Large Normal 92 - Game Over! Scum Win!

[Dust]

Hello all!

Well, seeing as Ace will inevitably hold me to the meta I made for myself in Open 143, I cannot help but state my continued dissatisfaction with the RVS. The last two times I've done this, I've gotten the better majority of the Town on my ass, but somehow managed to survive. O.o'

That said, I'll be trying a different approach then used in the last two times.

@Mastin- If you're claiming scum, as well as your partners, are you truly playing for your win condition? I think that's a rule violation. XP

[Dust]

I am completely with Nanook. I was thinking the same he was.

I can't believe I signed up for this mess

Thirding all of this.

Please note that I hesitated to vote for you because I thought there may have been some win condition that you could gain from posting like that. You were just being a bit TOO obvious if you were a player with a lynch winning condition.

Hm... It seems pretty clear to me that Mastin is insane, and that any attempt to divine rhyme or reason from his RVS posts will end in failure Interestingly enough, this is the most effective way of playing the RVS I've ever seen...

That said, I'd like to call attention to Amished, whose flip-flopped on Mastin's erraticism, when he stopped voting me and started voting Mastin.

Unvote

(Not sure if I did so to begin with)

FoS: Amished

[Dust]

If I have to read his thoughts on every single line posted by every single other player, I'll replace out. There is entirely too much fluff/stuff that didn't need to be commented on that he is, wasting all of our time.

I can understand that sentiment, actually. If it really does get too out of hand, the game stops being fun.

Anyway, as for your voting, I appreciate the clarification, because I agree about his playstyle. With his combination of over-commentary and erraticism, we'll be thrown into chaos, and lose. I think we can, however, make a legitimate case forcing Mastin to either abandon his style in favor of something more helpful, or lynch him.

Let's give it our best try before resorting to things like replacing out, eh?

Vote: Mastin

Enough posting shenanigans, por favor.

[Dust]

I do appreciate the effort to keep your posts shorter, Mastin. In a game with 30 people, every little bit counts to keep the game manageable. Anyway, on to relevancy!

With Mastin's statement of intent to keep his posting under control, I'll withdraw my vote of him.

Unvote

I agree with Cat in that Mastin is just as unreadable, if not more so, than Zwetschenwasser, which is quite an accomplishment. Of course, it also makes you incredibly dangerous. Just by your nature, I'll be watching you closely.

On a different point, I'd like to call Stevie on misrepresentation of my point against Mastin. I'm calling for less fluff, not less discussion. Fluff is inherently destructive to the town. It's distracting, it's not relevant for the game at large except for being looked upon as fluff, and can make it harder for replacements to deal with.

Oh yes, and Stevie? To get Mastin to shorten the fluff in his posts, there had to be some threat of repercussions, such as a lynch. That said, I think it was perfectly warranted that I proposed the strategy to accomplish those ends.

[Dust]

OBJECTION!

[quote= "Dust"]
Anyway, as for your voting, I appreciate the clarification, because I agree about his playstyle. With

his combination of

over-commentary

and erraticism

, we'll be thrown into chaos, and lose. I think we can, however, make a legitimate case forcing Mastin to either abandon his style in favor of something more helpful, or lynch him. [/quote]

[Dust]

Wow, Tag Fail.

Anyway, as for your voting, I appreciate the clarification, because I agree about his playstyle.

With his combination of

over-commentary

and erraticism, we'll be thrown into chaos, and lose.

I think we can, however, make a legitimate case forcing Mastin to either abandon his style in favor of something more helpful, or lynch him.

[Dust]

Hm, I think it comes down to semantics. By over-commentary, I meant that you would pick out every single line, even fluff, and comment. Hence, more commentary than necessary, and thus, over-commentary.

[Dust]

Misrepresentation again, Stevie. I accomplished what I wished to accomplish. There was no reason to vote Mastin further.

[Dust]

Oh, come off it Mastin... I haven't posted in a day, and I'm lurking?

That said, please, rehash your argument against me. These last pages have basically been you attesting to my scumhood, from what I recall, but I'd like to know all the points before I address them.

---

Mod-Edit Votecount 1-6

Mastin - 5

(Caboose, Devestation, Amished, zu_Faul, Empking's Alt)

Zwetschenwasser - 2

(AceMarksman, zer0ph34r)

Dust - 2

(Mastin, StevieT92)

zer0ph34r - 1

(zwetschenwasser)

zu_Faul - 1

(Maturin24)

killa seven - 1

(OrangePenguin)

NanooktheWolf - 1

(cateraction)

hewitt - 1

(zoraster)

OrangePenguin - 1

(Azhrei)

Not Voting - 13

(Everyone Else)

With 27 alive, it takes 14 to lynch.

Seeking a replacement for over_9000.

[Dust]

No time like the present for posting, Mastin. ; D

[Dust]

Alright, in order:

1. Meta is important for understanding the behavior of all players involved. It'd be a shame to have misunderstandings about behavior based upon meta. I find myself in the perilous trap that I might break away from my past behavior, and be seen for scum when I'm not. This can be seen as an important scum thing, but it's an equally important town tactic to make sure the Town doesn't waste it's time following up on an argument that holds discrepancies with the meta simply because it does.

2. Your posts got us out of the RVS, but they'll stall us in the context of the real game.

3. How does an FoS make me scummy?

4. Refer to point 2.

5.

A. Policy lynchs, although not always effective, can be useful in accomplishing pro-town goals. For instance, threat of a policy lynch made you shorten your posts, if only by a bit, thus assisting the town by not bogging down the game.
B. No explanation for this one. It happened because it happened.
C. You'll have to forgive me for not seeing the wisdom in every line of each of your posts around page 3, was it? There was definitely legitimacy in calling your actions 'shenanigans' once we exitted the RVS, and the length of your posts wasn't decreasing and the quality wasn't increasing.
D. My vote was to make an effect on your playstyle, as I said previously.

6. Forgive me, but perhaps you misunderstood my last post after asking for your argument summary. That was actually an explanation for my own return, not a call for you to rush your arguments. If someone calls your name, do you answer? Not seeing how my reentrance to the game after Mastin's accusation is anything more than circumstantial.

[Dust]

Hm... I apologize for not being as active as I would like here. This game takes a lot more thought than my other games, simply due to the number of people who must be considered.

That said, yesterday I was sort of thinking Orangepenguin was scum, but today, what with Devestation's odd claiming behavior, I think too many things aren't adding up in his case of Mastin as Lyncher.

That said, tonight I'll be doing Iso-Post analysis of OP and Devest, as that seems to be the best way, at this point, to get a better feel for what someone is actually saying, and not what someone is saying they're saying.

Vote Devestation

Case is coming tonight... Damn school.

[Dust]

So, wait? Devestation is actually telling the truth, and Mastin is admitting to being a lyncher...

Something feels off. Severely off.

At this point, though, I couldn't tell you what I felt was wrong if I tried. These two consecutive claims, on Day 1, when no one was near a lynch... It feels peculiar. I'm going to go back and reread Mastin-Devestation *my poor eyes*, dropping the OP read-through in light of newer events, and get back to you guys with my findings. *If I ever finish. This is Mastin I'll be trying to reread...*

[Dust]

Ok, on a brief, brief scan through, I wanted to throw these questions out there. My goal of this initial run was to find out my big underlying questions about Mastin and Devestation, and to divine, in a way, their truthfulness.

Here are the questions to/about Mastin:

-Why would you breadcrumb an anti-town role, especially as early in the game as you did?
-Were you playing any differently during this day than you would have as town?
-What do you believe now that you yourself have admitted intentional tunneling?

Here are my questions to/about Devestation:

-Why Mastin?
-Exactly when did you send in your request for Mastin's role? Like, after what post?
-What did you hope to achieve by outing Mastin?

Here are other assorted questions:

-Stevie withheld his opinions on Mastin. What are they now?

When he claims. It's not like my read of him is important or would change anyone's mind. I wanna see what he would claim first though, because if he claims anything other than what I'm thinking, then he's probably scum. Which would mean it would wait for at least day 2.

-RedCoyote, were you informed of your status as a Lynchee? I figured I'd ask, even though it's not standard procedure, because the roles in this game are all seeming fairly non-standard, and you might know.
-To the Town at large- How valid are Mastin's previous arguments in the context of his roleclaim?

My opinions, summarized:

-Mastin is being truthful. This isn't any gambit I can tell. There's no motivation for one that I can see within the game. By claiming Lyncher, and suggesting that if the town wants to be rid of him asking for a vigkill eliminates the possibility, in my mind, of him being Jester or Mafia.
-Devestation, although his motives are unclear, is also being truthful. His claim against Mastin, as well as Mastin's initial resistance, followed by acceptance, seems too real to be a fabricated maneuver. The bussing they'd have had to have been doing on Day 1 to actually be scum is mind-bogglingly ineffective.

General Commentary:

-I think Mastin played a really bold move here, regardless of his actual role, and that the town can truly benefit from his actions. It is, as I said before, weird and 'off'. But that's because it's unconventional. What we have now is a lot more information than we ever had before. We basically have three new lens (Mastin, Devestation, and RedCoyote) through which to view the game, an advantage very few towns ever have on Day 1. For that, I'd like to applaud Mastin.

[Dust]

Mod-Edit Votecount 1-11

Mastin - 5

(Caboose, Devestation, zu_Faul, Empking's Alt, orangepenguin)

Devestation - 4

(Tarhalindur, Azhrei, Dust, Maturin24)

OrangePenguin - 2

(cateraction, zwetschenwasser)

Zwetschenwasser - 2

(AceMarksman, zer0ph34r)

Dust - 2

(StevieT92, Mastin)

hewitt - 1

(zoraster)

zer0ph34r - 1

(ryan2754)

Not Voting - 10

(Everyone Else)

With 27 alive, it takes 14 to lynch.

Seeking a replacement for over_9000.

---

Oh, crud. I forgot to

Unvote

.

[Dust]

The thing is, Mastin is not directly harmful to the town. His goal, as I understand it, is to lynch RedCoyote. It won't happen. He can't win. That said, Mastin is best left to the care of a vig, or even left alive, to help us how he can. That said, I don't see why you're pushing for the lynch of an anti-town player who can't win.

[Dust]

Anti-town alignment, for example, does not equal anti-town intent. Call me a fool, but I think Mastin's intent is genuine. There's not another explanation for his actions.

[Dust]

I still stand by the fact that I want to hear Mastin's answers to my questions before going any further. He shouldn't be our lynch for today. If there's some vig out there who wants him dead at night, fine by me. But today, not Mastin, Devestation, or Coyote.

@Ryan- Can you explain to me why they would do a gambit like this? Mastin's behavior, especially his sudden explanation, doesn't feel gambit-ish, because I think it's true. If Mastin can't lynch RedCoyote, he loses. That kind of sudden turn around, I'm really not sure it's a gambit.

@Stevie- Yes, I know that my own sudden reversal on the issue looks odd, but trust me, the reread-through changed the context of everything.

@All- I highly recommend that the skeptics reread the game.

@Mastin- This is the longest you've gone without posting!

I honestly can't help but feel that this is honest.

[Dust]

Agreeing with Ace on this one. If Mastin is not lying, RC is most likely town. What's up with the votes on him, anyway?

If there are people I want gone right now, they would be the people still pushing for Mastin's lynch, but more notably King, whose returned from Lurkerland to vote for a player who will likely get nightkilled anyway. I have no clue why OP is still pushing for a Mastin lynch.

I'm undecided between the two of who deserves a vote more, but we'll see how it plays out in these next pages.

FoS: OrangePenguin and King

[Dust]

It's likely that our JAOT's has a Vig function. Why don't we simply ask Devest to do it?

[Dust]

Technically speaking, lynching Mastin really wouldn't clear anyone but possibly Devestation, because we do not know whether or not he's lying about RC.

That said, lynching Mastin for a confirmation on Devestation really doesn't do us much good, in that regard, as likely, the Mafia will simply nightkill Devestation if he gets confirmed Town. If we were getting two confirmations out of his lynch, it might be worth it, but just one doesn't justify lynching him for information alone.

[Dust]

I believe Devestation said that he can only win Day 2 and onward.

*I'm still here, just very busy with finals, etc.*

[Dust]

Mastin, Your role name is Lyncher. You can't get your target lynched until day two, so you've got yourself 5 or so people, including the lynchee, to be classified as scum. Where you failed and what made me want to investigate you is that you couldnt be moved on the general core membership of that 5.

There ya go.

[Dust]

I'm really busy with finals, lately, so

Mod, please pardon my V/LA

until June 2nd.

I still trust Mastin. His logic and defense are incredibly sound, and he's provided all of the logic for the assertions he's making. I dislike ZeroPhear's play, but perhaps not enough to vote him.

Mod, can we get a votecount?