Mafia 104 - Revenge of the Crimson King - Game!

[Wickedestjr]

unvote, vote: kise kise needs to die first, I think he's the scum PR.

How do you know that there is a scum PR in this game? Also, how do you know that there is only one scum PR? If there was more than one scum PR, then I don't think you would have said "the" scum PR.

Vote: Rayfrost

Hider? Stop rolefishing!

Why should he stop rolefishing, it looks to me like the role he was fishing for was scum? Also, this is quite hypocritical. You are asking him if he's a hider, so you are rolefishing.

1. Having a name Socrates does not make you good at logic.

Did Socrates say this was the case? Also, didn't you say Socrates had good logic?


xRx - Isn't it a bit early to be using your day vig kill?

I find something really annoying about his name. He also hasn't posted, so he is obv lurking scum.

Glork had posted. This was probably an intentional mistake to make your case look bigger. Convince me otherwise.

Man, you guys take the RVS way further than anything I've seen before.

Why not end it then?


Tarhalindur - Can you please explaiin how Cyberbob slipped?
Vaya - Are you scum?
Devestation - Is Vaya scum?
Mufasa - What is your opinion of Snow_Bunny so far?
WarWound - Have you been lurking?
Snow_Bunny - RayFrost already figured out who's scum. Don't you believe him?
Riceballtail - Was your vote for Empking serious? Do you support policy lynches?
Socrates - If you are good at logic, then wouldn't you make the game more difficult for the town if you were scum? Why would it be a bad idea to vote for you because of this?
swimmer4lyfe - Are you scum?
Glork - Is swimmer4lyfe scum?
Empking - Is Glork scum?
SolemnJ - Is Empking scum?
Merkabah - Is SolemnJ scum?
Pads - Is Merkabah scum?
Infinis - Is Pads scum?
Raivann - Is Infinis scum?

(sorry for the lack of creativity in the last few questions. I ran out of ideas for questions.)

[Wickedestjr]

Glork had posted. This was probably an intentional mistake to make your case look bigger. Convince me otherwise.

Since it was obviously such a momentous case on my RV, I would like to say that I do not care enough to convince you of anything, because I am always right! (and I also didn't notice that Glork posted when I picked out a name on the list to RV, so yes it helped my case so I thought) The fact that it is making such a stir makes me believe I am on to something. Only scum freak out over a RVS vote, and only scum would defend a player based on them freaking out over a RVS vote.

So, you are saying both me and Glork are scum? I didn't think Glork was overreacting, so could you please show me where and how, and why you think it makes him look like scum?

Where is my question Wickedestjr? You have said that you are now ending your RVS questions and getting down to business, so why am I left out here?

I had already posted something for you to respond to here;

I find something really annoying about his name. He also hasn't posted, so he is obv lurking scum.

Glork had posted. This was probably an intentional mistake to make your case look bigger. Convince me otherwise.

Wickedestjr: Are you scum?

No. How about you?

@wicked: yes! wait I mean no...oh god I always get these questions wrong

So, are you town answering the question incorrectly, or scum realizing you revealed your allignment and then changing your answer? (please answer the question carefully before you respond )

RF's post here seems overly defensive. Often if someone is overexplaining their actions it's because they have a guilty conscience. The RF/CB connection seems plausable.

I disagree. I think RF defended himself enough.

4. The reason of the person quoting me for voting me was crappy, but the game is barely beginning, so I consider it valid to respond to any points made against me rather than ignoring it. It does this thing called promoting discussion.

Then why did you ignore my vote for you?

My reasoning is hardly flimsy. For early in day one, I'd say it's pretty good,

at least to make you scummier than anyone else

, and your comments seem to confirm my hypothesis.

This kind of seems like you are purposely trying to make Rayfrost look scummy. Mostly because your reasoning shouldn't make somebody look scummy, their actions should.

Wicked, stop being a party-pooper.

If you mean trying to end the RVS, then I plan to stop doing that when we are out of the RVS.

I just think that the passion of his defence(it didn't really require the five or so sentences that he posted) wasn't equal to the level of attack.

Which lines would you have removed then? Or how would you have shortened the defense if you were in RayFrost's shoes?

MonkeyMan, how is Ray being

overly

defensive, and how does being defensive make Ray more likely to be scum?

I explained that over-defensiveness indicates guilty conscience.

I just think that the passion of his defence(it didn't really require the five or so sentences that he posted) wasn't equal to the level of attack.

ITT monkeyboy tries to convince the town that defending yourself to anything above some arbitrary extent is a scum tell.

Nice strawman.

Nice strawman.

And not referring to me by my actual name is an appeal to emotion.

How?

Monkeyman and/or Socrates is scum. I'm calling it now.

Why Socrates?

There's a difference between doing a protown move to get us out of the RVS and commenting on how the RVS sucks and not contributing. Cyber distinctly did the former.

RayFrost's overdefensiveness is noted, and his defense of "this is my style, get over it" is not good town play. We're the judge of his play. If you are aware of your actions, why are you intentionally doing something scummy? Speaks of scum trying to get away with being scummy.

And yes, it was obvious what Tar was doing, and RayFrost's defense of Cyber is noted as a subtle connection

What makes you think cyber is scum instead of lazy town? Also, what do you think of monkeyman?


Tarhalindur, are you planning on explaining that vote for swimmer?


Right now, MonkeyMan and cyberbob look the scummiest to me. MonkeyMan has made bad attacks like this before in the last game I played with him, but he seems to be doing it more this game. Also, I don't like how he said his reasoning made RayFrost scummier than everybody else.

Vote: MonkeyMan

I like the reasons brought up against Cyberbob. His comment regarding the length of the RVS is useless and looks like he is trying to appear like a townie.

I'm not suspicious of swimmer. His posts give me town vibes, and also, I like his attack of cyberbob. The only thing that really bothers me is how he avoided saying anything about MonkeyMan, but I still think he is town.

[Wickedestjr]

I agree that there could be more than one possible interpretation. I just think that given the early nature of the game, the possibility that he could be scum warrants attention. There's no one answer for when someone is overdefensive, but it CAN be a scum tell. Of course, it doesn't mean it ALWAYS is.

Thanks for saying absolutely nothing.

I'm trying, at least.

So you aren't scumhunting well?

Speaking of defending oneself, are the people who said that they are suspicious of me actually serious?

Do you think anybody claiming to suspect you would admit that they weren't serious? Also, why do you need to know this?

Like I said, I am not advocating his lynch, and recognize that he could be jumpy-town. but I like my vote at this point.

How sure are you that RayFrost is actually scum?


Sorry. I don't have enough time to catch up right now. I might have time in about 15 minutes or so, but if I don't then I won't get a chance to post until tomorrow.

Please don't post

too

much for me to catch up on.

[Wickedestjr]

I'm saying that I voted Glork as a RVS vote, and so OBVIOUSLY it wasn't a serious case. If you read the thread, you would have noticed it was my first post of the game. It is also why I refused to give you a serious response, because this should be common sense.

I was acting seriously in response to that post in an attempt to move us out of the RVS, because we were still getting out of it. Also, this is an odd attack. You were trying to pair me up with Glork as scumbuddies. Was I supposed to ignore it? Or was I supposed to respond to it jokingly? (which would have been a bad idea, considering I was trying to help get us out of the RVS.)

You possibly could be scum based on your clear overreaction to an RVS vote. I voted Glork in RVS and you and merkahbah jumped on me for that REAL fast.

Okay. Yes. I overreacted to that comment. Why does that mean I'm scum?

I am assuming you are the only one taking this seriously, so I am still wondering... why? What made you jump to defend Glork from a single RVS vote so strongly and then CONTINUE to defend him past RVS? I thought Glork was reacting fine in RVS, but now you are attaching to his leg like a leech.

I wasn't defending Glork. I was attacking you. Also, how am I "attaching to his leg like a leech". Just because I was attacking you doesn't mean I was against your reasons for attacking Glork. Maybe I agreed with the other reason you gave for your vote for Glork.

Where is my question Wickedestjr? You have said that you are now ending your RVS questions and getting down to business, so why am I left out here?

I had already posted something for you to respond to here;

I find something really annoying about his name. He also hasn't posted, so he is obv lurking scum.

Glork had posted. This was probably an intentional mistake to make your case look bigger. Convince me otherwise.

I already did answer this question, but you must not have paid attention. My first post of the game was an RVS vote, and I picked Glork. I didn't see his post, and so I said he didn't post. Either way, it was an RVS vote. The name Glork stood out to me as annoying, and so I picked it.

I know you answered the question. That is why I replied to your response. You were just asking for the question, so I brought it up again to show you that I had asked you a question.

Alright. I'll finish catching up tomorrow. I had to catch up in my other game first, but this game will probably be my first priority tomorrow.

[Wickedestjr]

Sorry for not posting yesterday. I was having trouble with the internet. I'll try to catch up as soon as possible.

[Wickedestjr]

Alright. Catching up from page 4. I noticed that Exalt has been taken out of the game some how, but I will still respond to the rest of his questions in case others were interested in seeing my responses.

The question that I was looking for was something unrelated to an RVS vote. You are still stuck on it, and you seem to be the only one taking it seriously. This doesn't look very townie to me, since you attached to Glork/Merkabah's argument very quickly without your own reservations or thought process. Why is that?

I was simply asking questions to generate discussion. I didn't care whether or not the question I asked was related to an RVS vote or not. Also, I believe I did provide my own thought process. I was the first to suggest that you were making your case seem larger. Also, unless you do it constantly, there is no problem with following somebody else's case.

Wickedestjr: Are you scum?

No. How about you?

No. How do I know you aren't lying to me scum? Convince me otherwise. (does that sound familiar?

Umm... There is nothing that could make my allignment obvious this early in the game. Can't really convince you.

MonkeyMan has made bad attacks like this before in the last game I played with him, but he seems to be doing it more this game.

What was his alignment the last game you played with him?

Town.

I'm not suspicious of swimmer. His posts give me town vibes, and also, I like his attack of cyberbob. The only thing that really bothers me is how he avoided saying anything about MonkeyMan, but I still think he is town.

I hate when people say "town vibes" or "scum vibes" but fail to mention any specific posts. Please do so. I disagree with your "town vibe" and so I would like to know what makes you think this way.

His first two posts both seemed townie-like. This town read is mostly gut, but his posts seem like he is actually trying to find scum. Also, for future reference, when I say things like town vibes and scum vibes, that usually means it is mostly a gut read.

[Wickedestjr]

Page 5

MonkeyMan has made bad attacks like this before in the last game I played with him, but he seems to be doing it more this game.

But was he town or scum?

He was town.


RayFrost, this was my reason for voting you;

unvote, vote: kise kise needs to die first, I think he's the scum PR.

How do you know that there is a scum PR in this game? Also, how do you know that there is only one scum PR? If there was more than one scum PR, then I don't think you would have said "the" scum PR.

Wicked and swimmer, on the other hand, are just plain bad.

Why am I "plain bad"?

In other news: Wicked, swimmer and MonkeyMan are all looking pretty terrible ATM. I'm not seeing scum in Monkey, though; his efforts (although riddled with poor rationales for his tells) appear genuine to me.

Wicked and swimmer, on the other hand, are just plain bad. I'm leaning towards swimmer on this one largely because of this post:

Also just want to make an additional comment. With as much attention and flak I'm getting for pointing out something I have found scummy, I'm pretty sure I hit gold. I doubt I'll be changing my vote for awhile.

Did you perhaps consider that you're getting flak because your read on Ray is just flatout bad? You've got a serious self-fulfilling prophecy going on here, my friend. I'd bet a lot of money that if you'd been ignored you'd be going on about "omg scum coverup I'M ONTO SOMETHING HERE" instead.

Unvote, Vote: swimmer4lyfe

By the way: I did take part in the RVS, you lying sod. peace

Interesting. The only reason Cyberbob seems to be using here against swimmer is his accusation against RayFrost. However, he has no problems with MonkeyMan apparently, even though MonkeyMan did the same thing. What's the difference? Also, he votes for swimmer for doing something that a person he believes to be town also did. Another thing I notice in this post is that he has this suspicion of me, that he doesn't give any reasons for. This is starting to look kind of OMGUSy.

Infinis is being replaced.

Pads hasn't had time to come on yet (inconsistent schedule).

I support the others.

What makes non-posters suspicious?

Vaya never posts content within the first ten pages.

True story.

False.

I don't need a prod, I'll get caught up here in a little bit(within the next few days).

True.

I don't believe that swimmer has inside info at this point.

Yes, you are definately scum.

Unvote:
Vote: Swimmer4lyfe

This is stupid.

[Wickedestjr]

I read page 6. I don't really have anything to say about it. It is a long exchange between RayFrost and MonkeyMan mostly. Personally, regarding the "absolutes" debate, I don't think MonkeyMan was being very hypocritical.

BTW, why has Socrates's name been bolded in the last two votecounts?

[Wickedestjr]

Page 7

Post 154 is a terrible post.

Speaking of weak attempts to get the game going. Wicked's Post 47 looks like scum trying too hard to fit in and just posting fluff instead.

I don't see any problem with it. In my most recent games, I have attempted to start the game in a similar manner.

Same thing for his exchanges with Exalt.

Can you elaborate on this?

I think I miscounted by subconsciously miscounting votes as I reread people's posts

Why were you keeping track?

[Wickedestjr]

Page 8

Can somebody please explain posts 178 - 191. Either MonkeyMan contradicted himself a lot, or I just don't understand any of it. Can somebody summarize that whole argument please?

I don't have time to read Exalt's big post right now, so I will later.

Also, MonkeyMan, I'm assuming all my points I used against you were correct, because you haven't responded to any of them.

[Wickedestjr]

Okay. I think I understand page 8 now. Also, MonkeyMan didn't respond to this;

Show me where you said your case was being exaggerated (the overdefensive thing?)

And MonkeyMan, these were the things I wanted you to respond to;

My reasoning is hardly flimsy. For early in day one, I'd say it's pretty good,

at least to make you scummier than anyone else

, and your comments seem to confirm my hypothesis.

This kind of seems like you are purposely trying to make Rayfrost look scummy. Mostly because your reasoning shouldn't make somebody look scummy, their actions should.

I just think that the passion of his defence(it didn't really require the five or so sentences that he posted) wasn't equal to the level of attack.

Which lines would you have removed then? Or how would you have shortened the defense if you were in RayFrost's shoes?

MonkeyMan, how is Ray being

overly

defensive, and how does being defensive make Ray more likely to be scum?

I explained that over-defensiveness indicates guilty conscience.

I just think that the passion of his defence(it didn't really require the five or so sentences that he posted) wasn't equal to the level of attack.

ITT monkeyboy tries to convince the town that defending yourself to anything above some arbitrary extent is a scum tell.

Nice strawman.

Nice strawman.

And not referring to me by my actual name is an appeal to emotion.

How?

[Wickedestjr]

Also, MonkeyMan, please respond to 180 too.

[Wickedestjr]

Sorry for not paying so much attention to this thread. It is mostly because, I have been really busy lately, and my other game is 2 days away from deadline.

I just read pages 8 and 9.

I like Merkabah in the argument between him and Exalt, and also, after seeing Exalt's flip, I seriously doubt that Merkabah is scumbuddies with Exalt if he is scum, but I doubt he is scum anyway.

VPB, why was it that in post 216 you only commented on Cyberbob's post?

I'll make you a deal: you drop the act about not defending swimmer and I'll write up the list.

Why does this have to happen for you to write the list? Also, if Merkabah was telling the truth, this means you'll never give the list?


Some Reads;

MonkeyMan - Still Scum
Cyberbob - Scum (for the reasons I stated earlier)
Snow_Bunny - Town
Merkabah - Town
Pads - Town

[Wickedestjr]

Thing is, you are accountable for your partner's actions and behaviors. If Amished defended Swimmer, then Merkabah defended swimmer. "Amished defended Swimmer but I didn't" is irrelevant.

Why?

Wicked: What was the point of your laundry list of questions?

They were to help generate discussion.


BTW, I also think swimmer and Glork are town because of Exalt's interactions with them.

[Wickedestjr]

Fortunately, my other game is at night time right now, so I can spend more time in this game. Also, when the night ends in that game, I won't have to worry about a close deadline, so I should be contributing more for a while.

I just finished reading page 10, and two players that have caught my attention are Devestation and Kise.

Devestation, I'm going to keep a close watch on, mostly because on page ten, the only player he comments on is MonkeyMan which is convenient considering he was one of the biggest serious bandwagons early in the game. Also, while there are good reasons to be voting MonkeyMan, Devestation hasn't given any good ones. It seems to be because of a quote he brings up in post 231 which I don't understand his response to and that he isn't scumhunting in the RVS.


Kise deserves an

FoS: Kise

for post 238:

Post 238:

unvote, vote: kise kise needs to die first, I think he's the scum PR.

How do you know that there is a scum PR in this game? Also, how do you know that there is only one scum PR? If there was more than one scum PR, then I don't think you would have said "the" scum PR.

Vote: Rayfrost

Hider? Stop rolefishing!

Why should he stop rolefishing, it looks to me like the role he was fishing for was scum? Also, this is quite hypocritical. You are asking him if he's a hider, so you are rolefishing.

1: No, I ask if he [joke] referred to me as hider. And didn't you just finish suspecting him? 2: How are seriously going to look at two people engaged in RVS convo and suspect them both for non-serious comments? 3: You can't suspect two people who oppose each other, even if jokingly. The proper expression has something to do with an inability to have cake and eat it... I forget. Check my avy. It's not yours.

Vote: Wickedestjr

4:

IGMEO Warwound & SolemnJ

@Big Willy - Do you remember in Day & Night that whole Monkey Vs. BC situation? Both flipped town, and the case against Monkey was that he said BC was overreacting. Would you say we're seeing similar words/thought patterns from Monkey here? 5: I need a 2nd opinion.

1: Okay. That just wasn't how I interprated it.

2: Here he has a problem with me suspecting two people in the RVS for their non-serious comments. I thought that was how we got out of the RVS. Isn't it?

3: Says I can't accuse two players who oppose each other. There are many reasons why this is false. Firstly, there could be two scum groups and different scum group members opposing each other. Secondly, even if we knew there was one scum group, what would be wrong with suspecting two players who oppose each other anyway? I have previous experience being in a situation in which two people who opposed each other were both acting scummy. Thirdly, I wasn't even suspecting RayFrost nor Kise seriously in the first place. My vote for RayFrost was after reading a page of information, and I was simply questioning something that Kise had said. Why does that mean I am suspecting both of you? Fourthly, he assumes that I would think about scum relationships on page 2 of the game. That is a stupid assumption.

4: Thanks? Can you explain why you said this?

5: Why not give yours?

[Wickedestjr]

I just read page 11.

Tarhalindur, you posted several reasons why swimmer could be an alt or scum. I only saw reasons that supported the alt theory, but how do the reasons you posted indicate that he could be scum?


Also, after Exalt's flip, this is a good thing to remember;

...total read on Exalt's past games indicates to me that he's very probably town (the main reason for doubt here is that Exalt has been scum in exactly one completed game, and that was some time ago).

[Wickedestjr]

I love how MonkeyMan takes the bolded from this post and uses it against RayFrost.

Huh?

I am calling you monkeyboy cuz that's your designated nickname.

Glork will eventually be either Glorky or Glork...

Exalt is Exalt

Amished/VP is... VPA

nicknames are nicknames

Seriously? How does RayFrost saying Exalt's nickname is Exalt mean he is scum?

1: Quickly once over: Kise probably isn't a member of the Jupiter Mafia, though I guess if there are two mafia groups he could be on the other one.

2: Swimmer is less likely to be a scum buddy than Monkeyman based on the post where Exalt origionally voted for swimmer.

3: Merkabah is not a member of the jupiter mafia.

4: Rayfrost declared Exalt to be town earlier. Not damning, but worth noting.

This is a bad post.

1: Reasons?

2: Thanks for stating the obvious.

3: Thanks for stating the obvious.

4: What about Tarhalindur and Glork who I think both said Exalt was town also?

I doubt Kise would do that to his Godfather, so I need to look elsewhere, unless there are two mafia groups. The fact that it says "Jupiter Mafia Godfather" as opposed to just "Mafia Godfather" is obviously a point of discussion.

What did Kise do to Exalt?

Also, I agree that Jupiter probably means that there is another scum group. If I were to guess I'd say two scum groups of three. That would make six is scum which is about a fourth of the number of players.


Also, why does it say that populartajo is yet to be reborn into this realm?

Yet to be Reborn into this Realm(1)

1. populartajo

[Wickedestjr]

Not really anything I have to say about page 13 apart from that I like the suspicions of SolemnJ.

Page 14:

Post 339 is stupid.

Alright. I'll try and finish this within the next two days. (Tomorrow I will have limited access.)

[Wickedestjr]

I got time to finish page 14. I read Tarhalindur's post regarding relationships between Exalt and other players, and I'm not really impressed. I think that the chainsaw defense involving Exalt and MonkeyMan has merit to it. Also, I agree with his conclusion that swimmer isn't Jupiter Mafia. Also I know I am town, so I also agree with his conclusion about me. But, I don't really agree with his conclusions about Glork and Empking. I think his conclusions about Glork were reaching. As for Empking, I think it was a bad conclusion to make that he wasn't Jupiter Mafia. Why do two insults from Exalt make you believe that he and Empking aren't connected? If anything, I'd guess it was an attempt to distance Empking from him. IGMEO Tarhalindur and also Empking, because they could both be connected.

[Wickedestjr]

First of all, he took your big fluffy post completely seriously. I don't think a single other person did (i.e. bothered to answer any of the questions). This looks to me as though he is trying to validate your scum hunting.

First of all, there are several other players that answered my questions. Riceballtail and swimmer are players that come to mind. I don't really know why Exalt responded to my post the way he did, but now that I know he's scum, I'm guessing it was an attempt to gain my trust or make me think he was town. Also, I recall one game in which it was mostly/only the scum that gave my posts any credibility late in the game. It may be a scum tell. Why do you think Exalt would want to validate my scum hunting in the RVS?

You could argue that your large post came in the RVS, but Exalt's response and your follow up were clearly posted out of the RVS.

So?

Wickedestjr: Are you scum?

No. How about you?

Exalt's play did not strike me as terribly deep, and I doubt he'd be brave enough to lob this question at anyone other than a trusted scum buddy. Your response is no better. Most importantly, the entire exchange looks fake.

I don't think asking that question required any bravery. Why would he be afraid to ask a question as simple as "Are you scum?" in the RVS? I asked it to multiple players. Also, I can't really defend my response. It was mostly because I was trying to start as much discussion as possible, and I saw no reason not to throw his question back at him. Also, I can't defend against "the entire exchange looks fake."

I'm not seeing scum in Monkey, though; his efforts (although riddled with poor rationales for his tells) appear genuine to me.

If he thinks I'm scum, that's fine. If he doesn't think Monkey is scum, that's fine, too. But a suspicion where he calls out someone for buddying is clearly manufactured when he doesn't suspect the buddy.

This is scum talking, and I don't limit him to being on Monkey's team, although it does seem likely.

These are good points.



I'm not sure what to think of MonkeyMan's claim. He has been acting very scummy and has avoided responding to the accusations lately. I will keep my vote until he responds.

Re: Pads' case on Wikedest, I went and Iso'd Wikedest in a couple of his finished games and his play here seems pretty consistant with previous games. He posts a lot of questions that could be construed as fluff and whatnot. Then again, he doesn't seem to have any completed games as scum, so take that with a grain of salt.

What does that have to do with Pads' case?

Wicked: What was the point of your laundry list of questions?

They were to help generate discussion.

Does it bother you that a large number of people ignored or deliberately chose not to answer your questions? Why didn't you follow up on them?

Well, I would have liked if all the players would have responded to my questions because it took me a while to come up with them, but I didn't follow up on them for two reasons;

1. The questions I asked were kind of pathetic imo. Especially the last few. Also, in my most recent games, many players have hardly given any of my questions any credibility, so I'm used to it.

2. We were already out of the RVS when I came back to check the thread, so I didn't see any reason to continue to ask for responses.


Alright, I managed to read another page. I may be able to catch up more, but no promises.

[Wickedestjr]

I doubt Kise would do that to his Godfather, so I need to look elsewhere, unless there are two mafia groups. The fact that it says "Jupiter Mafia Godfather" as opposed to just "Mafia Godfather" is obviously a point of discussion.

What did Kise do to Exalt?

He used a horrible exuse (Exalt and Merk having a personal conflict) to suggest that we lynch both players. EXTREMELY TINY chance that he's doing this to bus one of his scumbuddies.

I disagree with this then. I think that Kise is a smart enough player to realize that he wouldn't get support with that.

[Wickedestjr]

Okay I'm finally caught up. Here my thoughts about all the players;

Tarhalindur - His post where he tried to find relations between Exalt and other players wasn't very good and it seems like it was an attempt to appear pro-town or to not look like Jupiter Mafia. Also he makes a bad point against Glork and said Empking probably wasn't Jupiter Mafia for terrible reasons. I'm thinking that he's scum. Probably Jupiter Mafia.

Vaya - Who's she again? Neutral.

Devestation - His posts haven't really been very helpful. The only player that he has commented on is MonkeyMan. Neutral-scum.

Mufasa - Did he get his pm yet? Neutral.

WarWound - I don't even know that he's made any posts. Neutral.

xRECKONERx - I can't get a read on him yet. Neutral.

Snow_Bunny - We seem to have many common suspects which is good. Also, gut is telling me town. Town.

Riceballtail - I dislike most of her posts. Also, several of the things she says seem to be things that other people have already said.
Neutral-Scum.

Socrates - I don't think his posts are very helpful. Neutral-Scum.

Wysp - Swimmer I thought was town so... Town.

Kise - See my reasons for FoSing him earlier. Scum.

Glork - His relations with Exalt make him look town. His posts also seem pro-town. Town.

Empking - I see a scum Tarhalindur and Empking connection.
Neutral-Scum.

RayFrost - His posts don't have much content. Most of the things he comments on are not even related to scumhunting in this particular game. I still need more info to get a good idea about him. Neutral-Scum.

SolemnJ - Logic says scum, but gut says town. I'm going with gut now. Town.

Merkabah - Their posts are good, and also he gets many town points for Exalt's flip.

MonkeyMan576 - Scum.

Cyberbob - The points brought up against him are pretty convincing. Scum.

Pads - His posts are very pro-town looking. Town.

Slicey - Neutral.

Raivann - Don't know much about him yet. I'm waiting for more posts.
Neutral.


So;

Scum

Tarhalindur
Kise
MonkeyMan
Cyberbob

Neutral-Scum

Rayfrost
Empking
Socrates
Riceballtail
Devestation

Neutral

Raivann
Slicey
xRx
WarWound
Mufasa
Vaya

Town

Pads
Merkabah
SolemnJ
Glork
Wysp
Snow_Bunny

[Wickedestjr]

@Wickedest: /facepalm What do you really think you putting your thoughts about the whole game down will achieve? You've been able to coast by by not commenting on the current events by posting useless catchup posts.

I put my thoughts down about all the players to show my stance on things. Are you saying I shouldn't have? Also, what current events have I failed to comment on? Also, I don't think my posts are useless.

[Wickedestjr]

@Raiv: We both thought that the attacks against swimmer were for bad/scummy reasons (Exalt being one of the more prominent ones *hint hint*); so I didn't think that scum would bus their partner that early/so hard.

If there is more than one scum faction(which i believe btw) your reason doesn't make any sense.

I thought he was town before Exalt's flip. I explain why in one of my previous posts.

Also, apparently I hadn't unvoted.

Unvote Vote: MonkeyMan

. That's where I intended to have my vote, and I still plan on keeping it until MonkeyMan makes good responses to the accusations brought up against him.

[Wickedestjr]

Also, mod, Exalt is not playing anymore. His name is still in the votecount.

[Wickedestjr]

Since, MonkeyMan is lurking...

Unvote Vote: Cyberbob

for the points Merkabah, Pads, and I brought up. Also, if he's town it's not much of a loss.


I dislike xRx's suspicions of Vaya and Snow_Bunny. I also find it odd how he brings up reasons to suspect RBT and then says he thinks she's town.

Well, my SolemnJ vote is largely useless at this point,

so I should move it.

Yet you haven't moved it yet. What was the point of this comment?

[Wickedestjr]

Wicked: Why don't you like Reckoning's suspicions?

The reasoning behind his suspicions isn't very convincing. Also, are reads on those three players seem to be complete opposites. I think Snow_Bunny is town, he thinks she is scum, I think Riceballtail is scum, yet he thinks she is town. I can't get a read on Vaya, yet xRx seemed pretty sure that she was scum. It bothers me that we have such different ideas.

What do you think of Vaya's and Snow_Bunny's play?

Vaya has only made three posts. None of them have been that helpful. However, having said that, I don't think Vaya would have come out of nowhere to jump on the most popular bandwagon if she was scum.

Snow_Bunny also hasn't been very helpful, but, like I said before, my gut is telling me that she is town. Also, xRx's reasons for voting her seem to be a bit reaching.


Also @Everyone - why have people been ignoring my posts?

[Wickedestjr]

Also @Everyone - why have people been ignoring my posts?

Don't worry, if anyone has an ounce of intelligence that trend is soon to be broken given the following paragraph:

Vaya has only made three posts. None of them have been that helpful. However, having said that, I don't think Vaya would have come out of nowhere to jump on the most popular bandwagon if she was scum.

Why?

Also @Everyone - why have people been ignoring my posts?

They are bad.

Poor reasoning, etc.

That means they should be ignored? Just because you thinik they are bad, doesn't mean you don't have to respond.

1: RBT has been more helpful (or at least attempted to more helpful) than SB in my opinion. 2: Oh, look at how SB doesn't pay me any attention, then as soon as I vote her she goes digging for stuff to vote me. OMGUS-like behavior. 3: Also, I believe I implied that Vaya was scummy, but hadn't posted enough to get a real read on, WHICH IS WHY I CHOSE TO VOTE FOR SB.

1: So? Why does that indicate that she is town? Also, what exactly gave you a townier vibe from RBT?

2: The points she brought up against you were things that occurred after her previous post.

3: Where did you say that? Here you said;

Aaaand I just iso'd Vaya. Holy. Fucking. Shit.

Unvote, Vote: Vaya

Really? A post from over a week ago stating you'll get caught up in the next few days, then a reasonless vote on Cyberbob, then a post calling for more Cyber votes?

and that post seemed like you actually thought she was scum.

QFT, basically. So you're saying it's okay for someone to lurk for nearly an entire MONTH contrbuting NOTHING, then hopping on the bandwagon of the day? Where did you learn to play Mafia?

It is anti-town for her to do that, but I'm not bothered by it.

[Wickedestjr]

Because it's one of the most god-awful things I've ever seen. "It's too scummy to be scummy!!!" is not good in any way shape or form and you should be drawing a lot more suspicion than you currently are.

I've used that argument before, when looking for scum. Even if I didn't use that argument against her, the points against her could be applied to many other players.

1: Are you really asking my why helpfulness = pro-town? What kind of question is that?

2: Were they, now?

3: Are you completely ignoring my following post?

1: No, I'm not. I don't know how you drew that conclusion. I see that contributing more is helpful to the town, however, you can't judge allignment based on contribution. If that were the case, then scum would contribute more, but that just creates WIFOM.

2: Yep. Here are the reasons;

[A: xReck voted Vaya for basically lurking, and yet he ignores MM's sudden lurking.][B: He's even hypocrite enough to say that my reasons to vote for Cyber are convenient, when he doesn't have a real reason to vote for Cyber. When he placed his vote, he said he couldn't post the reasons atm, but then he never posted them at all. Next thing he did after voting him was pushing for his lynch. Still no reasons.]

Keep in mind that this was the post where she gave her thoughts on you, and her previous post was post #454.

A: xRx, you did this in post 482. That was after post 454. So her first post after you voted Vaya was the one where she attacked you for it.

B: xRx, you did this in post 487. That was after post 454. So her first post after you said her reasons for voting cyberbob were convenient was the one where she attacked you for it.

So, the points were both based on your attack, and she accused you the first post after you did those things.


3: Okay


Cyberbob, if you find the town isn't playing well, why don't you actually help? If you don't want to win/play, then ask for a replacement.

[Wickedestjr]

I've used that argument before

This is not a valid argument, sorry. There's a reason we call certain actions "scummy". Would you like for me to spell it out for you?

I really don't care what you think of my scumhunting. I have used that as a tell before to find townies, and I don't recall ever inaccurately applying it to any situation. Also, even if I didn't use that tell, all the points against her could be applied to other players.

Cyberbob, if you find the town isn't playing well, why don't you actually help? If you don't want to win/play, then ask for a replacement.

Who said I'm not playing to win? I certainly think that my wagon has a number of scum on it and my cardflip will aid in their eventual deaths. It's pretty much the only valid tool I have left that anyone will actually pay attention to.

How do you know nobody will pay attention to anything else you say? If you actually do flip town, then we know anything you said won't be biased because of your allignment.

Wicked, she didn't attack me and say she wanted a lynch on me until I attacked her. That's my point. Why are you arguing against that?

Yes, I know. However, what I am saying is that all the things that she attacked you for happened right before she attacked you, so there really isn't any problem with it.

Isn't that exactly what a scum would do?

Sometimes maybe.

Cyberbob, are Merkabah, Glork, and Pads scummy or stupid town because they voted you?


Riceballtail, what?

[Wickedestjr]

Cyberbob never answered my question, so I'm keeping my vote on him.

You are very hypocritical.


Cyberbob, what was so scummy about the manner people voted you?

Speakin of the swimmer wagon, how bout we pick that one up again 'eh?

Swimmer was scummy and got replaced by Wysp. Wysp saw his role pm and didn't even post. Now Muh is scared to make a content post.

I too am believin Cyber's VT claim, Let us lynch Muh.

Speaking of which, what has the purpose of your vote for swimmer/wysp/muh been since swimmer got replaced?

[Wickedestjr]

I promise I will have content within 12 hours.

Hmm...


I still believe that Cyberbob is the best lynch today. First of all, we are very close to deadline and he has claimed vanilla which are both good reasons to lynch him. Second of all, I don't like his responses to the bandwagon. Instead of saying anything helpful, he just insults the people attacking him. Thirdly, he says we don't deserve to win, and that he isn't going to defend himself because of that, yet I also get the feeling that he is sort of trying to prevent his lynch anyway.

Also, VP brings up a good point here:

You're point doesn't even make sense honestly. You're saying I'm chaining lynches together, but how is that possible if you're town? If you flipped town, then obviously people aren't going to be in a clamor to lynch Reckoner as your buddy. And your other theory about you flipping scum (why are you considering that if you're town?) makes me more likely scum how again? Wouldn't the more logical conclusion be, if you flip scum, that I actually am town who believes you and reckoner are buddies?

[Wickedestjr]

It wouldn't be much of a loss if you are telling the truth.

[Wickedestjr]

VP Baltar and Amished are two players on the site who both control the Merkabah account. (that is correct right?)

muh, what are your thoughts on the game so far? How far are you in your catch up?

[Wickedestjr]

Take your time. Even though it would be good to hear your thoughts before the day ends, there is no rush really.

[Wickedestjr]

Raivann how is he supposed to post content if he is still catching up?

muh, are you saying that you don't think the Merkabah vs. Exalt exchange makes Merkabah town? swimmer was replaced for insulting another player which is apparently breaking the rules. Also, some mods have different rules about what ends the day.

[Wickedestjr]

I agree that there could be more than one possible interpretation. I just think that given the early nature of the game, the possibility that he could be scum warrants attention. There's no one answer for when someone is overdefensive, but it CAN be a scum tell. Of course, it doesn't mean it ALWAYS is.

Thanks for saying absolutely nothing.

I'm trying, at least.

So you aren't scumhunting well?

Speaking of defending oneself, are the people who said that they are suspicious of me actually serious?

Do you think anybody claiming to suspect you would admit that they weren't serious? Also, why do you need to know this?

Like I said, I am not advocating his lynch, and recognize that he could be jumpy-town. but I like my vote at this point.

How sure are you that RayFrost is actually scum?


Sorry. I don't have enough time to catch up right now. I might have time in about 15 minutes or so, but if I don't then I won't get a chance to post until tomorrow.

Please don't post

too

much for me to catch up on.

[Wickedestjr]

EBWOP: MonkeyMan, respond to these questions that I reiterated on page 14 after you requested that I bring them up again.

Okay. I think I understand page 8 now. Also, MonkeyMan didn't respond to this;

Show me where you said your case was being exaggerated (the overdefensive thing?)

And MonkeyMan, these were the things I wanted you to respond to;

My reasoning is hardly flimsy. For early in day one, I'd say it's pretty good,

at least to make you scummier than anyone else

, and your comments seem to confirm my hypothesis.

This kind of seems like you are purposely trying to make Rayfrost look scummy. Mostly because your reasoning shouldn't make somebody look scummy, their actions should.

I just think that the passion of his defence(it didn't really require the five or so sentences that he posted) wasn't equal to the level of attack.

Which lines would you have removed then? Or how would you have shortened the defense if you were in RayFrost's shoes?

MonkeyMan, how is Ray being

overly

defensive, and how does being defensive make Ray more likely to be scum?

I explained that over-defensiveness indicates guilty conscience.

I just think that the passion of his defence(it didn't really require the five or so sentences that he posted) wasn't equal to the level of attack.

ITT monkeyboy tries to convince the town that defending yourself to anything above some arbitrary extent is a scum tell.

Nice strawman.

Nice strawman.

And not referring to me by my actual name is an appeal to emotion.

How?

[Wickedestjr]

Post 692 was the wrong post.

[Wickedestjr]

Are you purposely ignoring this point:

My reasoning is hardly flimsy. For early in day one, I'd say it's pretty good,

at least to make you scummier than anyone else

, and your comments seem to confirm my hypothesis.

This kind of seems like you are purposely trying to make Rayfrost look scummy. Mostly because your reasoning shouldn't make somebody look scummy, their actions should.

How is my suggesting his argument is strawman in itself a strawman?

Because RayFrost wasn't strawmanning you.

Because he is trying to get others to view me in negative light without actually having to provide an argument.

How does calling you Monkeyboy actually make people view you in a negative light?


Also, how come you never responded to these points? I brought them up on page 14 after you requested that I bring them up again.

[Wickedestjr]

Are you purposely ignoring this point:

My reasoning is hardly flimsy. For early in day one, I'd say it's pretty good,

at least to make you scummier than anyone else

, and your comments seem to confirm my hypothesis.

This kind of seems like you are purposely trying to make Rayfrost look scummy. Mostly because your reasoning shouldn't make somebody look scummy, their actions should.

I was focusing on his actions, so I don't see your point.

What does this have to do with the point I brought up against you?

How is my suggesting his argument is strawman in itself a strawman?

Because RayFrost wasn't strawmanning you.

Well that's a matter of opinion.

First of all, if it actually is a strawman, then why have you completely forgotten about him?

Secondly, if RayFrost was strawmanning you then what exactly were you trying to convince the town of in that post?

Because he is trying to get others to view me in negative light without actually having to provide an argument.

How does calling you Monkeyboy actually make people view you in a negative light?

It's degregating.

Maybe only slightly, which brings me to my next question; Why do you think RayFrost would have done that so early in the game if it is obvious that it wouldn't have a great effect anyway?

Also, how come you never responded to these points? I brought them up on page 14 after you requested that I bring them up again.

I probably didn't see them.

How come you weren't looking out for them?

[Wickedestjr]

I'm beginning to think a Muh wagon might be better at this point. His behavior is very scummy.

FOS: Muh

or its just that I thought of you as suspicious and your trying to lynch me

LOL. You're right the fact that you continually promise to provide content but fail to do so, and then refuse to vote isn't suspicious.

I hope this wasn't sarcasm.

[Wickedestjr]

Which post?

Here:

I just think that the passion of his defence(it didn't really require the five or so sentences that he posted) wasn't equal to the level of attack.

I don't know, but it's WIFOM. Who knows what kind of effect it would have?

I do. It would have no effect.

Also, how come you never responded to these points? I brought them up on page 14 after you requested that I bring them up again.

I probably didn't see them.

How come you weren't looking out for them?

People make mistakes.

It's a mistake that seems too big a coincidence. If you read the thread then you should have seen a big post where your name was written in bold several times in the quotes.

Raivann how is he supposed to post content if he is still catching up?

3 more days to get caught up? Really?
How convenient that thats right after deadline.
I know people have lives and muh said he reads slow, but something is definitely off here.

Well, he didn't replace in until a few days ago.

Wicked I honestly don't think you could possibly buddy Muh harder if you tried.

How was I buddying Muh?

If Cyberbob flips scum, a) Do you think he will flip Jupiter Mafia or from an unrevealed group? and b) Who do you think his most likely partner is?

a.) I think he'll be Jupiter Mafia. He only comments on Exalt twice before his flip:

It's actually rather anti-town play to be making posts that are so rambling and (to be frank) incoherent. This also goes for certain other people (looking at Exalt and Wicked) who have been displaying a rather inordinate fondness for splitting posts into massive numbers of quotes; stop that.

Looks like a poor attempt to distance.

- Not really seeing the reasons behind the suspicion of Exalt.

Then, he says he isn't suspicious of Exalt here.


b.) I think his most likely partner is MonkeyMan.

Also, all the muh hate seems like fabricated scumhunting and nothing more than a newbie beatdown. Probably scum in that group of people.

QFT


Hi Annachie. And BTW, nice sig.

It wasn't for anyone specific, just want to make sure we get the best lynch.

Isn't it clear that we are probably lynching Cyberbob today? I don't understand your motivation.

[Wickedestjr]

Since there have been two kills the past two nights and a vig just died, I'm guessing that there is only one scum group. Also, it would make sense for the "shot"s to have come from the scum.

Also, since I wasn't able to post yesterday, I'll say now: I am going to be leaving and will have two weeks of no computer access, so I am being temporarily replaced for most of that time.

I'm going to look over the thread again before I vote for somebody. I also would like to hear Ray's night action.

[Wickedestjr]

Wicked, if you had actually paid attention to the fact that Glork's kill flavor has not shown up either night, then perhaps you are trying to downplay the likelihood of your scumfaction showing up and being hunted?

I also expect a report from Ray.

Oh I didn't see this:

Wicked, what do you mean "temporarily replaced"? By whom? What scumfaction are you a part of?

I am going to be leaving for two weeks starting on the 18th, and I will be replaced by a player named Percy. I'm not scum.


Even though I don't like the muh scrutiny, the lynch would be slightly telling based on swimmer's posts.



Tar, I don't understand your second reason for voting Raivaan. Can you explain it again? I do like the first reason though.

Shit... okay first of all, not bandwagoning. I didn't know Tar posted/voted also.

If you are town then what does it matter?

While I'm here, may as well mention 1: my suspicion of Wicked is lifted. 2: Pads is Jupiter Mafia BTW.

1: Why? Care to respond to my post directed at you?

2: Why?



So, whatsup Pads? Did you forget your case on me or what?

Then it certainly begs the question why you think Vaya is not scum for doing something that a scum sometimes maybe does. I'll tell you what I think, though. I think this comment looks unnatural.

It is something that scum may do, but I don't think Vaya is the kind of player that would do it as scum. I also have a gut read that Vaya is town, and the many of the reasons being used against her could apply to others.

I'm going to assume that Tar is town, as a scum mason outting and asking for the lynch of his partner to gain sole control of the PR is rather too obvious for me to consider a scum tell.

Why wouldn't this be a scumtell? I don't understand.


I've decided I'm not going to cast a vote until I return, because I am just going to get replaced, and my replacement may have different ideas, but my main suspect is probably Tar still. Mostly because of the reasons before, but I also don't understand his reason for choosing RayFrost to use his ability on last night. What's the point of keeping him alive if it means he can't use his ability any way? That doesn't make much sense to me. Also, odds are if there really are two investigative roles (which Tar obviously believes) then there could be another protective role to protect RayFrost.

I also still suspect Kise from the reasons before and the post where he made a big deal about his vote following Tar's.

[Wickedestjr]

I did not get the time to post anything of content today, but this is also my last day to make a post. So, I'll be crossing my fingers for you guys hoping that we lynch scum, because when I return it will probably be day 4 according to the deadline.

I would just like to suggest that you guys keep a close watch on Tar and Kise.

Until then, Percy will take over in 3 or 4 days I think until I get back.

[Wickedestjr]

Hello, I'm back. Percy, thank you for temporarily replacing me in this game! I'm going to begin catching up now.

[Wickedestjr]

Firstly, I was wrong about the brutally murdered kills, and I doubt Glork was responsible for either of them. It is also very likely that Jupiter Mafia is responsible for the shots, so there must be either another scum group or an SK that is responsible for the brutally murdered kills (assuming there aren't two vigs). I'm having a hard time figuring out which one it is, because there are good reasons supporting both possibilities. It would make sense for there to be another group since the group we know about has Jupiter in its name. However, the kills look like an SK trying to appear like a vig the first two nights and then making an SK-like kill after a vig flipped. I think I'm leaning toward the SK possibility.

Wicked, bring up that post you need me to answer. Please? Pretty please?

This was what I wanted a response to:

unvote, vote: kise kise needs to die first, I think he's the scum PR.

How do you know that there is a scum PR in this game? Also, how do you know that there is only one scum PR? If there was more than one scum PR, then I don't think you would have said "the" scum PR.

Vote: Rayfrost

Hider? Stop rolefishing!

Why should he stop rolefishing, it looks to me like the role he was fishing for was scum? Also, this is quite hypocritical. You are asking him if he's a hider, so you are rolefishing.

1: No, I ask if he [joke] referred to me as hider. And didn't you just finish suspecting him? 2: How are seriously going to look at two people engaged in RVS convo and suspect them both for non-serious comments? 3: You can't suspect two people who oppose each other, even if jokingly. The proper expression has something to do with an inability to have cake and eat it... I forget. Check my avy. It's not yours.

Vote: Wickedestjr

4:

IGMEO Warwound & SolemnJ

@Big Willy - Do you remember in Day & Night that whole Monkey Vs. BC situation? Both flipped town, and the case against Monkey was that he said BC was overreacting. Would you say we're seeing similar words/thought patterns from Monkey here? 5: I need a 2nd opinion.

1: Okay. That just wasn't how I interprated it.

2: Here he has a problem with me suspecting two people in the RVS for their non-serious comments. I thought that was how we got out of the RVS. Isn't it?

3: Says I can't accuse two players who oppose each other. There are many reasons why this is false. Firstly, there could be two scum groups and different scum group members opposing each other. Secondly, even if we knew there was one scum group, what would be wrong with suspecting two players who oppose each other anyway? I have previous experience being in a situation in which two people who opposed each other were both acting scummy. Thirdly, I wasn't even suspecting RayFrost nor Kise seriously in the first place. My vote for RayFrost was after reading a page of information, and I was simply questioning something that Kise had said. Why does that mean I am suspecting both of you? Fourthly, he assumes that I would think about scum relationships on page 2 of the game. That is a stupid assumption.

4: Thanks? Can you explain why you said this?

5: Why not give yours?

I also would like to know why your suspicion of me has "lifted".


zoraster, can you please elaborate on your concern with Annachie's questions? I'm a bit confused.


I will continue catching up tomorrow.

[Wickedestjr]

Sorry, today was a busy day. Wasn't able to make a post, but I am still catching up.

[Wickedestjr]

I think that muh is just newbtown. I agree that his play in this game has been ridiculous, but I am having a lot of trouble imagining him as scum. Gut is telling me town. Logic also supports this read: I think that the second kill belongs to an SK, and I also think that the SK was trying to seem like a vig. No offense to muh, but I don't think he would be sensible enough to come up with that idea. Despite my townread on muh, I think he would end up being a good lynch if someone we bandwagoned claimed a power role a few days prior to deadline for the reasons that Tar states in post 1066.


I'm reading page 43.

I think that Percy brings up many good points. I disagree with the vote for muh though.

Also, if we can eliminate muh from being Jupiter (due to MMan/Exalt); he's "half" as likely to be scum.

I thought you were of the belief that the second kill belonged to an SK.


I will finish catching up later.

[Wickedestjr]

Wicked is also far too fascinated with the multiscum setup, and his posts reek of scum sowing seeds of confusion.

I assume you are talking about Percy here, right? Anyway, can you show examples of how he is far to fascinated and why that is scummy? Also, please give examples of him sowing seeds of confusion.

Vote: wicked

No way did he just repeat the same arguments regarding the kills and factions then say "I'm not done catching up." He's blatantly trying to appear townie by stealing other ideas then added on the whole "oh. I'm catching up" bit to make it sound like an innocent coincidence.

Sorry, I didn't know I wasn't able to speculate on the game until I've made sure my ideas haven't already been mentioned. I don't think it is impossible for players to have similar ideas about the game.

But now, as you've gotten more attention, my top suspect suddenly suspects you. An iso read shows that Wickedest gave a neutral read on you earlier in the game and then didn't talk about you at all until now. That's a possible bus, but I'd rather start with Wickedest and then make the call.

Wow. Are you serious? Even if me and Raivann were scumbuddies, then me calling him neutral isn't bussing at all. It also seems that you've completely ignored the fact that I had him as neutral because I didn't have much information about him:

Raivann - Don't know much about him yet. I'm waiting for more posts.
Neutral.

How is that bussing?

And the reason for me not mentioning him much is because he hasn't really stood out to me. I like the points that Tar brought up though.

[Wickedestjr]

No. You can't make something out of jokes. And you definitely can't have your cake and eat it too by suspecting two people you perceive as arguing. That's like saying, "either or is scum, and I'll be on both wagons."

My accusations weren't serious. Also, I wasn't taking relationships into account when we were still in the RVS. I have even given several reasons why.

Also, another thing I'd like to point out is that RBT has done the exact same thing, but

out

of the RVS:

I am quite confident that Monkey/Swim are scum together.

UNVOTE; VOTE:Monkey

You seem to have completely ignored it.

Again, RVS phase. Nothing we said was serious. So you can't get anything out of our comments.

Like I said, I wasn't seriously suspecting you or RayFrost.

Umm... back up. Where do I assume you're thinking about scum relationships? And by scum relationships, do you mean of the same faction?

Okay: You voted me for suspecting you and RayFrost despite both of you arguing with each other. When I said this:

Fourthly, he assumes that I would think about scum relationships on page 2 of the game. That is a stupid assumption.

I was pointing out how wierd it was that you were attacking me for not considering these relationships when we were in the RVS.

Kinda went over this in my last post. You're serious about the scumhunting-progress. To me, that eliminates you from being a lazy scummer

..and? I don't get it.

Do you see how you've got your sights on us two? For one thing, I wasn't calling him hider but asking him if he called me hider. It was just weird as hell that you'd give Ray props for rolefishing against scum, yet you had your vote on him..

My vote had nothing to do with the rolefishing.

[Wickedestjr]

I find it kind of wierd that Vaya is fine with the massclaim, yet doesn't seem to be aware of the situation enough to have any reads on people.

lol @ wickedest saying he (basically, since percy = wickedest) brings up good points, but then disagrees with "himself". Really?

What?

Didn't ignore it. 1: You used my name so you got the attention. 2: And... I was probably-definitely inactive that month.

1: You seem to have acknowledged other players who haven't used your name.

2: Nope. Your latest post before she made the comment was on the same day and your next post was made on the day after she made the comment. You were there.

[Wickedestjr]

Pads, there are three things I don't understand about your post:

1. I don't know how you reached the interpratation you made here:

Hey, Merkabah. I sure would like to talk about a multiscum setup, but I need a pro-town looking person to vicariously give me permission to do so by acknowledging a suspicion that a multi-scum setup is present, so that if someone calls me out for it, I can point to the pro-town person and say "well,, he started it!". So, can I?

2. I don't understand why Percy would have tried to get permission to talk about the multiscum setup.


3. I don't understand why talking about the multiscum setup would help "sow the seeds of confusion".


Also, Percy only had a few days to post, so why would he go to all that trouble to talk about it for a few days? Do you actually think that talking about it for a few days would "sow the seeds of confusion" ?

C'mon now. Calling him neutral is obviously not the bussing part. But starting out with no read, and then not tallking about him at all until he gets a wagon on him is exactly what scum buddy bussing looks like.

Its not the wagon that made me suspect Raivann, it was the reasons for the wagon. Before those points were posted, I didn't see anything wrong about Raivann.

[Wickedestjr]

@Wicked: Start off with the fact that you and Percy are the same slot. I find it humorous that in 1122 (page 45) that you congratulate "yourself" (Percy); yet disagree with "yourself" (Percy's vote of muh). It just seems like you're congratulating yourself while also admonishing yourself (where yourself has more of a metaphysical definition)

So I either have to agree with everything or disagree with everything?

[Wickedestjr]

I believe muh's claim, but would like to hear about his other abilities. I don't think that he would have claimed a role that would have attracted so much attention.

I also believe xRx's claim. I don't understand why people think he is an SK. Could somebody explain?

A Raivann lynch seems like the best option to me:

Vote: Raivann

I also find RBT suspicious.

[Wickedestjr]

I'm a Town Villager.

We're just waiting for Kise, Slicey, and Tar.

[Wickedestjr]

I believe that was the hammer.

[Wickedestjr]

* - that new kill method is a concern (multiscum is back into play), but I can't rule out that it's from Jupiter Mafia sending a new player to kill.

I don't understand what you are saying here. Can you elaborate please?

xRx, Vaya and Kise are dead.

I still like my vote from yesterday:

Vote: Raivann

"Died of blood loss" ...?

Looks like there may be three anti-town factions then. Probably an SK and two groups. This is really confusing. I'm going to have to think this over.

[Wickedestjr]

EBWOP: Okay, nvm Tar, I understand what you are saying, but you are forgetting that we know MonkeyMan most likely killed SensFan, but he wasn't capable of doing any of the other kills for Jupiter, because he got lynched the next day. So, we know that two different Jupiter Mafia (including Monkey) made the first two kills, yet both kills were shots, so I don't think that is correct.

Also, I can't see any reason for RBTtown to vote Tar:

FoS: RBT

[Wickedestjr]

Also,

mod,

what's the news on Slicey?

[ Still looking for a replacement. -Mod ]

[Wickedestjr]

Firstly,

Unvote: Raivann

for now. I think Raivann is Jupiter Mafia and an unrevealed faction is probably our biggest concern. I don't think that they would be capable of winning by tomorrow, because the unrevealed faction can't wipe out both the SK and Jupiter Mafia during the night, but they can do it in two nights, and when we find one of them, the rest will be slightly easier, because we can take interactions into account.

As for set-up, there are several possibilities I'm considering:

Sk/unrevealed/Jupiter

1/2/4
1/3/3
1/3/4
1/4/3

If I had to choose I would guess that the setup was 1/3/3, and if that is true, then that means only one Jupiter is left so if we lynched the last one, then the unrevealed faction would only become more powerful. Also, if that really is the setup, then town outnumbers scum currently, but we most likely won't by tomorrow.

RBT is a person I'd be willing to lynch. Her attack of Tar is pretty bad. She says this:

Tar is specifically Jupiter Mafia because Tar only wants to hunt Jupiters, but is incessantly focused on Rai, who is probably scum, but not Jupiter IMO.

But I remember the case on Raivann containing a few points regarding Raivann's interactions with Exalt and Monkey.

Ok, first let me clear something up: one of Reckoner and Tar are almost certainly scum. Both have claimed some form of UNK-ability and that is a huge red flag. I'm not sure which is which, but if the scum are looking for cross kills these are logical targets to be looking at.

This isn't necessarily true. We had two investigative roles. Who says we can't have two protective roles?

[Wickedestjr]

Tar's points against RBT are convincing. I am always very suspicious of extremely irrational behavior, but before I vote, I think I may need to look at the players that are still alive and try to find some possibilities for unrevealed faction. Specifically, I feel like I need to give zoraster, Trumpet of Doom, and Socrates each another look.

I'm not convinced about Merkabah being scum at the moment.

[Wickedestjr]

@Merkabah, I'm not sure. This game most likely has enough to scum to make it unbalanced for us.

[Wickedestjr]

EBWOP - muh investigated xRx

[Wickedestjr]

After reading RBT in iso, I only like the lynch even more.

Monkey took his early case far too serious. It was a weak case, which is fine for getting the game moving. But if he was just trying to get the game moving, he would have known that and not been so utterly convinced of it.

Thank you for recognizing this. I stated several times that my case was being exaggerated. It was never meant to be taken as a "me or him" situation. I was not "utterly convinced". I use my words with conviction and use my votes liberally, even in early game. Putting pressure on people gets reactions, and that was my ultimate goal.

Pads gave MM an easy out, and he took the bait. Please, MM, show me these "several times" when you said you were exaggerating your case just to put pressure on him.

Agreed. Pads is a likely 3rd scum on the team.

When you made this comment, who were the other two players you were talking about?

Exalt's reveal makes Merk at least not Jupiter Mafia. We don't know if there's a second one in the game, but the label would seem to indicate as such. That said, I still like a MM lynch.

In the above quote, RBT seems to be trying to show that she doesn't know if there is another scumgroup, yet in her next post:

I see the case on swimmer, but Exalt being on his wagon makes me leery. I guess I could get behind a wagon on his replacment, but there wouldn't be much fire to it.

Reminder, odds are there are two scum factions. There's no reason to discredit scum hunting scum.

She seems to be pretty confident. Looks like she's trying to convince Socrates into joining the swimmer scrutiny.

Ah.

Riceball, your example is in no way analagous to anything relevant to this situation, sorry.

Think of Merk as the Cop, and Exalt as the dead scum (PS, he's already dead, and we know he's scum). The only difference here is that there's no way there's a remote chance for a bus. There's really no reason to NOT trust Merk, at least as far as hunting Jupiters.

(He could still be unrevealed, but we'll deal with that later

).

The bolded portion in the above quote is the part I wanted to highlight. Shows that RBT is more interested in hunting Jupiter scum.

Do you really think there are five in the Jupiter Mafia? Or is this a hint that you have some kind of hidden info as well Merk?

I don't give this point much merit, but I get the impression that she doubts that there are five Jupiter Mafia. It would make sense to doubt this if she was part of a group as it would make the town very unbalanced, or because maybe her group has less members.

While I understand why people want to lynch Muh, I don't see the reasoning for lynching him now, when there are more likely scum to lynch. He may be contentless, but he's doing far better than other people, such as Empking. It feels like right now people are trying to push an easy wagon. I'd rather see a lynch on Anna or Rec right now.

This comment contradicts her having an earlier suspicion of swimmer.

I also highly doubt there's a six-person scumteam alive at this stage (if Mafia + SK instead of 2 Mafia, then I could see a realistic six-person team, but that's not likely the case).

IT would make sense to have this doubt if she was part of a scumgroup herself.


Also, some unrelated points are that I have noticed some incredibly bad attacks along with the attack of Tar:

Know I haven't been the least bit productive, but I'm taking

V/LA until Sunday afternoon due to Thanksgiving and all that jazz.

Umm.. I won't park my vote. Chances are the day will still be going on when I return.

Mind at least saying who you're suspicious of?

FoS:Kise

Any more flavour on that claim, Cyber?

Thanks for claiming scum!

HoS:Dev

I'm still going to continue looking at other players, but I am pretty sure about her being unrevealed scum now.

Vote: RBT

[Wickedestjr]

Wait a second. Hasn't Pads shown that xRx is confirmed town? Some players seem to still believe that he is SK. I'm confused.

As for the setup, I've been thinking of another possibility. What if the other kill is due to a cult group. Don't cult recruiters have the choice to either recruit or kill during the night. Maybe they chose to recruit the first three nights and now don't want to take any more risks of accidentally picking scum during the night so have decided to kill. I don't know how common cults are in large normals, but the situation seems to point towards that possibility. Thoughts?

[Wickedestjr]

I'm back and I need to catch up.

[Wickedestjr]

Let's see how bad it is:

- IIoA (no attempt to hunt for who might be in such a hypothetical cult)
- Fearmongering about a possible new scumgroup (STRONG unrevealed tell)
- Fearmongering about a role that is PATENTLY not normal (as FIRMLY evidenced by Mafia 92) in a Normal game (so trying to stir up concern about a possibility that CANNOT EXIST).

That combination up there? It's LYNCHWORTHY. And your head is going to meet the noose on a future day if I have anything to say about it.

-I was voting RBT. That was because I thought she was part of an unrevealed group. I wanted to see what people thought about my idea before I jumped to conclusions. What is wrong with that?
- Can you explain this point? I don't get it.
- I don't know how normal cults are. That was one of the reasons why I asked what you guys thought.

[Wickedestjr]

Tar, wasn't your main case against Raivann revolved around his interactions with Exalt and Monkey?

I have to say that I am starting to believe that there is only one group. It seems like too big of a coincidence that the shot and blood loss kills have never occurred on the same night. I'm starting to think its because they are both from the same group. I still need to think it over.

Since I know I'm town and am pretty sure about xRx being town, that leaves 6 people from my PoV:

Socrates
Pads
Tar
Raivann
zoraster
dana


I still believe that Tar and Pads are town, and Raivann is probably Jupiter Mafia. That leaves Socrates, zoraster, and dana. As for dana, I think he is extremely scummy, but I have seen him do much stupider things as town, so it doesn't bother me. I also have trouble seeing him go after Tar as scum. That leaves Socrates and zoraster. Come to think of it, neither of them have done anything very townie imo and I could easily imagine either/both of them being scum. I'm going to look at their interactions with eachother, Monkey, and Exalt.

Could everybody that hasn't give their ideas about the setup please?

[Wickedestjr]

I'm sorry for not posting recently. I've been extremely busy lately and a majority of my time online has been spent in the game I'm modding. I will try to post some content tomorrow.

[Wickedestjr]

Something about this doesn't seem like town motivations. It seems like either SK looking for unrevealed or Jupiter looking for unrevealed... OR if there IS no unrevealed, it looks like Jupiter trying to throw town off its trail.

How do you get this impression? At the time it was best for everybody to be going after the unrevealed, so I don't understand why that quote makes me scum.

I believe Tar to be town, because I get the impression that he is actually looking for scum. He has brought up good points and I generally find his posts interesting.

I believe Pads to be town for similar reasons.

I think Raivann is Jupiter Mafia, because that is what Tar's case demonstrated.

Ouch, that really hurts.

Sorry.


dana, what about xRx's assessment do you agree with?

What do you guys think about Zoraster?

High chance of being scum.

If he is Jupiter Mafia, there probably isn't a second faction (yes, I consider that a possibility at this point; if there's only Jupiter Mafia, Pads is in it); otherwise, he's unrevealed.

Where do you come to these conclusions?

Wicked has gotten by the whole game without doing anything, not to mention how blatantly bad his posts are.

I'm surprised you are saying this applies to me rather than Raivann who actually hasn't done anything.

I would like to hear Pads', Wickedest's, Zoraster's, and Dana's opinion of Raivann.

I think Raivann is Jupiter Mafia, because of his interactions with the Jupiters that have died. I am not sure if he would be scum if he wasn't Jupiter though.

[Wickedestjr]

Pads brings up good points about Zoraster and... despite my town read, even Tar.

My opinion on Raivann: not scum. He could be SK for acting so strangely, but is probably town. I currently have a lot of suspicion of Wicked (for lurking) and of Tar(for reasons mentioned above) and if I had to pick a third: xRECKONERx.

I wasn't lurking, I've just been very busy. If you look at my other game you'll notice I'm catching up in it too. Also, this wasn't a reason xRx gave in his assessment and you said that is why you are suspicious of me.

As for xRx, he is pretty much confirmed town.


@xRx - I disagree with your opinion that I haven't posted any content, but I plan to post some analysis once I'm completely caught up.


I was thinking and I just thought of a PadsSK possibility. It is easy to appear town as SK because you have to hunt scum anyway. Anyway, the reason I thought of this is because it looks like Pads might have made those nks to frame Tar. I'll need to think about this a bit more though when I get the chance.

[Wickedestjr]

"because of his interactions with the Jupiters that have died" is a poorly executed, vague reason. Please give better reasons. WHAT about his interactions, exactly?

Also, you contradict yourself in the same post:

I think Raivann is Jupiter Mafia, because of his interactions with the Jupiters that have died. I am not sure if he would be scum if he wasn't Jupiter though.

I think Raivann is Jupiter Mafia, because that is what Tar's case demonstrated.

Tar's case demonstrated Raivann was Jupiter Mafia because of his interactions with the Jupiters that have died. No contradiction.

[Wickedestjr]

zoraster is at L-1. Somebody needs to unvote. Once that has happened, zoraster needs to tell us if he is SK or not.

[Wickedestjr]

@ALL: Who here would oppose a lynch on one of those two?

I think I would be fine with a zoraster lynch, but I'm not sure about a dana lynch.


@Socrates and Zoraster - Why am I scum?

[Wickedestjr]

(Yes, I realize the kills might have been randomized once a kill wasn't sent in, but the choice of targets indicates that they were not randomly chosen).

The kills didn't look random to me. Also, didn't you say Slicey wasn't SK because he hadn't been around?

Eh? Never in my life have I asked people to take votes off of my scum picks, 'proper play' be damned.

Is this referencing me telling people to unvote zoraster?

Tar seems to be genuinely looking for scum and trying to sort out this mess. That leaves a few options:

A) He's town prison guard trying to stop either scum from winning.
B) He's Jupiter Prison Guard trying to figure out who is unrevealed (because a wrong lynch means a loss, IIRC.)
C) He's SK-Prison Guard trying to find scum for the same reasons.

No matter which case it is - I don't think Tar should be lynched today. No matter which of the three cases it is above, he's an asset to town simply because he's trying to lynch scum just like we are.

I don't like this reasoning. I guess if I couldn't choose between two players, this might be a good factor to consider, but otherwise I don't think it is a good idea. By that reasoning we might as well just lynch Raivann.

I am currently working on my analysis.

[Wickedestjr]

Dana, do you know how to read players in isolation?

xRx, I've said several times that I'm working on a post that should be more helpful. Please be patient.

[Wickedestjr]

Okay that's the lynch.

@Socrates - I only wanted zoraster at L-2 before he claimed, because if he claimed SK, then scum could hammer and win the game. Did you want that to happen?


Also, just in case I die, I will post my analysis that I have typed so far.

[Wickedestjr]

First of all, I am of the belief that this game consists of Jupiter Mafia and an SK. I realized at the start of this day that it was too big of a coincidence that the blood loss kills and shots never occurred on the same night for five nights in a row. The maximum possible size of Jupiter Mafia right now is four people. If there were more then it would be impossible for anybody else to win. This means that there is a maxmium of 5 scum left in the game. I know that I am town and xRx is most likely town also. That leaves six people:

dana, Pads, Raivann, Socrates, Tar, and Zoraster.


I am pretty sure there are 3-4 Jupiter left in the game, so that means 4-5 scum left in the game total from the above list. Also, as Pads pointed out, WarWound and Slicey weren't around to have done the SK kills, so that means neither zoraster nor dana is the SK. That means:


Possible Jupiters:

dana
Pads
Raivann
Socrates
Tar
zoraster


Possible SKs:

Pads
Raivann
Socrates
Tar


I think at the moment, hunting down the rest of Jupiter Mafia should be our main priority during the day at least until circumstances change.

danakillsu:

Firstly, I don't think his refusal to claim means anything. He would have only had eleven minutes to skim the whole thread because that is how long it took him to claim. Keep in mind he claimed only 6 minutes after Socrates encouraged him too. I seriously doubt that is enough time. I see this as a null tell. Also, I am pretty sure he didn't read the thread at the time of the claim, because even in his next post, he fails to acknowledge that Tar is a Jailkeeper when he is discussing that 3 of the people who voted swimmer had special roles.

Secondly, dana seems to bring up many points that don't make any sense whatsoever. I think these instances are all just newbtells apart from one:

swimmer4lyfe(5) - Tarhalindur, Empking, Exalt, MonkeyMan576, RayFrost

What do you know? Two of these guys are mafia, and one was a tracker! What about the rest of them? This group seems to be positively rife with special roles. I think we should look carefully at Tarhalindur and Empking (Now Trumpet of Doom). Especially Tarhalindur.

I can't help but get the impression that he is on the look out for special roles. Normally this wouldn't be an issue if he had read the thread and knew who the power roles were, but his posts reek of not having read the thread (he doesn't even acknowledge that Tar is a special role) which also looks scummy to me which brings me to the third thing I'd like to talk about:

He hasn't read the thread. Firstly, the example in the post I quote above he doesn't seem to know Tar's role. Secondly, he lists xRx as scum even though xRx has been pretty much proven innocent. Thirdly, none of his posts have talked about anything that has happened in the game thus far.

Another thing I noticed upon a thorough iso read was this:

My opinion on Raivann: not scum. He could be SK for acting so strangely, but is probably town.

This doesn't seem real to me. If Raivann's strange behavior that dana is referring to can make him SK, why can't it make him Jupiter Mafia?


Despite the scummy things dana has done, it doesn't look to me like dana is making an effort to fly under the radar, which I think an inexperienced player would as scum. I would like dana to try and defend himself, but I actually still think he is town. If he's not town then he has to be Jupiter Mafia though.

Pads:

After reading Pads in iso he seems scummy due to a few questionable things.

A few times Pads has responded to accusations in this manner:

Pads gave MM an easy out, and he took the bait. Please, MM, show me these "several times" when you said you were exaggerating your case just to put pressure on him.

Grats, Monkeyman. Someone fell for it.

I don't agree with xRx's accusation, but Pads seems to try to just shake it off. He also seems to feel the need to show he isn't worried about it. He does the same thing later here:

Pads is Jupiter Mafia BTW.

Hurray, that was easy!

Next, either Pads reads are inconsistent, or they change a lot, because in post 1 he says he likes xRx and is content with Cyberbob, but then in post 7 he votes Cyberbob, and in post 9 he says xRx may be a buddy. What happened?


Another thing:

Empking, despite the contentless Swimmer vote, is likely not Exalt or MonkeyMan's scum buddy. If Exalt had the nards to defend self-destructing scumbuddy MonkeyMan, then there's no reason to think he'd feel forced to bus Empking for his (Empking's) play.

You say this, yet you were attacking me for my interactions with Exalt earlier. That seems odd to me.


Next, as RBT pointed out, Pads made a case on RBT and then voted Annachie who was already a popular candidate. I didn't really have a problem with this, but I did find his explanation for doing so questionable:

So, sitting off in my own corner waving the flag of my own personal pet lynch would be more constructive and beneficial to the town, hmm? I'm far more concerned with the folks that conspicuously have nothing to say about the biggest wagon. Personally, I think it's a pretty good case. If you think it's a bad case, then say so.

He says this yet, he voted me earlier despite getting hardly any support or comments.

Zoraster - His vote is a 180 flip from yesterday, but he hasn't actually called muh scummy. Looks like testing the wagon to me, always good for town points in my book.

This is scummy considering Pads uses this against zoraster later in the game.

And the Tar vote is terrible. You and your scumteam know you can't kill Tar at night (I've already explained why I think Tar is almost certainly town), so you're trying to lynch him for whatever reason you can fabricate (No chance that a townie Doctor/Roleblocker would be 'highly interested' in protecting himself, eh?).

I think someone else mentioned it today, but Tar is also not the Serial Killer unless something immensely funky is going on, due to what looks like a blocked kill on Night 3 at the same time someone was brutally murdered.

Yet, later Pads brings up several reasons to suspect Tar as SK only a few posts later.


Overall, Pads has been extremely pro-town throughout the game, but after reading him a bit more thoroughly there seem to be many inconsistencies. One of these inconsistencies is his suspicions. After thinking it through I see good reason to believe he is scum. The seven people in the game apart from Pads are: me, xRx, Tar, Raivann, Socrates, zoraster, and dana. He has displayed suspicion of me, xRx, and Raivann slightly (did I miss anybody). xRx became confirmed town. He found things that pointed to me and Raivann possibly being town. ScumPads would probably think that he has to change his suspects. He chose Tar and zoraster. But, he has used a point against zoraster that he had previously said made him town, and has brought up things that point to TarSK despite insisting Tar isn't the SK earlier. This strikes me as very odd, as if ScumPads has trapped himself into a corner in which he has to change his mind about things.

I have to say, I am glad that I gave Pads another/closer look, because now I think he is scum. I have trouble imagining this behavior coming from SK, as sensible SK play would probably be to play like town and look for the scum, so I think I am leaning toward Jupiter Mafia who played a great game. As for my suggestion earlier about PadsSK trying to frame Tar, I don't give that theory as much credibility anymore because I think a smart player like Pads would hope for somebody else to point out that kind of thing instead of pointing it out himself, as he would look bad if it was a mislynch. If he wasn't Jupiter, then I don't know if he is SK or town.

[Wickedestjr]

@zor - I apologize if you've already explained this, but why do you choose dana instead of Socrates or Raivann?

[Wickedestjr]

Why are people unvoting zoraster?

[Wickedestjr]

Recieved prod for not posting in the last 25 hours.

I don't understand how I went from dana's vote to not scum according to post 1439. dana, can you please explain? Also, please don't ignore the questions in my analysis of you.

1: So do you think that if town votes no lynch, they lose? 2: If not, could it be best to leave it to the SK?

Possibly. If there are 4 scum left in Jupiter which there could be, then a no lynch could lose us the game. We would be putting the game in the SK's hands, and I'm not a fan of that idea.


Also, can somebody please explain why zoraster is suddenly town. If it is because of his vanilla town claim after supposedly being lynched, then what happened to this:

sure. Vanilla Townie. I assume you're scum?

I don't believe you, but Fuck, if true. (Last time we played the "Your lynched, whats your role?" game, he was a scumbag and just lied for the hell of it)

If zoraster is town, Then the SK MUST hit a scumbag tonight (might I suggest Dana?) and Tar MUST be town and MUST jailkeep correctly.

?

Honestly, I like the zoraster lynch more than the dana lynch, and I don't understand the sudden switch.

[Wickedestjr]

dana, are you the SK?

[Wickedestjr]

It looks like this is the lynch for today even if I'm not the one that hammers:

Vote: dana

.

[Wickedestjr]

Also, I will have limited access the next few days.

[Wickedestjr]

Well, that was one fast day. (Raivann hammered)

I have to say, Socrates reads on me are extremely inconsistent. First he said he thought I was Jupiter. Then he said he thought I was town. Then he voted me. What's the deal?

Concerning the setup, there is an sk and two mafia. No more mafia, because that would mean xRx would have to be mafia, which I doubt. That means Socrates, Tar, and Raivann are all scum, but only one of them is the SK. Raivann's quickhammer without any content looks to me like mafia trying to hit the SK, which might mean Socrates is his buddy. If that is the case we lose, so I have to assume otherwise and guess that Tar is mafia. That means Raivann probably is SK since Tar would've bussed his buddy really hard, and that leaves Socrates as a partner.

So my thoughts on the setup:

Jupiter Mafia: Tar, Socrates
SK: Raivann

[Wickedestjr]

Wow! This was an awesome game. Congratulations xRx! You played a great game. Even if you hadn't been supposedly confirmed town, you probably still would've fooled me. For now on, I'm going to be more cautious when dealing with "confirmed town".

As my first game with this allignment, I was a bit frightened. I didn't want to screw up because it was the only game out of ten games in which I had recieved a scum role pm. Eight pages into the game with town already having figured out two of my buddies, I thought Jupiters were screwed. Fortunately, I think the bussing worked because I seemed to fly under the radar the first few days. Day 5 the blood loss kill actually convinced me that there was another group so I actually started scumhunting and came up with some points to help push the RBT lynch. Then day 6, I realized we were doing well and I gained confidence, but I also realized that I was being extremely unhelpful for a townie so I brought up the points against Pads. I feel like I didn't actually bring up much good posting until then, because I thought it would be difficult until I actually gave it a shot.

I really enjoyed playing with my buddies though. Pads especially because he played very well. I'm looking forward to playing with most of the people in this game in the future.

I am glad that my first game as scum I died due to being endgamed.

BTW, I am also amused with Raivann. He nearly died day 4, and made it all the way to the end anyway. That wasn't because of me, it was either Pads or we were lucky.

Thanks to Xyl and to SpyreX, I would've hated to end this game without seeing who won.

[Wickedestjr]

BTW,

It was my idea to kill Kise. He seemed to be the biggest threat.

Thanks to Percy also! It was nice to have a good player covering for me temporarily.

Also, we got extremely lucky with the Glork kill. We killed him because of the Snow_Bunny kill which wasn't actually him, but he targetted Snow_Bunny anyway.

[Wickedestjr]

The Quicktopic: http://www.quicktopic.com/43/H/3akaznxk9Yg

[Wickedestjr]

There was a Dead Man's QT? Can somebody post it?

[Wickedestjr]

It's not your fault the investigation wasn't accurate. Reck was investigation immune.