were on the questionable Victor wagon.

So I call the blue peeps "likely town" and the purple peeps "townish enough", I distinctly like the Victor wagon even less.

If we were to lynch one of anatole, Messiah, Metal or IP, you would be the best lynch?

[PeregrineV]

..... run the by again PV?

for contexts sake.

Based on my townish reads, the Victor wagon seems pretty scum-heavy. If I'm right or partially right, who of those four is most likely scum?

[PeregrineV]

K so this head (Maru Head of Epic Rageness) is v/la -ish, I'm to busy with a girl to give a rats ass about the game for the week, so sorry if I am not too active.

ANYWAYS.

a little analysis.

Metal Sonic asked to replace out AFTER the flip and reveal. This is the only game he replaced out of. This screams townie to me. Why? Because he hammered being dead set in his mind that he was hammering on scum. He waits over 24 hours to the flip after he hammers without asking to be replaced. He waits a few hours after the flip. Then he realizes he fucked himself up the ass with that hammer and was too lazy to clean up his own messes, so he took the easy path and asked out.

Scum wouldn't do that. Why? Because they'd know they were hammering a townie, before they did it So if they were just wanting to make a mess of the slot, he'd have asked for replacement sometime between his hammer and the flip, and not waited on reading the flip to replace out.

yes that hammer was scummy as fuck and I wanted to murder the bitch.
Yes if for some unknown reason House TripleHeads replaced out and metal sonic came back in I'd immediately flip my vote to him on pure policy to get rid of his ass, as HE AS A PLAYER deserves to be lynched for that action.
NO, His SLOT is not scummy now due to his subsequent actions.
NO, his slot doesn't deserve to be punished for his idiotic actions.

I haven't discussed it what the KlazHeadofAWESOME yet, but once I lay out why House T is confTOwn in my opinion, I'm relatively sure KlazHead will agree. So From this point forward, I am assuming House T as the most towny of all towns, and refusing to ever vote him, no mater what.

Umm nope. The replace out is completely null with regards to player/play/this thread. If you want to make a case for the player being town/scum, or the play being town/scum, then go ahead. Otherwise, the bolded makes no sense. Town makes mistakes and knows it and learns to live with it. They don't replace out for fear of criticism.

[PeregrineV]

EBWOP:

VC 1.6 (5/20/14)
PeregrineV (L-7)
Bulbazak (L-5)

Bbmolla

,

VictorDeAngelo

,

PeregrineV

Anatole Kuragin (L-7)
Kcdaspot (L-7)
Jeesh5 (L-6)

Ms Kazekirimara

Dr Pants (L-7)
Bane (L-6) Dr Pants
VictorDeAngelo (L-2) Anatole Kuragin, Messiah Complex,

Kcdaspot

, Metal Sonic, InflatablePie
Messiah Complex (L-7)
Bbmolla (L-7)
Metal Sonic (L-7)
Ms Kazekirimara (L-4) ,

Jeesh5, Bane

InflatablePie (L-7)
No Lynch (L-7)
Not Voting (1) Bulbazak

13 alive, 7 to lynch. Deadline is the morning of 5/28/14.[/color]

Just finished the catchup. Kind of got my prelim townreads down, so wanted to see where they were on the questionable Victor wagon.

So I call the blue peeps "likely town" and the purple peeps "townish enough", I distinctly like the Victor wagon even less.

If we were to lynch one of anatole, Messiah, Metal or IP, who would be the best lynch?

Hey House, look at this and tell me what you think.

[PeregrineV]

UNVOTE:

prolly gonna get replaced. my vote on him is useless.

I dont see it as a bad vote, but lets see what else they have first.

Thoughts on Bulba and Dr Pants?

[PeregrineV]

also amused with how they conviently forgot to use their role N1 all the while, commenting on how they probabky aren't the only ones who've done so. If she were scum, she would be allowed to live till D4 because of her "confirmable role" and, by then it could be lylo. either way, it's an incredibly long time to allow her to live based on claim.

and if it is lylo at day four, and she is still here, her role is confirmable, and we either have a clear'd townie, or we have a caught scum. Either way, whats the harm in keeping her alive until day four, even if day four is lylo.

What post is this claim in?

[PeregrineV]

idk, ISO jeesh and ctrl+F for "giver"

All my other ctrl+F words weren't working, thanks.

[PeregrineV]

That's very generic.

Peregrine seems to genuinely be looking for scum without being opportunistic (

this will usually depend more on my mood than my role

), wishy-washy (

if I feel that way, those people are nul

l), or using blatant logical fallacies

(give me time, I have my own brand of Logic^TM that pisses people off at some point

). Basically good, generic town behavior or perfect scum game. (

Pretty sure these are both back-handed compliments, at best

).

Bolded responses mine.

Right now I have townreads that are strong enough to exclude certain people from my scumpool.

I've announced the rest like 5 times, but no one wants to talk about them or my townreads.

So that means you don't disagree with me.

Now I am waiting for some of the whirlwind of crap to die down so we can continue the game.

[PeregrineV]

So I finally finished reading the game too, and have a few thoughts to say in general.

1) HYDRAS - Sign your posts, please. Xof asked this earlier, but it was ignored. It

helps

everyone read your posts better, and isn't that hard, so please do it.


I would totally vote Kaze right now, but Klick is still reading, and I want to give him time.

Guessing from context that this is Mist, but you didn't sign your post.

If you want to give reads from each head that's fine, but you are then going to need each head to argue/defend those reads. Is that the style you are going for?

[PeregrineV]

Eeeeeeeehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Nah.

Vote: Kaze

My earlier slight townread is gone.

Not feeling the Bane wagon, and hesitant on Anatole wagon- some of his posts don't make scum-sense.

[PeregrineV]

Checking in.

[PeregrineV]

Hmmmmm.

Welcome Bert.

Will come back to this.

[PeregrineV]

Hmmmmm.

Welcome Bert.

Will come back to this.

quit dodging. Play the game, or ask for replacement.

Sorry, that was my other head.

[PeregrineV]

Ah, well.

Vote: House Targaryen

[PeregrineV]

God, seriously?

W/e, didnt really plan on doing much until jeesh slot got lynched

Best laid plans.

Since your other head claims this was all you previously, maybe you could bring us up-to-date on your reads on all of the slots (not specific players, because not falling for that trap).

@MOD- Vote count please?

[PeregrineV]

I don't feel super compelled to attempt towncasing molla or scumcasing Pie when neither of them is getting lynched today. I think I'd prefer letting House T live just to sort of confirm our ability to target something, though they still need to clarify their role and answer my previous things directed at them, and there is nothing preventing them from being a scum tracker. Anatole can go.

Bert, you should maybe reconsider your vote right now just based on how dreadful your company is.

-Ceph

VOTE: Anatole Kuragin

Your catch-up post has Anatole as opportunistic scum. Can you give post-based specifics?

[PeregrineV]

Even as shitty as I am, I can see that House Targaryen is obviously town, what does that say about you guys?

I'm less trusting than you?

Vote: Mara/Kaze

[PeregrineV]

@Tammy- it's a quick read if you read for the meat.

[PeregrineV]

VOTE: ipie

mod i'm going v/la for 2-3 days

sorry guys. i can't deal with mafiascum right now.

@Mod: Can we get a vote count?

just in case, 1000. Will do this one later.

[PeregrineV]

Oh real quick before I pass out. I don't think I was the night one shot? I don't think? I mean I'm not sure how this time shift thing works, but it said I got the vest last night and I was shot last night. So, yeah I guess I don't actually know due to time shift?

But yeah.

If they shot you night1, it would happen night2 (last night). If you got the vest instantly but were the target, you would be protected according to the NAR. If you were shot last night, you won't be hit/killed until night3.

Only 5 people voted Bane long enough to show up in vote counts.
Victor (dead town)
Messiah (dead scum)
You (I don't think you would shoot yourself)
Dr Pants (429)
Kaze (659)

What do you think the likelihood that scum tried to start a wagon on you before deciding on the NK instead?

[PeregrineV]

You do an action and depending on what your pm says, it may or may not happen that night or the next night.

What does that have anything to do with scum when there are obviously town players with both types of actions?

It's the second sentence that's the scummy one.

Want to explain how?

There's an awful lot of buddying going on there.

If this is correct, Bulba, you are saying that the 2nd sentence contains an "awful lot of buddying". I'd like more detail behind the thought that the sentence (question) "What does that have anything to do with scum when there are obviously town players with both types of actions?" is scum attempting to ingratiate themselves with a town player.

If that is not your answer to 1271, then I'd like to hear your answer.

[PeregrineV]

VC 1.8 (5/30/14)

Bulbazak (L-5)

VictorDeAngelo

,

PeregrineV

Bane

(L-6) Ms Kazekirimara

VictorDeAngelo

(Lynch)

Anatole Kuragin

, InflatablePie,

Messiah Complex

,

Kcdaspot

, Dr Pants, Bbmolla,

Metal Sonic

Metal Sonic

(L-6)

Jeesh5

Ms Kazekirimara (L-5)

Bane

, Bulbazak
Not Voting (0)

We have a lynch.

----------

The crowd decides to lynch Victor. After killing him, he is revealed to be a:

Spoiler:

VictorDeAngelo, Vanilla Townie, was lynched Day 1.

It is now night. Night will end in 48 hours, Sunday morning at 8am EDT.

VC 2.9 (6/24/14)

Studio 54

(L-6) Ms Marangal

Wake88

(Lynch)

Messiah Complex

, Dr Pants, Bulbazak,

Studio 54

,

Tammy

, Bbmolla, InflatablePie
Ms Marangal (L-7)

Wake88, PeregrineV

InflatablePie (L-7)

Bert, Anatole Kuragin

No Lynch (L-7)
Not Voting (0)

Lynch has been reached.

Wake88 has been lynched Day 2. He was a Town Tracker.

Night 2 has begun. Deadline is Thursday night at 8pm.

Jeesh

Dr Pants
BBMolla

Bert replaced kcdspot

InflatablePie
Ms Kazekirima

Anatole Kuragin

---------------------- <--- Line of Lynchability

Tammy replaced Bane

PeregrineV

House/Wake/Metal Sonic

Bulbazak

VictorDeAngelo

Based on wagons, votes, and Messiah "reads", willing to lynch Pie & MaraKaze primarily, with Bulba/Pants as runner-ups.

Vote: InflatiblePie

[PeregrineV]

It's an odd pattern I've noticed from Anatole, like when she called House obv. town yesterday when they were being ran up. She has a habit of calling players under suspicion obv. town while not adding much to the conversation.

Frankly, I read it more grammatically as:

What does that have anything to do with scum when there are, obviously, town players with both types of actions?

because of the adverb "obviously" and not the adjective "obvious".

[PeregrineV]

Oh real quick before I pass out. I don't think I was the night one shot? I don't think? I mean I'm not sure how this time shift thing works, but it said I got the vest last night and I was shot last night. So, yeah I guess I don't actually know due to time shift?

But yeah.

If they shot you night1, it would happen night2 (last night). If you got the vest instantly but were the target, you would be protected according to the NAR. If you were shot last night, you won't be hit/killed until night3.

Only 5 people voted Bane long enough to show up in vote counts.
Victor (dead town)
Messiah (dead scum)
You (I don't think you would shoot yourself)
Dr Pants (429)
Kaze (659)

What do you think the likelihood that scum tried to start a wagon on you before deciding on the NK instead?

I don't feel like scum would feel particularly threatened by Bane, so I don't see why they would do this

-Ceph

Tammy (replaced Bane) claimed to have been shot, and the vest protected her. Do you doubt this claim?

[PeregrineV]

@Pie-

Of all the stuff, you haven't addressed the statement in 1263.

[PeregrineV]

A bane kill by mafia night one is one of the dumbest choices possible, looking back. It doesn't make any sense.

Bane (hydra of Klazam and Maruchan)

It's probably a thing where the scum is afraid of one of the heads because of prior relationship, games, etc. If anyone knows Klazam or Maruchan really well, feel free to speculate. Otherwise gonna guess PR hunting.

[PeregrineV]

Molla lynch is never happening

tammy lynch is never happening

everyone else id fair game

Would those be your town reads, or just your opinion that nobody wants to lynch either one of them?

[PeregrineV]

Those are my top town reads, yea

Why is Molla a townread for you? Why is Tammy, for that matter?

[PeregrineV]

Sorry for doing nothing lately, is there a reason I missed that we're not lynching Pie?

He said you are scum trying to mislynch him.

[PeregrineV]

I don't understand why Tammy being scum is even remotely on the table.

She literally can't be mafia.

-Ceph

Who thinks Tammy is scum?

[PeregrineV]

Sorry for doing nothing lately, is there a reason I missed that we're not lynching Pie?

He said you are scum trying to mislynch him.

Ok

Now why are we wasting time dicking around about "OMG WHY WOULD MAFIA KILL BANE"

Because it was asked.

A bane kill by mafia night one is one of the dumbest choices possible, looking back. It doesn't make any sense.

[PeregrineV]

But if they were PR hunting, why didn't they shoot the claimed PR?

Because 1-shot BP vest giver sounds fake?
They don't care if a 1-shot BP vest gets given?
If they killed him night1 he would already have given it away so they couldn't stop it, and didn't expect the no-action?

etc.

[PeregrineV]

@p5 (1350): I think I did? maybe not directly but I mentioned Anatole's vote on me kinda sucked, and admitted that I was wrong on my townread on Messiah, and asked someone else (Tammy?) what Messiah's read on me had to do with anything.

as for the "without reason" thing, I do see where that's coming from, because I know after I got behind on catching up around D1 or 2 I think, I forgot the specific reasons for my reads (gut reads from certain posts were the basis for a few of them, notably Messiah from what I remember) and from then on I just stated my reads without bothering to revisit them or elaborate on them, essentially just trusting my earlier gutreads to be correct. in hindsight, unsurprisingly, I probably should not have taken the lazy route.

1285 could also indicate Molla... If so, who is his partner?

[PeregrineV]

I think Anatole is town btw, more so than ever.

I think I asked this already, but if Pie is scum who is the last one?

[PeregrineV]

Bulba I think?

That might explain this:

Bulba why do you think I'm scum, shoot

I didn't like how you voted no lynch in a game where that would hurt us immediately, as we'd essentially go a whole day/night cycle with no information, essentially wasting the day, and then when you got called out on it and Mollie asked you to vote MS, you did, but made up different reasons for it (Didn't want to make it look like you were buddying Mollie...). I also haven't gotten any sense that you are scumhunting in this game. You just seem to be coasting, and I don't like that at all.

I'm liking Molla better now.

[PeregrineV]

well it's a good person to lynch, to be fair

Wrong, he's a horrible person to lynch. I would be shocked if he flipped scum.

Why the townread on Pie?

[PeregrineV]

Wow at the last-minute strong townreads on Pie coming in. I really hope you all are wrong, but this looks like a bad sign.

I wouldn't say I have a townread at all, this wagon just didn't feel right to me.

If he flips scum, you didn't have a townread, so all is good.
If he flips town, that wagon didn't feel right to you, so all is good.

He's already lynched, so you can state how you really feel.

[PeregrineV]

<Peregrine, Mara> is the question mark - I would be shocked if there isn't (at least) one scum in there. Very likely Mara, and I can't read Pere's lurkiness for naught.

I saw something last night on my mobile that I wanted to talk about re: Pants, so hopefully twilight lasts pretty long.

You might be better served describing my lurkieness, so we can both use the same definition of the word.

[PeregrineV]

I think our twilight is longer than our day.

Trying to decide if 1425 was town or WIFOM. But not real hard, because [flip].

[PeregrineV]

P5 is me.

[PeregrineV]

VC 1.8 (5/30/14)

Bulbazak (L-5)

VictorDeAngelo

,

PeregrineV

Bane

(L-6) Ms Kazekirimara

VictorDeAngelo

(Lynch)

Anatole Kuragin

,

InflatablePie, Messiah Complex

,

Kcdaspot

,

Dr Pants

, Bbmolla,

Metal Sonic

Metal Sonic

(L-6)

Jeesh5

Ms Kazekirimara (L-5)

Bane

, Bulbazak
Not Voting (0)

We have a lynch.

----------

The crowd decides to lynch Victor. After killing him, he is revealed to be a:

Spoiler:

VictorDeAngelo, Vanilla Townie, was lynched Day 1.

It is now night. Night will end in 48 hours, Sunday morning at 8am EDT.

VC 2.9 (6/24/14)

Studio 54

(L-6) Ms Marangal

Wake88

(Lynch)

Messiah Complex

,

Dr Pants

, Bulbazak,

Studio 54

,

Tammy

, Bbmolla,

InflatablePie

Ms Marangal (L-7)

Wake88, PeregrineV

InflatablePie

(L-7)

Bert, Anatole Kuragin

No Lynch (L-7)
Not Voting (0)

Lynch has been reached.

Wake88 has been lynched Day 2. He was a Town Tracker.

Night 2 has begun. Deadline is Thursday night at 8pm.

Jeesh

Dr Pants

BBMolla

Bert replaced kcdspot

InflatablePie

Ms Kazekirima

Anatole Kuragin

---------------------- <--- Line of Lynchability

Tammy replaced Bane

PeregrineV

House/Wake/Metal Sonic

Bulbazak

VictorDeAngelo

Based on wagons, votes, and Messiah "reads", willing to lynch Pie & MaraKaze primarily, with Bulba/Pants as runner-ups.

Vote: InflatiblePie

updating this. Adding this.

VC 3.4 (7/7/14)
Bulbazak (L-5) Studio 54

Anatole Kuragin

(L-5) Bulbazak

InflatablePie

(Lynch) Bert, Bbmolla,

Anatole Kuragin

,

PeregrineV, Dr Pants,

Ms Marangal
Not Voting (2)

InflatablePie

,

Tammy

We have a lynch. My apologies again for the whole disappearing without notice thing.

[PeregrineV]

It would look like either Mara/Kaze is scum, or one of Bulba/BBMolla. Still think this is not scum-Molla, less sure on Bulba.

Bulba less likely from the fact did all three scum vote wake? Maybe, since he was already claimed.

Would like to start with Mara.

Vote: Ms. Marangal

Willing to entertain other ideas, but this is really my preferred trio.

[PeregrineV]

I think logically speaking there is probably a mafia member between Marangal, Bert, Bulba then, because I have a strong town read on P5.

Why Bert? I had kcadspot kind of town (although yes, mostly for meta, he was also, on his own, not scummy).

[PeregrineV]

I concur about mara but it's a bit of an echo chamber in here and I would like to hear more from the other players before voting. I still like PV.

i have to agree with this here. I like me too.

[PeregrineV]

Actually, how about I refuse to talk until someone can give me a case that isnt associatives, because history proves that when I am grouped as scum via that it is pretty much always wrong and when I am town via that, I am always pretty much scum so associstives are pretty dumb when trying to read me?

I also might as well be at L-1 by now anyway, ajd Ive alrewdy clsimed.

Coasting is a dumb reason because I was obviously not eilling to do anything before tammy replaced in and had been vla since then?

It's process of elimination. If not you, then who of Bulba, Bert, Molla?

[PeregrineV]

Your POE sucks, PV. The correct group is "Bulba, Anatole, PV". I'd lynch pretty much every player in the game before Bert.

That's because your not reading the same game.

Perhaps it's best if you go over your reads, along with why each person is town.

[PeregrineV]

In conclusion you should all help me lynch Bulbazak

Why him over Mara?

[PeregrineV]

Monday pre-prod post

[PeregrineV]

On page 64...7 pages of goodness?

[PeregrineV]

Could have done without the 5 prior pages.

I don't understand the resistance to a massclaim, even if we have a serial killer.

We're down two scum. If we don't have a serial killer, we're only looking for one more person.

Also, if someone claims vig, and someone not claiming vig would give us a whole hell of a lot of information, if the game's not over when we lynch the third mafia, then we know it's a serial killer. Messiah Complex did not shoot himself, and if it's a vig, they have no reason not to claim that shot.

It gives us more information on the setup that way. I didn't say anything about a missing kill last night, but Bulba jumping to that makes me think if there is a serial killer then he's probably it and something happened to his shot.

There was only one death last night, which means either the vig is one-shot or something happened to their kill or they're a sk with an errant shot.

Mafia has ALREADY made their choice for who they killed last night, so it's not like they can go back and change it and kill someone different if someone claims something the mafia would rather have dead. They'll still be here.

If we have a better understanding of the setup, then maybe we can finish this today, unless there's a serial killer and our hunt will still go on.

Also, think about it. If it's a serial killer, he has no real interest in lynching the final mafia because then he's out there alone for the rest of the game. He'll want the last mafia around so that he has a better shot of winning the game.

I just don't see any downside whatsoever.

I know you don't like hearing this, but THIS is the Tammy I like.

Targeted pie, molla, and bulba. Feel free to confirm/deny if you've had your shit blocked, bb and bulba.

[PeregrineV]

One of the reasons I was skeptical to post roles is, since there was allegedly an instant vest (studio) and mafia are confirmed to have a roleblocker, they could THEORETICALLY have an instant roleblock (or instant anything for that matter).

I played in Timeshift 1. By played, I mean I died

night1 in a timeshifted game

, along with another VT. Don't remember the details, but I believe there is instant stuff out there, and one of the reasons the insta-vest role made sense.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=25018

VT here, for the record.

[PeregrineV]

Spoiler:

Replacements:
Bert replaces Kcdaspot, Day 2.
Studio 54 replaces Jeesh5, Day 2.
Tammy replaces Bane, Day 2.


Alive:
PeregrineV
Bulbazak
Anatole Kuragin <PROD> <PROD>
Bert
Studio 54 (Cephrir/Axxle/PrivateI)
Tammy
Bbmolla
Ms Marangal <PROD>

Not lynching Anatole, Studio, or Tammy, reasons all as before.

Molla feels town, so even though it's mostly gut, its towngut, which is harder to achieve?/receive? than scumgut.

Kcadspot had something similar, but on a smaller scale. Bert, you don't got that. Part of your last 5 pages were you trying to rile up Tammy.

Mara has better posting now, but is it because your on the chopping block, or your sense of civic pride kicked in? It's actually the short list between you and Bulba, but I'd add Bert too at this point.

Bulba you're PoE scum and your not helping your own case very much by not saying much. Your scumreads is/was Anatole/me/Mara, and you found Pie town-1415. You can help me out by explaining your reads on Mara and Bert.

[PeregrineV]

Sorry, I got other games and regular work to do.

Mara- staying or dying? Who is scum in you, Bert, Bulba? if that is town tirfecta, you'll need to talk hard.
Bert- why Bulba or Mara over you? You got others, that's great, but, to me, those are the three.
Bulba- see post above.

Everyone else- if you got a REAL reason to clear any of these please give it now. Otherwise, talk to me about who and why.

[PeregrineV]

8 more pages...

anyone have a summary?

[PeregrineV]

Defender is on vacation, so no hurry, I think.

[PeregrineV]

The SK will continue to scumhunt, and thus could easily take care of the last scum for us.

On the other hand, SKs are likely Bulletproof, so:

An SK seems harder to take care of. Also, another mafia is not certain to exist, depending on moderator variables. An SK most surely exists barring something extraordinary.

That's why my priority is the SK first.

We're sure on the SK and not a vig? Been only 1 kill a night except Messiah dead.

[PeregrineV]

Still voting Mara right now. We lynching you instead, Bert? or bulba?

[PeregrineV]

Lol@Molla, Anatole- not claiming vig, although I will speculate on who I would have shot if I were. Messiah (good shot!), Pie, Mara.

If I were cop, Bulba, Molla, kcadspot/Bert.

If I were doc, Jeesh, Jeesh, Jeesh/Tammy.

[PeregrineV]

Limited Access until Tuesday July 15

[PeregrineV]

Limited Access until Tuesday July 15

Yeah, *&#%ed that up

Limited Access until Tuesday July 22

[PeregrineV]

Officially back today, but piled up work. Checking in.

[PeregrineV]

Can someone sum up the last 6 pages? Unless anything changed, still want out of Bulba/Mara/Bert, Molla & Anatole are town through play, Tammy/Studio are town via claims.

[PeregrineV]

Can someone sum up the last 6 pages? Unless anything changed, still want out of Bulba/Mara/Bert, Molla & Anatole are town through play, Tammy/Studio are town via claims.

If I didn't read who posted this, I would think it's Mara because this is exactly what Mara sounded like!

Thanks for your complaint ABOUT the question without answering it. Noted.

[PeregrineV]

What I liked about Peregrine was him recognizing that Bane was town based on his frustration, but that could also be a product of the multi set up.

I liked some of his early stuff, but I'm kinda concerned about his position that Bert was just riling me up. It feels like a totally different position than how he was in Tales of when I got riled up and he thought I was scummy for it. :/

IDK

Yeah, but this time you claimed to have BP vest shot off after another player claimed to have given you the BP vest. And the other person that died that night was scum, therefore you pretty much can't be.

So, act scummy all you want, or don't, but there is no point in suspecting you when your not scum.

[PeregrineV]

Also, has anyone else played with singer? I rarely have but I didn't get the impression she was a self-town declarer especially for no reason. Does anyone know if that is her style?

Not in a long while, so not even going to try anything meta related.

[PeregrineV]

My ability to give a vest, at the least, has been confirmed. I like to think my alignment should go along with it, but what do I know.

I would be hard-pressed to think you gave your scum-BPvest to a townie who you shot the night before.

[PeregrineV]

Selfvoting as scum isn't against your wincon unless it's the hammer and your buddies are dead, it's an ATE-based gambit~

I literally just said that. And since we're assuming one mafia left and one SK, if someone has quick hammered it would've absolutely been against his wincon. Shitty gambit and I hope I never have to play with someone who's willing to put a team wincon on the line like that.

That being said, I still don't know what the correlation between AKtown=Bulbtown is...

Anatole claimed jailkeeper who jk'd bulbazack last night. If he is a jailkeeper and there are two deaths tonight then he's confirmed town barring I guess some special role that avoids jail keepers?

I think I get this. If Anatole jailkept Bulba, then Bulba couldn't town-doc (hence 2 kills) or scum-kill (which means there shouldn't be 2 kills- if there is then Bulba/Anatole are confirmed town?)

Is this sound right?

[PeregrineV]

I really really want to say Peregrine but he just lurks in my last few past games with him...I don't know!

You keep repeating this as if that will make it true, but it won't, Nemo, it won't.

[PeregrineV]

Do you have questions for me?

I'm just very apathetic towards this game

And I know that doesn't make sense cause we're probably in a good spot, but I'm lost readwise.

Singer, if we're both town, who would that leave open option wise for scum?

Who do you think is mafia? Why?

Since we are apparently SK hunting also, who is the SK? Why?

[PeregrineV]

If we are leaving both Anatole/Bulba alive for confirmation, then I'll drop the Bulba-lynch today.

Singer

, I like how you come in with a positive attitude and asking questions, but would like to see your conclusions so far. ie reads as they stand now.

Molla

- I don't think this is you-scum. I've played scumwith you-scum, and town with you-scum, and this seems you-town. The worse thing against you was Pie's "lynch Molla" WIFOM right before he hung. Why do you think he bothered doing that knowing he would die and flip scum?

[PeregrineV]

peregrine, why are you skeptical about there being an SK still?

Becasue fo this:

Dead:

VictorDeAngelo, VT, was lynched Day 1.

Wake88, Town Tracker, was lynched Day 2.

These would be the night1 kills that came across night2.
Messiah Complex, Mafia Goon, was killed Night 2.
<Tammy/Studio BP claim> since they are not both scum, accept as truth, then Tammy-Bane was scum target.

InflatablePie, Mafia 2-Shot Roleblocker, was lynched Day 3.

This would be the night2 kills that came across night3
Dr Pants, VT, was killed Night 3.
Is this the mafia or SK nightkill? Or both? You jailkept Molla, was he protected or blocked? Bulba protested JeeshStudio, were they the missing kill?

Multiball (mutiple scum factions/SK) is usually not assumed until proven. TO that end, I'm not seeing proof.

[PeregrineV]

That leaves you.

Fair enough, since given what Mara left you, you have a high chance of being scum IMO.

[PeregrineV]

Multiball (mutiple scum factions/SK) is usually not assumed until proven. TO that end, I'm not seeing proof.

Explain Messiah dying

A non-mafia killing role.

[PeregrineV]

peregrine, why are you skeptical about there being an SK still?

Becasue fo this:

Dead:

VictorDeAngelo, VT, was lynched Day 1.

Wake88, Town Tracker, was lynched Day 2.

These would be the night1 kills that came across night2.

Messiah Complex, Mafia Goon, was killed Night 2.

<Tammy/Studio BP claim> since they are not both scum, accept as truth, then Tammy-Bane was scum target.

InflatablePie, Mafia 2-Shot Roleblocker, was lynched Day 3.

This would be the night2 kills that came across night3
Dr Pants, VT, was killed Night 3.
Is this the mafia or SK nightkill? Or both? You jailkept Molla, was he protected or blocked? Bulba protested JeeshStudio, were they the missing kill?

Multiball (mutiple scum factions/SK) is usually not assumed until proven. TO that end, I'm not seeing proof.

lol...yes, I did see that. Probably not suicide.

Then talk about "missing kill" for night2/3.

[PeregrineV]

I'd really like to not lynch the claimed JK? Please? Tomorrow will theoretically have the information needed to parse through them.

Anatole and I are willing to vote PV. I am currently voting PV.

A non-mafia killing role.

massclaim was done a while back and no non-mafia killing role claimed

Yes.

Vote: Bert

Tell me more.

[PeregrineV]

pere I'd advise you to claim vig if you are, or you're probably going to get lynched. if you aren't, I don't think there is one. you are the only one that seems to think a vig is more likely

There's a reason why I think that.

Fine.

1-shot vig, shot Messiah's scummy ass night1.

[PeregrineV]

why wouldn't you say that before?

We are down to one scum left, and not a big fan of claiming unless necessary, and it wasn't and shouldn't be necessary now.

[PeregrineV]

peregrine, why are you skeptical about there being an SK still?

Becasue fo this:

Dead:

VictorDeAngelo, VT, was lynched Day 1.

Wake88, Town Tracker, was lynched Day 2.

These would be the night1 kills that came across night2.
Messiah Complex, Mafia Goon, was killed Night 2.
<Tammy/Studio BP claim> since they are not both scum, accept as truth, then Tammy-Bane was scum target.

InflatablePie, Mafia 2-Shot Roleblocker, was lynched Day 3.

This would be the night2 kills that came across night3
Dr Pants, VT, was killed Night 3.
Is this the mafia or SK nightkill? Or both? You jailkept Molla, was he protected or blocked? Bulba protested JeeshStudio, were they the missing kill?

Multiball (mutiple scum factions/SK) is usually not assumed until proven. TO that end, I'm not seeing proof.

So, anyways, I stick to my opinion of Bert, Bulba, singer for scum.

Town for Tammy/Studio

Probtown for Anatole/Molla (Anatole even more for claim).

[PeregrineV]

how'd you guess messiah?

Stuff like his 419and 421. I decided to shoot him in 449 after I looked at the wagon makeup.

[PeregrineV]

Like there is no way we have all five of these town power roles.

I say lynch Anatole, and if wrong, lynch Bulba.

*shrug*

Why that order?

[PeregrineV]

VC 4.6 (7/24/14 morning)
PeregrineV (L-5)
Bulbazak (L-5)
Anatole Kuragin (L-2) Bulbazak, Bert, Studio 54
Bert (L-5)
Studio 54 (L-5)
Tammy (L-5)
Bbmolla (L-4) Singersigner
Singersigner (L-3) PeregrineV, Bbmolla
No Lynch (L-5)
Not Voting (2) Tammy, Anatole Kuragin

Deadline is TODAY at 6pm EDT. Remember, if no target is chosen, it's a no lynch. With eight alive, it's five to lynch.

Here's the last one.

[PeregrineV]

I think Bulba is townier than Anatole

But I keep going back and forth.

Yeah, how is Bulba townier than Anatole?

[PeregrineV]

pere I'd advise you to claim vig if you are, or you're probably going to get lynched. if you aren't, I don't think there is one. you are the only one that seems to think a vig is more likely

There's a reason why I think that.

Fine.

1-shot vig, shot Messiah's scummy ass night1.

The better play would be maybe to just roll with it until necessary?

I guess I was also under the impression that there was a massclaim, which doesn't seem to be the case.

How do you feel about lynch all liars, PV? Did you not claim VT?

Sure, when necessary. And if I mis-shot, I probably would have, since it would give us better info.

Policy lynches on day4? Pretty subpar, to be be frank.

[PeregrineV]

Molla, don't be stupid. We have 2 conf. scum and a clear path to a win. Anatole is scum, because there's no way there's both a JK and a doc in this game. I'll 1v1 her on this. Also, the way she's treated my claim is super scummy. Then we have PV, who just claimed 1-shot vig under pressure. However, if that was true, why didn't he claim d3 after it was shown the Messiah kill went through? Heck, why didn't he claim during massclaim? There was no reason to hide it on either occasion. Look at it from what should have been his perspective if 1-shot vig. He has proof that he's town. There's proof that Tammy is town, and by extension, Studio. That's a solid 3 person town block and enough to start destroying the scum team via PoE, especially considering the timeshift mechanic. Him claiming would have been the best course of action. Instead, he holds onto that information and doesn't let it out until a lot of pressure comes his way, and it looks like everyone is okay with his lynch. Why? What's the town motivation? The answer is that there is none, but there is a lot of motivation via survivalism if he's a SK. Anatole is final mafia. PV is SK. Game solved. Let's lynch them and go home.

Except there was a solid 5 person townbloc. Then, replacement time. I know I'm still town, Bane/Tammy, Jeesh/Studio, Anatole, Molla.

So, lynching you, Singer or Bert should REALLY solve the problem, right?

[PeregrineV]

Lol, trying to sluff that off as a policy lynch is pretty weak. This is beyond poor play for a town vig. You had to know what town would've thought by not claiming and if you were really town, you'd have made sure they were working with the correct information.

I'm voting soon.

If I shot town, I claim it, so we know the scum kill.
Since I hit scum, I've doing something right, so the claim wasn't necessary.
if your not lynching me because I'm scum but because I lied during massclaim, then your not scumhunting you are policy lynching. Pretty simple.

[PeregrineV]

This is beyond poor play for a town vig.

Nah, poor play is shooting town (even if they deserve it)

[PeregrineV]

Bulba being scum hunting scum would make a lot of sense for how he's gone after pere, who is the most likely SK if there was one, and trying to lynch me as a protective role.

What if Bulba is mafia or sk with rolecop/tracker/watcher? He has been weirdly going after me for shitty reasons all game, but I would think if he knew I was a PR he would have just night killed me. Maybe I looked like an easy lynch?

I'm not down with a policy lynch

Don't think anybody thought you were a PR until you claimed. You've had votes on you most of day2 and day3.

[PeregrineV]

So, lynching you, Singer or Bert should REALLY solve the problem, right?

lynching down the list - what if there's no scum in there and this 5 person townblock is wrong? then game over.

You've said or done nothing to dispute or change my mind about my townbloc, the 3 listed are scummy and haven't done much to change that opinion, plus they have done nothing previously to townbloc them, so confidence is high.
If we lynch one of those 3, and scum kill the other scummy one, then I guess I'll re-examine everything in the light of that. But, since I doubtr that will happen, there you have it.

Don't think anybody thought you were a PR until you claimed. You've had votes on you most of day2 and day3.

i don't see the relation here. how does "lots of people voting said PR" make you think others wouldn't think Anatole is a PR? A player under pressure is just as likely to be a PR as any other player not under pressure

I didn't say that. I said I didn't think Anatole was a PR. PRs tend to play less carefreely, and if you read the thread, Anatole is pretty carefree with his reads and his play. It's one of the reasons I townread him.

[PeregrineV]

You've said or done nothing to dispute or change my mind about my townbloc, the 3 listed are scummy and haven't done much to change that opinion, plus they have done nothing previously to townbloc them, so confidence is high.

this coming from the guy who for the last 14 or 24 pages asks for a recap of the last 6-8 preceding pages.

Yes, having read all 90 pages I feel distinctly qualified to place confidence in my reads. And getting other opinions to see how they see things lets me see into how they see things, which is harder for scum to fake.

[PeregrineV]

i just ctrl + fed for the word "summary" and got a ton of hits. have you read thee game? because there are a lot of things you havent commented on.

Really? Such as what?

[PeregrineV]

Lol, trying to sluff that off as a policy lynch is pretty weak. This is beyond poor play for a town vig. You had to know what town would've thought by not claiming and if you were really town, you'd have made sure they were working with the correct information.

I'm voting soon.

If I shot town, I claim it, so we know the scum kill.
Since I hit scum, I've doing something right, so the claim wasn't necessary.
if your not lynching me because I'm scum but because I lied during massclaim, then your not scumhunting you are policy lynching. Pretty simple.

Congratulations, if you're town, you've successfully eliminated the town's ability to scum hunt in the most efficient way.

How so?

To me, saying that claiming wasn't necessary is strictly self-sustaining because at worst, you eat a NK, and at best you very directly help the town. Did you really feel like you were god and needed to stick around to help us find the last scum by being the only one with that much working knowledge of the game? Like, I'm actually going to be more offended than angry if you flip town.

Are you genuinely saying that if I had claimed my role 10 pages sooner, that you would not be having these feelings of being offended by my claiming my role 10 pages later?
How does that work? Like the exact trigger from not offended to offended?

As for the rest, not god, yes stick around catch scum.

[PeregrineV]

a lot of my posts are half-frustration from voting and pressuring several people because I thought they might be SK. It was a total waste of time now that I know they couldnt have been an SK.

Yes, given the evidence (2162), I don't understand why you were hunting for an SK? Why presume one at all?

[PeregrineV]

a lot of my posts are half-frustration from voting and pressuring several people because I thought they might be SK. It was a total waste of time now that I know they couldnt have been an SK.

Yes. In a game with 1 mafiascum left, why the SK hunting? Why put yourself through all that, so to speak, when there is no evidence for it.

[PeregrineV]

OH my fucking gods.

THERE WAS EVIDENCE FOR AN SK BECAUS ONCE A FUCKING GAIN YOU DECIDED TO PLAY STUPID AND LIE ABOUT YOUR FUCKING ROLE.

Jeezuz fuck its like you never ever get it even game after gameof people getting frustrated over the way you refuse to be honest about your role, outright lie or just be cagey.

When everybody else tells you you tucked up it might just be because uou did.

I'll be happy to argue more about P2 & P3 post-game, but WHY was there evidence for an SK but not evidence for a VIG?

Why was there any evidence for anything other than a 1-shot vig?

You can't say "Same setup as last time" because it's already not.

[PeregrineV]

vig is one-shot

[PeregrineV]

OH my fucking gods.

THERE WAS EVIDENCE FOR AN SK BECAUS ONCE A FUCKING GAIN YOU DECIDED TO PLAY STUPID AND LIE ABOUT YOUR FUCKING ROLE.

Jeezuz fuck its like you never ever get it even game after gameof people getting frustrated over the way you refuse to be honest about your role, outright lie or just be cagey.

When everybody else tells you you tucked up it might just be because uou did.

I'll be happy to argue more about P2 & P3 post-game, but WHY was there evidence for an SK but not evidence for a VIG?

Why was there any evidence for anything other than a 1-shot vig?

You can't say "Same setup as last time" because it's already not.

A. We mass claimed
B. Nobody claimed vig

Like you can't be this stupid PV, wtf

*sigh*

I do what I think is right even if I'm horribly, horribly wrong later.

[PeregrineV]

Bulba, if you were scum, wouldn't your claim be convenient, like I said?

You haven't saved anyone or claimed to, which means it's not at all confirmable. How is mentioning that REMOTELY close to a point against me? This is the kind of dumb reasoning that your case is made of.

He's been voting you all of day2 also, as well as today, so I wouldn't sweat it too much. Another reason I'm willing to lynch him.

[PeregrineV]

VC 1.8 (5/30/14)
Bulbazak (L-5) VictorDeAngelo, PeregrineV
Bane (L-6)

Ms Kazekirimara

VictorDeAngelo

(Lynch) Anatole Kuragin,

InflatablePie, Messiah Complex

,

Kcdaspot

, Dr Pants, Bbmolla, Metal Sonic
Metal Sonic (L-6) Jeesh5
Ms Kazekirimara (L-5) Bane,

Bulbazak

We have a lynch.

----------

The crowd decides to lynch Victor. After killing him, he is revealed to be a:

Spoiler:

VictorDeAngelo, Vanilla Townie, was lynched Day 1.

It is now night. Night will end in 48 hours, Sunday morning at 8am EDT.

VC 2.9 (6/24/14)
Studio 54 (L-6)

Ms Marangal

Wake88

(Lynch)

Messiah Complex

, Dr Pants,

Bulbazak

, Studio 54, Tammy, Bbmolla,

InflatablePie

Ms Marangal (L-7) Wake88, PeregrineV
InflatablePie (L-7)

Bert,

Anatole Kuragin
Not Voting (0)

Lynch has been reached.

Wake88 has been lynched Day 2. He was a Town Tracker.

Night 2 has begun. Deadline is Thursday night at 8pm

VC 3.4 (7/7/14)
Bulbazak (L-5) Studio 54
Anatole Kuragin (L-5)

Bulbazak

InflatablePie

(Lynch)

Bert

, Bbmolla, Anatole Kuragin, PeregrineV, Dr Pants,

Ms Marangal

Not Voting (2)

InflatablePie

, Tammy

We have a lynch. My apologies again for the whole disappearing without notice thing.

Double-checking, but, yeah, based on vote positioning, Bulba still looks bad.

[PeregrineV]

ok sure let's 1v1 and CC

can you tell me what these things mean?

One on one- setting up a player A -OR- player B scenario where either YOU or BULBA is lynched.

CC- counterclaim

[PeregrineV]

why wouldn't you say that before?

We are down to one scum left, and not a big fan of claiming unless necessary, and it wasn't and shouldn't be necessary now.

That's bullshit. You claimed VIG in tales of when it wasn't necessary and you did that voluntarily.

No, because I shot Rancid and he flipped town. I didn't want people thinking he was the scumkill.

[PeregrineV]

Anatole is at L-2. PV is at L-4. However, I think Bert and I are willing to switch if 2 more people vote PV.

Or a Bulba lynch, if we are going to ignore the "let Bulba & anatole prove themselves" thing.

[PeregrineV]

2 minutes site time

[PeregrineV]

Sorry, not voting Anatole.

[PeregrineV]

FTR this reaction to my push for a mass claim makes no sense whatsoever from a VIG who claims to not liking claiming unless necessary and then decides to claim vt.

It was the way you said it. Distinctly 3-years-ago Tammy. You know I love your old meta.

[PeregrineV]

Monday post, but pretty sure Anatole's target choice should clear some people?

[PeregrineV]

Targeted pie, molla, and bulba. Feel free to confirm/deny if you've had your shit blocked, bb and bulba.

Pie was kept n1 (n2 resolved-Messiah dead n2))

Molla was kept n2 (n3 resolved- Pie dead d3)

Bulba was kept n3 (n4 resolved)

Tammy was kept n4 (will resolve n5)

Kind of in a hurry because of work, but doesn't this clear Molla & Bulba, as in they could not have done the kills those nights?

[PeregrineV]

PV is basically as conftown as tammy after last night, why would you think otherwise?

Nope, nope, and nope. With the timeshift mechanic muddling things up, plus my role, there's no way we can easily write off the existance of a SK, and if it does exist, it HAS to be PV.

Since this makes absolutely no sense, please elaborate.

Targeted pie, molla, and bulba. Feel free to confirm/deny if you've had your shit blocked, bb and bulba.

Pie was kept n1 (n2 resolved-Messiah dead n2))

Molla was kept n2 (n3 resolved- Pie dead d3)

Bulba was kept n3 (n4 resolved)

Tammy was kept n4 (will resolve n5)

Kind of in a hurry because of work, but doesn't this clear Molla & Bulba, as in they could not have done the kills those nights?

1)

How does Pie dying d3 clear Molla?

2)

It's like you somehow know Pie was supposed to die n3, and are using that inside information to appear town and clear a player (who is more than likely town). 3) This is the same type of slip as Anatole saying I hadn't protected anyone, when there was only 1 kill n3, compared to n2's 2 kills.

1)

I didn't say Pie dying clears Molla. I was pointing out that Pie died day3, so he would not be able to kill n4, but Bert pointed out that Pie being alive night2 means he could have made the Pants nk (happened n3, submitted n2).

2)

Pie was lynched day 3.

3)

What slip? Anatole claims he jailkept you night 3, so the fact that Studio died clears you, unless he's lying about jailkeeping you. If that's the case, then why bother?

You and Bulba have tunneled me for what I see as pretty weak reasoning, a) you don't believe my claim, or b) I am indecisive.

Yes, because saying that there is no way there are 3 town protective roles and that your role was ripped straight from the first game is such weak reasoning.

bulba's tunnels ARE ridiculous.

The more you discredit me, the more I know I'm right on the money.

Actually, most of this post makes little to no sense. Start at the beginning and walk through it step by step.

[PeregrineV]

Since this makes absolutely no sense, please elaborate.

Yes it does! You're not confirmed 1-shot vig! And if you're scum and not a 1-shot Vig/SK, then there's 99% an SK out there! That's really exciting!

You saying I could be scum has no meaning to me, since I'm not. But, walk me through the logic how I could be while shooting my partner.

Actually, most of this post makes little to no sense. Start at the beginning and walk through it step by step.

I have a proposal without a ring.

Hi guys let's all hold hands and walk through this game!



Let this become the cheerleading thread![/quote]
Yes!

[PeregrineV]

EBWOP:

Since this makes absolutely no sense, please elaborate.

Yes it does! You're not confirmed 1-shot vig! And if you're scum and not a 1-shot Vig/SK, then there's 99% an SK out there! That's really exciting!

You saying I could be scum has no meaning to me, since I'm not. But, walk me through the logic how I could be while shooting my partner.

Actually, most of this post makes little to no sense. Start at the beginning and walk through it step by step.

I have a proposal without a ring.

Hi guys let's all hold hands and walk through this game!



Let this become the cheerleading thread!

Yes!

[PeregrineV]

@Bulba

- going to break down your big post later, but you are saying I'm the SK because there was and SK in Timeshift I, and Anatole is scum because there was a Jailkeeper in Timeshift 1 but there isn't one in this game. If you are going to try to argue setup #2 base don setup #1, you can't use it to argue opposite sides of the coin.

You are also trying to argue that somehow, through the miracle of doc and timeshifting but not jailkeeping, that 3 night kills just didn't happen.

[PeregrineV]

The Timeshift mechanic makes it so that the actions performed on one night are carried out on the next. Therefore, it is entirely possible that a lynch could disrupt night actions, or in this case kills. Let's say, for example, that the SK tried to kill Pie on n2, when that action would be peformed on n3, it would fail, as Pie was already dead. Now add onto that the existance of my role, doctor. This means that on top of Timeshift potentially hiding kill targets, I could also be blocking them. Therefore, I don't think there's enough information with 2 plausible methods of stopping kills to write off the existence of a SK. And if there is a SK in the setup, it has to be you via claim, as there's no way your claim makes sense in any regard (Problem #1: I find it hard to believe that a 1-shot vig would not claim his shot after having killed scum with it. Given that there were 2 additional conf. town revealed that day due to night actions, I can't see how you wouldn't claim the kill and make the group 3 strong, which is strong enough to threaten the remaining scum through PoE. Your actions do not match a town thought process.

Actually, they do, since I had those thoughts and I'm town.
I usually keep my claims unless they provide more information to the town, or potentially can.
I consider myself town, Tammy town, and Anatole town (and nominally, you, through his claim, that's why we are having this conversation), so 4 is good enough for me. Before you, Studio was confirmed.

Problem #2: Let's say for the sake of argument that as town 1-shot vig you did the above. Why then would you not claim during massclaim? You claimed VT, which caused everyone to believe there was a SK, as no vig claimed. As a town 1-shot vig who has already used his slot and nailed scum, there should have been no deterrent to claiming. Instead, you led everyone to assume more scum than there were, which was an anti-town move. You only then claim 1-shot vig when severely pressured. Again, none of that comes from a town mindset.).

I think it became obvious that I shot Messiah, so leaving some doubt in scum's mind works for the best.
It was obvious there is no SK because no 3 kills night 1, only 1 kill since then.
Yes, you claimed to have super-docced them all away or any other given reason why they didn't happen. But, I'll stick to Occam's razor, simplest explanation is the most likely.
And despite this simple explanation, my lack of claim AND my eventual claim, there is still SK hunting going on. So, making the assumption that my actions in any way affected town's behavoir in that regard that is some sort of logical fallacy, and using it to argue just makes you look bad.

[PeregrineV]

1.) You seemed to be implying very heavily that Pie dying cleared Molla. Even if you got confused via the Timeshift mechanic, the assumption that Molla was cleared would have to come from Pie somehow.

No, I implied that nowhere. I pointed out that Pie was dead and so could not kill. Even if he could, chances are he would be roleblocking since that was his role.

2.) And? There's no reason why Pie couldn't have been a kill target n2 (to resolve n3), which would then fail to go through after he was lynched. In fact, if he was a kill target, only 1 person would know it: you.

Here you are saying Prove a negative. You want me to prove I didn't know that Pie would die n2 or 3 or whatever. You can't really prove a negative, but 1518. If you want to say I'm mafia, then I bussed my buddy after shooting him also. If you want to say I'm SK then I gave up a perfectly good town-Anatole lynch to vote someone you claimed I already shot.
But, keep piling on bad logic, Bulba.

3.) When Anatole was trying to discredit me, he said that I hadn't protected anyone. However, at the time, we only had 2 nights worth of information. He was right about n2 (where I was protecting the Jeesh slot), but he had no way of knowing that n3, since we only had 1 kill, and there were several possibilities of how a second kill could have been blocked (keep in mind that at this point all evidence pointed to a SK, as you still hadn't fake claimed vig).

I don't even get what you are saying here, but my point is that if Anatole is scum, why bother claiming he jailkept you knowing Studio would die and that would clear you from making the Studio kill? If scum Anatole wanted to get rid of you, then he doesn't clear you, he "jailkeeps" Tammy and then blames you for the Studio kill.

[PeregrineV]

But if you weren't the SK, then that means that you didn't shoot your partner. Why then did you immediately jump to that and ignore the attempted Bane/Tammy kill?

You lost me here too. Tammy was protected by the BP vest given by Jeesh/Studio. Messiah was not protected from my kill.

[PeregrineV]

@Bulba

- going to break down your big post later, but you are saying I'm the SK because there was and SK in Timeshift I, and Anatole is scum because there was a Jailkeeper in Timeshift 1 but there isn't one in this game. If you are going to try to argue setup #2 base don setup #1, you can't use it to argue opposite sides of the coin.

You are also trying to argue that somehow, through the miracle of doc and timeshifting but not jailkeeping, that 3 night kills just didn't happen.

1.) I am not using the previous Timeshift to say anything about the SK. In fact, if you look through any of my past arguments, I don't mention the previous game once in connection with the possibility of a SK in this game. I'm saying that the sequence of events leading up to your claim and the thought process behind those events don't make sense coming from town. They do make sense coming from scum, in this case, a SK. And given only 3 nights of information, only 2 of which didn't have an immediate explanation for a lack of second kill (the first one did as it was blocked by Studio), I think it's far too early to write off the existence of a SK, especially when there are explanations that would account for the lack of kills.

2.) I am not saying that Anatole is scum because JK was in the first game. That's a strawman. What I'm saying is that there's no way there are 3 protective roles in this game, and seeing as how Studio was town and proven town d2, that leaves Anatole as scum. And the JK claim is an easy fake claim, simply because it existed in the first game, meaning she didn't have far to go to make up the role.

3.) Please explain to me how you think 3 protective roles exist in a power light game with a mechanic that can actually block kills, and yet, a SK can't exist because we haven't seen said kills? I really want to know how you think 3 protective roles can exist in a setup with a mechanic that can, by itself, block kills makes any kind of sense.

1) see above post

2) see above post

3) No clue/don't care. I'd argue normal and balancing setups for a normal game, but with this mechanic, it seems like more trouble than it's worth. I think there is 1 scum left, you think something else. You go for it, but any effort to convince me I'm something other than my role PM won't work.

[PeregrineV]

The reason we're still "SK hunting" is because of all of that. We're saying that all of that adds up to us trying to decide if YOU are the SK because you've planted a seed of doubt that you don't necessarily have what's in the town's best interest at heart by allowing them to work with as much information as they could have had.

So yes, your actions very much affected the way we're continuing to look at it. Not admitting that it was a very selfish play as town just makes YOU look bad.

I claimed VT, SK hunting.
I claimed my vig shot, SK hunting.
Kill pattern shows 1 scumkill a night, SK hunting.

If you decide I'm suddenly leading this town, then you can tell me who is scum out of you, Bert & Molla. You can also try for Anatole, but good luck with that.

[PeregrineV]

I usually keep my claims unless they provide more information to the town, or potentially can.

Ok, so you're a 1-shot vig who hit scum, and there is evidence of 2 kills. Town knows that there is either a SK or a vig. Why then would you keep that information to yourself? Your decision does not make sense coming from a town mindset, because you would have purposely chose to keep town in the dark and looking for a SK. Add to the fact that you know how powerful a tool PoE can be, and town having 3 conf. town would have set the odds heavily in favor of a town win. But yet again, you avoid doing so. Your actions don't come across as town motivated, but as scum, because your moves have been motivated by survival only, hence why you claimed when you did.

I think it became obvious that I shot Messiah, so leaving some doubt in scum's mind works for the best.

How was it obvious that you shot Messiah? And if it was obvious, how then could scum have any doubt?

It was obvious there is no SK because no 3 kills night 1, only 1 kill since then.

That's exactly why you could only be a SK if scum, because there were 2 kills and not 3. There are several different ways that a second kill could have been blocked, as I've said before. Plus, if you honestly believe that there are 3 protective roles, you should not be a strong advocate of "no SK because there's only been 1 kill per night".

And despite this simple explanation, my lack of claim AND my eventual claim, there is still SK hunting going on. So, making the assumption that my actions in any way affected town's behavoir in that regard that is some sort of logical fallacy, and using it to argue just makes you look bad.

Your actions did affect the town's behavior. You say you're a 1-shot vig who hit scum n1, yet you didn't claim after that flip, leaving town with very little claimed conf. town. This in turn left town completely in the dark when trying to lynch scum, and being able to eliminate you from the pool early on would have helped with associations. And let's not forget that with an extra kill, we now had to consider the possibility of a SK, a possibility that you refused to take away. You kept town in the dark by choice, which affected how we played. Then, during massclaim, you claimed VT rather than vig. With no vig claim, that left us with only the possibility of a SK left, which affected how we hunted. You only then claim vig when pressured, and now you are wondering why we suspect you? Saying that your actions didn't affect town's behavior is a load of bull.

But if you weren't the SK, then that means that you didn't shoot your partner. Why then did you immediately jump to that and ignore the attempted Bane/Tammy kill?

You lost me here too. Tammy was protected by the BP vest given by Jeesh/Studio. Messiah was not protected from my kill.

My point has always been that you are only scum if there is a SK, i.e. you're the SK. You responded by saying that you couldn't be Mafia, because that would mean that you killed your partner. I then pointed out the dissonance in your logic: That if I thought you had killed Messiah, I wouldn't have considered you to be Mafia. So the question was, why did you ignore the attempted Tammy kill, because that would have been the kill you committed if Mafia? Let's add in the fact that I never said you were Mafia, and that I've always held that you were SK. You essentially took bad logic and tried to disprove a point I never made, which was sort of strawmanning my argument, since I never said you were Mafia.

I claimed VT, SK hunting.
I claimed my vig shot, SK hunting.
Kill pattern shows 1 scumkill a night, SK hunting.

You claimed VT and no one else claimed vig. Of course we were going to SK hunt.
You only claimed vig once pressure started being applied to you. At that point, it was decided that if there was a SK it HAD to be you, and it was because of your actions that the determination was made.
2 claimed protective roles + 1 conf. protective role + timeshift mechanic, all of which you believe. 2 nights of 1 kill is not enough to establish a pattern of no SK existing, especially when there are too many ways that such a kill could have disappeared.

I'd lynch molla over you but you continue to think your play was perfect or obvious when at LEAST one town is quite disappointed and would've preferred to not be misguided. Regardless of if you were trying to confuse scum or not, you also confused town, who had even less information to work with.

I'm just really annoyed with this whole distraction at this point.

Why aren't you voting him? Heck, why aren't you voting anyone?

When you dudes talk about killing him for information, do you mean just confirming that he is a 1-shot vig rather than an SK? We've only gotten one kill except for one night, I don't really see why it's considered likely he would be SK > vig still.

I really don't understand how you, as a jail keeper, continues to so blindly believe that all the claimed roles are real. The only night that a second nightkill is accounted for is night one with me being the mafia kill.

Supposedly you're a jail keeper who's been jail keeping people each night and you are like "there's not a second night kill so there's probably not an sk". Like that makes no blasted sense to me. You are claiming that you believe Bulbazack and he's a doctor. Bulbazack has claimed to heal people each night and you are claiming to jail keep people each night. What makes you think that's not responsible for a missing kill?

And really it doesn't seem weird to you that we have all these power roles running around???

That's why I think Anatole and PV are scum. Anatole is believing everything way too easily, and PV's logic doesn't add up, as he says he believes all the roles, but then argues that there couldn't be a SK, because we've only seen 1 kill for 2 nights, even though all the roles that he believes exists could have stopped that kill (and let's not even get into how his actions don't add up for his claimed role).

I started reading this but all you did was repeat your previous post, of which my answers are now being quoted. Don't feel like circular quoting, so "You go, Bulba!" is my answer.

[PeregrineV]

@Anatole, please confirm that you jailkept Bulba and thus he could not have committed the Studio 54 kill.

Once that is done, and confirmed, then my choice for scum would be Bert, then Molla/Singer (toss-up at this point).

[PeregrineV]

@Anatole, please confirm that you jailkept Bulba and thus he could not have committed the Studio 54 kill.

Once that is done, and confirmed, then my choice for scum would be Bert, then Molla/Singer (toss-up at this point).

Yeah, figured.

Vote: Bert

[PeregrineV]

And if it was obvious, how then could scum have any doubt?

What and where did scum doubt?

[PeregrineV]

I usually keep my claims unless they provide more information to the town, or potentially can.

Ok, so you're a 1-shot vig who hit scum, and there is evidence of 2 kills. Town knows that there is either a SK or a vig. Why then would you keep that information to yourself? Your decision does not make sense coming from a town mindset, because you would have purposely chose to keep town in the dark and looking for a SK. Add to the fact that you know how powerful a tool PoE can be, and town having 3 conf. town would have set the odds heavily in favor of a town win. But yet again, you avoid doing so. Your actions don't come across as town motivated, but as scum, because your moves have been motivated by survival only, hence why you claimed when you did.

I think it became obvious that I shot Messiah, so leaving some doubt in scum's mind works for the best.

How was it obvious that you shot Messiah? And if it was obvious, how then could scum have any doubt?

It was obvious there is no SK because no 3 kills night 1, only 1 kill since then.

That's exactly why you could only be a SK if scum, because there were 2 kills and not 3. There are several different ways that a second kill could have been blocked, as I've said before. Plus, if you honestly believe that there are 3 protective roles, you should not be a strong advocate of "no SK because there's only been 1 kill per night".

And despite this simple explanation, my lack of claim AND my eventual claim, there is still SK hunting going on. So, making the assumption that my actions in any way affected town's behavoir in that regard that is some sort of logical fallacy, and using it to argue just makes you look bad.

Your actions did affect the town's behavior. You say you're a 1-shot vig who hit scum n1, yet you didn't claim after that flip, leaving town with very little claimed conf. town. This in turn left town completely in the dark when trying to lynch scum, and being able to eliminate you from the pool early on would have helped with associations. And let's not forget that with an extra kill, we now had to consider the possibility of a SK, a possibility that you refused to take away. You kept town in the dark by choice, which affected how we played. Then, during massclaim, you claimed VT rather than vig. With no vig claim, that left us with only the possibility of a SK left, which affected how we hunted. You only then claim vig when pressured, and now you are wondering why we suspect you? Saying that your actions didn't affect town's behavior is a load of bull.

But if you weren't the SK, then that means that you didn't shoot your partner. Why then did you immediately jump to that and ignore the attempted Bane/Tammy kill?

You lost me here too. Tammy was protected by the BP vest given by Jeesh/Studio. Messiah was not protected from my kill.

My point has always been that you are only scum if there is a SK, i.e. you're the SK. You responded by saying that you couldn't be Mafia, because that would mean that you killed your partner. I then pointed out the dissonance in your logic: That if I thought you had killed Messiah, I wouldn't have considered you to be Mafia. So the question was, why did you ignore the attempted Tammy kill, because that would have been the kill you committed if Mafia? Let's add in the fact that I never said you were Mafia, and that I've always held that you were SK. You essentially took bad logic and tried to disprove a point I never made, which was sort of strawmanning my argument, since I never said you were Mafia.

I claimed VT, SK hunting.
I claimed my vig shot, SK hunting.
Kill pattern shows 1 scumkill a night, SK hunting.

You claimed VT and no one else claimed vig. Of course we were going to SK hunt.
You only claimed vig once pressure started being applied to you. At that point, it was decided that if there was a SK it HAD to be you, and it was because of your actions that the determination was made.
2 claimed protective roles + 1 conf. protective role + timeshift mechanic, all of which you believe. 2 nights of 1 kill is not enough to establish a pattern of no SK existing, especially when there are too many ways that such a kill could have disappeared.

You go, Bulba!

[PeregrineV]

And if it was obvious, how then could scum have any doubt?

What and where did scum doubt?

You said that it was obvious that you shot Messiah, but you didn't claim to WIFOM scum.

It was obvious who my target was.

I did not claim because there was no reason to think there were any other killing roles. Except you still do. And you will probably keep repeating yourself to make it true, but it doesn't really make it true.

However, if it was so obvious, how could scum be made to doubt it was you?

Who else would scum think did it? And I don't mean me, personally, I meant my role.

Tell me why you or anyone would think anything other than 1-shot vig? (This has been asked and ignored multiple times, but hey, if someone accidentally answers it- then gravy)

You said because of you-doc, jailkeeper, BP vest, but at the same time YOU don't believe that setup exists. So the impossible setup stopped the non-existent kills.
I don't know why I didn't think of that sooner.

Those two thoughts don't gel.

They do. I shot Messiah night1. He died night2. Scum shot Tammy night1, she was protected on night2. Pretty simple.

In fact, the entire explanation doesn't make sense.

No, it's WAYYYYYYYYY more complicated. You can't explain how, it just is.

When asked to explain, you link back to your reasons for shooting Messiah, but at no point do you explain why that made it so obvious that you were the one who shot him.

Who else would scum think did it? And I don't mean me, personally, I meant my role.

Every single time I try to get clarification, you link back to the post I'm trying to get clarification on.

I actually explained it simply. You didn't like that.
I asked you to explain it to me complexly.
You proceeded to say that I am a Serial Killer and not a vig because there are missing nightkills because you or the guy you want to lynch as lying scum stopped them.
I said that makes no sense.
You claim why didn't I claim it earlier. I explained that I hit scum, so what's to explain.
You said townbloc, I said yes, I had 4

1/2

.
You come back to missing nighkills.
I ask you "what missing nightkills"
etc.
etc.

Your thought processes do not make sense.

That's OK, I've explained them, repeated them, and linked them. You can say they don't make sense, but since they really do from a logic standpoint, agree to disagree.

[PeregrineV]

OMG even though I've said this more than once and others have too.

Peregrine. We. Thought. There. Was. An. Sk. Because. No one. Claimed. VIG. You. Claimed. Vanilla. Fucking. Town. So. Without. That. VIG. Claim. The. Only. Logical. Conclusion. Was. That. There. Was. An. Sk. Not. A VIG. Making. The. Most. Min. Numbingly. Fucking. Stupid. Ass. Decision. To. Lie. At. Massclaim.

I swear to god is you claim that stupid ass fucking bullshit that we should have believed there was a VIG when you goddamn fucking lied I will pummel you.

And what's more you didn't "come clean" until you were being pushed for a lynch, so since you already fucking lied, how can we know you're telling the truth now.

Like this isn't complex, you're not a moron even though gods do you do dumb ass shit. Stop fucking acting obtuse.

Every single person here is telling you you were wrong to do what you did.

Hey guess what that means?

You're the wine in the fucking wrong.

If you're town. If you are the sk, please continue playing the most stupid ass person on the planet!

I apologize for not claiming my role during the massclaim.

It doesn't change my opinion about anything I said.

[PeregrineV]

Not to mention the serial killer case that was made on me because of his stupid lies and the complete wrench it through in this game and the momentum.

Who made that case? What was the information at the time the case was made?

[PeregrineV]

Some of the other Pere comments I wish to discuss post-game.

[PeregrineV]

Not to mention the serial killer case that was made on me because of his stupid lies and the complete wrench it through in this game and the momentum.

Who made that case? What was the information at the time the case was made?

It was before bulbazack claimed doctor, Bert and Anatole made a case for me being the serial killer and were working to get me lynched for it.

I was out for most of that, but that's what I recalled. After last night, Bulba is off my table, but Bert is first, followed by Singer, followed by Molla.

[PeregrineV]

Hi my name is Bert, one of the two lynchables today given everyone's opinions. Nice to meet you.

There's Peregrine, the other lynchable. He has met you.

My favorite food is an enchilada pie, but close to it is stuffed eggplant.

I don't know what Peregrine's favorite food is, but I'm sure he'll like whatever you like given the circumstances!

Here, buzzer.

Question 1!

Who do you choose to vote for today?

Pizza. Spaghetti. A well-made sandwich. Anything delicious.

[PeregrineV]

I'm defending myself, not pointing out your faults! I think a lot of us are frustrated with PV.

I'm not. Even with repeating myself it's just annoying, not frsutrating. Pretty confident in a a town win this game.

I just want you to make a decision. Vote me or vote PV. OR express intent to vote. Intent to vote would be good. Is that really too much to ask??? A wagon came out of nowhere yesterday.

Interesting way to phrase it.

I think I've given my reads and reasons, as has Anatole. Bulba has given reasons why I'm SK, and Anatole is mafia.

What are your reads, and why?

[PeregrineV]

The scum's strongest weapon this game hasn't been misdirection or kills, it's been attrition.

It's still 6:1. I like those odds.

Also,

HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!

[PeregrineV]

I'm not. Even with repeating myself it's just annoying, not frsutrating. Pretty confident in a a town win this game.

I'm not confident at all, and in your pull of Molla Singer and I, if all of us flip town which is a distinct possibility, then what inspires your confidence

pool

Then Anatole I guess, since he cleared Bulba.

[PeregrineV]

I will shoulder your confidence, my children.

just kidding, I'm terrible at this game.

Meh. As long as you enjoy playing it.

[PeregrineV]

Venti Caramel Macchiato made with non-fat milk and with light whipped cream.

Thanks!!

[PeregrineV]

What is a black and white mocha?

My wife knows how many sytup pumps go into each, and she DOESN'T work for Starbucks.

Also, this. What does the black and white mocha mean? Dark chocolate and white chocolate?

[PeregrineV]

**syrup

[PeregrineV]

I haven't done iced coffee I think but once. Too weird.

Can do the Frappicino's. Coffee+milkshake+caffeine- it's almost like manna from heaven. Too easy to way over-indulge, though......

[PeregrineV]

would be good with whiskey

[PeregrineV]

Basically a combination of the white chocolate mocha and the regular chololate mocha. An iced venti size comes with six pumps of the syrup/flavor, so I would get three of each. This way I wouldn't have to pay the extra $.60 for the other sauce, because I'm substituting from what I'm already paying for.

Unless I'm working...then I get it for free anyway, lol.

Probably the only place you can leave work with more energy than you went in!!

[PeregrineV]

Can do the Frappicino's. Coffee+milkshake+caffeine-

it's almost like manna from heaven.

Too easy to way over-indulge, though......

helllllllllll yes. that stuff is lifesaving material, A++++++++++++



hey guys singer is getting us virtual drinks for free, yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay

ive never gotten beer or whiskey at starbucks...lol

You can now - http://www.starbucks.com/coffeehouse/st ... s-evenings

ginger beer is a soda, not real beer

and you have to bring your own whiskey

Ginger beer like root beer? (probably but made with real ginger? or just ginger flavor?)

[PeregrineV]

Yeah, ginger ale/beer is like root beer but is spicy and gingery - it's made by fermenting ground ginger root. This is starbuck's product - http://www.starbucks.com/menu/drinks/so ... afted-soda.

If you have a local whole foods or world market or something like that you should see if they have Reed's Ginger Beer

the Starbucks near my house (there are three...lol) has a sign about thier sodas. Maybe I'll see if they have it.

[PeregrineV]

Uh...what? Why?

Also, my store is a new store so we don't have the fizzio machine, yet.
If any of you try the root beer, I'd recommend adding a pump of vanilla...so good! Tastes just like old fashioned root beer.

A lot of the gas stations have the machines where you can add flavors. I added vanilla once, and man, is it easy to overdo it. Same with cherry flavoring.

[PeregrineV]

Replacing Tammy.

[PeregrineV]

Pretty much guarantee scum on my wagon.

A thorough double-checking with defender has indicated that timing patterns have cleared nobody that was previously cleared except for Tammy and Anatole. At least, 100% Tammy and 90% Anatole.

Good luck town!!!

[PeregrineV]

And my final post-hammer claim is IT WAS ALL MINE,

EVERYTHING

.

There may have been sharing, but I didn't block anything.

[PeregrineV]

I voted Anatole on day 4 though.

Gg town.

My replace in reads were really solid.

Sorry for replacing out. I really didn't have the patience to deal with Bert anymore.

I'm surprised Pere claimed vig in that situation.

Lack of scum nightkill was really cramping my chances of winning. I took a chance that by the time it was decided to lynch me, I could use my inst-kill and along with my prior night kill take it to the end. Probably wouldn't have worked, but shooting though all the town and all the scum wouldn't have worked either.

[PeregrineV]

Dead/Mafia qts?

Dead QT: http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/6CyY3bmNHd2S

[PeregrineV]

Timeshift is a pretty big inherent benefit for the town

Wellplayed there, too BTW. I had you down to die, but sure you were town, so there is that.

[PeregrineV]

Really enjoyed playing this game too. Timeshift made it tough, but all and all very enjoyable game. Thanks Defender for letting me play, and thanks for modding!!

[PeregrineV]

lol..I almost shot Pie n2 to die n3, but realized that would leave a lot less scum to hunting for.

[PeregrineV]

And we have our eight votes. The players have spoken:

Spoiler:

Bert

Spoiler:

Studio 54

Spoiler:

PeregrineV. One vote each for Bert, Studio, and Peregrine.

Spoiler:

Bulbazak

Spoiler:

Bert. Two votes Bert, one vote each Studio, Peregrine, and Bulbazak.

Spoiler:

Bulbazak

Spoiler:

Anatole Kuragin. Two votes each for Bert and Bulbazak, one vote each for Studio, Peregrine, and Anatole. Final vote...

Spoiler:

Bulbazak is our MVP!

LOL, I felt like I watching Survivor!!

[PeregrineV]

And we have our eight votes. The players have spoken:

Spoiler:

Bert

Spoiler:

Studio 54

Spoiler:

PeregrineV. One vote each for Bert, Studio, and Peregrine.

Spoiler:

Bulbazak

Spoiler:

Bert. Two votes Bert, one vote each Studio, Peregrine, and Bulbazak.

Spoiler:

Bulbazak

Spoiler:

Anatole Kuragin. Two votes each for Bert and Bulbazak, one vote each for Studio, Peregrine, and Anatole. Final vote...

Spoiler:

Bulbazak is our MVP!

LOL, I felt like I watching Survivor!!