Mini 1576 - Timeshift Mafia II - Endgame

[Anatole Kuragin]

VOTE: BBmolla

[Anatole Kuragin]

I am fairly certain that most people read only 1/2 my posts and make what up they

think

I would say for the rest.

Honestly, I have inattentive ADHD and posts consisting only of a bunch of questions are really difficult for me to get through.

I do

really read them all, but I can understand why some people would get tired of them. I get half way down the list and have to start over because I get confused. Also sorta feels like a power tripping kid who is a deputy hall monitor. If it works, keep it up though.

UNVOTE: VOTE: Metal Sonic

Metal's comments about a potential SK feel weird to me.

[Anatole Kuragin]

What's AtE?

this kills all credibility of posts you make, js.

You know some people who play this game don't scour every mafia scum wiki article, aren't philosophy major wannabes, and generally aren't exposed to academic rhetoric?

[Anatole Kuragin]

Also, he had no credibility to begin with.

Victor said a whole lot of nothing in this post: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p5894672

[Anatole Kuragin]

Exactly my point. I like you now

Yeah fuck it.

UNVOTE: metal

VOTE: VictorDeAngelo

[Anatole Kuragin]

Well, to clarify, I voted for him because of post #100, which I pointed out what completely pointless in the post before the one where I voted.

I wasn't saying "fuck it idgaf lynch anyone yolo." It was more, in response to metal's post, me saying "fuck it, I would rather vote for victor all things considered."

but whatev idgaf yolo

[Anatole Kuragin]

Trying to catch up here after being gone all weekend - I'm reading Jeesh and Kaze both as likely town so maybe you guys should probably stop bickering and work together?

[Anatole Kuragin]

Sorry, been pre-occupied and this has been a particularly hard game for me to crack into on day one because it's my first mafia game in years.

I think Peregrine, House Targaryen, and Pants are town after looking at their ISO. Pants and Peregrine give what I see the most sincere, consistent scumhunting vibe and Metal probably wouldn't have replaced out if he was scum, especially since with the delayed timeshift stuff, there's not really a reason for scum to just give up and quit. I like Bane because he more or less agrees with my analysis on the players I've really dug into.

I'm going to VOTE: Kaze. This post in particular gave me a scummy vibe because it's just "if I were x, I would do z" sidestepping. http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 1#p5912691 Her and jeesh's back and forth over 20 pages also made me want to just cut my fingers off rather than read through it all.

[Anatole Kuragin]

That's very generic.

Peregrine seems to genuinely be looking for scum without being opportunistic, wishy-washy, or using blatant logical fallacies. Basically good, generic town behavior or perfect scum game.

[Anatole Kuragin]

I'm leaning more towards House T overcompensating poorly for early perceived scum tells than actually exhibiting very scummish behavior. I still think he is probably town.

[Anatole Kuragin]

Anatole Kuragin, every time I see a post from you I think "Is he even in this game?" because I have seen so few of them.

Fix this.
~M

If I had two brains instead of one it would be much easier.

[Anatole Kuragin]

Oh well that's nice. I come back to see we're L-1.
I hate to tell you all this, but we're not scum.
We're Town Tracker. We were also part of the reason deadline got pushed back because we forgot when the deadline was and didn't submit on time.

~xofelf

All three of you forgot?

[Anatole Kuragin]

I'm leaning more towards House T overcompensating poorly for early perceived scum tells than actually exhibiting very scummish behavior. I still think he is probably town.

Hmm...

Unvote

Vote Anatole Kuragin

Is that supposed to be a case?

[Anatole Kuragin]

Why would you clarify it is only a pressure vote?

[Anatole Kuragin]

Why would you clarify it is only a pressure vote?

so that later people can't come back and bitch at me for voting you.

But don't you see why it's poor scumhunting since if you're telling someone you aren't planning to lynch them, they won't actually feel any pressure?

[Anatole Kuragin]

But you will, because the vote is still there. and I won't take it off till you're at L1, or it becomes a serious vote, or we find a better target (like Kaze), so if someone L1s you, then someone else quickhammers, our vote just unintentionally assisted in your lynch, which means there was plenty of pressure on you. So it's a vote that is still dangerous to you. So you should do your damnedest to get rid of it before it can harm you.

VOTE: Bane

This is not how a townsperson finds scum.

[Anatole Kuragin]

also I like how anatoejam is like, "hey where is your case bro?" to bulba but never comments on what I have said ever and I am the 1 leading the lynch on them.

I don't think you're scum so asking you questions is likely just going to lead to dense and unhelpful responses like the quotes comment.

[Anatole Kuragin]

Edit: Quoted** comment

[Anatole Kuragin]

I was waiting for scum to do something overtly scummy, and it worked.

On that note, you seem really vulnerable to "pressure votes" Bane.

[Anatole Kuragin]

Don't bother with the WIFOM. My slot is pretty much straight fucked now.

Don't care. Matter of principle. No selfvote tyvm.

VOTE: Kaze

[Anatole Kuragin]

Meant to quote the post where she calls Victor scum*

[Anatole Kuragin]

Sorry, really busy preparing for a trip. I also agree 100% with bane about the hydras.

I can give current reads now until I gt a chance for a re-read:

Townish: Peregrine, Jeesh (god he is obnoxious though), Pants Targaryen, Pie
Scummish: Kaze, Bulba, BBMolla, Messiah

[Anatole Kuragin]

VOTE: kazemara

Scum team is bane, mollie,

victor

[Anatole Kuragin]

So to clarify, your answer to what is scummy about my ISO is, "his ISO is scummy."

[Anatole Kuragin]

OK, so how have PEregrine and Pants been "sincere" in their scumhunting. This rings all kinds of bells.

Pants' ISO is 100 posts of almost entirely relevant and logical comments based on what we have. He doesn't blatantly spam (bulba) or aimlessly bicker or pester (kaze, jeesh) to look active or productive. He goes through cases logically, was the first to try to defend Kaze when the whole VT/PM/role text fiasco occurred which is town unless he is just blatantly aligning with a scumbuddy, and I see a Kaze/Pants team as pretty unlikely.

Pants' post #59 (#766) is very town in my opinion, in which he defends two people he could have easily joined wagons on - something he's done all game with multiple players. He did take part in the lynch of Victor, but even you, someone who joined after he was dead and confirmed good, said he was scummy. If Pants scum he's passed up a lot of easy lynches and opportunities to skitter by, instead being active and deductive.

Peregrine is similar to me - he hasn't made as many posts, and they're typically short, but they evoke a diligent, Socratic style of scumhunting which I happen to find useful. Highlights - #319, #438, #766, #644 are townie to me.

[Anatole Kuragin]

He doesn't blatantly spam (bulba)

Someone isn't paying attention and is trying to look useful.

I was asked a question, but whatever dude.

[Anatole Kuragin]

After today I will be v/la through monday. After that I will have more time to post. been spending most of my free time preparing for this trip

[Anatole Kuragin]

OK, so how have PEregrine and Pants been "sincere" in their scumhunting. This rings all kinds of bells.

Pants' ISO is 100 posts of almost entirely relevant and logical comments based on what we have. He doesn't blatantly spam (bulba) or aimlessly bicker or pester (kaze, jeesh) to look active or productive. He goes through cases logically, was the first to try to defend Kaze when the whole VT/PM/role text fiasco occurred which is town unless he is just blatantly aligning with a scumbuddy, and I see a Kaze/Pants team as pretty unlikely.

Pants' post #59 (#766) is very town in my opinion, in which he defends two people he could have easily joined wagons on - something he's done all game with multiple players. He did take part in the lynch of Victor, but even you, someone who joined after he was dead and confirmed good, said he was scummy. If Pants scum he's passed up a lot of easy lynches and opportunities to skitter by, instead being active and deductive.

Peregrine is similar to me - he hasn't made as many posts, and they're typically short, but they evoke a diligent, Socratic style of scumhunting which I happen to find useful. Highlights - #319, #438, #766, #644 are townie to me.

Way to completely ignore me asking you your read on me.

Shady as fuck.

missed it.

you're town

[Anatole Kuragin]

Home from vacation, planning on being active in the game now, sorry for the shitty play.

[Anatole Kuragin]

Some preliminary thoughts from a late full read-through I'm working on:

I'm really flattered that you guys are ascribing to scumplay what should be ascribed to me having never played a hydra game and being 400% confused by hydras and replacements.

Even as shitty as I am, I can see that House Targaryen is obviously town, what does that say about you guys?

[Anatole Kuragin]

Even as shitty as I am, I can see that House Targaryen is obviously town, what does that say about you guys?

Who's scum?

VOTE: BBmolla

Molla has gone for low-hanging fruit both days and still accuses others of doing the exact same thing.

Any overlap on Victor with the current Anatole and House T wagons should be suspect. This leads to Molla and Messiah.

[Anatole Kuragin]

I'm not going to switch my vote to Targ because I don't think he's scum. I would vote for kaze/mara or BB.

[Anatole Kuragin]

For the two on BB's wagon, Anatole Kuragin (hey you're from westeros but your break from mafia predates me and you didn't show up for game 100, so I don't know you just your name) and Pie, why are you reading BB as scum?

I played a few games there yeeeeeeeears ago, great folks.

[Anatole Kuragin]

For the two on BB's wagon, Anatole Kuragin (hey you're from westeros but your break from mafia predates me and you didn't show up for game 100, so I don't know you just your name) and Pie, why are you reading BB as scum?

I played a few games there yeeeeeeeears ago, great folks.

One of these days we'll get enough people to play another game there.

Why are you voting BB?

Because I'm pretty fucking confused in this game is the main reason.

He also seems like he's trying really hard for a mislynch - he's matter of factly said about half the people in the game are scum, his case against me in post #892 is reaching big time, flat out said he thinks your town for not voting him - indicating he's not interested in scumhunting, just spamming until someone gets lynched.

[Anatole Kuragin]

Because I'm pretty fucking confused in this game is the main reason.

Confused, how so? You felt pretty defined in saying you'd vote for Mara or BB today, and not House or anyone else.

I'm having a lot of time coming up with strong feelings for anyone as scum. I'm not very good at mafia and playing with lots of hydras and replacements in addition to the weird setup has made it even more difficult for me.

I do think I've got pretty good ideas on my townreads though.

[Anatole Kuragin]

I still think the bane/tammy slot is town, in addition to Pants, Targ, & Peregrine. I would vote for Pie actually, seems like he's cast a lot of doubt without actually following up on suspicions, and seems like with the Targ vote he's trying to get this (admittedly, grueling) day over with as soon as possible especially because anyone with a brain can see that Targaryen is innocent.

#1138 definitely feels like he is trying to undermine Tammy, who is starting to take a confident/leadership role since the replacement.

VOTE: InflatablePie

[Anatole Kuragin]

Is that supposed to be your defense for when House T pops up innocent?

[Anatole Kuragin]

VOTE: Inflatable Pie

Him and messiah gave eachother town/null reads without evidence all game.

look it up yourselves

[Anatole Kuragin]

You do an action and depending on what your pm says, it may or may not happen that night or the next night. What does that have anything to do with scum when there are obviously town players with both types of actions?

[Anatole Kuragin]

You're not very good at reading, are you?

[Anatole Kuragin]

To put that in a more productive way: I basically rephrased what you said (http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 1#p5976301) in the context of bert's confusion.

[Anatole Kuragin]

Want to explain how?

[Anatole Kuragin]

You're right, can I provide an edit so it's not considered buddying?

Hey idiot (bert). You do an action and depending on what your dumb pm says, it may or may not happen that night or the next night. What does that have anything to do with scum when there are obviously town players with both types of actions, dummy?

Does that fit your narrow view of how everyone should play this game?

[Anatole Kuragin]

Could you reach any harder for buddying in the first place?

[Anatole Kuragin]

Can I play the rest of this game only asking questions?

[Anatole Kuragin]

I'm now going to do my best to be as nice as possible this game just to spite the bullshit tropes and norms you people rely on for insight on the next mislynch. Will you all be my buddy?

First of all, Bert, I apologize for the rude things I said while trying to make a point to Bulba.

Bulba, I apologize for pointing out your inability to critically analyze text without channeling McCarthy.

[Anatole Kuragin]

It's an odd pattern I've noticed from Anatole, like when she called House obv. town yesterday when they were being ran up. She has a habit of calling players under suspicion obv. town while not adding much to the conversation.

Frankly, I read it more grammatically as:

What does that have anything to do with scum when there are, obviously, town players with both types of actions?

because of the adverb "obviously" and not the adjective "obvious".

Your reading of that sentence is correct.

I didn't even realize that is what Bulba was trying to argue here because it makes no sense. Regardless, Bulba, how is it scummy for me not to support your stupid mislynch?

[Anatole Kuragin]

(in reference to house/wake)

[Anatole Kuragin]

to be fair, I've hardly commented on anything

[Anatole Kuragin]

Hey Anatole, you said you are good at getting townreads. Who are your townreads?

Peregrin
Pants
Tammy
Studio 30 Rock
Molla

[Anatole Kuragin]

A bane kill by mafia night one is one of the dumbest choices possible, looking back. It doesn't make any sense.

[Anatole Kuragin]

well it's a good person to lynch, to be fair

[Anatole Kuragin]

Counterpoint without looking: Desp didn't do a single thing in this game that wasn't limp wristed. Should I thus assume he didn't bus anyone?

I can't say whether he was doing any distancing or not, but I don't think he was bussing anyone.

well it's a good person to lynch, to be fair

Wrong, he's a horrible person to lynch. I would be shocked if he flipped scum.

@Mod: I will be V/LA until July 7. I have family coming over (which I'm not really looking forward to), and a majority of my time is going to be devoted to entertaining them. Plus, this is the July 4 weekend, so I don't know how often I will be available.

Are you talking about inflatable pie? I'll put at least one beer on it

[Anatole Kuragin]

that's why it is called middle of the roading

[Anatole Kuragin]

Because he's scum and lying? You guys realize he hasn't flipped yet, right?

[Anatole Kuragin]

everyone just take a chill pill and watch the scum flip

[Anatole Kuragin]

My skepticism is reserved for people I'm not 95% sure on.

[Anatole Kuragin]

I wonder if this is the period defender spoke about where he would disappear for a few days

[Anatole Kuragin]

the world may end before twilight is over at this rate

[Anatole Kuragin]

breaking dawn prod dodge

[Anatole Kuragin]

You worried about somebody talking there, scooter?

[Anatole Kuragin]

So Bert, what was it you were going to say about Pants?

[Anatole Kuragin]

alright, I'll be honest, I don't even think I'm going to end up catching up in this game. this is what I get for falling too far behind. I'll try and skim starting from d2 and get my bearings back.

restating my reads from the last time I looked at the game thoroughly:

P5: town
Jeesh: town

Messiah: town

MsKaze: town
Bulba: town

Anatole: townish

Pie later tries desperately to get me lynched, poor guy

Kcda: townish

leaving MS (now

Targaryen

),

Pants

,

Bane

, and Molla as null or scummyish reads (notably Bane as my scummiest read, although tbh I forget why I thought he was scummy exactly.)

vote Bane

- placeholder til I get caught up

I would like to posit that the third mafia member is likely in that group of town/townish reads or null reads. Pie tries to get me killed, and tries for molla to a lesser degree.

If we're believing the vest story from Studio, which I do, we can eliminate jeesh from the list.

Pie's "reads" with strikethroughs for the ones that don't add up for being his partner or are already dead and color added for confirmed alignments:

P5: town

Jeesh: town

Messiah: town

MsKaze: town
Bulba: town

Anatole: townish

Kcda: townish

Molla:

null/scummish?

Bane:

null/scum?

That leaves us with Marangal, Bert, Bulba, and P5, whoever that is.

[Anatole Kuragin]

I think logically speaking there is probably a mafia member between Marangal, Bert, Bulba then, because I have a strong town read on P5.

[Anatole Kuragin]

I had Bert there because I was narrowing down Pie's town "reads" with knowledge we have. I don't see Bert as especially townie or scummy yet, just saying he would make sense as scum in the context of my above theory working backwards from Pie's list. The ones I crossed out either would have received very strong bussing, had a night interaction that points to town, or has flipped.

Bulba, Mara, and Bert are my potential lynches, but I'd agree with you that Bulba and Mara are more likely than Bert.

[Anatole Kuragin]

It would be a pretty baller move for all 3 scum to be on the Wake wagon.

Can anyone provide meta information as to Bulba's baller status?

[Anatole Kuragin]

Studio, check out Playing Card Mafia. That's what a scum Desp bussing a scum Bulba looks like, not the limp wristed crap Desp was pulling in this game.

He beat you to it.

I think this gives me more town vibes that he would point it out, doubt he would do that if he was doing the same thing with the same teammate.

Studio, check out Playing Card Mafia. That's what a scum Desp bussing a scum Bulba looks like, not the limp wristed crap Desp was pulling in this game.

Counterpoint without looking: Desp didn't do a single thing in this game that wasn't limp wristed. Should I thus assume he didn't bus anyone?

I can't say whether he was doing any distancing or not, but I don't think he was bussing anyone.

well it's a good person to lynch, to be fair

Wrong, he's a horrible person to lynch. I would be shocked if he flipped scum.

@Mod: I will be V/LA until July 7. I have family coming over (which I'm not really looking forward to), and a majority of my time is going to be devoted to entertaining them. Plus, this is the July 4 weekend, so I don't know how often I will be available.

Why the townread on Pie?

He was strongly scumhunting, and I've seen scum Pie in Shadows and Lights, and this isn't it.

I would think scum bulba would be more careful about statements like this.

I think based on the above we should probably ignore any reads Bulba has the rest of the game.

[Anatole Kuragin]

I concur about mara but it's a bit of an echo chamber in here and I would like to hear more from the other players before voting. I still like PV.

[Anatole Kuragin]

My Molla townread is strengthened due to the Pie flip. If scum were bussing, it's either Anatole or PV. Anatole, for the double vote, which looks more like show than anything else. PV, because his play in this game, IIoA included, doesn't seem the same as other games I've played with him as town. The scumhunting is not the same and is more mechanical. I don't really think he's scum with MC/Pie, but he could be a SK. Mara's lack of scumhunting is also concerning.

@Anatole: Why are you so concerned about voting Mara?

@Mara: Are you going to do anything else this game?

Just curious what other people have to say. Am I buddying again?

[Anatole Kuragin]

What is a double vote, bulba?

[Anatole Kuragin]

Your POE sucks, PV. The correct group is "Bulba, Anatole, PV". I'd lynch pretty much every player in the game before Bert.

What did I ever do to you?

[Anatole Kuragin]

I can only carry this town on my back for so long.

[Anatole Kuragin]

I can only carry this town on my back for so long.

Huh? You've carried?

Uh, yeah? What game are you watching...

[Anatole Kuragin]

I'm actually leaning back toward Anatole after his effort to try to dismiss my reads and then claiming to be carrying the town. He's about in the right place on the Pie wagon for bussing scum as well.

Remember your read on pie?

[Anatole Kuragin]

I'm actually leaning back toward Anatole after his effort to try to dismiss my reads and then claiming to be carrying the town. He's about in the right place on the Pie wagon for bussing scum as well.

This isn't entirely crazy either. I thought that claim was a joke, but if it's not then it's obviously ridiculous.

Mara is still town for her claim. Possibly also for the treatment of my slot.

Of course I was joking. This place can be so humorless sometimes.

[Anatole Kuragin]

I'm actually leaning back toward Anatole after his effort to try to dismiss my reads and then claiming to be carrying the town. He's about in the right place on the Pie wagon for bussing scum as well.

Remember your read on pie?

One bad read does not equal all reads are bad. I just need to be right once, not to mention that my other townreads are pretty on the ball.

I wasn't seriously suggesting that we all ignore everything you say the rest of the game. Just wanted to point out that you can be WAY off, because you are again.

[Anatole Kuragin]

Kaze, any last words?

Would you like to roleclaim?

Or do you want to wait until the train has moved onto Kirimara Ave and is rolling at full steam ahead?

Not that roleclaiming will do you any good.

I've found it's typically pretty hard for players of your alignment to roleclaim properly without looking incredibly, well.. like what they are.

Honestly, I think the only reason we're letting you roleclaim is because it's a common courtesy.

Do tell, was the slip earlier in the game intentional and purposed to through the game off track or are those actually your buddies?

We are VT

and the slip was intentional.

[Anatole Kuragin]

How is that claim anything but null

I don't think anyone suggested otherwise, at least not since jeesh replaced out

[Anatole Kuragin]

What is an IC

[Anatole Kuragin]

or we can lynch marangal who has checked out pretty much and denies coasting. lol.

I've gone back and forth between Mara and Bulba, but I think this is the right choice. I would quote the other posts I made at the beginning of the day as evidence, but I'm too lazy and this shit has been rehashed ad infinitum anyways.

VOTE: Ms Marangal

[Anatole Kuragin]

UNVOTE:

Can anyone who knows Mara better corroborate any of this? It seems sincere.

[Anatole Kuragin]

should we mass claim?

No.

I really don't see a downside to a massclaim at this point and a potential upside. Why don't you want to? Like we have no idea who scum killed last night so who will be killed tonight. Anyone who had any actions completed them last night, the mafia roleblocker has already been lynched and we could better evaluate the setup. If it's not mafia plus serial killer, we have one mafia left to find, and the information could help us take care of that today. That's a good thing.

The problem is that night actions in this game aren't as black and white as others, and there are multiple reasons why a kill might have failed last night, the target being lynched d3 being one of them. To massclaim now on the assumption that an action during the night stopped the kill is ignorance and a horrible idea that will cause more trouble than it's worth.

The reason I want to massclaim is simply because we have two scum dead

The mafia would benefit a lot more from a mass claim than we would.

[Anatole Kuragin]

Even worse if there is a sk - I'm pretty sure the last time shift game had one.

[Anatole Kuragin]

I see honest frustration. A townie with shitty contribution is still a town, just ask Anatole Kuragin. It's still one corpse closer to a loss if we mislynch her.

[Anatole Kuragin]

You've played a timeshift game before?

I see honest frustration. A townie with shitty contribution is still a town, just ask Anatole Kuragin. It's still one corpse closer to a loss if we mislynch her.

does that apply to your strong townread on Peregrine?

Who is scum?

Bert, Bulba, or Mara. I have ten days to figure out which. I still have a townread on Pere if that's what you're asking.

[Anatole Kuragin]

I don't understand the resistance to a massclaim, even if we have a serial killer.

We're down two scum. If we don't have a serial killer, we're only looking for one more person.

Also, if someone claims vig, and someone not claiming vig would give us a whole hell of a lot of information, if the game's not over when we lynch the third mafia, then we know it's a serial killer. Messiah Complex did not shoot himself, and if it's a vig, they have no reason not to claim that shot.

It gives us more information on the setup that way. I didn't say anything about a missing kill last night, but Bulba jumping to that makes me think if there is a serial killer then he's probably it and something happened to his shot.

There was only one death last night, which means either the vig is one-shot or something happened to their kill or they're a sk with an errant shot.

Mafia has ALREADY made their choice for who they killed last night, so it's not like they can go back and change it and kill someone different if someone claims something the mafia would rather have dead. They'll still be here.

If we have a better understanding of the setup, then maybe we can finish this today, unless there's a serial killer and our hunt will still go on.

Also, think about it. If it's a serial killer, he has no real interest in lynching the final mafia because then he's out there alone for the rest of the game. He'll want the last mafia around so that he has a better shot of winning the game.

I just don't see any downside whatsoever.

I am a Timeshifted Jailkeeper.

[Anatole Kuragin]

Oh, I was asking Anatole.

Even worse if there is a sk - I'm pretty sure the last time shift game had one.

Well, if the kills start aligning with these suspicions, then yeah...

Given how SK is used frequently on this site, I could see one in this setup too with that scum flip. It comes down to X-shot Vig or SK for that kill unless there's another explanation.

P-edit: But I thought you see "honest frustration" in Mara's posts lately.

I do - I also see towniness in Bulba's posts. These just dissuade me from locking a vote in immediately - I'm not giving either of them a "townread."

[Anatole Kuragin]

Targeted pie, molla, and bulba. Feel free to confirm/deny if you've had your shit blocked, bb and bulba.

[Anatole Kuragin]

I'm skeptical to kill bulba because if we wait until tomorrow and there is no mafia kill, we know he isn't the last mafia unless my block doesn't go through.

[Anatole Kuragin]

hesitant is a better word than skeptical

[Anatole Kuragin]

he could still be sk or something i guess

[Anatole Kuragin]

I submitted the action the night before each of these was resolved.

in order of resolution: pie (night 2), molla (night 3), bulba (night 4 (has not yet occurred))

One of the reasons I was skeptical to post roles is, since there was allegedly an instant vest (studio) and mafia are confirmed to have a roleblocker, they could THEORETICALLY have an instant roleblock (or instant anything for that matter).

[Anatole Kuragin]

don't know what the odds would be of them having two roleblocks or the balance implications or anything like that

[Anatole Kuragin]

in order of resolution: pie (night 2), molla (night 3), bulba (night 4 (has not yet occurred))

You choose Pie N1 as an action to resolve N2. Why?

Same for the other two choices.

I basically blocked people I thought were acting kinda fishy each day/OMGUS/was stoned.

[Anatole Kuragin]

I've never seen the role before and couldn't really tell if I should use it on people I thought were town or mafia if I had no idea of their potential power roles.

[Anatole Kuragin]

yeah it kinda seems like a shit role if you have no idea what is going on. I feel like I'm more likely to fuck something up than help

[Anatole Kuragin]

Town as fuck
Tammy
Bert

Town
BBmolla
Marangal

Literally forgot you were in the game again
PV

Lynch these
Anatole
Bulbazak

Why is bert town af?

[Anatole Kuragin]

Town as fuck
Tammy
Bert

Town
BBmolla
Marangal

Literally forgot you were in the game again
PV

Lynch these
Anatole
Bulbazak

Why is bert town af?

Studio?

[Anatole Kuragin]

I think that makes it more likely we're dealing with a SK than a vig. It's possible the missing kills could be from mafia/sk targetting people I was jailkeeping and there actually were two attempted kills each night? I didn't get a message saying they were protected like with the BP vest and I'm guessing bulba/molla didn't either? I guess they also could have been kills on people that ended up being lynched, or on the SK who had a 1 shot BP.

[Anatole Kuragin]

If Bulba claims VT and everyone else who has claimed VT is telling the truth, there will be 8 of them. I find that really unlikely considering how the last timeshift game went.

[Anatole Kuragin]

I don't think there's any other explanation that there is a SK. If that's so, it's one of the people who has claimed VT.

[Anatole Kuragin]

I don't think there's any other explanation other than that there is a SK.*

[Anatole Kuragin]

there is no way studio isn't town, given the tammy/vest thing bert

tammy could be sk/mafia but not studio

[Anatole Kuragin]

Okay, now, I want to claim that our rolepm matches one of the rolepms from Timeshift 1 word for word. (Which, by the way is a statement which is true, regardless of alignment or role, and which is intended to showcase a mechanic)

There's something that my other head, and every one else overlooked here.

Jeesh is showing no awareness that "member of the town" was a thing, right?

Here's the bombshell- member of the town is true for ALL the town roles, not just the VT roles.

HOIST THIS SCUM UP THE FLAGPOLE

Vote: Jeesh

(if this isnt obvious, this is klazhead, who's not as wordy as maruhead)

In case it isn't apparently obvious, I'm VT as well. This is why I believe Kaze on this.

If you disagree with me, it should be because you think that this thought process risks outing town PRs. However, gunning for Kaze was not a town friendly move. This is why I think you are scum and not a PR.

Also really? "You're far smarter than this"? Don't try me. Its hard tunnel time.

pedit @ Bane: I checked all of D3f3nd3r's games to see if that language was typical of him. He only used it in his earliest game. Additionally, Kaze didn't just start doing this, he's been dropping this hint all game.

WHAT THE FUCK

WHY DO WE HAVE ALL OF THE VT'S CLAIMING

YOU ARE ALL HELPING THE SCUM NARROW THE TARGET POOL

WHY IS THIS HAPPENING

THIS IS NOT OK

IF ANOTHER VT CLAIMS I SWEAR TO GOD

also why is this game only 2 pages y'all are boring

I can already see I am goign to severely hate your guts by the end of this game. Some of us have these thigns called a "Job". At these "Jobs" we do this weird activity called "Work". While we "Work" we don't always (READ: never) have access to a cell phone signal or internet that allows this website. Some of these "Jobs" make you "Work" until ten PM on a bad day, and four PM on a good day (god damn it is hard for me to use civilian time now, would any of you be offended/put out if I did all my times in 24 hour format?) and at the rate we're currently going that means I'd come home from work every night with over three new pages to catch up on. Instead of posting a bunch of short meaningless HUNDREDS OF POSTS like so far, lets post long walls of meaningfulness, once or twice a day.

personally I think going no-lynch is a bad idea. since nk's are delayed it essentially gives us a free day. we should probably use it.

Explain what you mean by "Free Day" please?

Nope still don't know who trickster is

I guess mollie qualifies to take applications then

Can I suck up to mollie for towncreds too??

Let me know when you're done~

Ms Kaze, I sincerely hope I am reading this post right. I took it as a sarcastic quip at Metal for his sucking up to her (which is blatant), implying that you want a turn to suck up to sarcastically. If you were being serious, please let me know.

Vote Jeesh5

Let's get this out of the way.

?

Mollie has a tendency to be paranoid about me, so I figured that we should get it out of the way early.

Why are people voting no lynch?

I like everyone too much so I didn't want to vote any of them.

I like everyone too much so I didn't want to vote any of them.

Will you vote for metal?

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Metal Sonic

I get why he's saying there is an SK but that's quite a leap. I'd assume One-shot vig is in play (especially with the fun of "I shot X, don't lynch them" possible.

This whole interaction screams wrong to me. BBmolla, what the fuck is this shit? "i like everyone! Unicorns and rainbows for all! Free ponies!" "hey could you pwetty please vote this person I am leading on please? Just because I asked? -bats eyelashes at you prettily-" "sure because I love everyone so I'll follow you anywhere and your pretty eyelash batting!" BBmolla, you aren't this bad. I've played with you before. What's going on here?

PV LINKED A PREVIOUS TIMESHIFT GAME WHICHH WAS ALSO HOSTED BY DEFENDER AND IT CONTAINED AN SK


HENCE SINCE THIA GAME IA ANOTHER REHOSTING IT CAN ALSO CONTAIN SK

FFS

Bro. Rage much? This is WAY to ragey for this early in the game, and over something as small as this. Save this rage level for when you're L-1 and you have three people arguing over who gets to hammer on you.

I have scum self meta in my gtkas go look there too ! <3

Mollie, you're partner is going to kill you

Pants/Sonic/Ms Kaze scum team, thoughts?

OMG WHY ARE YOU BUSSING WHY DID YOU REVEAL OUR WHOLE TAM IN THE THREAD HOLY SNAP

OMG I JUST SLIPPED ARGHHHHHAGAHAGAHAHGSH

Exactly my point. I like you now

Self Meta, WIFOM, AtE, Possible Bussing, is there ANY read you DIDN'T use on that page? What the fuck is this? Up until now, I didn't have a *huge* problem with you, but now VOTE: Metal Sonic because what the fuck. Also self meta can go jump in a porta potty.

VC 1.2 (5/15/14)
Not Voting (2)

13 alive, 7 to lynch. Deadline is the morning of 5/28/14.

@Mod: Would you mind terribly putting the names of those not voting next to the Not Voting log in the vote counts like you do with the names please? Thanks.

Spoiler: ShitTonOfQuestions

I mean, Pants/sonic/bulby

What made you consider this scum team?

Do you scum read them seperately?

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Metal Sonic

I get why he's saying there is an SK but that's quite a leap. I'd assume One-shot vig is in play (especially with the fun of "I shot X, don't lynch them" possible.

Why did you change your mind so quickly?

Cause no lynching is dumb

What made you change your mind on a no lynch?

shit the jig is up!

except Im not scum.

Also at this point, really Trickster? you're suspicious of me because I said: "this is just how he plays"?

Why did you not answer my question?

Am I not allowed to question someone without being suspicious of them?

Why did you bring up my past game?

Do you believe you can meta me with a single game under your belt?

And does this mean you believe I'm cop?

Unvote

Vote Ms Kazekirimara

Good vote. No questions?

UNVOTE:
VOTE: VictorDeAngelo

for going straight for the AtE lets buddy everyone play. your only real opinion there is on sonic and it isn't a very good one

Are you accusing him of being scum because he's not certain enough of his opinions to post them?

Do you have opinions of your own?

I am fairly certain that most people read only 1/2 my posts and make what up they

think

I would say for the rest.

Honestly, I have inattentive ADHD and posts consisting only of a bunch of questions are really difficult for me to get through.

I do

really read them all, but I can understand why some people would get tired of them. I get half way down the list and have to start over because I get confused. Also sorta feels like a power tripping kid who is a deputy hall monitor. If it works, keep it up though.

UNVOTE: VOTE: Metal Sonic

Metal's comments about a potential SK feel weird to me.

What about his explanation and his other posts? Do they feel weird as well?

Does weird = scum to you?

Exactly my point. I like you now

Yeah fuck it.

UNVOTE: metal

VOTE: VictorDeAngelo

Reverse OMGUS?

@Messiah

Have you found no one scummier than Victor up to this point?

Can you see Victor's play coming from a townie?

@Victor

How do you believe your drawing attention to yourself and your preference to defend yourself helps town?

What do you think we should look for in scum's response to you?

@Pie

How would you go about gleaning my alignment from my response to your question?

@Peregrin

Would you be willing to play devil's advocate and explain why you still think Victor

might

be town?

___

Sorry so few questions, guys. I just kinda skimmed. I'll probably go back and reread what I missed later.

So FEW questions? When did May 15th become backwards day? Few = <10 for future reference. Please try to keep your questions per a post as few as possible. <3 Instead of just asking asking asking, how bout you explain some of the reads/tells/impressions your giant walls of questions are garnering for you. You're whole "These r srs bnz ?nz gyz, answer dem PLZ or I WILL ADD YOU TO

The List

" without telling us what information your questions are garnering is useless. Why should I accept your word that these questions are doing amazing things for your gameplay, without you telling how they are? I can ask you your favorite color, food, bar, friend's name, first pet, what you want to be when you grow up, and what your annual household income is, tell you I am using your answers for a legitimate purpose, and then never explain myself just as well as you can.



Also why did NOBODY call me out on not posting ONCE during the first 36+ hours of the game? Did any of you even notice we hadn't posted yet? If I were you guys I would've been asking yourselves why a player slot with TWO PLAYERS sitting in it couldn't scrape together the time for ONE MEASLY POST in the first 7 pages/36 hours of the game?

Thats it for now.

~Maru

[Anatole Kuragin]

I think Tammy may be a serial killer.

[Anatole Kuragin]

Sorry got distracted at work before I could add some analysis to the above quotes -

Bane says he has a role from the first game "word for word", which is a lie if he is a "vanilla townie", because in this game the role is "innocent child," right? Someone who is VT needs to confirm because I could be confusing the IC discussion from earlier in the game and this is bad reasoning.

However, bane also implies that it is a role that plays off the mechanics of the game, why would he try to imply he had a PR if he was just a regular person who could be murdered? I'm guessing bane/tammy is SK with bulletproof.

[Anatole Kuragin]

He also quotes back to back two posts about SKs which seems weird looking back.

[Anatole Kuragin]

Sorry got distracted at work before I could add some analysis to the above quotes -

Bane says he has a role from the first game "word for word", which is a lie if he is a "vanilla townie", because in this game the role is "innocent child," right? Someone who is VT needs to confirm because I could be confusing the IC discussion from earlier in the game and this is bad reasoning.

However, bane also implies that it is a role that plays off the mechanics of the game, why would he try to imply he had a PR if he was just a regular person who could be murdered? I'm guessing bane/tammy is SK with bulletproof.

There was no "innocent child" mentioned in the first timeshift as far as i can tell.

[Anatole Kuragin]

VOTE: tammy

[Anatole Kuragin]

VOTE: tammy

thanks for calling me a moron.

Hey, so, if you're the town protective role, why did Jeesh's claim of BP vest giver not strike you as weird?

If there are 3 mafia + an sk even remotely as powerful as timeshift 1, then town needs 2 protective roles, imo. a 1-shot and a jailkeeper combined aren't exactly super powerful anyways

[Anatole Kuragin]

I WAS THE NIGHT ONE KILL.

WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU TWO?

I mean the only literal thing I could be is a Serial Killer, and that's it, that's all you can be paranoid about.

P-edit: who's left to massclaim?

just bulba

[Anatole Kuragin]

Tammy, would you have pushed for a bert lynch today if not for his posts in the last hour or two?

[Anatole Kuragin]

No.

We are not lynching someone who cannot possibly be mafia.

We're just not doing it.

If it makes you feel better, jail her.

I am the only PR alive, unless Bulba is one. How long do you expect me to keep

anyone

jailed?

[Anatole Kuragin]

Sorry molla, looks like you're getting SK'd tonight. gg bud

[Anatole Kuragin]

BBMolla was jailed night two. So if there is a missing kill it means either BB made it or was it.

Not a kill I'd make.

There are a number of other scenarios that could have happened - you of all people, being in the top 90% of scumhunters are aware of that.

[Anatole Kuragin]

BBMolla was jailed night two. So if there is a missing kill it means either BB made it or was it.

Not a kill I'd make.

There are a number of other scenarios that could have happened - you of all people, being in the top 90% of scumhunters are aware of that.

Not with what has already been claimed, no. afaiw we have already massclaimed, so unless someone did lie, those are the only two options we have avaliable

other scenarios -

mafia or SK both put in a kill on pants, who was obvtown to anyone with a brain
sk put in a kill on pie before he was lynched, which isn't unlikely since sk apparently guessed messiah
scm tried to kill other scum but they were saved by bp

[Anatole Kuragin]

I mean I'm flabbergasted at the both of them. Who makes a serial killer case and argument BERFORE MASS CLAIM IS DONE?

Scum!

There has to be at least one liar so far claiming VT, or mathematically this game is fucked. this became clear after reading timeshift 1

[Anatole Kuragin]

where the fuck is bulba

[Anatole Kuragin]

also, I never claimed to be good at mafia

[Anatole Kuragin]

A tracker, one-shot BP giver and jailkeeper against a roleblocker and goon, possibly other goon doesn't seem horribly unbalanced?

If someone is already lying, it's BERT. Lynch him tomorrow after I flip vanilla town.

He's scum I promise.

You keep saying this but there are only 2 votes on you and the other two players that have showed up have both said they won't vote you. why?

[Anatole Kuragin]

A tracker, one-shot BP giver and jailkeeper against a roleblocker and goon, possibly other goon doesn't seem horribly unbalanced?

If someone is already lying, it's BERT. Lynch him tomorrow after I flip vanilla town.

He's scum I promise.

You keep saying this but there are only 2 votes on you and the other two players that have showed up have both said they won't vote you. why?

why is your vote on me?

And if you can explain it without calling me a moron. I'd really appreciate it.

I mean Bert is fucking scum so I know why he's voting me, but you.

I'd like for you to read my iso and find my scum motivation in anything I've done because you can't find it. I'm flipping town to anyone with a pulse in this game, you'd literally have to be walking dead not to see it.

Can you please stop trying to guilt me? I have a big heart.

[Anatole Kuragin]

I never called you a moron - in fact, scum or town, you are clearly skilled enough to have everyone here wrapped around your finger.

[Anatole Kuragin]

I could totally see bert being mafia, but I still think tammy is sk.

I mean, mafia at this point probably want sk dead more than we do

[Anatole Kuragin]

which is why they will kill ye old jailkeep

[Anatole Kuragin]

No.

We are not lynching someone who cannot possibly be mafia.

We're just not doing it.

If it makes you feel better, jail her.

I am the only PR alive, unless Bulba is one. How long do you expect me to keep

anyone

jailed?

You should still get two actions off.

I imagine I'm probably dying tonight.

(That said, you should publicize who you're jailing today in case you die, and don't forget to do this tomorrow if I'm not around to remind you)

but then wouldn't mafia avoid killing that person, when otherwise they would wifom the situation to death and still end up somehow targeting someone I saved? if I announce who I am jailing and it's not scum, then it just removes any risk from their kills

[Anatole Kuragin]

BBMolla was jailed night two. So if there is a missing kill it means either BB made it or was it.

Not a kill I'd make.

There are a number of other scenarios that could have happened - you of all people, being in the top 90% of scumhunters are aware of that.

Not with what has already been claimed, no. afaiw we have already massclaimed, so unless someone did lie, those are the only two options we have avaliable

other scenarios -

mafia or SK both put in a kill on pants, who was obvtown to anyone with a brain
sk put in a kill on pie before he was lynched, which isn't unlikely since sk apparently guessed messiah
scm tried to kill other scum but they were saved by bp

HMMM....Isn't it interesting I didn't run through these scenarios? It's probably because I don't have night actions!

Also, what do you think about Bert "reaction testing" me in twilight about Dr. Pants?

the reaction testing seemed misguided but not necessarily scum

[Anatole Kuragin]

multiple times throughout the game there have been references to the vanilla role being called "innocent child," but I admitted I may have been confusing that with a standard mafiascum/meta term. that's why I was asking mara/bert to confirm that as VTs.

[Anatole Kuragin]

hope everything's ok stud

[Anatole Kuragin]

Does anyone think the SK could be anyone besides BB, bulba, and tammy?

[Anatole Kuragin]

well, I think bert may be our most likely mafia, but unlikely to be sk

i think tammy is unlikely to be mafia but my best guess for sk

mathematically these are probably both bad choices

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I think we need bulba to show up

[Anatole Kuragin]

imo it's tammy bulba or bb, and bulba is the only one of those three that could conceivably also be mafia

[Anatole Kuragin]

mafia could be bert, bulba, mara, or pere, imo. I want to say pere and mara are town though

[Anatole Kuragin]

If we do have an SK, you should probably get on to thinking about what another guess is. Cuz I aint flipping it.

Oh hey, you know what? I've actually been an SK before. I tried to play it like a dayvig. You wanna guess what I didn't do? It was draw any attention whatsoever to the dayvig shot I made that hit mafia. I didn't want any reason for anyone to pay any attention to me or draw me to the kill. I didn't even give a read on the person I shot. Just shot him. Didn't comment on the shot either. That is how I'm pretty sure I'd play it if I were serial killer again.

well bert probably weakened the SK more than anyone this game so this is probably a good argument against him being it too

[Anatole Kuragin]

Messiah Complex did not shoot himself, and if it's a vig, they have no reason not to claim that shot.

Exactly. So why wouldn't they have claimed yesterday?

It gives us more information on the setup that way. I didn't say anything about a missing kill last night, but Bulba jumping to that makes me think if there is a serial killer then he's probably it and something happened to his shot.

The massclaim discussion stemmed from a lot of discussion about the missing NK and figuring out what happened. I didn't think it was a good idea to delve into such matters when there were multiple explanations.

There was only one death last night, which means either the vig is one-shot or something happened to their kill or they're a sk with an errant shot.

Why don't you think mafia could have shot Pants?

@Anatole: Why would I know that my action failed when it hasn't even gone through yet?

I am slightly skeptical about there being a town jailkeeper

I am too.

Mara has better posting now, but is it because your on the chopping block, or your sense of civic pride kicked in? It's actually the short list between you and Bulba, but I'd add Bert too at this point.

You're kidding, right?

Bulba you're PoE scum and your not helping your own case very much by not saying much.

I'm absent everywhere else on site due to RL issues and suffering from massive burnout. Activity is not indicative of my alignment.

You can help me out by explaining your reads on Mara and Bert.

Mara is mainly a holdout from d1, but it's remained steady due to the lack of scumhunting and content. It's essentially down to PoE atm, and she lands in the list of 3. As for Bert, it's a meta read, and a pretty strong one at that. I also think that him being on the Pie wagon early points heavily to him not being scum with Pie.

It's why I wanted a massclaim. If someone claimed vig (especially a suspect) then that person could be removed from who I need to look at. I considered the possibility of Bulbazack being a vig if there was one and as he's someone that I don't feel confident on as town, if he did claim vig, he probably is it.

Why is there a willingness here to trust any vig claim?

Also, since it seems everyone ignored my wishes to avoid a massclaim, and I need to claim to lynch Anatole-scum, I am the doctor. I crumbed to Mollie d1, although I don't think she got it and took advantage of what I was offering:

Jeesh, if you had 2 vests to hand out, who would you give them to?

Plus it has the advantage of explaining why you haven't died if you manage to last a few days.

No it doesn't.

Jeesh, if you had 2 vests to hand out, who would you give them to?

you ask this as if we would tell you

how any1 could construe this as a town POV is beyond my reasoning to understand human nature as a whole.

I will turn to religion if this thing survives beyond d3.

Step 1: Go read Imaginary Fights.
Step 2: Come back here and humor me.

I was offering for her to use me as a daily second vest, although I was greedily hoping that she'd give one to me so that I could survive longer. I protected the Jeesh slot (Studio) n1 and n2, and I protected Tammy n3.

Vote Anatole Kuragin

Me thinks she knew there was another protective role running around and she claimed the one from the last game to look more authentic and to draw me out.

I don't understand how this is a case against me.

[Anatole Kuragin]

there is an SK and probably 3 mafia. so no, it doesn't.

look how badly scum won last timeshift with the same setup, wouldn't be remotely surprised if there was a jailkeeper AND a doctor, and I've already said I expected there to be another PR. the game would be unbalanced without it

[Anatole Kuragin]

I think bulba could be telling the truth

[Anatole Kuragin]

but his reasoning against me is shit

[Anatole Kuragin]

I highly doubt scum have a doctor

[Anatole Kuragin]

or that bulba would even claim doctor if he was a scum doctor anyways

[Anatole Kuragin]

try to leave omgus out this please

[Anatole Kuragin]

Why did you automatically assume that a town power role was missing and not think it could be a vig?

Also, why not think it could have been me? I hadn't claimed yet, so it was entirely possible I was an actual power role?

Why make a case for me to be a serial killer BEFORE we knew one existed and before massclaim was over?

I honestly thought the VT role was called "innocent child" and you said you were one.

[Anatole Kuragin]

Do we actually know one exists?

A mafia was nightkilled, and there was an SK in the last timeshift game. Also, if we have a doctor, jailkeeper, tracker, I find it unlikely there's a vig too, but I have also only played like 4 games.

[Anatole Kuragin]

Why did you automatically assume that a town power role was missing and not think it could be a vig?

Also, why not think it could have been me? I hadn't claimed yet, so it was entirely possible I was an actual power role?

Why make a case for me to be a serial killer BEFORE we knew one existed and before massclaim was over?

I honestly thought the VT role was called "innocent child" and you said you were one.

But Mara claimed VT and she didn't say anything about innocent child.

Also, that doesn't account for making the case before Bulba claimed, and you responded that we were waiting on Bulba to claim. Why did you think it impossible Bulba could be a vig?

Yes she did... that's where I originally got it from.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Anatole Kuragin]

Do we actually know one exists?

A mafia was nightkilled, and there was an SK in the last timeshift game. Also, if we have a doctor, jailkeeper, tracker, I find it unlikely there's a vig too, but I have also only played like 4 games.

At the time that you made the case on me you did not know a doctor existed. Why did you make a case on me, while thinking that there was a power role unclaimed, and knowing that it was possible it could be a vig?

I really don't understand how you could think that having a vig is as likely as having an sk given the kills and the setup from timeshift 1.

[Anatole Kuragin]

I probably should have just googled what innocent child was a long time ago.

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?tit ... cent_Child

[Anatole Kuragin]

I guess she was joking.

[Anatole Kuragin]

I honestly thought that innocent child was some flavor way of saying vanilla townie, but looking back she apparently said "we are a member of the town" later on.

[Anatole Kuragin]

Do we actually know one exists?

A mafia was nightkilled, and there was an SK in the last timeshift game. Also, if we have a doctor, jailkeeper, tracker, I find it unlikely there's a vig too, but I have also only played like 4 games.

At the time that you made the case on me you did not know a doctor existed. Why did you make a case on me, while thinking that there was a power role unclaimed, and knowing that it was possible it could be a vig?

I really don't understand how you could think that having a vig is as likely as having an sk given the kills and the setup from timeshift 1.

The only known non-mafia kill is on messiah complex. I could totally see a vig making that shot. They looked like scum.

There was only one kill last night; I could totally see a one-shot vig in this setup. We already had a one-shot role.

I didn't read or play in the first timeshift game. Nor do I believe that because a mod made a setup before that it's going to be the same exact set up.

For instance, Marketplace I had an SK, Marketplace II had a dayvig and a consumer, Marketplace III had none of the above.

That does not answer my question. Why did you make a case for an SK before we knew we had one?

Honestly, I guess I just got caught up in sk hysteria after bert linked timeshift 1. that shit is scary

If bert is the only other one here who thinks there may be something to the tammy case then I'll concede it was probably stupid. I get confused a lot. I may be dumb but I'm not scum, however.

p-edit, bulba how is that remotely a case for anatole-scum? because you "dont think" the mod would copy most of the setup, and I suggested he would have used one role that we don't already have confirmed?

[Anatole Kuragin]

@Anatole: Because Doc + 1-shot Vest Giver are about the max to expect in regards to protective roles (Doc + JK +1-shot BP VG is too much), and it'd make sense that scum knowing their role was blocked by some protective role would look back to the first game to create a fake claim to counter the protective claim that they knew would eventually come. Add onto that how I'm not sure how your list of targets make sense. Were you going for protection or blocking?

Blocking

[Anatole Kuragin]

the fact that you guys thought I was serious when I claimed to be carrying the game is a never ending source of laughter for me

[Anatole Kuragin]

mafia could be bert, bulba, mara, or pere, imo. I want to say pere and mara are town though

well, I think bert may be our most likely mafia, but unlikely to be sk

i think tammy is unlikely to be mafia but my best guess for sk

mathematically these are probably both bad choices

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I think we need bulba to show up

imo it's tammy bulba or bb, and bulba is the only one of those three that could conceivably also be mafia

You've proclaimed yourself to be a leader in this game. Yet outside of Tammy yesterday, you haven't immediately put the spotlight on anyone as a real scumread. Why is that? This doesn't seem like an instinctual thought process. You're covering your reads in what looks like generic commentary. None of this contains any kind of convincing tone.

My skepticism is reserved for people I'm not 95% sure on.

Because he's scum and lying? You guys realize he hasn't flipped yet, right?

What's weirder is how you expressed your Pie-scumread with certainty yesterday, even into Twilight. This makes me think Bus. If you think someone is scum, there's no reason to withhold anything until further notice.

What I would say to PR's right now is that no claims will not necessarily save you from suspicion. Even Studio is not clear by any means. I see a lack of clear signals from you.

tammy could be sk/mafia but not studio

why not?

VOTE: Anatole

You guys know the feeling of when everything about the claim fits so perfectly? Almost a too-good-to-be-true, fits too well type? This fits the bill.

Now, about Bulba and Pere. Both are caught up IRL, so activity is a null tell. Peregrine seems to be "following the tide" a lot more than Bulba.

Are you 4real about studio?

There is seriously no way the vest/kill interaction between him and tammy would have played out that way if he wasn't a 1 shot vest giver. If he was scum, why would he give a vest to a prominent town member?

that's a clown post bro

[Anatole Kuragin]

I'm actually leaning back toward Anatole after his effort to try to dismiss my reads and then claiming to be carrying the town. He's about in the right place on the Pie wagon for bussing scum as well.

This isn't entirely crazy either. I thought that claim was a joke, but if it's not then it's obviously ridiculous.

Mara is still town for her claim. Possibly also for the treatment of my slot.

Of course I was joking. This place can be so humorless sometimes.

[Anatole Kuragin]

it would be the dumbest scum move ever to give tammy a vest if you were scum. studio doesn't strike me as someone with a sub-100 IQ

[Anatole Kuragin]

why would you assume he was telling the truth about it being 1 shot if he was mafia

[Anatole Kuragin]

your argument makes no sense.

studio is town

[Anatole Kuragin]

so he claimed 1-shot to avoid being killed by himself?

[Anatole Kuragin]

that was an obtuse question on my part, he could have been trying to avoid SK as well

regardless, I am not mafia and studio is the most town person in this game, imo. there are too many potential mislynches to go for someone who is THAT likely to be innocent

[Anatole Kuragin]

especially if there is an SK, in which case we only have so many nights unless bulba is hot shit as doctor

[Anatole Kuragin]

which he obviously is not

[Anatole Kuragin]

because he hasn't saved anyone?

[Anatole Kuragin]

speaking of which, isnt it convenient that he picked a role that he knew 100% couldn't be counter-claimed because none of those people were saved or killed

I jailkept two people who had not claimed and could have easily countered me. it would be a pretty risky/dumb move as scum I think

[Anatole Kuragin]

two people who had not claimed when I revealed my role*

[Anatole Kuragin]

I guess he could have saved studio from a n3 kill

[Anatole Kuragin]

is it not strange that it tells you you were shot if you get protected by a vest, but not by a doctor though?

[Anatole Kuragin]

I honestly don't know the answer to that question because I haven't played mafiascum in like 6 years

[Anatole Kuragin]

still, the possibility that he MAY have saved studio doesn't change that Bulba's claim seems pretty convenient, and the fact that he immediately came out voting me with the claim and no case other than "two protective roles" felt weird

[Anatole Kuragin]

since he would have looked at the nightkills before claiming that anyways

[Anatole Kuragin]

mass hysteria, bad decisions, lies, damn lies, and if you look hard enough, the truth

[Anatole Kuragin]

good question

[Anatole Kuragin]

at least one person claiming VT is lying, imo

[Anatole Kuragin]

maybe two, if bulba is telling the truth

[Anatole Kuragin]

if there is only one scum left, jailkeeper + vest + doc does seem op

[Anatole Kuragin]

unless pere, mara, bb decide to really throw some ideas/info in I think this day isn't going to go well

[Anatole Kuragin]

stagnating hard due to misguided ups and downs i think

[Anatole Kuragin]

just falling into the usual trap of all the active players pointing fingers at each other with no input from half the game

[Anatole Kuragin]

VOTE: bert

tammy suitably convinced me I was an idiot for voting her

bulba may be lying

still thinking pere, mara, bb are town, and I'm almost certain studio is

bert or bulba should die today. confident at least one of them is scum, maybe both

[Anatole Kuragin]

pere you will save us a lot of trouble at this point if you just say you're vig

[Anatole Kuragin]

why do you think mara is more likely to turn up scum than bert?

[Anatole Kuragin]

Can we lynch Mara today

You could have hammered ke forever ago

Do you still think scum is in burt/belba?

[Anatole Kuragin]

bulb you are tunnelvisioned right now and reaching

your first points about your merit as a doc have been addressed if you read the thread

Obviously someone is lying, and you have been less of a townread than any other player still alive aside from bert all game, and your claim was convenient so it makes sense it could be you. I also pointed out that it makes sense to have a doc. why can't it make sense and still be an opportunistic, potentially false claim?

I WANT to believe your claim is true, and accepted it pretty quickly. if tammy is town it makes you less likely to be, though

didn't realize bb had claimed when I did

and why would I look for your other site activity or even give a shit? I just wanted some more eyes on the game

[Anatole Kuragin]

also you are giving my scum game way too much credit

[Anatole Kuragin]

it basically boils down to the fact that I feel bert is more likely to be scum, as I started getting more of a town vibe from you today, bulba.

also, I don't feel pressure bro

[Anatole Kuragin]

Thanks, it's album art from my favorite record - King Crimson's - In The Court of the Crimson King.

As far as the game goes, I think we'd pretty much been over everything there is to go over. People vote or make new cases. Someone besides me, bert, and bulba needs to do something.

[Anatole Kuragin]

I sincerely want to die tonight

I don't, and I won't die outside of being lynched.

yall don't think this is a little scummy?

[Anatole Kuragin]

both scenarios are possible I guess

[Anatole Kuragin]

idc at this point

[Anatole Kuragin]

Bert, if I'm not scum (I'm not), who are currently your choices for potential sk/mafia?

[Anatole Kuragin]

In regards to my confidence on the inflatable Pie thing - this along with wake's were my first games back after 6 years of not playing mafia (and you can look back at the few games I played back then, it wasn't pretty either, but I was 16 and I digress) and it took me a while to get in the hang of things again. After playing a game for a bit as scum and getting back in the swing of things, over the course of a month or so I've started picking up on how to play I think. I don't think my attitude towards him looks like bussing but I have misreads all the time so it's understandable.

I think that I've gotten slightly less shitty but that said, I'm pretty lost this game now. It's pretty characteristic of me to have a random moment of clarity. I'd provide more evidence but wake's and a micro that just ended prematurely are the only games I've finished since I returned. in that micro I basically didn't contribute anything until the last minute where I figured out both scum. early games are hard for me, basically. I had a similar epiphany with inflatable pie. i don't put a ton of stock in meta, but this is more how my brain works than how I play mafia. it is frustrating though that the one "scummy" thing you guys are pointing to is that I found my first scum

I still don't think the town is stacked if bulba is telling the truth, and studio is still almost certainly town.

[Anatole Kuragin]

Studio gave Tammy a vest though

[Anatole Kuragin]

maybe I don't get what you're saying

[Anatole Kuragin]

Did you guys even read Bulba's post?

[Anatole Kuragin]

I said "I still don't think the town is stacked if bulba is telling the truth"

In what realm of the multiverse does that translate into absolute confidence?

[Anatole Kuragin]

am i taking crazy pills

[Anatole Kuragin]

Oh, my dog can't fetch. He doesn't understand the word "share."

I really wanna send him to doggie training school.

Kittie school must exist, right?

Pere not coming back is worrisome. I me am I guess Anatole isn't the worst lynch? He just seems town at times, but if he does flip town jailer and there are two kills tonight then bulba is confirmed town.

Honestly, at this point I'm out of steam and the cases I'm trying to make clearly aren't very good and Bulba apparently has a vendetta. If you dudes calculate we can afford a mislynch and we will get enough information from my death to maybe move on and figure out some more shit, it may be best for yall to just vote me regardless. I'm not doing anything in this game anyways and would rather die than be VI ¯\_(ツ)_/¯. When I flip town though, remember me for the good times, not the floundering, directionless day 4. Good luck yall. I still think Pere, BB, and Mara are town, and Studio almost certainly is.

VOTE: AK

[Anatole Kuragin]

Don't know what else to do at this point. I don't feel like I'm helping being alive, if we can afford a mislynch and we will get anything useful from my death that seems preferable. Deadline is tomorrow night.

If this isn't the best thing for the town I'll unvote, but it doesn't seem like scum are going to get lynched today regardless.

[Anatole Kuragin]

I don't think voting yourself is helpful :/

I am still thinking about this game, I just don't have the time or eye power to put it in the thread.

I'll UNVOTE: ak until you have time to look over the thread though.

[Anatole Kuragin]

I hope everyone has been taking a mental break from this game over the past few days, while indulging chocolatey brain treats!

Back to business tomorrow I think. It would be nice if we could just settle on someone...

Bert, if I'm not scum (I'm not), who are currently your choices for potential sk/mafia?

If you're actually town, then....that complicates things and that is why I need to get back into this game!

I had Peregrine/Anatole as instinctual reads the last time I made a serious post, but I'm not self-assured about any of my reads. Peregrine is not easy to read given how little he posts in general, and if both of you are town then my reads need a serious reset - in that case, my reads are way off and one of the near-universal townreads is most definitely scum (Molla or Mara's slot or Bulba).

We don't have that many mislynches to spare, and it's hard to earn any type of moral victories when the odds are stacked against a scum lynch today.

Do you have any follow up to this bert?

[Anatole Kuragin]

Are you saying you think one is mafia and one is SK? or potentially one may be town and the other scum?

[Anatole Kuragin]

It's probably a bad idea to lynch Bulba because there is a decent chance he is doctor. I would vote for Peregrin though. He has been a town read for me all game but I sorta made my mind up on that before the possibility of an SK too.

[Anatole Kuragin]

I would love to go along with any theory that would clear my name, but there are a couple issues.

A) both kills could be on the same target - this isn't unlikely considering we have one more or less CI - studio, and tammy, who has already been shot once and most people see as town. basically everyone else is "lynchable"

b) mafia have another roleblocker or other disabling role of some sort - also not unlikely if all of the town role claims have been true, especially since messiah was goon