Mini 1818: Princess Bride Mafia (Game Over!)

[Infinity 324]

/confirm

I hope I don't get lynched this game~

[Infinity 324]

Hi rach, this is gonna be fun

I might as well claim now, I'm the beloved princess. When I die the next day phase is skipped.

[Infinity 324]

Cause it's negative utility so less risk to be NKed

Also gives us something to talk about

[Infinity 324]

It's less likely to be targeted than a normal PR, so I don't see a particular downside to doing it...

[Infinity 324]

It only works if I'm lynched.

[Infinity 324]

^ scum

[Infinity 324]

Still don't see the downside to claiming there, maybe I'm being an idiot.

Also why is discussing it useless?

Also Leon, why feel the need to defend your reaction?

[Infinity 324]

Ok it's true scum know now not to NK me, didn't think about that. But the chances to hit a PR don't increase by that much. I guess we don't know how many PRs there are...

What nero said is true, I also just wanted to have something to discuss and get the game going.

I think nero is town, he's already showing a different tone from gunslingers.

So far I scumread primate and leon.

VOTE: primate

[Infinity 324]

Infin

I can see a teeny case on Leon for the nervousness about being misunderstood but what do you have on primate?

His entrance was slightly awkward and he didn't question me when I called him scum for it, just said "nope".

Are you his scum buddy?

[Infinity 324]

Wow you're sassy MoI lol

This is RVS, that's how I play it lol.

[Infinity 324]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: massive

[Infinity 324]

Are you a lyncher?

[Infinity 324]

I think rach is being a little more proactive than she would be as scum but not sure.

[Infinity 324]

Ok I think rach is town too.

[Infinity 324]

MoI you're going to have to explain why you called me out for a bad vote on page 2 lol

[Infinity 324]

I kind of see shadow cause all he's said is theory stuff so far

[Infinity 324]

Yeah nero is town, he never said random stupid stuff like he's saying now in gunslingers (a recent completed game I played with nero scum)

Why do you think being dense is scummy nero?

[Infinity 324]

Magna of Illusion - (2/7) - Farside22

mod, fix this please

[Infinity 324]

Oh so we have a double voter do we?

That makes farside more likely to be town.

So we have

town - me, farside, nero, rach
null - PEP, DPR, massive, MoI, sword (entrance slightly towny but I'm not sure)
scum - shadow, leon, primate

[Infinity 324]

some peeps need to post we are sorely lacking anything at all from some here

lol rach, it's 6 hours since the game started

I do think lurking in RVS is a scumtell tho

[Infinity 324]

I think the fact he only discussed theory so far is scummy.

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But I think nero is town and I kinda want to trust him on the massive wagon. I'm curious what his ~reasons~ are.

[Infinity 324]

I played with him in a game recently and he wasn't this troll-y. Rach is confirming that being like that is a towntell for him.

I actually have never seen a scum player who looks like he's saying everything that comes to his mind, and that's the feeling I get from nero.

[Infinity 324]

Town lean on DPR.

[Infinity 324]

Really Nero fake dk ??

Rach and I have played a ton. She knows that I often do the fake dayvig to voice my displeasure with something so I felt it was a bit off when acted like it was bizarre that I was doing something that I do all the time.

/firm /ego

Why are you scum reading massive Nero?

She posts massives only post and I thought it was absolutely ridiculous she would think I'd scum read massive. Then she pounces on me for "not pushing a s scum read" I think this was something very easy to push to make it look like she was doing something. Its also very skin deep. Does she actually think I'd put myself out there as scum?

I also don't really like how she was acting like it was odd for me to believe we could have a second faction but that might just be us having different views on an sk.

but

so you are voting someone you are not reading as scum
over two people you say you think are scum, but not of the same scum team?

is kinda pointed and silly 'cause I never once said that.

Ok well

I get the impression that rach is more of a "go with the flow" type player as scum. Rach, is this true?

The fact that she is being proactive early on trying to figure out someone's alignment reads town to me. Yes, she said some silly things, but I don't see why she would say those things as scum but not as town.

[Infinity 324]

Have you ever played with Rach before?

Yes, though the last completed game we played together was a couple years ago. I haven't played in a completed game where she was scum, but I believe I've looked at one of her scum ISOs.

[Infinity 324]

Maybe you just think voting for him might do something, and we don't need to lynch him?

Yes, I think that's what he's saying.

[Infinity 324]

I mean, maybe your right and Rach saying absolutely silly things=//=scum

I think the main thing is that I don't see saying silly things as a scumtell in general.

PEdit: Yeah that makes sense

[Infinity 324]

I mean yeah but then they would just be sooo stupid that they can't be held accountable for their actions. Rach isn't doing that at all

[Infinity 324]

Yeah that's true cause a lot of times scum don't want to draw attention to themselves

[Infinity 324]

Nero can I move my vote now? Cause I kinda wanna based on that ^

[Infinity 324]

I kinda wanna townread Leon cause I like his reads and the PEP vote is proactive, but that seems naive

[Infinity 324]

What the fuck just happened

[Infinity 324]

Ok nero, can you explain why massive was lynched early?

Rach, if you shot leon, I don't think you should've...

w/e it's too late now

[Infinity 324]

Was about to post this yesterday:

MoI can you chill on the criticizing others' play?

MoI you're going to have to explain why you called me out for a bad vote on page 2 lol

Because I can. As you said – “it is RVS I will play like I want”.

That said – your reasoning is pure garbage. You tossing a naked “Scum” assessment on someone on Page 2 and having it met with a “Nope” is not indicative of a scum reaction. Sorry to burst your bubble but it isn’t. Primate gave you a completely appropriate level of response. It isn’t “touchy” or an overreaction. It is meeting fluff with fluff. Which is clearly NAI.

I think town!primate was more likely to question why I said it was scum rather than just say nope. Obviously it's a weak read.

Why are you so worried about me calling your page 2 reasoning bad? I mean it is but I would not find it alignment indicative.

I wanted you to explain you calling my vote bad because it may have been a way to look busy. This post looks like you're actually trying to analyze stuff which is good.

I actually have never seen a scum player who looks like he's saying everything that comes to his mind, and that's the feeling I get from nero.

For someone who has your join date this is awfully bad. Have you never read a single game with someone like Fate or Faraday as scum?

No, I have never seen fate or faraday as scum. However I have read a shit ton of games and never seen scum fake posting whatever they're thinking so yeah.

[Infinity 324]

Ok, then why did you want him wagoned?

[Infinity 324]

I think Nero is probably town. I've never seen him as town before but I believe Rach and he does seem to be open and uncaring.
I don't know how I feel about Rach poking him and then declaring him town and then moving on. 108 also feels kinda awkward.
I don't like recent posting from Leon or Peter, either.
-smart

Still don't like this post

VOTE: sword

[Infinity 324]

It's shallow and adds nothing new.

[Infinity 324]

Why DPR nero?

[Infinity 324]

-_-

[Infinity 324]

you don't agree he needs to start doing things?

I don't agree you should scumread him for it. His thought processes have looked towny to me.

[Infinity 324]

All DPR has done this whole game is argue that I am playing differently then some other game and then agree with you and MOI about stuff. And his 202 is useless IIOA so I'm not really seeing this townie thought process.

Well I looked back at his ISO and didn't find much

I guess it's a gut read

[Infinity 324]

Scum win a lot of games by lurking while toe fight amongst themselves...

PEP, DPR, primate (whose posting did not get any better btw), sword hydra, and shaddowez need to get in here and post content.

It's very likely that all the scum are in that pool.

[Infinity 324]

Kuroi can you tell us who scum are?

[Infinity 324]

How about giving your reads so far?

[Infinity 324]

Hello? Anyone home?

[Infinity 324]

Well you've posted enough already...

I want to see more from PEP, sword, primate, and shadowez.

[Infinity 324]

Yeah that last paragraph from PEP looks over-apologetic

[Infinity 324]

Ehh ok

UNVOTE:

FoS: sword

[Infinity 324]

@Infinity

– why didn’t you even consider that voting right away might not be the best course of action?

idk, I guess I just assumed it was 1-shot

I think town!primate was more likely to question why I said it was scum rather than just say nope. Obviously it's a weak read.

Why do you think Town Primate should give two cents about a page 2 naked “This is scum” statement? I’m deadly serious on this. If Primate is Town he knows you have absolutely no role information that is coloring that claim so it looks like, at best, a crappy reaction test. Scum tend to be more jumpy about being called out for non-transparent reasons.

Oh for fuck's sake why do you care, it's not like scum!me is going to push a mislynch based on 2 1-word posts...

I think it would be odd for town!primate to be called out specifically over everyone else, so I expected him to question that.

If you have read as many games as you are claiming here I highly doubt you haven’t come across a single player whose play-style is free-wheeling.

...so you're saying I'm lying? I'm just telling you my experience, there might be a case where scum looked like town just posting all their thoughts when they came up but I forgot it. In any case that's very rare.

[Infinity 324]

[quote="In post 237, Infinity 324]I want to see more from PEP, sword, primate, and shadowez.[/quote]

[Infinity 324]

Fair enough

That question may have been harsh, I just don't know why it would benefit be as scum to make a weak vote there.

Anyway I think we've beaten the subject to death.

[Infinity 324]

/confirm

I hope I don't get lynched this game~

Only scum is worried only about the lynch

Townies have to worry about the NK

LOL

Nice scum claim

Lol I guessed you missed my actual claim...

That was a crumb and then I decided since I was negative utility to just say fuck it and claim

[Infinity 324]

(my claim is a variant of beloved princess where the day phase is skipped when I'm lynched)

[Infinity 324]

^ I was the one that said that

[Infinity 324]

I accidentally unbookmarked this, looks like missed a lot of stuff

Getting to it

[Infinity 324]

Infinity is rubbing me the wrong way. His first few posts have nothing substantial except the claim, which directed discussion that way but didn't provide anything useful. He scum reads primate and Leon in 41, with a weak reasoning on primate (in 47 and no reasoning on leon). He then doesn't mention Primate again until 188. He follows the lead onto the massive wagon with no questions in 61, and none of his reads are substantial (lurking, just discussing theory, vague meta). 161 especially pings me, since he's doing basically what he says here - there's a lot of going along with the discussion, but not much to make himself stand out.

Try to play mafia when your scumreads aren't posting

Early on I was mainly trying to convince my townreads that my other townreads are town

I don't know smart's meta, but I'm willing to bet SoD is scum right now based on Ari's.

No FoS or questioning of them?

Nero can I move my vote now? Cause I kinda wanna based on that ^

Infinity

- Why did you ask permission to move your vote here?

Cause I was voting massive because I trusted nero and wanted to know if he accomplished what he was trying to do wrt massive.

[Infinity 324]

The 2-3 scum are here.

Peter Elric Pines
DrippingGoofball
Sword of Damocles (Aristophanes + Something_Smart)
farside22

You think scum have a doublevoter?

Throw shaddowez in there too.

A newbie loses his vote each time Infinity and Aristophanes post elsewhere on the site.

Sorry lol

I won't.

Be very suprised if infinity is scum.

DBG may be overplaying the inconvenience of the pr for sympathy points if dpr genuinely got confirmation that he could stop doing it. I'm leaning town on that slot, partially because the role claim and replacement thing is fine, partially behaviour, mostly dpr's.

I don't have a read on PEP. I think his position of focusing on Nero is fine, and I get why you might find him scummy, but the kind of tells I'm picking up from him are ones that newbies also drop. I'd like to see more from him that's proactive, but pot calling the kettle black on that, and he'll have to provide something soon, so there's no point judging based on that.

I don't know Shadow's meta but that big catchup post looks legit.

Fos: Sword Of Damocles

Hedgy.

Farside seems town.
Scum vibes from nero.
<3 Magna but I don't really agree with him today.

I like this post but scum can make good posts too

Sure. TBH I think that the happenings around the replacement speak to you probably being town but that's not really something we can discuss and could just be a red herring.

It was mostly the fact that you said you were willing to risk modkill because the pr was that oppressive. I get this one is a bit uncreative, but it could be worse if you did get it. Not that I've played with you in ages, but I remember you being game for pr stuff.

Ok this is too nitpicky to be scum I think

MoI so far has pushed some flimsy thoughts that read as a stretch to me. I also got a scum tell from him when I asked him a question and he goes on the defensive and starts attacking all in the same post.

Don't see how any of this is AI

I'm not seeing the town read from dgb.
She self votes and then states concern about a modkilled in the same breath?
Also the replaced asked if he could stop with the restriction and was told he could, so I'm not sure why dgb is acting like the victim here.

You have a point here...

I'm having trouble distinguishing between bad town and scum.

protip: Bad play isn't a scumtell.

DGB’s entrance at first glance looks very structured to my eye. Literally she manages to hit the following “Look I’m Town” points in that initial string of posts.

1. Self-Voting (which Massive has shown to come from Town) with a healthy sprinkling of “Woe is me” throw in.
2. “Oops the person I claimed scum via secret scum tell actually flipped Town – I must be Town for not knowing she died”. Ranger tried this exact maneuver in Open 633 – ( see post 1159 in this thread http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 1#p7868241 ).
3. Jokingly calling Farside her “scum-buddy”.

This is a good point too...

On another note I think the post restriction is completely made up.

But this....no.

^ I was the one that said that

Nvm about this. Though I will say "beating a dead horse" isn't really a scumtell

[Infinity 324]

Also I don't really think DPR was "under pressure" when he replaced out. Though I do see the argument for him using the post restriction to gain sympathy.

[Infinity 324]

Hmm

I don't think scum would think to make up that post restriction, and I don't think DRP would go through that much effort only to replace out.

Haven't people other than shadow been treating my claim as NAI as well? Why do you think doing that is scummy?

Also, do you think my claim is townier than farside's claim? Why?

I could see a PEP/sword team, though that defense is a bit obvious

[Infinity 324]

Other people have been treating the claim as NAI I believe (MoI for example), though not saying. I disagree that it's scummy for shadow to call the claim NAI since he might just disagree but w/e

Makes sense about the claims

Also I was just talking about the way you defended PEP, it's a bit more obvious than I would except from scumbuddies but not sure.

Do you know where Ari is? He said he would make a big post a few days ago but never did.

[Infinity 324]

-town usually tries to pressure their scum reads in some way
-scum DV is a bit op
-imo, most players' town games are weak enough that they can use similar logic to their town game as scum and still pretend to scumread townies.

[Infinity 324]

Aren't we still doing the not-voting thing?

Anyway I support a DGB wagon.

[Infinity 324]

VOTE: DGB

hey, how often have you seen scum doublevoter?

[Infinity 324]

Your obvious inability to read this game is pretty obviously scum motivated

Can we start using actual scumtells thanks

[Infinity 324]

but I've already solved the game

It's page 16. Let's not get ahead of ourselves.

[Infinity 324]

Your obvious inability to read this game is pretty obviously scum motivated

Can we start using actual scumtells thanks

I'm curious what you thought of Primate.
You had this scum tell because of page 2 and then said really nothing about him.

I thought his views were fine, nothing exciting, but nothing scummy.
I read him as pretty relaxed

I think what he posted was in-depth and kind of nitpicky, and I find those things to be towntells. I quoted something in my wall related to that I believe.

Anyway he's a town lean for me atm.

[Infinity 324]

Honestly I don't remember anything specific but her thoughts and reaction to being pushed seem genuine. Also the doublevoter thing.

[Infinity 324]

I think scum who are known for good town play would probably try and make their play look good. So her play being bad (which I don't even really agree which) would be NAI I think.

[Infinity 324]

mine is the opposite. Like I was noting the connection with DPR and then she was all the sudden "I'M IGNORING YOU!"

Like WTF?!?

I think a scum DV is very possible.

Honestly I just wrote her off as town when she claimed dv cause it fit my gut read

Scum don't usually like to throw fits unless they're about to be lynched so yeah

Scum dv is possible but not likely

[Infinity 324]

With the massive kill scum dv became even less likely

[Infinity 324]

explain?

It's likely that the nero kill was because of a scum power. So that would be way too much for scum unless this is role madness or smth.

[Infinity 324]

I don't see how an x-shot(1?) scum power that ended the day, scum vig/executioner and a scum DV are too much power but thats mostly 'cause I'm thinking we have 2 scum in a 12 as opposed to the standard 3 in a 13.

I was assuming 3 scum cause 2 is standard for 9p and 3 is standard for 13p and 12 is closer to 13.

But it definitely could be just 2 scum PR's as well.

[Infinity 324]

Maybe if you gave me a good reason other than "playing bad" and "not reading".

I'm kinda being lazy right now but I have a solid gut townread on farside + the claim.

[Infinity 324]

I don't think it's scummy to try to get someone to vote someone who you think is scummier than the player they're voting.

If DGB is town it's NAI for sure, and I think it's even too obvious if they're buddies

Sorry but don't expect me to be convinced by your case.

[Infinity 324]

I'll ISO farside again if you're willing to consider the possibility that she's town.

[Infinity 324]

Farside, what do you think about sword?

PEdit: It's not impossible but it's a bit obvious and it's also pre-flip associatives.

[Infinity 324]

If DGB flips scum we'll talk about it.

[Infinity 324]

I don't think it's scummy to try to get someone to vote someone who you think is scummier than the player they're voting.

If DGB is town it's NAI for sure, and I think it's even too obvious if they're buddies

Sorry but don't expect me to be convinced by your case.

I just put Nero on ignore because hes being irrational. I know I said this before

Anyways, who are your prime scum suspects besides dgb?

I guess PEP is actually my top scumread atm for over-apologetic posting. Not sure about sword, I liked smart's catchup though.

bro, I wasn't even hard scumreading her in the first place. I just think her reactions since I pointed out a link with DPR/DGB have been awful.

You mean saying "mountain = molehill" and "you're ignoring me" and stuff like that?

[Infinity 324]

I think it would be better if you guys stopped talking to each other for the time being.

[Infinity 324]

Ok I pretty much agree with that. Also nero could be right that there are 2 scum.

[Infinity 324]

Oh and also shadow is still in my scum pile as well.

[Infinity 324]

Town: Me, nero, farside, MoI
Mehh town: sword, primate
Mehh scum: DGB, shadow
Scum: PEP

[Infinity 324]

not alignment indicative

[Infinity 324]

What do you think about PEP being over-apologetic

[Infinity 324]

What you're saying implies that scum acting like casual town and real casual town look the same to MoI. Why can't he have made the judgement that you look like you're

acting

like casual town instead of

being

casual town?

Also your VT claim is NAI I think

Case is towny, though, I think. Maybe.

What do you think about the other points MoI brought up and the points farside brought up?

[Infinity 324]

You mean his other points on you?

[Infinity 324]

DGB’s entrance at first glance looks very structured to my eye. Literally she manages to hit the following “Look I’m Town” points in that initial string of posts.

1. Self-Voting (which Massive has shown to come from Town) with a healthy sprinkling of “Woe is me” throw in.
2. “Oops the person I claimed scum via secret scum tell actually flipped Town – I must be Town for not knowing she died”. Ranger tried this exact maneuver in Open 633 – ( see post 1159 in this thread http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 1#p7868241 ).
3. Jokingly calling Farside her “scum-buddy”.

=
I'm not seeing the town read from dgb.
She self votes and then states concern about a modkilled in the same breath?
Also the replaced asked if he could stop with the restriction and was told he could, so I'm not sure why dgb is acting like the victim here.

[Infinity 324]

His point is that it's a coincidence that you would do all those things as town, where as scum you would want to do as many towny things as possible.

[Infinity 324]

I think he has a point...

I do think you looks more town now tho.

Let's do this.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: PEP

[Infinity 324]

The criticizing of MoI's case feels town to me.

[Infinity 324]

What do you think about smart's recent posts, I liked them

[Infinity 324]

Which scum

[Infinity 324]

Why

[Infinity 324]

Ok farside is town for having the exact same scum pile as me

[Infinity 324]

Hmm ok

I could sheep you guys on DGB

I really want to hear more from PEP slot

Also I think nero is voteless lol

PEdit: yeah

[Infinity 324]

Didn't nero have a vote d1?

Anyway vote stealer is just too OP of a role for scum

[Infinity 324]

Can everyone who isn't voting make a practice vote on someone with no votes to see what happens?

[Infinity 324]

I think scum DV is OP, and scum vote stealer is strictly better. lol

[Infinity 324]

First you accuse him of confbias, then say he's scum?

??

[Infinity 324]

Hmm, DGB trying to sow paranoia...

I support this lynch

PEdit: I think MoI is town but sure

[Infinity 324]

DGB, when did farside become a town read of yours?

I don't know hew alignment

But I twust hew to avenge me and lynch MOI

Ok this is BS, why appeal to farside unless you read her as town?

[Infinity 324]

Ok I'm even more ok with a DGB lynch

[Infinity 324]

Somehow, I don't think it is in this case...

[Infinity 324]

I think you guys are pushing the DGB wagon enough, if anyone disagrees with it I'll try to convince them

But yes I would very much like wingback's input.

[Infinity 324]

Hmm

it has to do with an ongoing game

it's more incriminating that it sounds.

[Infinity 324]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... user_sort=

I gather that she tends to troll and play dumb as scum

[Infinity 324]

@Mod, I hope that doesn't cross the line about ongoing games, if so, please delete it. Thanks

[Infinity 324]

[Infinity 324]

I didn't say anything directly about the game, I thought that would be fine...

[Infinity 324]

Ughh sorryyyy

[Infinity 324]

Sorry for getting force replaced guys

I misread my role pm and claimed in pregame because I thought it was only on lynch, and then when I reread I just decided to go with that...lol

[Infinity 324]

Sorry I'm in 5 games and having trouble keeping up as is...

[Infinity 324]

At least I learned

[Infinity 324]

You too!~

MoI played really well this game, congrats to him.

[Infinity 324]

I don't think it was correct to no lynch at the end there, because of the joint win the mafia and SK didn't have a reason to kill each other, unless it counts for more if you win by yourself I guess.

Yeah gj both scum parties.

[Infinity 324]

tbf DGB did kinda town it up after I got replaced

[Infinity 324]

Sorry

[Infinity 324]

Reading the mafia PT, I see kuroi basically told the scum I was lying :/

it was a bad idea in the first place, but I would recommend not commenting on role-specific questions in themes.

[Infinity 324]

lol that's funny

[Infinity 324]

Well you told scum beloved princess works on both lynch and night kill, implying that that's how it worked in your game and that I was lying about it only working on lynch.

[Infinity 324]

But your answer implied that if you had beloved princess in your game, it would work in that particular way.

[Infinity 324]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 9#p8163889

[Infinity 324]

I see what you mean, but in a theme game the are a lot of possible variants and you could give out information about whether you have those variants/which ones you have.

Anyone else have thoughts on this?

[Infinity 324]

Fair enough, though that does limit potential strategy for town fakeclaiming (which is already severely limited but eh). I was thinking it could limit scum fakeclaims too but since they could just ask the mod it doesn't really make a difference.

[Infinity 324]

I personally feel I'd be actually giving specialized information if I give our variants on what I have and what I don't.

The only exception to that is something that actually is affecting the game or if I'm clarifying a player's role. Like about the executioner, it wasn't a straight executioner. It's a non-consecutive executioner. If a variant exists that needs to be explained, I'll explain it. If someone asks about a hypothetical, I will go off the Wiki and just be a facilitator of knowledge, but I don't want to give specialized information to any undeserving.

What do you mean by this?