Genesis Mafia - Game Over!

[Vi]

Oh, that's why you think it's BBMolla. Seems likely.

Why would he do that? I'd have to read and etc. but this was like teeing up a mislynch.

And, let me check when Nacho voted him...

[Vi]

On the wagon:
- BBmolla looks very town (starting the wagon and pushing it)
- VI looks very scummy (right after it's started, jumps off Plum and puts Zik at L-2)
- Zik hops on without reasoning (but ayyyy it's a counterwagon to his wagon)
- Lambda looks bad for a lot of reasons (not only not being on the wagon, but defending Cabd, and also fighting with singer right before singer ended up dead, though admittedly that's WIFOM) Lambda's hammer now looks really bad, considering a scum pairing of her/Cabd
- Nacho doesn't really look good or bad from things imo
- singersigner we know is town (we should all read her posts closely to find out why she was killed, really wasn't expecting that kill, was expecting Zik or Ranmaru)

Off the wagon:
- Ranmaru is still on Zik (dumb, but is it scum, probably not)
- I still want Kagami dead, but I was also willing to lynch just about anyone and was going to switch when Lambda stole the hammer from me)
- Jazz looks quite a bit worse (not on the wagon, though she said she wants to vote him, and also said she's cool with the wagon)
- Kagami wasn't voting anybody according to the vote count (has made 52 posts over 12 days... without a vote)

you literally think everyone but me is scummy/not townish?

[Vi]

And I'm supposed to believe BBMolla gave this same person dictator power?

Could not post with prior post because asdf phone

[Vi]

This means there's an open question, but it's better not to ask.

Idk, mass-claim might make sense. Some surprising actions occurred, and I'm interested in knowing their motivations.

At this point enough people have claimed or close-to-claimed that it may make sense. I'd advise you not to go first.

[Vi]

and even if you're not you won't use it all willy nilly.

This is the most tired yet incredibly condescending look I can convey by phone.

Although that reminds me. My Hatedness did not apply in LyLo. So if nothing else I believe BBMolla saying this could be the last time he could use this.

[Vi]

Also if zakk-scum uses it to lynch obvious town than its great because he just claims scum

Maybe not the smartest but idk I wanted to use it

And what do you call me? Considering that zakk has been calling me the person he's wanted to lynch more or less continuously since somewhere in Day 2.

[Vi]

I think your town, and even if you're not you won't use it all willy nilly. And you won't lynch me. So all win in my book.

Hey, wait up.

You say this is "all win" but one thing you don't mention is the chance of it hitting scum - just that it won't hit you.

...This would make a ton of sense if you were third party.

[Vi]

Also, zakk, it would be appreciated if you gave everyone time to sort out everything that's coming in over the last 12 hours.

[Vi]

I think your town, and even if you're not you won't use it all willy nilly. And you won't lynch me. So all win in my book.

Hey, wait up.

You say this is "all win" but one thing you don't mention is the chance of it hitting scum - just that it won't hit you.

...This would make a ton of sense if you were third party.

Or he could just be scum.

Do you really think he thinks jazz will flip scum?

Well, third party is scum.

It sounded like he didn't care much if Jazzmyn flipped scum.

[Vi]

Now I'm worried about the setup being 9-3-1. We won't know until BBMolla dies.

[Vi]

Use it now. Third party would use it now too. Awful Town would use it now too.

And yeah BBMolla just said he gave the power to someone who had a super-high chance of lynching someone who's"probably Town". Setting aside the whole "probably"part, which suggests he doesn't care that much, this basically shows once again that he didn't care that much.

I don't think Mafia would be so reckless; I think third party would.

[Vi]

This is me not chilling. If it turns out that all of the effort that got put into turning half the living players into a mutually trusting Town bloc still can't carry the game I will be displeased.

Like

This is actually one of the worst things that could have happened. For different reasons depending on your alignment, I hope you feel proud of yourself.

[Vi]

Guilty as charged on arrogance. Not sure how this is my fault.

[Vi]

More importantly, I'm fine with you as Town at this point. That means that if the Town bloc of me, LLD, Nacho, and Ranmaru holds, there's a really small space for scum to be in at this point.

Do you disagree with that?

[Vi]

Have you noticed how often I change my mind? I'm honestly insulted that you think I would basically do like zakk is now.

More to the point, you're making a few key assumptions, specifically that the game is 9-3-1.

[Vi]

You're also saying that regardless if whether Jazzmyn is Town, Metal Sonic is scum. Imagine the hell out of that.

[Vi]

Basically, unless someone has a nuclear weapon they haven't claimed, if this setup is 9-3-1 we didn't have a chance to start with. In the meantime, unless you're going to tell me where exactly I personally cost the game, we can stop this mutual lecturing and get back to being productive.

[Vi]

Or that.

In b4 Town flip.

[Vi]

Last bit - you also implied that Jazz-scum implies zakk-Town. How does that work?

[Vi]

If you're both town then I'VE cost us the game

But I really don't think that's the case

Don't feel too awful. You -and- BBMolla cost Town the game.

[Vi]

@Kagami: Right, that. Plus we'd have two chances in that scenario anyway.

[Vi]

I'm not going to lie, I was expecting Nacho to die and the scum to be zakk+Ranmaru.

That didn't happen. I keep hoping I can get a moment of coolness, and I keep getting denied :/

Before rushing to end things, I have three outstanding questions.

1) Is there any credible reason to believe zakk isn't scum?
2) Who is the third scum?
3) Does anyone want to claim something about what's causing the roles to change?

(I have my own thoughts, but if I thought they were dead on I wouldn't be asking)

[Vi]

There is the fourth question of whether Ranmaru got usable results but I suspect the answer is no. I can't really look back right now.

[Vi]

Nacho, why did you vote BBMolla immediately?

[Vi]

Then you're saying the scum are BBMolla and me. Is that a correct interpretation of your post?

[Vi]

I read that as DragonFight because phone. I'm not sure if that was an improvement.

zakk, could you please claim? If not, who needs to ask you to claim before you do so?

[Vi]

Oh, Nacho, you claim too.

I can't remember if Metal Sonic claimed earlier on D2 but for completeness etc.

[Vi]

Hey BBMolla. Who's your band member?

[Vi]

No, not offhand.

[Vi]

Zen koan: what is the sound of one Nacho claiming

[Vi]

Take three gold.

I guess my last question in this vein is to LLD. Did your Role PM ever change?

[Vi]

Metal Sonic. Nearly out of batteries, but - why so many scum reads?

[Vi]

Neither of you answered your respective questions. Seriously, now would be a good time to follow basic instructions. >.>

W.r.t. Metal Sonic's review - I'd approach things a little differently. First, start by playing the setup. LLD's role is likely to come from Town, as you say. I'd also argue that BBMolla's role is also more likely to be put on Town, in part because even if his role didn't work exactly as he claimed, having the ability to dictate the lynch as scum is absurdly powerful (more so than LLD's role). Contrary to Nacho's protests, I think his further claims Today are also more likely to come from Town.

Do you agree so far?

[Vi]

That first part was probably a bit much. Apologies as warranted.

[Vi]

Metal Sonic, you do realize that your reads are principally based on conformation bias and hindsight (again), , right?

To continue what I was saying before, with LLD and BBMolla off the table the scum have to be two of three of zakk, Nacho, and Metal Sonic (in order of preference). Jazzmyn wanted zakk dead, Kagami wanted zakk dead, after seeing him use the dictator shot in the worst way available while me and Kagami (who became MANIFESTLY OBVIOUS TOWN while they scrambled to put their reads together, and I'm still one of those people) I want him dead too. The only reason I would'nt want him dead is because you came out today suggesting that he might be as dumb as advertised.

More to come; the mobile skin doesn't help me make long posts.

[Vi]

Nacho principally has what would have to be a hard bus on Cabd in his favor. However, his posts Today are The Scummiest. (coming out against BBMolla with a post that doesn't seem at all concerned with things? Openly flattering me when I point out that he's equally suddenly opening me up as a lynch option? By putting me on a tier of Town above everyone else in the game? Trying to work with me on a question and then dropping it rather than trying to convince me? Not claiming even though he specifically hinted at a power role D2?) In addition, going into Day 4 I started to believe that there is a scum in the Town bloc. The sisi kill in particular makes no sense unless the scum are not feeling threatened from a Vi+LLD+Nacho+Ranmaru Town bloc (which unfortunately with this player list doesn't comfortably eliminate anyone), and if one were to shoot in the Town bloc, it wouldn't be Ranmaru for maximum effectiveness. To that end, my surprise that Nacho is still alive given that he softclaimed a power role is now a question of why he's still alive, especially since he has refused to claim.

Incidentally, I'd have to read how the lynch happened but the wagon on Jazzmyn was the bloc plus zakk. The chance of there being no scum on it is questionable.

[Vi]

Before I forget. BBMolla. Please claim fully. Leave nothing out.

[Vi]

The Metal Sonic case also makes itself, at least from my point of view. He has been tunneling me as hard as zakk has throughout the game with similarly unrealistically awful reasons. I don't really care much about mitigating things he's said or done because I've seen his scum game and know he's capable of using doing whatever anti-Town thing he pleases and getting away with it. The principal interesting thing I remember about him that could point the other way is that he bothered trying to slip his identity to Kagami and Nacho. Scum doing this as a tactic is certainly plausible, but not likely. Scum doing this with their scumpartner Nacho is even less likely; as mentioned on D3 they would just use their scum chat thread (daytalk being an easy assumption).

[Vi]

Oh, also. Nacho+Metal Sonic would make the Day 2 bus scenario even more awkward. "Don't lynch my scum partner Master Zik, lynch my scum partner Cabd instead."

[Vi]

So, the most likely pairing from my point of view is zakk+Nacho, followed by zakk+Metal Sonic, followed by squat. Either way, the right answer is to lynch zakk. I've spent most of the past few pages trying to see if that makes sense, since sentences that start with "either way" don't give fuzzy warms. Besides, the postgame chat is probably going to be super-toxic anyway and I've like to mitigate how much yelling Jazzmyn and Kagami get to do.

I think that's all I have for the time being.

Vote: zakk

(L-3)

@Metal Sonic: I suspected as much. That's why I said it didn't narrow anyone down - you would be the least likely to make that kill if you cared, but if you didn't, never mind.

[Vi]

Well, I guess I have a little more. Scum pairs I'm not confident in independently of role include:
Nacho+BBMolla (Nacho unnecessarily buses his whole team...? Wouldn't it be easier for both of these people to push zakk as inevitable Today? Cabd singles out his scumpartner Salamence for bussing as well?)
Nacho+LLD (I will go hide under a rock for a few minutes before exploding into a Vireball over how both of then guilted me into staying in a game that was obviously unhealthy to where I wanted to replace out)

LLD+BBMolla is not something I can immediately dismiss, but the idea of both of the big roles on D3 coming from scum is hilarious.

There is a point to this. Also, this is totes the first game where I'm trying to rely this heavily on association. If it fails badly I'll shorten the name to "ass tells".

That reminds me, Cabd's bad reads list. For the people he detailed, he tried to give a single exemplary post (that didn't make a lot of sense). He didn't even bother with that for zakk, basically saying "yeah, looks Town, zach supremacy". That looks odd in hindsight as well.

[Vi]

Thanks for the vote of confidence. Are you suggesting Metal Sonic is scum, or LLD?

[Vi]

Why is BBMolla clearly scum?

[Vi]

*CRAZY THINGS HAPPEN*
You: Rather than talk about any of those things, let's lynch the person Kagami said not to lynch.

I definitely read your post as saying that I wasn't Town. That's how not calling people a Town read works.

There is no way that I would have done several armfuls of the things I've done this game as scum. It's not even close. Thanks for noticing.

But what about BBMolla?

[Vi]

In re: confirmed guilty roles - Watcher. Already flipped. No idea how long it was in play.

wrt your last two questions - you would stop me from coming after you before you're ready. You don't have to think I'm proactively lynchable Today; you have people who are willing to push my wagon without you. Even if you didn't back off, there's only so much I can do about it (LLD is even keeping me on the table rather than suspect you, though you would not have known it at the time).

If you're done with BBMolla, what about the role pairing with him and LLD?

[Vi]

I won't be able to post for a while.

[Vi]

...

Unvote: zakk

Not because of what zakk posted, mind.

[Vi]

There is no vanillizer. Some people have gained powers.

There is something missing from BBMolla's claim.

Otherwise skimming through, I am not convinced this game is locked up.

I'm on a plane. Will return in like five and a half hours.

[Vi]

Also Nacho never considered the actual reason I said BBMolla+LLD is too silly to consider.

[Vi]

Also I never considered a timeline approach to powers but I don't think that makes sense

[Vi]

!!!!!!!!

Remember the thing Salamence claimed literally at the beginning of the game? Y'know, the reason I told the hamster to look elsewhere.

Cut: wut

[Vi]

The plane doors are actually closed now. Etc.

[Vi]

!!!!!!!!

Remember the thing Salamence claimed literally at the beginning of the game? Y'know, the reason I told the hamster to look elsewhere.

Cut: wut

no

I didn't read anything Salamence posted

I was kind of betting on that

[Vi]

VOTE: Vi

Ah, that feels nice. I was worried I may never have gotten to type that again.

---

Serious vote? Not sure. Random vote? Not really.

Why say this unprompted?

I hate it when people don't have the balls to say one way or another, btw. Especially someone like you, Sal. A player who I happen to think has a particularly large set.

That said, your reasoning is acceptable. A shame you went so far out of your way to undercut it.

That one is on me.

I have to cover my tracks and play to a very high standard or UT will modkill me. Im pretty much not allowed to play the way I do with other games. Thats the deal.

So yeah, in the normal case, I would have gone out and said its a serious vote that demands some pressure, but Im playing it safe because people would probably think Im trolling or some shit.

In other news, Im glad to see its an acceptable reason for you, but why are you leaving your vote on Vi (rvs vote) rather than vote Kinetic or Plum if you believe in Jul's reasoning?

That said, I see Jul's reasoning with Plum, but I think the wagons should point towards kinetic

[Vi]

Safety announcement is on. Would appreciate the game not being over when I get back in.

[Vi]

Can someone with good internets show me something that could justify that?

[Vi]

Not justify but back up.

[Vi]

Seriously out of time now.

[Vi]

Five hours of flight down, five to go, small reprieve here and I'm not spending all of it on my phone.

A lot of the reason I thought Salamence was Town early on was because of his claim to be modkillable, which reads a lot like a softclaim.

With that said, as a game designer I think that regardless of BBMolla's alignment, the forensic investigator claim is probably real precisely because no one would actually fakeclaim a role like that. The fact that it got no result is sketchy, but etc.

In addition, there is evidence that there could be a Vanillizer in the game. There isn't one, at least not a straight one, but until Kagami gained powers I thought the same. In addition, Kagami flipped Town, so I think that scum are not responsible for the roles changing.

That Nacho is still getting this wrong makes me seriously distrust this wagon. That's my primary concern with this decision - if Nacho is Town and correct on BBMolla he will have been borderline prescient throughout the game, easily Town MVP, but this push on BeeBs does not pass the sniff.ready

[Vi]

*sniff test

Post was too long for phone

[Vi]

Hey BBMolla, really quick. Should I be interested in you?

ya my role is fucking cool but I don't know the flavor so I'm not 100% sure if it's useful

Posted on Day 2 while allegedly vanilla

This is my secret technique where I take a position and then immediately discover all the reasons it might not be correct

A quick check suggests BBMolla expressed suspicion of Nacho unprompted and in a timely manner fwiw

[Vi]

Nacho, I've gone over this already.

I'm about to fly again.

[Vi]

Lady Lambdadelta. What are you waiting for?

@Metal Sonic: if defense involves cutting his claims apart unprompted, sure
It looks better than your "BBMolla is scum because lol LOL bullshit" and then getting someone else to do the heavy lifting

[Vi]

Ditto.

[Vi]

Okay. Given that I've done "hard defense" of basically everyone except you in this game, your lethargy around the wagon is more likely to be indicative of alignment than my questions about the push on BBMolla.

Better?

Cut by LLD.

I don't think so. The post where he says he fakeclaimed D2 is simply too much to buy. I ultimately agree with Nacho that his actions make sense from a perspective where an elaborate hidden agenda exists.

I think I'm ready.

[Vi]

Yeah. There are only a few people who I expect to hammer and I'm okay with the risk of them doing so rashly.

(cut)

Vote to Hammer: BBMolla

[Vi]

Things that personally gratifying don't happen to me.

[Vi]

My second attempt at a connection is in less than fifteen minutes. Anything to ask or etc.?

[Vi]

Or more like fifteen seconds

[Vi]

Yeah. I screwed up the last Day by not going with what everyone was saying and voting zakk, and I screwed up in tremendous fashion by underestimating LLD. I don't think she would ever have gotten lynched.

If it were Nacho-scum instead of LLD-scum I'd say we were overmatched, but this was pretty preventable. The scum basically didn't have to do anything except sit and watch.

Oh, and.

LLD. You guilted me into staying in a game

you knew was emotionally harmful to me

. But I suppose my initial premise that you had boundaries was wrong to start with, so I got what was coming to me.

[Vi]

Nacho this is the worst game you've ever played.

Gg

Nacho did the best with what he had. We would have bagged zero scum if it weren't for him.

[Vi]

SINGER WAS FREAKING RIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jazzmyn

was freaking right as well. Plenty of credit.

[Vi]

Nacho this is the worst game you've ever played.

Gg

Nacho did the best with what he had. We would have bagged zero scum if it weren't for him.

Are you fucking kidding me

I started the cabD Wagon while People were jerking off over two other wagons

and no one cared

[Vi]

Metal Sonic, while I used it as an argument for you to be Town earlier, I did rescind my thought that you would not be as much of a kiss-on-the-crotch douchenozzle as an alignment tell. Please stop proving me right. It's postgame and we all got laid out hard.

You and Nacho thought zakk was almost the whole time. Me and Nacho thought LLD was Town almost the whole time. BBMolla gave a dayvig to scum. Everyone who was alive in that LyLo was there for a good reason.
You not only thought I was scum against all logic, but you managed to break someone who has been told repeatedly that they have the saintlike patience essentially for the fun of it. Also Plum.
Ranmaru's initial cases were, as you mentioned, long and basically useless (though he proceeded to get better).
vezokpiraka and Jazzmyn both undermined their credibility by going after me with the dumbest of attacks.
Kagami had considerable difficulty not looking offensively neutral in spite of inheriting a slot that I otherwise was not ready to entertain a lynch on.
Really the only people who did decently in the Town were RedCoyote and singersigner, and that's largely because I can't think of a flaw.

In other words, the entire Town lost, lost hard, it wasn't close, and very few people can say they're not ready for a fair heaping of blame for it. Let it be done.

I have to say I'm really impressed with how zakk was able to maintain himself Day 2.

[Vi]

Like you can blame me but I did fucking everything I could to stop you fucks from mislynxhing me.

And I correctly called who scum was sans nacho.

Literally fucking nothing else I could do.

Yeah. I screwed up the last Day. I thought what you were saying was plausible. Had you documented more of your Day 2 fakeclaim I would have believed you.

[Vi]

also represent, holding down the worst role in the game with literally no redeeming value

a shame, because I liked The Living Years

Also, am I reading the scum abilities wrong or were they massively OP as a faction? Like, yeah, 2xWatcher is nuts, but etc.

[Vi]

scum literally competing to hammer

I said you got better as the game went on (specifically, once you left those cases behind). I don't mean to denigrate the time and effort that went into those, but I don't think they were effective >.>

I... think I said at some point that I would talk something over with you, but... I've already forgotten, and I don't think I'm in a position to lecture. If you want me to try, I can. Otherwise, I regret to inform you that I'm only in the memeverse of Splatoon. ._.

You're one of the people I want to see again. Stop by sometime; you're cool.

[Vi]

LLD: I was hoping you would try to steal the power role I was totally crumbing.

But it looks like you could use
*each of your factional abilities once per Night but as often as you wanted
*AND your other abilities which like whoa

Those are a bunch more abilities than most of the Town got. From the Town side I appreciate the correction to the positive feedback that normally comes with scum starting to win, but the fact that it was so uncertain and the scum got more stuff too(!) was questionable.

Scum was still a hair away from losing

Explain, please.

I'd like to justify myself to Jazzmyn, but as with so many things during the game, it's... not worth it. I'm very sorry you see us this way, because anything me and LLD did was likely due to outside provocation (see: fifty pages of Master Zik going out of his way to escalate any tensions that may have developed).

Vi, it was lovely to play with you again; I really valued that opportunity and regret that I had to replace out. Sorry that, as we shared a faction, a lot of my play was mediocre (it was), and sorry you had some bad experiences with this game.

I was really disappointed I didn't get to have that talk with you. Anyway, you stop by again at some point yourself. Good luck on getting that doctorate!

[Vi]

Meh. On the one hand I said I don't want to play again, and I don't. This game took so much out of me for so long, losing so much, sinking so low. I don't expect another game to be better, and I deeply want to spend my free time doing something more productive with my life.

On the other hand, this isn't how I want things to end. I rejoined the game specifically because I wanted to have another chance to change the ending to the story. I don't know which goal I value more, or which I should value more.

[Vi]

@Vi

I am not exactly clear if your 2706 was meant to be an insult or a reach out to keep things cool so please clarify.

It's both. For homework, go back through your ISO and look at all the ways you found to steadily escalate any ill will I had toward you, and decide whether that was the right move or not.

(Pissing off Town players is a bad move regardless of alignment.)

I personally think I played a pretty reasonable game.

You did. I'm sorry our first game together couldn't have gone better.

[Vi]

...Yeah. It's useless to explain it to you.

Well, you're a known quantity, at least.

[Vi]

Spoiler: Also, side note

If anyone feels my play in this game was unethical, please PM me. I would love to talk with you.

Offhand, no, I can't think of anything. You did very well.

[Vi]

Positive criticism to Vi? Like he would ever listen.

Might as well try.

[Vi]

Vi I don't know that you've answered this and now that the game is over perhaps you'll humor us...why did you do it? What purpose did it serve? Why risk your status as a player, let alone as a mod, just to even the playing field?

It's actually really simple.

Metal Sonic is an epic-tier, hohum-class piece of shit on a personal level. It's even beyond the usual sorts of people we see as moderators, because they at least tend to have been provoked into awfulness. Metal Sonic does it for fun!

Remember this post?

Hey there Vi. I don't remember Zakk giving a suggestion for a Jazz vote.

Oh, Kagami. I've already asked someone who knows more about replacing out as scum what she thinks about that, answer pending.

That was a town-tell. I'm disengaging for now.

Curses!

Fuck you.

Vi had earlier put Jazzmyn in her town-reads. This is not a manner in which someone is supposed to treat a townread.

and fuck you

This is a particularly great paragraph of wisdom that I will certainly learn from and adapt into my games. I don't understand how you can possibly scumread Jazzmyn after this.

and fuck you

I particularly dislike the fact that she tried to weasel a scum motivation out of that translation. Instead of the word "complaining", she calls it "scumplaining" ... why? Through this word, she tried to elicit a negative connotation which suggests a slant that the action comes from "scum" or is "scum-motivated" -- even when the evidence presented does not lead to the conclusion. When questioned further: "Can you explain how the above is "scumplaining"? What is your thought process? There is a logic gap.", and she fails to answer. Simply, her premises are false, leading to a slimey conclusion that she hopes you folks would buy.

I like the part where Vi was flustered and expressed signs of unease when I brought up that SleepyKrew should be replaced.

Knowing that retired SleepyKrew had a tendency to doze off at inopportune timings, and a younger and fresher Master would bring vigor into the town and revive the slot, would always be a situation that scum would object to.

and fuck you SPOILER ALERT, ASSHOLE - I'M NOT RESPONDING TO SCUM OR PEOPLE I CAN'T CONVINCE, SOURCE: A WHOLE BUNCH OF MY POSTS WITH RANMARU

It's also a lot easier for town to be right about who's Town if one is good enough at Mafia.

and fuck you

Vi, if we're right that she's scum, is playing a formidable game.

and fuck you

It's your lucky day, Master: I'm going through your recent posts now!
I'd be interested in seeing what's "terribly wrong" on my end.

This is really simple.

I received a role PM that states that I'm Town.

Your read on me is bullshit. Which, considering the amount of thought you put into it, isn't very surprising.

and fuck you

Now everybody has noted it, I'd like to bring everybody's attention to Vi's hypocrisy when she talks about "blatant condescension and maniuplation"

and fuck you

Vi's tone and intent is to demotivate, discredit, and to attack.

I'm merely just stating neutral facts.

and fuck you

I'm glad we could have this conversation. I'm going out for a moment, and I might continue.

I hope you're attractive Vi, because Master Zik is not just skilled at Mafia...

At this point I've already gone from trying to work with Master Zik's scumread on me (considering I had been thinking he was scum since page 3) to wondering why he's being so obtuse to getting rather frustrated with how he seems to be going out of his way to antagonize me to openly flaming him in a way I've never done

to anyone

before. In Master Zik's position after seeing this post, there were basically two realistic options for going forward.
1) Assert that while you do indeed think that I'm scum, maybe things are getting a bit out of hand, and we should both work on making this civil. (and, ideally, actually do so)
2) ESCALATE THAT SUCKER

YEAAAAAAH

On the bright side, he did try to calm it down afterward, albeit in the most condescending way he could find. And so we wound up here.

With all due respect Miss Vi, you are in no position to judge whether my play is "bad" or "anti-town". Unless you have basis for my reads being wrong or poor, and the only argument you can make for this is my half-wrong push on RedCoyote, you should stop pushing that argument.

I'm already playing a better game than you by not resorting to raw Appeal To Emotion such as this. <shows full quote again>

Thanks for the compliment, but no thanks.

If I was scum, your vote would never be on me for more than 72 hours

You are implying that you are able to catch my scumgame, which, when you have fully internalized that to its core, is unlikely to be the case.

I understand your sentiment, and I thank you for the compliment, but it does not work that way, hon~

But hey, people can say I'm the most arrogant and condescending person in the game, if not the most so they've ever met. That's totally fine and absolutely accurate.

I mean, I had already requested replacement specifically to get away from the toxic environment that he was causing for me (and I've already had a private conversation about how that did not come about). At that time, I hated him without reservation, was thoroughly sick of his attitude, and wanted to do anything in my power to hurt him. He conveniently presented that weak point of how protective he was of his identity (except when he wasn't), and one night I decided to take advantage of it. Leveling the playing field had nothing to do with it. There was no strategic reason. The aggressor was then conflated with the origin, and thus we received another lesson in the perks of being the perfect doormat.

I'm over it. I'm really not that upset or surprised to see posts from Metal Sonic and vezokpiraka or Jazzmyn like what they have been in postgame. I couldn't convince them that my side exists or might have a shred of understandability if I wanted to, so it's not worth trying. They can think I'm an indelibly horrible person if they want (I can already see the responses to this post! "Well I already had a 0% chance of thinking you were a decent person and not at all a disgrace to the moderating team of mafiascum dot net, but after reading this I'm really,

really

certain. I hope you get attacked by a crocodile."), and it'll be mutual, and we'll just not occupy the same space from now on. My life doesn't end with this game and it isn't limited to this site. There are better places for me to be and better people to be around.

[Vi]

Alright, clearly there were two major errors on your part:

1. Your two strongest townreads were scum. Your scumreads were town.
2. Your confidence in your reads was far too high.

Your post-game commentary seems to mostly focus on other members of the town being "scummy" in one way or another, and thus deserving of your suspicion. That your two strongest townreads were scum suggests that the issue is primarily on your end, however. Clearly your model of "scumminess" needs to be heavily re-evaluated.

The inaccuracy of your model is compounded by your overconfidence. You made it essentially impossible to lynch the two scum players, making it 100% safe for them to give town the double-lynch. It also lead you to disregard the more accurate reads of your fellow town. I think part of the issue here is that you view "neutralness" as scummy and thus avoid it unnaturally.

As a specific criticism of your model, you seem to value "tone" over more objective information. It doesn't seem to me that at any point you considered the ramifications of singer's kill, nor did you look for associations with the flipped scum. Instead you plowed ahead using your feelies from day 2.

Affirmed. I acknowledge that I made it impossible to lynch LLD, and that I went off the plan to lynch zakk. I screwed up impressively.

I did consider the ramifications of singersigner's kill and looked at associations with the flipped scum, and I posted both of these inthread. I did reason that the singersigner kill was made because the scum were not threatened by the Town bloc (and they weren't), though I didn't consider her reads. I mentioned this to Metal Sonic D4, but came to the conclusion that no one alive D4 was particularly threatened by the Town bloc on D3. That was what led me to initially suspect Ranmaru, though him dying overNight caused some trouble with that read. I was surprised that LLD was not dead N1 (over RedCoyote, who was in a similar political position but more broadly suspected), and Nacho not dead N2 and N3 (despite claiming a power role and being a universal Town read), but I couldn't really do much with that except be deeply concerned that there was scum in the Town bloc (and LLD was going to be the last person I picked out of there). I did actually discuss with you that Cabd-scum made zakk-scum most likely of the people he discussed because Cabd's read on him was even more obviously made of paper than his other reads, but you shot it down.

Looking at the reads of the other Town players is easier when 1) I understand that they're Town, and 2) they're not using things like the Rule of So. I dismissed Jazzmyn completely out of hand for that and basically being a Scumread PGO. I don't know what to do with this, since we're necessarily making this argument in hindsight and assigning considerably more weight to correct scum reads than anything else.

With regard to overconfidence, yeah, the bloc was probably pushing it. However, that's what you're supposed to do with solid Town reads. Part of the reason you landed in trouble was because I lost confidence in my (well-founded) Town read on Plum, and I pulled zakk from my Town read list after a short while on Day 2, so saying that I just don't reconsider reads would be inaccurate. With regard to making sure your core Town reads are definitely, bedrock, completely Town, well, yes, I thought I had done that. I was wrong. In other words, I'm saying I had the right approach but didn't vet it for quality control well enough. Would you disagree?

"Tone" being wrong became evident once I realized that I had Town reads on almost everyone that way, but I also had reason to think that everyone was scum based on what they were actually doing (except Nacho, and even then Nacho was making a push on BBMolla that I didn't trust). I was simply ineffective on the last Day for this reason.

I'm having a little trouble with what specifically I could have done better (aside from being able to read LLD D1, surrendering my Town read on your slot D2, and going off the plan to lynch zakk D4) without any knowledge from the game that I did not have at the time. Postgame, it's easy to say "oh well

clearly

" but what would be very helpful would be picking out the things that were definitely identifiable mistakes at the time they were made.

Actually I didn't. Vi outed me, and I was active at the time of the post so there was no point hiding any more. I "confirmed" Vi's confirmation.

Vi did out me, even though I have made it clear multiple times that I did not want it to do so. This is clearly a purposeful abuse of moderator power.

Affirmed.

Firstly, this is over the line. I'm been absolutely patient with you, but this is enough. I've been taking your abuse, when all I have done was for attempting to determine your alignment

Ditto. That is basically what I was saying to you. Do you see how this sentiment is going both ways, and would you like to stop this from going on?

and lo-and-behold! You were the hardest defender of scum in the entire game! Apparently, you still have the cheek to blame others for not townreading you enough.

How you were reading me had little to do with it.

[Vi]

@vi

The thing is that I know you from long ago. You were the only friendly face I ever saw on this site. Everyone said I was awful and you were actually defending me. I thought of you very highly.

Now you come in and hurt one of my best friends on site and start saying you are always right.

You were very modest and aleays helpful 3 or so years ago. What happened Vi?

All references to professional abyss-gazing aside,
*I don't think I said I was always right. I'm certainly strong-willed but I'm not going to claim I'm always factually correct (in fact I just got done with a post where I pretty unequivocally confessed to being a large part of the problems this Town had).
*That same strong will that saw the best in you three years ago and was willing to speak out about it has tried to see the best in Metal Sonic and failed, and is willing to speak out about it.
*(In fact, the person I saw the best in and spoke out about in this game was Ranmaru.)

Did this memory of me affect your read on me ingame?

Yet another example of why it bothers me that no one bothers used NKA anymore. Scum know they can get away with the more obvious kills because people don't really pay attention to them past "oh maybe PR hunting" or "well they were obv town". Like, who cares about killing obv town if you've got them town reading you?

It's closer to the truth to say that I didn't use it well. <.<