Mini 1621: Frog Mafia (KERO)

[ProHawk]

VOTE: Garmr

Only ever seen scum vote for mods.

[ProHawk]

haha, quite so. But on an unrelated note, my frog actually looks pretty sweet.

[ProHawk]

Bird Killer.

[ProHawk]

VOTE: Primate

Sarcasm?

[ProHawk]

Primate is saying that you don't think it fair that you were caught as scum for the reasons given. Not that the reasons given were wrong.

That's not how I read it.

[ProHawk]

Boo, do you see anything wrong with Primate's echo?

[ProHawk]

Not convinced Primate is scum, or that Garmr is?

[ProHawk]

Hey guys, News Flash.

VOTE: ProHawk

You're full of shit

This is not RVS. Unless Flubber is just saying I am shit because he wants to be a dick.

Garmr is scum, guys, he's pissed off that I caught him for the wrong reason.

Yep.

Also not RVS from the mouth of the lad himself.

[ProHawk]

ProHawk as possible Victor buddy.

You're gonna have to spell this one out please.

[ProHawk]

I'm not voting Garmr because it's just a tell and I'm not going to go after someone just based on only one tell in only one post.

Why Not? What else do you have to go after?

[ProHawk]

Apparently people don't understand my cryptic posts, so allow me to state this in plain english:

I was never, nor have I ever made a serious post about random votes, or the random voting sequence/scene/start/whatever.

There I said it. Now who are these lovely folk who keep mis-repping me?

Ahh yes, worst offender:
2birds1stone

Then we have:
Victor and Bookitty

[ProHawk]

By a show of hands please,

VOTE: Garmr

Only ever seen scum vote for mods.

Who thinks that this post was for realz?

Feysal's posts (Two by the way, and only one is serious) are garbage and a cop-out from scum hunting I would like to state for the record. Before I delve more into this topic, I would specifically like Garmr to comment on the following...

"Garmr is good at staying alive. He has not only won but survived twice as scum, and has been endgamed several times. That gives me a town read on him. I can't think of a reason why he would have deliberately called attention to himself like this if he were scum."

Although this is a teaser...

("I did not like his initial vote, and in his ten posts he has said and done remarkably little.")

[ProHawk]

Flubber, I already explained this.

A) You said I was full of shit.

Therefore, I am either scum (because scum are full of shit) and you voted for me for that reason.

Or, I am just a "shit" player and you voted me randomly.

The first would be a serious vote. The second would be a random vote. You yourself stated that you were not saying I was a "shit" player.

So instead of speculating, how about you just tell me if your vote was serious or not.

[ProHawk]

Out of the scuffle between Garmr and the bird killer, I am pretty sure Garmr is town. Bird killer looks exponentially worse which kinda actually makes me not want to lynch him.

[ProHawk]

Not to burst your bubble or anything, but I actually had a hard time finding games you actually made it to the end of. Maybe you could toss a couple links out for me.

[ProHawk]

Good day, been travelling. Will write more tomorrow.

[ProHawk]

I had a quick look at his past games to see who I was dealing with. One observation stood out - Garmr is good at staying alive.

So here is the issue I had with this post. I too had a quick look at his past games, and the one observation that stood out to me was: Garmr is good at not being around at end game. The last six games he had been replaced.

Garmr came in and kinda explained things, which I guess I was just wrong about. BUT

Feysal said he didn't like my initial vote (which was a random vote)

And yet, in my one serious post I said more than you did in your ten.

In your "serious" post we find out that:

A) We are out of RVS and you hate it - Irrelevant
B) Garmr caught your attention, and players that catch your attention are too bold to be scum especially one so highly rated as Garmr. Therefore you feel Garmr is town.
C) You don't know about 2birds.
D) Your

random

real vote on me has turned real because you didn't like my random vote.

In all of my first ten posts, we learn that:

A) I have a cool looking frog - Not super relevant.
B) I think Primate is scum
C) People are trying to pin stuff on me that isn't factual.

I don't really see all that much of a difference but I digress.

[ProHawk]

How the fuck is my name on this list?

Did you not subscribe to that mentality? Your post in which you referred to it made me think you were on board with the consensus...

Why are you still voting Primate?

Because he hasn't done anything that makes me think he is town? His dissonance is his voting tipped me off and I am still reading him as scum. He votes Massive because random. Then sees something that strikes him as scummy, leaves his vote on Massive and states he won't change it because said scummy thing wasn't concrete enough.

[ProHawk]

Hi, I'm scum

Oh cool, easy street.

VOTE: GreyICE

After we are done torturing you, you can give up the others.

/endsarcasm.

Dumb gambit. Calling your bluff. You probably don't like playing scum do you?

[ProHawk]

Claiming a role and saying, Hi guys I am scum are two different things.

[ProHawk]

In your experience, do scum often enter the game by saying, Hi Guise I iz scum who my buddies pleez? Have you seen this be a viable strategy for scum?

I've been accused of taking things too seriously in this game (and in a couple of others, I'm sure). Are you often accused of this?

Let me explain myself better:

I have experience with GreyICE, and that experience says his arrogance levels is off the charts, to the point that he probably feels unlynchable (at least he did in the game I played with him). So yes, scum GreyICE would ABSOLUTELY come into a game by saying "Hi Guise I iz scum who my buddies pleez?"

As for it being viable? No, I actually don't.

I often do play with a more serious tone than a joking one, but have never been really accused of it?

[ProHawk]

You do know GreyICE had just replaced into the game when he posted that? As in, it was his first post of the game?

What does this have anything to do with it being his first post after replacing in or not alignment wise?

[ProHawk]

Where have I said GreyICE was town? Seriously, quote me up. I don't have a read on him yet, so I KNOW I didn't say that.

Well, your vote on me implys that I am scum, so the question is am I bussing? FMPOV it looks like you are trying to defend GreyICE by attacking me for attacking him for his "joke". Usually you only defend people whom you think are town, or am I missing something here?

[ProHawk]

@Prohawk: I get why you think GreyIce might make a post like that as scum, but I don't get why you think that makes him scum.

You ever play poker? He is bluffing. I am calling his bluff. He needs to die.

"Scum would NEVER do this, so I am going to do this as scum."

As an aside, you never commented on why I think you're scum, nor made any mention of my vote on you. Why is that?

[ProHawk]

I'm kind of disappointed, I thought you were going somewhere with this. I wanted to read your case so I could see if the thought process behind it made sense for town, but now I'm just puzzled. I have never lied about meta, my own or anyone else's, as town or scum, though I have been accused of it over different interpretations. Why did you think that Garmr's replacements would have been relevant?

I'm sorry I disappointed you...

I thought you made up the whole Garmr thing, that's why it was relevant cause I couldn't find any games he actually made it to the end of. Turns out I was wrong.

Also, Waffle lying about not knowing what "lol" means makes no sense, unless he is newb-scum?

P-EDIT: THAT IS AN ACTUAL FREAKING SCUM READ AND I WILL TAKE IT TO MY GRAVE.

[ProHawk]

Lynch all liars

OH THE IRONY!!

Makes no sense coming from someone who is town: ala lied about being scum.

Therefore must be scum.

[ProHawk]

It's going to be fun to

hang

kill you, child.

FTFY.

Guys, I am not so sure about Waffle being scum, its too low hanging, its too easy and votes sprang up real quick ---> Scum Help. His posts just plain don't make sense. At all. Reads are incoherent. No trajectory. I don't like ICE's vote.

Primate still doesn't have a vote out, and we have four days left. Playing things real low key.

Speaking of trolling...

Hi, I'm scum

Mod still hasn't told me who is in the QT, but this guy has sent me several subtle signals in the last few posts. I clearly need to bus him.

I have a theory guyz

Afk for chemotherapy

Hey GreyICE, whats your read on Jackal?

[ProHawk]

Yeah, I get why you might think he'd do it as scum, but I don't really get why most everything you said wouldn't also apply equally to him if he was making that joke as town. It's still ballsy, surely.

We are going to put his claim aside for a second. Town or scum? What's your take?

[ProHawk]

GreyICE, please tell me why Jackal is town.

Flubber, are you reading GreyICE as town... or ?

[ProHawk]

Have you already elaborated as to why, and I just missed it? Enlighten my mind. Blow me away.

[ProHawk]

On a re-read, Looking over Waffle:

He Voted ~ BooKitty, TwoBirds, Flubber

He was put at L-1 as of post #293, Bookitty and TwoBirds were both votes before he was a firm candidate for lynching. TwoBirds is likely town from that interaction.

I am still pretty sure there was some scum-help in lynching Waffle.

WaffleGhost (7): Total Wreck, VictorDeAngelo, massive, Feysal, GreyICE, 2birds1stone, Bookitty

The final vote-count - Highly doubt Victor and massive are scum. Still think TwoBirds is likely town due to earlier interactions. It's very likely that Genderberry placed an early bus-vote (#147), replaced out and by the time Total Wreck made it into the thread it was too late to abandon ship. Need to see more from them to get a read. GreyICE could still be scum.

Flubbernugget (2): Garmr, WaffleGhost
Garmr (1): Flubbernugget
GreyICE (1): ProHawk
Total Wreck (1): Jackel98

Not voting (1): Primate

Garmr is obv town. Flubber could likely have been a late bus vote from Waffle who knew he was going down and wanted to WIFOM the thread, but it's pretty much just that. Although I will say the argument between the two felt odd. The two people not voting for Waffle most likely to be scum are definitely Jackel and Primate from a VCA standpoint.

I may have a little conf-bias going here, but has everyone forgotten about

VOTE: Primate

??

[ProHawk]

What a crock of shit. Replacing in is completely justifiable reason to ditch an unwanted vote regardless of how far along the wagon is.

So why didn't you?

[ProHawk]

Prohawk sucks, but more on him later.

Can't Wait.

[ProHawk]

@Primate, it's not the lack of participation as much as the saying a lot, but doing very little. Have you even voted for anyone this game?

@ICE, you said that town was going to break your brain. You said that after quoting something from Jackal which is why I took that as you town-reading Jackal? Or were you calling some other posts town?

@Jackal, I would still love to hear why I suck.

@Victor, I would like to hear your thoughts on the speed of the Waffle wagon with regards to scum.

@Wreck, do you typically just pick someone to tunnel for the day, or are you just trying to get into a slap-fest because I said you could possibly be scum despite having voted for scum? Before that happens, I would legitimately like to know if you think Garmr is town and why.

[ProHawk]

I don't mind our ProHawk vote. It's a decent thing to investigate. ProHawk seems a little different than BoS ProHawk and InuYasha ProHawk.

Garmr and Grey should also be looked into.

~Titus

You aren't actually reading the thread. This much is obvious. But please go on. Elaborate a bit.

Also, call your other head in here to actually answer my question.

[ProHawk]

I could learn to like you.

Thats nice. Now in case you missed this...

@ICE, you said that town was going to break your brain. You said that after quoting something from Jackal which is why I took that as you town-reading Jackal? Or were you calling some other posts town?

[ProHawk]

Prod pickup, still Need to catchup. More later tonight.

[ProHawk]

So... lets see who gave me crap about calling GreyICE out on his terrible foray into the game:

BooKitty was first.
Primate... kinda.
And
Flubbernugget.

VOTE: Flubbernugget

Prohawk is a better lynch than Flubber.
VOTE: ProHawk

I think I waited all last game day for you to explain why I suck?

[ProHawk]

I don't even know what that is Flubber.

[ProHawk]

Total Wreck, since you have tunnel vision, can you talk to me about why you are town reading Flubber?

Flubber is voting me because, well his first choice is Garmr - Conf Town.
His second choice is Vic - Cop.

[ProHawk]

I hate this game.

[ProHawk]

I consider Flubber town?

So you think there are more than one scum left then?

[ProHawk]

You "caught" scum by flipping a coin over a wifom statement and it looks like a really weak bus.

This? I never said I "caught" scum. I said his "WIFOM" statement was BS and something that would absolutely come from scum-ICE.

[ProHawk]

If you were town you would have proven I'm a dumbass by now.

You prove that all on your own bud. No help needed from me.

[ProHawk]

We just got two scum lynches in the first two days. Why so unhappy?

Unhappy because I feel like my reads are being tossed aside. Like I wanted to lynch Primate from D1, not even a wink. And now everyone wants to lynch him, just when i'm not as convinced its him anymore. I need to do a re-read of Primate and Flubber, but won't have much time with thanksgiving and all.

[ProHawk]

Bring it wrecking ball. You've had it out for me since your toe first touched here.

[ProHawk]

I'm outta town, and was hoping to have more time

@MOD, I will be V/LA for 3 days. Sorry!

[ProHawk]

Back from V/LA. My last notes are that scum are in Flubber/Primate, will have some time to get that sorted later tonight.

[ProHawk]

So just reading through Primate and Flubber, I am really not sure why we aren't lynching Flubber over Primate...

with two mislynches to spare, we win if we lynch through prohawk/primate/

massive

flubber

FTFY - You said something about Flubber's interactions with Waffle making him conf-town? I don't see it at all.

So, I don't want to die tomorrow if this goes wrong, but I want to hammer. Any more objections?

^^pls lynch the shit out of this tomorrow

What happened to this?

[ProHawk]

I think I missed your #784 with the spoiler...

I can agree that waffle probably didn't put both scum in his scum-pile, I disagree that he was trying to save himself from being lynched as much as throwing wifom trails.

[ProHawk]

Would like to hear a bit from ArcAngel.

[ProHawk]

Angel, sorry you aren't feeling well!

VOTE: Primate

[ProHawk]

No words of wisdom for tomorrow?

[ProHawk]

Couldn't we just lynched scum tomorrow and not go into the "final" day?

GG -Scum slip.

[ProHawk]

VOTE: Prohawk

Terrible hammer!!!!!

lol, what exactly was terrible about it?

[ProHawk]

Please don't let Flubber live tomorrow.

[ProHawk]

If you want to see a scummy hammer Angel, it's that one. Freak, I knew it was Flubber.

[ProHawk]

Flubber is bored with the game and can't take it anymore?

[ProHawk]

I guess it could be Angel....

[ProHawk]

I'm an idiot, carry on.

[ProHawk]

Explain the hammer thing while you are catching up.

[ProHawk]

Still here. Curious to hear from Angel still.

[ProHawk]

So why do you want to lynch me Orci? I think I failed to see any trajectory there... You mentioned something about reading through GreyICE's posts, but it stopped about there.

[ProHawk]

Never been called toxic before...

Your reads are wrong Orci, that's why your PoE is failing you, sorry.

[ProHawk]

That's all well and good Orci, but if you lynch me tomorrow will likely be MYLO and I don't think lynching massive is the answer

[ProHawk]

The "why not" feeling doesn't matter because he is the last scum left

There are no scum mates to influence the wagon

So calm down, deep breaths, don't overthink it, lynch prohawk

Heck no. Orci is smarter than this.

No scum-mates to influence the wagon? Right...

Who needs scum-mates to influence anything when all town is on-board with a mislynch? Lets just glaze over this fact.

What happens tomorrow? "Guys I have this game solved, just lynch Massive FTW". Game over.

VOTE: Orcinus

[ProHawk]

You mean this vote?

Nevermind, looked it up myself: http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?tit ... ado_(Role)

Poop.

Unvote

Vote: Jackel98

Which later changes to

That's your reasoning? That the wagon on him has grown too quickly, and "there might be scum on it?"

Whose the scum, VGA? Who are the scum?

Defending Jackal's play based on the wagon is complete bullshit, and I'm calling you on it.

PEdit:

Unvote

Vote: VDA

With no real push in-between, but a riff with VDA which ends up in a push for VDA?

What does it look like to you?

[ProHawk]

There really isn't any reason to stall. If it takes me flipping town to look at my case, do so.

[ProHawk]

No, I am saying he was quick to abandon Jackel because they are partners. There wasn't even a push in that direction. His attack on VDA was way before the guilty came out.

[ProHawk]

Pretty heavy mis-rep there.

[ProHawk]

prohawk is prone to bussing. see tales of vesperia

Yes, bussing is a thing, but why not just bus the partner who was actually going to get lynched?

[ProHawk]

Angel, I realize you might not have been all there, but you should refer back to these posts.

Sorry. I have been down with Viral fever since Friday evening. Hopefully I look at this game today and understand what's going on.... If not I ll hammer primate. TQ

23 hours left will this end in a no lynch.

I hammered with about 14 hours left in the day. So if that's legitimately why you think I am scum, its factually incorrect. Why would that make me scum anyway? If Victor hammered (like he said he was going to) would that have made him scum?

[ProHawk]

Victor, no-lynching isn't the play here. Flipping me will help catch scum.

No lynch tomorrow.

[ProHawk]

Angel or massive, give me some heads up before you vote so I can get one last post in.

[ProHawk]

It will be the case post I am working on.

[ProHawk]

And to answer your question, I am pretty sure its still Orc.

[ProHawk]

So here is what we have left:

ProHawk
VictorDeAngelo
massive

orcinus_theoriginal
Flubbernugget
ArcAngel9

I am confident that Victor is town from play as well as from claim.
Never really got scum-vibes from massive.

That leaves Flubber, ArcAngel, and Orci.

The biggest thing that tipped me off on Orci is that he is wrong about me, and I am pretty sure he is wrong about massive as well. Which in an of itself isn't scummy in itself.

It's the fact that he is setting up his end-game and lining up lynches.

The biggest argument I recall having been mentioned is GreyICE having voted Jackal, which I already mentioned wasn't really a push to lynch and immediately jumped to Victor. I think its pretty obvious that GreyICE isn't a team player.

Flubber could be scum from his play which has been real laid back.

Angel just isn't making much sense and isn't really thinking through the game, from what I recall isn't necessarily alignment indicative but I guess she could be scum too.

[ProHawk]

literally the only people who make a lick of sense for scum is massive, prohawk, and you VDA, and

i'm pretty certain it's not you

ill target vda,

ill target vda,

ill target

vda

,

[ProHawk]

Orci isn't even acting like town.

[ProHawk]

I don't get it.

[ProHawk]

Maybe someone you are scum-reading?

[ProHawk]

Why am I not surprised that you are underwhelmed? lol

[ProHawk]

Oh, but make sure you don't hammer me until there are two minutes left in the deadline, because you wouldn't want it to be a scummy hammer after-all.

[ProHawk]

Nice game guys!

Prob one of the worst scum games I have been in though

Thanks for modding! The fake-claim stuff didn't even play a factor IMO... actually I didn't even end up claiming anything lol.

[ProHawk]

Screw PoE

[ProHawk]

So what you are saying is I successfully manipulated a town-tell as scum?