Large Normal 92 - Game Over! Scum Win!

[hewitt]

Oh my God I'm such an idiot, OKAY reading everything I freaking missed.

[hewitt]

Okay it's page 1 and I'm already annoyed with Mastin.

Page 2- Mastin is reminding me of Zazier at first, and not in a good way. Trying to end the random vote stage I applaud though because it generally annoys me so kudos for that I guess. Unless you're just doing that as scum to try to get the town to applaud you, hmmm.

Page 3- Jeez zwets what's with the personal attacks on zer0 already? I semi-agree with nzraster about Mastin's posting however I dislike the tone of the post. It seemed really like, I'm better then you and I know how to play this game better than you and this is how you should be playing it.

Page 4- OMG Mastin enough praising yourself for ending the RVS, CONGRATS already, do you want a trophy or something? Dust- I disagree with you saying that zwets is unreadable. I think he's fairly readable, much more so than say an Empking. AHAHA! Yay someone finally notices I'm in this game! How exciting! (BTW I'm typing this as I read it- this is when zoraster votes me).

Page 5- Wtf orangepenguin? Killa seven hadn't even posted yet...so that means everybody who hadn't posted yet is equally as scummy yet you call him out? Way to immediately jump on Empking's back zoraster, can you go for an easier target? Oh. I was unaware that you were joking orangepenguin, although I really didn't find it very funny. Ugh, I hate it when people are like THESE people are for sure our scum (Mastin) when it's page 5.

Page 6- Okay StevieT92 don't just say you have a read on Mastin it would be nice if you just explained what your read is instead of waiting for someone to ask you what it is. God I hate it when players do that. And wtf? You're waiting for a more appropriate time to disclose it? Why would you even say you have a read on him then? Cause you want him to claim first...I hate it when players pretend like they're all-knowing...

Page 7- I agree with Dust on policy lynches. I feel they're really anti-town with smaller games but bigger games I'm much more open to them. Oh jeez, I cannot read Mastin's long posts, too ADD. I don't like how you're accusing pretty much just the people on your bandwagon of being scum Mastin.

Page 8- I agree with orangepenguin- Why shouldn't the scum just sit back and let Mastin throw out *possibly* false accusations and tunnel on certain players? It'd be perfect for them. lol thank you zoraster for prodding me otherwise I never would've figured out that Large Normal 92 - Full (Replacements Welcome) was not the game thread!

Page 9- ...Claim by Devestation?

Page 10- lol I can't even take Devestation seriously at this point. I call bullshit on his claim. I hate how orangepenguin backed him immediately too. At this point, I think my vote would be on orangepenguin.

Page 11- ...Woww. I'm not even quite sure what to say about Mastin claiming lyncher. I do kind of think this would all make sense if Mastin was the jester, his behavior at the beginning, the claim of scum, the walls of text that annoy everybody, the tunneling, etc. Okay well this changes everything because if Mastin is telling the truth then Devestation is most likely telling the truth too and ahhh my head hurts! OH, OH, OH, yes! Thank you Dust for asking Stevie what his thoughts are now that Mastin's claimed I was hoping someone would do that.

Page 12- orangepenguin is way too eager beaver to get Mastin lynched. I feel like he's giddy with joy that Mastin has claimed an anti-town role and he has a bigger opportunity to get him lynched. Ugh StevieT92 that was so anti-climatic about what you thought Mastin was, don't understand why you couldn't have just said that earlier I don't get what the point of waiting it out was. BUT, I do agree that if Mastin is the lyncher he's lying about his target and purposely breadcrumbed Red Coyote so that he could say oh look I breadcrumbed! Doesn't add up, if you're the lyncher Mastin, you're lying about your target. OMG Empking I'm going to kill you if you don't do something other than "Why is Mastin still here?"

Page 13- WOOT! So excited I'm almost all caught up!!! Okay Mastin you are such a bullshitter! There's absolutely no way you're telling the whole truth. You're lying about something that is for sure, what it is...I have no idea yet. So I'm incredibly uneasy about voting for you in case you're jester (because I think that's still a big possibility).

Vote: orangepenguin

For everything I disliked about you in my post. You are just so overjoyed that Mastin claimed lyncher and so excited to lynch him for that. I don't like it when players tunnel on one player and nitpick everything they do to try to get them lynched. I also just don't like you and would be happy to play this game without you.

[hewitt]

Please note that I hesitated to vote for [Mastin] because I thought there may have been some win condition that [he] could gain from posting like that. [Mastin was] just being a bit TOO obvious if [he was] a player with a lynch winning condition.

What role did you think he was?

I wasn't sure at the time. I thought maybe jester initially, as I further posted, I thought Mastin could be anything. I'm not that experienced in mafia, at least by respects of scum hunting, and I've come to learn that sometimes it is better for me to take a step back before I open my mouth. Although, I'm still guilty for saying the wrong things.

Also, Mastin's erratic behavior didn't seem all that odd to me r/t behavior I've seen in another game. Call it metagaming if you'd like, but if I had never seen mastin in the context of a game before I most likely would have just voted him based on ignorance.

I would just like to throw out there that Mastin's actions totally contradict everything I've seen playing with him.

[hewitt]

It's true though Mastin I've never seen you play this way before sooo it's not like I was lying or anything. You're just acting strange to me and maybe Devastation is lying I don't know yet. It's certainly a possibility. You are just like, begging to be lynched today and I'm totally not buying it.

[hewitt]

Okay that's cool and all Mastin, but that totally did nothing to make me believe you're being 100% honest. I'm not saying you're completely bullshitting everything, but I mostly think you're lying about your target.

[hewitt]

You said yourself that you were trying to breadcrumb Cop as well as throwing in lyncher.

I breadcrumbed lyncher in the RVS. Nobody would've thought about it, had I not pointed it out.

I breadcrumbed cop the minute we were launched out of it. I stayed in my cop meta via my tunneling; the evidence would've been overwhelming day two, if all went according to my plan.
.

*HEAD DESK* Which is *WHY* I am voting you. You claimed that in the RVS stage, were OBV. scum, and then once you deemed RVS over, you started acting like you were so townie. That CLAIM in the RVS is why I was originally suspicious of you, and why I am not going to remove my vote on you.

BREAD CRUMBS..mean nothing. Anyone can bread crumb. ANYONE.

If you think his breadcrumbing is bullshit do you believe what he's saying then?

[hewitt]

Name|Reason|Threat Level
27. orangepenguin | HOLY *censored*, THIS GUY'S SO SCUMMY! | EASY

This is a rough graph of how hard it is to lynch people.

Great reasoning. Way to insult me. Easy? LOL. Just look at the people on my wagon. cateraction, Maturin24, hewitt, Mastin

Name|Reason|Threat Level
3. Maturin24 | Not Active Enough | Low-Mediocre\
5. Mastin | Claimed Lyncher | Easy, but unless my lyncher target is myself (that'd be hilarious, but, no), not what I'd push for.
6. hewitt | Lurking | Easy
25. cateraction | Meh | Mediocre-Low

This is a rough graph of how hard it is to lynch people.

So two non-active posters, a 'meh' (whatever that means), and an anti-town player. I find hewitt's post truly confusing, since he also thinks you're scummy. So I am scummy for pushing your lynch (yes, I am and will push your wagon now), but he can be hypocritical about it?

I can't just go into this situation thinking the best possible scenario is for Mastin to be lynched today. If anything I would rather get some information and help out of him first, he says he wants to be a pro-town player...so why not give him a chance? We've got a lot of time until the deadline...

[hewitt]

Well, he can give us information. I am not stopping him. He posts way more than the majority of the players, so we can get a lot from him if he offers it. He SAYS. That doesn't mean he will. He can be a 'pro-town' player all he wants, but he is still a lyncher. He can be 'pro-town' and make cases on people, but from my first-hand experience this game, I know for a fact that his "pro-town scum hunting" is terrible. There are 20 other players. Most of them have played before and know how to catch scum. I think it is noble and all, if Mastin is telling the truth- I like Mastin, just not this game. He just said he wasn't smart scum or something to that effect, in response to one of my points, and he's wrong. Mastin is pretty smart. He knows how to tricky people, and the play it off as innocence. In his first game, I was an IC, and Mastin was scum. He had this very scummy plan. I was one of the few who defended him, when most jumped on him. I figured he was new and made a mistake and probably wasn't scum. BIG MISTAKE. He was scum, I fell for it, and the scum won, I think. I won't let him fool me twice.

Well then if he proves to be unhelpful then we lynch his dumb ass. And just to clarify, because you talk an awful lot here about Mastin being scum and tricking you, you think he's the lyncher right and not scum?

This is the problem, Mastin is smart enough to pull something shady. For all we know, Devastation could be in on it, Devastation could be lying, am I alone in thinking that something here just does not add up?

Hewitt's post is OK. I would just like to ask a question Hewiit: who do you find pro-town? anti-town? At this stage in the game, and why?

Those are two very tough questions right now. If Mastin is telling the truth then I would say Mastin is pro-town albeit he's not town (weird eh?). But considering I think he's lying I would have to say he's the most anti-town at the moment although not the person I would like to see lynched. Because I think he's lying, I'm afraid to lynch him in case this whole lyncher thing turns out to be a farce and he's say, jester. Um other than him I think Empking is anti-town (as usual) and ryan2754 is pro-town.

[hewitt]

I'm guessing there's a vig in this game Mastin, could be wrong about that but if I had to take an educated guess I would say there is one.

[hewitt]

Agreed.
Which is why they'll shoot me.

But if there is very doubtfully a vig to take care of the jester (and sometimes, even then), the town lynches them.
(Dang, it's so hard referring to myself as NOT part of the town.)

I would support the vig killing you =)

[hewitt]

Okay orangepenguin that was a complete, by the book, appeal to emotion right there.

[hewitt]

Again, Mastin, I don't see why to believe Red Coyote is your lynchee and honestly there's really not much you can say to make me believe that until you prove yourself worthy in this game and do a great job of scumhunting. If you're going to be "honorary townie", fine whatever, then make yourself useful and find scum.

[hewitt]

Also:

Why would I, as a Jester, want to stay alive today, yet advocate for my vigging?

That'd be a reverse Jester, which is definitely not a role I'd expect in any Normal game, even with unusual roles already proven to be in the game.

WIFOM

Trying to get yourself lynched so you're trying to seem that you're not the Jester by doing that.

[hewitt]

WIFOM

Hmm, true, I suppose.
Like I said, it's late. Not really thinking about these common things, such as wifom and all that.

But you DO know that I can't be lying unless Devestation is also lying, and somehow was so lucky in targeting the Jester, and put amazing detail into a false result, to get me lynched, in your scenarios where you are thinking I'm the Jester, correct?

Dev confirmed me. If one of us is lying, both are.

True I guess, so you are either both lying or you're lying about your target. That's what it basically comes down to for me. It's much more likely that you're just lying about your target though.

[hewitt]

so you are either both lying or you're lying about your target. That's what it basically comes down to for me. It's much more likely that you're just lying about your target though.

Ahg.

I can't wait 'til the game's over if I die as a Lyncher, so that the mod can confirm that, this whole time, I've been holding NOTHING back and that I'm telling the truth about Red being my target. :/

I wouldn't being playing smart if I trusted you at your word now would I Mastin?

[hewitt]

I wouldn't being playing smart if I trusted you at your word now would I Mastin?

You'd be playing stupid, really.

It's frustrating.

By my own admition, it's best to distrust the word of the lyncher claim.

Yet I know I'm telling the truth.

You can see the problem in that, I'm sure.

Of course. Jeez, some players are going to be so flipping annoyed by our basically one-on-one dialogue.

[hewitt]

If so, why are you voting OP for his vote of Mastin?

That was not the sole reason I voted for OrangePenguin.

I can't just go into this situation thinking the best possible scenario is for Mastin to be lynched today. If anything I would rather get some information and help out of him first, he says he wants to be a pro-town player...so why not give him a chance? We've got a lot of time until the deadline...

This seems to be a departure from your previous thoughts. Would you explain this?

Incorrect this is most definitely not a departure from my previous thoughts, I'm pretty sure I've been deadset against lynching Mastin today the whole time. I can't decide whether he's lying or not is the issue, not whether I would like to see him lynched today or not. I don't quite see how we're really being benefited other than the fact that we won't get his incredibly annoying walls of text anymore. I think he should be saved for a later day, we have time.

If Mastin is telling the truth then I would say Mastin is pro-town albeit he's not town (weird eh?). But considering I think he's lying I would have to say he's the most anti-town at the moment although not the person I would like to see lynched.

Wait, I think I misunderstood you. Are you voting OP because he is the second highest vote getter or because you think he's scummy?

Uh, no. I don't play that type of game. I don't vote for people because they are the "second highest vote getter."

Emp - Borderline active lurker, shows support of a Mastin lynch, doesn't give strong impressions on any other aspects of the game.

Trying to push attention off of Mastin is anti-town.

I don't think there's such thing as pushing attention off Mastin, I think he's pretty much imprinted in our mind's and in our thoughts every post we make this game. This statement is outlandish and unhelpful, fact.

So to summarize, I think the odds of Mastin being a Jester are miniscule. Even though we could "do better" with a lynch as Tar has stated earlier, we also could still do worse (lynching a pro town role such as doc, cop, vig, etc.)

What are the chances of that happening though? I don't think I've ever seen a power role lynched without claiming first and I don't think I've ever seen a power role lynched D1. I doubt we're going to end up lynching a power role today.

I agree with Zor and we also like to point out that if we do not lynch someone who is known to be anti-town (Mastin), then our chances of lynching a townie goes up significantly.

In other words:
We lynch Mastin, we keep all our townies.
We don't lynch Mastin, we probably lose a townie.

This is the only thing that matters.

Damn everybody is so negative. Let's focus on not losing a townie and instead try to lynch scum, awesome. And if we lynch Mastin today are we in a much better situation tomorrow? Do we have a significantly greater chance of not lynching a townie than we do today?

Let me make my opinion quite clear- Mastin has got to go. Does Mastin have to go today? I think absolutely not and I don't think he should go today. If we believe he's telling the whole truth then he's absolutely nothing to worry about right???

Holy posts batman! I do believe that I asked the activity to die down a little bit? It seems the opposite has happened. Why, oh why?

... Why would you want that.

Mastin is lying about his lynchee, and I think his lynchee is OP.

We need to lynch Mastin today.

Would you like to back this statement up?

Mastin is lying about his lynchee, and I think his lynchee is OP.

I would not be surprised at all. It's hilarious seeing the town listen to him though. I am pretty sure he is lying though. This is why I want lynched day 1 instead of 2, because we don't know for sure who his lynchee is, other than his word. We could mislynch on a townie today and the day would be wasted, whereas lynching Mastin day 1 would prevent a mislynch, and then Day 2, we can focus on finding scum. But Mastin has twisted this to compare it to a no lynch, which is stupid. Mastin =/= a no lynch.

WTF? Yes, we should not focus on finding scum and instead wait until D2 to do that? WOW! That makes great sense!

... This is exactly why I think you're opportunistic scum, this post basically sums up the reason why I'm voting for you.

If I reach L-3, I'd want any conversion role to claim. If they exist, then we can afford to not lynch me. Put the doc on the conversion role, have the conversion role convert me (obviously) and ask the vig to shoot me, just in case.

Okay listen, just so that your head can deflate a little bit, you are really not that important Mastin. We can afford to lynch you anytime we feel the need to, is that need right now? No. But you are not crucial in a town win.

-Get one gigantic post with everything I've said in my defense in the game

I swear to God, do not flipping do this...I don't think it'll be helpful to your case.

Mastin: We have better odds on hitting mafia day 2 than day 1.

NOT IF WE LYNCH SCUM TODAY YOU DINGBAT.

Pray, can someone tell me where this idea of masons recruiting people came up?

if you're all being hypothetical... that's pretty unproductive. not to mention profligate on the posts which may well lead to nothing at all...

...Who are you???

That's fine, but given the time it takes, I'll continue to push your lynch. You've shown me no data that has flatly contradicted my point: lynching you D1 is preferable to lynching you D2. THIS is why I'm trying to get you not to waste your time and ours by giving us your best possible case.

Are you going to play this entire game off data? Because that would be very unhelpful of you. This game isn't a big math equation because you don't know the problem, so let's not even pretend like you do.

i'm voting him because his posts are long.

because his arguments are all over the place.

the only thing he's left to claim now is doctor or mafia.

his claim of us finding half the scum in all the accusations he's made - makes it easy to claim that when he's accusing half of the active players

his insistence on mason recruiters
his "guess" at being a N1 vig target
this is conjecture at best.
serves as rolefish bait at best, unnecessary fluff at worst.

people who have said discussion is good, it gives information... well, after killing Mastin and after the resolution of all night actions, if you can't get information from analysing his interaction after that (from over 5 pages of content solely from Mastin) - then it strikes me that your hypothesis is unfounded.

where/when do you draw the line between discussion and distraction?
how much do you need to sift through - to get information?

do you expect to crack the game on day 2?
is this even a game?
is it some boring scientific analysis?

play it. don't flog the fun out of it.

Oh. You actually semi-contribute to the game. Okay.

i will be voting azhrei tomorrow.

Do you care to explain why? Or are you waiting for a written request from another play asking you to explain.

By the way, I'm really worried that this game has ceased (if it ever was) to be fun for the other players involved. As such, I am now limiting any post I make to 250 of unquoted words (to compare, my last one was roughly 1500 words). I reserve the right to revoke this tomorrow, but for today, I'll limit myself.

I could blame Mastin for starting the wall of texts, but I'm complicit as well. Brevity is the soul of wit, and I can't help but feel we're saying much of the same thing to each other anyway.

Are you kidding? I'm having bunches of fun! This is like, my favorite game I've ever been in as of yet, and it's only D1!

Caboose, no. I will not vote for someone unless I think they are scum. Which I don't think Mastin is.

Correct! People, MASTIN ISN'T SCUM. He isn't scum! My main goal for today is to find scum and I feel like most players are not playing with that goal in mind, especially OrangePenguin, Empking, zwets, zoraster, and StevieT92. All of whom I feel are the most opportunistic players in this game and most likely to be scum at this point. And none of you can even try to shift that on to Mastin because it isn't possible for him to be scum!

Caboose, no. I will not vote for someone unless I think they are scum. Which I don't think Mastin is.

Do you think Mastin is telling the truth about who his lynchee is?

I forgot but Caboose should be on the opportunistic list as well.

Mastin is a lyncher and Dev claimed JOAT.

That is not even close to an adequate summary of this game.

[hewitt]

One of the reasons I've decided to impose a 250 word limit is because I think that people will just pick out a few sentences from any post anyway. This is what's happened here. My assertion with data was a pretty small part of the total reason for voting for Mastin. It became a "deal" when Mastin called my math wrong and selective.

This bothers me. If you're saying he has to go at some point, when is that point for you? When is a better day than today?

Second, I don't believe -- and nor do I think should you -- that he's telling the whole truth.

Every time someone says this with such certainty it makes me recoil. I understand that the most likely scenario is that he's Lyncher and if he's lying it's simply about his target. But the number of times I've seen it said that there's just simply no way that he could be scum makes me think that it's plausible he could be.

Again, I'm not pushing his lynch because of this at all. My more logical side thinks the simplest solution is usually the correct one (rather than a complex conspiracy between Dev and Mastin... perhaps even using the day talk ability Mastin mentioned off hand for a while).

Anyway, just want to reassert that my reason for lynching Mastin has to do with the fact he's lyncher probably lying about his target.

(240 words. just under the limit!)

I don't care about the word limit, it was the probabilities that really annoyed me.

The day I want Mastin to go is the day after we've lynched scum. If we're going to not lynch scum I would rather it be after we've already at least lynched one, if this isn't until D4 or D5 I'm completely fine with that.

And I think it's bullshit that you think there's a possibility Mastin could be scum. At this point I've even given up that he's the Jester, there's a slight chance but I don't think that chance is anything substantial. I'm pretty damn convinced he's Lyncher. And I'm pretty damn sure you think so as well.

And I don't think you're being logical in this at all, and you seem like a pretty logical guy (considering all the talk of the probablities even though I hate that). I can't believe that you're being opportunistic like this and voting for someone who we pretty much know isn't scum. I'm calling opportunistic scum right here, you seem too smart to play like this as town.

Unvote, Vote: zoraster

If Mastin is lynched today I feel that we've basically wasted the day. It hasn't really been too much time (real time) for a D1 and I don't feel that much will have been accomplished in this day. We'll basically have lynched a player who wasn't even a threat that day. If anything, hold off until tomorrow when he actually IS a threat and can win the game.

[hewitt]

Mastin: We have better odds on hitting mafia day 2 than day 1.

NOT IF WE LYNCH SCUM TODAY YOU DINGBAT..

Yes if we hit mafia today we have worse odds on hitting mafia tommorow than 100%, what's your point?

And is there a problem with that? Would you rather not scumhunt today? Because you are 100% not scumhunting in this game right now. You are sitting back and doing absolutely nothing along with half the players in this game right now. You are all sitting back and convincing yourselves that it is alright to vote Mastin who we are pretty damn sure is not scum instead of scumhunting. It's pretty ridiculous in my opinion.

See, it's this last sentence that I've fought against and used numbers. "If anything." Why would we wait if we're going to do it tomorrow anyway? The only logical explanation given has been we don't know if Mastin will be made pro-town tomorrow. But that only flies as far as you believe there's a mason recruiter. And it's coupled with the fact there's an even greater chance Mastin will claim recruited Mason tomorrow.

So I don't mind if you argue against his lynch period -- we can have an honest disagreement about what type of negative effect Mastin's existence creates -- but I'd like to see this "in the alternative" argument dropped by those advocating not lynching him.

But see I don't want to lynch him tomorrow anyway unless we hit scum today. I'm saying if anything to do anything to hold off lynching him for today. The whole focus of today has been focused on a player who isn't scum, and that pretty much sucks ass. I would rather refocus the town's energy into scumhunting.

and you just messed up the entire page with that pointless post. Great job.

Mod: Can you please edit the lol to something less of a screw up?

Actually, for me it is still fine. Hewitt's point was pretty ridiculous though.

What? How is scumhunting instead of focusing on a player that isn't scum ridiculous?

[hewitt]

You are all sitting back and convincing yourselves that it is alright to vote Mastin who we are pretty damn sure is not scum instead of scumhunting. It's pretty ridiculous in my opinion.

Pretty damn sure he's not scum? He claimed lyncher which is an anti-town role! IMHO, a 100% chance of hitting an anti town role D1 is fantastic, so why not take it?

Lyncher does not equal scum now does it? No, it doesn't. If you believe him then what threat is he right now? He poses absolutely no threat right now!

[hewitt]

You were not scumhunting. You were saying "Who are you?".

Honestly? That's all you're taking out of my posts? Wow.

hewitt, are you seriously buying what Mastin is saying, especially when lying about his lynchee is the only way he can still win?

I don't get why you're defending this.

No of course I"m not buying who he claims his lynchee is. I don't get why you're being so opportunistic. This whole entire game Caboose, from your very first post has been centered around Mastin, and has not changed since then. About 22/26 of your posts have centered around Mastin. Can you do anything else in this game.

[hewitt]

I can understand that some people are fairly narrowminded in their view of the game. It's a matter of not seeing multiple moves down the game. That said, I don't think not holding my view makes someone scummy.

Let me make this clear so that people understand that I do see why some people are voting for Mastin. The town players are generally voting for Mastin because he's an anti-town role and they feel that the game would be easier without him. I fulheartedly disagree with this direction and I have to be forceful with my arguments just so that people will listen at this point. It's very close to a Mastin lynch and obviously I do not want this so I have to be vehement in my responses.

[hewitt]

I can understand that some people are fairly narrowminded in their view of the game. It's a matter of not seeing multiple moves down the game. That said, I don't think not holding my view makes someone scummy.

Let me make this clear so that people understand that I do see why some people are voting for Mastin. The town players are generally voting for Mastin because he's an anti-town role and they feel that the game would be easier without him. I fulheartedly disagree with this direction and I have to be forceful with my arguments just so that people will listen at this point. It's very close to a Mastin lynch and obviously I do not want this so I have to be vehement in my responses.

I don't think being vehement in your responses is a bad thing. You think what you think.

That said, I think you're dead wrong. It's not just easier without him, it improves town's chances of winning (and no, that's not a reference to statistics in this case).

Anyway, I think it's interesting to note that since Mastin has been busy and not able to post more than a couple of times since Saturday, we've had a ton more people contribute than normal. I'm not saying there's a perfectly inverse relationship between his activity level and other's activity level, but I do think it's not a coincidence.

So explain exactly to me what the advantage of lynching him today versus tomorrow is.

[hewitt]

1. I see no reason why we can't scum hunt on D1 and D2.

2. This I cannot deny but I don't think it's important.

3a. This is possible, however, if we kind of officially warn Mastin that he needs to post less and with shorter posts I'm sure he'll listen.

3b. There's always going to be a fight about something, if not about Mastin it'll be about something else. I don't mind fighting, I encourage it because it shows players' true colors a lot better than passive conversation. I believe I've learned much about certain players through the Mastin deal.

4. If Mastin fake claims we should urge the Masons or whoever to not come out and talk about it and then we just lynch his ass. I see no problem with this.

[hewitt]

If he's real claiming then we would be stuck in a sticky situation, it would pretty much be up to the masons discretion if they want to come out and confirm him.

[hewitt]

Mod-Edit Votecount 1-26

Mastin - 11

(Caboose, zu_Faul, Empking's Alt, orangepenguin, NanooktheWolf, zoraster, King, Phoebus, AceMarksman, StevieT92, Zer0ph34r)

OrangePenguin - 5

(cateraction, Maturin24, Mastin, Azhrei, Tarhalindur)

Zer0ph34r - 2

(ryan2754, Devestation)

NanooktheWolf - 1

(Amished)

zoraster - 1

(hewitt)

StevieT92 - 1

(zwetschenwasser)

Phoebus - 1

(RedCoyote)

Not Voting - 5

(alvinz25, White Castle, Dust, killa seven, Knight of Cydonia)

With 27 alive, it takes 14 to lynch.

---

Who will read a 30 page day 1?

People who keep up with the times will have been reading it all along. I jumped in halfway through this day and I'm doing fine. Not that difficult.

You were not scumhunting. You were saying "Who are you?".

Honestly? That's all you're taking out of my posts? Wow.

I was talking about that one specific point.

... This has got to be a joke lol. I can't even take you seriously right now.

[hewitt]

May I ask why you display this anti-town attitude?

(Not taking a player serious is anti-town obv., as input by that player will be neglected.)

Out of everything I psoted that was game relevant you chose to pick out a joke line I threw in there. That's what I can't take seriously.

Why is wanting to lynch anti-town opportunistic?

hewitt is scum.

You're being opportunistic because you're contributing basically nothing to this game relevant to scumhunting and hopping on the Mastin bandwagon. And if you think I'm scum you should be voting for me.

[hewitt]

Oh, and you still did not explain why town would not want to hammer Mastin.

Yeah, I read your quote. Scum may get on the wagon early. The scum may be lurking to victory, too, meaning all of this crap about Mastin is moot.

I'm not going to account for every possibility. Just because the scum may have been the first to start the wagon on Mastin doesn't mean that the person who hammers Mastin is town. Scum want the days to end as soon as possible, that's a fact you can take to the bank.

I 100% agree, I can't really imagine or see reasoning behind town hammering Mastin.

[hewitt]

Umm, no. It seems as I am caught in a crossroads. So what do I do? I speculate as to which move may be scummier - to hold my vote, or remove it after Mastin's recents posts. I look to see which option would make me less scummy (aka the more pro-town move). You may think this a very anti-town thing to do, but I have done this in games before (had to choose between keeping a vote, or removing it after a wagon gets going) and I chose to unvote. People considered me scummy for it, but they were wrong. I looked at what would be the more pro-town thing to do in my eyes, as a way to help town. Either way, it's a lose lose situation for me because either way, people are considering me scummy. It's not a whine.

Don't be so worried about what you think other players' will think of your actions and do what you think is right.

Is Tar the only experienced plauer not voting Mastin?

Are you going to contribute any of your thoughts and observations?

Yes, but doesn't this contradict what you said of "Mastin's lynch gives us no information"? Can't you see that a Mastin lynch would give us information?

Please explain what information we will gain from a Mastin lynch.

Where is the difference between hammering and voting?

Hammering is the concious decision by a single player to end the day and end all conversation/speculations/observations about a player with a large amount of votes. A vote that's not a hammer does not end anything, hammering ends a lot.

a) I won't answer all of the points made by all the palyers. This is obvious.
b) I did not even accuse you of anything. Why so picky? I did not say "hewitt is scum" and neither did I say "hewitt is not posting game relevant stuff, look here:".

a) You don't have to, I just don't understand why you would pick out a joke line instead of something else that's game relevant.
b) ... I didn't say you were accusing me of anything. You have to be picky in games like this and I would rather you were conversing with me about something game relevant rather than something that was not.

[hewitt]

Mod-Edit Votecount 1-27

Mastin - 11

(Caboose, zu_Faul, Empking's Alt, orangepenguin, NanooktheWolf, zoraster, King, Phoebus, AceMarksman, StevieT92, Zer0ph34r)

OrangePenguin - 5

(cateraction, Maturin24, Mastin, Azhrei, Tarhalindur)

Zer0ph34r - 1

(ryan2754)

NanooktheWolf - 1

(Amished)

zoraster - 1

(hewitt)

StevieT92 - 1

(zwetschenwasser)

Phoebus - 1

(RedCoyote)

Not Voting - 6

(alvinz95, White Castle, Dust, killa seven, Knight of Cydonia, Devestation)

With 27 alive, it takes 14 to lynch.
Alvinz95, Maturin24, Knight of Cydonia and killa seven prodded.

---

Also

Prod: Maturin24

[hewitt]

As to 3, no, there isn't anything I know that you don't, but there is still a chance that a recruiting mason or a lyncher-psych (don't think they exist, but ya never know) or something else that can fix mastin up. Note the word 'chance'. I don't know that it will happen, but I know that it is possible. Hence, chance.

Well, using that logic, why are we trying to lynch scum at all? There might be a magical role that will turn the scum into town.

Are you going to reply to anything I said about you Caboose?

[hewitt]

Let's see how about that I accused you of being unhelpful, not scumhunting, shamelessly hopping on a wagon without any original opinion, and not voting for me instead even though you accused me of being scum.

Unvote

[hewitt]

If the Mason doesn't come out to confirm him then I think the smartest thing to do would be to lynch him. This is if he claims and the Mason decides not to come out and confirm him and really it's the Mason's choice whether or not to even decide to do it. I think the Mason really has Mastin's fate in his hands (that is if the general town decides not to lynch him) and I'm totally fine with that.

[hewitt]

I "scumhunt" how I wish.
I don't need anyone to tell me how and when to do it.

Then your "scumhunting" sucks.

Vote: Caboose

For not even attempting to find scum and instead tunnel on Mastin through pretty much the whole game, apart from nonsensically calling me and Azhrei scum.

I'm giving you my opinion. What else do you want?

And let's go to the votecount:

Mastin - 11 (Caboose, zu_Faul, Empking's Alt, orangepenguin, NanooktheWolf, zoraster, King, Phoebus, AceMarksman, StevieT92, Zer0ph34r)

Hmmmm... Looks like I'm the first vote there.
Must've hopped on the non-existant bandwagon.

I'll go back and see if I should be the first vote or if that's a typo.

Hm actually you were not the first vote on Mastin, you were the third. Nice try. Go back and reread if you don't believe me.

I only have one vote.

And you're not using it to vote for the people you believe are scum. That makes sense.

[hewitt]

Vote: Caboose

[hewitt]

I could've swore I answered that.

WIFOM

I don't think I can answer these questions. I'm sure the Mason would have good reasons to do or not do it. It really is all up to his discretion.

[hewitt]

I don't think I can answer these questions. I'm sure the Mason would have good reasons to do or not do it. It really is all up to his discretion.

Why would you be unable to answer this question? Is there a logical reason a Mason would Mason Mastin if he knows he [the mason] will not claim, thus dooming Mastin?

FoS: hewitt

Who says he won't? It's up to him if he wants to claim or not. I will be casting a vote on Mastin if he claims and the Mason does not confirm it but that doesn't mean he'll be lynched. Or perhaps the Mason will confirm it or perhaps the Mason will be like okay fuck Mastin I'm not doing this and Mastin doesn't fake claim and this is all speculation for nothing.

[hewitt]

Has anyone considered that there may be masons in the game who can't recruit?

I can't say that I'm pro mafia theory when there isn't any evidence of the particular theory ..

Outguessing the mod = Don't hold your breath

There's too many possibilities to even begin guessing.

[hewitt]

I never even said it was imperative for Mason to recruit Mastin in the first place. This isn't my line of reasoning, you're using my words to construct a line of reasoning that isn't mine.

[hewitt]

My main reason for keeping Mastin alive (as I'm pretty sure it has been this whole time) is because there are more important things to do such as scumhunting. If you want to argue the Mason argument with somebody you should be arguing it with someone who would like to keep Mastin alive for that main reason then go ahead. But that person isn't me.

[hewitt]

As good as your speculation is zoraster it's nothing but speculation. I'm not going to worry about it unless the potential situation arises. And for right now I'm going to focus on scumhunting and wait until Caboose answers me back.

[hewitt]

Okay now I'm getting a headache. I would really love it if some of the other players actually did some scumhunting or at least SOMETHING before voting Mastin.

[hewitt]

There's been no scumhunting so far...? What have you guys been doing for 29 pages?!

Read and find out. And I said certain players not everybody. There's been a helluva lot of tunneling on a player who is pretty confirmed not scum.

[hewitt]

Well, I always figured a 3rd Party was against the town up until the lynchee got NK'd, where the lyncher would then join town. But now that I think about it, hewitt.... FFS, we're in a 27 player game... Do we really need to keep a 3rd party alive until he's possibly converted?

If we could vote for a No Lynch, I'd be cool with that, honestly. Then we could let Dev & any other investigative roles do their thing during NP.

I don't think he has to be converted but I don't think today is the right day to kill him. I'm not so confident with a no lynch, especially talking about it this early. And I'm also pretty confident in my vote soooo yeah.

You haven't done much scum hunting yourself. People are voting Mastin for legitimate reasons, that you continue to ignore.

Yeah but see those people...have done absolutely nothing else in this game so far. I have at least explored possibilities with several other players and I think I've done a lot better job scumhunting than those players. It's pretty obvious considering they're tunneling someone who is pretty much confirmed not scum. I don't think even you believed that when you said it.

As for the legitimate reasons I think most players on the Mastin wagon are convincing themselves that there's no need to do anything else today when there's a lot more that they can focus on.

Hewitt gives me the impression that he has a suicidal role...

Hewitt, if you honestly can produce something valuable out of this.. clusterf**k of a situation, then please speak up. I'm willing to take my vote off, but I'd rather see progress being made with Mastin's death.

What kind of scumhunting can we do if Mastin is just going to be the central focus of everyone's post? By lynching him, we can eliminate all distraction and move on. If you have anything better to offer, please say so soon.

Huh? Can you please explain how I'm being suicidal? I guess read my posts in iso if you want to know my opinion on the situation lol. I think I made it pretty clear. But anyways I'm pretty confident that at least Caboose is scum based on his tunneling of Mastin, admitting that he thinks other people are scum but not voting for them, and doing absolutely nothing in the form of scumhunting.

[hewitt]

Posting now to preempt any bitching about me not posting. The only thing I am feeling about this game right now is complete apathy about the continual circular conversation currently occurring . Unless someone comes up with new info or claims, I am done posting for day 1.

Why don't you actually do something yourself instead of sitting back and letting other players play for you? It's players like that make this game so circular.

Is it likely there are scum on the Mastin wagon? Almost assuredly. But is it likely there will be scum on a scum lynch? Almost assuredly.

But I would be SO much happier with a scum lynch, that would be great thanks mcuh.

Actually, Mastin has not posted anything at all recently, for which I assume he has a good excuse for. There is no reason why I cannot wait another few days for these statistics, unless he it looks like he needs a replacement or we get a deadline.

Out of all the players not contributing this game at the moment Mastin is the least need for a replacement. There are players who haven't posted in over five days.

I never said that you should stop discussing, I just said that I don't care about what is being said anymore. This lynch is a pretty simple choice in my mind. I'm not trying to speak on behalf of anyone but myself, whether or not they or voting the same way as me. As for anyone who is catching up, unless they post something new, I don't care.

This is a good post.

(Holds back insult.) You are the worst player in this game, you contribute absolutely nothing. Fact.

We will see people reluctant to end the day, which may both be a town and a scum tell, depending on the way they bring it across. We may see people heavily push for a lynch of mastin, etc.

I think we can already tell a lot by what's been posted so far and not by the time Mastin is lynched. I think it is totally obvious what players are playing opportunistically and acting extremely scummy.

My question was a bit off. It should have been: "What is the difference between voting and hammering from scum's perspective?"
Anyway, while what you said is true, a vote is far more stealthy, and scum like stealth. I don't see the benefits scum would have by choosing hammer over "normal" vote.

I don't think it's so much that a scum would rather vote than hammer than a town player shouldn't/wouldn't hammer Mastin in this situation. It just doesn't really make sense if you think about it. There's been little scumhunting by a lot of players so far and they should know that there'll be pretty much nothing learned that hasn't been learned already by a Mastin lynch.

I agreed with what I read in the highlights, Zora. Mafia can use this

"Mastin show"

as a way to distract townies from having suspicions about them. Since we have no idea who the lynchee is, I'd rather not take the chance of accidentally lynching Mastin's target and losing the game.

If not Mastin, then who do we lynch? There needs to be 14 votes or else we'll hit deadline, and that's virtually the same as the dreaded No Lynch...

NO! You are completely wrong, Mafia can only use this "Mastin show" as a distraction for townies if you let them! If you focus on other players instead, then this wouldn't work. Obviously.

I have an alternative other than Mastin, his name is Caboose and he's been playing like opportunistic scum this whole game who has done nothing but tunneled on Mastin. He has contributed absolutely nothing along the lines of scumhunting and is nonsensical. I believe he's scum. Go read his posts in isolation and then I dare you to come back and tell us all that he's a pro-town player.

[hewitt]

(Holds back insult.) You are the worst player in this game,

The fact that you're not voting Mastin says otherwise.

And once again, you can't even back up your statements with reasoning.

[hewitt]

Do you really need that explained to you?

No, I don't. But it proves that you have no original logic or reasoning in this game. Congrats.

[hewitt]

How does it?

*crawls into a cave to hibernate for 2 weeks*

die
scum
die

seriously, if we leave him alive, we are almost guaranteed to lose RC tonight. Thanks, but no thanks.

Can i come with you?

Why isn't Mastin dead yet?

Good question.

What are you people doing in this game? Because you're certainly not doing anything important or worthwhile. You're not scumhunting, you're not posting anything with substance, and you continue to focus on the player you whine about everybody focusing on. My next question would be, what is wrong with you? I mean, if you're scum (which I'm pretty damn sure at least half of you are) you're doing a great job continue what you're doing. But if you're town...you really suck.

I'm going to keep my vote on Caboose because I believe him to be the scummiest of the three. I would love it if other players in this game would at least notice how scummy he's been this game. It's my goal today to not vote for an anti-town role that can't even win today. It's my goal to find scum and lynch their asses today. And I think I'm doing a pretty good job of that voting Caboose.

I'm encouraging other players to go read Caboose's posts in ISO and then post your thoughts on Caboose. I would really love that, this goes out to everybody.

To Caboose- Way to not respond to me when we were arguing back and forth. I guess you realized I was 100% right and that you were pretty much caught scum. I can't really see any other reason why you wouldn't answer. Nice.

[hewitt]

What does ISO mean?

What are you people doing in this game?

Napping.

Isolation.

And if that's your response then get the fuck out of the game if you're not going to do anything.

[hewitt]

In ISOlation. Go to the bottom of the page, look at where it says "Display post from previous: (drop down menu for all posts) by (drop down menu for All users) *THIS IS THE ONE THAT NEEDS CHANGING*. Make that Caboose, in this case, and hit "Go". It allows you to get a read on people without having to scroll through other people's posts. When I have more time, Caboose will be one of the people that I'll be looking at as well.

Thank you, I'll await your opinion eagerly.

Don't want to discuss anything 'til day 2.

I hate you.

I don't get your attitude, what are you playing at?

[hewitt]

I'm sick of this day phase. Face it, hewitt, NO ONE is going to bandwagon onto OP or Caboose. Damn sure not 14 people. The 11 others voting for Mastin are stubborn; they won't unvote him because they have their personal beliefs that they're doing the right thing, or they're scum who want an easy lynch thanks to Dev's revelation.

I'm voting for Mastin again because, even with him gone, we should have enough town players left to compete against however many scum are in this game.

Hewitt, you should consider the fact that your aggressiveness might put a bullseye on your back during NP. Sometimes it's best to lay low, especially when you're fighting against all the odds.

I thought you had a suicidal role where, if Mastin is lynched, then you have to die the next day or something. But now I understand why you're so strongly opposed to it... You feel it's a waste of a lynch since he's not mafia.

But let me ask you this: If not during D1, then when IS a good time to lynch Mastin?

At this point it's not even so much that I want to convince others to get off the Mastin bandwagon and into lynching Caboose (that would be great but I'm being realistic) but that I want everybody to notice scummy play. I'm not going to let players like Caboose fly under the radar D2 and not be noticed for his scummy play today.

I know my aggressiveness might make me a target but if it's not me it'll be someone else anyway. And I'd at least like to make a ruckus before I go and call out attention on players who I feel deserve it.

I'm pretty sure I've answered this question a couple of times but my ideal time to lynch Mastin would be after we lynch at least one scum. Then at least I'd feel like we've accomplished something.

[hewitt]

Unvote

I'm going back to sleep. Hate me all you want, but we're not getting 14 votes (I doubt even on the Mastin wagon). Somebody let me know when deadline hits.

Eh, I'm content with that. As long as you got something out of my little Caboose schpeel.

[hewitt]

I would like to ask zu_Faul, orangepenguin, NanooktheWolf, zoraster, King, StevieT92, and Zer0ph34r what their opinions on their bandwagon mates Caboose, Empking, Phoebus, and AceMarksman are. And anyone else please feel free to throw their opinion in on those four, I would greatly encourage it.

[hewitt]

Does anyone else want to lynch Hewitt?

Give me three good reasons why you should.

[hewitt]

1. You're spamming the thread.
2. You're trying to make us waste day 2
3. You're trying to protect a known non-town player.

1. I'm having conversations with players, deal with it.
2. You're trying to make us waste D1, and that's a fact.
3. No, I'm trying to lynch scum not lynchers.

4. Why do you say I "contribute nothing to the discussion" when I contribute more than you?

That is an absolute LIE. A shameless, weak, sickening lie.

[hewitt]

Amished, Zwet, ryan, RC, and Hewitt;

running a one man bandwagon is not exactly helping the town.

No, but pointing out scummy players and voting for them is the smartest thing to do. Not my fault if you can't pick up on that. *Hint* It's how we win the game...

Well, Stevie, if people weren't so content to sit on their vote of Mastin and NOT DO ANYTHING, maybe they would actually respond to each of our reasonings for voting those people.

QFT Honestly I thought all players in this game would be smart enough to understand that. Unfortunately we have at least 10 who don't...

[hewitt]

1. Who are you conversing with?
2. Point?
3. No you're protecting Mastin
4. Sickening? Its not a lie the only contribution we need it Mastin votes, not spammers.

I know that some things may be intellectually challenging for you, but if you read the thread your first question would be answered. And admitting that you're purposely wasting D1 is incredibly scummy, for that alone you deserve to be lynched. Town can't afford to waste days. I'm not protecting Mastin, again, if you read the thread you would understand that I don't want him around for very long in this game. And yes it is a lie Empking. You flat out lied. You have contributed absolutely nothing to this game. In fact, you've devalued it with your nonsense.

[hewitt]

Why was I prodded? I posted on sunday?

Why aren't you answering any of the suspicions against you? Just going to ignore them?

To all the one person wagoners (Ryan, Amished, Zwet, RC, hewitt), are you going to continue to vote that person, come deadline, and you're still the only person on the wagon? If you don't, would you switch to Mastin? orangepenguin? Why?

Yes I'm going to continue voting Caboose over a Mastin or OrangePenguin wagon definitely. There are other wagons I would consider (Empking for example) but I'm pretty dead set on Caboose being scum. I don't think there's a single person in this game who can describe his play so far as being pro-town. And yeah it's only D1 and yeah the Mastin wagon may seem obvious to some of you but 37 pages and absolutely no helpful content? That's effing shady.

[hewitt]

That would also ensure that the people not doing anything that *are* on the Mastin wagon do something tomorrow and if Mastin is right about the number of scum on his wagon we should be able to find a bunch of them through that.

Why would you expect them to play better tomorrow if they're not doing anything today. Seriously, those same players that are bitching about how they're bored because everything is to circular are the same ones who are tunneling on one player or not doing anything to help contribute to the town. I personally do not expect them to play any better than this shit today.

[hewitt]

Yes, but a cop won't come out after just one investigation. Therefore they will not have this (by their words for the most part) proven anti-town force around. If they don't do anything, we can call them on it. I have faith in the general population that the townies on Mastin will be more active than they are now.

I also didn't say I expect them to play *better*, just to play. That's often enough to at least start to get a read on their intentions.

They obviously need to be playing though considering their strategy of sitting around and waiting for Mastin to be lynched isn't working very well. 37 pages of conversation have gone by and they haven't done anything, that's just plain pathetic.

hewitt,

37 pages of content + lynch (Mastin's) + Night action resolutions = much more info than
37 pages of content + no lynch + night actions (with potential wifom due to no lynch)

Where are you getting that I support a no lynch? I don't support a no lynch, I support a lynch that I feel is on a scummy player (Caboose for example). I'm not really sure if I can even play more aggressively and campaign for Caboose's lynch harder than I am.

[hewitt]

I strongly disagree with Azhrei's play, I don't think he's playing pro-town and honestly I don't see the case on OrangePenguin anymore. I could understand back when it was the whole devastation coming out with the claim era but now I think there are FAR more scummier players than OrangePenguin.

[hewitt]

Thanks Nanook for answering my question but I didn't answer because I was more focused at the time on other players and your answer doesn't agree with my opinion on Caboose so I kind of passed right over it with rolled eyes.

[hewitt]

*stir it up*

Unvote: Mastin, Vote: Maturin24

.. Do you think that they are cousins?

Lurker hunt!

I chose Maturin based on the fact he's only had 3 posts, the last made the 19th. Maybe needs replacement? .. Maybe needs a bandwagon to get a post out of him?

I actually find it pathetic that Maturin24 has had so few posts, I think that's really ridiculous.

I have a lot of content.

That's a flat out lie. Empking has lied so many times in this game. You have done absolutely nothing substantial this game.

Lurker hunting doesnt really accomplish much.

It's better than being a lurker and doing absolutely nothing. *cough* you *cough*

ryan2754, Amished, zwetschenwasser, RedCoyote, hewitt <--- Those 1-man wagons are nothing more than a ploy for scum to say (on D2), "Hey, let's see who was on the Mastin wagon and heckle them. They're the best choice for lynching scum!" I've seen it too many times before... And if you 5 want to argue with me, then whatever.. I'm just saying it's typical scum-tactic to lay low and not bandwagon.

And jumping on the wagon of a confirmed non-scum player is not a scum-tactic? Hmmm yeah.

I can't believe it's taking this long to lynch a virtually confirmed neutral.

HONESTLY?! Honestly can anybody else really not see how scummy Caboose is? I have (along with other players) attacked him and he has said virtually nothing of our attacks. He's not even defending himself because he knows I'm telling the truth!

Some players (like me, sort of) just prefer faster-paced games and don't like things dragged out for the course of a month. Which, if you're playing mafia..on this site, isn't probably the best thing, because your play will suffer if you're impatient and make up your mind easier.

I don't get what you guys don't understand about this? The MAJORITY does not agree with lynching Mastin right now, that is why he's not lynched. I think the majority would rather use this day to scum hunt instead of wasting it and allowing shithole players like Caboose, Phoebus, and Empking play like they're playing now without attracting attention. I think it's ridiculous that the "Mastin wagon" is letting players like them slide by.

That statement confuses me. He's virtually confirmed anti-town. Anti-town isn't scum, but it's the closest thing to it, and like scum, anti-town need to be lynched.

The day isn't over yet because half of you haven't done anything to help the town in the slightest! More specifically you, Phoebus, and Empking.

Some people don't find him scummy.

If that's true then its a horrible reason.

It is true you s***** PoS. He's not scum!

[hewitt]

I'm pretty sure there were a few people who said his posts were a distraction and didn't want him clogging up the thread. If I quoted WC's message, it would have been kinda thick, so, no thanks still.

Kise is 100% right here.

Vote: Hewit

Dev: You must be he god of mafia players, then.

Mod: Can I confirm that you weren't telling us that Zwet targeted Tar?

Awesome Empking, that is a great reason for voting for me. You're so good at this scumhunting thing.

Vote: Caboose

For absolutely sucking on D1 and not contributing a single useful post in the entire 40 page plus day. And continuing that trend on D2 with some more useless posting. So voting for pretty much the same reasons since D1 except slightly more reinforced because you completely ignored all the comments directed at you by various players yesterday and you weren't just "not on online" because you've posted multiple times since then.

Caboose, Stevie, Mastin, and ryan all read strongly town to me right now;

Amished and Dust are reading weakly town. I'm seeing all of these players scumhunting, even if I don't agree with most of their scum suspects (Amished and Dust's reasoning looks shakier than that of the first four, hence why I have them in the leaning town pile).

Hm. I find that incredibly interesting. The only person in the game to call Caboose pro-town flipped scum...

[hewitt]

Vote: Caboose

[hewitt]

I like the WIFOM hewitt is creating.

What WIFOM? My case on you is all about how you sucked and did absolutely nothing yesterday. It's not WIFOM, it's pointing out solid fact.

[hewitt]

With the amount of stuff packed into the posts in this game, is it really any wonder that I try to pick out short, small things instead of try to wade my way through the Mastin-sized posts?

And also, wanting to lynch 3rd party is NOT a scumtell.

I never said it was a scumtell. The fact that you're completely ignoring all my reasons for voting for you and making up the reason why I think your scummy is a scumtell in itself. Your play has been and continues to be scummy in this game because you don't do anything. Out of all the things to comment on in this game so far you've added absolutely nothing original. It's pretty pathetic and either you're really bad at this game as town or you're scum. I'm leaning towards the latter obviously.

And if you can't handle all the "stuff packed into the posts"...why are you playing?

[hewitt]

Also, why are you tunnelling on me, when there are other lurkers out there (Empking)?

Because I think you're the scummiest and you don't adequately respond to me.

[hewitt]

Also, why are you tunnelling on me, when there are other lurkers out there (Empking)?

Because I think you're the scummiest

circular logic

and you don't adequately respond to me.

if you talked to some of these other lurkers, would they?

It's circular logic because talking to you is like talking to a brick wall. You don't answer adequately so I have to go back to square one over and over again. And why are you deflecting attention on to the other lurkers? I'm not asking them, I'm asking you.

[hewitt]

I think those he named as town probably are. Keep in mind that he knows exactly who is town, and probably named those people as town so that if they were lynched he could say ITYS.

Well now that's not exactly true. If there's two Mafia factions he would have no idea who all else is town and who isn't.

[hewitt]

Kind of like how Caboose and Phoebus never responded when I called them out for lining up lynches yesterday, zu?

I kind of think it's bullshit that nobody else seems to realize how much they evade everything directed at them.

Unvote, Vote: ZeroPhear

Vote: Zero

Vote : Zer0ph34r

Vote: Zer0ph34r

Can't say I'm against this wagon, but this does seem a little quick.

It's not even just the speed of the bandwagon but look at the four players who jump really quickly to it. Not exactly four players who I would've described as overly pro-town on D1.

You still believe Mastin told the truth? Your either daft or protecting RedCoyote for dishonest reasons.

You think it's so unbelievable that he didn't? I've played with mastin before and I can tell when he is being sincere.

Actually though, what possible reasons would he have for lying about his game? He was pretty much caught, it really wouldn't have benefited him at all to lie.

Unvote: Zer0ph34r

Rereading your posts I see that I should have never made that vote ... The scumtells weren't as strong one I read againg in ISO. You've been consistent.

Vote: AceMarksman

Curious what you know about RC? If your only reason for thinking he's town is because of the lynchee target bit then say so, if not what are your other reasons?

Um, your vote was pretty stupid in the first place if that's your reasoning for unvoting. And now you're voting for AceMarksmen without explaining your reasoning why for voting? That's pretty shady as fuck.

@ Hewitt: Has Caboose had any posts that aren't votes or IIoA?

Nope. Nada.

Already addressed this, but will again: From personal experience, mafia members often include both sides of the equation in their suspicious and non-suspicious lists. Most scum don't exclusively consider their partners town, or their partners scum. They choose a mix. Thus, in and of itself, not much to go on, but can be used as supplement data.

So let's say you've got 50/50 then just for the hell of it. Between you, Mastin, Caboose, and StevieT92, Mastin is confirmed non-scum which leaves two out of the three of you left to be possible scum. I think it's pretty obvious to me who those two would be based on D1, Caboose and StevieT92.

[hewitt]

My vote for AceMarksman dates back to the first day as well, so I can't say that I feel all that guilty for returning my vote to Ace.

The reason that I was willing to vote Zero initially was because I really was basing the scum reads from others opinions of him. After actually reading his posts in iso I thought differently. Think of it what you will, but please don't curse when trying to make a point against me, I find it quite brash/disrespectful. Thanks.

Okaaay I'll try to remember not to swear? My problem is that you didn't give any reasoning behind your vote in your post. And you still haven't. I don't care if you don't feel guilty about it, just give us your reasonings.

Ryan; I think Hewitt is scum and I've already given reasons.

Except your reasons suck...

How is it obvious that I am scum at all? You're reaching badly here.

Whoa little bit of an overreaction there bud, nice. Didn't call you scum at all.

I don't believe this. No, I really don't.

Just for you, I'll say it again: Lying was the only way for Mastin to be able to win.

That's what I thought at first too. I don't really think so anymore though, there really wasn't much point. He was trying to prove himself trustworthy enough to keep around so obviously lying wouldn't have benefited him in any way.

Everyone, please direct question at me that are clear and not buried in a mile long post.

Caboose, please read maybe...I don't know...the last FIFTEEN pages of the thread and answer to everybody's accusations/thoughts/theories about you and your scummy playstyle? It's honestly not that hard to keep up. Thanks.

[hewitt]

Unvote: Zer0ph34r

Rereading your posts I see that I should have never made that vote ... The scumtells weren't as strong one I read againg in ISO. You've been consistent.

Vote: AceMarksman

Curious what you know about RC? If your only reason for thinking he's town is because of the lynchee target bit then say so, if not what are your other reasons?

That's it? Because I don't see anywhere you stating your reasons for voting AceMarksman.

[hewitt]

Unvote: Zer0ph34r

Rereading your posts I see that I should have never made that vote ... The scumtells weren't as strong one I read againg in ISO. You've been consistent.

Vote: AceMarksman

Curious what you know about RC? If your only reason for thinking he's town is because of the lynchee target bit then say so, if not what are your other reasons?

That's it? Because I don't see anywhere you stating your reasons for voting AceMarksman.

Post 1145

That doesn't make sense to give your reasonings after you've been asked to give them. You should've given them when you voted.

So let's say you've got 50/50 then just for the hell of it. Between you, Mastin, Caboose, and StevieT92, Mastin is confirmed non-scum which leaves two out of the three of you left to be possible scum. I think it's pretty obvious to me who those two would be based on D1, Caboose and StevieT92.

Whoa little bit of an overreaction there bud, nice. Didn't call you scum at all.

which leaves two out of the three of you left to be possible scum.

I think it's pretty obvious to me who those two would be based on D1

Caboose and StevieT92.

How is it obvious that I am scum at all? You're reaching badly here.

Whoa little bit of an overreaction there bud, nice. Didn't call you scum at all.

Hewitt has been acting pretty scummy, and this is a good example of it. He reaches to call me and Caboose scum for no real reason, except saying it was "obvious" "based on D1"

He then denies ever calling me scum, and calls me defensive. He's throwing sh**, and hoping some sticks, which is very scummy behavior.

unvote, vote: Hewitt

Hahaaa nice try StevieT. You can't pick apart a quote and misuse it and expect me to not realize it. Me and Ryan were having a discussion about who Tarhalindur said was pro-town before he died and who would've been most likely scum. I pointed out that he said Caboose was pro-town and was one of the only players to do so and he flipped scum. In that same quote Tarhalindur pointed out yourself, Ryan, and Mastin. Ryan pointed out that it's most likely scum would give a mix of names, both scum partners and town partners in giving a list on who they think is the most town. So I gave a hypothetical situation where Tarhalindur gave 50/50 on the names, 2 scum, 2 town. Mastin obviously wasn't scum so out of the three left I said who I felt was the two scummiest.

Good try though, way to reach for it StevieT.

[hewitt]

I'm not reaching about anything, I'm correctly pointing out how you are throwing out unsubstantiated attacks (aka throwing sh**), and hoping that it will lead to a bandwagon against a townie even though you are not making a stand about anything. (aka hoping it sticks)

Oh no, on the contrary. You're incredibly reaching for a case on me. I'm hoping that my comment will lead to a bandwagon against you (nice appeal to emotion there by the way)? I make one comment against you saying that between yourself, Ryan, and Caboose, you and Caboose are most likely to be the scum and now I'm leading a bandwagon against you? When I'm clearly trying to start a wagon on Caboose? Yeah, nice try bud. Everything you just said in your paragraph describes exactly what you're attempting to do to me.

When did you suddenly become the rulemaster of mafiascum ... ?

If you felt that I should have given the reasoning when I voted, then vote me for it if you'd like. It's how I'm playing this game, and if it's scummy enough to you to warrant a vote against me then do it .. I don't know what you want to hear, and I'm not about to try and change the story .. It's how I felt that day, blah blah blah.

Rulemaster of the game? So you're saying it makes sense to NOT give the reasoning behind your vote when you cast your vote. That makes a lot of sense.

QUESTION TO EVERYBODY IN THIS GAME-

Who agrees with Nanook in that it's a good idea to NOT state your reasoning behind your vote when you cast your vote, and then only give your reasoning once people ask of it?

[hewitt]

@hewitt - Nah, I'd like to know (whether simple or elaborate) reasons behind people's votes. It cuts down and lets me know who's not jump mindlessly hopping on bandwagons, and who actually has valid reasons for wanting to lynch another player.

Thank you, my thoughts exactly.

When you can name exactly what I said was an appeal to emotion, I will quit mafia.

and hoping that it will lead to a bandwagon against a townie

Hm...how about right there? This is how a town player would have said that line "and hoping that it will lead a bandwagon against me". But instead you used the word townie? That's one of those lines scum use when they're attempting to be sneaky and put a connection in others' minds linking you to the word townie. Simple psychology. And it's appeal to emotion because town wants to protect other town (obviously). You using the word townie is attempting to villainize me and make other people feel like I'm attacking you. Playing victim is appeal to emotion.

Did I ever say you were leading a bandwagon?

Uh...How about the same quote?

and hoping that it will lead to a bandwagon against a townie

Yeah, nice try bud. Everything you just said in your paragraph describes exactly what you're attempting to do

We are not doing the same thing, I am actually using quotes as evidence, such as when u falsely label me as appealing to emotion. You are making attacks without evidence. I am driving a bandwagon (against you), which is good for the town. You are simply attacking without ryhme or reason.

You're correct there. We aren't doing the same thing. You're throwing shit at me and missing pretty badly.

Hewitt, how exactly was Stevie appealing to emotion? Stevie, I don't think his claims are unsubstantiated. I think his case on Caboose actually has a lot of merit. On you however, not so much. Then again, it doesn't really seem like he was ever trying to go hard after you. Even though he mentioned you alongside Caboose in the whole Mastin 50/50 thing, he has been attacking Caboose hard, and defending himself against you, who THINKS he is attacking you baselessly. So in essence, I think both of you are misconstruing the situation.

For the appeal to emotion thing see above. I agree that my case on Caboose has a lot of merit lol. And I don't have a case on StevieT, or at least I didn't when we started this little argument. I wasn't going after him at all. I understand the situation, I just think a) StevieT's not really good at reading or b) overdefensive and kinda scummy.

Hewitt, can you explain why you think StevieT to be possible scum based on D1?

If I had to think of how StevieT is possible scum based on D1 I would point out quotes like this...

There is no such thing as 'fluff', which was my point. Any discussion gives more information. That's what we want, information. The more posts that go unwritten, the more potentially valuable information is missed.

I definitely disagree with this. Posts should obviously be constructive most of the time and not fluff. Fluff exists and it sucks, every once in a while it's okay but if there's a whole bunch of needless discussion going on then that's not discussion we need.

Which is information that I get more value out of at this point by it remaining private. I would rather disclose it at a proper time.

This whole "knowing what Mastin is" deal might've been more obnoxious than scummy I don't know, it was kind of shady nonetheless I feel.

Also, I don't really think that Caboose is scummy, he just seems like he is getting frustrated with Mastin. I think your efforts, Mastin, would be best concentrated elsewhere, like Dust for example.

I would just like to keep this fresh in my mind for if Caboose gets lynched and flips scum...because I don't see this point of view at all.

I will

unvote: Dust

because trying to drive a one-man wagon is unproductive and depressing.

I'm a pretty big believer that you vote for who you think is scum and this just doesn't sit right with me. I honestly don't care if it's a one-man wagon if that's who you're most confident is scum then fight for it (which he didn't do very well).

That's pretty much it from D1 if I were to make a case on StevieT based on it.

[hewitt]

I am so lost and behind right now. I need to find where I left off last week, which shouldn't be too hard, but there are tons of wall of texts that are scaring me from starting.

You lived through Mastin and you're calling out walls of texts now?

[hewitt]

I like how you say this, but until this point you had given 0 reasons as to why you called me scummy.

...We weren't talking about you.

I wasn't playing victim, I was describing your behavior. I'm not a victim at all nor do I feel threatened by your weak attacks, I'm simply pointing out your scummy behavior. Terrible, terrible analysis.

Incorrect. Not only are you playing the victim but you're playing the victim in attacks that you created yourself. Not attacks by myself but you created your own attacks on yourself.

You're completely misunderstanding and misrepresenting my argument. You're NOT leading a bandwagon. You are making baseless accusations and hoping it turns into a bandwagon, which is scummy behavior. Scum never lead bandwagons, as it leads to too much scrutiny.

Oh good so then you just cleared me as not being scum considering I'm attempting to lead a bandwagon. Thanks I guess.

It's not that I'm defensive, it's that I think I've spotted Hewitt in a scum tell. (Throwing sh** and hoping some sticks)

It's actually quite funny how you're defending yourself from yourself. I want you to go back and quote exactly how I "attacked" you and threw shit at you.

It's alright to drive a 1 man wagon at the beginning of the day. It's how you find scum, I totally agree. However, the only power the town has comes from getting numbers on wagons (of scum hopefully ). I have no problem with using my vote for the greater good, which may let the 1 person who I think is scum slip by. There is always the next day or I could even switch back if we get a reliable claim.

However, late in the day, driving a 1 man wagon is an irresponsible use of your vote. The town has usually reached some sort of consensus, and you need to get behind that.

So if the town has decided that a player you don't think is scum is scum you should vote for them?

Rather weak case to be saying that I look scummy based off D1, don't you think?

I've never made a case on you. Ryan asked me to make a case on you based on your D1 actions. Are you reading this thread? Or just making shit up as you go?

[hewitt]

Its related to the fact that I am unsure at this time.

Zerophear is definently anti-town but I don't think lynching is the best way to remove him, due to the risk that he is jester or whatever it's called here.

RedCoyote looks faintly town. Caboose looks neutral (I was thinking the same thing as him for lynching Mastin already to be honest), Hewitt appears strongly town, everyone else thats been voted for is either weak town or unsure.

So then who do you believe is most likely to be scum? Because somebody who looks faintly town or neutral or weak town does not necessarily mean you believe them to be most likely to be town/scum/whatever.

By the way I'll be V/LA until 7/3.

[hewitt]

Oh and while I'm gone can somebody please make sure Caboose's shit doesn't go flying under the radar?

[hewitt]

*salutes Hewitt*

I think he is jester due to the sheer daftness of everything he's said. It just doesnt add up.

I don't think he's a jester. If he was a jester he would be responding back to the attacks outrageously. And he's not even responding.

Empking I am talking about ZeroPhear.

RedCoyote is probably right, but we DID have a lyncher. Are those rare?

? I was also under the impression you were talking about Caboose. Zero I think there's a bigger possibility if him being a jester than Caboose.

[hewitt]

to clear it up: I think Zerophear is the potential Jester. I think Caboose is just plain scummy.

So if you had to cast a vote right now based on purely on who you think is the scummiest who would you vote for?

[hewitt]

ZeroPhear, but because I think he is potentially jester... yeah

*wishes he kept notes *

Well then that's not scum that's just like voting for Mastin...

which was obviously a HUGE mistake. I love how players got all huffy about Mastin being the center of conversation and stuff and today is completely dead. I think getting rid of Mastin could have killed us and I think scum knew this. Players like Caboose obviously used this to their advantage.

[hewitt]

OrangePenguin you're calling me anti-town as in scummy?

[hewitt]

OrangePenguin you're calling me anti-town as in scummy?

No, just anti-town. I don't know. I don't think you're scum, to be honest, although I think your intense tunneling is anti-town. I don't think scum would be as 'out there' as you have been. I also don't agree with your statement that Caboose hasn't done

anything

all game. He might be scummy, but he's done something, and that was lynching the lyncher.

Which did absolutely nothing to find scum. Lynching the lyncher did absolutely nothing to help us today and frankly most of the players on that wagon haven't done shit today. They whined and bitched and moaned about Mastin and now they're doing absolutely nothing to help us. Honestly, I'd be fine with lynching any of them (Caboose, zu_faul, King, AceMarksman, StevieT92, and Amished). I just think that Caboose is the worst out of those six.

[hewitt]

Would anybody disagree and say that these players (Caboose, zu_faul, King, AceMarksman, StevieT92, and Amished) were not scummy on D1 and continue to be scummy today?

[hewitt]

Mod-Edit Votecount 2-10

Zer0ph34r - 4

(Caboose, cateraction, King, RedCoyote)

RedCoyote - 3

(Phoebus, Zu_Faul, Zer0ph34r)

cateraction - 2

(Kise, orangepenguin)

hewitt - 2

(Empking's Alt, StevieT92)

Caboose - 1

(hewitt)

Zu_Faul - 1

(AceMarksman)

AceMarksman - 1

(NanooktheWolf)

NanooktheWolf - 1

(ryan2754)

Not Voting - 7

(Everyone else)

With 22 alive, it takes 12 to lynch.

Mass-Prod sent out. This does not count towards prod-replacement.

V/LA:
-Hewitt ('till 7/3)

---

Amished is inactive on a few of his other games too.

Caboose has gone inactive, but was fairly scummy when he was around.

not sure on the other four.

Who do you believe is the scummiest in this game right now, why, and why are you not voting for them and gunning for them at this moment?

[hewitt]

Devastation, call me thick, but I don't see you answering those four questions on the last page.

[hewitt]

Okaaay deadline in two days. Not good.

EVERYBODY

Same questions I asked Devastation...

Who do you think is the scummiest, why do you think they are the scummiest, why are you not voting for them if you're not, and why are you not building cases and helping the town at the moment?

That last question there are a few of you who are exempted (because you're actually trying to help) but the majority of you are not.

[hewitt]

Just because RedCoyote may not have seemed suspicious or scummy to you, doesn't mean he didn't look that way to me. He did, hence the vote.

Cateraction, that was without a doubt the most obvious post ever to make it seem like you did something. "I'm still voting Zero. I see him as the scummiest. " Was that even necessary? You might as well not have even posted. If you don't want to post, then just don't for now.

Man, I love being the center of attention.

If you're town, then you being the center of attention is not benefiting us very well. Can you answer my questions?

[hewitt]

Picking up the prod and hopefully killing Zero with it.

King you've posted twice in the last month. In my opinion you should get the hell out of this game considering you're doing absolutely nothing.

vote: AceMarks

I am quickly losing my patience with MANY players in this game. ZORASTER- If you're going to cast a vote, we need a reason why. How do you expect us to get anywhere beneficial today if you pull shit like this. It is extremely anti-town.

EVERYBODY

Same questions I asked Devastation...

Who do you think is the scummiest, why do you think they are the scummiest, why are you not voting for them if you're not, and why are you not building cases and helping the town at the moment?

Those are the questions I would like you to answer Zerophear.

StevieT92- An explanation as to why you believe Dust to be the scummiest would be really really beneficial right now. And slightly necessary.

I myself am going to

Unvote, Vote: AceMarksman

Last week he said he was going back through what he missed and has failed to update us since then. He's only spoken when addressed. Voted for zu_faul basically because zu_faul called him daft. Voted for Mastin on D1 based on statistisc and repeatedly called him scum when it was quite obvious Mastin was not scum. He was wishy-washy and pretty damn useless. Definitely useless today. I fully support an AceMarksman lynch.

[hewitt]

@hewitt - What the hell happened to the cat' wagon? Did Zero deter it? I think it's quite experimental to lynch King or Caboose, but I find them scummy for unproductive their tunneling.

I may have forgotten.. What are the cases against Red Coyote & Ace? (in a nutshell)

I don't know what anybody expects me to do with the cateraction wagon, I never supported it, I haven't seen a case on him that compels me yet so I'm indifferent to it. I'm focusing on players such as AceMarksman, Caboose, and zu_faul. My case on AceMarksman is on this page.

[hewitt]

Well there are a bunch of players who have shown opportunism in this game. So I'm not sure if that's the best reason to vote for cateraction. And on D1 I don't think it very likely that two scum would be buddying up with each other so I'm not sure how much merit the Tarhalindur/cateraction buddying has.

[hewitt]

Unvote

Vote: Zer0

You're absolutely useless if you don't give us any reasonings behind your voting.

[hewitt]

So Caboose and Jeromus basically have no excuse as to why they're not participating.

[hewitt]

Alright well what are we going to do about the deadline?

[hewitt]

Well I know there's some talk about a cateraction or zerophear wagon but I'm probably not going to support a wagon on either one of them.

[hewitt]

Hmmm so players like Caboose are making a concious decision not to post? Wow...

[hewitt]

Epic fail.

Unvote, Vote: Caboose

For the exact same reasons I've always had. AND, on top of that, picking up prods and making the decision to not respond to the accusations and thoughts against him and not contributing anything in this game. I hate floater scum.

[hewitt]

If the votes were swinging Jeromus' way I would vote Jeromus. But right now I'm going to vote for who I believe to be the scummier of the two.

[hewitt]

Ugh so Caboose is being replaced? ryan the thing is that no one else is presenting really competent arguments for others to be lynched in my opinion. I mean come the hell on. Look who you've got on the Zerophear wagon! Caboose? King? Empking? cateraction? Clearly not players I want to be following.

[hewitt]

Mod-Edit Votecount 2-12

Zer0ph34r - 8

(Caboose, cateraction, King, RedCoyote, ryan2754, Devestation, Empking's Alt, orangepenguin)

RedCoyote - 3

(Phoebus, Zu_Faul, Zer0ph34r)

AceMarksman - 3

(NanooktheWolf, zoraster)

cateraction - 1

(Kise)

Zu_Faul - 1

(AceMarksman)

jeromus - 1

(StevieT92)

Caboose - 1

(hewitt)

Not Voting - 5

(Azhrei, Maturin24, jeromus, Amished, White Castle)

With 22 alive, it takes 12 to lynch.

To Be Replaced:
-Maturin24
-Azhrei
-Caboose
-NanooktheWolf (?)

---

Oh no. I'm not deadset against it. If they're at L-1 and nobody else is hammering before deadline I will hammer. I just don't think they're as worthy as the lynches I proposed.

[hewitt]

But that's obviously not where I wish the votes were right now. Really though any comment on the players on the zerophear lynch? Half of them are pretty pathetic.

[hewitt]

Kise do you think Amished is the scummiest in the game?

[hewitt]

Truthfully I reverted back to Caboose because the deadline was so close and I didn't think there was going to be enough support on an AceMarksmen wagon with one day left for everybody to come back and help out. I'm perfectly fine/happy with an AceMarksemn lynch though.

[hewitt]

Despite me being town, you should lynch me, because I'm not going to continue to do anything if you're all going to continue to put words in my mouth and vote based on retarded things. Mafia, you get a free pass.

Half the people on your wagon are idiots anyway so why are you so concerned about it? Empking just senselessly voted for me but I'm not crying about it. You're still in the game, get over it or leave.

Devestation don't even bother. Empking isn't going to add anything useful to this game (obviously).

[hewitt]

i'm not concerned from the vote, but that statement makes me concerned. 8 people currently are voting for me, meaning 8 people, who are still in the game are fools, i'd say 2 of them are scum. besides, ain't much for me to say right now anyway. at the very least, it will stir up some conversation

Not all eight are fools in my opinion. I said half and I actually should have said three, Caboose, King, and Empking. The rest are at least halfway decent in my opinion.

[hewitt]

Who am I defending Empking?

[hewitt]

I'd totally approve of an AceMarksmen lynch for my reasons previously stated AND the logical reasonings above.

Unvote, Vote: AceMarksmen

And RedCoyote I'm not looking for superstar players, I'm looking for scummy players. That's why my vote was on Caboose.

[hewitt]

So that looks like we've got seven votes on AceMarksmen. To everybody who's not currently voting him is there a reason why the cases against him are not valid?

[hewitt]

I'm really not comfortable with this. Not so much because I think Ace is extremely town sounding, but I'd really prefer to hear more from him.

And I've heard enough from Zer0, who has already claimed.

unvote; vote: AceMarksman

It looks like we have about 5 hours if the Mod's post is accurate.

Wait, didn't White Castle just say that we were at L-1 and that he should've claimed first?

[hewitt]

I would just like to point out that the only person StevieT92 ever defended (and on more than one occasion) was Caboose. You guys know I'm not letting this Caboose thing go lol.

On the other hand I feel more comfortable with an AceMarksmen lynch than a ZeroPhear lynch. I think the ZeroPhear lynch is a little bit opportunistic in the way that the Mastin lynch was and I still 100% agree with the case on AceMarksmen so...

Vote: AceMarksmen

[hewitt]

cateraction that's not good enough. That's a pretty shitty case if that's all you got to say.

Unvote, Vote: cateraction

for being 100% completely opportunistic scum right here. Pretty ridiculous.

[hewitt]

I would advise a wagon on AceMarksmen before a wagon on ZeroPhear. Let's think about the Mastin lynch for a second...really nothing came out of it that was all that good. We were left with a D2 that started horribly with barely half the players actively participating and ended with a no lynch on a really good suspect. ZeroPhear is a good lynch don't get me wrong. I just think that we need to start focusing on lynching the ones who are the BEST lynch possible, not the most opportunistic and easiest.

[hewitt]

No, you're scummy for voting without giving a good reason and being opportunistic throughout this entire game.

[hewitt]

Honestly I still would hold strongest on the AceMarksmen lynch but cateraction is looking to be a better lynch by the post. It is inappropriate at this stage in the game to be voting for players based on shitty ass cases or (like in this case) without giving reasoning at all! Like what the f is that supposed to do to help us? That is the reason why we couldn't find a better lynch than Mastin and that is why we couldn't finish off the AceMarksmen wagon yesterday. Because of players like cateraction.

[hewitt]

Huh? That seems like a valid reason to me, and cater isn't running from any wagon.

Why is Zer0 excused from allowing a no lynch to go through yesterday?

So if the normal tells don't work on you, then what should we consider scummy from you?

Vote: Zero

I am not opposed to an Ace lynch, and it's a lot better than a no lynch.

Unvote; Vote: Ace

Yep, for all the reasons yesterday, and then that.

Vote: Zero

First of all let me just applaud your scumhunting abilities on your last three votes (in chronological order). Wow, good effing cases right there...

cateraction you pushed SO hard for an OrangePenguin case on D1 in which you didn't even lay a vote on him? Yeah...that makes a lot of sense. Red Coyote I'm not quite sure how you can look at these posts and say oh yeah cateraction you've done some great hunting right there, good valid reasons! Because I look at these past three votes as a red flag.

Opportunistic scum at this stage in the game do not start wagons either, they hop on without giving very good or original reasoning.

First quote- 4th on the wagon (Two out of the three in front of him were Caboose and StevieT92...).

Second quote- 6th on the wagon.

Third quote- 5th on the wagon.

I honestly want to hear why Zer0 causing a no lynch yesterday is a "shitty ass case". I agree cater could spend a little more time with the game, but I think his opinion is valid.

I should add that I don't think Ace is necessarily a bad lynch, as a matter of fact I think he's quite a good player to go after again.

Uh ZeroPhear didn't cause a no lynch yesterday. There was obviously a majority of other players who did not vote from AceMarksmen too. That is all of their fault not just ZeroPhear. And you agree with cateraction that he's given sufficient reasons for his votes? Mmmmm going to have to disagree on that one. And I think that AceMarksmen is a good lynch but now I'm a lot more torn between a wagon on him and a wagon on cateraction.

When else have I been opportunistic? Do you disagree with me that not voting and contributing to the no-lynch is very scummy?

Oh really? Because he didn't vote and contributed to the no-lynch is your reason now? FYI- ZeroPhear was not the sole reason we didn't get a lynch. Every single player who didn't vote you should now be calling out as scummy.

Because of players like me? I pressed hard for an OP lynch on Day 1 and was strongly against the lynch of Mastin. I voted for Ace yesterday and am voting Zer0 because he didn't help us get a lynch, how the heck are you suggesting that it's my fault we don't have good lynches?

*Applauds again* Oh yeah that OrangePenguin was a GREAT wagon was a great one considering you didn't even vote him.

[hewitt]

Just to explain how cateraction didn't vote for OrangePenguin in case anybody's confused on that...

Here's post 1 of his game.

I was had fun reading Mastin's stuff. Keep him around, it makes things interesting.


I think it was pretty lame what Nanook was doing there. Too wifom for my tastes. Obviously we're not going to get a good read on Mastin from what he's posted, that's the point of his playstyle.

Vote: Nanook

And here's post 2.

Post 88, Ace: I really don't like this idea that those who get annoyed with Mastin are scum. I agree with Caboose calling him out.

I don't agree with Mastin's points on Caboose. It's so minimal and yet Mastin is so adamant. I really don't like that style of scumhunting. It's so unproductive. Questions are how things get done. It seems to me that Mastin just puts whoever he happens to be talking to at the top of his list of "confirmed scum".

I don't like Stevie keeping his positions to himself in post 127. Kudo's to zorastor for pointing that out. Mastin assumes that this means that Stevie think's he's town, but with the possibility of multiple teams, I don't think that it's that cut and dry. Any withholding of information is anti-town.

Mastin, post 136: Mislabeling what you think is a scumtell is not scummy. It just means Caboose didn't know the correct name, but he explained what he thought the tell was.

Zorastor gets town points in my mine for post 148.

Mastin's accusation to Dust of lurking and then coming back when mentioned is bullshit. Although I do agree that his FOS of Amished was a bit strange. Votes are just pressure points that early in the game, no need to use FOS.

I really don't like OP voting for Mastin, I think he was trying to play off the town's annoyance of Mastin to slip a vote on the wagon. His reasons aren't very good, and it feels like he's backpeddaling on 163 by saying he's "no mastin expert" and then quickly making a joke in 165.

I really don't like Mastin's soft claim (sorry if I'm using the wrong term, I mean that he said, I am pro-town). Overall, Mastin annoys me. He's arrogant, blows small null tells out of proportions, is incredibly adamant over those "tells". It's annoying that you continually post how sure you are about your scum suspects, and adding scum to their name is very annoying. Stop doing these things. Please. Let your points speak for themselves.

Vote: OP
FoS: Ace
FoS: Stevie
FoS: Mastin

I like Zorastor and Caboose for town.

Nice unvote. That last line also intrigues me a bit. If we lynch cateraction and he flips scum can we finally lynch Caboose's ass? Just saying...

[hewitt]

Shouldn't have. Technically you didn't vote OrangePenguin, that's a pretty big mistake for someone who was SO into his case. And who says they were the only two people around at deadline who didn't vote? Any player is held accountable because we don't know who's online and who's not. And Empking's dead FYI so no idea what you're talking about there?

Nice job ignoring how you don't build cases before voting too.

[hewitt]

Just for the record Phoebus, Zerophear, Caboose, Azheri, Maturin24, jeromus, White Castle, and Kise all did not vote for AceMarksmen. So it's not one of two cateraction it's one of eight.

[hewitt]

It's not dodging the question RedCoyote. It's pointing out that the case on ZeroPhear is too opportunistic for today. It's D3, we should be voting players who are most likely to be scum and you guys are voting off D1 worst playstyle basis. cateraction didn't have flawed reasons he just had sucky reasons. If that's all he can come up with to vote for someone today then he's in deep shit. I find it easiest to weed out of the most opportunistic and lynch them because, guess what, they're likely to pop up scum.

Voting for ZeroPhear because he "stopped" the AceMarksmen lynch is a sucky reason. It's basically OMGUS. It's like Oh My God you're not agreeing with the minority of the town You Suck I'm going to vote you. If you're going to start a bandwagon on anybody for that you should be voting for Kise because he clearly seems like the most logical out of all the players who didn't.

[hewitt]

Oh I know. I'm just saying it'd make more sense to vote for a more logical player who'd be smart enough to try and derail the AceMarksmen lynch than somebody like ZeroPhear who can barely string a case together let alone derail anything.

[hewitt]

Pie E7 is my most recently completed town game and Open 122 is my most recently completed scum game I believe.

[hewitt]

Pie E7- (Open 129): Game Over before 762 is the game in which I am town. Open 122 - Near Vanilla (Game Over) is the game in which I am scum.

I don't post links for the same reason I don't open links in these games, security reasons.

[hewitt]

ZeroPhear it's a commonly known scum tactic to post that you're happy to have scum dead in order to make yourself look like town. Not that difficult to understand.

[hewitt]

cateraction do you disagree with the accusation that you're opportunistic and simply jumping on the easiest lynch today?

[hewitt]

Why were you so afraid of a no-lynch? Do you think AceMarksmen is scum or not?

[hewitt]

@Hewitt: I do see Ace as scummy, but not as scummy as Zer0. Hence my vote.

Okay that's acceptable.

I'm not someone who lies regardless of alignment. I agree that I appeared opportunistic on day 2, but I think that Hewitt trying to paint me as consistently opportunistic is wrong. I was very strongly against OP on day 1 in the face of a very easy Mastin vote and today I have posted my reasons for voting Zer0. If you're voting me for day 2 then I don't think anything I say is going to dissuade you, but if you're buying Hewitt's bullshit about me not unvoting and all that, take a look back at the posts.

Uh- hold on here. You didn't unvote so yeah they can go take a look back at the posts. Maybe you should too.

White Castle- My meta generally isn't consistent throughout although at certain times I play the same as both town and scum. Call it the evolution of my game if you will.

[hewitt]

Yeah okay so my thing with ZeroPhear is his play is poor. I can't decide if it's ultimately scummy though.

[hewitt]

Well Kise maybe if you were actively participating instead of acting like an ass and doing absolutely nothing to contribute to the game this day would have gone by faster now. What's your excuse for doing absolutely nothing? I mean at least we know ZeroPhear sucks. What's wrong with you?

Unvote

[hewitt]

Oh don't even give me that if you had time to cast a vote you had time to at least give a substantial reason as to why and you couldn't even do that.

[hewitt]

Yeah, over a month ago. Do you honestly believe we're playing with players who are smart enough to keep referring back to that?

[hewitt]

Yes actually. Because it's the only damn way I'm getting people to participate in this game.

[hewitt]

orangepenguin- Do you honestly think ZeroPhear is more likely to flip scum than King

[hewitt]

Of course it is a likely story. In a game this large, there is bound to be plenty of people without interesting roles. I just happen to be one of them. I obviously can't prove this but who can really prove anything. Trust me or don't.

King we don't have any reason to trut you because you don't do shit in this game. That was a pretty stupid statement.

And Zazier I still stand with that statement obviously. Not going to retract it just becuase you're in the game now.

[hewitt]

Zazier I'm not going to get in an argument about your and Mastin's likeness cause that's just not helpful to the game. I'm awaiting your opinions of like everything that's happened so far this game.

[hewitt]

Okay that's great and all but honestly the thing that reminds me of you being like Mastin is that you both fluff post a lot and you've done a great job of proving me right so far. I might retract it once you start doing something. But by all means read at your own pace.

[hewitt]

You should also know that I post less fluff when I'm scumhunting. Which I can't do yet when I haven't fully read yet. But my first analysis will be posted when I've reached the end of day 1.

I obviously wasn't referring to this game when I made the comment considering you weren't in it.

I'm going to put my vote on cateraction for the same reasons as before. I had unvoted to gear up an attack on Kise but he answered appropriately so I decided to drop it.

Vote: cateraction

[hewitt]

My mistake, I should have used the word adequately. And no you have not responded adequatel enough to explain yourself. You most definitely are opportunistic and have done nothing to dissuade that.

[hewitt]

Javert what are your thoughts on your predecessor Caboose?

[hewitt]

I was just wondering considering Caboose's playstyle was very similar to Nanook's and in my opinion scummier.

[hewitt]

That is a very good point on Nanook. I would agree that is really scummy, it was because of players like Nanook that we couldn't get anything done on D1.

[hewitt]

I'm actually going to agree with White Castle on this one. Kmd this game is confusing enough as it is. If we have a player who isn't caught up on everything that's happened then get the hell out you shouldn't have replaced in the first place. Who cares if Xyl does this and is a "good" player in your opinion. You're not them, they might just be a good player because they pick up on things. If you're town and you're not going to try then get out of here. Go commit to one of your hundreds of other games.

[hewitt]

As long as you are contributing to the game I can't complain then. What're your initial thoughts on your fellow replacement Javert?

[hewitt]

King that's not the point of the game. You don't just answer questions that are asked of you and talk about points that other people bring up. It's really scummy that you're not formulating your own opinions about other players and providing cases for the rest of us to analyze and dissect. You're not being helpful to the town. You're not playing as a town player.

[hewitt]

I'm going to call bullshit on the scum not wanting to be on the Mastin lynch. Do you honestly think all those opportunistic voters were all town? I doubt that very much.

[hewitt]

Okay seriously can you guys quit talking about games that aren't relevant? Nobody cares about your past games and stats and all that crap. We're honestly just worried about this game.

[hewitt]

Zazier- Remember I was posting my thoughts as I was reading them so I would read a page then post my thoughts on that page then move on to the next one. I called Dev's claim bullshit three or four pages before I was finished and by that time I figured he was telling the truth or at least something close to it. So I went with who I thought (at the time) the safest bet to catch scum would be, which was orangepenguin.

[hewitt]

unvote, vote: cateraction

Just looking at the Zero wagon, with people like cater himself and King on it, makes me not so happy with being on the wagon as well. Cater is just as scummy, if not more, so yeah.

Your just mad at me for making a case against you day 1.

Are you honestly that thick cateraction? What an idiotic thing to say and quite the poor response.

[hewitt]

He hasn't added anything to the case against and kept calling me scum all day 1 just because I was pushing for his lynch. As soon as I stopped pushing, he stopped calling me scum. Till this new interest developed, I'd say it's a 50-50 shot that he believes the case vs being mad at me.

I stopped pushing because after seeing that everyone on his wagon was scum besides me, I decided I must have been mistaken and his play was just poor. Zer0 is scummier in my book.

Um from my perspective he is not calling you scum because you were pushing for his lynch. He's calling you scum for very valid reasons and so is everybody else on your case. You totally just discredited everything you've done with that little appeal to emotion "well it's just cause he's mad at me" five year old shit. And quite frankly, you haven't done anything in the first place so how about you quit whining and actually contribute to the game.

[hewitt]

You didn't discredit what he said cateraction, you just made yourself look like a fool. Don't tell me to go read the posts because I read them quite clearly which is why I don't understand how you could even try to twist this around.

[hewitt]

I'm being civil, I just wanted to see your reaction from my pressure and let's just say you didn't pass with flying colors.

[hewitt]

I guess the only thing I have to say to that is that it's pretty obvious I haven't tunneled on the same player the whole game.

[hewitt]

There isn't reasons as to why AceMarksmen shouldn't be lynced, he's my number one priority after cateraction. The only reason why AceMarksmen shouldn't be lynched today is because I believe cateraction is scummier and has the leading wagon. If the votes were reversed and AceMarksmen was the leading wagon I would be on his wagon because these are the only two I feel 100% comfortable lynching. We don't have much time left though.

[hewitt]

Alright well I was down with an AceMarksmen lynch yesterday and I don't have a problem lynching somebody who isn't defending themselves because he did get a chance to defend himself yesterday and it was done very poorly.

Unvote, Vote: AceMarksmen

[hewitt]

I think every player who voted AceMarksmen yesterday should be voting him again today and now WhiteCastle and ZeroPhear don't have an excuse not to vote him.

[hewitt]

Alright so I don't think there's any reason why the players who voted AceMarksmen yesterday don't have the reasons to vote for him again today. With RedCoyote, Zazer, Javert, myself, and Kmd4390 on the wagon and we're playing wth "15 alive 8 to lynch" then cateraction, orangepenguin, ryan2754, and King should theoretically have no problems with lynching AceMarksmen.

[hewitt]

ZeroPhear...since you're not doing anything helpful...why would you not vote AceMarksmen? What's your reasoning for thinking he's town?

[hewitt]

Wow Javert, that is so fucking annoying. Holding off this lynch which has been two days in the making just so you can write up a case on RedCoyote which would be much more helpful tomorrow anyway because it'll be fresh on everybody's minds. Basically, the day is going to end (the deadline's coming up soon), and you're going to make some case that is going to go NOWHERE today. So why are you not holding off until tomorrow and spare the rest of us here? And why did you vote for him in the first place if you didn't vote with the intent to lynch?

cateraction- Please vote and put him at L-1

Javert- You're retaining some of the scumminess you're predecessor had but in a much different way.

[hewitt]

Hewitt, although I can understand why you might think it is

annoying

, what exactly is

scummy

about removing my vote in order to make a case before nightfall? I tend to think it would be much easier for scum to just vote, let a lynch take care of itself, and post again tomorrow.

Why haven't you done it by now is the point! Instead of posting this nonsense you should be posting your case. I don't understand what you're waiting for...

Shrinehme- Read me in iso before you accuse me of contradicting myself.

[hewitt]

Shrinehme- I initially voted cateraction to put pressure on him for voting ZeroPhear without giving good reasoning and being opportunistic. After he failed to defend himself adequately I read him in ISO and saw how opportunistic he was being the whole game.

[hewitt]

Unvote, Vote: Javert

Alright so I think this has been way too long in the making but now with a replacement who actually posts quite a bit more I feel confident in this decision.

Caboose/Javert

Caboose Day 1- Votes Mastin right off the bat and begins defending his vote as completely serious and that he fully believes Mastin is scum right off the bat. He admits that it’s not a strong reason but contradicts himself by first saying that it’s completely season and then that it’s just a reason strong enough to pursue a case in his 7th post of the game. He continues his assault on Mastin after it is revealed that Mastin is the lyncher even though his whole case was built on Mastin being scum and then goes back on it and decides that Mastin is most likely a serial killer and then goes back on that again deciding suddenly that Mastin is telling the truth about being a lyncher and just lying about his lynchee. Not only tunnels exclusively on Mastin but doesn’t even try to scumhunt in any other sense. Calls me scum because I’m against the Mastin wagon and not anybody is and if he truly believed I was scum he should’ve made a case on me but nope, sticking with the non-scumhunting strategy. Won’t respond to my attacks adequately and insists on being close-minded. Tells us that Azhrei is scum and that he will be getting his vote the following day without giving reasons as to why or how he’s come to this conclusion then finishes off the day complaining how long it’s taken to lynch Mastin. And that’s just Day 1.

Caboose Day 2- Starts off voting ZeroPhear for, I’m assuming because he never expounded upon it that much, his supposed “scum gloating”. Which is funny because he told us he was going to vote Azhrei for being scum… Calls me out for WIFOM, I prove that he’s wrong, and he ignores that and talks nonsense about something else. Accuses me of building my case on for him being a lurker and lynching Mastin when my cases were clearly not based on those two reasonings, nice twisting of words. Then he drops of the face of the game.

Javert Day 3- Replaces in for Caboose. Pretty funny, first thing he points out is that he doesn’t like the attacks on myself and Azhrei, the two of the players Caboose burned. Votes zoraster and states that he’ll explain the case on him later. Chides Kmd for not explaining his case on Amished. Suspects Nanook (who played similarly to Caboose) and then finally gives us a little bit of insight on why he suspects zoraster, saying that zoraster spent all of D1 arguing to lynch Mastin and then drops off quite a bit of posting. Which could describe a number of players in the game. Not a very good case at all going off all the information in the game. Defends Caboose’s play then unvotes zoraster. Votes RedCoyote and shares that he won’t be able to present a “full-fledged” case on him because his scumtells are so subtle. Then unvotes RedCoyote because part of his reasoning is that “players may have been protecting him as a scum-partner” and that he should target them.

But apparently that was bullshit because he then votes AceMarksmen because he feels compelled to vote for one of the three wagons and instead of listing why he thinks AceMarksmen is scum he lists why he doesn’t think cateraction or ZeroPhear is scum. Process of elimination is fine as long as you’re eliminating ALL the players in the game, not just the three wagons. Why didn’t you go after those players you thought were protecting RedCoyote? Unvotes because he objects to the hammer in his next post. Explains that he unvoted to give his case on RedCoyote (wait didn’t he state earlier that he couldn’t present a “full-fledged case”?) and that he must present it today in case he dies overnight. Funny, shouldn’t this case have been presented when he first voted RedCoyote? I work four jobs as a coach, working at science museum, giving private lessons, and writing scripts for a production company along with going to school. Shut the f up on time, if you have the time to vote, you have the time to present a case because a vote means you’ve read and created a case in your mind on a player.

Oh but wait, you point out reasons why RedCoyote is scum and basically…they don’t mean anything to me at all. I don’t think they’re good reasons at all. You’re going to have to come up with a better case than that, and it’s all pretty much based on well, this doesn’t sit right with me. Back to Javert’s game. He asks Shrinehme to claim?!?! After derailing the wagon on AceMarksmen he asks Shrinehme to claim? What the hell is with that?

Those are my thoughts on Caboose/Javert. What are everybody’s thoughts on what I’ve posted?

[hewitt]

Whoa hold on before I answer any of those questions. How is Shrinehme caught scum?

[hewitt]

That's it? That's all you have to say, look over his posts? That's pretty pathetic.

[hewitt]

Really? Then why have no other town players already pointed it out saying oh good catch Zazier!

[hewitt]

Because you have a hard time believing that a vig can chose their own flavor?

[hewitt]

Zazier I think you're playing pretty stupidly right now by lumping OrangePenguin and myself up with Shrinehme for something that you, quite frankly, have no idea what you're talking about. You're trying to outguess the mod here and that's never a good idea. You have no idea what Jebus has decided to do with the flavor so don't pretend like you do unless you're the same role that Shrinehme is and you know that he's lying about it because you don't have flavor. That's the only possible way that he would be "caught" scum.

[hewitt]

To elaborate I think Zazier is playing emotionally and not intellectually. She's calling me caught scum for not agreeing with her when a. it's a scumtell to call people scum for disagreeing with them and b. that and the fact that I compared her to Mastin (which I still hold to) makes her a little peeved with me to begin with. What I want her to do is build a case on me being scum, because now that she's said it she better back it up, based on my relationship with AceMarksmen/Shrinehme. Explain how I'm on a scumteam with AceMarksmen/Shrinehme Zazier, otherwise your words, accusations, and credibility mean shit.

[hewitt]

I'm not voting Shrinehme because he's a new replacement and I don't think it's credible to lynch a new player so soon after they've replaced in. I also don't think he's had enough time to explain the flavor. AceMarksmen was scummy as hell but with a new player coming in it makes a big difference. So while Shrinehme is explaining himself I decided to put a lot of pressure on a player who's predecessor I found extremely scummy and who's had enough time to make an impact on the game. I found him to be a little on the iffy side so I wanted to put pressure on him. I'd always wanted to put pressure on Caboose to see how he'd react but it'd always be thwarted by shifts in the game and other players. Of course, I've once again been stalled in my efforts to put pressure on Caboose/Javert and now he's being allowed to slide under the radar again.

[hewitt]

Oh and mod you have me voting Shrinehme still and that would be false, I unvoted then voted Javert on page 71.

Bold next time so I don't nearly miss it (this, not the vote), and fixed, thanks :3

[hewitt]

Since when is OMGUS not a scumtell? Because I was always under the impression that is was. If Player A calls Player B scum because Player B disagrees with them, that's definitely a scumtell. It's scum going on the attack because they're being opposed.

[hewitt]

Lowell if you're not going to be on and posting substance until Sunday get out now. Does this game honestly look like it needs a player who won't be contributing to the town for six effing days?

[hewitt]

was your assertion that Tarhalindur was the only player in the game to call Caboose town (which is actually false: cateraction also said he “liked Caboose for town” in Post 199; if there were other posts I don’t recall them).

I was actually the one to point out cateraction said that thanks.

4

Would you mind pointing out what other players in the game spent all of Day One arguing to lynch Mastin, dropped off in posting, and still purport to be playing the game? Despite what you say, nobody has really played the game like zoraster has – (i) zoraster was an abundant poster for all of Day One, and once he got his lynch on Mastin, he drastically and inexplicably dropped off in posting while still saying he is playing the game, and (ii) in order to get his lynch, I think he resorted to a little fearmongering (I believe somebody else called it “pandering to fear”). That said, my Post 1628 explains my thoughts on zoraster after rereading him in isolation.

It is true that zoraster did have probably one of the highest percentage of drop offs in posting but does that really make everyone else who dropped off in posting less scummy?

6

This is just false. I voted for AceMarksman over RedCoyote because the mod announced we had a deadline in four days, not because I was making up “bullshit.” And yes, I used the “lesser evil” test because of the three people I thought had a chance of being lynched, the one I thought was most likely to be scum was AceMarksman. I didn’t eliminate “ALL” the players in the game because not all the players in the game were really likely to be lynched.

But why would you vote AceMarksmen with the intent that he's most likely to be lynched if you were going to derail the wagon anyway by unvoting? That just doesn't make any sense to me.

So if I understand correctly, you aren't voting him, because he just got into the game? And because he hasn't had enough time to explain the flavour according to you?
First reason isn't a valid reason to keep somebody alive. The second is strange as reason as you aren't asking him anything about it.
And Caboose did respond to your 'pressure' vote. He choose to ignore it. I'm looking forward to hear what this and what Javert's reaction towards it will tell you about this playerslot.

Correct and incorrect. You're correct that I unvoted because he just entered the game. It's not just because he hasn't had enough time to explain the flavor though. If somebody is just entering the game as scum and they're already being attacked they're going to be in a heightened state of defense from the get go. It's much hard to get a slip up if you're scum and on the defense right when you replace in than if you have a little bit of time to relax and comment on other things that have been happening during the game. That's why I find it a little unlikely that he's just making this flavor thing up because he's already on the defensive and it wouldn't make much sense to lie about something so offbeat.

Javert's reaction was good he made a lot of sense in his defense. I honestly was just looking for a back-up to put pressure on considering I'm waiting for Shrinehme to have a little bit more time to comment on everything in this game before going on the offensive. I think it's good to spread pressure on a lot players, it keeps everyone on their toes and engaged in conversation so my attack on Javert was a simple little sidetrack while waiting for Shrinehme to get acclimated to the game.

Although I think Javert has made some questionable moves in regards to Shrine, I still largely think the position you have against him/Caboose is just not as pressing at the moment. I think Zaz caught Shrine on very shakey ground, I think Zer0 is still more scummy than anyone else gives him credit for, and I think WC has effectively lurked his way out of the serious D2 NL allegations. I think you have the makings of something bigger, but where is the silver bullet? What has Javert/Caboose done that is really as damning as Zer0 or Shrine?

ZeroPhear to me is an annoyance of zwet purpotions. Does that make him scum? I have no idea, I'm inclined to believe that he's not though. I agree that White Castle has slid by pretty nicely and that's a little disturbing. Shrinehme, I just don't know if he's done anything damning. I don't know if he's making it up or not and if he's making it up then his ass should be lynched but I can't decide.

A friendly reminder to not try to outguess the mod, if it's not in the rules, it probably should be.

That...is unsettling.

OMGUS

Unvote
Vote: The Fonz
Unvote
Vote: Zero

What the hell are you doing? Have you done anything to help the town at all?

[hewitt]

What the hell are you doing? Have you done anything to help the town at all?

Guys, whats with the coaching?

FoS: KMD, Hewitt

Uh that's not coaching. That's asking King what he's doing to help the town. I'm waiting for him to even dare answer that he's been contributing somehow. Then I'm going to attack him for lying.

I think it's good to criticize players who haven't been contributing much not because it's coaching or whatever but because otherwise the game dies down, players fly under the radar, and fewer opinion are given.

As for Kise coaching me you should see my response to him (which you probably did and conveniently ignored I'm sure).

[hewitt]

King it is not good enough to be just a townie staying alive in the game and placing your vote where you deem it worthy. That is not your only responsibility as town you should be actively contributing and building cases on people you see as scum. And if you don't see anybody as scum then you need to be scumhunting and trying harder because you aren't doing shit and you do not look like a townie to me.

[hewitt]

Mod Edit Votecount 3-22

Shrinehme - 7

(ZazieR, Zer0ph34r, Battle Mage, orangepenguin, RedCoyote, cateraction, ryan2754)

cateraction - 3

(Kise, Amished, kmd4390)

Zer0ph34r - 2

(King, Shrinehme)

kmd4390 - 1

(White Castle)

Javert - 1

(hewitt)

RedCoyote -

(Javert)

King - 1

(The Fonz)

Not Voting - 2

(Lowell, zoraster)

With 18 alive, it takes 10 to lynch.

---

Alright well here's my take on the Shrinehme situation right now. AceMarksmen played like scum for all the reasons I initially voted for him, the reasons I had when I revoted him today and I would have no problem lynching AceMarksmen. Shrinehme has been in the game a week and has enough time to defend himself. And frankly, has not done a really good job defending himself EXCEPT, for the big if on the flavor call. After a while though that kind of got old and since I don't have any flavor in my role PM and neither does anybody else it seemed to be kind of a done deal until Jebus popped in with that odd quote about not outguessing the mod. I don't understand why he would pop in and say that for no reason.

It doesn't have much bearing on the game at all - I popped in because there seemed to be a lot of trying to outguess the mod going on, which bugs me, so I made note of it.

I'm also hesitant to trust Battle Mage, The Fonz, and Zazier's observations. It might just be because they were outsiders coming in so they have a way different perspective of the game but I don't agree with a lot of their suspicions and/or players who they think are pro-town. Kind of throwing me through a loop here it's weird.

Until then though,

Unvote, Vote: Shrinehme

I don't really trust the whole Zazier flavor caught scum thing really but there's been more than enough damning evidence on AceMarksmen and Shrinehme does not look much better to me.

[hewitt]

Aight Jebus thanks for the clarification. You got to admit it did kind of look like a warning.

[hewitt]

In this context, what do you mean with the bolded?

A lot of your guys' observations I've had issues just because I don't think they're right. So I'm hesitant to trust your judgment.

Aight Jebus thanks for the clarification. You got to admit it did kind of look like a warning.

what did you think the Mod's warning meant?

BM

It looked to me like when when you're playing partner Spades and you start to lay down a card and your partner's eyes go all big like "oh no don't put down that card, just trust me don't put down that card" and then it turns out they have trump and win the hand. It's like one of those I have inside info you d

Kise coaching you? Explain.

Hewitt, you should consider the fact that your aggressiveness might put a bullseye on your back during NP. Sometimes it's best to lay low, especially when you're fighting against all the odds.

This definitely looks like coaching, since town ought not to be afraid of dying at night, indeed should seek it.

If you dont trust Zazie, on the flavour thing, why are you voting Shrine exactly? Furthermore, WHY would you not trust Zazie on that?

First off you're wording this a little differently than I think you should be wording this. The correct wording would be why don't you trust that Zazier is correct. It's not that I don't trust Zazier, I don't trust anybody. I just don't trust that Zazier knows exactly what he's talking about.

And you have to remember, and this is kind of why I'm iffy on the replacements, I'm not just voting Shrinehme. I'm voting AceMarksmen/Shrinehme. If you want to see my reasons for voting AceMarksmen/Shrinehme then go reread either the game or me in ISO or whatever you want.

That seems very pre-meditated. Why bother going through the motions? Just trying to look like you're doing something?

Your posts seemed way off. Why would you seriously be so angry about him, when there are half a dozen people who are far worse? And your entire post assumes that he is town

It's not just going through the motions, it's showing evidence to the rest of the town why I feel the way I feel and getting concrete evidence supporting it (which was obviously ruined by players chiming in before he got the chance to answer, LOVE that). I'm angry at any player who isn't actively contributing to the game. There is much evidence of me showing that in all of my recent games. Town/scum/other I don't care, play the damn game if you're going to be in it or else get the f out in my opinion. And I singled him out because he was there, he posted so I knew he was recently active and I was hoping I would get a response out of him

Wanna elaborate with specific suspicions you don't agree with? Other than Shrine ofc.

Two scum caught.

If you're going to claim it, back it up. Otherwise your words mean nothing. I don't care if you "take it back" that means you give yourself the opportunity to "take" back anything you've said in this game.

Hewitt, I took those words back after OP''s statement. Please pay attention.

And I actually couldn't find where you did this anyway so please go find it and quote it because I looked at you in ISO and I don't see this anywhere.

The repeated statement that Shrinehme is "caught scum" is obnoxious and not true at all. I know you wanted other examples than Shrinehme but that's pretty much all they've been talking about so I'm going to include him anyway.

Lol, OMGUS is not a scumtell. It's a natural reaction by players, regardless of affiliation. Of course, really experienced players tend to be less OMGUSy as town, so it might apply there. But nobody here meets that condition, as far as i can see.

Disagree that OMGUS is not a scumtell, I don't think it's natural at all and most of the time forced and exagerrated.

There''s no flavour in the role PM''s!

-_-
Okay, let's assume that, for argument's sake, that is no flavor in any of the role PMs,

like you magically seem to know

[and judging from my own role PM, as well as the few responses to your attack on me, I think it's safe to say that you're wrong].

If you really believed what you were saying, why would you even set up this false dilemma? Italics (provided by me) proves you are scum.

There is no flavour in my pm. And i havent seen anybody else argue otherwise yet. People seem to be excusing you without looking at the bare facts.

I used an example because it was the easier way to prove my point.
Why you say italics proves anything and then don't explain it is beyond me.

What more needs to be said? I simply highlighted the bit where you inferred that ZazieR was correct, and you were bitter about it. That is effectively a confession.

I disagree that this is "effectively a confession".

I think Zazie's attitude is likely protown. It's natural to be wary of people who ignore the blatantly obvious in order to refrain from voting scum. I'm keeping an eye out for it too. But, first things first.

I disagree that Zazier's attitude is "likely protown". I think it's pretty neutral in my opinion. I'm wary of anybody who is jumps up and down screaming about having caught scum in a not so clear cut trap.

He's confirmed scum. Read the last 2 pages. Basically, Zazie tricked him into claiming he had flavour in his role pm, when obviously, thats a lie.

If you wanna read and post analysis first, go for it. Personally, i dont see the point until tomorrow.

I hate it when any player tells a replacement what they should be doing. That's encouraging them not to read the game and learn the full story behind every player. This is partially why I don't think some players understand the full story on AceMarksmen/Shrinehme like Battle Mage who's asking me why I'm voting for him when I've stated my reasons quite a couple of times.

King is clearly town.

Oh. My goodness I don't think I've had a bigger WTF moment in this game. I passionately disagree that King is clearly town.

Neither KMD nor Hewitt (who virtually mimics the former, without reprise) actually assess King as they might if they wanted to assess his affiliation. Instead, they criticise him for not contributing-in a manner which, i consider to be "coaching".

Sorry this is a little sidetrack but I'd just like to clarify for the record that I was the one who first pointed out King was scummy not Kmd so I don't think I'm doing any mimicking thanks much.

Hmm, good point. But, knowing King is not affiliated with Shrine, is a point in his favour.

Wow.
1. You don't KNOW anything about King's affiliation unless you're linked to him somehow.
and 2. That is NOT a point in his favor. With multiple scum teams just because somebody does not

Possible Hewitt-Javert link?

All I know what to say to this is ?

I don't like lurking, but King is right. The last ten (!) pages have basically been circular arguments.

If somebody doesn't like the course of the game then uh duh who's responsibility is it to add in something to make it better, theirs obviously.

It can frequently be a good idea to not put all your reasoning out front straight away, and anyone who argues otherwise is a n00b.

Majorly disagree unless the player in question has reasonings because of night investigations and has not claimed yet. Sure it may be a good idea to keep something back but we're talking about players who vote and that's it without giving reasoning. That's just plain stupid.

[hewitt]

Mod Edit Votecount 3-23

Shrinehme - 9

(ZazieR, Zer0ph34r, Battle Mage, orangepenguin, RedCoyote, cateraction, ryan2754, hewitt, Kise)

cateraction - 2

(Amished, kmd4390)

Zer0ph34r - 2

(King, Shrinehme)

kmd4390 - 1

(White Castle)

RedCoyote -

(Javert)

King - 1

(The Fonz)

Not Voting - 2

(Lowell, zoraster)

With 18 alive, it takes 10 to lynch.

---

This analogy means absolutely nothing to me. Could you possibly try and explain in a way that doesnt involve me learning a card game?

Okay like if someone's holding two envelopes and one has a million bucks in it and one has a go to jail card in it. You reach out to grab one and the person who's holding it's eyes go all big like "uhhh that one might not be a good idea" so you grab the other one and it has the money in it.

That's what i said. In fact, for maximum coherence, i specified what you indicated he was wrong on.
What reason do you have to think that Zazie (and the vast majority of us here) are wrong on the flavour thing?

Well no that's a little untrue, if the vast majority of "you" believed the flavour thing Shrinehme would be gone by now. I don't have reasons to believe the flavour theory is wrong, I just don't know if it's right. It's outguessing the mod, which is always dumb, and nothing's impossible in these games. I see something new everyday so it's possible Shrinehme is telling the truth.

So you feel the case on Ace, is stronger in and of itself, than the confirmation that came with Shrine's slip?

Oh yeah I definitely feel the case on AceMarksmen is stronger than the case on Shrinehme...which is weird because they're the same player lol.

I dont see why, from a town perspective, you would want scum to be active in manipulating the town. As long as we dont let lurkers slide, im quite happy for us to cruise to an easy win. I think picking on him, indicates a double-standard.

You don't know if scum is being active or not, so the more players are participating the easier it'll be to see who's scum and who's not.

I disagree. I'm not a gambler, but i'd bet good (real) money on Shrine being scum. If Shrine ISN'T scum, rest assured, i'll be taking it up with the Mod, because essentially, there is no way he could be protown and have flavour when nobody else does.

You've even gone as far as to say, that in addition to what i've seen whilst being here- Shrine's effective confession, you also had a case on his precursor, for scummy play. So, you have more reason than anyone to suspect Shrine-why do you have doubts about him being scum?

This is a massive town-tell for you, if he comes up scum, btw.

What do you think of KMD's behaviour?

There's doubts in whoever I'm voting for obviously, sometimes I voice them more vocally than others if I disagree with reasons why a player's scum and now is one of those occasions. The reasons I have for voting AceMarksmen/Shrinehme I think are really good, other reasons...I don't necessarily think they're good enough.

I haven't really been paying much attention to Kmd, probably because he hasn't been doing anything worthwhile much otherwise I'd probably remember more about him. So right now I guess he sounds like a floater to me and I don't like that at all.

You think he could be scum with Shrine?

If Shrinehme is scum then it depends on his affiliation. I don't know if he could be on a scumteam with Shrinehme but he's for sure viable to be on a scumteam with somebody, either Tarhalindur or StevieT92 seem like plausible to me.

Hmm, good point. But, knowing King is not affiliated with Shrine, is a point in his favour.

Wow.
1. You don't KNOW anything about King's affiliation unless you're linked to him somehow.
and 2. That is NOT a point in his favor. With multiple scum teams just because somebody does not

1. It's fairly obvious if you read his posts. How do you expect to find scum in this game if you dont make judgements without cops? And, did you REALLY just try and suggest me and King are scumchums?
2. I guess you gave up mid-way through the sentence here. Mathematically, knowing King is not in 1 scumteam, means he is more likely to be town than any given player who we do NOT hold such information about. In my case, that makes King the most protown player here (with role-related exception ofc )

HAHA omg I don't know why that cut off there the rest of my sentence was something along the lines of With multiple scum teams just because somebody does not seem to be in a scumteam with someone who isn't confirmed scum doesn't mean their not scum with any other possible affiliation. Meaning it's completely plausible that he's linked to Tarhalindur and StevieT92.

1. Actually what I meant by that was unless you're linked to him, meaning he's a third mason (which actually I guess he could be scum in) but that's not what I was getting at
2. This will be easier to assess depending on what Shrinehme flips.

[hewitt]

Are you taking into about the fact that about 1/3 of the players are lurking?

Yes. Yes I am.

Outguessing the Mod is not "always dumb". It's frowned upon, and when im modding, it really annoys me. But, from a player perspective, it can be incredibly valuable. Today proves it.

It's wierd that you seem to feel like the new evidence on Shrine is a towntell for him, because apparently you were convinced before that he was scum, and now you have doubts.

I've never had doubts concerning MY case against AceMarksmen/Shrinehme. It's other players' cases that I doubt.

Lol, you arent really answering the question. My point is that King is very unlikely to be scum with Shrine. Do you disagree? If so, explain King's behaviour today, in terms of a relationship with Shrine.

I agree that King is probably not on a scumteam with Shrinehme. I don't really see a connection between the two players.

So you are sure that Shrine is not affiliated to either of those 2? More importantly, you still ignore my real point. That, statistically, King is a worse lynch than other players, because we know that he isnt part of 2 scumgroup. Therefore, you're gonna need a far stronger case on him to persuade me that he is a good lynch.

I don't think I ever insinuated that Shrinehme can't be affiliated with either of the two known scumteams. I think he's a scummy player but I don't know why I'd need to build a stronger case on him to persuade you that he's a good lynch because I don't think he's the correct lynch today. Tomorrow perhaps. But for right now no.

There is quite a sense of urgency regarding Shrinehme for those who are sitting on the fence considering we're a day away from deadline. Soooo for all those complaining about no lynches and such they should probably be doing something about it.

[hewitt]

Alright so we’ve got myself, Zazier, ZeroPhear, Battle Mage, orangepenguin, RedCoyote, ryan2754, Kise, Javert, Amished, King, White Castle, The Fonz, and Lowell. If I had to pick three players off the bat who I would think are most likely to be scum I would say Javert, King, and White Castle. That’s without going back and looking at the events played out so most likely once I get my head straight I’ll have a better analysis.

Cateraction turning up vanilla townie did surprise me, it also kind of surprised me that he was nightkilled. I did not think he seemed like a pro-town player at all. I think it’s imperative to point out that weaker players like cateraction don’t necessarily mean scum. I think it’s safe to say that some of the more aggressive, vocal, pro-town seeming players are scum. I know that should be obvious but I think that’s something to dwell on before going oh well let’s go after ZeroPhear.

[hewitt]

No I most definitely do not assume a pro-town player is responsible for cateraction's death. cateraction was a vanilla townie which means scumteams knew he wasn't with them so it's a toss-up. I would like to think pro-town roles would be better at targeting scum and not town players. And btw that first post of yours was incredibly scummy if that's all you've got to offer.

[hewitt]

I have no idea what you're talking about with the explanation thing. And I have no idea what you're talking about concerning ZeroPhearj. I don't have reasons for going after ZeroPhear and he's not an ideal lynch today at all.

[hewitt]

I think it’s safe to say that some of the more aggressive, vocal, pro-town seeming players are scum. I know that should be obvious but I think that’s something to dwell on before going oh well let’s go after ZeroPhear.

[hewitt]

To be quite honest I never saw a link between ZeroPhear and Shrinehme anyways. Can you give me concrete examples on how ZeroPhear can be linked to a known, existing scumteam?

[hewitt]

Hang on. You think that 'some of' implying more than one, of the 'aggressive, protown seeming' people is scum. Yet you list King, who couldn't by any stretch of the imagination be seen as that, and WC, who doesn't stand out to me as particularly aggressive. What gives?

I said in that paragraph that if I were to just name off obvious names that come to my mind first. I then stated that obviously that's not the right way to go and that I'll have to delve deeper. Otherwise I would've just voted one of them.

To be quite honest I never saw a link between ZeroPhear and Shrinehme anyways. Can you give me concrete examples on how ZeroPhear can be linked to a known, existing scumteam?

Shrine isn't existing scumeteam. He is an SK. Thus, all links between him and other players are null n void.

I know that I clearly said give me concrete examples on how ZeroPhear can be linked to a know, existing scumteam not SK.

Aren't you one of the more agressive and vocal players in this game? And you probably think of yourself as pro-town? So by your own criteria, you are scum.

I would agree that I'm aggressive, vocal, and pro-town so yeah players should definitely be questioning me too obviously. I would view that to be poor effort on my fellow townmates' part to not question me.

If hewitt is scum, Zero is his buddy.

I can see why you'd say that but I have no link to ZeroPhear that I'm aware of.

This. hewitt, how did you miss this? Could you explain who/what you were thinking about when you made post 1943?

...Can you guys not read? Or did I make that unclear...see above RedCoyote. Just for clarification I'll repost this so that you don't have to read it four times like Kise.

To be quite honest I never saw a link between ZeroPhear and Shrinehme anyways. Can you give me concrete examples on how ZeroPhear can be linked to a known, existing scumteam?

[hewitt]

Well, you have been pushing pretty hard NOT to lynch him today, so that is KIND of a link.

I'm talking about in my role. I said that I can see why you'd say that though.

I think you made it unclear. The way you phrased that post it sounds like you are equating Shrine with a known, existing scumteam. It just sounded peculiuar, and as OP inferred, it sounded prematurely defensive of Zer0.

I actually don't think I made it unclear at all. Shrinehme isn't on an existing scumteam so I don't know why you'd think that I was equating Shrinehme with a known, existing scumteam. It's pretty obvious.

The intention of your 'some of the vocal players' thing is clear- to protect Zero. But you did say you suspected those three, and no amount of weaselling is going to get you out of it.

Yeah, at the moment I don't want to see ZeroPhear lynched today and that's clearly the easiest route that many players would go for today. And no actually I said if I had to pick three players who are most likely to be scum right off the bat without evidence or proof. That's gut feeling and gut feeling is not a good way to play the game but I just wanted to make it known because it was the first post of the day and I wanted to start conversation.

Hi all, I'm replacing in for White Castle, I'm trying to catch up, will post something more substantial in a bit, but for now:

hewitt, first post of today, seems to me like he's making sure suspicion is immedietly off him at the start of the day, and then got mixed up with what he was saying with all the pro town scum stuff, though I agree with his vew on Zero, who I think he's too easy a lynch after yesterday, might be worth probing other avenues first.

King, I really don't see what you're getting at, can you elaborate?

BM, not sure I see your view on RedCoyote, he's brought up some good points from what I can see.

Actually I'm pretty sure I invited people to feel free to question me all they want on whatever they want. Not making sure suspicion is immediately off myself considering it wasn't on me to end the day yesterday.

[hewitt]

Well let's see... D3 all I've been saying is how I'm comfortable with a cat', Ace/Shrine or Zer0 lynch. 2 down, 1 left on my list. Capish?

Well considering you're wrong on 2/3 perhaps we shouldn't be listening to your judgment.

I'm not going to beckon them out, but shouldn't we have a cop? I'm going to go ahead and direct the cop into investigating Empking. Not Azrei, because Emp said something about lynching Azrei on D1, so I'm thinking Emp could be a 0.5 Mason (this role exists... and I will never trust Sotty again because of this).

Empking has been dead for like two days. Wow. That really shows how much you've been paying attention to this game. And you're honestly expecting us to just go ahead and lynch ZeroPhear because you think he's scummy when you think a player who's been dead for days is still in the game?

[hewitt]

I meant to say Phoebus. I don't know why I thought Empking & Az' were the masons. And 2 out of 3 is still pretty good odds .

No you've lost two out of three. You only have one out of three remaining.

Vote: RedCoyote

. This should've been done quite some time ago, but people don't like to listen to Zer0ph34r.

Because you don't say anything worthwhile and you don't give any reasoning behind your vote. Shut up and quit complaining if you're not going to do anything.

What do you mean by "wrong on 2/3"?

Well let's see... D3 all I've been saying is how I'm comfortable with a cat', Ace/Shrine or Zer0 lynch. 2 down, 1 left on my list. Capish?

Hands up who thinks this looks like an informed minority comment?

Well let's see... D3 all I've been saying is how I'm comfortable with a cat', Ace/Shrine or Zer0 lynch. 2 down, 1 left on my list. Capish?

Honestly do any of you ever read?

*Hand stays down*

Oh good ZazieR does.

Rephrase?
Especially the bolded part.

I said it exactly how I meant it. I'd hope a pro-town power role would be targeting players who are scum not town.

Why are you asking for a link between Zer0 and a known existing scumgroup?
Because it makes no sense to me that you are asking for one. You stated before that due to the flips (especially the one of cateraction), we might want to look at pro-town looking players.
Yet, we've made two links between Tar and a different player: Cateraction and Ace. Both were wrong. So why are you now asking for a link, while so far we've been wrong about it?

Because if you would give the goddamn chance instead of running your mouth at every chance answering questions of mine directed at other players I was GOING to break down why his logic for targeting ZeroPhear does not make sense based on links between known, existing scumteam

This is such a scummy argument.
Because he was wrong about two players (Pfft, Jesus Kise ) doesn't immediatly mean he's wrong about the third.

I was insinuating that his reasons suck for voting ZeroPhear, do you honestly not understand any of my posts? Because you and other players keep twisting everything I say around. Am I not speaking correct English or something?

[hewitt]

*Hand up*

It's one thing for hewitt to say Zer0 looks town to him, it's another thing for him to say Kise is as wrong about Zer0 being scum as he was about Emp being scum.

Oh...my...God. I really don't appreciate it when people twist around what I say. Let me go over the series of events again.

Well let's see... D3 all I've been saying is how I'm comfortable with a cat', Ace/Shrine or Zer0 lynch. 2 down, 1 left on my list. Capish?

Well let's see... D3 all I've been saying is how I'm comfortable with a cat', Ace/Shrine or Zer0 lynch. 2 down, 1 left on my list. Capish?

Well considering you're wrong on 2/3 perhaps we shouldn't be listening to your judgment.

Well considering you're wrong on 2/3 perhaps we shouldn't be listening to your judgment.

Hands up who thinks this looks like an informed minority comment?

*Hand up*

It's one thing for hewitt to say Zer0 looks town to him, it's another thing for him to say Kise is as wrong about Zer0 being scum as he was about Emp being scum.

WHAT ARE YOU PEOPLE TALKING ABOUT. I really clearly stated that he was wrong about 2/3 of his list of people who he would like to lynch on D3, cateraction, Shrinehme, and ZeroPhear. So I then made a bitchy/sarcastic remark about how "oh yeah we should obviously listen to you cause you've gotten to out of the three wrong" and all of the sudden that quote has been twisted around to be an informed minority comment?

How is that an informed minority comment? What I stated was fact you bozo's. lol goddamn.

BM got on my case last time a misread you; I'm not making the mistake again. I asked you because I couldn't believe you were as sure that Zer0 was town as you are that Emp is. I just do not see it, at all. I think you are relying far too much on your instinct, and I don't think you are questioning yourself enough.

I don't know if this makes you scum though.

Sooo you're not misreading me you're purposely twisting my words around...

[hewitt]

I do not "think" that ZeroPhear is town. I think it is much more likely that he's town at this point than scum but he's not cleared in my book.

[hewitt]

No ZeroPhear, you complain. Now either don't complain, or shut up. And by shut up, I mean get out of the game.

[hewitt]

I didn't answer your question. Your question was for some spicific players to show you connections between Zer0 and an existing, known scum team. I didn't show you a thing. Instead, I asked you some questions about it. Please answer.

No you shot down my question and allowed the person I was questioning to skate by without answering how he would have if you hadn't interrupted the line of conversation.

Ah, got it, Hewitt. Had to re-read it after you explained it. Makes sense now.

Thank youuu lol.

The 2nd paragraph of your post at the start of D4 doesn't match up with the quotes above. I need to ask why you felt the need to mention weak players not really being scum and that vocal players are more likely scum[?]; who were you trying to talk to in general?

Well in a lot of games it's an easy scum tactic for them to steamroll the town by being incredibly vocal and basically running the lynches on the weaker players. So far all the weak players we've lynched have flipped town so I think it's a bad idea to go after a player like ZeroPhear or King right now simply because they suck. If you're asking me who I think are the most vocal and have a chance at being scum because they kind of act like they're running the town I would have to say Zazier, Battle Mage, or RedCoyote. I think there's been enough picking off the weaker players, it's time to make some power moves.

To explicitly state that Kise is wrong on 2 out of 3 means that Hewitt basically knows that Zero is town

WTF IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE? AMISHED, REEEEAD OMG.

[hewitt]

Gotcha. I feel good now about hewitt, Zer0 & Zazie. Since damn near everyone is suspecting them, they can't be buddies with anyone. 'Cept Zazie of course.

That's nice and all but I've got to point out that your logic isn't really helpful here because scum could just be bussing their partner.

[hewitt]

Kise wanted Cateraction dead (NK'd, Vanilla Townie)
Kise wanted Ace/Shrine dead (Lynched, SK)
Kise wants Zero dead (still alive).

He was right about wanting Ace/Shrine dead due to them being anti-town (I keep "scum" terms for groups). He was "wrong" about cat due to cat being pro-town. (I use "wrong" as I thought Cateraction was scummy as well, and if the flavor thing didn't pop up I would've guessed that Cat would've been at the top of the questioning list in my eyes). So since Kise is now "right" once and "wrong" once, for him to be wrong on 2/3 he'd have to be wrong on Zero. In that instance, Zero would have to be pro-town. While I believe him to be pro-town, he could be just feeding my ego or whatever to make me believe he is, while I don't know. The way you stated it looks like you *know* Zero should stay alive due to him being pro-town, and wanting him dead would be "wrong".

I don't consider Shrinehme's role to be scum so no you're still not making any sense, but that was a very good attempt at trying to twist my words around.

. The way you stated it looks like you *know* Zero should stay alive due to him being pro-town, and wanting him dead would be "wrong".

This is exactly what I was getting at. It indicates knowledge of Zero's aligment. Of those dead, one town, one scum (I don't reserve the term scum for mafia, but for any role who is non-town and whose achievement of their win condition makes it harder/impossible for town to realise theirs).

However, given that we have multiple antitown factions, he can't really know for sure that anyone's town, so on reflection he probably just expressed himself badly, or has a stupid amount of confidence in Zero being town.

I think Hewitt's point in defence of Zero is a good one actually- I've never seen a scum fail to hammer a non-buddy at deadline when given the opportunity.

I don't like

[hewitt]

I don't consider Shrinehme's role to be scum so no you're still not making any sense, but that was a very good attempt at trying to twist my words around.

A serial killer is anti-town, as their win condition and the town's win condition are in direct conflict with each other. What are you trying to say? That lynching a serial killer is wrong?

No I meant to say that I view scumteams to be the town's greatest threat and I think above all the scumteams need to be lynched otherwise we cannot win. We have lynched a lyncher and a serial killer and guess what, we are no closer to winning this game. It's about time we grow some effing balls and do something to win this game already.

And I don't know why I was cut off in my last post but what I mean to say was I don't like the constant twisting around of my words in this game. It's getting on my nerves majorly.

[hewitt]

we still needed to kill him.

DO. NOT. LIE. ANSWER THIS QUESTION- In order to win this game did we need to kill him?

[hewitt]

Oh. Okay I was wrong here actually. I've never played with a serial killer before and I was actually under the impression that he was like a vigilante. You're are completely correct in saying that we did need to lynch Shrinehme my apologies for all the confusion. That was a pretty silly error on my part and now I understand why my 2 out of 3 comment was so confusing.

[hewitt]

Why are you asking for a link between Zer0 and a known existing scumgroup?
Because it makes no sense to me that you are asking for one. You stated before that due to the flips (especially the one of cateraction), we might want to look at pro-town looking players.
Yet, we've made two links between Tar and a different player: Cateraction and Ace. Both were wrong. So why are you now asking for a link, while so far we've been wrong about it?

[/quote]

Zazier I've already answered this question.

Why aren't you doing so?

Last, why no vote?

Am I not talked to you? Am I not conversing with players who are posting frequently? And I'm not voting because I don't have anyone who I think is scum yet.

Not buying it. First of all, you have played with a SK before:
Open 104
Sure, you didn't mention the role, but you did play with one. Small detail though.
However, the part about not knowing that the SK is anti-town is worse as you knew he was third party.
So explain why you thought he didn't need to be killed.

That was my first game on the site and at the time SK did not jump out to me at all considering it was a modkilled player at a time when a whole bunch of players were being modkilled and our scum strategy was to let everyone self-destruct. So I honestly don't know why I'm supposed to care if you're "not buying it" that's just how it is. I already explained why I thought he didn't need to be killed.

Just for clarification, I do understand hewitt's change in stance regarding cateraction since most weaker players have currently flipped town. I thought he was breadcrumbing at the start of the day, but reviewing makes me understand it a bit more. But even before cat' flipped, there was a lot of defense of Zer0 on your part, hewitt. But have you checked out Steviw/Zer0's interactions (iso)?

I've sort of flipped through it but if there's something I was supposed to catch in there I missed it.

What weak players have we lynched that flipped t...

You know what, no, I'm not going though it again. I'm not asking you to clarify one of your defensive, awkwardly worded, too bold, and too aggressive statements again.

Unvote; vote: hewitt

We've lynched no town players, nor have we lynched particularly weak players in my estimation. I think you are out on a limb for Zer0 for no reason, and then you throw King in there, I'm assuming because Kise pressured him some. You've been backing up Zer0 since D2 for sure, possibly since D1. It's a wonder you aren't voting Javert (formerly Caboose) right now, because that would just about be the cherry on top.

(And before anyone asks, I am making the vote with the knowledge that hewitt claimed he thought an SK was the same as a Vigilante.)

Hey I can't help it if I'm awkward, bold, and aggressive, comes naturally lol.

[hewitt]

Link, because I haven't seen it.

Because if you would give the goddamn chance instead of running your mouth at every chance answering questions of mine directed at other players I was GOING to break down why his logic for targeting ZeroPhear does not make sense based on links between known, existing scumteam

Keyword in the post from which you picked this quote: Questioning.
Questioning isn't the same as talking or conversing.

I'd prefer to wait until after I'm done being attacked. Cross-actions muddle the game up in my opinion so I'll play defense for now and then go back on offense.

ORLY? You knew that the SK kills players and you knew he doesn't belong to the town. Want to share what your win condition is?

I have no idea what ORLY was and I just figured he was a third party like a lyncher and I honestly never really gave the SK much thought because I had very little contact with the role before. My team wins when all threats to the town are gone.