Mini 1665: Papers, Please Mafia (Game Over)

[Cheetory6]

VOTE: Peacebringer
I'm going to need to see your papers for that replacement, please.

[Cheetory6]

glad to meet you too wrong and cheet-

Quit the smalltalk.
We don't have time for smalltalk in glorious Arstotzka. Where are your damn papers?

Spoiler:

Oh..

[Cheetory6]

ok.
VOTE: Otolia

[Cheetory6]

Why are you voting Otolia?

Top Secret Operation gtfooRVSf.

Cheetory6 has done nothing, his three posts were votes for different users, with very little input.

Almost accurate. I didn't change my vote in my second post.

[Cheetory6]

I won't post or participate

You liar. >:c

*asserts fake confidence in vote*

I don't think it's a coincidence your votes have been on the 2 first real wagon.

Why is voting for wagons this early in the game a bad thing? Talk with me bub.

[Cheetory6]

@Oto: Implying I was being serious.
Get yer stick out of yer ass and answer the actually serious question I asked you -.-

[Cheetory6]

It only took 5 votes for you to actually start being active.

You're taking issue with a VLA person not being active enough?
Eh?

[Cheetory6]

Oh god I have like zero brain activity. Totally missed that it was a future VLA warning.
Otolia being angry at me makes more sense now.

[Cheetory6]

He's still a poo for ignoring my question.
He should stop ignoring my question.
>:c

[Cheetory6]

I should apologize for a joke that I made about something that isn't true?
Are we even playing mafia anymore?

[Cheetory6]

You're actually being offended right now.
Wow.

Is this real.

[Cheetory6]

I'm trying to imagine someone seriously being upset over someone jokingly calling them a liar and being wrong about it.
I'm gonna go with not likely.

[Cheetory6]

Like, your premise for me being a bad person is that I was seriously trying to call into question your integrity to justify my vote.
I've since established that I was kidding and that I wasn't even right about what I was joking about and you're still expecting an apology?
Like.
There's no way you're being real right now. -.-

[Cheetory6]

Kneejerk feeling is scum.
Thinking about it I have no fucking idea why he would act like that as scum or town and now I'm just confused q.q

[Cheetory6]

I have a hard time believing that Otolia was pissed off from interacting with me and was like "IM SO MAD IM GONNA GO WRITE A BIG POST ON WHY DINARE IS SCUMMY".
Lol.

[Cheetory6]

Doesn't that read as fake to you though? Like, when I'm angry, I don't drop the situation and walk away and write some nice and logical arguments as to why someone unrelated is scum.
How does him putting in effort make him look better to you? :/

[Cheetory6]

Is that more of a comment as to you being proud of him as a person or you thinking he's less likely to be scum?

[Cheetory6]

The difference is I have only voted for 2 people. And contributed a little bit more than cheetorys 3 posts, 2 of which only contain votes if I remember correctly. But we have seen a lot more from him now and I am happy.

So the logic is that now that I have more than three posts, I'm not worth voting anymore?
Was it supposed to be a pressure vote or did you genuinely believe that I was such a solid lead that now that I've wormed my way out of the whole "he's not posting" angle, you have literally nothing to pursue right now?
Bleh.
Who would you vote right now and why aren't you voting them?

I particularly dislike people questioning my probity. I don't think it's outrageous to ask that people respect the fact that I'm not using an IRL situation to improve my situation in a game. And all this talk about whether or not I am faking is not helping anyone's situation. If cheetory really wanted the current situation to end, we would just apologize.

Should I speculate about whether or not he is faking right now ?

In any case, out of his 17 posts, 12 have been on the subject at hand. Make of that what you wish.

Firstly, I'm not going to apologize for something that I didn't do.
Secondly, why are you playing the victim card? I made a joke. I've admitted it was a joke. There is literally absolutely no reason for you to be upset about anything that's happened in this game. You continually pushing this angle just looks awfullll and feels a lot more like scum pissed off that they're caught for reasons that they don't like.
Thirdly, wrt the bolded, that would be far more of an attempt at sorting me than whatever the awful softpush at the end of this post is.

How can Otolia's last post be so gross and yet PeaceBringer acknowledging how gross that post is be even grosser

I actually kind of like PB atm. I think him telling someone to claim for an intent to put someone at L-1 is silly, but it doesn't strike me as being as likely for scum to say something like that, or at least not from him specifically from my impression of him so far.

[Cheetory6]

So the logic is that now that I have more than three posts, I'm not worth voting anymore?
Was it supposed to be a pressure vote or did you genuinely believe that I was such a solid lead that now that I've wormed my way out of the whole "he's not posting" angle, you have literally nothing to pursue right now?
Bleh.
Who would you vote right now and why aren't you voting them?

Kop kop kop kop kop kop kop kop kop kop kop kop kop.
VOTE: Kop

[Cheetory6]

No you're not.
Not that you'll notice this because you've been ignoring everything I've been saying.

[Cheetory6]

Really?
Am I like invisible or some shit?

[Cheetory6]

Maybe if I use this font people will start noticing me?

Or maybe this one?

[Cheetory6]

What's stonewalling?

[Cheetory6]

I thought for a second you were saying you weren't going to respond to my question.
And I was about to be sad.
And then I realized that it was the answer to my question.
I need coffee. :c

[Cheetory6]

*awaits dinare's response with bated breath*

[Cheetory6]

I'm like a wizard.
I frikn summoned a dinosaur.

DinareVOtolia seems like it's going to get dumb. Case in point:

If you were actually town, you would be saying when, not if.

Don't even start with this kinda shit. I'll fight you with my brainfists.

He says he is apprehenseive of putting someone at L-2 so early into the game but doesn't explain why and when I'm calling him out on that

What makes this scummy? Walk me through this.

[Cheetory6]

You think a townie would say that?

Probable. I at least think it's a dumb angle to be going after someone for.

[Cheetory6]

Dinare, Otolia and Reck, could I get all of you to take a look at Kop sometime and give me your thoughts there? pls & ty.

[Cheetory6]

(like a reason he is wary of putting someone at L-2 early in the game) and that's scummy because

being clear regarding his opinion on the game is what makes town town

Two questions,
i) What reason would you expect from a response to your question beyond just "I don't want a speedlynch"? I feel like that answer is so obvious that I find it weird you'd even want to ask him about it.
ii) Do you really think that the bolded is necessarily true? Like.. you really think town is more concerned about being clear than scum?

[Cheetory6]

Kop.
I swear to God.

[Cheetory6]

Guys, Kop is officially best wagon 2015.
He's literally just talking about semantics with elusive instead of actually doing anything related to the game and I've already asked him a question about why he's not voting anyone twice before this that he's ignored.
Hop on Kop.

[Cheetory6]

Probably Otolia?

[Cheetory6]

I think there are good reasons to vote Kop vs Otolia right now though, don't you?

[Cheetory6]

I am being so subtle right now.

[Cheetory6]

Spoiler: kop kop kop kopkop kop kop kopkop kop kop kop

The difference is I have only voted for 2 people. And contributed a little bit more than cheetorys 3 posts, 2 of which only contain votes if I remember correctly. But we have seen a lot more from him now and I am happy.

I don't like the fact that we have someone potentially near lynch but refuses to claim, how does that help us make a decision? I mean I'd rather him claim something than potentially lynch a PR.

UNVOTE:

So the logic is that now that I have more than three posts, I'm not worth voting anymore?
Was it supposed to be a pressure vote or did you genuinely believe that I was such a solid lead that now that I've wormed my way out of the whole "he's not posting" angle, you have literally nothing to pursue right now?
Bleh.
Who would you vote right now and why aren't you voting them?

No I wouldn't hammer PB, because I'm not sure of anyone's alignment and while I might dislike or feel "weird vibes" from a player I would feel nervous to get someone close to hammer or claim. What if a town PR is strung up or something? Considering some people haven't posted I'm wary of quick hammers and anything that prevents real content from being produced and also ugh not liking forced claims so early on either. What and why? I've never seen that before in a mafia game at this stage.

My vote on PB wasn't just his anti-RQS - it was his overly long explanation to me and Wrong Song about why he wouldn't participate. Too much protest for not enough meat.

He didn't ask would you hammer him?

So the logic is that now that I have more than three posts, I'm not worth voting anymore?
Was it supposed to be a pressure vote or did you genuinely believe that I was such a solid lead that now that I've wormed my way out of the whole "he's not posting" angle, you have literally nothing to pursue right now?
Bleh.
Who would you vote right now and why aren't you voting them?

Kop kop kop kop kop kop kop kop kop kop kop kop kop.
VOTE: Kop

Kop, after L2 is hammer yes? I mean math and numbers is not my strong suit but that would be hammer so what are you asking here? Or why?

PB, you spend far more time being all "I don't do RQS" then it would have taken you to actually do RQS. Something Shakesperian line here that I forgot. Oh and I'll look into your scum and town meta at some point but I've found that scum usually are less antagonistic.

Otolia, I still don't follow why you mentioned getting a replace during VLA?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I read his post in the sort of if he was on L-2 now would you vote for him and put him at L-1, which isn't a hammer because he'd need another vote. And from reading that post, he is asking would you put him at L-1 not asking you to hammer. Maths isn't my strong suit, but L-2 plus your vote if you would vote for him at that stage would put him one from a lynch.

[Cheetory6]

Sorry I must apologize I didn't realize me asking you why you weren't voting three times now is enough for you to acknowledge that I'm asking you a question.
Why aren't you voting someone?
If you want to vote for Oto or Oka or whoever why are you not?

P-Edit: It's to show that he ignored my question three times.

[Cheetory6]

*frothing*
I need a nap.

[Cheetory6]

Kop.
Talk more about your read on Oto.
Or anyone really.
Let's go with Dinare. What is your read on him and why?

[Cheetory6]

Also, let me know if you need me to use bright bold pink font to get your attention in the future.

[Cheetory6]

Oh and Cheetory is in this game

Proving my point q.q
Talk with me about Kop. What's your read there and why?

In looking into it more, I think his vote is opportunistic and no real concrete reasoning, jumping on the bandwagon in hope that we push him (oto) off a cliff, and he won't get any heat from it.

Why do you think someone whose vote looks opportunistic isn't going to get heat in that case?

Btw I meant to say in regards to Oto that it was less likely to come from scum, not town. A miswording in my typing and my cat just knocked the power out in my room.

If he was prompted to give meta, why is it townish for him to provide meta?
Like, I could get it if he was like "look at these games" without someone asking him to, but that isn't what happened.

I've looked through his ISO, the only sketchy thing I see would be his his lack of use of his vote, which, ehh.... I would need to see more from him before I can go through my thoughts on him.

What do you think about his vote on CO?

[Cheetory6]

I'll talk about my reasons for my Kopvote in a little bit.
I want to finish this line of questioning with him first.

[Cheetory6]

^Ding ding ding.
Tired of Kop ignoring me, so here's a good reason to vote for him that I've been noodling around in my head:
Hito expresses that Chaos looks sketchy in a post.
Kop sees that and then votes for Chaos in his next post and then tries to prod hito towards voting him.
To me, it looks like Kop is trying to lead hito onto someone else in a way that looks fake. Like, trying to convince someone to vote someone else is one thing, but to me it strikes me as being a lot more likely that Kop saw that CO could be pushed as scummy and decided to capitalize on it.
The way he responds to CO's vote as purely OMGUS without trying to probe behind the intentions there doesn't seem like it's coming from someone trying to figure out the game and moreso coming from someone trying to posture to push pressure off of himself and onto CO.

I don't like Otolia's exit-readslist given the positioning of certain people on there seeming weird. WrongSong comes to mind.
I also don't like WrongSong's over the top response to UT/Reck.

Kopwagon is best wagon but there's a lot of good leads right now. Better than most D1s.

[Cheetory6]

eck.
post tonight. sorry.
Have become absorbed with Steven Universe.

[Cheetory6]

I don't like the fact that we have someone potentially near lynch but refuses to claim, how does that help us make a decision? I mean I'd rather him claim something than potentially lynch a PR.

Dinare actually brings up a good point about his statement "What are you going to do if I flip town ?".

If he is town and facing a lynch, it should be when I flip town, not if I flip town.

That alone isn't sitting right with me.

I want to vote for Oka because I don't like his confidence in his argument, what if.

I don't like all of this softpushing on the Otoliawagon. It doesn't really read like town-nervousness about an early lynch, especially given his engagement with elusive about why she's focusing on hammering him. It doesn't feel like he's got any kind of nervous energy with how he's engaging things.
I think his unwillingness to vote there is more based on him being anxious about being seen as putting Otolia to L-1 rather than the actual worry about him getting lynched. It feels driven by him being concerned about how people are perceiving him, which strikes me as much more likely to be coming from scum.


I'm currently feeling pretty strongly that Kop's vote onto ChaosOmega was driven by hito's pressure on him. It comes across less like Kop is trying to find scum and more like Kop is just trying to use CO as a scapegoat to stay alive/keep pressure elsewhere. I also think that he probably finds it easier to votepark on a lurky slot that might not say very much in response to him. [This is also the same reasoning he used to try and jump on me earlygame and he let up pressure when I started getting more active]


I'm also really finding the manner in which Kop is responding things pretty sleazy. I think he's been making a pretty terrible effort to try and engage me on my read and has been using it more as an excuse to frame his COvote in a better light. Like, I say that him calling CO's vote an OMGUS vote is lazy/scummy and his response to that is to ask CO what the purpose of his OMGUS vote is. Like, it just feels like he's trying to do it solely to get me off his case and not because he's actually interested in the answer.

wrtOtolia

:

As the game is progressing he is starting to look a bit more town.

Why?

[Cheetory6]

I can see your argument with Kop trying to get Hito to vote with him, but do you believe that CO's vote is something other than OMGUS? I get the sense that scum-CO screwed up with his Kop vote, and is being quiet hoping we lynch Kop instead.

I believe that CO is a smart player and that even if he was scum, his reasoning would be better than OMGUS. I could get the being quiet angle at the time of when you posted this, and while I guess you could say his engagement from here could be a reaction to you saying this, I just don't really get the impression that CO was intending to lurk the cycle out. I get more of an impression that him as scum would be overcompensating in this game so that I wouldn't get on his case meta-wise. I think his lack of posting earlygame and his naked vote on Kop strikes me as more likely to just be him being slow to get engaged with the game, if that makes sense?
In any case, I'm not really all that interested in him right now.

[Cheetory6]

He seems more {redacted} as town.

Hi elusive. I'm going to ignore you if you say things like this. If you want to ask me something or push something on me based on this game or if you even want to use DoA as an example to engage me on things then maybe we can talk.

[Cheetory6]

COMBOOOPOST:

This is actually interesting on the KoP subject.
I don't exactly think stating that someone is 'OMGUS'ing is not trying to probe the intentions. A lot of players say things like this, but the reactions following does probe interactions.

I think calling CO scummy for what isn't entirely obviously OMGUS reads more like posturing on Kop's end.

However how do you feel about CO?

See response to Dinare.

I like Oto's exit readslist. It gives a base-line about his current thoughts and it's clear and precise. When Otolia comes back from V/LA it will be good to see how the reads progressed since that last post.

I will fight you with my brainfists on this in a little bit. I need lunch first.

I don't like the deflection and snarkiness to one simple question about asking for a read, please note that Reck still hasn't answered the question, but came back again at me with a similar response.

still kinda interested in Quilford and MAYBE WrongSong. that "reaction test!" line at the beginning of the game felt p scummy

How is this snarky enough to warrant your initial angry reaction?

I don't care about meta.

Okay, let's say someone says to you, "oy can you do VCA on the game right now?" and you didn't feel like it was something you were particularly interested in or felt like you could do well or analyze well. That's basically how I feel this situation has played out. Why are you expecting Reck to come back to you and answer this when he's established that there's nothing useful he thinks he can give you on UT in this case?

foodthingstime.~

[Cheetory6]

Spoiler: Oto's Readlist

Otolia's Read List (for Stabulous and everyone else)

EZIC TERRORIST

- Dinare

• Main arguments against
  Dinare
  are in #251. He is opportunistic, and his participation in the game has been coincidental (in my opinion) with either my attacks on him or my own defense.
  The scum I want to lynch today.

EZIC SYMPATHISER

- ChaosOmega, Untrod Tripod

• What has
  ChaosOmega
  done this game ? Nothing. But he did vote me at a time where my wagon was going full throttle. Opportunistic and not involved enough.
  On the lynch list.
  
  
• Speaking of useless people ... we have
  UT
  who's beloved sport consist in posting gifs to mock his target. Didn't brought anything to the game so far between his rhetorical questions and his compulsive need to question people and never follow up on the answer.
  I will not mourn his lynch.

SUSPICIOUS VISA

- Kop, PeaceBringer

• Kop
  is a weird guy. His main argument that my if instead of when is pointless, even more so when you know that my first language is french and
  si
  can be translated as
  if
  or as
  when
  . His last interaction with hito makes me think he could have some town in him. Otherwise wishy-washy plays and not a lot of original thoughts.
  Lynch or Not Lynch, that is the question
  
  
• I had originally put PeaceBringer as a null read but damn that ISO is void. 54 posts of moaning, threats of policy lynching without a lot of analysis. Exactly the type of things I do as scum.
  Full body scanner requested

NO VISA

- GuyInFreezer, Quilford, elusive, Cheetory6

• GiF
  is wanking his noodle in V/LA but still posting in MD for some reason.
  
• I had
  Quilford
  as town earlier but I think it was unwarranted. He is having issue right now.
  Monitoring advised.
  
  
• I don't know how to place elusive right now. Possibly town.
  Let her enter the country
  
  
• Aside from my personal beef and the following whining and bitcing, he has been mostly good.
  Must say Glory to Arstotzkan

VISA IN ORDER

- xRECKONERx, Wrong Song

• RECK
  has exhibited critical thinking faculties and a sharp mind on what's going on. He doesn't seem to be emotionally invested yet. It would benefit town to have him more in the middle of the rumble.
  Probably no lynch today
  
  
• Don't be fooled by
  WrongSong
  's join date, he is likely a veteran and should know MS's meta. He has shown independence and is willing to go against the flow. Quite possibly a scum behavior if it were to continue further in the game.
  What do we say to lynch ? Not today

ARSTOTZKAN

- Hitogoroshi

• Hito
  is my only town read. Good reasonings, good questioning. He still has to rebound after my wagon so that could change my read.
  No Lynch Zone.

---

Otolia's advice to Stabulous

• I was the main wagon. Act as if we could be hammered at any time because hito said his vote was suspended but still present.
  
• Claim only if hito expressively asks you to.
  
• Don't feel confined by my reads.
  
• I will back EVERYTHING you do as long as you don't play against your alignment (aka : please don't self-vote)
  
• Good Luck & Have Fun !

PS : I won't probably post again before my replacement. See you all in a few days.

Let's talk about this readslist. His three main scumspects are Dinare, UT and Chaos, who are literally just people who voted for him [and that's even admittedly part of the reasoning he's given for finding them scummy but hey]. I don't think this is particularly bad or scummy, but I think it's weird that nobody has really brought it up at all.
Next section with Kop and PB is frankly okay.
It's the parts that come afterwards that really irk me. His elusive read is just really really bad. Like. It's in the null section, but he's saying she's possibly town for ????? reasons?? Why is she in the null section then? Why call her townish if you're putting her in the null section of your reads?

[I don't think I bitched and moaned more than him but whatever -.-]

His Reck read doesn't come with any kind of example of where he thinks Reck is exhibiting critical thinking, instead it's literally just a blanket statement with nothing actually behind it that can be critiqued.
His WrongSong read is like what the entire fuck. Like, I actually don't get how this is a townlean for him.
And then his strongest townread he hedges by saying that his read could change there.

Am I saying this readslist is blatantly awfully scummy?
No.
I'm fucking baffled that people started townreading him for it though and I think he's said things before this readlist that were pinging me pretty strong. So, please, someone elaborate on where the mysterious towniness is in this post because I really don't see it.

[Cheetory6]

Reck, talk with me about my case on Kop and Oto's readlist while I ISOdive peacebringer and see what the fuck that is about.

[Cheetory6]

Yeah.
Pretty bad.
ooooooooooooooooooooooo.

[Cheetory6]

You talking about Kop is more important to me anyways.
Cmon.
Don't be this way.

[Cheetory6]

Umm I never said I would hammer otolio, cheetory so not sure what your talking about.

I meant you being hesitant on voting otolia because of potential hammering.
Mibad.
How's your posture-y unvote going?

[Cheetory6]

bringiton.
Not even scared.

I find your unvote of the wagon posturey and I want to know why the speed of a wagon has any merit on your read on PB.

[Cheetory6]

Halfway through PB-ISO,

and things have change since I posted that vote, almost voted oto...
may as well inform him of intent to put at L-1may as well claim oto...
or you can sit around and hope folks change their mind...

Scratching my head.
What was the thought process here PB? Walk me through this.

so you are an anti-town jerk then I see...
anyone who takes such a stand I will vote for on policy as it is anti-game and antitown...
just stupid!
Vote oto...

I thought this was weird at first, but his follow-up here kind of paints a picture for me:

I don't like the manipulative I won't f-ing claim on day one bullshit. Everyone gets run up day one soon or later. Folks playing that game is just BS manipulative crap. It is antitown and antigame and it pisses me off. The game is all about running someone up, getting a claim and evaluate. All anyone has on day one is will speculation... to claim otherwise is bullshit. And I hate refusals to claim and will not budge if someone is pulling that shit.

From earlier posts in the day, PB was saying that he'd just come back from a hiatus and I kind of get the impression that he's used to being run up a lot as either alignment and has residual annoyance from that? I think him getting pissed off at Otolia here makes sense to me in that context? I think it makes sense to me that he'd be mad as either scum or town so kind of feeling null about it overall.

Oto, you drew attention to yourself day 1 with you play, you get runup, you claim, town evaluates and either you get lynced or we move on

Him saying this kind of stuff makes it hard to take much away from his early claim as it comes across as more of a playstyle thing. For the record, I don't think anyone should claim before intent is given for a hammer in the future tia to everyone.

The worst thing that I can see about PB is the fact that his vote seems really sticky and it doesn't seem like he's actually doing much scumhunting from what I've read so far.
Feeling resoundingly null on him atm.

[Cheetory6]

What exactly is your culture? Where else do you play mafia if you don't mind me asking?

[Cheetory6]

I want to know why the speed of a wagon has any merit on your read on PB.

Let me actively form this into a question because apparently it's not apparent enough that this is me asking you things:
"why does the speed of the wagon on PB influence your read on him?"

[Cheetory6]

Bussing isn't a thing?
Kop counterwagon or WrongSong counterwagon couldn't be a thing?
Tell me more.
Tell me why scum wouldn't WK a townlynch.

[Cheetory6]

WK? Explain shortcuts or I don't care.

Whiteknighting.

In what world would scum want to bus to lynch their own partner on day one when there are other wagons or lynches available? Is scum that subpar in their abilities?

So you're trying to tell me that you think scum would 100% never jump on a wagon D1 for cred if they thought that it was pretty likely it was going to go through?
I'm pretty sure a lot of people bussed ika in DoA, so not sure why you're acting like that'd be unusual.

I can't tell what the latest vote count is or when and how people jumped on to who and I don't know for sure what PeaceBRinger is but the way the wagon exploded within one day after I'd been voting him for a while seems off and weird.

How is it weird for a wagon to grow quickly when there's literally a day left in the cycle?

can you meta him Cheetory?

Shoor.

[Cheetory6]

I'm asking you why you think nobody is bussing him. I don't have a hard stance to take on PB because I don't feel particularly strongly about him being town or scum. I want to know why you were so quick to back off his wagon and your vote there because wagonspeed feels like a cop-out way to base your read on him if you thought he was scummy enough to warrant a vote in the first place.
Was your vote just not that confident or what?

[Cheetory6]

Can you tell me why I voted him? Or paraphrase?

I assumed most people were scumreading him based on things that looked weird in his ISO.
Like him asking Otolia to claim at L-2.
Honestly I didn't look at your vote in particular though.

Kop seems okay to me so far but I only know his town meta.

Why does Kop seem okay to you?

P-Edit: In the game I just hosted scum all bussed each other on D1 and won partially because of that. I can get that maybe you wouldn't do it, but why assume nobody else would?

[Cheetory6]

I'm not expecting you to assume it, it just seems weird that you've ruled it out and ruled out that scum could whiteknight a lynch on a townie. Speed of wagon just seems like a really strange reason to get off of someone's case, but I'll make a note to check out your vote and see whether it seems like it's being casually made or not.

His questioning/vote of Chaos also immediately followed hito saying that Chaos looked sketch and that Kop's vote on Otolia looked sketch.
He then tried to convince hito to jump on board COwagon instead of voting for him.
Doesn't that look a little bit sleazy to you? Like, look at the timing of it.

I'm gonna go eat pizza now.

[Cheetory6]

Second paragraph is wrt Kop btw.
I'm for-real gonna eat pizza now.

[Cheetory6]

but damn the dude falls out of your brain.

I swear people are saying shit like this just to bug me q.q

@hito, what exactly is it that you're liking about the elusivewagon? Is it mostly just like a tone/gutwagon or what? Pitch it to me/talk with me about Kop or something.

[Cheetory6]

Also, I think the COwagon is pretty garb, but I don't understand why he'd be your strongest townread? Might need to walk me through that because I'm not seeing how you came to that at all.

[Cheetory6]

Actually a bunch of synapses are happening in my cranium that potentially make COtownread seem reasonable.
Would still like an answer though.

[Cheetory6]

I'm about to go out drinking for the rest of tonight because I found out that I'm fully graduated from University just now
So I probably won't be around for deadline.
Is there really no chance of a Kopwagon?

[Cheetory6]

Bleh.
VOTE: elusive

[Cheetory6]

Slightly tipsy. Still excited about graduating wooooo.

also cheetory agreed to meta PB but hasn't

Lol. Didn't realize I was on a tight deadline.

He's played with me in DOA to the finish and he was logical and careful with his reasoning there. What he said made sense and he was active and engaging with all players and also the voice of reason.

That's just like.. not true? I don't really want to look through DoA again right now, but I'm pretty sure I focused pretty hard on 1-2 people most of D1.

Here he seems to be focused on the popular wagons (or Kop) and little reasoning\logic.

So being the second vote on that wagon means it's a popular wagon? Are you kidding me elusive?

I always assume that scum have their A game on and that town is the one derping stuff up.

So I'm on A game as scum but I'm also much more logical and playing better as town. Gotcha.
And ftr my vote was here in the first place because I disliked you more than the best alternative for a lynch at the time [Chaos] and Kopwagon wasn't happening so fucking whatever and a half at your bullshit about me knowing better. You're literally just going through the fucking motions this game and your careful unvote and all that bullshit come across as super likely to be scum trying to look good rather than town actually thinking about shit.
You can play up the overdefensive bullshit all you want, but it's coming across as a lot faker than it usually does atm.

First thing that's interesting: Cheetory6's response to Otolia's 'slip'. He knows why.

I do? What?

[Cheetory6]

People jumped on Ghostlin for saying something that could be considered a slip and then immediately making a post trying to play it off like it wasn't without anyone even pointing it out. It was the nervousness that people called scummy, not the scumslip itself and I personally think that hunting for scumslips is a bad way of trying to find scum. I found him scummy in that game for other reasons and had been voting him from before that had even happened.

P-Edit:

Oh and cheetory we have a deadline so I assume you'd want to meta PB befor then or were you hoping that getting me mislynched would save you the trouble of following up with your statements of intent?

Maybe if I'd felt any sort of sense of urgency to? I don't get any strong inclination that PB is scum here, so unless you think his meta is going to provide some kind of magical insight into his alignment here [hint: it rarely does] then I really fail to see why you're pushing it as oh so scumtacular that I would want to look at him during the night cycle rather than pay attention to shit going on right now.

I already spent like all of yesterday looking over a bunch of shit that everyone just glazed over. Not a single person engaged me on Otolia's readlist other than Stabulous and not a single person engaged me on my Kopcase. All you've done is sling shit at me for having 'weak reasons' for voting there without even going into detail and only now that I'm voting for you.

Oh and DOA is linked in my wiki, it's a hard game to forget and your plays title from there to here is quite different.

I swear if you push this angle one more time without addressing me saying that my play on

D1

in that game was not that different than here, I will fucking votepark you until you're in the ground.

[Cheetory6]

Alright, let's fucking dance.

the Chaos wagon keeps being derailed with people who can't post reasons.

Except hito made a huge post about why he thinks CO is town and I've made posts about how I think CO has been leaning null and that the case people have made on him is shitty?
Are you even reading anything or are you just hoping nobody is going to call you on this?

I also don't like Chaos' putting me as town without reasons and then doing a 360 to vote me as scum when it becomes convenient for him to do so.

How is it convenient for him to do so?

Chaos also using Hito as a shield to "sheep" is bad since Hito himself has stated that his meta includes killing players for stupid reasons. I mean its not like Hito is in the MS hall of fame or a player of repute so sheeping him seems like a scum move on the part of XReck and Chaos. When their targets flip town they can point to Hito and say, "But we were just sheep..baa .."

And yet you're townreading Kop when he's doing the exact same thing?
Inconsistently applied scumhunting. And arguably almost entirely likely because you want to derail your wagon by slinging shit at everyone on it.

My wagon shouldn't happen, it's based on nothing and Hito conveniently doesn't have time to post a case or explain scum motivation.

He literally just made a case on you immediately before this post. It's actually fucking comical for you to say this. Lol: 591
Are you going to address what he's saying there or are you just going to continually endlessly misrep shit without actually talking about anything anyone is actually saying about anything ever?

Your case on CO is based on his vote which is based on sheeping hito's reasoning on your GiF vote being terrible [which it was] and

Ok, so I'm leaning scum because of that. I'm assuming that you read Otolio/Stab as scum as well, otherwise this doesn't make any sense. So with 2 scum reads, you wanna push a lurker lynch before deadline?

He calls you out here and says why he finds you scummy.
And your response is this:

Bring it. You can't explain your vote and provide reasoning for your switch from putting me as town to the huge swerve to scum.

Hey are to going to try to even make a case by putting something together for your fake read that did a 360 or are you just going to hide behind Hito and his subpar vocabulary skills?

Oh wait I remember when people used gross to describe something, it was third grade. What next do i have to hear? Cooties?

^This 100% ignores his bolded point on you and is just slinging shit at him for no reason.
I'm finding it really hard to believe you're being this dodgy unintentionally.
Respond to their actual substantial posts about you.
Respond to this.

[Cheetory6]

So I went from a "strong" town read to the opposite end of the spectrum within a few posts.

How is he saying that you were a "strong" townread?

[Cheetory6]

Your last post didn't show up in p-edit before I made that last post.

I already answered each of these questions and actually answered all of the Chaos questions that he re-listed before he re-listed them.

Are you not reading, cheetory?

[Cheetory6]

And yet you're townreading Kop when he's doing the exact same thing?
Inconsistently applied scumhunting. And arguably almost entirely likely because you want to derail your wagon by slinging shit at everyone on it.

Definitely answered this.
Definitely.
100%.

How is he saying that you were a "strong" townread?

Look at how answered this question is! Wow! I can't believe it!

[Cheetory6]

Definitely addressed your bullshit about apparently having some kind of read on me based on DoA.
Seriously. q.q
hnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn.

[Cheetory6]

I have a read on you based on DOA, you've claimed to not remember DOA past day one or your interactions with me. So again, you're using subpar logic and reasoning here to deflect. Why?

Are you fucking serious?
Are you.
Fucking serious?
If you read my post again and this is what you take away from it I will actually start frothing at the mouth.

I underlined it for you - maybe I should requote the whole thing once more?

Okay fine. This point isn't entire shit. Good work. Even enough monkeys on typewriters can write shakespeare given enough time.

[Cheetory6]

No, I'm town reading Kop for reasons stated including have experience with him in another game. Can you rephrase why I'm town reading him? See it was in my post, but if you aren't reading it - then you probably missed it along with some other points.

Chaos also using Hito as a shield to "sheep" is bad since Hito himself has stated that his meta includes killing players for stupid reasons. I mean its not like Hito is in the MS hall of fame or a player of repute so sheeping him seems like a scum move on the part of XReck and Chaos. When their targets flip town they can point to Hito and say, "But we were just sheep..baa .."

And yet you're townreading Kop when he's doing the exact same thing?
Inconsistently applied scumhunting. And arguably almost entirely likely because you want to derail your wagon by slinging shit at everyone on it.

Definitely hit the nail on the head with this answer.

[Cheetory6]

I suggest you calm down, before I start quoting DOA in this game.

Except you'd need to go into like D2-D3 and pull shit from there to make a comparison which would be a fucking hard dishonest misrep of how I play.
My earlygame is slow and as I get more and more invested in a game I start posting differently.
Fucking read that game again and then feel super fucking dumb for pushing this over and over again without actually trying to pretend like you're thinking about what I'm saying in response to you.

You've been trying to discredit me for some time now to protect Chaos. You can't have a scum read on me because you have no sensible points. You tried to degrade Kop when he's been far more reasonable and logical then you.

Oh man you fucking got me. You endlessly misrepping people before this page over and over again is literally nothing. Keep pretending like it is.
You're being so fucking dodgy about everything you're saying.
Like, how hard are you dodging the point of what I'm saying about Kop in order to sling shit at me? Like fucking seriously.

[Cheetory6]

you didn't engage in faux theatrics

Has it not occurred to you that maybe my tolerance for your fucking shitty attitude is just getting lower with every game I'm playing with you?
Like, I've illustrated how you misrepped CO and hito more than once on this page alone and now you're misrepping me again by implying that I haven't. You have literally no interest in actually engaging me on anything here. You're just trying to posture with empty bullshit about how I'm supposedly playing differently.

Have you played with Kop in another game or looked at his town game and noted the similarities or differences?

Why in the fuck should I need to? I've made points on him and your entire response there is to just wave his meta at me and sneer at me for not metadiving every single person in this game.

which is a scumtell for you

No it isn't.
I can literally pull up examples from that fucking game in which I got angry at you.

If the point is applicable to multiple players in the game then what specifically about Kop is giving you scum vibes over let's say the other 3-4 players who are doing the same thing?

Because other people aren't being fucking dodgy about it?

I have no interest in engaging this any further.
I'm not voting someone other than elusive. I want her toxic shit out of this game and she's possibly scum. IDEGAF anymore.

[Cheetory6]

There's literally no way you're reading that ISO if you think posts like this:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... c#p6645456
Aren't influencing how much I actually fucking hate playing with you.
If you were town you'd also acknowledge why I think you're awful to play with.
Shouldn't be too hard to think of why.
I get fucking angry when I play with certain kinds of people who engage me in certain kinds of ways. You can keep pushing it as a scumtell all you want, but my tolerance for shitty people in mafia has been steadily going down for a while now. You have a special place in my heart, in that if I'd seen your name in signups before the very end of signups, I probably would have outted.

the Chaos wagon keeps being derailed with people who can't post reasons.

^misrep.

Except hito made a huge post about why he thinks CO is town and I've made posts about how I think CO has been leaning null and that the case people have made on him is shitty?

My wagon shouldn't happen, it's based on nothing and Hito conveniently doesn't have time to post a case or explain scum motivation.

^misrep

He literally just made a case on you immediately before this post. It's actually fucking comical for you to say this

Ok, so I'm leaning scum because of that. I'm assuming that you read Otolio/Stab as scum as well, otherwise this doesn't make any sense. So with 2 scum reads, you wanna push a lurker lynch before deadline?

Bring it. You can't explain your vote and provide reasoning for your switch from putting me as town to the huge swerve to scum.

Hey are to going to try to even make a case by putting something together for your fake read that did a 360 or are you just going to hide behind Hito and his subpar vocabulary skills?

Oh wait I remember when people used gross to describe something, it was third grade. What next do i have to hear? Cooties?

^misrep

^This 100% ignores his bolded point on you and is just slinging shit at him for no reason.

[Cheetory6]

As for Kop, again restate the case in summarized form here. Give me actual evidence to look at. I'm doing the research and work, you're frothing like a rabid scum that wants to either protect Chaos.

And yet you're townreading Kop when he's doing the exact same thing?
Inconsistently applied scumhunting. And arguably almost entirely likely because you want to derail your wagon by slinging shit at everyone on it.

No, I'm town reading Kop for reasons stated including have experience with him in another game. Can you rephrase why I'm town reading him? See it was in my post, but if you aren't reading it - then you probably missed it along with some other points.

I said it's fucking questionable that you'd scumread CO for this and turn a blind eye to Kop doing the same thing in an even sketchier way despite me pointing it out in like 15 posts that you dismiss as subpar/bad logic.

Summarize Hito's case. Or quote it. Please. What I've seen is "gross" being the apex of his arguments.

I literally linked it in that post.
Literally.
Go and look.
With your eyes.

My attitude works for me with scum, if it didn't I might change it.

Worked super well with scumGamma and scumBook in DoA.
Oh wait.

[Cheetory6]

Again, so what you're saying is now that you're voting me because of personal reasons related to you not liking my playstyle? Wow, so town.

I think you're playing more misreppy and dodgy than you usually do.
I think you could be scum because of it. I'm being perfectly honest when I say that my vote is quite frankly a lot stronger than it should be because I don't want to play with you.

[Cheetory6]

Mod please replace me.

[Cheetory6]

Townleans:
dinare, hito

Nulltown:
reck, peacebringer, chaos

Null:
ank, quil, ut

Scumleans:
ws, oto, elusive

Scumread:
kop

wee.

[Cheetory6]

I need to take a break.
:/

Grats on winning after my meltdown and thanks for holding down the fort after I peaced out Mac.

[Cheetory6]

Also.
FTR.
I don't fake getting angry. Even if I'm scum.
And I have lottttt of towngames where I get angry.
So, maybe you got some kind of specific vibe off of the way I posted this game, but like.. generally that's not a great way to actually read me.

P-Edit: o.o
Okay. Haha. I'm surprised you'd want to invite me after this game though.

[Cheetory6]

omg.
I didn't realize you were wrongsong until now.
I'm dumb.

[Cheetory6]

I was like "WHY DOES MALA KEEP POSTING HERE"
q.q
I'm dumb.
brb being dumb.
in a corner.
where I belong.