Mini 524: Short and Sweet Mafia 2 - Game Over

[Jester]

All confirmations are in, that was quick! It is now Day 1.

May I extend my personal welcome to all of you who are new to my beloved Mafiascum. I hope you enjoy the game. Now let's get down to business, I have a book to finish!

12 alive, 7 to lynch

Looks like we're up and running, so I'll make the first post. I joined this game because it fits my play style rather well: I tend to make single long posts every third or fourth day. I also don't play mafia on weekends unless the game is in a critical stage.

Both of those things said, I'd like to make a modest proposal. In a normal game, lynch-all-lurkers would be an anti-town strategy. In this game, I think lynch-all-lurkers is going to be a matter of survival. Three months sounds like a long time, but I've seen games die for four-week stretches because someone lurked for a week, got called on it, posted something inane, lurked for another week, and then asked to be replaced. Then everyone sits around waiting for one or two replacements before they'll start playing again.

I think that's an excellent way for everyone one to lose this game. We can't afford to have that scenario happen even once.

So. Anyone who doesn't post

real

content, frequently, and every single post, we stomp flat and take our chances. Thoughts?

[Jester]

Sorry to sound like a newbie, but this is just my second game on this site.

Actually, farside, as far as I can tell, this is your

first

game on this site. You replaced into your newbie game very late in the game. In a word, yipe. You really should have completed a newbie game (and probably a mini normal) before you tried a theme game. Extreme newbies tend to give scum-tells without realizing that they're doing it. I'll try to keep your newness to the site in mind.

Oh boy, this is my first.

Antithesis, same for you, just doubly so. Go get in on a newbie game. Yow.

What you suggest seems reasonable, but I'd like to point out that it requires me (at least) to play at a level I am not certain I can maintain, given my lack of experience. And I don't want to be penalized for that.

If you wanted to play a heads-down game, you really really shouldn't have joined this game. That said, I posted what I did in my #2 interested to see who would agree with it. In fact, I believe that as long as all of us remain active and understand that this sort of game is going to require

more

reading and

more

posting than a normal Mafiascum game (much more!), I don't see why this game would require a particularly special sort of play compared to other games.

Hi, all. Well, this is nice and active!

Your post 8 struck me as 14 paragraphs of absolutely nothing. I don't mind long posts, as long as they've got content in them. But this long post didn't have anything in it. chaotic_diablo catches you out on some of this in his post 9,

and

he puts out a great opinion on lynching lurkers, so his stock goes up a couple of points.

Which way do you take?

The left fork, aka the uphill route. I'm a climber by nature and when hiking, I prefer vistas to close views.

And vote: Samruc - blatant OMGUS.

I don't get this. You hadn't said anything yet, so how is this an OMGUS by Samruc? Were you guys in a previous game together?

That said, I don’t think we should operate completely as if S&S2 will have the same role layout, but until I see evidence otherwise, I am going to assume that it does.

Don't. The first S&S was unbalanced in favor of the town. That's a big reason the game was so short. Don't assume anything for the moment except for the fact that we

probably

have either 3 or 4 scum. I

hope

we have a vig because that will speed up the game, but if there is a vig, there's probably a SK, too.

By this I mean I am thinking that Chaotic Diablo voted for himself because he can satisfy both conditions, he can help us gather some info while at the same time not exposing any important town roles to scum.

Self-voting, particularly this early in the game, is usually done by vanilla townies to get newbie scum to out themselves by joining a band-wagon.

vote: Antithesis

. Usually, though, newbie scum wait for one or more people to express shock, horror, or disdain that someone has voted for themselves and for that band-wagon to form. I've never seen someone so calmly point out that someone has voted for themselves before, and I've definitely never seen it followed by "I'll play along" and then a vote on the self-voter. What you did there was damned odd. Want to talk about it some more?

For now out of everyone who posted something Jester's idea seemed less then appealing and is not only cause for trigger happy townies, but time that could be eaten away easily playing the waiting game.

Good. You're gonna go far on this site. Next time, when you post that you disagree with someone, vote for them! Sometimes, that knocks something loose.

This is my first closed game, so I'm curious about the setup - I've only played one non-newbie before...

What do you mean by "closed game"? Your post 17 strikes me as 10 more paragraphs of nothing. What are you trying to hide behind all that text?

FOS: Elmo

.

Jester's idea is to lynch people who are useless. Scum are more than likely happy to contribute to a cause that lynches town. As a result, we can look back on how people respond to the bandwagon/lynch and point out anything scummy that they do.

QFT. Nice. I'm now reasonably convinced you're either town, or truly masterful scum.

Here is my thinking on this game. We have a set amount of space and a set amount of time to complete this, otherwise it ends in a draw (I guess thats what it would be called).

No. It ends in a loss, for both (all three) sides.

A loss is a loss. The town can't just start spamming the thread to reach a draw if the situation looks bad.

We could do it to prevent the scum from winning if the situation looks bad for us, though. It's a valid end-game tactic for the town in this game if the scum have us on the run: to try to push toward either the 90-day or the 500-post limit. Call it "suicide bomber" Mafiascum. The town still loses, but at least we prevent the scum from winning. The scum could try this tactic, but I doubt it would work since if they were losing in the late game, they wouldn't have the numbers to pull it off. Keep it in mind as a possible end-game tactic if the game starts to go really badly for us.

Because an SK is singular, and must win by themselves, I believe it would be excruciatingly hard to win. If I were an SK in this game format, it just would not be fun.

I disagree. The very nature of this game is going to ensure that we have nights quickly, and probably fairly frequently. That plays to an SK's strengths and would ratchet up the paranoia in the game tremendously. I've never been an SK in a MS game before, but I imagine it's pretty boring in a normal game here since it can be months between nights. Having an SK would also greatly speed the game, which helps the format. I'm sure we have either an SK or a vig, and since the first S&S game was so unbalanced in favor of the town, I think it's entirely possible we have both. We'll obviously know more after the first night.

Hmmm... interesting... you say no one liner... then you post two lines of nothing in the next post. You completely go back on what you said and you waste 1 post already on the first page.

Good catch!

There's a middle ground here where people can relax and play normally, albeit opening a little more thoughtfully than might be the norm on MS.

QFT. That said, go back and review my previous games and you'll find that these long-ass posts

are

how I play normally, though. BTW, you also appear to have never played a newbie game. Care to explain that?

[Jester]

Where in the OP does it say there are 3 sides?

It doesn't. As I said in my post (had you read it), I was speculating that there might be an SK. If we get to 91 days or 501 posts and there's a living SK, the SK loses too. Thus, three sides. Do I know there's an SK? No, I do not.

Jester: chaotic_diablo obviously didn't think my post 8 was devoid of content, or he wouldn't have FoSed me for it. He doesn't say anything of the kind in post 9.

You'll note he found one (and only one) paragraph in your 14 paragraph post worth commenting on and FOS'ing you for.

And see below.

If you really thought I was active lurking, you'd be voting me - or at least you should be, by your own standards. ... Your Antithesis vote doesn't make sense to me - he's not doing what you said scum would do.

As a matter of fact, I almost did vote for you, and still might. I went back and forth between you and Antithesis, and finally decided that voting Antithesis, were he scum, would create more pressure on his scum-buddies to defend him than voting you would.

Your post not only starts with exactly what I said in post 8, but seems similar to mine, so you're being hypocritical.

How exactly do you see our posts being similar, except in their length?

You agree with chaotic_diablo that your idea is a bad one. So why propose it? You realise scum can say "let's do x!" and then turn round and say "oh, yes, obviously it's a bad idea, I just wanted to draw out the scum" if people disagree, right? I don't like people doing that - it's scummy.

I was curious to see who would agree with that idea (Antithesis, Yosarian in post 33, you in post 8) and who would disagree with it (deepthought, Porochaz, chaotic_diablo, you in post 28). I also figured it would get us off to a fast start discussion-wise, which it did for the first week or so.

I also think you're far too convinced about chaotic_diablo's pro-townness for comfort. He's had what, two posts? There are other experienced players here who would call him out if he played like newbscum. Virtually EVERYONE didn't like your idea. There's only one way to be sure who is town at this point.

See above for who did, and did not, like my idea. chaotic_diablo impresses me so far. You do not impress me so far. I presume the fact that he nails you pretty good in his post 9 has nothing to do with the fact that you don't like him. As a matter of fact, I disagree with chaotic_diablo in terms of speculation about a game's set-up. I think it can be useful on day one for a number of reasons.

Now, as per your argument concerning Vanilla townies, would it be fair to say that you aren't one yourself, given as how you didn't follow that particular strategy you described as... what was it... "usually done by Vanilla townies"?

This is a prime example of false logic. By this logic, all cars have tires, therefore anything with tires must be a car. In the general case, all things being equal, townies vote for themselves far more than scum do. It doesn't mean that every townie must vote for themselves, and for you to even bring it up this way is silly. Lots of people find self-voting scummy because it distracts the town and starts an argument about whether self-voting is scummy or not. On the contrary, I find people's reactions to self-voting fascinating, and I've sure seen people band-wagon on a self-voter before. But you were the first person I'd ever seen try to justify band-wagoning a self-voter.

Gee thanks too bad you are giving the new people such a hard time.

See above. You also side-stepped my observation.

Let him bury himself if he is scum.

Scum never bury themselves without someone handing them a shovel first.

However it is the statment below that really set off alarm bells about you.

I used conditionals ("if", "could") seven times in my statement. I think I made it reasonably clear that the idea was and is a tactic of last resort if the game truly turns against us,

not

a place to start from.

I also don't think we should spend too much time on day 1 here; at some point, we really should just lynch someone.

Patience. At some point, we will lynch someone, yes, but as you should well know, rushing is always bad for the town.

Jester made a lucky guess. I did think your post 8 lacked content. The parts that I considered to be content I fosed. Still, I'd prefer it if both Jester and you not put words in my mouth.

I didn't, that I'm aware of. I stated my own opinion, that Elmo's first two posts were 24 paragraphs of nothing.

Mod, please prod Kate, no post since Sunday (5+ days).

And I'm caught up.

[Jester]

I fully expect Jester's head to explode.

No, but I think I'm gonna request to be replaced. I expected this game to draw a certain type of player, and it's instead drawn the completely opposite sort of player.

Mod, please replace me.

Sorry, and thanks.

. I'm going to get a complex here. Anyways, The Fonz replaces deepthought. Now looking for a replacement for Jester.