Mini 1657 — Taylor Swift UPick — Game Over

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WE ARE HATED ON D1

there's also another aspect to our role that should be apparent very soon:

vote: The Bulge

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it should be obvious who is who in this hydra, but if it's not, I'll sign with -pieguyn, -p, or smth similar. the above post was also pieguyn.

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What, don't tell me, you're a hated voteless?

not quite, but you have the right idea

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Spoiler: bookitty

VOTE: antihero

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soren is town. discuss

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Because he spotted and commented on your shameless buddying?

kind of, but there's a lot more to it than that

I just finished a game where Soren was scum and his play there consisted of a lot of filler questions that had nothing to do with the game, and a distinct lack of stances. this is the exact opposite of what he's doing in this game. I don't particularly agree with either of his lines of questioning so far, but they are still questions that serve to accomplish a lot more than the ones he asked in his scum game.

it's not a particularly strong read given it's only page fucking 2, but I haven't minded anything he's done so far.

I don't think any of Anti's posts so far are telling either way. do you disagree?

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I don't. I think Anti is still in RVS and acting as I'd expect for that phase.

I think Soren made the first step toward pulling us out of RVS. I tend to find that townish, so I think Soren is definitely lean-town for it. I don't know Soren at all, though. (Soren, do you prefer being called he or she?)

do you have any other reads at this point?

Huh, I don't remember playing with you?

-pieguyn

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How comes you ignored this Endless?

didn't see it

I don't see a particularly good reason to answer that question at this juncture. I might later, though.

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Lucian: Read on Espeonage?

what is *your* read on Espeonage?

Right now, we know EP has a double vote, and he's hated. Let's not let the mafia know much more than that. Desire to see role information this early is only slightly scummy.

why, specifically, do you think Esp's question is more likely to come from scum than town? I don't find it telling either way.

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As town, I see no real benefit in knowing the specifics of your role. Specifically, your double-voter role.
Esp wants to know if your double vote will be in effect tomorrow as well. I, however, don't really see the benefit in knowing that today.

do you think having that information on the table is explicitly anti-town? if so, why?

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Anti, are you scum?

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Critical information that could determine the death of a scum-member is usually pro-town. Information regarding a town aligned gambit-role for instance, is not.

I don't particularly have a problem with your explanation, but I disagree Esp asking that question is scum motivated. I could just as easily see it coming from town who thinks it's a better idea for me to full claim. I don't see a reason I should full claim here, but a lot of town players think it's a better idea to have information like this on the table as opposed to hiding it.

do you have any scum reads at this point?

Espeonage is my main town read, so I should probably:

Unvote
Vote: Antihero

y

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Soren is town as shit, Bookitty is probably town.

don't like Aris' one post. it feels like textbook scum asking questions here and there and sitting on the sidelines, but not taking any firm stances

don't like Anti, namely for the last paragraph of 92. everyone in the game appears to be taking my claim at face value, so I don't understand the point in singling LR out; saying it's scummy bc "newbs are paranoid" feels way too shallow.

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[ skip to next votecount ]

oh, MS also has Bookitty as town, but that's the only read he's given me so far

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Slightly stronger read on Anti.
And the weirdest read on Elyse.

elaborate on both of these?

p-edit: pretty sure that's a VC error and that he forgot to take away Empking's vote on Esp

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pple who vote bookitty must be kitty-haters

VOTE: om

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I haven't analyzed LR's recent posts in depth, but one thing I wanna point out immediately: I agree with the assessment that LR is posting a lot of stuff that appears to be filler, but I disagree that the way he's doing it is scummy. despite posting a lot of obvious stuff, there isn't a lack of stances or original content in his posts. if I scum read him, it would be for other reasons.

also I'm busy as hell recently with a group project that's basically impossible to complete -.-

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I don't like your "trying to look busy" questions that don't seem designed to elicit anything even remotely alignment indicative.

yo Bookitty, can you do me a favor and look through Soren's ISO in this game?

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=60450

I'm asking this bc what you're pointing out is what he did when he was scum, but it's not what he's doing here.

I agree that he's asking some questions that appear to be irrelevant, but I disagree that it comes off as forced or scummy. I think it makes sense from a POV of town who is eager to play the game, so they constantly scan the thread looking for any single thing to ask about. it's something I've done before as town and, if you look through his ISO, it's really pretty obvious how different the quality of his questions are from there to here.

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vote: Aris

there's a lot of weak questions that don't really lead anywhere. most of his pushes have been on relatively easy targets (Soren, LR) and the Soren push was directly in response to Bookitty asking him who he thought was scummy (as opposed to directly pushing Soren himself). plus he keeps WK'ing people without explaining why he thinks they're town, which is a textbook scum play when they want an easy way to gain town credit without actually being involved in the discussion.

I also don't get what the point of the first paragraph of 164 is. it feels more like he's trying to get me to buy into the Bookitty/Soren shitstorm that's going on as opposed to asking about anything that's alignment indicative. Bookitty is town for generally being proactive and making strong pushes on people - I haven't put too much thought into it but MS also agrees with me there.

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Emp might be town. still don't particularly like Anti.

@Anti:

what do you think about Aris so far? if you're interested in people asking a bunch of filler questions, I think you should direct your attention here.

I still don't have a read on LR. will think more about it later

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im p sure hes town

walk me through why?

did you have a read on elyse?

nope. nothing she's posted so far has been telling either way.

do you have a read on Aris?

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I did that. I didn't glean a lot from it, because it's pretty obviously one of the first games he played here. It's pretty jam-packed with newbie questions or questions intended to look newbie, which I agree is not the same situation as in this game.

Soren claims he has over 40 games completed. I don't think that's what he was going for there; I think he was just asking as much stuff as he could to look busy and not realizing nothing he was asking had any town motivation.

@Endless Possibilities: Do you think that Soren is typically pretty wishy-washy on his own opinions or generally easily led? Do you have experience of him as town in a completed game? I read this:

Mini 1650: Greatest Idea Mafia

and Soren seemed a lot more forceful in that as town. His questions were much more pointed toward alignment and less busy-seeming. I don't see much other meta, but if you have it, I'll read it.

mm, I looked through this and the first thing I noticed is that in that game, he wasn't following closely at the start of the game (he says this in 268). it's usually easier to step back and take a fully objective view of the game when you already have a body of work of content to go off of, as opposed to seeing everything unfold firsthand.

also in that game, his opening (and his play in general) hardly consisted of any questions, as opposed to him primarily commenting on stuff. it's possible he just took a different approach here, or is having an off game

there's also some other things that I think might be different but haven't looked into it yet: for example, it's possible a lot of people were acting obviously scummy/town in that game, compared to this game which is rather slow (with at least 3 people having practically no content at all). I suppose what I'm saying here is that I don't find a lack of strong scum reads scummy, given my 2nd strongest scum read is fucking Anti just for not doing anything at all besides one somewhat-off-looking push.

besides that, I don't have any experience with town Soren, but I think the differences from his ISO here to the ISO in his scum game are a lot greater than the differences from his ISOs here/this game. I usually don't agree with calling someone scum because of minor differences to their town game, in no small part because I used to (and still am, to some extent) be known for being extremely obvious town as town and I would have that pushed on me a lot whenever I did so much as one thing that was different from any of my town games. this is moreso my method of reading people so make of it what you will.

I didn't like this because Antihero hasn't actually posted much in this game. No one has explained their vote on him very well. His vote is on LucianRoy, whom Soren was voting earlier for "meta" reasons that apparently both of them now agree were not very strong. LucianRoy is clearly not immune to OMGUS since he is scumreading two people currently on his wagon and one who was; it seems a little out of place for him to resolutely resist the same OMGUS urge where Soren is concerned.

I'm still not particularly seeing why this is scummy, explicitly because Anti hasn't posted much. it makes sense to poke at a lurker in order to get them to do shit. there were better questions he could have asked, but I could easily enough see it coming from town.

LR had also declared a town read on me after I started pushing on him (although I never voted him) so I'm not sure what to make of the second point. either way, I don't really think it makes sense as a scum strategy to OMGUS every town player who pressures you, so I don't think it makes sense him not OMGUS'ing Soren would be indicative of Soren scum, either.

This was interesting because I was voting LucianRoy at the time. It's like Soren is only interested in asking questions among the people who were voting LucianRoy. Soren also says he just wanted to see what I would say -- again, not owning the suspicion that is pretty clear in the question imo.

It's not just the questions for me, though I watch for that more since Farside pointed out it is one of her scumhunting tools. (Yes, I shamelessly borrow from other players.) Soren hasn't had any strong views -- in fact, he sheeped me onto LucianRoy and then immediately backed off his own vote without unvoting.

IMO a lack of strong stances isn't particularly scummy. it's either indicative of scum who don't want to fake reads, or town who legitimately don't have any reads and don't see it fit to pretend like they have reads that they really don't. what I find scummy is when people act like they have strong stances, but then don't actually do anything to follow through with them (ex. Aris WK'ing a lot of people who are under pressure but not doing anything to explain why).

in Soren's case, I think it's plausible enough he just doesn't have any strong reads yet. he's either scum who made a push and then didn't feel like continuing with it, or he's town telling the truth about not having a strong read on you and backed off for exactly the reason he said - that he asked the question to see what you would say as opposed to feeling strongly you were scum. either way, I don't think it's inconsistent.

one thing that I noticed when I played with him as scum was that there were basically no stances *at all*, which is kind of similar. I suppose it's not too unreasonable he's stepped up his game as scum to some extent and is more capable of taking stances but is not yet comfortable faking the strong pushes he made in his town game. however, I still think there's more stuff that points to him being town.

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i really think hes trying to help to the best of his abilities

agree to some extent. I've been having a lot of mixed signals about him but outside of a few posts I haven't had much of a problem with what he's done so far. either way I'm about to pass out any second so I'll look more into this later

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So far you've said it was meta (although you've not provided the source links for a meta read), influenced by the other players in the game (suggesting you glossed over Lucian's posts to sheep a wagon you didn't understand), and now based on gut.

Righto boys lynch it with fire.

^add this to the votes I will accept

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I find it weird that no one is commenting on Om's obvious sheeping.

what do you think is alignment indicative about it?

LR struck me as particularly town.

elaborate?

cos I can think of some reasons, but I'd like to know what your reasons are

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would anyone else be up for flashlynching Anti if he goes another 48 hours without doing anything? I doubt this is just a case of him being busy given he's posting elsewhere.

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I really hate the lurk-to-victory tactic, though, and I've seen it pretty recently from him.

Do you know if he prefers playing scum or town, EP?

I would think he lurks as scum because he likes playing town more (this is generally what happens when you get people who lurk as scum but are extremely active as town). that's part of the reason I'm suggesting to flashlynch him :p

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I'm kinda scum reading Om for sheeping.

I don't think it's alignment indicative. sheeping town reads is a viable thing to do when you're behind and don't fully have a handle on the game. why do you think it's more likely to come from scum?

in other news, I have never actually seen scum attempt to bring up multiball and then justify it with "not having any good reads", or any other, similar answer (as opposed to looking like they were trying to consider all possibilities). however, given it's easily fakeable, I don't think this is a particularly good tell.

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I hae some town leans

elaborate?

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I am extremely honoured to have your confidence for this game,

But it has been literally pie posting the entire time (since he told me to "post less")

He shall get back to you shortly

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MetalPie. Tell me who to vote.

I actually don't care if you're scum, you're going to tell me a scum name regardless. I'll get in to this later.

one of {Aris, Anti}

priority is on Aris, in case Anti is just not giving a shit about this game right now for whatever reason, even though his shelf life is rapidly running out

But it has been literally pie posting the entire time (since he told me to "post less")

i retracted that ;w;

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vote: Anti

(L-2)

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Do you have an example of Anti being an active town?

literally any game Anti was in where he was town

2 of my recent games with him:

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=59516
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=58358

also I'm still wondering why you think Om sheeping is more likely to come from scum than town

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I'm not really sure I don't approve the Aristo lynch more given the bad posting and the vanishing act, but I'm okay with this. I want LucianRoy to answer me still too.

to be fair I would guess him not being here is just bc he's V/LA. I think he's scum based on posts, but I don't think him disappearing means anything

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Anti, you scum?

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he's hammered already

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GOD DAMN IT MARQUIS

</3

unvote

I'm not ready for day to end yet.

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pieguyn head of this hydra is Limited Access until Sunday (4/5).

I may or may not post depending on if MS can cover for me in the meantime + I'm pretty exhausted overall right now and will likely spend almost all of my time finishing the impossible group project I alluded to earlier.

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oh, one thing I wanna mention while I'm at least here is that while I don't mind Anti being VLA and not announcing it, I do mind the fact that when he *is* in the game thread he makes posts like 206 with no scum hunting in them. I am 100% in favor of lynching him unless he gets his ass in here and obvtowns it up like he usually does.

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dodge. I'll quote it later

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oh yay. lets get a perfect town game.

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pieguy is out, sonic is here,

we are conftown

and our job today is easy

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no i am loved by everyone

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killer jester is town
boo is town
lucian is town
elyse is town

i am town

soren may be town

that is all

empking is always scummy as whatever alignment

we can lynch darklight a

we can also lynch aris

ika is also lynchable

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VOTE: aristophanes tentatively

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actually no
VOTE: ika

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I like kitties

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All my other games are either more important to me (Team Mafia, My modding game) or they are closer to the end / larger and will be harder to deal with if I get behind.

But don't get me wrong, I'm neglecting other games too.

Town

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town^

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Let's all mourn for TayTay (((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((

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:(((((((((((((((

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pie head does not support an ika lynch today. I'd unvote, but I'm pretty behind and don't know what I'd do with it instead. I should be on on-and-off tomorrow.

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Do you like cake?

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if we lynch more scum corrctly in a row we can win best town performance!

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We were so close to a perfect game. So close...
Then Elyse had to die. lol.

it is still a perfect game cause we lynched correctly.