Mini 1665: Papers, Please Mafia (Game Over)

[ChaosOmega]

Glory to Arstotzka!
The greatest country!

vote: Wrong Song

[ChaosOmega]

Temporary vacation from the sovereign nation of Arstotzka is hereby granted to

______ChaosOmega______

bearing passport number

______PEN15-L0L0L______

.
Purpose

_NO COMPUTER ACCESS_

Duration

_______2 DAYS_______

Return by

_____2015.04.26_____

[ChaosOmega]

Inspection mode

You never stated you thought Quilford was scum,

you didn't mention his playstyle anywhere else.

:III

So, you're answer is to post useless nonsense... good to know.

Interrogate

[ChaosOmega]

1. What are your thoughts on meta and how effective is it in scum hunting?
2. What is the main tool you rely on for scum hunting (VCA, interaction or behavioral analysis, whim, etc)?
3. Favorite TV show of all time
4. The sneakiest thing you did as scum and the stupidest thing you did as town?

1. Indifferent. It's a tool, one that can be used well and poorly. I'm too lazy to use it effectively, so I avoid it.
2. Behavior/interactions with other players/gut
3. Arrested Development
4. Sneakiest thing as scum...I've active lurked my way to winning. I don't know, I don't think I'm super sneaky as a scum player. I'm much better being dumb as town. My first not-newbie game, I outed a town power role and helped lynch a claimed cop.

KoP -- Why are you avatarless? You had an avatar during the last game we played in, why is it gone now?

Who cares? Why ask this question?

Cheetory, do Otolia's reactions to your comments make you believe he is more likely to be scum, more likely to be town, or are they alignment-neutral?

[ChaosOmega]

vote: Otolia

Otolia, any response to 126? Also, do you have any links to completed games where you've said you won't claim on D1?

[ChaosOmega]

unvote, vote: Kop

[ChaosOmega]

You didn't wait for someone else to have an opinion before taking a stand there, good job!

[ChaosOmega]

Prod dodge, concert, will make a real post tomorrow.

[ChaosOmega]

So I'll ask the question, ChaosOmega, what are YOUR intentions on why you placed your vote on me? And don't give me the answers of what others have put behind there votes, I want to hear your side of the bargain.

Coming from you, that's rich.

Let's look at your non-RVS votes. Your first one is Cheetory, with this reasoning:

Cheetory6 has done nothing, his three posts were votes for different users, with very little input.

And that's great, top notch. Except here's what Otolia posted earlier that page:

Cheeto

ok.
VOTE: Otolia

Even less posts than me (3). WHY IS EVERYONE SO PRO-ACTIVE ?!

You don't hide that you're following Dinare's reasoning here (and you probably should've, this whole semantic argument was terrible):

Dinare actually brings up a good point about his statement "What are you going to do if I flip town ?".

If he is town and facing a lynch, it should be when I flip town, not if I flip town.

That alone isn't sitting right with me.

I want to vote for Oka because I don't like his confidence in his argument, what if.

And then you shift to me:

In looking into it more, I think his vote is opportunistic and no real concrete reasoning, jumping on the bandwagon in hope that we push him (oto) off a cliff, and he won't get any heat from it. I just read his vote, and post and I don't get a good vibe from it, personally speaking.

Looks like you thought that was a bad post...

vote: Otolia

Otolia, any response to 126? Also, do you have any links to completed games where you've said you won't claim on D1?

This is a bad post.

This is why I'm voting you. You're hopping on unoffensive wagons immediately after other people provide support for them, without any real input from you.

---

do you believe that CO's vote is something other than OMGUS? I get the sense that scum-CO screwed up with his Kop vote, and is being quiet hoping we lynch Kop instead.

What does any of this even mean? If I'm scum, how would I have "screwed up" voting Kop? Do you believe my vote for Kop was OMGUS? If you do, why do you think an OMGUS vote from me there is scummy?

[ChaosOmega]

I think your saying that I am jumping on people after others have already done it, but what would be the point in the game if others aren't allowed to jump on?

Yeah, if you simplify my point to hell, it's a lot easier to argue. All of your not-RVS votes have been on people without much of a presence in the game, immediately after someone else makes a comment on them being scum, without you providing any further analysis in the slightest. It doesn't look like scumhunting, it looks opportunistic.

I mean hell, take a good look at your vote on me, and I mean take a good look, you tell me what can anybody get from that vote, there is fuck all there no reasoning, no nothing

It wasn't spoon-fed to you, but 358 is my reasoning for the vote, 417 is the extrapolation.

I am going to call you out here and say you are contradicting yourself big time, because your vote on me, stinks a big deal more than me latching onto other unoffensive wagons, because I've got a wagon on me, and what do you do? Oh sorry you've latched on without any reasons at all, other than jumping on after others have provided support and that is the same shit you've tried to throw to see if it would stick.

You're a little biased on the matter, don't you think? And you can keep saying my vote on you is baseless, but it's not true.

[ChaosOmega]

useless crap

No one cares. We have 2 1/2 days left. Post reads and make a vote that isn't worthless.

Kop Vs. ChaosOmega actually makes me lean scum on Otolio.

Why?

Kop and Chaos can you both do reads list? Where you stand on the players so far?

Town

hito
Cheetory
elusive

Scum

Kop
Dinare

I don't have strong reads one way or the other on anyone else.

[ChaosOmega]

My read on ChaosOmega is very similar to KoP actually. ChaosOmega is chosing to just go after KoP while doing a naked voting. He hasn't commented on major posting on hand, but decides to comment on the little things. I like neither of their postings and I'm sure that at least one of them is scum. I'm okay with either of them dying.

Then why vote for PeaceBringer? There's wagons on both Kop and I.

Yes, your vote is OMGUS. I don't buy that your reasoning is that he was waiting for other people before making a stand. Kop was the first to vote you and then wanted other people to take a look at you. You didn't want them to so you voted Kop, putting him as the leading wagon in the vote count(dropping Otolia down on the VC at the same time).

And this makes sense in your head? I was going to stop discussion on me by making a seemingly baseless OMGUS vote on Kop, but you saw through my clever ruse?

unvote, vote: PeaceBringer

PB is willing to lynch a person he believes to be town. Otolia/Stabulous you already know you have my support, but sadly he's not getting lynched today so it's pointless to have my vote there. Right now I'd rather have Chaos dead if I can't have Otolia.

see damned if I do, damned if I don't. Reactions just happen. A vote is used for many reasons. The vote crossed over from being about suspicion to being about policy. You can certainly lynch me on "policy" regarding my "policy." And at no point in my making a statement and expressing my thoughts was oto actually in danger of being lynched. In fact the very nature of the culture here, my in fact drawing the hard line regarding said behavior actually resulted in others even been less inclined to "lynch." This is a behavioral fact. Sure, I can be a bit self-focused on that, but your statement at face value is as much "policy" as the statement I made about Oto's slots. And while he said things that seemed more town, the slot still has plenty of reason to be suspect.

Hedging your bets. So you were suspicious of him, then you said he seemed town so it was policy, and now there's less support to lynch him because of your policy vote, so you unvote, but the slot still has plenty of reason to be suspected.

vote chaos-

he promised one thing and delivered another regarding play...

So we're down to the wire today, and you wanna use shit I said answering random questions as your basis to jump on the biggest wagon?

[ChaosOmega]

please note that Chaos went from omgus dinare to now omgus voting me and that is a far more likely strategy to get the heat off of himself...

Alright, maybe I'm the asshole here, I don't fucking know. Is this a thing? Scum are known to OMGUS vote to take heat off themselves? I've never heard of that. Whenever I've seen someone make an OMGUS vote not in RVS, it's always "Ha ha, OMGUS vote, that's bad." I don't see how this takes attention off of me at all. Dinare mentioned it the first time, and now you. It didn't work for me before, so you thought I was just being plucky and trying again? Do you think I'm fucking retarded?

So we're down to the wire today, and you wanna use shit I said answering random questions as your basis to jump on the biggest wagon?

and you would rather OMGUS, very typical behavior. You made a claim you have not displayed. I also suspect reck here but that won't go any where-
you really think I would do this as scum rather than sit back, park and let things take the natural course? really?

You're asking me if I think as scum, you would jump on the leading bandwagon nearing deadline with sketchy reasoning, rather than sit back and park your vote on someone (where both they have no real chance of being lynched today and you received flak for voting them)? I'm gonna go with yes, I think that's very plausible.

[ChaosOmega]

Wagon banning CO and kop did exactly what I wanted it to in terms of engagement. I think CO came off better than kop for it. In fact I'd even be willing to rescind the wagon ban on Kop at this point if people really want that.

I mean, I think I came off better, too, but that's probably because Kop literally hasn't posted after your wagon ban post. On that note,

Mod: prod Kop

hito, who would you rather lynch out of PB/elusive?

I have voted both you and Kop toDay neither of which you have commented on/responded too. You seem to ignore those things stated by me, but willing to go after the next biggest lynch. Seems like now that KoP isn't as large as the PB wagon you switched gears and you are going after PB like you did KoP.

I went through your ISO looking for stuff about me, it wasn't much. Didn't look like anything worth responding to. Feel free to re-ask me if you feel I missed answering some important things by you. And for the other part, we're close to deadline and I want a lynch, so yeah, I might hop wagons to achieve that.

elusive going for GiF here is truly gross.

Agreed.

I'm not going to vote PB as I'm unsure of that. I could see Chaos as lean scum because of his Otolio defensiveness.

Ok, so I'm leaning scum because of that. I'm assuming that you read Otolio/Stab as scum as well, otherwise this doesn't make any sense. So with 2 scum reads, you wanna push a lurker lynch before deadline?

unvote, vote: elusive

I know I listed you as a townread earlier, but that was mainly gut, and that's all gone to shit.

I'll be here before deadline, I can move my vote around if need be. I believe this is the current VC:

CO (4) - Kop, Quil, Dinare, WS
Kop (3) - Cheet, GiF, PB
PB (2) - Stab, UT
elusive (2) - Reck, CO
WS (1) - hito
GiF (1) - elusive

[ChaosOmega]

I'm not scum so that's a wasted vote. What's disgusting is that Guy hasn't replaced out and has contributed nothing with Quil only being close behind in lack of content. Hito also doesn't put his vote quite where his mouth is, if he thought it was scummy I assume he would. Also guess what I'm never an easy lynch and as town I do scorched earth so if you're trying to set me up be ready for the heat.

AtE, next.

chaos, your vote to save your skin after putting me as town is good though, helps back up the scummy vibe you were giving. If you flip scum then that helps figure otolio out yes?

Can you explain why your vote isn't on kop or PB one of whom you were strongly scum reading? Omgus hard, much?

If I wanted to vote to save my skin, why wouldn't I vote Kop?

If I'm scum so much, then why not drop your weak-ass push on a lurker and vote me?

If chaos is scum does that implicate otolio or my thoughts on this later.

Or you could take a stand one way or the other before a flip.

[ChaosOmega]

Kop, scum reads that aren't me, go.

[ChaosOmega]

My reads up to now, have been mostly overshadowed by a few things but I'll give you what I have seen up to now.

Cheetory, town. I can sense this by the manner of his posts, he is actively asking questions, pressing matters, and in general digging for information, not being cautious about anything in regards to scum hunting.

Dinare, null, leaning town. From what I've seen.

Chaosomega, heavily leaning scum. You can see my argument against him in the past page or two.

Otolia/Stabulous, I don't think he is scum to be honest. From what I've seen.

Hitogorshi, town, same reasons as cheetory.

Others I haven't really looked at in depth, as I've been focussed on a few people and only glanced at others, guyinfreezer has voted for me, and I didn't even know he was in the game.

Kop, scum reads that aren't me, go.

[ChaosOmega]

Mod: I voted elusive in 562

[ChaosOmega]

elusive, could you respond to this:

If chaos is scum does that implicate otolio or my thoughts on this later.

Or you could take a stand one way or the other before a flip.

---

You can't explain your vote and provide reasoning for your switch from putting me as town to the huge swerve to scum.

Hey are to going to try to even make a case by putting something together for your fake read that did a 360 or are you just going to hide behind Hito and his subpar vocabulary skills?

Originally, I thought you were the vig...

If you're town, you'll answer and if you're scum you won't so the vig has a clear shot (no, seriously)

None of your posts jumped out at me earlier in the day, so I didn't pay too much attention to you. I'm pretty much just sheeping hito here, I agree with his analysis of you in 433 & 561. Also, if you were a vig, voting GiF where you did makes zero sense.

[ChaosOmega]

If you thought I was the vig why are you voting me for fucks sake? How anti town do you have to be?

Thought is past tense. Feel free to keep not responding to actual things, though.

[ChaosOmega]

Chaos re list questions

Relist what questions?

People have a tendency to look at the leading wagon before looking at others...It was an attempt to get people to look at Kop instead. It also has the effect of deflecting from Otolia, since he drops a slot on the VC.

I mean, sure, people pay attention to wagons. But if a wagon is leading in votes, that means people have been looking at it and voting. It's not like Kop had no attention on him. Look at the vote counts you posted, he was tied for the most votes before I even voted for him.

Here's a game, Dinare. Rank these from most to least likely in your opinion:
1) Otolia/Stab & I are both town
2) Otolia/Stab & I are both scum
3) Otolia/Stab is town & I am scum
4) Otolia/Stab is scum & I am town

[ChaosOmega]

Chaos said I'm not answering things, what has he asked that I haven't answered?

chaos, your vote to save your skin after putting me as town is good though, helps back up the scummy vibe you were giving. If you flip scum then that helps figure otolio out yes?

Can you explain why your vote isn't on kop or PB one of whom you were strongly scum reading? Omgus hard, much?

If I wanted to vote to save my skin, why wouldn't I vote Kop?

If I'm scum so much, then why not drop your weak-ass push on a lurker and vote me?

If chaos is scum does that implicate otolio or my thoughts on this later.

Or you could take a stand one way or the other before a flip.

I'll be here for deadline.

Hitos vote seems really odd,he isn't reading and isn't explaining. He can't explain any scum motivations for any of my posts but has been trying to FOS me for pointing out lurkers as bad for town since game began.

Wrong song, I should be here around deadline.

Lynching me or votes on me is pathetic play and the reasoning is either non existent or guess what non existent, fucking learn how to play mafia before joining a game and bringing down the collective intellectual level of town.

Town won't vote me because no case no reasons. Everyone else either shitty town or obvscum.

VOTE: ChaosOmega

Bring it. You can't explain your vote and provide reasoning for your switch from putting me as town to the huge swerve to scum.

Hey are to going to try to even make a case by putting something together for your fake read that did a 360 or are you just going to hide behind Hito and his subpar vocabulary skills?

Oh wait I remember when people used gross to describe something, it was third grade. What next do i have to hear? Cooties?

I am sorry that your cooties are making you so mad

hey elusive I have a bad vocabulary and do odd votes but what's my alignment

My vote on guy got me my desired results, we have an active player. I should do quilford next but we probably don't have time.

[ChaosOmega]

I'm at L-1. I'm not full-claiming.

- I am Jorji Costava from Obristan (My 1st post was a flavor crumb)
- I am an X-shot power role
- My role is confirmable

Can we please for the love of Christ lynch elusive now?

[ChaosOmega]

Read the rules. Insurgents have flavored fake claims.

Anyone that has played the game should know my character very well.

Actually chaos your role isn't town is it? Are you third party?

Just throwing shit to the wall to see what sticks? Why isn't my role town again?

[ChaosOmega]

Because on wiki it said the character was a smuggler and also illegal or not a citizen.

Who cares. Read. The. Rules.

I'm sorry that my level I'd discourse isn't to resort to name calling and inflammatory and meaningless phrases like "throwing shit to the wall".
While not everyone can be erudite, my first game on here was with intelligent players capable of making reasoned arguments using logic and evidence and explanation of motivations so my Standards for the rules of engagement are high.

Try using evidence from the game. Explain your scum read on me in your own words using a developed.case.

Me town. You scum. Fire bad.

[ChaosOmega]

Hey PeaceBringer, that's really great, but why don't you stop making bad posts and join us on this totally fantastical Kop wagon.

unvote, vote: Kop

[ChaosOmega]

None. Well, no, I have this:

CO's claim is totally legit.

[ChaosOmega]

Still not particularly caught up, but isn't Jorji Costova an illegal citizen? The flavor doesn't feel town at all.

If scum was illegal citizens and not members of EZIC, this would be a good point.

[ChaosOmega]

Pretty sure Kop is only at L-2.

[ChaosOmega]

Also I'm puzzled as to why there is no pressure unto ChaosOmega do at least tell us what kind of ability we can expect.

You want to know my role so you know whether or not it's worth it to NK me, I understand.

Scum has been provided fakeclaim and a scum PR could perfectly claim anything if there is no limit.

You probably thought that meant something.

[ChaosOmega]

But yeah, I don't like the fact that you say you can prove yourself just to retract that statement afterwards when the pressure was gone.

There's a good plan. Day 3, I go "oh btw, my role isn't actually confirmable teehee". Yep, probably wouldn't draw any suspicion for that.

[ChaosOmega]

this for me further brings CO in to question. Since I was suddenly given that 1x ability during the night phase.
Also there is nothing that showed up r/t CO... unless he wants to claim responsibility for my getting the 1x action.

I do want to claim responsibility for you getting that action.

Are you thinking inventor ?

I'm thinking Arby's.

Yes, I am an inventor.

VOTE: Otolia

[ChaosOmega]

VOTE: Wrong Song

Ank, Reck

: Who's your top scumread right now?

[ChaosOmega]

VOTE: Otolia

Gotta lock up that sweet 3rd spot on the wagon.

[ChaosOmega]

No, you're at L-1. Mac, elusive, me, and PB.

[ChaosOmega]

Mac, who did you target?

[ChaosOmega]

Why, because I think he's town. What, I don't think needs to be known, at least not until after it's been used.

V/LA until Tuesday

[ChaosOmega]

So yeah, my reads. I don't really have any anymore. I have 1 townread (Mac), and then there's everyone else.

PB is playing like complete ass, but does that make him scum? Iunno. Ank I guess is town. Which leaves the last 3 people. UT, Dinare, and elusive. Have a feeling the entire remaining scumteam rests in that group.

[ChaosOmega]

Probably 2. Why ask?

[ChaosOmega]

Who are your top 2 scumreads right now?

[ChaosOmega]

UT, how do you feel about a Dinare lynch today?

Ank, was your read on Dinare dependent on PB's read?

[ChaosOmega]

No. My read on Dinare was directly ported from day three.

Ok, then why the unvote?

VOTE: Untrod Tripod

[ChaosOmega]

Ank, Reck: Who's your top scumread right now?

for me it's mostly PoE

note that these reads are pretty weak atm but... PoE would say that Ank/Dinare are my preferred votes today, I think?
Maybe UT.

I think UT's #842 and #843 are p awkies too

These were posted by Reck and Quil pretty much right before each of them died. They both suspected UT, but not strongly enough to push him that day. Reck and Quil's deaths on the surface (to me, anyway) didn't make a ton of sense. Reck was tracked by PB and didn't go anywhere. So why would scum kill someone they thought was vanilla? And if Quil wasn't the NK last night, I would have pushed for his lynch today with his hammer on Otolia.

[ChaosOmega]

sorry, my sister got married last weekend and I was at the Commune after that

don't really see a reason to move my vote, especially with both PB and elusive going "OH, I GUESS MAYBE UT" after I expressed suspicion of them

wouldn't be super shocked if that was just the scumteam right there

This is a fair point in regards to elusive.

So Untrod Tripod, looks pretty good in ISO, he did point out Wrong Song early on. (http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 0#p6798631)

elusive and PB are my scumreads

PB was a scumread earlier in the game and hasn't really done much to alter my opinion (although Oto flipping town mitigated it a touch), and I thought elusive had some *really* awkward interactions with WrongSong before WS even flipped, so

fuck it

vote: elusive

I also find Untrod Tripod really bizarre, so WS tried to push my lynch through some terrible logic but he didn't point her out he pointed both of us out as "scum" and he could have been bussing.

But still Dinare today then if that doesn't solve it UT.

You said before you liked UT going through his iso, but now it reads as really bizarre?

[ChaosOmega]

I know I had him in my lynch pool earlier, but I'm against this Dinare lynch. This reads like a mislynch to me.

So Ank, let's say you think I'm scum. I gave things to PB and Mac. It's pretty much impossible that me, PB, and Mac are scum together. So you think as scum I gave my 1-shot abilities to an innocent (maybe 2 innocents) just for towncred?

[ChaosOmega]

UT
elusive
Ank
Dinare
you
Mac
me

[ChaosOmega]

Although if UT flips town, this whole thing pretty much is up for change.

[ChaosOmega]

THERE ARE NO THIRD-PARTY ROLES.

This has been gone over already. I'm either scum, or I'm an innocent.

[ChaosOmega]

Then vote UT. PB will jump over, and I think we can get someone else of Dinare/Ank/Mac to vote him as well.