Large Normal 228: Bananas - Game Over

[Umlaut]

Well I was going to instantly vote Titus as a pre-emptive OMGUS, but mod just ruined that for me so

VOTE: LuckyLuciano

because gambler's fallacy says he has to be scum this time.

[Umlaut]

Game has been open three whole hours and there aren't 10 pages of shitposts for me to wade through, is this even a real Large?

[Umlaut]

Er, make that one whole hour

I'm super good at math

[Umlaut]

VOTE: titus

I don’t believe the mod

VOTE: osuka

I understand it's a joke, but it's also a failure to use your vote to actually pressure someone, even minimally. (Looking at Cakez too for the same reason.)

[Umlaut]

Hah, my plan to pre-emptively OMGUS has succeeded after all!

[Umlaut]

Hah, my plan to pre-emptively OMGUS has succeeded after all!

What do you hope to accomplish with said plan

All I really hoped to accomplish was entertaining myself, but your weirdly oversensitive response is an unexpected bonus.

[Umlaut]

Spoiler: Story

So there I was, eating a banana in my living room. I was just hanging out and having a good time, but then Bob walked in. I instantly lost my appetite when I saw what he was wearing.

"Bob," I sputtered, "how did you find my old bananakini?!"

This is... really, really slow to kick off.

@osuka

Want to talk about your vote on me? No one else wants to talk about anything, so you might as well.

[Umlaut]

I was a bit skeptical of the story too (despite contributing to it), and thought it was more likely to distract from scumhunting than to get more people posting, so I can't fault anyone criticizing it. Anyway, I think it's perfect at five sentences now.

pedit

no, it's not enough indication.

[Umlaut]

Need to read the Osuka-Bob skirmish more carefully but at first skim it seems to be making a mountain out of a molehill on both sides.

fwogcarf

but i think i got what i wanted.

VOTE: fwogcarf


Have you not got any views on anything else. Why does everythign you could comment on only be about osuka vs bob ?

Weird justification for a vote. What else in particular should fwogcarf be commenting on when you two are the main thing happening in the game rn?

[Umlaut]

SRing Black Ranger. Nahdia asked why? Because his page 1/2 content looked like scum trying to get posts in as "content"

Was this already why you voted him in 23 (well, not for his page 2 content obviously, but his page 1) or was that just random?

[Umlaut]

It was kind of a weird vote, yeah.

I'm asking because you changed your vote there immediately after I pointed out you were voting Titus the IC, and the timing struck me funny. That didn't influence you at all though?

[Umlaut]

Cakez' answer to me in 141 is good, leaning town there.

Then why

did

you contribute to [the story]?

You're effectively rewriting how something is to be read, and I don't believe that comes from a town place.

I contributed because I didn't want to be Boring McBuzzkill and figured I could give it benefit of the doubt until it actually did turn out to be a problem.

(Honestly I like the question though)

[Umlaut]

Why did it become a problem though?

It didn't, which is why I didn't say anything about my skepticism until people started calling Black Ranger scummy and citing his post saying the story was stupid. My point there wasn't really about the story itself, it was that thinking it's stupid is a completely reasonable opinion for town to have and a bad reason to scumread Black Ranger.

[Umlaut]

I contributed because I didn't want to be Boring McBuzzkill and figured I could give it benefit of the doubt until it actually did turn out to be a problem.

@Drew

I guess you're reading this as follows:

I figured at that time, "I can give it benefit of the doubt." Then, when it turned out to be a problem, I stopped figuring that.

But actually what I meant is more like:

I figured at that time, "I can give it benefit of the doubt until it turns out to be a problem."

[Umlaut]

Then either you deny that the latter is a legitimate parse of 149, or you admit it's a legitimate parse but you think you couldn't have chosen the wrong parse of an ambiguous sentence. Which is it?

---

Thinking Black Ranger is town. 52 and 54 are actually quite towny posts IMO: scum has nothing to gain from starting that particular fight and the reasoning he gives (both for not liking it and for not commenting sooner) resonates with me. I think it's fair to question 55 but I don't necessarily take that vote at face value as being random.

Nahdia is kind of towny I guess but I don't see anything yet that would be hard for scum to emulate.

fwogcarf is not exactly giving me town pings but I need someone to explain the wagon because right now it looks to be based on some pretty weak surface-level points. Still want a response from Bob in particular re. 139.

[Umlaut]

Only half here today, dealing with RL medical things

VOTE: Bob
Osuka looks a bit better over time and I agree upon consideration that Bob's plagiaristic approach to reads is unnerving.

No real read on the replacements yet.

Fwog wagon is still ???

[Umlaut]

If you want to take the whole day, do so. If it's a serious enough distraction from being your best, but you still want to play, I can give you a day 1 lynch pass. This would be true regardless of your alignment. I have been there struggling with mental, physical, and financial health during mafia games. Playing, albeit terribly, helped me get through it. This is my conftown policy unless I get too many requests like that.

Take care of yourself.

That's generous of you, but I don't expect to need all that -- things should be resolved in an IRL day or two and anyway I'm in the position of caretaker rather than patient.

Fwog wagon is still ???

you asked and i answered. dont ignore me, friend umlaut. if you're going to cast shade, you must be willing to step into the sun.

Honestly I just missed your answer there. Looking back at 189: Eh, I guess. In early game I don't think it's too bad to throw out questions without really having a plan for what to do with the answer, and so while "to spark conversation" is kind of a lame response I don't really expect a good one. But on looking at it again I agree 98 in particular is kind of a weird question to ask if one is not actually entertaining an SvS model.

[Umlaut]

Bwahaha

*twirls mustache*

[Umlaut]

Scattered comments again

A weak read is something you’d pounce at with the strenght of an trained attack dog? A weak read is something you’d use such language as: "scummy ass reaction" from BR to justify?
How does that fit into your explanation for your behaviour?

This is a huge reach.

Regarding Lucky:

Lucky's attitude in post 199 resonates with me. Townhunting is also a valid way to scumhunt lol. But the explanation is so......long and could have been more concise imo. Emotion seems genuine here especially regarding Titus and he seems earnest because he's overdefending himself but he may be

too earnest

so I don't want to townread him so easily. Haven't seen the townhunting yet so not a good

luck

look overall.

Good post.

Does scum theater this early

why, are you scumreading them both?

This pop-in seems scummy because Nahdia doesn't address Bob/Osuka much but takes this opportunity to pressure Fwog.

Nahdia's pretty carefree especially regarding Bob/Osuka too and it shows in their previous posts:

fascinating stuff

yup

im just enjoying the view, friend bob.

So I while I believe Nahdia could have glazed over Bob/Osuka I think they should have been able to form an opinion regarding Bob/Osuka tbh at that time at least. Just weird how Fwog became the focus instead of one of those two even considering that Nahdia might have glazed over the argument. Nahdia seemed like a wolf pouncing on prey that dared to wander out into the chaos of Bob/Osuka.

On another note:

Spoiler:

More votes on osuka, please and thank you friends.

Also dang mod, that 4xBump Combo. Never in all my years have I seen such a daring maneuver.

This irks me because it has never been explained and I can't see a thought process.

Also a good post, but I don't really agree with it. I think grabbing onto something and trying to see where it goes is a reasonable way to try and get into a game where you're kind of feeling disengaged from the main event and that's what I see there from Nahdia.

[Umlaut]

This is a huge reach.

Why is it so?

Because what SirCakez said was just this:

scummy ass reaction
I agree Black Ranger's earlier posts on pg 2 were bad too

That's not "pouncing with the strength of a trained attack dog," that's just saying something looks scummy. I don't think it really looked scummy but that's beside the point here, you are trying to act like Cakez said "BLACK RANGER IS CONFIRMED SCUM LYNCH NOW" when that's not anything like what he said, and your followup conflating a

serious

read with a

strong

one and saying someone can't say "that's scummy" on page freaking three is complete nonsense that I have trouble imagining you could really believe. At the most charitable reading you are jumping down his throat for not explicitly saying "this looks scummy

but I could be wrong

" which is more tone policing than it is gamesolving.

[Umlaut]

Happy birthday, Nahdia

Umlaut, why is bob scum?

I'm not particularly sure he's scum, I don't have any significant scumreads atm. But my vote is for the read-echoing that Osuka pointed out in 213 and beyond that just not having anything to townread them for.

I almost changed my vote to Norwegian with 281/291 but decided not to more or less randomly

[Umlaut]

Actually though:

The very first response Nahdia...

That's something I never see town say. Just dismissing the fact that you've been discovered skimming through the entire conversation with a comment like that will turn heads, especially mine. The naked vote was a reaction test, and I believe it paid off. I'm keeping my vote where it is.

This is either scum or massive confbias, and I'm more interested in exploring the former possibility.

VOTE: fwogcarf

[Umlaut]

I never know how to read posts like 329 where someone says they're replacing out but still seems to be using their replace-out post to play the game, but I think in practice that usually comes from town. I also somwhat like Puppy's entry (unvoting someone only to then vote the same person is lol but kind of townlol) but I have to pick at the points they're making a bit:

There once was a poster named black ranger. Someone was telling a story. He didn't like that. it was bananas. After explaining all the reasons why it was bananas, he voted someone else. That was bananas too.

Doesn't seem that bananas to me, unless you think "I don't like this" is synonymous with "this is scummy"?

liked this whole post [148] from drew and especially this part, which i thought was a good point

I thought it was a terrible point, though I acknowledge my perspective on it is a bit biased. What's good about it?

[Umlaut]

there also some other arguments with my slot about townhunting being not just bad but "malicious". ok, my slot is scummy, malicious, does scummy things... does he ever come out and say he has a scumread? dude, kiss already!

Where are these arguments?

Okay, I found them by searching "malicious."

@BR

Going off from this, what do you think of Lucky's recent response?

I felt like he humored Drew too much with a giant post about why scumhunting is hard. Beyond that he gave a baseline of what I should expect from him and he's now married to that idea.

I think encouraging somebody to build a town bloc is pointless fluff and potentially malicious. A good way to build a bloc of townies is to lynch scum and realize it after the fact.

I agree that this looks like he's saying he scumreads your slot, but I'm not totally sure I'm reading it right.

@BR

Who is "encouraging somebody to build a town bloc" here?

i guess i liked the question more than the point itself. it's a good question, u can say u didn't like the story idea but u did contribute to it, u have to explain that before u can credibly call out anyone else on the story. not sure you're "rewriting" so much as just skipping over a step though

that drew noticed that and pointed it out makes him look more town not you scum

I wasn't trying to call anybody out on the story, I was trying to defend BR's callout as something that could come from town; maybe that's why I wasn't impressed with the point. But I suppose that whether it's exactly correct is kind of immaterial to reading Drew for the manner in which he pushed it. After three posts of back-and-forth about it I subjectively felt Drew was insisting on that point beyond what was rational, but this is probably just because I know what I intended and I assume everyone should always take me at my word.

[Umlaut]

VOTE: NorwegianboyEE

[Umlaut]

I’m not really seeing that many convincing arguments yet and that’s probably why i can’t pay much attention to all that’s going on. I’m keeping my vote on Cakez and suggest we lynch there. But all in all i’d jusy like to end day 1 so discussion maybe will have more meaning to me.

You can be unconvinced and wanting to see better arguments, or you can be looking to end the day, but you can't be both. That's not a town mindset at all.

[Umlaut]

You can demonstrate how good you find it by voting for Norwegian.

[Umlaut]

I'm gonna expand on my Nahdia scumread because I still firmly believe they're a wolf. I don't know how to link posts so bear with me.

I don't know whether or not their post 51 is a joke or not, but now that osuka has become townier to me in their recent posts, it's a questionable one to make. I also don't know why someone mentions the mod filling up the rest of the page, probably for extra fluff. 73 is bad. Their next couple of posts are just them spectating, and then they suddenly get on my case about a possible theater happening. I know some people questions townreads on themselves, but Nahdia feels too unnatural to be questioning Cakez about a townread unless Nahdia is scumreading Cakez or something like that. We get to 194, where they decide "Meh, I'll back off", and don't take their vote off of me.

The recent interaction between me and Nahdia was supposed to put pressure on Nahdia and also try and convince others to get on the wagon with me. That failed horribly, and I know that. I don't know if it's worth noting but Nahdia also hasn't posted since that interaction, making it seem like they don't want to talk to anybody anymore and probably talking in their wolfchat.

1. Use the 'post' tag. Type e.g. {post}51{/post} (but replacing the curly braces with square braces) to link to post 51.
   
   
2. Your description of 51 is another massive reach, and you don't say anything about what makes 73 bad.
   
   
3. The rest of that paragraph is more or less an accurate description of what Nahdia has done but fails to make any case that what they have done comes from scum.
   
   
4. The closest thing you have to a point is that Nahdia has been relatively inactive in the game. But the game has been pretty slow overall, and Nahdia isn't even the least recent poster. "don't want to talk to anybody anymore and probably talking in their wolfchat" is yet another reach.

Have you considered that you may be massively confbiased and viewing everything Nahdia does through the lens of "this is possible for scum to do, therefore they're even scummier now"?

[Umlaut]

i don't want to argue, i just want to know what u're thinking

having the conf town declare what the right wagons are will not be useful to me tomorrow

having the conf town walk me through a 100% town thought process will

I feel those three wagons are most likely to hit scum. Most of the suspicions are T v T. BR, osaka, nahdia, and fro all feel town.

Bob v Cakez feels fake. Drew feels like an instigator. I doubt all of these are scum. The way people vote will set up associatives.

Last I checked the leading wagon was still fwog. If you want to move people off of it, making some kind of case that he's town seems like a good idea.

Wake's absence is also concerning
He was a lot more active as town in the Mini I played with him recently

Do you think that the IRL issues he's cited are an inadequate explanation?

[Umlaut]

I mean, there's no question of whether those issues are

real

, the question is whether they're

sufficient

. But really I am more interested in hearing SirCakez' answer to that specifically than I am in talking about the issues themselves.

[Umlaut]

Dude.

SirCakez said something and I'm trying to prod him about it. Stop standing in front of the prod.

[Umlaut]

Going to take time later today to look through Titus' list of candidates and see who is most lynchworthy. If I had to pick right this second I'd say Bob but I haven't really updated my read on any of them in a while.

Looking forward to seeing Wake do something today.

i thought i'd have more to respond to but very little catches my eye

the only thing is a growing FOS on osuka

there's something about that iso i don't like that i can't put my finger on. and in the last two pages i think he's been more aggressive than others on this debate about lurking. ime when scum genuinely believe something (like it's bad to question irl excuses), scum tend to be more aggressive about it because they don't have to act as hard to look town. (like how scum are often most aggressive in lynching third parties so they can look town)

I don't entirely follow this line of reasoning. How does this mean they don't have to act as hard to look town?

[Umlaut]

Felt like Umlaut talking Norwegian out of a Cakez tunnel was a good post. Osuka nailed it pg16 in his commentary on the Umlautposting.

Wait, when did I do this? The only thing I can think is that maybe you're thinking of 380 where I tried to talk fwog out of a Nahdia tunnel, but what I did with Norwegian was point out that he was holding an incoherent position (wanting to end the day while also apparently having very unsettled reads), and vote him for it.

[Umlaut]

Oh hey, you think my reason for voting you is dumb, guess I'd better change it then

[Umlaut]

The point you keep insisting on is that I am, or was, nervous and backtracking. I wasn't, and honestly I can't see what you even think there is for me to be nervous about or how you think it would hypothetically benefit me as scum to profess some specific opinion with regard to that story at all.

[Umlaut]

Titus, can you please be a little more open with your reads? You're kind of an obvious night kill target, so while I'd like to keep you I'm not sure how long that will be possible. I appreciate your not wanting to tip your hand but it would be nice to see it while you're still alive.

[Umlaut]

@Norwegian

Thoughts on Drew in general, not just regarding his vote on you?

[Umlaut]

VOTE: Bob

I don't really feel any better about Norwegian but it's time to consolidate. Not interested in SirCakez, and Drew's last few posts have made me feel better about that slot as well, so this is probably my best shot at contributing to a scum lynch today.

[Umlaut]

I'll accept the doc claim; even if it's false that will come out eventually, I'm sure.

UNVOTE: Bob

I promise I will vote shortly but I want to reread a bit first

[Umlaut]

Manatee would be a good lynch, actually. His presence in the game is so minimal that I forgot to even form a read of him, and looking at his posting record I don't see any significant contributions.

VOTE: Manatee

I'm still willing to hear other options if there's time, though, because I don't think we learn much from this flip.

[Umlaut]

I would have said the other day that I was happy to lynch him, but I feel like I saw some fwog posts that I thought were kind of towny, but I can't remember what they were and I may have just dreamed them. I'll take another look at him and report back.

[Umlaut]

the wisdom is that fwog is mafia.
and fenraiser is towny
and im coming around on cakez being maybe town also. his progression on BR is good and while i dont agree with the logic on his norway push, it feels like genuine hunting. i think scum!cakez would deathroll it more. can see the gears turning there better.
519 on the other hand is a transparent scum reaction.

@drew do you always scumhunt by looking for "slips"? I am being highkey triggered by your play bc normally i consider calling things slips which arent a scumtell, but i feel like you've been doing it so much that maybe we just have different definitions of those words?

i will lynch manatee. 536 is bad (the second point about the omgus). it's not an illogical point, but i dont buy that manatee is a paragon of logic that believes anything not perfectly rational is scummy.

>Fwog is mafia
>I want to lynch Manatee

Honestly that is pretty weird. Nahdia, why not push a fwog lynch if that's who you think is most likely scum?

[Umlaut]

Re. deadline, time basically has no meaning for me now so there's no problem with my being up late to ensure a lynch goes through.

[Umlaut]

Then why aren't you voting?

[Umlaut]

$10 says if i had started pushing fwog harder, fwog would have hopped in and said "look at nahdia trying to form a counterwagon with less than a day left!!!1! anti-town behavior!!!"

Not sure how you propose to decide who wins that bet but okay.

Do you think I'm scum too? I picked that up and also pushed you on it so I must have also missed this obvious thing.

[Umlaut]

there is less than a day and the IC is callng them town.

I was going to say the timing doesn't work right on this but then I looked and it does, so... fine

[Umlaut]

Actually, has anyone really stated a townread on fwog besides Titus, or given a case for his being town? It's kind of weird that no one is really defending him and yet he's been so hard to wagon.

[Umlaut]

I'm here, I just don"t have much to say right now (except that everyone not on a lynch wagon needs to get onto one).

Can you reiterate the SirCakez case for me? Why is he a better lynch than you?

[Umlaut]

aren't ciphers against the rules

The spirit of that rule is not to use modern cryptographic tools that are essentially unbreakable, I think; the line isn't perfectly solid, but I think crumbs that are meant to in principle be decipherable by anyone are well on the safe side of it.

[Umlaut]

Bob, when did you get so angry and snooty?

i dont realy tollerate toxity along those lines after "Mafia à la Mode! ". I will call it out when i see it.



Titus i know i make allot of typos normally atleast one a post. Be funny if i ever find a posts with 88 typos. Be funny to see what they would typo out

rlaftybdoagtyhvglatysgyueabsgtydcagysuftoashbftutp

i know its not 88 but from the start its gives the idea all the way to the very end

here is another. Can you solve the puzzle. There is word in the letters with a cypher in the posts to tell you how to unlock it

I have to say I went back to look at this again and I still don't understand it at all. If there is a crumb here it's up to you to explain it, Bob.

[Umlaut]

UNVOTE: ManateeDude
(Don't worry, I have no life and can put my vote back on at any time, just have some business to take care of first)

I know it's most likely too late for this, but can I get a quick show of hands on who would lynch Drew?

I'm getting a gut sensation that I'm about to see some green text if we flip Manatee, and Drew vaguely shading votes onto the wagon while also saying "sure I guess I can vote there" but not actually doing so feels like he wants the wagon to go to lynch but wants to be on record as against it.

[Umlaut]

My vote is still spiritually on you, Manatee, so if you have a claim you should probably make it since you're the most likely lynch at this point.

[Umlaut]

Try to hide the scum pm next time.

Wow, you are already succeeding at being a bigger pain in the ass! Way to follow through.

[Umlaut]

Well I already fucked up the wagon by making the suggestion so I might as well

VOTE: Drew-Sta

(Will still go back to Manatee if this turns out unworkable)

[Umlaut]

Where was this willingness to lynch drew when it mattered? Because some end of day show that you would

totally lynch Drew guys

doesn't mean shit to anyone.

Do you think Manatee is scum, or do you think my brilliant scumplay here is to actively draw attention to myself in order to dismantle a wagon on town at the end of the day?

[Umlaut]

Is it weird that a mini life goal I have is to host a big party for mafiascummers again?

/in

[Umlaut]

Yeah.

We're running out of time and these wagons need to be consolidated.

Thanks for pointing out the obvious

Vote drew please

↑

[Umlaut]

I mean I don't have a huge case, it's been hard for me to get strong reads on anyone this game. I'm mostly on Drew now because of his behavior around the Manatee wagon just a few pages ago; 693 in particular really struck me as looking for a safe position. (Why ask Titus in particular to explain why Manatee? Being conftown doesn't make her reasons more correct than anyone else's.) I feel like the main thing that's made me hesitant to scumread him has been just that he posted a lot of walls but, on reflection, I think that players who wallpost a lot usually do it as either alignment, so that's not much of a reason.

I have found Umlaut more consistent but their nervousness has me worried. Their noting of Norwee's behaviour and pushing of that is excellent and I think what a town player would and should do. It's more telling that people haven't observed that and moved onto norwee for pressure, and that's made me think the norwee vote has merit since mafia would drive a wagon like that as what he posted is a clear easy push - at least to establish pressure if not to see where it goes.

It gives me confidence about Umlaut, in that case. I still think there's questions about their slot but we'll see how it develops.

Also looking back at things like this I see a bit too much advertising of Drew's trajectory; as if he thinks he can't just drop the scumread on me, he has to show that he's gradually and naturally moving on from it (even though actual town players' reads jump all over the place all the time).

[Umlaut]

Well, at least I don't have to be paranoid about Bob's claim now.

[Umlaut]

I say we lynch off the Drew wagon today. It's possible someone bused but it's also very likely someone didn't.

VOTE: Black Ranger

Try to hide the scum pm next time.

Wow, you are already succeeding at being a bigger pain in the ass! Way to follow through.

Where was this willingness to lynch drew when it mattered? Because some end of day show that you would

totally lynch Drew guys

doesn't mean shit to anyone.

A lot of Black Ranger's response to the wagon looks bad to me, but this looks worst of all. Stripping out the rhetoric, the message of this post is twofold:

• It's too late to lynch Drew-Sta, so don't bother trying; and
  
• Umlaut isn't
  really
  willing to lynch Drew-Sta, he's just trying to get town cred by pretending.

The goal of the former message, insofar as it has one, is to prevent anyone else from moving to the Drew wagon. But the latter message only makes sense if Black Ranger thinks Drew-Sta is scum. So the overall goal of this message is "prevent people from trying to lynch someone I think is scum." A much better response if you as town think I'm scum trying to pseudo-bus my partner at the last second would be to call my bluff by voting him, and that's something Black Ranger never did.

[Umlaut]

Moderator is very sick and so vote counts will be reduced. I apologize.

No apology necessary, take care of yourself!

[Umlaut]

I think unannounced multiball is unpopular enough around here that that's probably not what's happening. Going to agree that Mafia+SK is most likely and work on that assumption unless someone wants to take credit for that extra kill.

@fwog

Why did you assume vig specifically?

Nahdia's 848 is a good observation and I agree with their confusion as to how the distinction Manatee is drawing in his response is a meaningful one.

[Umlaut]

OK, so I've got some thoughts.

fwogcarf in 429 was alright with lynching drew. Seems like it's from a Town perspective. However if this game is multiball this take goes out the window.

Assuming it's not multiball I'm Townreading Black Ranger for his vote (first on the wagon of drew) in 453.

Scum-Drew (with 1 vote) voted NorwegianboyEE in 473. Drew kept that vote on him until his lynch. This makes me currently think Drew and NorwegianboyEE aren't on the same team.

I also see that he was keen on being opportunistic over my activity-level in 474.

I feel better about Black Ranger at the moment. Slightly less so on fwogcarf and NorwegianboyEE, but still slightly in the green.

These... barely qualify as thoughts.

[Umlaut]

Bahahaha

I assumed that my role in moving us all from a seemingly inevitable lurker lynch onto lynching a

Mafia PR

yesterday would have put me above suspicion but I should know better than to expect common sense.

[Umlaut]

I would like to inform you of the concept known as "bussing"

Interesting, I can't wait to learn about it! Proceed to inform me.

[Umlaut]

I would like to inform you of the concept known as "bussing"

Interesting, I can't wait to learn about it! Proceed to inform me.

Bussing is the act of distancing yourself from your scum partners, usually by helping to lynch them (and hopefully playing a major role in convincing others that they are worthy to be lynched). The term "bussing" comes from the phrase "to throw under the bus", which means sacrificing them to gain credibility. The 'bussee' is the player being thrown under the bus, and the 'busser' is the one doing it.

The effectiveness of this technique varies, mostly because it has been around practically since the beginning of the game of Mafia.

Amazing! You are truly a fountain of information. Tell me, is busing usually done by waiting until the last minute of Day 1 and then pushing the lynch

off

of a safe lynch the perpretrator would have taken pretty much zero heat for,

onto

a scumbuddy with a power role, who was otherwise at basically zero risk of being lynched at any point throughout the day?

(Pedantic sidenote:

busing

/

bussing

is one of those annoying words where both spellings look wrong, but I'm pretty sure the former is the according-to-Merriam standard)

[Umlaut]

I think Wake is a really good SK suspect

I could believe Wake SK, but what makes him a

really good

suspect beyond the ultra-lurking?

[Umlaut]

I'm on Black Ranger's side. Agree with pretty much all of post 862.
VOTE: Umlaut

Could you itemize this "pretty much all" for me? I think the points vary pretty dramatically in quality and I'd like to know which ones you agree with.

[Umlaut]

Honestly, real-life obligations or no, I think we kind of have to lynch Wake if he doesn't start playing the game.

[Umlaut]

Umlaut: how pure is this wagon?

ManateeDude (6) -

bob3141

, Umlaut,

Titus

, Nahdia, SirCakez,

osuka

[L-2]

Just saw this as I was in the middle of making some colored-in votecounts myself. I'm trying to figure out just that. Probably should just reread Nahdia and SirCakez specifically; I never thought the pushes on Cakez were very good but that doesn't make him town.

I still think the way Drew positioned himself with regard to the wagon is more like how I imagine scum wanting to position themselves with regard to a town wagon, setting up to "reluctantly" put his vote there. So probably Manatee isn't group scum.

[Umlaut]

In the interest of actually spurring myself to do something today, here's the vote count when the Manatee wagon was at its highest (orange removed because of reasons):

VC 1.15

Fenraiser

osuka

NorwegianBoyEE (1) -

Drew-STA

ManateeDude (6) -

bob3141

, Umlaut,

Titus

, Nahdia, SirCakez,

osuka

[L-2]
Black Ranger

bob3141

(1) - Fenraiser
Wake88
fwogcarf
Umlaut

Titus

Drew-Sta

CantLynchAPuppy
SirCakez (4) - NorwegianBoyEE, ManateeDude, CantLynchAPuppy, fwogcarf [L-4]
Nahdia (1) - Black Ranger

Not Voting

(1) - Wake88

With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.

Deadline

: (expired on 2020-06-09 12:00:00)

Every confirmed-town player was on the Manatee wagon (and also I was). So if we think scum was on the wagon then fmpov it has to be Nahdia or SirCakez.

And here was the vote count at end of day:

VC 1.19

Fenraiser

osuka

NorwegianBoyEE (1) -

Drew-STA

ManateeDude (1) - SirCakez
Black Ranger

bob3141

Wake88
fwogcarf
Umlaut

Titus

Drew-Sta

(8) -

osuka

, ManateeDude, Umlaut,

Titus

, NorwegianboyEE, Fenraiser,

bob3141

, Nahdia [L-0]

CantLynchAPuppy
SirCakez (1) - CantLynchAPuppy
Nahdia (1) - Black Ranger

Not Voting

(1) - Wake88

With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.

Deadline

: (expired on 2020-06-09 12:00:00)

Now here, I really find it unlikely that scum would have bused (unless it was Manatee, but I think that's unlikely too for the reasons I already said). This wagon was seriously last minute and if I were scum watching it grow I would not have seriously expected it to reach a lynch in time and, even after I saw I was wrong about that, I probably would have just pretended I wasn't around for the rest of the day in hopes of reaching deadline without having to take a position. If there is scum here it's probably Nahdia deciding that someone was probably going to hammer anyway so they may as well get the credit for it, but their approach to it is towny and 824 is a pretty weird followup for someone who is busing. If I'm scum!Nahdia deciding to bus there then I just come in and say "Deadline is close" and hammer, I don't dither about it.

SirCakez started the day by saying

Ok so I'm aware I don't look great here

and I wasn't really sure why at the moment. After looking at these counts, I agree: he really doesn't look great. He naked-voted onto the Manatee wagon in a way that and then disappeared when the Drew wagon appeared. Would vote here.

[Umlaut]

He naked-voted onto the Manatee wagon in a way that

...I want to EBWOP this, but honestly I don't recall what I was going to write here. Probably should have said "...at a

time when

voting onto the consensus wagon was safe."

[Umlaut]

I'll be honest, I've been suspicious of Fenraiser for quite a while now

How long of a while? Can you point to where in the thread these suspicions started?

[Umlaut]

I agree Drew was bussed but I don't know if it necessarily implicates Manatee

Who do you agree with? Who has actually espoused the view that Drew was bused?

[Umlaut]

I mean, I guess Black Ranger has but I'm ignoring that because it's ridiculous.

[Umlaut]

the arguement that im scumbuddies with Drew is bizarre honestly. on top of the fact that I was in a way worse place and mafia neopolitan is a fairly strong role especially in a (near) mini so it seems unlikely a stronger mafia role exists. why would I bus drew like that at EoD?? I was in a substantially worse place then him and lynching me if I was scum is always a better scenario bc I have next to no associations

I agree that the arguments I've seen made for this are bad, but I don't think it's

prima facie

unthinkable that at the time you made that vote you wouldn't actually expect the Drew wagon to go anywhere with as little time as there was left, so it would just be for distancing purposes, and then once it became a serious lynch wagon it was too late to unvote.

[Umlaut]

VOTE: SirCakez

Liking this better than Black Ranger now, my head still says BR's play at EOD yesterday was scummy but I'm not really feeling scum-under-pressure vibes from how he's posting today.

[Umlaut]

Osuka crumbed doc and softed backup during bob's claim. This is why they were shot. I really doubt anyone missed this and anyone claiming to is suspect.

I missed this, but I suck at spotting crumbs (I thought Bob was saying he was doctor actually)

[Umlaut]

Wake pls

We're halfway through day 2, after a day 1 that ran to deadline, and you haven't cast a vote yet this game.

I get that you're crazy busy but if you're going to play this game you have to... play this game.

[Umlaut]

Takes 6 to lynch.

@Manatee
Any reason you're not voting your scumread?

VOTE: Cakez

laziness

I realize the position of Moon Logic Dispenser has already been filled in this game, but I really want to call this a town post.

[Umlaut]

@Wake

:

Yeah.

We're running out of time and these wagons need to be consolidated.

Thanks for pointing out the obvious

Vote drew please

Reason?

I don't want this lynch but I would still do it, if the alternative is you, manatee or no lynch, what would do you, drew?

These are the only posts I could really regard as declining to join the wagon. Nahdia's 824 also seemed not too psyched about the wagon but they did join it after all. None of CantLynchAPuppy, SirCakez, or fwogcarf posted at all yesterday after the Drew wagon appeared.

[Umlaut]

I discovered these facts by

reading the thread

from the point where the Drew wagon started; you too can discover facts in this way

[Umlaut]

VOTE: Wake88

Can we just lynch this? All indications are that Wake is going to continue as he has begun. At this point I don't really care what the reasons are; even if he's town, that means town is short one voice and one vote for as long as he lives.

[Umlaut]

Oh, so you are reading!

[Umlaut]

Votes aren't the only way to bus someone. BR's reads progression regarding Drew didn't match his EOD behavior interactions with Drew or any one else. Coupled with Umlaut's post early in the day, I think BR knew Drew would flip scum and knew Drew was probably gonna be the lynch so he simultaneously distanced himself from Drew by not voting and saying he doesn't want to lynch Drew and set up the idea of an Umlaut mislynch via association.

The second sentence of this is something I think I was saying, but I don't think the rest of it is. There is more to busing someone than voting but it's kind of a necessary component. This might just be a disagreement over the semantics of the word, though I really don't know how "not voting for someone and saying you don't want to lynch them" can in any way be construed as busing.

(Aside: I'm going to consider a "lynch all uwuers" policy for my next game)

[Umlaut]

VOTE: Wake88

Can we just lynch this?

I'm assuming the lack of response is a no?

[Umlaut]

is there stuff he said

No

[Umlaut]

That's actually a good point. It only means anything if he actually votes him though.

VOTE: Black Ranger

[Umlaut]

Umalut any particular reason you're voting so wildly

I don't think I am voting wildly, but in general I have noticed lately that I move my vote around more than most players (check out these voting histories from a recently completed game).

Do you think a Wake/Ranger team exists?

I'm assuming you mean, do I think such a team is plausible?

Sure, Wake could in principle be scum with anyone. I guess it would be a little strange for him to choose Black Ranger to scumread in that case, but not if he's just going to say "oh hey he looks scummy" and then disappear for the rest of the day and never vote him.

[Umlaut]

Happy Scumday, Cakez!

Hi.

Don't misrepresent me.

I said I'd be open to voting him. Meaning, I'd be open to voting him.

Don't mistake that for me saying I am voting him.

Scum typically misrepresent Townies. Do not do this again.

When did I say you were voting or promising to vote him? I didn't. So in fact you are misrepresenting me.

[Umlaut]

Let's lynch in Fenraiser Wake Ranger and Manatee today.

Out of these I'd much prefer Wake or Ranger to either of the other two.

[Umlaut]

So far, if and when you want to have been "no" and "never" respectively. Voting for your scumreads is in my experience a far more effective method of lynching them than saying "I would be open to voting them" is.

[Umlaut]

Wake: "You can't make me contribute anything to this game, maybe I will if I feel like it"

[Umlaut]

On this very page I have already gotten you to post more by complaining about it.

[Umlaut]

VOTE: Wake88

Can we just lynch this? All indications are that Wake is going to continue as he has begun. At this point I don't really care what the reasons are; even if he's town, that means town is short one voice and one vote for as long as he lives.

This doesn't look like "I don't care," it looks like you cared enough to take time out of your busy schedule and dig up the perfect gif to express "fuck you for wanting to lynch me for my activity level."

[Umlaut]

It's been three days since we had a VC and I have no idea where the wagons are, so I put this together.

Totally unofficial and unreliable vote count

Fenraiser (2) - Titus, fwogcarf
NorwegianboyEE (1) - SirCakez
ManateeDude (0)
Black Ranger (2) - Nahdia, Umlaut
Wake88 (1) - NorwegianboyEE
fwogcarf (0)
Umlaut (0)
Titus (0)
CantLynchAPuppy (0)
SirCakez (1) - ManateeDude
Nahdia (2) - Black Ranger, Fenraiser

Not Voting (2) - Wake88, CantLynchAPuppy

Answer: The wagons are nowhere. No one has more than two votes. We're all over the place.

[Umlaut]

VOTE: Wake

Norwegian, me, fwog, Cakez, that's four.

[Umlaut]

@mod The VC shows Black Ranger voting Wake88; Black Ranger is voting Nahdia

(though I'd prefer he be voting Wake)

fixed. thank you, Umlaut!

[Umlaut]

Wake has enough support to get to at least L-1 assuming he's still in your lynchpool, Titus.

[Umlaut]

Let's get Wake up to L-1 for lurking and then fastwagon someone else at the last second, that usually works pretty well.

[Umlaut]

It's not really a good point if you read my next post. If the SK makes it to night the mafia then have a dilemma in weighing whether the nurse was more like a UB and whether there's a town doc (if they have a maf doc) vs shooting titus vs believing the sk will do it for them. Now that I revealed my suspicions the SK will also calculate this in reverse, but with less information available to them, if they haven't already.

Where are you getting maf doc from? Not saying it's impossible but it's a weird thing to assume.

(It's not obvious to me there's a doctor at all, having a nurse without a doctor is not really that unheard of. Recently played a game that had both a nurse and a deputy with neither a doctor nor a cop.)

[Umlaut]

That's L-1

[Umlaut]

Yeah, Umlaut can be town.

Umlaut can be not-mafia, rather.

If I were Not_Mafia I would just policy vote myself.

Regarding Black Ranger:

I think it's pretty clear that he thought Manatee was a better lynch than Drew when he said he didn't want the Drew wagon. Being wrong about a lynch isn't scummy.

This looks like you're reading a completely different game. Take another look at Black Ranger's stated views on Drew and Manatee throughout Day 1.

Spoiler: A bunch of quotes

I'd want Drew over Bob over Cakez but I also have zero desire to engage the Drew slot

Just putting that out there before I do this

VOTE: Drew

Just in case I fuck up and blank vote to consolidate later today:

because nahdia's bracket reads are popular this game apparently. i'm of no relation.

{Fwog, Osuka, Norwegian}
{Manatee, Puppy, Cakez}
{Fenraiser, Nahdia, bob}
{Umlaut, Drew}
{Wake}

town townlean scumlean scum waketier

Will compromise anyone outside of the townie 6.

Dislike Drew, Umlaut and bob overusing the word ping. I started noticing it when I first "pinged" Drew that apparently everything pings drew. Then suddenly everything pings bob. Umlaut has been enjoying calling things reachy in one liners. It's just lazy and I don't see Drew's initial case on Umlaut (above post) as being real. Add to the fact that I felt like Umlaut was trying to launch us out of RVS by page two I'd like to mercy kill these two slots. I could probably come up with something more compelling but this is where I'm at without making a wall.

If only because we need improved votes, sure.

VOTE: bob

Bob needs to get off Manatee. Whoever is still on fwog should be put on notice.

oh my vote remains on cakez because I think most of his ISO has been nonsense and his reaction to votes on him has not been good esp the thing I pointed out earlier with twisting words

his sr on cakez is fine i just feel like cakez doesn't look for what would be a fight with me as scum. i can see cakez' push in a town light too.

I

really

dislike your "how are your posts not as bad as cakez" push onto Manatee. That's some gaslighting shit.

Not everyone needs 60 posts day 1.

Let's see

we have wake
puppy doesn't really count because their pred did ok, only started flaking their last day
manatee
then there's drew who isn't much below nahdia

well, they're not all scum. if we want to talk about absences then yes it's troubling that we have people squatting on a dead wagon.

Where was this willingness to lynch drew when it mattered? Because some end of day show that you would

totally lynch Drew guys

doesn't mean shit to anyone.

Do you think Manatee is scum, or do you think my brilliant scumplay here is to actively draw attention to myself in order to dismantle a wagon on town at the end of the day?

No I quite literally believed you and Drew were scum. I'm still running the calculations.

He consistently scumread Drew. He consistently didn't scumread Manatee, or at least didn't say anything about it if he did, and certainly didn't say anything positive about the lynch wagon on Manatee. He said Drew and I were scum together, and when I started pushing Drew at the end of the day he said that

confirmed

Drew and I were scum together (but didn't vote him or me(!)).

The only post I could have taken as saying he "didn't want the Drew wagon" was 772, and that's how I originally took that post when I saw it. But Black Ranger himself has proscribed that reading of his own post:

Yeah okay this is all very cool

It's clear I was referring to the Manatee wagon from that post and one I made to Drew later:

I don't want this lynch but I would still do it,

if the alternative is you

, manatee or no lynch, what would do you, drew?

He insists that in this post 'you' was Manatee, and Manatee was the lynch he didn't want (but would accept over a no-lynch).

[Umlaut]

I'm comfortable with Cakez if there's enough support for it. I haven't seen enough support for it yet (and I'm bristling enough at your unilateral assertion that "we're not lynching Wake" that it makes me loath to move my vote).

[Umlaut]

Who do you think is SK if not me? Because not me.

[Umlaut]

Manatee is the "this" and Drew is the "you". I'm speaking to him in 772 re: his 771.

That actually makes more sense than what I said and I believe that is genuinely your intent on writing it. Anyway, the important part is that Manatee was the lynch that you said you didn't want; you never said you didn't want Drew lynched. That's exactly what I was trying to convey to Lucky, thank you for confirming it!

[Umlaut]

I'm telling you that pushing a Wake lynch today is bad for the town. You can assume I'm talking out of my ass or you can assume that I might know or see something you don't. To take neither stance and instead just wave away my statement is odd at best.

I honestly missed most of 1153 and only went back to read it after this.

Fine. But your reasoning had better come out at some point.

VOTE: SirCakez

I still don't agree with you about Black Ranger and I don't see how upon finding out a critical part of your read on Black Ranger is just wrong you so quickly found a new interpretation where that part doesn't actually matter and ended up with the same read.

[Umlaut]

Gotta go fast.

Spoiler:

[Umlaut]

Have to say I agree with what seems to be the consensus that Lucky's play today is towny. (I reserve the right to get wildly paranoid about him in the late game if we're both still around but hopefully by then we'll have more associative evidence to go on.)

[Umlaut]

Umlaut, can I get a full reads list from you? I see you trying to consolidate wagons a lot, but I don't see you putting forth original ideas today.

Haven't really had original ideas today after my original noting of Black Ranger's EOD behavior, or bothered to form coherent reads on anyone outside the handful of slots I've voted. If you think that's lazy then you are correct. I'll take some time to reread people today and get a real read list for you.

[Umlaut]

I'll take some time to reread people today and get a real read list for you.

I'm... not actually going to do this tonight

Feel free to be on my case about it tomorrow

[Umlaut]

I just looked and I hadn't realized we were down to less than 24 hours, what's the vote count rn?

[Umlaut]

Eh, I'll make my own again. Assuming 1189 was correct:

Another blatantly unauthorized vote count with no guarantee of accuracy

Fenraiser (5) - fwogcarf, Titus, SirCakez, Black Ranger, LuckyLuciano
SirCakez (4) - ManateeDude, Umlaut, NorwegianboyEE, Nahdia

Not Voting

(1) - Wake88, Fenraiser

[Umlaut]

I will go and reread Fenraiser but I need an explanation of how we went from "always lynch off the Drew wagon" to lynching Fen.

[Umlaut]

Wake hasn't posted in over 4 days

[Umlaut]

Intent: Fenraiser

This is mostly in the interest of getting a claim while we still have some daylight left, but if he's the only available lynch I'll take it so the intent isn't entirely fictitious

[Umlaut]

You don't get to refuse to play the game and then stall a wagon without giving a reason.

VOTE: Fen.

We're in a much, much better position if we lynch Nahdia first imo.

I agree that we should lynch between Nahdia/Cakez today, but I'm leaning scum on Fenraiser anyway and I'm done tryharding this game. Just gonna sit around and do nothing for a bit.

This doesn't make any sense, why would you move off your preferred lynch which is at L-1 to another wagon?

[Umlaut]

Not altogether opposed, he's been in my nulls all game, but I think we've had some better wagons today (like you)

[Umlaut]

Looking at the votes on Fenraiser:

I'd say everyone is town except Umlaut

Let's start a wagon on him then if there isn't already

VOTE: Fenraiser

wat

[Umlaut]

Oh yeah, you are scumreading me aren't you. I actually am going to ignore that as you suggested, odds are the real SK will die eventually so unless you're aiming to lynch me I don't see the need to argue the point.

My questioning is less about voting Fenraiser in particular and more just confusion about writing "I'd say everyone is town except Umlaut" and then immediately voting not-me.

[Umlaut]

Okay, that makes more sense. Didn't carefully read the post he was replying to so didn't notice the initial question.

[Umlaut]

Also, I think the mod forgot that he's running a game. We haven't had an official vote count in forever, Nahdia still needs to be replaced, Wake should have been announced as being replaced 15 hours ago, Fenraiser should have been prodded 2 hours ago, and the mod is off playing other games instead of administrating his own. That definitely doesn't help the health of the game.

Mod hasn't even posted in Replacement Requests for Nahdia's slot.

Intent is still in place for Fen, if it gets too close to deadline I'll hammer.

[Umlaut]

I have two theories for the lack of Nahdia!replacement

1) Mod thinks we're about to crush from their pov obvscum and knows night will be paused
2) Mod is talking to their backup they hand on hand during the Puppy replacement when they asked if Luciano could rep in instead

(1) is irl wolfy but i'm just putting that out there

Spoiler:

[Umlaut]

@mod Fenraiser is also due for a prod

fen was also prodded.

[Umlaut]

Would have been nice to hold out for a claim first but honestly I'm okay with this.

Welcome to the game, see you tomorrow.

[Umlaut]

I’m not really seeing that many convincing arguments yet and that’s probably why i can’t pay much attention to all that’s going on. I’m keeping my vote on Cakez and suggest we lynch there. But all in all i’d jusy like to end day 1 so discussion maybe will have more meaning to me.

You can be unconvinced and wanting to see better arguments, or you can be looking to end the day, but you can't be both. That's not a town mindset at all.

I should have just posted this over and over again after I saw it instead of letting myself get distracted.

[Umlaut]

Though tbf I was 'distracted' into lynching Drew so I suppose not so bad