Mini 1722: Warcraft III - Reign of MAFIA (DOOM HAS COME)

[Call of the Wild]

I usually would agree with FB but I am not a fan of survivors. I will need to discuss this with SW.

~Titus

[Call of the Wild]

Hi Performer-are you stalking me? LOL

~SW

[Call of the Wild]

While waiting for Titus to get back to me about FB, I'll post my thoughts since she doesn't read upon replacing in and I do.

FA looks town off of 132. Agree with 164 from Silver Bard and 197 and think Vezok is scummy. Shiro's claim is believable via 171 and don't see a reason to lynch it. Gale Wing Srock-now Performer looks bad but I'm willing to see what he does as a replacement. Shinobi looks exactly like I've always seen him as town. Vedith's questioning looks good as well.

Agree with 243 from FA and FB as Survivor does not have a town wincon and should be lynched.275 from ABR makes sense as well.332 by vezo also. And 348 by Brantz. Brantz's 342 looks good as well just in general.

No Performer, I mean by stalking that you are joining games someone is in that you want to play with via 450. Happens all the time on this site. Totally different than the peeping in your windows type of stalker, LOL.

Don't do the careful town doc from your first game unless you are scum. You were too scummy.

Inside jokes guys.

Also, ABR reminds me of his town game. Leaning scum on vezo, gale/performer and kind of meh on nether and inte, FB I think needs to go for the reasons already given. Everyone else has various levels of towniness from very mild Brantz to pretty strong-FA.

Will wait for Performer to catch up and see with Titus says. She may change this but this is my thinking as of right now.

~SW

[Call of the Wild]

I requested an extension. May or may not be necessary.

~SW

[Call of the Wild]

@CotW: Why are you town reading Bard?

I liked his 164 and 197 because I thought his reaction to Shiro's claim was much better than Vezok's. Shiro's claim is very believable and Vezok's "lynch it" mentality seemed off to me and I agree'd with Bard's reaction much more.

Oh and hi Shiro!!

Your enthusiasm is nice to see!!

~SW

[Call of the Wild]

I would like to see Peformer catch up and give opinions before deciding to lynch that spot.

~SW

[Call of the Wild]

I'm just looking to make sure that lynching FB is the right course of action.
Why do you want to rush this? I already said that I will vote that way if gets late to a lynch.

Why do I want to rush this? Because we are doing absolutely nothing. Nobody is posting interesting stuff. Everyone is hung up on Firebringer. He needs to go. Dragging the day is the best way to sow apathy.

This is scummy. Two new replacements entered the game and one hadn't even caught up yet and all he can do is scream for a lynch and say there's nothing going on when clearly there is.

What's the hurry? No one is going to let us NL and there is still conversation going on that you are ignoring in your rush to lynch FB. The more info. we get into D1, especially on two new replacements, the better.

Also, Titus has the flu so it's probably going to be me posting for a little while.

~SW

[Call of the Wild]

Bard's fence sitting on every position he has taken this game doesn't bother you a bit? He seems to be hedging every read.

I haven't really seen much in the 10 posts to take note of except for the ones I said I liked but he doesn't look scummy when I read it. I would like to see more from him.

@Call of the Wild, @Performer

Welcome!

@Call of the Wild

Why do you think that

Firebringer

should die? I believe it's a waste of lynch.

If you read my intro/catch up post, you'd know the answer to this question. Is there some reason you are not paying attention? Do you have any opinions this game outside of not lynching FB and wanting to eat brains?

~SW

[Call of the Wild]

inte's ISO looks like garbage and so does Nether's and so does Gale's. Vezo just seems like he'll lynch whatever is the most popular flavor of the moment. Performer's far too concerned with his predecessor.

Regarding the talk of replace outs-I scumread replace outs if they happen under pressure. If they happen because someone has hardly played or has a RL issue-I null read that as too busy to play.

Performer might very well act town. Will that really change the fact that the slot is scum?

^
The words of singersigner in frog mafia about my partner who pretty much was like gale and his replacement did good at looking town

I generally don't like lynching replacements before they have a chance to catch up. Even if Performer is scum, what he says can still be important. If he's town, we def want to hear him speak.

Has anyone played with Performer before?
I'm kind of inclined to do some meta diving.
I know Silver has but other than that, who?

I've played with him when he's been town and when he's been scum. One game of each.

~SW

[Call of the Wild]

I'm getting a disturbing feeling from Net. He spoke of being allied with Burning Legion (town), yet talks of eating brains and slaying humans. He said he was playing to his role pm but it doesn't give me a pro-town feeling.

@Performer-Why is this scummy to you?

~SW

[Call of the Wild]

UNVOTE:

[Call of the Wild]

This looks slightly more like his towngame than his scumgame. He was kind of scummy and all over the place in that town game and in the scum game he was more awkward and lurky. I would like more time to sort him. I also think that "slip" is probably just role confusion based on his explanations of it.

VOTE: Firebringer

Both heads agree with this vote.

~SW

[Call of the Wild]

Only SW has played with Performer scum in a finished game. I know I took advantage of Performer in Pariah's mafia for a similar non-slip.

VOTE: FB

Neither of us like Vezok but I would rather lynch confirmed not town this close to deadline.

[Call of the Wild]

LMAO!

Titus

[Call of the Wild]

Ha Ha Ha-Told you we both agree'd with that vote. It's just one vote though. LOL

~SW

[Call of the Wild]

The fact of the matter is, it was very close to deadline and like Titus said, I'd rather lynch confirmed non town than NL or rush a lynch.

~SW

[Call of the Wild]

P.edit Oh come on performer was like an almost sure hit Silver.

It wasn't a sure thing to me or Titus. We have experience with him so this should hold some weight. I said I needed more time there, not rush lynch him at deadline.

~SW

[Call of the Wild]

Vezok should definitely be checked tonight? You agree?

Oh, FFS Titus. Check the damn hydra PT!!

[Call of the Wild]

VOTE: inte

Which do you pick, hasty, dumb or scum?

~Titus

[Call of the Wild]

Not wanting Performer, ABR, or Nether. Vezok's a long shot. Basically Shro would want redacted to look good.

~Titus

[Call of the Wild]

Oh, I really didn't expect

Shiro

to lie about wincon.
Arthas becoming undead was making sense.
Well then, we got rid of one scum.

Also I'm kinda disappointed Ghoul ain't unique flavor. I thought everyone would have his own flavor ><

Still, this one is scum:
VOTE: vezokpiraka

The conflict with Shiro makes this less likely.

[Call of the Wild]

No FA either.

[Call of the Wild]

@ABR, How is Nether scum with Shiro's open with him.

Gale is also on the no touchy list with Shaded.

[Call of the Wild]

So Shiro turned town if his scumbuddies die, is that the gist of it?

I am reading it as Shiro loses.

[Call of the Wild]

betray them and become a Death Knight. This means that to win, One of REDACTED and REDACTED has to live to endgame.

(If you remain alone - you lose!)

[Call of the Wild]

Ewww Nether..your posting is gross. Ghoul is a VT. You don't get credit for crumbing VT, presuming you did.

[Call of the Wild]

Oh, I really didn't expect

Shiro

to lie about wincon.
Arthas becoming undead was making sense.
Well then, we got rid of one scum.

Also I'm kinda disappointed Ghoul ain't unique flavor. I thought everyone would have his own flavor ><

Still, this one is scum:
VOTE: vezokpiraka

The conflict with Shiro makes this less likely.

No it does not.

I don't see where you draw that from.

No FA either.

Ditto above.

There is nothing there that would make either of us more likely town with Shiro's flip. Going back through his ISO, I am surprised how little info he put out there without being called out on it.

Totally disagree.

[Call of the Wild]

Actually I think ABR slipped l think He meant to say character(possible cause scourge) but accidentally said role. It makes no sense to say the one role he didn't want when roles are closed and you can't anticipate anything.

VOTE:ABR

The point is to kill mafia.
A 3p that claimed the way that FB did is never going to be mafia.

Try again town.

What do you mean, Try again Town? Are you survivor too?

Can we all agree that Gale is really scummy and should take priority over 3ps ?

Ok my resolve to lynch him just got raised to 11

Classic new player replacing at the sign of early pressure

Here are some examples. Shiro is not going to apply heavy pressure to people who she has to keep alive until endgame. So, we can infer that these three are almost certainly town.

~Titus

[Call of the Wild]

Derp 398 is Gale. Meant to grab a different quote for Shaded, but my point is the same.

[Call of the Wild]

Let me help you out here Titus. What we need to look at is people Shiro was pushing hard. Shiro knew who the scum were and knew he can't win if they die. So he will want them alive. He will not push them. So here's what I found in Shiro's ISO regarding pushes.

Actually I think ABR slipped l think He meant to say character(possible cause scourge) but accidentally said role. It makes no sense to say the one role he didn't want when roles are closed and you can't anticipate anything.

VOTE:ABR

Makes ABR less likely to be scum. I wasn't scumreading him anyway.

I like where I am voting
Bard came in made one post that appeases both sides(Showed concern over me and voted vezokpiraka) and left.
Vezokpiraka I am so-so part of me thinks he read that post as 3p cause he is scum and concerned about it cause town should even be thinking about 3p so Early. But yea not certain
Fa is town I think so is neather.
Fa reaction was really town.
Neather I doubt scum would rp like that.
Null on the rest, maaaaybe a small town lean on fire

These reads should tell us something about who may be scum and should be analyzed.

Can we all agree that Gale is really scummy and should take priority over 3ps ?

Ok my resolve to lynch him just got raised to 11
Classic new player replacing at the sign of early pressure

Ok my resolve to lynch him just got raised to 11
Classic new player replacing at the sign of early pressure

You want to lynch before we hear from the replacement....
I have not seen this mythical new player replaces when pressured but have seen this argument eluded to many times.

I am positive he is scum yes. I have seen it happen more than once. Bot as town (and get angry at town not listening) and as scum watching my partner do it.

Can we actually lynch scum in gale (now performer)

Performer might very well act town. Will that really change the fact that the slot is scum?
^
The words of singersigner in frog mafia about my partner who pretty much was like gale and his replacement did good at looking town

Hey I was calling Gale scum for his lurkish oh I don't udnerstand the game behaviours way before Fire. The fact he replaced out when the pressure hit him just sealed it for me.

Sorry FB but I am always for a lynch than a no lynch day 1.
You should have just not said about the visiting and let an idiot explode.

You know wagon on scum performer was there and shining
I am just gonna note that when performer wagon started really taking off and people were ok with fire living, suddenly "oh my let's lynch FB"
Yea fb wagon has most scum on it, if not all >.>
P.edit Oh come on performer was like an almost sure hit Silver.

This means Performer is almost certainly town.

~SW

[Call of the Wild]

I've read through

Shiro

's ISO.
Interesting thing: he was pushing (to some degree at least) all the scummy people.
Was he just bussing them? He will still win if scum will. He doesn't need to survive.
Or am I completely wrong about who's scummy and who ain't?

He loses if the scum die and he knows who they are. He isn't going to bus or try to lynch them. It plays directly against his wincon.

vote performer

This needs death. Does anyone agree?

Do you even read or pay attention? The way Shiro was trying to rush lynch Performer at the end there means it is HIGHLY likely that Performer is town.

FFS

~SW

[Call of the Wild]

......

Of course I don't have a scourge character You just..... Did you just claim scum FA? you just voted me for believing I am not scourge

She wouldn't say her partner "claimed scum".

Revisiting my nether read though. His posting today is terrible.

[Call of the Wild]

I think scum opposed the Shirowagon after he claimed.

Why?

~SW

[Call of the Wild]

AFAIK, Shiro has not claimed a sex and therefore is whatever you want to refer to 'it' as

I don't pay attention anyway to the she/he thing and never understood when someone got upset that they were called by the incorrect pronoun. Who really cares - I don't care if you referred to me as a she - as long as I actually understood what you were saying.

He said he was a guy in a game awhile ago. That's why I always refer to him as he.

Just a fun FYI for ya.

~SW

[Call of the Wild]

Silver Bard doesn't look very scummy to me. Anybody want to tell me why he is?

~SW

[Call of the Wild]

*yawn*

~SW

[Call of the Wild]

Glad I can liven things up around here though.

~SW

[Call of the Wild]

Oh crap, I didn't even realize that.

LOL

~SW

[Call of the Wild]

It is of my opinion that Shiro wouldn't hard bus his buddies and try to lynch them like he did with Performer and wouldn't push them like he did with ABR.

I don't know if Shiro would put both his buddies in his town reads but I kind of doubt it. I guess if it came down to it I could meta and see how he treats his buddies.

For now though, of the nulls, I think inte is the best bet for a lynch today based on play.

~SW

[Call of the Wild]

Vezo shooting Shiro is believable due to his strong dislike of 3P's and thinking Shiro was a 3P so for now, I believe the claim. We can revisit if need be down the line but for now off limits with ABR and Performer.

~SW

[Call of the Wild]

Townreading both his buddies just sets up obvious associatives and Shiro isn't dumb so for today we can exclude them. I think Titus was having second thoughts on Nether but this is not really something I'm too concerned about today.

We should go with the nulls who are:

-inte

-Silver Bard

-Shinobi

-Vedith

Of those, inte is the worst so that's where I'm at.

~SW

[Call of the Wild]

No, I meant Shiro's null list.

inte is a scum read not a null read

~SW

[Call of the Wild]

@silverwolf: if shiro is smart that means he knows wifom and he can town read his buddies. Why are you eliminating the town reads immediately?

Because it sets up obvious associatives and he has to keep them alive until endgame.

Also, this from Titus:

......
Of course I don't have a scourge character You just..... Did you just claim scum FA? you just voted me for believing I am not scourge

She wouldn't say her partner "claimed scum".
Revisiting my nether read though. His posting today is terrible.

This means he isn't likely to accuse his partner of claiming scum if FA was scum. This is the post from Nether Titus didn't like so if one of the townreads is scum, this is likely it:

Lol, just realized that voting me at this point is basically a scumclaim.
Just because I softclaimed and roleplayed a Ghoul before anyone ever mentioned it and before we had the flip of another Ghoul.

Ewww Nether..your posting is gross. Ghoul is a VT. You don't get credit for crumbing VT, presuming you did.

And then there's this about Silver Bard:

I like where I am voting
Bard came in made one post that appeases both sides(Showed concern over me and voted vezokpiraka) and left.

Which doesn't exclude him but means he's less likely than some of the others at this point.

I also had a townread on FA and Shinobi per this 453 and a much milder one on Vedith and Bard and didn't like Nether at the time so.

Prefer inte lynch today still.

~SW

[Call of the Wild]

You are above inte, Nether, and Bard and 453 shows I like you just fine.

Like I'm probs something like this from towniest to least:

Performer, ABR, Vezo, FA, Shinobi, Vedith, Bard, Nether, inte.

~SW

[Call of the Wild]

I have explained all my reads in this game and my reasons for them as well as for my inte vote in detail. Any questions, ask.

It's interesting how Vedith says there shouldn't be null reads and agree'd with me about looking at Shiro's nulls and about inte but then agree'd with Nether that there could be one Shiro townread who is scum and also goes along with ABR's feelings on us because we are not in his town list meaning we are null when he earlier said there shouldn't be nulls at this point.

If anyone can't see how contradictory that is, I don't know what to tell you. Is there some reason people are townreading Vedith? I liked his line of questioning on read through so I had him leaning town for that but this going with the flow attitude is making me question that. It's like whatever is the popular opinion at the time he's here, he goes with it.

~SW

LOL, This isn't the newbie queue. No one is gonna quickhammer right now that everyone knows inte is at L-1 so relax.

[Call of the Wild]

Is there some reason people are townreading Vedith?

He's town. Contradicting yourself doesn't make you scum. You're more scummy for suggesting that it is.

Going with the flow and whatever is popular IS scummy and pointing these things out is called scumhunting.

It's interesting how Vedith says there shouldn't be null reads and agree'd with me about looking at Shiro's nulls and about inte but then agree'd with Nether that there could be one Shiro townread who is scum and also goes along with ABR's feelings on us because we are not in his town list meaning we are null when he earlier said there shouldn't be nulls at this point.

So because I think Shiro had scum in null and town?
That makes no sense...

I also said, there shouldn't

only

be null reads. If you are going to try and make up shit, do better.

Nope, you aren't reading what I'm saying but nice misrep there, LOL

I can back all my statements up with post links when I have time but I'm busy now so it'll have to wait.

This strong resistance to the inte lynch is also noted.

~SW

[Call of the Wild]

This strong resistance to the inte lynch is also noted.

Yeah, and the non focus on your scum read at L1 is noted.
You are more concerned about stirring the pot right now, to pass attention off what, a mis lynch?

Nope, I'm voting for inte so I don't think he's a mislynch nor am I trying to shift focus to a different lynch.

Hey, it's called scumhunting. You know. Pointing out things that are odd?

~SW

FFS, LOL

[Call of the Wild]

Albert B. Rampage

moved towards townlean in my readslist.

You were wrong about Shiro, and you were wrong about vezok. Would you be willing to revisit your townread on Call of the Wild?

I'm definitely going to go through their ISO tomorrow (it's too late atm for me) because something made me worried about them today.

Love how suddenly everyone is so worried about us but won't specify.

~SW

[Call of the Wild]

Nope, I'm voting for inte so I don't think he's a mislynch nor am I trying to shift focus to a different lynch.

Hey, it's called scumhunting. You know. Pointing out things that are odd?

~SW

No, it's making up shit to give justification of a different lynch the next day and to draw focus from you. XD
I'm not too worried about you though, as I know if you're scum, Titus will slip up.

Please continue to lie if it makes you happy. I am hardly drawing focus away from me as that is the hot topic now. LOL

~SW

[Call of the Wild]

Love how suddenly everyone is so worried about us but won't specify.

Considering the post before this I say the words "not worried"... IronKnee

I was talking about Nether's post. I even quoted it.

~SW

[Call of the Wild]

Please continue to lie if it makes you happy. I am hardly drawing focus away from me as that is the hot topic now. LOL

Yeah that back fired for you...
Maybe you SHOULD let Titus do the talking, even she isn't that bad as scum.

From now on she can post. You are pissing me off.

~SW

[Call of the Wild]

I swear all your comments above indicated we were scum but when pressed, you don't know? Yeah, that's not odd at all. Nope.

Anyway I've asked Titus to take over for awhile. I'm getting pissed off at your instigating shit and she will be along when she can.

~SW

[Call of the Wild]

Yay for Titus - It's my preferred head of the 2.

And that wasn't actually supposed to come across as an insult.. I generally like playing in games with Titus.

Sure it wasn't.

[Call of the Wild]

Catching up now.

~Titus

[Call of the Wild]

Ok seriously ABR, I'm town reading you but you're doing that thing where you treat everyone who disagrees with you like they're stupid. Contradictions are important as the reveal alignment.

P.S. Noether's scum. If inte is scum, then we're turbo lynching Nether. Period. Hell I'm tempted to turbo lynch him now but we're this close to lynching inte scum.

Vezok worries me as well. I know outed vig = unlikely to be scum. That doesn't mean impossible. Vezok keeps attacking obvious town fmpov. I also claimed vig as scum in Gundam Seed. I was just the scum kill.

Oh Vedith, you bought me CCing a cop as scum so if you're going to gloat actually get my alignment right. :-p

~Titus

[Call of the Wild]

Oh Vedith, you bought me CCing a cop as scum so if you're going to gloat actually get my alignment right. :-p

No, in every game it's obvious. Plus I had you pinned before.
I didn't say your align, so how can I be wrong?
hmmmm? hmmmm?

Everyone knows that was a reaction test or a piss poor implication of me as scum. You wouldn't do it if you thought we were town.

*pats*

Now either we can quibble trying to show who is in whose head better or we can actually lynch scum?

While SW knows you're just trying to provoke, I see the tactic and raise you.

Scum
Inte
Nether

Town
FAQ
ABR
Vedith
Perforner
Call of the Wild

Not Groupscum probably
Vezok

Got any problems with this?

[Call of the Wild]

Shinobi and TSB in the need to sort pile

[Call of the Wild]

Your thoughts on inte Shinobi.

Scum's in inte/Nether/TSB/Vezok. Agree or Disagree?

[Call of the Wild]

Abr should I expect some sort of reasoning from you at some point or is this all I can expect?
It really bugs me that I wound up in your scum pile after you know how often and frequently people are suspicious of me for next to nothing. I'm expecting something more than whatever it is you're doing right now.

Waaaah!

Abr's town. He can say gut. Ignore gut boy and answer me. Pleading with gut players is stupid.

[Call of the Wild]

@Shinobi, Shiro. It's been quoted by us.

@Vedith, Why aren't you a fan of lynching Nether scum?

[Call of the Wild]

So I looked at the post in question wrt FA and I don't understand what's so towny about it.
Elaborate?

Scum don't accuse their buddies of slipping if they must survive until end game. No more than 25% odds of FA being scum.

[Call of the Wild]

Because I don't think that he is scum...

Why? I don't see much townie today.

[Call of the Wild]

Like?

A better idea would be putting up a case for someone else that is more convincing.

Nether is the backup. She kisses his ass. He's buddied everyone. Not a fan.

Inte/Nether for scum.

Shinobi/TSB are long shots.

All others are town but Vezok might be an SK. Best to let scum handle it.

[Call of the Wild]

@Call of the Wild

It's mostly a gut at this point. Overall picture of your posting today made me worried.
I'll revisit your ISO and after that I'll be able to talk about it more specifically.

Have you had time to do this yet?

So, what do you think about

Call of the Wild

?
I find their latest posting not very towny.

Which posts of ours are not towny and why? I find this timing odd since it came right after Vezok voted us but then you backed off when Vedith said he didn't see scum motivated posting.

Please clarify your read on us as it seems to ebb and flow with what others are saying.

~SW

[Call of the Wild]

Nether, I find misrep and selective quoting to be very scummy. Titus is into setup spec and figuring that shit out. Your attack on us is weak at best. I'm not answering for Shadowez. You seem to have forgotten a quote though. I'm sure this is just an oversight on your part right?

Vezo shooting Shiro is believable due to his strong dislike of 3P's and thinking Shiro was a 3P so for now, I believe the claim. We can revisit if need be down the line but for now off limits with ABR and Performer.

~SW

Also, you trying to set yourself up as confirmed town for your ghoul crumbing is weak because it isn't like in a game that can be broken by flavor scum wouldn't have a safe flavor claim so I find that pretty bad as well.

Your questioning of Vedith to feel out a lynch on us and then backing off when he said no was pointed out by me and suddenly you decide to switch to us. I want reasons based on our posting that you find scummy. You told me you don't like it and are going to ISO us. Tell me specifically what is scummy about our posting and point out examples that I can actually respond to.

Also, all your play around the hammering stuff just looks like scum wanting towncred. You were fine with the hammer since you kept your vote on but decided to make a lot of noise about how we need more time in the day and hammering is a scumclaim. I've said shit like that as scum before.

Also, you mention how you will get mislynched for voting for us. How is that possible if you think we are scum? Why would voting for a scumread get you mislynched? Is it because you know we are town? What are your reads again anyway? We've given ours and explained them repeatedly. What are yours?

VOTE: Nethersprite

[Call of the Wild]

Pushing survivor instead of scumhunting D1.

Pushing 95% conftown

Vezokpiraka

now.

This is a lie. Did you even read our posting when we came into this game? We did plenty of scumhunting and gave reasons for FB.

You do realize the only confirmed town is someone the mod says is town right?

Nether is scum. Her reasoning is super weak and bad.

~SW

[Call of the Wild]

Re-read everything I posted when I came into this game and stop with the selective quoting and misrep cuz that's scummy as shit and the more you do it, the more convinced I am that you are scum.

~SW

[Call of the Wild]

Yeah it must be hard to convince yourself that someone who you know to be town is actually scum.

I've already re-read stuff you've posted. The result of your 'scumhunting' D1 was lynching a claimed survivor. You could just do that after replacing into the game without reading anything but the last page or two. I see so much scumhunting here...

Why is it so hard for you to ISO us honestly? Anyone is more than capable of looking at our D1 and D2 posting and see that this is a lie. Keep it up. If makes you look like scum.

~SW

[Call of the Wild]

Funny how Vezok is supporting you for this considering he was all over the FB lynch. Must be cuz you are kissing his ass and calling him confirmed town like I would do as well as scum with a claimed vig in the game.

~SW

[Call of the Wild]

Here, glad you see the light SW. Let me help before work.

VOTE: Nethersprite

[Call of the Wild]

Saying it's best for scum to handle is not pushing a Vez lynch. It's merely stating the obvious. If two scum die, Vezok is autolynch and if Vez is town, scum gotta kill him.

[Call of the Wild]

Not subtle. I cannot count the number of games I won as "confirmed town" when I was scum. Upside, if you're town scum are less likely to shoot you. Gtg.

[Call of the Wild]

I am going to let Titus answer to the vezok stuff cuz that's her baby. She's at a work conference today and won't be around.

I'm not trying to convince myself you are scum Nether, I'm trying to convince others.

You should know when people selectively quote my stuff and misrep me and fabricate scumreads on me when I'm town, that I will scumhunt them mercilessly. If they are scum, it will be shown. If you are town, show me by giving me your reads and explaining them. Not getting into pointless battles with me that you will lose because we are town.

If you ISO'd honestly, you would see reads, scumhunting, etc. You are pointing out things that town can easily do-the FB lynch for example and painting it as scum motivated and saying we are pushing for a vezok lynch when we are doing no such thing.

What are all your reads and why besides us?

~SW

[Call of the Wild]

Pretty sure I've given reads on all of these players with the exception of CotW.
My scumreads are obvious at this juncture.

Why haven't you given a read on us yet?

You aren't pushing for

vezokpiraka

lynch, yet you're 'not subtly' claiming he's not town.
This does not make sense.

Why do you assume this is scum motivated? Titus likes to think outside the box. Maybe you should too.

~SW

[Call of the Wild]

@Call of the Wild

I've posted my reads.
What else you want to know?

You aren't pushing for

vezokpiraka

lynch, yet you're 'not subtly' claiming he's not town.
This does not make sense.

I'm not subtly claiming there's a possibility Vezok is SK. In Warcraft 3, there are 4 playable factions (if I recall correctly), four factions is not a stretch here.

Yet if Vezok has the possibility of being the SK, that alone is not enough to advocate strongly for his lynch. It's just that, a possibility. Vezok is a problem scum may very well handle for us.

Second, Shiro was a traitor who knew she had two scum. If we lynch the two scum mentioned in Shiro's role PM and the game continues, there must be a third evil faction. Said third faction must have a kill. Enter Vezok. Turbo lynch Vezok in that scenario. Until then or lylo plus a day, Vezok shouldn't be lynched without very strong cop/tracker evidence.

It's basic math and logic. It's frustrating that this isn't evident.

I'd be less concerned about Vezok if he actually voted/interacted with anyone who could be scum, but he's not which fits the SK profile.

By actually playing to the numbers, not lynching Vezok, but stating my position, it's a win win. We know how to approach Vezok if I am right and if I am wrong, scum are less likely to kill him.

[Call of the Wild]

Now onto why people should vote Nether

1) He claimed VT ever since his first or second post of the game. The job of a VT is to soak up night kills. It's not to claim VT right away.
2) He uses his anti-town play as a shield, acting like scum wouldn't have access to the VT claim despite not being a noob.
3) Argues to let third party live despite being aware of the SC2 site meta which is lynch all third parties.
4) Nethersprite's ISO is full of consensus arguments and buddying. Nether scumreads ABR, no one bites, ABR is town. Vezok is scum. Vezok claims vig. Vezok is town. Inte wagon weakens. Nether pushes us who happens to be suggested a lot.
5) Nether was attempted to be pushed as town by Shiro.

[Call of the Wild]

*884 Clarification: I would feel better about Vezok if he would actually vote scum.

[Call of the Wild]

Me hungry!
We kill him - me eat brains!

VOTE: BRantz

This right here is a ghoul claim and the RP that Nether brags about. Ghouls are VTs in this setup. Noether's claiming Ghoul. Thus he's claiming VT.

[Call of the Wild]

It's not playing on role PM details to state that Nether intended to claim Ghoul and VTs are Ghouls. Did I state anything about wincos? Nope.

[Call of the Wild]

Yes, I do. Brantz flipped Ghoul. Noether's claiming the same flavor and role. There isn't an army of people upset with Nether for claiming the same flavor as a dead guy.

You're not analyzing because you want Nether to be town.

[Call of the Wild]

Well, do you have a better reason? I have proven everything in 885 true. Now, if you could let your stupid pride out of the way and admit I'm right for once, that would be great.

All VTs are ghouls. Do you still challenge this?

[Call of the Wild]

Of course. I have shown Nether us the scum. I'm not disputing the possibility Bard is. You want to prove Bard is scum; layout your case.

You just seem so hellbent against accepting the evidence Nether is scum and I don't get why.

[Call of the Wild]

Stop dodging. Do you dispute all VTs are ghouls?

[Call of the Wild]

Nether, Your case is we helped lynch FB, something that most everyone else did too and the reasons were given repeatedly so you are beating a dead horse with that shit. That is not scum motivated in the least and it is laughable you continue to push that garbage. It is a straight up lie that we did no scumhunting considering anyone that reads us after we replace in up until now can see that isn't true. It's BS. A simple ISO will show that.

We were barely in the game with Shiro so that's WIFOM at best. It is much more reliable to look at Shiro's reads and interactions which we spent considerable time doing and you saying we are scum because he didn't talk to us very much is majorly weak.

This Vezo shit is another really, really weak argument that Titus explained a lot better than I did. There is nothing scum motivated in that at all and it's laughable again that you would say so.

As far as the VT/ghoul stuff, you tried to pass yourself off as confirmed town for that so you are darn right we are going to call that out as the BS it is.

Now, I for one, am not going to argue with you on trivial matters. You have yet to come up with a point against us that has any merit. Because there isn't one to be had because you are chasing town.

It's a sad pathetic attempt that is easily shown to be the BS it is. You only moved onto us when you saw others suggesting us as a possibility today when you were on inte before that. Did you suddenly decide inte was town or is he your buddy and you needed an excuse to move off the wagon?

~SW

[Call of the Wild]

I'm done arguing with you.

It's a circular argument that doesn't go anywhere because we are scumreading each other.

Time for others to weigh in because right now there's a lot of inactivity in this game and I'm not going to waste my time on this and continue to provide cover for those not posting.

~SW

[Call of the Wild]

Oh but I will add that it was pretty close to deadline when we replaced in and I like how you only say D1 we didn't do anything but vote FB, even though we gave reads and opinions on everyone in the game and even argued against the Performer lynch which Shiro commented on and expressed disapproval of. Nice how you forget to mention the deadline crunch though. Wouldn't want to give an accurate representation of what happened now would you?

Also, it's a major misrep to say anything about who we replaced and whether or not they were ignored because it is my understanding he was very inactive anyway. I don't know and I don't care as I can't speak for anyone but us. Another twisting of events by you.

Man, I could refute your scummy BS forever and it wouldn't change the fact that you are fabricating a scumread on us and it's very, very obvious. You are damn right we are a tough wagon. I will aggressively defend myself because I don't like being lied about.

Have a nice night/day, whatever.

~SW

[Call of the Wild]

Did you suddenly decide inte was town when you moved off him onto us?

Yes or No.

[Call of the Wild]

Name one major thing that happened to cause you to move to us when you were voting the inte wagon. Not FB or D1 or Shiro or any of that old stuff. One thing that caused you to change your mind that was strong enough for you to switch like that.

I'm think inte is your buddy and you were looking for an excuse. It doesn't matter how difficult it is, you had an opening with enough people suggesting it and you were feeling out Vedith about it as well.

You were looking to switch. You just had to figure out a way to do it that didn't look like obvious unvoting for no reason. If inte was a strong scumread of yours, you'd stay on the wagon.

Did he do something townie to you? Seriously, everyone should be questioning you about this. It's scummy as shit.

~SW

[Call of the Wild]

I'm not arguing with you about Shiro, our predecessor, D1, FB, or Vezo. It's all been argued to death and anyone is more than capable of seeing the truth for themselves.

LOL at Performer possibly being a scumbuddy.

Now, tell me why you prefer us over inte. Then give me your case on inte. I seem to have forgotten why you think he's scum in the first place. Enlighten me.

~SW

[Call of the Wild]

LOL-The sad thing is, I don't think you even realize how ridiculous you sound right now. Can't stop laughing at how much you have twisted yourself up into a pretzel.

OMG-if people can't see how scummy you are, then they are blind as hell.

My job here is done.

~SW

[Call of the Wild]

ISO us. It's not that hard. We replaced in late D1 so it should be pretty easy to see what our reads were as I spelled them all out. Also, Stop trying to change the subject.

You derailed a major wagon on a scumread of yours to go after us.

Town does not do that. The only way I can see it is if you think inte is town but you don't.

You have a scumread wagoned, you see it through. You were looking for a way to get off that wagon. It was obvious in your posting as well.

We did nothing even remotely worth moving off your scumread to us. You just brought up a bunch of weak as hell BS that you threw together and tried to sell it as a case.

Nope. Unacceptable. You are not town. I'm just hoping others see what I do either now or when we flip if you do succeed in mislynching us.

I would be very surprised if you were town playing this way.

[Call of the Wild]

^^^^^^^^^^

SW obviously

[Call of the Wild]

The correct townplay is to lynch scum and you didn't do that if you thought inte was scum. You keep trying to change the subject to shit we've already talked about. I'm not falling for that.

You are lining up lynches and keeping your options open.

Like I said, I'm hoping others will see what I do.

I've done all I can. You should die today.

~SW

[Call of the Wild]

@915, Yes you're refusal to vote scum is absurd. You're wanting people to ignore us despite voting us is absurd.

@Shinobi, inte or Nether are doable. Why not Nether?

[Call of the Wild]

Pretty sure I've given reads on all of these players with the exception of CotW.
My scumreads are obvious at this juncture.

Why haven't you given a read on us yet?
~SW

@Shinobi

[Call of the Wild]

@915, Yes you're refusal to vote scum is absurd. You're wanting people to ignore us despite voting us is absurd.

@Shinobi, inte or Nether are doable. Why not Nether?

I refuse to lynch someone that is doing stuff over one that is not.

He's not though. Show me where he's doing something please.

Also, that hedge is really annoying.

[Call of the Wild]

Playing the victim isn't doing anything Shinobi. He's not pushing us but claiming we're big bad evil scum for calling him out.

[Call of the Wild]

A push on us would involve stating things are scummy that are true. He's just said we're scum for voting him (scum).

[Call of the Wild]

Effort is not indicative of alignment. Never has been. Never will be. Nether is doing scummy shit to try to mislynch us and you are ignoring that because he's not lurking. His case if full of holes but you won't lynch it because he's doing something. That is some of the worst logic I've ever seen.

ABR is using preflip associatives to call us scum with someone for absolutely no reason and then keeps treating another one of his scumreads (Nether) as town to push our mislynch through. Again, shitty logic.

If this is how town wants to lose, it's on you.

[Call of the Wild]

There is no me Versus you beyond me being frustrated at your stupidity ABR. There is no us versus Vedith.

My lynch pool has been clear for ages.

Can you actually read my posts ABR? You're not this bad usually.

This shade you act as if it's bad, it's not. Documenting possibilities isn't scummy
AA.

[Call of the Wild]

Sorry hubs knocked phone there. The last AA means nothing.

Now I have a house to clean and company to entertain.

[Call of the Wild]

That is exactly how I play as town. I make waves. As scum I try to blend in. This is plainly obvious in how I've been playing this game for a long time.

Bard is never here to interact with. Has anyone interacted with him much? Associating us with random people and calling us scumbuddies is stupid. Saying we are scum for laying out all the possibilities with Vezo is stupid. Saying we are scum for lynching FB when most everyone agree'd that was the best move at that time is stupid. Saying we are not scumhunting when our ISO is full of it is stupid. Misrepping what we did when we replaced in with so little time before deadline is stupid. Saying we must be scum because Shiro didn't say much to us is stupid.

Anyway, Titus can do what she wants but I've already decided that our lynch should go through.

It is a huge distraction that scum can use to hide and surely are. Hell, if I was scum, I'd want us around to keep this up tomorrow. With us out of the way, and shown to be town, maybe town will open their eyes and find who the real scum are.

I do ask that people ISO us and pay attention to all our reads and all our observations on the game as it is important because town isn't going to be in a good spot if they keep voting and mislynching town while ignoring the UTR players.

And especially pay attention to Nether and his terrible push here and make him answer for it after our flip. Make inte answer for his complete lack of doing anything at all this game. Then look at the rest of our reads and reasons. If you don't listen now, perhaps when we become confirmed town, you will.

Best of luck.

~SW

[Call of the Wild]

That's fine as long as you listen to what we said when we become confirmed town. I will be pissed if we continue to be ignored in death. Pay attention to the shitty push by Nether also. There's no way he's that bad as town. I have no idea about Bard. He's pretty null but needs a lot more pressure. Probably a good wagon will do it. Also, Some of Shinobi's posting today seems off as well. Keeping people alive because they are doing things, even if they are scummy things is really off from him.

~SW

[Call of the Wild]

We won't and I'm willing to die to prove it because I think it will be more helpful to my wincon. I'm not discounting Bard as scum. I said I have no idea and he needs a lot more pressure. I do like that our flip will discount the possibility of us being scum together and will make the idea of preflip associations continue to be a bad idea. Because that is just plain bad reasoning for scumreading a person.

I hope Titus doesn't mind this but I'm becoming more and more o.k. with being lynched. It's a new feeling for me because I usually fight it to the death and get super frustrated but I actually feel pretty good.

I will be wiling to discuss things with people who are reasonable as long as we are still in the game but no more fighting. I think I'm going to rethink my strategy for future games to I don't give a shit mode. I kind of like it.

~SW

[Call of the Wild]

Both Titus and myself have him in our would lynch list. I'm not sure why you are pressuring us on this when plenty of people are null reading him or saying nothing about him.

I've also been pretty busy trying to bring down obvscum Nether in case you haven't noticed.

~SW

[Call of the Wild]

Lynching CotW is bad.

Lynch should be Nether>Shinobi>inte.

This is gonna seal our fate.

Everyone pay attention to our wagon when if flips and the shitty reasons we are being lynched for. And fucking kill Nether.

I'm sorry Titus for fucking up and being a shitty hydra buddy. I haven't been mislynched in a very long time and never for as bad of reasons as this. This town is bad and scum is being allowed to get away with a lot.

But I stand by my statement that our lynch is best.

I am looking forward to seeing the excuses tomorrow or the ripping us apart and blaming us instead of admitting their own incompetence.

If town wants to win. They will listen to us when we become confirmed town. I've said enough. Good luck.

~SW

[Call of the Wild]

If Shinobi refuses to vote anyone else then yeah, that will look bad for him.

These kinds of statements give scum every excuse in the book to jump on a town wagon and take no heat from it the next day. It's a dumb thing to say. If we were scum, you say things like this the next day after a flip. Not now.

If Shinobi is town, you are forcing him to vote us regardless.

I think town is screwed sadly. I actually do wish I was scum in this game. I think it'd be pretty easy to win.

~SW

[Call of the Wild]

@inte, noted and fair. You didn't comment on any of the actual wagons. Boo. Want us mislynched to save Nether and yourself, say so.

@SW - Hydra chat. Defeatist attitude isn't helpful.

@ABR - We have one vote. We'd rather vote someone who is proven scum in 885. Considering your repeated dodge of the facts, there's only two possibilities 1) pride or 2) scum. You're not actually voting Bard either but voting us. All the while you're promoting an CotW/Bard scumteam. Bard hasn't been here as well. You also have few interactions. We have less because of the fact we subbed in.

The only thing we've done is disagree with you and frankly that's not scummy. I get you have an ego, but us bruising it with evidence isn't scummy.

Considering Nether was in your pool for awhile, why aren't you joining Nether but pushing us instead? Was Nether not supposed to be wagoned?

~Titus

[Call of the Wild]

One of the things town should always do is question the motives of those pushing them. Your baiting is scummy Nether.

~SW

[Call of the Wild]

I'll say it one last time and that's it. Town should always look at a wagon on them and question the motives for the votes. It helps town after we flip. I shouldn't have to say things like this to experienced players.

~SW

[Call of the Wild]

I personally think that town should question the votes on people after the flip...
Complaining about people voting you is scummy unless you actually counter the reason.

If there is a wagon on you, you should really be asking "As town, what am I doing wrong?"

The only reason people are voting us is people are not reading 885.

[Call of the Wild]

Haha now they'll subtly push

Albert B. Rampage

.
Who else you'll call scum for catching you?

ABR is not scum or taking a town tell. I would explain it, but that would be extremely anti town to do so. I'm frustrated by ABR because he's not stupid yet he's ignoring the fact we're town and you're scum.

[Call of the Wild]

SW hydra chat. There's a reason I am overriding any suspicion of ABR but cannot say here.

[Call of the Wild]

The only possibility I see where this could be smart of ABR is if Nether is a Godfather but that's a few layers of speculation.

Despite how stupid ABR is right now, anyone not healing ABR is claiming scum.

[Call of the Wild]

Titus Thanks for explaining things to me. I want everyone to notice Nether's extremely scummy behavior around our mislynch.

~SW

[Call of the Wild]

I called back SW because she hadn't seen the town tell I had. I would be explaining it but that's one of the rare things that should be taken to the grave.

VOTE: Bard
VOTE: Nether

Give me a reason to vote Bard. Scum don't ignore Titus. Ever.

[Call of the Wild]

ABR, you just described Noether's posting. You're supposed to try to get me to vote Bard.

[Call of the Wild]

I was suspicious of Nether actually, right up until SW and you pulled your antics. Now I want you and Bard dead.

That's what I would say when I didn't want to lynch a buddy. That's innately frustrating because I still think you're town. It's a common logical progression of the over confident.

How does Nether "look better" after talking with SW? SW and I have the same alignment and I have been saying Nether is scum for ages.

Just how is my case on Nether "shoddy"? You've asked a couple questions but never addressed why my case was bad. Please do so.

~Titus

[Call of the Wild]

If pushing a scumread makes us scum, then I'm pretty much done here. It's ridiculous.

Nether's case on us was one of the worse cases I have seen in a game in a long time. I've been pushed by scum before. I have recent experience with that. I've caught scum pushing me with shit cases before.

BUT I agree this is getting us nowhere. Titus and I are both frustrated and there is nothing to be gained here from continuing. The truth will be shown and I only hope it isn't too late when people wake up and realize it.

Inte, Shinobi, FA-You have given no opinion on anything recently. Bard barely has. Performer barely has.

I feel like there is probably scum amoung this group. Not Performer as Shiro's behavior towards him practically confirmed him as town but outside of Nether, I think the other one is in the group of 4 I mentioned-Inte, FA, Shinobi, Bard.

They are too under the radar and playing things way too safe and hardly posting-indicative of scum hiding out. If I am somehow horribly wrong about Nether, then both of them are in this group. If that's the case, I don't know who the two are out of this four. They have not given me enough to say for sure which is why I think scum is in this group being cautious.

Avoiding the thread while we argue and saying nothing about it when they do show, is also a bad sign. One thing scum will do is let town do themselves in and never get involved. I firmly believe at least one scum is doing this.

~SW

[Call of the Wild]

It's comments like the above that make me believe tomorrow will be the same as today and I am about as frustrated with a game as I have ever been right now with this one. I wanted to talk to Titus to see if she wanted to compromise with ABR and because I was considering dropping out and in her words she said if I want to compromise I can but she doesn't compromise with dumbassery. She's not playing alone here either, if I go, she goes.

Sometimes standing up for what you believe is right and what is most important to your own well-being is more important than staying alive. We are 2 away from a lynch and VT.

You see I feel like we don't have a voice here. I feel like we were not listened to but rush voted for based on crap reasons. I feel like we are assumed scum with another or absolutely no reason. I can go ahead and list all the terrible comments and decisions but why should I? I feel like the only way to help town win is to be bullied into a vote and kept alive another day and for what? A town that doesn't think for themselves or listen?

I appreciate that ABR rethought this because it shows he's at least willing to see reason but unfortunately that's not enough. I will not put up with another day of this garbage. I simply won't.

If I thought people were being reasonable, I would try harder to stay. But they are not. There is very little reason that I can see for us to fight on. This is a mislynch where I am standing up for my beliefs and I am more than happy to die for that.

Do what you will.

~SW

[Call of the Wild]

I think part of that post is my fault. I said to SW that I don't compromise well when we catch scum. We make decisions together. I'm not playing alone.

SW thought that meant if she left, I left when I was really trying to say that I would try to back her play. I suck at cooperation when town.

Anatole, can you give your thoughts on the game state as a whole? Particularly Nether.

[Call of the Wild]

Anatole I don't emotionally manipulate as scum. I've had that used against me before to the point where a friend of mine had to apologize to me post game awhile ago. I don't believe in it. I can get emotional regardless of align, but I don't use it to manipulate. If I have emotions they are real.

I am not opposed to lynching bard. Why do you think he is scum?

~SW

[Call of the Wild]

FA is lying. The only time he's ever voted me based on emotions is when he's been scum and I'm town. He's ignoring everything else and making it about me is a huge red flag. He knows emotions are not alignment indicative for me and that I'd never emotionally manipulate as scum. I was holding back waiting to see who would hop on and why so I could catch scum. FA has not been active which is s scumtell of his and his vote and the reasoning for it reeks of opportunism.

~SW

[Call of the Wild]

Emotions are not alignment indicative for me no matter how you selectively spin it to look that way. Anyone trying to lynch me for that alone is scummy as shit. Especially for those that know me.

~SW

[Call of the Wild]

The whole exchange by SW and FAQ2 leaves out the true option. SW is emotional as wither alignment and emotion from scum is presumed to be fake rather than legit. Emotion is rarely faked. I subbed in for SW in a game where the emotion was real.

Sw, stop fighting town. Also, why did you say we're a VT when we're a ghoul cop?

catching this

[Call of the Wild]

@Titus

Do you claim a PR?

Yeah, we're a Ghoul Cop which is a fanciful way of stating Vanilla cop in this setup.

[Call of the Wild]

Anatole use your kill tonight.

Problem with lynching Bard is that I don't think we have the votes to do it without Call of the Wild.

Maybe after we lynch them and the night kills we will have sufficient votes.

So mislynch a townie to avoid facing Nether scum?

[Call of the Wild]

I am a Crypt Lord.

[Call of the Wild]

I can answer but I'd rather not for obvious reasons who we checked. I'm hoping for dumb scum here.

[Call of the Wild]

No.

[Call of the Wild]

So ABR, care to join me on Nether now?

[Call of the Wild]

How does you being a crypt lord make you check for ghouls at night?

I don't know why the mod did that. I can guess the mod made it that Ghouls are made in the crypt. Crypt Lord manages the crypt. Manages is a poor choice of word but I'm drunk.

[Call of the Wild]

The whole exchange by SW and FAQ2 leaves out the true option. SW is emotional as wither alignment and emotion from scum is presumed to be fake rather than legit. Emotion is rarely faked. I subbed in for SW in a game where the emotion was real.

Sw, stop fighting town. Also, why did you say we're a VT when we're a ghoul cop?

That was never in contention. The defeatist attitude was.

And the lies.

I'm saying you both were talking past each other. You're accusing SW of emotionally manipulating. SW implies she's not emotional as scum. Both are wrong. That is unless I'm totally misunderstanding.

She gets a defeatist attitude. That's why I'm here. I never go down without a fight unless I'm certain that my lynch benefits town. I don't see that happening, so I'll do what needs to be done.

Now, talk to me about Nether. He's obvious scum. Why aren't you voting him?

[Call of the Wild]

How does you being a crypt lord make you check for ghouls at night?

I don't know why the mod did that. I can guess the mod made it that Ghouls are made in the crypt. Crypt Lord manages the crypt. Manages is a poor choice of word but I'm drunk.

This makes no sense.

In fairness, the flavor does not really have to make much sense. The fact she is not a named character though - that bothers me with her claim. Lets see what her answer is to who was targeted.

If ABR wants me to, I can answer this. I'd rather not though as the next progression is outing whether someone is a PR. The only reason I'm even entertaining answering that is because my check results can be deduced by smart scum although that's not what the target intended.

[Call of the Wild]

To be fair, I wasn't crumbing the results, the target asked and answered in a manner that revealed the results.

[Call of the Wild]

Read 885 please. It's a scumclaim to crumb VT.

[Call of the Wild]

To be fair, I wasn't crumbing the results, the target asked and answered in a manner that revealed the results.

?

Now I have to repeat ABR:
This makes no sense.

The target said something which smart players could infer said player was a PR or not.

[Call of the Wild]

Read 885 please. It's a scumclaim to crumb VT.

How so?

He role played his part and that is something that I am not all that suspicious of in a themed game such as this.

The sole objective of a VT is to be loud, obvious scumhunt and die in place of PRs if necessary.

Nether has been sheepish.
Crumbing a role which scum would know is a VT

He hasn't been aggressive on a unique read at all.

I don't see ANYTHING townie in his ISO.

Shiro wanted Nether to be townie. That at best means either a) his reads are off or b) he's scum. There's no way Shiro says Nether's obvious town unless forced into that position.

[Call of the Wild]

If ABR wants me to, I can answer this. I'd rather not though as the next progression is outing whether someone is a PR. The only reason I'm even entertaining answering that is because my check results can be deduced by smart scum although that's not what the target intended.

I think you should answer.

We checked you.

[Call of the Wild]

We don't know that all VTs are ghouls...you're making random assumptions to support your Netherspite agenda...

This post right here says that you're either a PR or scum and that matches with the results.

VTs are ghouls. Scum would be provided with a VT Ghoul fakeclaim given the repetition of Ghouls. (Ghouls repeat a lot in Warcraft as well). The fact you denied this premise is either a) a fake towntell or b) proof you're a PR.

[Call of the Wild]

I did check you because I never trust you ABR. How many games have we had that we go round and round because you can't trust me or I can't trust you? So yeah I checked you.

I also never read on replacing in. Same is true in hydras. I figured you might have been playing VT right and fake claimed.

I also asked you not to make me reveal you're claiming a PR. Yet, you basically forced my hand into doing so.

Do you have any results or night actions? Since you're claiming a PR as well (and apparently nameless too) you might as well go full monte.

If you were an obvious PR, why didn't scum kill you instead of Brantz? They killed a ghoul. That's what makes no sense to me. Why didn't they kill you if you were obvious PR?

[Call of the Wild]

I'm not sure I believe this reaction. I shouldn't believe it. It's for that reason I kinda do. Sad or what?

I'm getting tired.

~Titus obviously

[Call of the Wild]

Yeah, I think I could do anything short of mod confirmed town and you'd still lynch me ABR.

I wonder why that is.

[Call of the Wild]

I'm playing with people who decided to substitute goo for brains today.

[Call of the Wild]

And the lies.

There was never any lies. But I really don't give a shit if you think there were.

If you're town, no hard feelings, I based my decision on facts and logic.

LOL, No. No one used facts or logic to lynch us. Not one ounce of facts or logic was ever used for our push or lynch.

There is scum on this wagon and on this push. Guarantee'd. If you don't find them tomorrow off of this, you will lose.

~SW

[Call of the Wild]

Shinobi you are not usually this bad.

You should be looked into tomorrow as well.

FA came off kind of townish in his reaction to Titus.

Nether is still scum.

Have no clue about Vedith.

ABR is not usually this bad either.

One thing you guys should know about me, is if you want me to cooperate, I will NEVER, EVER be bullied into doing something with voting or lynch threats. That's not how I operate as either alignment.

I am done here. Are we at L-1 yet?

~SW

[Call of the Wild]

RIght because I don't listen to illogical lies.

Nether crumbed VT. Scumclaim.
Shiro wants Nether to be town. Evidence he's scum.
Nether sheeps everyone and their brother. Scummy.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see he's scum.

The fact that I'm getting no substantive engagement out of anyone is alarming. I wish I would have fakeclaimed Nether not being a ghoul but I'm not going to impose my will on the town to prove something like that. The only time I've done it before I was wrong so :S

And the lies.

There was never any lies. But I really don't give a shit if you think there were.

If you're town, no hard feelings, I based my decision on facts and logic.

LOL, No. No one used facts or logic to lynch us. Not one ounce of facts or logic was ever used for our push or lynch.

There is scum on this wagon and on this push. Guarantee'd. If you don't find them tomorrow off of this, you will lose.

~SW

Fear of Titus scum baby.

There is scum on this wagon and on this push. Guarantee'd. If you don't find them tomorrow off of this, you will lose.

"you will lose"? Not "we will lose"? Interesting.

Right because we've done everything rihgt. You (whoever is town) just absoultely will not listen.
You will lose this game. We won't.

Nether crumbed VT. Scumclaim.

This is awful. If you thought Nether was lying about being a ghoul, why didn't you just check him?

Why check scumclaimers?

That's a waste.

That's like checking an innocent child.

Plus Nether only said he was crumbing ghoul Day 2. Never read his earlier posts until he said as much.

Hey sweetie, Do I have to do everything here including catch all your hydra slips?

~SW

[Call of the Wild]

This is awful. If you thought Nether was lying about being a ghoul, why didn't you just check him?

we've done everything rihgt

Let's pick this apart for a moment. Checking me was a bad play because I clearly wasn't a ghoul from my post on the 3rd page of the game, which you claim not to have read.

First mistake.

Checking Nether would guarantee that we know if he's scum or town, because if town PR, he wouldn't know that the VT = Ghoul. If I were you, as soon as Nether crumbed ghoul, I would have known to check him to get a guaranteed result.

So that's your second mistake.

Pushing Nether after everyone in the game except Bard says you're wrong, and then continuing with this and listening to nobody, trying to get killed, just dug your own hole. Mistake number three.

You've played an awful game.

But I tell you what.

I still have half a mind to vote for Bard right now if you promise to check Nether tonight. What's it going to be?

Telling town that they are about to be lynched that they are bad does nothing. If you wanted to work with us you should of done so. You did not.

You really need to learn to read between the lines.

I've said over and over I would vote for Bard. I have no issues checking Nether. I'll ask Titus.

~SW

[Call of the Wild]

Plus Nether only said he was crumbing ghoul Day 2. Never read his earlier posts until he said as much.

This shows me you don't know anything about this game, haven't read anything, or asked for clarification from the players who understand the flavor. You're massively at fault, one hundred percent in the wrong, and guilty as sin no matter how you slice it. You're the worst player in this entire game if you're town, given your massive fuck ups of misplaying your night action and outting me. If you're scum, you managed to unite the town against you and so you're still bad. This is a shit performance from you and SW. I don't care. You want to replace out, go ahead. If not then suck it up and play as a team BY VOTING BARD AND CHECKING NETHER.

Fuck off!! This game has been full of fucking shit play and you trying to tear us down as you are mislynching us only pisses me off and makes me want to tell you to go fuck yourself!!

~SW

[Call of the Wild]

If we lynch Bard, Nether should be shot.

Give me something. You talk about being a team player.

It's vote who you want, check who you want, and shoot who you want.

Team players means there's give AND take.

Helping Titus

[Call of the Wild]

If we lynch Bard, Nether should be shot.

Give me something. You talk about being a team player.

It's vote who you want, check who you want, and shoot who you want.

Team players means there's give AND take.

Not particularly attached to HOW Nether dies, just that he does.

And I'm out. SW can do whatever. Just make sure we get Nether dead or something.

Being a team player doesn't mean taking it in the ass because ABR is tunnelling and town doesn't give two shits to post and try.

~Titus

[Call of the Wild]

Why in 7 hell's would you ask Anatole to kill someone who can be 100% confirmed as town given his crumb and your action? You're sabotaging yourself.

100% CONFIRMED SCUM based off his crumb. Checking him is a waste.

Oh and why in god's green earth would I "sabatoge myself" as scum, refuse to vote Bard, who is likely vigged because King ABR wants it after my town flip?

[Call of the Wild]

SW, I don't compromise well. God damn it trying to log out but you keep pissing me off ABR.

Deal with this. If we get lynched, I know you did your best SW.

~Titus

[Call of the Wild]

I'm ending this one way or the fucking other!!

If I wasn't in a hydra, I'd self hammer cuz I'm pretty sure we are at L-1.

But I only self hammer as scum and we are town damn it and we are both at our max in frustration level!!

You want to work with us, you fucking work with us. You don't treat us like fucking garbage and expect us to kiss your fucking ass to stay alive.

You are letting scum go free while you mislynch town. I would be willing to fucking work with you if I thought you were reasonable. You are not.

~SW

[Call of the Wild]

VOTE: Bard

Bard will flip town. You'll shoot or vig or lynch Nether tomorrow. If you don't, we lynch you.
If I'm wrong, you can lynch/vig me tomorrow.

Nether's scum. Bard's town but I'm not getting through to you because you think town actually crumb VT and are town. Buddying is town. You have a pride issue. So do I. Yours gets in the way of seeing optimal play.

[Call of the Wild]

^^ was ovviously Titus.

[Call of the Wild]

You outed yourself ABR. Twice according to you.

There will be no proof because I'm right. I expect an apology after Bard flips town. Nether should be vigged when people see I'm the right one.

I'm not checking Nether. Deal with it.

[Call of the Wild]

Wahh.

I don't read shit. It's my policy in every game. The why is never as important as the when. Why is charisma. What is strategy. Who is alignment. Why is the least important indicator. People claim it's the most, but they're defaulting to the other two. Why is just likability.

You may not like me, but I'm effective late game because I ignore charisma and garbage like that.

[Call of the Wild]

*When and Who are alignment.

[Call of the Wild]

You think Nether is scum because he crumbs VT by use of flavor. Maybe he's actually a ghoul? No, according to you, he's 100% scum. That doesn't make any sense. He might be scum, but how is he 100% scum because he knew that ghouls were VTs? One does not follow the other. Stop using your role power selfishly.

Scum have fake claims.
Town do not and should not ever crumb VT. Period. Nether's scum.

You know I'm town. You know I'm a good strategist. So why do you think my action is selfish? You presume that. You presume that an action that goes against you is wrong. Strategy is what I do. I'm one of the best at it at either alignment. Using a VT checker on someone you already know the alignment of is a waste.

[Call of the Wild]

If Nether's actually a ghoul, that's going in the gamethrowing file.

[Call of the Wild]

So basically if I lied, I could be lynching Nether right now. That's what you're telling me. Guess what, I don't lie about guilties as town. Doesn't happen.

Anyone with any competent knowledge or who did their homework on flavor knew about repeating ghouls once seeing the PM. You're giving him the benefit of the doubt. There's zero protown motivation in crumbing flavor as a VT. None unless your flavor would trick people into believing you're a PR. I've seen THAT once. Where a VT was a doctor character. So a townie crumbed it. Then it was misleading to take a bullet.

[Call of the Wild]

If I get a VT role that says ghoul, I might assume that there were other VT roles such as Crypt Fiend, Gargoyle, Skeleton, Acolyte, whatever. Those are perfectly reasonable VT roles, named differently than mine flavor-wise. So if I did think that, I wouldn't be afraid to make zombie jokes and so on.

Sure a town might have speculated those might be VTs but ghoul doesn't fit anything but VT.

Towns don't stick a sign on their back saying I'm a VT. Don't shoot me so you can hit a PR.

[Call of the Wild]

VT's do NOT crumb VT. They try to take the NK. Crumbing VT is a pure survival mechanism that no VT should ever do.

~SW

[Call of the Wild]

There's zero protown motivation in crumbing flavor as a VT.

Yeah and there's zero protown motivation in not reading the first 3 pages of the game. Maybe as scum you don't care about scumhunting. This is why so many people think you're scum, including vezok who replaced out. We make sense and you don't. You need to accept that.

You should have no problem coming back tomorrow with definite proof of Nether's alignment. I expect no less from you.

There's plenty. I've mastered VCA without reading. I don't make sense because you don't want me to make sense. You're in denial.

I'm out. Nether dies tomorrow and I'm not checking him.

[Call of the Wild]

VT's do NOT crumb VT. They try to take the NK. Crumbing VT is a pure survival mechanism that no VT should ever do.

~SW

This. You keep dodging this. You spin it. You change it. So much this.

[Call of the Wild]

ghoul doesn't fit anything but VT

There's another role called the "Abomination" that eats brains. It can be a PR.

Nether saying stuff like "brains" at the beginning of the game isn't crumbing VT.

Now you're changing his crumbs. For fucks sake.

[Call of the Wild]

Nether admitted that's exactly what he did. Speculating on the what if's doesn't matter. He crumbed VT and admitted it.

~SW

[Call of the Wild]

He didn't crumb VT. He crumbed flesh-eating zombie, which can be a PR (ie: abomination). It's only after the ghoul VT flip on day 2 that we retroactively assumed that he was crumbing ghoul. You have the timeline all wrong.

NETHER SAID HE WAS CRUMBING GHOUL ALL ALONG.

[Call of the Wild]

Ewww Nether..your posting is gross. Ghoul is a VT. You don't get credit for crumbing VT, presuming you did.

Man...you are funny....I guess you have a point in being proud of playing out your Vanilla role lol.

Yeah, no.
I didn't crumb VT. I crumbed Ghoul.

Me not human anymore!
Me eat brains!

Here is where I got this quote ("Me eat brains!") from: http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Quotes_of ... ad_Scourge
Plus "Me not human anymore" was another huge hint for the Ghoul.

The only players who knew that VT flavor in this game is Ghoul were VTs.

He was intending to crumb ghoul. Which is intending to crumb VT.

Ghoul = VT. Ghoul isn't going to magically equal a PR.

[Call of the Wild]

Listen, I came out of the gate voting for Netherspite today because I thought he was scum. It's only after you went against him that he showed that he was more likely to be town than you. Your arguments are plain bad and you're not listening to anyone except your ego and your other head. Way to go.

Actually no. I'll give you some more quotes with that too...

~Titus

[Call of the Wild]

@ABR, How is Nether scum with Shiro's open with him.

Gale is also on the no touchy list with Shaded.

Ewww Nether..your posting is gross. Ghoul is a VT. You don't get credit for crumbing VT, presuming you did.

I've read through

Shiro

's ISO.
Interesting thing: he was pushing (to some degree at least) all the scummy people.
Was he just bussing them? He will still win if scum will. He doesn't need to survive.
Or am I completely wrong about who's scummy and who ain't?

He loses if the scum die and he knows who they are. He isn't going to bus or try to lynch them. It plays directly against his wincon.

vote performer

This needs death. Does anyone agree?

Do you even read or pay attention? The way Shiro was trying to rush lynch Performer at the end there means it is HIGHLY likely that Performer is town.

FFS

~SW

......

Of course I don't have a scourge character You just..... Did you just claim scum FA? you just voted me for believing I am not scourge

She wouldn't say her partner "claimed scum".

Revisiting my nether read though. His posting today is terrible.

Townreading both his buddies just sets up obvious associatives and Shiro isn't dumb so for today we can exclude them. I think Titus was having second thoughts on Nether but this is not really something I'm too concerned about today.

We should go with the nulls who are:

-inte

-Silver Bard

-Shinobi

-Vedith

Of those, inte is the worst so that's where I'm at.

~SW

@silverwolf: if shiro is smart that means he knows wifom and he can town read his buddies. Why are you eliminating the town reads immediately?

Because it sets up obvious associatives and he has to keep them alive until endgame.

Also, this from Titus:

......
Of course I don't have a scourge character You just..... Did you just claim scum FA? you just voted me for believing I am not scourge

She wouldn't say her partner "claimed scum".
Revisiting my nether read though. His posting today is terrible.

This means he isn't likely to accuse his partner of claiming scum if FA was scum. This is the post from Nether Titus didn't like so if one of the townreads is scum, this is likely it:

Lol, just realized that voting me at this point is basically a scumclaim.
Just because I softclaimed and roleplayed a Ghoul before anyone ever mentioned it and before we had the flip of another Ghoul.

Ewww Nether..your posting is gross. Ghoul is a VT. You don't get credit for crumbing VT, presuming you did.

And then there's this about Silver Bard:

I like where I am voting
Bard came in made one post that appeases both sides(Showed concern over me and voted vezokpiraka) and left.

Which doesn't exclude him but means he's less likely than some of the others at this point.

I also had a townread on FA and Shinobi per this 453 and a much milder one on Vedith and Bard and didn't like Nether at the time so.

Prefer inte lynch today still.

~SW

[Call of the Wild]

Nether's argument with me was that we documented all the possibilities with Vezok and are therefore scum.

He said we voted FB, which many others were doing and were therefore scum.

He says shiro ignored us despite us replacing in late and barely talking to Shiro.

He said we didn't scumhunt on D1 when I clearly did.

There is no way he looks town from that shit case on us.

~SW

[Call of the Wild]

NETHER SAID HE WAS CRUMBING GHOUL ALL ALONG.

This became obvious after the day 2 flip so there wasn't any point to deny it. The only reason you would be so stubborn about this is because you had a role that knew ghouls were VT. Congratulations on misplaying your role.

I need you to say you will check Nether tonight. We need to put this to bed. If Nether is scum, he's going to kill you anyway and then we lynch him. If he doesn't kill you, well maybe he was town all along and you've made a mistake that you can correct on Day 3.

Anyone reading that (which admittedly I wasn't) should have voted Nether then.

Sure I'll say I'll check Nether. It'll be a lie. But hey what's a lie to you anyway?

[Call of the Wild]

ABR, there's only so much cooperation you're getting from me.

I'm voting a lurker lynch already that is a counterwagon to scum. That already pisses me off. I'm not a doormat.

I'll give you my word that I make a smart check tonight.

That's all I give you. I am a woman of my word. I don't lie about doing stupid things to appease people who won't lynch scum.

[Call of the Wild]

If Bard flips scum, I'll check Nether.
If Bard flips town, you'll shut up and lynch Nether with me if he's not vigged. k?

[Call of the Wild]

Bard's not flipping scum, so that's illusory.

[Call of the Wild]

Now we've gone at it for pages. Can you just accept that's the best you're going to get so i can go to bed? My buzz is wearing off.

Thanks

Titus

[Call of the Wild]

You don't have a solid case on Netherspite. What you do have, is a rare chance to prove Nether's guilt beyond any reasonable doubt.

This is what I need you to do. I need you to prove that he's scum. I know that if you're town, you won't lie about your result tomorrow. You have integrity. This is why I'm willing to trust you when you say that you will come back with proof tomorrow on Nether. If you're lying scum, we will lynch you, as simple as that.

Nether's guilt has already been proven beyond a reasonable doubt. You're just not employing reason.

You've got my answer. If you're right on Bard, I'll check Nether. You're not though, so you have to keep pushing for more.

[Call of the Wild]

I will vote for Nether when you come back with proof that he's scum. I am waiting for you to promise you will check Nether tonight. No qualifiers, conditions, nothing. I don't want to find out who else is a ghoul or a PR, I really don't, Titus. I'm tired. I just want to know if Nether is lying scum or town. Please help me prove his alignment. You have the night action to accomplish this task.

I already have.

I'm not doing a check on known scum. You're wanting me to promise to do something stupid. I'm not going to. If I'm wrong about how I'm reading the game, I'll do something stupid because stupid = smart. I'm not being stupid when I'm right all along.

[Call of the Wild]

It's pretty clear, you're right on Bard, I'm your bitch.
You're wrong on Bard, you're my bitch.

I'd rather make this bet on Nether, but you're just so hellbent on that read being right because you have to be better than me. Seriously, you're whole reason for abandoning that isn't anything Nether did it was that I agreed with you.

[Call of the Wild]

I already did.

I'm tired of this too. You have my answer. Stop asking the same question and looking for a different result.

I'm out.

~Titus

[Call of the Wild]

Not necessarily.

Godfathers can avoid detection from vanilla/town rolecops in some variants.

Nether crumbed VT. Nether is guilty. That's not hard.

@FAQ2, Can you vote Bard please?

[Call of the Wild]

I'm a named character. It will prove Nether's alignment because he claimed to be a ghoul. Titus believes that the mod gave him a VT fakeclaim which he used to crumb ghoul on Day 1. There's a small chance that this is true. If so, checking him would return a non-ghoul result, confirming his lie, and reveal him as scum.

since when?

A VC gets the same result from a VT as they do a mafia goon. Even though this is a themed game, the general way a role works is not changed AFAIK. They would get a vanilla result even if nether was a standard mafia goon whatever the flavor surrounding it is. Are you claiming otherwise CotW?

No. I'm not. I've also seen universal Godfather variants. A guilty would be damning but unlikely. An innocent doesn't confirm anything.

Checking Nether is a waste.

[Call of the Wild]

I'm claiming your analysis is correct I think FAQ2.

[Call of the Wild]

Good night. Leave questions.

It's alsmot midnight.

~Titus

[Call of the Wild]

You can't bet with me when I can put you right back at L-1.

This has never worked against me in any game it's been tried.

I am also going to bed. It's even later here.

~SW

[Call of the Wild]

Right cuz as scum we'd go after a VT.

[Call of the Wild]

JFC I hope others can see through your BS.

People need to think outside the box and read between the lines.

[Call of the Wild]

Keep pushing our mislynch. It makes you look so town.

[Call of the Wild]

Your flip will make me look incredibly towny.

No it will not. You've done nothing but push town this day. Absolutely nothing else.

[Call of the Wild]

Keep pushing our mislynch. It makes you look so town.

A mis lynch could be as much a town tell as scum tell...
Saying that someone is scum for believing incorrectly is more scummy imo.

That's exactly what you're doing to us. :S

[Call of the Wild]

There's 10 alive.
2 scum.
Scum won't bus Nether.
Possible SK.

Mislynch me, two townies die.

7 alive
2 scum plus Anatole

Game in possible lylo.

[Call of the Wild]

I think you guys should look at Shinobi tomorrow. His play today is not the town Shinobi I know from other games.

~SW

[Call of the Wild]

That's exactly what you're doing to us. :S

The difference is you have tried to point blame every where but you and Bard...

This is a no win situation. We are assumed scum with another player using preflip associations and bad reasoning. No one even know Bard's alignment but we are assumed scum with him. This is just plain bad and extremely frustrating to boot.

~SW

[Call of the Wild]

That's exactly what you're doing to us. :S

The difference is you have tried to point blame every where but you and Bard...

Why would we blame the only other player who is voting scum?

[Call of the Wild]

@AK, It is an inconsistency if you're town. If I was scum and all town PRs were "named", then I'd have a named PM as well. I don't.

So far, all I've seen are named people being anti-town or vig. You're not eliminated from being the SK (but it would be foolish to lynch you). ABR is probably town due to Shiro interactions but changing his mind on Nether when it picks up steam is scummy. There's no link FMPOV that town PRs have names.

[Call of the Wild]

I'm a named character. It will prove Nether's alignment because he claimed to be a ghoul. Titus believes that the mod gave him a VT fakeclaim which he used to crumb ghoul on Day 1. There's a small chance that this is true. If so, checking him would return a non-ghoul result, confirming his lie, and reveal him as scum.

So you think ABR is lying about being town or about having a name?

No, although ABR's stupidity and opportunism regarding Nether do make me paranoid from time to time. Shiro's treatment of him is likely not buddy buddy. I'm presuming that Nether would be a godfather type role to my cop similar to steven's universe or that mafia goon would give a false ghoul result. Either way, Nether scum must feel confident enough to lie and not get busted for it.

If Nether isn't actually a godfather, then scum need me lynched/removed today just in case I decide to be dumb.

[Call of the Wild]

And my response was an answer.

1) If you're both town, it's an inconsistency.
2) I am not sure if you're both town. ABR is solely due to the treatment Shiro gave him.
3) You're not groupscum (as vig or SK) but I don't know you're town considering your slot's refusal to vote scum.

[Call of the Wild]

885 trumps bullshit. Sorry Nether.

Also Nether a crypt lord is an undead unit that manages the same building ghouls come from. Any name I'd make up (if I felt like doing research) would fit the right side.

I pushed you before you pushed me. I was obvious town prior to pushing you. Only after I agree to vote scum does anyone push me.

You seem to think that all our PRs have claimed? Based on what? The only way to know that is if you have some idea on what scum has. I don't.