Mini 1610 - House M.D. Mafia! (Day 5!)

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Vote: Beck

Might be contagious.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Yeah, not. For. The claiming

Massclaiming is a terrible idea.

Agreed. Frankly I think if I were scum and knew who the healers were I'd just gun them down regardless of anything else, there are more town players than scum, so town is more likely to suffer from disease than scum. So, play the odds and try to score double kills by gaming the game mechanic as it were.

Somebody run some tests or something, just guessing ain't gonna solve my illnesses. Run a tox-screen, test my blood, do an ekg or something.

Can you already feel the icy tendrils of death clutching at your chest?

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Do you think Venmar would include gender specific diseases?

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Do you think Venmar would include gender specific diseases?

Could be, my character is a guy if you think that matters

Why? you thinking he's menopausal? and is that a disease?

No, but something like preeclampsia could have fit and we can rule it out now.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Unvote

Vote: Anatole Kuragin

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Blarg, I'm so out of the mafia habit; I'll catch up shortly.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Does it bother no one else that Anatole is being ABR's puppet?

Nope, not bothered by that.

Unvote

Vote: Anatole Kuragin

Any reason for this vote? Pretty sure we were out of RVS by then.

I don't have a problem with him being ABR's puppet; I do take issue with him being ABR's puppet based on previous games and not anything to do with this game as far as I can tell. At the time it was probably just a protest against his particular brand of all-voting, no-talking uselessness.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

At this point Beck and ABR both seem town to me. They're contributing and keeping discussion up. (Side note - as for my activity, I will generally only be posting from 7:00 PM - 3:00 AM EST, so don't expect to see much from me outside of that).

ABR randomly harassing people without content is not "keeping discussion up". It's certainly activity but I think you'd be hard pressed to make the case that it's of any particular use beyond "activity is good".

Also, hypocrisy isn't a scumtell

. It's something I used to use to try and mislynch townies, and my god are townies hypocritical.

This is my line.

~~

Unvote

Vote: Kthxbye

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

ABR randomly harassing people without content is not "keeping discussion up". It's certainly activity but I think you'd be hard pressed to make the case that it's of any particular use beyond "activity is good"

I'm not necessarily saying it provided a lot of content (either his posts or the responses), but he has done more than a lot of other people in this game (myself included).

Unvote
Vote: Kthxbye

Why?

There's a difference between doing something and doing something productive.

Because the game needs to have some momentum with a week towards deadline and there was none with my vote just sitting on Anatole. Why kthx is A) because I'm not joining a wagon with the intrepid duo of ABR/Anatole and B) because of his reaction to his wagon. That reaction is reasonable to a degree when you've got a wagon nearing critical mass with a high likelihood of a lynch occurring but kthx's wagon was undersized and pretty quick out of RVS, there was no need to stress in the way he did as town.

Unvote, vote DDD

I find his last post very scummy. There are similar qualities to it as DLA-scum in BrBa.

Translation: I find his last post annoying because he can see the difference between the illusion I'm trying to project and reality.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

I think that your posts are fine-tuned to strike a balance that you think would gain town favor while keeping you on the offensive.

I wouldn't say they're fine-tuned but yeah and...? Turns out to win the game you usually need the rest of the town to help you out and that it's better to be on the offensive than the defensive. Cutting edge stuff, Albert.

because of his reaction to his wagon.

Please quote which post(s) reveal the reaction that you feel isn't town and how the reaction is a scum reaction. Also, please reference other closed games where you see scum react in way you describe.

You know what the singular most pointless thing someone can do in mafia probably is? Try and convince someone they're scum. I'm not going to waste my time, if you're so distraught over my vote give me a reason to move it but this post was a pretty big anchor holding it in place.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

My p296. <----scumhunting.

Your p294. <----do my scum hunting for me. ("give me a reason to move it")

Sorry kthx, I'm not just going to hand you the cheat sheet of what I'm looking for but sufficed to say I've already told you kvetching about votes on you is a big reason why you're being voted in the first place.

another thing re: DDD.. why in post 291 do you start off fosing albert, but then.. bam, join the kthx wagon.

if you are offensive/aggressive as town (or think that to be the better way to be as town).. why not push the albert wagon yourself?

i am not wrong in thinking that you have him and anatole as sus, right? (given that you said that you don't want to be on a wagon that they are on)

DDD

- Do you think ABR is scum, or just not doing anything to help town/forward the game right now?

If I thought ABR was more likely to be scum I would be voting for him; but I'm poking the bear because it's fun and hopefully informative.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

BZZZZZZ, wrong answer.

VOTE: DDD

Yeah, yeah, oh my god I suck, I get it. Grab that ABR provided lifeline.

Do you think your posting is scumm, DDD?

No, I mean I agree with ABR that my posting is calculated but that's because who I am and it's what I do.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

my vote is already in the right place.

Why?

Mostly his posting comes across as trying to hard to look like scum hunting.
He admits himself it's calculated - it doesn't look to me like genuine scum hunting - just calculated to look like that.

So you'll take me at my word that my posting is generally calculated but ignore the part where I say it's just a personality tell. That seems... convenient.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Was playing Magic literally all day, will try to catch up tomorrow when not watching football.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

I don't see the case on DDD.

That's because there isn't one; there's a personality clash between me and ABR (he thinks I'm an asshole, I think he's an asshole; we're both right) and everyone else on the wagon is taking the easy way out because as Bert aptly said, I'm hard to love or they're kthxbye and it's pure "lynch someone who isn't me" bullshit.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Maybe it would be appropriate for you to claim your role and abilities.

Maybe it would be appropriate for you to get stuffed.

"lynch someone who isn't me"

pretty much, yeah. That and your ridiculous "reasons" for voting me in the first place.

My reasons for voting for you actually exist as opposed to your crass "don't kill me"/OMGUS so glass houses but we both know that; everyone else is just willing to overlook it.

I don't see the case on DDD.

That's because there isn't one; there's a personality clash between me and ABR (he thinks I'm an asshole, I think he's an asshole; we're both right) and everyone else on the wagon is taking the easy way out because as Bert aptly said, I'm hard to love or they're kthxbye and it's pure "lynch someone who isn't me" bullshit.

I've been waiting to see anything from you that would convince me you are town, I have yet to see it. Your lack of cares and effort really don't make me want to keep you around. I'm not declaring intent, but if I get annoyed enough I'll hammer so step up your game or die

Oh come off it Beck, somehow my "lack of effort" is an egregious sin but your sitting here and doing nothing the last several days has been incredibly town beneficial? That somehow my play has been less involved than MC Maraca, Wolfy, Rogue, Anatole, or Jingle? Or that ABR's "sit back and call Danny scum and do nothing else" or kthx's "Whine about votes on me/OMGUS person voting me most likely to get lynched" are somehow town aligned plays? Bullshit I'm the scummiest of all the players I just listed and you don't get to sit there and pretend to be the voice of reason because ABR didn't pick your name from a hat. You want to lynch me, lynch me but fucking own the mistake, don't pretend like I'm egregious sinner in a land of saints.

So

part

of me wants to wagon Wolfy because I feel he's playing a lot differently from the Micro AND the newbie we finished where he was both town. Like his play is a lot different, but by a glance at his post history he isn't active so that makes me sad.

I'm conflicted.

I am playing differently - mostly because I have less time but also partly to do with my previous town play being read as scummy by

some people

. [cough]
Time should be coming back later this week.

I've not seen enough from DDD to back off my vote and unless there's a solid believable claim I can't see it happening.

I would love to lynch you, scum.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

The only thing that would make me unvote you right now DDD is an honest claim. I don't see why you would refuse to do it if you were reasonable town.

See I fundamentally disagree with you there; too often claiming is just a permission slip to lynch. [1] [2] If I believed a claim would help my situation I would give one, in this case I believe claiming my role in response to your request would just lead to some lurkey-loo swooping in to hammer.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

DDD: Thoughts/read on Anatole?

I like that he's finally starting to contribute instead of just being ABR's puppet; he even did that without urging.

DDD did you use any abilities to save Beck?

No.

Vote: DDD

Quelle surprise; make a rational post, no response other than a vote.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

1. The difference between you and I is that I was productive early on, sure my production the last couple of days weren't that great but there is a reason for that. Your production so far the entire game leaves something to be desired plus some of your reactions don't feel town to me

2. nice deflection...

I have been kind of waiting for some more of these people to talk and post more so I can analyze them

. jingle is already one of my scum suspects and the rest are kinda meh, but just because I am focused on you atm, doesn't mean that i don't have them in my suspect pool.

3. If I decide to vote to lynch you and I am wrong, I will own my mistake but if you are town will you do the same? Will you be a man post game and admit your play was horrible and that you probably deserved to be lynched? Don't expect others to own up to things if you aren't willing to do the same.

I mean I agree that you were productive early on and that's why I've given you space and an early town read but you're not an idiot so couldn't we agree that'd be a great scum tactic, be busy early to establish a good reputation and then coast on that? And I'm not an idiot and let's be honest it'd be a bad scum tactic to coast early and then immediately pop up and tweak other player's in the nose? That's me getting involved in my slightly obnoxious manner.

And the bolded section is perfectly reasonable but why do you get a pass for that and I don't? Because you contributed earlier? But that earlier contribution while useful hasn't put us on some clear and great path, the game is wandering and the biggest wagon is on a town player. So no, I don't feel like you should be content to just sit back like you've broken the game open, come play because we don't have time for a wait and see attitude any more.

Post game? I'll say it now, I haven't been thrilled with my play, I haven't played mafia for like two months before this game and I haven't done anything other than IC a newbie game for at least half a year and my game is rusty. But you see me fighting to stay in this thing, I'm getting back in the swing, I'm trying to get things going again and then compare that to like the six other players that you claim to be waiting on to do or say anything worthwhile.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

No, you got caught, called out, and now are

flailing like I'd expect scum to flail

.

Relevant? And the last time I said and linked that it was.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

@shaddowez: How do you go from being uncomfortable of my RVS wagon building quickly to your p110? It looks like your reason for voting me is lurker hunting. Are there any other 'lurkers' that peek your interest? If no, why not?

kthx

- I just found this while doing your ISO - sorry I hadn't responded to it yet. I'm keeping an eye on Wolfy because nothing he's said has impressed me yet, but nothing that screams out scum either.

You don't think Wolfy's utter lack of interest in playing mafia is scummy?

Also, would someone respond to my case? I get all grumpy when people ignore me.

It's not compelling and I say that as someone who thinks kthx is scum and should be lynched.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

@Kthxbye: Doctor Jessica Adams, VT.

I must have stopped watching house before as I don't even remember that character in the show....

She only appears in Season 7.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Sorry, 8th season.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Let's take a look at the Bert wagon... it has kthx on it. Well that's a bad wagon then especially with ABR doing his "no really I have reasons they're just vague and include no specific references" thing that he pulled on me. I'm tempted to just bring the day to an end given how close we are to deadline but I'll just declare an intent to hammer Mantis and be back in an hour or two to see if anything has changed.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Ugh I don't like people on either wagon. Let's speed lynch kthx

I'm game.

We need an accurate vc before deadline.

mod vote count please.

So much this, players should not have to be providing their own VCs.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

OK, dont kill mantis.

There's no way foreman would be scum

and there's no way someone else wouldn't have that role to counter-claim.

You know something the rest of us don't?

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

I mean I guess the flavor may not have anything to do with alignment

Either that, the source material is open enough to interpretation that town can't just break the game with a mass claim or scum have safe claims, no self-respecting mod designs a game otherwise.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

I mean I guess the flavor may not have anything to do with alignment

Either that, the source material is open enough to interpretation that town can't just break the game with a mass claim or scum have safe claims, no self-respecting mod designs a game otherwise.

So as the resident house fan you're approving of the lynch?

Flavor of the claim means nothing to me right now; maybe with more information outguessing the mod on flavor will be possible but for now that part means nothing. I'm trying to decide if the PR part of the claim moves me at all, I'll think about it on my drive home.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

VOTE: Mantis

I still think Bert is town and kthx is scum so I can't abide the other lynch; from what I'm seeing in the game and my understanding of the mechanic of the game scum will almost certainly have power and I hope Mantis is part of it.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

lazy thinking. don't you want to know anything first? Or do you already know everything you need to know?
do you think the diseases are here just for flavour or does who gets them and what they get have any significance?
Surely having a better understanding of what I've got and how I might have got it would be useful to somebody who is interested in scum hunting...

VOTE: Wolfy

Wagon me up bitches.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: kthx

Better to let the disease ravage Wolfy and to die that way rather than using our lynch there.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

unvote

consider my vote still on DDD tentatively but this wagon grew to L-1 super fast and the hairs on the back of my neck are sticking up

You think Beck? Your presence gives cover to all the lurkey-loos and clowns and ABR and his three second attention span.

Wolfy comes back with reasonable questions,

There was absolutely nothing reasonable about Wolfy's questions; somehow the best thing that can be said about them is that they're irrelevant but it's an awful post from a player who did nothing yesterday. And I'm not going to suddenly town read one of my top two scum reads just because one of them made mean sounds about the other, especially after scum have had a night to plan.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Your presence gives cover to all the lurkey-loos and clowns and ABR and his three second attention span.

why does my presence do that?

I feel like this is an attempt to insult me

In fact it's the complete opposite, every else can just hide behind the rational player who is being town read by basically everyone. Well, ABR isn't interested in hiding but the other three? If I did theoretically get lynched you know tomorrow when they were interrogated about being on a town wagon you know they'd be all *shrug* Beck thought it was a good wagon and/or DDD thought I'm scum so he must be scum.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

You were run up yesterday and you are run up today again, can you please claim?

And I already explained why I consider a claim to be an action of last resort; the only argument I've seen about that is your suggestion that you can tell if a claim if truthful and frankly I've never noticed you to have a particular aptitude on the issue. In fact, Bert claimed truthfully and you still called for his lynch so you'll have to excuse me for thinking it's just another line to push for an unnecessary claim which you'll likely disregard and continue to push for my mislynch.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

If you claim, I will move on

if

I believe you. That's the deal.

See the part where I claim truthfully and still possibly end up with you on my ass makes that a bad deal. In fact, it just underscores my prior point that it'll be the thing I do when I don't see anything else I can do; for now I see plenty of space to operate so I'm going to use it.

Furthermore, why not apply your logic to everyone? If everyone would just claim then you could evaluate everyone's claims and only go after those you think are scum.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

I think that you're stonewalling the progress of the game. The result of this yesterday was that we bandwagonned Bert and lynched mantis in a rush. It's better to remove you from the game at this point.

And I think you're stonewalling the progress of the game by pushing down a dead end and insisting on a claim that you know I'm being stubborn about.

Right now, you and Beck are about equally scummy to me. If you claim, you're giving me room to evaluate my options. If you decide to just be stubborn, with two people who say "consider my vote on DDD" and you at L-2, it's unwise for you to hold your claim if town.

It's not unwise if I think I can move them off that stance because I'm town and I'm pretty confident I can convince them of the truth of things, which I am and think I can.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

And I think you're stonewalling the progress of the game by pushing down a dead end and insisting on a claim that you know I'm being stubborn about.

I let you off yesterday, today you make concessions or die.

No, today I laugh at your impotence and focus on working with players who are rational actors in the game.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

So I did nothing yesterday and that makes me one of your top two scum reads.

Yup.

Your logic for not claiming is flawed if you are town.

That's an assertion, not an argument and an incorrect one at that.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

A) I'm not trying to get you lynched right now, I have no compelling reason to make a strong case.

B) I already made my argument, you and ABR have asserted I'm wrong with absolutely no argumentation to support that stance beyond ABR's "I'll know if you're telling the truth" which is demonstrably not reliable.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

We assert that you will reliably get lynched without a claim

And if I agreed with that assertion I would claim; spoiler alert: I don't.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

You implied that if he were a vig the Bert kill would be the same, and thus that he wasn't responsible for it. It's a weak argument, but I can at least follow the logic.

Yeah, that "logic" is a tortured stretch at best.

Why isn't DDD dead yet?

Also, can we all at least agree that Wolfy should die of disease?

Because I'm not scum and really the only people who were voting for me were scummy self-preservationists like you and Wolfy or ABR yelling incoherently. There never was a reason for the wagon. But at least we agree on the Wolfy thing.

Btw Dr. Cutty doesn't do anything to help house,she doesn't even treat patients on the show and is always working against house.

Also kthx, for me to lynch another PR, I would have had to lynch 1 first...

In terms of flavor Cuddy did treat a few patients on the show and describing her as always working against House is inaccurate at best. That being said, flavor still doesn't mean anything to me. Kthx acting like scum prior to his claim does mean something to me.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

ABR's stance seems to be that we should only lynch VTs because the mod probably made the setup where town can win just by lynching claimed VTs and/or scum are too dumb to ever claim a PR. Come on now.

The fight over who is insulting who is pointless.

Add in the fact that he's on my wagon and suddenly super quiet while I'm at L-1.

So OMGUS yet again; also I was here on Friday, was gone for one day and somehow "OMG scum again because of it"

VCA also points to me being right.

So, if you all lynch me today, you now have all the work done for you to lynch scum back to back. You're all welcome.

VCA is junk science and I doubt that.

DDD has already claimed vt?

Nope.

Forgot about the vt claim.

Yeah, let's lynch the PR over VT...genius.

I'm not avoiding anything.

Nope, still didn't claim. ALSO READ THE BOLD, HE KNOWS I'M TOWN AND IS ACCEPTING THE CLAIM I DIDN'T MAKE AS FACTUALLY TRUE. The only way that makes sense is kthx scum.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Kthx, link me to a game where you were a PR and were lynched or almost lynched.

Also most recent town and scum games.

Thanks

Yeah, I'm not going to do your leg work for you.

More proof you aren't town.

As if 839 wasn't proof enough.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

@DDD: who else is scum? Cuz all it looks like to me is you riding Beck's coattails trying to save your scum face. Do you have scum reads? If so, how do they link to me if I were to flip scum?

That's not how I play the game; I don't analyze connections until I have reliable information to do so. Adding speculation to assumption is just an awful idea.

And riding Beck's coattails? I was voting for you yesterday, I was the last person still voting for you yesterday before it was a lynch or no lynch, I started the day voting for you while Beck was busy doing the same stupid thing he's doing now. It's my 851 that blows up your 839, not anything Beck has said.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Just an FYI last game I tried with all my might to lynch scum, everyone ignored me, it ended badly, I was right.

I feel this is the same situation here but because I don't want to end badly I conceded. Kthx will be lynched and flip scum eventually. Not sure how everyone else isn't seeing it

Just an FYI, not voting for kthx makes it all the less likely he will be lynched, not more. And you'll have to excuse me for being skeptical of somehow the town seeing my name come up green and suddenly they're interested in a kthx lynch, blinkered town players going to be blinkered.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Right but if people aren't willing to vote him, I'm wasting my vote

Come on Beck, I mean ignoring the fact that not voting for him meant you were voting with him which is massively distasteful, look at the game state and the players. You vote kthx and he's already at 4 votes; Wolfy has already voted kthx in the past, and both the hydras and Jingle don't appear to have any strong opinions on anything so when push comes to shove they'll have to make a decision. Kthx is the best option when presented with all the choices, you and I see that, but even the indecisive should certainly see how he's the best lynch option available when there's only one other option. I agree that it's a pain in the ass that the other players in the game insist on dragging their feet but eventually they have to make a decision and you want to make it so the best choice is an option for them.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

if people decide to vote him, I'll gladly move my vote back. I have done all I can do to try and convince people. let's see you put some effort into this game for once

As you may have noticed and I already said, Jingle and the hydras aren't around to be convinced. Furthermore, Wolfy is voting for me, so I tend to think he's not going to listen to me. So, me trying to do something? Me trying to convince someone? The person I need to move is you and that's what I'm trying to do because as I already said, if I move you, then discussion for everyone else narrows to Anatole or kthx and that should be an obvious choice to even the most blind. So stop pouting that no one will listen to you and enable what we both know is the best line of action for the town.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

DDD has been a lynch wagon for 2 days straight now and has magically been taken out of the lynch pool come deadline time. I ask myself why. Why would scum care who is lynched if the largest wagon is on town. He was also the hammer of a claimed PR (as Beck pointed out) over hammering Bert, who was a claimed vt and also at L-1.

It's not magic; it's the fact that I'm town and my singular best skill at mafia is my survivability. And I must be missing the relevance of "Why would scum care who is lynched" when clearly I did care yesterday with a town read on Bert; I was never going to hammer him.

~~

kthx is definitely town. DDD, what do you think about lynching Jingle or Anatole?

No interest in an Anatole lynch, Jingle would likely be acceptable but I don't see a big difference between a Jingle lynch or a Rogue lynch or even an ika/Skies lynch prior to reading a few posts down.

~~

Jingle pretty well explains my thought process that I had already displayed to some degree when lambasting ABR for his statements that imply we can just win the game by voting VTs, it simply doesn't make setup sense.

Furthermore, kthx's 954 is just bad even when it's not wrong based on setup spec; I'm scum because I had a day two wagon brought on me after being the biggest wagon on day one that still had that player alive? No, that means people aren't willing to let their previous biases go. The other two day one counterwagons were on town? Because there's never been three big town wagons in a game before. I mean it's all just bullshit VCA-type nonsense trying to make signal out of noise.

~~

um....

Then why would you hammer?

i never said you couldnt both be scums?
the very fact hes being anti-town as shit? (granted im anti-town myelf but theres a diffrence)
the fact the gamestate has stagnented and we are getting nowhere right now?

VOTE: ika

A) Decides to go with they've totally been bussing each other for about forever in the game as a credible theory.
B) Tosses out anti-town as an excuse for his theoretical future vote.
C) You want to alleged that I was going to take any free lynch on day one (which is bullshit, if I was scum I could've waited for Beck to hammer, I made what I thought was the right call, I was wrong, it happens), this is just blatantly taking the easy town lynch.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

A player who I respect like Beck asks me to claim, I'll claim. I'm not going to claim for Mr. Speedy Von Speed Lynch who is trying to rush things before other players can show up and evaluate what was just said because it looks fucking awful for him.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

You're not trying to figure things out, you're just trying to get town lynched.

*Bing bing bing* We have a winner.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

So was that not a hammer or is mod just Mia?

You should unvote just in case it's the latter.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Maybe DDD will flip scum.

And maybe the sky will turn pink this afternoon and it'll rain Frooty Pebbles.