Mini 1608--Mafia on the Air(Fin)

[gossamer wings]

omg

I almost spit the water I'm not drinking onto my computer screen.

5-off is town!

[gossamer wings]

Totally agree with Tammy. I was unsure earlier but he made me laugh so he's town.

~ F-16

[gossamer wings]

Mala's tone is so damn weird, she feels so posturey this game.

She's probably town, though I have reservations, but I wish she'd stop with her act.

Her other head either needs to out who she is, I have a guess it's one out of two, or stop bread dumbing her identity/taunting ika for not figuring it out. I don't get the purpose of wanting a secret hydra and then trying to leak it to one of a couple of people.

Just stop.

Also, if you're really reading me as town because I got mad, that is a shit way to read me and not a town tell. I was town from the start.

[gossamer wings]

Bork - I saw you asked a question. I was Mia mostly yesterday so haven't had a chance to finish discussing things with falcon, we'll get to later I'm sure.

[gossamer wings]

Her other head either needs to out who she is, I have a guess it's one out of two, or stop bread dumbing her identity/taunting ika for not figuring it out. I don't get the purpose of wanting a secret hydra and then trying to leak it to one of a couple of people.

So they can say "don't you wish you knew?"

If they were actually interested in keeping it secret they wouldn't hint at their identities or sign posts.

One did out it and the other is still crumbing to one person. Either she needs to out it or stop it.

[gossamer wings]

Also if italics head could answer the questions I've asked twice now that would be super sweet.

[gossamer wings]

I am somewhat inclined to give Anatole a night though.

I would not be averse to lynching csareo though that's almost a shot in the dark. I need to nail down just what it is I don't like about honeybee but it started from me just not liking the interaction with fonz at a gut level but not really knowing which end was really pinging me. I'm still not sure.

[gossamer wings]

VOTE: nashville dreans

They are not town. I have somewhere to be but when I get back I will make the last post I will make to either head of that damn hydra.

[gossamer wings]

I've just lifted weights for an hour, so this post is going to be a hell of a lot nicer than it would have been. You're welcome.

Mala your tone is weird. I've gone back and read games and you still feel weird. I've contemplated that it's an aspect of the hydra as I think that can influence people at times. For instance in board games I had a hard time reading ffery because she sounded more arrogant at times than I associate with her. I kinda decided it wAs the product of hydraing with cabd and cabd said maras more arrogant when she hydras with him and that he just has that effect on people. >_>

Idk what you're referring to with song lyrics. I dont care if you post lyrics. I was also not on your back. I was perfectly fine calling you town and being amused that you were claiming to be so good at reading my tone while calling me not town. I didn't know who you were at that point and I didn't care to know. I would have found it odd if you are sorting me that way as mala I guess I don't know. I don't know what to tell you if you didn't catch that I was amused and not taking it too seriously. The focusing on just me was starting to feel weird though.

What became problematic was other head misrepping my frustration to four trouble and how I felt he was talking to me. I mean at first I even thought that was funny because it was so ludicrous to think I was buddying four trouble, but it turns out the accusation was even more insane. And then that whole heads string of posts and accusations get worse. I never claimed it was a tvt or svt fight and if you actually read my posts, I was calling baboon town with not that strong a case but falcon and I were trying to figure out four troubles alignment. How your other head came to the conclusions she did is baffling and just demonstrates that she is not reading my posts.

Hounding me to name a suspect between them when I'd been upfront with my thoughts was ridiculous. I still don't know what she hoped to achieve and she refuses to answer what the purpose wAs. I don't so much need an answr but I was interested in the response. And then when people not me challenge her buddying accusation, she goes into hiding and refuses to address it. I e asked more than once why she ignored people challenging that accusation and she refuses to answer. (What I find adorable is that after pulling this attitude with me she has the gall to address me as she has today.)

I only started having a problem with your head when you talked about that conversation I had with you about nacho but left it so vague because I know I hadn't scum slipped or did anything remotely how I've caught nacho. It felt like using partial information to validate a scum read on me when I couldn't address it or defend against it. As I ran through who I'd had conversations with about that none of them made sense to come from town and to be sorting me and interacting with me the way that other head had. And no I'm not good at telling heads apart in hydras.

I do think if you're going to be a secret hydra you be a secret hydra. If people figure it out fine, but crumbing it to certain people and then basically taunting someone for not getting it. Trolling is one thing but enough is enough, it's a distraction and is pretty much becoming a distraction. If you can't see that if you want to be a secret hydra you should stay a secret hydra then I do t know what to say. I mean I have secret alts that some people know because they e figured it out.

But if you're town you're other head should back off or not actually I don't have any intention of interacting there again. I'm not scum, I'd love for her to try to explain why I'm scum though because at the very least I'm trying to read you guys. Also if I weren't such a fucking sweetheart I'd respond to the threat of being impolite with bring it but don't be surprised when I can out bitch the best of them. But as I actually care about this game not turning into a shitfest I won't respond so if she wants to continue trying to bait me go ahead babycakes. Have fun! (That was probably passive aggressive)

My earlier point still stands, and I note that once again after being challenged by an accusation she goes into hiding.

And I will say to other head that you can't really bitch about someone's interaction with you when you start things off on the wrong foot. I've learned that lesson in recent games and it's why I've been trying to be less abrasive/condescending in my sorting.

Anyway I feel like I just repeated some of what I've already said but that's where I'm coming from.

[gossamer wings]

Also Anatole how date you call me the least charming *cry*

[gossamer wings]

I'm at the gym and haven't even read all of yesterday's posts yet as I've only skimmed...and been self absorbed. I'll be home in a bit and can actually catch up then

[gossamer wings]

Anatole, I would really like to know why you are townreading us with specifics.

~ F-16

[gossamer wings]

L-2 now. I'll claim everything I know if gossamer thinks it's a good idea - they haven't commented at all on my claim I don't think.

You're a wizard who needs an item to do something?

I'm not sure what I should say about your role. Why is it dependent on if we think it's a good idea?

[gossamer wings]

I'm more than a little unnerved that csareo replaced in, made that weird claim and maneuver and then disappeared. He has been onsite and posting, which isn't the greatest tell but.

[gossamer wings]

Ah. Okay.

I'm still catching up. I do love games with games though, just as a side note. (This is not a soft claim or breadcrumb, I just like games with objects. We've played a few at westeros and they always add a cool dimension to the game.)

[gossamer wings]

I know that zar is planning a Halloween game for mid October.

[gossamer wings]

Surprising not everything in this game revolves around Tammy!

~M

*hmmph*

My ego will survive

[gossamer wings]

i think ak is trying to rolefish by saying he needs something to prove his role.

i dont buy it. if your town you can just show it.

@tammy just tell me who it is and cut the crap.

I'm not in the business of outing people's mains no matter how irritating she is. (Besides I might not even be right). I just want her to stop it and start playing the game.

Yeah yeah yeah

[gossamer wings]

us
FT
Lissa
5-off (who is the one with the info)

Let me clear something up about this info:
5-Off said it was labelled as "rumors" that there was a "double agent." It wasn't a flat-out "there is definitely a scum intern."
And there is certainly still the possibility that he was gambiting.

Rereading to try and get better reads and see what else I need to respond to.

This is the post that gave me a scum vibe originally - I saw that and said "wow, if there's a scum intern this is probably her." Then I read Baboon, thought Baboon looked scummy too, then Lissa inexplicably has a townread on Baboon (though several people seem to now, so that doesn't mean a whole lot) and makes some really weak points to justify her RVS vote on 4t (basically just summarizing his posts - for example, her analysis for one of his posts saying Baboon doesn't seem town motivated is "scumreads baboon" as if that alone means anything to his alignment). She feels like she's going through the motions - townreading vocal players, scumreading easy targets, and just posting in a way that comes across as artificial and careful to me.

Some of that can be explained by her being rather new as well though.

[gossamer wings]

A fruit vendor is the most important, most dangerous role in any mafia game. True story.

[gossamer wings]

"I'm not explaining my townreads"

I will say that I can tell when tammy is legitimately annoyed and what her town game looks like. In timeshift I read some of her meta to see if I could find anything to implicate her as scum, on top of obviously playing in that game.

F-16 seems pretty reasonable too.

You read my meta to see if you could implicate me as the serial killer or mafia?

[gossamer wings]

It's call it in the air alright yes sir we want the ball
And it's knockin' heads and talkin' trash
It's slingin' mud and dirt and grass
It's I got your number, I got your back
When your back's against the wall
You mess with one man, you got us all



i see it as between you and ft. i strongly think ft is town. i got no opinion on you so if you die boohoo.

Oh this might not be mala head. This is the post that felt posturey coming from mala.

[gossamer wings]

I was looking for any way to try and pick at the instant universal town-read you got. If I had managed to lynch you, barring the wrath of god-esque replace-in from aegor, that game could have turned out differently.

That feels like a stretch to do though. I was practically confirmed town once pere claimed VIG.

[gossamer wings]

F-16, pretty sure Lissa is referring to your post in combo with Ceph's post you edited out, where Ceph says my intent was to get Tammy paranoid. Which wasn't my intent at the time but I do hope it had that effect.

This felt town.

[gossamer wings]

Anatole's end of the conversation with Bork starting about 944 is somewhat concerning. It's reminiscent of the way he responded to bulbazack when he scum read him correctly. I thought he looked townish when he did it then. I'll need to see if I can find a town game where he treats people similarly under suspicion.

[gossamer wings]

Hounding me to name a suspect between them when I'd been upfront with my thoughts was ridiculous. I still don't know what she hoped to achieve and she refuses to answer what the purpose wAs. I don't so much need an answr but I was interested in the response. And then when people not me challenge her buddying accusation, she goes into hiding and refuses to address it. I e asked more than once why she ignored people challenging that accusation and she refuses to answer.

[gossamer wings]

Anatole, I would really like to know why you are townreading us with specifics.

~ F-16

Why ask this if you're town?

Are you kidding? The issue is not my affiliation but how and why Anatole developed that read with so much certainty so I can glean some insight into his alignment.

~ F-16

[gossamer wings]

Is there something about Anatole's read that makes you think it's based on "inside" knowledge of your alignment? I just don't see how that question will help determine Anatole's alignment.

I do. It was a strong town read given rather easily. I realize that this will sound like I'm never satisfied and maybe I'm not, but town reads given too easily freak me out just as much as scum reads over stupid things. Because scum do both. I'm an easy town read to give. I tend to get read town pretty early and I'm a bitch and half to lynch. In many instances, scum just call me town and night kill me after the more immediate threats or before. Scum sometimes pick at me or bait me for really stupid reasons mostly in order to cause a distraction because I scumhunt

omgus

scumreads on me. I also scumhunt town reads on me.

So yeah, figuring out whether or not he actually read me as town genuinely can tell us something about his alignment.

[gossamer wings]

Is there something about Anatole's read that makes you think it's based on "inside" knowledge of your alignment? I just don't see how that question will help determine Anatole's alignment.

I do. It was a strong town read given rather easily. I realize that this will sound like I'm never satisfied and maybe I'm not, but town reads given too easily freak me out just as much as scum reads over stupid things. Because scum do both. I'm an easy town read to give. I tend to get read town pretty early and I'm a bitch and half to lynch. In many instances, scum just call me town and night kill me after the more immediate threats or before. Scum sometimes pick at me or bait me for really stupid reasons mostly in order to cause a distraction because I scumhunt

omgus

scumreads on me. I also scumhunt town reads on me.

So yeah, figuring out whether or not he actually read me as town genuinely can tell us something about his alignment.

The problem with this is that scum already know who the town are, so they're gonna spot town-tells much more easily than the town will. So scum don't have to fake reasoning for their town-reads, and town obviously don't fake town-reads, so I'm not sure how you tell the difference between a scum town-read and a town town-read. I can understand your question but I don't see it doing much, and it strikes me as a minor scum-tell (more likely that scum would wonder why someone town-reads them than town).

That's okay! You scumhunt your way and I'll scum hunt mine.

[gossamer wings]

But anyway, don't you think you should see if they do this as town before declaring it a scumtell?

It's a general-tell based on the logic of who would ask the question. Town know they're town, so they wouldn't question why someone town-reads them, they would know it's because they are town and the person town-reading them either "knows" that or has figured it out. Either way, the reasoning is genuine/correct.

I haven't looked into their meta to see if they do this as town but I've seen F-16 do it as scum before during a "quickfire" game on a different site. Though I might check their meta on this cause it has definitely made me reconsider their alignment here.

LOL.

That's okay. Just ignore my answer to this question because one thing I LOVE is someone ignoring my answer and then telling me how to scumhunt!

[gossamer wings]

<:

No.

@F-16:

I know Tammy doesn't want to work with me, but do you mind maybe setting aside a few mins or so to talk to me, please?

~M

I think the fact that I wrote an entire huge wall explaining my entire thought process means I'll talk to you.

[gossamer wings]

And I made that big wall on my phone while riding a bicycle! I hate phone posting.

[gossamer wings]

And it was snowing!

[gossamer wings]

We're kinda going back and forth. He doesn't have a lot of depth in his thinking and I kinda felt weird when he voted you guys this morning.

[gossamer wings]

<:

No.

@F-16:

I know Tammy doesn't want to work with me, but do you mind maybe setting aside a few mins or so to talk to me, please?

~M

I think Tammy is happy to engage you and so am I. What's up?

~ F-16

[gossamer wings]

Hey FT, I remember me questioning townreads on me as both affiliation on DDO and you even mentioned it a few times. How did you suddenly forget that I do it as town too? I'm going to go look up the links if you want but I'm surprised you don't remember.

~ F-16

[gossamer wings]

But anyway, don't you think you should see if they do this as town before declaring it a scumtell?

It's a general-tell based on the logic of who would ask the question. Town know they're town, so they wouldn't question why someone town-reads them, they would know it's because they are town and the person town-reading them either "knows" that or has figured it out. Either way, the reasoning is genuine/correct.

I haven't looked into their meta to see if they do this as town but I've seen F-16 do it as scum before during a "quickfire" game on a different site. Though I might check their meta on this cause it has definitely made me reconsider their alignment here.

LOL.

That's okay. Just ignore my answer to this question because one thing I LOVE is someone ignoring my answer and then telling me how to scumhunt!

I did not ignore your answer. I responded directly to it. Which you then replied to with your typical "don't tell me how to scumhunt" bullshit.

Your "I have nothing to learn, I'm already a perfect scumhunter" attitude is toxic. You can keep responding to all my posts that way but that won't get us anywhere. Engaging my argument, explaining why you disagree, pointing out why/how what you're doing is better, that would be more productive and would help us reach some common ground. I admit I still have a lot to learn but just dismissing everything I say instead of addressing its substance really isn't pro-town or helpful at all.

I never said I'm perfect, I think I'm far from perfect and far from a perfect scumhunter, but every time you've asked me a question and I've given you an answer, your response has been essentially "you're not doing it right". That isn't trying to figure out what I'm thinking or why or engaging with me or why. That's you AGAIN telling me what I'm supposed to believe according to your concepts.

I consider your end of the interaction toxic.

You could have very easily asked me what I learned or thought I learned from my questions to Anatole, but you didn't. You decided to tell me what I should or shouldn't be doing.

[gossamer wings]

*Falcon asked the first question, but I'm the one who continued talking to Anatole.

[gossamer wings]

I never said I'm perfect, I think I'm far from perfect and far from a perfect scumhunter, but every time you've asked me a question and I've given you an answer, your response has been essentially "you're not doing it right". That isn't trying to figure out what I'm thinking or why or engaging with me or why. That's you AGAIN telling me what I'm supposed to believe according to your concepts.

I consider your end of the interaction toxic.

You could have very easily asked me what I learned or thought I learned from my questions to Anatole, but you didn't. You decided to tell me what I should or shouldn't be doing.

I asked you what you thought you could learn from the question to Anatole, you said you believed it could tell you something about his alignment because his read was strong, I then explained why I believed you wouldn't learn anything, and you then dismissed what I said with your typical "don't tell me how to scumhunt" argument. I'm not just saying you're wrong. I'm explaining why I think the way I do, and I invite you to explain why I'm wrong. What's the problem here? I've tried engaging you multiple times this game to build some common understanding. How is any of that toxic?

Did your questions to Anatole tell you anything about his alignment?

FTFY

I'm so glad you asked. His answer for why he's so strongly town reading me doesn't make sense. He did try to implicate me as the serial killer in that game, but I'm not sure why he would have meta'd me to see how much he could implicate me as mafia in that game. Because of the way the night kills worked out. (I was shot by mafia night one and protected while the serial killer shot mafia night one leaving me all but confirmed town once the serial killer claimed vig.) I'm not sure where he thought he was going to implicate me as scum or why he would meta me to see if he could implicate me as scum.

Now if he means he was metaing me to see if I could be the serial killer in that game, then that would have probably made more sense since he did go along with Bert and try to push me as the serial killer on day four.

So, I don't really like his reasoning for town reading me because it feels too convenient.

[gossamer wings]

Tammy, if you recognize that you aren't perfect and there are still things you can learn, you're not gonna just dismiss anyone who disagrees with you by saying "don't tell me how to scumhunt." You're not gonna stop reading their post 2 sentences in, just because that person is disagreeing with you. You're gonna consider their position, and if you disagree, explain why you disagree. There is a big difference between dismissing someone's position without consideration -- which is what you've been doing all game when I explain my positions to you -- and disagreeing with someone while providing an explanation for that disagreement -- which is what I've been doing all game.

No you haven't. Reread your posts. You tell me why I'm doing it wrong and then tell me that it's better to do it your way.

[gossamer wings]

In fact, this is why I love playing with F-16. I learn a huge amount when I play with him, because I can actually discuss thing with him, and lots of times I'll change my positions because he'll explain why I'm wrong, and lots of times he'll come around to what I'm saying. There is a productive discussion because we both strive to continue improving.

You probably talk to falcon differently than you've been talking to me. And I realize I can be easily annoyed and sensitive at times, but I don't feel that I am here. I know that Falcon respects you and you guys hydra together, so I've been trying to make sure to explain my thoughts to you so that we could work together. I'm an easy person to talk to and work with; I don't mind people disagreeing with me. But that hasn't been what you've been doing. Maybe it's unintentional, i don't know, but you haven't actually listened to what I said instead you've essentially gone you're wrong and doing it wrong, here let me tell you how to do it right. You even did it in 1226; you're telling me what to do; what I should be doing, because you are not listening to me.

[gossamer wings]

Yeah everytime he posts he pings my radar. I don't know if its me just reacting to the buddying of you ++ his scum read on me. I mean the avatar thing was cute and all, but people are right that doesn't *make* him town.

Which player is the player that Falcon can read? Is that FT?

~M

I didn't like 5-Off's vote on you either but I'm waiting to see how it develops. I hope I can get reads on most people. I play with FT and 5-Off offsite. FT and I tend to read each other pretty well. 5-Off and I, not to the same extent, but I think I have a general idea on how he plays.

~ F-16

[gossamer wings]

I don't remember. The last time I played with you was a quickfire game where you were scum, and I distinctly remember you asking me that question. The question never stuck out much before that, but you're right, you might do it as town too. I'm not saying it's a slam dunk scum-tell -- just that logically-speaking, it makes more sense for scum to ask than town.

I distinctly remember you townreading me in a game because I questioned townreads on me. It is only after that that I started to do it as scum because I knew it would fit my town meta. I'd understand if you accused me of trying to emulate my town meta but I have a hard time following this logic.

~ F-16

[gossamer wings]

Anyways,

I'm townreading both {CS & BP} what's your thoughts there?

Also I know tammy just gave me her thoughts on 5-off, but same question applies to you.

And AK.

Those are like my main questions because my other head thinks I'm off base on AK and maaaybe BP.

~M

Agree on CS townread. I'm townreading Mara as well. One post from Ceph pinged but it is a minor thing and I'm waiting to see how it plays out. I'm not sure on AK. I liked his entrance with the way he came in arguing that the cases against FT are bad. I don't know what to make of his early townread on us based on Tammy's posts. I find Tammy rather difficult to meta cold but it is possible he picked up something from that game they played together.

I strongly disagree with his push on Mara. Bork pretty much said everything I was thinking here. I'm not sure what it says about his alignment though. I'd say that town would be more likely to admit they are wrong but something felt off about the way he backed off once Bork and Sleepy cut through his arguments.

~ F-16

[gossamer wings]

Tammy, how should I disagree with you? How can I tell you you're wrong when I think you're wrong?

Just tell me that you think I'm wrong and how you're reading them and why. I mean I love being right and all, but I don't mind being wrong and I don't care if people disagree with me. As difficult of a person as I can be I actually like discussing reads, disagreements and all in mafia, I like finding people I can work with. I don't like feeling talked down to though. Maybe you didn't mean for the "advice" to feel that way, but it did. You can leave that part out, just tell me how you look at it. I told you my thought process and how I came to my conclusions and you can tell me yours. When I say things like scum intent, there's a lot of things wrapped up there. It encompasses the types of things I'd look for and expect in Mara's town v scum play. I *suck* at reading Cephrir and have mostly been focusing on Mara based on some things I think I've learned to pick up on to differentiate her alignment. Can I be wrong? Sure, I can be wrong. I don't feel like I am in this instance.

As far as your thought process question with Mara, I think she sometimes has a hard time really expressing her reads. I think she gets a read or a gut instinct and when she does that the reasons come next and sometimes they aren't really strong, but the important thing here is I believe she believes her read. And that's what leads me to believe she's innocent.

As far as the Anatole question *shrug* I think that most any question that gets you interacting with someone can be productive. (I say this knowing that I've told people they were asking stupid questions before, but hey i can be hypocritical here.) I do have experiences of scum town reading me too quickly because it's just easier to do. Also, I do have a tendency to town read people who town read me or take my side during an argument. I know this, scum know this, and yes I get freaked out if people town read me too quickly or if people not very familiar with me town read me too quickly. Getting them to answer the question can be alignment indicative because there are so many things to responses besides just the generic response. There's tone, how they respond, what answers they give. If they give a genuine sounding response and it's something believable, hey you've got the basis for a read there. One thing with Anatole was in Timeshift he said getting town reads was his thing, and while he was scum there I find that people tend to tell the truth about those types of things. So yeah, I think questions like that can be useful.

[gossamer wings]

In fact, in the recent lurker game where SleepyKrew and I hydrad, scum!desperado gave us a town read too quickly based on some meta tell of Sleepy's. We interrogated him for the entirety of day two regarding that read because it didn't sit well with us and none of his explanations were satisfactory and helped to drop the previous day's town read we had on him.

[gossamer wings]

There is no Arizona
No Painted Desert, no Sedona
If there was a Grand Canyon
She could fill it up with the lies he's told her
But they don't exist, those dreams he sold her
She'll wake up and find
There is no Arizona

Hey, I didn't see you as being transparent. Generally I don't hound after I get my answer unless the answer is significant to make a point. Why didn't you just say [Player X] was scum if they were a scumread? It was infuriating to no end. I prefer black and white realities. If you are confident someone is scum, say it.

I'm not taunting ika for not getting it. Crumbing it to ika, when he knows (and I know he knows) can be used to see who knows too much and why. ika's hellbent on having my head claim not because he doesn't know who I am, but because he wants to be sure the rest of his buddies if they call me by the wrong name do NOT get lynched for knowing too much.

I also suspect but I cannot prove that you may already know who the non-Mala head is as well.

I am posting lyrics because it's fun to post lyrics. Plus they can give some emotional context to the words I type.

There is no Arizona
No Painted Desert, no Sedona
If there was a Grand Canyon
She could fill it up with the lies he's told her
But they don't exist, those dreams he sold her
She'll wake up and find
There is no Arizona

~Hayden P

If I'm confident someone is scum, I do. (Unless I'm holding onto the read to watch interactions) I don't if I have some minor gut feelings and watching something play out.

At that point I was more concerned with figuring out our read on fourtrouble because then that would give us a center and a point from which we could figure the game out.

Scum have daytalk. He could easily tell his buddies if that were the case.

I don't care if you guys post lyrics. I like the lyrics. I consider a form of trivia where I try to guess the song because I'm a dork.

[gossamer wings]

My guess was that it was Titus because she referenced a game of csareo's and I found a newbie he played with Titus. He did do more analysis in that game.

I did not think it was Titus at the time I made that joke though as I thought the interaction with me was weird for Titus.

[gossamer wings]

My concern about Csaero wasn't wholly based on finding that game, though that didn't help. What concerns me is that he has the potential for analysis, but he came in, did his thing and disappeared while posting onsite.

While I don't think the posting other games is the hugest scum tell, it is concerning the way he went about it. He hasn't been back, and is due a prod, and he's been onsite.

[gossamer wings]

My concern about Csaero wasn't wholly based on finding that game, though that didn't help. What concerns me is that he has the potential for analysis, but he came in, did his thing and disappeared while posting onsite.

When you say he has the potential for analysis, wouldn't that imply that he can fake reasoning as scum, too? I feel like what he did was so over-the-top careless that he's gotta just be town.

I only briefly looked at that one newbie game and he was town. The impression I got from his entrance was clueless newbie who was a bit of a VI so I didn't take him seriously all that much. But after Titus mentioned his meta, I looked at that game to see if that was consistent with my impression. I didn't look through all his meta to see what his scum game looked like, just noticed that my original thought was wrong. Then, I've noticed him onsite both yesterday and today while ignoring this game, which is concerning.

I mean he could be someone who is rather new and realized he did something silly and doesn't want to come back, but I don't have a way of figuring that one out.

[gossamer wings]

Tammy, I can understand where F-16 and you are coming from with the "why do you think I'm town" question. I should have waited before commenting, to see where you went with it. Context makes all the difference. But I don't play much mafia these days, and I'm rusty and forgetful, and apparently a bad communicator too, so I fucked that up. But I don't think you guys are scum, and that's not why I said it's a minor scum-tell, though I still think the question isn't that helpful to determining alignment of good players, since they're gonna spot town-tells as scum. You can disagree with me here if you think I'm wrong, but at least in my experience, if I "know" someone is town, spotting their town-tells is much easier. Which is why I think scum have an easy time explaining their town-reads, and why I think the question theoretically doesn't help sort good players' alignments. Anyway. Regarding Anatole, I get what you're saying about his explanation being too "convenient," but at the same time, I'd expect better reasoning from him if he were scum. So it's hard to make much of his read + explanation. I also don't see why he'd lie about his actions in another game -- cause if he's scum, he's going through a lot of trouble to "fabricate" a read on you. It would be so much easier to just look for a couple posts with town-tells, andd point them out knowing that you're town and that he's not even making shit up.

Sure, I mean I've caught inexperienced scum with things I'd never catch experienced or better players with, but it hasn't kept me from trying. The answer to one question also wouldn't give me a definitive read, and I would keep all those things in mind, but the answer seems to be giving you a read on him, so it was helpful in that regard. You might be right; maybe that is an odd town read for scum to give.

I think I'm going to go to sleep though and worry about this tomorrow.

[gossamer wings]

I only briefly looked at that one newbie game and he was town. The impression I got from his entrance was clueless newbie who was a bit of a VI so I didn't take him seriously all that much. But after Titus mentioned his meta, I looked at that game to see if that was consistent with my impression. I didn't look through all his meta to see what his scum game looked like, just noticed that my original thought was wrong. Then, I've noticed him onsite both yesterday and today while ignoring this game, which is concerning.

I mean he could be someone who is rather new and realized he did something silly and doesn't want to come back, but I don't have a way of figuring that one out.

He very obviously didn't get any actual info from anyone (apparently already knew stuff ABOUT my character rather than just his name).
I think the only plausible scum motivation is that he hoped acting like a dipshit would get him some townreads.

That's just hard for me to swallow

-b

And the (misplaced) belief that we could break the game with flavor seemed earnest.

Maybe you're right. Maybe he did just kinda get scared off or something. I mean I could see an argument for him being newbscum who didn't know how to enter the game, but I dunno. I need sleep.

[gossamer wings]

Nati probs just input the wrong name for the replacement pm as Anatole as a replacement. It should have been obvious that baboon wasn't a magician or yesterday would have been a different conversation.

[gossamer wings]

Csareo is most likely town from this yhough

[gossamer wings]

Nati probs just input the wrong name for the replacement pm as Anatole as a replacement. It should have been obvious that baboon wasn't a magician or yesterday would have been a different conversation.

Can somebody please unpack how the fuck this makes anyone any alignment for me?

-b

I don't think it does. I do think the way csareo went about it looks town though.

[gossamer wings]

Nati probs just input the wrong name for the replacement pm as Anatole as a replacement. It should have been obvious that baboon wasn't a magician or yesterday would have been a different conversation.

This doesn't explain why csareo would have mine and babs names mixed up. The replacing should have nothing to do with it because csar would have gotten this PM at the start of the game before any replacing happened and at that point babs would also be getting a PM that said neighbor and nothing about a magician, theoretically.

csareo was a replacement as well. You're a replacement. My guess is that when he went to change the pm to send to csareo when he replaced in, he inadvertently changed siyawuwhatever to baboon instead of your name.

[gossamer wings]

IHNC, F-16 and I have both pointed out good reasons to suspect Honey. Take a look at those.

dont trust f-16 hes another scum read so his case is moot

you can point it out all you like but im not budging

This is dangerous. Your read on us is wrong. You might not like it but we're town, so discounting what we think because your read is wrong on us is going to lead you down incorrect paths here if you're town.

*also I meant she sorry.

[gossamer wings]

I don't see why nati would have to scrap the game. She'd just confirm with csareo and then he'd tell us and we'd choose whether or not to believe him.

Nothing alignment revealing has been in the situation.

[gossamer wings]

Actually, I don't want to get into it before Anatole claims, but the magician claim seems EXTREMELY suspicious for other reasons, in my role PM.

If you thought the magician claim seemed suspicious anyway, why didn't you seem suspicious of baboon upon replacing in?

[gossamer wings]

I highly doubt any of us are wizards... so I have no clue about your point...

Why did you like Anatole's claim if you doubted the presence of a wizard?

[gossamer wings]

Sanity is a scum tell for Titus by the by. >_>

Truth I love you Titus <33

~M

Tammeh speaks the truth.

And omfg I watched the oUAT finale. <.<

~M

It was so sad and so good!

[gossamer wings]

Right, AK situation. To me, his situation didn't seem dire enough to warrant pulling the "Give me one more day" tactic as scum at the point where he did (one more day of life isn't particularly useful to scum). Also, the last game I played with items, when one was given out, it could be used the same night (Hiphop mafia, I was a drug dealer). OTOH Wizard seems like a really poor flavor fit for this game. I'm pretty willing to give the one night.

Baboon needs to give an explanation of the 'Here's all the ways FT is a better lynch than AK, vote AK' post ASAP. That one post is sufficiently horrible to kill the townread I had (FT, I know I've not really had the chance to justify that: broadly speaking, they seemed to react to everything in the early game, and everything that's apparently happened in the neighborhood, including the Lissa stuff, the way I would - seeing weird stuff as weird, trying to use things to ascertain alignment - basically when someone has similar instinctive reactions to everything, it makes it look like they're viewing from a similar position).

FT's interactions with IHNC are scummy, and he seems to be continuing his 'not trying to ascertain anyone else's mindset' behaviour vis-a-vis Tammy. Nashville would probably be my second choice. The moderately town behaviour early on seems a long way in the rear view mirror now.

IHNC definitely overreacting...

Which is scummy because?

Spoiler: Mafia Theory

But anyway, don't you think you should see if they do this as town before declaring it a scumtell?

It's a general-tell based on the logic of who would ask the question. Town know they're town, so they wouldn't question why someone town-reads them, they would know it's because they are town and the person town-reading them either "knows" that or has figured it out. Either way, the reasoning is genuine/correct.

This is 100% wrong. Town should be awake to the possibility of people buddying them/ trying to avoid getting on their wrong side. It's a protown behaviour.

Quoted Section: Cops on mafiascum.net function where a player targets another player. Cops aren't gee I know 4 random people's flavor. I have never seen a cop like that and I doubt anyone else has either. Yet, Csareo claimed his flavor cop was random. Unlikely.

Head out of ass please. He proved he had the ability w/r/t Cutty. The way he acted towards me sure as heck didn't feel like bluffing.[/quote]

Regarding baboon - it's a couple days to deadline, isn't your belief that you should start compromising at this point?

[gossamer wings]

to be fair, my actual role title is Magician Magnifique and wizard was just my own descriptor based on the flavor which makes me seem a little more powerful than your average illusionist since my discovery of a real spellbook

Right, but you hadn't outed that yet.

[gossamer wings]

If one of those three is town, last scum is Ree.

Nah, got another choice for third?

[gossamer wings]

Tammy/F-16, will you guys help me lynch Fonz or Honey? Those are my picks for a lynch Today.

I'm cautiously watching fonz and accepting that Bork doesn't want to do anything with him today. Honeybee probably isn't going to happen either but I wouldn't mind that one.

[gossamer wings]

pedit: how come we are both town?

waiiiiitttttt.....

TITUS ARE YOU IN THERE AGAIN?

Only one way to find out. Let me post and see if we are a scum read. Then we know for sure Titus is in there.

Ika - why do you basically say Titus calling you scum is a scum claim for her when this post suggests otherwise?

[gossamer wings]

@ FT, I thought you said Fonz was town. What changed now? I'm probably about 20 pages behind so if you already mentioned it, I'll get to it later.

~ F-16

[gossamer wings]

pedit: how come we are both town?

waiiiiitttttt.....

TITUS ARE YOU IN THERE AGAIN?

Only one way to find out. Let me post and see if we are a scum read. Then we know for sure Titus is in there.

Ika - why do you basically say Titus calling you scum is a scum claim for her when this post suggests otherwise?

Out of hydra due to work but I think that was like one of the few posts made by beast. He says work is keeping him busy.

And does that really look like I would have covo with myself?

I didn't read the in quote there, but sure why not? I didn't think beast had made any posts in this game though, so.

[gossamer wings]

Bee isn't going to happen

Fonz actually might.

I don't remember why I was town-reading him, but it does kinda feel like his posts in swagton?

I'd like to have Ika dead, but Ceph disagree's with me there

collectively, it seems like our top choices are AK, FT, and Csareo

I am not as inclined to really follow through with AK though and will only lynch him via deadline

Ree and Fonz would also be acceptable deadline lynches, Ree less so, though

We are not lynching Ree.

[gossamer wings]

My top choice earlier was csareo but it looks like I was wrong there. I need to finish actually reading the posts from today and catch up with falcon.

[gossamer wings]

because at this point, I kinda just want someone not a town-read, dead. this day has been dragged out for far to long, IMO

pedit: kay, who else would you mind lynching?

I know I'm not interested in lynching: baboon, cutty, Ree, (Lisa - due to neighborhood read...I keep forgetting she's playing, fonz? - due to Bork thing, csareo - due to way he claimed his role stuff today, Anatole - thinking about being fine with giving him a night, fourtrouble - we haven't settled our read there and falcon would hate to mislynch him)

People in parentheses are people I'm not interested in lynching for the most part but have reservations on.

I'm thinking on Nashville as That joke about sanity being a scum tell for Titus is based in truth. I remember in gundam seed updating syryana on what was going on that game, and he went wait Titus made an argument that made sense? She's scum then. That's not to put down Titus, but it think when she's town she crafts theories that often don't make any sense. So some of that fits here, but I think she's also able to capitalize on that when scum. I dunno. I've only seen her as town once in bowsers game, I think every other time we've played has been her as scum. I kinda feel like that csareo case and argument where she's completely missing that csareo proved his role is more likely for her as town.

Wouldn't cry if creativity ate it, but meh, had a town read there earlier. I am slightly amused that in the whole ANATOLE SOFTED HIS ROLE!!! That not one person has commented on the fact that ika soft claimed for literally no reason. But four troubles point on him is weak. It was pretty obvious why ika voted Nashville yesterday.

I'd be down for a honeybee vote and potentially 5-off, but again neighborhood averse there too.

I think I just excluded everyone from the lynch ^_^

[gossamer wings]

UNVOTE:

I have a terrible headache bbl

[gossamer wings]

THEN WILL YOU JUST LYNCH HONEY BEE WITH ME? BECAUSE EVERYONE JUST THINKS I'M THE MOST EVIL PERSON ON THE PLANET AND I'M NOT, BUT I WANT TO LYNCH THE BEE

VOTE: HONEY

PLEASE?

[gossamer wings]

THEN WILL YOU JUST LYNCH HONEY BEE WITH ME? BECAUSE EVERYONE JUST THINKS I'M THE MOST EVIL PERSON ON THE PLANET AND I'M NOT, BUT I WANT TO LYNCH THE BEE

VOTE: HONEY

PLEASE?

Nope. Don't think your evil. ika and I do agree here. Honey is also likely town.

FT is also town.

Ika just claimed I'm on the scum team, what are you talking about?

[gossamer wings]

How many votes are on FT right now?

~ F-16

[gossamer wings]

@Tammy - I'm not compromising because a) My first choice wagon was only one off the lead at the last votecount b) it's not like there are two other competing wagons I'm neglecting to choose between c) I've already made clear my second-favourite wagon is Nashville, and that I'm willing to move if there's no traction on FourTrouble and d) FourTrouble has been scummy and inconsistent recently.

I wasn't criticizing you not compromising, but you said that Baboon's vote on Anatole ruined your town read on them, but that seems to run counter to what Falcon was telling me that you had written in a MD thread concerning compromising near deadline. It seemed that Baboon was compromising onto Anatole even though their strong read was still FT. So, I was trying to figure out why you thought that was odd.

[gossamer wings]

VOTE: FourTrouble

This is L-2 I think, but we need a VC pretty bad

I thought you hated all the cases against him?

[gossamer wings]

Heheh

"Sleepy Skrew"

[gossamer wings]

That's such a big misrep. I don't think we've even said SK or neutral at all. Nah, I have caught you though. It was just so bad that you resigned in thread. Given the preemptive discredits here and my conftown status there (although I was the SK), I doubt you'd feel that threatened.

you wanna bet? i can link you to a post where you were basicly neutral hunting.

again:

LINK ME TO A GAME WHERE I RAGED OUT WHERE YOU CAUGHT ME. untill you do that your whole argument is moot

The only post I can remember this could even refer to is when Mala said wondered if I was third party because she said I didn't feel like town or scum.

That's not neutral hunting, that's her not knowing how to read my tone.

[gossamer wings]

back in a few hours. I'll start my front to back read then.

p-edit I remember you were townreading us early but I don't remember much from you after that. You scumread peng and tammy scumread nacho. I remember that!

Don't remind me! It taints such a good nacho reading record, too!

[gossamer wings]

*busted*

[gossamer wings]

Damn. I was hoping to know what to avoid.

[gossamer wings]

(hi bork)

don't mind me I'm just gazing.

[gossamer wings]

Damn. I was hoping to know what to avoid.

The backseat driving is a little unnerving in a spot where I'd prefer not to be unnerved right now.

-b

p-edit: indeed.

Not sure what you're referring to. I was hoping she'd spill what she learned though.

[gossamer wings]

Not sure what you're referring to. I was hoping she'd spill what she learned though.

I just feel like you're hovering over the thread atm and interjecting with stuff when it happens to be about you and no other time.

-b

I am! I'm waiting for Falcon to finish catching up in the game and address the questions I've left for him and playing video games at the moment.

[gossamer wings]

Though my town read of you is more solidified from watching the exchange, so that's nice.

[gossamer wings]

I am! I'm waiting for Falcon to finish catching up in the game and address the questions I've left for him and playing video games at the moment.

I enjoy video games as well and I'm gonna probably go play metroid prime 2 for the first time in like 10 years after I'm done posting here tonight

-b

I'm playing Zelda! There's no need to worry about me, just doing this thing and watching how things go to help solidify my reads and waiting to see what Falcon thinks about a few things.

[gossamer wings]

(What's scummy is she did nothing but comment on Fonz's post concerning FT from 200 posts ago who was the biggest wagon, but left her vote on Anatole. By her logic, that's rather scummy of her!)

[gossamer wings]

my scum meta and town meta are pretty much similar. It's not a good indicator for me.

Fourtrouble, wanna explain why your scum reading fonz again?

pee-edit: wow beaten.

Honey, what are your thoughts on Fonz?

Nothing in his recent iso sticks out as scummy. His point about you in 1505 is valid, and I want to hear why you changed your read about him.

She hasn't posted in a couple days and these are her only real posts today. She looks like she's poised to move her vote onto FourTrouble, though her vote has remained on Anatole. Earlier she made some remark about how scum tend to be sticky with their votes while pushing other people. She's voting Anatole, isn't really pushing him, and is looking to find a reason to change her vote here to four trouble.

Reads scummy to me.

[gossamer wings]

I believe we are both in not want to lynch him mode; I believe we both lean cautious town, but I'm waiting for Falcon to catch up and address the things I left for him.

[gossamer wings]

Yeah, I agree that post puts a dent in my turn around on my read on him because of how certain he felt with Anatole.

I know he has the capabilit for game analysis from that game Titus was in, so him still not doing anything is concerning.

I'm building a house right now though, so I will get back to this in a bit. :p

[gossamer wings]

Um. Yeah.

[gossamer wings]

Oh yes, ffery, regarding 5-off, falcon said he gambits and fake claims a lot as town as well as has a well-developed scum game. From that description, it's not something I would negate for potential scum behavior, ala cabd gambit.

[gossamer wings]

Also I'm going to throw out three Mala things that struck me as odd for various reasons:
a) She described her attempted reachout to bork as subtle, which seems counterproductive to me.
b) She said she was biting her tongue about something (idr what it was). I asked for her to go ahead and say it and the response was lackluster (idr what it was).
3. She said she was okay with being lynched, then tries to defend her slot and acts as though she never said she was okay with being lynched.

Also, I don't think Titus ever gave a proper explanation for those dumb military crumb things.

A) as it clearly went over your head I'm not explaining it as of yet , but if/when I'm about to be lynched I'll disclose that it meant. It was a very small thing, but you didn't catch it so it's not wort it at the moment.

B) I was at work and I'm pretty sure I bit my tongue because I wanted to call your slot a liar, but didnt want to fight with my stronger town read.

C) Titus had a theory. I was looking at the pros and cons of this said theory. I was entertaining the fact of letting it go through as long as I had time to give my thoughts on players. Explain the stances I had and all the cards under my belt to reveal.

Part of me agrees that we should be lynched because we are a liability, but the other part of me wants to stay in the game. /:

~M

Please stop. Mala you know that sometimes the flavor of day one doesn't mean you're a liability all game. I mean I get it, yur feeling frustrated, but don't give up. Please help us find who would be the best day one lynch.

[gossamer wings]

He's one person. Look at this player list. You know this player list is not going to jump because ika says so.

(I completely understand your point, but recently I've been trying to realize just because one person thinks I'm scum when I'm not, that doesn't mean the entire game will bow down to that.)

[gossamer wings]

It's day one, noise tends to settle day two, not sure what being a martyr would help. I probably understand more than anyone about being a cause for noise complaints, just stop trying to work with ika if he's not willing. Find those you can work with and do that.

Bork probably does have a pint about you not really trying to work with him though, just ignore ika.

[gossamer wings]

What thoughts got ignored?

(I'm building houses in skyrim so have been half paying attention, but point me there?)

Pedit to mala

[gossamer wings]

Reads:

Town:

Gossamer Wings: Tammy feels like town-Tammy. I had doubts for a little while, but after interacting her that doubt is gone. Her waffling on certain reads comes from what I feel is a town-mindset. I also feel her frustration in regards to interacting with Titus feels genuine because there was a game that interacting with Titus made me go a bit crazy because Titus was being stubborn and was barely explaining/listening. (Yes, xmen.) Also Falcon doesn't feel like scum-Falcon that I personally played side by side in Wicked. He was a lot more postuery there with his reads and I'm not getting those same types of feeling.

Cutty Shark: Bork feels more like X-Men Bork and Tales-Bork than Scum-Bork in Mara's old completed game. There's been some niggles that I have gotten recently, but I'm trying to stay away from that paranoia. I don't have any experience with SK. There's also one other thing that I have for townreading them, but I will only reveal this if I am about to be lynched. Please do not fish me in regards to this.

Bamboon Pride: This feels a lot more like town-Mara. I have very little experience with Cephrir other than Marvel and Knight so I have not seen a scum game of his. The only problem that I have with Mara is that I feel like her explaining of the read on me was a little bit biased since I have outted. It felt a bit forced and she has barely interacted with me since. So I'm wary of the fact she might be trying to get on my good side so to speak. Also I want her to give her thoughts on the Ika thing.

Leaning Town:

Honey Bee: The whole asking me if I played with her before and her reaction after me outting felt genuine. In a way I feel she was trying to genuinely scum hunt me and get some sort of read on the ~mystery~ hydra. More gut than anything, but I like it.

Csearo: The reason why I was townreading him in the beginning was how he outted the information that he had. (I'm not entirely sure which alignment role because if I'm right about the type of role it reminds me of GiF/Fery's role in FakeGod's Upick. Where you had the names of all the flavor characters in the game so it's some type of variant of that role in a way.) It felt town to me especially how he interacted with The Fronz about his flavor. Also Csearo's role was confirmed by Nati, but not the alignment.

AK: I was originally reading him as scum. There was things that was pinging my gut about his posts, but he was partially mod confirmed by Nati due to Csearo's role, but again not his alignment.
Also AK one question for you: Do you need a

certain

item or any item?

Null:

Fferyllt: Mr Ree's posting did not give me much to go on and I'm not exactly sure what to make of Fery right now. Hopefully this will change down the line by interacting with her, but I'm good with keeping her at null because I haven't really had a vibe that swung this to go either way.

Lissa: There was a few things that I liked about her posts. I was originally content in giving her a leaning-town read, but that was mainly due to sheeping Mara-hydra, but I think I just like her in the null area for now until something jumps at me.

FourTrouble: Not really sure. There's been some posts that felt town to me. His reaction to the whole intern reaction to BP saying she caught scum felt genuine. Also the 1v1 comment also felt town, but I want to see what he said thinks about Ika's taunting Titus into 1v1 him into our slot. Although he looks like he hasn't said a word, but there's then been things that have bothered me. Hard to explain that because it's mostly gut.

Leaning/Scum:

IHNC: I was originally leaning town on the slot because I believe I picked up some meta tells on him from the

few

games I have played with him. Early game really felt like town-Ika, but I didn't like the disappearing thing because I know part of that is his scum meta. (that's before Titus told me she just solidified it.) My read is a little bit tainted because of his behavior at the moment, but I want him to respond to my reach out personally.

The Fronz: It's really gut in regards to how he reacted to Csearo. It's very hard to explain, but his reaction felt off.

5-Off: Also very hard to explain the gut read. I didn't really 'notice' his posts because he didn't have an avatar until after I pressured him into getting one. Once he did that and his behavior when he did it. (You missed it, but he changed his avatar to ours for a little while and I thought it was a minor-town tell.)

~M

That's where I stand really in terms of reads.

We have the same town reads!

I'm feeling iffy on honeybee though, with the exception of the lynch me thing she did earlier today. Csareo bothers my gut though he really did seem earnest in thinking Anatole was lying.

I don't feel great about Anatole, though I'm inclined to give him a day.

Ffery's town.

Lisa's probs town.

Falcon and I are still working on the fourtrouble read, but I believe we lean more town than not.

Creativity is probs town.

I don't feel great about fonz and 5-off is up in the air

[gossamer wings]

Who is sk?

[gossamer wings]

Oh sleepykrew I did not forget you <3

[gossamer wings]

I'll be watching for what stances she takes tomorrow (Day 2) as she'll be caught up by then presumably.

and how do you know she wont be nk? whats to stop that from happening? it sounds a lot like you know she wont die

This is pretty much one of the weakest arguments people are in games.

[gossamer wings]

I'll be watching for what stances she takes tomorrow (Day 2) as she'll be caught up by then presumably.

and how do you know she wont be nk? whats to stop that from happening? it sounds a lot like you know she wont die

This is pretty much one of the weakest arguments people are in games.

and i have refuted the case titus presented and brought my own not only on titus, but also mala and the slot itself

titus hasnt even read the damn thread obviously

That literally has nothing to do with what I said.

I know you have Nash hate, but any other thoughts? Or has nothing changed?

[gossamer wings]

Okay.

[gossamer wings]

Oh sleepykrew I did not forget you <3

[gossamer wings]

I mean I want to lynch honeybee or csareo

[gossamer wings]

I was only looking at main player list not abbreviations of individual players within that list.

Does no one want to lynch honeyed csareo with me?

[gossamer wings]

Sleepy you know your my favorite!

Pedit: I'm confused : (

[gossamer wings]

otherwise truth be told im going to vote park nash and prod dodges.

Please do this. Then I can actually catch up before deadline.
~ F-16

[gossamer wings]

I can't decide which was the mafia nk and which was the vig-kill. Leaning towards FT being nk'd as he tends to be a wildcard.

~ F-16

[gossamer wings]

Can someone from the neighborhood post what FT's last thoughts were before he was killed?

~ F-16

[gossamer wings]

I guess it is possible. But I doubt scum would want to kill someone that was spamming the thread and creating so much noise and going after Nashville who are town even if he did have a PR. FT in general tends to be rather unpredictable. His reads swing wildly and often are accurate but not something he explains or something that is trackable. I've seen him be killed N1 on two separate occasions on mafiascum and he's only played a handful of games. It is also possible his reads were good which is why I want them.

~ F-16

[gossamer wings]

VOTE: Gosser

I'd claim now if I were you.

This isn't a titus-vote either

~M

Um no.

[gossamer wings]

We did get a strange message last night though.

[gossamer wings]

Not a message. Something happened to us, but I don't know what. I thought at first it meant we were almost killed but with two deaths then that doesn't mean that.

[gossamer wings]

@ Malakittens, we're town and we think you are town. We just led a lynch against a scum player D1. Whatever you think you have on us, it is not because we're scum so I advise you to drop it for now.

~ F-16

[gossamer wings]

No, I know we're town and if you did investigate us you'd know we're town. If you knew our role, you'd also know we're town.

So, this is some bravado attempt or a role fish, no thanks.

[gossamer wings]

Okay.

We were trying to figure out what to do with the mafia win con as it looks like this game could be multifactional. If it is then FT wasn't killed by a vig, but could have been killed in a crossfire attempt. I'm not sure what to make of some of my reads if this is the case.

[gossamer wings]

I am debating on whether it is a good idea for the vig to claim so we have a better understanding of the game and don't wind up clearing people based on interactions with Honeybee.

~ F-16

[gossamer wings]

Fonz - When you meta'd HoneyBee, which games did you read of hers?

[gossamer wings]

Also I was hoping we'd be targeted last night and we weren't to any degree I can detect

-b

We were.

[gossamer wings]

We were.

Anything worth sharing?

-b

I'm guessing we were beaten up last night or something? We have bruises, a headache, and are covered in dirt.

When Mala voted us, I thought for a second that we were like amnesiac mafia or something, but that doesn't make sense with our role.

[gossamer wings]

Not very well. We played in two games. I replaced out of one due to rl, but i think she replaced out before that and she replaced out of another after that one.

I was sadly scum in both ._.

~M

One of my niggles about you guys is how Honey Bee had any idea it was you (or even thought to approach via that angle) based on anything you posted prior to 308 which is where she said that.

The only reason I knew it was you is because of how quickly you towned me off meta + the '~m' signs

-b

What do you think of the way they opened today with the vote on us? I felt it was even more town as I doubt Malakittens would be crafty enough as scum to do that.

~ F-16