Mini 524: Short and Sweet Mafia 2 - Game Over

[Samruc]

I guess I'll kick it off with one of these:

vote: Franzie

Although I feel that random voting, the standard ice-breaker of Mafia maybe isn't quite as needed in this game as it use to be. Anyway, good to see everyone contributing. I'm going to enjoy a game where literally every post counts.

I don't think the time limit (three months) should be a big problem, if we all commit to a rate of approximately one or two days per post. Looking out for the post count will be more important, but I agree that it's doable.

Another thing we might discuss is how long each day can take. Day one is the hardest, with limited information, so that one usually takes a bit more time and posts. As we probably are going to play 4-5 days in-game, I'd say it's reasonable to let D1 take up ~1/3 of pages and time, which means 6-7 pages, 1 month. (Can't imagine us going on for one month, but anyhow...)

[Samruc]

We have a set amount of space and a set amount of time to complete this, otherwise it ends in a draw (I guess thats what it would be called).

A loss is a loss. The town can't just start spamming the thread to reach a draw if the situation looks bad.

Scum have to be active. I say this because they have the same deadline we townies do, but they have *probably* three times the numbers to remove in the same timeframe.

If scum want to win and beat the deadline, they are going to have to be active, my bet would be.. active from the very beginning of the game.

I don't quite agree with you here. Scum won't necessarily succeed in lynching town by being active, on the contrary, every post by scum is a risk of outing themselves. If we follow your reasoning, we will start to associate the more active players with scum, which will scare everyone off from posting. *Lurking* is bad, not posting.

***
Franzie: I don't see the point of your game, or rather, how you could relate it to mafia. I take the left road. Analyze me.

[Samruc]

I had intented to wait until Franzie answered my question, but I'll jump in on something else then.

I agree with Yosarian that FoS:es at this point is walking to carefully. We will have to be pretty ruthless with votes and accusations to arrive at lynches often enough.

I don't expect posts this long from everyone, it's just I'm extremely contentful when I really get going.

Pointing out your own usefulness is hardly useful, rather the opposite. This looks more like you are trying to project an image of being pro-town.

Loving the sig, by the way
/.../
...although you all seem fairly bright to me...

Blatant buddying-up. It's fine to be nice to the other players, but it's not helping in getting any information out of them.

Unvote, vote: Elmo

[Samruc]

So, Elmo is currently concerned about the people who have been suspicious of him. How interesting...

Loving the sig, by the way
/.../
...although you all seem fairly bright to me...

Blatant buddying-up. It's fine to be nice to the other players, but it's not helping in getting any information out of them.

I giggled at Porochaz's sig. You really think that's blatant buddying up? I think you're going beyond wrong into reaching to try and make something look suspicious.

As you can see I did mention something more than the sig comment. What is "you all seem fairly bright to me" if not buddying-up?

Jester: /.../ Why are you reaching for things to make look suspicious?

The exact same "defence" as you used against me. Why are you so nervous about people attacking you?

Do you see nothing else worth commenting on?

What I find worth commenting is how you try to deflect suspicion...

[Samruc]

I self-vote in every game. It's not a strategy used to catch scum, it's a random vote that holds no bearing on anything.

How can you call it random if you are voting yourself in every game? That seems like the opposite of random.

I think that type of talk this early in a game is just more cause for people to post no content at all and go for a tie. I would hope the town wants to win and not go for the draw in this case.

Of course we should play for the win, in every situation, because as I said before,

there is no such thing as a tie

. The only way of winning is lynching scum, and can everyone please stop suggesting otherwise...

Well that is just my paronia self going on about how best to win the game and prove I am a town person.

The only thing you can do is post, as sincere as possible. Leave it to us to judge your alignment. For example this:

Deepthought: Really not surprised you are leaving us. I don't like it and it smells like scum hiding to me. I won't change my vote till it is necessary. Sorry to deepthoughts replacement if he/she comes soon.

Why feel sorry for the vote if you think he smells like scum?

Samruc's 46 follow-up is worse, with an attempt to poison the well with an OMGUS accusation.

If it weren't for the fact that we need to cram as much as possible into each post, I'd tell you to let Elmo defend himself. Elmo didn't answer my question completely, rather avoided it and followed up with a FoS on me. Of course I find that to be OMGUS, and that's why I didn't stop focusing on him.

you've done NOTHING ELSE ALL GAME. Would you like to make an actual case about how that fact implies I am scum?

No, I don't want to make a case about how me doing nothing all game implies you are scum.

Asshat.

At least you are doing what I asked you to - showing some agressiveness...

I also went out of my way to be nice, since Antithesis seemed offended that I suggested he join a newbie game earlier.

Well, that's a better reason than "I'll Fos you".

Kate has been replaced by Setael.
Also, due to the large number of replacements already (page 3!?!) I am going to grant a boon to all of you who have stuck with this game and replaced in. The page limit has been extended to 25 pages/less than 625 posts. The 3 month deadline stands, however. That's 1 page for each replacement. This is the last and only time I will do this.

[Samruc]

In the first few post Samruc's post was friendly and helpful, but that was the first two.

And those posts also did nothing to bring the game out of the initial stage. To get moving there need to be some sort or polarisation between the players, which I'm quite happy I got. In this game, where every day counts, only one bandwagon of four after two weeks is too slow.

@ both Setael and Ether:

Elmo’s posts have seemed very pro-town

That was exactly my point against Elmo - that he was trying to *make* them look full of content by making them longer than everyone else's, and then even pointing it out(!) What hit me was the "I'm extremely contentful when I really get going." Why write such a thing if you're not trying to gain townie points?

The OMGUS-accusation was made after me quoting three lines of him, (post 38). He responded to one of them, and then asked me if I had nothing else to comment on. If he found the other points weak, he could have said so. Instead he fosed me and started telling me what to do, which really annoyed me, coming from a possible scum. When I tried to point this out (maybe not in the most civilised way) he called me "Asshat", which did nothing to improve relations.

At least Elmo played it consistently - first a fos, then a vote, and now he wants to lynch me. If that is the strategy he wants, fine, but as you can see, I'm not the only one who escalated this conflict.

[Samruc]

Also, this is an interesting factoid. His ability works at night. I'm not sure what that means.

Don't know what you're asking about here - every investigative role I've seen works at night, by sending one player's name to the mod and recieving whatever information you are allowed to.

Eleven people saying they're not a power role, i.e. claiming vanilla townie. Fake claiming is anti-town; lynch all liars, and so on.

I don't agree with you here. If everyone (for some stupid reason) started to claim townie, the powerroles would be forced to claim townie too, and it would be in town's best interest as it would bring everything back to status quo. We are all, in a way, claimed townies unless someone states something else explicitly. Of course, a townie fake-claiming a powerrole is a completely other thing.

Tbh though, as soon as someone is suspicious of you, you stop being nice to them, totally.

Fallacy - only Samruc has been suspicious of me.

You forget Jester's "Your post 17 strikes me as 10 more paragraphs of nothing. What are you trying to hide behind all that text? FOS: Elmo" to which you responded with "I don't like you".

I'm not sure why my escalating this is a bad thing. What's the point of this statement?

This was to show everyone that thinks I'm focusing too narrowmindedly on you, that it's not only because of me.

So, Elmo is currently concerned about the people who have been suspicious of him. How interesting...

I am worried about you because your suspicion of me seems fake and you've done NOTHING ELSE ALL GAME. Would you like to make an actual case about how that fact implies I am scum, or would you like to try and stir the pot a little more?

No, I don't want to make a case about how me doing nothing all game implies you are scum.

The fact you respond like this while accusing me of dodging your questions makes my jaw drop.

Well, what is your question then? You asked me if I want to make a case based on how *my* playstyle implies *you* are scum, to which the answer of course is "no". As for stirring in the pot a little more, I guess that is what you'll call this...

[Samruc]

I haven't seen Skitzer play elsewhere, but I've played several games against people with a similar style, and it's always the same dilemma. Unfortunately, every time we have to replace someone, their posts immediately lose most of their value, and "dead" posts in this game is something we want to avoid as far as possible.

Skitzer - Your playstyle is not something you change over a night, but I *urge* you to present a case for the player you find most scummy.

Elmo - I agree about the pace, it looks very well-balanced between posts and time.

I think we should set the deadline about one to one and a half weeks from now, to keep up the day pace. The game started 1st Nov, lets say 1st December.

I'm getting a bit suspicious of farside.

Skitzer: That was the worst comment I have read. You are blaming those who voted against you. What the hell! There was no reason for it. You are just taking no incentive at all. Terrible.

Both "What the hell!" and "Terrible " seems out of place here, as if she doesn't trust her vote will be accepted unless backed up by "power words". She has also joined both of the bandwagons pretty late, and now leaves the door open for jumping between them if one of them starts rolling faster than the other.

Unvote, vote: farside22

Edit: I see Bookitty posted a case for farside. Good, that makes for some more pressure.

[Samruc]

Setael: It didn't, but I left the computer for a while, and when I got back, I simply finished the post. When I saw Boo's post, I didn't see a reason to change my vote simply because of one other vote. I think you are reaching to call it "jumping on a wagon", no matter if you think I wrote my post before or after seeing Bookitty's.

(I also don't see how you think it was written after reading the other case - if it were I wouldn't have begun with the "I'm getting..." part, rather referred to Bookitty's case with something like "I agree with...")

[Samruc]

First, sorry for the long delay. The deadlines at school have been hanging over my head all week, but finally some things have cleared up. I can and will post more frequently again.

Now you have Samcur following you which well either makes him look even more like a scum trying to bounce on a bandwagon as you would say then me.

Does it really matter if I noticed Bookitty's vote or not? And do you think I would have played that way if I tried to sneak another vote on your "wagon"? (Side note: it's Sam

ruc

)

Samruc. You have given very little to this game except your tunnel vision attempt to lynch Elmo and now your lame attempt to vote against me.

What is lame - my reasons or yours?

"Based on Ether point of view and the only one that I feel had the best comments thus far I will be changing my vote.

Unvote: Vote Samruc

Are we still with the deadline of the 1st? /.../ I'm going to unvote and go through everything one last time.

Townie points here though, for actually trying to keep the deadline when people like me disappeared. Hm.

One comment made about Elmo set alarm bells?!

As I said before, I don't like random votes in this game. Anything that could get the game moving was worth a try...

As I said, slipping onto a bandwagon in progress is guaranteed to attract my attention in this game

While I agree with you in theory, it's lines like these that make the game move too slow. We have really spent enough time on D1, and we can't get out of here without wagons.

Although obvious, we've just seen this ability used right after someone claimed an investigative role. That basically tells us that we can no longer claim power roles without an extremely high risk.

This comment concerns me in more than one way. We already agreed not to talk about power roles. You're also trying to influence their play in a way that could be potentially hurtful.

Fos: chaotic_diablo

It's easy enough for me to say "Anyone who doesn't vote one of the top wagons within 48 hours has effectively voted No Lynch" but without mod enforcement, it doesn't really mean anything

Agreed.

The problem is, with a deadline, the limit for lynching someone is so low we might as well throw a dice. Or rather, lynch the least contributing player...

unvote, vote: Skitzer

. I don't think we can gain more information from D1 anyway, or rather, the time saved for the coming days will be spent in a better way. We need to get off D1 *soon*.

Just for clarification purposes because people asked: Antithesis was not modkilled. Pssh, I'd never spend that much time/energy writing a scene for a modkill.

[Samruc]

So the "nasty little scratch" hits again. Someone apparently has the ability to kill both day/night, or with time-based intervals, both of which are unnerving possibilities. It's odd that after Elmo's "^ scum hammering town" someone chose to NK Ether, but I don't think it's necessarily a point against him.

We should plan for at least three more game days, so 1st of January seems too late. I'd like the next lynch before x-mas, and have the night phase somewhere during 24-26 when people probably wouldn't post much anyway.

[Samruc]

For once I don't have much to say...

Samruc hops on /.../ This sounds more like an attempt at lynching for the sake of lynching and not for the sake of town.

I just felt like his comment here seemed like I this person isn't scum, but I'll vote him out to end the day.

Yes, I wanted a lynch for the sake of lynching. As you know, lynching is our only way to get a shot at killing scum, and I felt it important to stick to the deadline.

As Yosarian pointed out, we might be at LyLo now, which makes me think we should perhaps have a monthly deadline this time as well. But something needs to happen, and I'm not sure how to stir things up.

[Samruc]

Samruc: Y' ain't commented on Yos all game. He's scum. You could start there. Setael's good, too. Do you think I'm right or wrong, and why?

Yosarian starts with a lurker vote, no prob with that. A couple of FoSes. Missed that Setael replaced in, and votes Skitzer in the same post for not paying attention. (I thought someone had mentioned this already, but I don't see him respond to it?) Calls me out for a "scummy scummy OMGUS looking vote" for farside, but hasn't followed up this attack much.

The main point for Yos being scum, I guess, would be the fact that I hardly even noticed him in the game so far. Trying consciously to fly under the radar or not, that's what I can find against him.

Setael replaces in, and likes the wagon on me. Still thinks I'm scum, so I am biased regarding her play. States several times that Elmo sounds town. Could be scum trying to set up a link, but when Elmo points this out, she changes her mind about him.

Not a big fan of her play in this game, but I have seen her as scum in another game, and I'm not seeing the same tells here as I noticed there.

***

Samruc, you said, "Yes, I wanted a lynch for the sake of lynching. As you know, lynching is our only way to get a shot at killing scum, and I felt it important to stick to the deadline." Did you think there was a good chance Skitzer was scum?

I did think there was a reasonable chance, and it was better to take that chance now, than in the eventual endgame. And, I felt it important to stick to the deadline...

***

It sounds quiet defensive.

This is a very bad reason for suspecting someone.

#3) Yos2

Mostly this is because he has not contributed to the game as much as everyone else.

What do you think about chaotic_diablo?

[Samruc]

Not a big fan of her play in this game, but I have seen her as scum in another game, and I'm not seeing the same tells here as I noticed there.

What sort of tells are they? How are they different from Yos being town?

Not sure what you mean... I'm talking about Setael's tells here. Those have nothing to do with Yosarian. (Setael has been in just about every game of mine lately, btw.)

Afterall, I Was forced to reveal my top suspicions by Ether.

Does this make them any less valid?

***

Porochaz and farside are at L-2. I don't want a -1 yet, but I'm liking the farside wagon better.

Finally made the top of the page Vote Count

Farside22 (3): Porochaz, chaotic_diablo, Bookitty
Porochaz (2):, Setael, Yosarian2
Yosarian2 (1): Farside22
Setael (1): Elmo

not voting: Samruc

8 alive, 5 to lynch

[Samruc]

C_D didn't respond yet. Please do.

***

I'd like Samruc to respond to Farside, actually. That discussion would be interesting.

I'm not really sure it would... Farside's case against me goes back to early D1:

Ether: I have to say I really liked what you had to say. Thank you, thank you. Your Samruc's comment sounded very wise to me.

/ Next post /

Based on Ether point of view and the only one that I feel had the best comments thus far I will be changing my vote.

Unvote: Vote Samruc

I wasn't impressed then, I'm not impressed now. After this, she has been commenting on just about every post of mine, in just about every post of hers.

He hasn't stated anything to defend himself in regards to my comments and I find that most suspicious.

Farside has made up her mind about me, and I won't be able to change it. But I guess I could answer the last one:

I really don't like your post 200. Sounds like you are looking at the bandwangon's to join then making your own oppinions known.

Yes, I looked at the bandwagons. Yes, I made my opinions known. Yes, I made it clear I might join. What don't you like about it?

***

There's absolutly no pro-town reason...

I don't like these kind of statements. Especially when he already explained his reasoning. ("I won't go into any real detail about Setael until...")

***

I suggest everyone post a list of people who they can live with being lynched.

I could "live with" most lynches, but I guess you don't want me to take that literally...

farside22, Yosarian2, chaotic_diablo, Setael, Elmo

In roughly that order. For now,

vote: chaotic_diablo

Want to hear your opinions before deadline.

[Samruc]

Five suspects care to either (a) narrow it down or (b) have reason's for each person you suspect with a clear case?

I should have been more clear. These are the people I could vote for to keep a deadline. If you want me to narrow it down, let me put them in three categories: rather scummy (farside, Yos), mildly scummy (C_D), not very scummy (the rest).


Reasons... I will quote this for the third time (see the last part):

Samruc. You have given very little to this game except your tunnel vision attempt to lynch Elmo and now your lame attempt to vote against me.

What is lame - my reasons or yours?

"Based on Ether point of view and the only one that I feel had the best comments thus far I will be changing my vote.

Unvote: Vote Samruc

[Samruc]

Deadline tomorrow.

Elmo: Setael, Yosarian, Porochaz, and Farside
Bookitty: Yosarian, Porochaz, or Farside
farside: Samruc, Yos2 or Satael
Yos: (no list)
Samruc: farside, Yos, chaotic_diablo
Porochaz: (no list)
chaotic_diablo: farside, Yos, Elmo, Samruc
Setael: (no list)

[Samruc]

Samruc: I really didn't like him day 1.

Hey, I remember you! Wasn't you the guy who... ah, nevermind.

On a more serious note, Elmo is looking more town to me than before.

***

I could have gone with a farside lynch today, but I think Yos is a good candidate, and I feel at least semi-comfortable with this vote.

unvote, vote: Yosarian2

[Samruc]

Why is everyone either

a) unvoting, or
b) hiding?

HoS: Bookitty, Elmo

We *don't have time* for this. Get back on the wagon. Or find a new one.

The deadline has been moved from (before christmas), to 1st of January, to Jan 6 and now we passed that one too.

[Samruc]

Ineed more time to think. Somthin' ain't right with this lynch. Fuuuck, I hate it when this happens. :/

This is in response both to Elmo and Bookitty above. What annoys me, is that even though *everyone* (except for Yos) said they could agree to lynch Yos, he still isn't lynched, despite the fact that we passed deadline.

I'm thinking "somethin' ain't right" with this

lack of

lynch.

[Samruc]

Nice OMGUS, scumbag.

Just because you got there first doesn't mean it's OMGUS.

Well, with 3 scum in the game, it's not surprising a lot of people are willing to go along with a mindless Yos lynch here. Logically only one or two of the people on my wagon now need be town.

This is more what I would call OMGUS, pointing at everyone at your own "mindless" wagon. You think the wagon grew suspiciously fast? I think it's suspicious that people are dropping off when it was gaining momentum. Still, there could be any number of reasons.

1) Scum leaving a scumwagon, cause they see an oppurtunity to change direction.
2) Scum leaving a townwagon, to look better tomorrow. (N/A if we're at LyLo)
3) Town changing their mind about Yos.

I'm actually thinking it's 1), which makes me want to get people back on the Yos-wagon.

***

More later. Gotta go eat something.

[Samruc]

Samruc & Bookie: No feelings or they are town in my mind or I don't think, they, in the middle of the night are going to come and stab a big-ass knife in me.

Bookitty is the last person I'd imagine doing that. (Ok, I imagined it now. It was kinda funny ) All the more reason to keep a close eye on what she says in game.

however if a yos2 lynch is what the people want I will not partake in it

Why? Have the recent unvotings affected this opinion?

[Samruc]

This game is going in the completely wrong direction. If we had the luxury of time, I wouldn’t make this post (and I have been trying to delay it as far as possible) but we need to get back on track.

I thought it would be obvious after D1 that there was a link between Porochaz and me. Apparently not, but me ignoring him as I did probably wasn’t the smartest move. In fact I am kind of happy we did it this far, so I'm not blaming you Porochaz, your comment was just enough for us to stay clear D1.

I'm claiming mason (which in this game means I'm a Sister of the Blood). Porochaz is my twin, and my pm makes it perfectly clear that he (or should I say she? ) is town.

***

Yos is town. (I CHANGED MY MIND. THIS HAPPENS. LIVE WITH IT, THANKS.)
Bookitty is town.
Farside is probably town.
chaotic_diablo is probably town.

That kinda leaves Setael, Samruc, and Porochaz. That scumgroup works.

This post is full of wrong. It’s three of the following six:

Elmo.
farside
Setael
Yos
Bookitty
C_D

Deal with it.

I’m gonna

unvote, vote: Elmo

[Samruc]

I guess the case aginst me was written before the claim. Anyway, farside found a few of my breadcrumbs:

But something needs to happen, and I'm not sure how to stir things up.

Slight foreshadowing of the claim.

Porochaz and farside are at L-2. I don't want a -1 yet, but I'm liking the farside wagon better.

Trying to make people stay clear of Porochaz.

***

Samruc: Why are you voting for me?

Soon there are no people left to be suspicious of.

Bookitty had incentive to unvote Yos at -1 only if she is the uber-townie she uses to be, or if they both are scum. Yos was right to point this out. You were the only one left in that mess.

Ok, principle of exclusion is bad. I'll make some more serious thoughts tomorrow, I really need some sleep now.

If you want to continue discussion while I'm away, you can safely assume Porochaz will confirm my claim. I'm not stupid.

***

Preview-edit:
Setael was scum in BM's mystery mafia. Don't reference it, it's ongoing.

[Samruc]

I am really concerned 'bout Samruc trying to push Yos's lynch through. /.../ Your enthusiasm, indeed insistence that Yos should be lynched is disturbing, and I'm convinced the deadline doesn't account for most of it.

I'll tell you something, which should be painfully obvious to anyone by now. We've got about 3 weeks left until game deadline. We probably have to make 3 lynches within this time, which means there will be two nights, which will take approximately one week of that time.

it is good (ideally) to establish a collective standard and hold people to it

The first lynch took four weeks. The second lynch has not happened yet, passing three of our own deadlines. After

five freaking weeks

. Now you tell me why I shouldn't want to speed it up.

I'm not sure about balance generally, but weaponsmith + 2 confirmed innocent masons + vig of some kind seems off, hm? Specially given my assumption that the vig has a one-shot daykill.

a) No.
b) Fish.

I would like to point out that Setael immediately believes the mason claim after her behaviour towards Samruc on day 1 and indeed her case on Porochaz day 2. She's been suspicious of two people for a while, and they claim masons together when they admit there's an obvious connection between them and it's likely one of them gets lynched and then yea, sure, I think you're telling the truth - wtf? It's an amazingly straightforward claim as scum

Claiming mason pair as scum is Risky Business. If I were scum, there is no way I'd go to this extent to save Porochaz. [/wifom, but true]

I would like the masons to provide flavour text, to the extent allowed by the rules.

I don't like this game. Either I give too little, and you & compadres lynch me, or I give too much, and Ibby kills me... Ok, I'll do my best.

The pm mentions three rituals that I and Porochaz have gone through to become twins. I won't name them, and it shouldn't matter. Our heritage can be traced all the way to the founding of the Coven, and there are absolutely no secrets between us, as I said before. Obviously we win when there are no threats to the Coven.

Happy?

***

the real issue to me is that if you're going to have someone confirm your claim, there is no point in breadcrumbing. At the very most for his case, he's only reinforcing his connection with porochaz, whether scum or town.

As you can see, nothing gets confirmed just because two players say the same thing. But it does get more probable, which is why the posts should reflect your role. Would you have believed our claim if I attacked Porochaz all of D1? Of course not.

Here's the breadcrumbing bit. Nothing much to say other than he's giving us the support for his statement. The only problem I have with the breadcrumbing is how little there is. If there's too much or too little, then there is the suspicion of a set-up.

You could also check out my sister Porochaz calling me a "she" at several occasions, or this:

farside22, Yosarian2, chaotic_diablo, Setael, Elmo /.../ These are the people I could vote for to keep a deadline.

Porochaz isn't on that list. (Bookitty wasn't either at the time.) If you find one line where I attack Porochaz, quote it.

As I said, I have problems with most of porochaz's claim. The first thing is that porochaz confirms samruc's claim. We now have a mason group.

Duh... So you wouldn't have a problem with it, if it *didn't* confirm my claim?

The second thing is how porochaz doesn't want to identify his partner even though he states that it's obvious. samruc has stated his partner is porochaz, porochaz has confirmed it, so what is the problem?

Check the chronology. Bookitty asked for the claim Porochaz had written, but then changed his mind about. This was Porochaz's response to Bookitty.

***

Confirming my vote on Elmo for now.

[Samruc]

Also:

I find it extremely strange that you're only willing to investigate me through a flawed process of elimination.

Her reason is as good as any for a reread. In fact, to play an optimal game, you should keep reading and rereading the same stuff again and agian. "Extremely strange" are pretty strong words, and feels out of place here. This quote pushes you upwards on my list.

[Samruc]

I agree with Yos, that's as good as it gets... Bookitty is definitely out for today's lynch.

Porochaz, if you'd give us the first word of each ritual we have gone through, that might help to clear things up.

***

I realise that I might be wrong, and that we could lose, but lynching C_D isn't worse than any other lynch. I could see {C_D, farside, Setael} as a team. If not, I can just hope one of the scum chose to bus...

unvote, vote: C_D

Vote Count:
C_D: Yos, Bookitty, Elmo, Samruc
Setael: farside
farside: Porochaz
Elmo: Setael

Not voting: C_D

It's L-1, I think it's hammertime.

[Samruc]

The pm mentions three rituals that I and Porochaz have gone through to become twins.

Third sentence of the pm.

(By the way, saying that it will "clear things up" maybe wasn't the correct words, but it will do something to even out the amount of claiming from you and me.)

[Samruc]

Claiming is overrated.

That was a joke.

***

Ibby's last post seems to be from Dec 31. I'll go prod her just to be safe.

***

I don't really know how that helps anyone determine anything though?

Actually it was C_D who thought you should provide some part of the claim. Anyway...

[Samruc]

Unvote

[Samruc]

Need moar flavor.

(Or rather, any flavor at all...)

[Samruc]

Chaotic's claim is funny.

He knows for a fact that he's town. That is good, because then he knows that he should try to kill scum. If he didn't know for a fact that he was town, he would have to guess.

[Samruc]

In my face... I have to say I like the flavor of that claim.

One minor complaint would be that night = town, day = scum is flavorwise a little weird, but when you look at the kills, it makes sense that Ether would be vigged by a pro-town and vice versa.

Also: http://www.geocities.com/mischievous_ac ... onspiders/

[Samruc]

Btw, sorry for spamming, but I just have to point out that I did

not

know what Bookitty referred to when I wrote "In my face... I have to say I like the flavor of that claim."

Oh, the dangers ant pitfalls of using your second language...

[Samruc]

The fact that there hasn't been a daykill today may very well be explained by the absence of our mod. I prodded our co-mod petroleumjelly. We will need a mod after all, even if it means a kill from the SK...

***

Additionally these statements seem deliberately designed to mislead the town, given what CD is currently claiming:

chaotic_diablo wrote:
If the daykill is one-shot, then it would mean a one-shot SK will have a bizarre win condition. As such, I do not believe a one-shot SK is possible. The only options left are that a one-shot vig exists or a mafia member with a one-shot daykill ability exists.
Anything other than a one-shot, I'm not as certain on anything.


chaotic diablo wrote:
I'm confused about Elmo's stance on the kill. He proposed the first kill to be SK due to timing. Since we assume the recent night kill was by the same person, it's strange to think the killer is now a vig.


Why did you say these things?, chaotic_diablo, if you are pro-town? It's clearly misleading, is it not? It undercuts your claimed role quite badly.

C_D didn't answer this, please do.

Another question for C_D: Why aren't you telling us about your other possibility to gain a night-kill? Is it something we can affect?

***

Trying to work out what Samruc's speedy unvote means. Hrm.

Except for the obvious, you mean...

***

In the time between the -1 vote and the -1 unvote, both porochaz and setael posted without hammering.

Yes, but the fact that there might be a vig around makes hammering a bit dangerous, so it's not a clear town-tell.

***

Assuming we have an SK, which seems probable by now, there is some hope there are only two scum. It's a lot easier to fit in a pair than a trio among {Setael, Yos, Elmo, farside, Bookitty}. I think we can safely assume for now that C_D is not *scum*, possibly SK.

One possibility that hasn't been mentioned before is Bookitty - Yos. It might be something, since Bookitty unvoted at L-1, and now seems fairly sure Yos is town. On the other hand, "there's no good link that I can make for Yosarian as a scumbuddy for ANYONE" might be too bold a move to make about your scumpartner.

With five candidates, there are 5 * 4 / 2 = 10 possible pairs. Add to that me and Porochaz if you like, and we've got a total amount of 11. If you look at it mathematically, lynching me or Porochaz can take away one possibility. On the other hand, if it's a hit, the game is won. If we lynch one of the others, 4 possibilites dissappear, while not giving as much info if it hits.

I don't think Bookitty is an option for today. I don't think C_D is an option. From what a majority seems to think, it won't be Porochaz or me. In fact you would need 5 of the 6 non-masons for that lynch to happen. I suggest one of us is vigged instead, if it is needed, but hopefully we find a scum today and conclude that Poro and me is not their partner.

I'd suggest everyone ranks the "other four", cause that's where I think today's lynch will end anyway...

Yos: Would be interesting to see, because of my new slight feeling that it could be him and Bookitty. Yos - farside? Yos - Elmo? The later seems more probable.

Setael: Hard to say. Haven't heard from her since the claim, and as such, she might actually counterclaim. Not saying that she should, though, even if she is.

(Btw, Setael was vig in my last mini, and did a good job. There were masons in that setup too. I would have been surprised if she had doubted my and Poro's claim, since we had a somewhat similar discussion in that game. From my point of view, this is a small town tell.)

farside: Possibly linked with Elmo, maybe not. Thinking about the nature of their link, it seems more probable that Elmo would be scum buddying up to farside, than she being lucky, simply accepting her "town fan" in Elmo. Farside - Bookitty is another combo I don't think have been mentioned. (I guess all combos involving Boo haven't been mentioned. Anyway)

Elmo: Hi. As I said before, I'd rather vote Elmo over farside. Elmo - Yos is a possibility. Elmo - Setael maybe not so much. I suspected Elmo *a lot* during D1, and looking back I know exactly why I changed my mind; because of your complete turn-around regarding myself after I had unvoted you. I know that's a bad argument, and maybe I shouldn't have listened so much to it.

So... my ranking would now be:
1) Elmo
2) farside
3) Yos
4) Setael

Vote: Elmo

***

I think this is an up-to-date vote count:
Setael: Yos, Elmo
Samruc: farside
Elmo: Setael, Samruc
farside: Porochaz, Bookitty

Not voting: C_D

***

It feels a lot better being on the same wagon as Setael and Bookitty, compared to Yos and Elmo...

Edit: I guess I'm not anymore... ah well, I changed the VC, gotta eat something now.

[Samruc]

Unvote, vote: farside

Vote count:

Farside: Bookitty, Porochaz, Samruc, Yos
Setael: Elmo
Samruc: farside
Elmo: Setael

Not voting: C_D

It's L-1.

***

If a lynch happens, please refrain from twilight speculation, asking where the mod is, etc. Believe it or not, but we might actually run short on posts if we continue at this rate.

[Samruc]

Still think we should shut up for now, hopefully we can get some extension.

***

I've got some info from petroleumjelly, our co-mod. He's waiting for mod powers for this thread, so nothing is official yet, but be prepared to send your role pm's to him if he asks for it.

He said he will edit in some more info (but that means the thread won't be bumped, so keep your eyes on this one anyway.)

I'm back. Computer problems have kept me away. I'll check what's been going on and if my absence has caused a delay, the final deadline will be extended.

Howdy, this is PJ. I cannot at the moment find any file with roles/alignments/nightchoices on my computer. If Ibby has not returned by Wednesday, I will ask all players to send me their role PMs and I will continue the game as best I can.

I will -- naturally -- extend the game deadline since this time being used is not at the fault of the players.

Farside22 has been lynched. She was a

Sister of the Blood, Mafia

. It is now

Night Two

. Night choices are due to me by January 29, 11:59 pm PST.

[Samruc]

Setael beat me to it. I'm not at all surprised that Elmo tries to gets a mason lynch. The reasoning is poor. Elmo is kind of linked with farside. Case closed.

Vote: Elmo

Side note: I had hoped this game would be over by now, as I will have limited access for three weeks from tomorrow (which means the rest of this game). Prod me if I'm gone for too long.

[Samruc]

Samruc and Porochaz, what are your thoughts on the fact that Farside's title is the same as your claimed title? Any ideas regarding that?

If C_D's claim is correct, there is an SK counterpart with very similar flavor to his own. (Night follows day, and so on.) Having both a town and an antitown group with the same flavor would fit in with this kind of duality.

but it's pretty much literally impossible for Samruc to know the phrase "sister of the blood" as a pro-town mason.

You really do think I'm stupid, don't you?

Look at how farside was lynched. How do you think I would have behaved if I knew, that when she died she would out me & P if we had been scum partners? And how do you think farside would have reacted to the mason claim when I suddenly got this "stupid idea" as her scum partner?

[Samruc]

That was probably not what the SK intended... I can't see three mafia, vs two masons with the same name, it's too asymmetrical, so there should only be one killer left.

I might be wrong, but I think it's mass claim for the win. If no one counterclaims C_D, I'll believe him. If someone claims doc/role blocker/whatever stopped Setael from killing, I'll believe him/her. This should give us enough confirmed pro-towns to nail this.

Before we decide, I want everyone to try to imagine a scenario where this would fail. No one outs themselves yet, please.

[Samruc]

Claiming mason with Porochaz was so funny

We were going down fast, and I had no idea how to time it optimally. Luckily, it was enough to swing the game to town's advantage, even though some didn't believe us. I would never have dared to play as I did if it weren't for the confirmable claim...

Good job everyone who nailed C_D in the end. I still wasn't sure...

I think I was actually aiming for him to nightkill her

If this affected C_D's choice, lots of cred to Elmo!