Mini 1727: Legends of the Hidden Temple II - Game Over!
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VysePresident Mafia Scum
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Irritated. I've looked over the game thread, and you want to pressure me. Grats.
You know what? I don't have anything right now. Maybe later in the game, but right now, I literally just read the thread, and I'm not in the mood to process it, beyond the obvious.
Like, I'm not furious with you or anything, and I'll get over it, but...kinda annoyed. You can read me later.-
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VysePresident Mafia Scum
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You can ask half the game. I tend to start pretty slow as I start pulling my thoughts together, then I get rolling.
I've chatted a little with Molla, but I want to sort through some stuff before I start engaging. If it's not obvious, I'm reading now. I have to run to work soon, then ideally, I'll be on tonight.-
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VysePresident Mafia Scum
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@Fire - M'kay, if anyone here gets PL'd, I don't think is should be me. That bit aside, I've moved on from my irritation with you for the most part, along with wanting to knock Titus & Sala's heads together, and I'm working through the game now. You seem to have missed that I'm rarely a fast-paced player from last game, and pressuring me so early won't get you the results you want. Heck, I'm sure I'll get flak for this again, but this sort of thing throws my Town play off much harder than it does my scum play. (Feel free to take that with a grain of salt, but you get my point.)
In post 383, Kaito Kirishima wrote:I mean maybe it's just me but i don't see whats so hard about posting during free breaks and stuff. XD.
It's a matter of playstyle & stuff. I'll link you if you want, but I like to think I have a quality over quantity style, at my best. I'm very slow to post, and tend to be relatively thorough when I do so - you can ask Titus, Vedith, Elbirn, Fire, Suzune, and Molla. Only Molla has seen me play scum before from this group, while the rest would know my Town game.
I'm going to be very aggravated if you guys push the lynch through before I'm done. (This does assume I post later tonight as promised. I won't hold any expectations if I screw up. I'll likely replace at that point, actually.)-
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In post 395, Titus wrote:@Vyse, Actually, you were scum in We Didn't Playtest This. I don't think there was an issue with your posting rate though.
You played Playing With Elements with me too, where I was Town. (Remember Dodgy, Wisdom, all that?)-
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In post 402, Elbirn wrote:
Ahh.
Sally if you read this, you have my sympathies.
Same here. I hope it's nothing too serious, pal. Here's wishing you the best.-
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In post 113, Titus wrote:In post 73, Salamence20 wrote:So I know Titus is going to speedlynch Fire so Im not having any part of it.
Im not going to stop her either
And why would I do that? What makes you think I would?
Firebringer has actually let me play on day 1.
Curious what the point of this post is? Can you walk me through your transition from here to voting for Fire?-
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In post 112, Shiro wrote:Btw people should stop voting FB unless they can explain why scum would so carelessly townread their PT buddy and why scum would issue a challenge so early and put their life on the line.
Because I would? At least, I would if half the game didn't know me. That's despite the fact that I'm a lot more cautious & thoughtful than Fire.
Kinda meh on Fire actually being scum, but this isn't the reason not to vote him.-
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In post 136, Kaito Kirishima wrote:In post 125, Suzune wrote:In my opinion Shiro, Firebringer plays fast and loose. I think there is a possibility he would do it to come off as a town read. As I explained in another game, people rarely double think early reads so getting ahead early is the goal of any mafia.
I just don't understand most reads, maybe because I see everything having both a townie and scummy reason.
Can I get you to elaborate on this, please?-
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In post 361, Kaito Kirishima wrote:
I don't know I kind of like it, so much better than what you've been doing which is complaining and ranting about how you know everything when in reality you don't.
I'll give you this.-
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VysePresident Mafia Scum
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M'kay, here are my reads, as they stand. I'm taking my scattered notes, and organizing them as I reread through the thread, hence any FutureVyse comments. (Note: It's getting darn late, and I have to wake up to rush to work very soon, so my thoughts are going to be a bit less involved closer to the end.)
-Titus & Elbirn are the closest things I have to Townreads at this point. Elbirn is mostly on tone - I caught him out when he was scum via an overplayed distancing attempt. It's hard to explain, especially this late at night, but it's matter of tone. He feels a bit more relaxed.TItus needs to explain the start of the Fire read to me before I go too much into my read on her.
-Maybe Kaito too, but I want to see him answer my question first. I'm also a little meh on his sequence from 251 to 254. (There are bits of 253 that I'm okay with. I kinda agree about Ved, and with the tail end of the paragraph.) {FutureVyse: Actually, 266 explains a bit, actually, though I suppose I'll need to actually skim over the games he linked later down the road. :/
-I have some positive feelings on Shiro's play, for all that I'm teasing them. Kinda like their take on Fire, even if I'm not totally in agreement. Not much else to work with though. Call them Townish-Null. Same for Kaito.
-Saving my read on Ved until he answers.
-Sala bugs me no end early on for some kinda over the top plays, but I'm giving this slot a bit of leeway because I kinda hated Sala's reads last game too, (he was Town) plus Molla's kinda pushing me away from it. We'll see.
-Anyone Townreading Molla at this point either doesn't know him at all, or knows him way better than me. I was scum partners with him in 'We Didn't Playtest This Mafia', and Molla's a freaking master of chiming in at just the right time, and just the right way. (The dead thread was a freaking ode to Molla until near the end, when he became obsolete, due to the emergence of the Phase of Plotinus. ) So no, I don't expect to read him easily. That's part of the reason I wanted to play with him, actually. Null to the high heavens.
-Suzune kinda bugged me earlier, but I'm having trouble figuring out why. I'm in a weird spot between sort of agreeing with her, and sort of not. I guess I'm less fond of her vote on Fire than the others, but it's late, I'm falling asleep as I type, and I need to wake up in three hours. Call this one gut too, and catch me later.
-Fire is just meh all around. Not going to lie, I've been a little biased, but screw that. I don't like his early play at all - there's too much of a 'lol, silly me' vibe. I'm kind of meh on him after his reaction to the flak he was getting. I view him as a friendly, slightly-trollish player, but there's an emphasis on slightly that got skipped over this game. Null. :/
-Kinda want to vote Davsto at the moment, (Yes, I know we can't. I mean in theory) but I'm not entirely sure if it's just clashing playstyles yet. He feels a little stiff, and his first big post bugs me. More on this later. Probably. Hopefully. Kick me if I don't remember. Not kidding about it being late - 3AM for me. (Actually, FutureVyse Note: I kinda like his 275, from the perspective of differing playstyles.)
PB exists. He voted Fire for being stupid. Okay. Fair enough. Putting a pin in this one. Let's say I'm looking for more content from him instead of what I'm actually doing, which is being lazy & also looking for more content from him at the same time.
I think that's everyone. I may have been subtly hinting that I'm exhausted as all get out, and my thoughts are starting to get less coherent. I'll work into this some more tomorrow, hopefully. Night all.-
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In post 345, BBmolla wrote:For the record, day 2 if someone challenges like this again you're policy lynched. It's such a pain in the to have come to this thread and be limited without the entire town being able to discuss it.
It's anti town and stupid.
This. So much this. I will make an exception to my hatred for Policy Lynches if this happens.-
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In post 398, Titus wrote:@Vyse, I do. I also remember you hadn't posted a lot there till my death. I figured that people would presume that I agreed with the statements I didn't correct.
Okay, I think maybe I'm just misunderstanding you.
I forgot you were in the same game as Molla, where I was scum. I don't think you replaced in till shortly after I died? Either way, fair enoug.
You also saw my play in Elements, and you noted later on in that other game that I don't tend to play super-chatty all the time.-
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In post 426, Davsto wrote:Still unsure about Vyse, but he's definitely not the lynch for today. Vedith really hasn't said much. Often he's the driving force of activity, interrogating people and the like, but he doesn't seem to have been anywhere near as active as that.
I'd kinda like an elaboration please, Davsto?
What aren't you sure about regarding me? Why is Vedith's activity your reason for voting him? Just talk with me a bit.-
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Like, just your thoughts in general, even if they don't go anywhere yet? I don't blame you for not having solid thoughts on me, but there's enough there for you to go "Well, this post makes me think this." "I agree/disagree with this point here", etc. Can you do some of that? Like I said, I'm trying to get a feel for you, so help would be cool.-
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P-Edit: What Molla said, with a more neutral read on him.
P-Edit#2: I'm not going to yell at you if you're town, Fire. Like I said, I do hope you'll learn before you do something like this again.
Anyway, P-edits aside, Fire, it's your turn.
What's your take on the game so far? Specifically, can you give me a general overview of your reads & stuff right now.-
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In post 485, Firebringer wrote:I hate it when I think Shiro is scum and Shiro acts cute.
Must not look at Shiro's avatar!!!
I am so Town.
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Yeah, I'm just going to let you guys have fun here. Getting tired of this again.
That said, since you're here Titus, could I get you to answer the question I asked you in 414 Mostly, I'm curious what your reasoning is for Fire, and I wouldn't mind hearing thoughts on the rest of us lynch-candidates.-
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In post 543, Suzune wrote:At this point so far, I like Vyse for Town. This looks like his town game to me using his usual reasoning, I mean he has not talked about Buzzwords yet, but other then that I think his seasons are still good.
At the vote count, I believe that both Firebringer and Vedith are voting Vyse for protection.
However, I find it rare that one no mafia team, challenged another no mafia team. I think that Vedith is probably on the right track.
Just because I'm a pedantic son of a submariner, I didnotscumread Elbirn for using buzzwords last game. I scumread him for writing a forced case that did not fit the events of the actual game, and one of the symptoms of that was an over reliance on buzzwords to make up for his lack of actual personal thought on the matter. I think it was largely scum dismissing my case on Elbirn that game as 'hating buzzwords', when frankly, they're not a big deal in and of themselves.
Thank you.-
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In post 522, Vedith wrote:@Titus, There is 0% chance for me that Molla and FB are both scum.
If FB is scum then there are no other scum out of us 4.
@Dav - There's no difference to most likely to not be town and most likely scum as both give the exact same result. Your comment was forced for this one for me.
@Molla - 478
In post 524, Vedith wrote:As stated already. Why would a scum challenge another team with scum in? That would give it more or less a 50% chance of a town lynch.
My bet is, if FB is scum then both Molla and Vyse are town.
Run me through your thoughts on us right now, without the flips & stuff. Where are you at on the three of us? Why?
Actually finding it interesting that you & Fire still have your votes on me.-
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P-Edit: Meh again. That's actually closer to being on track. I'm just going to post what I was going to, then sit back & think about this for a bit.
I think what's bugging me the most about this game is how many Town/Town-flavored reads I have. It's too many for the game as a whole, and especially at this stage. I'm wrong somewhere.
Fire's getting too blind on Vedith, and I don't see Ved deserving that. Ved kinda has a similar problem with Fire, for that matter, and I want to see him start fleshing things out. I actually would like to see Molla posting more, though I'm not sure what's even useful at this point.
While I'm here, Davsto's starting to seem more like somebody's who just too straightforward in how they think about the darn game. Moving him back up from Nullish-scum to Null w/ hints of "Oh frick this, he's going to be Town, isn't he?" on the side.
Honestly, I'm just about at the edge of caring about this whole fight right now, but I'm enough of an idiot that I want to run through this thing.-
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In post 562, VysePresident wrote:P-Edit: Meh again. That's actually closer to being on track. I'm just going to post what I was going to, then sit back & think about this for a bit.
This would be in response to Fire's 560, and that's it's more line with what I would expect from him than the blind trust appeared to be.-
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In post 563, Titus wrote:@FB, So you're town reading Vedith for agreeing with you and your concerns come when he doesn't? Yet you always scumread each other and its inevitable that it happens?
What reads did Vedith put in the PT?
@Vyse, I like Dave being straight forward. Why is that a problem to you?
I'm saying that initially, he was bugging me a bit, and I was trying to sort out whether it was scummy or just how he was approaching the game. Now I'm saying I'm inclined to think it really is just a playstyle difference. Straightforward is just me looking for a nice word in expressing a strategy I disagree with. (I.e. I'd be more concerned about you if I didn't think you were tunneling past the point of being reasonable. I'm more concerned about you being nice to Fire earlier than the shouting matches that followed. Dave's the opposite. I'm somewhat uncomfortable with Fire's tone in 554. Davsto liked it because it wasn't taking advantage to quickhammer. He's also inclined to think scum wouldn't challenge a team with scum, which is amusing to me in a few respects. It's not wrong per se, but it's a very limited view - the fact that he thinks that way is reason enough to do so as scum, if that makes sense.
Anyway, I'm tired & kinda want to figure out where I'm at now, so out for a few.-
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Basically, I feel like we're processing information differently. I feel Davsto has a bit too narrow of a view sometimes, but I no longer have the gut-scum feeling I was toying with earlier, where I thought his narrowness was forced. There's a pattern to his thought process, even if it's not one I can readily agree with.-
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Do tell.
I feel like doing something game-related right now, even if it's just more banging my head on a wall. (I kid, I promise. )-
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In post 601, Firebringer wrote:@Elbirn I don't see what you are townreading, and I don't know if you are intentionally trying to weaken my scumread on you or you don't care or I am lost. I feel like this is buddying. [Confirmation Bias is strong in me]
@Vyse love the reads buddy! It would be better if you gave us X is Scum and Y is Scum. Instead of town reads. >.>
Closest I have is MS via Salamancer, and maaaaaaybe Suzune. Naturally, Molla isn't agreement with me on any of these reads, (I don't know his thoughts on Suz, actually.) and part of the reason I'm okay with this wagon playing out for a little while is in hopes of getting those thoughts. (And before someone asks, no, I'm not voting.)
(I don't find MS particularly readable yet, while Sala seemed a bit more over the top than I remembered from last game, even factoring in some people's tendency to get annoyed with Titus.)
I'll be rereading in a bit, but I've got a thing I wanted to do with some friends first.-
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VOTE: BBMolla
Molla, I've been looking over We Didn't Playtest This & thinking for a while. I'm going to insist on you giving me your reads. There's too much here that's bugging me, based on our scum game together - same response to pressure, same tone, same anger, all that stuff. So you think Titus is too robotic, fine. What about Elbirn & Shiro? Also, I love Townreads on me & all, and I'm getting used to being Townread for reasons I don't fully understand & all, but...well, I think of you as being a better player than myself in some respects, but I thought I did okay enough in WDPT that I wouldn't be so easily trusted.
Because right now, I'm fairly confident in my ability to read Fire & Vedith, and they're both more Town than not by a lot. I'm not very confident in my ability to read you. I also got bithardthe last time I trusted somebody Townreading me so hard. :/
Just talk to me dude. Ignore Titus, Fire, et all for a minute please.-
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@Mod - I'm currently really freaking sick, and as such, I'm preemptively declaring V/LA until the 18th
I'm hoping it's just a quick stomach bug, but I'm putting that up just in case.
@Molla - For what it's worth, Fire is the only one of you I'd policy lynch. (Sorry pal, love ya, and you were cool last game, but this...has not been a good game for you so far. :/ ) I don't know. I feel like I'm screwing up majorly, but you're the only one I don't have as confident Town. I'm voting you because, frankly, I think you're a better player than me. It's not the claim in WDPT. I seriously do not believe I'd have ever scumread you in that game, if I hadn't been your buddy. :/
If you're Town, I'm sorry, it's the only freaking "good" (read: effing terrible) option I have right now. I mean, it's not like you didn't rage in WDPT too. It's not like you weren't the bloody master of jumping in at just the right moment, with just the right reads to make everyone love you. And it's not like I'm not starting to say "Gee, his reads are getting kinda dicey, and it's bugging me." If it helps, if you're Town, I'll promise to review my read on Titus, (Probably will do that even if you're not, honestly.) and I was going to look over Kaito & Suz tomorrow anyway.
If you're scum, screw you for doing this to me. Screw you, so hard.
I'll reread & think it over, but honestly, I think you're the only option left. And maybe it's just the bug talking, but I'm legitimately irked now too. :/-
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Oh screw this. Can we please just end this stupid day already?
I kinda want to get past the yelling & recriminations and just move on. I nominate tomorrows challenge to be the Suz/Kaito vs. Shiro/MS, with emphasis on the former two. More thoughts to follow when I'm sane, and not stupidly sticking to this thread as if scum is going to pop out at me.
Night.-
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