Genesis Mafia - Game Over!

[zakk]

Hi I'm replacing Kinetic

[zakk]

Wow there is a heck of a lot of angst in this game...

I like it.

[zakk]

I have not forgotten this game. I'm almost done reading through the thread, and I have plenty of thoughts

[zakk]

my cumulative notes on people (from towny to scummy)

(a lot of this was done on my phone over the last few days and i'm not bothering to correct what i already wrote so excuse spelling errors unless they are personally offensive to you in which case please take a number and/or read the following spoiler)

Spoiler:

probably town

Master Zik

– not mentioning Kinetic in 192 and then after RC's 203, following up with 252, would be perfectly fine except for the whole "ah yes. scum removed my memory" quip, which rings conspicuously hollow even given his propensity to post frivolous things. perhaps that's a tactic to make him harder to read. maybe it's just a personality quirk. i don't feel like being particularly generous except the rest of his posts seem rather good, though infrequent. seems more likely to argue about arguing (358,359) than actually do anything useful. thinking Jazzmyn is town because of the "regards" thing (402) is terrihorrible. noticing that RedCoyote is belittling his attacks is a good one. i actually use that scumtell a lot. it works great on people like Thor665 because that's all he does when people make cases, he dances around like a fairy and tries to make their cases look stupid, instead of actually addressing points and scumhunting instead. anyway back to Zik. his post 405 where he mentions this article (yes of course i had to google it. with a title like that, wouldn't you? lol) made me giggle uncontrollably and gives sleepkrew a run for his money for funniest post of the game. overall not extremely townie or scummy except for post 432 which almost entirely redeems this slot into a strong town read. i don't find scum usually looking for stuff like that.

Lady Lambdadelta

– never explains the Sleepy Krew vote in post 25/39. is very fluffy until about what's up with the gratuitous~ tildes~ in 210? is that some kind of a courtesy notification that *extra sass* has been applied to the post? lol. almost feels like a cosplay celebrity not-quite-flirting with her fan following. why be flirty unless you want something? still, i like the general confidence and it doesn't feel like scum testing the waters with what she posts. her mouth seems very unfiltered and raw. she has opinions and isn't afraid to push people's buttons, as is the case with ABR. not saying i'm a fan of the outcome (petty arguments) but it's effective for stimulating. post 320 seems supertownie to me, and she also noticed exactly my problem with plum's interactions with jazzmyn. strong town read and i agree about ABR/town and plum/scum.

Albert B. Rampage

– I like posts 134/137. Regardless of ABR's alignment calling people out as walking on eggshells is pro town and was a much needed kick in the pants. 149 seems a too self aware; find out if ABR usually speaks his train of thought? post 150 complains about people just voting people for *things* ...but in 134/37 abr had just complained that people were walking on egg shells, and said players needed to get down and dirty... and then ABR sits back and caps on others for "not doing it right"... lol either ABR is all bark and no bite or he's just a hypocrite. or both. either way that's probably town. feels kinda like 1505 but in a different context. his comment about plum's dance doesn't seem creepy to me, maybe VI and Jazzmyn have more context. that, or they're completely misreading things because they want to, or they're just finding a reason to complain about someone they already don't like. which seems like it could both be the case. Either way, VI prob not scum with Jazzmyn. ABR probably town

idk/not enough to tell

Juls

– post 24 and 32 seem like genuine scumhunting. 123 being honest about wanting to "join in on the banter" seems town. not too much to work with here but still substantially more town feeling than some other players, especially fluffers like say, sleepycrew.

Salamance20

– idk why he's worried about being modkilled in post 29 (again in 220). too lazy to meta other games rn, ask what he's talking about. 42 seems like an odd thing to say if he were scum. kinda makes posts like i imagine a 15 year old talks on call of duty, but with less unsavory language choices. post 70 "RC i've never seen you so fluffy" is good. pursued un-game related question about ABR and Plum being IRL friends (was it in order to look busy?) and talks about GreyIce/LLD being in fights (not commenting on game, again) - blames ABR instead of LLD when clearly LLD attacked ABR with the intent of needling him.228 makes a good point to RC. 233 feels pretty town. 246 trying to get in front of the criticism seems scummy (in b4 RC attacks me). 271 is an easy jump onto vezopraka without any other stated suspicion of him, just "Sigh" and taht's it. 421 is a really good catch. feeling better about salamence now. hard to imagine scum thinking like that, OR admitting that. 422 is also hard to imagine scum making that post.

RedCoyote

– didn’t like his initial few pages of posts, didn’t like his response to being voted, don’t like the reaction by his defenders. 160 sounds like false bravado. Reminds me of when scum attack the wording in a post to try to make their attacker look dumb, even though the attacker is being honest about something being a gut feeling. (I have a sinking feeling with the way players are talking in this game, i'll see that a lot, and won't be able to use it as reliably as a tell). Because, sometimes there is nothing more than a gut feeling. And some players have good gut. Main point is, RC tries to go on the offensive when really all he's doing is defaming his attacker and discrediting an argument against himself, when really he should be making his own arguments, instead of focusing on pressure on himself, particularly, as he puts it, such "weak, weak, weak sauce" pressure. 198 feels like a legit stream of consciousness post on plum being scummy, for the most part. Town points. i wanna see Zik vs. RedCoyote unfold more.

vezokpiraka

– seems like he's relatively detached from the game in terms of drama except for asking for it to stop, but he is tunneling on plum and SK and i can dig it, seeing that SK is nothing but fluff city and plum is obvscum. i like his catch in 371, i didn't really notice that myself until I saw his post. still think it's tvt there. 443 doesn't seem like scum. either that, or vezo is all around a bad player who's hard to read. and coming pretty much straight from rome, i feel i am qualified to make an assessment like that. still, would not lynch today. see if he gets any better from an info perspective.

Quaroath

– in 44 he asks plum if she usually talks like that, even though she explained why she was talking like that. not sure if faked dumbness or if he really missed it. also he says it's "disconcerting" and when people say words like "that's weird" or "this makes me feel odd" in certain ways, it always makes me feel weird about them in some odd way (see what i did there?) because they're stopping short of saying "hey that's scummy" and could just be trying to seed doubt (see: comments about Thor elsewhere). his posts sound like he's trying to get people to read them in a certain way. "Um. That's kinda stating the obvious ain't it? Most of the time, ya don't want to die." in post 65 in particular. wait actually after skimming all his posts they all kinda sound the same in terms of sounding like a sentence you'd actually say. nvm mostly a null tell if this always happens regardless of alignment. post #89 what does "tech" mean in this context? i'm laughing at the fruit jokes but only because i'm tired and it's too late right now. the unqualified Vote Of Anger on Jazzmyn is useless considering quar just switches back to vezopiraka when that wagon grew up. the vote on Jazzmyn is understandable because she's a pretty annoying player so far but it's still hard to rationalize IMO given that he stated its intent as a non serious vote and also because he switched right after. his initial reasons for voting vezo are good though (stated in #250) and though I disagree that's what vezo is doing i understand a vote in that context. also right about SK wagon probably going nowhere even though it should. maybe that would encourage some activity. overall, kinda scummy, mostly due to his posts rubbing me the wrong way almost every single one but also because of the noncommittal jaz vote and explanation to Lambga in post 428

scummy

Sleepycrew

– more fluff than substance. 136 is a sad excuse to vote, not to mention I disagree with it. 238 is the funniest post of the game so far. Hands down. probably wouldn't be this brazen about being completely useless if he were scum, unless this is his meta in which case that observation is useless. not enough stances to really get a good read. that alone is scummy. would lynch simply for willing uselessness alone. replace out if you’re not going to play.

Jazzmyn

– tries to play up the "I'm old school" card a little too much. Her and VI harping on about the "creepy" thing got old super fast and seemed like a distraction or perhaps a bus, though ABR seems town overall. she seems far too moody and far too likely to focus on non-game-related crap. i don't bother to comment on most of her posts, but she's scummy. not as scummy as these last 2 though...

probably scum

VI

– first of all, VI seems ridiculously self-aware. like... #ridiculously#. idk if it's an ego thing or an OCD "i read all my posts 3 times before i post them" thing, but it looks like they are all pretty manufactured/manicured to make people feel a certain way. 187 looks like VI is trying to distance from the plum wagon, immediately following salamander saying there was scum on it. But then says plum is scummy. If plum is scummy, why not own up to being on the wagon? Only conclusion is VI is trying to diminish his prominence in salamanders suspicion. i.e. red flag, VI is probably scum. The last paragraph of 211 re: having four vs three suspects is good. I didn't really think of that in those terms, but I suppose it makes sense given the size of the game (albeit i haven't played too many non-newbie games here (which is another reason a lot of the "jokes" are over my head)).could be scum knowledge about the setup or could also be just experience talking, feels more that way than scummy to me. i don't like 414 asking if jazmyn is "substantially more likely than random to be town", not the way it is worded, not the way it comes across. i DO like Lambda's response of "yes. absolutely." even though i don't particularly agree. trying to "figure out the game" with Red Coyote while they are both online seems like a cheap attempt to win town credit and also an attempt to give something to Plum to grab onto, which she kinda does by adopting the "hey look i'll be helpful too" attitude (more on that below)

scum

Plum

– I like the short-winded posting style she starts with; it’s refreshing to hear thoughts presented in a succinct format. It says little about her alignment, but I suppose it could somewhat be used to mask a scum meta. 129 "probably not enough contact for me to have a solid read" feels self-aware in a way like town shouldn't be. VI saw something in this post too, but I think VI picked up on something else - I'm catching the tone here, not the content. who cares if you have a solid read? oh yeah, you do, if you're trying to be consistent with fake reads. scummy. in post 186 she actually defends people voting her when salamander says there are scum on her wagon. she is transparently trying to get in the good graces of those voting her, and this makes no sense otherwise. post 249 "that's really weird. Salamander, what gives?" betrays that she knows salamander is town. you don't say that to people you think might be scum #253 directed at Zik saying "calling the scum team isn't a thing that exists at this stage of the game right now" feels like someone trying to feel more popular than they are, and/or saying something directed at a scumbuddy without actually saying anything. Interesting backtrack in #423 given she's got a couple votes on her. Also seems like an attempt to follow suit on the "point of order: let's all be reasonable and work together now!" trend that's surfaced in the past page or two. 436 from Plum to Zik seems like she's trying to scare him. She comes out looking super scummy, he comes out looking super townie. and as the icing on the cake, she posts 444 and says "any reason not to go L-1 here?" on the vezo wagon, which, to me, even if it did not already seem like a lazy wagon (my pet peeve),it also looks like she's Nonchalantly Looking for other people's approval. I can't say just how much that post makes my spidey sense tingle, except, it does.

There's a lot of scummy people in this game but Plum is (by far) the worst of the bunch.

vote: Plum

The vezopiraka wagon is not as shiny as this, by far.
idk why this wagon ever lost steam.

I think Plum and VI are bussing and buddying alternately to be confusing.

cue: somebody viciously judging me making a pre-flip association tell.

[zakk]

Oh and. Since I'm finally caught up, I'll be here, but I'm still on L/A for this week, so yeah

Now sleep.

[zakk]

VI given your "awwww that's cute, you're trying" response to my scum read on you, I'm definitely willing to put you at L-1.

Except I'm already voting both vezok and Plum according to the vote count... *nonchalantly passes Untrod cash under the table*

___________________________________

On this week's very special episode of UT Can't Do Votecounts....

[zakk]

obligatory "witty" reply

[zakk]

last time I played with him

I don't remember ever playing with you.

[zakk]

Self-preservation, scum, or just terrible?

Who, vezo or plum? Because plum is all three, and vezo just looks like the first and last

[zakk]

Just thought of something. If VI actually IS a hated Townie, then VI is someone we definitely don't want in endgame, because MyLo becomes LyLo, and LyLo is an auto-loss.

VI, pick a pronoun.

[zakk]

Just thought of something. If VI actually IS a hated Townie, then VI is someone we definitely don't want in endgame, because MyLo becomes LyLo, and LyLo is an auto-loss.

How about no?

Like to everything in here. Just no.

Pretty stoked to hear your reasoning.

Zakk is correct. Vi is technically a good lynch.

Scum would theoretically want to leave a Hated Townie alive as long as possible, for the very reasons I stated in post 510. Letting that happen would be unwise.

Also, that line of thought provides an excellent excuse regarding the inconvenient detail of why the claimed Hated Townie haven't been killed by scum yet.

Even with all of that said, I prefer a Plum lynch. The vezok wagon could also die and I'd be happy.

VI, pick a pronoun

please

.

FTFM. Would you, please?

[zakk]

V/LA over the holiday weekend.

Let's lynch Plum instead of vezo please.

America.

[zakk]

VOTE: SleepyKrew

like this is even some sort of question

Nice choice of low hanging fruit there, scum.

(no plum intended)

VOTE: Plum

So I'm about 5 pages behind still. Will try to finish reading and post tonight but I honestly thought RC/Vi. So I might need to reread the whole thing again.

If you "honestly thought RC/Vi", why were you voting Plum?

Regards,
Jazz

This is actually a good point; nice catch Jazz.

[zakk]

Okay looking back, what I see from Juls is this really weak reason for voting Plum.

Then she actually takes the trouble to explain to Plum why she's voting her, like she's trying to convince Plum (but not #really# Plum; wink wink; just whoever else happens to be watching that exchange) that it's a good idea to vote Plum, or at least, that Juls is not scummy for doing this, i.e. Huge scumpoints for Juls here completely independent of this interaction being with Plum

Not sure what this says about Plum but I could also see it from a Juls-bussing-Plum standpoint

[zakk]

mehhhh Vi is too obvious. Jazzmyn is actually a superior lynch.

what do you think of Juls?

[zakk]

(as opposed to/instead of Jazzmyn, I mean)

[zakk]

You were on the wagon too, but he should take the fall just because he was the last vote? I was not born yesterday Plum.

I didn't even bother responding to your defense of yourself in 501 because after reading it, I felt I had already wasted enough time talking to scum.

Since my read on vezo wasn't very strong one way or the other I was crossing my fingers hoping for a scum flip especially given the number of opportunistic or survivalistic (see: your) votes on him, but with him as town I really can't see you being anything but scum trying to claw to stay alive through any means possible.

The fact that vezopiraka was tunneling on you and SK makes it even more likely you'd want him dead, and it looks to me like if SK is scum with you, your vote is to try to distance, and if he's town, you're trying to throw a bunch of WIFOM on the plate.

With all that said,

If you're actually town and I've got my head stuck so far up my behind that I can't even see things right in front of my face (vaguely possible especially given my performance in my last few games) then tell me one single reason why I should believe you're town at this point.

[zakk]

I'm sorry, what part of 'did nothing besides coming in to hammer' is hard to understand? I apologize, I guess it technically wasn't a quickhammer, but whatever. Vezok wasn't a bad wagon or a bad lynch. There were plenty of ways to be on that wagon and it not be a problem. But SK's basically contextless Vezok hammer was emblematic of the main problem that is

SK doing fuck-all

and playing to be deliberately opaque at best. Sitting around calling SK a lettuce or begging SK in all caps to do something isn't magically going to make SK do anything productive and/or readable.

so your main point is to get SK to do productive/readable things? not to get him lynched because you actually have a scumread on him? ...if you don't have a read on the person you're voting then who DO you have a read on?

let me answer for you:

you're doing nothing but grabbing people by the shoulders and pointing them at obvious shiny lurk-targets
-and then defending yourself when confronted on acting survivalistically


if that's your idea of "giving me a single reason" to think you are town, well.

[zakk]

VOTE: sk

read on plum, please

[zakk]

VOTE: sk

read on plum, please

Town taking heat over something trivial.

that's like saying a triple homicide perp on the run that got pulled over for having a taillight out, and thrown in jail for it, is innocent and should be let go

Did you even read my posts from D1 or

[zakk]

mehhhh Vi is too obvious. Jazzmyn is actually a superior lynch.

what do you think of Juls?

Lurker.

what do you think of Jazzmyn's point regarding Juls' reads?

also hi signer!

[zakk]

SleepyKrew, if you're playing this badly even in this stellar player list, then I would like to suggest that you stop signing up for any more new mafia games until you "get your shit together".

A number of SleepyKrew's most recent completed games show him exhibiting similar behavior as Town,

and directly or indirectly caused a loss

.

So hold on.

Hold the fuck on.

I was with you up until here. It was harsh, but it could be intended to motivate.

This is with intent to demotivate. I can't see any world where this post is meant to get SK to make better posts.

And from your opinions shared here, and your vote on Vi I'm going to assume you have a town read on SK yeah?

So why are you trying to demoralize your town reads? This is something I can only see scum benefiting from. If you were town, you would want to avoid his lynch and have him make better posts (the second one also helps the first).

Vote: Master Zik

Like, explain this to me, or my vote isn't moving.

Are you playing social justice warrior or trying to catch scum because zik is proooobably not scum and sleepy is certainly acting like it. He should be replaced anyway, I don't know why you're even bothering to give this whole situation the time of day. Also, Zik saying "you can take a metadive too" feels so right.

tl;dr I will not support this lynch in the least aaaand you should vote for Plum.

Plum... Plum... Plum... Plum...

*repeats mantra*

So, my post had 2 intentions.

1) SleepyKrew is town.
2) Please step it up, or replace out and let someone else enjoy the game instead.

I don't know Sleepy well enough to say this means he is town but definitely I concur with requesting his replacement; his repeated disregard for the other players in the game, or even having remote levels of involvement in the game, are really annoying, and for the mod to allow it to continue without even a slap on the wrist, is... well, infuriating.

@mod: requesting forced replacement of sleepy forthwith, or barring that, severe corporal punishment in lieu of said forced replacement, to be meted post haste

Where is your Town read on SKrew coming from, then?
Who are the scum pushing SleepyKrew? (or vezokpiraka for that matter)

My my, aren't you being rather inquisitive for not having any strong opinions of your own that you are pushing.

Such as:

Having reread the thread in its entirety, Juls appears to me to me to be very strongly scum. Kinetic/zakk also appears to me to be very strongly scum.

Regards,
Jazz

Make that Juls/singersigner.

Regards,
Jazz

Could you please explain why zakk and why not Albert B. Rampage?

Case in point.

Why did you say Albert there and not Plum, when you are voting for Plum?
Or are you just trying to make Albert look bad to Jazzmyn here?

And why are you soft-defending me? Trying to get on my good side?

I swear, I want to take off my sandal and slap people to get them to see how scummy you are.

Mod: Please replace me

Entirely too busy to play right now. I'm very sorry.

To my replacement and everyone else. ABR and Salamence are town. That's about all I am really sure of.

Juls noooo

Nobody else here likes me

I like you too. And I also think you're town.

Having reread the thread in its entirety, Juls appears to me to me to be very strongly scum. Kinetic/zakk also appears to me to be very strongly scum.

Regards,
Jazz

Well, I'm not.

And thinking Juls and I are scum (presumably together) requires believing that I decided to agree with you, and bus Juls for no reason, here and here, when I could have just ignored it.

But this post looks town in any case. Opinions without reasons give me good feelings.

How is it hubris? Thanks for correcting my sentence, by the way.

No and yes.

I see SleepyKrew being pushed for something that is null at the very least least for him, and in my opinion the push on him looks just as scum-driven as the one on Vezok.

I've seen his scumgame, yes. One recent example is Joss Whedon mafia by Bulbazak, but he was carried by Nachomamma8 and Ms. Marangal. You can do a metadive too.

So maybe, just maybe I'm obtuse. I mean, I know I can be.

I have a question.

You are saying the current SK wagon is being pushed by scum, yes?

You then say this:

Where is your Town read on SKrew coming from, then?
Who are the scum pushing SleepyKrew? (or vezokpiraka for that matter)

I then see this:

Votecount 2.2

Albert B. Rampage
Jazzmyn - 1 (ABR)
Lady Lambdadelta
Master Zik - 1 (LLD)
Plum - 3 (Vi, zakk, Quaroath)
Quaroath
Salamence20
singersigner
SleepyKrew - 2 (Plum, Salamence)
Vi - 1 (Master Zik)
zakk

With 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch. Deadline is (expired on 2015-07-23 17:00:00)

And my brain fails to make connections that are logical.

So.. what gives? You don't want to vote teh scum you think are pushing SK?

Yeahhhhh quaroath, who are you even talking to in this post, man?

*passes blunt*

[zakk]

I like people who accuse me of being a "social justice warrior" and then bitch to the mod that someone needs to be "force replaced out of my game right now and punished or I'm goinna be really upset!"

the irony was completely lost on you, i see

stuff

okay

Mod: Please replace me

Spoiler:

Can confirm Juls not scum.

Didn't get to this yesterday like I thought I could and my best friend is in town. I should get time tomorrow after work to actually catch up but at the very latest I have like five hours of chemo to sit through on Wednesday to give the proper effort. <3

hold on let me just update my reads list

[zakk]

i'm getting increasingly bored of this game

where are the players, where is the activity?

why doesn't anyone really actively want to lynch plum?

hi, come talk to me.

[zakk]

Okay fine. But only because you said please.

Why do you think ABR is scummy, I get the exact opposite.

Is Lambda always this abrasive? Are you?

Who do you think is ignoring the Plum wagon most deliberately?

Why do you agree with me on Plum, but think the rest of my reads are bad?

What's your read on Juls/signer? Why?

What's your opinion on Sleepy, both alignment and lurking?

[zakk]

I am so happy with this ^

Hi nacho

[zakk]

Master Zik -

Leaning Town per LLD

per LLD?? even though she was foaming at the mouth saying he was scum? when I was calling him town literally the entire time?

YUP THAT MAKES SENSE VI

This is not important for my ego, it irks me for another reason; you could have said "per zakk" just as easily, but you namedropped LLD like you are buddying up to her

(and okay maybe she wasn't foaming at the mouth but you get the picture)

Explain.

[zakk]

Also I just thought of something. Why is nobody commenting on the vezopiraka wagon. That was pretty bad.

Hold on.

[zakk]

Final Day 1 Votecount

Albert B. Rampage
Jazzmyn
Juls
Lady Lambdadelta
Master Zik
Plum - 3 (Juls, zakk, Vi)
Quaroath

RedCoyote

Salamence20
SleepyKrew

vezokpiraka

- 7 (LLD, Quaroath,

RedCoyote

, Plum, Salamence20, Jazzmyn, SleepyKrew)
Vi - 3 (Master Zik, ABR,

vezok

)
zakk

Here is the last vote count.

[zakk]

Please

stop thinking I'm scummy; let's work together.

Climbing back on the civility wagon.

What did working with RC get you?

And what did it get RC, other than dead?

[zakk]

deer slepycrew: pls come bak. -youre frined, zak

[zakk]

Gut!

He doesn't seem scummy to me at all.

[zakk]

Plum might be the mislynch if Vi is scum. This does not look like a bus.

What is your opinion on the stuff I've said about Plum, which has nothing to do with VI – they are both independently scummy

[zakk]

Welcome Ranmaru. May you be more awake than your predecessor

[zakk]

I'm not very convinced that Plum will flip scum.

X

[zakk]

tldr tbh lol

[zakk]

No your posts are really just super long and I don't really feel the inclination to read them, and at the same time I'm trying to shame you into posting shorter things. lol

I'll read a summary, though.

[zakk]

I should point out the only reason I said anything about nacho, is because hes OP and we already have Vi in this game so fuck.

What does "OP" mean in this post?

Regards,
Jazz

I assumed this:

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.p ... id=4012090

[zakk]

No your posts are really just super long and I don't really feel the inclination to read them, and at the same time I'm trying to shame you into posting shorter things. lol

I'll read a summary, though.

"your" = you and plum's, and also nacho's which you quoted

[zakk]

@Plum, I'm not going to click through your spoilers, was there someone in there relevant?

Similarly, if you were town, you would read posts instead of just seagulling.

Regards,
Jazz

I dislike players hiding comments on spoilers. It's a subtle way of trying to discourage review of the statements in ISO's, and making it more difficult to read/reread.

Most of the players in the game have walls up. Plum has to hide hers? It's something bothersome to me about the motivations behind it.

...

what?

[zakk]

seagulling

I

like

this term.

Personally, I find you two incredibly creepy.

[zakk]

I have absolutely no interest in discussing what Albert did because imnot going to waste my time reading his posts. I am immensely disappointed you haven't addressed anything I did.

It's not a "waste of time" to read Albert's posts; you have time to read a lot of other stuff. He posted a ton, and made some good points, also it's important for context on what other people are talking about.

I only don't read (long) posts from people I think are scum, or from people who have consistently proven that their (long) posts are not (or are only marginally) worth reading. Or do you think Albert was scum or not worth reading?

[zakk]

Albert would have had a field day with you two

like, what even

[zakk]

not worth reading?

Mostly this.

Why?

[zakk]

He gets distracted pretty easily by stuff that I don't think are alignment indicative, ignores stuff that I do find alignment indicative, and pushes small tells much farther than he ever should.

That's not inherently anomalous, it's quintessential to his monumentally assiduous play style. Irrelevant nitpicks of same concordantly constitute fundamental flaws in accurate valuations thereof. Cataclysmic disruption of communication notwithstanding, his stated leanings vis-à-vis flipped players were irrevocably correct, and apropos disruption contributed to escalating probability of unchecked scum being discovered; ergo, his posts, I find, are indeed worth your rapt attention.

[/Helmut Bakaitis]

[zakk]

and yes, that felt really good to post

[zakk]

wait. nacho IS albert. for some reason i wasn't connecting that!

that changes a LOT. now i'm thinking: why wouldn't you want to read somebody else's thoughts if you KNOW their alignment? i certainly read kinetic's thoughts, and though we now know both of the people he mentioned are town, we didn't then. i disagreed with him and didn't bother saying so at the time, but i knew his opinions were honest, the same way we

know

that all of RCs and vezos opinions are honest.

so why not even read one of the only opinions in the game that you (should) "know" is honest? unless of course it's not, and/or you're not really paying attention or trying in the game, which you clearly are given the amount of posting you've done so far.

there's really no good answer.
this really doesn't make sense from town.

you're trying to dodge ABR and criticise him and distance yourself from him, because you know he was scum, because

you're

scum.

VOTE: nacho
all aboard

Spoiler:

VI i seemingly owe you an apology about this slot
i mean, i doubt you're going to get one, knowing me

or maybe its just, this is as much of one as you'll ever get

[zakk]

I'll take that as a confession.

[zakk]

okay two things

one, why has nobody really addressed my point on nacho, that seems like a SMOKING GUN to me. nacho hasn't addressed it, other than and , he hasn't posted since, and everyone except a few people have ignored it, and nobody has voted him for it, and people (Lambda) are actually calling me scummy for finding it? Lambda, if you disagree with it, fine, please explain to me what you think is bad about it, but don't just throw shade on me for thinking that, and then walk away. that's objectively useless unless you actually think I'm scum. which made me just check, and the entirety of lambda's read on my slot is asking VI why Kinetic is scum, then asking vezopiraka why i'm town, saying somebody's read of me matched hers (even though she hasn't given one), and then just vehemently disagreeing with me and throwing shade on me for random stuff. i am increasingly noticing that there is a huge gap in her tone in posts to players she "knows" vs players she "doesn't know" and though it wasn't apparent on my day 1 read she is alternately sucking up to some people and chastising others. sounds like a play style thing more than an alignment thing but its definitely a thing. and i don't like being on the receiving end of the bad side of it.

two, it's becoming increasingly clear to me that VI is literally just playing the crowd and trying to stay in the right people's good graces, instead of looking for scum. VI just agrees with whoever seems to be popular at the time or whoever has the most town cred at the moment. i mean even with the seagulling thing, VI just buddies up to jazzmyn and then says "wait jk" when i point out it's disgusting. VI literally feels like someone floating around with no investment in finding scum, just making comments here and there, being "active", and hoping that today's episode of "Super-Town Roundtables With RC And Zakk: Discussion Edition" will make people ignore how scummy VI is being on a post-by-post basis and how much VI panders to whoever seems to control discussion at the moment (with the notable exception of ABR). there is scum within [nacho, VI, plum]. guaranteed. this also makes perfect sense seeing how VI buddies up to literally everybody but nacho and plum. i feel like this game should be so ridiculously easy right now, but nobody is listening to me.

three, ranmaru if theres something you want me to read, it really needs to be shorter than that. a huge list of unlabeled spoilers = a huge "nope." from me. -love, zakk

okay, three things

[zakk]

Plum is town

Spoiler:

[zakk]

@Ranmaru:
the sheer amount of effort you are putting into this game so far is incredible. I'm impressed

But why lynch VI sooner than Plum? Plum already has a wagon, *and* she escaped death yesterday

And letting scum live on borrowed time isn't in the manual for how to win as town

and why do you think the nacho thing is irrelevant

[zakk]

It's not as bad as Ranmaru but that's not saying much. I'm not going to click all those links, I just clicked the ones with points interesting to me.

You might as well just quote them so I have to do less work when reading it. All of these Super Awesome Catchups are getting tiresome.

[zakk]

Hey Zakk.

On Albert/Nacho, I don't see that as something telling. I find it as null. I don't think it's something that should really flip your townread on Albert. If you townread him, I think you should keep in mind what Nacho has to say. He hasn't finished his catch up, so I can't really give a good read on himself as a slot at the moment, but hope to see more. I think he's wrong on Vi and Plum though, and urge him to re-evaluate. Finally, we have bigger fish to fry. I am more confident on Vi/Juls/Plum and don't feel like swapping in Nacho for any of them, while Vi was fine with swapping Kinetic for one of her 'reads'. If there is any read you want to talk about, hit me.

zakk - I'm willing to say that Nacho's attempt to say that ABR was playing an obvious Town game was awkward and uninformative at best (about ABR at least), but I'm not sure that scum would go forward with a case that could backfire so badly if they didn't believe in it.

Nacho has made posts elsewhere on the site since I posted my case on him.

He made 24 posts in this game on July 14th.
He made 13 posts in this game on July 15th.
I posted my case in post #765, accusing him of being scum.
He made 0 posts in this game on July 16th.
He made 0 posts in this game on July 17th.

And yet

Nacho has made 47 posts elsewhere on the site since then, with the most recent one being 11 minutes ago.
His activity across the site has remained constant, yet his activity here has completely and totally flatlined.

Tell me why I or anyone else should be ignoring this.

[zakk]

Well well, speak of the devil in the details.

[zakk]

I've done it five times. I don't think it's helping.

I'm going to be on V/LA until Monday.

[zakk]

^ this entire post reeks of "somebody replaced into the game and is shaking things up, and now i'm trying to shame them into submission so I can keep things the way they were when SleepyKrew was an empty suit in that slot"

[zakk]

I was going to (temporarily at least) drop my vote on zakk since it isn't doing much good there, but then he deliberately and repeatedly misrepresented me again so I'm not feeling particularly inclined to back off of him. I am referring to zakk's posts in which he responded to my post (733) about Qua engaging in seagull behaviour, and zakk pretended in his post (755) that this was somehow "disgusting" (by reference to urban-dictionary of all things - how moronic can one be?) and even though that was stupid, it was not necessarily scummy at first, but it became scummy when he continued to pretend that what I wrote was "disgusting" even though I specifically addressed this and specifically set out what it is to which I was referring - that is, how the term is used in forums, which is someone behaving like a seagull (i.e., swoop in, make noise, crap on everything, and leave), not the bizarre and twisted nonsense that zakk sought to attribute to me. Even after I set that out in my posts 773, 778 and 782, zakk did not acknowledge those posts at all but instead simply ignored them and the actual meaning of the term and then subsequently pretended again (in his post 796) that it was his bizarro-world definition to which I referred, when it was no such thing. That is just ridiculous, and quite scummy.

Regards,
Jazz

i was going to ignore this but.
actually, no Jazz. Let me break this down for you

1. you said seagulling
2. VI repeated it
3. i googled it and was disgusted
4. i called you out by linking to the search results if anyone else also didn't know what it meant
5. do not blame me for what the google search says
6. do not blame me for what YOU said either
7. I didn't edit your post and misrep and misquote you, bc

it was VI who chopped your post

to one word

seagulling

I

like

this term.

I need to take the morning off. I agree with zakk's post above mine, though.

i only attached a link so people could see why I was disgusted with you (see, i've edited your post above again, for sake of relevance)

As far as i'm concerned you can shove your righteous indignation, because

i'm

the one who was mentally assaulted by

your

poor choice of terms, whether you meant it as what you said or whether you meant it as what i found it to actually mean, and i don't particularly care which it is, because due to your carelessness i'm now unable to even think of seagulls without thinking of bukkake. which is one of my personal huge dislikes and i find it utterly disgusting. so thank you for that unpleasant image, thank you for being a jerk about it, thank you for calling me a moron, and thank you for completely refusing to have any rational and reasonable discourse this entire game.

and me pointing out the VI/you/thing in 796 was to point out how VI is using anything and everything to buddy up to anyone and everyone, not to point out ANYTHING involving you and the use of that term other than it's use as a connection point VI was trying to use to suck up to you and honestly to everyone in general. so you can shove that too. because clearly you're not reading my posts, you're just cherry picking things to make me look like a bad person, i don't even know why but i don't like it and i certainly don't need it right now in my life.

That's all i have to say on that matter. if you bring it up again, you're beating a dead horse.
one which you bred, which you beat, and which you killed.

what IS relevant however, is that regarding me, you're spinning you're wheels. Kinetic was town and i am town. if you're also town then your vote on me is wasted. it has always been and always will be.

now Jazz if you are town, you can choose to either keep playing the "i;m such a pretty princess and you're all filthy evil people" card and see how far that gets you
or you can choose to stop beating dead horses. personally i am sick of how you're acting and that's why i didnt even bother to respond to anything you've written in the entire thread. because you're impossible to reason with and i don't particularly feel like interacting with someone who's going to be mean to everyone they disagree with regardless of their alignment.

now,
you can either apologize to me, or you can continue to be ignored, and earn a coveted spot on my black list. which has a whopping total of zero people on it so far because i am more patient than most people i know.

it's your choice.
i'd just as soon either one,because i feel particularly "idgaf" this past two weeks and it's only getting exacerbated by having to deal with you right now

Regards,
zakk

And to be honest i'm using your catch phrase unironically. i tried my best to be polite even though i'm very angry.

[zakk]

[...]

This is a pitiful post. Zakk, you should not blame anyone else for your lack of knowledge, you should not rely upon "urban dictionary" for anything and, above all, you should not ascribe to me anything that could even remotely be construed as vulgar or disgusting, such as that which

you

posted, as I would never in a thousand years say or post such a thing with such a meaning. You continuing down this line while you have deliberately ignored the

actual

meaning of the term which I set out repeatedly earlier is pretty egregious.

Regards,
Jazz

i'm actually in a surprisingly good mood right now, the last half hour has been really enlightening and fun for me

but you've made your choice, so i'm making mine based on yours

/ignored
/blacklisted

[zakk]

I think VI being rude and condescending is honestly the least of it. It's more the pandering and the paranoia-mongering.
And what really gets me is the "hey look I'm having 1 on 1 discussions with people! look how town I am/we are!" thing.

With that said I would like to lynch Plum first still. No way does she escape dying 2 days in a row.
And I don't think a VI lynch is going to give me the "I told you so" power I want to have tomorrow. Lol

[zakk]

Ranmaru Nacho I want to talk with you both actually. Specifically about the Nacho/ABR thing.

Break it down to me how that isn't terribly ridiculously horrendously scummy. I don't see it.

[zakk]

And it's a very huge priority for me because I think that you're very very town and I also think that you can do some amazing things for this game but I don't think amazing things will come from you focusing in on a player that I very strongly feel is town.

I kind of feel like this is the same thing that VI is doing:

"You're really cute, and I love your moxie, but move over and let the big boys play"

While at the same time stroking him like a hamster and whispering to him that he is town
So you can put him into your pocket and he won't complain as he nuzzles up to your warmth

Hahaha I have no idea why I got that picture. I need a break LOL

But I'm not gonna take one.

[zakk]

I'm on a roll with this punctuation and capital letters thing, let's keep this moving. I feel good about tonight.

[zakk]

It's okay you can talk to me Ranmaru.

I'm still here.

[zakk]

I just feel it's complicated. I don't think a person can really do anything about their predecessors actions. I think they can only just try to show that regardless of their replacee's actions, that they know their own alignment and they'll work with it as much as they can. I would find not talking about his precessors thoughts might be null if he really beleives personally, that he won't touch his predecessors slot and pretend like it's a brand new slot from earlygame. I'm sure he could reply to it and give a reply as he seems to be opinionated and would be able to come up with something to say.

Also, on his comment towards me, I find null because I'm sure people would say those things to butter people up if they want them to side with them, town or scum. I know I have at times, simply because I wanted to get my way.

I don't really agree with you there, but it seems nobody really sees it how I do. I will admit that I don't really have any past meta on Nacho or on anyone in general where somebody refusing to read their predecessor's posts was scum, but I felt very strongly at that moment that that mindset could not come from any other place, besides being too lazy, and I don't think Nacho is that lazy. Keeping in mind however that literally nobody agrees with me, I'll agree to treat it as null for now with a proviso that I reserve the right to say I told you so, later.

As for Plum vs VI, I just have more gut on Plum. And it was earlier, and reads I make earlier in the game tend to be more accurate. And VI is being pretty active and I always like to keep active people around regardless of their alignment and get rid of non-contributors like your own predecessor as quickly as possible, to make way for replacements like you who actually give a hoot. And Plum is not being active, and she's scum, so I think she should die first. Also she was the one up on the chopping block versus vezopiraka yesterday so I don't want her lurking her way through things.

Not that I think VI is shiny mislynch bait per se, but I am very particular about wanting to lynch my scum reads in order of their scumminess.

[zakk]

@Nacho 965. That's a really good point. I don't read the slot as necessarily town but I also don't read it as scum. I do know that Quar has some personal issues going on at the moment; I believe you are privy. Going back through my notes he is actually a pretty low read of mine now that Ranmaru has significantly townied-up the Sleepy slot, and I've decided to give you a pass based on me apparently being on crack regarding your ABR comments. Quar is a (very) distant third/fourth on my list of potential lynchees, at best. I would suggest a replacement here as well, actually. His last few posts say that he's catching up but I don't really see that happening. I can feel that pain myself because it's happened to me a lot recently. I don't think his mind is going to be on this game at all, having heard what's going on. And I wouldn't want to take his time away from that, that's not fair to either him or us. I can't really see my read on this slot developing past where it currently is with his activity like it's been.

@Plum, I'm feeling particularly generous and reasonable right now. I think something about venting about Jazz gave me a bit of mental breakthrough. Let's talk about stuff. Let's talk about Nacho. Let's talk about VI. And most importantly, let's talk about You.

[zakk]

Zakk, I am more confident in Vi than Plum. I'd rather take the hard path, than the easy path. I feel it would be best to lynch Vi when there is still support for her.

Plus, if we get Vi first, it'll be easier to find her partners too.

I agree, and I feel there is a higher chance Vi may get away in later days than Plum.

Why is this?

[zakk]

I need to go to sleep soon too.

You choose what we talk about. I'm interested to know what you'll choose.

[zakk]

Zakk, I am more confident in Vi than Plum. I'd rather take the hard path, than the easy path. I feel it would be best to lynch Vi when there is still support for her. Plus, if we get Vi first, it'll be easier to find her partners too. I agree, and I feel there is a higher chance Vi may get away in later days than Plum.

This mirrors my thought process exactly. As I have mentioned, I am not at all confident in Plumscum.

No strong read on singersigner/Juls yet. I'll probably be able to read singersigner in due time.

[ A WHOLE BUNCH OF HEINZ 57 ]

Town: Jazz,

Master Zik

...not sure with that latest comment about reading me...
Scum: Salamance, LLD,

Vi

...I have to marinate on this one a bit with that claim. I could just be picking up LLD white knighting Vi since he seems to be putting so much stock in her ability to read him (why is that, btw?)

@Master Zik...do I know you? I’ve never played with you before (as far as I know) so why do you think you can sort me out so quickly?

Master Zik did not say he was going to sort you out so quickly

he said he could "probably be able" to sort you out "in due time"

how is this cause to strike him from your "town" list?

also, why are you worried about being easy to read?

[zakk]

I need to go to sleep soon too.

You choose what we talk about. I'm interested to know what you'll choose.

I'm egocentric; let's talk about me. Have you read some of my recent posts? Any thoughts?

Well. I'm glad you asked. There was actually a post of yours which gave me vague town vibes. It was a medium-long-ish one. I don't remember if it was pre- or post-Ranmaru's replace in, and embarrassingly enough I can't say I'd remember it if I saw it, or even feel the same way about it. But it did make me doubt my read for a second. Which leads me to be more reasonable with you. I'm typically very black and white, and I would like to be more gray. I am very uncomfortable in gray areas mostly because I doubt myself heavily and I end up thinking the wrong things. I went very very gray in Newbie 1615 recently and it turned out horribly. So I try to keep things as binary as possible whenever possible. If I must leave things gray, I say in my mind "Nacho is gray" and I forget about trying to sort him for a while, and I interact with him as if I don't have a read at all, because I had a white read which became a black read and then now I have been convinced to drop my black read. But he can't go back to white now. It's never like that. So he becomes gray, and I label him "gray" in my head, and he is off limits for me to try to sort, until later. Sometimes, these gray reads get sorted for me, by flipping after a night phase. Which is nice. It's even nicer when I'm wrong about a black read. You are a black read. But I would like to give you a chance to prove me wrong. I gave you this chance once before and you pretty much squandered it. I won't give you this chance again.

Unvote

btw because I am still voting Nacho

[zakk]

Great now I'm the one posting walls. I blame you guys.

[zakk]

Master zakk, you can't call Plum and Vi both scum at the same time. Plum looks like the designated mislynch. Either way, this does not look like a bus. Don't you find this suspicious?

Why don't you think they're both scum? Why don't you think it's a bus that went wrong? Why doesn't it look like a distancing attempt?

[zakk]

actually after re-reading a bit, i could totally see a juls/vi/??? team which does not include plum

and i'm laughing really hard at the second half of abr's 566

[zakk]

make that singer, not juls. and the third could be either jazzmyn or quaroath

[zakk]

I want to hear more from Lambda and Salamence about all this

[zakk]

I find Jazzmyn to be a thoughtful, inquisitive, gentle and enjoyable player.

Oh well. Them's the breaks.

I have not seen that side of her then apparently. Not this game.

I will give it some time and I may revisit it, but for now this is for my own sanity.

[zakk]

I also felt significantly less strong about my read on you when I realized who you were, Zik.

What do you mean, is he an alt?

[zakk]

actually after re-reading a bit, i could totally see a juls/vi/??? team which does not include plum

and i'm laughing really hard at the second half of abr's 566

I can see Vi/Singer/Quaroth as a possibility. Singer had some good posts, yet it felt like she was always just absorbing my catch up posts instead of doing her own, and it felt like she was quickly trying to discredit my case. Just leaving her vote on Sala, and leaving without talking to me... doesn't help me grasp a read on her.

Actually I believe she said something like "I wish I wouldn't have read Ranmaru's posts before I did my own catchup"

I feel like a lot of people are ignoring a lot of things in this game that they don't want to address. Me included.

[zakk]

On Jazz, I think that's because she was attacking your slot, Zikk. (Since she scumread Kinetic) Yet she stuck to it stubbornly, and I have yet to talk to her about reads to see where we both stand in the present.

He's Zikk.

I'm Zakk.

*bops your nose*

[zakk]

I also felt significantly less strong about my read on you when I realized who you were, Zik.

What do you mean, is he an alt?

Yep.

Well are you going to enlighten us, or?

[zakk]

I also felt significantly less strong about my read on you when I realized who you were, Zik.

What do you mean, is he an alt?

Yep.

Well are you going to enlighten us, or?

No, you'd better don't.

Well are

you

going to enlighten us?

Master Zik joined the game under an alt for a reason.

And how does you knowing something about why you shouldn't trust him as much as you did before help me feel better about the fact that he doesn't want people to know who he is?

[zakk]

Or does this fall under the category of Things You Don't Ask Or Else, like VI's pronoun. Because this seems quite a bit more relevant than that.

[zakk]

Why don't you want us to know?

[zakk]

I kinda like this sass

Okay you can stay in my town pile too

[zakk]

I have absolutely no idea who you could be haha

[zakk]

Idk who you are... but I like your style

[zakk]

And with that I promise I'm going to bed this time. Lol

[zakk]

Alright. Considering all the recent arguments I'd had with you and Nacho, and others, I'm considering to back down and switch gears. I want you to work with me so we can find a compromise today. I came to this decision because many players have called you town, and have been trying to convince me that you were town. I have also noticed that other players have been less present during these intense times, and that makes me feel wary scum may be lurking or may be coasting under the radar while we argue it out to the death. I had a hard time letting go, but I notice other things are off and I'm going to continue to find the best lynch for today.

Unvote

for the time being.

I find this post incredibly pro-town.

[zakk]

I am losing conviction in my reads.

I am also losing interest in this game. I need a flip or two to grease the wheels.

Also, who wants to play a speculation game?

[zakk]

I am losing conviction in my reads.

I am also losing interest in this game. I need a flip or two to grease the wheels.

Also, who wants to play a speculation game?

The flip will come shortly. For now, we can distill the game state to two easy questions.
*Do you want to vote Master Zik?
*If not, which plausible lynchee would you support Today?

It depends on the type of speculation game. I'll leave the wisdom of it to you.
Of course, if it's the type of speculation that makes money, I might be in.

No I don't want to vote Zik. Unless it's a cop guitly or a 1v1 in LyLo and the only other player is conftown.
I would support Plum or you today. I don't think I would support anyone else barring no new knowledge.

I have no more time for the speculation game tonight, Im' about to go out to dinner. Catch me later

[zakk]

It's 2 k's and 1 a, not the other way around

[zakk]

Move where?

[zakk]

Oh, to Jazzmyn? No.

[zakk]

Best wishes Quaroath. <3

[zakk]

Having reread the thread in its entirety, Juls appears to me to me to be very strongly scum. Kinetic/zakk also appears to me to be very strongly scum.

Regards,
Jazz

Well, I'm not.

And thinking Juls and I are scum (presumably together) requires believing that I decided to agree with you, and bus Juls for no reason, here and here, when I could have just ignored it.

But this post looks town in any case. Opinions without reasons give me good feelings

.

I take that back, this is a new read on her after that scummy read. Yet it is very weak, however. I don't see how he can see this as a valid reason to have a town read.

I don't have a town read on Jazzmyn. Anything is easily faked. It just seems less likely that something like that could be faked. I don't particularly lean town on her but it's better than it was on D1 (public enemy #3). She reminds me of farside22, who I have trouble separating alignment from play style (a similar play style at that), but I think this indignation comes from town. Also I have Jazz meta I can't talk about in depth yet, which I am taking into account. Jazz is more of a wait and see thing for me at this point.

[zakk]

@

Zaak

: Plum isn't scum. Vi probably isn't scum. Vote Jazzmyn.

Tbh I didn't read all the back and forth, I just skimmed and saw my name spelled wrong

Here are some things you're not taking into account:

When plum gets challenged, she disappears and nobody has anything to interact with, so they lose interest. Maybe she's been really RL busy, I didn't check her posts like nacho and I am on mobile so I can't now, but it's worth checking to see if she's avoiding the game like nacho was

When VI gets challenged it's a different story. VI talks to you and zik and RC and hits opposition head on, which is good, but then the activity and interest level dies down, which is kinda how I feel too, tbh. I think that comes from either alignment. But with VI being a pretty high profile player in the game, I think this will work itself out. I'm less sure VI is scum than before, but when games drag on and there are walls and walls, I lose interest and motivation and conviction

Plus like I keep saying, Plum and VI were the counter wagons yesterday, do you really think in a game with players of this caliber that there were three town wagons? I don't believe that for one second, if you do then you're blind (or being blinded)

I'm just looking at all angles of the puzzle here

It's not as simple as it seems, otherwise we would have lynched scum day 1 and/or the wagon fragments from today would have come together by now

I feel like this game is only being played by 5-6 players at any given time

[zakk]

tl;dr: I still want VI or plum, and would greatly prefer plum.

Vote: Plum

[zakk]

When plum gets challenged, she disappears

and nobody has anything to interact with, so they lose interest. Maybe she's been really RL busy, I didn't check her posts like nacho and I am on mobile so I can't now, but it's worth checking to see if she's avoiding the game like nacho was

Is that the crux of your vote now? That's not enough to convince me. How is that indicative of scum exactly? (Especially if she is busy) You are only looking at the Vi and Plum angles. I already looked at them, and many more angles. Also, Plum wagon isn't happening, so how about you put your vote somewhere useful? Vote Jazz.

I also want to mention that Jazz mentioned a game Kinetic was in that started a few weeks before this one. Most of the games he has played in the last month are done. I went as far as april of 2013 to check. Nothing he is in is current, so she can out the meta now. I'd like to see it.

The crux of my vote is vast, read my ISO and search for plum. That's just the latest truck she's been pulling

[zakk]

"Plum wagon isn't happening" sounds like you're trying to bully me into ignoring Plum, and push a non-Plum lynch for a second day in a row. Yeah, no. Plum is scum. Plum should be the lynch.

[zakk]

Off the top of my head, she's scummy for lurking, discouraging scumhunting, defending people who think she's scum (a scum tactic I've seen before which confused them), trying to ride the site popularity wagon, pandering, approval seeking, and now power lurking, because the day is almost over.

[zakk]

And I know why Jazz is SCUMMY, but idk if she's SCUM. She will be sorted out by time itself, due to her activity; plum may very well not, she's already dodged one lynch and is looking to dodge another right now, and you're helping.

[zakk]

YES I AM

[zakk]

All of the things Jazz is doing could also be coming from town, a la farside. I could see Jazz-town easily, and I know if she is town, she's gonna get night killed soon most likely because her gaze is gonna turn onto scum and they aren't gonna like that due to how she is.

Plum on the other hand, I can't see what she does coming from town, I have even tried for the sake of rational discussion and I still can't.

I'm parked on Plum until she's dead.

[zakk]

Ooh hey beetlejuice nice to see you

[zakk]

Yeah, you're just trying to piss me off now, zakk.

Seriously.

I'll deal with you this evening when I'm not confined to mobile.

Good I look forward to it. I have the same limitations right now anyway.

If you're not scum we need to suss this out immediately. And it should have happened long ago.

[zakk]

Votecount 2.7

Jazzmyn - 1 (Ranmaru)
Lady Lambdadelta
Master Zik - 2 (Vi, Nachomamma)
Nachomamma8
Plum - 2 (Quaroath, LLD)
Quaroath - 1 (Plum)
Ranmaru - 1 (Salamence)
Salamence20 - 1 (singersigner)
singersigner
Vi - 1 (Master Zik)
zakk - 1 (Jazzmyn)

With 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch. Deadline is (expired on 2015-07-30 17:00:00)

I'm going to have to replace quaroath. Deadline will be extended.
Also my vacation is officially over and I have reliable internet/computer usage, so I will be more on top of votecounts from here on out

I'm on Plum

indeed

[zakk]

I don't know where you are getting this from. At first you said she was scummy, then you say you get a town vibe from one post that says next to nothing, and now you say you can see a town jazz easily, without explaining why. That totally makes sense. What I don't get is that, since she was your number three, according to you, your lynch line should be:

Plum > Vi > Jazz. Yet you admit that you don't even want to have Jazz in the line even though you had her as scummy early game. How does that make sense?

because there's quaroath's slot and salamence's slots which are looking lurkier now, and because i still suspect nacho, and because i am not anywhere near as sure jazz will flip scum as i am about plum or VI

why are you still trying to get me to lynch jazzmyn? i already said i don't want to do it. like three times. that slot will very likely resolve itself within another day or two. if her and i are both still around by then, i will be far more interested in lynching her then. but not now.

[zakk]

1. I am trying to get you on Jazz with me because I'm certain she is scum. 2. I am trying to make some sense out of what you are saying, and it feels like you are adding more reasons to stay off her rather than explain why the read changed from scummy, to town-lean, to easily town. (Correct me if I'm wrong) Quaroth obviously had problems here and has been replaced else where, so that isn't alignment indicative and you shouldn't be holding that against him. Salamence is lurking, but that isn't why Jazz is somehow townier to you. Finally, you have been insistent with Nacho towards me but now I can't convince you on Jazz? Is that a problem for you?

1. Why are you certain Jazz is scum? It seems very much less black and white to me than that. Plum seems like nigh-definite scum, and VI is not far behind, and you're now saying they're both town.

2. Are you more certain that Jazz is scum than you were that VI was scum a few days ago? I don't even know why you stopped suspecting VI and Plum, probably because I have skipped most of the walls for the last ten or so pages. Your reads flip-flop like the wind. I feel that's usually a town thing to do, and I think it's kind of pro-town either way, but it also seems like the kind of things scum would want to do to redeem a lurker slot, and throw their weight around to get people to nonchalantly toss them into the town basket without thinking about it too much.

3. You're correct. There are many reasons not to vote Jazzmyn, those being: a) scum won't likely leave her alive if she suspects them, b) if she's scum and keeps voteparking, she'll eventually get lynched, and c) she actually makes good points on people from time to time, like what she said about Juls wrt RC/VI reads, but still voting Plum on Day 2.

4. I'm actually reconsidering my town read on you. If you gave me a case for Town-Plum when you begged me to vote VI, or if you were giving me a case for Town-VI now that you're basically ordering me to vote for Jazzmyn, I could have dug that. But you basically have just tried to pull me off a Plum vote all day, and I haven't seen any reasoning for that. And with Plum voteparked on Sleepycrew for most of the game, I can definitely see the distancing before, followed by "buddying" now, between (possibly) two scum slots.

5. Personally I haven't had my suspicions about Nacho alleviated in the least. I thought I could get a wagon going on him pretty easily after pointing out what I thought (and still think) is a glaring scum slip, and was pretty baffled that nobody else thought it was scummy at all. I'm more than willing to give him a pass for now because there are "bigger fish to fry" as you put it, and also I thought Albert was pretty townie, but if he lives on and on and does nothing, it'll become increasingly evident to everyone that my reads shouldn't be disregarded like that. It was as much how he said it, as it was, what he said.

6. Plum, I'm here. If you're here, let's talk.

[zakk]

Also, I want to ask you one simple question. Jazzmin stated that Kinetic is definitely not himself this game. (Your slot) So, is she telling the truth, or is she lying about that? The reason she scum read you was because of Kinetics meta.

I don't know Kinetic's meta. All I can comment on is what I know of Jazzmyn, and what she said about Kinetic, and what he said in this thread.

Which is the following:

As I was looking at Kinetic's posts, I initially thought that his posts saying that he didn't know what to do because he had not been around for a long time might have been legit but then I looked him up on the site and found that he had, in fact, been in another game quite recently (that started a few weeks before this one), and in that game it seems that he played much differently than he has done in this game. In that game, he was

active, involved, confident, aggressive,

and even bigging up his

reputation as an old-timer

, while in this game, he seems to be

trying to portray himself as weak, shy, and uncertain

.

That doesn't make sense to me.

Regards,
Jazz

Relevant parts bolded.

Hello! So its been a while since I played this mafia game thing. Can we just

skip the whole 90 pages of drama

and will the scum just reveal themselves

so I can win and reclaim the best Scum Hunter award?

i am so totally outclassing kinetic right now

I'm always shit Day 1.

Its Day 2 when I start getting mojo going usually.

I do not believe RC is worth 4 votes right now. Well, I don't believe he deserves more right now. I don't think he's as scummy as the vote count indicates.

With that being said,

I'm having trouble really connecting with this game out of the gate.

I think I'm going to re-read everything this weekend, and see if a full read gets some of the juices flowing.

I agree with the comments that state my play has been suboptimal so far. I don't like that being the case.

I may have to ask for a replacement. Personal life issues.

I'll see if I can take care of them.

I'm sorry guys. I've just PMed Untrod as well.

I have to replace out. I really wish I didn't have to. Personal issues.

Relevant parts bolded.


Seems self explanatory to me, which is why I haven't even bothered to talk about it until now.

[zakk]

Yeah, you're just trying to piss me off now, zakk.

Seriously.

I'll deal with you this evening when I'm not confined to mobile.

is this post designed to scare me off your wagon?

because, not happening.

[zakk]

"Plum wagon isn't happening" sounds like you're trying to bully me into ignoring Plum, and push a non-Plum lynch for a second day in a row. Yeah, no. Plum is scum. Plum should be the lynch.

And yes, Plum wagon IS happening. It's the biggest one right now.

[zakk]

Off the top of my head, she's scummy for

lurking

,

discouraging scumhunting

,

defending people who think she's scum

(a scum tactic I've seen before which confused them)

,

trying to ride the site popularity wagon

,

pandering

,

approval seeking

, and now

power lurking

, because the day is almost over.

Okay how the fuck can you say with a straight face that I'm

powerlurking

? How the actual fuck?

> addresses the weakest and most exaggerated point and ignores the others

okay plum

[zakk]

oh i actually forgot one of the main reasons i think she's scum. many people have had other commitments but have still made this game a priority. plum hasn't. hold on, examples incoming

[zakk]

(case in point Ranmaru right there)

[zakk]

hello
my name is [insert personal problem here]
err, i mean it's [insert low-quality play excuse here]
aw screw it
i'm just gonna lurk and hope they don't notice

V/LA this week until further notice. In moving process, currently confined to mobile. Hence stilted sentences.

I'm stuck on mobile for the moment and that I know it's probably affecting my syntax somewhat.

I was on mobile (and sometimes sleep deprived/addled by the stress of moving).

I was really, really, really fucking tired; I'll spare you the IRL details unless you want them.

I was tired. I am currently tired. As mentioned, I have a new school situation and horrible commute.

I have a new school situation and horrible commute.

I have to go help with other household stuff in a few minutes.

I need to go to sleep soon.

Zakk - uh, cool. I guess. I'm going to sleep now unless you have more to say on the matter.

I'll deal with you this evening when I'm not confined to mobile.

hello
my name is inigo zakktoya
you are scum
prepare to die

[zakk]

Singer while you're here so you care to address my plum case?

[zakk]

VI you as well

[zakk]

I decline to object to your case at this time.

Not objecting to my case is fine with me

[zakk]

No, zakk, it wasn't designed to get you off my wagon. I'm not concerned by your vote or case or whatever. Just annoyed. Which presumably was by your design.

Why annoyed?

Firstly, because accusing me of power-lurking now is an outright lie.

Second, because you're screwing around trying to figure out how to make me look bad however you can.

When plum gets challenged, she disappears and nobody has anything to interact with, so they lose interest. Maybe she's been really RL busy, I didn't check her posts like nacho and I am on mobile so I can't now, but it's worth checking to see if she's avoiding the game like nacho was

Completely aside from the fact that my activity has been pretty decent this past week, and that over this past week I have been talking to people who've challenged me - including you! directly! But when it turns out that I

have been busy IRL

, suddenly it

is

scummy and not a factor relevant to your accusation, as you first suggest. Furthermore, it's an attack that rests on me being so lacking in integrity that I'd dissemble about out-of-game stuff to gain an in-game advantage. And for fuck's sake, one of your quotes about that is from a point in time when we had both expressed in the previous few minutes that we were on the verge of going to bed because it was late at night. Compare LLD. She was, possibly still is suspicious of me for activity and interacting-with-an-accusing -player-related stuff; she still has her vote on me. The differences between LLD and zakk in this matter are left as an exercise for the reader.

As for the rest of your case, it's largely a series of buzzwords and reflective of the fact that, as you claim, you haven't been reading my recent posts anyway. If you'd like to outline why you think I've been "discouraging scumhunting", why you think that not suspecting some of the people who suspect me is scum-motivated as done in this game (because claiming that no Townie ever Townreads someone who suspects her is facile), where you see me "trying to ride the site popularity wagon" and to what end, perhaps your words will be worth refuting (as for the last two, it's pretty subjective, but you can try to outline why you think what I was doing served a scum agenda if you like).

VOTE: zakk

Plum, that post is enough to sink you.

Vi: If that's the case in your eyes, I can do little but offer my apologies.

Nacho:

... fine.

UNVOTE:

I'll consider things (Zik) more closely when I have enough brainpower to think.

Paaaaan
Deeeeer
Iiiiiiiiing

Plum and VI are probably not scum together, I've (finally) decided

[zakk]

If plum is scum VI is considerably more likely to be town, and if plum is miraculously town, VI suspicion goes through the roof.

They are (most likely) mutually explosive, more than before anyway

[zakk]

Lol at the prospect of lynching Zik.

@Ran just because I disagree with pretty much everything jazz says doesn't mean she's scum

Re: VI vs Jazz, I think you're over thinking just about everything and I don't think your reads are very accurate

Also, I don't need "information" to back up my gut. It's that way due to my life experiences and my Mafia experiences. "Gut" is just meta on everyone and everything, you can't deny it and you can't support it usually. I can't support my gut on Plum and VI more than I already have, I can just repeat what I've said. At this point them being scummy is just par for the course and doesn't surprise me.

What DOES surprise me is that anyone is considering anything OTHER than a Plum lynch at this point.

Yes i was fine that you were on VI before, and I would still fine with you being on VI, but you really should be on Plum with me

My read on you is not changing because you disagree, it's changing because of how your language in trying to convince me has turned into trying to coerce me or goad me, and that's much more like what scum do

Maybe you're just adapting to the game
Maybe you're feeling more comfortable in your slot

Either way I could see that from both alignments. Everybody's play evolves when it needs to, mine sure has and do has just about everyone's except Jazz.

And no, not wanting to discuss your predecessor isn't a scumslip, but not taking their reads into account as confirmed town and worthy of evaluating with that foreknowledge IS very scummy. Discarding what you know to be honest opinions, outright, is not pro town, it is anti town, AND objectively scummy

And jazz is right about Salamance. He's less and less of a presence like Quaroath but he hasn't given any reason or made any excuses, so it's sus to me and I gotta ISO him

On da bus so ttyl

[zakk]

Salamances ISO was thoroughly unenlightening

[zakk]

Wow there is a heck of a lot of angst in this game...

I like it.

I take it back

Stop The Madness 2015

[zakk]

Skimmed. Scowled. Scoffed. Scratched.

Screamed: "Scum everywhere!"

[zakk]

But yeah Kagami should die today.

Plum was scum. Kagami is scum. 1+1=3 (or possibly more).

Come on. It's time to do this for the good of Towns everywhere.

Hey Zik, come join this pretty counter wagon to your wagon. We have beef jerky and Capri Suns.

Hey VI we know you "hate" Zik because he's smarter than you, but you should still vote Kagami. It's what all the cool kids are doing.

Hey Jazz, I know you hate me, but vote Kagami with me? For serious though.

Hey Ranmaru, look, Plum replaced out under pressure. How surprising. Now. Pull the wool from your eyes and be awesome with me over here on the Kagami wagon.

Hey Salamance, stop lurking and vote Kagami.

Hey Cabd, your first action of the game should be to make yourself useful. Guess how.

Hey Lambda, stop getting upset at Jazzmyn... It's *Jazzmyn*. Come vote Kagami instead. Kagami probably means, like, "cat strangler" or something in Japanese, anyway.

Hey. Nacho. Come be a hero. A Kagami-voting hero. It's the best kind. 99 out of 99 doctors agree.

Hey........ Singer. I'm uh....... singing a song right now, and it goes, "K-A-G, A-M, I ,I, I, Iiiiiii, what's that spell? SCUM."

Oh yeah, hey, Kagami... vote yourself.

[zakk]

"posted from my iPhone 5"

(i.e. Even more reason that Plum was scum)

[zakk]

SHHHHHHH YOU'RE NOT HELPING THE CAUSE

[zakk]

.Zakk, short answer is that I was doing whatever I could to convince you of Jazz scum, to get you with me. Are you not seeing Jazz's posts towards me and LLD? Come on now... Also Vi makes a good point, Jazz didn't mention you in her suspect list, when she is voting you. Thoughts on that? Remember now, she was using meta to keep a scumread on you. Does that not ring bells for you?

I'm not really reading the vast majority of Jazz's posts right now tbh

Yes that would ring bells, can you link to the post you're talking about? I've no desire to sift thru and find it lol

[zakk]

.Zakk, short answer is that I was doing whatever I could to convince you of Jazz scum, to get you with me. Are you not seeing Jazz's posts towards me and LLD? Come on now... Also Vi makes a good point, Jazz didn't mention you in her suspect list, when she is voting you. Thoughts on that? Remember now, she was using meta to keep a scumread on you. Does that not ring bells for you?

I'm not really reading the vast majority of Jazz's posts right now tbh

Yes that would ring bells, can you link to the post you're talking about? I've no desire to sift thru and find it lol

zakk. First things first, Kagami is town. Halt all pushes on her immediately.

LOL no

[zakk]

Okay everyone shut up and let me lay down some wisdom

1. Zik looks like town here because he's active and fighting his lynch and making good points, and he was only widely suggested/pushed after he became more active, which to me says town because as scum he'd be more likely to test the waters and see if he can mesh with and work with public opinion before he moves from being a "making posts but not hugely active" player, to being a main active player in the game, or in people's crosshairs. The reason everybody is hopping all over his back is because he's active and rubbing other active people the wrong way. Is this smart town play? probably not. Is this smart scum play? Definitely not. My big money is that as scum Zik would have just coasted a bit more / a lot more, and taken pot shots at easier targets, instead of running around slapping everyone on the back of the head. He's still my top town read and the back and forth recently has actually convinced me MORE that he's town.

2. Replacements have had a really strong likelihood in this game of really turning slots around for the better, albeit with one notable exception. Plum was here. Plum saw this, plum knew this. Kinetic to me. Sleepy to Ranmaru, etc. Why NOT replace out? If you're not doing the job you need to do for your faction, it's a solid choice as either alignment. I've done it myself (as town only though — i have not rolled scum on this site yet, in 2 years, except mini 1506 greaterest idea mafia, which was abandoned and where pretty much everyone was a serial killer, lol). It just makes sense that Plum replaced out under pressure, and hoped people wouldn't lynch the spot simply out of respect for the replacement's effort, because it's not sporting to lynch replacements before a catch-up can be completed. And she knew there would be a lot more to catch up on than I had or even Ranmaru had. And she told me "I'll deal with you later" which sounds like frustrated scum crumbing a night kill. And then when I actually laid out a case on her with a more or less comprehensive list of her scumminess, and then positively destroyed her rebuttal (which amounted to "I'm not lurking! Also, you're annoying!") with pretty colors and snark, she just went limp and hoped everyone would lose interest as her scumbuddy pushed a shiny new target FOR THE SECOND DAY IN A ROW.

3. I find it very hard to believe that VI has never seen scum replace out of a game.

[zakk]

What do you think about salamance, zakk?

I think he's another shiny Target Who Is Anyone But You, who might be scum lurking now that deadline is near, who might be town who lost interest in the game or is busy, but definitely is a Target Other Than Yourself. That's what I think.

[zakk]

In conclusion: vote Kagami.

[zakk]

That being said, I read through your Plum case. I'm not opposed to lynching the slot to get rid of the ambiguity because I personally can't figure it out and it's arguably one of the better information lynches. I think it's better than the Zik wagon, at least. Not better than a Salamance or LLD one, though.

It seems weird to lynch a slot for the ambiguity when it's been replaced.

Not when it's that slot

[zakk]

@zakk...I'm not saying that Plum/Kagami can't be scum, but I highly doubt that seeing replacements make scummy slots look better had anything to do with her replacing out. Plum's not the kind of player that would do that strategically, imo. If she didn't have time for the game, she didn't have time for it, and that's not alignment indicative. To say that it is only for her is very short-sighted and tunnel-y.

That being said, I read through your Plum case. I'm not opposed to lynching the slot to get rid of the ambiguity because I personally can't figure it out and it's arguably one of the better information lynches. I think it's better than the Zik wagon, at least. Not better than a Salamance or LLD one, though.

Thank you for this response, finally somebody pays attention

Even if not though, what about the rest of my points? ISO me and look for colors.

I feel I've laid things out time and again on Plum scum and people give it lip service but nobody wants to put their money where their mouth is


Re: LLD/Sal

I don't see LLD being scum, in fact quite the opposite. Not willing to entertain a lynch though do actually give me bullet points why you suspect her because I don't really remember you saying this before (not sayng you didn't). She's a strong town read tho

Sal needs to get active or get replaced but I didn't find his early content very bad, I just remember having an incomplete/insufficient information read with a town lean. Would not be happy if a wagon formed on him either simply due to his lynch being severely low info in terms of associatives


I'm actually moderatelysuspicious of your own slot and I haven't really talked to you at all yet, you've been on my periphery after the jazz:juls->RC/VI thing. let's fix that.

Hi I'm zakk. so I herd u liek

mudkipz

singing and signing and mafiaing

[zakk]

Deadline is not near.

Ooh did we get an extension because replacements, because fantastic now I can have more time to push your lynch

Perhaps you should put some thought into Targets Who Are Not Me.

Okay Kagami. Let's talk about who you think is scum

[zakk]

i'm eating cool ranch Doritos. yum

[zakk]

1. What modkill lies by sala. And why aren't you screaming lynch all liars if you think he's scum
2. VI is p. bad either way. As either scum or town VI is sucking big time imo. Needs to die before endgame anyway due to claim.
3. Nacho is town because he thinks you're town ... Lol.
4. Re Singer: scum replacements have incentive to fake town looking things. Null. And I don't even know what you're talking about yet

[zakk]

And of course I'm exotic

I'm a peacock man you gotta let me fly!!!

[zakk]

One post left.

What does this mean

[zakk]

Cheers, sounds good

[zakk]

Vote: Vi

I don't even care if you're scum, you're gone. That was unacceptable.

And you're scum.

[zakk]

You are classless.

I'm not a dimwit, and I sure as heck don't deserve a helping of your vitriol. If you're town, grow up. If you're scum, please continue making it easier to want to blacklist you too

[zakk]

Currently attempting to figure out whether this is a scum appeal to emotion or an actual, real (and totally embarrassing) emotional implosion

[zakk]

Either way it's a violation of site rules

[zakk]

On the off chance that it's real.

VI go take a freaking breather

[zakk]

Well, it's becauseI'm pretty unsure of my read on you after you attacked me too

That was pretty unexpected.

[zakk]

I won't vote Zik
I won't vote Jazz
I won't vote Lambda
I won't vote Ranmaru

Give me what you've got

[zakk]

Unvote

[zakk]

Actually no.

Vote Kagami

. Now.

[zakk]

Kag

1 sounds like joking

2 why not

3 it's not a reason for a read

4 fair point

So then, do you think VI is faking this meltdown?

[zakk]

VI you've seen Cabd single handedly win games AS TOWN as well as scum, but you want him dead based solely on the fact that it's possible he's scum?

And you're mad that I said you're sucking big time? ....

.................

The meltdown is literally the only reason I think you could be town.

[zakk]

More importantly, what's your read on Zik given zakk's Town-case on him? I'm not particularly appreciative on your neutral posts today.

Scum?
Did you think that was a town case worth commenting on?

I commented on it, ergo it was worth commenting on. Do I need to get a Rocket Raccoon avatar just for you.

Please stop voting

[Kagami]

, Vi.

Why.

Sincerely tempted to get a rocket raccoon avatar now

But no I've been years without one, I won't succumb

[zakk]

There's scum right under our noses

Why is nobody paying attention to the patently obvious

Yes, I doubt VI would float an entire site reputation over a single game problem so that was probably real

Plum /Kagami still needs to die

[zakk]

For my own sanity

Town/y

Zik
Lambda
Sleepy/Ranmaru
Juls/singer
Quaroath/Cabd
Jazz
Salamance
Nacho/ABR
Plum/Kagami

Scum/my

VI is anywhere between Juls/singer and nacho depending on the time if day

[zakk]

Zik is basically my top town read

How is he even scummy at all, VI?

[zakk]

I make trash arguments against lots of people in order to judge their reactions though

[zakk]

That's not really valid

And he's backed off you now that he thinks you're town, how does that factor in?

In my experience, people who I think are town and who aren't trying to kill me at that very moment, are allies

Until I think they're scum again because everyone else is dead, I treat them as such

Do you honestly think he is not town? Or is this a "VI got upset, VI wants Zik gone bc ~reasons~ okay??" thing?

[zakk]

PS the less easy jabs the better bc I'm just about as sick of this game as anyone else

Vote plum with me

[zakk]

Meh i think I'm doing just fine so far in terms of reads

I haven't lynched town and I haven't defended scum yet so I have no reason to question myself

That's another reason we need flips

And what about Zik? what if he is town tho? Does it seem like there is unexplained pressure against his wagon? That usually means scum unless the people who don't want it specifically saying so

For one, I am specifically saying so

And why is it so hard to lynch plum/Kagami then? Everyone thinks it's scummy but as soon as it gets closer someting else always pops up

Smells like scum to me

[zakk]

Who are these mythical town leaders you speak of?

[zakk]

Me you and Zik have the most posts

Followed by Lambda Ranmaru and jazz

If Jazz is town there's a high likelihood we are all town imo

So why can't we all just agree to make a policy lynch based on general slot scumminess and everyone just go with it

Liiiiiiike

Plum

[zakk]

Based on involvement, effort, and non-lurking, yes

Or did you think Salamance is a veritable bastion of towniness singer?

[zakk]

Jazz is the least likely yes

But it makes sense that scum are lurking through this all, more or less

[zakk]

Bah Lambda

No

Plum

[zakk]

You maybe probably should explain

When you don't explain is how townies get lynched nacho

Or did we not figure that out

[zakk]

Today!

I'm not holding my breath

I have respect for quaroaths real life problems not his slot

And his slot looks pretty bad

So this better be good

[zakk]

Lady Lambdadelta, how did you go from "Master Zik is very town (after my reaction to your pressure regarding SleepyKrew)" to "I could compromise on Master Zik" (after Vi's pushing) to "I'm happy to lynch Zik" (after ???)?

Links to this please

[zakk]

Ranmaru no, your post is wrong, pretty much all of it

Idk why you think Zik is scum for that, and idk why you think Zik and I are scum together, and actually idk when you switched to thinking I was scum ... that's new, and wrong, and idk why you won't vote plum, and idk why you think pretty much anything you think tbh

It's like you're trying to play checkers and we are in a chess game

You need to look past the obvious.

[zakk]

Will anyone, ANYONE, who thinks plum was town, give me ONE reason why?

This Zik wagon is worse than the vezo one. If he flips scum I'll shut up for the entire game because I've been wrong about him and VI, but if he flips town I demand respect and I demand Plums slot get lynched

This game is pressing all of my control freak buttons and is testing the limits of my patience so ridiculously much

Everyone should also post a reads list of their top 4 middle-of-the-road reads, i.e. not town and scum reads

Those are the players who should be lynched methinks

Zik you should post an entire reads list if you're town. Actually do it anyway because it's something to look back at

If you're scum you will have broken my heart

And great, now I'm second guessing myself on zik

I still think Kagami is 300% better, and I refuse to be on this wagon

[zakk]

Why do you think zik is town, zakk?

There's this cool little thing called reading

[zakk]

Oy.

unvote
vote: Salamance

If anyone can give me one reason not to be voting here that's not "my wagon's better," I will immediately switch to whichever wagon they're on.

Go find my post about plum which has colors

[zakk]

Actually here

Off the top of my head, she's scummy for

lurking

,

discouraging scumhunting

,

defending people who think she's scum

(a scum tactic I've seen before which confused them)

,

trying to ride the site popularity wagon

,

pandering

,

approval seeking

, and now

power lurking

, because the day is almost over.

Okay how the fuck can you say with a straight face that I'm

powerlurking

? How the actual fuck?

> addresses the weakest and most exaggerated point and ignores the others

okay plum

oh i actually forgot one of the main reasons i think she's scum. many people have had other commitments but have still made this game a priority. plum hasn't. hold on, examples incoming

hello
my name is [insert personal problem here]
err, i mean it's [insert low-quality play excuse here]
aw screw it
i'm just gonna lurk and hope they don't notice

V/LA this week until further notice. In moving process, currently confined to mobile. Hence stilted sentences.

I'm stuck on mobile for the moment and that I know it's probably affecting my syntax somewhat.

I was on mobile (and sometimes sleep deprived/addled by the stress of moving).

I was really, really, really fucking tired; I'll spare you the IRL details unless you want them.

I was tired. I am currently tired. As mentioned, I have a new school situation and horrible commute.

I have a new school situation and horrible commute.

I have to go help with other household stuff in a few minutes.

I need to go to sleep soon.

Zakk - uh, cool. I guess. I'm going to sleep now unless you have more to say on the matter.

I'll deal with you this evening when I'm not confined to mobile.

hello
my name is inigo zakktoya
you are scum
prepare to die

[zakk]

AND THEN SHE REPLACED OUT

[zakk]

Singer while you're here so you care to address my plum case?

[zakk]

No, zakk, it wasn't designed to get you off my wagon. I'm not concerned by your vote or case or whatever. Just annoyed. Which presumably was by your design.

Why annoyed?

Firstly, because accusing me of power-lurking now is an outright lie.

Second, because you're screwing around trying to figure out how to make me look bad however you can.

When plum gets challenged, she disappears and nobody has anything to interact with, so they lose interest. Maybe she's been really RL busy, I didn't check her posts like nacho and I am on mobile so I can't now, but it's worth checking to see if she's avoiding the game like nacho was

Completely aside from the fact that my activity has been pretty decent this past week, and that over this past week I have been talking to people who've challenged me - including you! directly! But when it turns out that I

have been busy IRL

, suddenly it

is

scummy and not a factor relevant to your accusation, as you first suggest. Furthermore, it's an attack that rests on me being so lacking in integrity that I'd dissemble about out-of-game stuff to gain an in-game advantage. And for fuck's sake, one of your quotes about that is from a point in time when we had both expressed in the previous few minutes that we were on the verge of going to bed because it was late at night. Compare LLD. She was, possibly still is suspicious of me for activity and interacting-with-an-accusing -player-related stuff; she still has her vote on me. The differences between LLD and zakk in this matter are left as an exercise for the reader.

As for the rest of your case, it's largely a series of buzzwords and reflective of the fact that, as you claim, you haven't been reading my recent posts anyway. If you'd like to outline why you think I've been "discouraging scumhunting", why you think that not suspecting some of the people who suspect me is scum-motivated as done in this game (because claiming that no Townie ever Townreads someone who suspects her is facile), where you see me "trying to ride the site popularity wagon" and to what end, perhaps your words will be worth refuting (as for the last two, it's pretty subjective, but you can try to outline why you think what I was doing served a scum agenda if you like).

VOTE: zakk

Plum, that post is enough to sink you.

Vi: If that's the case in your eyes, I can do little but offer my apologies.

Nacho:

... fine.

UNVOTE:

I'll consider things (Zik) more closely when I have enough brainpower to think.

Paaaaan
Deeeeer
Iiiiiiiiing

Plum and VI are probably not scum together, I've (finally) decided

[zakk]

From: zakk
To: everyone
Re: ziktown

Okay everyone shut up and let me lay down some wisdom

1. Zik looks like town here because he's active and fighting his lynch and making good points, and he was only widely suggested/pushed after he became more active, which to me says town because as scum he'd be more likely to test the waters and see if he can mesh with and work with public opinion before he moves from being a "making posts but not hugely active" player, to being a main active player in the game, or in people's crosshairs. The reason everybody is hopping all over his back is because he's active and rubbing other active people the wrong way. Is this smart town play? probably not. Is this smart scum play? Definitely not. My big money is that as scum Zik would have just coasted a bit more / a lot more, and taken pot shots at easier targets, instead of running around slapping everyone on the back of the head. He's still my top town read and the back and forth recently has actually convinced me MORE that he's town.

2. Replacements have had a really strong likelihood in this game of really turning slots around for the better, albeit with one notable exception. Plum was here. Plum saw this, plum knew this. Kinetic to me. Sleepy to Ranmaru, etc. Why NOT replace out? If you're not doing the job you need to do for your faction, it's a solid choice as either alignment. I've done it myself (as town only though — i have not rolled scum on this site yet, in 2 years, except mini 1506 greaterest idea mafia, which was abandoned and where pretty much everyone was a serial killer, lol). It just makes sense that Plum replaced out under pressure, and hoped people wouldn't lynch the spot simply out of respect for the replacement's effort, because it's not sporting to lynch replacements before a catch-up can be completed. And she knew there would be a lot more to catch up on than I had or even Ranmaru had. And she told me "I'll deal with you later" which sounds like frustrated scum crumbing a night kill. And then when I actually laid out a case on her with a more or less comprehensive list of her scumminess, and then positively destroyed her rebuttal (which amounted to "I'm not lurking! Also, you're annoying!") with pretty colors and snark, she just went limp and hoped everyone would lose interest as her scumbuddy pushed a shiny new target FOR THE SECOND DAY IN A ROW.

[zakk]

hot diggity my iso is gold

[zakk]

@mod...V/LA July 28th-August 4th.

Actually yeah thx for reminding me

@mod: VLA Aug 4-Aug 10

Holy p-edit

[zakk]

I'm only a Cabd alt if you're a zakk alt

Which you ain't because I don't have any alts

I don't even have an avatar

[zakk]

Brb

[zakk]

I still think my observation is the most compelling evidence for zik's alignment, but that largely is driven by the knowledge that I'm town.

From your [zakk's] perspective, that should go in the opposite direction. Zik has been hard-defending me and seeks to start an alternative wagon, which I think is a pretty great idea, btw.

So neither you or zik want to lynch each other

Who do you wanna lynch then, Salamance? Lol

[zakk]

Why Cabd

I like that he agrees with me

I seem to be one of the least, or at the very least, rather less likely to be the person a scum replacement would want to suck up to

[zakk]

I seem to be one of the least, or at the very least, rather less likely to be the person a scum replacement would want to suck up to

Why the heck do you say that? You're almost being universally townread?

That's a terrible reason not to vote for someone who has yet to be a part of this game. In fact, I forgot who he replaced and that he was even here. >_>

You are an absolutely ideal person for scum to suck up to.

Scum wouldn't want to suck up to universally townread people
Scum would want to suck up to INFLUENTIAL townread people

And if I'm influential, then:

Why wasn't i able to stop the vezo wagon-
Why is the Zik wagon so large and impending?
Why is the Plum wagon not already a thought from yesterday?
Why am I still even posting to try to convince people of things? Because if I'm "almost universally townread", I should be able to say what I want and people will consider it from a standpoint of little to no suspicion

People aren't considering it. People are trying to discredit me

Why, low intelligence level? I'm quite intelligent (don't

even

.)
why, inactivity? I'm quite active and involved in this game
why, inaccuracy? I lynch scum >60% of the time. I checked!
Why, abrasiveness? I am trying my best to be amiable, and I'm sure not going and cursing people up and down for town cred
Why, cliqueyness? Maybe. Well, probably. But that's stupid.

I don't even know where I was going with this

This argument is stupid.

The point is. PLUM WAS SCUM AND I'VE POINTED IT OUT A HUNDRED TIMES
I JUST QUOTED A BUNCH OF MY POSTS AND NOBODY ANSWERS THEM

Maybe i should make a canned response to everything. "If you're not voting Kagame don't talk to me"

I think I will.

Why Cabd

I like that he agrees with me

I seem to be one of the least, or at the very least, rather less likely to be the person a scum replacement would want to suck up to

The problem with agreeing with you is that you are woefully and inexplicably wrong, and it's not even clear to me why you believe so strongly in the things that you profess to believe in given the arguments in your iso.

so* you think i "can be town" because you're deferring to VI's read but i'm "woefully and inexplicably wrong"

yeaaahhhhhhhh

Spoiler: *

this rule of so has been brought to you by, VI and Jazz

That's a terrible reason not to vote for someone who has yet to be a part of this game. In fact, I forgot who he replaced and that he was even here. >_>

You don't know that because you're not paying attention
I made the mistake of not being informed on who someone replaced before too though
And it's even worse now that there are 2-3 more replacements since then

Catch up

first

, and

then

vote.

Yes, I think the salamence and cabd/quaroath (that's who) slots have a lot to answer for/prove

But that doesn't mean they're scum

It makes sense that scum is among the

lurkers

because
1) the actives aren't all town reading each other yet (though i think that is percolating through gradually. idk if it should be though)
2) it seems like a pretty good plan to be less active if and only if there's a bunch of fighting townies

However it also makes sense if scum is among the

actives

because
1) today feels like an absolute mess
2) i don't feel any closer to lynching plum
3) plum hasn't really been defending herself well
4) therefore someone else has been pushing other things to distract

I think scum is among the actives

The game is far too simple otherwise-- and this game has been anything but simple

The replacements screw everything up timeline-wise though because nobody wants to lynch replacements.

but that doesn't mean they're not scum.

and before anyone even starts:
THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN CABD AND KAGAMI IS-

- one flaked multiple games due to RL issues, one replaced out under pressure
- one has been on the bring of extinction multiple times, but has somehow stayed alive for no apparent reason (i.e. shiny other wagons-of-the-moment), the other has never really been under pressure until now
- one has a really obvious (just iso!!!) history of manipulating, pandering, excuse-making, backstabby behavior, and the other doesn't
- one is a shiny new target ("OMG YES!"), and the other is not

yet even the main counter-wagon (zik) has been convinced not to vote for her, somehos, some way, by somebody (guess who, not by plum)

i swear, i'm on the brink of replacing out myself

and before anyone says "but doooont zakk, you're town and contributing ! (even though we dont EVER listen to you)"

i'd look at you for 10 seconds without blinking
then do that snail with jet rockets abandoning the thread .gif thing

-.-

[zakk]

so I aquiesed to your request

I am here to negotiate the cessation of hostilities between Mistress Lambdadelta and thyself

[zakk]

In an hour or so. Lets say 11:00pm. Opinion on singer? What would you like me to talk about?

Thanks Nacho, will give some thoughts when I get home.

Count me in on this

[zakk]

I'll be home in 45 minutes and ready to chat about literally everything

[zakk]

I'm here

I'm ready

I'm waiting

I'm zakk

[zakk]

zakk

This guy took a slot with really no effort or feeling in it to a crazy productive slot. His conviciton in his reads and his pure emotion bleed through on his posts. He goes out of his way to engage people who disagree with him and enlighten them on his positions. He takes stances in a very organic way, none of his posts feel premeditated or aimed to confuse. I find myself agreeing on most of his stances; and I get the feeling his playstyle and mine share some similarities in the pre-post mental states.

Motivational wise, I don't see Zakk as scum with Master Zik and scum-zak + town-zik = why the fuck detract from a super easy lynch?


Also his name is Zakk and mine is Zack so fuck yeah name buds. So many Zs in this game <3

Buttering me up with an ENTIRE 16oz tub of margarine is noted.

And I'm offended I'm not in the top group with VI and Lambda.

That said, you have appeased me with your Kagami vote. And yes, I can see the future, that is part of the mystery of the zakk

Also yes, you are totes invited to me and Ozgin's hydra Zachzrule when we make it

We are gonna join a game with Zachrulez in it and we will confuse them like chupacabras

[zakk]

@

Zakk

: Hey there. Thoughts on Singer? I'd also like to talk about Cabd. Let me know thoughts on him when he finishes his catch up, k?

I don't need him to finish. I already know what I think of his slot, and that is that he is a wordsmith who will be very hard to lynch if scum

With that said I have no idea of his alignment but I like that his reads mostly match mine, and therefore I'm not interested in lynching him in the least, at least not now

[zakk]

As far as singer, I think she seems like she's trying to catch up. It didn't seem very scummy, but this is another slot I can't really take a stance on one way or the other because I haven't been paying much attention to it tbqh

I like her avatar a lot tho, it's very cute. I love Ariel <3

[zakk]

Singer, reads list, nao

[zakk]

zakk, you mention that my post 432 is extremely townie and was what made me your top town read. However, your second top town read, Lady Lambdadelta, instead has a deeply contrasting opinion; she thinks that 432 is scummy. Do you have any comments on this difference of opinion?

Does this seem like cherry picking to you? What do you think of this question to zakk?
(If I didn't have a townread on zakk I'd think ignoring this question while acknowledging you saw it was a clever way of not having to comment on your scum buddy!)

i'm very used to having conflicting opinions with those i townread.

it's part of what makes me a good player
because i don't just townread people who agree with me like Some People Seem To

tbh i thought i answered it already because i certainly did so in my head

[zakk]

Singer, reads list, nao

I don't do reads lists.

I've given you my stronger town reads. I've given you my strongest scum reads. I've given you the people I'm willing to vote. I've even done the courtesy of commenting on people outside of that spectrum. You don't need anymore than that.

i don't either but i did this game

why don't you make an exception for your Good Buddy Zakk?

[zakk]

hahaha i love the semi-snarky emphasis things get when you Just Capitalize One Letter

[zakk]

But yeah cool since you've already done all that, mind whittling it down for me?

1. makes it easier for me to read you
2. makes it easier for me to catch you later if you try to lie
3. makes it easier for me period.

[zakk]

i'm gonna step aside and let the chick fight happen

*roots for lambda*

[zakk]

never in a game have i seen so many people write out the word "like" like they're using it in a sentence, like, how does that even make, like, sense when you're typing it?

[zakk]

Will anyone, ANYONE, who thinks plum was town, give me ONE reason why?

This Zik wagon is worse than the vezo one. If he flips scum I'll shut up for the entire game because I've been wrong about him and VI, but if he flips town I demand respect and I demand Plums slot get lynched

This game is pressing all of my control freak buttons and is testing the limits of my patience so ridiculously much

Everyone should also post a reads list of their top 4 middle-of-the-road reads, i.e. not town and scum reads

Those are the players who should be lynched methinks

Zik you should post an entire reads list if you're town. Actually do it anyway because it's something to look back at

If you're scum you will have broken my heart

And great, now I'm second guessing myself on zik

I still think Kagami is 300% better, and I refuse to be on this wagon

Town (S -> W): Jazzmyn -- Kagami -- Lady Lambdadelta -- Ranmaru -- singersigner - Nachomamma8 - zakk
Scum (S -> W): Vi - Cabd - Salamence20

There's this cool little thing called reading.

HA HA!!!

I JUST SNORTED

[zakk]

Town (S -> W): Kagami -- singersigner -- zakk -- [Vi] -- Jazzmyn -- Lady Lambdadelta -- Ranmaru -- Nachomamma8
Scum (S -> W): ? - Cabd - Salamence20

I need to read Ranmaru's cases on Vi and Jazzmyn more carefully. If they are also instances of IIoA, I will be rather disappointed.

So Jazz has gone down 4 slots and I've gone up 5?

Where's the reasoning for that

[zakk]

I think I did?

You didn't.

Why are they bad?

Why did it override your townread on me? Isn't that more reliable than "responses to pressure"?

They were bad because they felt forced, and if you are who I think you are as an alt, I don't expect that kind of reaction from you.

Plus my original townread on you was based on reactions to pressure as well, and it's like, bad reactions outweight good reactions because good reactions can be faked, to my mind.

1) bad reactions can be faked too
2) good reactions like what?
3) what do you think of VIs meltdown in particular?

[zakk]

Can you expand on that Zik. Why did they seem unfakeable? I mean, they were quotes from before. Why not come to that conclusion before that?

LOL here's a hint

He's probably not talking about those ones

But yeah which ones, zik