Mini 1748: ClownTardis Mafia - GAME OVER!

[Davsto]

Everyone's doing all of this RVS, and I say, no more!

I'll do some Who-themed RQS:

Favourite alien race?
Favourite Master?
Favourite episode?

My answers for them are:
Ood
John Simm
Midnight


PEdit seriously guys The Doctor is The Doctor as in the character, are people over-interpreting things already? Oh dear.

[Davsto]

I think that one you're referring to is probably Midnight

The one with the woman who repeats everything

[Davsto]

We really need to organise some sort of wording to differentiate between referring to The Doctor (character) and a Doctor (protecting role).

I know it's not canonically correct, but let's refer to The Doctor (character) as "Doctor Who" all the time, to avoid confusion with the protective role Doctor.

Sound good?

[Davsto]

Something tells me that Aristophanes is reading waayyy too much into something which we have already shown to be confusing to refer to, plus Frozen isn't native English speaker so she's obviously going to have trouble communicating.

[Davsto]

The game is five pages in, the hell do you expect me to do, have a read on literally everyone? I'm like Regigigas; I can have quite a slow start to games very often.

The capitals/non-capitals thing just isn't explicit enough. We need a way to refer to Doctor/doctor in a way such as we know exactly which is being referred to. You saw the confusion earlier, why act like that's not something that should be avoided in even the most obtuse way possible?

Rob basically just came in and repeated everything Bro has already said ("Dav ain't done much" (ignoring that others haven't done much, that the game is 5 pages in so of course I'm not gonna be having reads on everyone) and "Mala is town because vagueness").

Basically,
VOTE: Rob13

[Davsto]

This post is p bad too.

reeks of OMGUS, self-meta etc. I actually have to agree with both Rob and BRO here though. You haven't shown any signs of scumhunting yet such as asking questions, engaging etc or even giving any thoughts. All you have done is either play with flavor discussions.

OMGUS isn't a scumtell, also OMGUS is voting someone just because they voted you. My reason for voting Rob is because he's scummy. The meaning of OMGUS has now become a buzzword and an excuse to scumread anyone who happens to be scumreading the person voting for them.

Self-meta is acceptable when used to point out things that are null tells. If I am being voted purely for something I have done in town games, am I not allowed to point out that it's something I've done in town games?

Also, please don't start with the blatantly false "you've done no scumhunting" stuff because I literally just got out of a game where it happened to a ridiculous extent despite me clearly having scumhunted. Like, you can't accuse me of not scumhunting while I have posts like this

The game is five pages in, the hell do you expect me to do, have a read on literally everyone? I'm like Regigigas; I can have quite a slow start to games very often.

The capitals/non-capitals thing just isn't explicit enough. We need a way to refer to Doctor/doctor in a way such as we know exactly which is being referred to. You saw the confusion earlier, why act like that's not something that should be avoided in even the most obtuse way possible?

Rob basically just came in and repeated everything Bro has already said ("Dav ain't done much" (ignoring that others haven't done much, that the game is 5 pages in so of course I'm not gonna be having reads on everyone) and "Mala is town because vagueness").

Basically,
VOTE: Rob13

[Davsto]

I'm saying that to Mala, who said that after that post.

And, again, I can have a slow start to games and take a while to start scumhunting. I had like 4 posts for fuck's sake. Deal with it.

[Davsto]

So far I have two scum reads. Davsto for his 27 and 76. The former providing nothing to the game other than to have a little fun based on the flavor.

Didn't you reply to said fun-based flavour?

Also, I am a fun guy, and a HUUUUUGE Doctor Who fan. I wasn't gonna miss this opportunity to talk about my favourite TV show.

[Davsto]

So there are 13 separate actors who have played the Doctor.

I think you mean 14

Peter Cushing is totally canon

[Davsto]

Oh for crying out loud, me being a bit slow D1 is entirely null, go put your vote somewhere that is useful.

Also, nothing? Please don't make this game be a repeat of Prozac's Basic Theme where I did loads of shit and still got voted for doing nothing which was blatantly false.

[Davsto]

Goddamn it I'm very often slow D1 and can take a while to catch onto things, give me a fucking break.

Read this
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... ct[]=26159

That's my ISO in Prozac's Basic Theme where, would you believe it, I was town. Skim it. You will see that I can be slow D1, and hopefully reconsider your vote.

Also, show me how I'm "trying too hard to be helpful", because right now both the people scumreading me literally have opposite reasons and that just smells like bullshit.

[Davsto]

61? Serious question? Which post is that...

I am fairly certain Davsto is town.

how?

...right, because that is much more serious and engaging than anything I've done in this game.

I would say that my first post in that game thst isn't weak, lacking substance, basically what you're scumreading me for is 553, maybe 473 at a stretch.

8 or 9 posts in a 236 post game with little usefulness (although, I must insist, some usefulness) isn't even comparable to 20 posts in a 500 where the closest thing that was useful was the easy question "why?", and the latter is the one where I was town.

Hell, you jumped on me after 4 (four) posts of little content, fluff etc, does the fact that ISO begins with considerably more posts of fluff not even slightly make you think that youre misled?

[Davsto]

I don't see the games as particularly similar. Early in the other game, you're questioning why someone sees you as town and acknowledging you haven't done much. In this game, you

tried to make the case that you've significantly scum-hunted

when you haven't, and then seem to have switched tactics to saying you never do much early Day 1. It does warrant more investigation, and I'll try to look into your meta more in the near future, but I'm fairly busy and am not sure when I'll get to it. I'm not voting for you now or advocating your lynch today, so I don't see it as particularly urgent.

I'll hopefully get to it after my V/LA.

Uh, no.

I said I've scumhunted. I have scumhunted a bit. Sure, not loads, but no less than that game I linked. Nowhere did I say I've "significantly" scumhunted or the like. You look like you're just making up stuff in the hope people won't see the problems with it.

[Davsto]

Prodge. I'll do some shit some time today when I have time and it's not 9AM.

[Davsto]

Prodge. I'll do some shit some time today when I have time and it's not 9AM.

Bullshit. You made half a dozen posts in other threads over the course of the next hour.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Davsto

Because reading like 9 pages is really convenient and quick, amirite?

I prioritise some games over others. This is low on my list right now. Give me some goddamn space.

[Davsto]

When I say that I'm going to do something, I fucking do it. Leave me alone until I can do so.

This game is going to become a repeat of Prozac's BT4 at this rate and that was awful for me.

[Davsto]

Ok Davasto lets try talking about the game at hand! Whats your read about Persival - Rob fight?

Well let's see...

Just to be very clear, my flavor spoiler was meant more to educate on regenerations than to speculate. I probably did more speculation than I should have. The mod probably did randomize scum to regenerations now that I think about it. It would have been wise to do so.

Adaptive, I have to think about what you just said in terms of the timing.

I don't see much testing the waters from newb-scum. I generally see either aggressiveness or passiveness in a fairly absolute form, at least very early in the game. Testing the waters comes from newb-town unsure how to find scum more often than newb-scum trying to figure out where to push, in my experience.

Also, that Persivul transition is

awful

. Like, completely awful.

VOTE: Persivul

Convenient unvote just after Persivul unvoted Rob. I think Rob was looking for an excuse to vote Persivul but didn't want it to be seen as OMGUS.

1) You moved onto me when I had two votes (highest at the time) with some really shitty reasoning. You argued the reasoning to the ends of the earth, using strong statements such as "reek of scum", which isn't itself scummy, but ...

2) Other people move off of me, and then suddenly you "feel better about me". You don't give any rationale for this at all. You do reference today's posting and now say you switched to me due to "scummy posting" in the first place, so I assume you haven't gone back on your reasoning from before and are just claiming I'm less scummy lately.

This does not feel like a natural transition at all. It feels like you hopped on to me when a wagon formed and hopped off when the wagon left. Your rationale for joining the wagon looks manufactured. Worse, you're saying that my posts lately which seem townish or nullish (we don't even know, because you've given none of that rationale) somehow nullify my posts earlier that "reek of scum" enough so that you want to vote Soren over me (who you've apparently seen nothing scummy enough from to bother referencing any post or play of his).

You don't need a PBPA to make a vote. You probably should give a reason if you don't want it to look contrived. I'm going to need to hear why you're no longer voting me and why you are voting Soren if I'm to remove my vote from you, because from what I can see, your move onto and off of me look awful.

This post is a flat-out lie. Persivul was the first person to move off voting Rob. Me and Not_Mafia were both also voting Rob, and we hadn't moved our votes off Rob. There's twisting facts, but this is simply lying to make Persivul look bad.

Persivul, like 3 people said they thought I was town between your vote and unvote. The wagon was sinking fast.

Moving the goalposts. He started off saying "moved off me" and talking about votes, and then once Persivul points out he was lying about the votes, he backpedals and says "nonono I meant pressure and people off the wagon saying I'm town".
Basically, Persivul makes good points, whereas Rob finds a flimsy excuse to start voting Persivul and then that falls apart upon expansion. Rob, scum.

Frozen Angel moving the goalposts too, going from "you're not asking me questions" to "you're not asking me questions

I like

, when any town player would just answer those questions when they're presented to them on a silver platter.

I was asking why you made the comment about Not_Mafia's username in the first place.

Also please don't patronise me. I don't find it funny or clever.

-t

Since when did you need a reason to make a joke?

P-edit: I thought at the time that the Davsto wagon was hitting resistance because he was scum. No-one publicly said they had a town-read on Davsto iirc, so that option is highly unlikely. That wagon just kind of went caput for no reason.

There are, what, 13 players in this game? How would my wagon hitting resistance have any bearing on my alignment? Presuming 3:10 scum:town, at most I'd have two people contributing to my wagon meeting resistance due to my alignment. Nothing explains the rest.

Aristophanes has been prodded.

TRANSITION ALERT

Since I voted ari for lurking but he has now been prodded, my vote is no longer needed there and I'm moving it to:

VOTE: FA_Q2

Persivul's taunting of Rob and the like ("TRANSITION ALERT") reads as very town. Scum don't like to intentionally provoke other players who scumread them into scumreading them more. He's literally drawing as much attention as possible to the thing that Rob scumread him for. That doesn't seem like a thing scum would like to do.

[Davsto]

Pers, the reason I don't consider two kills to confirm is that FBI Agent is a great fake claim for an SK.

Think about it. You get the two kills to "confirm". Scum don't kill you because you can't investigate on them. It's pretty airtight.

I thought about your claim and how it could/couldn't be confirmed, and I concluded that there was no feasible way to confirm it without assuming that an SK wouldn't lie. And that's obviously not a good assumption to make.

This reasoning is flawed. Why would an SK fakeclaim FBI Agent? Through being an SK, he'd know there's quite a risk of there being an FBI Agent in the game, and as such fakeclaiming FBI brings with it quite a decent chance of being counter-claimed.

Davsto, as I've already explained, it's in Persivul's scum meta that he is heavily antagonistic toward town. Check Blitz 1 and his treatment of ETL.

Still reading, just wanted to post this before I forget, because the rationale behind Davsto's town-read on Pers based on our interaction is deeply flawed.

I want a response to this from Davsto.

I prefer to use my own experiences with someone for meta reads than use someone else's. Meta is easy to bend to your will as the user of the meta, and the subject of the meta can purposefully manipulate their own meta. I'm perfectly fine with "X does this as town so it's not a scumtell", but not "X does this as town so he's town for doing it" or "X does this as scum so he's scum for doing this". Basically, I'll trust my own reads, thanks.

[Davsto]

Pers, the reason I don't consider two kills to confirm is that FBI Agent is a great fake claim for an SK.

Think about it. You get the two kills to "confirm". Scum don't kill you because you can't investigate on them. It's pretty airtight.

I thought about your claim and how it could/couldn't be confirmed, and I concluded that there was no feasible way to confirm it without assuming that an SK wouldn't lie. And that's obviously not a good assumption to make.

This reasoning is flawed. Why would an SK fakeclaim FBI Agent? Through being an SK, he'd know there's quite a risk of there being an FBI Agent in the game, and as such fakeclaiming FBI brings with it quite a decent chance of being counter-claimed.

Davsto, as I've already explained, it's in Persivul's scum meta that he is heavily antagonistic toward town. Check Blitz 1 and his treatment of ETL.

Still reading, just wanted to post this before I forget, because the rationale behind Davsto's town-read on Pers based on our interaction is deeply flawed.

I want a response to this from Davsto.

I prefer to use my own experiences with someone for meta reads than use someone else's. Meta is easy to bend to your will as the user of the meta, and the subject of the meta can purposefully manipulate their own meta. I'm perfectly fine with "X does this as town so it's not a scumtell", but not "X does this as town so he's town for doing it" or "X does this as scum so he's scum for doing this". Basically, I'll trust my own reads, thanks.

1) SK setups are wonky, and multiple FBI Agents are not unheard of, especially if the SK has a lot going in their favor for abilities. They could easily argue that. FBI Agents in general are not frequently in setups because the SK generally needs things going in their advantage. This is a point that doesn't really matter, though, because I'm no longer interested in lynching Persivul this day.

2) I'm not arguing "X does this as town so he's town". I'm arguing "X does this as town, so you can't say X is scum because he just did this". That's very different, and it's a logically bulletproof argument. If you say "Action Y ---> X is scum", and I show you an instance of "Action Y AND X is not scum", then your argument is incorrect. It's literally the negation of your argument if you go through the truth tables from a basic logic class.

I'm like 90% sure what you're saying in the original quoted post is "Persivul is being antagonistic and as such he's scum". Considering that you were the one scumreading Persivul while I was townreading him and that post was made to deconstruct this, why is it that you're suddenly acting like you were saying he was town?

[Davsto]

Like, I'm genuinely confused by that reply, because what you went and did is say exactly the opposite of what you were saying in that original quoted post.

[Davsto]

Soren, just want to prove a point to Pers for a second, because I'm getting furious at him lying about me lying (because honestly, that's what it's come down to):

Did you unvote in direct response to what I posted, both his crumb and the rationale for why Dav is better?

P-edit: Dav, I mistyped a bit I think. Basically flip all the uses of town and scum. I got into so much X and Y and town and scum that I flipped the two by accident.

I'm saying you said he was town because of action Y. I showed you an instance of him doing action Y as scum. Ergo, he can NOT be town because of action Y.

He can still be town, but not because of action Y. Basically, I'm saying your read is utter and complete trash. You should take the meta evidence that I provided directly contradicting it and reconsider. If you come up with Town!Pers, that's fine, whatever, but you need a reason that isn't directly contradicted by meta evidence.

Ahh, I see.

The antagonism isn't the reason I'm townreading him (I'm not sure if I ever said that). It's because you - and several others - have been scumreading him because of his hoppy votes, quick transitions, etc. Rather than trying to do it less because you scumread him for it, he keeps doing it intentionally, and even pointing it out. It seems like quite a carefree attitude where he doesn't really care whether he gets lynched or not, which is weird for scum to do, considering he's close to being lynched. Even more if you think he's SK - as Mafia, being lynched is bad, but at least it doesn't instantly mean you lose.

[Davsto]

I' not scum reading him because of hoppy votes davasto. whats your opinion about my case against him?

Could you briefly sum it up in one post (or link me to a post where you did so) just so it's easier to find? Because it seems rather spread over your ISO

[Davsto]

I' not scum reading him because of hoppy votes davasto. whats your opinion about my case against him?

Could you briefly sum it up in one post (or link me to a post where you did so) just so it's easier to find? Because it seems rather spread over your ISO

Not gonna help you. there is a conversation between me and Him about it <<

I've looked and... is the case that he starts with people town and then reads them as scum when they do scummy things, while you start with them as scum and change when you think they're not scum?

That's just a playstyle difference, not anything to scumread him on. Different people play different ways, there is not one way to scumhunt.

Is there any part of your case I missed?

[Davsto]

Question is, would mafia!Persi claim FBI?

He wouldn't, because if he guesses from setup spec that:
there isn't an SK, it would soon become apparent and he'd get fucked over.
there is an SK, he is painting a big target on his arse for a crosskill (as well as a risk of being counterclaimed).

This claim reinforces my townread on him.

[Davsto]

Oh looks like I was right about Persivul slot, how strange.

Welcome to RCMafia.

Where the reads are made up and the votes don't matter.

[Davsto]

Pers, the reason I don't consider two kills to confirm is that FBI Agent is a great fake claim for an SK.

Think about it. You get the two kills to "confirm". Scum don't kill you because you can't investigate on them. It's pretty airtight.

I thought about your claim and how it could/couldn't be confirmed, and I concluded that there was no feasible way to confirm it without assuming that an SK wouldn't lie. And that's obviously not a good assumption to make.

This reasoning is flawed. Why would an SK fakeclaim FBI Agent? Through being an SK, he'd know there's quite a risk of there being an FBI Agent in the game, and as such fakeclaiming FBI brings with it quite a decent chance of being counter-claimed.

It would more likely be a mafia fake-claim. Given that ffery has provided explicit safe fake-claims in the past (and I would think ffery + Syr almost certainly do). Also given that the game is role madness (which I presume means practically everyone has some non-vanilla role).
So it's either a true claim which could indicate the presence of an SK, or it's a mod-provided fakeclaim for mafia.

I really doubt it's a mod-provided fakeclaim *for* the SK if one exists. This reasoning is flawed.

Question is, would mafia!Persi claim FBI?

He wouldn't, because if he guesses from setup spec that:
there isn't an SK, it would soon become apparent and he'd get fucked over.
there is an SK, he is painting a big target on his arse for a crosskill (as well as a risk of being counterclaimed).

This claim reinforces my townread on him.

This reasoning is also flawed. If Persivul finds himself under pressure of lynch of course he uses a mod-provided fakeclaim.
For all I know he could be x-shot BP killless scum rolecop.

I honestly don't know how you arrived at your Persivul townread Davsto.
I think I'll get a better read on the slot from RC frankly.

How do you know that scum gets mod-provided fakeclaims? You seem awfully adamant in that assertion.

[Davsto]

Oh right, fair enough, missed that.

Adaptive is bugging me though. Apparently my play wouldn't come from town because... I'm townreading someone they're not? Like, I'm not going to just blindly agree with everyone, if I have some reads of my own, then I'm going to defend who I think is town.

[Davsto]

This is interesting.

I'm at L-1, and I don't think I've seen a single half-decent reason for voting me.

I was slow early today, which is part of a non-alignment-indicative meta that two people have corroborated, so voting me for that is bullshit.

Me defending Persivul? Scummy? I was the next biggest wagon after him, and if people decided to move off him, I'd likely be the next lynch. What sort of batshit scum motive would I have to defend Persivul?

Other than that, I've seen no reasons. Come on guys, this is just pathetic. I've given some decent reasons for Rob being scum, and there he is sitting there and lazily pushing me, likely because he knew I was onto him.

For crying out loud, anyone with half a brain can see that my wagon is absolutely awful, scum-motivated, and lacking any competent reasons.

Lynch scum, not someone who is being a bit slow day one because he's an easy target.

[Davsto]

The way both Rob and Adaptive are acting as if it's not a counterclaim and really, really trying hard to avoid a confrontation from this by picking at what Frozen said rather than what we all know Frozen means is highly suspect.

[Davsto]

I'm the Third Doctor and my role is equivalent to that of a Jailkeeper (it has a fancy name, though).

Counter claiming - I'm the fifth doctor and my role is like jailkeeper (we can't all be similar can we?)

LYNCH THE SCUM

VOTE: Rob

Here's Frozen's (counter)claim. However, rather than assuming that since she has the role she knows it better than you do, you pick at her use of the word "like" to avoid having to pick a side.

Rob said his role is *equivalent* to Jailkeeper. I take that to mean his role is Jailkeeper, just couched in different terms.
You said yours is *like* Jailkeeper. I take that to mean it performs a different function.

I'm about 90% confident that safe fakeclaims will be provided to scum in this game. ffery provided them in the *blitz* game I played with her modding most recently. There's no reason they aren't provided here in a role madness game with lots of flavour with both ffery AND Syr modding.

So if you're counterclaiming I want to know what the role is. "Like Jailkeeper" is not enough for me to buy it at all. Especially when a Jailkeeper lynch would obviously be most advantageous for scum.
Are you counterclaiming a role which is

the same

as Jailkeeper?

---
Anyway, going to review stuff and catch up a bit better.

Like so.

Even now, when Frozen Angel has clarified what she has said, you're trying to avoid picking a side between Frozen Angel and Rob, and trying to move the focus.

Off to school now, ta-ra.

[Davsto]

Hmm.

ISOing Shiro.

[Davsto]

Only scumread is noticeable imo in Shiro's ISO is that of Rob near the end, with a vote,

Damn

Vote:Rob

a very strong stance against Rob in the counter-claim incident,

@AH I am pretty sure the like a jailkeeper was pretty straightforward seeing as so far none of us had traditionaly named roles. (I think per said so as well and so did rob and now FA)

A mini with two jailkeeper that are both town Is balanced how ? This is TvS claims. SvS is far far tou riskty day 1. Like it would need pre-planning (that obv wouldn't be available) and FA reaction didn't seem pre planned.

P.edit
AH too risky for no reason. Just take the simplest option. Unlucky claim that exists. Can happen.

@FA

Relax. Getting angry won't help anything

and joining in with RC in the Rob-mocking, which seems to demonstrate a Rob-scum PoV.

Like, this was literally scum convo in pregame

rob: OMG WE'RE SO GOOD IN THE GAME IN SCUM CHAT PRO PLAYERS ALL AROUND
ah: YEA WE GONNA ROLL THIS SCRUB TOWN HARD DEFEND EACH OTHER CHAINSAW ALL GAME EZ WIN TOWN REAL DUMB WALK ALL OVER THEM

I am dying XD

(On top of this, Shiro was one of the few players that defended me in regards to my meta (the other being Ari, who never scumread Rob at all), but this is tangential)

In light of this, I'm not really a fan of Rob's posts today, particularly these following bits:

I need to look at Shiro more closely, though. That's a weird kill unless they did something that resembled a fake crumb. Possibly chosen just as a "won't blow back on anyone" kill? I really don't know without looking.

Based on that, I think this was a "make a kill that won't blow back on us" kill. I don't see any other reason to kill Shiro. I didn't see anything that could be reasonably interpreted as a PR crumb in Shiro's posts (which was another possible explanation for the weird kill).

This makes me feel like Rob!scum took out someone who was potentially scumreading him, but not to the extent where it looked bad to kill them (like killing me, for example), as well as someone who had shown defence of me so I'd be easier to lynch after failing to do so yesterday.

Him passing off the kill as a "oh it's a kill that won't blow back on scum" seems to be prepared to deflect people who read into the kill from scumreading him, as well as a "well i'm not scum because idk why shiro was killed right haha"

VOTE: Rob13

[Davsto]

but to AH, BRO, or Kittehs

Why to those three, when they have literally no experience of playing with me outside of this game, while completely ignoring Aristophanes who has already shown to have meta knowledge of me?

[Davsto]

Every bit of what you quoted is related to a bad counter-claim. If anything, the "Damn" shows that he was town-reading me and was surprised by the CC. As soon as the CC was demonstrated to be completely incorrect, any reasonable reading of Shiro's ISO would suggest that Shiro has no scum read on me.

Which is why she never moved her vote from you..?

[Davsto]

Who is town/scum?

Rob scum, Adaptive scumlean, Soren nullscum, Ploti townlean, Aeronaut town, rest varying degrees of null.

[Davsto]

Is there a reason why you didn't do any of your read through at night before selecting your night action?

Well, I also skimmed, to make sure Cheetory had't been confirmed town or anything. Who would you have checked?

Given the current game state, if I were an FBI Agent, I'd have checked you. Doesn't really matter who you checked; I'm just trying to gauge the why.

This is kinda avoiding the question; he asks "why Cheetory" as if it's suspicious that he chose him as it's an odd choice, and then when asked he gives a sort of non-answer.

[Davsto]

War Doctor

Crumb in my RVS post (no more!)

I'm an Enabler, so some (I don't know which) abilities of others will be lost when I die.

[Davsto]

Regardless, Enabler usually only allows people daytalk.

Hell are you on about? That's Encryptor, different role.

I've not been told specifically, but at least one player's role ability will stop working when I die; Cop, Doc, I don't know. Lynching me is an awful, anti-town thing to do, and this push on me seems awfully suspicious, because for scum me dying is the best option, but they don't want to waste a nightkill on someone they can get so easily mislynched due to tunneling town.

[Davsto]

War Doctor

Crumb in my RVS post (no more!)

I'm an Enabler, so some (I don't know which) abilities of others will be lost when I die.

What's your read of Rob overall throughout the game please?

I ask because your pushes on him have been isolated to the content of specific posts and making commentary on the scum motivation of each.
It reads as the kind of confbias you'd have when you know another player is scum (like in 3p lylo or after a claim which you know is false).

For example:

This is kinda avoiding the question; he asks "why Cheetory" as if it's suspicious that he chose him as it's an odd choice, and then when asked he gives a sort of non-answer.

Him passing off the kill as a "oh it's a kill that won't blow back on scum" seems to be prepared to deflect people who read into the kill from scumreading him, as well as a "well i'm not scum because idk why shiro was killed right haha"

Even now, when Frozen Angel has clarified what she has said, you're trying to avoid picking a side between Frozen Angel and Rob, and trying to move the focus.

(^This one is directed at me actually, but it's the same kind of thing)

Here's Frozen's (counter)claim. However, rather than assuming that since she has the role she knows it better than you do, you pick at her use of the word "like" to avoid having to pick a side.

Convenient unvote just after Persivul unvoted Rob. I think Rob was looking for an excuse to vote Persivul but didn't want it to be seen as OMGUS.

...and so on.

Also I just spotted this:

Frozen Angel moving the goalposts too, going from "you're not asking me questions" to "you're not asking me questions

I like

, when any town player would just answer those questions when they're presented to them on a silver platter.

So I guess you were scumreading Frozen right up until she claimed against Rob and then immediately decided her counterclaim was legit?
Why jump to that conclusion without any consideration if you were reading both as scum?

The way both Rob and Adaptive are acting as if it's not a counterclaim and really, really trying hard to avoid a confrontation from this by picking at what Frozen said rather than what we all know Frozen means is highly suspect.

Given it wasn't actually a counterclaim but Frozen did indeed flip town, what are your thoughts on Rob's claimed role now?

---
(Also I'll give a summary of my current townread on Rob in case Cheetory hasn't looked back yet, but am going to wait until after you answer this.)

-t

Read of Rob overall is scum.

I was reading Rob as scum, and had found one aspect of Frozen as a bit scummy - it's a bit of an exaggerated and misrepresenting jump to even act like I was scumreading them equally, and your wording of that in a pitiful attempt to make me look scummy adds to your growing list.

Thoughts on Rob's claimed role is that it may be true (although, as said, mod has a history of providing fakeclaims), but in a role madness game roles are rarely indicative of alignment because, you know, role madness and all.

[Davsto]

That claim is like 10/10 scum.

I mean are you going to say why, or are you just going to cheer on my lynch without even thinking?

[Davsto]

Who is town/scum?

Rob scum, Adaptive scumlean, Soren nullscum, Ploti townlean, Aeronaut town, rest varying degrees of null.

[Davsto]

Regardless, Enabler usually only allows people daytalk.

Hell are you on about? That's Encryptor, different role.

I've not been told specifically, but at least one player's role ability will stop working when I die; Cop, Doc, I don't know. Lynching me is an awful, anti-town thing to do, and this push on me seems awfully suspicious, because for scum me dying is the best option, but they don't want to waste a nightkill on someone they can get so easily mislynched due to tunneling town.

This may be the most scummy I've ever read

It's true though

[Davsto]

My scumread on Rob should be obvious
My scumread on Adaptive is also obvious
Words are hard
Fuck this shit none of you are going to listen to me after I die anyway so what's the fucking point

[Davsto]

Ahh okay, so you don't believe my claim?

Your problem, not mine.

Rob - I feel I've explained enough
Heap - crappy pushes, general misinterpretation in a manner which comes across as intentional
Soren mostly null but I've got an ehhhhhhhhhh feeling about many of their posts
Plottin Kittehs - just have a nice happy town feel about the whole slot
Aeronaut - I believe I've explained why Persivul slot is town enough
Rest null - i've had trouble really reading them, I haven't noticed their slot enough, etc etc standard null reasons here

Now, should we lynch Rob, or do something that will be regretted?

Like, it's kinda worrying that there are more than enough convincing cases on Rob and yet two people are voting him

PEdit Bro - starting the wagon on me isn't scummy (at least until the fact that I'm literally the only reason certain town roles are working is known), so of course I ain't gonna have a read on you for that, I have a read on people who do scummy shit like Adaptive Heap or Rob

[Davsto]

Ayy

Bye bye meta curse

By everyone, you played super well, particularly Plot and Mala because I know it probably wasn't the best time for you two!

I'm fine with the Dalek thread being released.

[Davsto]

But yeh, it wasn't hidden-mountainous - sure, many roles amounted to nothing, but in the dead thread I did list several roles that did do stuff.

[Davsto]

Just gonna post my Role PM for my wiki.

[Davsto]

Welcome!

You are:

Davros

,

Kaled Scientific Elite

Your Abilities:

Time Lord Experience

: You've been fighting the Time Lords, particularly the Doctor, over space and time for centuries. You know everything about them, their stratagems, their weapons, their numbers, even their thoughts and beliefs. You can emulate them perfectly, allowing you to use your voice and your vote as if you were one of them.

Eternal Creator

: You've kept yourself alive through scientific means for centuries. And you have an army of Daleks. Really, who's going to kill you? You are immune to night kills.

Death By Proxy

: You never act personally, you're too important and frail for that. Your agents and creations, the Daleks, carry out your will throughout the known universe. You can't be tracked, watched, or cop-investigated.

Finest Weapons of War

: You were born for war. As your body could not handle the rigors of physical warfare you turned your significant mental prowess to developing weapons to utterly annihilate your enemies. Your kill can't be blocked or protected against.

Bound by Blood

: Some of your technology has been stolen by your enemies and re-purposed for use against you and your Dalek horde. What they don't know, however, is that all of your creations are tied to your life force and that they will be rendered ineffective upon your death. While you live, you enable certain actions.

Factional Abilities

- You can perform the night kill and still use your regular ability.
- Your partner is

Plottin Kittehs

.
- You and

Plottin Kittehs

have a factional Private Thread here. You can use the private thread during the day as well as at night.
- You know that the War Doctor is not in the game
- You can request a fake town role PM and we will craft one for you.

Your Win Condition:

You win when the

Daleks

purge the Universe of all non-Dalek life or nothing can prevent that from happening.

Confirmaton:

Reply to this PM with your role name and alignment. Once ten players have confirmed, the game will begin!

[Davsto]

Yeah, as noted in the scum PT, some of the town flubbed a bit early by softclaiming or crumbing their Doctor number - and ruling them out as being 8 made it easier to narrow down.

In fact, on the night when Rob was killed, the actual intended kill target was Adaptive Heap but the mod missed the command. At that point, I believe that the 8th Doc had been narrowed down to 2 suspects.

[Davsto]

I must admit Ari, I did smile to myself when you decided to look through my ISO for false associatives in the hope that they would lead to help extra reads, since I'd purposefully played against that to trap people who attempted it (e.g., I suddenly started townreading Plotteh towards my death, something I'd usually do to town if I wanted to make them look like my scumpartner).

[Davsto]

To give an idea on how well they played, I don't think a single vote was on PlotKit throughout the entire game. Seriously.

PEdit Large Normal 189 - Flower Viewing Festival

[Davsto]

And I'm fairly sure that's the only game we've played together (besides this).

[Davsto]

What? I was talking to Aeronaut