Mini 1646: Quil's Smalltown (Game over!)

[farside22]

I was thinking of picking 7.
Damn you jake for picking my number.

[farside22]

I choose

Invictus

You think you may win scum but take me down and be sure I will bite back.

[farside22]

Methinks the lady doth protest too much

Ooo I rocked a nerve already.
Sweet.

[farside22]

*pokes thread*

*taps at watch*

sigh

[farside22]

Vote: pine

[farside22]

I'm gone until monday.

But based solely off of role selection?

VOTE: farside

What up now?

You're saying farside is scum based on role selection? Wtf would scum want that role? It is of no use to them.

This^

Hush kitty. You know scum shots at me when I'm town.

I'm not getting much in the way of scumreads, but I'm getting unusual quality Townreads

BooKitty, for example. There's just way too much incentive for scum to want that role (arguably a stronger investigator than 1-shot Cop) out of Town hands. No real reason for scum (either type) to make that offer. And no, I don't think it's WIFOM-bait, that's too obscure to reliably think someone will WK you for it

Thank you! Though I was mostly thinking that my role wouldn't make that much difference to my having fun in this game and it might make a bigger difference to someone else. That was pretty much my whole thought process there.

Agree with Pine on boo

vote: farside

grib or jingle are fine for hot lynching too

I agree with jingle scum but I don't see anything wrong with grib.
Can you explain it?

[farside22]

I'm assuming marquis scum read comes from picking encryptor role.
Useless to town and better roles to pick?

[farside22]

@pine: I was responding to dv here when he asked about the votes on marquis.

Aronis, why did you pick ascetic?

Grib, why does shii's wish to lynch you mean shii hates you? We lynch with love in this town!

Why are people even voting for Marquis? This is actually a serious question because if you're gossiping together with some dirty scummy secrets about him I'm very much out of the loop and want to be evangelized.

The contenders are....

Aronis...

Grib...

xRECKONERx... (I don't know, I had to pick a third ok?)

Who is the kind of scummiest but not really of them all?

It is...

VOTE: Aronis

Is there any reason your not reading the game in full or are you still intimated by my pr?

[farside22]

I don't really know what you're talking about.

I'd also rather hear about why people are voting for Marquis from the people that are voting for Marquis!

(Especially considering Shii's thoughts on Marquis, which I agree with)

Okay.

Well I'll throw my feelings out there.
I didn't like pine or jingles ration to my comment. I feel scum would be scared to have the ability out there and try to lynch me instead of killing me.
Marquis taking the encryptor role is meh. Town taking it from scum or scum using it. I never really found the ability strongly used so I'm pretty meh about the choice.

[farside22]

Who here has played with aronis?

*Looks at reck*

Pretty sure you have.

Most people find him scummy.
His response is typical aronis. :headsmack:

[farside22]

Well I see this is going to be another fun filled let's ignore farside type game for me.
Fun.

[farside22]

Who here has played with aronis?

*Looks at reck*

Pretty sure you have.

Most people find him scummy.
His response is typical aronis. :headsmack:

is this you saying he's town

what warrants a response here, exactly

Aronis is an easy mislynch. I've seen it a number of games.
I'm wondering what makes him scum this game.

[farside22]

Next up to express interest will be pine.
This scumtastic wagon is brought to you by scum r us.
Yes scum r us.

Good I feel mafia with a twist all over again coming.

[farside22]

hey farside i'm familiar with aronis too

there are many reasons why he typically eats mislynches as town

this differs from previous encounters

Can you explain to me the differences?

[farside22]

Mod: did scum get pregame chat of some sort?

[farside22]

• 
  

  Mod: did scum get pregame chat of some sort?

  
  Scum were able to talk freely in the length of time between receiving their alignment PMs and the start of Day 1, regardless of whether or not they drafted the Encryptor, yes.
  

Okay so I'm thinking if aronis is scum, giving dv's thought.
Wouldn't there be a talk about what to take?

I just think changing his mind on what to pick would get people voting him and there is more advantage to keeping rb as scum.

[farside22]

Who here has played with aronis?

*Looks at reck*

Pretty sure you have.

Most people find him scummy.
His response is typical aronis. :headsmack:

Sorry about inactivity today; I fell asleep

@Farside: Does Aronis typically act this way regardless of alignment?

I haven't played with him before that I remember. My objection to him (apart from role related things, most notably the stutter-step about roleblocker vs. ascetic) is attitude. He's doling out information very sparingly and he seems really antagonistic in response to questions.

I asked him if he was confident in his ability to play power roles because that would have been an answer as to why one would pick ascetic over roleblocker. I'm not terribly confident myself but I'm planning on asking who I should target and then picking semi-randomly from the responses given. It's not like I need to hide in this game.

I think if you pick a role that can't be read you ought to be willing to eat the lynch because it's going to be necessary unless you town it up incredibly and basically prove yourself through other means. Aronis hasn't done that. He's done the opposite of that. You're saying he's abrasive, I think -- if he knows that, then it's on him to either choose a different role or to demonstrate he's town through play.

If this is his playstyle, we're going to have to lynch him at some point anyway for being unreadable and/or scummy. Why shouldn't it be today?

Aronis has foot in mouth issues. There are many times he post things that have been looked at as scummy.
He also has made bad choices as town. I don't expect him to use a role well but I could be bias based on one game.

Why is being abressive behavoir scummy? Have you ever seen players change bad behavoir before?

[farside22]

Who here has played with aronis?

*Looks at reck*

Pretty sure you have.

Most people find him scummy.
His response is typical aronis. :headsmack:

Who here has played with aronis?

*Looks at reck*

Pretty sure you have.

Most people find him scummy.
His response is typical aronis. :headsmack:

is this you saying he's town

what warrants a response here, exactly

Aronis is an easy mislynch. I've seen it a number of games.
I'm wondering what makes him scum this game.

Farside, I see a lot of complaining about people scumreading Aronis, but I've said why I think this as have others, so if you want people to townread him, you need to explain how the things we are accusing him of are actually things he does anyway. If not, then we can't take you seriously because you're saying we're ignoring you but you're not backing up anything you're saying.

Next up to express interest will be pine.
This scumtastic wagon is brought to you by scum r us.
Yes scum r us.

Good I feel mafia with a twist all over again coming.

I also don't understand this quote. It's more complaining without any real substance behind it, nor much attempt to explain why Aronis is town/why the wagon is scum.

The wagon I believe had 4 votes and 2 that expressed interest in voting.
I think it's a bit quick on a player I've seen mislynched.

I'm terrible explaining anything town reasoning, but from my prospective quick votes, little said, scum on wagon.

Jingle, this is just theory-based and so feel free to ignore, but I disagree with the gentleman thief being particularly useful for scum since uses are announced in the game thread. On that note, I'm also unsure of how beneficial it would be for it to constantly change hands, because of the transparency of such an action. I will refrain from expressing my opinion on the BP for obvious reasons. I also disagree about the Archivist/Cop roles being that unlikely for scum, especially the cop, since looking at the role PMs the serial killer should show up as innocent to the cop, so why would serial killer kill a cop? Archivist is arguable, but Bookitty seems town so far so I don't care so much about that right now. I also don't get why you're telling scum what not to do?

Wouldn't there be a talk about what to take?

I just think changing his mind on what to pick would get people voting him and there is more advantage to keeping rb as scum.

I find it interesting how you're leaping from one reason to defend Aronis to a totally unrelated one. In response to this, I have thought about it and don't see much that I can take as being incredibly indicative of alignment. First, while scum did have pregame talk, I wouldn't expect them to be constantly online and chatting (many scumteams I've been on have been pretty limited communication-wise), so I think it's quite likely that scum may have chosen roles without direct consultation with their partners, especially early on. Changing his mind may be something unlikely from scum, but I consider it possible enough to overlook, and I think it's pretty arguable whether ascetic or rb is more useful for scum.

I've thought about it some more and roleblocker actually kind of sucks for scum, because you don't have the freedom that would come with being an anonymous roleblocker. So, Aronis could very well have realised that while roleblocker is normally a lovely scum role, it's not here, which could have prompted the change in decision. I don't think this is a reason to think he's scum so much as a reason not to townread him for changing his role, and I'm actually a lot less passionate about Aronis being scum right now than one might expect, but I'm cool with the wagon as it is right now and I'm eager to hear more from Aronis.

Some of what you said about aronis was a bit theorish so I went with a theory.
I also don't understand one thing with the above, do you think scum don't communicate or chat pregame?

I disagree about the boo town read.

[farside22]

• 
  
  Vote count 1.5
  
  
  Aronis (4)— DeasVail, Marquis, Flubbernugget, xRECKONERx
  Jingle (2)— Shiidaji, Antihero
  farside22 (2)— Jingle, Pine
  Pine (2)— farside22, Grib
  
  Not Voting (3)— Bookitty, Jake from State Farm, Aronis
  
  It takes 7 to lynch or no lynch.
  
  
  Deadline
  
  
  Day 1 will be 10 days long. It ends in (expired on 2015-02-24 21:15:09).
  
  
  Mod notes
  
  
  Remember, you can request an updated Role PM containing your selected role's info any time you like, as detailed in the Setup post.

Yeah I was right about 4 votes.

[farside22]

Aronis has foot in mouth issues. There are many times he post things that have been looked at as scummy.
He also has made bad choices as town. I don't expect him to use a role well but I could be bias based on one game.

1. Why is being abressive behavoir scummy?
2. Have you ever seen players change bad behavoir before?

1. It's not. It makes you more likely to be lynched, though.
2. I have. I don't see how that's relevant.

1. so why is this something you pointed out against aronis
2. like who? this is serious because I see more and more players who don't learn and still do bad things like not mafia is an example of lurking it up all game long and not caring.

If I had chosen ascetic, I would expect to be lynched unless I acted really really town. Because I think that, I wouldn't have picked it even if it had been an option because I would consider that I was depriving town of one person pretty much automatically. What I think doesn't dictate what Aronis thinks, but this didn't thrill me:

So roleblocker is probably my favorite 'normal' mafia role. And basically my idea was to pick a powerful role and keep it out of scum hands, at first I thought roleblocker, but after thinking about it, if the cop gets blocked we'll know who's responsible, so it isn't as powerful due to it being public. Ascetic, on the other hand, is extremely helpful, because they become immune to everything, except the sk kill and getting lynched.

Yet later on he forgot about the SK kill when defending Farside despite thinking of it both during his role selection and during his defense of his role selection:

@Jingle: I had forgotten about the SK.

Let me flip this question for you, Farside:

Why is Aronis town? We can't investigate him to check, he mostly gives one or two line answers that provide minimal information, and he's chosen a role that by his own admission is extremely helpful for scum.

Why are you so convinced he's town?

[/quote]

everyone acts the same = scum?
you have this expectation of players that far exceeds my expectation. You seem to think they all fit in a nice, neat little category of common sense.
You can't be that naive.

As for aronis, he isn't a town read, but I don't like the speed of the wagon or those that jumped on it. Do you think that a quick wagon leads to a scum lynch for sure?
Or would you question it?
Also I will note most of your push is based on aronis role and not him as scum.

[farside22]

unless I feel good about the player who is getting votes i will typically look at the wagon to see who is scum on it.
It doesn't matter if its a town read or scum read. Its my thoughts of okay I see a player that I know can be mislynched, I see votes cast on him and suddenly 4 votes with 2 of interest.
Something doesn't look good to me about the wagon.

I think I made that pretty clear kitty.

I think it's rediculous to believe scum is going to wave this red flag saying what you believe kitty.

I mean no one ask marquis why he picked his role. What could he say other then keep it from scum hands now that you gave him that response? Where are people asking why Pine took thief? Sure it's public knowledge but I can tell you without thinking my bet he will use his ability on me.


hmmmmm

Mod: Can the thief use the ability they stole get that same night?

[farside22]

bleck post preview will be my friend one day

mod: can the thief use the ability he stole from on the same night

[farside22]

I mean no one ask marquis why he picked his role. What could he say other then keep it from scum hands now that you gave him that response?

theoretically the best course of action is to make selection phase similar to an early day 1 and determine the towniest "good/threatening" player and give them encryptor so scum has to make the decision to kill a town pr or kill a threatening player but 1) i will only trust myself for a long while this game 2) it is absolutely critical that scum don't get encryptor in this setup and 3) i don't have to worry about my pr fucking things up/being tempted not to follow plans

contemplated coroner but doesn't matter as much as encryptor since scum lying about that result is basically just saying "yo can some1 crosskill me kthx"

same for cop

Not a very good point, Farside. I expect better from you.

Why do you think Pine is going to steal your role? Why do you think he'd be targeted for a nightkill tonight if you think he's scum and are voting him?

I forgot about that.



Pine comment I explained a bit in my theory about scum fearing me. Scum pine would steal it sine I suspect him.
Yes I'm voting him.

Is there a reason you did not awnser my post 161 questions.
Add to my questions are you town reading everyone on the aronis wagon?

@ marquis: I wasn't ignoring you I was judging your read on aronis. I don't think I've played with aronis when he was ever scum. So I'm not sure where your coming from but I felt your post was a good thought process.


@ Jake: recently or in general? If in general I tend to get Nk day 2 more often.

[farside22]

ok reading now

@farside - how many games have you been NK'd as town in the first 2 night phases?

I like boo's post 87. I don't think scum would be bold enough to take encryptor so early

on the surface I like DV's post 115 but i am not necessarily sold that aronis is scum based on role selection.

reck's 123 made me lol

farside - why did you ask about pregame chat? what promoted you to ask that now?

vote: pine

I'm thinking about aronis and how he picked his role. I think scum would just stick with their first choice.

Why the vote on pine?

[farside22]

1. so why is this something you pointed out against aronis
2. like who? this is serious because I see more and more players who don't learn and still do bad things like not mafia is an example of lurking it up all game long and not caring.

I didn't answer these before because I honestly don't understand your point with either of them.

1. Taking ascetic and then giving the shortest answers possible to questions will likely get you lynched sooner or later. We were talking about Aronis, who took ascetic and then showed no signs of wanting to help town. I would have pointed it out about others, but it didn't apply to them.

2. Why is it relevant to this game whether I've seen people change up their playstyles, improve or produce standout performances? I think I've improved since I started. I think people can improve if they know what they do wrong. Yeah, there are lurkers and active lurkers; there are also GREAT players out there who improve all the time. Copper, for example, did something I've never seen before and basically won the game for scum just recently (game available on request). I really hope I've improved and learned from mistakes made in the past. I just don't get how your general pessimistic attitude toward Mafiascum players has anything to do with the specific case here.

What do YOU think should be done with an outed ascetic who can't be cleared by investigation and doesn't look like he wants to help town? I'd be really interested to know. Should we wait til LYLO to decide about that?

Tbf I lost focus so I can't remember what I was thinking here.
As for the abilty I have a big issue with the idea of lynching a player just based on their role.
You keep bringing it up as a reason to lynch him rather then trying to figure him out.

@dv: I don't like boo's approach to aronis and the focus on the ability over and over is a big red flag.

@jake: I don't have exact stats on how often I've been Nk. I just know recently it's night 1 and I think a few times it was day 3.

[farside22]

@Farside: It is a role he chose. It is not a randomly assigned role. It's a role he chose EARLY.

My questions to Aronis are two-pronged, not just one as you're trying to imply.

His CHOICE of role is such that he should expect to come under suspicion for it, especially given his own stated reasoning behind choosing it. Choosing ascetic precludes any investigation to clear himself. It's a role that can't be allowed to go to LYLO. I think anyone with any experience with ascetic would know that it would be a role with an expiration date.

The part you're ignoring or dismissing is that he's not being helpful to town. He's not. You don't even have him as a townread. You said you don't have experience of his scum game. Yet you're making the meta defence to end all meta defences on his behalf, in essence saying that he always plays like that. You don't KNOW that. If he DOES play like that all the time, though, he's unhelpful to town. His role is not helpful to town. He's doing nothing to help himself and you're doing all the heavy lifting. I would expect this level of defence if he was your mason buddy; we know he's not, though. You don't even think he's town.

I don't see scum-Farside making this defence for scum-Aronis, though. It's more likely to me that scum-Farside would make this concerted defence of town-Aronis or possible SK-Aronis to try to drum up some towncred.

I know you think that asking questions without a real reason is scummy. So you should know I'd spot that right away.

VOTE: Farside

Your attacking his role choice.
That's all I read from the above. Then you attack him for not towning it up. Now I'm being attacked for your bs theory.

Fasinating
Let's chalk off everything you ignored
1). The wagon on aronis went quickly
2) you stated you were not town reading everyone on the wagon but still pushing the wagon
3) you attacked aronis role prove above
4) I don't do indepth meta research, you know this from our previous game.

Vote: bookitty

[farside22]

Kitty also ignored that since I've seen aronis lynched in previous games as town is be wary of a quick wagon in him and look at those on the wagon.
Again said this game.

[farside22]

I'm not using meta to defend aronis.
I'm saying what I've seen happen in other games.
Also I don't by the 180 degree read from boo about aronis.

[farside22]

What 180 degree read?

I'd really like that explained, too.

He's scummy as hell. Your defending him in the way you have makes me think he must be town; otherwise your behaviour is completely inexplicable.

Could you define meta for me, please? Because I don't think it means what you think it means. Not that I know what you think it means from your postings here.

Meta in regards to how a player plays.
I'm saying what I see when I've played with aronis as far as people that pushed his lynch.
That's not meta on aronis that's looking at games and seeing if it's the same situation.

Example dv point reads town I have nothing from reck or Flubber based on saying nothing and I see you wanting to vote.

The 180 is you called him town in that post you voted me. Is he scum again or is he sk?

You keep pushing me defending him where I'm looking at things from a different prospective, which you've ignored.
Your the one bringing up meta and his role.
That's all you sweetie.

Are you going to really sit there and say you've never questioned a wagon on a player that you've seen lynched as town repeatedly?

[farside22]

i think the farside wagon is well-intentioned (from boo) but inaccurate

Et to bruta

[farside22]

1). The wagon on aronis went quickly
2) you stated you were not town reading everyone on the wagon but still pushing the wagon
3) you attacked aronis role prove above
4) I don't do indepth meta research, you know this from our previous game.

1. The wagon stalled at four. I never joined it. I questioned him to find out what he was thinking; this is what you objected to from me. Should I not have questioned him? What was wrong with that, exactly?

2. I'm not scumreading them either. I feel a bit hinky about Flubber and Reck isn't posting content; I don't have reads there. The other two I have as town so far.

3. Of course I attacked his role. YOU semi-attacked Marquis's role by complaining that a) I was feeding him reasons for choosing it (proven false) and b) pointing out how it's useful to scum. His role choice is part of reading someone in THIS game. Why are you trying to pretend it's not?

4. You are using NOTHING but meta to defend Aronis so this is completely disingenuous. Talking about what you've seen in previous games IS meta, so stop pretending you don't use it. The only other argument you have boils down to "You're picking on him for choosing the role he chose! OMG, the horror of it."

I'm not wild about the questions you've asked the mod, either. Your questions about discussions before the game looks like nothing but an excuse made for Aronis, who is still not a townread for you, right? And the question about stealing your role is nonsensical too -- if Pine DID steal your role, something I seriously doubt would happen given the roles in this game, you'd have his. It's a swap, remember?

This is not town Farside as I know her. What did you do with her?

Missed this.

1) I never stopped you from asking him questions at all.
2) okay so you are comfortable voting on the wagon then?
3) I used that as a counter point to you. It was wrong soooo...?
4) your whole issue is his role. If not can you link to me what else you find scummy?

[farside22]

1) I never stopped you from asking him questions at all.
2) okay so you are comfortable voting on the wagon then?
3) I used that as a counter point to you. It was wrong soooo...?
4) your whole issue is his role. If not can you link to me what else you find scummy?

Wow, are you actually reading the game, Farside? That's a mighty big post to have missed first time around, lady.

1. Your reaction to my relatively gentle questioning was a lot worse than your reaction to the people who were actually voting Aronis.
2. I'm voting where I want to be. Thanks, though.
3. It's of interest because it feels like you're not really keeping up with the game. Are you?
4. In my ISO, you will see posts directed to Aronis that point out his short answers, two word answers and lack of helpfulness. I can link them for you if reading my ISO is too much work, of course, but there are quite a few of them and I think it would be easier just to read the ISO.

1. Is false. You asked me a question about aronis. I never interrupted you or attacked your question. I just said arnois had foot in mouth issues. That's it.
2. Nice dodge again
3. Yes, are you?
4. You talking about this post because it's the only one I see a short response.
I read this from you which is an opinion I didn't see aronis being antagonist.

[farside22]

jingle and pine lynches are also good ideas

i'm still totally down for a pine lynch

What's the case on Pine?

Pine's still playing?

Sorry I'm getting a bit bitch.

Aronis not coming in does bother me.


I need to think.

[farside22]

Boo:

You have me thinking.
I would play the role strongly and push those who voted for me to find out if there was town or scum motivation.
The reason I started looking at your push was when you pointed to the ability, to me I think scum would push the ability as scum ability that should be lynched regardless of play.
It's hard to see that line of thinking as town but you are saying you expect anyone would know the role has an expiration date. I agree but I don't think anyone would lynch for that reason on day one. So I'm looking at play vs role.

I'm fighting with aronis role picking and how I can't see scum changing after that and this argument with barely a word from aronis. I'm also getting willies from the wagon and the more quiet ones in the game too.

Unvote

Vote: pine

Back to square one for now.

[farside22]

Busy till Saturday.

[farside22]

I'd contribute more if the current topic of discussion didn't bore me. But now you're here, and you're always fun. Yay.

oh please, contain yourself

why would you be particularly bored w/ what's happened so far? i didn't know you were in the habit of signing up for games and then fucking hating them. and before you start mouthing off about how i always scumread you or some bullshit, this doesn't look like friends and enemies so yeah.... there's that

Do I look like I can see the future? It's not my fault if I join an interesting-looking game and the players decide to talk about stuff I don't really feel I can contribute much to.

I wasn't going to "mouth off" to you, I think we've only been in like two games together and I only remember MF&E.

That's a really weak reason and I highly doubt you have an accurate read on me after, what, three posts?

Do you think aronis is scum? Did you think boo was using his role as a reason to lynch him or was it more about what he said this game?

I think the issue that grib has anti is silly. Looks to me anti may have done that to get a reaction to try and read grib better.

[farside22]

There's no cooling down of the discussion at 206

Then bookitty unvotes for 208 where Farside is just going "oops." I don't get why you unvote someone for winning an argument.

I don't get where you are coming from.

[farside22]

Why is Aronis scum again? I've been rereading the thread, and all I came away with was

- aggressiveness (??)
- being Ascetic in general
- short responses that give minimal info
- not being obvious town (this goes back to his role selection)

He's not really scum hunting and i have issues with players that avoid the thread especially if there is a wagon on them.


Jingle: why I read pine as scum is that his post read fake. The short response of why is all you get is one liners from him. When I posted my comment about biting back he made a comment that I thought was a joke but then voted. It was odd comment to make based on what I said and the role does. Then all you get is a omgus comment and interest in the aronis wagon (how convient )

[farside22]

Boo: You are kind of giving me fits with the aronis support but not really supporting it either.

[farside22]

I'm town reading grib.

Boo and jingle: why the scum read?

Scum read: pine, Jake, boo, aronis
In that order of scumminess.

[farside22]

Was it my imagination or did boo ask me for my read of grib then just accuse me of defending him?

[farside22]

Okay. I have a selfish reason for wanting to lynch Aronis. I can't investigate him. All my other scumreads (and I'm playing most of those fairly close to the vest for a reason) I have a shot at catching. Not him.

I don't want the day to end yet because I need a lot more interaction with people. Voting Aronis now makes it less likely I choose right tonight.

I'm also considering having everyone who is willing to do so tell me three names they think are the most likely scum and working from that list. In that case, I'll happily lynch Aronis whenever.

What do you think of Grib, Farside?

1. Bookitty, can you talk me through the thought process leading to your unvote of Farside?
2. I also worry that while you are considering the 'why would town act like this?' question when it comes to Aronis, you're not considering the 'why would scum act like this?' one.

1. I was suspicious of Farside because she was throwing out suspicion on me without ever engaging me. Same with Pine. She showed no curiosity regarding the reasoning nor alignment of the people she was suspecting. She defended Aronis pretty fiercely without having a townread on him. It all wasn't adding up, plus I would think Farside would know why I was pushing the top wagon without calling for more votes on him nor voting him myself. (Hint: I wanted to figure out his alignment for myself for my own role-related reasons and not just go with the flow and lynch the first viable target. I also wanted to get reactions from other people to develop reads there.) She knows my role; everyone does. She wasn't working to get a better read on Aronis herself. She was just attacking my questioning.

The posts just above the one that I unvoted in was the first one that showed me any sign of the

curious

and intelligent scumhunter that I expect from Farside. I unvoted her because of that. In my experience, if you don't at all recognise the playstyle of a person you have pretty extensive personal meta with, it's because they are hiding a power role or they are scum. It couldn't be the first in this game.

She's now back to a similar approach in defending Grib. I don't know just what to make of that.

Please explain yourself boo based on the bolded.

[farside22]

Remember what I said about short answers? I expected more than "I'm townreading Grib" if you were responding to me. Why are you townreading Grib? Your role doesn't depend on keeping your reads and reasons close to the vest, so why are you?

No I'm not playing this not awnsering my questions crap.
How did I defend grib?

[farside22]

Remember what I said about short answers? I expected more than "I'm townreading Grib" if you were responding to me. Why are you townreading Grib? Your role doesn't depend on keeping your reads and reasons close to the vest, so why are you?

No I'm not playing this not awnsering my questions crap.
How did I defend grib?

[farside22]

Calling someone a townread is a defense even if you give no reasons for it. You know that too.

That's bs and you know it.
Players call people town. You sure as shit had no issue taking a town read on you as a compliment.

Defending is putting points against the case, which you want me to do.

As for your read on grib, I dint read everything written. I have ADD issues where I skim and attack things without reading everything.
Pisses people off mostly.
All I recalled from your issues with grib was wording he used which I thought was pretty weak.

As for my reads. Yes I'm scum reading you and aronis.
You think he's scum, goading the wagon but take steps to shift the wagon away from him. Where is the town motive in that?

[farside22]

On a related note, why is Aronis on your scumlist now, Farside? Do you think I'm scum with Aronis? What is your thought process there, please?

Why would scum want your role specifically? That was part of your suspicion of Pine if I recall correctly.

Arnois doesn't hide from wagons. He fights against players and would be in here to tell players who he thought was scum. I also pointed out he is not too busy to post more.

Why are you suddenly defending him?

[farside22]

I feel the need to slam my head in the wall repeatedly.

I'll be back tomorrow for a full analysis with explaination.

[farside22]

I have a big post planned and I keep getting interferenace from others.

I can do a short version but I think most won't listen or don't pay attention. Monday is a better day for me as long as I don't get called into work

[farside22]

I have a big post planned and I keep getting interferenace from others.

I can do a short version but I think most won't listen or don't pay attention. Monday is a better day for me as long as I don't get called into work

Deadline is paused pending replacement of Grib, so you can take your time.

Out of game interference or in-game interference? If the latter, what do you mean?

Out of game. My son, my family, ect.

Short pat are easy, longer post, grabbing links and quotes take time.

While I'm thinking briefly, boo when you were talking about aronis role did you take into consideration the universal back up role?

[farside22]

Boo: how did I stop you from questioning aronis? You asked me a question and I responded is how the whole argument started from my prospective.

Arnois: I get the reason you are getting run up is crap in your book and the boo feelings, but doing nothing if your town doesn't help the game. I had issues with boo pushing your role as a reason to lynch you knowing there is a backup in the game.

[farside22]

VOTE: viomi

sucks to be wrong

Why are you voting for viomi?

[farside22]

I'm in catch up and phone posting so this is just some random notes.
I like vio and his entrance. There is some things I noted from boo he didn't mention like how she says I stopped her from question aronis and called me out for defending grib spot. The fact she doesn't like having the role in the game and wants to lynch it but doesn't think about the back up role.

This is my reason for scum reading pine.

Why is Aronis scum again? I've been rereading the thread, and all I came away with was

- aggressiveness (??)
- being Ascetic in general
- short responses that give minimal info
- not being obvious town (this goes back to his role selection)

He's not really scum hunting and i have issues with players that avoid the thread especially if there is a wagon on them.


Jingle: why I read pine as scum is that his post read fake. The short response of why is all you get is one liners from him. When I posted my comment about biting back he made a comment that I thought was a joke but then voted. It was odd comment to make based on what I said and the role does. Then all you get is a omgus comment and interest in the aronis wagon (how convient )

[farside22]

Blek I posted and forgot to add I had to run. Work calls.

[farside22]

Vio: I don't recall anything from anti.

Vote: boo

[farside22]

Marquis: Vote Boo, I promise to have a case together tomorrow (even if I have to kick my hubby in the shins and steal the computer away)

I would appriecate any hammer that may happen to at least wait. I'm not going to push too hard on the wait since I could just aim at Boo tonight but I didn't really trust Pine and BB hasn't really said anything exciting thus far. Don't trust Arnois and I feel the interaction between Boo and me in regards to Aronis is just weird for how it got there. I think I've said this about 3 times but I never stopped or told her not to ask questions about Arnois and the whole hem and haw aspect of wanting to lynch but not wanting to lynch.

EPWOP: Looking at the player you replaced and saying their actions is scummy, is not a scum fucking tell.

[farside22]

viomi is experienced enough to know what the amished tell is. viomi-scum would most likely avoid it. and the amished tell as of late is 1) inaccurate and 2) almost always applies to newer scumplayers on the chance it's correct. it is a null point.

viomi IS scumhunting (even if her angles are unpleasant) and you can't expect someone with a wagon this large to not try and spend a significant amount of time on the defensive

your reasons are self-fulfilling and a cop out. who are your other scumreads.

pedit @ farside i'm not voting one of my largest townreads. nobody else is going to either. try another.

@ boo why would viomi scum target you? you're a general townread voting her slot and the threat of an attack as scum being construed as omgus is too strong. it doesn't make sense for scum to do that, but more sense for town to do so. i know when i'm town the first thing i do is iso my predecessor and see who's voting me. i see town!viomi as more likely to see you're voting her, trying to figure out why, and [for reasons i disagree with] thinking you're scum taking further discussion of it into account

Fine.

Vote: aronis

We'll discuss boo.

@boo: I'm in a sense a vig. I shot people and since I'm scum reading pine spot and he's scum wouldn't bennifit him to steal my role before I shot to save himself or any scum buddy?
This isn't rocket science.

[farside22]

This aTe from boo is rediculously over the top. 2 people expressed a scum read on her and now she's acting like its the end of the world.
No one else has expressed interest in her.
Frankly the whole thing will just lead people to not scum read her and I'll i see is why would scum ask to be lynched counter arguments.

Bleck

[farside22]

The hubby asked me to go with him this morning to the doc.

I'm currently in the car on the phone.
Fun (sarcasm with bouncing while typing)

How about
Ouch
Ugh hit my head.

How about I say I will target one on bb, aronis or boo. Keep it wifom for scum.
I think bb scum will take my role and all this Wifom is probably unnecessary.

[farside22]

I hope that makes sense this is hard to do when you start getting car sick

[farside22]

Yea I'm crap out of time.

The too short don't have time for more, is that kitty's reads are a stretch. Her scum read on vio is for wording, which is not a scum tell. Accusing vio of trying to misreprent the wagon lynch, which anyone with a fucking brain could read the rules and the fact she has been talking about lynching aronis because he can't be checked but doesn't lynch him and it's not till I mention the back up role she protects aronis who has done shit all under the attack.

Lynch arnois or kitty results are scum in my view.

[farside22]

Hun you realize I do as a mod, lynches like that. It's not that uncommon in my world.
What your not telling me is why that is scummy?
I didn't read Everything because I am now bowling here, but I don't see any advantage to being wrong about the rules here. If she's never done something like that as you sa, how does she know something like that or even suggest the idea.
Things like that don't come from no where.

[farside22]

Sadly, none of them are as bad as you so I probably won't get hammered... I'll just get auto-lynched by deadline.

You're seriously telling me you don't understand why a scum at L-1 would say that? You see no advantage for scum in making town think that they will be auto-lynched anyway without any need for town to check in later?

-headdesk-

No.

People check things typically.

[farside22]

Let me rephrase. I would recheck that rule.

[farside22]

You have read no one but me and vio think your scum right?

[farside22]

Let me ask you a question boo.
Are you telling me that the people who have no issue with vio lynch and no one on the lynch that is riding low under the radar does not read more scummy then vio to you?

[farside22]

You know I tend to think more about under the radar play as scum.
I'm a bit surprised you don't.

I don't want a no lynch either.
No matter how I feel about it. I'll be around to think.

[farside22]

1. I was thinking how you played in mafia with a twist day 1. I tend to think about my play and what see see a lot coming from scum.

2. Yea
3. Yea
4. Meh. I've seen players say it before. It doesn't really mean much to me.

[farside22]

There is 5 hours left. I'm heading home now. If no one else is around I'll just hammer when I get home.
I don't see anyone pushing anyone else.

Vio: anything you want to say?

[farside22]

Sigh

Vote: vio

Bb, anti, aronis, boo scum in this group.

[farside22]

Jingle: please explain the town read on boo?

All I saw with boo is pushing weak case for weak reason.

Reck is not a stupid person. I don't get why he didn't use his ability night 1.

I'm going to think about what is best.

[farside22]

okay so i thought about a few things but I need to know something because maybe it is just me.

Do people trust/think boo and reck are town? I had a horrified moment when I was thinking of a plan but in intales trusting both players.

I think i trust reck less for not using his ability but that's a bit wtf moment in my head.

I do like the idea of the investigate with the group idea because if kitty and reck scum together would eventual tie their hands (well at least kitty, not so much reck).

just mulling over some other thoughts.

[farside22]

mod: LA/V till Saturday. Sorry I just got a bit of RL things that hit all at once.

[farside22]

I'm just half reading things. I was thinking kitty should do her investigation for night 1. I think reck is bs'ing and would like him checked out. If not him, one of the less vocal and more useless roles of anti or Flubber

[farside22]

I can explain why I think doing last night would be better then tonight.
Scum or sk can change actions tonight based on how people are reading them. I could give examples of what I mean but it helps scum more.

[farside22]

What are your reads right now, Farside?

Scum: Arnois, anti and reck

Paranoid: boo
Null: Flubber

Rest are town reads.

As for my thought on night one I just figure narrowing down people more.
Here is why.

We know shi bg reck and dv gave him the vest. There is only one dead and based on the set up I can't see anything else that would suggest only one dead.
Bb claimed to be rb, he didn't use his ability.
Jingle, kitty checked.

Sorry I'm tired so if this reads a bit confusioning, that is why.

Anyways based on that, jingle could be scum that didn't do the kill (I don't think so just a devil's advocate moment)
But based on town reads and narrowing down those that I'm scum reading is check null read or scum read based and narrow down sk/scum.
Arnois scum I would pick anti or reck to check based on a few things (mostly think one is the sk) if arnois flips sI I'd look at Flubber do to null read from him.

[farside22]

I still have a concern looking back of an arnois boo scum team. I still don't get boo's attack on me from day one and then backing off her scum read there.

Vote: aronis

If aronis is scum I want kitty checked.

[farside22]

Thinking about this game I'm seeing this narrowed down to anti, Flubber and marquis.

Boo what are you results?

[farside22]

Vote: anti

[farside22]

I'm going to just give my thoughts this far.

I had some concern with the idea of boo being Rolf to track vda from night 1. I didn't really see a point to tracking dead scum in my view.
It's part why I suspect that spot.

Bb looks like he took marquis role last night, curious why he picked there.

[farside22]

Actually since marquis isn't cleared I endorse him using the theif ability to steal from boo

[farside22]

3. Victor will not be telling you who he blocked unless you're at least a 10th level necromancer.

no, but he

will

be telling

you

once we secure shiidaji's guarantee of compliance

I was talking about the convo with marquis.

I think the role boo has is valuable. If scum or sk target you, then marquis stealing makes sense.
The reason I have no issue with doing that is marquis is not cleared by any means. I'm forcing a choice by saying he takes it. Scum/sk may kill you and if marquis is neither scum or sk someone may kill him leaving the pool harder to win for scum or sk basedon what we have.

[farside22]

I had some concern with the idea of boo being Rolf to track vda from night 1.

What does this mean, please? Can you provide an example of it?

I do not know what you mean by this. I think it's autocorrect gone wild.

Are you saying you suspect my slot or Marquis's slot for the VDA suggestion, Farside?

It was auto correct gone wild.

I was saying I don't trust marquis for suggesting to track vda.

Not sure why you questioned my marquis steal or why you trust him.

[farside22]

Based on what is known.

Bb claimed block and no cc. Can't be sk or scum based on action
Jingle tracked night 1 by boo, went no where. Confirmed not sk, could be scum I doubt this.
Boo: I had aronis/boo scum team since day 1. Arnois flip makes me reasses reads.
Anti: tracked to reck. Asked reck to check him. If anti was a sk he would be happy to have innocent results from reck. Kill from sk makes no sense here.
Shi: said would block between reck and boo, based on deaths from night 2 more likely dead bg on boo.
Me: I'm town
Dv: gave shi bp, this would leave uphill battle doing so as either scum or sk.

POE leaves marquis and Flubber.

Marquis suggest tracking vda which doesn't help town

How him stealing helps town.

POE deteroriates if town based on what is known. If scum or sk by stealing from boo puts target on his back

[farside22]

It was pretty hard to trust you boo while your defending arnois and calling him scummy in the same breath.

Just saying.

[farside22]

And bluntly put every olive branch you tried to offer to me came with what felt like poison

[farside22]

Boo: I don't want to argue with you. If you want to talk after the game about this or the dead thread I'll be happy to.
From my prospective all I felt was you attacking me from the word go about things that did not happen. I didn't consider role just who I was scum reading.

As for investigation. I didn't suspect jingle so that didn't really mean anything to me.
I was a bit suspicious of reck just for him saying he didn't check anyone. I just could not wrap my head around a player who says come get means doesn't use their role.

[farside22]

I'm not scum.

[farside22]

i love you quilly

farside tracking vda could have gotten us notmafs by way of rb/kill target, but then molla claimed rb'd which i didn't expect for some reason and while i thought there was a good chance vda was the one to perform n1 kill, others thought it wasn't worth it

I don't see how the info helps town narrow the pool and with less people to check, net higher results for finding sk or scum.

[farside22]

Bb is pretty much my strongest town read based on what is known.
I think dv is town, I had a paranoid moment about him as a sk but I'm going to bottle it up and see what he had to say.

Flubber and marquis are the ones I question the most.
Flubber has been all but invisible.
Marquis wanting to track dead scum really read as trying to mislead town to do useless busy work

[farside22]

I'm leaning marquis as sk because of his leading the tracker in a useless way act. Plus the encryptor pick from the start, I don't think the ability is as strong but I know many do.
I think the interaction between anti and marquis didn't read scum/scum.

Flubber hasn't been pushed by anti, I don't recall if vda said anything towards the spot.

[farside22]

Oh and switching with a vengeful vanilla.....seriously why?

[farside22]

My gut tells me the more I think the better I should

Vote: marquis

I'm a bit concerned with bb's entrance today but I can say if rb he isn't the sk.

[farside22]

Here is my issue with marquis pick.
I said he should pick tracker because he was uncleared and he had no issue putting a target on his back.
But today he doesn't do that instead using wifom to talk benefits of the choice.

Also only one scum read. That shows inside info.
This is more hard to explain but the best I can do is give an example.
When I played mafia vs wolf with town. I caught the scum by noting he was wolf hunting over scum hunting.
This case marquis isn't analysising wagons, interaction or trying to break the game.
He is at best limping along

[farside22]

In short I think marquis is the sk and Flubber is scum.

[farside22]

Whatever.
No one seems to care about my oppinion anyways.

[farside22]

I don't mind lynching marquis. His last two posts come off as desperate not to be scumread. Ill nominate molla for second scum read because I keep forgetting he's in the game.

Do you really think bb is scum or sk.
If so explain the rb claim from him from you pov?

[farside22]

*puts money down that marquis is SK*
*wishes for money bets allowed*

[farside22]

Damn.
I thought giving the bp to shi was a good move and hard to imagine the sk fighting through that.
Gg dv.