Mini 1730: Suikoden U-Pick GAME OVER

[Klingoncelt]

Klingoncelt had unexplained vote on Ranger and was scum.

I explained it a lot.

But the true reason was that no way in hell would I go with any Town gambits.

[Klingoncelt]

And the kills were all aimed at the strongest players/PRs.

[Ranger]

I'm probably going to go ahead with the Steven Universe Prequel game first.

I'll let some other players have the glory for that game. I wanna play the Parasyte game, so I'll just wait.

Thanks for your thoughts though, more people should do what you just did

That's why I did it. :P

And as an added note, if I'm not mistaken you're pretty much brand new here (but not to forum mafia), but you're p good.

Thanks for the compliment! I am indeed new here (as my join date shows), but not to forum mafia. I don't really consider myself a newb as a result. I'll try not to disappoint people in future games. (Assuming I even live, that is. For some

mysterious

reason, I'm increasingly finding myself an early nightkill. :P)

[Elbirn]

Okayokay

I can make room in my life for *one* more game. But 2 games is my limit from now on.

Sooo I'll in for steven u prequel ^^

[Elbirn]

@Ranger: lucky you, I've been here over a year and I've been night killed ONCE. By varsoon oddly enough.

Feels bad, it's like what I'm so bad no one wants me dead? *sigh*

[Drixx]

@Titus - Cerberus and I do a lot of talk with each other when we play as Reasonably Rational, and both of us are always trying to get better. You should always keep in mind that we might be running a gambit (regardless of alignment).

We basically assumed that KlingonCelt was better than to make a claim that would make her look super guilty so we discounted (but didn't discard) her as a scum candidate. We spent the extra time to try and figure out a way to leave a plan for a 100% win chance. In Steven Universe we actually achieved a 100% win chance but a town player bucked and ruined it. In this game, the only way we could get close was to ensure the scum felt obligated to keep killing (a no kill would have hurt every plan we came up with) and then rely on our certainty that FireKari was town and that Suzanne was town and would use her ability to ensure at least one Mason made it to LYLO (at worst case).

So the questioning Varsoon about happily ever after was purely an attempt to make the last remaining scum feel obligated to kill and short of perfect play by the scum, we were pretty sure our plan would result in a town win no matter what. We worked hard at it, even though we both had a hard time getting together (end of semester for me, Fallout 4 for him).

That's just how we are though. We both feel like signing up for a game is a commitment to the rest of the players who signed up that we will put our best effort into it.

[Suzune]

Drixx, i find it interesting that you think I sound motherly. In most of my recent games everyone says I am too stiff and cold that it puts them on edge. So I am interested in the fact that I got such a different read then usual.

[Drixx]

To me you always come across as pleasant and warm. You are always polite, never seem to get irritated or angered by even the most unpleasant things that occasionally happen in games, and you are consistently pleasant towards everyone. If someone is reading you as stiff or cold, that is probably more about how they are putting their own assumptions onto the text than you. I am horrible at reading tone in text, so if I find you consistently warm and engaging, I should think most people would see it much more strongly than I do.

It's always a pleasure to play with you.

[LicketyQuickety]

^^^

[PokerFace]

My thoughts. (Some of this is from dead thread)

I played bad this game. Got swamped at work. And when I finally got freetime, the thread had more pages and noise on day 1 than any game I have ever been in. If I was not a hydra I would have replaced out

One of the most fun games I ever played was Cowboy Bebop Mafia where Xtoxm and I were masons together. Xtoxm and I were scum together in Space Dandy Mafia.
(Cowboy Bebop, Space Dandy, Samurai Champloo were all made by same Anime Studio)

Xtoxm and I didn't get a lot of time to play together in Space Dandy Mafia. We thought it would be good to play together, and our playstyles would benefit each other, if we hydraed as town in a game. EXCEPT we didn't roll town here

Sorry I couldn't help you out much day 1, LQ. I really wish scum had Day Talk.

I made two posts in game. Xtoxm made the rest

I got demoralized by how long the game was and kept on procrastinating. I consider that bad scum play on my part, but seriously no game should have 63 pages for its day 1. I really would have replaced out if I was not a hydra

If I was a town vigilante I would have killed Jeanne just so she would stop posting. Even though she was town, I would have done it because she was making my eyes bleed every time I tried to read the thread

Yay we had pre game talk and talk during the first 24 hours of day 1. Varsoon does love scum day talk and so do I. Its a very good scum tool. If we had it I could have stopped LQ from not knowing what AUA means. But we didn't have it at time he made that slip. Reading rules and the first post example role pm is what all players should do before every game they play.

I honestly do not think LQ was rolefishing. But I did see how his question could be seen as rolefishing. I am the guy that coined the term neighbors in the first place. I suggested using that name in that thread and it spread like wild fire!

I suggested to LQ in the scum day talk thread that jeanne could be a neighbor and that LQ should have just dropped his inquiry of Jeanne early on day 1. Defending himself saying he was not rolefishing was a mistake. Whenever someone accuses you of role fishing,

regardless of what your alignment is

, stop doing it! Even if that's not what you were trying to do, you should stop doing whatever it was you were doing! If you are town, you risk outing roles further by defending yourself or continuing to fish. And if you are scum, you are gonna get caught. Just wagon them if you want someone to out their role, wagon them. Getting someone to L-1 and getting a claim is the best way to fish and get away with it!

Game was fairly balanced. I think only thing it would have needed to be perfectly balanced was for scum to have day talk
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 7#p7398867
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 1#p7402021

RR and wguerts being masons kinda sucked, I would have liked to lynch one or both of them for being associated with LQ but since they claimed masons and pistach checked them, that wasn't gonna happen

I do not believe Brantz's role to be an instance of bastard modding. I rather like his role a lot and here is why:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 3#p7407723
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 3#p7407743
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 3#p7407903
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 5#p7408385

Kling's no kill gambit was interesting but I think it would have been a lot better to kill one of the masons and act like she got blocked. She should have tried to scum hunt more on last day than defend herself

I am fine with the scum PT being public. There's honestly not that much in there since we only had night talk

gg wp all. Thanks for the game varsoon

[PokerFace]

@varsoon,

scum had a lot of ways to survive night kills. Town did not have alot of ways to make them. Why?

Kling had a strongman kill and unless I read things wrong, town did not have a lot of that. Why?

Only benefit I can see off hand was if the strongman had been lynched first, the mafia doc could claim doc and be seen as more likely town due to the mafia strongman. And I am not big on that benefit since it could involve the doc busing the strongman

[Varsoon]

I'm always happy to have you play, PokerFace. You're very invested and offer a lot of valuable feedback. I think you're a fun player.

To get to your questions:
-Scum's flavor allowed for it and I was curious what a scumteam with more than one protective claim would do with those claims. I wanted the scum team to have, perhaps, the added paranoia of lots of kills being flung around when the reality was that there would only be the one vig kill, if that. Maybe it was also me subconsciously making the vigilante shot be nothing but negative town utility. Regardless, there was a little town paranoia after those flips.

-This plays back into my earlier comment. Yes, Kling's strongman was only really effective against the one-shot (possibly refillable) doctor shot town had. The idea behind that was threefold; I wanted scum to have one kill they could have some confidence in, I wanted scum to be able to shut down a refill-the-doc strategy town came up with, and I wanted there to be reasonable WIFOM if Kling flipped early, as it would give more 'town' credence to the scum protective claims.


Hope that makes sense.

[Varsoon]

I think my primary goals in setup design (after making sure it would fit the flavor) were to ensure that town's roles were independently weak (except masons, imo) but that they would gain strength if used in clever and synergistic ways. I also wanted to give the scumteam what seemed like a strong set of protective roles for a variety of reasons (most of which I have already outlined), especially to give a false sense of town's actual strength.

[Titus]

Klingoncelt had unexplained vote on Ranger and was scum.

I explained it a lot.

But the true reason was that no way in hell would I go with any Town gambits.

Post flip yeah but the Ranger thing came out of left field prewar.

If you wanted to fuck with my plan, bussing LQ would have been the move. :-p

[Titus]

I think my primary goals in setup design (after making sure it would fit the flavor) were to ensure that town's roles were independently weak (except masons, imo) but that they would gain strength if used in clever and synergistic ways. I also wanted to give the scumteam what seemed like a strong set of protective roles for a variety of reasons (most of which I have already outlined), especially to give a false sense of town's actual strength.

I have to say that I was happy with my role, although I was the closest thing to a VT. It was on the surface anti-town as fuck, but allowed town scheming Titus to be really pro town. Very me, and that's what I asked for.

[Yukari]

What was ascetic meant to counter?

[Suzune]

It seems like it would have hurt the town no matter how I used it. Therefore, I wonder if it was meant to mislead since there was no obvious roleblock that I would have to use it on and no scum had abilities I could block with it.

Imagine I would be unable to be invited ot the table or something because I used it...would that not get me instant lynched.

[Yukari]

Does anyone even use the Votecount links/Game Events tab in the first post?

Didn't share this during the game for some reason, but ya we likes the War Report. <3

@Ranger
Also, we think the ability you

described

could have been better utilized if you had not revealed.

Just felt like pointing out that we were suspicious of the Ranger claim, but we didn't think of Ranger as scum. For obvious reasons we avoided pointing this out, other than how we worded the above post. ^

[LicketyQuickety]

Klingoncelt had unexplained vote on Ranger and was scum.

I explained it a lot.

But the true reason was that no way in hell would I go with any Town gambits.

Post flip yeah but the Ranger thing came out of left field prewar.

If you wanted to fuck with my plan, bussing LQ would have been the move. :-p

Oddly enough, I suggested that I may need to be bussed when I was able to talk in the PT with my team.

[Suzune]

LQ you are usually so obviously townie to me. So when I was reading your posts and not feeling the town vibe, I started to worry. First, I thought you were just off your game, but when nothing happened later to change it. I began to get suspicious. Personally, I like townie LQ better.

[LicketyQuickety]

LQ you are usually so obviously townie to me. So when I was reading your posts and not feeling the town vibe, I started to worry. First, I thought you were just off your game, but when nothing happened later to change it. I began to get suspicious. Personally, I like townie LQ better.

I'll be the first to admit my scum game needs a lot of work, which I talked about a lot in the PT's.

[Drixx]

LQ you are usually so obviously townie to me. So when I was reading your posts and not feeling the town vibe, I started to worry. First, I thought you were just off your game, but when nothing happened later to change it. I began to get suspicious. Personally, I like townie LQ better.

I'll be the first to admit my scum game needs a lot of work, which I talked about a lot in the PT's.

Do you keep notes by hand or in a document when you play? The best way to play (as either alignment), imo, is to keep notes, and at the top you should have a section where you list what you know and how you know it. As scum you simply have to avoid ever revealing what you know because you are scum and otherwise play as you would as town. Every townie makes posts which can be legitimately pushed and viewed as scummy. A lot of town players intentionally add some scumminess to their town game for one reason or another, so that's what you can look for.

I used to feel I was a better player as scum than as town, but I've been working super hard on my town game for awhile now and I think I've now gotten better at town. I think the challenge of town is more appealing to me too ... more mystery to solve. Being informed means I have to practice spinning a convincing narrative and pull off getting town people lynched while appearing to be justified in believing they are scum. This takes a lot of thought and work ... apart even from the constant risk of revealing you know something you don't have any reason to know.

[Suzune]

I think it is a balance. Every time my I think my scum game is good, my town game suffers. If I think my town game is good, my scum game suffers. While there should be no difference between town and scum, there is. I'm sure you will master it LQ.

Right now I am on the side of a slightly better town game. I was able to sneak by everyone our last encounter in midnight sun, but I am not sure it was good scum playing that did it.

[LicketyQuickety]

LQ you are usually so obviously townie to me. So when I was reading your posts and not feeling the town vibe, I started to worry. First, I thought you were just off your game, but when nothing happened later to change it. I began to get suspicious. Personally, I like townie LQ better.

I'll be the first to admit my scum game needs a lot of work, which I talked about a lot in the PT's.

Do you keep notes by hand or in a document when you play? The best way to play (as either alignment), imo, is to keep notes, and at the top you should have a section where you list what you know and how you know it. As scum you simply have to avoid ever revealing what you know because you are scum and otherwise play as you would as town. Every townie makes posts which can be legitimately pushed and viewed as scummy. A lot of town players intentionally add some scumminess to their town game for one reason or another, so that's what you can look for.

I used to feel I was a better player as scum than as town, but I've been working super hard on my town game for awhile now and I think I've now gotten better at town. I think the challenge of town is more appealing to me too ... more mystery to solve. Being informed means I have to practice spinning a convincing narrative and pull off getting town people lynched while appearing to be justified in believing they are scum. This takes a lot of thought and work ... apart even from the constant risk of revealing you know something you don't have any reason to know.

No, I have never taken any notes for any mafia game I have ever played. perhaps I should start.

And that is the age old question isn't it? Would you prefer to be authentic in solving a game or would you rather have all the answers and find the appeal in faking it.

I think it is a balance. Every time my I think my scum game is good, my town game suffers. If I think my town game is good, my scum game suffers. While there should be no difference between town and scum, there is. I'm sure you will master it LQ.

Right now I am on the side of a slightly better town game. I was able to sneak by everyone our last encounter in midnight sun, but I am not sure it was good scum playing that did it.

Suzune, you are too kind saying it is something I will master. I consider masters to be of the highest esteem and an endeavor that requires a gigantic chunk of time dedicated to it. But perhaps... someday.

What you talk about is such of the evon flow of what you perceive and the projection of what others perceive in a truly dynamic change of information from a selection of a group of games. I agree fully with your conclusion.

[Suzune]

I have a high opinion of you LQ. I like your game. Therefore, I plan achievement for it.