Mafia 97 - Day Night Mafia, Game Over

[BloodCovenent]

Vote: Snow White

Because it's summer at the moment.

[BloodCovenent]

Vote: Snow White

Because it's summer at the moment.

How do you know she isn't in the Southern Hemisphere, where it is Winter?

Also, you misspelled Covenant.

Vote: BloodCovenent

regardless of the location of her, for me, it is the summer season based on the date. Granted, some nations have less seasons then America (where I am located), some have the rainy season, and the not rainy season. So the real question is, shouldn't you be asking where I live?

And, as for my name, it has been spelled that way for several years now, and it's more of a trademark, i.e, it is my gamertag on all of my consoles, my aim address, and my twitter. So, basing your vote on the misspelling of my name, without the actual history of my name leads me to believe that you tend to overlook important details of situations.

[BloodCovenent]

Actually, my vote on you is because it is the random voting stage, and so reasons are supposed to be funny. This was my attempt at humor. Thank you so much for defusing the joke.

Yea

I know <3

Mod: Is my BC vote ok or do I have to make it exact?

whaha? it should be? And bandwagon much?

[BloodCovenent]

vote: BloodCovenent

I'm not a huge fan of blood...

Vote: Snow White

Because it's summer at the moment.

How do you know she isn't in the Southern Hemisphere, where it is Winter?

Also, you misspelled Covenant.

Vote: BloodCovenent

Unvote: DIDO
Vote: Blood Covenent

No reason to defend a joke yet.

FoS: BloodCovenent

for being suspicious of a 2-vote wagon when it's 9 to lynch.

Sure...... Way to count...?

Vote Count #1

BloodCovenent - 3 (Bekkatha, nhammen, Platypus_Dude)
CJMiller - 1 (DIDO)
Empking - 1 (Achilles)
Konowa - 1 (Scott Brosius)
Platypus_Dude - 1 (canadianbovine)
Snow White - 1 (BloodCovenent)
Wiirdo - 3 (MonkeyMan576, Konowa, CJMiller)

Not Voting: Empking, falkomagno, Kise, lobstermania, looker, Snow White, Wiirdo

[BloodCovenent]

That's funny. I thought my 'No need to defend a random vote' thing under my vote would indicate it wasn't a bandwagon vote. Even if it was a bandwagon vote, why does it matter?

It really doesn't matter, i didn't really take offense to it, if that makes a difference, however I'm glad we're inching our way out of the RVS on early page two, but I think it's really early to start bandwagoning this early as well, without the contributions of everyone else. Considering less than half of the players have posted.

Unvote:
Vote: BloodCovenent

That's not nice

Sometimes people overreact during stuff that happens in the random voting stage.

I AM NOT OVERREACTING AT ALL!!!!

Sometimes these people are being defensive because they're scum, sometimes not. But it's worth pursuing.

i guess, but i personally don't think i was overreacting...

I find it funny, that i'm not allowed to defend my case, even in the RVS.

My response in post 19, was technically a joke, i didn't really care that he voted me, i just wanted to get the game moving. I guess Platypus dude thought it was serious of me, but that's fine. And then he asks if is vote is legit... why wouldn't it be? And my post 25, was practically a joke too, making fun of Miller for not being able to count, thats all. Not really over reacting, just stating an observation.

And now, to Monkies post, i practically

have

to defend myself, otherwise i look like a loser.

[BloodCovenent]

And now, to Monkies post, i practically

have

to defend myself, otherwise i look like a loser.

Personally, I'd be more worried about looking like scum than looking like a loser...

hmm.. you don't know me. I like to be loved

You seem to be very sensitive and reactionary to me,

Maybe I just like to post a lot, and have a lot on my mind regarding this game, wanting it to pick up and such. However, i will be unable until everyone starts posting [/quote]

it could be because you're on a scumteam,

However, i am not.

obviously it's just an observation and this point and not a tell,

Correct.

but I like my vote.

This makes me sad

[BloodCovenent]

Since we are now unofficially out of RVS...

Unvote
Vote: BloodCovenent[/b

In my book, overreacting is a definite scum tell.

You're book of three months?

I'm gonna call bullshit on this one.

Vote: MM

I see no overeaction.

Have you actually read his posts? He admits to overreacting.

Where exactly did i claim that I was overreacting, that wasn't sarcastic? Unless you can find a specific post number where I admit to overreacting, i'm gonna pull the... "You're using false information," card. Because I don't see it at all.

On post 31 he admits that he's more interested in "being loved" than being pro-town. To me that's being reactionary.

Besides the fact that your taking my quote out of context. Also, you said that you, personally would not want to look scummy, as a town player, i have nothing to hide. If I get lynched, oh well, as long as i help the town destroy scum, and the town wins, i'll be happy.

ORIGINAL POST:

And now, to Monkies post, i practically

have

to defend myself, otherwise i look like a loser.

Personally, I'd be more worried about looking like scum than looking like a loser...

hmm.. you don't know me. I like to be loved

If i didn't defend myself, it probably would have drawn more fire to me. If I didn't defend myself, or do anything, then i would have looked even more scummy than now, possibly. So, you took everything that I said out of context. Thats really not cool. 1) it makes your argument flawed, and 2) it makes you look scummy for pushing a case with no evidence.

Unvote

at the moment.

I think that CjMiller, and MonkeyMan are both acting scummy.

[BloodCovenent]

Bandwagoning is the best way out of RVS. That was my reasoning.

So if YOU weren't bandwagoning, then you were trying to lure someone else into bandwagoning?

Kise.... just stop posting.... please.

[BloodCovenent]

OMGUS much? I didn't take anything you said out of TRUE context, I just took it out of the context where it looks good for you, which you are trying to deflect, poorly.

False. you can't base your reasoning on my personality, which you don't even know, because you don't have real interactions with me in the real world. Its a null-tell. besides, there wasn't any overreaction at all. did you even read the part where I said

"If i didn't defend myself, it probably would have drawn more fire to me. If I didn't defend myself, or do anything, then i would have looked even more scummy than now. "

MM, it truly feels like you didn't read my post at all, because, i wrote a decent amount, and you quoted all of it for some reason, but only responded to a tidbit of the information, and like-questions that i was asking in response to you. Take some initiative to answer questions.

[BloodCovenent]

I'm not required to respond to every word you said. I responded to what I felt was relevant. Your first responce to being attacked is to OMGUS, so I feel that you're probably scum. But, like you said, you're not worried about looking that way, so it shouldn't bother you.

Just because i said that, does that i am not allowed to defend myself?

[BloodCovenent]

I'm not required to respond to every word you said. I responded to what I felt was relevant. Your first responce to being attacked is to OMGUS, so I feel that you're probably scum. But, like you said, you're not worried about looking that way, so it shouldn't bother you.

Just because i said that, does that i am not allowed to defend myself?

You're allowed to defend yourself, but OMGUSing is generally scummy. Not to mention admitting you don't care about acting pro-town.

how exactly was i OMGUS? Because i defended myself, while showing your flaws, that constitutes as OMGUS? Sorry, I must be a really bad player. And do you mean anti-town?

[BloodCovenent]

Usually if you have fault's with someone's behavior, you attack them BEFORE they attack you, otherwise it just looks like you're trying to cover yourself. And I mean what I say.

But i didn't have a problem until you started taking my quote out of context.

[BloodCovenent]

And like i said, I didn't take anything out of context, my interpretation didn't make you feel as "loved" as you would like...

But that was based on my personality, not my mafia play. Its a null tell.

[BloodCovenent]

Also, you seem annoyed at Kise, even though his vote is not even on you. Why?

Kise.... just stop posting.... please.

Because his play play style annoys me.

[BloodCovenent]

here is my BFP.... Enjoy.

---

I do not like CJMillar saying the same thing as MM in the first game post, as he (CJ) votes wiirdo in post 12. Piggybacking, and starting a bandwagon. ( i consider a bandwagon 3+ votes, fyi)

this quote does not sit well with me.

Vote: Konowa

At least CJ made some sort of joking comment, putting a second vote on someone this early without an explanation is no good.

While CJ put the third vote on someone, whilst what appears, to me to be piggybacking. does anyone see a connection between these two players?

What problem is there with a two-vote wagon with a 9 vote lynch threshold?

FoS: BloodCovenent

for being suspicious of a 2-vote wagon when it's 9 to lynch.

More Piggybacking. (it was also a three-vote wagon. Good work)

Konowa, not saying anything makes you appear suspicious because it makes it appear as though you were told who to vote for and have no opinion on the matter. Can you understand this at least?

Secondly, please do not misunderstand me. Because i dont expect people to have reasons to vote Day1 doesnt mean i abolish the idea that some people do have ideas and theories in Day1 and in that case i think they should air them instead of keeping it to themselves and expecting people to follow blindly.

And when you said "you had a reason why you voted wiirdo" i was curious.

I found you suspicious because you
-came in and wordlessly voted for Wiirdo.
-Gave no reason.
-Said you had a reason.
-Failed to say what your reason was.
-When questioned by Scott Brosious you changed your vote to Scott Brosious.
-You also failed to mention why you were changing votes.
.

Vote: Konowa

At least CJ made some sort of joking comment, putting a second vote on someone this early without an explanation is no good.

What is the difference between not giving a reason for a random vote and giving a random reason for a random vote?

Do all votes need explanations?

Also, I did have a reason. I just did not state it. No, it was not random.

unvote;

vote Scott

I Agree with this defense. Snow, he only laid the second vote. Of course there are going to be bandwagons in the game, but calling someone out for the second vote, while in the RVS, seems fishy to me.

Snow, you also said this...

-Said you had a reason.
-Failed to say what your reason was.

What if it has something to do with meta? Like he does not enjoy playing with said character. Example, I do not enjoy playing with Kise, he is usually very scummy. In one game, he played very very scummy, and turned out to be the cop. This led to a bad wagon, and a bad lynch. Therefore, it gave scum an easy ride through day 1, and lynch analysis is harder to do.

unvote: vote: konowa

total omgus

i would also like to hear your reasoning for that previous vote. only good time to hold information is if you're scum.

No, i don't blame him. Scott is scummier than Konowa.

Surprisingly im not going to vote BloodCovenent if only for their vote on me. And the name Snow White is from my nickname irl. from a night out about 2yr ago.

See! All names have a meaning

Not giving a random reason makes you seem suspicious if only because you were voting for someone else who already had a vote. If you'd voted for someone with no votes, i think it may have gone unnoticed.

I disagree, we were not out of the RVS.

Preferably all votes should have a point.

But not mandatory.

In my book, overreacting is a definite scum tell.

Like i said, book of three months? It is not a scum-tell. Have you ever played with Mastin?

Vote: Achilles

Since we are now unofficially out of RVS...

Awww.....

Unvote

what? I don't understand. If you're going to place a vote, do so. We were only on page two.

A bandwagon? You BANDWAGONED in the RVS???

Yeah, thanks for getting us out of the RVS.

Vote: Konowa

A very serious vote, indeed.

Bandwagons always form in the RVS. It is one of the ways we get out of the RVS. Personally my favorite as it forces people to react.

Also, how is a second vote on someone a bandwagon Kise?

I did not say anything about your 2nd vote, so don't strawman me.

Then what were you referring to? I don't like this three post section. Considering that two votes on a person in a 9 to lynch day is hardly a bandwagon >.> (yes, i know, piggybacking. [But it's true, i'd almost say that Kise was overreacting] as much as i don't want to throw that term around loosely. Almost like overreacting, i guess... what does everyone else think about this?)

Oh, you mean you being the 2nd person to vote for Wiirdo?

It's a bandwagon because you just jumped on it. You went with the 'hip' choice and, to boot, didn't say anything other than a vote.

never mind... this might nullify my claim.

was a bandwagon that necessary so early? getting out of the random voting stage when you were only the 4th person posting?

I guess that i hardly felt that his vote was a bandwagon. I would be looking into CJ miller more than Konowa.

(I guess what this means is: Konowa, for future reference, if you don't want to appear scummy, add a random reason to your not so random vote)

I don't like this. You told me things that would not make me look scummy, or things that i should do to not make me look scummy. are you trying to Buddy with one of us? I don't know if i trust your scum knowledge to take your advice, considering that every player plays differently. Some players will take one situation as a scum tell, and others not.

OMGUS much? [Referring to me of course]

But wait, where did i ever vote or fos you? I'm just trying to defend the case against me.
https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... d_You_Suck

I'm not required to respond to every word you said. I responded to what I felt was relevant. Your first responce to being attacked is to OMGUS, so I feel that you're probably scum. But, like you said, you're not worried about looking that way, so it shouldn't bother you.

This feels like a tone of ignorance to me. Attitude changes can be a scum-tell in some occasions.

You're allowed to defend yourself, but OMGUSing is generally scummy. Not to mention admitting you don't care about acting pro-town.

How did i OMGUS? Can i get a post number with a specific line?

Monkey is tunneling Blood pretty hard. Especially for page 4. And he's taking quotes out of context really bad. I'm not sure if he is scum or just dumb town, so I still have my FOS on him. CJs wagoning is still the scummiest thing I have seen so far though. I also think Kise is mildly scummy, but its probably nothing.

My opinion is dumb town trying to scum hunt. I'll give him some credit, just that he's doing a really bad job at it.

After all this moaning sh*t, I have to say that the only truely "let's go for it" stuff so far is the bandwagon swaping of CJMiller

vote CJ Miller

is this your first post in the game? you have nothing else to comment on? Don't like this post.

I'm not tunneling, or taking anything out of context. BC's insistance that he's not doing anything scummy and then attacking me doesn't sit well with me. I have a right to press it.

Do i have that same right? According to you, it feels like i do not.

Then he OMGUS'd me. I have a duty as a townie to point it out.

you still have not given me a post number.

FoS

CJMiller. Why the rush the bandwagon? We need questions to get reads on people why vote the out so dimissively?

Were you also one that claimed that Kono was rushing a bandwagon too? Why didn't you focus on CJ first?

I can see MM's point. BloodCovenent's post 29 was, in my opinion, an over reaction to MM's faux vote

IM NOT OVER REACTING AT ALL!!!!

i considered MM to be joking with you and instead of you joking back you appeared to over react. Even if it was said with sarcasm put "(sarcasm! )" beside it to avoid the mess. But i want to know why you were more worried looking like a "loser" than looking like Scum.

I find it interesting that there are two different posts where people find that i was over reacting. However, you even say that this could be considered sarcasm, which i was intending. And as for the "Loser" part, that was a real life reference, which i believe I stated.

Also, you seem annoyed at Kise, even though his vote is not even on you. Why?

Kise.... just stop posting.... please.

That's because I do not like his play style.

I didn't put anything in his mouth. It's not a big leap to suggest that if he says "defending myself makes me look like a loser", then I say "I'd be more worried about looking like scum than a loser" and then he says "I liked to be loved", which isn't a denial, more like agreeing with me, that I take it as an affirmation.

You are manipulating my words here. Would you like to see my original post?

And now, to Monkies post, i practically

have

to defend myself, otherwise i look like a loser.

You wrote : "

defending myself makes me look like a loser"

I Wrote:

"i practically

have

to defend myself, otherwise i look like a loser."

Your post is scummy-looking to me.

I can understand that she used sarcasm. My sarcasm detector works fine. However if you are going to use sarcasm the best thing, i think, is to say "Hey guise, BTW sarcasm! " so it avoids a potential mess.

*He*

Then why claim it as overreacting if you already knew it was sarcasm?

Making an original case makes you look like scum? Are you going to OMGUS me too?

FOS: CJMiller

you and that word.....

Why did you feel the need to defend a case in the RVS?

Mostly for fun. And to get the game moving.

[BloodCovenent]

BloodCovenent.

a) sorry i keep thinking your like a crazed female twilight fan. XD sorry. genuinely. b) im mostly going to be re-itterating what ive already said.

I do like twilight, and am excited for the next movie

I was questioning Konowa on the fact he voted with no reason more so than the second vote on Wiirdo. In a game your NOT just playing with the one player your playing with several players that will too develop an idea of you. To make the mistake(in my opinion it was a mistake) of not giving a reason was just stupid. Kowona said has nothing about begrudging Scott.

But it was the fourth post in the game. What makes you think that he just cut and pasted a name from the list of players, and posted it without actually reading the thread, no matter how short or long. That's what i was going to do.

I focused on Konowa first because he claimed he had also "reasons" for voting Wiirdo first, and then changed his vote for Scott. Why have "reasons" to second vote someone else and then change your vote? However i felt Konowa cleared up this later. CJ skipped the radar until i went back and re-read from page one.

So are you going to put a case against CJ? Do you think his defense of bandwagoning meta is sound? Personally, it seems fishy to me.

What is Kise's play style? Should you even be bringing in past grudges into a new game? Just a thought. I would like to hear your opinion though.

he plays very scummy, even when he has a pro-town role. Maybe he's just a bad player, i don't know. In a game we were in, Here He played an awful game, very scummy. Lynched him, and he turned up a cop. I'm not bringing up a grudge, i just don't like his play style.

I said i could understand you used sarcasm, ie. that it could be interpreted as you using sarcasm. Personally, i cant say 100% whether it was sarcasm or an over reaction. I can only choose for the minute to believe that it was sarcasm. Just please, if your going to be the sacastic saucepot add in the "sarcasmatic!" or something

but if you felt it as sarcasm, why did you say that it was an overreaction?

I can see MM's point. BloodCovenent's post 29 was, in my opinion, an over reaction to MM's faux vote

IM NOT OVER REACTING AT ALL!!!!

[BloodCovenent]

Why are you so eager for me to place my vote? You dont understand that i dont want to vote off a townie? :/ I have already explained to you why i am keeping my vote until i am moved to use it, if i want to use it and you are still pressing me for a vote. Would you like these reasons re-explained or are you just choosing to ignore them?

As a town member, you are hindering yourself by not using your vote. The vote is the only power you have as a townie besides the post. By not using your vote, you are not being a productive townie.

I'm not sure if eager is the right word. I'm not eager for you to vote, i just find it strange that a member of the town would not want to use one of there two powers.

you are afraid of voting off a townie?
How can you be afraid of a mislynch this early in the game? there is no way that

9 players are going to accidentally quicklynch someone without making sure they're town. Your excuse of "being afraid of voting for a townie" is null, there is no risk at this point of the game.

Stop it! Stop it! Stop it! Stop it! Stop it! Stop it! Stop it! Stop it! Stop it! Stop it! Stop it! Stop it!

Vote: canadianbovine

[BloodCovenent]

Why are you so eager for me to place my vote? You dont understand that i dont want to vote off a townie? :/ I have already explained to you why i am keeping my vote until i am moved to use it, if i want to use it and you are still pressing me for a vote. Would you like these reasons re-explained or are you just choosing to ignore them?

As a town member, you are hindering yourself by not using your vote. The vote is the only power you have as a townie besides the post. By not using your vote, you are not being a productive townie.

I'm not sure if eager is the right word. I'm not eager for you to vote, i just find it strange that a member of the town would not want to use one of there two powers.

you are afraid of voting off a townie?
How can you be afraid of a mislynch this early in the game? there is no way that

9 players are going to accidentally quicklynch someone without making sure they're town. Your excuse of "being afraid of voting for a townie" is null, there is no risk at this point of the game.

Does anyone besides me find this post to be fishing at all?

Vote Count #5

BloodCovenent - 4 (Bekkatha, Platypus_Dude, MonkeyMan576, CJMiller)
canadianbovine - 2 (Snow White, BloodCovenent)
CJMiller - 4 (DIDO, nhammen, falkomagno, lobstermania)
Empking - 1 (Achilles)
xRECKONERx - 3 (Scott Brosius, canadianbovine, Kise)
MonkeyMan576 - 1 (Empking)
Scott Brosius - 1 (xRECKONERx)

Not Voting: looker, Wiirdo

Deadline is July 13th.

[BloodCovenent]

also MM, while I'm talking to you, get over the whole BC thing. You assumed he was being serious because you don't know what sarcasm is. That's alright... some people just don't get it. But BC has REPEATEDLY clarified he was being sarcastic. It's time to move on to find the REAL scum.

I'm looking for scum in several different areas. I've FOS'd CJMiller, for instance. And just because BC declares that he's being sarcastic, doesn't make him innocent. The only people who know for sure who is and isn't scum on day one is the scum themselves. I'm most certainly not going to give someone a free ride who's acting scummy just because someone else(scumbuddy?) demands it.

But what if there are two scum teams? then your reasoning is wrong.

[BloodCovenent]

^ I'm cautious to agree with MonkeyMan, but I do. BC, what changes in his argument with two scum teams versus only one?

In his argument, he states that only scum know who scum are. Logically, if there are two teams, they do not know who is the other team is. It doesn't really derail his argument. I guess i should have just said "a correction," or "in addition to." My Apology.

[BloodCovenent]

my bad snow, i didnt realize platypus had already asked your lack of voting.

How is this fishing, BC?

[lol BC and CB [me] are very easy to mix up]

To me, it just appeared that you were trying to edge her out of giving information, as if you had suspicion to believe she was not a VT role. Or just trying to see if she was VT, and not worth a scum kill.

just speculating of course.

Obviously i was at fault for a misunderstanding.

[BloodCovenent]

Bekkatha:

I assume your 'don't attack people for actions in other games' is directed at xReckonerx's comments in 118, assuming this, I don't really think he was attacking Kise, merely pointing out that quicklynches are a real threat to town.

Your attack seems out of place given his comments, or are you still directing your comments at MM? If so I can't see where he did it, please clarify who and what you're directing this accusation at.

Sorry for the confusion. That was still directed at MM. I felt that MM was already biased against Kise because of a previous game and that bias would only make things worse in the long run of the game.

Do you mean me being biased against kise? Will post more. Only on an iPod right now.

[BloodCovenent]

OMGUS doesn't always have to be accompanied by a vote, it's the intention that's scummy.

But i Unvoted Snow White.... not you. i was never voting you. (I think i'm still unvoted)

My two cents.

Post 65. BC unvotes but points FoS at CJMiller who FoS'd him and points FoS at MM who had voted him.

Just by mentioning that i think he is scummy, is that generally accepted as an FoS? The reason why i said i thought he was scummy, was that he bandwagoned the two major wagons. he realized that the Wiirdo wagon was not going anywhere, but mine seemed to be moving. Then he was the fifth vote on me, and i think he's the fourth now, since some one unvoted. i believe.

Post 66. MM Said OMGUS's there and then. I think that because he wrote it there and then he thought it was OMGUS checks him out.

I can't really speak for him. But where i think that he perceives a OMGUS is that i'm defending the case against myself. I think that I found the text where he thinks that I OMGUS'd him where i wrote:

1) it makes your argument flawed, and 2) it makes you look scummy for pushing a case with no evidence.

I don't think he liked those remarks, so he tries to poison my defense. (Is this an ad hom? /serious.)

In regard to the OMGUS'ing of CJMiller and Lobstermania.
Lobstermania: Post97 http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... t=#1743366

And the Arm of Suspicion then directed at Lobstermania directly beneath.
It ends there as CJMiller then asked to be replaced.

yes, i agree, that was rather ridiculous. I really do not like this post of CJ's.

Well, if I try to make an original case,

you will just think I'm scum.

This has happened to me before.

ARM OF SUSPICION lobstermania

Maybe CJ, if and only if you make an original case on something that is the RVS, but if your case has a legitimate backings, then you should be fine. IE, someone starting a bandwagon, and pushing for that speed lynch, work a case on that character. Anyways, your actions seemed scummy, and I'm sad to see you leave so soon. Is this also your meta

[BloodCovenent]

Sorry for the confusion. That was still directed at MM. I felt that MM was already biased against Kise because of a previous game and that bias would only make things worse in the long run of the game.

Can you point out where MM did this then? I can't see it in the last couple of pages at least.

I agree that I haven't seen an OMGUS from BC that MM is talking about, vote or not, and an unvote is pretty clearly the opposite of OMGUS. Yes you can pull an OMGUS while not voting, but it's not the norm, and an OMGUS while unvoting the person would take some rare skill I think...

I think MM's other point against BC are still valid though. I'm leaning towards MM being scum trying to stretch a case out of a small amount of evidence at this point.

I've never demanded a lynch. I merely think he is the scummiest player so far, and thus has my vote. If someone has a better case against someone else I'll change my vote.

Ok, even if you never demanded a lynch, aren't votes the leading cause of a lynch? Each vote has the possibility of creating a lynch. And the last sentence implies that you are willing to follow the crowd, and go with any other lynch. This sentence just doesn't sit well with me.

[BloodCovenent]

I've stated several times why I found him scummy. I'm not going to encourage lazyness and do your work for you.

i don't think you really mentioned the three scummy things that i did... like, you never actually said them, you only left us to presume what they were.

[BloodCovenent]

I've stated several times why I found him scummy. I'm not going to encourage lazyness and do your work for you.

i don't think you really mentioned the three scummy things that i did... like, you never actually said them, you only left us to presume what they were.

Overreacting:

whaha? it should be? And bandwagon much?

This is just the start, he continues to overreact and be reactionary and use hyperbole...

OMGUS:

I think that CjMiller, and MonkeyMan are both acting scummy.

Not denying being more interested in being popular and "loved" than being pro-town.

Personally, I'd be more worried about looking like scum than looking like a loser...

hmm.. you don't know me. I like to be loved

This is interesting, Your post 26 sure looks like you were pointing out that i was over reacting, but with how defensive I was being, not with me pointing out the start of a bandwagon. I feel as if you are changing your case constantly. The only reason why I mentioned the bandwagon, was because some one had somewhat mentioned the start of a bandwagon on some one else, in post 16.

I felt that you were acting scummy. You were twisting my words against me, that is scummy. Sorry for giving my opinion.

The whole Town vs Loved argument is pretty much irrelevant to this game. I'm pretty sure we went over this whole aspect of my post, however, I could be wrong.

[BloodCovenent]

It's nice how the person that's being wagoned gets to choose what is relavant and not...

It must be nice not having to rebuttal to any of my accusations and remarks.

[BloodCovenent]

Post 61

On post 31 he admits that he's more interested in "being loved" than being pro-town. To me that's being reactionary.

Post 198

Overreacting:

whaha? it should be? And bandwagon much?

So, which post am I over reacting? The being loved, or the bandwagon comment?

You also say that i use a hyperbole, but again fail to specify where.

[BloodCovenent]

Looker, i do not understand what you are trying to say here.... the only line that made sense to me was regarding Plat's vote on you.

[BloodCovenent]

Bekkatha
CJMiller
DIDO
Empking
falkomagno
looker
Sando
Scott Brosius
Wiirdo


Ok, i think we need some activity from these players.

[BloodCovenent]

DIDO has requested a replacement i believe.

I do not know why people suspect Looker. S/he hasnt been online a lot for me to judge.

yea, i forgot about dido, and Looker just posted something, but it seemed like nonsense to me, i didn't understand it at all.

[BloodCovenent]

we should get prods sent out?

I concur.

[BloodCovenent]

Does anyone besides me find this post to be fishing at all?

I'm not sure what you think CB was fishing for....

a soft claim.

[BloodCovenent]

whaha? it should be? And bandwagon much?

Calling a 2nd vote on someone a bandwagon...usually bandwagons in the scummy sense is when someone is pushing a lynch.

Sure...... Way to count...?

Criticizing the vote without actually providing any actual content reason.

Oh, but I did, and the vote count proves it as well. Here.

And now, to Monkies post, i practically have to defend myself, otherwise i look like a loser.

Defending yourself doesn't make you scummy. Defending yourself poorly does. Usually only scum are afraid to defend themselves.

Have I ever been afraid to defend myself, no. I am still defending myself to this point, doesn't that make this small argument regarding defense a null-tell for this scenario? I will always do my best to defend myself.

Maybe I just like to post a lot, and have a lot on my mind regarding this game, wanting it to pick up and such.

I didn't think the game was slow, so this is poor reasoning.

So, we're allowed to base the game on your presumptions, rather than anyone else's?

You're book of three months?

Arguing that someone doesn't have a right to a theory opinion based on their signup date.

You edited my post, the next line basically said that I disagreed with it in crude text.

I think that CjMiller, and MonkeyMan are both acting scummy.

Coincidentally, two people that have attacked him.

because you had a flawed argument, and CJ was jumping on pretty much every wagon presented.

Kise.... just stop posting.... please.

First he says he wants things to "pick up", then he asks someone to not post? You can't pick and choose.

Did you disregard where we already talked about this? I do not like his play style. That's all. It's like playing with mastin, some hate it, and some love it.

you can't base your reasoning on my personality, which you don't even know, because you don't have real interactions with me in the real world.

Basically saying that it's up to him which of his statements are allowed to be attacked and what's not.

I said how that original statement, which i believe my quote is referring to the "me being loved," statement, it was a real life reference, which i think you are trying to deny.

how exactly was i OMGUS?

Pretty obvious to me.

Sorry, I don't follow, calling you out for suspicion, based on your faulty argument is just really OMGUS, [sarcasm] sorry.[/sarcasm]

But i didn't have a problem until you started taking my quote out of context.

I didn't take anything out of context, merely made a sound logical

leap.

If he "likes to be loved" and didn't argue when I said he should be more concerned with not looking scummy, then he's not worried about being pro-town.

Looks like to me, that you (almost, somewhat, kind of) admit to stretching your case against me. It's all based on making an assumption that you have no real knowledge of.

But that was based on my personality, not my mafia play. Its a null tell.

People often change their "personality" based on their alignment, and I don't think it's appropriate for someone who's being voted on to dictate what's a tell and what isn't. Not exactly unbiased.

*Fixed, I think this is what you intended it to be*

I don't change my personality based on alignment, you can go read my games, the titles are in my wiki. See for yourself what you think. All i said in that above post, is that some non-game related information (my personality in regards to humor) shouldn't always be considered a scum, or town tell.

Stop it! Stop it! Stop it! Stop it! Stop it! Stop it! Stop it! Stop it! Stop it! Stop it! Stop it! Stop it!

What are you, 7 years old?[/quote] No, i felt as if he was rolefishing.

But what if there are two scum teams? then your reasoning is wrong.

This doesn't change the fact that townies don't know who scum are.

But it does change the fact that Scum A does not know who Scum B is.

The whole Town vs Loved argument is pretty much irrelevant to this game. I'm pretty sure we went over this whole aspect of my post, however, I could be wrong.

I think it's very relevant, and his continued insistance on dictating what's appropriate and not appropriate, relevant and irrelevant, when it comes to his own scumminess is troublesome.

And you're the one to judge?

[BloodCovenent]

Blood's Post 205 - I'm sorry, did you ask me something?

I did not understand at all, what any of these had to do with the game at the time being, and really still don't. Do you think you could expand on them still?

Reckoner's Post 176 - My apologies. I missed your vote on MM.

Reckoner's Post 177 - RVS/Initiation/Me trying to jump into the game. As far as I know, neither of us had votes on us and neither of us were voting anyone else.

Emp's Alt's Post 181 - I missed it...?

---

I'm not going to waste the time to get in a quote war with BC, I'll leave it up to others to decide who has the better arguments.

can you at least answer This one.

Vote Count #9

BloodCovenent - 4 (Bekkatha, MonkeyMan576, CJMiller, Sando)
canadianbovine - 1 (BloodCovenent)
CJMiller - 4 (DIDO, nhammen, falkomagno, lobstermania)
lobstermania - 1 (Empking)
looker - 1 (Platypus_Dude)
MonkeyMan576 - 2 (xRECKONERx, Snow White)
xRECKONERx - 2 (canadianbovine, Kise)
Wiirdo - 1 (looker)

Not Voting: Scott Brosius, Wiirdo

Deadline is July 13th.

[BloodCovenent]

As I was rereading, i found a few things.
1) Constant signs of arrogance by MM.

Don't hold your breath. I've already answered more than I should.

You OMGUS me and I'm supposed to rebuttal it? You accuse me of "changing my case", when in fact I am adding to it. It's not my fault you continue to get scummier and scummier.

It's nice how the person that's being wagoned gets to choose what is relavant and not...

Vote: MonkeyMan

So, for like the fourth time now,

please point out exactly where you saw the OMGUS

. Oh, and while you're at it, the "3 actions of scumminess", too.

I already did. Please stop acting helpless.

I'm not required to respond to every word you said. I responded to what I felt was relevant. Your first responce to being attacked is to OMGUS, so I feel that you're probably scum. But, like you said, you're not worried about looking that way, so it shouldn't bother you.

Vote: MM

I see no overeaction.

Have you actually read his posts? He admits to overreacting.

---

2)Just thought I'd answer this overlooked accusation directed towards me.

You're allowed to defend yourself, but OMGUSing is generally scummy. Not to mention admitting you don't care about acting pro-town.

i never said that I cared about acting pro-town, i said that i didn't care about looking scummy. Post 64.

Besides the fact that your taking my quote out of context. Also, you said that you, personally would not want to look scummy,

as a town player, i have nothing to hide.

If I get lynched, oh well, as long as i help the town destroy scum, and the town wins, i'll be happy.

In some games, people are called out for acting too-townie (yes a horrible argument), i would rather you take my posts for what they are. I'm trying to get a town victory, through my defense on attacks, i have somewhat been able to scum hunt in my defense.

---

3)

Personally, I'd be more worried about looking like scum than looking like a loser...

hmm.. you don't know me. I like to be loved [/quote]
I'd say BC should have said, 'I'd look like scum' instead of loser. MM did twist the words a little, but BC responded to it in a bad way.[/quote]

Just thought I'd mention this too. If I had said what you suggested, I still would have been under fire.

[BloodCovenent]

1) Constant signs of arrogance by MM.

Is arrogance a scum tell or is this ad hominem? If arrogance is a scumtell, can you post at least 1 example that proves this?

No, but attitude change can be a scum-tell.

[BloodCovenent]

Also: CB & Kise, why are your votes still on me?

Because you haven't done anything that shows me a pro-town motivation. You're doing nothing other than keeping others busy by asking them questions, so, in a sense, this tactic could be used to take the heat off of you.

All I'm saying, Reck, is that I wouldn't trust you in LyLo.

I would trust reck in lylo, i'm getting a pro-town vibe from him.

[BloodCovenent]

got home late from a baseball game, will post tomorrow, possibly

[BloodCovenent]

Wow........

[BloodCovenent]

Duh....

[BloodCovenent]

The highest votes are CJ- 4, BC- 4, MM- 2. I won't vote MM because of a slight meta.

Unvote: looker
Vote: CJMiller

Make that CJ- 5

unvote:

Vote:CjMiller

[BloodCovenent]

I forgot about that actually. Sorry. I'm lying in bed ATM on an iPod. I'd rather lynch MM, but I doubt that wagon will pick up. I find cj slightly suspcious, but MM more. I don't really have much more to add then that. I find Cj's bandwagon meta very odd, but oh well.

[BloodCovenent]

Hi everyone, I'm back and caught up.

perfect. now when your actually going to post some case against someone, or heaven forbid you vote. will you please notify us again then?

yes, i'm frustrated that people post stuff like this. It's pointless spam to protect from prods.... sigh.

[BloodCovenent]

I'm here.

Starting off with a

Vote CanadianBovine

[BloodCovenent]

....anyone alive out there?
I need to re-read now that we know CJ and ham were town - though I thought ham was easily the most town-looking out of everyone.

I am, glad to have you around still.

[BloodCovenent]

You sir, are scum. I am positive of this!

[BloodCovenent]

You sir, are scum. I am positive of this!

thank you, i was however hoping you can tell me and anyone whose still here why you are sure i am scum and voted for me.

I'll come up with a case later! haha! But it's late now, and i have to go to bed, and work tomorrow morning.

Vote: BloodCovanant

His explanation-less vote on post 294 looks pretty suspicious at this point, in hindsight. I'm sure there were some scum on the CJ bandwagon, not that CJ's behavior wasn't scummy.

Overreaction! Why are you voting me, because I'm voting him? Is he your scum buddy?

[BloodCovenent]

hmm...great.

if anyone wants to seriously discuss the game, what do you think happened last night? I think it was doctor's work.

sure, lets leave it at that. Lets not role fish this early.

[BloodCovenent]

BC: You voted someone without giving a reason and saying MM is overreacting for voting you for it. If you gave a reason D1, I doubt many people remember it.

No, nothing on day 1, but i got a guilty on CB last night when I targeted him last night. I'm sure that he is part of the night mafia team.

Ok, not to mention this post of Canadians is extremely scummy. He's role fishing. If he were town, he would take for granted that no one was killed. He is obviously concerned that no kills went through that night, not that he is able to do any twilight/day kills.. We don't need to be discussing the game set up just yet.

But, I like Reck, was always a fan of the Monkey Man lynch.

Notice how Monkey's post was in clear defense of Canadian's? MM, why are you so concerned with my vote on him? Do you really think that eight other players are going to jump on that lynch too, and we get a quick lynch within two pages? No, not likely. Can't you see that vote was more-so a pressure vote, but not so much anymore, since i'm working the night shift

[BloodCovenent]

When did BC softclaim?

Three posts ago as of now, I am a cop.

A counter claim is pointless, if you he knows what I mean.

[BloodCovenent]

When did BC softclaim?

Three posts ago as of now, I am a cop.

A counter claim is pointless, if

you

he knows what I mean.

EBWOP:
Fixed.

[BloodCovenent]

i was in fact not role fishing, and i question your sanity.

why was the vote a pressure vote, if you were "working the night shift"

You would question my sanity. There is nothing at all in my PM that hints at that. Although, I doubt that there would be insane cops in this game. However, if we lynch you, and you miraculously flip town, then we can bring inanity into discussion, until then, it's not worth discussing. This isn't a B-mod game.

as for your last line, you wouldn't understand

[BloodCovenent]

I didn't even want a CJ lynch, i was pushing for you for most of day one.

If CJ was scum, it wouldn't look so suspicious, but with him flipping town, you're my prime suspect at this point.

What does this even mean? I always start off the next day with a vote in my first post.

I already shared my results. why are you defending him?

[BloodCovenent]

I'm not defending anyone. But just because you claim cop doesn't make the person you are attacking known scum. You could be an insane or paranoid cop, or you could be scum fakeclaiming.[/quote]

You know the best way for us to find out? And no, i am not scum, and i am not fake-claiming.

[BloodCovenent]

I'm probably not a paranoid cop.
---

Paranoid Cop:

always gets "guilty" results (rare in games with a Godfather, for obvious reasons)
---

Although, an insane cop maybe, but I doubt it. Lets lynch CB, and we shall find out.

[BloodCovenent]

I'm not defending anyone. But just because you claim cop doesn't make the person you are attacking known scum. You could be an insane or paranoid cop, or you could be scum fakeclaiming.

Also This ^ = Circumstantial Ad Hominem

And you are defending him, basically saying that I am lying. Good luck, and good night.

[BloodCovenent]

I'm probably not a paranoid cop.
---

Paranoid Cop:

always gets "guilty" results (rare in games with a Godfather, for obvious reasons)
---

Although, an insane cop maybe, but I doubt it. Lets lynch CB, and we shall find out.

your last sentence is very...strong. not the right word, but you seem to be trying to make yourself seem very high and mighty because you claim to be a cop who caught scum, and i want everyone to note this.

do you really want to quicklynch someone on day 2, when there are in fact 2 scum teams?

if

im town and two more town players are gone by day 3... town will be seriously wounded.

great word choice. do you have doubts that you're town? Besides, this last sentence of yours almost sounds like an ultimatum.

I'm not trying to act like a god, i just know that I caught scum, which happens to be you, and of course you don't want to be lynched, so you want to make me look like i have no creditability. I understand that. But the best way for us to find out if i'm insane or not, is to lynch you.

[BloodCovenent]

your point? haha. Just got home from some late night Age of Empires 2. Totally awesome.

[BloodCovenent]

I'm sure you'll agree that someone who's been playing all through the game will remmeber every detail better than someone who joins halfway through and skims through the pages.

not true. We've been off of this game for what... almost two weeks?

[BloodCovenent]

your point? haha. Just got home from some late night Age of Empires 2. Totally awesome.

i was just saying, its something i've noticed playing with you. at least on this day.

haha, well, at least we're getting

some

dialogue in this game.

[BloodCovenent]

BC: Spent a good deal of the day defending himself, but the entire circular thing with MM's case against him was more a flaw in MM's focus than his own. Other than being stuck there, nothing really stuck out to me as being scummy, though

I'd certainly think that either BC or MM was scum

since they managed to get stuck in that argument for so long.

BC seems town to me

, though, especially since the better part of the argument against him consisted of the defense focus thing, and since he was able to get away from that argument a few times. I'm quite inclined to believe his cop claim between his play and CB's, but I am given to wonder why he jumped to claim so quickly instead of trying to get another investigation. So, I'll ask: Why now and not later? (Not saying it's necessarily a bad idea, I just want to why.)

MM: I don't like that entire thing that happened with BC. It was distracting, and ate up a lot of the day with running around in circles. That thing seemed more to me that MM wouldn't let it go than BC keeping it going

. Not enough for me to heavily suspect him

, but he was pushing that very heavily on the littlest points. Seemed like tunneling and misrepresentation, so I'm keeping my eye on him. He also seemed a bit too sure of himself throughout the day for my liking.

At the moment, again, I'm okay with a CB, MM, or

BC vote,

Explain all the bolded please.

[BloodCovenent]

All of you that are weary of Empking, please don't be. I am getting extremely pro-town vibes from him. His playstyle is just different, but i think that it is effective.

Also, all of you that are questioning my sanity, or have problems with someone/us bringing up lynching CB to find out my sanity, that is the only way for us to truly know. When we lynch him, if he flips town, then I just have to adjust my investigations, but when he flips scum, we'll be alright.

As for a counter claim, i don't think there will be one, if there a counter-claim, it will most likely be scum. I can divulge more details of my role, come day three.

And as for me claiming so early. I just have faith. That's all.

[BloodCovenent]

i was sure that he was an insanity ridden cop, but late last night i had notice he had seemed to want to get me lynched asap. Then today when i woke up, he posted about how he's hiding his flavor, then i put all the pieces together.

where did I say that I wanted to lynch you asap? I'm fine with holding out the day a little bit longer, but i think CB is the best lynch for today.

@BC: Just because you're cop doesn't mean you can start telling people who to be wary of and who to treat as town. Don't get big-headed.

I'm not trying to, sorry.

you also want to lynch me fast, stating "its the only way to find out a lot of things"

and you're also holding out on us on flavor until after im dead.

in short:

vote: BloodCovenant

When did I every say that I wanted a quick lynch? Never on day two. I just said that I received a guilty on you.

I'm holding flavor until it is necessary for me to reveal it.

Oh, I meant to ask this earlier, but I forgot it. You said you weren't likely to be paranoid, but I missed a mention of the presence of a godfather here. Is that a standard that dumbnewb here is yet to be acquainted with, or did I not read the rules thoroughly or something? DX

Crap. I'm getting my games mixed up.

Extremely pro-town post from Platypus right here.

As for thoughts of me fake-claiming. It would be suicidal for me as scum to claim cop, 1) this early in the game, 2) accusing someone of a guilty, and 3) the probability of a counter claim is extremely high, for more than one reason.

1- I claimed early day 1, it's not like I waited until I was at L-1. Scum wouldn't claim this early.
2 - I have an anti-town result on someone. If I were scum, and I said that I had a guilty on someone, it would be suicidal for me as well. I should have claimed cop, and claimed an innocent on someone. If I had claimed guilty on a town player, i would be a policy lynch on day 3.
3 - Three is self explanatory.

It would be extremely suicidal for me, as scum to claim cop, this early in the day.

[BloodCovenent]

Lets lynch CB, and we shall find out.

This looks a lot like you're asking for a quicklynch BC.

You're taking my post out of context. This was about us referring to my sanity. Not specifically wanting a quick lynch, as I've said before.

very improbable ties: BC and MM, me and myself
appears town: bekk, SW, nhamm, CJ, ipeanut
appears scummy: BC, MM, Sando, reckoner, platypus
is the greatest person alive: me

and to finish it off...

vote: canadianbovine

so wait? Am i appearing scummy? or do you mean CB? because i could have sworn two paragraphs earlier you believed my claim.

lol@saber calling me scummy with no support.

lol yea.

[BloodCovenent]

Vote: MonkeyMan

Always liked the MM lynch over CJM.

Care to state the reason you want to lynch MM? You seem to be hopping around with your vote...

Both Reck and I had cases on him day 1. If you don't remember those, I understand.

[BloodCovenent]

A little premature there BM. Lol!

[BloodCovenent]

It's cool. Welcome to the game.

[BloodCovenent]

I have to agree with BM here, a claimed cop that gets a guilty on player A, and the town lynches player A, but player A flips town, it would be a policy lynch for me to get that claimed cop. So no, i don't blame BM, and I agree with him whole heartily.

I mean, there are things about my role, that I cannot divulge until it's necessary, unless needed. and now is not the appropriate time.

[BloodCovenent]

BC since my lynch will probably happen today, i just want to know, what made you choose to investigate me?

I had town vibes from several other players, I had an anti-town vibe from Monkey man, and i would have probably pursued that much more today, if I hadn't received a guilty. I still might pressure him a little bit, depending on how long we are going to draw this day out. I didn't really have a read on you throughout day one, because I was focused on other players, and i was under attack as well. I picked you mostly because I didn't have a read on you. It's usually how I choose targets whenever I have this type of role.

[BloodCovenent]

I have to agree with BM here, a claimed cop that gets a guilty on player A, and the town lynches player A, but player A flips town, it would be a policy lynch for me to get that claimed cop. So no, i don't blame BM, and I agree with him whole heartily.

I mean, there are things about my role, that I cannot divulge until it's necessary, unless needed. and now is not the appropriate time.

BC since my lynch will probably happen today, i just want to know, what made you choose to investigate me?

I'm getting a feeling that you are comfortable with being lynched today, why?

[BloodCovenent]

Maybe BC didnt run it by CB? I wouldnt put that past him.

I consider BC to the stronger player, having seen him play pretty well before. Hence, if i was advising their scumteam, i'd say he had a better chance of lasting the course. Thats not to underestimate CB ofc

Will look at 112 for you in a sec.

BM

I've always wanted to do some sort of gambit like that

But only in a newbie game, not a game with such experienced players, that would be suicide.

[BloodCovenent]

CB, how would you prove it?

[BloodCovenent]

i'll answer more questions and post after work today.

[BloodCovenent]

fingering kise as opposition scum.

I'm going to have to concur with you on this one.

[BloodCovenent]

Nope. I have no special information about Kise's role. I just find him scummy. One thing that I thought was pro-town, (just the one post) was when he mentioned IIOA. Other than that, well... you know. But actually, i would have really liked to hear more from him before the day was over.

[BloodCovenent]

EBWOP:

I guess i'm not fingering him specifically as scum, just FoS'ing him. Because I'm not certain of it, and maybe I just don't like his play style.

and dang... we are always on at the same time.

[BloodCovenent]

im night scum btw, thats why i was congratulating the doctor.

who did you target?

[BloodCovenent]

i'm suspicious that he was gone past his V/LA, picked up a prod, then posted the L-1 vote. didnt say a whole bunch else.

I'm suspicious that he did the L-1 vote, but i just wish he gave more information. so yea, i'm suspicious for the same reason.

Nah, I'm East coast. 2am, what fun. Got owned in a game of Age of Empires 2, the Conquerors.

[BloodCovenent]

MonkeyMan and Kise for tomorrow. yesh.

[BloodCovenent]

Nope. I have no special information about Kise's role. I just find him scummy. One thing that I thought was pro-town, (just the one post) was when he mentioned IIOA. Other than that, well... you know. But actually, i would have really liked to hear more from him before the day was over.

Haha, i remember that post. Ironically, i found it scummy. Because what he cited as IIOA, was in fact,

NOT

IIOA. xD

What else have you got on him?

Cept the WIFOM of CB citing his buddy as opposing scum, in order to make us think he is not Night-Scum.

BM

I have meta on him.

He tends to be more reckless when he has a pro-town role. And much more conservative when he is scum. Mafia 95, and Kubrick are the games that I was in with him.

[BloodCovenent]

Nope. I have no special information about Kise's role. I just find him scummy. One thing that I thought was pro-town, (just the one post) was when he mentioned IIOA. Other than that, well... you know. But actually, i would have really liked to hear more from him before the day was over.

Haha, i remember that post. Ironically, i found it scummy. Because what he cited as IIOA, was in fact,

NOT

IIOA. xD


Cept the WIFOM of CB citing his buddy as opposing scum, in order to make us think he is not Night-Scum.

BM

I'll re read that, That was just from memory, regarding the IIOA.

[BloodCovenent]

Ok, fair enough. We can look at him tomorrow, if we're still around. But, Bekkatha first, ok?

BM

Lord willing.

I'll re-read he(r) too.

[BloodCovenent]

wasn't sure, I don't always pay attention to those details.

[BloodCovenent]

Didn't Kise just post?

[BloodCovenent]

Yea, Kise just posted.

[BloodCovenent]

whoops... don't know why I thought I saw him.

[forgiveness please]

[BloodCovenent]

where were we?

Vote: Kise

You should now full-claim.

BM

Agreed^

Kise, why do you think there is a JOAT?

Vote: Kise

I got an innocent on Bekk, But that really means nothing.

[BloodCovenent]

Kise, if people thought that Nham was generally pro-town, why would a town aligned JOAT vig him? It would have to be an awful town player to do so.

Why are you convinced Reck is scum Kise?

[BloodCovenent]

No, thats a useful result, because Bekkatha was one of my top suspects at the end of yesterday. I may well reread at some point, because we dont want an incredibly short day, but i wholeheartedly suspect Kise will be the lynch.

BM

No it's not. Bekk could still be scum.

Well, anyways, not sure how much longer i'll be on Today, I worked late last night, and need some sleep. I am also working on filming a movie tonight, and working tomorrow night as well. I'll try to be on when I can :X

[BloodCovenent]

No, thats a useful result, because Bekkatha was one of my top suspects at the end of yesterday. I may well reread at some point, because we dont want an incredibly short day, but i wholeheartedly suspect Kise will be the lynch.

BM

No it's not. Bekk could still be scum.

Oh, i see what you mean. Well, that being the case, you cant expect any town result to be particularly valuable.

BM

from me in specific.

Yea, I read that Bekk argument of yours yesterday, and you're right. Confusion is scummy.

and yea, re-reading that IIOA argument against Nham, you're right. It wasn't even IIOA. Kise just OMGUS FoS'd him I'd say. I guess I just took Kise's word for it at the time.

[BloodCovenent]

you'd prefer a bike with 2 seats?

Also, you should totally nom me for the title: "Always right" lmao.

Even so, Bekk drops down a little now.

BM

Let's see what the lynch results are before I do that.

[BloodCovenent]

I guess i was presuming that the "Always right" is for lynching, not general conversation and mafia discussion in game XD

[BloodCovenent]

A jack of all trades is a role that has several different night actions, but can only use one per night, and only use that one, once.

with this last night, there is absolutely not a JOAT.

[BloodCovenent]

@Platy - There is no other scum role that would get an innocent if investigated. Only other possibility for Bekk to be non-GF-scum would be if a Bus Driver role swapped her and a townie. However, that is quiiiiiite a stretch of the imagination.

Also, Plat, it wasn't originally saber who asked me to claim -->

where were we?

Vote: Kise

You should now full-claim.

BM

And another question for you BC: Is your ability a night or day action?

BloodCovenent

- I strongly suggest you do not answer this question. Also, any further discussion of BC's claim will be deemed scummy.

BM

wasn't planning on it. Going to give a

Tsk Tsk

to Kise.

I agree with post 562, BM.

Why are you not voting for Scott Brosius?

Are you always this jumpy? o_O

Lol, thats an odd question. I simply want to make some progress with the day. And i get really irritated by towns who have no sense of MOMENTUM. So, i'll ask again. Why arent you voting for Scott?

BM

It's one thing to prevent stalled discussion, but why do you want this day to go so fast? Yesterday went relatively fast since we had BC reveal a guilty. But you hop on Kise urge people to vote him and question why people aren't, then hope on me and question why people aren't. Maybe it's your strategy to elicit reactions,

but rushing votes won't help.

You sir, are wrong.

Unvote: Vote: Scott Brosius

I like this.

Do you remember Kubrick? I am Fearless!!

Can I have a summary of the game up to now?

No. Read it yourself. Asking for crap like this, all you will get in return is biased one sided crap. Do it yourself.

I freaking don't like this.

[BloodCovenent]

Unvote:
Vote: Kise

kise, Stop rolefishing on my role/actions. They will be revealed in time. When it is necessary.

[BloodCovenent]

yep, Kise is Godfather, and LobsterMania is quite possibly his Goon.

BM

where do you get lobster?

[BloodCovenent]

I don't like how Lobster is saying that he believes my claim, but thinks i'm dayscum.

And why would he give his partner away?

[BloodCovenent]

yep, Kise is Godfather, and LobsterMania is quite possibly his Goon.

BM

How do you know its Godfather?

Have you been reading the thread at all?

[BloodCovenent]

no, i would be asking the same question if I wasn't reading the thread.

[BloodCovenent]

Yes, i did not answer the rolefishing question for a couple fairly obvious reasons. You think that's scummy?

Since when is asking if the Godfather is a basic role or asking if there are other roles that make the cop say inno, rolefishing?

him specifically trying to find more information about a claimed cop, is scummy.

[BloodCovenent]

Consider this: You got a guilty on a person. This person questions the lack of night kill. He role fishes docs. "the bells go off"

i voted him, and called him scum before his rolefishing. It could just be a confused or eccentric townie.

[BloodCovenent]

Oh ok (I only based my argument on that one post). Then Kise's argument has more merit.

which post of Kise? Post number?

[BloodCovenent]

i got a guilty on CB last night when I targeted him last night. I'm sure that he is part of the

night mafia team

.

Congratulations. You are officially the 1st person here to distinguish that there is a night mafia... I wonder how you knew there are 2 factions, rather than considering nhammen possibly died at the hands of an indepent killing-role like I did.(?)

Why do we have a 48 hour wait period before night? Do games normally have that waiting period... before night?

Disclaimer: I will be posting the Quicktopic threads after the game is over. If anybody has a problem with that, please contact me via PM.

Noted that it is bolded. and threads is plaural.

[BloodCovenent]

EBWOP:

And that it was at the end of the rules, meaning that it was added most likely, not just a generic rule set.

[BloodCovenent]

Another EBWOP:

i got a guilty on CB last night when I targeted him last night. I'm sure that he is part of the

night mafia team

.

Congratulations. You are officially the 1st person here to distinguish that there is a night mafia... I wonder how you knew there are 2 factions, rather than considering nhammen possibly died at the hands of an indepent killing-role like I did.(?)

Why do we have a 48 hour wait period before night? Do games normally have that waiting period... before night?

Fixing this, with this quote.

WARNING: DEADLINE LYNCH COUNT REACHED

WANRING: CJMILLER HAS BEEN LYNCHED.

ANY DAY ACTIONS MUST BE SENT ASAP.

NIGHT ACTIONS WILL BE PROCESSED AS SOON AS NIGHT IS REACHED.

why is this Kise?

[BloodCovenent]

I was referencing Kise's 583 with his quote on your 343 (so I actually only based my statement on those two posts with what I gather from the recent discussion.)

(Status: Still behind.)

I think you have your post numbers mixed up. This is 343 of mine, and Kise's 583.

@Kise, Why are you trying to persuade us that there is only one killing faction?

[BloodCovenent]

Additionally, the first thing you do (after my post) is come in and talk to everyone else but me, and they posted after me... And then you don't even explain why you

initially

believed there to be two mafias. What I asked is why you thought there was two mafias whenever you claimed CB was night mafia.

Another EBWOP:

WARNING: DEADLINE LYNCH COUNT REACHED

WANRING: CJMILLER HAS BEEN LYNCHED.

ANY DAY ACTIONS MUST BE SENT ASAP.

NIGHT ACTIONS WILL BE PROCESSED AS SOON AS NIGHT IS REACHED.

why is this Kise?

You made this post^ a whole THIRTY MINUTES after your original answer to my question. Wow, you're scrapping for resources. BC, don't bullshit me into thinking that you knew of two mafia teams based on what Seraphim said. If that was the case, why not referrence that in your FIRST reply instead of having to EBWOP? Scrapping....

That's because my computer froze and i went on to doing laundry and eating lunch, whether you believe, whatever.

Fine, I'll paraphrase my full PM.

I am a cop, but I can only detect night mafia. This is how I was 100% certain that there are two scum teams. I have breadcrumbed in these posts, and basically anytime where the words night seemed out of place. specifically in Kise's posts as well.

I'm not defending anyone. But just because you claim cop doesn't make the person you are attacking known scum. You could be an insane or paranoid cop, or you could be scum fakeclaiming.

Also This ^ = Circumstantial Ad Hominem

And you are defending him, basically saying that I am lying.

Good luck, and good night.

BC: You voted someone without giving a reason and saying MM is overreacting for voting you for it. If you gave a reason D1, I doubt many people remember it.

No, nothing on day 1, but i got a guilty on CB

last night when I targeted him last night. I'm sure that he is part of the night mafia team.

Ok, not to mention this post of Canadians is extremely scummy. He's role fishing. If he were town, he would take for granted that no one was killed. He is obviously concerned that no kills went through that night,

not that he is able to do any twilight/day kills..

We don't need to be discussing the game set up just yet.

But, I like Reck, was always a fan of the Monkey Man lynch.

Notice how Monkey's post was in clear defense of Canadian's? MM, why are you so concerned with my vote on him? Do you really think that eight other players are going to jump on that lynch too, and we get a quick lynch within two pages? No, not likely. Can't you see that vote was more-so a pressure vote, but not so much anymore,

since i'm working the night shift

-I hint that CB is night mafia in this post as well, showing that I can only detect night mafia.

I can only detect night mafia. Therefore, If day scum believe me, they actually want me around, if they want to win. They shouldn't want to lynch me. After all of the night scum are dead, I just become a basic VT role.

[BloodCovenent]

No, the Age of Empires wasn't really a breadcrumb.

[BloodCovenent]

Oh, for some reason, i thought that AtE was referring to Age of Empires some how.

But now I see it's Appeal to Emotion. My fault.

---

Vote Count:

Scott Brosius(1)

- Sando

saberwolf(2)

- Platypus_Dude, Kise

Kise(4)

- Battle Mage, BloodCovenent, DTMaster, Bekkatha

Not Voting(6)

- MafiaSSK, iPeanut, lobstermania, xRECKONERx, saberwolf, Scott Brosius

Deadline:

24/8/09 15:45 Central Time

7 to Lynch
4 to Lynch at deadline

[BloodCovenent]

I think BC's claim is a bit farfetched and wonder why he didn't come forward originally. The hints you left don't really distinguish whether you are a town cop or mafia cop. If you are a town cop with the role you claim, then yes you would obviously know that any guilty would be night scum. However, if you were day mafia cop, you would ALSO know that any guilty you got would be night scum. So it proves nothing either way. Why didn't you come forward with this information earlier? I am leaning towards believing Kise over BC.

How is it far fetched? Note that we are playing with basic Mafia roles, Not any of the advanced roles. No where in the Cop wiki does it show that there are mafia cops. Maybe it is my lack of experience, but I am willing to bet that there are not mafia cops that often, let alone in a new york game.

Scott, why should I have claimed fully? All you needed to know, was that I got an guilty on someone, therefore, we lynch guilty player.

If you are a town cop with the role you claim, then yes you would obviously know that any guilty would be night scum. However, if you were day mafia cop, you would ALSO know that any guilty you got would be night scum

Wow, you really are a blind sheep.
Kise was the only one that brought up the idea of mafia cop vs town cop. When you claim cop, do you always state, "I am a town cop, not a mafia cop?" No, why? Because it's bullshit.

Also, why would scum cop claim that early?



When I flip town, who will you three, MaffiaSSK, Scott, and Kise go for?

Please note that Kise was the only one that wanted my lynch, and pulled so many strings to make a case on me, clearly he wants me lynched.

[BloodCovenent]

I'm assuming that we're not falling into bastard-mod territory here, of course.

we are not, have not, and will never be in B-mod territory under these forums/ this game.

[BloodCovenent]

I was really surprised to see that Reck thought Kise's case was compelling, that most certainly disturbed me. I thought he was Obv town, but not any more.

[BloodCovenent]

Excuse me, BC:

It makes sense. You knew information you shouldn't have, and also, if you could only investigate one type of Mafia, why did this information not come forward way earlier instead of now? Like Scott said: Day Mafia cop could be the same thing as what you've claimed. You either get a guilty on a Night Mafia, or a innocent on town.

And iPeanut is right: if you're really a town-aligned cop with the power to only find Night mafia, then that makes innocent results totally useless.

Not true, I think my crumbs were obvious enough that i could not participate in any day actions, I think that those who needed to know, found out shortly after I posted, and kept it to themselves, as they should have. Except Kise as of now, he's trying to paint me as day scum, so that he could clear himself, If I were to flip scum. But me flipping town, upon lynch guarantee's his death tomorrow, if I am lynched. Kise really wants me lynched. I think he's scared.

And, regarding what Peanut said, about my innocent results are useless, I pretty much said that same thing at the beginning of this day.

[BloodCovenent]

while that is true sando, all it would take is one courageous VT to stand up and say, no youre wrong, and we all put our votes back on kise. if kise flips VT, we lynch the accuser. That would keep all the other VT's safe. I still don't recommend this though.

I said it in Kubrick, and I'll say it again.

No, this is dumb. Why is it a bad thing to lynch a VT? I'd rather lynch a claimed VT in our situation than risk lynching a power role.

[BloodCovenent]

Sando, I never admited to rolefishing; you put words in my mouth. I said YOU were the one fishing.

Why did you need to know why I believed JOAT daykilled nhammen instead of a day-vig or SK? What info could be gathered by my reply? (2 separate questions; please treat them as such)

You're funny.

Post 545, I 'role-fished', post 535, you claimed VT. Note that I questioned your post AFTER you claimed VT? How am I trying to out a JOAT? You'd already claimed VT?

Please explain to me how I'm role-fishing a claimed VT? You still haven't answered my question afaik, you've merely deflected request for why you, AS A CLAIMED VT, thought a JOAT more likely than SK/Vig?

BTW, me questioning a claimed VTs posts is in contrast to your forcing BC to completely reveal his role, and trying to get every single VT outed.

Yep, you're scum.

I feel that Kise brought up the idea of a JOAT to specifically be able to call out others when they question him about is thoughts.

Serious HoS

regarding this topic.

[BloodCovenent]

while that is true sando, all it would take is one courageous VT to stand up and say, no youre wrong, and we all put our votes back on kise. if kise flips VT, we lynch the accuser. That would keep all the other VT's safe. I still don't recommend this though.

taking out all the VT's means that there are only PR's left. GG kise on trying to out the whole town >.>

Deleted.

[BloodCovenent]

Sando, I never admited to rolefishing; you put words in my mouth. I said YOU were the one fishing.

Why did you need to know why I believed JOAT daykilled nhammen instead of a day-vig or SK? What info could be gathered by my reply? (2 separate questions; please treat them as such)

why did you automatically think it was an indie killing role? and why would a suggested Pro-town killing role Night kill, or day kill a relatively pro-town player?

[BloodCovenent]

Hey, guys, this Kise wagon is awful. Especially Sando's putting him at L-1.

why? Whats wrong with it?

[BloodCovenent]

?
When I flip town, who will you three, MaffiaSSK, Scott, and Kise go for?

Please note that Kise was the only one that wanted my lynch, and pulled so many strings to make a case on me, clearly he wants me lynched.

Not true, I think my crumbs were obvious enough that i could not participate in any day actions, I think that those who needed to know, found out shortly after I posted, and kept it to themselves, as they should have. Except Kise as of now, he's trying to paint me as day scum, so that he could clear himself, If I were to flip scum. But me flipping town, upon lynch guarantee's his death tomorrow, if I am lynched. Kise really wants me lynched. I think he's scared.

There are no votes on you, but you keep talking about what will happen if you get lynched today. You seem panicky.

several people seamed to believe his BS case on me.

[BloodCovenent]

On Kise: The JOAT thing sits a bit odd with me, since there was no reason at that point not to think that it wasn't a day-vig or some similar role. It seems like a leap to think it's a JOAT before that, but that's not necessarily scummy, just different thought process.

Does it really make a world of a difference whether I had said day-vig & not JOAT?

Yes, it really would have.

I'm gonna

FoS Sando

right now in case I don't get a chance to post my full case against him.

You're case on him is weak. No, You didn't have a case on him at all. Until you "remembered" Him "fishing" on your thought or idea. You had no case on him at the time. It was just a weak OMGUS at the time.

I was really surprised to see that Reck thought Kise's case was compelling, that most certainly disturbed me. I thought he was Obv town, but not any more.

Dude... I know psychology pretty well. I figured out that Xyl was Godfather in our 1st game together. I'm an oddball, but if I may say so myself, my assessments (as town) are inspired by good enough evidence.

then why didn't you make it to night one in that game?

[BloodCovenent]

wow, I must of been suckered or something...everyone else simply jumped on kise even more for that...

*wonders should he put his vote back*

Put your money where your mouth is. Kise is acting very Anti-town at the moment.

[BloodCovenent]

Mafia 95 Not sure if I can remember where he "outed" the Godfather. I can't remember that exactly.

Kubrick

Kise and I were in both games.

[BloodCovenent]

No, BC, I was not baiting, if that's what you mean.

Thing is, you have the balls to claim cop, but for some reason you withheld extra info on your role PM. Maybe it benefits mafia in some way; I won't voice that. But, fact is, the big mess between us could have been avoided if you didn't lie to me about how you knew about night & day mafia. You lied about the 48 hour rule and I caught that, so it only added more fuel to the fire, so to speak. Trust me, I'm off your back for now. The new info you gave has made me more believing you could be town cop. However, your defense of Sando does not go unseen.

To answer your question about why a pro-town role would kill nhammen, who some thought of as generally pro-town: Well, like I said before, I sure as hell suspected him to be scum. I automatically thought it was an indie-killing role because I did not expect 2 mafia factions.

As for why I didn't make it to night 1 in our other game, it's simple... Because Lamont Cranston nitpicked & tunneled the shit out of me and made the most genius case D1. It was still dumb to lynch an uncountered cop claim, but a win is a win.

Did you not see this post of mine!!!--->

Another EBWOP:

i got a guilty on CB last night when I targeted him last night. I'm sure that he is part of the

night mafia team

.

Congratulations. You are officially the 1st person here to distinguish that there is a night mafia... I wonder how you knew there are 2 factions, rather than considering nhammen possibly died at the hands of an indepent killing-role like I did.(?)

Why do we have a 48 hour wait period before night? Do games normally have that waiting period... before night?

Fixing this, with this quote.

WARNING: DEADLINE LYNCH COUNT REACHED

WANRING: CJMILLER HAS BEEN LYNCHED.

ANY DAY ACTIONS MUST BE SENT ASAP.

NIGHT ACTIONS WILL BE PROCESSED AS SOON AS NIGHT IS REACHED.

why is this Kise?

you were the ONLY one who suspected an indie killing role.

[BloodCovenent]

BTW, I got lynched in Kubrick mafia due to guilty result, not scummy behavior.

Just thought I'd bring it up too.

I've noted that since I've mentioned my meta on you, you've swapped playing styles.

[BloodCovenent]

Lol^. I don't have a playstyle. The only guarantee from me is that I'm a bit playful, if not off the wall.

Regarding Post 705 - The fact doesn't change that your FIRST answer to my question (30 minutes before the EBWOP) is because you reasoned that there was a 48 hour waiting period before night phase. A lie is a lie.

I'm not going to turn the other cheek just because you ask me why Seraph told everyone to send in Day Actions.

That was a 2nd reply, not the original answer as to why you believed in night & day mafias.

regardless if it wasn't 48 hours, there was still a waiting period, wasn't there? So what if it was 30 minutes apart, i told you why, which i think you either refused to believe, or missed it. My computer froze, and I was lazy, so i went and got food, came back and took a while to fix the computer. Believe it if you want.

and as to the bolded, why not?

[BloodCovenent]

you were the ONLY one who suspected an indie killing role.

I still won't name-drop, but no, I was not the only one. Someone else whole-heartedly said it was a day-vig, and told them not to expose themselves, but that they need to be careful when doing day-vig-kills.

why won't you name drop? Can you at least link the post >.>

I'm lazy.

[BloodCovenent]

Because day-vig & JOAT have day actions, yeah? I will repeat -- I was surprised to discover there were day & night scum teams. One of the last things I would have expected.

And after reconsidering, I will name-drop... For some reason people are coming down my throat (no homo) when I was not the 1st nor only person talking about an indie killer. -->

I'd like to give my input on the day-vig like person. First off, do not claim. I'm not sure when a good time for you to claim is, but nhammen was the wrong person, IMO. If you could give your reasoning whenever you claim, I'd appreciate it.

.....................

can I get a page number/link?

[BloodCovenent]

I think that was actually one of the posts where I figured he was town.

[BloodCovenent]

Yes Sando, a cop can be scum. One just flipped in an ongoing game of mine. But, by making JOAT mafia-aligned, it's crippling to town due to giving scum so many abilities to work with.

Sando, what is this information you thought I knew regarding a JOAT?

Then that would mean that we might have two docs against one mafia team?

[BloodCovenent]

saberwolf, don't bullshit a bullshitter. I can tell you're hungry for this lynch and you seem to be ignoring posts deliberately.

The Platy post can be seen in Posts 711 & 713. He started D2 off by believing nhammen was killed by day-vig. He sounds convincing enough.

Sando, a mafia cop is also known as rolecop. They target a player and the mod retrieves them that player's full role PM. This will help them identify town roles, such as VTs, docs, etc.

I can tell that is a Role Models reference.... but it doesn't sit right.

[BloodCovenent]

Who wanted BC dead yesterday? CB who was scum, and MM who was town? Where are these four people? Why are you defending BM?

scott, you are so dense. literally, within 24 hours ago, not the last day, there were at least four people that would have approved of my lynch. I will link posts.

Reckoner
DTMaster Agrees that Kise's case has merit.
Scott
MafiaSSK <-- Really supports Kise. I say we string him up tomorrow.

That is a total of five players that were ready to lynch me based on Kise's case.

[BloodCovenent]

You said in your own post that you think my claim is far-fetched, thus you also say that you believe that Kise's theory makes sense, and you are tending to believe him. In his theory, I am scum, so either you think I am scum, or I am not.

I don't think that it is a huge exaggeration. Did you read SSK's post? His "thoughts being BC is

most likely scum

and

anyone attacking Kise is stupid. "

He calls me scum, and backs Kise whole heartedly. I intend on lynching, or trying to lynch people that I am certain is scum. Wouldn't SSK do the same?

As to why am I defending BM? Because he is finding scum.

And you are not.

[BloodCovenent]

Unvote: Kise
Vote: MafiaSSK

I think this one may be more valuable. If you are Town SSK, we will surely string Kise up tomorrow.

[BloodCovenent]

I trust BM. Btw... where is BM? I keep thinking that this game is in deadline... But it's not.

[BloodCovenent]

And yet... the man you said you investigated just fucking destroyed your fakeclaim.

Hey, guys, can we lynch SSK now? Kthx.

But I'm a cop. You guys can't lynch me!

@SSK
AtE much?

[BloodCovenent]

And yet... the man you said you investigated just fucking destroyed your fakeclaim.

Hey, guys, can we lynch SSK now? Kthx.

But I'm a cop.

You guys can't lynch me!

@SSK
AtE much?

Again, how?

We "

Can't lynch you

," because your a claimed cop. thats an appeal to emotion, i believe.

Question: would a miller actually know he's a miller? I thought a miller appeared as townie to himself.

some games they give out the actual role name.

[BloodCovenent]

I got an innocent, it doesn't matter who it was.

But, I am going to start off a

vote: saberwolf

[BloodCovenent]

I agree with BloodCovenent. My suspicion today starts with saberwolf after MafiaSSK's "Neutral" result on him in Post # 794....

FoS: saberwolf

What the crap? You're going to go with a scum player that fake-claimed? And you're going to assume that he was correct in his assumptions?

Unvote:
Vote: Lobstermania

[BloodCovenent]

I got an innocent, it doesn't matter who it was.

But, I am going to start off a

vote: saberwolf

Yes it does, if you die and then we kill all the day-mafia, we know that the person you investigate is innocent.

I don't see how it can hurt town, given we know that an 'innocent' actually just means 'not night-mafia'.

I still hold my suspicions of Kise, but I'd like to see the response from Lobster regarding why the neutral 'result' is a scum-tell.

very well, it was reck.

[BloodCovenent]

So why are you voting saberwolf, BC?

I'm voting you.

[BloodCovenent]

dear god, that is going to take me a while to read up on.

I'll end up re posting it, with colors assigned to players.

[BloodCovenent]

It took me a second there... but lobster has a point. MafiaSSK basically kamikaze'd to sacrifice himself for whoever was getting the attention, it seemed. I don't like voting a claimed cop, though, so I'm going to wait for Kise.

Unvote:
Vote: xRECKONERx

[BloodCovenent]

It took me a second there... but lobster has a point. MafiaSSK basically kamikaze'd to sacrifice himself for whoever was getting the attention, it seemed. I don't like voting a claimed cop, though, so I'm going to wait for Kise.

Reck had this^^^ completely wrong. Kise "kamikaze'd" and SSK claimed cop.

[BloodCovenent]

^ Shit, yeah. I'm really getting my games confused now. This one's been going on so long I had it confused with another game I played with Kise where he claimed cop and got bandwagoned, and for some reason I had assumed that had happened in this game too.

I meant that SSK was divebombing to protect someone BY claiming cop. I want to hear from Kise, as well as just reread the whole damn topic, which my fuck up obviously means I need to do

Yea... that game was hell.

[BloodCovenent]

I agree with BloodCovenent. My suspicion today starts with saberwolf after MafiaSSK's "Neutral" result on him in Post # 794....
FoS: saberwolf

What the crap? You're going to go with a scum player that fake-claimed? And you're going to assume that he was correct in his assumptions?
Unvote:
Vote: Lobstermania

I've never heard of a cop getting a "neutral" result before. I checked the wiki but couldn't find anything about it (though perhaps I'm still missing something). "Neutral" seems like a safe cover to try and make his partner look more town. We weren't able to gain much info when CB flipped scum, so hopefully we can find some better connections between SSK and the day scum.

So why are you voting saberwolf, BC?

It was just some BS ploy for us to jump on saber. At the time I voted him, i wasn't voting based on that neutral. SSK was a goon, not a mafia cop. we shouldn't.... Screw it.... That's all Wifom.

Claim: Day Cop

Results:Saberwolf-Neutral
DTMaster-Town

These were not my choice.

you replaced in the night, you would have had a choice.

Unvote:
Vote: DTMaster

[BloodCovenent]

@BC
Can you elaborate on your vote?

Normally I would agree with you that the Town verdict would obviously link me to SSK, but it was my Day Miller CC that put the final nail through his coffin.

shit. i forgot about that.

Why didn't you claim day 1?

unvote.

[BloodCovenent]

Vote: Bekkatha

for lurking.

[BloodCovenent]

Kise/Sando is giving me a fuckin' headache.

same here.

V/LA Saturday to monday. Moving in to college. Freshman. Might have time to post, but just a precautionary. (Will also put in my siggy soon enough :X )

---

Vote Count:

Kise(4)

- Sando, Bekkatha, lobstermania, saberwolf

Sando(1)

- Kise

Bekkatha(1)

- BloodCovenent

Not Voting(4)

- iPeanut, Platypus_Dude, xRECKONERx, DTMaster

6 to Lynch
4 to Lynch at Deadline

Deadline:

2/10/09 13:35 Central Time

[BloodCovenent]

Kise Claimed VT.

[BloodCovenent]

Bekk did not get cleared.

But I would be comfortable with a lobstermania lynch today.

Unvote:
Vote: Lobstermania

Lobs, you have quietly passed along through the game giving very little content, practically none at all.

I'd rather lynch Lobster than Kise.

Btw, why are you voting Kise Lobster.

[BloodCovenent]

Players that showed up on day more than once: Reckoner, Saber
Players that showed up on night more than once: None
Players that showed up more than once between both: Reckoner, Saber, Bekk, Kise, and DTM
Players that showed up more than once on lynches: BC, Reckoner, Kise, Saber; Kise and Reckoner were on all lynches
Players that showed up more than once between all lists: Everyone

Sounds good enough to me. I will re-

Vote: Kise

. The SSK fake-claim looks like a randomly timed move of desperation. I'm currently leaning towards the idea of Kise being Day Scum Godfather, hence why SSK was the lynch....

GF's can only

be killed by a town lynch.

Reck showed up on more lists than Kise, by what you quoted.

The bolded smells like a slip to me. -That's not always the case.

[BloodCovenent]

Or trying to get kise killed. I think that kise is town. As much as I want him lynched, due to not liking his play style, i'm very certain he is town.

[BloodCovenent]

Lobsters vote was extremely opportunistic. I think we have scum here.

I expect a claim soon.

[BloodCovenent]

But how would lobster have info on the godfather, and why would he be lynching his own godfather? I'm assuming you're saying he's bussing Kise?

p.s. I'll take your scumdar here.

[BloodCovenent]

Top of the page?

[BloodCovenent]

well, if you put Plat and I voting Lobster, than it should be.

[BloodCovenent]

[quote="Kise"
........ I'm saying that

I'm

the only one who didn't know about day scum.[/quote]


Day 2, when most of us held that against you, you got pretty pissed. You found out where someone else said they didn't know about day scum. And you tried to use that against us, saying we should treat him the same. Anyways, I'm just saying this seems hypocritical.

I would feel comfortable voting for Bekk or xRECKx.

Are you going to leave Kise out of that list too?

Why beck? Why Reck? Because they rhyme?

[BloodCovenent]

I am going out of town for a party tonight, but will respond to everything on Sunday.

I also claim town.....not like that will stop you from wagoning me, lol.

I do not like this claim**, or this blatant Appeal to emotion.



**Feels like bullshit to me. Even if we were to organize a mass claim, (which we didn't) This would not be acceptable in my eyes.

--Lobs, you were L-2, what made you claim so early?

[BloodCovenent]

@Lobster
Interesting dynamic.. though I don't know why you left out Kise win the "comfortable to lynch Bekk and Rex".

I'm already voting for Kise, so I thought it would be redundant. I suppose I should have said "I am comfortable

also

lynching Bekk and xRECKx."

Also a lot of the same arguments against Bekk can be used against you (ie the lurker argument).

If you expect us to give you the benefit of the doubt, we would need to apply the same reasoning to Bekk for her play. That is poor play in general and very hypocritical right there so I dislike your reasoning for the lurking admission.

I don't remember saying I thought Bekk was scummy for lurking and low post counts. I simply said she's someone I'm suspicious of.

Since you are having troubles participating in this game, here are some questions:

What is your case on Bekk?
What is your case on Reck?

I am very unimpressed with Bekk's acknowledgment the she would rather not comment on a topic than post her feelings on it. While we both are at a "lurker status," I try to make sure and respond or comment on things that don't directly involve me.
xRECKx is an outspoken player who acts pretty irrationally. This kind of behavior makes me uncomfortable, especially since I'm one of 2 or 3 players left in the game who aren't PRs. I also don't like his omgus vote on me when I mentioned my suspicion of him.

But Reck appears more on that list then Kise.... he looks like a stronger candidate to be scum based on that alone since he was pushing for more lynches on more people.

True, but at the time I voted I felt more strongly towards Kise, considering my case and vote for him on Day Three.

957: I dislike how you narrowed it down to both Reck and myself to take on Plat's wagon. Why did you specifically address us?

Again, my bad. I was thinking of BC.

Lobster: I don't really have a case on you. I'm following my gut on this one. Why would people just jump on your wagon? Kise is/was closer to being lynched, so the only reason I would have for 'baiting' people to vote you was if I was his scumpartner trying to avert his lynch.

Are you claiming VT or just town?

However, BC and xRECKx

DID

jump on that wagon.
And I'm claiming VT. I have no special abilities other than my vote.

I won't be home until tomorrow night, but if lobster is claiming VT, lynch him. I already gave him a chance to see if he believed my paraphrasing etc. but he didn't, so he doesn't have the VT role PM.

This BC countered your proof that you were VT when he said his role PM was also divisible by the same number of words. This can't be your only case against me.

I could understand your vote because I was away for a few days without letting everyone know so it seemed as though I was lurking. But if you are going to keep your vote on me could you clarify what you think is scummy about me so I can clear up any confusion/ suspicion? And I have to agree with BC that your town claim seems AtE.

I think you're misinformed, because I'm not currently voting for you. I posted that I would be fine with you or xRECKx as the lynch if Kise was going to get let off the hook.
Also, how is my claim AtE? I'm not going to make up a PR claim.

Good job in soft claiming.

Also, if you just had a gut suspicion of bek, then why didn't you say that? You never did!

Before

you just said that you were comfortable with lynching her,

Now

you say that it's just because you were suspicious of her. Anyways, I don't buy it. Let's lynch this guy.

The last line of your claim post is an AtE.

[BloodCovenent]

yea, I think seraphim is using the same format as in another game. DD/MM/Year

[BloodCovenent]

I got an innocent on Sando. But that could still mean he's day scum. He was the one with the huge spout with Kise Right? I'd be willing to lynch him due to Kise's flip.

Also, didn't I peg Lobster as Godfather some where? You're not the only bastard that can do it kise!!!

[BloodCovenent]

shoot....

Vote: Sando

[BloodCovenent]

Players that showed up on day more than once: Reckoner, Saber
Players that showed up on night more than once: None
Players that showed up more than once between both: Reckoner, Saber, Bekk, Kise, and DTM
Players that showed up more than once on lynches: BC, Reckoner, Kise, Saber; Kise and Reckoner were on all lynches
Players that showed up more than once between all lists: Everyone

Sounds good enough to me. I will re-

Vote: Kise

. The SSK fake-claim looks like a randomly timed move of desperation. I'm currently leaning towards the idea of Kise being Day Scum Godfather, hence why SSK was the lynch....

GF's can only

be killed by a town lynch.

Reck showed up on more lists than Kise, by what you quoted.

The bolded smells like a slip to me. -That's not always the case.

Here is where I somewhat got him.

[BloodCovenent]

Here are my night investigations.

CB - Guilty

Bekk - innocent
Reck - Innocent
Sando - Innocent

That means that One of these players are night scum.

Plat
DTM - claimed day miller
Ipeanut


This is the claim order that I suspect.

Plat
IPeanut
Sando
Bekk
Reck

Anything out of that order, and i'll probably be pissed.

[BloodCovenent]

1) 3 Daymafia, 3 Nightmafia, 2 docs, 2 cops, 2 millers, 2 masons, 4 VT

I'm beginning to feel uneasy about the millers aspect. Do millers always flip scum? Or only some times?

@Mod - Can we get a prod on Bekk?

[BloodCovenent]

Ok, gotcha, I thought they always flipped scum. My bad.

[BloodCovenent]

Now we need Bekk to claim, but Bekk hasn't posted in forever. I'm still thinking there is scum in either iPeanut or Plat.

Agreed. This might take a while.

Initially there was a case against Kise because he mentioned something of a second killing role/party on day two, and people totally bit him for it. I initially thought that this was a post that labeled Plat as town in my book. But, I thought it would be common sense if player was Day role, then it would be obvious to them that another killing faction is in the game. Specifically their opposite. I figured that plat was obv town because he didn't know there were two killing factions. But he could be scum A/B without knowledge of another faction, but that in itself is, if that were true I mean, he would have to be one bad mafia player. I'm slightly leaning towards a Ipeanut lynch over a Plat lynch.

I have a feeling this game may die if we make it night again too soon, so I'm going to hold off on voting him right now. Also, iPeanut wants to give us his input.

I'd like to give my input on the day-vig like person.

First off, do not claim. I'm not sure when a good time for you to claim is, but nhammen was the wrong person, IMO. If you could give your reasoning whenever you claim, I'd appreciate it.

Who is iPeanut replacing in for?

I guess I'm just having trouble distinguishing how genuine this post was.

I'm probably not a paranoid cop.
---

Paranoid Cop:

always gets "guilty" results (rare in games with a Godfather, for obvious reasons)
---

Although, an insane cop maybe, but I doubt it. Lets lynch CB, and we shall find out.

OH!! Btw, I'm probably NOT a paranoid Cop!

[BloodCovenent]

Interesting, so we have claimed:

Night Cop
Night Doc
4 x VT
Day-Miller

One of these stands out...

As does the VT claims.

If SSK was day cop, like he had claimed, and DTM claimed day-miller.... What if DTM were night scum, and used the miller to fake-claim. Just to lynch another player. He didn't have to know if he were the real cop or not, it didn't matter to him at all. All he knew was another player gone from his scum team. Miller was also a safe claim, especially day miller. He knew I wouldn't investigate him. Because I can only investigate night mafia. Besides, a day miller.... that would be somewhat bastard modish. What if both night and day cops investigated him, it would be mayhem.

I am Pegging DTM as the last night mafia.

and Bekk and IPeanut as day scum.


@DTM - Why didn't you vote on the Kise or Lobster wagon? You didn't vote for either of them. Granted, there was a two day period from your last post, to your next one, after the lynch.. But still, the game was moving slow enough. your posts were not even two pages apart. Why didn't you vote Lobster? this was the first of three posts before the lynch. Also, you stated that you needed a vote count, before you voted. But there was one right above your post. And if you had done the math, he wasn't anywhere near a lynch.

---

I might have to scratch what I said, DTM could have been day scum planning this with SSK from the get-go. He could be day-scum, and used the miller claim as a gambit, in order to clear himself for the rest of the game.

Unvote:
Vote : DTMaster

[BloodCovenent]

I'm going to go with option two.

[BloodCovenent]

I just feel that a specific "day miller" is a safe claim. Why? Because this game set up, or speculation of, it would be odd to put a specific day aligned miller in the game. Why? What if both cops investigated. Each would get different results. Then there would be questions of sanity, they might lynch the day cop, find an innocent, then they lynch the other cop for "counter-claiming" so to say, bam, what has happened. Would have been out of two cops. Also, when DTM claimed, he did it to get (IMHO) to get SSK lynched, regardless of alignment. If SSK was truly a cop, why would DTM care? He killed a cop, and he would probably get lynched the next day, so what. He still had Lobster there, (at the time).

I think a DTM lynch is a good idea, unless we let Day mafia shoot him tonight =/

But that's probably not likely.

[BloodCovenent]

I just think it's a gamble to say DTM is scum because he claimed miller: that's pretty much playing outguess the mod.

How is it playing "out guess the mod?" I don't even know what that means.

are you saying you do not support a DTM lynch?

One of these three are night scum ->
Plat -vt claim
DTM - claimed day miller

<--- sticks out like a sore thumb.

Ipeanut -vt claim

If DTM were night scum, and SSK were truly a day cop. And SSK really did investigate DTM, SSK would receive an innocent. But, DTM figured "Hell, if he is the cop, i can at least get him killed." (IMO). Also, why didn't DTM claim miller Day 1? <-- suspicious. (or why didn't... Empking? claim miller?) Anyways, i would say a DTM lynch, or a Ipeanut Lynch. However, I am more in favor of a DTM lynch. It's crucial we get rid of the night mafia today.

[BloodCovenent]

But that also means we have day scum in there somewhere. I think I'd much rather lynch Bekk/Plat/iPeanut and have a 2/3 chance of hitting scum than lynch the claimed miller and gamble on it.

you really think we don't have a mirrored game? That there

is randomly a Day miller, but not a night miller.

2) 2 Daymafia, 1 Nightmafia, 1 doc, 1 cop, 0 masons, 2 VT
3) 2 Daymafia, 1 Nightmafia, 1 doc, 1 cop, 1 miller, 0 masons, 1 VT

I believe that our option is number 2, not number 3.

Not to mention, his whole Miller claim is all WIFOMy.

Why would we have a day miller, and not a night miller? You have failed to acknowledge why i say it would be bastardly modded if there were a day miller.

[BloodCovenent]

But that also means we have day scum in there somewhere. I think I'd much rather lynch Bekk/Plat/iPeanut and have a 2/3 chance of hitting scum than lynch the claimed miller and gamble on it.

2/3rd chance of hitting what, day scum?

[BloodCovenent]

There's no double cops or double docs, either, so why would it be weird to see a non-doubled miller?

Also, yes, 2/3 chance of hitting scum of any kind, since we know there are NOT four VTs.

You're screwing with me... right?

there was a day cop, and a night cop, a day doc, and a night doc.

Why would we only have one miller?

-saberwolf, Day Cop, imploded Day 4
-Battle Mage, Day Doc, crucified Night 3
-BloodCovenent, Claimed Night Cop, Still alive
-Sando, Claimed Night Doc, Still alive

Why would we have only one miller?

[BloodCovenent]

There's no double cops or double docs, either, so why would it be weird to see a non-doubled miller?

Also, yes, 2/3 chance of hitting scum of any kind, since we know there are NOT four VTs.

you still haven't included yourself in that scenario.

[BloodCovenent]

But that also means we have day scum in there somewhere. I think I'd much rather lynch Bekk/Plat/iPeanut and have a 2/3 chance of hitting scum than lynch the claimed miller and gamble on it.

You say that we have a 2/3rd chance of hitting scum in Plat, Ipeanut, and Bekk. What if you're lying? You didn't include yourself in that statistic. we have 3/7ths of a chance of hitting scum in general. If you take Sando, DTM and I, as the confirmed town roles, then we have a 3 out of 4 chance of hitting scum. I feel as if a slip has occurred by you Reck. You should have stated, that there is a 100 percent chance of hitting scum in that group. Because, you know you are town, amiright? If you were to take the three claims of ours for facts, that would leave four people, and three scum. You taking yourself out of the equation (considering you know that you are town) there would be 3 scum left, for 3 people to fit the roles. you should have stated, "we have a 100Pct guarantee for hitting scum, with those three people."




Granted, I think that Bekk is probably scum, but I am fairly certain that DTM is lying. And you questioning this, with poor reasoning only makes you suspicious in my eyes.

Bekk - claimed VT -possible day scum
Reck -Claimed VT - possible day scum
Sando -- Doc
Plat -Claimed VT- possible day scum
DTM - claimed day miller - possible day scum
Ipeanut -Claimed VT - possible day scum

Don't you see Reck, what you're saying is all WIFOM. everyone could be possble day scum (with the exception of Sando's claim, and Mine. btw, I believe his claim).

I take back what all that I have said about Ipeanut, he is probably town. And I had an initial gut read on Plat as Town. He hasn't really done anything for me to disregard that gut read. Based on Reck's play, I am willing to vote for Reck, Bekk, or DTM. Preferably, a DTM lynch. but Reck and Bekk are day scum.


Reckoner is scum, and must die.

Unvote:
Vote : xRECKONERx

[BloodCovenent]

Also, yes, 2/3 chance of hitting scum of any kind, since we know there are NOT four VTs.

So you're the

one

real vanilla town left then?

[BloodCovenent]

DTM as night-mafia would mean that he didn't know that the claim was faked. However, he could well have seen that it was a fake-claim and claimed miller for later in the game.

I'm more inclined to think night-mafia now though, I would have thought that a day-mafia claimed miller would get his partner to claim night-miller to match his day-miller claim.

A night-scum with no partners doesn't have that luxury.

Vote: DTMaster

He still had Godfather Lobster with him at the time.

[BloodCovenent]

There's no double cops or double docs, either, so why would it be weird to see a non-doubled miller?

Also, yes, 2/3 chance of hitting scum of any kind, since we know there are NOT four VTs.

This post just wreaks of scummy-ness. This whole game has been about two factions, and the town power roles against them. Unfortunately the day cop didn't share his findings.

[BloodCovenent]

Yes, I'm the one real VT left, I suppose. I somehow thought that the ones still alive were Day Doc and Day Cop, I guess I got confused. Way too many games going on at once.

Of course I'm not going to include myself in that scenario. I'm town. I meant 2/3 as in even if you think DTM is scum, there would still be two scum left in that setup, meaning two of those three would be scum of some sort.

No, this below scenario that you initially suggested, it looks as if you're not willing to lynch the claimed miller. As for why, I'm not really sure. It sure as hell looks like you're saying there is 2 scum in those three players. Well, I disagree. Plat and Peanut are town. Sando and I are town.

But that also means we have day scum in there somewhere. I think I'd much rather lynch Bekk/Plat/iPeanut and have a 2/3 chance of hitting scum than lynch the claimed miller and gamble on it.

^This post implies that you believe there are two day-scum in these three players. What if, maybe... you (Reck) and DTM are day scum.... and Bekk is night. Lobster could have been bussing when he was trying to push a case on her, when he was receiving heat. (Reck and DTM could have been planning it behind SSK's back, or with him. I don't think that SSK reacted much when DTM claimed miller :/ )

Yes, I'm the one real VT left, I suppose. I somehow thought that the ones still alive were Day Doc and Day Cop, I guess I got confused. Way too many games going on at once.

How many games are you playing in with day and night cops?

Of course I'm not going to include myself in that scenario. I'm town. I meant 2/3 as in even if you think DTM is scum, there would still be two scum left in that setup, meaning two of those three would be scum of some sort.

When you read my posts, I specifically listed DTM as night scum, your initial post implies that out of those three, there are two day scum left. You did not include yourself properly. It should have been lynching 2 out of the 4 VT's, your name included. Because, we theoretically have the same statistics, well from my point of view. The only other one that is legitimately cleared is Sando. Also, you specifically said that lynching DTM was a gambit, considering (from what you have been implying) you believe his claim. Meaning that there has to be two day scum specifically in that group of three. Why? How are you so certain on this? I certainly am not.

I don't know how you can say that DTM is cleared, why do you believe his claim? What makes it so valid? Now that you know we have a doubled set up.

Also, why are you dodging questions?

I know, i know, I keep changing what scum factions you players are, all I know, is you are scum, Doesn't matter what faction >.<

Short story

-Bekk is scum
-DTM is scum
-Reck is scum
--Reck needs to be lynched today, based on numerous mistakes today. Also, I think BM said he was rather scummy at one point.

[BloodCovenent]

The only way Bekk is

[night]

scum is if the night mafia has 2 godfathers. I find that incredibly unlikely. That said, it should be down to you, me, and iPeanut.

Sorry, you both were right. I was in the heat of the moment, and was tossing out ideas as they came to my head. I still think she is scum, as is the other two players that I listed.

---

Vote Count:

DTMaster(1)

- Sando

Platypus_Dude(1)

- DTMaster

xRECKONERx

- BloodCovenent

Not Voting(4)

- Platypus_Dude, xRECKONERx, Bekkatha, iPeanut

4 to Lynch
3 to Lynch at Deadline

Deadline:

19/9/09 20:40 Central Time

[BloodCovenent]

Yep, nevermind, I think DTM is definitely scum. One look at his miller claim just screams scum. I absolutely hate how he thinks because he countered the SSK cop claim, it clears him. Two scenarios:

1) SSK (day scum) was claiming cop, faked a result on DTM (night scum), and DTM saw it as a chance to take out an opposing scum member.

2) SSK (day scum) had the entire rouse set up with DTM (day scum) from the beginning so that at least ONE of them would be cleared.

Somehow, I just don't see DTM being a night miller. Unbalanced set-up galore, unless one of the VT claims just now were fake. (I mean in a sense that a town PR faked a VT claim instead of scum faking a VT claim.)

I'm pretty sure that's what I said three pages ago, and you didn't like it.

Also, your set up number one doesn't work. I gave a much better scenario in how SSK was day scum, and DTM was night scum a few pages ago.

Unvote
Vote: DTMaster

He needs to die.

[BloodCovenent]

A miller will not cause bastardization in this game, flavor text clears all.

I disagree, obviously.

2. Would you rather not have me CC with my day-miller. I protected the day cop from having to CC and stopped scum in it's track. Explain the downfalls of the CC to me then.

Not true, we never got the day cops results, at the time, the day doc was alive too. could have protected him.

3. I said I couldn't answer for Empking's actions about the claim. :< I cannot defend nor refute that but as we both know from experience not

all miller claims on day on are pro-town.

It's a shame he didn't claim for you now, isn't it?

Miller claims should be a neutral result where you become very picky with their actions. If they are scummy, then they are scummy. If they show they are townie then they are townie.

Or I could just speculate the game set up.

3. Mirrored game is just speculation at this point. We cannot disprove this or prove it

unless I die or the game ends

. But by the simplest roles, it makes sense to trust in the 2x 3 Scum teams, 2x Docs, 2x Cops, and the rest VTs. There's a lot of evidence supporting it.

What made you change your mind so fast? Down in my post, I quote you agreeing with a different set up. At the bolded, lynching you wouldn't be too bad, would it?

But things aren't always so simple since we could be dealing with a 3 and a 2 person scum team with a miller. It's speculation at this point, not fact.

Why are you speculating this, if you think the 3,3,12 set up makes more sense to you?

4. I pointed out that ipeanut was more town in my opinion then playt. Gee thanks for the lack of credit.

5. BC it's impossible for Bekk to be night scums since you got an innocent on her. It would mean there are 2 night godfathers and breaks the mirror. It means you aren't believe in the mirror setup and you are trying to throw things around at us. Stay focused man and refine your posts, you are contradicting yourself a little bit here. That's only if you believe in mirrored setups though.

Why are you trying to help me? One of the main attackers in your case? Yea, I made a mistake, that's just because I saw a small connection between you and another.

@Reck.

Why are you trying to just aim for day scum.

It doesn't matter if we hit night or day, the town only needs to hit any scum to keep playing. We of course rather have to lynch night to reduce the kills but the main objective still remains the same hit scum or day scum has a 38% chance to instant win . Think of this as lylo people.

Good point, I think I mentioned something like that earlier too.

I'm in support of the non-mirrored setup which the most likely teams are

a) 3 Daymafia, 3 Nightmafia, 2 docs, 2 cops, 1 miller, 2 masons, 5 VT



But I'm more leaning towards ipeanut's setup though since I think a 3 on 3 scum team is more likely due to the event of cross kills screwing over 2 man teams.

You're wrong DTM, kise was right in his quote, the more common scum teams are 3 and 2, as opposed to 3 and 3. Kise and I were just in Mafia 95, and there was a team of 3 scum, and a team of 2 scum. When the team of two is knocked out, there's still always the WIFOM, "There could be another player."

A day miller doesn't work >.> I thnk that i've said it plenty of times before >.>

@Playt

I can't refute a theoretical scenario. The case against me is based on the fact that I'm the only day-miller who claimed in a game where we have lots of mirrored roles. The speculated game role involved 1 of each day/night counter parts.

We cannot confirm nor deny this until the end game.

Ipeanut supports other setups which include the miller role, but we cannot prove this either.

That's why it was such a good claim, ehh?

Some Lynch Analysis

Day 1 Lynch

Vote Count:

BloodCovenent(3)

- Bekkatha,

CJMiller, Sando

canadianbovine(1)

-

Scott Brosius

CJMiller(9)

- IPeanut

DIDO,

falkomagno,

lobstermania

,

Kise,

Platypus_Dude,

BloodCovenent

, xRECKONERx,

nhammen, MonkeyMan576

lobstermania(1)

- DTMaster

Empking

Wiirdo(1)

-

Battle Mage

looker

Sando(1)

-

Snow White

Not Voting(2)

-

Wiirdo

,

canadianbovine

Day 2 lynch

Vote Count:

canadianbovine(9)

-

BloodCovenent

,

DTMaster

Empking

, xRECKONERx,

saberwolf

,

Battle Mage

,

Scott Brosius

,

Snow White

,

Kise

,

lobstermania

BloodCovenent(2)

-

MonkeyMan576

,

canadianbovine

Not Voting(6)

- Bekkatha,

falkomagno

, iPeanut, Platypus_Dude,

Sando

Day 3 Lynch

Vote Count:

saberwolf

(1)

- Platypus_Dude

Kise

(3)

- Bekkatha,

Sando

,

lobstermania

MafiaSSK(7)

-

Kise

,

BloodCovenent

, DTMaster,

saberwolf

, xRECKONERx,

Scott Brosius, Battle Mage

Not Voting(2)

-

MafiaSSK

, iPeanut

Day 4 Lynch

Vote Count:

Kise

(2)

-

Sando

,

lobstermania

lobstermania(6)

- Platypus_Dude,

BloodCovenent

, xRECKONERx,

Kise, saberwolf,

Bekkatha

Not Voting(2)

- iPeanut, DTMaster

Things that stand out.

-Reck was on every lynch.
-Reck was on the back end of the wagons for lynchs one, three and four.
-IPeanut has not been on a single wagon since he replaced in.
-Bekk voted town for every lynch excluding the Lobster lynch.
-Sando Voted town for three lynches, and did not vote on lynch 2.
-DTM/

Emp

voted CB two/three posts after I claimed i think, other than that, DTM only voted SSK lynch, but not the Lobster lynch. (yes, emp voted Lobs at the end of day 1 lynch, but that might have been bussing.


Before I did the LA, i was convinced Plat was town, but now I'm moreso fence sitting... I was sure of this one pro-town post of his from way back when, early day 2, but after the Lynch analysis, I just can't wrap my finger around it.

Anyways.... Carry on...

[BloodCovenent]

But it would be beneficial for us to kill night scum anyways. For obvious reasons.

[BloodCovenent]

But then there will be three more dead by tomorrow, and that means Night Scum would kill night doc, Day scum would either kill me, or another townie. The best bet would be for them to kill Night scum, to fulfill their win condition. And or Vice Versa. But there is no guarantee that will happen. And the likelihood of it happening is extremely slim. Crap... It would be better for us to lynch Day scum....

Unvote:

Have to get that out there. explaining in a minute.

[BloodCovenent]

Shit... I keep messing myself up...

ok... we lynch day scum. we're down seven to four players left, considering each faction hits town. that makes it 1v1v2. Either way, which ever faction doesn't get lynched, say dayscum gets lynched, then another townie is night killed, it's then 1v1, and scum auto win.

If we lynch night scum, then dayscum gets their kill, takes us from seven to 5. if we myslynch then at 2v3, it becomes 2v1, town loss. If we correctly lynch at 2v3, then it becomes 1v2 in town's favor. it would then again be lylo. The only way for town to win, is if we lynch night scum. Reck, I don't know why you were suggesting dayscum, if you did the math, you would understand that it is a bad option. And it swayed my opinion a little bit, enough to make me unvote and do the math. When you should have done it in the first place as well.

Vote: DTMaster

[BloodCovenent]

If we kill dayscum, me getting a guilty on anyone would do us no good.

[BloodCovenent]

Alright, fine. I hadn't done the math. It's 2 v 1 v 4 right now. Assuming both kill tonight and we lynch night scum, it's 1 v 1 v 2, which pretty much means scum win. Night scum it is.

GOGO GADGET DTM LYNCH

its 2 v 1 v 4 right now, yes, if we lynch night scum, that makes it 2 v 4 at the end of the day. then 2 v 3 tomorrow, and X v X depending on the kills.

[BloodCovenent]

@BC
1. Did the town know that sabre was cop? Did he claim before you? No he did not. If Sando didn't protect you then night scum would get the night cop. BM died before today and he could not have protected sabre. Note the difference in times of death. BM died at night, Sabre died during the day. We don't have 4 doctors running around here.

2. I'm showing you how weak the confirmation bias is on mirror claims. All of it is WIFOM. The only fact we have for sure is night has 3 scummies since last night there was a NK.

3. Why are you so adamant about attacking the joint quote I put out with ipeanut. You make the mirror argument against me with his theory and then attack me when I repeat it. You are contradicting yourself. If you weren't confirmed cop I would point this out as a scummy point against you.

So do you follow Kise or ipeanut's list?

4. You misrepresent me in your point in Kise. The rest of the quote I used Kise's post in the same way to represent how there is 3 and 2. You are contradicting yourself again

5. I can only claim what I am. It's just anti-town for me to claim VT when I know cop will find be guilty and force a mislynch. You can test this claim right now, its called a gamble. That's the only way you can confirm my alignment.

BC. You are suffering a case of confirmation Bias. I've been handling the situation regardless of the WIFOM argument that is used to lynch me. I cannot refute it since it's just that, all WIFOM. I'm gambling at this point as Day-miller in hopes of cross-kills to see tomorrow pass and the town can win from that and to let you know I'm still analyzing in hopes to hunt down night-scum.

In my POV either ipeanut or Playt is guilty of being night scum. That is all I can give you.


Also last comments:

1. Do you disagree with my reasoning on why I didn't vote? You brought this up when I addressed this already. I thought I was clear on this.

2. You still didn't really answer my question on why I'm wrong or why you find wrong with my statement. It's kind of hard to debate this when you say: I guess we disagree. You are ignoring the fact that flavor text of day and night play a significant role in this game.

@DTM, no.... just no... lynching day scum is not the best idea.... We cannot rely on cross kills. If we lynch Night scum now, and successfully lynch day scum the next two days, we can make it. That's the only way in my eyes.

Didn't I answer all of your questions?

1.But if Sabre had came out during the day to counter claim, BM

would

have protected him, and he could have came out to clear, or condemn players. It would certainly help us out now.

2. Correct, it's all speculation, and very well may be confirmation bias, which could be the same thing as tunneling. I've been in games where tunneling is a town tell :/ Anyways...If you're night scum, of course you don't want us to lynch you, and that's why you are hinting, more or less, suggesting that the only way to win is by lynching day scum today... but thats been proven wrong by me.... :/

3. How am I contradicting myslef? You say that, but you don't show me any proof.

Mostly going on gut now. Not really their lists.

4. Apologies?

5. I just don't see how a miller, specifically a day miller. Answer me this. What would happen if two cops, Sabre and I had investigated you, and we both came clean. Him with a guilty, and i claimed an innocent. Do you know what kind of chaos that would give off? How can you explain that? Also, we haven't had a night miller claim, making your claim even more scummy.

I think that I'm willing to take that risk.

[BloodCovenent]

As much as I didn't think I would like this hammer, and come to find that I actually don't like it at all.

I'm not really holding it against reck, but I certainly don't see it as a town tell.

Your last sentence.... I can't figure it out. it doesn't make that much sense tor me, sorry. Mind expanding?

[BloodCovenent]

I'm hammered so I'll say I'm day-scum. Everything is up to you BC.

Damnit, I was somewhat Afraid of this....

Platty tomorrow then....

Crap! We're totally screwed. Now it's a lose-lose-lose situation. You should have came clean, If I knew you were dayscum, I would NOT have been voting you.

Ps. didn't I call this gambit of yours a long time ago? Few pages back? P.S, why a miller claim?

[BloodCovenent]

Nah dude, I never contradicted myself, I never said that a 2v3v13 game is what we are playing, I just said that it is more common.

[BloodCovenent]

Plat is night scum, and Bekk is day scum, no need to investigate.

[BloodCovenent]

BC: thoughts on the no lynch? Assuming there is no cross kill tomorrow, we're gonna be at 1 v 1 v 2. Town'd have to pretty immediately no lynch to eliminate all discussion, then just sit and pray that the scum cross kill. Otherwise there's no way for town to win.

then it would just be a stale mate. if we no lynched tomorrow, up to two more town could be dead, then it would be 1 scum V 1 scum. Stalemate. We have to have a cross kill tonight if the town wants to win. And if neither scum is killed tonight, it would be impossible for a scum victory, either faction.

[BloodCovenent]

Stalemate > Loss, correct?

yes.

@BC
A stalemate is much more preferable then town victory tbh.

false..... better than a scum win...

[BloodCovenent]

@BC
You forget I'm day-scum. I'd much prefer a scum stalemate to a town victory.

I took that into consideration.

[BloodCovenent]

who won :X

Reck, you can be honest now... were you dayscum :X

[BloodCovenent]

Good. My night investigations totally got me xD

Plat was who I investigated. He wasn't night scum. Thats fo sho.

[BloodCovenent]

Nope, Plat.

Man... why are you still up this late dude?