Mini 1826: The Purge - Game Over

[Infinity 324]

Holy shit.

I caught up over the night phase, I'll post my thoughts in a few hours.

[Infinity 324]

I barricaded as well btw.

I'm actually fine with peregrine barricading but I'm not as fine with his play overall. I'll talk about that more when I do my reads list.

[Infinity 324]

Not gonna waste time on a readslist that is just gonna change when the masons claim. I'm gonna do a decently in-depth one later tonight.

Top scumspects are pere, MoI, and shadow, though MoI is pretty much null for me. Can't read him for my life.

[Infinity 324]

There pretty much should be absolutely no voting.

Shooters do not reveal targets yet, just shot or barricade.

I'm interested in why on both of these as well.

Not gonna waste time on a readslist that is just gonna change when the masons claim. I'm gonna do a decently in-depth one later tonight.

Top scumspects are pere, MoI, and shadow, though MoI is pretty much null for me. Can't read him for my life.

You can still have a reads list even if it's going to change. Also, why are you saying MoI is a scumspect and in the very next breath saying you can't read him?

P-Edit:

I didn't say they shouldn't claim at all, I said they shouldn't claim early. Scum have to spread themselves thinner trying to make up reasons for 4 town to try and strand rather than 2.

I can still make a reads list if people really want, but I don't want to put a lot of effort into something that might have to be changed. I'm not super confident in my reads right now, so I wouldn't be shocked if 1 or even 2 of my scum pool ended up being masons.

MoI is a PiE read. I have a hard time seeing pisskop and especially realeo or lane as scum.

[Infinity 324]

Lane, come on dude. Town try to cooperate with their scumreads all the time, not only because they might be wrong but because the interaction will help the sorting.

[Infinity 324]

I've never seen scum fake that.

[Infinity 324]

So... You're town reading him for it?

The actio itself is NAI. Maybe slightly towny since scum would be more likely to just push mis-strands here.

[Infinity 324]

Lane, come on dude. Town try to cooperate with their scumreads all the time, not only because they might be wrong but because the interaction will help the sorting.

I've never seen scum fake that.

Cause it seems like you're town reading Realeo, and aren't considering Realeo/perev scum. It'd be easier if you had your reads out

I suppose it could be SvS, but it really doesn't feel like that to me. Scum usually don't openly buddy each other like that.

[Infinity 324]

W/e, I'll just start working on my reads list now.

[Infinity 324]

Oh man we're gonna have problems

You think real is

trying

to look scummy?

[Infinity 324]

Lane I think you're conf biased as fuck here.

[Infinity 324]

My first impression scums are {pisskop,Kuroi,Shaddowez}

pisskop and Kuroi are legit accusations. Shadowez is more to least town lean.

Time travel to the end and see if I get 3of3

Spoiler: PS:

This is a serious accusation. Obviously, I will re-evaluate my analysis, but this is a serious accusation. Also obviously, this comes from guts. =D

You guys always want to make glass etchings in the sand

I'm just trying to make a serious analysis.

Normally, I fancy a good RVS. But I can't do that in this game.

If you meta me, you will understand that my big guns are POE, voting pattern analysis, and night kill analysis.

VPA is going to be not that substantial since plurality vote is not necesarily a lynch. The context and the risk is different.

NKA is going to be not that substantial since everyone can litteraly commit that kill.

So my only big gun is POE, and I do POE by trying to catch people's logic. If the logic clops, then I can mark you as town, hence the POE.

I can't catch yours, pisskop.

Myeah, the meta check out. You pretty much roll like that.

Argument out of the window, then.

Let me explain something because my initial fos actually generates controversy. It is meant to be harmless guess.

I tried to make first reaction mafia post back in Open 648.

My first impression scum is {cytheflyguy,Franky}

Accuracy level : ????

And it generates quite a content. It's just meant to be a guess, not a push. I mean, I only used my voting power 4 pages later.

###

Back to this game. After the setup speculation, this game is slowing down, so I did that post. It's not a push, it's just a guess to advance the conversation. So for people who said that I'm trying too much, let me say two words, bitch plz.

Some of you are adamant to drive me nuts. Are we going to "just" discuss the mechanics of the night action, and not scum hunt? If that's the case, you can all strand me, and -being stranded- it will force one goon to shoot me, while strongman shoots someone else. That guarantees 2 scum NKs and no Town kills, and you can start over from scratch tomorrow.

If you're really that stressed, why don't you make a new topic? I did with Vedith.

Can we just, town, each town nominate three people that we want to kill and vouch that if we don't barricade, we will kill in the list.

Say, I nominate {Kuroi,Almost,MoI} just for illustration.

If I don't barricade, I vouch that I will kill in the list.

Obviously, if only person nominate a guy, that guy will not be shot, thus increasing the probability of a successful shot.

Less opportunity for Wifom.

Since when do you open clinic? What's that mean?

Open clinic = preaching like a shrink

You are the type of guy who stabs people and lynch them. You are a barbarian, not the Pope. This is new for me.

It'd be nice if we knew who the dead people shot, so we could maybe do NKA...

For example, it's likely that kraska shot nosf but we don't know.

[Infinity 324]

Spoiler: Realeo: strong town

My first impression scums are {pisskop,Kuroi,Shaddowez}

pisskop and Kuroi are legit accusations. Shadowez is more to least town lean.

Time travel to the end and see if I get 3of3

This is a town perspective.

So my only big gun is POE, and I do POE by trying to catch people's logic. If the logic clops, then I can mark you as town, hence the POE.

I can't catch yours, pisskop.

The logic here seems a bit simplistic, but I see a lot of people who scumhunt like this and the push on pisskop makes a lot of sense with this mindset.

Myeah, the meta check out. You pretty much roll like that.

Argument out of the window, then.

(and the whole discussion about the meta check)

I actually really liked this. Sometimes I like doing quick meta checks as town just to verify something or to get a general sense of a person's play. Also, it didn't really feel like it was for show. Countering your own push when you don't really need to doesn't seem like a play that makes sense as scum.

Back to this game. After the setup speculation, this game is slowing down, so I did that post. It's not a push, it's just a guess to advance the conversation. So for people who said that I'm trying too much, let me say two words, bitch plz.

Really feel this a town a lot. In RVS, I basically do everything I possibly can to get the game moving, and I get annoyed at people when they criticize that (remember princess bride, shadow/MoI)?

Some of you are adamant to drive me nuts. Are we going to "just" discuss the mechanics of the night action, and not scum hunt? If that's the case, you can all strand me, and -being stranded- it will force one goon to shoot me, while strongman shoots someone else. That guarantees 2 scum NKs and no Town kills, and you can start over from scratch tomorrow.

If you're really that stressed, why don't you make a new topic? I did with Vedith.

Feels like town LAMIST to me. "Hey look, I'm trying to do stuff guys" in a subtle way like this doesn't seem like a scum tactic to me.

Can we just, town, each town nominate three people that we want to kill and vouch that if we don't barricade, we will kill in the list.

Say, I nominate {Kuroi,Almost,MoI} just for illustration.

If I don't barricade, I vouch that I will kill in the list.

Obviously, if only person nominate a guy, that guy will not be shot, thus increasing the probability of a successful shot.

Less opportunity for Wifom.

Good plan, those are more likely to come from town.

You are the type of guy who stabs people and lynch them. You are a barbarian, not the Pope. This is new for me.

This is a subtle thing that I doubt scum would pick up on and point out.

Im glad vedith gets it right
Going to stop answering this thing, lol
I am wasting my time here.

We need to start the actual scumhunting part of the day

, for that we need the lurkers to not lurk.

Should we start rvs?

We can leave realeo and pisskop aside lol

Pedit: what the fuck do you want,Jesus.

This is like a self-declaration of "I am the scum who never scumhunt." I mean really? You're saying that "I am town who never finds scum-hunting is not important during the first 20 pages?" Finally, you scum flail.

VOTE: shos

Doesn't make much sense to me, but I don't think scum would try to throw out wild accusations like "you scumclaimed!!!". Scum want to make their arguments sound reasonable and intelligent.

Vedith has requested replacement

Goddamit. I intentionally stop talking to see Vedith in action.

Again, shows town mindset

I know, obvious to most of you, but since PoE factors pretty heavily into my reads I gotta start with my townreads.

(sorry for so many other quotes in my previous post)

[Infinity 324]

I think he only mentioned your name because you were the one that asked the strongman question.

Why so defensive?

[Infinity 324]

Nope, sorry

[Infinity 324]

Well there's this thing called scumhunting...

[Infinity 324]

If I was scum, I would still be townreading you since you'd be an impossible lynch.

Don't focus on the read, focus on the reasoning.

[Infinity 324]

impossible strand*

PEdit: why do you say MoI strongman in particular

PEdit 2: the motive would be to not look stupid/to not try and push a lynch I can't justify.

[Infinity 324]

Well maybe. I'm not gonna argue i'm scum but I'm just saying I would probs be townreading him if I was scum too.

[Infinity 324]

Sorry if I'm being dumb, but why can strongman!MoI claim that?

[Infinity 324]

@Infinity: If he's strongman, he know he is not shot since strongman doesn't have barricade.

But that assumes gonn!MoI would barricade. Since he's so widely townread, I doubt that.

[Infinity 324]

What reads are those?

[Infinity 324]

Spoiler: Pisskop: leaning town

we only needs 3 people to kill a player. hands down.
o
f 1 scum is in any group he cant save a buddy because the 2 tiwnies will shoot him.
2 scum in any group would be suspicious if their publically stated target dies

nobody has to vote with their masob buddy, and my plan isno worse than any organized attempt to kill people.
better in fact

Not the way I think scum would bring up a plan.

I think they would either try to force their plan on town or sit back and let town do it for themselves.

im glad were fingering perv.

i think his lack of contents is bad. now that we are out of that fog we can all discuss it and post

vote it with me.

do not allow to make votes he doesnt have to substantiate tomorrow.

.
his vote was made so that when called to task for it he an shrug his shoulders and say he made it because of the plan.

which, coupled with earlier crumbs of shade and his refusal to vote earlier when asked, speak of scum

Im kind of leaning scum on [kraska]

Lazy scumreads -_-

Though I think pere has a good chance of being scum here.

fuck meta, his aggression andconfidence imdicates he shoupd be competent, but his case on shos is stall post rvs strength

Non-lazy scumread. I disagree with the reasoning, but it seems like a town mindset.

you think im trying to look scummi

the very fact that im not trying to control the game is a towntell.

scunkop would want to cooperate at full steam with such an easy request as reads

hell, i am suspecting most scum woul
which is why i dont accord value to people (perv) who demand a structure and dont share viable or 'genuine' conversations

Overdefensiveness, already mentioned this

Wait.


Before we go to night. I am going to shoot shos.

If shos doesnt die its because I didnt shoot him.


anyone shooting him will be wasting their bullet and thus be an antitown ass. Im fairly suspected anyway so OHWELLS

Actually, this is the main thing that pisskop has going for him. It forces his team to waste a shot on shos that another townie would easily do, just for the towncreds.

Masons should claim so we can move on.

My reads havent changed form yesterday

oh wells. Im not playing

Blatantly being antitown...he's done this the whole game. Tends to be a towntell for me.

[Infinity 324]

Whoever hasn't yet, just state your top scumreads and action last night, even if you think it's pointless. We need to get this game moving.

[Infinity 324]

Why does someone being scum make it less likely for town to shoot them

[Infinity 324]

I'm trying to work with you here but it's hard to see your logic.

[Infinity 324]

I get what you're saying, I've been in that position before too. Happens quite a bit to me actually.

[Infinity 324]

What could I do to help you feel better about me being town? Or is it just a PoE thing?

[Infinity 324]

Do you think MoI's reads were influenced by setup spec?

I'm interested why you townread MoI. Everything I've seen from him so far I've also seen from his as both town and scum.

PEdit: lol lane I'm trying to find scum it's just important to be townread too. Especially in lylo.

[Infinity 324]

Not all of it has to do with scumhunting, if that's what you're asking. There's

-Being transparent with your thought process and showing genuine reasoning
-How you interact with your townread as well as your
-Other miscellaneous ways you approach the game that don't have scum motivation.

[Infinity 324]

@pisskop I assume you still have scumreads on myself and MoI?

If so, why haven't you been pushing those reads

[Infinity 324]

Not all of it has to do with scumhunting, if that's what you're asking. There's

-Being transparent with your thought process and showing genuine reasoning
-How you interact with your townread as well as your
-Other miscellaneous ways you approach the game that don't have scum motivation.

I'm having problem what do you post this. Granted, I see no scum motivation, but neither does town motivation.

It was a response to lane

[Infinity 324]

Can you at least give cursory lip service to my towncase on real?

[Infinity 324]

Can you just state your top 3 scumreads -_-

[Infinity 324]

Why?

[Infinity 324]

Can you at least give cursory lip service to my towncase on real?

Do you want me to say that I generally don’t give much attention at all to Town-cases especially with no flipped scum?

Sure

Also question – do you have any experience with Scum Realeo? Because you acknowledge that you understand the concept that meta reviews must make use of both sides at 1191 in regards to me.

It's not a meta argument.

Don’t see why what you quoted isn’t easily replicable as scum …

You could say that for most towntells, but it's just unlikely that scum would both think to do that exact thing and have the confidence to pull it off believably.

This sentence basically says nothing concrete about his alignment but something about his playstyle which is NAI.

Being scum will inherently affect the way people bring up accusations and the way they play the game in general-- the scumhunting playstyle shining through here indicates he's genuinely scumhunting imo.

Also unsure that what you boil down to “Why would scum back off when they find they might have made a mistake?” which is what any smart scum does. So pretty NAI to me.

I don't think that scum would think they made a mistake there. It's actually quite easy for scum to continue a push on someone who's being blatantly anti-town.

Question on this – why should I remember Princess Bride vis-a-vie your thoughts on RVS when IIRC you replaced a slot Day 2?

Nope, I was in the game from the start. I guess you don't remember it

There is no such thing a Town LAMIST. The fact that you are trying to peddle what ostensibly should be a sign of scum trying too hard makes my head spin here.

I LAMIST as town all the time

Pointing out your contributions to getting the game going is a natural human thing to do. Like 'ha, I'm being productive!'.

Um, whut? The thing you are quoting makes very, very little sense and trying to ascribe that only Town can be perceptive is bad.

In general, scum doesn't really care enough to try to go deep and pick out small things just to look town. With how town tends to play, it's easy enough to look town without doing that.

Have you ever played with Fate? Katsuki? Camn? This is trying to ascribe playstyle to an alignment and is bad.

It's certainly not intentionally playing dumb, if that's what you're trying to say.

I'm making a general comment about scum strategy on this site in my experience, of course there are going to be exceptions, but any tell has exceptions.

That pile of posting leads to a strong Town read for you on Realeo?

Yes

I don't want to get into a long argument, but I didn't like how you just straight ignored it originally.

[Infinity 324]

Whats his scum motivation?

Scum motivation for what?

[Infinity 324]

What are you talking about

[Infinity 324]

I have townreads on a bunch of other people. There's your 'scum motviation'

I'm actually curious though cause I can't read that guy for my life

[Infinity 324]

I think it's time for the masons to claim.

[Infinity 324]

I'm not a mason obv

[Infinity 324]

Sorry about not being here yesterday. If people want me to continue my readslist so they can see my thought process, I'm fine with that, but I don't see much of a point otherwise...

1. shadow
2. MoI
3. Lane

[Infinity 324]

Me and realeo

[Infinity 324]

strongman*

No, I really don't have anything else to contribute.

[Infinity 324]

Apparently, even if the topic of the conversation is not setup spec, the way of how the dynamic works is contra plan v pro plan and prop plan v abstain.

Contra plan : MOI, Shadow, pisskop, Realeo

I don't remember actually being against the plan - I don't think I spoke out about it much at all, actually.

Did you scumread lane at the end of the game, or like my case, towny but null, when the death people are removed, he is at the bottom of the list?

Yes, lane is mostly a PoE read right now.

shaddow, you think lane is town?

youve gotta come contribuite here

Early in D1 I was townreading lane based on a specific action. Currently there are 4 people left, 3 of which have to be scum. I'm convinced that MoI and Infinty are both scum, so realeo/lane are both PoE. If I had to vote one of the two of them right now, it'd probably be lane. Realeo seems to be trying to actually figure out motivations a bit more.

Who townreads this guy

[Infinity 324]

Why would it hurt town to be as clear as possible

[Infinity 324]

I'm the town strongman

[Infinity 324]

Seriously, why can't lane and shadow be scum together

[Infinity 324]

What?

First of all scumbuddy interactions don't change much based on the timing of them; they're mainly for when people look back after someone has already flipped scum.

I think what happened was that lane pushed on shadow to make it look like he was scumhunting and to group shadow with the townies he was pushing. He turned out to be wrong, and shadow didn't want to call attention to the fact that it was suspicious/he didn't think he needed to.

[Infinity 324]

I think we should focus on stranding scum as opposed to specifically the strongman. I'm not sure why MoI doesn't think shadow is the strongman, but I think in general it's hard to distinguish between strongman and non-strongman scum play. If we try and get too clever, we may just end up stranding town which will probably make us lose.

[Infinity 324]

Derp, gotcha

[Infinity 324]

I understand why he thinks that, obviously I think he's making shit up.

[Infinity 324]

What?

First of all scumbuddy interactions don't change much based on the timing of them; they're mainly for when people look back after someone has already flipped scum.

I think what happened was that lane pushed on shadow to make it look like he was scumhunting and to group shadow with the townies he was pushing. He turned out to be wrong, and shadow didn't want to call attention to the fact that it was suspicious/he didn't think he needed to.

1. I disagree. I find it that mafia get manipulative in their reaction as time goes on. "Time around RVS" is when you get "pure" reaction. As game progress, it will be harder to differ buddying, scum butting each other, or town cross-checking. Remember that (from time stamp) that this exchange is around ~ 2 days from game start.

2. It will be easier to just ignore lane altogether insteaf of defending it. Lane got his hand dirty. Why Shadow has to join the dirty club?

1. Never seen the phenomenon you talk about here.

2. Honestly I don't think it was that scummy of a push, so I think it was fine to defend it. Don't you?

[Infinity 324]

[quote="In [url=http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 5#p8349915]post 1374[/url], Realeo"][quote="In [url=http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 1#p8349881]post 1372[/url], Infinity 324"]1. Never seen the phenomenon you talk about here.

2. Honestly I don't think it was that scummy of a push, so I think it was fine to defend it. Don't you?[/quote]

1. So it doesn't happen in mafiascum.net? It happens a lot in my playing group. At the beginning, people are chillin' out. As game progress, bussing and buddying at its maximum. You can't really pick up true intention except on early phase.

2. If shadow is town? Sure. If shadow!scum and lane!scum, easier to just ignore it.[/quote]

1. Not really, bussing and buddying usually start early on d1.

2. If it isn't suspicious, why not defend your partner there?

[Infinity 324]

Scum want to strand town, not the strongman.

[Infinity 324]

Someone's gonna shoot the stranded, lol

PEdit: ok, why does it make a huge difference?

[Infinity 324]

Someone's gonna shoot the stranded, lol

PEdit: ok, why does it make a huge difference?

1. Oh really? If this is D1, hell ya! Masons definitely will use their killing power to hunt barricading scum. You really think that the remaining two will shot the stranded? How do you coordinate it?

2. Because shadow has to be mindful with association guilty if any of them flips.

1. Only one of them has to do it...

2. Yeah, but this is a small one and could easily be a oversight. Maybe he thought he could help lane out. In any case, not a strong negative association.

[Infinity 324]

1. But the person is stranded because people think that person is scum...if the masons think there's a danger of the stranded player not being shot they'll split their shots and shoot him themselves.

2. But that assumes lane would flip scum when, if anything, shadow would probably flip first. Also scum make small mistakes like that all the time.

[Infinity 324]

If MoI wants to bus shadow, I'll let him. I'll take the risk that shadow is the strongman which is wine anyway.

VOTE: shadow

[Infinity 324]

Stranding the strongman is a lot better than stranding town

How many different ways do I have to say the same thing

[Infinity 324]

Would you guys be willing to vote MoI?

I'm ok with voting lane but it might be realeo/shadow/MoI and PoE is the only thing that makes me think lane is scum.

[Infinity 324]

Not voting for shaddowez.

[Infinity 324]

Not voting for shaddowez.

The fact that you aren't even trying to get them to look at Shaddow is the important point.

If you were Town and so dead-sure that Shaddow is scum (and everything you claim as your reads says he is) I'd expect maybe you'd try to convince the Masons onto your wagon of choice.

But you aren't even in the slightest.

Instead you look to derail the Lane wagon they are starting. Onto a wagon with zero current votes as opposed to the wagon you are currently voting with 2 votes.

Scum with Lane and Shaddow as I concluded earlier ...

I can't be bothered. With their play so far it'll probably just be unnecessary work trying to convince them. I don't really care if we strand someone who has a 90% chance of being scum instead of a 95% chance. The fact that you're trying to stretch that stupid thing into something scummy goes beyond your usual stretchiness and is pretty scummy in and of itself.

[Infinity 324]

VOTE: MoI

[Infinity 324]

if the masons voted MoI or shadow, I would gladly vote with the masons...

[Infinity 324]

intent

lol@MoI claiming I'm somehow avoiding "bussing" shadow

My vote on him was mainly for show

[Infinity 324]

Should I just hammer or

[Infinity 324]

Nope scum want town stranded

I don't get how this is relevant

[Infinity 324]

Shadow is the only person I'm sure is scum. If he's strongman, so be it. Whether or not scum decide to bus their strongman is wine anyway, especially with how much you guys have been discussing it.

Just wondering if there's any night-action-related things it would be worth it to discuss atm.

[Infinity 324]

Fuck it

VOTE: shadow

No point in coordinating past the masons anyway.

[Infinity 324]

There was nothing more productive we were going to get out of this day

[Infinity 324]

what part of

Lets not vote with scum because they will strand town or the strongman was too fucking hard to get?

It's just wine at this point. Scum could bus goons to make it look like they're the strongman.

Shadow is 110% scum. If he's strongman at least that's not town.

[Infinity 324]

My join date is before yours, bitch

[Infinity 324]

lol

Being blatantly antitown as scum is fun

[Infinity 324]

I definitely learned something in terms of scumhunting this game too. Actually that was the main thing I learned.

Tryhard =/= town

[Infinity 324]

I can't really comment on the setup from that game since town basically collapsed in on itself

Generally the setup seems somewhat balanced to me but I really wouldn't know

[Infinity 324]

It was a cool idea, I thought the theorizing we needed to do was interesting. I can't Daugherty way the setup played out made for an exciting game.

[Infinity 324]

But that's more a problem with luck or swinginess of the setup if anything. So other than the swinginess it's a fun setup I think.

[Infinity 324]

Damn. I'm sorry a50
I almost no actioned because I couldn't decide between you and Moi. But then shot you last minute
I'm guessing piss is strong man?

SIX townies down, all of whom are TOWN??!! Certainly not your fault. WE collectively made VERY bad reads.

I shot infinity, for what it's worth. Thought Vedith replace out maybe a tactic to deter people from shooting the slot while in replacement phase. I knew if they were town they would have to barricade since they wouldn't know whom to aim for.

Lol, exactly the opposite

If I was town I'd have figured saving myself wasn't really worth it since I'd just be shot by town a different night. Also I read the thread so I had scumreads...

[Infinity 324]

Yeah just goes to show how swingy it is.

[Infinity 324]

Lane gets stranded --> masons shoot me, MoI shoots lane, scum kill the masons.

Possible town win

[Infinity 324]

But me and lane should've cced masons and that would've fucked things up

But we didn't

[Infinity 324]

Talking about what would've happened in this game.

I thought MoI scumread lane, and said he would shoot any one of his scumreads that was stranded.

Anyway in a different case it might have been good to gambit, but not when the masons would be possible lynchbait.

[Infinity 324]

Town!me would've switched to lane if shadow had claimed mason

Hell, even scum!me would've

[Infinity 324]

Town!me would've switched to lane if shadow had claimed mason

Hell, even scum!me would've

Why would you do that when you could picked a vanity wagon, not hammered shaddow, and he would have been stranded anyway?

Because he'd be confirmed town so everyone would invite him...

[Infinity 324]

unvote*

[Infinity 324]

This is what happens when town shits itself and refuses hard to cooperate with each other D1 :/