Shaman Mafia [Endgame]

[Egg]

Vote hi Im yakko

for multiple random votes.

Volunteer North-Earth

[Egg]

On the other hand, my vote on Egg isn't random and I encourage people to join me.

~LLD

Lol

[Egg]

If anyone is wondering if they should be in the ritual, they probably shouldn't. Check your Role PM. It should be incredibly obvious.

As for Espeon vs Hito, I have a few thoughts but putting them here isn't productive because I don't think either is scum and I agree with Espeon that some reactions would be cool and my thoughts could interfere with that. They aren't that important, but if anyone wants them, ask later and I'll share on the off chance I remember.

I agree with ushiro-chans sentiment that it is very conspicuous as scum to do such a move. If espie was scum. Hitogoroshi sounds genuine especially with his speculation about the setup early game. He was thinking about it; now all potentially wasted time.

I was also thinking if it was even possible for espeonage to even confirm multiple volunteers. My personal preference would have been to ignore the ritual and focus on good ole mafiers. My headaches and I'm hungry :/.

UNVOTE: I'm no longer in rvs.

No longer in RVS? Who are you scumreading then?

I agree with ushiro-chans sentiment that it is very conspicuous as scum to do such a move. If espie was scum. Hitogoroshi sounds genuine especially with his speculation about the setup early game. He was thinking about it; now all potentially wasted time.

I was also thinking if it was even possible for espeonage to even confirm multiple volunteers. My personal preference would have been to ignore the ritual and focus on good ole mafiers. My headaches and I'm hungry :/.

UNVOTE: I'm no longer in rvs.

NO SERIOUSLY THIS IS A SCUM POST

CAN WE VOTE THIS PLEASE?

I don't plan on unvoting yakko.

Yakko if you're no longer in RVS who are you scum reading?

Dammit. Beat me to my question.

Staeg, what do you think of GreyIce implying scum have daytalk?

Kat, is this gonna be another game where you do nothing until like Day 3 and when you start obvtowning no one sees it because you were useless the first two days?

Copper, do you have a read on Staeg and/or the hydra?

[Egg]

What do you think about me responding as if he hadn't stated anything extraordinary

Well, you pointed it out but I couldn't really tell if you had an opinion on it. Do you think he slipped knowledge of daytalk? Do you think he was trying to get a reaction out of you? Do you think it was meaningless? I'm trying to figure out if you're slinging mud or if you actually saw something and you aren't really being cooperative. Can you guess which way I'm leaning?

Do you have a read on AP?

Nope, not yet.

leaning town after reading since this post by you. Maybe biased though because I agree with him on a lot of stuff. I also know he's a good player and hard to read so don't consider that a strong town read. So yeah, my AP read is weak town.

Still like my Yakko vote.

I agree with AP about copper, actually. It seems like he's staying off Yakko because he doesn't want to be seen as a scummy wagoner. Some people do that as town too, but it's pretty self conscious like AP said. However, going against AP is never easy so it's not like he's truly taking the easy way out or anything. I have a feeling he's gonna be my back and forth read this game...

nope, I dodged that perfectly, because about 1/2 of the people who have posted so far seem to have their pants equipped on the wrong end about just as much as yakko and I apparently can't tell the difference between town and scum doing that

Dodging an opinion on the lead wagon is shitty even if you admit that's what you are doing.

seeking attention

You've said this about two players now (hydra and AP) and I find it hard to believe you think that's scummy even if that's what they were doing. What scum wants to intentionally draw attention just for the sake of it?

Yes. Which is why I told Hito that I'd probably vote him in if he nominated himself, referring to the mission.

Yeah, Hito should take Father Sky. And for Day 2, we should probably come to some consensus on our strongest town reads first.

Can't remember if this was asked yet. What happens if we lynch someone in the ritual? Ritual can't happen then, right?

If he's defending me I'll suck his dick all he wants and play igor to his dr. frankenstein.

If this isn't someone whose only goal is survival, I don't even know...

Hey Egg, nothing in my role PM indicates I know anything about the ritual. Do I nominate myself for Father Sky

I typed a paragraph and realized I don't want scum knowing any of what I said, so short answer: I don't think there's any harm in it.

[Egg]

Staeg, I already answered that. I wanted to see if you were thinking critically or not because you mentioned it, but lightheartedly. Asking someone else doesn't accomplish that.

This is not good. Not after you stated that "it should be incredibly obvious". What lead you to post that first thought about the ritual? You seemed sure that every other townie would be able to tell at a glance.

You're misrepping my "obvious" thing. It's obvious to people with specific things in their Role PM, not everyone. That's why I said people should look at PMs. Also, as my response to Hito should show already, I don't want to discuss this in detail.

AP, Yakko could also be scum who doesn't realize how obvious he is about being survivalistic. I could be wrong, but he doesn't strike me as someone who is experienced at mafia.

My initial suspicion on Yakko was the unvote followed by stating that hes out of RVS. Typically people only say they are out of RVS when they have a clear person to vote in mind or at least a slew of townreads. So him explicitly stating that and then not having anything of substance to go with it felt off. He did say he thought Hito was town in a roundabout way. Hito is probably the safest townread for someone to have, especially at that point though.

/agree except that the Hito town read doesn't bother me.

I've been in 2 games with GI-scum who replaced out on like D2 or something but bussed enough to generate a lot of towncred

Can you remind me if that happened it Joss Whedon? Because it sounds vaguely familiar now that you mention it.

[Egg]

@Egg: I'll look that up in a bit, but I thought he bussed AA9 really hard. He definitely got replaced on D2/3 by F-16 who went on to win the game.

If I'm remembering right though, that bussing may have been more personal than game related...

[Egg]

,

VOTE: egg for the sheep

What sheep?

Spiff, why is Staeg town? Why is Espeon an easy and boring scum read? Why is Nacho scum?

Nacho, something you said to Spiff makes me think we might be on the same page. However, the fact that you are able to tell which role to take surprises me a bit. I'm more about uniting everyone, to paraphrase, and none of the roles seem to fit that.

 Katsuki+Camn are going to hydra

Oh God. If Camn knew my main and is scum, I'd be NK'd for sure just for tradition's sake. Although it's been forever since we played together. But I think I just basically told her who I am so... *shrug*. Also, Kat, that's why you don't remember playing with me. I've always been on a different account when I played with you. But yeah, as far as I can tell, you're always pretty useless in the early game. Lurking and/or fluff except a burst of activity or two, but much better later on.

AP WHY ARE YOU VOTING SPIFFEH

LOOK AT ALL THE HARMONY YOU HAVE BROKEN BY NOT ANSWERING MY QUESTION

SEE IT? SEE ALL THE HARMONY YOU HAVE BROKEN?

You and I should take a journey. You choose. Upper world, middle world, or lower road. Yakko doesn't believe in journeys. Yakko needs to hang today. Do you accept or shall I remain still?

Confirm Nacho Air 2/2

[Egg]

 Katsuki+Camn are going to hydra

Oh God. If Camn knew my main and is scum, I'd be NK'd for sure just for tradition's sake. Although it's been forever since we played together. But I think I just basically told her who I am so... *shrug*. Also, Kat, that's why you don't remember playing with me. I've always been on a different account when I played with you. But yeah, as far as I can tell, you're always pretty useless in the early game. Lurking and/or fluff except a burst of activity or two, but much better later on.

Now I'm curious. For some reason, my gut says either VP Baltar or Fonzy. That's my guess before camn weighs in, can't think of anyone else she'd NK who I've played with before.

I'll just say she and I have a history of NKing each other.

Copper, when do you think a lynch should occur?

which just looks like an attempt to appear productive (as well as the post he is referring to was filled with general void of meaning, which I STILL think is a sign of suboptimal thought processes (I can't really tell why any alignment would have made that post))

Really? You don't see a single issue with Yakko doing that? Even if you don't agree, you don't get why someone else would?

About Egg: the first post was nothing with a ribbon around it. The reference to role PMs is bad, because it does nothing to provide new information: either the people who have access to the obvious information already know it or they're not going to find it anyway (no matter if it's everyone or just some that have the information, apologies for the misinterpretation). That part comes across "woo look guys I know what a town role PM looks like".

Basically, the ritual mechanic is so non-normal that I can see people being confused even if they don't have what I think is obvious info. Hell, I've got it and I'm still confused. My theory is still just a theory but I think it's the obvious answer if you have a PM similar to mine. And as for the last part about a town PM, no. I bet some scum have what I have and I bet some town don't. I don't think it's an alignment thing and I don't think we want the scum who have it to be a part of the ritual. If you don't know what I mean by this point, please don't continue this discussion.

Then there's a (repeat) question to Yakko, see my response earlier in this post re: Spiffeh vote. Except this is way worse, because Spiffeh had asked that exact same question already. Which he ackownledges in his post. What?

This is much more simple than you think. I saw Yakko's post. I typed out the question. I saw that Spiff already asked. And I hate trying to remove things from my posts because I'm a phone poster and that's a pain in the ass.

Then, more recently, there's dancing around information about the ritual... which he has stated that he doesn't want to discuss.The banter about Camn replacing in also sounded fake af, but that's just the cherry.

The ritual might be important, believe it or not. And the Camn stuff is just me being excited to play with someone I haven't played with in so long. I guarantee you it's not fake and I'd say the same stuff as scum and it wouldn't be fake then either.

[Egg]

It's not alignment-indicative is my point. Why would you, as scum, unvote and say "I'm out of RVS now whoop"? (I don't know why town would, either, but that's sort of my point)

Could think the RVS vote looks bad either because serious posts have been made or because he was voted for making multiple RVS votes. Could be trying to be the "good townie" by moving forward. Could be looking for an excuse to unvote. There are a lot of reasons and very few are town. But my biggest issue with it is that he didn't try to advance the game by voting someone, which would have also been the indicator that he was truly out of RVS. I think he was going for the apearance of being out of RVS rather than actually being there which is scummy regardless of why he wanted that appearance.

More of a pain than quoting another post and commenting on it...

Yes, actually. Hitting "quote" is one click. Copying and pasting is two more. Removing it would mean backspacing every letter of it (I guess technically I could cut, but usually when I do that I select all because it's hard to get exactly what you want highlighted on an old phone). Am I scum for the way I use a smart phone? What is the point of this line of questioning?

It was the "oh, but then again telling them this might have revealed who I am... aw shucks..."

*shrug*. I like to keep alts hidden but if I play with certain people, I want them to know who I am because it's more enjoyable that way. It does kind of suck to have to give it away, but whatever.

[Egg]

Copper, to be fair I don't see the difference between information gathering and getting information.

[Egg]

Espy was easy and boring because I was mostly sheeping the general consensus at that point which is easy and boring to me.

Espeon scum was general consensus?

Has anyone played with spiffeh before?

Yeah he was obvtown for tunneling on scum. He came off like one of those players who is kind of new, but not so new they don't know what they are doing. You know the ones who put in a lot of effort and are probably playing the best they will for the most part, but once in a while they say something and you're like "wow, ok, you'll learn". Here, he just seems bored and willing to go with the flow. It's definitely different and I'm not sure what to make of it with a meta sample size of one game.

 Brian knows I hate his catch-up style as well

Me too. I see more posts, feel like I'm behind, get overwhelmed, and put off reading until later where if it's consolidated in one post, I'll read it, pick out what is important, and respond accordingly.

Nacho is definitely roleplaying aggressively which is something I think he likely decided to do before seeing his alignment.

You've met Nacho IRL, right? How confident are you that he decided to do this pregame? Because it affects the way I read him. Is this theme an actual thing? Because I thought it was just a Fate thing. What do you think about him volunteering for the Air role and saying he belongs there?

Camn, welcome back. I'll believe it postgame as far as your grudgekill list.

I am rather intolerant of lurking, as people know

^definitely true, but not alignment indicitive. Camn-scum would either still feel this way or claim to for meta's sake.

why would he need an excuse to unvote?

Maybe he was voting his buddy or didn't like the way he'd appear on the wagon.

I already told you. It looks like "look at me doing things!" while not actually doing things. I've phoneposted with multiquotes and repeated deletion of previous quotes - it's not that difficult (the drag and cut tool, indeed).

Chances are I'm lazier with a smartphone than most people who use one. I won't even use the "forward" function after going back. I suck at technology. I don't have internet or cable not just because it's expensive but because I don't want to deal with it. That shit breaks all the time and I wouldn't know the first thing about fixing it. And I wouldn't use it for anything except mafia, facebook, and news/sports so it's a waste of time and money. But based on your post though, I guess you assume I'm lying about that?

[Egg]

Mod, can you remove that first Staeg quote please?

I don't know why, but sometimes quotes get added to my posts when I don't put them there...

[Egg]

At last, camn and I are one, as the snow fox prances onto the moon, becoming a singular being, a singular spirit.

kmdegg what is your read on us?

Hard to say. Camn has one post and you are a little more involved than I remember you being, but not so much that you could be considered a key contibutor. Whoever said you probably wouldn't want to share glory as scum or consider yourself "dragged in" after getting a scum PM has probably made the best points about you, so weak town for now would be my read.

Yakko/Bellaphant, any thoughts?

Spiff, why is Bellaphant's post about your meta any worse than mine that you didn't comment on?

[Egg]

At last, camn and I are one, as the snow fox prances onto the moon, becoming a singular being, a singular spirit.

kmdegg what is your read on us?

Hard to say. Camn has one post and you are a little more involved than I remember you being, but not so much that you could be considered a key contibutor. Whoever said you probably wouldn't want to share glory as scum or consider yourself "dragged in" after getting a scum PM has probably made the best points about you, so weak town for now would be my read.

I can assure you camn has made much more than just one post. Not that it particularly matters as we are now one and the same.

Yeah. Not at the time that I typed that though or at least I don't think so. Still not enough to change my read.

[Egg]

CAN WE NOT LET SHINY THINGS DISTRACT US FROM YAKKO?????

~camn

^this

[Egg]

Copper, not sure. I'd like to see the scum flip before I get into associatives.

Nacho, it's a reply to what was effectively a too scummy to be scum arguement. AP said Yakko's survivalistic play was too "blatant".

[Egg]

Or are you looking for I-told-you-so points tomorrow? Because there's a faction that's real good at predicting mislynches

and what you doin ain't making me want to unvote Yakko. 

^made it two quotes to show separation, but this was one sentence. How can you believe both of these things. If Yakko is scum, Nacho can't be scum predicting a Yakko mislynch for I told you so points. Just sayin'

Nacho, fair enough but I think Yakko is scum and want him lynched, so simply shrugging AP off with "lol that's fallacy dude" probably wasn't the best I could have done. I'd rather answer questions and sell my case. I'm trying not to be as lazy as I've been lately.

AP, survivalistic is typically a scum trait and is part of the case on Yakko. You called it too blatant. Sounds like too scummy to be scum to me. Do you no longer feel he's being blatantly survivalistic or do you think he is survivalistic town? You call the whole situation uninteresting. Does that mean you find it to be null? Is the overwhelming support for his lynch muddying your read?

Vote: Brian Skies

What the fuck?

Camn, why is AP scum?

[Egg]

AP, have you tried reading Yakko based on his posts or just Staeg's? This may be hard to believe, but I could see him being scum without Staeg.

I just noticed what the sample VT pm looks like in the OP, lmao.

Serious question: why were you looking at it?

Camn like stop roleplaying as Titus. She's terrible.

Call me old fashioned, but that sounded more DGB than Titus.

Spiff, I was leaning towards remaining still, however if I decide to visit the upper world, should I be looking for you when I get there?

[Egg]

Well I'd like to know. Wouldn't want to get stood up when I could be doing something else with my time bb

[Egg]

Eggy I'll go up. You should too.

Also I really want to know what you're main is.

It's a date.

[Egg]

I actually thought that was a camn post

[Egg]

Espeon, if you prefer Yakko, why vote Nacho?

[Egg]

I feel left out because I haven't seen that movie

[Egg]

Copper,
Solution:
-Vig lurkers who you think are scum
-Investigate good players who you are having trouble reading.

[Egg]

I'm probably gonna be bored until Yakko is lynched.

[Egg]

Explained it to Camn earlier. No longer fully feeling it. On phone, so not going to find post.

We shall see. I wish a little more out of my day 1 than this, and oddly I find myself agreeing with Copper.

And it's pretty odd Bellaphant is still active on site (having posted yesterday and the day before) yet hasn't posted here since the 11th

. Not like super active, but this isn't a site flake.

Yeah, this worries me about Bellaphant. Not even a prod dodge or promise to catch up... Unless you count Tuesday's "will read tomorrow" that never happened.

[Egg]

Still helps to actually address concerns though. I mean, it seemed like you were avoiding the Yakko wagon so Staeg isn't wrong to point that out.

But still.

Staeg, Copper is voting Yakko now so isn't this a dead issue without a Yakko flip?

I could see this looking like Copper being Yakko's scumbuddy who feels obligated to bus (I don't think that's actually the case) but outside of that, if there's a point to this I'm missing it.

[Egg]

VOTE: espeonage

Skimming your ISO, I can't find the reason for this vote.

[Egg]

Still helps to actually address concerns though. I mean, it seemed like you were avoiding the Yakko wagon so Staeg isn't wrong to point that out.

But still.

Staeg, Copper is voting Yakko now so isn't this a dead issue without a Yakko flip?

I could see this looking like Copper being Yakko's scumbuddy who feels obligated to bus (I don't think that's actually the case) but outside of that, if there's a point to this I'm missing it.

The fact that I'm town? What are your reads by the way?

Town on top, scum on bottom
Egg
Hito
Camnkat
Espeon
GreyIceLLD
Nacho
Spiff
Copper
Ap
Brian
Bellaphant
Staeg
Yakko

[Egg]

That move where he confirmed everyone. Even if it wasn't optimal and he should have backed it up by talking more, the intent behind it screams town. It was a discussion that would have bored most of the town and allowed scum to hide and he pretty much stopped that. I've seen games where the first 10-20 pages are about the setup and not scumhunting (see any PYP game) and it's hard to get into a game where you have like two reads. And if he's scum, he took a risk that I doubt he'd take with his first post because everyone coming into the game (or at least in theory) should be asking themselves immediately "did Espeon just do this as town or scum" and he pretty much risked being the Yakko of this game, meaning the guy that a lot of people think is scum and even those who don't will probably pile on near deadline for the sake of having a lynch. Basically, the intent screams town. I would love to see him more involved though.

[Egg]

AP, Espeon should respond to that before I do. I don't necessarily disagre though

Copper, not everything that scum does is scummy.

[Egg]

Prod dodge. Still waiting for Espeon to respond to AP.

[Egg]

The numbers are there. People are just backing out because the wagon is getting stale.

[Egg]

Spiff makes a lot of sense this page.

[Egg]

This is a general reminder that Staeg is town.

I'm hoping that last post he just made didn't trigger this because if so, wtf?

[Egg]

Weird.

[Egg]

my opinion of the ritual was that there would be a benefit to whatever team gets the most of their alignment on it, and maybe nothing more. Maybe its partially flavor related, but eh. It would have been nice to have time to TOWN HUNT and then vote people into slots based on who is being town read. I don't really see how this mechanic, which is demonstrably fragile, would cause us to get thrown for pages of debate. I actually do recall X-men mafia though, where Scum-Toogeloo intentionally borked the mechanic for this reason, although that was in full swing of pages of debate about it that were never ending.

D'aww... it's nice to be remembered.

I'm town-reading Spiffeh early.

If anyone is wondering if they should be in the ritual, they probably shouldn't. Check your Role PM. It should be incredibly obvious.

I don't have any of those Ritual Roles mentioned in the PM I received, just something about Lower, Middle, Upper areas, but they don't seem like they tie into this mechanic. I'm assuming it wouldn't necessarily be so cut and dry as "you join the ritual if your role PM tells you to."

Hmm.

[Egg]

Toog, I think you misread. I didn't say people who should be volunteering would have specific elements in their Role PMs. I just thought that it would be obvious if you should be there or not. I'm second guessing myself a bit now, but it wasn't as straightforward as Nacho for example made it sound when he said he is specifically Air. I had to guess which one made sense for me, but thought I definitely should be part of the ritual.

Spiff, what made you decide Copper is town.

KatCamn, why is Copper such obvscum?

Brian, I actually forgot you naked voted Espeon. =( Did you ever explain that later on?

[Egg]

Toog, I never claimed to be original. By the way, is it weird that I'm kind of glad you're scumreading me? I feel like it might help me get more involved with this game. I've gotten bored waiting for the Yakko lynch to happen. Could you maybe ISO me and see what triggered that gut read? I think I'd like a back and forth on this.

Katcamn, *shrug*. I see what you're saying. It seemed like you more than implied a strong scum read, but I guess that makes sense. Still though, what makes you feel that way about Copper? If it's the kind of stuff you are currently discussing with him, I'm not so sure that's got anything to do with his alignment. It seems more like you think his playstyle is suboptimal.

[Egg]

What's a hawk do?

More imprtantly, what does the fox say?

[Egg]

Brian, I actually forgot you naked voted Espeon. =( Did you ever explain that later on?

Yes

Quote please

The issue is that it is suboptimal from a town point of view. Now, there are two possibilities. Either it is because he is scum, and hence he has a scum agenda that does not coincide with our town agenda, or he is town who mistakenly thinks he is suppose to play for scum, a la DESPBROS. We hate situations like these as it is a huge headache differentiating town from scum sometimes, but what can you do?

Iunno. The whole "but what if we lynch town" cautiousness is usually carried into both town and scum games by the people who do it. I mean, I see where you are coming from because misguided town or scum trying to look town because they are misguided could do that, but like I said I don't think that specific part of his play is telling. Best thing to do is probably to just ignore it unless you think you can convince him he's misguided.

[Egg]

Ok

[Egg]

Oh yeah those are pretty much prod dodges. But I'm sure you'll find I'm not exclusively prod dodging. I've given my thoughts. Just long deadlines suck and people thinking we need the full time until deadline sucks more. We probably could have lynched about 15 pages ago.

[Egg]

If that information is likely to be there, yes, are you trolling me?

Uhhh. Very few people are going to do that work just to prove themselves wrong. I sure as hell wouldn't. I'd ask you to prove it yourself. Basically, I back Toog on this.

. Without a compelling reason, my first instinct is that they're leaving the wagon because they know Yakko's alignment already and want to avoid potential fallout.

What fallout? The driving forces behind a lynch usually get called town regardless of the flip although I guess site meta is starting to shift away from that just a little bit. Still, I don't think it's to the point where scum go "oh shit, I might get the lynch I want. Better unvote". I mean if Yakko is lynched and flips town without Grey/LLD on the wagon, do you really think people will forget that they pushed the lynch early on or the way they did it? Even if there is fallout, the unvote won't erase it.

[Egg]

Copper, sure, it's useful to do all that but all I'm saying is very few people, myself included, don't have the time for it. I play mafia for fun, not to devote my entire life to each game I'm in. It's unrealistic to expect that everyone is going to read through other games that they aren't in. Keeping up with this one is hard enough.

TTH, lack of what you personally expect from town isn't the same as good reasoning why someone is scum. Why do you think they'd do that as scum?

Brian, see my response to Copper in this post. I don't have time for BS reaction tests.

Ushiro, where in Yakko's posts do you see scumhunting?

[Egg]

Brian, see my response to Copper in this post. I don't have time for BS reaction tests.

I'm not reaction testing you. My reasoning isn't so hard to find that I have to help you pretend to look busy.

I'm not gonna dig through your 50+ posts, so I'll just assume it's not there.

Your initial position however was also that I was BSing about how I play to call him scummy

This is where we disagree then. If I'd made that point, it would be a shit point. My position was that not everyone has the time/willingness to do as much as you say you do and if toog says he doesn't have that time/willingness, that doesn't make him scum. I'm not saying that you are scum for this stance, just wrong. Don't assume that everyone plays how you do. So let's go back to:

@EggToog. was making a specific point claiming to have checked Bella's posts before making it, that's different from me expecting him to know everything about every game that was played on-site, but sure it could be play-style as well if his point about ignoring out-of-game info. pans out. [/quotep

You guys misunderstood each other. You said that Bella asked you to play this game, as in to sign up before it started. Toog can correct me if I'm wrong but he probably thought you meant she said something in thread that you were talking about, so he checked her whole 3 posts of an ISO, found nothing to suggest that, and somehow took it to mean you made the whole thing up. He should have asked you to clarify rather than assuming. However, I don't think his actions are scum motivated any more than yours are. You guys just have different styles and are clashing because of it. It's a pointless distraction.

Why wouldn't that give me an accurate read? >:SI think if I were that completely sold on a case, something spectacular would have to happen to cause me to have such a crisis in faith. If I can't replicate what they're thinking for myself, something is up.

Because you aren't looking for scum motivation. When you only look for lack of town motivation, things that are null tells will look like scum tells. Basically, saying why something isn't a town tell is one thing. Saying why it's a scum tell is another. Unless you can show me scum motivation, you won't convince me.

[Egg]

I don't have any reason to believe there is no hawk. As far as his alignment, I don't think proving he is a hawk would change anything.

Personally, I sexually identify as an attack helicopter

Probably the best post in this thread so far.

<- I typed this before reading Toog's post.

[Egg]

Oh God

[Egg]

Yakko's V/LA lasts until February 1st, Deadline is next Monday. Are we stalled because we are waiting on Yakko, or are we just at some kind of impasse where we need copper, TTH, and Yakko to be on one of either TTH or Yakko (Yakko being the more than likely one to be lynched since TTH isn't likely to vote herself)?

A Yakko claim would be ideal, but I wouldn't be surprised if we never get it.

[Egg]

I think I'm gonna stay off this ritual. I don't know this theme at all, but I think I misunderstood some stuff and just realized I may be part of why it didn't work.

I'll check back in the morning before I decide where to vote.

[Egg]

Can someone voting Staeg remind me what the associatives with Yakko were? I suspected him for his play, but remember people mentioning associatives for some reason.

Also, a quick glance at the end of day vote count suggests TTH was the last attempt at a counterwagon, so scum being in AP/Staeg/toog is probably more likely than TTH being scum.

[Egg]

It's not the only piece of information, but it's still important

[Egg]

Nah, he was obviously joking there. I mean I'll probably end up voting him but not for that exchange.

[Egg]

Ok, ritual stuff:
-I'm exposing this because it's clear I was wrong. I thought we wanted power roles to be on the ritual and I thought the ability to journey made me a power role.Now I see that damn near everyone can journey. So when I said "it should be obvious", that was what I meant.
-My new theory is that we have shamans and animals as our roles and the shamans should be on the ritual and animals should stay off

Do you guys think I'm close?

[Egg]

AP, look at Nacho's flip though. Fate's flavor says we are picking shamans for the roles. Nacho not only was a shaman but seemed to know he belonged in the Air role. Is it really that crazy to think that everyone on the ritual needs to be a shaman?

I don't care what you did yesterday. I've played with GI-scum twice and both time hes bussed the shit out of his partner on D1

This is actually a good point...

[Egg]

AP, look at Nacho's flip though. Fate's flavor says we are picking shamans for the roles. Nacho not only was a shaman but seemed to know he belonged in the Air role. Is it really that crazy to think that everyone on the ritual needs to be a shaman?

I don't care what you did yesterday. I've played with GI-scum twice and both time hes bussed the shit out of his partner on D1

This is actually a good point...

Ok but if we were bussing out partner, why did we attempt to stop the wagon? Wouldn't that just ruin most of the town cred you would get from bussing?

Maybe GreyIce wanted to bus to a lynch and LLD saw opportunity to go elsewhere?

Vote Staeg

[Egg]

AP, look at Nacho's flip though. Fate's flavor says we are picking shamans for the roles. Nacho not only was a shaman but seemed to know he belonged in the Air role. Is it really that crazy to think that everyone on the ritual needs to be a shaman?

I don't care what you did yesterday. I've played with GI-scum twice and both time hes bussed the shit out of his partner on D1

This is actually a good point...

Ok but if we were bussing out partner, why did we attempt to stop the wagon? Wouldn't that just ruin most of the town cred you would get from bussing?

Maybe GreyIce wanted to bus to a lynch and LLD saw opportunity to go elsewhere?

Vote Staeg

Why would we show hydra dissonance? At the time of that lynch, we were living in the same house, talking through our votes and stuff IN PERSON.

Now that I'm back in newfoundland, he's been busy at work and depressed, so I'm taking up the helm for a while alone, until his work dies down, but literally we had no dissonance. The reason we unvoted Yakko was because we were uncertain if he was too bad to be scum, and we were being led astray, so we backed off to see other reactions, and when we were convinced still he was scum, I put him back at L-1 to confirm the lynch.

That makes sense, but I don't think it's impossible that you disagreed on whether or not to let a buddy be lynched. I'm not even scumreading you, but Greyice's history of bussing is worth keeping in mind.

[Egg]

So many posts. Might not get to it tonight.

[Egg]

 As far as Egg was concerned, I thought he was talking about heritage.

What do you mean by this?

I met a bird. It told me it would help me so long as I either volunteer for Air roles or revisit the same dream path (which means I don't have to be in the ritual, but it will probably be better if I was)

people I want out of the ritual are listed in post 23 (including myself if needed).

Why are you willing to be out of the ritual if this bird wants you in it and you think it's better if you are?

Why would you self vote please stop

^this.

Rude

To be fair, you were much more of a presence as town in Prozac's game.

Hito, if you think it's Staeg/AP, why do you want AP lynched first?

I think this frustrated AP is a town AP.

Nacho's take on Spiff has me thinking Spiff might be scum.

[Egg]

If I was getting help based on being in the ritual, I'd absolutely insist that I be in it. You're in it anyway though, so meh.

[Egg]

Confirm Brian

[Egg]

V/LA until about Sunday

.

The pace of the game will determine whether I can post in that time or not. If so, it will be while I'm dead tired between 16 hour shifts at work. Any more than about a page and I won't have any motivation or desire to do it.

[Egg]

Checking in as promised. Missed nothing.

[Egg]

Prod dodge

[Egg]

Will catch up tonight

[Egg]

Can we please but Egg and Toog on this ritual somewhere? Preferably in place of UA and/or spiffeh?

Can you explain why I'm wrong in thinking you have to actually be a shaman to be on the ritual?

Reading the AP/Ushiro/Brian exchange is painful because there is so much disagreement but no one looks scummy. If you three are all town, get on the same page.

Spiff, who is Staeg's buddy?

TTH, can you tell me why you think scum are sitting on your wagon specifically over Staeg or Yakko? For example, why are Toog and Brian scummier for tunneling you than say Spiff and myself tunneling Staeg? And why is Ushiro's 1v1 talk worse than that tunneling?
^Fuck, Brian beat me to this. I still don't see a satisfying answer from TTH though so I don't mind restating it. Will get rid of it if one pops up.

Toog, do you think Staeg and TTH are scum together? You said they both need rope, but if one flips scum, are you saying you'll vote the other out of the gate tomorrow?

If there is scum in Brian vs Copper, it's probably Copper. Both town is more likely though.

[Egg]

Copper, it's the way Brian thinks his town flip will confirm you as scum. He's dead wrong, but he clearly feels he has something to prove and that he can prove it by dying. I don't think he's faking that.

[Egg]

Can you explain why I'm wrong in thinking you have to actually be a shaman to be on the ritual?

Oh. I didn't realize that you claimed not-shaman. I guess I misunderstood your confusion about the mechanic and your role PM.

*shrug*. I started out trying to be subtle about it, but I suck at that.

[Egg]

Someone should talk to me. I'm having a hard time getting involved here...

[Egg]

Someone should talk to me. I'm having a hard time getting involved here...

Are you scum?

Nope. Are you?

Because, and I'll be perfectly honest, I'd say that question comes from scum at least 50% of the time.

They're the ones who want town's guidance on which way to jump.

Like, the weird thing is I am kind of town reading you, but that question was like super ultra not good.

*shrug*. I actually disagree. I tend to be more confident as scum. I don't know if I'm talking to LLD or Greyice here, but if it's Greyice, remember Joss Whedon mafia? This feels like a 2.0 of that game. Maybe because we have a few of those players back? But it was hard for me to get reads in that game, specifically scum reads, or at least on active players. It's the same thing here. All of the discussion is my town reads talking about things that either I agree with or I'm not interested in. And when I say something, I get no answer or an answer that isn't going to start a conversation. If I was scum, I could break out of it by pushing an active player as scum or something. There's plenty from Copper and Brian for example, or even you and AP, that I could jump on but I don't honestly believe any of it is all that scummy. Or at least what is scummy is outweighed by what is town. I feel like scum are in the less active players, but then again I mentionedJoss Whedon where I was townreading Nacho for his "ghost writing" post and he turned out to be scum. That's why I want to talk to people in case I'm dead wrong somewhere. My timing kind of sucks though. I'm going V/LA in a few hours...

[Egg]

V/LA until Friday

[Egg]

I had better things to do. Tonight is going to be so much fun.

By the way, stay the fuck off the ritual if your role name doesn't specifically say shaman. I want one successful ritual. If you fucked up yesterday, own up or I'm assuming scum on the ritual is why it failed.

Vote TTH

Preview edit: uhhh. I wasn't there.

[Egg]

I wasn't in the middle world. I didn't journey last night

[Egg]

What the fuck?

[Egg]

I wasn't in the middle world. I didn't journey last night

By choice?

Yes. I did something else instead and I think it was a good choice. I'm gonna have a fun night tonight.

[Egg]

Someone named Egg spoke at the very end of the night in the Middle World QT

Sooooooooooo who was that?

^I think I can believe this by the way. In the upper world N1, someone posted and we have no idea who it was so there's clearly weird shit going on.

[Egg]

Confirming I didn't see anything in upper world N1 about camn/kat being lynched. Wtf?

Spiff how did you not snap vote me when you thought that was me?

[Egg]

It kind of would be if it was actually coming from me. Or at the very least, worth some pressure. Seriously who sits back on night chat hoping to catch info like that? And who is "we"? They were clearly trying to look scummy and their only mistake was being so obvious.

[Egg]

Spiff, are you getting on this next ritual or no?

[Egg]

Hmm. The only thing that actually tells me is that the scum team wouldn't be Hito/TTH because they are the only living players other than myself who weren't on it.

Confirm Spiff

I'm confident you aren't making up all that weird QT shit and there'd be no reason to pull all of those shenanigans if you were scum who was killing toog anyway.

I'm trying to decide if I want to confirm Brian and/or Copper or not.

[Egg]

Confirm Brian

Still thinking on Copper.

[Egg]

I'm actually kind of warming up to that. Him or Copper maybe? I still like TTH for scum more though.

[Egg]

Spiff did the fake me actually say "hear" instead of "here" or did you do that in your paraphrasing?

Preview edit: Why Hito?

[Egg]

If anyone knows why this happened, please speak up:

Also, I tried to go to the Lower World and was unable to make it.

[Egg]

Copper, I'm going with "scum did it" until someone tells me otherwise. That makes Brian town for now.

Spiff, too bad. I wanted to guess at who might or might not make that mistake.

[Egg]

You must really think I suck at this game

[Egg]

Why don't I remember Ushiro being journey blocked? Not saying it didn't happen, just weird I don't remember.

What benefit do you think town has to journey block? Why do you think they haven't come forward?

[Egg]

Actually, scratch those questions. Could be a regular RB that could stop a scum kill or something they didn't realize they were doing.

[Egg]

@Egg
Kind of the opposite, that is such a bad read I have a hard time seeing you make it as town.

Brian could be lying about being blocked either taking advantage of what Ushiro said yesterday or in concert with them, he could have been blocked by a townie scum-reading him, he could have been blocked by a third party, yet you decide him stating it makes him town enough to confirm him into the ritual (if he is scum 1 town vote is all he needs to sabotage this ritual as well) before the rest of the players have even had a chance to chime in, how come?

Fair. Although I think I confirmed him before I thought about the journey block thing. I'm townreading him anyway.

That is especially weird if you consider the theory you and Spiffeh are floating about that scum can post as other players in the QT's, you should be extra suspicious of those who claimed not to have journeyed.

Hadn't thought of that.

[Egg]

@Egg
Are you townreading AP?

Yes.

[Egg]

Any other thoughts?

[Egg]

I take it AP is still reading

[Egg]

AP, so you used the thing on Brian? Why? Is it something that has to be used?

[Egg]

AP the only thing I softed before today was journeying and not being a shaman.

[Egg]

Interesting. While I do suspect TTH, Hito's assertion that she made herself obvscum to lynch Staeg is weird. I think that's far from a scum claim or a 1 for 1 sacrafice. I think it's a player who didn't want to be lynched and was frustrated with her situation. Yeah, it's survivalistic and a little scummy, but Hito is acting like TTH posted a scum role PM or something.

Egg, Brian, how sure are we that "fox on the drum kit" makes the ritual fail?

I'm never all that confident on theme stuff but my best guess is we need shaman on the ritual. We know that our Day 1 ritual wasn't all shaman and it failed. However, I did say that if anyone who wasn't a shaman was on the second one, they should speak up or I'm assuming it's scum. Nobody has said anything yet so I'm kind of thinking scum have to have made it fail. I mean, unless it's TTH/you, which I doubt, we know scum was on it anyway so that makes perfect senseto.

[Egg]

Vote TellTaleHeart

[Egg]

V/LA until Wednesday

Noting that I haven't read the last few posts. Will check in to see if I can keep up in the morning.

[Egg]

Prod dodge

[Egg]

Prod dodge. I'll be back late tonight

[Egg]

AP, I know you said it's not something you'd actually support but what made you think of the no lynch thing? Like what benefit did you initially think there might be?

 If my assumptions are correct, then lynching On is still a better play but in reality its likely a choose one from Column A and one from Column B scenario.

By this logic, lynching off would be better because it's a higher chance to hit scum (33%). Although I don't see any reason to assume one on one of.

Hmmm. I feel really strongly Spiffeh and Egg are town. Either of them would have to be very good at being active, being inquisitive, and just not giving too many fucks as scum for them to be scum. 

I give plenty of fucks. Maybe too many at times. The trouble isn't how many fucks I'm giving or not giving. I'm just having a hard time. But last night's result has at least made the night game interesting for me. And then Spiff's stuff. I feel really good about Spiff, Brian, and AP being town. I guess it's turning into a PoE kind of deal for me to an extent and that can come off as not giving fucks because I don't attack much and it's hard to get in the middle of discussion that way. (And yes I realize you called me town with this, not scum, but I hate when people think I'm not trying in games. This shit consumes me sometimes. Mafia in general I mean.)

 feel that as scum a good strategy is to get one and exactly one on the ritual

Why?

By the way, I was in the Middle World last night! I was confused because I got two links for two QT threads and I didn't have the time or patience to sort out what was happening in each or who was even in each. I'm pretty certain Katsuki and camn were posting in one of them and I remember thinking it was weird.

You should probably go back and check those QTs and tell us exactly what happened and why you got two. Did you post in either? Did you talk to katcamn at all? Because I don't think Spiff said anything about you being there.

[Egg]

I dunno, AP. Spiff's stuff about the middle world doesn't seem faked and I think scum had something to do with the weird shit. Only way he's scum in my opinion is if it's all mod troll shit which I'm not really leaning towards.

Hito, while I want to know more about the two QT thing and I think TTH is scum, I don't think the 2 QTs are a good reason to scum read her. The lack of interest in those QTs might be though.

[Egg]

My PM encourages me to do reading on the Goddess related to my power animal,

Hmm. Why didn't I get anything like that?

[Egg]

I disagree that it's not possible.

[Egg]

Actually, let me just be blatant on this. While I haven't had more than one QT yet, I know 100% that it's possible to have more than one based on something in my role.

[Egg]

Don't we have a deadline coming up?

[Egg]

Fate never said but I feel like it has to be soon. Who still needs to be confirmed?

[Egg]

Confirm AP

I already confirmed you. Not sure I want Copper on there.

[Egg]

Oh, somehow didn't see Ushiro on your list. I'm kind of iffy there too. But Hito claimed animal so I dunno if we have much choice.

*shrug*

Lemme sleep on it.

[Egg]

We have five slots and almost certainly 2 scum left and 2 claimed power animals. So math says either scum or a power animal WILL be on the ritual. Should I just volunteer for something? If so, what?

[Egg]

Well, if Hito's claim is true and you believe mine, it's either that or let scum on it.

[Egg]

Keeping scum off it

[Egg]

Why? Math says we don't have enough shamans anyway unless Hito is scum. Or I guess me from everyone else's PoV.

[Egg]

Spiff and AP, would you rather have a claimed animal on the ritual or scum?

[Egg]

If you accept that two scum remain, TTH's role doesn't change it.

8 players- 2 scum = 6 town

If you accept Hito and myself as town,

6 town - 2 power animals = 4 shaman

There are 5 shaman slots on the ritual. 4 isn't enough.

Also just wondered if this means Hito and I can't both be town. But I dunno if I want to vote him just based on a mechanic we don't know much about. That's why I'm asking for help before just jumping on the ritual, or now even voting Hito.

[Egg]

One that we'd want on the ritual?

Yakko flipped "Illusion" and my win condition all but flat out says scum are illusions. Can a shaman be an illusion?

Unvote

Starting to think the lynch has to be within Hito and myself with Hito maybe effectively flavor confirmed scum from my PoV. Won't vote until we go a bit without people telling me I'm insane and why.

[Egg]

There's something before that though

[Egg]

What about Yakko's flip though? You don't think they'll all be illusions?

[Egg]

Hito, if you don't think animals being on rituals is a problem, why haven't you been jumping at them? And why is it weird for an animal to journey?

[Egg]

Fuck

Confirm Copper
Confirm Ushiro
Vote TTH
V/LA until past deadline

[Egg]

Did you read my math post? After doing so, do you think there has to be scum in me/Hito?

[Egg]

Correct play is to let TTH have a night to get a result in case she's town. Even if we think she's scum wait until tomorrow

AP, you better not be scum who is buddying me with that town read. I'm too tired to see that shit if you are.

Unvote, Vote Hito

Gogogogogo

[Egg]

I'll be caught up in approximately 6-7 hours

[Egg]

Like Brian said, if you want to float the idea of no-lynch putting us on odds, I'll listen. Lynching not-TTH today is equivalent to saying you trust TTH without reservation, since she could just fake a guilty tomorrow on mylo. So it's not correct play to "wait even if you think she's scum" unless we no-lynch.

Not interested in no lynch. Also, if TTH is scum, she probably has a buddy still alive. If we lynch scum today, she shares her result, and we have more information to work with. If she dies later on, and that could be a lynch or a NK, we have a confirmed town. Let me ask you this though. If you still think she's scum, did she come up with that claim on her own or is it mod provided?

Why am I scum, Egg? I'm actually pretty okay with scrapping a bit here because it might help wake this thread up. But all you've mentioned so far is your "it must be Egg or Hito" spec, which is clearly shot to hell with the TTH animal claim anyway.

Yeah, I was dead tired and should have realized TTH's claim means the only way my logic still works is if the scum team is you/TTH which would mean no scum were on the ritual.

Unvote

And I want lots of time to talk to Egg because it should be good regardless of his alignment.

Deadline is tomorrow afternoon, but I'll be around to check in once in a while before then.

*sigh*. I'm caught up, but stuck. I don't have any reason to specifically scum read Hito now. I want to give TTH a night. And I'm not thrilled with the idea of a no lynch.

[Egg]

Fuck, guys. No one is here? Hito and TTH are both L-3. Deadline 2 hours.

Vote Hito

Anyone out there at all?

[Egg]

Well this sucks. I probably won't be back before deadline. If I am, it will be just barely. Just know we need two more on Hito or 3+ on anyone else.

[Egg]

Hmm. Spiff and AP's middle world doesn't sound anything like my middle world. Toog said Hito was basically confirmed scum and Spiff and TTh were there. no ap though.

I was with Brian and Copper in the lower world too.

[Egg]

I did. i was telling you what was going on in the Middle World. with toog. and about hito. and we each picked one of beach, mountain, and forest. are you telling me you had a different qt than me too?

[Egg]

I did. i was telling you what was going on in the Middle World. with toog. and about hito. and we each picked one of beach, mountain, and forest. are you telling me you had a different qt than me too?

Out of curiosity, what did we say to each other in our conversation?

Paraphrased, obviously:
Fate: Pick Forest, Mountain, or Beach
Me: Who all came to this place? I think Imma pick forest, but does this really mean anything?
Copper: It's all flavor. I pick Beach
Brian: Yeah, I've been to the lower world and Copper's right. I'll take Mountain
Me: Ok, forest it is
Me:OMG guys. Toog's ghost is talking to me. Says Hito is scum. He was all normal and shit and now he's got a sarcastic tone so idk. We're gonna make sure it's him
Me: Can't figure out how to bold my forest choice. QTs suck
Copper: Carrots will bold it for you. Ask Toog about N2 stuff. And what did Camnkat's role do?
Me: Ok, forest (finally bolded). I'm not talking to CamnKat, just Toog. But the Mod may have slipped info to the dead people on Hito being scum. TTH is investigating Ushiro and it doesn't look good for Ushiro and Toog agrees Ushiro should be lynched before Hito if that happens because the mod slip is still iffy. But he was hoping we'd lynch Hito last deadline.
Brian: Hito and Ushiro feels easy but maybe it's just that easy.
Mod: Got your choices guys.
Me: Oh shit, TTH got a weird result and it wasn't on Ushiro. I wanna let her talk before I share but holy shit if she was redirected that looks bad for Ushiro because she announced she was doing it. I dunno. We'll talk in the game thread
^And that's it.

Spiff, were you in a different Middle World than me? If you were in the same one, why investigate the same person as TTH.

We need TTH in here.

Vote Ushiro

[Egg]

Brian, I wonder if I'm in another dimension or something. i used something called mutlidimensionality which I thought just gave me access to all worlds, but it sounds like I'm just in fake worlds. maybe I should just go to the middle world instead of all three to try to get back?

Spiff, did you do anything weird N2?

Hito, no one has stars in my middle world except the mod. and I was in 3 Qts. the two I described and an upper world where no one showed up. i want to hear from TtH before I say more about the middle world I went to.

I would love to hear people's thoughts on this, considering the new info brought to light.

My thoughts haven't changed.

[Egg]

I mean, I commented on what matters to me. I mostly want TTH to show up.

But as far as your stuff:
-bringing up SK feels pointless and desperate. you even acknowledge we've had 0-1 kills each night
-the assumption scum tried to NK you makes no sense
-spiff doesn't sound like he's lying
-the fact that you researched a shaman means nothing. i only remember researching a role once and it was my fakeclaim (an NCIS character for Gorrad's favorite fictional characters mafia).
-the needing rituals to fail thing doesn't quite sit right.

I mean nothing you've said screams town or persuades me in any way. i'm not even convinced spiff is scum if you are town. if you flip town, it's probably more likely that his result was fucked with than that he lied. This game is weird like that.

If TTH was actually in my QT though, it's the icing on the cake as far as you being scum and everyone will see why.

Preview edit: who said anything about secretly? have you been reading my posts? i apparently didn't see the real stuff. i just talked to fake people. except maybe TTH which is what I'm waiting for.

[Egg]

I suck at making up shit like what happened. TTH might be able to back me up anyway.

Copper, yeah my role Pm mentions that and I talked to some form or another of Toog so I guess it's sort of happened once. Also, I'm pretty sure I told Ap on day 2 that I took being able to journey as being a power role before I knew what it was. i had one other thing (stillness) which turned out to be even more disapointing. so if me being a power role is effecting the way you look at me, don't let it anymore. i'm useless.

Spiff, did you ever officially deny being in my middle world?

[Egg]

That makes me sad because you were the one who thought to verify that Toog was real and now it never happened.

[Egg]

UNVOTE

Reading. saw USHIRO's claim. want to hear from TtH before day ends

[Egg]

CONFIRM BRIAN

I agree with Ap that after TtH gets here, we lynch Ushiro and that's pretty much it for now.

[Egg]

Hito

[Egg]

Well it's still pending a bunch of things. and I didn't say Spiff is scum. i came into the day thinking it's you and hito and I'm not convinced I was wrong.

[Egg]

I'm not naive enough to believe every word you say. For example, I don't think Spiff is confirmed scum. Not even close. in fact, him flipping scum would wurprise me more than him flipping town. if he's scum, I'll probably eat those words but it's what I believe. You have even acknowledged that this play makes no sense if he's scum. But instead of calling him dumb scum, I take that to mean he's less likely to actually be scum. And as far as what is pending, there is TTH's, well, anything. There is whatever Hito needs to say now. There is your flip. There is today's ritual. There are tonight's actions. like I said, a lot. Hito is still more of a guess than anything. With a claimed guilty on you followed by you claiming scum, today's lynch can't be anyone but you so I'm willing to wait for more answers before solidifying my next scum read.

[Egg]

What else do you want to talk about?

[Egg]

So TTH was real then. In the middle world, she investigated Ushiro and "The Hound" came over and sniffed me and said everyone was in good hands or something.

[Egg]

[quotel=http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 3#p7694503]post 1810[/url], Brian Skies"]Mod confirmed by Fate or possible QT bs?[/quote]

Which part? I can't confirm that it was the real TTH, but her coming in with the redirect makes me near positive it was her. The result was posted by "The Hound". To clarify, she submitted her action in the QT and that's how the result came back. So anyone saying she's lying about the redirect, I'm telling you now I saw it so from your PoV, that's only possible if she and I are scum together. I mean, unless she's fucking with QTs and has the ability to post as "The hound", but that feels like a stretch. or maybe it's not a stretch. i don't fucking know anymore. All I can say is I saw what appears to be the redirect she described

I'm pretty sure we win if we just lynch down the line of Ushiro > TTH > hito

Ehhhh maybe.

What else do you want to talk about?

I literally just asked you a question - how do things change when Spiffeh is confirmed scum and dead?

You said "nothing is changed" and then said "well I refuse to believe that, so nothing is changed".

These are high level non-answers.

If Spiff gets confirmed as scum, I hope I'm killed because I have no clue at that point. But I'd have to look back at your AP theory and consider it or do the lazy PoE thing and stick with Hito.

I'll read this last page when I get home.

[Egg]

Yeah. pretty sure the fakes have all been player names, but I can see how that would be possible.

[Egg]

What else do you want to talk about?

Also no one is actually phased by Ushiro's claim right?

I don't feel like wading through the bullshit

As long as you promise to power lynch Spiffeh tomorrow.

Nope

[Egg]

Copper, where has my play been bad? I was on Yakko from the start and today I said Ushiro/Hito and it looks like Ushiro is about to flip scum. I mean I was wrong on Day 2 but I'm not the only one. And I only unvoted today so we could sort things out first.

[Egg]

I'm gonna be

V/LA until Tuesday

due to three consecutive 16 hour shifts at work.

I only have boring info for today. Went to the middle world only under the logic that my multidimensionality ability may be why I talked to fakes. Greyice was the only other person to post and only did so once to say that they apparently still win with town and the ritual failing means scum is Spiff/AP.

What does everyone think of Spiff getting an "illusion" result on a third party? Is it possible that's just how Fate flavored guilties this game or is it a smoking gun?

Also, with 6 alive, is this the time to consider a no lynch?

And as for the ritual, don't look at me. I'm out of ideas and I'm staying off of it.

[Egg]

Brian, if you and/or hito thought I made up all the crazy fake QT stuff, you're giving me way too much credit for creativity. Also, I saw TTH's role in action so that's why I am townreading her, but I can understand the possibility that she's behind all the weird stuff so I dunno I guess.

Can someone tell me why after a third party flip we are still assuming two living scum? Or why TTH's role and Spiff's gift can't both exist as town?

AP, to clarify my role again, on N2 I used something called stillness without knowing what it did. I was told at the start of Day 3 that I could go to all three Worlds with a new ability called multidimensionality, which I did on N3. But apparently everyone I talked to was fake except TTH. And last night, I said fuck the multidimensionality thing and journeyed normally and somehow still got a different middle world than you. So I'm out of ideas now. probably just gonna go to all three and see if I get something real out of it.

[Egg]

No posts while I slept?

[Egg]

Don't consider me a power role. I have yet to find any use for my role.

And yeah, stillness gave me multidimensionality which sounded exciting until it brought me to fake QTs.

[Egg]

Or why TTH's role and Spiff's gift can't both exist as town?

We could go down the rabbit hole and assume the redirect on you was real and Spiffeh's result was because of a redirect as well, which would make the interaction akin to a bus driver. But that would make you scum, no? As far as there being two separate redirections, I'm going go ahead and veto that based on unlikelihood.

How would a scum redirector's existence implicate any one specific player? The only thing it would do is clear TTH and to a lesser extent maybe Spiff. Also justrealized that Spiff's result coming across as "illusion" is weird when TTH's was all flavorlike so maybe there actually is something to this idea that one of TTH/Spiff has to be scum.

[Egg]

Oh

[Egg]

TTH what was the approximate wording of your cop result, paraphrased?

Do you need this directly from her or can I answer since I was there?

Because Brian is claiming a roleblock on him?That means he can't be solo-scum right now

Brian is also claiming to have been targeted by a flipped JK and your assumption about spiff assumes the block was successful.

.

@mod: do we know if there is a faction for all the town players?

Copper, what did you mean by this? Because the way I'm interpreting it (the same way Fate did), I don't see any way town asks it. But I feel like I'm missing something (working three straight doubles on my job can do that to a person)

I get this is MYLO

^I don't like how sure of this spiff is...

[Egg]

The only arguement I can remember against a no lynch is AP believing I'm obv-NK, but I don't think the rest of us agree with that. I think we should still be considering it.

I also like a Brian/AP ritual. If we stick with the theory that scum on the ritual makes it fail, success in that case confirms Copper as scum where failure implicates brian and AP. So either way we enter tomorrow with a little bit of a clearer picture.

Do you guys think I should use multidimensionality tonight? I thought it was what triggered my fake QTs, but I got a different greyice than Ap got last night without it so I don't even know anymore

[Egg]

"Greyice" didn't have a star in my middle world, no.

AP and Brian, do you plan to volunteer today?

[Egg]

I don't remember it specifically saying anything about shared alignment. it was more that I could be trusted or something. Or did you get a PM in addition to what was in the QT?

[Egg]

I just went back to check and there was no town/not town. It just implied I could be trusted.

[Egg]

Note: The word trusted did not actually show up in the result nor was I intending to quote the result with the use of my quotation marks there. Apologies.

Yeah, that was my paraphrasing. The way it was phrased is hard to re-phrase and that was the best I could do.

So you are claiming the redirect happened before you used the check and it was was a "journey redirect" from the middle world to whatever threads Egg is in?

I had a lower, middle, and upper world that night. This all happened in the middle world. I didn't think of this until now, but if everyone was fake except TTH and myself, maybe she got a result on me because I was the only other real person there. it seems more likely the action would just fail in that case, but maybe that's what happened. Ushiro was fake in that one, right?

[Egg]

By the way, pretty sure I'll be voting no lynch as soon as the ritual is sorted out

[Egg]

Confirm Brian

[Egg]

Egg, what's your flavor?

I'm a praying mantis seeking harmony or something like that.

Egg continuously thinks the Hound mechanic is genuine when it's probably bullshit

Thanks for deciding for me I guess? I wasn't aware I'd made a decision on how genuine it was yet. All I know is it happened. Hell, I'm not even convinced I saw the real TTH that night...

scum had the ability to give him a fake QT

Interesting theory.

 Yet he's like, 'nah man, it has to be real.

Hmm. Another thing I didn't know I thought. Last I knew, damn near everything I've dealt with at night in this game has been fake.

Maybe Egg took a crap in ceremonial basket

Well, I didn't think anyone was watching me and I saw Spiff walking out of the bathroom and I think we all remember his toilet clogging incident so I wanted no part of that and did what I had to do. Why haven't you volunteered for the ritual yet?

[Egg]

Prod dodge. I don't really have anything to say to the last two posts but it's been 35 hours so meh. I'm still here.

[Egg]

It seems like the ritual thing-y here is something that could be potentially important and it seems like something that could be settled very easily. If the ritual is successful that would implicate copper and if it fails it probably implicates AP.

I'll vote AP if it forces him to join the ritual. Otherwise, I intend to confirm AP and vote to no lynch.

This is kind of what I'm thinking

[Egg]

Let's wait for AP before confirming that

[Egg]

Unfortunately I won't be here for deadline. Headed to work. Was hoping AP would come in to either volunteer or actively refuse. I'm not comfortable voting him without that at this stage of the game.

[Egg]

Confirm Spiff

Already confirmed Brian

[Egg]

Confirm Brian

[Egg]

I think I know what's gonna happen today and what needs to happen tomorrow if the game isn't over at that point. I'm on my usual V/LA though and am dead tired so meaningful discussion has to wait.

V/LA until Thursday

[Egg]

I should mention my reasons for being vague are so scum doesn't have as much info when making their kill because I think today is clear cut so if we have a tomorrow I'd rather wait until then to discuss what to do. But for those I shared QTs last night, think about who was killed and why. Let's not screw this up.

[Egg]

So I'm a CO and got stabbed by a shank made from the metal in an oven rack today and they gave me a sick day for the first half of my shift so I might have some time to read what I missed later, but I'm going to bed at 9:30 AM because ERs are slow and shitty.

But the following thought came to mind for now:
Spiff, did you ever say how you got that investigation?

[Egg]

I caught up and kept having questions for AP but he answered them all already.

To clarify, AP and Copper have both claimed shaman, correct?

[Egg]

I'm still deciding between two

[Egg]

This lazy fuck will be today back after some sleep.

[Egg]

Ok I'm back so a few things...

Hito was in the middle world. He had his name starred and all so it was really him and he wanted some stuff to make it's way here:
-He didn't like AP not answering his (hito's) ISO 64 about why AP answered no to camnkat's question about my "it should be obvious" stuff
-Brian accurately and honestly paraphrased their QT discussion, but this doesn't matter now that Brian was NK'd
-some stuff that was specific to Brian to help confirm it was the real Hito. Again, useless without Brian
^Spiff was also there with a star by his name and made one no content post and that's it.

The lower world was mostly copper and I. Brian was there but mostly reflected on the Staeg lynch.

The upper world was AP, the spirits, and myself. AP didn't really say anything and never answered me about why he didn't volunteer for the ritual which I see has since been addressed here.

As for today... my Spiff read is important. I think he's town but I wish I was more confident. I was townreading him early on. The reaction to the initial QT weirdness felt genuine. The Ushiro result feels good because it's a guilty on a non town and even though Ushiro wasn't "illusion", I can see that just being the flavored way to phrase a guilty in this game and I feel like he'd try more than "meh, that's the way I got it" if he was lying. And his persistence on TTH feels town because town who feel like they've come up with something based on the setup are more likely to keep harping on the whole "how can you townread her" thing than scum who are just trying to get a power role lynched. And he just feels like he genuinely believes her role can't be there. I just don't think he's scum.

Now there's the AP/Copper apparent 1v1. I doubt very seriously they'd set it up that way as buddies. Why come in here and start pushing each other and voting each other if they are both scum? Why not try to push a townie? I really think we have one scum and one town who feels they know the other to be scum between these two.

So if AP or Copper is lone scum, this isn't LYLO. If they have a buddy, it has to be TTH unless I'm wrong about Spiff (or from someone else's PoV you could think it's me). I feel like I'm more willing to bet on Spiff's towniness than pick between AP and Copper right now and unless Spiff is scum, a mislynch of AP or Copper would end the game while a mislynch of TTH most likely wouldn't. TTH is probably the safer play and I think that's where I want to vote. I've been thinking about her role and it's not even similar to anyone else's in any way. It feels out of place. And if I was scum with a role that allows fake things (the hound) to post in QTs, I'd probably use it to try to confirm my fakeclaim of an investigative role. The result honestly makes more sense as BS than real the more I think about it.

What it comes down to is basically I want to do everything I can for us NOT to lose the game today and I think TTH gives us the best chance to make sure that doesn't happen.

[Egg]

How do you figure?

[Egg]

Deadline is today. Is anyone gonna make their push? I've made mine.

[Egg]

Copper/TTH?

[Egg]

So we needed to convince AP.

Hmm...