Mini 1722: Warcraft III - Reign of MAFIA (DOOM HAS COME)

[FA_Q2]

/confirm

VOTE: ABR

I cant even figure out what you are trying to do!

[FA_Q2]

He meant to say character or role flavour(like he clarified) which is fairly ambigious but I think he slipped and said role.

I dunno that makes me think he has a scourge character.

Eh I dunno null. It doesn't particularly indicate anything. Actually wait

@ Brantz are you familiar with warcraft lore?

@inte The light will help you soon see the error of your ways.

And you voted him for it. This makes me think that you do NOT have a scourge character and since the BURNING LEGION is town...

VOTE: Shiro

Ir is possible that you hardslipped here (and Ironic as that was what you were fingering him for). Interesting followup by fire as well...

[FA_Q2]

Shiro, what is your faction flavor?

[FA_Q2]

Almost all of the win conditions are phrased differently, because I was lazy when writing all flavor entertainment. There is one scumteam in this game - trying to fight the Undead Scourge. The Burning Legion is this game's town. Don't try to play on role PM details in this game.

this is not a point on phraseology - it is a point that shiro directly engaged ABR claiming he might have slipped scum and pulled scourge:

Actually I think ABR slipped l think He meant to say character(possible cause scourge) but accidentally said role. It makes no sense to say the one role he didn't want when roles are closed and you can't anticipate anything.

VOTE:ABR

This strongly implies that shiro is NOT scourge to me and slipped up.

[FA_Q2]

Still not flavor claiming. Why?

[FA_Q2]

Arthas v. Mal'Ganis in Reign of Chaos

Arthas was still a paladin at that juncture so I don't think that really applies, unless I'm seriously forgetting something.
Even then, wasn't that fight more personal than anything else? I don't really remember the details.

I'm aware this discussion isn't terribly constructive but I loved WC3 as a kid and the story was so interesting to me.

Some people need to start talking more.

Then help me wagon brantz or something.

Why brantz?

[FA_Q2]

I should not forget about games I'm in.

unvote

I need to think this through. Nothing screams scum from the posts

until now

. Also I strongly believe ABR isn't scum. We can revisit this another day, but for now a wagon on him is dumb.

I assume that was an error as it makes no sense to me without naming what screams scum...

Further, Why would you 'strongly' believe ABR isn't scum on page 5 as he has posted zero content? I see nothing to base a strong town read on ABR.

[FA_Q2]

I'm not sure flavour or faction claiming is wise at this point. At least without pressure.

Because...

[FA_Q2]

I'm definitely town.

Alright, let's do this.

Vote: Shiro

Me not like this.
Me like his brains.
VOTE: Albert B. Rampage

I hope you have a posting restriction because this type of posting is simply annoying.

[FA_Q2]

So, FA - Let's talk further on your scum thought with Shiro.
Do you really think that scum wouldn't know who they need to kill?

In this particular case it is not all that difficult to get mixed up in what faction belongs where. I don't believe that he was unaware of what faction he is though and he voted for someone based off the faction they belonged to. I think he slipped. I, myself, thought I was scum when I read my role PM at first (I mean undead must be the bad guys, right) but didn't have the usual info (teammates/PT thread) so I asked the mod for clarification. I can easily see where someone might slip early in the game in RVS as that stage is mostly random banter and scum do not have to be as careful in what they say.

Further, it is anti-town to not claim flavor once he was called out on mixing the factions up. In general, flavor does not reveal roles and is not harmful to openly discuss. As he is so hesitant to do so I can only draw the conclusion that he avoided doing so for all this time and was so resistant because he didn't want to have to make something up and start with the lies so early. If there was a role conflict (as in the flavor clearly reveals the role) he could have easily made such a statement as the reason he was not flavor claiming. That would have been acceptable as well. Again, considering that we don't have examples of roles PM's I think he is avoiding doing so because it might implicate him. I understand that the MOD pointed out that the details are not constant so playing off them are a bad idea but I was not looking for details or phraseology - I was mostly looking for a flavor character - I see that as somewhat difficult and chancy to lie about yet not helpful to scum if he were telling the truth.

I think this is the best case at the moment as there is zero case anywhere else so that is why my vote is there. We need some more talk and the game is somewhat stalled right now. You seem to disagree with my assessment earlier so what are your reads (if you have any) and why?

[FA_Q2]

Nethersprite softclaimed scourge?

?

Everyone is going to claim scourge. Do you have a point?

[FA_Q2]

Everyone is going to claim scourge.

disagree

?

[FA_Q2]

Shiro is giving me mixed feelings.

vote shiro

Let's see how this goes.

I had to post one since ABR mentioned it.

Ok here is the deal can you like not lynch me until day 3? Or if there is a vig kill me n2

I am going to flavour claim as well and further complicate things

I am Arthas crowned prince of lordaeron and soon to be the first death Knight

I have picked up frostmourne and corrupted my soul. At the end of day 2 I will join the burning Legion thus be capable of winning with them. I can't win if I don't survive till the end of day 2.

That is why was confused. Because Arthas when he got corrupted ended up killing mal ganis who was commanding the scourge at the time.

Role stays secret till l-1 and intent, though ftr iT is also delayed till night 2

This makes sense and I think it is overly complex for a fake claim.

UNVOTE: for the time being. I need to think on this a little more.

[FA_Q2]

I don't understand how Shiro's claim makes him third party.

Town's wincon is lynch all scum.
Shiro wincon is survive and maybe kill scum. Probably doesn't contain kill scum anywhere.

In conclusion Shiro has a different wincon. That means he doesn't have the town wincon. That means he is third party.

Seriously guys, this ain't that hard.

His post was crystal clear. You are being obtuse here - he essentially stated he has a town win-con that states he loses entirely if lynched to early. It fits the lore as well and think that (if true) it was a very nice addition by the MOD. It also makes no sense to fake something like this so it seems genuine to me (as well as fills in the blank about not wanting to claim earlier).

Though, in all honesty, Shiro could have simply claimed corrupted Arthas way back when I first asked and it would not have been such a big deal IMHO.

[FA_Q2]

This game is boring.

Only for lack of commenting.

Want it to be more interesting - say something. For the most part Shiro seems to be out - do you have any reads. From your ISO I get nothing at all. You mentioned Vezok's vote but not what you think of his alignment.

[FA_Q2]

This game is boring.

Only for lack of commenting.

Want it to be more interesting - say something. For the most part Shiro seems to be out - do you have any reads. From your ISO I get nothing at all. You mentioned Vezok's vote but not what you think of his alignment.

Sure.

Off the top of my head - I think you're town.
I kind of think Shiro is town.
I liked TSB's entrance, so townlean there.

I don't really like vezok so much, mostly because his analysis of Shiro seems skin-deep.
I'm already voting brantz so that shouldn't be much of a mystery at this point.

That's kind of where I'm at atm.

brantz was an rvs vote for you, was it not?

[FA_Q2]

Brains! I sense fresh human brains!

VOTE: vezokpiraka

This seems really opportunistic. I don't really like naked votes and the timing is rather suspicious to me.

[FA_Q2]

So, FA - I don't really understand your stance on vezokpiraka. Can you explain it.

That is because I have not really taken one yet.

Vez being obtuse about shiro's wincon is rather null to me. It is not scummy to push bad logic - its just bad logic (IMHO). Even more so as the shiro wagon is obviously not going anywhere atm. I don't really get a read on him either way for it.

[FA_Q2]

Guys I am in Limited Access (Busy), please Tag / Highlight me in posts, if you want a response. I don't have any strong reads as of now, and can't really find anything alarming except for ABR's fanatics of the game. Which could have been a distraction tactic, although I am currently leaning on him just being a fan of the game.

As others have stated - really bad...

ISO - completely blank.

Your single vote: on the mod.

VOTE: Gale Wing Srock

You didn't even bother with a date where you might end your 'lurking' status. Your defense when called out was not to give any insight but rather pull a 'so are you' moment. (208)

[FA_Q2]

do you fuckboys not remember Post 52 and Post 56

"VOTE:ABR"

"He meant to say character or role flavour(like he clarified) which is fairly ambigious but I think he slipped and said role. I dunno that makes me think he has a scourge character. "

like really

Us 'fuckboys' remember quite clearly and we have already discussed/closed that issue. Should you have more to say then you should bother to say it. You also might try doing so without being an ass about it as well.

[FA_Q2]

So what is your 3p role? Half assed claims are meh!

Since you write "also". Do you believe Shiro to be third party?

Claiming now I assume you do not agree with vezo regarding lynching 3 p. Is vezo scummier or townier for wanting to lynch 3p?

I am just neutral man.

I just need to survive the war.

W. T. H.

Why? Why would you claim at this time?

[FA_Q2]

So what is your 3p role? Half assed claims are meh!

Since you write "also". Do you believe Shiro to be third party?

Claiming now I assume you do not agree with vezo regarding lynching 3 p. Is vezo scummier or townier for wanting to lynch 3p?

I am just neutral man.

I just need to survive the war.

W. T. H.

Why? Why would you claim at this time?

When else should he claim?
Do you have some sort of issue with his claim?

I don't see how it helps town - or him for that matter.

The claim was pointless. He claimed a 3rd party who is pretty much anti-town.

VOTE: firebringer

I don't see a reason not to lynch the actual 3rd party here.

[FA_Q2]

I can't wait for this to blow up in your face.

My role will literally kill you.

really...

[FA_Q2]

I don't see how it helps town - or him for that matter.

The claim was pointless. He claimed a 3rd party who is pretty much anti-town.

VOTE: firebringer

I don't see a reason not to lynch the actual 3rd party here.

Its fake scum hunting.
My win condition does not go against anyones win condition.

You are just too lazy to actually scumhunt.

Even the Wiki disagrees:
http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Survivor
"Survivors are traditionally considered anti-Town and thus premium lynch targets."

There is a damn good reason for this - you don't care if the scum or town wins and therefor will vote wherever it helps YOU. That pretty much makes you a ticking time bomb.

[FA_Q2]

VOTE: Bbrantz

You mind explaining this then.

If you want to get to scum hunting that would be the best way.

You are an explosive sheep ?...Really ? Ok that sounds pretty trollish from the mod

No, not trollish at all. Has been in the game since the beginning. Was one of those Easter eggs in Warcraft 2 - keep clicking on a sheep (or any critter I think) and it would explode into a paste though it did not hurt anything. ABR gives some more interesting flavor elements as well.

I still do not see how this matters though - he is still 3rd party. Further, if he is telling the truth then a simple straight lynch may not activate him at all. I don't know what the threshold is and he either does not know or is not sharing it at this time.

[FA_Q2]

Why am I playing with newbs? Did I join rtr?

Third parties are antitown. This is basic mafia theory. There is no pro-toen third party.

thank you.

VOTE: Firebringer

UNVOTE:

actually, his flavor makes sense.

This was EXTREMELY unhelpful.

If fire is telling the truth (and I find that VERY likely) then you either vote him or do not. No extra clicks here, please.

[FA_Q2]

I'm reluctant because from a flavor standpoint, it's entirely plausible

Really the question I think you should be asking is would it matter?

He claimed 3p - true 3p. A vote there has exactly zero percent chance of hitting town.

[FA_Q2]

And outing his role specifically loses all utility that it might have had for town as well.

[FA_Q2]

Why are we all super concerned with 3p claims exactly?

because we have one right in front of us...

We have a situation that is going to need to be dealt with at some point. I don't understand the resistance.

[FA_Q2]

i was testing his grit obv

3p should definitely die but its lower on my radar

why are these four people voting vezok: BRantz, Vedith, Netherspite, The Silver Bard

Were there even any posts between your vote and unvote that were not yours?

Testing his grit? That sounds like a pile of BS to me. Scummy.

[FA_Q2]

ok fa is ignored for being a dumbass

Sure.

This your way of trying to ignore the fact that you have been scummy?

[FA_Q2]

I wonder if scum would defend me...

Absolutely if they think that the lynch is going to be diverted to a town player. No if they were the counter.

You are a player that the scum does not have to worry about.

[FA_Q2]

Ok my resolve to lynch him just got raised to 11

Classic new player replacing at the sign of early pressure

You want to lynch before we hear from the replacement....

I have not seen this mythical new player replaces when pressured but have seen this argument eluded to many times.

[FA_Q2]

Ok my resolve to lynch him just got raised to 11

Classic new player replacing at the sign of early pressure

You want to lynch before we hear from the replacement....

I have not seen this mythical new player replaces when pressured but have seen this argument eluded to many times.

What's the conclusion you're drawing from this?

That it is a null tell.

I don't necessarily see replacing as inherently scummy as so many seem to. If the player was scummy before they are still scummy during/after replacement. If they were towny before they are still towny during/after replacement.

184 makes me lean scum for gale. His replacing out is meaningless to my read. I wanted to know why shiro was so hot on him replacing meaning he is scum. I do see him as a viable alternative should fire fall though but I still think that fire is the best lynch for today. I also do not like wagoning a player that is clearly not here to defend himself so a conversation on gale is going to have to wait for his replacement before it is a viable lynch target.

[FA_Q2]

Scummy.

Why?

[FA_Q2]

I usually would agree with FB but I am not a fan of survivors. I will need to discuss this with SW.

~Titus

???

This a hydra then?

[FA_Q2]

silverwolf and titus

This should be interesting. Played plenty of games with both - never with both as one slot.

[FA_Q2]

I'm getting a disturbing feeling from Net. He spoke of being allied with Burning Legion (town), yet talks of eating brains and slaying humans. He said he was playing to his role pm but it doesn't give me a pro-town feeling.

@Performer-Why is this scummy to you?

~SW

-Claimed he's allied with Burning Legion (town). Ok, that's a slight good start. Not enough to townread off that but it was in the right direction
-Yet he keeps speaking of eating brains and slaying humans in his posts (none of that sounds town)
-He doesn't want to vote a 3p (Fire)
-He spoke of Survivors being able to play pro-town

It's way too risky for 3p to stick around to hope they will help town. Instead, they could end up contributing to mislynching town.

@Net do you have some townreads - if so, who are they and why? Do you have other scumreads too - if so, who are they and why?

What is your flavor character performer

[FA_Q2]

@Nether how am I misunderstanding the sides? From what I understand, the Scourge and Legion are united against scum. I even made sure with the mod when I got the role pm, so I would know what side I’m on.

I fully understand you were playing to role pm but it still struck me as awkward. I will put that aside then.

So the humans are our enemies and you consider me scum for wanting their brains?

I'm used to playing in games where humans are town are good guys. And people who talk about killing them and eating brains = bad guys.
It's a big switch in mindset.
Sorry for the misunderstanding, Net. : /

And you did not note this when you read your PM.

Ya, you are scum.

[FA_Q2]

VOTE: FB

Obviously this is going no where else.
ABR and Vez seem a likely scum pair for me.

Why do you think they are a pair?

[FA_Q2]

Oh, I really didn't expect

Shiro

to lie about wincon.
Arthas becoming undead was making sense.
Well then, we got rid of one scum.

Also I'm kinda disappointed Ghoul ain't unique flavor. I thought everyone would have his own flavor ><

Still, this one is scum:
VOTE: vezokpiraka

The conflict with Shiro makes this less likely.

No it does not.

I don't see where you draw that from.

No FA either.

Ditto above.

There is nothing there that would make either of us more likely town with Shiro's flip. Going back through his ISO, I am surprised how little info he put out there without being called out on it.

[FA_Q2]

Lol, just realized that voting me at this point is basically a scumclaim.
Just because I softclaimed and roleplayed a Ghoul before anyone ever mentioned it and before we had the flip of another Ghoul.

I wouldn't go that far.

It is not a far stretch to have not noted that.

[FA_Q2]

Derp 398 is Gale. Meant to grab a different quote for Shaded, but my point is the same.

Yes but your point is valid on performers slot - it really is not on mine or vez.

He town read me and nulled vez. I think we can pretty much strike performer a a likely suspect for now and ABR less so. Those pushes are not something I would expect as a bus move (particularly as a traitor). What I am less sure of is who his partners actually were.

[FA_Q2]

I'm the vig guys.

This is for not lynchig all third parties.

wth is this shit for though - you have no reason to be claiming.

[FA_Q2]

Whoa whoa. I was townreading you and was null on Vez? I didn't say that in my recent reads list in 569.

Vez's swinging of votes from Fire to me, claiming that the reason for voting me was that he saw the same “scumslip” from Bran – that's a fluff reason to vote me. Add in his unwarranted Vig claim on d2 – and I’m still not getting the best feeling about him. I have a theory about him but I don't think it's the right time to bring it up yet.

Care to read that again.

We were having a discussion on how Shiro's interactions affected reads due to the fact that he flipped scum. SHIRO had a town read on me and a null read on vez.

[FA_Q2]

Nevermind, looks like just flavor. Would like the mod to confirm though.

...

I really have no idea how you can take the direct statement that you lose any other way ABR. It was crystal clear.

[FA_Q2]

Actually I think ABR slipped l think He meant to say character(possible cause scourge) but accidentally said role. It makes no sense to say the one role he didn't want when roles are closed and you can't anticipate anything.

VOTE:ABR

I like where I am voting

Bard came in made one post that appeases both sides(Showed concern over me and voted vezokpiraka) and left.

Vezokpiraka I am so-so part of me thinks he read that post as 3p cause he is scum and concerned about it cause town should even be thinking about 3p so Early. But yea not certain

Fa is town I think so is neather.

Fa reaction was really town.

Neather I doubt scum would rp like that.

Null on the rest, maaaaybe a small town lean on fire

Yeah, maybe performer is town, so is abr.

vote fa

This though is scum as fuck.

From the random rear end of Vez.

[FA_Q2]

VOTE: The Silver Bard

Yeah I'll go here for now.

Why?

Naked votes are... naked.

[FA_Q2]

@Net what do you think about vez's role between the discussion of Shiro & I, on d1?

?

AFAIK, Shiro has not claimed a sex and therefore is whatever you want to refer to 'it' as

I don't pay attention anyway to the she/he thing and never understood when someone got upset that they were called by the incorrect pronoun. Who really cares - I don't care if you referred to me as a she - as long as I actually understood what you were saying.

[FA_Q2]

VOTE: fa_q2

What's with this vote?

@FA my mistake - I thought Shiro is female.

Well, I have no idea how I missed that - the above statement was supposed to quote this post instead on the one by performer...

[FA_Q2]

@FA - What's your read on TSB?

He does not have a whole lot but I really do not get a scum vibe from him. He is a town lean at this point.

[FA_Q2]

Inte seems the most scummy to be honest but that has a lot to do with the fact that inte really is not posting anything at all. The only real post of his seems to be his vote on me but he is not really pushing that at all. Just a blank vote.


His ISO reads like someone that wants to be forgotten.
VOTE: inte

[FA_Q2]

They may not know that Shiro was the traitor, but perhaps they knew that there was a traitor and that this traitor was Arthas. After Shiro claimed Arthas they would then know who the traitor was.

I don't really think it's possible.
That would kill the whole point of him being the Traitor and not the scum team member.
Claiming => he's technically their scumbuddy now with a healing powers.
I consider it possible (but unlikely) that they know there is a Traitor but knowing his role flavor is just too much.

You might be right. But why would Shiro claim if he didn't believe his scummates would understand that it was a message to them?

He pretty much put himself right into to line of fire. With such a gambit there would have to be a reward for doing it.

Because he was forced to.

He was being pushed because of his slip that he was not scourge.

[FA_Q2]

FA and shinobi scumteam. GOGOGOGO.

And shiro tried to call me out on a slip because he just does not like his teammates, right. Good case you have there.

What is your case on shinobi again, I must have missed that one.

[FA_Q2]

@FA - Do you think that Shinobi is town or scum?

I am null on shinobi right now. Looking through his ISO does not really yield anything scummy to me and he has been active. I am bothered by the fact that I cannot remember any real stance that he has taken other than being against the fire wagon and I am inherently mistrustful of players that don't really stick out. That is not much of a case which is one reason I would not mind vez actually posting a real case against shinobi - I would like to see more from that slot.

[FA_Q2]

This is making me uncomfortable. inte wagon is at L-1, but there's dubious persons on it and the growth is weird. On the other hand inte is on the same wagon as me and I might be wrong about FA.

Also I don't know who I want to vig or if I will vig at all.

Never waste your vig. Well almost never and certainly not on night 2.

If you are town then that is a town controlled NK, cant pass that up. You are wrong about me though - I am town.

[FA_Q2]

Never waste your vig. Well almost never and certainly not on night 2.

That's a terrible comment... You use your vig power to suit the situation, not to suit what night it is.

Meh - it is true for the vast majority of situations.

More importantly, it is true for THIS situation - the only one that really matters in this game at this moment.

[FA_Q2]

Town

FA
Inte
Vezok
Vedith
Performer

Scum

Netherspite
Bard
Call of the Wild
Shinobi

In no particular order.

Why CotW and nether?

I am not sure about CotW but I am fairly confident that nether is town.

[FA_Q2]

Please everyone answer

, I want to know who is willing to lynch those in this list, whether today or day 3:

Netherspite
Bard
Call of the Wild
Shinobi

Thank you for your cooperation.

I don't agree with nether at this point. I still do not see why so many are scum reading him - where is the case. Other than that, the other three are candidates.

[FA_Q2]

Like?

A better idea would be putting up a case for someone else that is more convincing.

[FA_Q2]

See, this is why Shinobi and Netherspite don't redeem themselves. They tease an unvote on an obvious town, and do nothing about it. All words and no actions, you don't feel any sincerity in their posts. They make cute noises and then go back into hiding, making it easier for a mislynch.

If

The Silver Bard

will do that (place a hammer tomorrow) I'll consider it a scumclaim as I said and will be voting him until me or him will get lynched.
What other actions do you expect me to do?

I don't know about ABR but I actually expect you to vote for someone you want lynched. You appear to be voting someone that you do not want lynched and that is scummy as hell.

You mention that you consider it a scum claim if he hammers but not the result of the flip. Now THAT is what interests me. I would think that a town voting for who he thought was scum would not only not be upset with a claimed hammer a day in advance (this is a pro town action) but would certainly not center all their posts around a TOWN flip of who they are voting.

I have been critical of those that think you are scum up untill now - I am doubting my hesitation to vote you now. Nothing that you have been posting makes any sense from a town perspective over the last few pages and this last post is the worst of all. TSB GAVE you an out - you are refusing to take it and then unceremoniously declaring HIM scum because you are not taking it. All while speaking as though you are assuming your vote is on a player that will flip town...

UNVOTE:

I am still interested in an inte lynch but am unvoting for now to see some more discussion on Nether. I am seriously doubting his alignment and that brains fiasco is no longer as strong as it seemed to me earlier.

[FA_Q2]

I'll prolly get mislynched for that but I'm like 80% sure that's the right vote today:

VOTE: Call of the Wild

• Completely ignored by
  Shiro
  . Both before and after replacement. Excluding the "hi" gif.
• Pushing survivor instead of scumhunting D1.
• Pushing 95% conftown
  Vezokpiraka
  now.

That + today overall posting is enough for me.
However, there are more unreliable evidences like

shadowezz

's phrasing in #73 - he says that

scum is fighting against the Scourge

, not that town is

trying to take control over the Azeroth

. The phrasing is from the scum wincon and the first Mod post, not from the town role PM (yeah I do realize that town could look at the Mod's first post as well, that's why this one is unreliable).

Misrepping does not help much. Where is CotW pushing Vez.

[FA_Q2]

I still want to lynch inte and FA.

That is new - when did you suddenly decide to lynch me and why?

[FA_Q2]

FA, inte, let's go.

While open to the diea, you have not presented WHY you want us to vote for CotW. Lets start there.

I am somewhat tired of the interaction that they are having with nether and I am no closer to sorting out nethers alignment after pages of bullshit. There is still inte and it is damn convenient for him to simply vanish over this entire exchange waiting for his wagon to completely fall apart. Never once defended himself. I don't like that one little bit. Tell me why CotW is a better goto than inte.

[FA_Q2]

Anatole I don't emotionally manipulate as scum. I've had that used against me before to the point where a friend of mine had to apologize to me post game awhile ago. I don't believe in it. I can get emotional regardless of align, but I don't use it to manipulate. If I have emotions they are real.

I am not opposed to lynching bard. Why do you think he is scum?

~SW

Yes, wolf, you do. Real or not, you use those emotions as part of your core play. That defeatist attitude you have is also something that I associate with wolf scum. I am used to wolf town being nasty as shit when she gets mislynched and certainly not defeatist. More than anything else, this is what makes me think that you really are scum.

VOTE: CotW

[FA_Q2]

I love how none of you who have voted me, or who have said they think I might be scum have mentioned any reasons. Closest thing to a reason is Vedith having a gutfeeling.

And what are we supposed to go on other than gut with you considering that you have not said anything of merit.

I love how you leave that little detail out...

[FA_Q2]

FA is lying. The only time he's ever voted me based on emotions is when he's been scum and I'm town. He's ignoring everything else and making it about me is a huge red flag. He knows emotions are not alignment indicative for me and that I'd never emotionally manipulate as scum. I was holding back waiting to see who would hop on and why so I could catch scum. FA has not been active which is s scumtell of his and his vote and the reasoning for it reeks of opportunism.

~SW

When I am scum and you are town?

Perhaps you can link them to the last game that happened...

You have to go a long way back silver - all the way to USMB. I dont even remember those games anymore. What you stated is nothing short of a bald faced lie. The last game I remember that you were scum you were not only defeatist but ended up giving up: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... start=4075

You were emotional there as well and I called you out that game for your anti-town reasoning. You can also look at any game we have ever been in together - you also OMGUS me EVERY SINGLE TIME I VOTE FOR YOU. Notice the claim you make over and over and over in the linked game as well concerning my posting - you claim I lied about your meta, about your posting and about essentially everything that I stated. You like to level that charge a LOT - when you are scum at least.

[FA_Q2]

I am really interested in hearing your other heads statements about our exchange as well CotW.

[FA_Q2]

Also, the 'scumtell' about activity for me really is bald faced lie. Those interested should look into my other games here - all of which beside my first newbie game I am town. Activity, on most players, is not alignment indicative.

[FA_Q2]

No.

I find that rather hard to believe. Who did you target?

[FA_Q2]

The whole exchange by SW and FAQ2 leaves out the true option. SW is emotional as wither alignment and emotion from scum is presumed to be fake rather than legit. Emotion is rarely faked. I subbed in for SW in a game where the emotion was real.

Sw, stop fighting town. Also, why did you say we're a VT when we're a ghoul cop?

That was never in contention. The defeatist attitude was.

And the lies.

[FA_Q2]

How does you being a crypt lord make you check for ghouls at night?

I don't know why the mod did that. I can guess the mod made it that Ghouls are made in the crypt. Crypt Lord manages the crypt. Manages is a poor choice of word but I'm drunk.

This makes no sense.

In fairness, the flavor does not really have to make much sense. The fact she is not a named character though - that bothers me with her claim. Lets see what her answer is to who was targeted.

[FA_Q2]

The whole exchange by SW and FAQ2 leaves out the true option. SW is emotional as wither alignment and emotion from scum is presumed to be fake rather than legit. Emotion is rarely faked. I subbed in for SW in a game where the emotion was real.

Sw, stop fighting town. Also, why did you say we're a VT when we're a ghoul cop?

That was never in contention. The defeatist attitude was.

And the lies.

I'm saying you both were talking past each other. You're accusing SW of emotionally manipulating. SW implies she's not emotional as scum. Both are wrong.

That is unless I'm totally misunderstanding.

She gets a defeatist attitude. That's why I'm here. I never go down without a fight unless I'm certain that my lynch benefits town. I don't see that happening, so I'll do what needs to be done.

Now, talk to me about Nether. He's obvious scum. Why aren't you voting him?

You are but it is rather immaterial.

I am not voting nether because so far the case has really been 'he is obvious scum.'

Not so much.

[FA_Q2]

To be fair, I wasn't crumbing the results, the target asked and answered in a manner that revealed the results.

?

Now I have to repeat ABR:
This makes no sense.

[FA_Q2]

Read 885 please. It's a scumclaim to crumb VT.

How so?

He role played his part and that is something that I am not all that suspicious of in a themed game such as this.

[FA_Q2]

You don't have a solid case on Netherspite. What you do have, is a rare chance to prove Nether's guilt beyond any reasonable doubt.

This is what I need you to do. I need you to prove that he's scum. I know that if you're town, you won't lie about your result tomorrow. You have integrity. This is why I'm willing to trust you when you say that you will come back with proof tomorrow on Nether. If you're lying scum, we will lynch you, as simple as that.

I fail to understand how this will prove nethers alignment. Should he read as vanilla he could still be a 'mafia goon' in this games setup. CotW did claim VC correct?

You also did not mention directly weather or not your role is a named character.

[FA_Q2]

I'm a named character. It will prove Nether's alignment because he claimed to be a ghoul. Titus believes that the mod gave him a VT fakeclaim which he used to crumb ghoul on Day 1. There's a small chance that this is true. If so, checking him would return a non-ghoul result, confirming his lie, and reveal him as scum.

since when?

A VC gets the same result from a VT as they do a mafia goon. Even though this is a themed game, the general way a role works is not changed AFAIK. They would get a vanilla result even if nether was a standard mafia goon whatever the flavor surrounding it is. Are you claiming otherwise CotW?

[FA_Q2]

Not necessarily.

Godfathers can avoid detection from vanilla/town rolecops in some variants.

Nether crumbed VT. Nether is guilty. That's not hard.

@FAQ2, Can you vote Bard please?

When I am convinced that you are not scum.

[FA_Q2]

I agree. If CotW is left alive I would rather they check someone else (me preferably) and reveal first thing tomorrow to prove their alignment. That would flush them out.

Almost midnight? You on the west cost too titus?

[FA_Q2]

VOTE: thesilverbard

The wagon on titus is done for nether. At this point bard is it.

[FA_Q2]

Titus and a partner wouldn't buss this heavy-handedly would they?

It would not surprise me tbh.

[FA_Q2]

So much for the precious integrity of Titus.

Lying as town and getting killed tsk tsk.

I run this town now.

Anatole, who did you shoot?

?

[FA_Q2]

never mind. Just realized they claimed VC. MIxed up titus and the fact that she was a hydra as CotW.

I dont like the hammer one bit. Something about that last post is not sitting right. Also need to hear who the vig target was - important to know if they shot at Titus or not.

[FA_Q2]

On the other hand, they obviously do not have a Ghoul fake claim.

based on?

[FA_Q2]

That is some of the worst logic I have heard thus far from you nether. They picked a fake claim as a PR. That does not mean that they do not have a ghoul fake claim.

You are tryharding to make yourself town and that is not a town action.

VOTE: netherspite

CotW really liked that call and scum is now alone. It would make sense that you killed your greatest threat.

[FA_Q2]

Read his role PM and tell me where you see a Ghoul fake claim.
Your logic is worse than mine, you look for an excuse to jump on my wagon because you know it'll be an easy one.

VOTE: FA_Q2

Btw, killing

Titus

would be a stupid move if I were scum but w/e.
I think we can afford a mislynch on me since there's only 1 scum left. So go ahead if you wish.

lol. Been spending much of my time defending you. Dumb of me in retrospect. VT fake claims are not part of the role PM. Never has been that way. You make the assertion that they do not have one based on, well, nothing. Nice OMGUS BTW.

[FA_Q2]

Town on Bard, FA, Nether. Null on the rest. At this point, Shiro knows that if he dies, we will look through his posts with a fine-tooth comb. Is he really going to have both his scumbuddies in his town pile with one town (Nether/FA)? I wouldn't do that. I would have one in my town pile, and one in my null. He has to play safe.

Considering I am town and nether and I were the ones in his town pile that actually backs a nether lynch.

In the post you quoted Vedith is not even mentioned and Bard is in his null pile.

[FA_Q2]

Grabs ABR hand and helps him colour inside the lines

Now think hard about it. I can prevent scum killing, I wasn't killed last night, and someone who can kill knows why.

Just be plain about it.

Talking in circles is unhealthy for town.

[FA_Q2]

Why the interest in blocking me?

[FA_Q2]

he should have known i was joking when i took the time to affirm that i was not joking

If that is not the most convoluted logic ever.

[FA_Q2]

If this game is winnable by me doing nothing then I'll take it.

Hmmm....

Isn't that totally unsatisfying though?

[FA_Q2]

Bulletproof bodyguard?... Ain't it too powerful?
Also it's an excuse on why you won't die at night despite being 'powerful town player'.
I'd like the town to consider the possibility of

Albert B. Rampage

being scum when you'll see my flip.

So you suppose an ABR scum flip even though he drove Bards wagon up to the lynch and was a suspect of Shiro...

Again, you are not even playing so why bother keeping you alive.

[FA_Q2]

Where is everyone?

Why break up the leading wagon and then vanish...

[FA_Q2]

VOTE: inte

Why inte over nether?

[FA_Q2]

UNVOTE:

You guys figure it out. Your activity levels are too low and I need to see more posts from you before making up my mind.

nice cop out.

[FA_Q2]

VOTE: FA

Reasoning is in Bard and Shiro both calling you town.

You really haven't done much more than inte, Shinobi, or Performer. You're all at the same level of contribution. So I pick FA.

Whatever. If you are going to try and lynch me then there really is no helping you. You are being willfully blind.

[FA_Q2]

Where did I say that I think town will lose?

I just said you are being willfully blind. Town is still going to take this one

[FA_Q2]

Where is everyone else - this is getting ridiculous.

[FA_Q2]

Oh, ABR also claimed VT.
So that's FA, Shinobi and Performer that haven't.

Off the tables for me to lynch today;

ABR - I'm happy with him town, I RB him night 1. Doesn't mean town, but he didn't make the kill night 1.
Antole - Even if SK, not a choice for today.
Nether - Lynching here would be pointless, he did crumb Ghoul at the start, and the sudden dip on ABR when he voted Nether looked more town than scum...

The rest I'd like to be suggested and I'll look.

I'm obviously against my lynch, but if this starts up again, I've already said my piece and I'm not going to let it annoy me.

If you dont want to go nether, what about inte?

Those are my top 2 at this point.

[FA_Q2]

Inte has had almost no interaction in general, is not scum hunting at all. I am inte's goto vote for inexplicable and completely absent reasoning. I think he was trying to up firebringers 'pokes' when he revealed that voting him might cause voters to die. Essentially, he is trying to fly under the radar. His reads list is, again, based on nothing at all.

[FA_Q2]

Whatever.

If ante wants to kill me then fine. I mean, there are like 3 of us that post at all and you, inte and ABR seem to think I am scum for no fucking reason.

Fuck this game. VOTE: inte

I bother coming back after town pulls its collective head out of its ass and decides to move the fuck on. Otherwise Ill just let this game fizzel out and die. Was going to win this one to.

[FA_Q2]

That is a lynch, is it not?

[FA_Q2]

How could you ABR? There was only one ghoul flip at the time? So how could you have deliberately outed yourself as a PR?

Why not?

A BP's only utility is drawing the NK. That is it.

[FA_Q2]

I wouldn't mind a pre-in.

Always game for a themed game. I think they are far better than normals and they are so much more rare (probably because I imagine the work it takes to MOD one). Thanks for the game Shos.