Mini 1657 — Taylor Swift UPick — Game Over

[LucianRoy]

I knew she was trouble when she walked in.

VOTE: Antihero

I've got a blank space here, so I'll write

your

name.

[LucianRoy]

VOTE: LucianRoy

Why did you vote for the only unconfirmed player?

His name was at the top of the player list, and he hadn't confirmed yet.
I thought it was ironic, so I voted it.

[LucianRoy]

WE ARE HATED ON D1

there's also another aspect to our role that should be apparent very soon:

vote: The Bulge

Good to know. I guess I'll take your word for it, for now.

What, don't tell me, you're a hated voteless?

[LucianRoy]

Do you listen to taylor swift?

I thought that was a prerequisite for joining this game? Lol.

• it's okay, we don't discriminate against non-believers!

[LucianRoy]

Lucian: Read on Espeonage?

I'm personally not a fan of questioning double voters. It seems too soon to be asking about specifics of a player's role imo.
Right now, we know EP has a double vote, and he's hated. Let's not let the mafia know much more than that. Desire to see role information this early is only slightly scummy.
Slight unsubstantial scum-read on Espeonage for bad questioning, but, for a whole reason, it's only worth maybe half a vote.

I still kind of want to vote it, though.
VOTE: Espeonage

[LucianRoy]

VOTE: LucianRoy

Why did you vote for the only unconfirmed player?

Hey ho, good point.

Picking on someone who hasn't even showed up and not confirmed to the game?

I remember you, Lucian, accusing someone of scum for voting for someone who hasn't even showed up in the game yet.

Hypocrisy much?

It's okay when I do it. Lol.
You know how much of a hypocrite I am Soren. When I played as conf. town with a guard-role, I ran that game like a dictatorship by forcing people's reads, and then killing them for giving me bad reads. However, in a 5 scum game, with an sk, we ended on day four.

No, but seriously, in the game where I voted her because of voting lurkers, I read that vote as a slip when he showed up just after she voted him for that divine reason of not posting in the thread.
In her case, she was trying to bait out the lurkers. My vote's just an RVS.
Her appearance in game also threw me off. She usually votes her friends because they know it's just a joke, but not in that case.

[LucianRoy]

I almost town-read Soren because I think he scum-reads me.
It's weird how that works.

[LucianRoy]

Right now, we know EP has a double vote, and he's hated. Let's not let the mafia know much more than that. Desire to see role information this early is only slightly scummy.

why, specifically, do you think Esp's question is more likely to come from scum than town? I don't find it telling either way.

As town, I see no real benefit in knowing the specifics of your role. Specifically, your double-voter role.
Esp wants to know if your double vote will be in effect tomorrow as well. I, however, don't really see the benefit in knowing that

today

.
You see what I'm sayin'?

[LucianRoy]

As town, I see no real benefit in knowing the specifics of your role. Specifically, your double-voter role.
Esp wants to know if your double vote will be in effect tomorrow as well. I, however, don't really see the benefit in knowing that today.

do you think having that information on the table is explicitly anti-town? if so, why?

I think that having the information of whether or not you'll be able to make a double vote tomorrow would put the scum at an advantage with their kill options tonight. The town does not need this information because your votes would be aligned with ours anyway; it doesn't matter if you have one vote or two to me, but it certainly might to scum. That is, since I currently read you as town.

In other words, I love information, in moderation. I've witnessed first hand what happens to games with "information overloads." There is also a degree in which the town should keep the scum in the dark. Revealing information to town, by use of the thread, also means you reveal it to scum. There are some things better left unknown as town, and where our knowledge fails, speculation will suffice.

Critical information that could determine the death of a scum-member is usually pro-town. Information regarding a town aligned gambit-role for instance, is not.

[LucianRoy]

Is it enough for you to vote for Esp, Lucian?

For now, yes. I think it's a decent place to put a vote, despite a partially theoretical reason.

[LucianRoy]

VOTE: LucianRoy

Why did you vote for the only unconfirmed player?

Hey ho, good point.

Picking on someone who hasn't even showed up and not confirmed to the game?

I remember you, Lucian, accusing someone of scum for voting for someone who hasn't even showed up in the game yet.

Hypocrisy much?

It's okay when I do it. Lol.
You know how much of a hypocrite I am Soren. When I played as conf. town with a guard-role, I ran that game like a dictatorship by forcing people's reads, and then killing them for giving me bad reads. However, in a 5 scum game, with an sk, we ended on day four.

No, but seriously, in the game where I voted her because of voting lurkers, I read that vote as a slip when he showed up just after she voted him for that divine reason of not posting in the thread.
In her case, she was trying to bait out the lurkers. My vote's just an RVS.
Her appearance in game also threw me off. She usually votes her friends because they know it's just a joke, but not in that case.

Double standards.

What makes you think it's okay for you to do it?

It was a joke, and our reasons are different, as stated above.

[LucianRoy]

You said kill instead of lynch?

...we are not going to get along...

And why?

a few things

it feels like the posts are padded with obvious crap that isn't really NECESSARY but he just kind of throws in there for filler and to look good. a couple examples of this:
[Post 59 "Let's not let the mafia know much more than that. Desire to see role information this early is only slightly scummy."]
[Post 67 "In other words, I love information, in moderation. I've witnessed first hand what happens to games with "information overloads." There is also a degree in which the town should keep the scum in the dark. Revealing information to town, by use of the thread, also means you reveal it to scum. There are some things better left unknown as town, and where our knowledge fails, speculation will suffice."]

also feels like he's leaning too hard on certainty on things that shouldn't COMPLETELY be there. perfect example of what i'm talking about: ["Right now, we know EP has a double vote, and he's hated."] we KNOW he's hated? how? newbs are usually more skeptical than this and he seems to be taking metal sonic's role too much at face value.

I was explaining my reasoning, and answering questions, but if you rather I didn't, then I guess I don't have to.
I don't really have a reason to not take it at face value. As Esp mentioned, hated seems like a suitable counter-balance for a double-voter.
Here's a question: what reason do you have to suspect EP of not being hated? Since you seem find me scummy for believing him.

[LucianRoy]

Critical information that could determine the death of a scum-member is usually pro-town. Information regarding a town aligned gambit-role for instance, is not.

I don't particularly have a problem with your explanation, but I disagree Esp asking that question is scum motivated. I could just as easily see it coming from town who thinks it's a better idea for me to full claim. I don't see a reason I should full claim here, but a lot of town players think it's a better idea to have information like this on the table as opposed to hiding it.

do you have any scum reads at this point?

Slight read on Esp.
Slightly stronger read on Anti.
And the weirdest read on Elyse.

[LucianRoy]

Wait, why do I have two votes?

[LucianRoy]

Slightly stronger read on Anti.
And the weirdest read on Elyse.

elaborate on both of these?

p-edit: pretty sure that's a VC error and that he forgot to take away Empking's vote on Esp

Anti tried to paint me as scum for taking your claim at face value, and his other reason was because I like to thoroughly explain myself.

It's a really weird read on Elyse. It's hard to describe. It's like if the game was a person, or group of people/ good friends chatting with one another, Elyse is the awkward person who chimes in on obvious or minute details. She hasn't even said much at that. I look for people who are outsiders, and things that make them stick out from the general crowd on day1. Sometimes it's scum-indicative, sometimes it isn't.
It's basically a back-up read. I'm not really going to pursue it because it isn't exactly grounded in anything except my perception of that person in relation to the current state of the game.

[LucianRoy]

I'm actually considering moving my vote back to antihero.
I'll wait for a response first.

[LucianRoy]

I'm townreading EP. I like their posts and usually I can't read hydras for shit so yay. Soren also gives off a townvibe. I don't really have scumreads yet though.

I think someone asking LR for his read on Espeo, followed by him giving it and then voting Espeo seems a little off. Any time someone has to be prompted to make a vote is scummy to me. I don't think Anti's point that he seems too eager to believe EP holds much weight but I see where he's coming from and agree that LR does seem to post filler sometimes.

But then again, LR's read on me, as strange as it is, does seem rather genuine.

@Empking
Why are you townreading Espeonage?

After answering empking's question, I realized my reason was kind of worth a vote. Even if it was only a barely decent reason.

[LucianRoy]

Why are there so many votes on Not_Mafia?

[LucianRoy]

It gets surprisingly quiet here at night.
Is anybody here?

[LucianRoy]

Meta reading LucianRoy, I'm leaning scum because of how he explains himself more than trying to scum hunt.

VOTE: LucianRoy

Soren, you gotta be kiddin' me. The last time I scum-read you, I ended up forcing a cop claim from you day 1. But you, on the other hand, were actually playing scummy. I entered the game late in the phase, and needed a snap decision. Unfortunately, forcing a cop claim is just about the worst thing you could do day-one. So, when I play a town-game, you read me scum, and when you play a town-game, I read you as scum. This has never worked out for either of us. By this logic, since you actually appear town to me right know, should I be reading you scum?

[LucianRoy]

Lost steam for Espeonage.
I'd much rather vote anti, but I actually want him to post and respond first.

[LucianRoy]

I was trying to make a point that meta reads never work for either of us. Ever.

[LucianRoy]

It's still really quiet during the night.
NM is uk/GMT, but is everyone else EST?

[LucianRoy]

Bookitty might be scum.
I still town-read Soren, despite his vote on me.

If I had to call a team, it'd be Bookitty and Elyse together. Maybe antihero, but he's not even here, so call that a long shot.

The only reason I think it's a little weird is because, from my point of view, Bookitty voted me for my read on Elyse, Soren stacked his vote, and once people saw the shift, Elyse jumped at the first post she thought looked relatively scummy from me. Now Bookitty is going after Soren partly due to him questioning Antihero, and partly because of him sheeping her vote.

First of all, it's kind of contradictory to vote someone who sheeped your vote for an entirely different reason, and I did notice the OMGUS earlier. I thought the OMGUS vote was only slightly strange, but I didn't bring it up because I deemed it to be RVS playfulness.

I don't even know why Boo is going after Soren. They seem like unsubstantial reasons to me. He's asking questions, something he usually does whether he's one alignment or the other. Also, her read on us being suspicious due to our interactions is probably due to us being friends. There are buddies, and then there are buddies.

Speaking of interactions, Soren, you said something about looking over my posts earlier. Any fruit on the vine?

[LucianRoy]

Oh, why am I still voting Esp...

UNVOTE: Espeonage

Probably going to vote one of the names I mentioned above. Soon.

[LucianRoy]

That Aristophanes guy should vote somebody.
Om too.

[LucianRoy]

That Aristophanes guy should vote somebody.
Om too.

who do u think i should vote

We could play hot-potato with Antihero, and see what happens.
But, if he ends up getting replaced since he hasn't posted anything to further my scumread, then you should vote Bookitty.

[LucianRoy]

That sounds like a perfectly fine choice for the time being.
VOTE: Bookitty

[LucianRoy]

<snip>
do you have any scum reads at this point?

Slight read on Esp.
Slightly stronger read on Anti.
And the weirdest read on Elyse.

Wait, what kind of reads do you have on these guys?
I get that you think Anti scummy, right?

Was ESP a scum read too or a town read?

[Okay, so it was a scum read. What changed this, other than losing steam?]
Also, I don't think you ever elaborated on that read.
You kinda explained what your "weird read" was, but never said which alignment it was being attributed to.

Um, Ep asked for my scum reads. *see quoted posts* All of those are scum-reads. Esp was a scum read with the entire question thing, but then EP kind of talked me out of it. Also, he's inactive. You should read.

Your vote on Soren is understandable, but I still town-read him.
He's just like that.

[LucianRoy]

Slightly stronger read on Anti.
And the weirdest read on Elyse.

elaborate on both of these?

p-edit: pretty sure that's a VC error and that he forgot to take away Empking's vote on Esp

Anti tried to paint me as scum for taking your claim at face value, and his other reason was because I like to thoroughly explain myself.

It's a really weird read on Elyse. It's hard to describe. It's like if the game was a person, or group of people/ good friends chatting with one another, Elyse is the awkward person who chimes in on obvious or minute details. She hasn't even said much at that. I look for people who are outsiders, and things that make them stick out from the general crowd on day1. Sometimes it's scum-indicative, sometimes it isn't.
It's basically a back-up read. I'm not really going to pursue it because it isn't exactly grounded in anything except my perception of that person in relation to the current state of the game.

[LucianRoy]

That was then, but this is now.

Also, why not use that logic for lynching Boo right now?
I already have three scumreads.
Anti
Boo
Elyse

All three of them appear to be connected in someway or another, and none of them have voted for each other.

[LucianRoy]

Oh, except in RVS. Anti made a vote on Boo, but whateve.

[LucianRoy]

@Aristo In regards to scum "blending in," that's kind of wine-ish, but it is rooted in a common strategy.
Sorry, I thought you didn't read my post so I brought it up without elaboration.

pedit: What do you mean? When you scumread people, don't you make logical connections with the other people you scumread? If you want to out scum, you have to find those connections early so they don't disappear later. I connected all the people I currently scumread for different reasons because it was simple, and seemed like a simple thing to do. You don't need a scum flip to "confirm" one of them as scum in order to form cohesive scum reads on the others. Plus, I'm trying to lynch one of my reads right now, if they flip scum, then the rest will be easy.

Well, if it seems like a stretch, then you might want to blame it on nearly half the roster having less posts than the mod. I don't have a ton to go at the moment, and we aren't making a ton of progress.

[LucianRoy]

Not the point I was trying to make.
This ties into my 152 post.

[LucianRoy]

"The only reason I think it's a little weird is because, from my point of view, Bookitty voted me for my read on Elyse, Soren stacked his vote, and once people saw the shift, Elyse jumped at the first post she thought looked relatively scummy from me. Now Bookitty is going after Soren partly due to him questioning Antihero, and partly because of him sheeping her vote."

Boo Kitty is also currently voting my town-read Soren. I didn't like the vote Elyse made on me after Bookitty and Soren both voted.
Antihero RVS voted Bookitty. Elyse is still the strange piece in this puzzle, but the slight defense that Boo gave on Elyse seems to fit.
Boo and Elyse are relatively active, (compared to most people), and I've seen minimal interaction between them except for when I voted Elyse. Boo hadn't even commented on Elyse until I voted her. And Elyse has barely commented on Bookitty at all. They've almost avoided each other.

Also, NM is probably town.

[LucianRoy]

@Aristo

, my scum reads day one are weird.
If one of them flips scum, I might pursue the others, that being the logical thing to do.
If one of the flips scum, I might not scum read the others as much.

Really, what I'm trying to do is to link together scumminess in order for our chances of lynching scum being higher. I've found connections among three people, and I scum read all three of them. The odds of lynching scum increase this way as well.

[LucianRoy]

Also, NM is probably town.

gonna need this one explained thx

Boo voted him. I scumread boo. Boo OMGUS voted him at that.
Plus, there was a giant train earlier. The likelihood that one of those people are scum is most likely.
He also voted ESP when we saw the strange question.

The only thing kind of scummy is the fact that he has no scumreads... I think.
Or at least, he certainly hasn't posted them.

[LucianRoy]

Whoops, ye "If one flips town, I might not scum read the others as much."

My reasoning is kind of hard to grasp, I suppose, but I think it makes sense.

[LucianRoy]

Yo, Marquis, I'll be a little V/LA for the next 3-5 days.

I'll probably still post, though. If I can.

• noted! and thanks for using the user control panel to set v/la; it definitely makes my job easier.

[LucianRoy]

Connecting three people on day one as scum together when like half the game isn't active is ridiculous. Your "links" between us can apply to over half of the players in this game. Your stances seem pretty coincidental with who is scumreading you and who isn't. I don't even understand why you're scumreading Bookitty. Her vote on Soren? Or solely her interactions (or lack thereof) with me? Neither is a good reason since Soren's latest posts have been bad and I haven't flipped scum so using associative tells is pointless.

It doesn't change the fact that I scumread you.
Also, mutual scumreads are normal.
My reads started as singular things. I grouped them together because they made sense that way.
I still read Soren as town.
I read bookitty on both of the things you mentioned. She reads Soren as scum, and she slightly defended you when I gave my "weirdness" read on you.
You actually said it was a viable read. I don't know what qualm she had with it. She only mentioned you when I gave that read, and stated she thought you were town in lieu of my read.

[LucianRoy]

okay but
by himself hes definitely not radiating towniness
if you stop thinking in connections and start thinking individually your reads might make more sense
i understand your efforts but this isnt going to get u anymore that bragging rights at this point in the game

Enh, I'm not really looking for bragging rights, but I do think it's easier to group reads together/ based of other's interactions.
What I really want to see is his scumreads. Those should either dissuade or strengthen my read.

[LucianRoy]

vote: Aris

there's a lot of weak questions that don't really lead anywhere. most of his pushes have been on relatively easy targets (Soren, LR) and the Soren push was directly in response to Bookitty asking him who he thought was scummy (as opposed to directly pushing Soren himself). plus he keeps WK'ing people without explaining why he thinks they're town, which is a textbook scum play when they want an easy way to gain town credit without actually being involved in the discussion.

I also don't get what the point of the first paragraph of 164 is. it feels more like he's trying to get me to buy into the Bookitty/Soren shitstorm that's going on as opposed to asking about anything that's alignment indicative. Bookitty is town for generally being proactive and making strong pushes on people - I haven't put too much thought into it but MS also agrees with me there.

To me it sounds like he needs to get his head in the game. I don't know if I should scum read him for his bad questions + lack of contribution.
However, his posts did sound a little off in the short chat we had.

[LucianRoy]

Spoiler:

yo Bookitty, can you do me a favor and look through Soren's ISO in this game?

I did that. I didn't glean a lot from it, because it's pretty obviously one of the first games he played here. It's pretty jam-packed with newbie questions or questions intended to look newbie, which I agree is not the same situation as in this game. Soren is asking more pointed questions here while still maintaining all innocence and disavowing any agenda with those questions:

What do you make of all those votes on you anti?

I didn't like this because Antihero hasn't actually posted much in this game. No one has explained their vote on him very well. His vote is on LucianRoy, whom Soren was voting earlier for "meta" reasons that apparently both of them now agree were not very strong. LucianRoy is clearly not immune to OMGUS since he is scumreading two people currently on his wagon and one who was; it seems a little out of place for him to resolutely resist the same OMGUS urge where Soren is concerned.

I don't know why there was a need to tell us that you love all of us. Especially for the first post of the game.

And then proceeds with a OMGUS vote?

This was interesting because I was voting LucianRoy at the time. It's like Soren is only interested in asking questions among the people who were voting LucianRoy. Soren also says he just wanted to see what I would say -- again, not owning the suspicion that is pretty clear in the question imo.

It's not just the questions for me, though I watch for that more since Farside pointed out it is one of her scumhunting tools. (Yes, I shamelessly borrow from other players.) Soren hasn't had any strong views -- in fact, he sheeped me onto LucianRoy and then immediately backed off his own vote without unvoting. Soren eventually unvotes and says this:

After going over some of your posts again, I didn't really put much thought when I voted for you. I was mainly influenced by other people's reasons for voting for you.

I see what looks to me to be inexpert distancing between LucianRoy and Soren. LucianRoy is playing it a bit better, but the whole interaction is off because Soren backs off far too quickly. It's also possible LucianRoy-scum is buddying Soren-town, but I'm not so confident there.

My one caveat is that it could be due to the two of them being friends from previous games. Interactions can be a little odd in those cases; the problem I have with just chalking it up to that is the meta discussion between the two, which doesn't seem particularly friendly at first.

@Endless Possibilities: Do you think that Soren is typically pretty wishy-washy on his own opinions or generally easily led? Do you have experience of him as town in a completed game? I read this:

Mini 1650: Greatest Idea Mafia

and Soren seemed a lot more forceful in that as town. His questions were much more pointed toward alignment and less busy-seeming. I don't see much other meta, but if you have it, I'll read it.

I can read Soren like a book, and I'm pretty sure he's town.
His vote on me actually makes him look town in my eyes. It was a pretty weak vote, but if he pursued it, then I'd be a little worried.
But truthfully, if Soren were scum, I don't think he'd ever attempt a vote on me. That's kind of a meta principle on his part, but it's also because we've known each other for quite some time.
Soren's not the greatest early game. He probably needs to get his bearings in a game before he makes headway.

[LucianRoy]

I feel like Om is just not really paying much attention to the game and sheeping votes from those who he reads as town.

that may or may not be partly what im doing
im still not in this game 100% so im wading a bit until i find something truly worth investigating

Investigating.
Hmmm...

[LucianRoy]

LucianRoy: Why do you think Soren is town, please?

I know Soren.
We've played 20+ games together, and he's even modded a game I've been in.
He knows how I play, and I know how he plays.

[LucianRoy]

would anyone else be up for flashlynching Anti if he goes another 48 hours without doing anything? I doubt this is just a case of him being busy given he's posting elsewhere.

Maybe. I'm still trying to figure out LucianRoy right now.

I really hate the lurk-to-victory tactic, though, and I've seen it pretty recently from him.

Do you know if he prefers playing scum or town, EP?

I'm on hiatus.
I'd be more active if I could, but I can't.
I like playing town from a challenge standpoint, but scum from a fun standpoint.

[LucianRoy]

Ugh, I thought that last post was directed entirely at me.

[LucianRoy]

Okay, Soren can be town I guess. I think scum would be a lot more careful about sheeping (or less obvious) when scumreading someone else for doing the same.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: LucianRoy

I really would like an answer to my question. It can't be the reason I just gave, though, because that wasn't applicable when I asked it originally.

But yeah, I really know Soren as a player.
If anyone can read him, it's me.

[LucianRoy]

Also, OOOOHHHHH:

VOTE: Antihero

It's a Set-up!

I'd be perfectly fine with either an Aris lynch, since it might help me get a better read on Bookitty, but I scum-read Anti anyway. So wth. Go for it.

[LucianRoy]

Alrighty, that was quick.
Now we see the flip.

I'm going to be happy if he flips mafia.
Best RVS ever.

[LucianRoy]

Emp is town even though his reads are incorrect.
We have Elyse as a mutual scum-read, I like that, but he disagrees with my town read, Soren, at the same time.
Weird.

I'm also perfectly fine with Aristo lynch today, and if anti isn't going to be around, then that's probably what's going to happen.

Also, as implied, If Bookitty thinks Anti is scum, then why isn't she voting him?
Maybe I'm interpreting the "happy scumday" post incorrectly...

Also, Soren, what are your reads?

[LucianRoy]

Also, as implied, If Bookitty thinks Anti is scum, then why isn't she voting him?
Maybe I'm interpreting the "happy scumday" post incorrectly...

Your scumday is the date on which you first joined the site. Antihero's scumday was March 30, the day I wished him a happy scumday. It's got nothing to do with my opinion of his alignment in this game.

Ah, I see, thank you.
On that note, what is your opinion of his alignment?
I'm betting you might not have the clearest opinion due to him basically not being in the game.
If that's true, or if it isn't, then what's your opinion of the train that formed on him? (Who are the scum riding it)?

[LucianRoy]

Emp is town even though his reads are incorrect.
We have Elyse as a mutual scum-read, I like that, but he disagrees with my town read, Soren, at the same time.
Weird.

I'm also perfectly fine with Aristo lynch today, and if anti isn't going to be around, then that's probably what's going to happen.

Also, as implied, If Bookitty thinks Anti is scum, then why isn't she voting him?
Maybe I'm interpreting the "happy scumday" post incorrectly...

Also, Soren, what are your reads?

Ah Lucian I miss you bb.

Elyse - scum read. Her earlier posts where a mix of fluff and content. But lately her posts are just iffy. She hasn't contributed much and hasn't done much townie things either.

Antihero - scum read because of the classic meta read.

Endless - I want to say obvious town read at this point because her voting ability indicates town. However in a previous game this guy claimed investigative role and I assumed he was town almost indubitably. But as it turns out, he was werewolf cop. So while I lean town on endless at this moment, I will open myself to doubt about her. Also I'm not sure what to make of her apparent "I can read Soren so well based on one game!". She went to great lengths to defend me as town against Boo. While I like it, the excessive nature of the defense is rubbing me weird and I'm not sure what to make of it.

Bookitty - if I were to rate her actions I would say something like 20% scum actions and 80% townie actions. So leaning town.

Aris - I'm actually not sure what to make of him at this point. Null read.

And the rest hasn't posted much for me to get a solid read yet

As for you, unsure. Your wordyness naturally makes me lean town, but I know better than to assume someone is town simply based on how much they speak.

I miss you too Soren.

Your read on Elyse is fine, but we'll have to find something to substantiate it more if the town ever pursues it.
The Meta read on Anti was okay for a while, but now he's basically lynch-bait due to not even being here.
EP, who I thought was a guy, seems likely town with the entire hated DV scenario, but I'm more inclined to really take their claim at face value. It just seems likely at the end of the day.

I still don't know about Boo and Aristo.
I thought Aristo said something about catching-up. It hasn't occurred yet.

[LucianRoy]

Wordiness.
I like it.

[LucianRoy]

I provided the link to a game in which Anti lurked and beetlejuiced as scum (beetlejuicing is when you don't post for a while but pop up when your name is mentioned or a wagon starts on you). I actually think EP is pretty town right now, so I was willing to go along with the quicklynch based on my own meta read and Anti's complete lack of anything useful in this thread. I wanted to give him a fair chance to post, but he's squandered even that chance imo.

I feel like Antihero is avoiding this game specifically even with the huge wagon that built up on him. I haven't a clue about his real-life situation, but I don't understand what he's doing here if he is actually town.

I'm pretty sure I indicated I would vote Anti if he didn't show up and post. Just because I don't pile on a wagon or quickhammer doesn't indicate disapproval of that wagon, for the record.

So, despite what sounds like almost igniting this wagon though meta-fuel, you didn't pitch in?
Yet, you say you were fine with it going through?
Okay.
That reminds me of making popcorn and buying candy for movie night, giving it to all your friends, and then going to do something completely different while they enjoy the movie.

[LucianRoy]

Ohh, you were late to the party.
And yes, I read, but it's not like I checked the time-stamps to figure out why you never voted him.
Or even re-read your posts for that matter.
If you read him scum, why didn't you just vote him then and there? You said you were fine with the wagon, why give him more time?

[LucianRoy]

Jeezus, I'm illiterate.

[LucianRoy]

Also, irony.

[LucianRoy]

I just realized that I really do not like KillerJ's vote on Soren; in this current stage in the game especially.

[LucianRoy]

Let's play a perfect town game.

[LucianRoy]

So, not to bring up inconceivable scenarios, but is it possible that the scum team was entirely inactive, and didn't even make a kill?
Naw, I think it'd be better to put faith into the protective rolls.
But still, it makes me wonder...

[LucianRoy]

Probably one of the people who wasn't on anti's train yesterday.

[LucianRoy]

That's an awesome vote.
I really like that vote.
I like that vote so much, that I'm voting with that vote.
VOTE: DarklightA

[LucianRoy]

I find it very strange that the game has split into two "factions" the way it has. In my read-through, while not as thorough as I would have liked, I found that Soren and LR struck me as particularly town. Aristophanes struck me as gut scum—I really really really didn't like his wall posts. Bookitty takes a good second place.

I'll go through player-by-player sometime if I get around to doing so. Till then I'm happy to leave my vote here:
VOTE: Aristophanes

Enters thread, goes for low-hanging fruit that was building momentum.

Is it really a gut scum read anymore? You've stated that his argument was forced and ended with a weak reason to sheep the vote on me.

It's not really that important; it depends on how you define gut read. I guess you could call it a "light read".

After giving reasons on "weak weak statements" as to the real reason of her apparent vote, she goes back on her previous views of it being a gut-read??? Hypocrisy?

It's just that I don't feel like I have enough to be past the initial stage of reads.

Hypocrisy?
Also, scum-blindness.

@Darklight: Why was Aristophanes sheeping me suspicious and Soren's previous sheep wasn't, please?

Point out Soren's sheep to me

Obliviousness to the thread after having said she read it. My bad, "most of it." She at least read the part where Soren and I were town.

It's not the nicest thing I've seen, but it has a different feel to it that Aristophanes' vote. Soren's vote was relatively early in the game, and I myself frequently go through a player that I've previously ignored if someone brings out a vote, especially that early. I don't like that it was done without acknowledging Boo's vote though.

On the other hand Aristophanes' post felt—like I said—forced. It felt like he was fitting the scumread to the player, rather than having any natural analysis.

This just sounds and reads scum to me.

Before I forget (I've forgotten to say something several times already):

@Marquis:

You are absolutely beasting this modding. You also introduced me to a new song! La la, la la la la la...

• Thank you! This is by far my favorite game to mod yet, and I'm glad so many of you appreciate it.

One example of slight, fluffy derailment, but it has mod-acknowledgement, so it's taboo to criticize.
(Please don't martyr me Marquis)

• *insert modkill here* ...

These are some examples.

[LucianRoy]

i call dibs on hammer

Naw man, you should vote while the wagon's ripe.

[LucianRoy]

Endless Possibilities is town.
Pretty sure Elyse is town too.
Not sure about Empking saying he wasn't voting Anti ever, but I'm thinking about it.

These are pinging me:

LucianRoy: "The Meta read on Anti was okay for a while, but now he's basically lynch-bait due to not even being here."

Aristophanes: "I see Anti is pretty close to lynch, but also hasn't been here.
Are these things related or did he do something before disappearing that was scummy?"

I can get the posts for those if needed, but I'm kind of pressed for time just at the moment so if you need them, let me know.

A) Why did you enter the thread with reads on people that weren't even on the wagon? Was this in response to my "vote somebody who wasn't on the train"?
B) Nice cherry picking, but pointing out that someone's lynch-bait, which he definitely was, doesn't really strike me as a scum-ping, (from what you imply).
On top of that, I still ended up voting him, but somehow you didn't.

[LucianRoy]

Bookitty what's your read on ika?

[LucianRoy]

Also, I can prove my town-role from the events last night.
Considering I wasn't roleblocked.

Just thought you might like to know.

[LucianRoy]

It has to do with my role only serving the purpose of early town-confirmation.
Plus, if I get that out of the way, people might follow my vote.
Your bait was taken.

[LucianRoy]

This might tie into why I read you scum.
You seem really eager to learn more about my role.

[LucianRoy]

A) Why did you enter the thread with reads on people that weren't even on the wagon? Was this in response to my "vote somebody who wasn't on the train"?
B) Nice cherry picking, but pointing out that someone's lynch-bait, which he definitely was, doesn't really strike me as a scum-ping, (from what you imply).
On top of that, I still ended up voting him, but somehow you didn't.

A: I gave town reads on the people whose entry to the Anti wagon made them more town than others. Why is that a problem for you?

B: I didn't need to, did I? By your own statements earlier, I had pushed his wagon more than just about anyone else and I already had the argument with you about why I was waiting for him to post something. Also, I don't care if you aren't pinged by your own posts, shockingly enough.

A) It is not a problem for me, but it's not what I expected.
B) It would've been better if you did. Shoulda, woulda, coulda.

[LucianRoy]

Why is it spurious?

I have a scumread on LucianRoy. I also have it from Soren that LR is a "town leader" and I see him trying to take on that role here without having earned it yesterday. You pick someone seemingly at random who was off-wagon and LucianRoy sheeps you immediately follows up with a case on that slot. It's weird and offputting.

I questioned the vote at first, but after I actually looked at it, I realized its viability. I iso'd DLA and made a quick sketch on why they were scummy. Not really a case in my mind.
Earning town leader? No need. It'll become apparent in due time.
Even though I like the Darklight wagon, the Aristo wagon seems like a decent second option at the moment. I might switch my vote later due to some people I strongly town-read driving it. That is, if nothing is fruitful from the DLA votes.
Also, you're scumreading someone who RVS voted anti, drove his train because he tried to omgus me, and still ended up on his lynch train at the end of the day.

[LucianRoy]

If only DLA wasn't on the Aristo wagon.
I read KJ as ultra-town right now.
Eh, still pinning my vote on DLA.

[LucianRoy]

Also, I really want to see Espeonage and Soren vote.
Maybe Aristo, for the heck of it.
Ika called dibs on da hammer for DLA.
I think Boo should be voting me; if she isn't, I'm going to scumread her more.

[LucianRoy]

Alright, how is Ika anything other than a null, and why do you read him town for wanting to hammer you?
I'm only a tad confused.

[LucianRoy]

It would've been better if you did. Shoulda, woulda, coulda.

Why would it have been better if I did? He got lynched anyway, right?

Why should I be voting you if you soft-claimed? I'm not incapable of making or admitting a mistake and I honestly don't care if you scumread me, so solicit votes elsewhere, please.

I'm trying to reread in between working on writing deadlines. Still think Aristo is scummy, but if I don't come up with anything better I'm going to sheep my strongest townread. No points for guessing who that is

So your read changed. Okay.
I guess my soft-claim proved two things, no, make that three.
Not telling anyone what they are, ever. Or at least, not right now.
Boo backed off her read really quickly once I said I could confirm myself, and I haven't even confirmed myself, nor might I need to today.
I mean, DLA just looks scummy for pursuing info from me, but I would truthfully expect a question or two from boo.

[LucianRoy]

Not that I would answer that question.
Don't bother asking.

[LucianRoy]

Aristophanes- Boo thinks he's scummy, DLA wants to lynch him, Endless kind of wanted to lynch him, but ended up on ika. Endless should stack their votes on a different slot, however, for Boo and DLA, not a good combo. KJ is hella town so that's fine.
There is a long-shot possibility that Aristo is some kind of third party role, or dumbtown. I'd almost call jester, but I doubt there would be a role like that in this game. Oh, maybe he's vengeful, naw, that's not plausible. He is either pretty scummy, playing a fairly bad town-game, or gunning for a lynch. I'm leaning dumbtown, personally. His questions directed towards me the other day were just plain bad.
Bookitty- After basically stating I was a strong scum-read, she backed off immediately after I said I could confirm myself. I'm slightly uncertain what to make of this.
Elyse- My scumread kind of wore off... I lean town on her. She's going after DLA for decent reasons at that, plus she was on the anti train yesterday.
Empking- Naw man. Misdirected reads. He has his vote permanently pinned on me, but hasn't done anything to pursue it. I mean, what is he expecting to happen?
Endless Possibilities- Pretty much conf-town.
Espeonage- Disappeared, but I really want to see his vote.
killerjester- Straight up town.
LucianRoy- Town.
Not_Mafia- Leaning town.
ika- Null, but he called the hammer for DLA.
Soren- Town read, unless he makes a vote I'll read as scum. I really want him to vote so I can be certain.
DarkLightA- Pretty darn scummy.

[LucianRoy]

I hate softclaiming so so much.

If I didn't think you were town from your Anti interactions I would run you up so fast.

Soft claiming almost makes sense with my role.
That's all I'm going to say at the moment.

[LucianRoy]

Not that I would answer that question.
Don't bother asking.

Look, either you are confirmable or not. You're not confirmed yet, so I'm willing to wait and see.

You didn't answer MY question, though. Why was it vital that I vote Antihero yesterday for the good of town? I pushed his lynch, I said what I was going to do -- why do you think it was so harmful to town that I didn't vote him? For Pete's sakes, he voted himself. I didn't HAVE to vote him, so why are you on about that?

I wanted to read you town. Your vote on him would've solidified that. Now, I'm not so sure...
You waited too long for something that never happened. He ended up killing himself. Something that I view as thoroughly humiliating; almost the greatest sign of defeat.
I wanted you to spare him of that, and finish it for him. I feel slightly bad that you, and I, drove him to that.

[LucianRoy]

In any case, it was one hell of a move.
He spared one of his buddies from sacrifice by hammering himself.
Very selfish, and selfless, at the same time.

This is why I like to vote irony. It was irony that spurred my RVS vote, and irony that ended his life.

[LucianRoy]

I'm not voting yet because Im not sure, Lucian.

Very well, but it would help immensely if you decided sooner, rather than later.

[LucianRoy]

In my experience scum at the end of the road hammer themselves to deny town that extra sliver of information.

That's somewhat unsportsmanlike. It is, however, a valid move.

[LucianRoy]

Guess.

In my view, it really doesn't look good that you keep pressing this matter.

I've already said what needs to be said.

[LucianRoy]

I agree with Soren, I really do think he's just plain, dumbtowning this game.
Also, third party.
Also, the possibility of Jesters.
Also, hidden abilities and gambit abilities.

Anyhow, he'd be a fairly good candidate for jester in my mind.

Not voting is a terrible option. We have actual substance to go off of today, and tons of scum reads nonetheless.

[LucianRoy]

Meh, I think KJ is right on pressuring Aristo.

VOTE: Aristophanes

I'm holding you to this.
This is a pressure vote. Not a "Oh, I'll place my vote here for the meantime" vote, nor a "depending on his reaction, I'll keep it here" vote.
But I fear that it'll turn into the latter.

I really do find this vote scummy. It really seems like a sheep vote, no, it basically is a sheep vote.
And we all know that Boo is highly critical of sheep votes. In this sense, I dislike the hypocrisy.

Also, I hate the timing of this vote. Only a few posts before, KJ was doubting himself, and factored the nolynch train into consideration.
The scum motivation of voting in this direct moment would be to not allow that train to lose momentum, that is, if Aristo is town, and Boo is scum.

[LucianRoy]

A quick skim of Aristophanes' iso tells me that he's either a busy person or has limited access to a pc, possibly both, thus he hasn't posted much. But when he does post, he contributes by offering his thoughts, tries to understand the line of thoughts behind reads and most importantly, he votes.

One problem I see is the lack of his own reads, he's trying to understand other people's reads more than giving his own reads.

I'd say this analysis is spot on.
I don't really see Aristo's views or lack of views as scumblindness, and his words made him sound like he was genuinely confused.

[LucianRoy]

You realize I was joking in my last post, right?

I can't read sarcasm for shieet.

[LucianRoy]

Okay, LucianRoy. I have a couple things to say.

Drawn on Arrival just ended, allowing me to say something about Ika. He lurks a lot as scum, as that game will attest. Since he replaced in, he hasn't contributed a thing. I'm watching that slot and if he continues this trend, my vote is going there.

What's the scum motivation for pushing Antihero's lynch and then not stepping in to vote him to take the towncred? Was he NOT going to be lynched without my vote? (Hint: he was lynched anyway -- just letting you know.) If I were scum, why wouldn't I jump on that vote to ensure that you would think I was town? Why would I push for his lynch in the first place if I were scum?

What is your deal anyway? It really seems to me that you're trying to push the idea of me as scum without getting your own hands dirty with a vote and without giving reasons that make ANY kind of sense. So what's your major malfunction?

I'd really like to know.

This is the second game I've played with ika, or actually, the first of him not as a hydra...
Oh wait, that game is still in progress. Nvm.
All I can say is, you're partially right, and partially wrong, but I don't think meta reads will help you with that slot.

That's the exact thing that bothers me, and that is exactly why I question your behavior.
If I were playing a ruthless scum-game. I would've immediately seen Anti as a cuttable canon, regardless of his role or ability. I would've painted him as scum early so I could do the exact thing you're doing at the current moment. Using that as a somewhat substitute town-cred. It's like bussing without the actual bus. However, I'd have faith in Anti as well. I'd restrain myself from voting him because I'd believe he'd come back and clear up his case with all the meta on him, and such. So, I wouldn't vote him, but I'd imply him as an option. I wouldn't save him. That's his job, but I wouldn't damn him either.
That's my scumlogic right there.

Also, I'm only slightly uncertain of you as definite scum. I seem to be the only one reading you as such, and that's usually a bad sign.
Thus, why I'm hesitant to vote you. All I'm doing right now is conversing with you to gain a stronger sense of my read.
*

Bzzzrrrt... zap

* I also appear to be malfunctioning. Time for repairs.

[LucianRoy]

And we all know that Boo is highly critical of sheep votes. In this sense, I dislike the hypocrisy.

Can you provide examples of this in general? I objected to Soren's sheep of ME, yes, but this is not true in general. So prove it or stop making sweeping statements that are not true.

So you dislike sheep votes on yourself, but you find it okay to sheep other people.
You pointed out the example I was thinking of yourself.

[LucianRoy]

A quick skim of Aristophanes' iso tells me that he's either a busy person or has limited access to a pc, possibly both, thus he hasn't posted much. But when he does post, he contributes by offering his thoughts, tries to understand the line of thoughts behind reads and most importantly, he votes.

One problem I see is the lack of his own reads, he's trying to understand other people's reads more than giving his own reads.

"Trying" to understand other people's reads is one of the easiest things to fake a scum.

I feel if Aris was town he'd actually look at the wagons, identify the people on them, read the cases each had provided for the wagons, and ask specific questions about things he didn't agree with or understand fully.

"WHY ARE PEOPLE VOTING FOR TAYLOR SWIFT? I DON'T GET IT. CAN SOMEONE POST A CASE FOR ME PLEASE," isn't trying to understand the wagons. It's a lazy attempt to appear sooooo relatable and sooooo town because townies have doubts and are skeptical about things.

AND HE'S DONE IT THREE TIMES!

This is considerable, but I'm still uncertain.

[LucianRoy]

Anti's one #92 post basically sums up an instance of divine BS logic, and I didn't like his RVS on you. Several of my town-reads also supported the wagon that formed on him, so I thought it was in good faith.
I have no idea what Anti's meta is. Nor do I really wish to. I don't think I read the games you posted, so I didn't really have external knowledge of him outside of this game.
You keep bringing up the subject of town cred like you believe that I think I have some, when really, I don't even know. The question is, do I deserve town cred for my vote? That's not for me to decide.
My read on Aristo changed when scummy people started to vote him. It's leaving me doubting its viability. Yesterday he looked like lynch bait people wanted to snuff out, today they're actually doing it.

Heed your own words. How do you think KJ feels when you sheep him? I'm sure he doesn't care, but that's beside the point.

[LucianRoy]

I don't care what your read on me is, LucianRoy, except as it relates to your own alignment. I don't care what KillerJester thinks either, because I think he's right that votes building up on Aristo are the only way to get him to post in this game. If he has an issue with it, I'm sure Killer can speak for himself.

You said the same "lynchbait" thing about Antihero, actually, without unvoting him. Why don't you want Aristo pressured? Wouldn't his flip still give you a better idea about my alignment, like yesterday?

I feel the empathy.
No, I wouldn't learn a lot from his flip. If he flips town, everyone would only pound their heads against a wall.
If, however, he ends up flipping mafia scum, then I'd almost drop my scum read on DLA, and lose a ton of suspicion for your slot.

It's just that, I think he'll flip town, or third party. More likely third party.

[LucianRoy]

Alright. This better be good.

[LucianRoy]

My first game onsite. Drixx + Copper + Deathfisaro. Walls and walls and walls of text. Lol.

[LucianRoy]

Shit, I haven't posted yet today...
I'll do that right soon.

How long is soon?

[LucianRoy]

woof woof

[LucianRoy]

Making a table does not constitute making a case or even providing information. I'll bet I mentioned

EndlessPossibilities

more than 20 times and I haven't thought they were scum once during this game.

Sorry, brain meltdown. I hate writing deadlines.

That's strange, who is SmurfYou?

[LucianRoy]

woof woof

Woof woof

Woof woof woof

[LucianRoy]

The thing that has me in a knot was that trade-off between DLA and Boo about vote viability. It's throwing me for a loop, but it has me suspicious of it simultaneously.
I now really want to lynch DLA more than ever.

KJ, if history is bound to repeat itself, and this is another anti situation, I wouldn't recommend voting Aristo. I'm currently assuming the worst. He's not coming back to post. I really doubt it.

We have a mutual scum-read on DLA. He's a decent candidate for today's lynch. After all, he's actually here.

We got a little lucky with the anti situation. I don't think our luck is strong on an Aristo lynch.

[LucianRoy]

Boo'a votes are bad, and I think she's super scummy.
I'm really glad Esp popped in to pursue her.
I liked their little joust of reads. It showed me that Esp is actually quite town.
I'm still pinning my vote on DLA doe.
However, if Esp can continue this conversation with Boo, and maintain a very strong scum read on her, I'll be tempted to vote her.

[LucianRoy]

2 more votes, 2 more votes

Does he want to hammer himself?
Please don't tell me everyone in this game has a deathwish.

[LucianRoy]

He's going to return to the thread and kill himself?
Just like anti?

Should I intervene?
Is this really our plan?

[LucianRoy]

No one should hammer before a claim, or an inquisition.
But seriously, what is the case for this guy? It's literally all meta!
He's going to return to the thread, see that there's a bunch of votes on him, and he'll try to defend himself... from his meta? From things he did in the past?
I honestly thought we'd make more substantial votes today with a scum-flip on day one, but I guess even that can't save this town.

[LucianRoy]

I don't even know.

[LucianRoy]

The votes on ika are completely insubstantial, and they should be withdrawn.
At least, let him talk before someone jumps the gun.
I can only see this ending badly.
The DLA train went nowhere today.
Backup plan:

VOTE: Bookitty

This was inevitable. Everything led up to this.

[LucianRoy]

Espeonage, have you caught up in the thread?

[LucianRoy]

Ok, you know that I softclaimed, right?
If you don't, you should at least go back and read that part.
I forget the post number.

[LucianRoy]

@LR
The Anti wagon was based entirely on meta too. Why didn't you have a problem with it then?

DLA is still scum though. I wouldn't be heartbroken over an ika/Aris lynch but DLA is for real scum. Just read his posts.

Nah, I voted him mostly because of this:

You said kill instead of lynch?

...we are not going to get along...

And why?

a few things

it feels like the posts are padded with obvious crap that isn't really NECESSARY but he just kind of throws in there for filler and to look good. a couple examples of this:
[Post 59 "Let's not let the mafia know much more than that. Desire to see role information this early is only slightly scummy."]
[Post 67 "In other words, I love information, in moderation. I've witnessed first hand what happens to games with "information overloads." There is also a degree in which the town should keep the scum in the dark. Revealing information to town, by use of the thread, also means you reveal it to scum. There are some things better left unknown as town, and where our knowledge fails, speculation will suffice."]

also feels like he's leaning too hard on certainty on things that shouldn't COMPLETELY be there. perfect example of what i'm talking about: ["Right now, we know EP has a double vote, and he's hated."] we KNOW he's hated? how? newbs are usually more skeptical than this and he seems to be taking metal sonic's role too much at face value.

I really hated this post.

[LucianRoy]

woof woof

Woof woof

[LucianRoy]

K Elyse is town.

Yeah, I was feeling that more and more as the day progressed.

[LucianRoy]

Lucian you failed to answer my questions when you were online.

Sorry, my router is going a little haywire.

[LucianRoy]

I might have wanted to lynch you if Anti flipped town because the evidence against him was strong and you could have easily been WK'ing him. But him flipping scum makes you look really bad.

But let me get this straight: You are criticizing me for voting for you due to associations with flipped scum because I didn't mention you yesterday?

Was I somehow supposed to know Anti would flip scum and bring it up as a possibility? You are spouting nonsense and trying to discredit Not_Mafia, who is asking important questions.

My voting isn't moving today.

Your vote felt opportunistic. And it bothers me that you'd see me as scummy regardless of his flip. That would give you all the more reason to mention it yesterday for the record.

You make a lot of strange accusations.

[LucianRoy]

Please don't hammer ika. I have reason to believe he is town.

Mmmhhhhhmmmm...

[LucianRoy]

Man, I don't like giant cases. They're arduous to respond to...

[LucianRoy]

i mean i already parial claimed anyone can put 2 and 2 together to see what im saying

This isn't 2+2.
(hehe)

[LucianRoy]

But yeah, you're not even claiming correctly when you're about to be hammered by Elyse.

[LucianRoy]

I have some papers to write tonight, I might not be able to read today.
We'll see...
I have a bit of catching up to do, but from the looks of it, both ika and DLA claimed???
No idea how this happened. The tracker claim... awww man... it really sounds like some kind of longshot to frame ika...
I really hope that the people voting a claimed tracker know what they're doing.
Vote change in a future post probable.

[LucianRoy]

Oh, I guess he hasn't claimed yet judging by those lyrics.
Yeah, he needs to claim. It's plain anti-town at this point.

[LucianRoy]

Wait, that makes no sense.

[LucianRoy]

Oh wait, wifom

[LucianRoy]

I still haven't read, but was ika roleblocked by any chance?

[LucianRoy]

Oh wait, that's a stupid question unless he admitted it himself.

[LucianRoy]

im 99% sure where dla is going with this and i can confirm what he might be implying

(im at school and glancing)

You don't know shit. Give me a full claim or I'll ensure that you go back to L-1 if that would help you at all.

what that your tracker and you tracked me and that i targeted you? its not that hard for me to see that

im not claiming outright yet. but its possible i am the reason for /that/

His role is an ability role, and he was notified that he pinged-off a tracker/ it was obvious to him that he had done that. DLA is trying to force a full claim from him, and he's unwilling because he has a vital town role?

I'm not a tracker.

If the next post you post doesn't contain a full claim I will vote you.

post

in seriousness your not refuting the fact i targeted you which confirms what i am thinking

Confirms that he traced your action? Yes, but knowing that would imply your role led you to this knowledge, so your role either intercepts or identifies actions from other players.

@Ika: Do you support a DarkLightA lynch at this time?

yes, it should be obvious what im claiming by this point with the lack of NK right now...

thats why im not full claiming theres more info that i have that will only help scums. if you want the info you can lych my ass for it

Your role also affected the night kill? That would imply a blocking role of some sort, but your previous posts lead me to believe you have an informative role, considering you identified that he traced you last night.

If you're a doc and protected someone then we know that person is town.

If you're a roleblocker and roleblocked someone then that person is scum.

How does that not help town?

you think too basic is all im going to say w/o going into why. your question is right but the answer you will get is horribly anti-town

What if he's a combo of both? I'm thinking some kind of Jail keeper with possible informative powers, and yet, he says his action last night would only make him look anti-town.
I guess jk-ing a tracker is pretty anti-town, but he says his actions affected the night kill, so is he implying that DLA is a scum tracker? Why on Earth would this be anti town then?

Speculation on trying to crack this case with his role, but I really hope he isn't baiting us to give him his claim.

[LucianRoy]

There's just a lot of imbalance with what he's trying to say.
He says his role did *blank* but also does *blank*. Then you go on to say that it's more complex than what we're thinking, and criticize us for not be able to figure out what apparently you've spelled out with your bread crumbs. Either you have one extremely great role, or your scum.

If you think you can provoke a scum lynch today, then you should claim and give it to us straight.

[LucianRoy]

Ika's salty.

Also, Für Elyse, lol.

[LucianRoy]

Aris is kind of irrelevant considering either Ika or DLA is probably scum.
I'm half expecting Ika to return and tell us he scum reads DLA.

[LucianRoy]

Did I say half expecting? I meant positively expecting.
Ika called the hammer on his train.
He wants DLA's flip.

[LucianRoy]

I haven't read.

[LucianRoy]

@Soren, Redacted is in reference to information withheld.

I forgot to send my night action...

Still have a bit of the thread to read, but if everybody else comes to the consensus that Aristo is scum, I won't deprive the town of a vote in a decent direction.

Also, no mass claiming, there's the possibility of one extra scum being in this game. I haven't seen anything that I'd deem third-party kills.

[LucianRoy]

Lucian do you still think that Bookitty is scum?

Also I don't understand your soft claim at all. Given the nature of the roles, scum could claim their role and gain some town cred as the role itself might not scream scum.

Your soft claim is weird because I get the feeling that you did it just because you felt like it? Weird. I'm not used to seeing you claim/soft claim until it is necessary such as preventing a mislynch on yourself.

My claim is weird because my role is weird. Enh, not exactly weird, but rudimentary would best describe it. It doesn't have a lot of uses, so I'm trying to use it to it's full effect... then I forgot to send my night action...
I also wanted to full claim today, but now I'm not so sure.

If there's still any extreme cases of doubt about my alignment, I could just full claim, but it won't be as fully substantiated as I would have liked.

[LucianRoy]

Also I miss playing with you on MAL.

I miss it too...

[LucianRoy]

Alrighty, I'll cut to the chase. I want to see Aristo claim as much as everyone else.
I was opposed to mass claiming the other day, but, depending on Aristo's claim, we could possibly popcorn one.
If his claim fits with the set-up, we need to determine a counter-wagon. A mass-claim might be the most useful at that point.

VOTE: Aristophantes

Wait until he claims before hammering, and wait until he claims before considering a massclaim.

[LucianRoy]

So, that put's him at L-1.
We just need somebody to post intent to speed this along.

[LucianRoy]

LR will be claiming last, naturally.

Why?

UNVOTE:

[LucianRoy]

Actually I want to claim now as I feel it's in our best interest.

I'm Town Police Chief. This means I order players to investigate a 3rd party., and they receive results the following night. N1 I told Bookitty to cop ika but was informed she rejected my advances. Not sure what that implies, I might have been RB'd or maybe Bookitty is scum. I also received fried chicken. N2 I told someone to cop Espeonage but I won't say who to protect the integrity of the results which they should receive tonight. You know who you are.

I crumbed both these actions at the start of each day.

Oh, that's why.

[LucianRoy]

We were so close to a perfect game. So close...
Then Elyse had to die. lol.

[LucianRoy]

I understand. I can't believe scum tried to target me N1, (from what I presume).
I'm not that juicy of a kill.

[LucianRoy]

We were so close to a perfect game. So close...
Then Elyse had to die. lol.

it is still a perfect game cause we lynched correctly.

I'm talkin' zero town deaths perfect.

[LucianRoy]

I'm talkin' zero town deaths,

and

at least one scum death every phase.
The perfect game.

[LucianRoy]

Pretty sure Lucian is a fruit vendor. I mean I have fried chicken but I don't think it does anything.

Righto. I'm town fried chicken vendor. I'm basically a fruit vendor, but with tasty fried chicken.
My song is Taylor's cover of "Drops of Jupiter."

Speaking of songs, what's Empking's?

And yes, I sent fried chicken to KJ night one.

[LucianRoy]

Has EP full claimed?

[LucianRoy]

No, they haven't.

I'm putting them at L-1 because I want to hear this.

VOTE: Endless Possibilities

A scum double voter. Pretty crazy.
This is why I want to hear the claim.

[LucianRoy]

Woof woof

[LucianRoy]

Don't hammer Endless yet, we need a full claim.
On the previous page, KJ outlines the plans we're taking to find the last scum.

I want Empking, Soren, and Not_Mafia to all target DLA with their respective abilities.
Aristophanes needs to be on Empking.
Lucian can do whatever the fuck he wants.
I'll order someone of my choosing to investigate Soren/Not_Mafia but I'll probably die before that happens.

If Aristophanes lives, then Empking is town and lynch Espeonage unless my N2 target instructs you otherwise.
If Aristophanes is the only death, that's not enough to confirm Empking-scum, but my target from N2 should be able to tell you Espeonage's alignment and I trust you can narrow it down from there.
If Aristophanes and another player both die, lynch Empking.

If the game still isn't over after D4 lynch then Bookitty is scum.

[LucianRoy]

Anticipation.

[LucianRoy]

Hi Soren!

[LucianRoy]

I'm getting concerned that killerjester is scum by POE. I'd like to have that cleared first, that would be day 7.

We may also be dealing with a godfather—not really that unlikely IMO. In that case Aristophanes (who I've been ordered to investigate tonight) will be our key to solving it, assuming he's not a godfather too...

He should target players each night, announcing his target. The rest use their night action on me. When he dies, we lynch the target. This solves the game.

We'll probably have to solve this by means other than investigation, but following the cop is a possible choice...

It's probably Aris? Might an Asetic fucking with us

Does anyone find it strange that Ika's role specifically dropped the information that there was a town faith healer? His role also stated he knew who all the scum were, but they couldn't see him since he was traitor. Would this specifically indicate that the remaining healer would potentially be town-aligned?

Would you download a car?

No, it's probably a scam anyway.

[LucianRoy]

Whoops, let me rephrase that first line of my questions: "another faith healer." My follow-up question is if it would indicate their town.

[LucianRoy]

Lol, scum-mason.
I don't think that exists.

[LucianRoy]

Correspondences in votes is what will probably uncover the last scum...
Looking in the past might reveal who the scum are based off their votes for certain players.
Unfortunately, I don't have the time to analyse the thread in this fashion.

[LucianRoy]

Why was there no kill? Third party?
Or a scum role unable to kill people?

Are there any third party roles that come to mind considering this set-up, other than survivor?

[LucianRoy]

Let's wait a while. We can use this time to talk and mull things over.

[LucianRoy]

Also, does No-Lynch count as a person in regards to voting? Is there a hammer associated with this, or does it have to be a unanimous decision?

[LucianRoy]

Sticking with the words DLA spoke at the very beginning of this phase, KJ should indeed order DLA to inspect KJ.

Also, just to check, but Empking is confirmed bodyguard by DLA, right?

[LucianRoy]

Masons should target only masons from now on.

p-edit: Niiiiccccceeeee.

[LucianRoy]

I'll send some fried chicken to Aristo tonight, not like it really means anything.

[LucianRoy]

Thank you so much for hosting such a marvelous game Marquis! I truly enjoyed the theme, and you diligence to the game was faultless.

Between you and me, you're pretty much my favorite mod on Mafiascum.

Good Game everyone!

[LucianRoy]

I like the irony tell I developed. Even if it was completely abstract, it still kind of worked.

Soren, I'm glad I defended you early game from people who doubted you were town. We literally have a mutual connection where we

know

when the other is town.

KJ, so much win. I had a strong town-read on you from the very start, and I knew you were the person I needed to give chicken to N1. You'd back me up if I ever needed to full claim. After I partial claimed, you discouraged against me full claiming. Is it because you knew my role day two? If so, you deserve some kind of trophy. You also led the town
Boo kitty played a really strong town-game as well. We clashed at times because our styles are pretty different, and she scum-read my Soren TR, but I digress. Playing with her was fantastically fun.

But seriously, none of this would've ever worked out if we didn't lynch anti day one.
Best RVS ever.

Aristo, you handled things well even though you knew you were in the frying pan. It was only a matter of time...