Mini 1795: Science [GAME OVER]

[chilledtea]

Haven't completed reading yet but we have got our scum.

VOTE : SirCakez

[chilledtea]

Cakes and anen are scum.

Less sure of anen.

Meseeks is .... null. Some of his reactions seem genuine. His reaction to naked vote from shos seemed strange.

Pretty sure we have at least one scum in {anen, cakes, meseeks}.

[chilledtea]

chilledtea, regarding 154, if you're wondering whether to bus Meeseeks or not, the answer is yes. Even if the rest of you are just goons.

Please stop being cringeworthy.

Like I get that you want to feel that you are a great scumhunter who just caught bussing and stuff.

But it looks ridiculous when you are wrong.

If this was a reaction test or something, it was bad.

[chilledtea]

chilledtea, regarding 154, if you're wondering whether to bus Meeseeks or not, the answer is yes. Even if the rest of you are just goons.

Please stop being cringeworthy.

Like I get that you want to feel that you are a great scumhunter who just caught bussing and stuff.

But it looks ridiculous when you are wrong.

If this was a reaction test or something, it was bad.

lol

To expand on this: nobody is going to care if I'm wrong about my page 7 read on a slot that had at that point posted twice and has now posted three times, especially on a player that I haven't played with before. Everyone who meets the experience requirements for this game has been wrong on page 7 before so I don't think anybody will think it's ridiculous if I'm wrong about you but I don't think I am.

I

didn't

catch you bussing. I caught you saying that Meeseeks was null and that some of his reactions seem genuine¹ and other reactions of his seem strange², but then you said that there's at least one scum in {anen, cakes, meeseeks}. Are we defining null differently?

1. I believe that he is genuinely upset that he was altguessed and genuinely disappointed that a scumgame he was looking forward to has turned out like this already. Scum have feelings too, and I care about his.
   
2. I am pretty sure he's seen naked votes before in his mafia career. He's not a newb. So yeah, it was a strange reaction.

From my perspective in which Meeseeks is far more likely to be scum than any other read we're likely to get on day 1, your unwillingness to call him anything but null but willingness to put him in the potential scum pool in 154 looks like someone who doesn't know which way the wind is going to blow but wants to be ready for it. You're positioning yourself to vote him while calling him null. That's scummy.

That's not as much scummy as it is your perception of what scum usually does.

You could have simply said that chilled tea might have been scummy or something.

The nonsensical "hey you should bus him btw even if you are goon". Like that is just ridiculous because I can't answer that in anyway. It also got on my nerves because of the arrogant style of posting.

The reason why meeseeks is null is something I can't point at. I am more suspicious of cakes than I am of meseeks.

Meseeks is definitely not a town read, and his genuineness in some things he has said makes me doubtful of the small scum read on him.

So I rather take my time with reading him. So he is null.

[chilledtea]

No.

If this is your method of scumhunting then it is objectively bad. Not only did you pre-flip associate me with meseeks, you also try to reduce the argument to you finding me scummy, when it is only "scummy" under so many assumptions that it is laughable. If meseeks is scum, and if he is a mafia PR, and IF I am a goon, then your statement has anything of value. Where do I start addressing a statement which has so many deficiencies? It is not a simple question of you being wrong on a read. It is the method of being wrong. While one may say you are wrong about me being scum, your whole statement and the timing of it, the chances of it being correct ever, is very low. To put it simply,

It's not just that you are wrong about me.

It is the way in which you were wrong about me.

Which is why I asked if it was a reaction test. If it was then it was just bad because I don't like it.

I also do not share my town reads. Or at least, try to share it as little as possible. Especially early on. Did I say you were scum for your push? No.

I will play my way. You play your way.

Please don't try to direct my play and I do not appreciate it especially when the game is going on.

Like, I got your point about why you scum read me. Your statement regarding bussing was cringeworthy and I don't really have a problem with the scum read itself. Meseeks being null isn't changing because you scum read me and regarding cakez, it is better for me to observe him more before saying anything. At the moment he is a scum read, and he hasn't done anything to change my perception of him.

[chilledtea]

I also do not share my town reads. Or at least, try to share it as little as possible. Especially early on. Did I say you were scum for your push? No.

This post screams scummy to me in a few areas, but htis was the biggest part, and I don't it can be boiled down to a thing just like "Playstyle" you should share your reads, and you not doing so is easily fence sitting. The fact you won't declare someone scum or town is something that alarms me because you can swing it either way and say beforehand "I didn't say X"

VOTE: Chilledtea

This is the best place for a vote right now.

Go back and read the post thank you.

[chilledtea]

Oh that's interesting.

What's different about me?

[chilledtea]

I think as days go by I tend to play like that.

Not on day 1.

But it is a fair observation.

My read on you is based on your previous catchup.

My read on cakez is based on the fact that he has asked a bunch of questions but, those questions don't seem to be directed at gathering any relevant information. It seems more like an attempt to either start a conversation or an attempt to look busy.

Meseeks made a similar observation.

[chilledtea]

Go back and read the post thank you.

I did read your post, I commented that was the most standout comment and most of it didn't read as alignment indicative.

Well, I said I don't share my townreads early on in the game. Not scum reads.

[chilledtea]

Cakes several of your questions including some you asked meseeks seemed more like

looking like scumhunting

rather than scumhunting itself.

It didn't feel like genuine curiosity.

Also how come you have a read on kuroi so quickly? I definitely want you to explain this read in as many words as possible.

[chilledtea]

If you are town, that explanation will help me get a better read on you.

[chilledtea]

The argument that people's play doesn't change with experience, is silly.

I am not even sure how you are analysing my scum games because they both, in some ways don't count. One was rvs lynch, the other was both scum replacing into obv scum slots with full associative tells, as a result both getting outed by the cop by day 3.

This is such a bad usage of meta. I don't get where people are getting that everyone plays the same as town all the time? Newer players tend to play differently and then they change with experience.

I consider not sharing town reads an improvement.

[chilledtea]

Also, in mini 1772, you correctly pointed out that I didn't like rvs, lurked around etc etc.

Did the same in diffusion of power. Died night 1 which was strange.

I have my reasons for my changes in my game and they are warranted. Small experiments with your play is important if you want to improve.

And people do not have the same amount of time to play mafia, sometimes more activity, less activty happens.

[chilledtea]

Hey TS, if you think I care what you think an improvement is, then you are mistaken.

It isn't up for a debate whether not sharing town reads is better play or otherwise.

So quit it.

Also, your reads are garbage. Your play is not objectively better than me, at least at this point because you have already gone into confbias mode so much that you can't see anything beyond me being scum.

There are 2 possibilities at this point : 1) You are town and you don't know how to scumhunt. 2) You are scum and you are attempting a save on your scumbuddy cakez.

So which is it?

The amount of effort you put into meta-diving me itself was laughable, and then coming to the wrong conclusion was more funny.

I have very, very few games completed from the beginning. The fact that you would attempt to meta-dive a person who is playing a game from start, on the basis of what he does as replacement is ridiculous.

The first game I played on this site itself had 28 pages before I started. The second one had something above 10. And so on and on.

Very few games I replace in at the beginning. I find rvs boring and replacing into games interesting as a result.

And I have changed as a player, I have stopped sharing town reads early on. There is no need. I also do not replace into newbie slots who got prodded and replaced for inactivity, for eg. What has this got to do with anything? Not much, except that people change with time and experience. If you think this is not an improvement, then feel free to think so and not change your playstyle. You don't have to follow in my footsteps. Cause I don't know what else to say at this point.

[chilledtea]

Ok, so BNL is pretty much read up. I'm trusting Plot on Meeseeks being our strongest scumread, and I also have chilledtea and SirCakez as my next strongest scumreads in that order.

CT scumread:

In his first few posts, he gives a few reads, which is fine. However, then comes this:

chilledtea, regarding 154, if you're wondering whether to bus Meeseeks or not, the answer is yes. Even if the rest of you are just goons.

Please stop being cringeworthy.

Like I get that you want to feel that you are a great scumhunter who just caught bussing and stuff.

But it looks ridiculous when you are wrong.

If this was a reaction test or something, it was bad.

He seems pretty annoyed, but what really pings me is that he seems to know we're town, as evident from "you want to feel like a great scumhunter", "you are wrong". At the same time, he does not seem to take a stance on our alignment. It's like he dislikes us, but doesn't call us scummy.

chilledtea, regarding 154, if you're wondering whether to bus Meeseeks or not, the answer is yes. Even if the rest of you are just goons.

Please stop being cringeworthy.

Like I get that you want to feel that you are a great scumhunter who just caught bussing and stuff.

But it looks ridiculous when you are wrong.

If this was a reaction test or something, it was bad.

lol

To expand on this: nobody is going to care if I'm wrong about my page 7 read on a slot that had at that point posted twice and has now posted three times, especially on a player that I haven't played with before. Everyone who meets the experience requirements for this game has been wrong on page 7 before so I don't think anybody will think it's ridiculous if I'm wrong about you but I don't think I am.

I

didn't

catch you bussing. I caught you saying that Meeseeks was null and that some of his reactions seem genuine¹ and other reactions of his seem strange², but then you said that there's at least one scum in {anen, cakes, meeseeks}. Are we defining null differently?

1. I believe that he is genuinely upset that he was altguessed and genuinely disappointed that a scumgame he was looking forward to has turned out like this already. Scum have feelings too, and I care about his.
   
2. I am pretty sure he's seen naked votes before in his mafia career. He's not a newb. So yeah, it was a strange reaction.

From my perspective in which Meeseeks is far more likely to be scum than any other read we're likely to get on day 1, your unwillingness to call him anything but null but willingness to put him in the potential scum pool in 154 looks like someone who doesn't know which way the wind is going to blow but wants to be ready for it. You're positioning yourself to vote him while calling him null. That's scummy.

That's not as much scummy as it is your perception of what scum usually does.

You could have simply said that chilled tea might have been scummy or something.

The nonsensical "hey you should bus him btw even if you are goon". Like that is just ridiculous because I can't answer that in anyway. It also got on my nerves because of the arrogant style of posting.

The reason why meeseeks is null is something I can't point at. I am more suspicious of cakes than I am of meseeks.

Meseeks is definitely not a town read, and his genuineness in some things he has said makes me doubtful of the small scum read on him.

So I rather take my time with reading him. So he is null.

And here the next part of the conversation continues, and the same thing happens. He is able to take a stance on Meeseeks and Cakez, but not us. But what's worse is that he doesn't seem interested in figuring out our alignment, and talks to us like we are bad town, not considering we could be scum.

In fact, this same pattern is present in the rest of his posts talking to us. He says "Your playstyle is bad" etc. but does not seem to want to find out our alignment. Yes, he does say at some points about us being possible town or possible scum but he never wants to find out which.

Cakez scumread coming next.

Okay, this is officially the most stupidest thing I have seen.

Plot correctly identified that I was town reading your slot at that time.

"Oh, it pings me that he knows we are town" is such nonsense. Also, if you are town then always remember that it is a sign of a bad scumhunter who thinks he has caught a person distancing, when that person is not only NOT distancing but also town. Plot trying to brush it off as "we all make mistakes" was dumb as you don't get to use that line with arrogance as well.

You are correct that I was annoyed and your slot is doing nothing other than annoying me. Everything in this conversation had only resulted in me getting irritated and annoyed.

[chilledtea]

My Kuroi nulltown read comes from his widespread engagement and what looks like consistent efforts to sort people. For example, he dropped a full readslist in 261 which I don't think anyone else has. 225 looks like an active town thought process, from one post he sorted Anen up to nullscum, these are the kind of posts I see town making. In 219 he directly pushed on Traveling Salesman, who is probably one of the most townread players in the game right now. Another scenario that I don't see scum engaging into. The reason he's only nulltown is due to his lower activity and a good chunk of his posts consist of little fluffs.

The post where you say that kuroi is nulltown is 222.

So it makes little(read none) sense that you give posts after them as reasons for your town read on kuroi.

The one post which you refer to which was made before 222 isn't a strong or even a weak town read of kuroi - it heavily depends on travelling salesman's actual alignment and just seems weak as a reason.

[chilledtea]

Post 94 is also an excellent example for what I consider "looking like scumhunting".

Also, can't see town motivation for that post.

[chilledtea]

The question was how did you end up having a null town read on someone who had very little posting at that time.

The answer requires you to post reasons prior to the even of you town reading him, not after.

Also, asking someone a silly question will never sort him.

[chilledtea]

Yes but you didn't give them as a reason for your null town read.

I consider silly questions something that you see from scum trying to look like scumhunting.

Like it was pretty crystal clear what kuroi wanted to say when he said javajoe's reaction was too calm and he wouldn't fake it.

It meant it was too calm to be from scum. It was strange you perceived it as too calm to be from town, considering the context of the discussion.

[chilledtea]

How can someone being too calm be an accusation?

[chilledtea]

I've been thinking about the whole TravellingSalesman/ChilledTea argument. I don't know why, but it doesn't feel like town-vs-town, but, unfortunately, I don't know which one of them is scum.

I disagree with this. I think TS is town.

[chilledtea]

Cakes several of your questions including some you asked meseeks seemed more like looking like scumhunting rather than scumhunting itself.

It didn't feel like genuine curiosity.

How do you quantify what is “genuine” curiosity?

Questions asked to gain relevant answers. Answers which cannot be possibly be had without asking the question. That generally points towards genuine curiosity.

Also, I don't think I attacked anyone with personal attacks. Someone was being arrogant, I got irritated because of that.

Regarding Open 631, I taunted someone and then proceeded to not vote him and in fact shotty was a town read of mine in that game. Although it was because of my lack of experience.

Don't know how you came to the conclusion that I am scum because I taunted someone in RVS in another game, and don't like it done to me in this game. The main reason I didn't like it was because it primarily came from a town read of mine.

[chilledtea]

Yes but you didn't give them as a reason for your null town read.

So you are using a lack of reasoning for a Town read as a knock on Cakez while you outright state it is Pro-Town not to share Town reads at all? Dichotomy of positions that isn’t Town perspective.

I do not think giving away your town reads immediately is a good idea because it is a good way of trying to see who is town-hunting in the game. Also, it might hellp in keeping them safe from nightkills although I am not sure if that always works.

However if someone says they are null town reading someone else who has very few posts and you are yourself struggling to get a read on that person (here kuroi) then it is right to ask if they had a specific reason to null-town read kuroi or was it fabricated.

[chilledtea]

Does Java's double voter claim affect your read on his slot?

Actually, Java's claim means nothing to me. Statistically, he's more likely to be town, but it could also mean that he's scum and that there's one less scum than usual for this game. The only way this would affect me would be if I was trying to lynch him. I'd probably feel out everyone's opinion before doing that. But this is day one and while I want to know about everyone, the only person that means the most to me is the one I want to lynch. That's not JavaJoe.

Wasn't this game advertised as 10 town 3 scum? Pretty sure of it.

So a strange post from kuroi.

[chilledtea]

Personally I'm keeping my vote on Chilledtea.

He's fairly active on site yet isn't posting here. Probably scum hoping to ride out the day with no additional scum-reads forming on him due to a lack of posting.

Actually, I am V/LA at the moment and it is probably going to get extended. It is mostly because I am very busy and get limited time to play.

[chilledtea]

Magna you say that meta is not a good method of scum hunting yourself and yet you are scum reading me for Open 631. Why?

[chilledtea]

Wellshyt. Either you're dumb or I was misinterpreting something.

chances are im just being dumb, gimme a hint

only thing i can think of is that youve read something ive said as me softclaiming or crumbing or in some way hinting at my role and are reading me based on that? in which case i can assure you i have not done so and in that case you did misinterpret something

Exactly.
I thought you were hinting having a PR.

If possible, I would like the post where you thought meseeks was hinting at a role.

[chilledtea]

Even in the mini theme queue where you sign up for the game, it was advertised as being singleball with 10 town and 3 scum.

[chilledtea]

I would like to go ahead and note that a billion people, hyperbolically speaking, have claimed scumreads on Shos and yet there's no momentum there.
I further would like to agree with Adenine here that the Meeseeks wagon reeks of nefarious scum motivation. I am very sure that he (Adenine) is town. I am leaning town on Meeseeks as well.

The major wagons of this game are most likely town, in my not so humble and multiple degree possessing point of view. My higher mind requires a Shos lynch or a Java lynch. I could also choose to lynch MoI but I could see him as an obstructionist 'townbeard', whereas Shos and Java I'm quite comfortable scumreading.

0_0

I think I might have played with you before....have I?

[chilledtea]

Anen and meseeks are both town reads of mine. Meseeks changed in my reads some time back but anen changed recently. I feel confident that he is town.

This is good.

If someone were to explain why shos is scum, cause I am not seeing much although there isn't much he has done that is townie either.

[chilledtea]

How is it a personal attack? If someone tries to condescending or arrogant then I am going to answer back in my own way and I did it without being personal.

Calling someone a bad scumhunter is hardly personal.


Anyways, he "taunted" me and got the reaction. If his or yours conclusion from that reaction is that I am scum, then it goes to show that I was right in open 631 to not consider shotty's reaction as AI. I am pretty sure I ask if it was indeed a reaction test to TS in my first post in the conversation.

[chilledtea]

At first I was mindblown by that TS theory but I think MOI is right here.

Proof :

Black-body radiation is the type of electromagnetic radiation within or surrounding a body in thermodynamic equilibrium with its environment, or emitted by a black body (an opaque and non-reflective body) held at constant, uniform temperature. The radiation has a specific spectrum and intensity that depends only on the temperature of the body.

Vote Count 1-2

Cabd - 1 (GuyInFreezer)
Fire Assassin - 1 (MagnaOfIllusion)
GuyInFreezer - 1 (Fire Assassin)

Javajoe24 - 1 (shos)
MagnaOfIllusion - 3 (Javajoe24, SheldonCooper)

Mr Meeseeks - 1 (SirCakez)
SheldonCooper - 1 (Aneninen)
shos - 2 (Mr Meeseeks, Travelling Salesman)

Not Voting: Cabd, chilledtea, KuroiXHF

aneninen is v/la until friday
kuroi is v/la until tuesday

13 alive means it's 7 to lynch.
deadline: (expired on 2016-06-17 23:32:33)

Both java and shoes are voting here.

[chilledtea]

Well meseeks, we should all cherish what we have got, even if it is a weak investigative role.

Magna was a strange kill.

VOTE : Cabd

[chilledtea]

VOTE : Javajoe

[chilledtea]

shos has just behaved full awful over the last few pages while cakes hasnt done anything bad since his claim

id like to give cakes a chance to live

This is scum. Look at the total lack of logic here - Mees has been calling for Cakez head all day long. Yet his excuse for unvoting him - he hasn't done anything bad since his claim which was a few hours ago. Shows he isn't honestly scum-hunting. Looks very much like scum looking to force another claim while not making a credible one himself.

VOTE: Mees

if i am scum who wanted to kill shos, i could have continued my cakes lynch, as cakes would likely have killed shos with the vengeful, so i would have got both cakes and shos in one go

Meseeks, I would like you to explain this to me. Why did you answer MOI's question in this manner when he never specifically said that you wanted to kill shos?

[chilledtea]

At present my two scum reads are fire and java. Cakez play was townie especially around his claim.

Cabd's reaction test was very good and his unvote at the end was very townie.

Travels' vote on meseeks on day 2 is bad, but I still think they are town.

Good chance of kuroi being town.

Scum team is probably in {anen, TS, fire, java, cakez, sheldon, GIF}

anen has been towny at points on day 1 and GIF is nullish. His activity is off the charts in the wrong direction.

Sheldon is going to be an interesting person to read this game. Don't know what to make of his apologetic post about MOI or shos.

[chilledtea]

There are so many players that are in my null pile.
And I haven't been hugely involved in this game and I apologize for that.

Who I want to hear more from: Cabd, Javajoe, Sheldon, and Chilledtea.

What do you want to hear from me?

[chilledtea]

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Chilledtea

Like this is "go with the flow; cabd route is being read as more townie after all try a different wagon" levels of scum.

I was absent from the game on day 1 and had read up till page 23 or something. Then voted you because I remembered you had done nothing on day 1 and also I think you were scum read by magna as well.

Anyways, you can see that I did a re-read from a part of day 1 on day 2 where I ask meseeks a question and re-state my reads.

[chilledtea]

Sheldon, what makes you think that I would not mock TS as town?

Regarding 404, it is my job to analyse every post and see the motivation behind it. What scum motivation do you think there is in me pointing out that the game is advertised as 10 town 3 scum? Because it is. I believe anti when he says there are 3 scum, pretty sure there is no mechanical manipulation behind it.

Kuroi missing something that obvious pinged me at that point and I thought that it might have been a fake townslip. Maybe kuroi went too far into pretending to be uninformed.

[chilledtea]

Well meseeks, we should all cherish what we have got, even if it is a weak investigative role.

Magna was a strange kill.

VOTE : Cabd

Why did you think Magna was a strange kill?

Because I was scum reading him. He twisted some of the stuff I said on day 1.

[chilledtea]

Interesting to see sheldon not responding to my post, but continuing his attack.

[chilledtea]

I feel like chilled was trying to preempt Kuroi's post being seen as a townslip and it feels really scum motivated.

I see this as a null actually. Town could do so with paranoia and safe measure, and scum could do so to narrow down townreads.
Just for a sake of discussion, why can't that be done as chilledtea-town?

It didn't feel like paranoia. It felt like Chilled seeing someone making something that could be construed as a townslip and trying to preempt anyone townreading him for it.
I can see not townreading it but outright scumreading and making a big deal out of it doesn't feel like town mentality.

Interesting to see sheldon not responding to my post, but continuing his attack.

If I changed my mind you'd be the first to know.

Making one post is making a big deal?

[chilledtea]

It was two posts because I was joining in the conversation that magna started.

It was a strange post and I wasn't 100% sure of the motive behind it. It could have been a townslip, it could have been a person pretending to be town going too far. I didn't scum read him at that time for it.

[chilledtea]

Huh? what? hahaha what?

How was I supposed to look into his alignment? A single post doesn't tell you everything about a person. You seem upset that I pointed out the fact that it was a strange post and seem to keep pointing at the "OTHERS might think this is townslip quick I need to do something about it" like that's just ridiculous.

[chilledtea]

I am not sure what's the problem here. The game was advertised as 3 scum 10 town. That is the truth. Kuroi missed this in 2 places, one in the opening post and one in the queue itself. If someone was paying attention to the game then they would remember that there are 3 scum, so kuroi being unsure of it pinged me and I pointed it out.

[chilledtea]

It was two posts because I was joining in the conversation that magna started.

It was a strange post and I wasn't 100% sure of the motive behind it. It could have been a townslip, it could have been a person pretending to be town going too far. I didn't scum read him at that time for it.

The reality of this is that unless you've made up your mind on which it is, all you know is that it's not a null-slip. Either you think I'm lying or you don't. Make up your mind and move forward. I was excited for science so I went for it. I didn't read the fine print. I've said this already, so yeah.

The making up of my mind is something that happens by ignoring that slip (since it isn't possible to read alignment directly from that post) and reading the remaining of your posting, and I have said that you are a town lean before. Nevertheless I consider pointing out things like that as important.

[chilledtea]

If you guys are serious about lynching me, then don't do it without giving an intent. This part is important. If you guys fail to heed this, then I do not take responsibility for my lynch since I am frequently limited access these days and I might not see the wagon itself, like in this case the wagon apparently reached L-1 and also went back without me in the picture.

Generally I won't be saying this but I kind of have little confidence in this town considering shos lynch and the way it went. That too happened in my absence and the activity skyrocketed in the last 2 days before the deadline.

[chilledtea]

That was way too many questions TS.

The word strange is not a substitute for scummy. Neither is interesting. I think I have a tendency of using those words honestly, I did find anen thinking I am playing a bit different (and being vague about it) interesting. He then explained what he found different, which I found satisfactory. Me and anen have only played past day 1 together and as town together. I have only replaced into games he played in.

Kuroi was not a townread at that time (when I pointed out his 'slip') but he is now.

Cakes has claimed vengeful reactive something. Francium.

I didn't push magna because I started scum reading him late into day 1 and I wanted see whether I was right in scum reading him. For eg, I am scum reading sheldon too. However I don't know for sure and in those instances I try to communicate with my scum reads to see if I can get anywhere. Sheldon didn't respond to my post at all and proceeded to call me 'obvscum' which was indeed scummy from my point of view.

The question regarding the scumpool - None of the people in the scum pool are my strong town reads. So they can be scum.

My read on anen was on day 1 and I would like to see more from him. He hasn't done much on day 2 at all. Kuroi pointed out that he made a 'soon' post and didn't do anything but from my experience anen does that as town as well. His reasoning and explanations around his read on meseeks PR made a lot of sense to me even though we are all PRs, I think he didn't consider that a possibility.

The reason why I find silly questions scummy is because it can often be scum trying to pretend to scumhunt. I have explained why I voted cabd.

[chilledtea]

VOTE : Fire Assassin

[chilledtea]

I did say that already, didn't I? I had read only a limited amount of day 1 before the cabd vote. Completed my read of day 1 and decided cabd was probably town, went onto my next best scum read java.

[chilledtea]

Chilled, you don't town read me only because I town read you, do you? What makes me town in your eyes?

No. It was your posting on day 1. I got town vibes from you.

[chilledtea]

Anen is town. Strong town vibes from him.

Didn't like kuroi saying "fire is scum, but I will vote him after anen". That makes little sense to me because anen lynch is not happening today.

Sheldon, if you actually observed my posts you will notice I have been scumreading fire since the start of the day. Fire hasn't done anything which resembles as thought put into the game and has also been inactive. That is why I am scumreading him. There is also a chance that java is town. He actually seems genuine to some extent with his explanations regarding his actions, for eg his vote which took me to L-1.

[chilledtea]

Cakes is townreading anen as well.

[chilledtea]

Pretty sure he is town dude.

He is one of the few people on this site that I have played a lot with. Two games, both games had several days of both of us playing together.

He is playing very similar to his town persona and even if the meta were to be discarded as a reason, his play itself hasn't given me much of a reason to scumread him apart from his day 1 starting.

[chilledtea]

Your reads haven't changed since page 13? Nobody's behaviour around the day 1 lynch changed your mind about anything?

Not significantly, no. There's been moments of paranoia and doubt flaring up and down. If you asked me about the strength behind those reads, they would go up and down with the pages from the top being "never ever lynch" to "strongest town in an otherwise scummy town" and then back up to "never ever lynch" and so forth, to the bottom being "strong scumreads" to "best guesses" and then back to strong scumreads and so on. The actual order, however, has not.

Talk to me some about your Javajoe and chilledtea townreads; are they town independently or because they don't make sense as scum together with the bottom of your readslist?

Well originally Javajoe was just a role-read. His recent in-thread posting makes me believe he'd be town. There's also the fact I don't really see anyone he makes sense as being scum with. chilledtea I acknowledge there may be some meta arguments and I acknowledge there was the apparent contradiction D2, but I got a VERY strong townread on chilledtea's early posting which only got stronger and stronger. Certain key areas just hit all the notes that I feel are "correct".

Also please talk some words about Fire Assassin and any of your other scumreads that you care to elaborate further on.

Fire Assassin's a dead null. I acknowledge the meta on him would mean he's possible as scum. I also acknowledge his extreme lack of posting is possible as scum. I further acknowledge interactions mean he's not impossible as scum. So it's not impossible. But while I recognize that objectively he could be scum, subjectively I don't feel it at all. Maybe he is, maybe he isn't, but I don't feel he is.

Didn't like this post.

[chilledtea]

It is possible I was wrong about meseeks. I got a pretty strong town vibe from meseeks on day 1 with his posting seemed so genuine but ranger doesn't seem townie with her arguments.

[chilledtea]

Can the beta radiation PR help the scum in any way? The claim definitely feels genuine to me.

[chilledtea]

It is possible I was wrong about meseeks. I got a pretty strong town vibe from meseeks on day 1 with his posting seemed so genuine but ranger doesn't seem townie with her arguments.

You realize that a players alignment doesn't change when someone new comes in it, right?

What a waste of a post. Of course I know that.

But someone's play indicates their alignment, so it is possible I was wrong about meseeks.

[chilledtea]

I went and looked up what the likelihood of it being a scum vs town role, determined that 5 out of 6 times in minis, double voter is a town role, and said that there was an 83% chance that Java was town which is good enough for day 1. How is that discrediting?

That wasn't how I read it. I'd have to reread all that section of the game to find the relevant posts and show them, but your posting definitely carried the impression you were telling the town

not

to trust the claim, rather than saying to trust the claim.

Sheldon is not a player who avoids bussing

Except they quite explicitly are. It's not as if they will never bus, ever. It's that they try to avoid it as much as possible. Distance, sure, but push come to shove, not actually bus.

if I was scum together with sheldon i probably would've let sheldon pick who to kill

Sheldon has incentive to kill MagnaofIllusion greater than any other player in the game, be it past or present, for what it's worth.

Pretty sure his/her main is famous for bussing.

[chilledtea]

Still leaning towards fire assassin's lynch.

At the moment I think {sheldon, fire assassin, ?} is the scum team and I am not sure who the third one is.

[chilledtea]

TS is town.

Meseeks was a very strong town read otherwise ranger is scum.

Meseeks agony at being scum read seemed genuine and seemed townie, didn't seem like the defensiveness you see from scum.

[chilledtea]

RC, you need to really stop underestimating me.

Also, you have a very good point about ranger thinking meseeks is rc alt and ranger not realizing who your alt is.

If I can know who sheldon is, ranger should definitely know who sheldon is.

Don't know for sure if that makes her scum but it could since she isn't probably trying to read the game as hard as a townie would.

[chilledtea]

Lol what am I supposed to say about that? It's an empty accusation.

Anyways, if you want to know how I came to know your sheldon, it is the same as TS. Magna got it wrong and so did others, I believe only me, anen, and TS got it right and I also quoted the post where you alt-slipped to say that I had probably played with you.

Your theory that I came to know about this from FA is just ridiculous.

[chilledtea]

Ranger, explain the scum read on TS for me.

[chilledtea]

I rather lynch FA.

[chilledtea]

Javajoe is a definite town read of mine.

I would like to see where he goes with regards to kuroi situation. RC is scum on the basis of his reaction to ranger's mislynch. And also on the basis of his reaction during ranger's wagon.

[chilledtea]

And also on the basis of his reaction during ranger's wagon.

Explain this part to me.

He was overconfident of ranger being scum even though he had Meseeks as town read.

It felt fake as hell.

[chilledtea]

VOTE : RadiantCowbells

[chilledtea]

Java's 1331. And who's the third scum?

Is there three scum? If there is I am not worried about looking for the third when I have two very likely ones pegged right now. And actually Kuroi, what you are saying makes no sense. I never said everyone voting ranger was scum, I said that out of the 5 that voted her, 3 have been confirmed town, and that makes you two very likely scum. And RC, saying no one regrets their vote is ludicrous considering it was a mostly children, and I said during my vote I didn't have a scum read on her, but was pressured into the vote because no other wagon was making any progress.

Oh wow.

Hmm. Java have you actually been reading this game?

[chilledtea]

Then why are you voting cakez? And why are you not pushing him?

Java is a special person for me at this point. So I would observe him and converse with him. Him and ranger, both were important and there was a reason why I was hesitating lynching ranger, other than the fact that she replaced meseeks.

[chilledtea]

While rc did have reason to consider ranger as scum (I scumread her too), RC also knows that ranger is mislynch bait, RC also was too confident of ranger being scum considering his Meseeks read, and combining these two points towards RC not giving much of a damn regarding who gets lynched.

His cases have been weak and from what I know of him he doesn't play like this as town.

[chilledtea]

Chilled tea, would you be ok with a Kuroi lynch as well?

Not ok with it.

[chilledtea]

Fine.

There's a character named Mojo Jojo and he/she visited Yttrium (Meeseeks/Ranger) night one.

Anyone wanna verify that?

Verified.

It's me and kuroi is correct.

Now lets lynch RC.

[chilledtea]

Fine.

There's a character named Mojo Jojo and he/she visited Yttrium (Meeseeks/Ranger) night one.

Anyone wanna verify that?

Verified.

It's me and kuroi is correct.

Now lets lynch RC.

At least you weren't on the Ranger wagon.
Even if Mojo Jojo is a scummy Upick.

I wanted to be scum, so I picked a villain. But our alignments are not decided by our picks, which should have been obvious to me really.

[chilledtea]

I'll just get my claim out now
I'm Francium, Vengeful Reactive Neighbor
Anyone who targets me will be told I'm Francium
Vengeful is obvious
I'm in the hood with Meeseeks and one other who I won't out for now

@Anen

Kuroi, your claim isn't confirmed to be town, it's just confirmed
mafia trackers are a thing

He has been town reading me since he tracked me, in a way I like that.

[chilledtea]

Java, the reason why I visited meseeks was because he was the strongest town read of mine at the time, and there was one more reason which I won't disclose at this point.

[chilledtea]

Cakez, I am not lurking. If you have something to ask, then do so.

[chilledtea]

Guy is probably town with the investigative result from plotinus.

Also he said he is friendly neighbour? So that does make him a strong contender for near-confirmed town.

[chilledtea]

That was directed towards aneninen.

[chilledtea]

GIF, is there a specific reason why you don't want RC lynched?

[chilledtea]

VOTE : FireAssassin

[chilledtea]

We lynch either RC, or FA today. Anything else has a high chance of being a mislynch.

[chilledtea]

By the way, remember that if you guys bring me to L-1 give intent.

As far as the lynch goes, FA and RC. Pretty sure they are both scum and still fine with either of them. Kuroi, is there a reason why you are townreading FA?

[chilledtea]

Whoever is not voting FA/RC should probably explain why and what better alternatives they have.

[chilledtea]

Simply put, I think you and FC are both scum. GIF thinks you are prob town for some reason, I think he is town and am willing to work with him on his reads.

That is why the FA vote.

[chilledtea]

No, it was something bigger
I might have written it in the hood

I can confirm that you did make a case against chilled in the hood. You basically said that he hasn't been pushed against at all, and how scum should be all over him if he were town because he is an

easy mislynch

. And you said he doesn't seem to be scum hunting and his reads are "cobbled together" whatever that means.

Actually, my sample size is very low to even make this statement.

[chilledtea]

While I agree with you on this point Java, and while I even do scumread RC,

RC never does shit,

even as town.

Also, my key point is it makes no sense to put two people you rate differently together. If you think Fire Assassin is conftown, say so. Otherwise, he's not.

That's absolutely not true.

[chilledtea]

While I agree with you on this point Java, and while I even do scumread RC, RC never does shit, even as town.

Also, my key point is it makes no sense to put two people you rate differently together. If you think Fire Assassin is conftown, say so. Otherwise, he's not.

In case it hasn't been confirmed yet, Java was talking about Cabd - when he said that "that makes you conftown in my eyes" - cabd claimed macho just like java.

[chilledtea]

What part of that quote is not true?

I underlined it.

[chilledtea]

I am calling a cakez, fa, rc scum team. Although cakez claiming vengeful seems so strange for scum.

[chilledtea]

I have been saying the same thing for the last 2 posts, lynch FA. Also RC is scum.

[chilledtea]

There are a lot of people who are scumreading FA at this point. It is better for the overall state of the game to go with the majority's point of view, I feel.

GIF for instance doesn't seem to high on an RC lynch.

Anen has done literally nothing this game on day 2 and unless he is ridiculously busy in real life or something, that is a part of him I haven't seen in other games with him. Wish he contributed more since he is a good town player especially he has good points.

[chilledtea]

Pretty sure RC is bluffing and he is either the scum jailer or he is just bluffing.

[chilledtea]

What are the chances of a jailer self-voting before claiming?

RC is 100% bluffing.

[chilledtea]

I wasn't notified of being jailed or blocked. Also running out of patience regarding the stupidity of town.

I am a tracker inventor. I give 1-shot trackers to my target to be used on the next night. I gave it to meseeks on night 1, and to java on night 2.

VOTE : RadiantCowbells

100000% scum in RC and if he isn't you can lynch me tomorrow. Stupid town has no chance of winning this game otherwise.

[chilledtea]

By the way, town already doesn't deserve to win this game. With the absolutely ridiculous play from TS trying to get ranger lynched and his laughable read on pretty much everyone and not working to get the majority scumreads lynched, to the town now swaying to RC's dumb talk. It's like town just wants to play as dumb as possible just to irritate the hell out of me.

[chilledtea]

Well meseeks,

we should all cherish what we have got

, even if it is a

weak investigative role

.

Magna was a strange kill.

VOTE : Cabd

This is my crumb on day 2. I thought the target knows that I have given him a tracker shot on the start of the day, but apparently they know it only on the next night, this was cleared later on.

[chilledtea]

Javajoe is a definite town read of mine.

I would like to see where he goes with regards to kuroi situation. RC is scum on the basis of his reaction to ranger's mislynch. And also on the basis of his reaction during ranger's wagon.

This was my crumb on day 3. Not as clear, but I wanted to point out that I town read java.

[chilledtea]

Well meseeks,

we should all cherish what we have got

, even if it is a

weak investigative role

.

Magna was a strange kill.

VOTE : Cabd

This is my crumb on day 2.

I thought the target knows that I have given him a tracker shot on the start of the day, but apparently they know it only on the next night, this was cleared later on.

[chilledtea]

Yeah? Well my crumb is as clear as it can be and my targets are very clear as well.

[chilledtea]

If you notice I never wanted to lynch ranger. You guys went ahead with it.

I targeted that person on night1 that I was sure wouldn't be nightkilled. Otherwise I would have targeted TS.

Same reasoning on night 2, could have targeted cabd but I figured java was a safer target.

[chilledtea]

I wasn't notified of being jailed or blocked. Also running out of patience regarding the stupidity of town.

I am a tracker inventor. I give 1-shot trackers to my target to be used on the next night. I gave it to meseeks on night 1, and to java on night 2.

VOTE : RadiantCowbells

100000% scum in RC and if he isn't you can lynch me tomorrow. Stupid town has no chance of winning this game otherwise.

btw if somehow you're actually town you are 100% blacklisted.

Dude, you are the worst, absolute worst mafia player I have seen in my entire life.

Your threat is meaningless. If you are town you need to look at your play more and less on others. Your blacklist means nothing. Go mislynch more people and blame them for it.

[chilledtea]

If RC is town this game then I am going to have a great laugh at this.

You should probably tattoo 1684 on your chest while you are at it.

[chilledtea]

Yeah. There is no chance we are winning this game.

GIF good job messing it up. Unless you are actually scum then well played.

[chilledtea]

No you aren't obvtown. WTH you aren't obvtown.

Neither are you confirmed town setup wise. You yourself had a game where there was a deputy without a cop.

[chilledtea]

I mean, this has to be, easily, the worst town play I have seen. And its not even my lynch. Everything, starting from shos lynch, and ranger lynch and the whole entirety of day 3.

Its just laughable man. If you notice I haven't been on any of these wagons.

[chilledtea]

I don't even care. Shos was a scumfuck and Ranger thinking her predecessor was town was pure nonsense.

If you're town you should have fucking known that I was town. Go ask Anti for spoilers.

It just means that you are nonsense at scumhunting, which I actually don't believe, hence my scumread on you.

[chilledtea]

Hey dude you are too late and I am lynched.

[chilledtea]

RC, Kuroi, cakez, GIF and FA have voted me if I am not wrong.

[chilledtea]

Yes, I am sure there are scum tracker inventors. Makes total sense.

[chilledtea]

The point is that towns in general are terrible at sorting genuine AtE from fake. Posturing and AtEing in extreme ways is the best way to win as scum right now because it always gets you townread. always.
I've still lost very few games as scum but all of them have had a point where I deliberately decided I was tired of making games personal and would rather lose than win in an unpleasant way.

The town did not do a good enough job of making themselves look town here and that's what cost us
I don't think any of the scum played particularly well really, they were all on the table for lynching at various points

I maintain my belief that ChilledTea's scumread on me was circumstantial, fleeting, bad, and that he would likely scumread me a lot as town and be equally sure.

Town lost because Adenine was figuring out the game but wasn't active or influential enough to get anything done even though he was scumreading at least 2 of us literally throughout the entire game but couldn't get anything done. Or in other words, town lost because the best townie was drowned out by the loudest one.

Point out 1 game where I scumread you when you were town.

[chilledtea]

Town played this game terrible. I have stopped signing up to games to preserve my sanity at this point.

[chilledtea]

Basically, I have a big theory post planned for MD at some point. Here's the crux of it.

1) Policy lynches need to be a thing. Not the kind of policy lynches that are currently considered policy lynches: policy lynches for entirely different reasons. More on this later. Very strict, metagame reason policy lynches.
2) People need to stop relying heavily on associative tells. Bussing is a thing and as time has gone on it has become more and more of a thing. Should not be townread.
3) Whether or not someone is trending correct should be a serious consideration in how much weight to give their reads.

Point out 1 game where I scumread you when you were town.

It will happen. When have you ever played with RC when I was town?

Dude we have been in several games together at this point.

[chilledtea]

Your play on day 3. After ranger's lynch and also your play on day 2.

There are also meta reasons but you are townier when you are town. I might not have a lock on your alignment completely but I have read you well till this point.

[chilledtea]

people expect my reads to be of higher quality than someone else's, but i'm not more important than anybody else, and i'm not neccessarily having a better game than anybody else. My reads are as good as I can make them, I'm always doing my best, but people expect me to be infallible, and nobody is infallible. Yeah, the Ranger lynch was on me. I had a bad read on her predecessor and I had a moment when I thought Ranger might be town and it felt so awful that town Ranger might be saying the things about me that she was saying that I discarded it. but I spent two day phases making sure I was right because I knew I could have strongarmed that lynch on Meeseeks on page 10 or whatever it was but there's a difference between "can" and "should". I spent two day phases trying to get it right and I still didn't, but I learned something about Ranger for next time at least. That happens sometimes; I'd say it happens to most people in most games. I wouldn't have spent two day phases working on that read if I'd been having a better game.

Anen and Javajoe had great reads this game. Nobody listened to them or paid enough attention them. I didn't either. People need to pay attention to everybody,

not sit back and let someone else solve it.

This is a recurring thing in many games. Why do people not put much effort as town to figure out? I have seen it in too many games and it makes sense in newbies but I see it in too many places.

[chilledtea]

It's true that I was busy to put my full effort into this game. Not inning until I get time.