Large Normal 92 - Game Over! Scum Win!

[Kise]

Thank you. I did not intend to post until reading up a bit, but I can feel the love.

[Kise]

Thanks, but you came a little too late.. I saw some of Mastin's post and they made my head hurt.. Good God, does every single post have to be so spaced out[?]

Orange, you could have saved me a headache earlier, honestly. But if Mastin outright claimed lyncher, then he admits to not being down with the town, eh? Quite a screw up, unless I'm looking at this the wrong way and it's possible for lyncher to be pro-town.

Vote: Mastin

[Kise]

There's been no scumhunting so far...? What have you guys been doing for 29 pages?!

[Kise]

Well, I always figured a 3rd Party was against the town up until the lynchee got NK'd, where the lyncher would then join town. But now that I think about it, hewitt.... FFS, we're in a 27 player game... Do we really need to keep a 3rd party alive until he's possibly converted?

If we could vote for a No Lynch, I'd be cool with that, honestly. Then we could let Dev & any other investigative roles do their thing during NP.

White Castle ---> It sounds really really dirty when you ask if Mastin got fingered... just letting you know. But in all seriousness, Mastin was apparently told by Jebus that he'll have to wait and find out what happens if the lynchee is lynched, meaning there's no telling if the game continues or if it ends.

Also, White Castle ---> The JOAT can reveal himself on D1 because that means that a medic role should be alive and can protect him at night while he uses one of his 1-shot abilities. All JOAT are confirmed townies (unless of course they're lying about it in the first place). I've never been in a game where the JOAT was anti-town... the Mod would have to be one evil SOB to pull that one.

[Kise]

Lol, you guys really want to get rid of Mastin..

I have to ask where this talk of Masons comes from though? Why did the possibility of a Mason being in the game get brought up, and is Mastin under that group as well?

[Kise]

Dev' got very lucky with that 1-shot cop...

I'm not going to push too hard, but I agree with the general consensus that it's no harm to lynch Mastin since he's 3rd Party. This game still has many players left, and it'll honestly run for about 2 months. Hewitt gives me the impression that he has a suicidal role...

If we delay this day phase any longer, I guarantee it will be filled with nothing but more of Mastin having to defend himself and people getting on his case. (Soak, lather, rinse, repeat)

Hewitt, if you honestly can produce something valuable out of this.. clusterf**k of a situation, then please speak up. I'm willing to take my vote off, but I'd rather see progress being made with Mastin's death.

What kind of scumhunting can we do if Mastin is just going to be the central focus of everyone's post? By lynching him, we can eliminate all distraction and move on. If you have anything better to offer, please say so soon.

[Kise]

Why is Mastin still here?

Lmao

I agreed with what I read in the highlights, Zora. Mafia can use this

"Mastin show"

as a way to distract townies from having suspicions about them. Since we have no idea who the lynchee is, I'd rather not take the chance of accidentally lynching Mastin's target and losing the game.

If not Mastin, then who do we lynch? There needs to be 14 votes or else we'll hit deadline, and that's virtually the same as the dreaded No Lynch...

[Kise]

I honestly have no idea what you where you were trying to take that statement... confusing, indeed.

[Kise]

I'm gonna join King and just pop in here and there... Very bored with the defending and/or accusing of Mastin...

Large Normal 92 = The Mastin Show

Unvote

[Kise]

I unvoted because I'm gonna let this drag for 2 more weeks until you guys get bored with yourselves. Can I ask why OP is the 2nd highest wagon? What are the strong reasons people are voting against him?

[Kise]

No, it's The Mastin Show as long as people push for his lynch. But to your defense, OP, I don't see anything wrong with assuming their would be more than 1 mafia family. I doubt the mod PM'd that kind of info to whoever is mafia; so that the game would remain in the guessing stages.

I think it might be better to go for someone who acts scummy, and try not to vote out the lynchee.

[Kise]

Actually, RedCoyote, I have gone back to read the older post (using the 'Display Post From Previous' drop-down box). Yes, Caboose is tunneling, but I've known terrible town players to do the same. He may not be too open-minded about it all, but he's not acting like scum... just stubborn.

I'm not biting the bait for a vote against OP yet. However, I'm not a big fan of Empking's minimal activity. Not to start an argument with him, but just pointing it out.

[Kise]

If you do come back to reply, Mastin, please do the following:

Lighten up on defending yourself, because with 11 votes on you, it's obviously not working. Try talking about better suspects to vote for and give reasons. FOCUS on those reasons. Defending yourself = talking about yourself, which in turn = people not caring.

[Kise]

@WC - Hell nah I haven't read the whole thread! I jump from every odd numbered page, then I'll check every post Mastin made, then check every post OP made, then every post KoC made, every post he made, every post she made, everybody post they made, yadda yadda.

@Phoebus - Why would I want to start an arguement? I'm just saying I don't like his minimal activity... I can't throw that out there? There's really nothing to talk about. I already have an understanding that King is sitting on his vote and waiting for the lynch, or waiting for 2 weeks to pass. That's him.. nothing more, nothing less. So no argument is required because then it's just a waste of my energy.

[Kise]

Yeah, I probably do think think they're the same guy. I was referring to whichever one of them comes through every few days and makes an activity-post.

And I JUST noticed that Mastin has a post at the top of this page, lol. Silly me...

[Kise]

*crawls into a cave to hibernate for 2 weeks*

[Kise]

If you bring some nachos, then sure.

NO SPOONING!!

[Kise]

Vote for cateraction?

[Kise]

zzzZZZzzzZZzzZ

[Kise]

What does ISO mean?

What are you people doing in this game?

Napping.

[Kise]

Fine, fine. I'll do something.

Vote: Mastin

[Kise]

@Amished - Yeah I did that ever since I replaced KoC. I found some interesting stuff on people. And by interesting, I mean.... well, nevermind. Don't want to discuss anything 'til day 2.

[Kise]

I'm sick of this day phase. Face it, hewitt, NO ONE is going to bandwagon onto OP or Caboose. Damn sure not 14 people. The 11 others voting for Mastin are stubborn; they won't unvote him because they have their personal beliefs that they're doing the right thing, or they're scum who want an easy lynch thanks to Dev's revelation.

I'm voting for Mastin again because, even with him gone, we should have enough town players left to compete against however many scum are in this game.

Hewitt, you should consider the fact that your aggressiveness might put a bullseye on your back during NP. Sometimes it's best to lay low, especially when you're fighting against all the odds.

I thought you had a suicidal role where, if Mastin is lynched, then you have to die the next day or something. But now I understand why you're so strongly opposed to it... You feel it's a waste of a lynch since he's not mafia.

But let me ask you this: If not during D1, then when IS a good time to lynch Mastin?

[Kise]

Unvote

I'm going back to sleep. Hate me all you want, but we're not getting 14 votes (I doubt even on the Mastin wagon). Somebody let me know when deadline hits.

[Kise]

He tunnels hard, but since he rarely attacks or defends anyone else, I can't speculate whether he is independent or supporting/teaming with anyone. He won't be very helpful to town if he's not willing to listen to what others say and instead retains his vote, rather than trying to put it toward a more beneficial use.

There honestly isn't enough for me to make a sincere vote because so much focus has been on Mastin, and no one else is really sitting in the hot seat. That alone makes it so hard for me to determine if any scum are defending each other (which is usually the best way to weed out a mafia group; finding out who supports who), since most players on the Mastin wagon just snub off every comment thrown their way. They're stubborn, like I said.

This phase is going to be very tedious. I'd be surprised if I end up being the only replacement in this game.

[Kise]

Mod-Edit Votecount 1-34

Mastin - 11

(Caboose, zu_Faul, Empking's Alt, orangepenguin, NanooktheWolf, zoraster, King, Phoebus, AceMarksman, StevieT92, Zer0ph34r)

OrangePenguin - 5

(cateraction, Maturin24, Mastin, Azhrei, Tarhalindur)

Zer0ph34r - 1

(ryan2754)

NanooktheWolf - 1

(Amished)

StevieT92 - 1

(zwetschenwasser)

Phoebus - 1

(RedCoyote)

Caboose - 1

(hewitt)

Not Voting - 6

(alvinz95, White Castle, Dust, killa seven, Devestation, Kise)

With 27 alive, it takes 14 to lynch.

---

Lol. Damn, I wasn't really expecting 3 reasons.

I wouldn't vote for hewitt. Just because you think he's spamming the thread does not mean he's scummy.

[Kise]

Care to give the points you agree on, WC? What is it that stands out about this whole thread that makes you want to vote for Mastin?

(FYI, I only voted for Mastin the 2nd time to toy with hewitt. A joke vote, in essence)

[Kise]

Mod-Edit Votecount 1-35

Mastin - 11

(Caboose, zu_Faul, Empking's Alt, orangepenguin, NanooktheWolf, zoraster, King, Phoebus, AceMarksman, StevieT92, Zer0ph34r)

OrangePenguin - 5

(cateraction, Maturin24, Mastin, Azhrei, Tarhalindur)

Zer0ph34r - 1

(ryan2754)

NanooktheWolf - 1

(Amished)

StevieT92 - 1

(zwetschenwasser)

Phoebus - 1

(RedCoyote)

Caboose - 1

(hewitt)

Not Voting - 6

(alvinz95, White Castle, Dust, killa seven, Devestation, Kise)

With 27 alive, it takes 14 to lynch.

Prods to zoraster, Caboose, zu_Faul, orangepenguin, Acemarksman, Alvinz95, killa seven, and Maturin24.

---

lmao @ 1-man bandwagon.

There are still way too many lurkers to actually pinpoint a scum group. They could be the quiet ones. Too many absenses, and they'll definitely need prodding or replacement.

Although I do like having my name in the topic title. ^_^

[Kise]

Since Caboose can get away with it, here's my activity post that contributes absolutely nothing to the thread.[/sarcasm]

FoS: Caboose

You could have made a bigger contribution than that.

@killa7 - Because you don't post enough in the thread...

I have to ask though, since people think there are 2 mafia families: Do you really think there's even a vig around to NK Mastin? I mean, having 3 parties that can NK seems like overkill, in my opinion. So I'm going to have to shoot down the possibility of 2 mafia families. Maybe 1 large mafia clan, but I don't believe in 2 mafia families, now that I think about it.

[Kise]

I also doubt we'll lose the JOAT tonight. For starters, the JOAT may be able to protect himself (he did out himself on his own in a no-pressure situation)..

I'm not sure if people can use their night actions on themselves, but I honestly think the doc should protect Dev during N1 and let him use another one of his 1-shots for something else.

[Kise]

I would talk to you, but you never asked me anything.

[Kise]

Well, since Maturin is basically a ghost, I'll probably go along with an Ace lynch-mob.

[Kise]

@Ryan - The minimal activity posters are more than likely scum.. In fact, the ones who don't hop on bandwagons on D1 are more than likely scum as well.. I do believe some people on Mastin's wagon are scum, but only a small fraction.

Day 1 is not moving anywhere, so yeah, I'm chilling.. I won't lurk, because if I see something worthy of responding to, then I'll comment on it. Otherwise, why waste my time typing when everyone is content with where they're at?

ryan2754, Amished, zwetschenwasser, RedCoyote, hewitt <--- Those 1-man wagons are nothing more than a ploy for scum to say (on D2), "Hey, let's see who was on the Mastin wagon and heckle them. They're the best choice for lynching scum!" I've seen it too many times before... And if you 5 want to argue with me, then whatever.. I'm just saying it's typical scum-tactic to lay low and not bandwagon.

[Kise]

Not Voting - 6 (alvinz95, White Castle, Dust, killa seven, Devestation, Kise)

I don't find Dev to be scum because I won't shut down the possibility that he is in fact a JOAT. It's a no brainer that I can trust myself. As for everyone else (sans K7), I have read some good points from them. They don't try to set other players up or throw dirt on anybody's name, so they're not looking to start wagons, so I get a good feeling about them. K7 is on-and-off with his behavior, so I'll keep my eyes open for any scumtells from him.

When I spoke to hewitt, I was checking to see how he would respond. I wanted to know from him why he was so firm in a 1-man wagon. WC, think of it as me getting to know hewitt better before making my judgment call when I said the people on 1-man wagons were more than likely waiting to point fingers at everyone on the Mastin wagon as scum. I've seen that tactic used in 2 games, and it worked in mafia's favor for 1 of them.

You have your experiences & beliefs.. I have mine..

Any time I asked someone a question, I was testing them for reaction. Once I see that they react in a potentially-mafiaso way, I address it publicly. It's best to ask without explaining my motive FIRST before I give potential-scum a reason to defend themselves properly from my accusations.

WC, I don't really get your 2nd question in 987... Are you saying there's something wrong with me trying to discover possible connections between equally scummy players? If so... what, exactly is wrong with that?

And just so I'm clear, I was not saying that everyone on the 1-man wagons was scum. Just saying they shouldn't be off the hook when it comes to suspects.

[Kise]

I figured someone would buckle and give in to the Mastin wagon. Deadline is so pressuring..

@Amished - Just because of what I said in Post 972 does not mean you have to panic and abort your 1-man wagon. In fact, it only looks worse when someone aborts their voting-beliefs based on what I said in P-972. On top of that, you reply to me by simply pointing the finger back and saying how I haven't voted yet? Well.. I'm not hasty, but at least I'm not dodgy either once someone suspects me, as you have done.

And then this quasi-ad hom about "You're trying to make yourself useless, aren't you?".... Well, if you look back, someone (zwet?) actually DID say I needed to ignore the Mastin wagon & scumhunt, so that's what I did. And look -- It lit a fire under certain people's asses. But no worries, as there ARE more techniques to use during D2. We'll have to utilize more than one approach as our follow-up strategy in catching the scum....... But still, it really does not look good when someone reads what I said, THEN decides to go against their 1MW.

[Kise]

Yeah, since Zero is inside of the mafia and knows these kinds of things. Right, WC?

Just kidding... although it is possible he's maf'..

I'll have to re-read some of Tar's stuff and see if he buddied up to anyone.

[Kise]

It's a personal vibe I got from the non-voters (sans k7). We all find certain people scummy depending on how we interpret what they say. The way the non-voters spoke makes me believe they have the town's interest in mind.

I mentioned laughing at the 1-man wagons to gauge reactions, plus I found it funny that possible scum would be trying to hide behind unpopular wagons. It happens most of the time on D1.

And yes, I'm looking for a group/team of scum. There's nothing wrong with seeing who's buddying up to each other or somehow working with each other. This way, you can make links, such as right now that we know Tar flipped mafia. When people lurk and make minimal posts, they usually don't say enough of anything for me to connect them with another players. That's why, if you let scum-lurkers get away with it, they will continue to be distanced from each other by continually lurking.

Mastin made quotes. It annoyed people. He got lynched. No thanks.

I'll quote if it's necessary (i.e., if the original questions are on a separate page or really far apart from my reply).

You take a high interest in my strategies, WC. Do you feel my comments are scumtells; nulltells; or anything else?

[Kise]

I'm pretty sure there were a few people who said his posts were a distraction and didn't want him clogging up the thread. If I quoted WC's message, it would have been kinda thick, so, no thanks still.

Anyway, White Castle?

[Kise]

Meh.. I don't care much for that kind of speculation, but no doubt there's either 2 vigs, 1 vig & 1 sk, or perhaps even some 1-shot vigs out there.

Vote: cateraction

There's too much referencing between him & Tar during D1 where I'm almost certain that they can be linked, especially when cat' questioned zwet about voting for Tar.

I'm keeping a close eye on Cateraction, mainly since so much of his second post consisted of agreeing and likes/dislikes, rather than scummy/nonscummy - a form of IIoA (Information Instead of Analysis), albeit a weak one. I want to see more content from him soon.

A way of keeping his feelings about a player/possible-buddy in a neutral viewpoint, as far as everyone else can see(?). I think so. It's not quite distancing, but also not buddying.

This post is pretty insightful. I'm going to automatically give town points to any player who Tar referred to as either scummy or scummy as hell. I should also point out how he wanted to make cases against zu_faul & King, so, to some extent, I don't suspect them as being his scum buds.

Cat' is my best choice at the moment since there's still not a whole lot of commentary made for D2.

[Kise]

The thing is, it's common for a

scum-player

to

try to appear town

by pointing out how happy you are that the mafia goon died. Like I said, [at one point] it was a common thing that scum used to do to put on a facade.

So right now it looks like you're trying to get away with doing the exact same thing.

[Kise]

I'm with Dev on this one.. Zero might be a youngin' that just said the wrong thing at the wrong time.

[Kise]

If you want me to overreact I will, because that's what it seems like some of you want.

You're already overreacting...

@hewitt - Nah, I'd like to know (whether simple or elaborate) reasons behind people's votes. It cuts down and lets me know who's not jump mindlessly hopping on bandwagons, and who actually has valid reasons for wanting to lynch another player.

[Kise]

I sound so illiterate...

@hewitt - It lets me know who's not mindlessly hopping on bandwagons, and cuts down on who actually has valid reasons for wanting to lynch another player.

Fixed.

[Kise]

What the hell happened to the cat' wagon?

[Kise]

Same here.

V/LA for the next 6 days, although I will have access to a computer.

I'll be spending most of my time with family, but I'll comment if something catches my eye. Anywho, carry on with the argument, fellas.

[Kise]

So the Jack is most scummy?

[Kise]

Woops, scratch that. Misread Dust & Dev.

[Kise]

Hope things get better, zero.

[Kise]

I don't quite understand you there, Azh. Could you be more specific? (joking)

[Kise]

Sorry to hear. Hope things go well. See you when you get back.

[Kise]

@hewitt - What the hell happened to the cat' wagon? Did Zero deter it? I think it's quite experimental to lynch King or Caboose, but I find them scummy for unproductive their tunneling.

I may have forgotten.. What are the cases against Red Coyote & Ace? (in a nutshell)

[Kise]

No modkills? Meh..

I still have a D1 suspicion about Amished with the way he suddenly hopped off his 1-man wagon after I called him (and others) on it.

Unvote: cateraction

[Kise]

Does anyone know if Alvinz95 replaced into the game or not? (I'm researching)

[Kise]

No, but I do think Ace is strange in that all throughout the game he has shown selective-favoritism towards a few (namely Tar), and has had both mild & severe instances of hostility towards everyone else.

I've really had some wild suspicions.. I don't feel good about anyone really. No one sticks out as obv-town.

At one time, I was under the impression that RC was the lynchee, and that should have made him out to be obv-town.. but it's interesting how he was not killed during the night. That said, I've got a null-read on him.

Everybody else has appeared fishy to me at some point. Stevie, White Castle & cateraction are the last 3 people I remember suspecting; cat for unproductive commentary, and the other 2 for having trivial arguments with others earlier on.

It's hard to make an assessment in this game since there seems to be a number of people defending each other. It's not that I have a hard time ignoring the opinions of others, just that I'm trying to keep up with possible pairings and.. failing at it.

[Kise]

Then replace out. That would be better. At least then we may get a more productive player.

[Kise]

Lol, then again... Jebus has a hard enough time finding other replacements.

Give us an updated scum list. Have you found anyone scummy, or just the 7 people on your wagon?

[Kise]

can i join this game?

Lmfao...

Was Tar the original person who suggested that RC was the lynchee?

[Kise]

Vote: Zer0ph34r

He needs to die. Read --->

Is everyone voting Mastin because his posts are too long? Even I find that to be a lame reason to vote him. I mean, the posts don't have any relevant info in them, but still.

Caboose, no. I will not vote for someone unless I think they are scum. Which I don't think Mastin is.

Amished, I've only made it passed day one once. (Playing as scum, mind you.) And that time, I just played under the radar, pretty much agreeing with what everyone said. What I normally do during day one is determining who's smart, who's foolish, and who's scum. Want to know who I think is scum? No one really. I have reasons to dislike people, but if I had to pick someone, I guess I would pick Mastin,

since his posts are long and full of crap

, it seems like a way to make it seem like he's contributing. So you know what?

Unvote

VOTE: MASTIN

[Kise]

ryan2754 - 1 down, 8 to go.
8 others, join the

club

.

Lol.. Might not mean anything, but it gave me a giggle.

[Kise]

6 more votes to go.

[Kise]

Why aren't you two voting Zer0? Let's get the ball rolling.

[Kise]

KMD, Zer0 is currently living scum. There you go. Now vote for him.

Ace might be another scumbag, who knows.

[Kise]

Day 1, he asks why everyone is voting Mastin (it was a huge ass wagon, let me tell ya). He asks if the only reason is because Mastin makes huge posts, and then he says that's a lame reason to vote for someone. Zer0 would again mention how it is a lame reason, then tells Caboose that he doesn't think Mastin is scum. Later in D1, Mastin is closer to being lynched. Zer0 sees this and has a change of heart all of a sudden. His reason for voting Mastin? Because of the huge posts... so...

It's also worth mentioning that a connection could be formed between Stevie, Zer0 & Phoebus. Zer0 followed them with whoever they voted for during D1 & D2, and Stevie & Phoebus had a few instances of co-signing each other. I wish I went ahead and pieced everything together when I was reading in iso (earlier).. A bit too tired now to do it.

[Kise]

^^That's for you, Kevin...... Can I call you Kevin?

[Kise]

To my recollection, he's only voted for zwet during RVS, then there was the Mastin vote. On D2, he made a vote against Red Coyote (also note that Phoebus voted for RC 1st), who he is also currently voting for once again.

Zer0 made no case against RC during D2. It was total-OMGUSyness... or he could have been following Phoebus' lead.

[Kise]

Kevin is your real name, hai?

[Kise]

FYI, Stevie (the person that Zer0 has been following) flipped scum after being NK'd. Stevie was a member of the Hate Club [mafia?]. If Zer0 flips Hate Club, it's likely that Phoebus is also with them. It's difficult to gauge anything out of Phoebus (and Caboose for that matter) since he's not very active, so linking is our best bet.

[Kise]

OOH, yeah I forgot about the Mason claim. Alrighty then.. guess Azh & Phoebus are clear.

How did they survive the night?

[Kise]

@Amished - I'll save you the trouble. I didn't hop on Zer0's wagon during day 2 because the "case" was that Zer0 was using the "Aw man, power roles died, but at least we a goon did too" scumtell. I didn't buy it, so I didn't bandwagon him. Today, however, I did some digging and found a much better validation for lynching Zer0.

I think I started reading Stevie in iso first, then somehow read Zer0.

[Kise]

ryan2754 - 1 down, 8 to go.

Were you hinting to there being 9 other anti-town in this game, Zer0?

I did read up on an old game (FF7 mafia) and there were 4 scum on a faction, and 5 scum in the other. 27 player game, at that. So we could be looking at 7 remaining anti-town, at the likely-highest value. Obviously the numbers could be different in this game, but I'm just informing.

I would have voted Ace if I was on before deadline. Him & Zer0 are still good lynch options at this point.

[Kise]

So Zer0 is a good lynch but I'm scummy for voting for him?

There's 2 scum factions, after all.

Just saying.

[Kise]

Now that I think about it, I could still go for a cat' lynch, as OP mentioned.

After we hear from Phoebus (and I suppose Ace as well), we should do as the good man says in my siggy.

[Kise]

Backup Mod Edit Votecount 3-3

Zer0ph34r (5) - orangepenguin, Kise, White Castle, cateraction, King
cateraction (2) - Amished, hewitt
Amished (1) - kmd4390
RedCoyore (1) - Zer0ph34r

Not Voting (9) - Azerhi, jeromus, Caboose, NanookTheWolf, zoraster, ryan2754, RedCoyote, AceMarksman, Phoebus

@Amished - Stevie could have bussed Zer0 knowing that there were still other members of his faction. It's weird that Stevie would change his vote to hewitt (2 posts later) after an argument with him. He more than likely saw a door open up where he could get off of Zer0's wagon (assuming they're partners). I also don't think Zer0 should be cleared to any degree once cat' flips. Bottom line is that Zer0 went against his own morale, so to speak, when he voted for Mastin.

And no, I do not think Zer0 is sheeplike. He hasn't made 3 votes in this game (the 1st being an RVS vote), and his vote for RC certainly did not seem as sheepy as it did OMGUS.

@RC - I had a vote parked on cat' for the longest. It didn't go anywhere by the time deadline was nearing. By the time Ace's wagon struck up at lightning speed, deadline was very close, and I didn't log on that day. Ace was the only other person I was comfortable with lynching D2, but I was really hoping Zer0's "this sucks" scumtell wouldn't serve as a big enough distraction to deter from cat' being lynched.

[Kise]

He has

n't

made 3 votes in this game

Fixed.

[Kise]

FFS...

He has

n't

made 3 votes in this game

[Kise]

I'm going out of town tomorrow, up until sometime Monday.

Ace, Zer0, or cat? Which are we doing?

[Kise]

Thing is, Zer0 was logged on that day, wasn't he?

[Kise]

I know you're just speaking hypothetical and all, but, again, I wasn't logged on. Zer0 was here, and he even commented before deadline.

I'm actually leaving tonight due to a change of plans, so where should my vote go?

[Kise]

I'd still say that a mafia group is more concerned about self-preservation. At that point, they'd know that there's a 2nd group (Tar died revealing mafia) so assuming equal numbers for each group they'd want to keep a leg up on their competition by trying to hold more power over the mafia in the end game.

I still stand by my position that the (alleged) bussing was too early and too obvious to have them be going against their own player (and two days in a row for Cat). However, Cat's immediate following of Stevie and still poor reasoning for voting increases my thoughts that I have scum in my vote.

What if he knew the wagon was not going to lead to a lynch (as it didn't)? There's no telling if he would have jumped off once the wagon built.

[Kise]

i will be voting azhrei tomorrow.

What a pal.

I have to ask for those who voted Zer0 during the previous day phase: Why was his use of the "this sucks" scumtell that much stronger to warrant a vote than his D1-Mastin contradiction?

[Kise]

Backup Mod Edit Votecount 3-4

Zer0ph34r (4) - orangepenguin, White Castle, cateraction, King
cateraction (3) - Amished, hewitt, Kise
Amished (1) - kmd4390
RedCoyore (1) - Zer0ph34r

Not Voting (9) - Azerhi, jeromus, Caboose, NanookTheWolf, zoraster, ryan2754, RedCoyote, AceMarksman, Phoebus

Hey there, Zazie.

Unvote; Vote: cateration

V/LA starting NOW up until sometime Monday.

Hopefully cat is the one.

[Kise]

Jesus fuggin' Kise... still Day 3.

I'll catch up tomorrow.

[Kise]

Motherfucker I was V/LA.

[Kise]

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 76#1766776

[Kise]

Come on, hew'. Keep up with ya boy.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 73#1717073

I've already stated my position on lynching cat.

[Kise]

Must you always try to get under people's skin with everything you say?

I wonder if Hate Club members have a post restriction...

[Kise]

Unvote
Vote: WhiteCastle

tl;dr version: He's saying out a PR right now (assuming so that he can kill them) and therefore to keep the rest of his scumgroup free from investigations.

I didn't read that from WC. He said that if the cop has 2 confirmed scum, then out themselves now. That is much different than outing merely themselves now, irregardless of whether they got guilty reads or not.

[Kise]

Backmod Edit Votecount 3-7

Zer0ph34r (4) - orangepenguin, cateraction, King, ryan2754
Amished (2) - kmd4390, White Castle
cateraction (1) - Kise
White Castle (1) - Amished
RedCoyote (1) - Zer0ph34r

Not Voting (9) - ZazieR, jeromus, Caboose, NanookTheWolf, zoraster, RedCoyote, AceMarksman, Phoebus, hewitt

KMD, did you ever say why you voted for Amished when you entered the game? And if so, do you mind stating once more what that reason is?

[Kise]

I hope you can handle that. Keep in mind that Tar' is Mafia-! & Stevie is Mafia-B.

[Kise]

{

Off-Topic

@ Zazie}
Holy shit! How'd you know I said that about us???

[Kise]

{Placehold}
Page 63+

[Kise]

Check my sig. 2.5 days shouldn't be too long

[Kise]

{Anti-Prod Post}

I'm back... well, BBS.

[Kise]

Lying about role-flavor? GTFOH.

Vote: Shrinehme

[Kise]

L-1, BTW.

[Kise]

...

Unvote; Vote: Shrinehme

[Kise]

I'm still not caught up since I've come back, but yeah, I've always been down for a Zer0 lynch. But I'm pretty sure everyone doesn't want to quicklynch, so... bbl.

[Kise]

Cateraction turning up vanilla townie did surprise me, it also kind of surprised me that he was nightkilled. I did not think he seemed like a pro-town player at all. I think it’s imperative to point out that weaker players like cateraction don’t necessarily mean scum. I think it’s safe to say that some of the more aggressive, vocal, pro-town seeming players are scum. I know that should be obvious but I think that’s something to dwell on before going oh well let’s go after ZeroPhear.

Would I be correct to assume that you believe a pro-town player is responsible for cat's death?

[Kise]

@RC - I'm doing my best. I read at a speed of 2 pages per hour, so I'm thinking tomorrow or the day after is when I'll be caught up.

@hewitt - I asked you that because of how it seems like you're explaining to a pro-town killer why cateraction was not the best NK choice.

Cateraction turning up vanilla townie did surprise me, it also kind of

surprised me that he was nightkilled

. I did not think he seemed like a pro-town player at all. I think it’s imperative to point out that

weaker players like cateraction don’t necessarily mean scum

. I think it’s safe to say that some of the more aggressive, vocal, pro-town seeming players are scum. I know that should be obvious but I think that’s something to dwell on before going oh well let’s go after ZeroPhear.

I won't say much more on this, but this seems like an explanation. What are your reasons for going after Zer0? Although I'm not caught up, last I checked, you never voted him nor had a big problem with him. Why is he an ideal lynch today?

[Kise]

oh well let’s go after ZeroPhear.

[Kise]

Re-read 4 times... NOW I get it . Still, unlike you, I do think Zer0 is scum. And as I noted a few posts ago, you haven't paid him much attention ITT. One good thing for Zer0 is that with Shrine/Ace flipping an independent role, that link between them is gone.

[Kise]

I linked Zer0 & Stevie based on following of opinion and vote-pattern. Other people linked Zer0 (and a few others) to Shrine because he didn't hammer Ace at the end of D2 before deadline. For more on the Stevie/Zer0 thing, iso read me right around where I voted Zer0 yesterday. I don't have many new posts so it shouldn't be hard to find.

[Kise]

My problem with your post 1933, and maybe I'm just reading too much into it, is that it's like you're bringing the idea up half-heartedly. It's like you are testing the waters.

"I'm sure no one wants to lynch Zer0 ... right??"

I've always been a proponent of that, you know ryan has been pretty strong on that wagon as well. I know King and OP were voting Zer0 with the intent to lynch once or twice this game. Why you feel the need to conceal your interest in getting a Zer0 wagon going is beyond me.

Well let's see... D3 all I've been saying is how I'm comfortable with a cat', Ace/Shrine or Zer0 lynch. 2 down, 1 left on my list. Capish?

I'm still completely stumped on the "Beaten to Death" kill. Is there another SK? We know this can't be the Hate-Club because Stevie died by this, and, given how the "Shot" kill has been in every night, I'm pretty sure this belongs to a/the mafia group. I would like everyone to give their thoughts about that if nothing else.

Sounds like fishing, and I don't want to put my reel in this pond.

Right now I think we have one mafia group, another SK, and a Hate-Club Cult. We've batted around the idea of a cult before, but I think this fits.

Can anyone remember who it was on D1 that was talking about Mastin being recruited?

The "Beaten to Death" killer killed Kmd, Stevie, and K7. His killing of K7 is null imo, but his killing of Stevie suggests he isn't a Hate-Club, and his killing of Kmd suggests that he may be looking to kill power roles. I might be thinking too far ahead here, but I had the impression that Kmd was a power role based on his stubbornness yesterday.

So apparently the killer was looking for power roles, and you also had the impression KMD was a power role?

FoS

for that.. sounds like a slip.

I think lynching one of the Masons should be a route to consider. Any thoughts on these things?

I'm not going to beckon them out, but shouldn't we have a cop? I'm going to go ahead and direct the cop into investigating Empking. Not Azrei, because Emp said something about lynching Azrei on D1, so I'm thinking Emp could be a 0.5 Mason (this role exists... and I will never trust Sotty again because of this).

[Kise]

If hewitt is scum, Zero is his buddy.

I can see why you'd say that but I have no link to ZeroPhear that I'm aware of.

It's called distancing. I don't recall a moment where you've really bothered with Zer0, except to explain why you think he shouldn't be lynched. ((Further reading, I see OP has pointed this out))

And, upon further reading... My tip about Emp/Battle Mage may be true since he states something about Zazie not being treacherous according to his role PM. The thing that happened to me with Sotty is that she was in the mafia, but she had my trust up until her rival scum faction NK'd me. So, based on my experience with 0.5 Masons, the case

could

(not definitely) be that Emp/BM introduced the idea to lynch Az/Zazie so that a Mason flip would clear him. Although I have to reread exactly what prompted Az to make the Mason claim in the 1st place.. I'll let it at that for now, but as RC said, I am untrusting of at least 1 Mason, though I do believe they both got the Mason role PM.

[Kise]

Hmm... well, considering that there were only 2 NKs, the idea of Hate Club being a non-killing cult is plausible, considering that Ace/Shrine was the one who slashed alvin. I see no other recurring kill methods except shot (mafia) & beatdown (unknown). But it's odd that Zazie pointed this out

before

we got to see only the 2 NKs.

Am I the only one that notices RC is trying to rolefish on the sly? Every time a new day begins, you want to speculate on how the night kills look and keep questioning people who we think did this and that.. Let's get back to scumhunting the good old fashion way.

@OP - If Hate Club is non-killing, then shouldn't the focus be on eliminating the mafia?

[Kise]

I meant to say Phoebus. I don't know why I thought Empking & Az' were the masons. And 2 out of 3 is still pretty good odds .

[Kise]

Sounds like fishing, and I don't want to put my reel in this pond.

[...]

I'm not going to beckon them out, but shouldn't we have a cop?

Hold on a second. Can you really say both of these things with a straight face?

Yes I can, because I'm not fishing for a cop to come forward. I said beforehand that I am not beckoning them to claim. I am directing their investigation on the mason pair. If the cop doesn't claim, or if they're killed, then at least we can check their pattern of suspicion/tunnelling to make a guesstimate of who they got a guilty result on.

Moreover, do you think it's unproductive for everyone to give their opinion on the night kills? Why or why not?

Productive for mafia, yeah.

Can anyone remember who it was on D1 that was talking about Mastin being recruited?

Is this a rhetorical question or are you honestly asking?

Serious. As we can see, Phoebus, one of the mason pair, was at the root of cult speculation.

My scumhunting takes into account how town and scum players react to the night kills. Do you think this is valid?

I suppose so.. we're gonna need to get a Mafia flip soon though if HC don't kill.

[Kise]

I'm still not caught up since I've come back, but yeah, I've always been down for a Zer0 lynch. But I'm pretty sure everyone doesn't want to quicklynch, so... bbl.

Supports the lynch, but doesn't vote. The quicklynch argument isn't valid as Kise's vote would have been the first. So I'm interested in hearing an explanation why you didn't vote, Kise.
P.S. What does bbl mean

BBL = Be back later. I'm familiar with the original group of players ITT and I know them well enough to know that the day phases are dragged out often at unholy amounts of time. I said I'll bbl with the vote whenever discussion is finished, and deadline is nearing, and then that's when everyone suddenly gets in the lynching mood. That's just the law of nature in mafia 92.

My role pm had no mention of any alignment doubts of my mason partner, and when i asked the Mod, he implied (albeit in a wary kinda way) i had no reason to think he was scum. So, for now at least, i'm considering Zazie confirmed-town.

what question did you ask the mod? Because when I asked if you are confirmed, the back-up mod told me I'm not guaranteed of your or the other mason allignments.

Yeah.. now that you mention 3 Masons total, I could definitely see 1 of your partners being a traitor. Not you though, because Az' was fairly "kind" compared to Phoebus. You might want to do some internal research and check your QT thread. Find out if one of your partners are trying to sway from lynching "certain" players, if you catch my drift.

Sounds like fishing, and I don't want to put my reel in this pond.

I'm not going to beckon them out, but shouldn't we have a cop? I'm going to go ahead and direct the cop into investigating BM.

Fishing yourself in a different pond is ok because?

See my post directed at RC. It's not fishing when I don't require the cop to respond immediately. At least I don't expect a response during this phase.

Not Azrei, because Phoebus said something about lynching Azrei on D1, so I'm thinking BM could be a 0.5 Mason (this role exists... and I will never trust Sotty again because of this).

Why didn't you ask if we are confirmed after the claim?

Because I didn't get betrayed by Sotty until after Az's claim. So, the thought never crossed my mind that there existed a mafia mason role.

[Kise]

@Post 1986 - Pardon me for asking... In a sentence or 2, can you re-explain how the cult isn't possible?

@OP - If Hate Club is non-killing, then shouldn't the focus be on eliminating the mafia?

This is what we call 'selective scumhunting'.

FoS Kise

You don't get it. Mafia are the ones who can cut down both HC & the town with their NKs. It's wiser to try and eliminate those who can kill, free of worry that a doc would block the kill... Odd, Zazie, because I'm somewhat taking the heat of this cult suspicion off you (and BM & zora) but it goes unappreciated, I'd say.

1. This is a normal game. Games with cults would never be passed as normal.

ORLY?
More interesting is the player list as your name is in it.

Well lookie here.

HoS: Fonz

for that one. I would have thought of him/Nanook as more connected to Tar {mafia}, but this feigned ignorance of his is scummy, in a cultish way.

[Kise]

@hewitt - How long have you thought of cateraction as pro-town?

[Kise]

Mod Edit Votecount 4-3

Redcoyote - 2

(Battle Mage, Zer0ph34r)

Zer0ph34r - 1

(Zazier)

zoraster - 1

(RedCoyote)

Not Voting - 10

(orangepenguin, ryan2754, hewitt, Kise, Amished, Lowell,

zoraster

, King, Person A, Javert, The Fonz)

With 14 'alive', it takes 8 to lynch.

---

Bah! I meant to ask how long have you thought of Zer0 as town**

[Kise]

Allow me to give you a hand with that.

Vote: Zer0

[Kise]

Yeah, give hewitt a better partner to work with.

((I kid, I kid... possibly))

[Kise]

Zazie --> http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 94#1791994

I was Roddy Piper, Sotty was Earthquake. Check out the QT for the 0.5 Masons. I got duped...

You find anything incriminating by one of your partners in the QT? Did they try to influence mislynches or defend anyone? (Same question goes to BM)

[Kise]

Unvote

Possibilities.

[Kise]

We don't even know how many times a possible-cult could recruit, let alone if it exists.

Anyone with experience dealing with cult-leaders, what would happen if they target mafia?

The hate club were tagged in red, traditional mafia group colour, rather than an alternative like purple which is usually used for cults (in theme games).

Very good point here.

Pending-Vote on King

The lur

king

is denying me from getting a read on him. I think we still have enough phases ahead of us to experiment and either push for a claim to prove he's useful to us, or take our chances with his lynch.

@King - Can you list as many reasons as possible why Zer0 is your ideal lynch choice?

[Kise]

Also, to add to my stance on RC, I think the fishing has gone on long enough. Can you explain the neccessity of you knowing whether the rest of us think Beaten To Death is town or not? Are you trying to see if any of us know an intimate detail?

[Kise]

i will be voting azhrei tomorrow.

As far as my "lining up" Azhrei goes:

Mastin is an almost confirmed lyncher, Caboose. (I only have the almost in there due to the possibility of a scum gambit the size of a giant)

@Whoever asked me why I wanted Mastin alive:

1. I think he's being honest.

2. We will have a nice little test of the setup, and the night actions will hopefully be somewhat revealing.

3.

There is a chance he'll get recruited (Kise-Edit: Just want to point out how Azhrei is talking about recruitment)

, and if this happens, I think we'll have a very useful pro-town player (in both role and name) helping us. Even if his posting habits hurt my eyes.

Points 2 and 3 make me extremely uncomfortable.

"Hopefully somewhat revealing"??
They will definitely reveal something. It is then that we should be speculating on stuff. Right now, it's just text walls that are annoying.

"Chance he'll get recruited"?? By whom? For what?
Why are people treating recruiting masons as gospel??
Is there something you know that I don't???

I gotta head out, but read Phoebus in iso beginning at Post 8. Zazie, explain since BM is awol.

[Kise]

[k7]

ran towards the police station

Might just be pure flavor, but it might imply that there is at least one Cop around town?

Red has been fishing forever...

Vote: RedCoyote

If he flips scum, ryan is his partner. An iso scan on the both of you further suggests that to be true.

[Kise]

I got a feeling that you already explained your change of heart w/ cateraction before he was NK'd, but, I'm bored.. looking into more stuff.

cateraction that's not good enough. That's a pretty shitty case if that's all you got to say.

Vote: cateraction

for being 100% completely opportunistic scum right here. Pretty ridiculous.

I would advise a wagon on AceMarksmen before a wagon on ZeroPhear. Let's think about the Mastin lynch for a second...really nothing came out of it that was all that good. We were left with a D2 that started horribly with barely half the players actively participating and ended with a no lynch on a really good suspect. ZeroPhear is a good lynch don't get me wrong. I just think that we need to start focusing on lynching the ones who are the BEST lynch possible, not the most opportunistic and easiest.

So Zer0 is a good lynch but I'm scummy for voting for him?

No, you're scummy for voting without giving a good reason and being opportunistic throughout this entire game.

The 2nd paragraph of your post at the start of D4 doesn't match up with the quotes above. I need to ask why you felt the need to mention weak players not really being scum and that vocal players are more likely scum[?]; who were you trying to talk to in general?

[Kise]

Gotcha. I feel good now about hewitt, Zer0 & Zazie. Since damn near everyone is suspecting them, they can't be buddies with anyone. 'Cept Zazie of course.

[Kise]

Allow me to return to this in a second.

It's been half an hour..

[Kise]

And i returned to it later in the post.

I don't think so.. Zazie is basically saying that you were apart of Mafia 86, a New York/normal game where there was in fact a cult leader. Yet you don't neglect the thought that a cult leader is in this game because it's supposedly not a normal role.

[Kise]

Fonz, Zazie & OP are referring to 2 different games. Sure, Open 81 is a new york game, but there were no cultist there.

By the same token, Kise accused me of deliberately feigning ignorance about the presence of a cult in that game, when

the cult leader died n0

and had no impact on the game, and I came in on day five as a replacement. And the game was six months ago.

That's not the point. And the cult leader didn't die in Open 81 since there was none.

1. This is a normal game.

Games with cults would never be passed as normal

.

Here, you're denying that cults exists in New York games, but Zazie brought to your attention that you know better because you've played in a game with a cult before (Mafia 86, NOT Open 81).

[Kise]

Also Fonz, I'm pretty sure that the term Normal refers to games that aren't funky; i.e. no werewolves, no scientists, or any other unique/innovative role.

Just for clarification, I do understand hewitt's change in stance regarding cateraction since most weaker players have currently flipped town. I thought he was breadcrumbing at the start of the day, but reviewing makes me understand it a bit more. But even before cat' flipped, there was a lot of defense of Zer0 on your part, hewitt. But have you checked out Steviw/Zer0's interactions (iso)?

If he flips scum, ryan is his partner. An iso scan on the both of you further suggests that to be true.

Can you elaborate?

Distancing heavily on both of their parts, but one thing they are good at is conversing, as if they trust each other, and co-signing the other. Ryan has been throwing dirt on all but a handful of players, and sometimes not even mentioning people's names. But ryan & Red have the more public relationship due to ryan playing sidekick at times.

Also, I like your new avatar ^.^

Yeah.... I just couldn't outdo zwet this month.

Can you explain the neccessity of you knowing whether the rest of us think Beaten To Death is town or not? Are you trying to see if any of us know an intimate detail?

This is the same argument I had with zu. When everyone discusses the night kills, infomation is gained later in the game. Like, I need to read Stevie some more, but don't you think it would be good to know what his opinion was on who was shot/Beaten to Death and why?

Mmm.. no, I don't care about Stevie's opinion. He's scum. He'll lie to cover his tracks. Better yet, his faction can't make NK's if I the general concensus is right about HC.

If [RC] flips scum, ryan is his partner. An iso scan on the both of you further suggests that to be true.

I called out Phoebus and Caboose for lining up lynches, I have no problems calling you out for the same.

If you flip town, then ryan can rest easy (at least easier). But, I can see you're getting tempermental, so that must mean I'm right about the two of you.. eh? A better way to counter me would have been to say, "I don't know what ryan is and when I flip town, that shouldn't alter the opinions of what ryan's alignment is." But noooo, RC has to counter by saying I'm lining up lynches... Of course I am. If you flip scum, ryan is scum too.

[Kise]

Quick question: Does anyone know if Shrine accounted for Emp's killing? I noticed it was different than alvin being slashed.

[Kise]

OK, Red... what information have you gained from dead players (specifically Stevie) regarding the night kills? Any at the moment?

[Kise]

[k7]

ran towards the police station

Might just be pure flavor, but it might imply that there is at least one Cop around town?

Flavour is meant to be flavour - I did not intentionally hint at anything.

Ignore the fact that the mod intervened; what did you expect to hear from the rest of us?

7. alvinz95, a Doctor, Slashed Night 1.

16. zwetchenwasser, a Watcher, Shot Night 1.

23. Tarhalindur, a Mafia Goon, Ambushed Night 1.

14. killa seven, a Tracker, Beaten to Death Night 1.

It looks like we've got someone wielding a knife on alvinz, which implies that the town may have a Gunsmith role? Possibly a Hunter-type role? K7 was beaten to death, and Tar was ambushed? Anyone have any idea what these roles could be?

Ahem --->

Flavour is meant to be flavour - I did not intentionally hint at anything.

Initial knee-jerk reaction post to nightkills:

∙A person was

shot

and

beaten

both nights, indicating to me that these are probably recurring night actions of a scum group.
∙Hate-Club indicates there is another scum faction, but they are

not

responsible for the deaths caused by beatings, which leads me to believe they are the ones shooting.
∙I'm surprised with Empking as a scum kill, and am leaning toward a town-sided role shot him.

You seriously (would have) expected Stevie or Tar to come out and say, "Oh yeah, I sho'ly doos believe my mafia is a shooting peobles???"

As far as my reaction to the cater/Kmd deaths goes, like hewitt said, I didn't expect cater to bite the bullet. I didn't necessarily think he was scum, but I certainly didn't think he would be shot by scum.

I'm still completely stumped on the "Beaten to Death" kill. Is there another SK?

Who knows, really? And who do you expect to be dumb enough and step forward, saying, "I think there's another SK. Me.?" (not a rhetorical question; please answer)

We know this can't be the Hate-Club because Stevie died by this, and, given how the "Shot" kill has been in every night, I'm pretty sure this belongs to a/the mafia group. I would like everyone to give their thoughts about that if nothing else.

Gets us nowhere. We know nothing about people's alignments (not even the damn masons can confirm each other). So no one's word can be trusted. The only thing that's certain is that you've fished for the cop role and the other killing role.

The "Beaten to Death" killer killed Kmd, Stevie, and K7. His killing of K7 is null imo, but his killing of Stevie suggests he isn't a Hate-Club, and his killing of Kmd suggests that he may be looking to kill power roles. I might be thinking too far ahead here, but I had the impression that Kmd was a power role based on his stubbornness yesterday. The point I'm getting at is, I think "Beaten to Death" is looking to kill other killing roles... which makes me think he's another third party.

Just noticed that the "BTD" killer didn't target KMD; they got cateraction. The mafia/shooters got to KMD, so they must've thought he was a power role. Makes sense for them to do that.

[Kise]

@Fonz - How was I to know you had no recollection of Mafia 86? Zazie's little find came off as though she caught you lying. As far as I'm concerned, there's no telling, but your explanation is considered. Chill much?

There is no value in analyzing his opinion?

No. Doesn't get us anywhere.

We have a lot of deaths, however, so I'm not really sure whether we have 2 mafias or 1. We definitely have an SK.

This leads me to believe the Hate-Club is another mafia faction. He kind of brings it up uncertainly, almost as though he wants to look prophetic. In retrospect, it's reads like he's fully aware that the Hate-Club killed someone.

Okie dokie.....?

It would necessarily lend creditability to a Cop claim in the future.

Or better yet, give the scum a hint as to who could be the cop early on based on their explanation of the night write-ups. So basically, you're trying to draw the cop out to suggest whether "k7 running to the police station" means anything, so that you

personally

know who is more likely to be the cop.(?)

Who knows, really? And who do you expect to be dumb enough and step forward, saying, "I think there's another SK. Me.?" (not a rhetorical question; please answer)

I think we're far enough along in the game to talk about connections between players, dead and living. I think the town should share information/opinions about who is who.

So you want everyone to speculate on who they think is cop, vig, and SK?

[Kise]

Mod Edit Votecount 4-7

Redcoyote - 4

(Battle Mage, Zer0ph34r, Kise, Javert)

hewitt - 2

(Amished, RedCoyote)

Zer0ph34r - 1

(Zazier)

King -1

(The Fonz)

Not Voting - 6

(orangepenguin, ryan2754, hewitt, Lowell,

zoraster

, King, Person A)

With 14 'alive', it takes 8 to lynch.

Mass-Prod sent out.

---

BBS - Sunday or Monday.

[Kise]

@ryan - What is most scummy about those not voting D2?

[Kise]

So not lynching an unaffiliated [SK] player makes others scummy?

[Kise]

Mod Edit Votecount 4-9

Redcoyote - 5

(Battle Mage, joe478, Kise, Javert, The Fonz)

hewitt - 4

(Amished, RedCoyote, King, Lowell)

Zer0ph34r - 1

(Zazier)

Person A - 1

(ryan2754)

Not Voting - 4

(orangepenguin, hewitt, qwints, stark)

With 15 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.

---

@ryan - You used a different quote... Please refer to 2130

Zazie - Why did you answer a question directed at ryan, before ryan? Also, 2107 belongs to hewitt.

[Kise]

Welcome. Keep your vote where it's at, por favor.

[Kise]

Because Ace/Shrine was not affiliated with anyone, so anyone who didn't vote was not trying to save his skin, if that's what you were getting at.

[Kise]

Zazie - Why did you answer a question directed at ryan, before ryan? Also, 2107 belongs to hewitt.

Ryan answered your question in Post 2135. If you aren''t talking about your question in Post 2130, which one do you mean?
And the part about Post 2107 is aimed at Hewitt. That whole post in which I mention it is aimed at Hewitt.

Nah, I additionally asked what was scummy about people not hammering a 3rd-party player (if that's what he saw as scummy).

@ryan - Would you be willing to

bus

deadline-vote RC if he was the highest wagon?

[Kise]

Joe is town, BTW. Anyone disagree?

[Kise]

Awesome.

Joe is town, though.

[Kise]

im leaning more towards a Hewitt vote now.

[Kise]

I've been cop, gotten an innocent on somebody and defended them (not on site). That's *still* not the same situation as I *know* their alignment while expecting to be questioned. The extent of Hewitt's defense of Zero isn't the same, and doubtful that he's the cop, nor would need to defend somebody that vigorously as there have been several people that were unwilling to lynch Zero (me included) and therefore wouldn't need to really have a defense of somebody unlikely to get lynched.

What prompted this role speculation?

[Kise]

Mod: Was the deadline this past Wednesday, or next Wednesday?

This upcoming wednesday - extension may or may not be granted.

[Kise]

Vote : Zer0ph34r

I also don't trust cateraction or zu_faul, but those are just based and the feeling I get from them. No other thoughts at the moment.

Therefore, I will not be following the vote for hewitt.

[Kise]

It was my nice way of saying that, largely (bot not entirely) thanks to King voting for hewitt, hewitt is not a good lynch. King's scumdar has been off, or something.

[Kise]

Mod Edit Votecount 4-15

Redcoyote - 5

(Battle Mage, Kise, Javert, The Fonz, joe478)

hewitt - 4

(Amished, RedCoyote, King, Lowell)

Javert - 2

(stark, Zazier)

stark - 1

(ryan2754)

The Fonz - 1

(qwints)

Not Voting - 2

(orangepenguin, hewitt)

With 15 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.

---

Cat + zu_faul flipping town = King doesn't have the best scumdar.

Read me in iso. From Post 102 onward is great enough to explain why RC is today's best lynching.

In one word: Fishing

[Kise]

Also, with RC being on hewitt's wagon, I'm not joining it.

[Kise]

For some reason, this reads like a 1st-person perspective from one of the killing-factions:

Also, the Mafia/HC has more information to begin with as they know their own motivations for killing people and only have to figure out the other recurring kill, especially as the SK outed themselves and told us all who his kill was N1 (reducing the amount of kills they have to speculate on even further).

Right.. so RC is helping the mafia & HC find out information about the other killing roles? Well, hey, anyone who helps anti-town is not a friend of mine. Vote stays.

[Kise]

That's not what RC is doing. He's fishing. He's asking questions and expects [scum] players to tell the truth so that when they flip, we can go back and read their thoughts on the night results to assess a motive. From what I've seen, no one is really making convo with him in regards to the night results, so, yeah, everyone else pretty much recognizes that he's fishing and not satisfying him with that.

Additionally, the killers work in groups, so it takes more than 1 mind to make the decision on who to kill and what reasons. For instance, just because Scumbag A thinks this player should die does not mean Scumbag B was threatened by that townie. If Scumbag B flips, there's no telling whether it was his decision to NK certain players or whether those certain players caused a problem for Scumbag A.

Anyway, your deflection is noted.

[Kise]

WTF, ryan? I thought your policy was lynching > no lynching(?)

Today is deadline [unless extension is made for some reason] and you'd rather go for L-4 than L-3? You were the one who said people were scummy for not helping to prevent no lynch on D2. hewitt is 1 vote further from a lynch and MILES further from being scummy like RC.

Your attempt to save RC from the lynch has not gone unseen.

@Amished - Do you think the masons can recruit?

[Kise]

Just vote for him now. Someone else can hammer.

[Kise]

Ninja'd.

Hey, OP, RC has/had more votes on him. Why L-3 > L-2?

[Kise]

Mod Edit Votecount 4-15

Redcoyote - 5

(Battle Mage, Kise, Javert, The Fonz, joe478)

+ hewitt, ryan & Zazie = a lynch

[Kise]

@Amished - Interesting. I was thinking they could be pro-town because of an off-site game I had where the Mason Recruiter was town. The recruiter actually died by targeting mafia..

The conflict in this game is that Phoebus/BM was so intent on lynching Azhrei, but when the next day rolls around, he not only forgets all about his case, but Azhrei also makes the mason claim.

[Kise]

It was actually a post by Phoebus were he went into pretty extensive detail why he felt Azhrei was being scummy. I mean.. why would he bother to make his partner look bad if they were masons/partners D1?

[Kise]

With Phoebus gone, there's no way of telling his reasons for that case against Az' on D1. Ah well. However, if the masons do die upon recruiting mafia, then they should obviously tell each other who is being targeted in their QT.

[Kise]

I think it's a bit bastardy for the roleblocker to be town. If the remaining mafia & HC are anything like Tar & Stevie, then the roleblocker is basically shooting in the dark by trying to guess which one is submitting the kill. Otherwise, there's a greater chance he's roleblocking the town roles from doing their job. If RC is a townie roleblocker (I'm always 50/50 on RB claims), then the mafia & HC

should

have abilities other than NKs that are worth being blocked.

[Kise]

If he was a mafia roleblocker, do you think he was telling the truth about his roleblocks?

I'm curious about why he chose alvinz to block. The guy had 2 post total in the thread.

If RC is a mafia RB, then it'd be more sensible to lie about who he targeted. For instance, if he targeted anyone outside of his list who was a generally pro-townish player and they happened to have a power role (ie a cop), they'd probably know he was after the most townish players, so they wouldn't believe him to be mafia aligned.

[Kise]

I'M BATMAAAAAAAN

[Kise]

for the kill limit, there was none - the point was to make the vigilante be a little more cautious about how s/he was going to use his/her ability.

Yeah, as Amished said, I targeted him the same night mafia busted a cap in me. I wish I survived another day because I realized a possible slip when RedCoyote was fakeclaiming his roleblock targets. After flipping hate club, I realized he mentioned targeting joe & stark, which would mean either he recruited them, or was trying to fish them for their roles by counterclaiming him and saying they weren't roleblocked on the nights he mentioned.

Might want to be careful when fakeclaiming targets. If anyone else caught this, joe couldn't been gone a lot sooner.