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That Layla wagon is yuck. Really can't see how anyone could find anything remotely AI in Layla's vote or her responses. Don't really get why if Norwegian was so sure only scum would make the RVS vote Layla made that she'd just drop it after a single conversation with Layla, only to pick it up again right when Gamma voted there. Reads pretty cowardly. Luca is the most towny out of his wagon for his probing of Tea since those were the same questions I was thinking about asking, though it's not that strong.
I like my vote on Tea atm. It's very weird how the first post of theirs page 3 was them criticizing those on the Norwegian wagon yet at the end of the page they take almost a completely opposite stance by defending the wagon started by him/Gamma. #74 especially implies they're scum-reading Norwegian now (why would he breath a "sigh of relief" at the Layla wagon as town?) yet they still hasn't voted anyone, which combined with their inconsistent posts makes it seem like they're afraid of taking a definite stance.-
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Furthermore, I don't really see how Layla didn't do this? I mean she certainly didn't back down and say "nvm, guess my RVS vote was bad after all" and was pretty insistent on sticking by it, so this post also confuses me.In post 72, Tea wrote:Really not sure why you didn't double down on your RVS vote and just say "Hey, it's RVS"-
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In post 52, Gamma Emerald wrote:The problem is your explanation explains nothing regarding the reason you were poked about it. How does deciding your RVS pre-game affect your given logic?
Also I legitimately can't understand either of these posts Gamma's made, or why he's so insistent on questioning Layla on her RVS vote to this extent in the first place. Just reads like a bunch of gibberish to me.In post 58, Gamma Emerald wrote: Even if you do that, there’s the chance you may change it. And having to explain away an exclusion like that looks scummy.-
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In post 233, Wake1 wrote: Before I post my reads I have a question because it's not clear: are we dealing with more than one Scum faction? Because the way I read it in the OP it feels like there being two Scum factions is definitely possible.
Pretty sure it's only one scum faction given the wording. Scum being defined as having "more than one player" is especially noteworthy, and it makes me think there might be a serial killer. Or maybe just two scum teams with one of them having only one member, but that's functionally the same unless they have any extra modifiers or something.In post 1, PenguinPower wrote: 2. The following is public knowledge: the setup consists of a Town faction versus a single groupscum faction, where "groupscum" is defined as having more than one player. It is not public knowledge whether other alignments exist in the game.-
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All of your TRs are players who've either defended you or aren't critical of you (except for maybe Billy for a bit), and all your SRs are players who were/are voting you or were critical of you, which reads pretty safe / risk-averse to me. Luca especially is a bit jarring, because while I don't have a strong TR on him I don't see anything of his that's especially scummy either. Similarly, I haven't seen anything especially towny from Chemist either, so some elaboration on those reads would be nice because I can't really see where you're coming from rn.In post 262, Tea wrote:town
{Chemist Billy}
{Layla GE}
---
{Luca Reundo}
{Vork Norwegian}
scum
there's a pretty big difference between the tiers separated by the line btw.
Also, why are you still not voting anyone?-
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What do you consider vote worthy, exactly? You're not exactly going to catch a scum slip most of the time on D1, and if everyone had the same attitude as you we wouldn't get anywhere. And +1 to Gamma's question as well.In post 268, Tea wrote:
Because nobody has done anything warranting a vote?In post 266, Reundo wrote:
All of your TRs are players who've either defended you or aren't critical of you (except for maybe Billy for a bit), and all your SRs are players who were/are voting you or were critical of you, which reads pretty safe / risk-averse to me. Luca especially is a bit jarring, because while I don't have a strong TR on him I don't see anything of his that's especially scummy either. Similarly, I haven't seen anything especially towny from Chemist either, so some elaboration on those reads would be nice because I can't really see where you're coming from rn.In post 262, Tea wrote:town
{Chemist Billy}
{Layla GE}
---
{Luca Reundo}
{Vork Norwegian}
scum
there's a pretty big difference between the tiers separated by the line btw.
Also, why are you still not voting anyone?
Also, there were two parts to my post and you completely ignored the first half. Could you explain your Luca and Chemist reads please, because I can't understand those especially.-
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Also, could you rephrase this / expand on this a bit, because I'm not quite sure what you're saying here.In post 269, Tea wrote:If you interact with someone you scumread... it kind of has a lot more weight if I haven't voted/might vote them-
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I don't see how him asking questions about your posts == a bad progression? Luca's ISO is a bit worse than I remembered but it's fairly ordinary in this game at least. "Empty or easy" questions describes a lot of ISOs here, and throwing him in your scum reads but not say splitfarvle/davesaz/dunn seems a bit random.
Also, I hope you ignoring like half the posts directed at you doesn't become a habit because it's starting to get annoying. What is your aversion towards voting people, exactly? I don't see a good reason to keep it holstered at this stage, or how it'll affect your "interactions with your scumreads" or whatever.-
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What I was trying to get out was why Luca's slot made an impression on you but those slots didn't. I don't really see Luca as that showboaty but eh I can kind of see how he could give off that impression.In post 300, Tea wrote: Because those slots havent made much an impression on me?
And it's his effort to present himself otherwise; a lot of other ISOs are plainly idontgiveafuck.
In post 300, Tea wrote: And when those posts all ask the same question about not voting that I answered... and like the answer boils down to playstyle differences, yeah I think it's starting to get annoying you ask the same question over and over when an answer is either pointless or already given.
You didn't answer this question though, and I wouldn't consider it "pointless". Like if it is just play style differences then just elaborate on why you play the way you do so you could clear that up instead of ignoring half of everything directed towards you, because it comes off as pretty anti-town.In post 270, Gamma Emerald wrote:What reasons are there to not vote?
OK, so what have I done that's "warranted a vote", as you put it?
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Double down on what?In post 303, Tea wrote:I wanted to see if you would double down or actually have a dialogue-
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I've been steadily reading through the game but haven't had a whole lot of time or motivation to post, but I'm feeling more in the swing of things now. I agree with most of the points made against Wake in Luca's/Zote's ISO dives, essentially not much more than surface reads and observations. His defense in #433 basically deflects every question/inquiry towards him with a blanket "I suck at D1 so either deal with it or lynch me," which is really pitiful and counter productive. Why post anything at all if you're not even going to defend or explain yourself? You can't claim you hate D1 while at the same time participating in a decent chunk of it and refusing to address a single point made against your posts. Even if you do suck at D1 at least try to clear up why you made the posts you did, other then "I can't handle the speculation." I'm good with this wagon.
VOTE: Wake88
Also liked Luca's recent post as well, he sums it up pretty nice. Leaning town on him.-
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Mmm, I'm not really convinced by the "meta" part of your case. Like, that's only 3 games, I don't think that's enough for an accurate meta comparison. Plus it seems like Open 765 was one of his first games on-site, so I don't know how representative it is of his current play.
As far as the second post goes, I don't really see what you're getting at. Like I guess I can technically see it as setting people up but that's not the first conclusion I'd come to when reading those posts and it seems like a bit of a stretch, and to me it looks more like ordinary scum-hunting / engagement, so I don't see how it's setting people up exclusively. Like I could easily see those posts coming from town, so I don't see how it's particularly scum-indicative. Also don't really get the distinction between "keeping his options open" and "keeping his mind open"?
Was gonna post more tonight but it's late now, so I'll get to this more tomorrow hopefully.-
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Agree with this but I feel Wake/Tea are better lynches today. I read Vortuka more as null / null-scum.In post 626, Luca Blight wrote: VOTE: Vorkuta
I feel like he’s flying under the radar a bit and I don’t like where his vote currently is.
TRs on Luca and Norwegian, town leans on Zote/Almost/Billy.-
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This would be kind of towny if the question wasn't already answered literally on the same page. Seems like a really lousy prod dodge.In post 616, Wake1 wrote:
Could you please clarify why you're Townreading me?In post 601, NorwegianboyEE wrote:My reads right now.
Townlean
- Chemist1422
- Billy Pilgrim
- Vorkuta
- Wake88
- Flavor Leaf (Changed my read on him over time)-
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Sorry for the inactivity. My schedule's been very packed recently and I haven't found much time to post.
Agree with the wagon on PM. That waffling around the Tea wagon that Chemist mentioned is pretty pingy (I've read "something worth mentioning" three times in PM's second post). I've also noticed he's done a similar thing with Norwegian where he says he's concerned by Norwegian's "aggressive play" but never actually gives a read on him, later saying he'd need a "night phase to go through everything said", and it kind of reads like PM was just hoping someone would pick it up and go after Norwegian w/o having to give an actual stance himself so he could back down from if later if need be. His latest post is also pretty bad, especially given how it was only like 3 hours after Fish voted so it's likely scum couldn't have even seen it, so it felt like he was jumping the gun there.
VOTE: PMysterious
Would still be fine with a Wake lynch as well. Also wary of splitfarvle/davesaz as well but I don't feel strong enough about it to push on them rn. Tea's recent posting has made me feel better about the slot but not enough to TR him. Also starting to TR Dunn a bit.-
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In post 841, Tea wrote:I think PM is probably town
Is PM "probably town" because of the content of other slots or...In post 842, Tea wrote:I mean I don't really see any content from the slot as of rn, and I see a lot for other slots so ig-
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I meant to say Norwegian in my last post, oops. Mostly because I thought he was pretty town at that point and your meta points weren't very convincing. Your Vorkuta vote wasn't that bad imo, though it might've been more productive to switch back to Wake at that point considering the Vorkuta wagon wasn't going anywhere and it didn't seem like you scum-read Vorkuta that much more than Wake at the time anyhow.In post 1140, Luca Blight wrote:How was my Vorkuta vote bad? Pressuring lurkers/low content slots is rarely a bad thing imo.-
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In post 1080, Fish Monger wrote:possible he didnt have daychat so he outed his results at eod too.
consider this to be the main reason to talk about roles.
He outed me as a VT, then went on to cover it up with the other talk.@Norwegian, pisskop is actually fish monger.
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Was just about to post about Dolly. Really don't like her interaction with Dunnstral, primarily how she dances around having to actually explain her reads. The only notable things she's done iirc was a "reads list" (which was not much more than a jumble of numbers, really) and reaction test Wake with a fake guilty, things she could easily do as scum. Also notable with regards to her "reads list" is that she ranked posts on whether she liked/disliked them instead of judging them as towny/scumy, which might just be playstyle/semantics but also suggests she's not looking at posts in terms of their actual scum equity. Also doesn't help that she replaced into Vorkuta who also generally did nothing but lol-post.
P-Edit: Yeah, I'm on board with this.
VOTE: Dolly Parton-
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What even is your scum case on Dunn other than "lurking", which like isn't even specific to Dunn.In post 1317, Dolly Parton wrote:Who is TRing Dunn and why. Please give good answers as I feel I've got scum in my headlights here.-
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What did you make of Norwegian's vote on Flavor early on in D1, then?In post 1374, Menalque wrote:
Scum are normally all good on lynching townIn post 1371, NorwegianboyEE wrote:
Yeah, because town has so much information at the start of the game. Having to worry about potentially targeting town. This is just absolute crap and i can't believe you're spouting this like it's somehow logical.In post 1368, Menalque wrote:and i think that’s scummy because town normally have a clearer preference in who they wantIt is in fact scum that play the game with a "clear preference of who they want" because they already know who their teammates are, so they are happy to keep pushing a town slot if they see it as a viable mislynch.
Good scum will normally have a game plan and want to lynch in a certain order to win, while adjusting based on flips, but will basically be down to vote anyone who isn’t a partner-
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Also yeah, I don't see how Norwegian hasn't been doing this fairly consistently?In post 1388, Menalque wrote:
Trying to find out what other people’s alignments are through probing and asking questionsIn post 1386, NorwegianboyEE wrote:
What the hell even is sorting then?In post 1385, Menalque wrote:That’s not sorting, that’s just posting reads?-
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I mean you've also defended Almost so by your logic shouldn't we lynch you as well?
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But like basically the only interactions you've had are with players who've either called you out directly or scum-read you, so even by your own standards you don't seem very proactive in scum-hunting.In post 1735, Wake1 wrote: *Sigh*
This is exactly what I was talking about.
Reads aren't really a part of how I play as Town. Sometimes I give reads, but because it's primarily based on gut reads have little value. It's the interactions where I feel things can be more easily parsed.-
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That the only meaningful thing your slot's done is tunnel on Dunn?In post 1744, Dolly Parton wrote:In post 906, PenguinPower wrote:In post 1046, PenguinPower wrote:
Here are the 3 lynch VCs. Does anything stick out to anyone other that what I mentioned above?In post 1712, PenguinPower wrote:-
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Also jfc you literally already asked this in your third post this game. Read the rules.In post 1749, Wake1 wrote:
Do you think it's possible the game could be multiball?In post 1747, Dolly Parton wrote:3 or 4 scum with 18 players?-
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Yes, I'm aware I haven't done a whole lot this game, and that's my own fault. But like at least I try to explain my thought process and have answered questions directed towards me. Meanwhile you still refuse to explain why reads suddenly flipped regarding Wake/Luca and why Wake's reaction to your fake guilty / Luca's wagon dissolving respectively made either of them town.-
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In post 1797, Wake1 wrote:*Townread on Menalque for asking pointed questions despite his atrocious vote.
??? What changed your mind on Mena between those 20 posts, Wake?In post 1817, Wake1 wrote:Menalque, Hectic, Reundo, and Dolly all were very quick to jump on the wagon, for NO reason.
Luca initiated the wagon. Tea held back.
Scum is definitely on my wagon. I don't know if it's Luca because he's obstinate and narrow-minded and has been tunneling on me all game.
But the other 4? Those I worry about the most.-
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What happened to your "town clear" on Wake?In post 1862, Dolly Parton wrote: And as to you question as to why I jumped in on your wagon. It felt right. I want to see if/how it builds and if it gets close to a lynch then I will re-revaluate my stance. Right now it's just an info-getting-vote, if you will.
Also, you were the fourth vote on the wagon, which proves the wagon was already built up by that point (and brings him pretty close to a lynch by itself), so voting him to see "if/how it builds" doesn't make any sense when it was already half-way through.-
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Spoiler:
^This is every post in Wake's ISO this day phase that could possibly be construed as game solving (the other half is either him defending himself or casting doubt on Luca as the vig, which is completely unnecessary at this point btw -- there were a couple of questions he asked in his ISO too which I'll address a bit later). Notice how he casts shade on a lot of slots yet never states who he thinks is most likely to be scum or any of his actual scum reads. Like, take the fourth post quoted for example -- he says "I'm almost certain there was at least one other scum on A50" yet never gives any indication of who he thinks that scum actually is, and that whole post just reads like busy work made to look like he's actually scum-hunting without ever having to draw any meaningful conclusions himself. He hasn't evenvotedanyone this entire read despite suspecting like half the player list. In fact, the only indication of any sort of concrete read that isn't a vague "scum could be in this group" or "I'm worried about these players" is #1797 when he townreads Mena, which he seemingly takes back 20 posts later in #1817 when he puts him in the pool of players he's "worried" about (which he ignored when I asked him about it). They're the second/third posts in the spoiler, btw.
And not giving many reads or even voting would be one thing if he actually interacted with players much, which he claims is how he scum reads, yet if you read through the rest of his ISO this day most of his interactions are him defending himself in response to other players (mainly Luca and briefly Dunn in the begginning). In fact, the only times I saw where he actually went out to initiate conversation with him completely unprompted was asking Dolly why she voted him (which actually isn't that unprompted since it still involves him), asking Luca if he townread Tea (which is very easy to find out with a quick ISO search) and a few comments about whether the setup is multi-ball (it's not, and this has been talked about already) and casting doubt on Luca as the vig (which I mean if he wasn't he's completely screwed over anyone, and there's no way he's being lynched this day phase regardless), so even in this light he hasn't been doing much scum-hunting at all (which is another point I brought up of him earlier that he also completely brushed aside).
I mean sure his activity has gone up quite a bit since D1 but overall he hasn't done much scum-hunting at all. Pretty consistently, his ISO mostly compromises of him defending himself or just casting shade on other slots (most of which directly involve either scum-reading or voting him). Neither of these are that bad on their own, but when coupled with his consistent lack of reads or interactions that don't directly involve him in some way it reads like he's much more concerned about not getting lynched than doing actually scum-hunting. And again, considering he's scum-reading like half of the playerlist, you'd think he'd at least throw his vote onsomeoneby now, but he doesn't even seem motivated enough to do that, which demonstrates his reluctance to make any strong/definite stances.-
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I don't think davesaz looks great here either. The last couple of pages give me a similar impression to Wake as in there's a bit of analysis in there (mostly surrounding wagons) yet not a lot of definite conclusions regarding who his main scum-reads are. He did a bit of game-solving during D1 but that's dropped off considerably, and I don't think he's given many if any reads at all past his big reads-list (which wasn't really all that impressive either). Also don't really see a reason for him to be holstering his vote either.-
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In post 1880, Dolly Parton wrote:
So now everyone wants to believe me. I get shade for "town clearing" wake and I get shade for voting him the next day when it was a clear sheep-info-vote which I said it was in the post youIn post 1877, Reundo wrote:
What happened to your "town clear" on Wake?In post 1862, Dolly Parton wrote: And as to you question as to why I jumped in on your wagon. It felt right. I want to see if/how it builds and if it gets close to a lynch then I will re-revaluate my stance. Right now it's just an info-getting-vote, if you will.
Also, you were the fourth vote on the wagon, which proves the wagon was already built up by that point (and brings him pretty close to a lynch by itself), so voting him to see "if/how it builds" doesn't make any sense when it was already half-way through.QUOTED!
Saying it's a "clear sheep-info-vote" implied that your read hasn't changed on Wake, yet according to the second post quote here your readIn post 1939, Dolly Parton wrote:So The Final Scum:
Dave and Pisskop.
***Maybe Wake/Hectic.
****Prolly not Hectic
*****Wake maybe.haschanged, at least significantly enough to where you aren't town-clearing him anymore, which begs the same question: what changed regarding your "town clear" on him?-
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Mena feels pretty towny to me. Don't really jive with most of Luca's case on him. Mena's opening was a little weird but he didn't really press Luca on it for long so I don't really see how it's scum-indicative. Although, there was something he said about Mena earlier that stuck out to me regarding him "lasering in on certain things and ignoring others", because that was basically the same impression I got from him, though I'm not entirely convinced it's scummy either since I could see it being explained by town!him being tunneled on Norwegian. His drop in game-solving after the last game day is a notable as well but overall he's been pretty consistent in game-solving and probing others, and I haven't noticed any really left-field read swaps or progressions from him either, so I don't entirely get most of the scum-reads on him.-
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Also, I was skimming through Mena's ISO and I found this post, and I was thinking this would be a pretty bold thing for scum!Mena to say, considering he'd know he'd look terrible after Norwegian flipped town, which would only look even worse if Almost flipped before he did (which he did). I mean obviously there'd be a scum motive in him scum-reading Luca for trying to re-direct to his scum buddy, but if he was scum wouldn't it look better just to say something like "I see where you're coming from but I still think Norway's scummier", which'll accomplish roughly the same thing w/o looking considerably worse when Almost flips scum? Like I'm kind of not seeing why scum!Mena would tunnel Norwegian so hard and case him so extensively to presumably look towny yet also jeopardize his town-cred by hard-defending a buddy who wasn't even under a lot of suspicion.In post 1525, Menalque wrote:Maybe Luca is just scum
I was kind of going back and forth yesterday evening on whether he was genuinely undecided on Norway or just defending him and attempting to redirect to A50
Calling that a good defence is making me think it’s the latter-
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Why would you heal Norwegian over Chemist?In post 2068, Dolly Parton wrote:Night 2 I picked Norwegian-
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Also, jfc. Pisskop and Fish are the SAME player. Why would it matter if pisskop claimed on his alt or not? Doesn't him saying "he already claimed" already confirm he's sticking by his Fish claim? And it's not like you'd catch him slipping up on his claim when Luca literally just pointed out that he claimed VT. Like maybe it'd be slightly better if Luca held that back and waited for pisskop to reclaim just in case, but I'm doubtful pisskop would remember that he claimed but not what he claimed anyhow, and Luca pointing that out makes this line of questioning from Wake/Dolly entirely pointless.-
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In post 2070, pisskop wrote:Not only have i already claimed, I cannot believe this game is still going. its so far beneath my radar its laughable,.
I find it a bit hard to believe that this game is "far beneath his radar" yet we're supposed to believe he'd be effort-posting if only he rolled scum, which is pretty lousy self-meta anyways. I'm pretty sure he said he was supposed to be posting yesterday morning and never followed through on that.In post 2089, pisskop wrote:Why am I being wagoned for lurkering? With over 100 games on site, and over 30 scumgames, not one of those games did I lurk my way to a win. Get real with this wagon.
I wouldn't be entirely opposed to lynching pisskop since there's not a whole lot towny about him, but I mean there's not really a whole lot I'm scum reading him for either. I'd much rather lynch in Wake/dave/Dolly today. Maybe not so much Dolly since she claimed doc, but then again that's the exact sort of claim scum would make.-
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Also, this is a lousy excuse for not protecting someone who was virtually lock-town.In post 2100, Dolly Parton wrote:I just didn't pick Chemist. You know, WIFOM and all that jazz. I have no better reasoning than that.-
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Like on one hand I'm pretty skeptical of Dolly's claim but if she is telling the truth I'm not sure if the risk of losing another PR is worth it. But like what really are the chances that we have two protectives this game and BOTH of them coincidentally decided not to protect Chemist?
P-Edit:Ohhhh yeah, I forgot tomorrow's an even night. Mmm, maybe it's best not to lynch her then.-
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You didn't see this post??In post 2080, Luca Blight wrote:Pisskop and Fish Monger are the same person.-
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You posted this after Luca's post... I'm finding that hard to believe.In post 2087, Dolly Parton wrote:For the record, pisskop again refused to verify Fish's claim.-
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OK, that's fair. But you also made that post after this post, which says it much more explictly...
In post 2082, Luca Blight wrote:Pisskop hasn’t claimed anything, he just referenced the earlier claim fromhis Fish Monger account.-
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I'm not overly concerned which of Dave/Wake is lynched. Both are pretty scummy, but I feel Wake is more so.
I'm a bit more receptive to a pisskop lynch due to his continued lack of content, but I still feel he's the least scummy of the VT claims. And yeah, we should probably put Dolly aside for the day just in case she is a doc.-
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I've been re-reading through the game a bit, and it mostly just did more to reaffirm my reads, though pisskop does look worse on re-read. Davesaz also looks slightly better but not marginally so. I'm feeling pretty good about Mena being town atm. Dunn/Hectic are pretty null but there have been some town pings here and there.
Still would like to lynch Dolly today, and her posts today haven't assured me she's town either.-
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Also @Dolly what happened to this?In post 2241, Dolly Parton wrote:
I'll try to do this later. I most likely will be a horrible list.In post 2227, Hectic wrote:
Could you give us a quick shotgun reads list of everyone in order? Explanations aren't necessary but would be helpful.-
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I mean sure, at least to some extent, but you haven't been very in-depth on any of them either. Like, you can't even seem to explain why your top scum read is scummy. You say that Dunn's scummy because he's the only one alive fypov not on the Wake wagon, but haven't explained why exactly that's scum-indicative, even when pressed on it. You also say he's been a "vibe" read but haven't really articulated that in any meaningful depth. Like, what about him saying "No claiming" earlier this day was so scummy / gave off a scum-vibe to you?-
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Hectic, I'm not entirely convinced you're town here. I'd think as town you'd be more likely to think through the implications before hammering Dolly, especially considering Luca was going to be NK'ed 99% of the time. I agree that Mena's assertion is a bit too strong, but I do think your hammer was more scum than town motivated and at the very least it was bad town play, and I don't think Mena is scummy solely because of it. I only really see him opening this way today as scum if the team's him/davesaz, which I'm not feeling atm.-
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Also, it's pinging me how before this you haven't even really suspected me much at all, and I get the feeling you've been buddying me.In post 2421, Hectic wrote:I'm pretty much writing off Ruendo as town here, but maybe that's a bad idea.
Oh, and just a side-note my name's actually spelled Reundo. Don't know if that was intentional or not.-
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Did you like not catch Dunn hard-pushing Dolly or something?? This is a really weird reason to be scum-reading him in general...In post 2422, davesaz wrote: Dunn pushed so hard (relative to Dunn in general) on there being too many protectives but I don't remember if he just paid it lip service or if he acted on that push. If he really thought there were too many then he should have been there trying to get one of the claims lynched. It could be a fake protest though, the logic he was using to say too many protectives was suspect at best -- not all of them are active at once and with a half vig in play town benefits from an extra half protective. It's a nice cozy rocking chair in any case, I could totally see this as being scum.-
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So coming into today I thought the team was likely davesaz/Dunn but that's a little mmmm considering davesaz's now pushing Dunn apparently, but on the other hand I don't think it's a very convincing push either. I think it's a bit more likely dave would push on Hectic if that was the team but I don't think a bus is entirely implausible either considering Hectic also threw that team out earlier. Actually, I think it's a bit weird dave didn't mention Hectic's hammer at all in his read of him considering that's literally the only thing that was talked about today, but I'm doubting they're a team together. I'm leaning towards dave/Dunn atm, but I'd need to re-read the game again later. It's either that or Hectic/Dunn, and maybe it could be dave/Mena too but I'm thinking Mena's probably town.
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