Mini 1641 - AP and BRO's Excellent Adventure (Game over!)

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VOTE: VysePresident

Same as above, really, but it felt strange to vote the same person twice out of the gate tbf.

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also srs vote

Vote:Iecerint.

for awkwardly ending his sentence in tbf

I felt pretty sheepish about it. There's no shame in you reading it that way.

The whole sequence was that I intended to vote someone I didn't know because I knew I knew most of the players, I skimmed down to look at who had voted first to see if there was something votable there already (which could supercede that), I saw that dram had already voted my least-known player, I looked back at the playerlist and saw that I knew basically every other player to at least an extent (including Vyse, who I've seen here and there and whose name I thought I recognized from Tactics Ogre, but I see now that that was Vyce), so no one else really fit with what I wanted to do, so I felt kinda frustrated, but I went with it Vyse anyway. I was feeling the frustration somewhat, so I decided to let that be expressed in my post.

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I like playing with players I like. Whether I perceive that I can read them has nothing to do with it.

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I'll play along.

DGB.

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Oh, I read the second part of that wrong. I read it as "who you can read well" -- I thought the implication was that we would like other players that we can read well to be in the game because it would be easier to win.

Uhhhhhhhhh I don't think anyone can particularly read me better than anyone else. Old-Glork was pretty good, though!

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I think the contents that you have quoted basically open by answering your "question."

Pedit @ kiwi.

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I do not understand why the things that Egg has indicated about Seraphim actually make Seraphim any more likely to have a scum alignment.

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seraphim's little trap he set for egg is not really jiving with me at all. looks a lot like sera was planning to vote for egg no matter what he said.
tbh it really looks like distancing to me but it's like page 3 so it'd be real swell if y'all would pretend i didn't say that ty.

This makes some sense though I guess.

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Amending: The first line of what I quoted is what made sense to me. Less so the second line. I had been phone-posting.

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"I have my reasons" kinda implied a somewhat more developed case that he was being cagey about IMO.

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Your answers have been tabulated and disregarded unfortunately. Too disperate.

Egg, dram, or someone else?

Disparate or desperate?

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Are you going to indicate where the sera vote comes from?

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Am I correct in inferring that your "non-rvs" sera vote is based on something from page 1?

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And there's no such post, so apparently not.

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Oh wait nvm I got my games mixed up mb in 109.

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I'm actually OK with it now, so nevermind.

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Could be because Nikanor had already made a serious post, or it could be that he has both a post with some content and an RVS vote.

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I've commented on Egg/you a little bit already.

I think his original take on your post was kind of dumb for the reasons you specified (i.e., you meant they can't read you due to your absence, plus I'd add that I'm not sure that haughtiness would be a scumtell even if it were valid to describe your post that way), but your "trap" response to him was similarly kinda of hackneyed (would you have been OK with him if he said he wasn't reading carefully?), so it's hard for me to differentiate reasonable/normal/townable indignation from people who are identifying errors rather than actually scummy behavior (which is something I would find scummy).

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Since you seem to be online, do you have any particularly strong scumreads yet?

Not particularly. I went back to the player list to try to pick one and thought of kiwi, but I actually think he's town upon reading his iso, mostly for his conclusion about the interaction between you and Egg (especially that it changed, so it looked like he didn't have an agenda going into interpreting it).

Dram I decidedly don't have a townread on, but I have noticed that I never have an early townread on dram of late, so I don't feel strongly-enough about that to vote for him or put rhetoric on him.

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Vyse iso doesn't give me a kiwi moment really, so I'm OK leaving my vote there for right now.

Dan could be scum. I would want to skim for his drunkposting elsewhere on the site during his activity earlier before moving on this I think.

Would like content from ABR/bankai.

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@Iece: You`re just a jerk

Do you generally try to towntell? I do not get the sense that you try to towntell.

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uhh I Dont know what to think at this point, I'm going to read into this more tomorrow, but there has been something on my mind as of lately

Vote Jake from state farm

My name is Jake in real life, and you know how irritating it is

When people bring that commercial joke up to me?

It gets really old after awhile, and I just wish they never made it damnit!

Care to comment on Eggs, since you were previously voting him?

Are you a hydra?

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Dan could be scum. I would want to skim for his drunkposting elsewhere on the site during his activity earlier before moving on this I think.

What do you hope to gain from that?

Jake, I'm surprised if you really think that was intentional on Actiondan's part, but ok.

From the comment itself, my intent/"hope" was to answer Sera's question.

From comparing Dan's comfort drunkposting here vs other places and the associated drunkposting content, I might infer an alignment distinction. I do not know yet because I have not checked.

Not sure which you were asking, but there ye go.

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To save iec the trouble I was pretty drunk off the 5 glasses of wine. Scouts honor

I am not disputing that you were drunk -- I am suggesting that your drunkposting might have been affected by your alignment (favorably or otherwise).

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Uhh after reading the whole thread, it looks to be that egg is legit on trying to find scum, and it's looking that either dra, ser or both are scum, but then again I could be wrong and they could be babbling on like idiots.

Then why did you vote for Jake?

If you're not a hydra, why did you basically RVS twice?

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Actually 3 times

I still don't see why this is scummy...

People tend to write people off when they have a post restriction, people subconsciously assume they are town cause mod wouldn't give scum a PR. No town motivation to fake one IMO. Plus I'm not impressed with her contribution so far

I think Mantis was just alluding to Niki's apparent PR.

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Egg, you were in Inuyasha, right? Could you remind me what your alignment was in that game?

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Nevermind, I checked, you were town. I had the same like mild scumread on you during D1 of that game that I have this game IIRC.

I'm pretty sure Egg is town. Something else he posted at some point this game pinged down despite the sketchy feelings, so coupled together probably solidly town. I don't remember what the ping was about.

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Unvote; Vote: ActionDan

Never have I gone poor lynching ActionDaniel.

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Justice demands retribution.

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@ Kiwi, Dan previously had a meta of being an active lurker while scum. He was lynched on those grounds in uhhhhhhhh Reckoning III most recently that I can think of. More recently he's decided to combat this by being an active lurker as both alignments, which is why I framed it the way that I did. His behavior is no longer a sure thing and I'm not going to pretend it is.

I do think he's maybe probably more likely to be scum than VysePresident.

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@ Kiwi, Dan previously had a meta of being an active lurker while scum. He was lynched on those grounds in uhhhhhhhh Reckoning III most recently that I can think of. More recently he's decided to combat this by being an active lurker as both alignments, which is why I framed it the way that I did. His behavior is no longer a sure thing and I'm not going to pretend it is.

I do think he's maybe probably more likely to be scum than VysePresident.

So basicly.Dan has.decided to become a shit town player.to make himself harder to read.when he's scum?

Well, you've basically described the current site meta in general, but yeah.

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I always get angry at your posts because I know you're capable of playing better.

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Unvote; Vote: bankaikiller

We'd better lynch them before the mods decide it's unfair to have someone replace them.

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Lol.

What has happened to the world I live in.

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We'd better lynch them before the mods decide it's unfair to have someone replace them.

Guys, I meant this as a joke. <_<

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Yeah, the issue now is that if Sera were town the mods probably wouldn't have perceived anything overly outrageous in bankai's behavior.

Caveat is if AP and/or BRO somehow have a history of lots of unnecessary modkills in other games they have modded.

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I think both pre-modkill and post-modkill scumSera basically has to be entertained unless he happens to be able to confirm himself relatively soon. The modkill made scumSera more likely because declaring yourself scum with town if you're sure you're going to be lynched is a perfectly reasonable strategy and not punishable on the grounds of playing against wincon.

But the mods surely would have realized something so obvious and not done it in such a circumstance, etc. So there's modkill WIFOM now.

But they also modkilled kiwieagle for what basically amounted to a claim from what I can tell, albeit one that occurred in an odd way. (I didn't see the posts in question.) So maybe they just like fucking around in their games more than one might expect.

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I would like to hear more players' perspective on whether Sera is autolynch in the absence of something extraordinary before he rushes to claim, though, unless deadline is unchanged.

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inb4 I get modkilled for interpreting the modkill.

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Be sure a claim is on record before he's lynched.

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First glance at Iec's reaction says he's scum too though.

The reaction to bankai, or the reaction to the mods?

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Be sure a claim is on record before he's lynched.

Idk why but this post just seems off, I mean yeah common sense says let him claim, just didn't feel it needed to be said at this point

Reacting to Niki's wording.

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For my part, I think the mod's decision has turned analysis of a player into analysis of the mods. I don't doubt at all that their approach was "normative" for how this site works right now (less so the kiwi modkill, though I didn't see the whole story for that, so maybe the violation was more egregious than it sounds or kiwi had a PR where he couldn't claim or something), but it bothers me in the same way that it bothers me that people get lynched in Normal games for claiming things that recently became non-normal or whatever. I think it corrupts games and is a pet peeve of mine.

I mention this because it is probably relevant to interpreting my reaction to the modkill, which I elaborated on because of Egg's post.

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I would like to hear more players' perspective on whether Sera is autolynch in the absence of something extraordinary before he rushes to claim, though, unless deadline is unchanged.

but you already said you think he is going to rush to claim in this post. Do you honestly think he is going to get speed lynched without the possibility of claiming or even attempting a defense?

Probably not I guess, but I'm in a pretty annoyed mood.

Also, my reaction to all of this stuff is tempered by ABR's recent decision to claim scum and forfeit for no reason a few days ago in another game, similarly when he wasn't the last scum alive. It bothered me there, too. You can read my reaction in the last few pages. It was a little more extreme there because I had been pretty into that game up until ABR's forfeit.

Pedit: @Niki, that's a total misrepresentation/misreading; my conclusion is that we should lynch Seraphim unless he claims something easily confirmable, but we shouldn't lynch him until he claims, and that the modkill makes it a better idea than it would otherwise be (unless it comes out that modkills are AP/BRO's favorite thing, in which case the modkill simply has no effect).

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I think both pre-modkill and post-modkill scumSera basically has to be entertained unless he happens to be able to confirm himself relatively soon. The modkill made scumSera more likely because declaring yourself scum with town if you're sure you're going to be lynched is a perfectly reasonable strategy and not punishable on the grounds of playing against wincon.

But the mods surely would have realized something so obvious and not done it in such a circumstance, etc. So there's modkill WIFOM now.

But they also modkilled kiwieagle for what basically amounted to a claim from what I can tell, albeit one that occurred in an odd way. (I didn't see the posts in question.) So maybe they just like fucking around in their games more than one might expect.

I guess this is the post after the one you quoted, though.

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Though, I would probably be even more pissed off if I were scum in this situation, so I don't blame people for inferring I might be scum on those grounds.

I'm not, though. Just Lawful Neutral. Which isn't a crumb.

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your 310 is super hedgy too; it starts with "sera is probably scum" and then goes on to give excuses as to why he might not be scum. it just looks like a guy who wants to say "sera is scum" but doesn't really have any interest in coming to that conclusion.

1. My 310 doesn't actually give any reasons/"excuses" why Sera might not be scum (edit: unless you mean the line about mod WIFOM I guess). What it does is list reasons why the modkill could potentially not ADD to the chance that Sera is scum (i.e., beyond what bankai already did).

(I always list the main caveat I can perceive to whatever perspective I have put forward. I do it mainly because I think anticipating the response and laying it out speeds up the game, which increases readability/engagement, and prevents a potential adversarial interaction with a player who might have the caveat perspective in mind as they read my post.)

2. My 310 has lots of words (maybe this is what you mean by "excuses?") because Egg's 309 seemed like it had missed the point of my 308. I think 310 will make more sense structurally if you read it in that context.

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Vote: Seraphim

A little surprised there was not a stronger implicit request to be allowed to use the N1 track. Whatever, though.

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That's true. You were my bb tho. :[

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I'm pretty sure dram is town; at least, he was pushing bankai earlier. Though both scumfriends bussing him when it maybe didn't seem that necessary could account for his kind of bizarre reaction.

Relatively definitely town if Sera is town.

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I think there's a good chance at a bus in those three post-claim votes (and I'd maybe lump Jake's comment in with those) if Sera is scum. Iec makes a good point about the track. Like that's kind of provable even though scum trackers exist and could be useful info if Sera is town. But Sera is so likely scum and everyone else seems just as sure, so my vote stays.

Don't lump my comment in, I have thought he's scum from.the jump

3 = three = Iec/Dram/ABR

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wrong on all counts. My vote is looking sexier by the minute.

I remembered him referring back to his initially-RVS vote more frequently, but I guess this is sorta all I see looking back.

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To be honest, I think that the post-claim votes are somewhat less likely to be a scumfriend if anything, on the grounds that it wouldn't be outrageous for someone to try to give him a day to use the claimed ability N1. So they might hold off until it's clear that it's not going to happen. I probably would've done that as Sera's scumfriend, at least.

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I'm not voting until the crumbs are worked out.

There's probably only one scum left.

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There is no reason for vanity wagons when both of the first posters have implied actual caught scum, and they already aren't the same caught scum.

I am waiting for Vyse to react to what Niki said.

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By "vanity," I am implying "based on other than the nightgame" rather than "random."

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I guess your vote was your first post too, though. So maybe that still applies to yours!

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Also, my reaction to all of this stuff is tempered by ABR's recent decision to claim scum and forfeit for no reason a few days ago in another game, similarly when he wasn't the last scum alive. It bothered me there, too. You can read my reaction in the last few pages. It was a little more extreme there because I had been pretty into that game up until ABR's forfeit.

Getting around to this finally, you don't seem nearly as frustrated in that game as you do here. Here you seem genuinely frustrated/annoyed which makes no sense if you are town considering we nabbed 2 scum cause of it. Your frustration definitely makes sense if you are scum though, plus your reactions to both getting killed/lynched also make sense if you are scum.

My frustration in the other game similarly "makes no sense" because I won the game as a result of the objectionable behavior. There's a slight different because this game had modkills whereas that game was a forfeit.

Nik picked up in it also, not sure why she had a chance of heart overnight but hopefully she comes around and beep beeps her jeep on you

Nik actually said I was scum for a different reason -- he said I was fencesitting on Seraphim. I pointed out that I wasn't, and he dropped that line of inquiry (though mostly probably because the day was basically over tbh.

Also, Niki has me as the #2 scum right now. He's probably pushing Egg based on the "scum theater" idea from yesterday, if there's no nightgame component. He hasn't "dropped" me.

The only player who said that the reason you're currently pushing me (upset at town-assisting modkills) could make any sense was me, oddly enough.

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Though, I would probably be even more pissed off if I were scum in this situation, so I don't blame people for inferring I might be scum on those grounds.

I'm not, though. Just Lawful Neutral. Which isn't a crumb.

Here, re: me being the one to voice this perspective.

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What's the reason you're pushing me, then? That's what I see you focused on in your posts.

(Again, I am not objecting to that as a reason to suspect me. My point in clarifying it there was that you said that Niki "picked up on it too," but it's not actually what Niki said he picked up on.)

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OK, I'm going to assume (?) that this is what you mean:

Iec ws defensive when I was attacking his buddy

and then only voted his other buddy [presumably bankaikiller] as a joke that ended badly for him.

I don't know him enough to say if that's him being him or not but paired with his reactions to both scum getting pressured, he looks bad

1. To quote Kaceytron, I don't know what you're in reference to. The only pressure on Seraphim I can remember is Niki's idea that Seraphim-Egg was distancing (and other votes that followed that). I said I didn't get it, but then when I reread it I said I understood the aspect of it that could make Sera kinda scummy (i.e., Sera seemed like he'd vote Egg no matter what, but I didn't think it implied distancing). I don't see anything else you could be referring to.

I have not knowingly reacted to anything you have done this game AFAICR. I view you as a pretty low-impact player in general to be honest, so I think I would remember something like that. So please be more clear here.

2. I did not vote bankai as a joke -- my reference to it as a "joke" post-modkill was me guffawing at AP and BRO and whatever "3rd party" they consulted re: the decision to modkill scum.

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@ Whoever is relevant -- there are probably too many softclaims at this point to follow any of it without some sort of harder claim.

From what has happened, it seems likely that there are probably multiple actions that are sufficient to account for the lack of a N1 kill, so. That's also something.

Vyse posting again may increase the clarity of aspects of this.

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Dram, did you discover that N1, or already know it D1?

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You can decline to answer.

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He is claiming that his ability is something like this:

"Choose a player. When that player dies, you get ability XYZ."

He chose you N1.

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I am fine with unlocking dram in the absence of hard evidence against a particular player, since the claimed ability seems too hackneyed to be made-up (so I think it's real), and it would be pretty boring on scum (since it would probably be equivalent to having an ability starting N2).

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You're making sure dram gets lynched?

So you think dram is scum?

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Plus if he can't use his ability and we didn't have a kill last night...

I had not considered that, but most Mods will let players use the factional kill with their ability when they're the last alive.

Ours mods are kind of special, though, so you never know!

I think it's more likely that the no-kill was tactical and intentional than that the Mods didn't allow ability+NK to be honest.

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He clearly suspected you D1, so him picking you given that his claim is real makes perfect sense. Like, that's how you would expect town to use that ability.

I didn't actually notice the NK claim implication and still don't. Where? I remember thinking that the PROTECT ME MINIONS thing might be a crumb, but that's all.

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Dram did make one reference to being happy about lynching you D1 tho. But I don't know if that was intentionally a crumb.

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Paranoid theory tho: Dram could be a lyncher on Jake, and claim simply really clever. This could

also

be consistent with no kill.

Reasons: BRO's Teen Wolf game had mostly basic roles IIRC. My sense is that AP likes pretty dull roles, too, and I know he wrote all of the PMs in a pretty short window of time due to previous boyfriend privileges. Also, this game is primarily inspired by an event, so it would be unusual for a fancy role mechanic to exist in a game whose reason for existing is mainly an event. Also, bankai calling out the entire scumteam would make the modkill less of a big deal in terms of impact on the expected outcome.

Counterpoints and countercounterpoints: AP did put some cool roles into Reckoning III, but that was designed and modded with N, though I think it was mostly AP. He also had some cool stuff in Sabotage, but that was designed around a particular concept. I would imagine AP designing simple roles after what happened with Sabotage. But, dram's ability wouldn't be hard to resolve. I don't have other mod meta.

EDIT Big Counterpoint: But this is super unlikely, because bankaikiller specifically referenced letting us find the "last scum." So nevermind!

Pedit: @Jake, lyncher unlikely due to bankai claiming another scumfriend.

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Like, bankai could have been bullshitting, but relatively unlikely since he legit called out Seraphim.

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(By dull I just mean wiki.)

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Ah, I see.

Vote count, please

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I have a hard time believing that you actually think dram is scum.

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BRO thinks of himself as really good at theory, so I suspect that he's the one who mostly made the set-up. This is also consistent with AP doing most of the actual moderation.

My flavor I think is also relatively consistent with BRO having designed the game.

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Does dram have a history of lying as town?

I'm pretty sure he doesn't because the only person I've played with for multiple years that I associate with that is Katsuki.

But it's relevant if he has a history of that.

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You clearly don't know what a 1v1 is.

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It matters because if Katsuki were doing what dram is doing right now, I would ignore it.

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What makes you think Jake is town?

Like, I "think" he's town on the grounds that there's a 10% chance if we're lynching blindly, but I'd put him above the background probability, and his reaction to dram makes me think it more rather than less.

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Note to dram. Pick the towniest person so scum kills them. There's a lot this game though I guess.

They're both reasonable strategies I think.

It could backfire if the scummy player he targets claims something confirmable, though.

Pedit: A 1v1 means that you are saying that exactly 1 of you and the other person is scum, as when if you claim a guilty on someone. In that circumstance, what you are describing will happen, so it can backfire if you have a sanity issue or the target is an unclaimed miller (both rare these days).

But in the current case, if you flip town, there's no reason dram would be any more likely to be lynched tomorrow, unless you are crumbing that you have an ability that forces us to lynch dram if you are lynched or whatever, which is a bridge too far into silliness IMO.

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If you are town, please stop with the lazy rhetoric. It makes you look desperate.

Referring to the earlier reaction to dram and the 1v1 foolishness rather than the recent "obvtown" thing.

@Dan, kk.

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Okay. I understand.

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Vyse plz

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His role (if hes telling the truth) isnt his wincon.

Don't tempt AP!

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I could not have stopped the NK.

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We should probably at least wait until one of the mods visits the thread.

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Ya I would like the flavor of whoever we lynch for sure.

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I want to at least wait until Aaron gets to the thread and does housekeeping.

There may be other issues for him to address.

I am voicing this again because I already did it, and this way someone else doesn't have to.

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He's on site chat right now. Send him a love message if you want him to hurry.

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It should come from someone else. It doesn't feel right for me to pester him right now.

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in all seriousness though, why are we waiting to lynch the deviled egg? there was a block claim and no night kill; he has to go

Want to give the Mods a chance to clear up any residual questions from players before the next night phase. AFB have not been online since day started Friday night.

We do not know if people other than Egg have them, but it's quite possible, and it would be dumb for us to literally ask who among us needs Mod help with understanding N1 stuff.

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maybe iec can prod a-a-a-aron again?

I do not have any unique prodding privileges.

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Niki's take on Vyse's claim made sense to me.

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Did they come to the thread and answer questions without a modkill OR vote count?

I had thought Egg was at L-1 when ABR was trying to get me to vote, but I guess Egg was at L-2 at the time.

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His fakeclaim only lasted 2 hours.

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Why did you push Egg as you did if you knew you could also account for the lack of kill?

If you needed to confirm something with the mod, similarly, why did you push for hurrying the Egg lynch?

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I'm pretty sure he has not reneged on being bulletproof. He can clarify if I am mistaken.

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So far as we know, I think it's only possible for ABR to be scum if he intentionally no-killed.

That's not impossible, and there might be a successful protect that caused the lack of death, anyway, but ye know.

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My point is that you are relatively unlikely to be scum. A conspiracy is necessary for you to be scum.

Relevant to Jake's comment.

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And that's putting aside other stuff that Dan also mentioned, etc.

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Scum don't have a redirect and 4 scum members. 0% chance.

The town motivation for Niki claiming what he did is that it might have made Niki panic and modify his claim if Niki were scum.

Relatively unlikely given Vyse's crumb on Niki, though. It kinda locks Niki in given that he's scum.

Pedit: Egg, I explicitly mention the possibility of a protect and of a no-submit in the post you just quoted.

We know that scum don't have a redirector because their redirector already flipped.

I agree that Konowa looks sketchy, but I am hesitant to rhetoric around too much because I'm not sure who Dan's partner is.

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The sundry other explanations for no NK are pretty unlikely because they would probably claim if it looked like you were going to be lynched on night-action grounds (ala ABR's claim).

If you are town, parsimony suggests that ABR is also town and accounts for the lack of NK. The next-most-likely scenario is that no NK was submitted. Less likely is that someone declined to claim to save you.

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EBWOP: The town motivation for ABR** claiming what he did.

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I recommend that you read the first part of the sentence (i.e., that you edited out) and get back to me. Thanks!

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Also, bankai explicitly referenced "the last scum" in his bm post that was egregious enough to draw a modkill on "play against wincon" grounds, suggesting that there was no guile in said post.

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The presence of an SK, while basically definitely irrelevant in this particular game for the reason you already mentioned, still wouldn't change the logic at all AFAICT.

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If Niki stopped the kill, Egg is scum, meaning that ABR is town.

(The assumption is that there is 1 scum left.)

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Niki stopped the kill => Egg is scum, GG

ABR stopped the kill => ABR is town, many scum remain possible

No kill sent in => No information, but we get a free lynch

Something else stopped the kill => Someone made a good night action and then lost interest in the game and stopped following the thread OR they think it's better not to claim outright for whatever reason, but Egg's JOAT claim seems pretty stronk so

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Strongman flip is consistent with some kind of protect or whatever, though the roleblock could maybe account for it, too.

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So now we are down to egg is scum or nik is scum, until vyse posts again we won't know what is in his mind.

It's not a 1/1. If Egg is town, Niki could still be town. Egg's alignment has nothing to do with Niki's.

It's basically pretty obvious at this point that Vyse is a rolecop who found that Niki was a Roleblocker and inferred that he was scum on those grounds due to meta suggesting roleblockers were scum, so that's most likely what Vyse was going on about. It's slightly surprising that Niki figured it out so quickly, but that's that.

Pedit: @Dram, I'm kind of relying on Dan&Friend for the townread on Jake. I found the bankai post they were talking about. /shrug

@Jake, if you won't go away if we lynch you, why do you care whether we lynch you? It seems like this would make you the ideal target for whatever dram did.

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It's weird that Vyse would have cool things to contribute and then disappear, though.

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Sera Stfu dude.... Some people have lives, and work alot. Sorry for my inactivity, I still just see back and forth bs, and wth.... Why are you lieing to town?????

Vote jake

2 hours later:

btw, serph is my mafia partner in crime. thanks for trying to out me asswipe. Way to be a team player lol.

This game has already been stagnating might as well kill it. You can figure out who the third mafia member is on your own town.

[Iecerint]

His earlier stuff with Jake (not quoted) could be distancing, but pivoting back to him and then getting angry about Sera doing the same 2 hours later would be strange and hypocritical.

A funny plot twist would be if bankaikiller assumed he was getting lynched and this was all part of his master plan and he was banned from mafia games for 3 months for no reason.

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Great! Mantis and Konowa are my two favorite candidates. ^_^

I probably lean Konowa.

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Dan, for clarity, is your friend a player in this game, or is your friend someone you invited to play the game with you as a fake hydra?

I want to avoid the case where someone claims to be him subsequent to your death if the latter is what's going on.

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That being said, why hasn't anyone put Iecerint under the microscope?

ABR do you think I am scum.

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Out of everyone in the game, I think Jake and Iece would want to kill me the most.

FWIW (likely not much), I definitely would have killed Niki N1 as scum. No question.

Tbf I think I've towntold extremely hard in multiple posts today.

[Iecerint]

@ ABR, namely, if you're relatively convinced that Egg is town and you stopped the kill, my behavior concerning Egg should convince you that I am town for the same reason that your behavior should convince Jake and others that you are town.

Caveat: You might infer that I "knew" you had stopped the kill somehow and consequently become cautious of your rush on Egg. But you're not the only one who rushed on Egg, anyway, so I don't think this is much of a caveat.

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@ ABR, namely, if you're relatively convinced that Egg is town and you stopped the kill, my behavior concerning Egg should convince you that I am town for the same reason that your behavior should convince Jake and others that you are town.

You would have sat back and let it play out instead of rushing in for an Egg lynch as scum. You necessarily know that something blocked your kill that is not Nik, if Nik claims the RB on Egg, anyway.

Please do not deliberately edit out the part of my post where I list your exact counterpoint and pretend I am hiding something. It looks bad.

It's a bad argument, anyway. Scum have no incentive to act on that knowledge in that kind of circumstance.

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Out of everyone in the game, I think Jake and Iece would want to kill me the most.

FWIW (likely not much), I definitely would have killed Niki N1 as scum. No question.

Tbf I think I've towntold extremely hard in multiple posts today.

why would you have killed niki?

He called out Seraphim aggressively throughout D1, so it was obvious that he was town. That sense of Sera being "so town" would be even more salient for me if I were the last scum (i.e., as is, my feelings are a little bit hazy and I privately entertained dumb stuff like the idea that he was typing Egg to his scumfriend and so on). He had also intermittently scumread me during D1, including during twilight.

I know that your memory of D1 is that you were meaningfully aggressive against Sera (you've mentioned it multiple times today), but Niki is the one who was memorable for me on this point, in particular because he made the point that Sera's question toward Egg had no "non-scummy" answer.

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Caveat: You might infer that I "knew" you had stopped the kill somehow and consequently become cautious of your rush on Egg. But you're not the only one who rushed on Egg, anyway, so I don't think this is much of a caveat.

It looks scummy when you say "you might infer". How is that exactly not what would happen?

Let's say I'm scum and kill a player and the kill doens't go through, then someone claims RB on another player. In this instance, as scum, of course I would know something impacted me that isn't the RB.

1. The inference is in how my behavior (i.e., cautiousness) could be reflective of a scum alignment (e.g., knowledge of nightkill). You could infer that it's due to that rather than being due to wanting the Mods to check into the game first. I knew they hadn't yet because Egg had mentioned something about it (and I knew they never got back because I checked their Last Visited periodically in the days following, though I never said that in-thread).

Also, if I

were

scum wanting to stall in this scenario, I would have let someone else awkwardly ask for time for the Mods to get back to clear up night-related issues. Instead, I explicitly pointed out that I was requesting it to avoid others having to ask for it. I mentioned this like 4 times because people who don't read the thread kept asking why we hadn't lynched Egg yet. Note also that it would have been really really easy to just lynch Egg while everyone was restless because the Mods took 3-4 days to revisit the thread after opening it Friday night.

2. Knowing something ("scumIec shot ABR" or even just more generally "Egg is town") and having an incentive to act on that knowledge are not the same thing. In this case, scumIec has no incentive to play as if he knows that he actually targeted ABR. It's not as if joining people on Egg would single out scumIec as the one who targeted ABR or whatever.

[Iecerint]

Vyse needs to come back and full claim.

I do not understand why you think that Vyse's fullclaim is an important thing for us to have.

[Iecerint]

It probably makes sense to nail down the parts of his claim that have been softclaimed.

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I'm going to read over Konowa and Mantis tomorrow and decide.

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Please prod Konowa

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Skimming Konowa, I actually think he is town. I wish he would re-appear, though.

Mantis looks like scum.

[Iecerint]

Konowa has early and consistent crumbs, which are usually something that comes from town. Scum start thinking about their fakeclaim gradually as the game progresses.

Caveat: Since Dan and dram both apparently have fancy roles, scum may also have one fancy role. Something like that could lend itself to the above. But it's relatively still relatively unlikely.

Double-caveat: Seraphim was an odd-night thing. Konowa's crumb being focused on D3 sounds like an even-night thing. Potential parallelism. Mod meta would be helpful.

Mantis is an active lurker and broken record.

Pedit: The thing in particular that stood out with mantis is that her reads do not appear to be developing at all. You can copy-paste some of her ideas onto different parts of the game and even the language is almost identical. "I like iec" stood out to me in particular. In lieu of trying to analyze things, she asks questions about things that have happened, frequently in a way that suggests she hasn't thought very critically about things that have happened (e.g., "why is jake suddenly scum" recently).

[Iecerint]

I don't know if I've ever played with her before, though. I mostly just know her from League. So you may be better at assessing her than I am.

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Are there particular Mantis posts that towntell for you?

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I had not noticed that.

Looking back, bankai's is RVS and Mantis's follows an actual case from Sera, so I don't know if normal rules apply. It's not like they were 3 consecutive bandwagon votes.

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Since bankai's was rvs, I can see mantis as just kind of following sera and not really being mindful of the three scum votes, especially because there's no vote count inbetween.

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Mantis's return posts don't really make me think she's town. For example, the post about ABR/Jake implies that they're somehow both town and confused, or suspicious, or are they, etc.

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Not voting until Konowa appears, though.

[Iecerint]

Konowa has early and consistent crumbs, which are usually something that comes from town. Scum start thinking about their fakeclaim gradually as the game progresses.

Caveat: Since Dan and dram both apparently have fancy roles, scum may also have one fancy role. Something like that could lend itself to the above. But it's relatively still relatively unlikely.

Double-caveat: Seraphim was an odd-night thing. Konowa's crumb being focused on D3 sounds like an even-night thing. Potential parallelism. Mod meta would be helpful.

Mantis is an active lurker and broken record.

Pedit: The thing in particular that stood out with mantis is that her reads do not appear to be developing at all. You can copy-paste some of her ideas onto different parts of the game and even the language is almost identical. "I like iec" stood out to me in particular. In lieu of trying to analyze things, she asks questions about things that have happened, frequently in a way that suggests she hasn't thought very critically about things that have happened (e.g., "why is jake suddenly scum" recently).

yea, because it's obvious you are town. same with ABR.

re why is jake suddenly scum -

i said that because it seemed liked ABR just latched onto him out of nowhere. i personally think that ABR, was just getting fed up with the egg-nik-him kerfuffle, and wanted to try a new direction. and because jake happened to be there and around, and of course, voting ABR at that time, that albert just ended up getting zoned into him. but for no good reason, from what i can/could see.

anyway >.>

my vote stays on egg

he has to go /broken record

@Vyse, this is the post I'm talking about.

[Iecerint]

Mantis's return posts don't really make me think she's town. For example, the post about ABR/Jake implies that they're somehow both town and confused, or suspicious, or are they, etc.

i never said or have thought that they were confused.

If someone is town and doing something for no good reason, the implication is that they are confused.

More generally, you are putting a lot of effort into why people you think are TOWN are doing something without showing alignment paranoia. This seems like you're trying to solve the wrong mystery, which is what makes me think you are scum.

[Iecerint]

But lynching Konowa is fine idc.

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Waiting for claims.

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No one visited Nik.

Which makes no sense if his block didn't work.

Waiting for Niki's reaction here.

I blame everyone for lynching kowana prematurely.

We should've asked for a replacement earlier and more emphatically, but we definitely dragged it out long enough.

[Iecerint]

He didn't get an action. He's a multi-shot Bookie. These are his claims:

N0: No action
N1: Targeted Jake, failed to lynch Jake, no reward
N2: Targeted mantis

[Iecerint]

Since dram is confirmed a Bookie of some sort via Vyse, I think the Jake kill seems more like an attempt to implicate dram than it would otherwise.

Dram-the-scum-bookie doesn't gain anything extra from killing Jake at night, but based purely on his claim it seemed like a Jake nightkill would disproportionately benefit dram.

[Iecerint]

i blocked mantis last night.

Are no reneging on your block not working such that you're saying that mantis is cleared?

[Iecerint]

EBWOP: Are you*

[Iecerint]

Also Vyse, how was your night?
Learn anything

interesting

?

EDIT: To troll me.

did u get ur thing dram

Ask Vyse =_=

I'm kinda confused by this, though.

How did dram know that Vyse targeted him? If anything, I thought we had directed Vyse to confirm ABR's bulletproof claim.

[Iecerint]

@Dram - You already know I did, if Frat Bros handled their end correctly.

Uh I guess he's a rolecop whose targets know he targeted them?

[Iecerint]

I am trying to consider why the Mods would include a rolecop variant that informs the target that they have been targeted.

Like, I'm not disputing that it's a thing, but that seems non-standard.

[Iecerint]

Also, if you're saying that you got a message saying that he'd rolecopped you, that probably obviates your argument from yesterday that you were confirmed town due to knowing that he'd rolecopped you. <_<

Like, I do think you're town, but. <_<

[Iecerint]

Does Magnolia Crawford use bananas in her act? I had never heard of her.

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I'm hesitating mainly because you've gambited enough times that I'm primed to assume that this is a gambit.

Also, something that you did makes me relatively sure you're not a bodyguard, if your implication is that that's what you targeted him with.

[Iecerint]

I bodyguarded Nikanor, yes.

If you're a bodyguard, why did you attack me D2 on the assumption that I was a player who would be relatively likely to kill you?

Are you a bodyguard who opted not to bodyguard N1?

[Iecerint]

When you checked with the Mod during D2, what was your question?

[Iecerint]

Hmm. OK.

I'll vote by the end of the day if nothing changes. It will give everyone a chance to react.

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I don't see a problem with mantis just claiming her targets. There's probably just 1 scum alive, so it's not like someone's going to lie to protect her.

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Vote: Egg

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Dan wants a massclaim and the others are lurkan.

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You asked, I answered.

Egg did good D2. /shrug

[Iecerint]

From what I could gather, I think someone else who's not in this game (but shared his IP address) posted in this game and claimed his role, so they modkilled him on the grounds that he could cleverly be, uh, claiming Cop on D1. Or something.

I certainly hope there was more to it than that.

[Iecerint]

Hope bank gets permabanned or something.

He was banned for something like 4 months IIRC.

[Iecerint]

I guess there really wasn't more to it than that.

[Iecerint]

I certainly hope there was more to it than that.

I guess there really wasn't more to it than that.

[Iecerint]

Oh, you know him from your other site? I was wondering.

[Iecerint]

my friend posted "I am kiwi and kiwi is a cop!" or something along those lines

Such gamebreaking, wow.