NY 215: HMS Erebus - Game Over!

[Akarin]

I liked lapsa delay in voting me. Like he considered it for some time without doig first. Shows thoufht.

"Like" like makes them more likely town or just like in terms of thinking being something you like to see in people?

[Akarin]

more likely to be town

Okay, why?

[Akarin]

great entrance

Glad you liked it.

[Akarin]

So did you have that read on page 2 or did you arrive at it after going back to think about Lapsa (like in light of davesaz scumread?)

[Akarin]

I decided that Lapsa was probably scum and Popo town.

Is there a particular reason you think they can't be the same alignment?

I believe this because most scum will not make 98 since it limits their options by making any push on someone other than me in the future suspicious. It would be very odd for someone who really wants me policy lynched to vote another person and they would probably get lynched for not providing content in the late game.

I think it's ridiculous to think this will limit popopo's options voting for people in the future. You're taking this

way

too seriously and reading way too much into it. That said, I have no interest in lynching popopo right now.

However, Lapsa has mostly been wishy-washy in their voting and have changed their opinions with little reasoning involved. For instance, they seemed to suspect tictac or at the very least didn't like something he said in 53, then suddenly wanted me policy lynched in 73, only to later sheep someone else in 109. They've also made some shitposts like 162 and 181. Overall, they have only shaded people and voted for weak reasons.

I think these are basically facts, no one will disagree that Lapsa is being wishy-washy, the question is, is that scummy? I don't think this is enough of a reason to lynch him right now.

[Akarin]

they have been doing this all game so far. I don’t really have a read on them because the lack of content from both slots. I just refuse to be on a wagon with them until they either start playing correctly or gtfo

Isn't this basically a refusal to be on the lynch wagon? Because really, what are the chances neither Lapsa nor popopo are on the final wagon at some point?

[Akarin]

I put a lot of effort into that theory web.
You all suck.

It seems like an argument for generally lynching the most active players. Don't really agree but I liked the colors! They lined up nicely, it was very nice to look at.

[Akarin]

VOTE: Davesaz

[Akarin]

@Completly Trustworthy

I addressed your post that you wanted more people to look at. Comment?

[Akarin]

What exactly are you looking for from people in regards to your post 234?

[Akarin]

has not explained a single vote this game, this ends now

what an asinine vote

like the reasoning is self evident
it's a sheep

all of his votes are transparently policy or sheep

ok cool
still think it's not town

ok why

cause its not cause its not explained, which is literally why you voted.

so what is now the reason you think he's scum

He hasn't participated at all in discussion

It's like Gamma realized his vote on one of the people jumping on his wagon looked like a weirdly timed pressure vote and he had to turn it into a real read.

[Akarin]

I generally am a brickwall, but I'm trying to not be that way. I mean, dave posted how he can't read me because he can't tell whether my pushes are scummy or stupid.

People are usually as smart as they are. "Trying to be smarter" is not an endeavor I'd expect immediate results from. That town-gamma apparently succeeded is a feat that borders on the unbelievable and the observed phenomena could much easier be explained by him having informed POW.

wat?

It's unbelievable that a person aware of their weaknesses could improve on them, unless they are scum?

Like how does knowing who town is even relate to making less stupid pushes? Do we have some evidence that they're more accurate? Would you expect more accurate pushes from scum?

[Akarin]

I dunno, I’m inclined to think Scioness isn’t scum atm just because of how little resistance their wagon has right now.
Like it went from no one saying anything to everyone agreeing they aren’t doing anything and a good lynch.

what wagon?

"everyone" is all of me and two people, so your defense is a little weird

Well and tictac just said they think they are scum.
And everyone else hasn’t commented.

Scioness is right in that totally okay with lynching zone for me too. Not for any real reason other than absolutely no reason to think they're town. Is it that weird that most of the game thinks meh, likely enough to be scum that I'd be okay with it?

Like if Scioness is scum, are the partners going to come out with some big defense right now? Based on what?

[Akarin]

I'm not done with Lapsa, but we have a new winner for scummiest sheep.

VOTE: popopopopopopo

Why's this one the scummiest?

[Akarin]

@Scioness:

this akarin - tictac interaction is something

what is the something
i got the impression that you wanted to make it look like there was a something when really there was not a something

I want to know this too

[Akarin]

My reasoning on Davesaz:

Really thought I was going to get more flak from someone over that naked vote by the way.

post 111 kind of sets up a Lapsa read, gets some agreement from Io, then votes in post 136 based on another kind of minor post, saying it "deserves a push."

Then basically doesn't look too hard for scum in anyone else and more and more solid on Lapsa based on... what exactly?

In post 226 he says he's "looking for thought process" in Saudade but doesn't seem to have put any effort in looking at Lapsa's thought process.

I have asserted that Lapsa is looking for excuses to sheep, and doing nothing proactive.

Like, sure, Lapsa is sheeping, but he's not sheeping every vote. And not much in the way of excuses either.

Lapsa is scum. Why don't you see that? An answer would be appreciated.

Not town == scum.
Show me town in Lapsa and I'll consider going somewhere else.

Not solving -> scum. It's really an easy thing, don't see why we don't just lynch it.

And suddenly he's absolutely certain.

Sometimes he talks like he's looking at why bad play might be scum motivated or town motivated like in post 222. (He does come around to a scumread on CT based on a secret scumtell rather than anything he can point to so he can sort of agree with it while letting other people do the pushing.)

But with Lapsa, Dave is convinced he's scum based on sheeping. It feels like a lot of these are him doing what I assume must be his usual playstyle, but he's throwing that attitude out when it comes to Lapsa for some reason. Lapsa is "easy" indeed and Davesaz really wants to push that hard for some reason.

It's like he has one default approach for talking about the game, and a different approach when it comes to the wagon he's pushing here.

You know who isn't solving the game? Dave.

[Akarin]

Dead serious

[Akarin]

Oh lol I thought Akarin was going after me

I mean, I did think that section was quite scummy and I'm definitely considering you a good lynch, but my Dave read is stronger and more interesting to push I think. Plus some of the votes on you have been weird. *cough* tictac *cough*

[Akarin]

Serious question: what was Gamma's massive dramatic improvement?

[Akarin]

Buut, this read used to be "gut", and I really don't see what changed to give it reasoning.

It's a gut feeling
but there's a reason why I have that gut feeling
hopefully that makes sense

My gut reads are not at all like that. Comments on this from others please?

My gut reads that don't have reasons still have reasons, like meanie-pants=scum cat/anime avatar=town, "ur" instead of "your"=serial killer. I try to ignore these.

I feel like "gut" might be good cover for when it's a weak read and people will say your reasons are ridiculous, but there are always reasons.

vote:dave

i agree with akarin

Wow. Ya read the game in 3 minutes.
Wish I was that fast

popopo's reading the important parts

[Akarin]

As for my “dramatic improvement” that’s an overstatement firstly and secondly it was me not continuing to push something when I had been presented with a decent counter to my thinking.

That's it?

tictac please confirm

[Akarin]

Umlaut's vote was clearly a RVS joke based on how much I get wagoned/mislynched.

it's rather funny that anyone read anything into Umlaut's vote because it was clearly a RVS joke about how Umlaut (and almost everyone else) ends up voting mislynchbait me at some point.

Weird how Dave has brought this up twice since I started pushing him. One more time to really drill it in, marketing style.

[Akarin]

Yeah I don't like the waffling and fencesitting in post 601, good catch Dave.

[Akarin]

By definition all reasons are bad given I'm town.

TBH I don't even know if you've given a reason. I'm going to work. You can do us all a favor by enlightening me and the thread, or you can be an ass and make me look it up when I'm not working.
Guess which one I'm betting on.

But this is the basis for a scumread on Nos?

[Akarin]

Scioness:

@Scioness:

this akarin - tictac interaction is something

what is the something
i got the impression that you wanted to make it look like there was a something when really there was not a something

I want to know this too

[Akarin]

why did it take you 300 posts to ask though

That your answer?

[Akarin]

Hey Nos, do Garmr and you not get along like this usually?

(Also, I'll catch up on everything later tonight.)

[Akarin]

Hey, I was prodded, I'm not dead, sorry. Super busy tomorrow so may not be able to thoroughly catch up but plenty of time Tuesday so deadline shouldn't be a problem.

And I will for sure post something of substance tomorrow.

[Akarin]

I don't like how sci kinda side-pushes mala and was absent during the recent CT drama. Kinda thinking those are both mislynches rn.
Do wanna see daves CT-thing tho. I'll weep for my joke if it never sees proper context.

For a 'wagon with low resistance' Sci sure hasn't had many votes on her.
644 doesn't ring alarms for anybody? A me too to CTs nonsense? Conflicted reads and seeking to resolve them is a thing it makes sense to scumread?

can you stomach these snake tactics, liar?

UNVOTE:

This is the best post of the game so far.
I laughed for like half an hour.

"I don't like how sci kinda side-pushes mala and was absent during the recent CT drama. Kinda thinking those are both mislynches rn."

And tictac's 1139 about lynching garm, perf, mala.

So he thought CT & mala were mislynches and that I 'm scum for pushing them. In his 1139 he preferred garm over mala. So he scumreads me, garm, mala.

tictac you are candidate #1 if mala gets lynched and somehow flips town.

[Akarin]

I really don't like Dave there, seems very manipulative.

[Akarin]

Which makes me really prefer Mala to Performer, but not voting until I get around to reading everything.

[Akarin]

Like did anyone else have that "OMG Performer didn't know who they replaced, obviously made up reads before replacing in, LYNCH IT!!1!" response? I started to have that after reading the quote Dave pulled out. But in context it doesn't seem that weird.

How many votes is Performer at?

[Akarin]

Performer is L-2 I think

[Akarin]

Also have I played with you before? Your avatar and name seem familiar.

Just looked at your games: Mystery Mansion, I siteflaked and was replaced.

[Akarin]

Really confused about what the heck Lapsa is doing now, but I'm catching up.

I didn't know Dave had claimed vig, I just thought the interaction looked fishy, found the linked post, thought it was obviously from tictac about Scioness and thought Dave's quote made it look like Performer was confused about something that Performer wasn't really confused about in a manipulative way. So ISO and ctrl+f, I hadn't read the thread, as I actually said. I have no interest in lynching a Day 1 vig claim.

Gamma's vote after Performer swapped their read on me strikes me as suspicious.

But anyway, catching up and debating Mala and Performer.

[Akarin]

And it is just a bizarre feeling to be scumread for hypothetical future lurking and knowing my own work schedule.

[Akarin]

VOTE: Performer

I think that puts them both at L-2 actually.

[Akarin]

Here's a thing I had typed up for when someone asked me my reasoning. Wanted to see what Lapsa did if I didn't explain. Guess it doesn't matter now.

post 1066 is the one that really gets me, the scum theater comment specifically. Also with Scioness' weirdness about a "something" between me and tictac. Particularly post 651.

Mala's unvoting of Nos because of 2 null reads voting Nos still strikes me as totally bizarre, but I think it's more likely to be town bizarre. Wouldn't scumMala want to scumread them or have less of a weak/crazy reason for unvoting?

My big hesitation is actually Performer's weird push on me after I was prodded, I wonder if scum wouldn't worry about the OMGUS response. But then the Performer wagon is so

so

much better than the Mala wagon.

Plus it's interesting to see how people split between them.

[Akarin]

Lurking into deadline is a classic scum move.

Sure, but I had just been prodded, wanted to say something game-advancing rather than just "prod dodge." We still have plenty of time before deadline right now, and I have caught up. I'm saying it was weird that you were scumreading me for lurking into deadline before the fact and/or for knowing my own schedule and/or for telling people about it.

[Akarin]

Akarin...how much or how little fm experience do you have?

Not a lot, but some. Played a few games here before, a few games elsewhere, read a few more games. Don't see that it's particularly relevant, I'm neither a veteran nor a newbie. Does that somehow change your read?

[Akarin]

So wait, Performer was worried about a quickhammer in the same post as feeling fairly certain he would be vigged tonight? (Based on Mala flipping town I assume.)

[Akarin]

But hey, I'm dead tonight based on how night resolutions resolve so there's that.

Seems way more certain than

I was trying to point out what I saw in case I died, whether by a quick hammer or being vigged.

[Akarin]

Despite the weirdness around the wagon yesterday, Gamma's townpinging me like crazy today.

[Akarin]

why didn't you say my read on Tictac didn't progress naturally back on day 1 when I was actually pushing them?

What's this thing with questions having an expiration date?

[Akarin]

VOTE: davesaz

still don't like this vote on dave right after he claimed vig, Lapsa also was second to last to vote Mala, so they were safe from being the "hammer" vote
VOTE: Lapsa

Is there a reason Lapsa's vote on Dave strikes you as scummier than various other times Lapsa voted for people?

[Akarin]

If I vote Performer I put them at L-1 I think, not going to do that right now, but that's where my vote is, for the record.

Can't believe Dave didn't vig Performer either.

[Akarin]

I just start looking through some ISO's again and Akarin's 1162 is pretty weird as was their post calling Dave manipulative for claiming Vig.
Performer v Akarin does feel like TvS though.
I can't really tell which one is scum though since I can't actually get a solid reed on either, the push Akarin was making on Performer just does not feel like it was two scum buddies fighting.
This is mostly since Performer didn't seem to really care if Akarin voted him or not and if scum were going to start bussing then I would have expected Performer to at least try and make it look TvS and not SvS

Performer's fixation on tictac just feels too off for me to call Performer the definite town in this situation.
It just kind of feels like his only reason for voting him is his meta from two years ago and that tictac scum read him at some point.

I wasn't calling Dave manipulative for claiming vig, as we've gone over a couple times I didn't know Dave claimed vig at the time, thought he was scum for what

still

reads as a very manipulative post by Dave against Performer to me, the quote about Sci without the context.

Which I think was pretty clear in the context of that, but maybe

not

clear in the context of my ISO.
--

The logic here is weird, like looking through my ISO with a conclusion already in mind. And all this stuff about how Performer and I look like SvS but not really. Not voting for me but planting that thought.

And the way Performer is suspected but no commitment to a scumread, but no defense either.

If Performer flips scum, Io seems like a likely buddy.

[Akarin]

Ya............like I literally just explained.......Lapsa voted Dave after Dave claimed vig...

...

Yes, that is a thing that factually happened.

Why is that Lapsa's scummiest vote?

[Akarin]

Smacks Nos & Garmr's heads together

You two have already had this argument ad nauseam

Oh hell no. I’m not going to be on this wagon with both popo and lapsa. I might be okay with one, but not both.

UNVOTE: Nofs

do you scumread them or something?

Nope

, but they have been doing this all game so far. I don’t really have a read on them because the lack of content from both slots. I just refuse to be on a wagon with them until they either start playing correctly or gtfo

And we have proof it was NAI for Mala so now this is even more pointless.

[Akarin]

Don't make me get the rolling pin

[Akarin]

I had assumed that what I was informed about would flip with me too, although I don't think I would have done anything different if I'd known otherwise.

I know I said this in the Dead Thread, but I really liked the flavor!

Also, why did some people switch around and start scumreading me at a drop of a hat there anyway?

[Akarin]

The way vote counts were set up were convient for quick search but a head ache for vote count analysis.

If you look back on the game with the way you're doing VCA, do you get more accurate results than you'd expect at random here?

[Akarin]

Would you say I did well at being scum Garmr? I felt like I was really bad at looking like town throughout the game with so many people being suspicious of me.

I thought you did well, I was getting suspicious of you too, but you were further down the list as just a not-townread. My Night 1 investigation debate was between Saudade and Gamma (I was ruling out anyone I thought Dave might vig), my Night 2 was between Purr and Saudade.

I was sure Performer and then Hugo would be the vig targets...

[Akarin]

Could I have crumbed Gamma any more subtly and still had people get it? Or is anything sufficiently obvious that town can't talk themselves out of believing it so obvious it will get you shot?

[Akarin]

@Performer: I didn't have all

that

strong a scumread on you Day 2, you were just the most informative lynch in terms of whether scum were worried about diverting people onto Mala over you or not, plus your fatalism at the end of Day 1 sounded like scum who had given up to me more than town who had given up, plus suspicion of scioness. definitely wanted you dead this game, like if you were in LYLO I'd vote you then so probably best to see that flip, and likewise I'd NEVER NK you if I were scum.

But yeah, in the grand scheme of things I think Hugo was scummier, and I was debating voting there on Day 2.

[Akarin]

Not sure tbh. I was juggling around a alternative scum team that consisted of ,hugo,purr through with ct and nos being interchangeable as the last members. But ditched it because lapsa and tic tacs syncronization and lapsa muddying the slot if we had a extra day I might of jumped on the alternative scum team theory.

I'm just thinking it keeps being a thing that people seem to put a lot of work into to wind up with garbage results that don't seem better than noise to me.

Also I keep reading these effort VCA things as good technobabble to cover having whatever opinions you want as scum, but they keep coming from town.

[Akarin]

Sorry

[Akarin]

Although I never actually voted for you Day 2, so actually not my fault :p