Breaking Bad season 1 - Game over

[PeregrineV]

Hi guys. On vla but back inafew days. Can read and will post only important thoughts until then

[PeregrineV]

Weekend reading, but what was the major reason for the shos lynch?

[PeregrineV]

Crazy question, but how was the cop lynched yesterday?

[PeregrineV]

I seriously don't buy that you aren't up to speed at this point.

No, I came back, it was night, the town cop was lynched.

Prior to that, shos was lynched. Since shos is mostly a scumread to everyone but I can tell when he is town, that didn't surprise me. No kill night1 was good.

Now, I'm curious as to how the town cop got lynched.

[PeregrineV]

vote: dark

Second crazy question, where did this come from?

[PeregrineV]

he was never given a chance to claim

That makes very little sense. When he got to L-2 and L-1, why was the roll not slowed?

[PeregrineV]

vote: dark

Second crazy question, where did this come from?

I guess you should read the game and you will know where that came from.

I read the dead cop. He seemed to think Dark was town.

I read EEk, he was calling Dark town early on and null later on.

Before I read dark, and reach an independent conclusion, I'm asking where your Dark vote came from, as it is in direct contrast to the two flipped town.

[PeregrineV]

Day 1 Vote count 5

shos

(7): toolenduso, hiplop, Beck, Salamence20, Rob13, Albert B. Rampage,Hopkirk

hiplop

(1): DarkLightA

Albert B. Rampage

(1): shos

Hopkirk

(1): -Eek- I am a Belgian -_-

Beck

(1): Mr_Ree

Mr_Ree

(1): Mantisdreamz

DarkLightA

(1): Cuttlefish

Not Voting

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.

(expired on 2014-08-18 12:19:20)

till Day 1 Deadline

Official Vote Count

Mr_Ree

(7): hiplop, Mantisdreamz, Beck, -Eek- I am a Belgian -_-, Hopkirk, Rob13, Albert B. Rampage

hiplop

(2): Mr_Ree, Cuttlefish

Rob13

(1): toolenduso

Hopkirk

(1): DarkLightA

Not Voting

(1): PeregrineV

With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch.

(expired on 2014-08-23 15:06:59)

till Day 2 Deadline

[PeregrineV]

vote: dark

Second crazy question, where did this come from?

I guess you should read the game and you will know where that came from.

I read the dead cop. He seemed to think Dark was town.

I read EEk, he was calling Dark town early on and null later on.

Before I read dark, and reach an independent conclusion, I'm asking where your Dark vote came from, as it is in direct contrast to the two flipped town.

He's one of my scum reads and has been. You would know that if you read the game like I said.

Could you point out the posts that highlight the source of your scumread on Dark?

[PeregrineV]

^had the same thought which is why I'm not voting to right now. He's still remains a top scum read though.

@pere- it's been covered do again READ THE THREAD

Nah.

Vote: Beck

[PeregrineV]

Beck's a lot of noise, but I'm not seeing anything useful/well-reasoned coming out of him. And yes, I know you're doing things, and that makes you likely town, but you're fitting evidence to reads instead of vice versa. That makes your reads pretty useless.

With time running down, I'm ok with Ree.

Vote: Mr. Ree

There was conceivably 5-6 days left in the game day. Why was "time running down"?

[PeregrineV]

Peregrine, serious question, are you scum with Albert?

No, not scum at all.

[PeregrineV]

why would he pull a gambit like that if hes the fucking cop

What gambit?

[PeregrineV]

why would he pull a gambit like that if hes the fucking cop

What gambit?

READ THE THREAD

Having read MrRee, the 2nd townie you've helped lynch, I didn't see any gambit.

what gambit?

[PeregrineV]

Game's gone stagnant. Let's get this rolling...

Daykill: Beck

Pretty sure I'm right about this. Sorry if I'm not.

@Beck: Any last words before the flip? Who are your scum buddies?

I know you are not talking about this.

[PeregrineV]

Yeah so let's lynch Ree now

On what grounds?

Fakevigging? lol

How about

1. Scum gambit to gain town cred and hoping to get me to role claim thinking I was dead
2. Lying which is anti town
3. Trying to lynch a townie
4. Defending scum while trying to lynch a townie.

Sounds good to me

Is that your case for Reescum?

That's a good start. I could go on but I don't have to

No, you have to, because that's a fucking bad start.

At this point in site meta, fake dayvig no longer qualifies as a gambit.

[PeregrineV]

Yes that's a Gambit, an overused one but one nonetheless

And you want me to believe you not only thought it was real but you also thought it was a scum gambit.

[PeregrineV]

This is a dumb argument, and one Peregrine is using to confuse the fact that he didn't read Ree's ISO before accusing others of trying to lynch a townie. It's kind of important to know why people thought he was scummy before you do that.

1135

We had 4 days left, actually, and we needed time for an intent to hammer, claim, discussion, and lynch (and the chance to form a different wagon if the claim was convincing). You know, all the things that didn't happen because Albert quicklynched him with no claim.

How did that work out for you?
If only someone hadn't put him at L-2 for no discernible reason....

And Peregrine, earlier you soft-defended Albert's quickhammer by saying "WELL YOU GUYS SHOULDN'T HAVE BEEN SO FAST TO L-2 AND L-1". That is the dumbest nonsense I've ever heard on-site. Putting someone at L-2 and L-1 is something you must do for pressure, or you're going to get nowhere really fast. If you never vote until you intend to lynch, then you're wasting one of the tools that town has. Now, I'd be understanding if I had to explain this in a Newbie, but you have a join date of early 2011. You know this, obviously. So why are you defending Albert with crap logic?

Vote: PeregrineV

Link to any defense of Albert, please, to even possibly get this paragraph accepted as valid.

[PeregrineV]

how is that not a gambit?

1135

[PeregrineV]

Going to assume weekend daystart is the cause for absences, since not usually a weekend poster myself.

[PeregrineV]

Yeah so let's lynch Ree now

On what grounds?

Fakevigging? lol

How about

1. Scum gambit to gain town cred and hoping to get me to role claim thinking I was dead
2. Lying which is anti town
3. Trying to lynch a townie
4. Defending scum while trying to lynch a townie.

Sounds good to me

Is that your case for Reescum?

That's a good start. I could go on but I don't have to

No, you have to, because that's a fucking bad start.

At this point in site meta, fake dayvig no longer qualifies as a gambit.

You're aware that the word isn't mafiascum-exclusive right? The definition hasn't changed just because it's overused.

Not sure what you mean here. Gambit or dayvig?

My primary point is that if you read 691, do you really think that was Mr_Ree's intentions?

That he faked a kill on Beck to get him to claim? And that he tried to get town credit for it?

Heck, you can address all 4 points there if you want.

[PeregrineV]

Not sure what you mean here. Gambit or dayvig?

My primary point is that if you read 691, do you really think that was Mr_Ree's intentions?

That he faked a kill on Beck to get him to claim? And that he tried to get town credit for it?

Heck, you can address all 4 points there if you want.

I meant gambit. Also, you seem to be under the impression that I think Beck is town...? I don't.

Yet you are not voting for him.

[PeregrineV]

VOTE: peregrine

buying rob's points.

Surprised. /sarcasm

[PeregrineV]

So, unfortunately Ree didn't really give an impression of his reads D1 besides shos. So there's nothing to compare D2 with. That leaves us with Ree's thoughts on:

Hop: Ree comes right out of the gate D2 voting Hop. Argues with my townread on Hop in #271. Continues pushing Hop and advocating heavily for other people to get on the wagon (#295, #371). Asks hip (#321) and Rob (#473) why they think Hop is scum, which if Ree got a guilty result on Hop he could be trying to identify bussing partners. Ree leaves the Hopkirk wagon to go vote other people, but noticeably his vote on Beck stems from their arguments over Hopkirk. If Ree got a guilty result on Hopkirk, it would make sense for him to go after people defending Hopkirk on suspicion of them being partners. That being said, Ree questioned my townread on Hopkirk but didn't go after me nearly as much as he went after Beck, so I guess that's the grain of salt to take with my hypothesis. Still, this looks like a possible guilty.

Possible that Ree got a guilty result on Hopkirk.

Dark: Ree begins defending Dark as early as #288, but he's definitely doing it by #353. Calls Dark town in #606. Doesn't offer as much "this is definitely town Dark" as he does "this is definitely town Rob," but then it seems like his Rob read was based on meta and maybe he doesn't have as much meta experience with Dark.

Possible that Ree got an innocent on Dark.

Salamence/Peregrine: Requested for Salamence to be replaced out, said he had no good reason to not contribute.

Unlikely that Ree got a result on Sal.

Rob: Seems very sure that Rob is town in #271. Defends Rob against Beck a little bit in #571. Says he's 85% sure this is town Rob in #641. When Rob starts to turn on Ree, Ree continues to treat Rob like town and his read there doesn't seem to waver.

Possible that Ree got an innocent on Rob.

Beck: In #288 (early D2), Ree argues for Beck to get on the wagon against Hopkirk, but seems to be treating Beck like town. Ends up voting Beck in #357 after getting in an argument with him. This doesn't look the way I would expect a cop to treat somebody they got a guilty on, and certainly not an innocent.

Unlikely that Ree got a result on Beck.

ABR: Very little mentioning of this slot.

Unlikely that Ree got a result on Albert.

tool: Criticizes my reads on Hop and Sal, defends me against Eek later on, not much other interaction.

Unlikely that Ree got a result on me.

Mantis: Ree asks why he should be angry that Mantis is scumreading him, generally treats Mantis like town, shows suspicion of Mantis later.

Unlikely Ree got a result on Mantis.

hip: Says hiplop's "ugh" was town, while Dark's was null, but that his read on hip is null.

Unlikely that Ree got a result on hiplop.

Cuttlefish: Ree calls cuttle town, but only after cuttle passes some sort of reaction test I still don't understand.

Unlikely that Ree got a result on Cuttle.

So I'd rather not vote Rob or Dark today, but Hop is definitely an option.

From looking over Ree's iso, it would appear he did cop Rob night1. Knowing this, I think 197 helped to drive Ree's 238 vote. Putting a lot of pressure on someone voting an innocent would be a good way to use a copping of a townie.

[PeregrineV]

It's a filler post. Makes him look like he's being useful.

I was just in a game where looking back over the cop's ISO revealed a guilty crumb and we lynched scum based on that. So I feel like doing the same here is useful.

@Peregrine: Why are you voting Beck?

1) Top suspect of town cop.
2) Helped to lynched town cop
3) Helped to lynched VT
4) Unwillingness to provide source of Dark vote
5) Unwillingness to interact
6) Horrible iso

Even now, by voting Beck I earned 3 votes on me.

[PeregrineV]

Laughed pretty fucking hard at #1168.

Cuttle, the difference is that Peregrine is using craplogic that has an easily discernible scum motive AND I know that he's smarter than this.

Few things I want to note:

1) Even if he thinks that the daykill is not a gambit, if he had read, he would absolutely know that the daykill is what was being referred to. Like 100% definitely. I'm not even touching the fact that the prevalence of a gambit does not make it less of a gambit. That's pretty obvious.

2) He's trying to somehow play off a lynched Town Cop before a claim as being the fault of people who put him at L-2 and L-1. I mean ... what? Ok guys. Everyone unvote. If you're even ON THE WAGON of someone who's quickhammered, it's totally your fault. You can't vote anymore unless you have a claim and know it's not a PR, just to be safe. Do you see how that makes NO FUCKING SENSE?

3) And Peregrine, I interpret your actions that tried to shift attention resulting from the lynch from Albert to those who placed the cop at L-2/L-1 as defending him. It's not a blatant "YO GUYS ALBERT ISN'T SUSPICIOUS", but it's still there. And I wouldn't expect "YO GUYS ALBERT ISN'T SUSPICIOUS" from you anyway. Like I said earlier, your play is good, and you know exactly what you're doing by shifting the attention from one person to another.

You don't seem to want to directly talk about Albert, so riddle me this, Batman:

1) What is your current read on Albert? Back it up with posts/evidence.

2) What do you think Albert's quickhammer says about his alignment and why?

3) What do you think the L-2 and L-1 votes say about the relevant voters' alignments and why?

4) What's the difference between Albert and the L-2/L-1 votes?

I think I included too much info in 1153, since I didn't see the answer. But I'll go slowly.

[PeregrineV]

1) Even if he thinks that the daykill is not a gambit, if he had read, he would absolutely know that the daykill is what was being referred to. Like 100% definitely. I'm not even touching the fact that the prevalence of a gambit does not make it less of a gambit. That's pretty obvious.

You want to argue the daykill is a gambit. I argue it's not. You say but it's been a gambit since 1907 when Aaron Durr shot Orson Wells in the battle of Iwo Jima.
But, if you read 691 AND BELIEVE IT, then create a single post saying that. Say that you believed MrRee's dayvig was REAL, and you thought BECK WAS DEAD.

If you can, and are not lying, then you can believe it was a gambit.

Either way, however, I do not.

A gambit is something that you, the reader, do not know the outcome of. I knew it wasn't a gambit. Try to guess how I knew that. Then tell me why I should act like it WAS, when it WASN'T.

[PeregrineV]

2) He's trying to somehow play off a lynched Town Cop before a claim as being the fault of people who put him at L-2 and L-1. I mean ... what? Ok guys. Everyone unvote. If you're even ON THE WAGON of someone who's quickhammered, it's totally your fault. You can't vote anymore unless you have a claim and know it's not a PR, just to be safe. Do you see how that makes NO FUCKING SENSE?

You are correct. I should come into a game where the town just lynched a VT within the first 8 pages, then the town cop with no claim, and go "Good job so far guys, you keep on doing what you're doing."?

Why would I do that?

Yes, if you help lynch a guy, own up to it, because you are responsible. [post=It is totally your fault.]It is totally your fault.[/post]

[PeregrineV]

3) And Peregrine, I interpret your actions that tried to shift attention resulting from the lynch from Albert to those who placed the cop at L-2/L-1 as defending him. It's not a blatant "YO GUYS ALBERT ISN'T SUSPICIOUS", but it's still there. And I wouldn't expect "YO GUYS ALBERT ISN'T SUSPICIOUS" from you anyway. Like I said earlier, your play is good, and you know exactly what you're doing by shifting the attention from one person to another.

Albert is town, and your day mason. You've never voted him, never called him scum, called him town, and now suddenly he's scum? Oh wait, your not calling him scum, your calling me scum WITH him without calling him scum.

In addition, Albert doesn't even post today until 1185. So how can I BE scum with him when you've determined he's town?

I know you can't be this dumb. Are you scum?

As for attention, mine has been on Beck, and Hopkirk as secondary, but you're managing to take all the focus away from them so far.....

[PeregrineV]

1) What is your current read on Albert? Back it up with posts/evidence.

I this point, since he's such a strong townread of yours (and vice versa), he's probably scum.
636
702
937
1070

2) What do you think Albert's quickhammer says about his alignment and why?

He is scum with you and Beck, because anyone that scumreads any of you gets lynched and killed.

3) What do you think the L-2 and L-1 votes say about the relevant voters' alignments and why?

Good point.

Mr_Ree (7): hiplop, Mantisdreamz, Beck, -Eek- I am a Belgian -_-, Hopkirk, Rob13, Albert B. Rampage

You set him up to quickhammer, and have yet to take him to task for it. I eagerly await your hardcore questioning of his motives.

Don't like Hopkirk in that position, but he has to be town unless Beck is just the patsy.

4) What's the difference between Albert and the L-2/L-1 votes?

If MrRee was really scum, then town doesn't want him at L-1, because then he could self-hammer and deny town info.
But, you put him at L-1 anyway. While thinking he was scum, who could self-hammer and deny town info.
Or did you think he was town, and thought that L-1 was the best place for him?

[PeregrineV]

So, unfortunately Ree didn't really give an impression of his reads D1 besides shos. So there's nothing to compare D2 with. That leaves us with Ree's thoughts on:

Hop: Ree comes right out of the gate D2 voting Hop. Argues with my townread on Hop in #271. Continues pushing Hop and advocating heavily for other people to get on the wagon (#295, #371). Asks hip (#321) and Rob (#473) why they think Hop is scum, which if Ree got a guilty result on Hop he could be trying to identify bussing partners. Ree leaves the Hopkirk wagon to go vote other people, but noticeably his vote on Beck stems from their arguments over Hopkirk. If Ree got a guilty result on Hopkirk, it would make sense for him to go after people defending Hopkirk on suspicion of them being partners. That being said, Ree questioned my townread on Hopkirk but didn't go after me nearly as much as he went after Beck, so I guess that's the grain of salt to take with my hypothesis. Still, this looks like a possible guilty.

Possible that Ree got a guilty result on Hopkirk.

Dark: Ree begins defending Dark as early as #288, but he's definitely doing it by #353. Calls Dark town in #606. Doesn't offer as much "this is definitely town Dark" as he does "this is definitely town Rob," but then it seems like his Rob read was based on meta and maybe he doesn't have as much meta experience with Dark.

Possible that Ree got an innocent on Dark.

Salamence/Peregrine: Requested for Salamence to be replaced out, said he had no good reason to not contribute.

Unlikely that Ree got a result on Sal.

Rob: Seems very sure that Rob is town in #271. Defends Rob against Beck a little bit in #571. Says he's 85% sure this is town Rob in #641. When Rob starts to turn on Ree, Ree continues to treat Rob like town and his read there doesn't seem to waver.

Possible that Ree got an innocent on Rob.

Beck: In #288 (early D2), Ree argues for Beck to get on the wagon against Hopkirk, but seems to be treating Beck like town. Ends up voting Beck in #357 after getting in an argument with him. This doesn't look the way I would expect a cop to treat somebody they got a guilty on, and certainly not an innocent.

Unlikely that Ree got a result on Beck.

ABR: Very little mentioning of this slot.

Unlikely that Ree got a result on Albert.

tool: Criticizes my reads on Hop and Sal, defends me against Eek later on, not much other interaction.

Unlikely that Ree got a result on me.

Mantis: Ree asks why he should be angry that Mantis is scumreading him, generally treats Mantis like town, shows suspicion of Mantis later.

Unlikely Ree got a result on Mantis.

hip: Says hiplop's "ugh" was town, while Dark's was null, but that his read on hip is null.

Unlikely that Ree got a result on hiplop.

Cuttlefish: Ree calls cuttle town, but only after cuttle passes some sort of reaction test I still don't understand.

Unlikely that Ree got a result on Cuttle.

So I'd rather not vote Rob or Dark today, but Hop is definitely an option.

From looking over Ree's iso, it would appear he did cop Rob night1. Knowing this, I think 197 helped to drive Ree's 238 vote. Putting a lot of pressure on someone voting an innocent would be a good way to use a copping of a townie.

Don't see any way Ree copped Rob and got town, at this point. My guess is he copped Eek, so ended up with nothing.

[PeregrineV]

I still want tool to comment on what's going on right now, rather than just looking at ISOs.

Sure thing.

I don't really get the direction Peregrine is going in. A gambit is a gambit, even if it's overused (and I've never seen that particular one before, but I'm not going to argue that it isn't overused because I don't play as many games as some people do). Also I don't understand the Beck vote -- if he's voting for Beck because of the gambit thing, I feel like that's not a great reason.

Already going over this, but Beck says that Ree was scum for the fake dayvig (see post 691).
Do you feel like Beck was dead when Ree posted 673?

I wonder sometimes whether Beck could be deliberately arguing over small things in order to jam up the town conversation -- I haven't really seen scum do that before that I can remember (most seem to prefer hanging back when possible) but I do think it's possible for scum to deliberately do that.

Happens all the time, and causes horrible town apathy.

Albert's hammer fits in with his town meta so he continues to be in my town camp, although we seriously need to stop hammering people before they claim. Here's a game (Open 545) where townAlbert hammered a townie after saying he was lynchbait and that he wasn't going to hammer him.

Ummmm. Just because town-ABR hammers when he shouldn't does not mean that scum-ABR cannot do the same thing.
Tell me you realize the truth of this.

Rob, I have a couple questions for you actually. Do you think Beck and/or Hop are scum with Peregrine/Albert? Do you think Ree got an innocent result on Dark?

[PeregrineV]

As in, I wouldn't mind seeing you or hopkirk at l-1.

What about Eel?

Eek is pretty bad too, tbh.

Ugh, I have too many scum reads.

One thing for certain, imo - Beck is not scum unless hopkirk is scum at this point.

I kinda think he's lurky town.

708 is talking about Eek, since he says in 705 that he wouldn't mind seeing Beck or Hopkirk at L-1.

[PeregrineV]

And Peregrine's reaction to Albert's hammer is more telling than Albert's hammer itself, for the record. But Albert, you seriously need to not do that again, because you can obviously see how it negatively effects games.

Are you telling scum not to hammer because it negatively affects the game?

[PeregrineV]

So clarify for me again.

Was your mistake being over-eager for a flip or was it hammering someone you had as a town read? Without even a claim?

Like seriously guys, this is what Peregrine is defending and trying to deflect attention from.

He just started posting. Go get'em tiger!

[PeregrineV]

1) Top suspect of town cop.
2) Helped to lynched town cop
3) Helped to lynched VT
4) Unwillingness to provide source of Dark vote
5) Unwillingness to interact
6) Horrible iso

Even now, by voting Beck I earned 3 votes on me.

you have to be mafia with a post like this

and now that I am at a computer I can explain.

1. Actually coming in Hopkirk was the cop's prime suspect. The only reason why Ree flipped on me is because I called his reasons for suspecting hop bad (cause they were) and because I was essentially annoying him stopping a hopkirk wagon (in reality all I did was call a spade a spade. Calling reasons bad regardless of my read on the person is perfectly acceptable. Any townie who says otherwise is basically condoning policy lynches and/or lynches for bad reasoning and they suck

And he picked you to fake dayvig over Hopkirk. And you though him scum for it.
And this says you stopped Ree chasing hopkirk because his reasons were bad.
What is your read on Hopkirk now? What was it then?

2. So did a bunch of other people, this means jack shit
3. so did a bunch of other people, this means jack shit

OK

4. This one is an outright lie because I have given my reasons why I think dark is scum. In fact Mr. Ree and I had a conversation on that very thing. All I did was ask you to read the thread and you would see those reasons. The fact that you couldn't be bothered to read the thread means you aren't town because I expect townies to actually pay attention.

That's OK. I'd expect townies to link me to what they think is important. You know, because it's important. It would have even saved you the trouble of repeating yourself. But instead, you have no interest in scumhunting, or in anyone else doing the same.

5. I have not been unwilling to interact with anyone, except maybe you because you refuse to read the thread and refusing to read the thread to me means scum and I have no interest in interacting with scum. I have interacted with every other person.

Fine.

Can ANYONE else ask Beck to link to his post that gives his case on why he thinks Dark is scum in this point in time.

6. My iso is full of me scum hunting, calling out things I consider scummy, defending things that I don't think is scummy, and trying to lynch my top scum reads. Nice try though

I guess I can go look for it. It's only fair.

[PeregrineV]

These posts do not come from a townie.

This means jack shit.

[PeregrineV]

Reasonless vote for shos (48)?

check

Call for hammer for shos (110, 118,155)?

check

Townflip? (185)

check

Fortunately, you're on the case.

holy fuck lol I was close to L-1. that's analyzeable.

the last three votes look like good votes for pressure. ignore that 'analyzable' part.

so then. is everyone here?

it's only analyzable if you are town...

shos was Gretchen Schwartz, Vanilla Town lynched day 1

So, I'll look for that too.

I think I found the analysis.

Am I missing something about hopkirk? He doesn't seem scummy to me, dark's reaction to shos day 1 screamed scum. We should be lynching him IMO.

Not sure I understand all of that but the hammer was protown to me so he gets a pass day 2. Dark hasn't done anything and his reaction to shos was a scum claim.

And 323 is the capstone. You quote Dark and call him scummy for NOT VOTING shos.
350 is a repeat- fanning flames thing.

I hope I come across more analysis.

Holy shit, did you just ask Dark to do what I asked you to do?

Dark - please link the post where you have explained his question. Instead of just saying over and over that you answered it. This would be helpful and cut down the spam in the thread.
Thanks

Nice.

OMG, am I beck?

But you Rob, you had no reason for your vote day 1 which put shos at L-1 (I would consider that "convenient". You sheeped Mr. Reee day 2 for his reasons giving none of your own (Kinda "convenient" to me), Later tried to justify your sheep with reasons of your own, but as I have just shown those reasons are not true. What makes things even more bad for you is those reasons you used for hop, ACTUALLY apply to you instead.

If MrRee was really scum, then town doesn't want him at L-1, because then he could self-hammer and deny town info.
But, you put him at L-1 anyway. While thinking he was scum, who could self-hammer and deny town info.
Or did you think he was town, and thought that L-1 was the best place for him?

Which brings me back to 1102, the Dark vote.

What I want to know is, giving the amount of posting of Rob-scum you did day2 and the reasons you gave, why are you reverting to a Dark vote (based on the dark-reasons you gave)?

pedit. Nice try, but you did the same thing. So I have no respect for your disrespect of me.

[PeregrineV]

That's OK. I'd expect townies to link me to what they think is important. You know, because it's important. It would have even saved you the trouble of repeating yourself. But instead, you have no interest in scumhunting, or in anyone else doing the same.

I believe most townie wouldn't spoonfeed a player who obviously had no interest in the game that the couldn't spend the extremely long 72 hour night phase to catchup...

Most townie have no tolerance for lazy people nor should they. You disrespect the game by not catching up, you get disrespected by me

You probably get the difference between reading posts and interacting with players, so I'll point that out and move on.

[PeregrineV]

Here are just a few posts that I could find from my phone. So you see if somebody had umm ACTUALLY READ THE GAME THREAD, they would have seen I have provided reasons for my read.

Spoiler:

Not sure I understand all of that but the hammer was protown to me so he gets a pass day 2. Dark hasn't done anything and his reaction to shos was a scum claim.

Also ladies and gentelman

it didn't get to L-1. but be sure to check my wagon if I flip scum.

rephrasing:
it didn't get to L-1. but I defended the possible attack on the wagon, so if I flip scum, you should search for my scumbuddies on this buswagon.

...that's irrelevant because I'm not going to, so no worries.

Dear lord you're making this complicated. I can't figure out how this would come from town. Then again, I don't think scum would be stupid enough to post it. Argh..

Back for more uggs.

I slept on it, and I've convinced myself that shos is scum. Still can't figure out why scum would make that post, but I definitely can't figure out why town would.

Well that escalated quickly
VOTE: ABR

That was a false claim, intended to see who takes the bait and jumps on asap. Guess who.

I wasn't convinced after your initial 'slip', but you're convincing me now. What is your role, and what is your flavor?

these posts imo don't come from a town mindset, especially when dark says he is convinced himself shos is scum but he doesn't vote him. Why would he not vote someone he just said was scum? Shos had 5 votes so he wasn't hammering him. I honestly felt like he was trying to stoke the fire but keep his hands clean.

my justification to support this is my own personal experience.

and yes there probably was scum on the wagon, I just don't know which one so i'd rather pressure and possibly lynch the person I felt came off the scummiest day 1.

Dear lord you're making this complicated. I can't figure out how this would come from town. Then again, I don't think scum would be stupid enough to post it. Argh..

this post doesn't come from somebody who is town imo and it sounds really silly but the argh at the end of the sentence makes it seem fake to me


p.edit - yes I honestly do believe it and no I am not going to go through all of my old games to prove anything to you.

so if you really are dead set on lynching hopkirk, your time is better spent convincing somebody else.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Mantisdreamz

All you're doing is pointing fingers. You have literally no case against Mr_Ree. I don't like how certain you appear based on your lack of evidence.
Also, that may be the most consecutive posts I have seen.

I mean you had no case on hop and you were pretty sure he was scum...

I just read your ISO, and you have more posts about Rob being scum, with actual reasons and logic, than you do about Dark, which seem to rely on indigestion at some point. Or, his lack of lynching town players. Or something.

Going with patsy at this point, but your making it easy to do.

Vote: Rob13

[PeregrineV]

The way ree hard defended rob makes me think he's the cop clear which is why I'm not voting him now.

Yeah, I almost bought that, but I think he was relying way too much on his read.

Plus Rob is better than this.
Town-Rob
Subject: Mini 1399: Buckshot Mafia (GAME OVER)

I've explained why I'm not voting ProHawk. I'm not sure enough that he's scum to put him at L-2. He's getting there, but he's not to the point where I'm certain enough that he is scum to lynch him. It would be one thing if he had a vote or two on him. It's entirely another when he could easily be lynched at any time.

You claim I'm ProHawk's scum-partner. This makes little sense. If I was scum with him, then my posts targeting him would be an attempt at bussing. Bussing pretty much requires a vote. Without a vote, scum-me would just be drawing attention to my partner while not gaining all that much town-cred. It would be a pointless play to make.

Coaching Lannister? No. I'm identifying Lastsurvivor's question as stupid and explaining why so that we can explore avenues of investigation that will actually yield something.

Unvote

That was L-1. We need a claim before L-1. I will vote you if there is not a full-claim within 24 hours, however, inte. You have been warned.

Scum-Rob
Subject: Mini 1407 (Game Over)

@All - We have a bit over a day left. We need to allow ample time to change lynchee if necessary post-claim. Matt is L-3. Please bring him up to L-1 and ask for a claim unless you have major reservations on lynching him. If you do, speak now.

Unvote

That last post is enough to warrant an unvote.

@Lincolm: Why did you put Fitz at L-1 before he even responded in-thread? Especially after Empire explicitly mentioned it was a bad idea to vote further before a response...

(Note-Fitz was scumbuddy)

[PeregrineV]

I haven't read everything yet - craaaaazy week. But I do want to note one thing I saw when I had some time to read a few posts, and that's Peregrine's apparent belief that I'm scumreading him with Albert. No. If you can't think of a reason for scum to white knight the person who just quickhammered, someone who was being town read by many people in the prior day, right out the gate ... well, then maybe your play isn't as good as I gave it credit for earlier.

Let's go with I am a shitty player, and think you're likely scum, and go from there.

[PeregrineV]

From looking over Ree's iso, it would appear he did cop Rob night1.

(ABR) is scum with (Rob) and Beck, because anyone that scumreads any of you gets lynched and killed.

Don't see any way Ree copped Rob and got town, at this point. My guess is he copped Eek, so ended up with nothing.

So...I'm a little bit confused here. Do you think Ree investigated Rob? Do you think he investigated Eek? Do you think he got a guilty on Rob, and if so, why?

At first, maybe. But looking at Rob's play, I no longer think so.
Probably did investigate Eek. He called him lurky town, which are two words you do not see together often, because they usually don't go together.
I don't think he got a guilty on Rob. If he did, he would have stuck to Rob no matter what.

Already going over this, but Beck says that Ree was scum for the fake dayvig (see post 691).
Do you feel like Beck was dead when Ree posted 673?

Kind of, at first. I've seen a town daykill before (well, an attempted one anyway), and I've never seen it used as a gambit, so it seemed entirely possible to me. That being said, it became obvious pretty quickly that it was fake.

Ree did it to create controversy and generate discussion. Usually more useful day1, but no reason you can't do it day2.

Ummmm. Just because town-ABR hammers when he shouldn't does not mean that scum-ABR cannot do the same thing.
Tell me you realize the truth of this.

Yes, I know that, and it's a valid point.

I haven't played with scumAlbert before, but I've played three with him as town and I feel like I've got a pretty good handle on what his town play looks like -- this looks like his town play. I've also looked through at least one of his scum games and got an impression that he's one of those people where his play is actually distinctly different when he's scum. He tends to be more calm and pro-town. When he's town, he's erratic, pushy and sometimes reckless.

That's what I'm seeing here.

OK.
Realize that I'm not a huge fan of these types of reads since it does nothing to help in MY read of him.

A gambit is something that you, the reader, do not know the outcome of.

I think it should be obvious that most people think of gambits as being tricks players pull on each other and that whether the audience knows if it's real doesn't enter into whether it's a gambit or not.

Now I just have to decide how plausible it is that you, as scum, would offer such protracted defense on such a trivial point.

Plus, the simple fact that I can see shos is dead VT, Ree is dead cop and Eek is dead VT, so there is no reason for me to think Ree is "gambitting". You could call it a reaction test, but even those work better then you are there instead of reading it later.
And while I persoanly am not fond of the reaction by Beck, his iso is pretty transparent, even if I don't like parts of it. He's probably not scum.

1) (Beck was the) Top suspect of town cop.

I don't know if that was really true. He came out swinging against Hop and his vote kept returning to Hop throughout D2.

What makes you think Ree didn't get a guilty on Hopkirk?

He may have, but he seemed to be chasing Hopkirk for the day1 hammer. Now, as a cop-role, I've used non-cop reasons to chase down guilties, and I like using interactions with those guilties to try to catch more scum, but in the end a guilty is a guaranteed scum catch, so all focus would stay on that guilty even while you scumhunt others. So that in the event of your death and flip, town knows what you know. I think Ree was scumhunting but using his townread on Rob and scumread on Hopkirk (both base don play), and not using PR results.

I could be wrong, but think Ree knows enough not to leave an actual guilty.

Post game if you are town I will be reporting you. Good day

Present Beck, listen to past Beck:

I want to be a player people enjoy playing with rather one people avoid like I was in the past.

Not relevant to the game, but good point. Didn't see anything reportable, so maybe express yourself in an alternate way...

[PeregrineV]

Peregrine, I really don't think that Rob is scum. He's way too stubborn and drops himself into uncomfortable roles without regard for how he looks. What do you think of hiplop? You've barely made any mention of him in the entire game.

Meh. If we weren't already in day2, I'd say lynch him for town's sake.

Town hiplop trying: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=39066

Every other hiplop game: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=44900

Of course, to be fair, I haven't even checked his ISO yet. After I do, I'll probably take the above statement back, to be sure.

[PeregrineV]

-Presence on both mislynches

why do people insist on using this against people? I see it all the time and it literally means nothing.


also for the record, hopkirk isn't a cop guilty cause there is no way a cop would ever change his vote to somebody else if he has a guilty so your logic is 100% flawed on that aspect.


If a pere wagon doesn't go through i'd be ok with your lynch, when I read your posts I don't see town motivation.


what makes this game suck is we literally have like 5 or 6 people who have no interest in finding scum and that makes me want to replace out and regret ever coming back

It's easy to complain about the thread, but you get more out of it by making people do stuff instead.

[PeregrineV]

Peregrine, I really don't think that Rob is scum. He's way too stubborn and drops himself into uncomfortable roles without regard for how he looks. What do you think of hiplop? You've barely made any mention of him in the entire game.

Meh. If we weren't already in day2, I'd say lynch him for town's sake.

Town hiplop trying: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=39066

Every other hiplop game: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=44900

Of course, to be fair, I haven't even checked his ISO yet. After I do, I'll probably take the above statement back, to be sure.

hiplop ISO not as bad as I expected. But want to have him in here talking more.

[PeregrineV]

It's easy to complain about the thread, but you get more out of it by making people do stuff instead.

It's not my job to make people play the game.

It's your job to root out scum. People not playing can't have their alignment determined. People that can't be sorted will work against your town wincon fo finding scum.

So, as town, it's in your best interest to try to make them play. If they resist that hard, but don't leave the game, they are probably scum.

[PeregrineV]

Pere - his day start posts reak of scum and nothing he has posted since has improved his slot. I also think somebody called him out for not contributing and he tried to overcompensate by over contributing. that reads scummy to me also.

I never realized there was a fine line between not contributing and over contributing.

I promise to massively reduce my content filled posting and increase my post count simultaneously.

But, that does kind of bore me, so I'll most likely stick to what I normally do.

[PeregrineV]

After Hopkirk helped lynch Mr. Ree, he's been using me as a crutch to divert attention from himself. He's more focused on absolving himself of responsibility for shos and Ree, than explaining his reads. He threatens me with votes based on "hypocrisy". He shows none of the inquisitiveness that I'd normally expect from town. His three suspects at the end of yesterday were me, DLA and Rob. DLA and I vote for Hopkirk today, and we remain on his top suspect list, yet Rob opens with a vote for Peregrine, and is opportunistically dropped from it without explanation. Come on guys, you do the math.

Those are my top 2.
Peregrine is also in my scum pile.
Rob isn't so much.

Peregrine, what are your thoughts on 1334?

I didn't see much of reasoning from Hopkirk for shos vote ("he didn't claim") or Ree vote ("OK") or even the Rob vote. But, he has a chance to answer so we can all see where he is coming from.

But, he was also the top scum suspect of the person lynched yesterday. Don't you fear a repeat of that?

[PeregrineV]

Iso of Dark hoping to find him scumming up the thread. But his thing yesterday was Hopkirk=scummy and case-for-scum-Ree=bad.

Challenged Rob on bad Ree-scum logic (734).

Argued against Beck (which seems anyone's natrual inclination) but still scumhunting on Mantiz & Hopkirk.

@ABR

- 393 deals with Hopkirk attitude shift with shos vote. If you are not scum with Dark, Hopkirk may just be caught.

[PeregrineV]

But, he was also the top scum suspect of the person lynched yesterday. Don't you fear a repeat of that?

What? I can't make sense of what you just said.

Yesterday Ree started by voting Hopkirk, and Ree was lynched.

Are you concerned that you want Hopkirk lynched and it may be you instead?

[PeregrineV]

So your theory is that I must be afraid, because whoever pushes a Hopkirk case gets mislynched the same day?

No, but I want to make the point that I don't see how Ree got lynched. I don't get the reasons for the votes on him. I don't see why him posting a dayvig on Beck is scummy. And I don't see why those same crappy reasons for voting him are being disregarded today.

I'll wait for Hopkirk to answer your question about his change in stance towards Rob.

In 1341, I was pointing out that Dark also questioned Hopkirk about his shos "shift in attitude", kind of what you are questioning him about his change in stance on Rob.

I think that unless you are scum with Dark and are scheming this highly similar attack style, Hopkirk is probably scum.

[PeregrineV]

@ABR- 393 deals with Hopkirk attitude shift with shos vote. If you are not scum with Dark, Hopkirk may just be caught.

Can you explain like I'm five again?

Peregrine, I find you hard to understand, where are you from?

U.S.

I just no longer connect all 10 dotes 1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-10. I kind of go 1...5...10 and expect questions about the numbers in-between if needed.

[PeregrineV]

I'm going to be claiming today anyway, might as well do it now.

Vanilla Townie
Bogdan Wolynetz
The car wash owner

I thought the car wash wasn't until later in the show.

[PeregrineV]

I'm going to be claiming today anyway, might as well do it now.

Vanilla Townie
Bogdan Wolynetz
The car wash owner

I thought the car wash wasn't until later in the show.

Nevermind, I'm thinking about the buying of it. I forgot Walt worked there part-time.

[PeregrineV]

I'm going to be claiming today anyway, might as well do it now.

Vanilla Townie
Bogdan Wolynetz
The car wash owner

What about this?

Last time you mentionned Rob, he was on your list of top scum, now he's not. Why?

Why is Peregrine scum? What about Tool and hiplop, who are voting you? What are your reads on them and why?

[PeregrineV]

Clearly i must be an idiot since i killed eek.
Please look at Alberto and Darklight tomorrow.
Tomorrow will probably be close to last chance/possibly last chance so please be careful.
Badger and combo need to be added to the list earlier.

Clearly you must be a town idiot, since Rob the townread put you at L-1 for the hammer. Deja vu, no?

Who are badger and combo?

[PeregrineV]

So much opportunism today. Shame i won't be able to compare the wagons/differences near the end now.

Are you going with your scumreads of Dark, Albert, and me?

[PeregrineV]

So much opportunism today. Shame i won't be able to compare the wagons/differences near the end now.

Umm, you were just accused and voted and hammered for your opportunism.....

Hopkirk continuing to be opportunistic

[PeregrineV]

So much opportunism today. Shame i won't be able to compare the wagons/differences near the end now.

Umm, you were just accused and voted and hammered for your opportunism.....

Hopkirk continuing to be opportunistic

...
When was i oppertunistic?

Yo, you're asking the wrong guy here. Ask one of your 6 voters. I had a lot more digging into you I was going to do first.

[PeregrineV]

So much opportunism today. Shame i won't be able to compare the wagons/differences near the end now.

Are you going with your scumreads of Dark, Albert, and me?

Are you going with your scumreads of Dark, Albert, me and Cuttlefish?

[PeregrineV]

Alberto and Cuttle are pretty suspicious for voting me then doing the thing they voted me for themselves. That's pretty opportunistic.

yes the only reason for why you were lynched is because you hammered shos without a claim.
keep telling yourself that buddy.

Your now in same boat. We should get a start on your reads now, while waiting for Jason.

Let's assume a Hopkirk townflip, cause deadscum don't need to hang around.

Who is scum?

[PeregrineV]

to answer your question, quickly, about tool... it is part eek's read.. and also part that i iso'ed him (didn't read everything, mind you). but i just saw a lot of factual input on his part. compare that to someone like beck or rob, where they have way more emotion in their posts. it's easy to be factual as scum

I think it's easier as scum to fake emotions and ignore facts.

[PeregrineV]

Alberto and Cuttle are pretty suspicious for voting me then doing the thing they voted me for themselves. That's pretty opportunistic.

yes the only reason for why you were lynched is because you hammered shos without a claim.
keep telling yourself that buddy.

Your now in same boat. We should get a start on your reads now, while waiting for Jason.

Let's assume a Hopkirk townflip, cause deadscum don't need to hang around.

Who is scum?

idk, hiplop for sure. and since tomorrow is lylo i'm not sure why i'd compromise on anyone else; if i vote before anyone else then it's my way or the highway

why is hiplop scum?

[PeregrineV]

glad to see my gut read on hop was right and looks like my cuttle/pere scum reads are spot on. Started off slow but i'm finding my groove now.

You go, guy!!

[PeregrineV]

glad to see my gut read on hop was right and looks like my cuttle/pere scum reads are spot on. Started off slow but i'm finding my groove now.

So is Hopkirk town or scum?

[PeregrineV]

he said he is town after he was hammered, so i'm rolling with that he's not trolling and he's town

OK. And your Rob read?

[PeregrineV]

why is hiplop scum?

because the algorithm used to distribute roles in this game randomly selected hiplop to receive an anti-town PM.

However true, it's day3, so I require in-game reasons at this point.

[PeregrineV]

he said he is town after he was hammered, so i'm rolling with that he's not trolling and he's town

OK. And your Rob read?

I think he is the cop clear, but I am not 100% so leaning town. I already covered all of this...

somebody needs to

READ THE THREAD

OK, I misspoke myself.

1. Beck, do you think Rob is town?
Beck: I think he is the cop clear, but I am not 100% so leaning town.

2. Beck, when you read Rob's posts and discount any potential PR results, do you think he is more likely town or more likely scum?

[PeregrineV]

so my theory was right after all, I was the doc save night 1. After lunch I will be reexamining the people who tried to get me lynched day 2.

Why do you think this?

[PeregrineV]

Alright, well, for what it's worth, I think the scum are DLA, Tool and Peregrine. DLA because of his contrived posts, Tool because of the night kills, Peregrine because of his tunnel on Rob. Hiplop could be scum. Cuttle and Beck aren't confirmed town, but they've done too many townie things for me to change my opinion.

Those reads are a bucket of suck.

[PeregrineV]

I think that last Hopkirk WTF moment has made me interested in this game. Time to turn things on a bit.

Town (in no particular order; various strengths of read):
toolenduso

-Eek- I am a Belgian -_-

Cuttlefish

Mantisdreamz

Albert B. Rampage

Nullish:
hiplop
DarkLightA

Salamence20

Scum Pool:

Hopkirk

Beck

Mr_Ree

@Mod - Speaking of which, can we get a replace on Salamence, if you aren't already looking for one? He was prodded a while back iirc. <3

I'll answer the first question out of people's mouths is going to be "Why so many null reads toward the end of Day 2?"

My answer is that, to be blunt, I haven't been trying very hard (or even necessarily reading all posts fully) until now. I wasn't very motivated, and I've discussed my motivation issues regarding this game previously. I hope to ISO those players soonish, when I have time.

See you guys in a bit. Lynch

Hopkirk

while I'm gone, please. It's also my birthday tomorrow, so it will be a nice present.

How did those ISOs go, Rob?

[PeregrineV]

aargh, can't take it.

Vote: Rob

[PeregrineV]

Vote: No lynch

because I'm not either of:

A) Scum
B) Someone who doesn't know how MyLo works

Amazingly, you have yet to cast a vote for scum that I can find. Bussing hiplop is RVS is the only maybe I can find.

[PeregrineV]

3. Multiple times you objected to looking at hammers and such in order to find scum.

First - I objected to looking at 1 hammer, not multiple hammers.
Second - I said a hammer doesn't mean anything, because it didn't.
Third - hopkirk was town so I know what I am talking about
Fourth - yes I realize I already said it but I am saying it again cause it's 100% truth. Looking at or not wanting to look at the hammer vote is not the same thing as doing vote count analysis. Not even in the same ballpark.



Why don't you do some VCA and tell me what you come up with, or anything else that could remotely looked at as being useful before criticizing how helpful I have been.

You still thinking Rob was the Ree investigation?

[PeregrineV]

Cop is believed to be overpowered by most on this site, cop /doc/RB I will say no way is in this setup

I don't get it.

Cop and doc already flipped.

You are basically saying "You don't believe in a Roleblocker in this game."

Where did that come from?

[PeregrineV]

Why is no one thinking logically here?

We're better off waiting. There's three no lynch votes now. That's probably not changing. We need all 5 town (assuming normal setup) to vote for a correct player to avoid loss. That means that if a single town player is voting no lynch, it's impossible not to mislynch.

So let's no lynch and take the discussion to LyLo. Ok?

Logically, town dies tonight.

Logically, there will be one less town voice tomorrow.

Logically, everyone should give their complete reasons for all of their townreads and scumreads, that way the dead townie, nominally, has some influence on tomorrow's events.

When we complete that, I'll be happy to vote for no-lynch.

Sorry guys, that was mine.

[PeregrineV]

Why is no one thinking logically here?

We're better off waiting. There's three no lynch votes now. That's probably not changing. We need all 5 town (assuming normal setup) to vote for a correct player to avoid loss. That means that if a single town player is voting no lynch, it's impossible not to mislynch.

So let's no lynch and take the discussion to LyLo. Ok?

Logically, town dies tonight.

Logically, there will be one less town voice tomorrow.

Logically, everyone should give their complete reasons for all of their townreads and scumreads, that way the dead townie, nominally, has some influence on tomorrow's events.

When we complete that, I'll be happy to vote for no-lynch.

"nominally", but not really.

Given our current state, every drop of info and opinion will help.

[PeregrineV]

First you admit we'll be better off tomorrow, and then you say losing is the fault of those who no lynch?

What he is saying is that there is no death that will give up MORE information than we have now.

It does help to reduce the lynch pool, but considering the high number of scumreads (weak or strong), it won't help any.

To help you, besides yourself, who is the towniest player?

[PeregrineV]

Peregrine, I've been down that line of thinking earlier today.

Beck, who do you actually think is town?

nobody

Yeah, I know beck thinks he's the last townie and 6 scum left or something, but he thinks Rob is town, so I'll mostly talking to Dark about it.

Also, you should vote Rob.

[PeregrineV]

At least 2 of the scum are DLA and Peregrine. They're not even following the game anymore, they think they've won already.

And Rob is my buddy. I'm bussing him for towncred. You should too.

[PeregrineV]

Vote: Rob

[PeregrineV]

Great game, except for the losing part.

Bad hammers should 90% time be investigated/lynched.

Albert should 95% of the time be lynched.

Beck- your passion is commendable, but cutting back on the vitriol would help with persuading others.

Rob- it's been a while but I hope to God that your townplay this time was an anomaly.

Jason- thanks for letting me replace in, and thanks for modding!

[PeregrineV]

http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/v5VThApXSnjJ

It's funny, I actually looked up the isos of Beck and Jake From State Farm. Beck hadn't played a game of mafia since Jake's join date (2012). Beck /inned for his first game in years about a week before Jake's last-played game ended, in July. Jake hasn't played any games since then. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. Can it be??

Skimmed through. It's funny how the dead thread seemed to miss the scumteam also.

[PeregrineV]

Albert should 95% of the time be lynched.

Why?

To have the mod properly confirm your alignment, of course.

[PeregrineV]

No, I don't think Beck and Jake are the same... the play-styles are pretty different I think. I've played with, and modded games with Jake in them a few times. I don't think Beck is Jake.

The last time I played with Jake he threatened to replace out, reported me for something stupid, and claimed to be the best player in the game. So I'd say their playstyles are pretty identical.

He sounds hideous