NY 114: Mafia vs. Werewolves (Game Over)

[Vi]

boomshakalaka

i signed up for this game to stalk Vi

Why would you do that?

I joined this game to stalk Unsight

I don't want to say anything relevant until the Day begins (specifically, until scumtalk has probably ended).

[Vi]

Dissenting comment.

It's fine to give general Town reads. Identifying Townies is just as important (and at times easier) than finding scum. I don't buy the "directing the NK/clueing the scum in" argument tbqh; I have to wonder from where people are hearing it.~

Putting out a ranked 23-tier list will not only get you a citation on Internet dictionaries under "over the top", it will also prove to be too foggy to work better than just saying "____ is Town/scum" (especially around the middle) and will take up way too much of your time, especially with the image tags. This is coming from someone who has been nominated for a title for being OCD. Don't bother with it.

Also, and on a more personal note - I appreciate that you feel that you're on top of the game and are playing like an IC, in a sense. With that said, I don't think it has worked for you yet ITT. Don't overdo it. :takeiteasy:

Last, I have to agree that I find your avatar unsatisfactory. What do you want it to be?

[Vi]

Your new avatar: I don't understand what it's meant to represent. Clue me in.

Play Super Smash Bros. Or just google it. You'll run into that symbol eventually.

Sort of leery of being ranked up in the top by SSBF. I don't know whether he's trying to suck up because I don't really trust him or what.

...It's in alphabetical order. *hits you with frying pan*

[Vi]

@mod: May we go ahead and start without the last person?

I'm getting kind of impatient in the way of wanting to lynch some people.

[Vi]

@mod: May we go ahead and start without the last person?

I'm getting kind of impatient in the way of wanting to lynch some people.

[Vi]

@mod: May we go ahead and start without the last person?

I'm getting kind of impatient in the way of wanting to lynch some people.

Pleeeeeeease?

Also, RVS is lame and pointless unless the players are entertaining. Unfortunately, on this site entertaining RVSs aren't that common. >_>

[Vi]

Also and in the interest of getting my own notes in order, if I could get everyone to answer this exhaustive and highly scientific questionnaire:

*How many games have you finished, here or elsewhere? (I don't particularly need to know details here)
*Do you consider yourself an experienced player?
*Are we there yet?
*How about now?

[Vi]

@mod: May we go ahead and start without the last person?

I don't want to start the game yet, because I want to give players with the ability to nighttalk enough time to discuss strategy. Nothing is keeping you from actually discussing the game, of course

Lowell is the only player who hasn't confirmed yet.

Their loss if they aren't punctual

Also, Lowell totally confirmed in-thread a while ago. Are you going to hold him to the letter of the law?

[Vi]

I continue to be disappointed with the scum's ability to daytalk.

Reserving comment for time being.

[Vi]

Vote: Seraphim

and

FoS: nhammen

because they didn't post during pre-game period.

Do you think any of the people who DID post during pregame are scummy?

[Vi]

The more Parama talks, the more I want to rescind my initial Town read on him and/or smack him through the Internet.

SSBF is most likely naive VI-Town. Emphasis on all of naive, VI, and Town.

I don't know if Chronopie is

trying

to look scummy, or if this is just normal, but stuff like 131 makes me twitch.
My favorite scumhunting tool told me "

Prediction hazy, ask again

".

But let's take a look elsewhere at what I was seeing earlier.
askbob, vezopiraka, SGRaaize, and LynchMePlz all softly egged on the SSBF wagon without actually taking the active role Parama did and/or tried to use their own "unique" brand of arguments against SSBF (askbob 65, vezo 77, LMP's MASSIVE fence-sit in 88). The chance of all of them being Town is nil.

My vote's going to the one who IMO had the most weak comments of them all

on top of

lurking in New York while not posting earlier. (I've already looked at the other games in this subforum; he's not in any of them.)

Vote: vezopiraka

(L-11)

[Vi]

@Vi: Check my Sig. 'nuff said.

I already have.~

Talking of which, Parama's sig is full of LIES. LIES I TELL YOU.

[Vi]

First Post Mind H4x: Seraphim is scum

[Vi]

Random.org says

vote Vezopiraka

But what does The Goat say?

(don't answer "baaa-aa-aah"; I already learned that from my Speak and Say a long time ago)

[Vi]

First Post Mind H4x: Seraphim is scum

You're just scared of my elite scum hunting mind games which of course only scum would have reason to fear.

Here's a mind game for you.

Hi guys. I agree with Vi,

You agree with me only so far as it lets you avoid the not-likely-to-succeed wagon on SSBF, but you don't agree with me about Parama or anyone else, including the really big point I made about vezo. Your excuse for not looking at the "wagon" is hideous, considering
*it shows you didn't bother to read much of the thread; i.e. hunt scum
*it shows again that you agreed with me but didn't actually read my post, because I already did it for you!

Humor and fluff makes you likable ^.^ but doesn't help at all.

Or in shorter and more compact terms, First Post Mind H4x.

[Vi]

*lame attempt to discredit Vi*

ok

@Unsight 155: The former is a reference to the Magic 8 Ball. The latter is something held over from Rainbow Robot etc.

It seems like you're trying to draw more attention to your post than might have gotten otherwise.

W...hat kind of accusation is this?

[Vi]

But let's take a look elsewhere at what I was seeing earlier.
askbob, vezopiraka, SGRaaize, and LynchMePlz all softly egged on the SSBF wagon without actually taking the active role Parama did and/or tried to use their own "unique" brand of arguments against SSBF (askbob 65, vezo 77, LMP's MASSIVE fence-sit in 88). The chance of all of them being Town is nil.

I like this fence. I think SSBF is either scummy or over eager town, and I haven't made up my mind yet. I also think egging the whole thing on has been good for town. I'd be surprised if Parama AND SSBF are both town. I wanted to see how it shakes out.

Go ahead and talk more about this. Why is it unlikely that Parama and SSBF are both Town?

My vote's going to the one who IMO had the most weak comments of them all on top of lurking in New York while not posting earlier. (I've already looked at the other games in this subforum; he's not in any of them.)

I dont get the argument against vezopiraka, can you explain it again? What do you mean by lurking in NY? Do you mean he was lurking in pre-game? Which comments were weak?

ALL of his comments have been weak, without exception. #0 and #1 were just egging on the existing argument between Parama and SSBF without actually adding anything. #2 is a laughable excuse for an argument against SSBF's list. #3 looks like another attempt to attack the list, though at this point it's a pretty easy target.

Yes, he was lurking pregame in this forum. Watching stuff going on ITT, not posting.

Would you like to place a vote?

---

Huh. Well, it's an observation. You didn't use colors like that in your last several games or at all in fact. Blue and purple text certainly did catch my attention though so I was wondering if that was the purpose.

"Last several games"? I thought I was supposed to be the one stalking you
Come on, I really don't want to have a repeat of the last game. (Unless you're scum.) What have you noticed going on ITT that scum are more likely to do?

[Vi]

Huh. Well, it's an observation. You didn't use colors like that in your last several games or at all in fact. Blue and purple text certainly did catch my attention though so I was wondering if that was the purpose.

"Last several games"? I thought I was supposed to be the one stalking you
Come on, I really don't want to have a repeat of the last game. (Unless you're scum.) What have you noticed going on ITT that scum are more likely to do?

That would depend on SSBF's alignment wouldn't you say?

No, not really. SSBF isn't the only focal point of this game.

I didn't recall seeing colors in any of Vi's recent threads so it was worth asking why.

That's odd. I'm very close to a game that's

heavily flavored around

color. You can even see its effects on my wiki page. Lay off the sauce

---

So. I still am in the RVFSRS. Randomly voting for stupid reasons stage.

Please get out of it.

---

vezopiraka (4): askbob, Vi, The Goat, nhammen
Do you think he's scum?
If you do Why?

Read the thread plz.
I'll go ahead and ask the obvious question - Why are you prioritizing vezo defense over everything else going on ITT?

---

SSBF and Parama wagons are still the choices of n00bs and scum.

[Vi]

@vi: Why are you accusing me of lurking? What would you expect me to post?
Making a wagon on just for my pregame posts is not helpful maybe only for the scum.

Oh, anything useful and anything to suggest that you're not just watching and reporting to the QuickTopic.

If making a wagon on pregame posts isn't helpful, why are two of the top three wagons right now SSBF and Parama?

As for the questions
1)played some games on another site. Another one here. And a lot in real life.
2)Yes I consider myself epxerienced

Oh so there's no excuse for your play then.

---

Vi had intended to reserve comment, and then made several posts.

I got impatient, and I don't want the Parama/SSBF wagons to go so far that they can't be stopped given the Town reads I have on them.
In all probability I'm only going to be in this game for a limited time (never mind recent history <___< ). I don't want the scum to be able to "prepare" for me while they have daytalk.

[Vi]

I don't agree with SerialClergyman's reasons for voting leafsnail, but the line about daniel is bad enough that I don't mind the vote.

Unvote: vezopiraka

Vote: LynchMePlz

(L-11)
Either n00bier than SSBF, or scum flailing. Which is it?~

[Vi]

The more Parama talks, the more I want to rescind my initial Town read on him and/or smack him through the Internet.

SSBF is most likely naive VI-Town. Emphasis on all of naive, VI, and Town.

I don't know if Chronopie is

trying

to look scummy, or if this is just normal, but stuff like 131 makes me twitch.
My favorite scumhunting tool told me "

Prediction hazy, ask again

".

But let's take a look elsewhere at what I was seeing earlier.
askbob, vezopiraka, SGRaaize, and LynchMePlz all softly egged on the SSBF wagon without actually taking the active role Parama did and/or tried to use their own "unique" brand of arguments against SSBF (askbob 65, vezo 77, LMP's MASSIVE fence-sit in 88). The chance of all of them being Town is nil.

My vote's going to the one who IMO had the most weak comments of them all

on top of

lurking in New York while not posting earlier. (I've already looked at the other games in this subforum; he's not in any of them.)

Vote: vezopiraka

(L-11)

I was only curious about SSBF being very tense, I don't actually think he's scummy, but I definitely have an eye on him

Any new developments on him or anyone else?

[Vi]

I suspect Paramara for obvious reasons
Then, in what seems to be an overlooked suspicion, I suspect Lowell:

Which "obvious reasons" are those?
Why is Lowell scummy?

[Vi]

I suspect Paramara for obvious reasons
Then, in what seems to be an overlooked suspicion, I suspect Lowell:

Which "obvious reasons" are those?
Why is Lowell scummy?

First Question: Seriously?
Second Question: The quoted posts are scummy, IMO

1) Hellooooo, you're speaking to someone who called the fight Town vs. Town. Emphasis on Town (either one). Explain what you think is obvious, please.
2) Why are those quoted posts scummy? Just quoting it doesn't explain anything.

Contrary to what Leafsnail and Pomegranate have to say, I think a claim would most easily clear up this train wreck and provide a way to go further.
It's not like this isn't a Normal game, and it's not like he hasn't already softclaimed... something.

Pomegranate's posts don't look Town-driven.
The big wall touches on a lot of quotes without doing anything; the rest of the posts are mostly fluffy; the jump on daniel seems like the kind of awkward vote scum would make.

[Vi]

I feel sorry for you, stuck with 2 VIs as masonbuddies.

And I'll buy that claim because I don't see why you would've claimed otherwise.

This post. At least you're Masons and not Neighbors.

Is it just me, or are Mason groups the first thing to get outted in these forum games? I've read three or four games now, and I think in all but one the mason group outted themselves day 1.

Usually that winds up being the case, yes. Granted, it's partly because connected roles means more of a chance that a given lynchee will be a member of the group, but the last Large Normal I was in featured zwet-Mason. Hilarity did not ensue.

I don't know your experience with mafia so I can't say

[whether you are stupid or scummy]

. How many games have you played?

*politely points to the boxes beneath my name*

nhammen 257 is pretty much correct.

---
@
---

Useful posting: I'm going to go in this direction.

Unvote: LynchMePlz

Lynch: SGRaaize

(L-12)
Not buying his content up to this point.

[Vi]

I agree with

Jimbob

askbob on Seraphim's outing the entire mason group. Worst. Play. Ever. (exaggeration. maybe.)

...why?

The anti -mafia -werewolf roles were to be randomly distributed between town and opposing faction. So a mason could also be a cop.

...watt

---

I'd go on to say these are crocodile tears

, and that masons claiming D1 isn't a big deal.

Who are you referring to here?

[Vi]

Dr. Robotnik is probscum.

The Goat is coming pretty close to probscum.

I support foilist's first post, but I want to see vezo dig his own grave further before making a decision.

Unvote: SGRaaize
Vote: Dr. Robotnik

(L-12)

@Chronopie: Better than having the Masons fight needlessly and make themselves impossible to not lynch even after claiming, no?

[Vi]

Now you know why I thought your case was weaksauce, Vi. But now I'm not so sure. The play I have just witnessed is pretty terrible. If any of them is scum, it's Vezo, I'm fairly sure Daniel is town.

Fairly sure I agree with you on that one.

[Vi]

Does anyone find it weird that Vi tends to jump around vote a lot, especially when we're deep into a serious game that won't end until July 4th, 2010? He's doing it very quickly. First a vote on Vezopiraka, then LynchMePls, then SGRaaize, and finally Dr. Robotnik. On the last one, all he mentioned about Dr. Robotnik is that he's probably scum. I agree with Dr. Robotnik being scummy, but he didn't explain why.

I change my vote when I want to.

Dr. Robotnik has managed to be on the popular-at-the-time SSBF wagon, but hasn't actually said anything at all. I approve of this wagon.

In addition, out of the material wagon of {Chronopie, Parama, Unsight, Dr. Robotnik} on SSBF I think he's the one most likely to be scum. askbob and SGRaaize were also against SSBF but never voted for him, hence the SGR vote earlier.

FWIW, I have Town reads on the entire Parama wagon {Seraphim, Lowell, SSBF, LMP}. So etc.

[Vi]

The odds of any of

[the Masons]

being

mafia

are lower than any other player.

Shouldn't the bolded be "scum" in order to make your point relevant? (although I disagree rather much)
Though

Either way if they're anti-town or pro-town they'll probably be taken out. We shouldn't waste our time even thinking about lynching them. Instead we should be searching for someone more scummy and let the scum take each other out (if the masons are just lying mafia). Either way eliminating them does little for us.

I agree with this. I think vezo x daniel will take care of itself.

But along those lines, as mentioned before I disagree with LMP - vezo is the more likely scum between the two VIsons, and I'm curious as to why people are pushing or half-pushing daniel more.

@Vi - How good do you feel about your read on SSBF?

Quite a bit actually.
I take it you don't agree?

The Goat and Dr. Robotnik still haven't done anything to make me think they're something other than scum, so etc. ChronoCircleConstant could go either way tbh.

This thread needs more Sevis, SGRaaize, and Dry-fit.

[Vi]

(Sorry 'bout the triple posting)

I think vezo x daniel will take care of itself.

Why do you think that? One scum team or the other could decide the masons need to go, but why would they bother? These two are GREAT VI's to leave for the endgame. This whole mason fiasco has only cast doubt on them, and their claims are getting more and more fantastic. I don't forsee this situation handling itself.

This is a good point. The fact that they're not confirmed works against them (so it's not quite the same as the game I was thinking of where zwet-Mason decided to out himself D1). But I think we can still get away with not lynching them Today, and come back to them.

Vi is probably town, he's just prickly enough to convince me he's goign through his standard town opening.

:takeiteasy:
I forgot how to do Large games until a little while ago >.> There are too many mistakes and fallacies and goofs to run around correcting them all and rank them according to severity. I think the best way to play Today is to get an armful of Town reads and sway wagons off of them.

I do agree that if one of the masons flips werewolf, we should (probably, depends on circumstances) lynch another to make sure they're not a scumteam.

Do you think that a scumteam outing itself Day 1 under the guise of being Masons is likely or a clever gambit?

I don't think I agree with Unsight's vote tbh.

@all people who at one time voted daniel {Dr. Robotnik, Leafsnail, Sevis}:

Why did you vote daniel over vezo?

[Vi]

I think the current Wagon on DrRobotnik is useless, I don't find him suspicious at all

compared to the guys inside the supposed mason group aside from Seraphim

Vote: Daniel94581

Bolded: Why? (or rather, what do you think of the accusations against him?)
@daniel vote: Why daniel over vezo?

I think the Dr. Robotnik wagon is actually pretty awesome.

@Dry-fit

, who on the wagon is suspicious?

I don't disagree with Lowell accusing Sevis tbh. I keep getting the impression of an experienced player holding way way way back.

[Vi]

Catching up, and it seems like you had fun without me

I like how nhammen is continuing to validate SerialClergyman's point against him (lynch rolefishers, not scum). It's like the experienced players aren't even in this game~
So foilist was speculating on roles. All of those roles were so improbable that it wasn't remotely helpful to bring them up or consider them, let alone use them to mislead. If that's the basis for your vote over everyone else (not like you've mentioned many suspicions~), well, at least you're not fourth on the wagon like your first two votes (in your first two posts)~

I have no qualms with an nhammen wagon. The vast majority of his play up until he came under fire was in throwaway one-line responses to random posts. His attempt to defend "but foilist WAS rolefishing! and Chronopie wasn't" was kind of funny.

Oh, and something from common-sense-ville.
If someone says "I have a role with incriminating information; do you want me to reveal it", the answer is "yes, and why have you waited until now to talk about it". I don't have a problem with the people who have pecked into daniel's softclaim, vezo's attempt to softclaim, and LMP's softclaim - although the people who have attacked them for claiming (i.e. YOU'RE SUCH A MORON FOR CLAIMING) are unsavory at the least. Simply put, if you believe you have helpful information, don't just stand there and wave around that you have it but not tell what it is.

Chronopie's vote on nhammen is strange, and I'm surprised nobody has bothered to ask this question.

The fact that I'm online is worrisome? and agree with the points I would have made myself, had I been on earlier.

What about the points made against you? Y'know, the stuff that people are actually bothering with you about.

---

For Parama:

The entirety of The Goat's contributions, paraphrased for your convenience and pleasure:
1) *toss "random" vote that just happens to be on vezo*
2) I VOTE WHERE I WANT, I'M GROWN
3) WHY ARE YOU IDIOTS; YOUR CLAIMS ARE IN YIDDISH
Active lurking par excellence.

Dr. Robotnik is a-lurking to the point of being supremely useless. I don't like his SSBF vote and I don't like his daniel vote; both of them were easy marks.

SGRaaize is probably still scum.

SerialClergyman's posts make me smile. It feels like an age since I've been on the same page as someone.

Unvote: Dr. Robotnik

Vote: nhammen

(L-7)

[Vi]

@Vi: The rolefishing accusation?

The "you are scum with nhammen" argument. That would be a fairly significant part of the "points made" when you say "I agree wholeheartedly with the points made".

@nhammen's rebuttal against me -

No, he wasn't speculating. He was trying to get vezo to tell him what other role info he had. PERIOD.

...so? See previous post.

Sevis is reaching into obvscum territory with his vote and FoS.
I still think Dry-fit is suspect as well, because his list of suspects included askbob, Dr. Robotnik, and three obvTownies for a relatively weak reason.

pman and Pom-Pom need to exist.

I'm not Cajun enough to know what a casbah is.

[Vi]

I'm pretty sure Vezo completely wrecked the usefulness of the Monk and Mason groups.

This WAS the usefulness of the Monk/Mason groups.

[Vi]

nhammen, who is scum?

[Vi]

The wagon on me HAS to be scum driven. There is no way there could be this many mistakes unless there is a scum pushing them.

I doubt considerably that this wagon is scum-driven, at least at the beginning.
This may come as difficult to believe, but it's not implausible that a lot of Townies find you scummy for reasons you {don't/don't claim to} understand.

As it stands, why SGRaaize over the others?

@vezo: I can't say I have the same experience.

[Vi]

Interesting finds, both nhammen and Parama. Now that I re-read foilist's posts, he does seem to be rolefishing quite a bit: previously, I took this for him just trying to make sense of the game. I still don't get the feeling that he's scum, but I'm not too sure just yet.

Vezo really is contributing far less to the game than he could be, hinting at the role without any clarification only helps scum, as far as I can see.

The speed with which Chronopie jumped on the nhammen wagon does surprise me -- he seems to be hoping to put the focus away from him and thus be forgotten. This doesn't look like very pro-town play to me. I also have to agree that his attempts at rolefishing would cause more harm if they were successful (I see LMP's role and knowledge to currently be of more importance than vezo's).

FOS: Chronopie

Unvote; Vote: nhammen

Not only do you never mention anything about whether the nhammen wagon is

good

, you actually

compliment and agree with him

in the bolded.
Not a particularly intuitive way to put yourself ninth on the wagon... Especially since if you didn't know your vote was horrible, you didn't do it on purpose like someone fishing for reactions/pressure would... which means that you intended to lynch nhammen with this post as reasoning.

Unvote: nhammen

Vote: Sevis

(L-12)

I'm fine with assuming nhammen-Town for the time being.

[Vi]

Also, this post is ruining

Timeater's

fun by pointing out that the Eater of Tims has posted onsite within the last fifteen minutes, but is woefully absent ITT.

[Vi]

Yes, I was and still am not sure my reasoning is all too good. I agree with parts of the case nhammen built, but ``I still don't get the feeling that he's scum, but I'm not too sure just yet.''. nhammen has made me look at the situation from a new direction, but I didn't find that new perspective impressive enough to give me a town read on him. Thus, I saw the countercase presented by Parama and found it much more convincing. It was certainly better than the read I had on SGRaaize. I find that a wagon right now will probably not lead to a lynch, but will add a lot to the structure of the game, which will make it easier to take a look at everyone and understand the situation better. Thus: I did not and do not see my vote as making me `obvscum', but do see it having rather poor reasoning -- not the worst on the wagon, but of a lower standard than I would normally put out.

*words words words words*

While you did a good job of sounding intelligent here, what you said comes down to this.
"*I saw a huge wagon on nhammen, and while I agreed with him a lot I decided to jump on the hamwagon for <vague

post facto

reason>.
*This wagon is supposed to help find scum (when and if I choose to do it; now doesn't seem to be a good time) and "understand the situation better" (whatever that means).
*While my position on the wagon makes no sense, you should be looking at someone else who had worse reasoning because they are more likely to be scum.
*(Notice I still haven't said anything about why nhammen is scummy or why my vote is still on him, especially if I was allegedly just pressuring him.)"

Not buying it.

---

@Timeater: Well if you knew who Tanith was...
So when are you going to stop saying you're going to catch up and actually do it?

---

@Parama: The fifteen minutes part wasn't important. The fact that he was onsite and not posting here was important.

---

I actually kind of hate Leafsnail 478. The wagon started, built up, and ended while he wasn't around, so it's perfectly safe to generically attack it as a bad move without really doing anything about it except selectively target the most likely lynch to arise from the wagon's collapse. Also, askbob hasn't posted since vezo claimed.

[Vi]

Jesus H. Christ on a flying magical donkey.

[words that don't say anything]

unvote

vote: Chronopie

Chronopie has been the scummiest player in this confusing game by alot. Building a case against him is easy.

[If you're trying to think about that statement, relax - don't do it.]

[more words that don't say anything]

What the fuck Timeater are you on crack? Anyway, I need to pee.

Abridged for people on the go (so to speak).

Appropriate killing parties, please off Timeater sometime; plz & ty

[Vi]

@Vi: I don't think Lowell or Midnight are obvtown at all.

Well okay, Lowell looks good by his own standards and I'm probably the only person who thinks as much.
But there have been two separate instances where M-Sorrow has been called obvTown (by Lowell and SerialClergyman) and I agree with them. Why do you disagree with these reads?

Do you still like your vote on nhammen?

FoS: Vi

(for this post)

I am not psychic. If it were not for vezo's claims I would still be voting him for what he did until he claimed. :dealwithit:
I'm reading SSBF as n00bTown; I have been reading SSBF as n00bTown since more or less the beginning of the game. vezo's jump on SSBF was horrible. That it was SSBF in particular being wagoned didn't matter.

Now I'd like to ask everyone this question. How do we get out of this situation about monks/masons and start focusing on the main thing that matter, scum hunting?

You must be playing in an echo chamber; a lot of "everyone" has been over the Monks/Masons debacle for a while now
Talking of scumhunting, why are you still voting for Parama?

[Vi]

Talking of scumhunting, why are you still voting for Parama?

My vote is currently on Vezopiraka if you haven't seen the latest vote count.

My personal failure aside, I don't see how your vezo vote is any better
I think you need to look at the talk about the Masons and Monks again.~

[Vi]

Interesting finds, both nhammen and Parama. Now that I re-read foilist's posts, he does seem to be rolefishing quite a bit: previously, I took this for him just trying to make sense of the game. I still don't get the feeling that he's scum, but I'm not too sure just yet.

Vezo really is contributing far less to the game than he could be, hinting at the role without any clarification only helps scum, as far as I can see.

The speed with which Chronopie jumped on the nhammen wagon does surprise me -- he seems to be hoping to put the focus away from him and thus be forgotten. This doesn't look like very pro-town play to me. I also have to agree that his attempts at rolefishing would cause more harm if they were successful (I see LMP's role and knowledge to currently be of more importance than vezo's).

FOS: Chronopie

Unvote; Vote: nhammen

Not only do you never mention anything about whether the nhammen wagon is

good

, you actually

compliment and agree with him

in the bolded.
Not a particularly intuitive way to put yourself ninth on the wagon... Especially since if you didn't know your vote was horrible, you didn't do it on purpose like someone fishing for reactions/pressure would... which means that you intended to lynch nhammen with this post as reasoning.

Unvote: nhammen

Vote: Sevis

(L-12)

I'm fine with assuming nhammen-Town for the time being.

What?

I don't understand how you could do this reversal when you know there are two mafia groups.

And I don't understand how that makes you fine assuming nhammen town.

This whole post is pretty bizarre.

Bizarre posts are the only kind I make.~

I don't understand your first objection, so I'll move on to the second one.
Post 458 read like a frustrated Townie. The confusion, the disarray, the willingness to cuss out Parama. His doublepost adding pman to the group of lurkers suggests that he was actually trying to reread the game (although he hasn't come back yet after seven hours so etc.). Yes, I like falling for AtE.

[Vi]

Edit to previous post - Too much time spent in front of a bright screen means I lose my ability to think coherently.

I didn't assume nhammen-Town based on Sevis-scum, if that's what you were trying to say. The Sevis vote was me moving on from someone I finally got a Town read on.

[Vi]

Yep - confusion sorted.

Now we just need to unconfuse your emotional attachment to the monkey

*link to Bad Romance goes here*

Well, I wouldn't have gotten the Town read for no reason.

(Very little or superficial reason is still in the question though.)

I know it's an unusual question, but could you explain the scum thought process behind the post I mentioned? (nhammen #18, aka 458)

[Vi]

Vi - nhammen is a good player doing his best not to get lynched. He got caught out trying to play below the radar and making safe attacks. Now he's getting wagoned, so he's doing what he can to appear protown. It's not like typing that up would have taken a giant effort. There's no outrage, save that he thinks the wagon HAS to be scum driven. He also modestlyy suggests that 3 scum members from each team are on his lynch, which is almost certainly rubbish.

I'm getting scum-WIFOM and scum-asssaving way more than I'm getting picked on townie who's desperately fighting to the last to help his team.

Nya? I've only seen nhammen's name occasionally onsite, so if you're calling him a good player that puts a different spin on things. I expect the suggestion that he has picked out ALL of the scum from n00bs

and myself

, but not from someone experienced. Ditto the cry that his wagon is scum-pushed, although that's not me so much~

I can't say I agree with the lack of outrage, looking back over nhammen's ISO. Granted I've lost games because of this before (back when AtE was UncertainKitten's first and only line of defense as either alignment) but I can certainly see him as frustrated with the tsunami of votes.

Could you show me a game that's representative of nhammen's skill as you see it?

WIFOM and not desperately fighting for the team, in this game, well...

@Vi You left the nhammen wagon because of AtE plus his pointing out lurkers?

More the AtE. It works for VI-types.

[Vi]

Vi = VI?

Here's the game.

I also had a PM conversation about it with him afterwards and I feel he's a solid player, definitely not a VI.

I was referring to being able to

read

VIs, tyvm >.>

Sample post. In this game nhammen seems fairly comfortable and in control of himself, and makes his way to the point when he posts even if he doesn't post very often per se. (Also in this game Cruciare aka Moai Interceptor Cannons is my hero, but that's less important.)

While this game has gone like 8x as fast as that one, I can see how nhammen has been relying on emotion and much more simplistic attempts at scumhunting. I think there are more ?s and !s in 535 than the entire game you linked. And what else I noticed was that nhammen has the dubious achievement of never having been scum, so this kind of personality switch makes sense from that perspective.

About the claim - If you'll excuse me for seeming arrogant, I don't blame the relative newbies who think that all Roleblockers are scum-aligned and that Town Roleblockers are 95% guaranteed to be detrimental; I did that too until I learned better (a Roleblocker death here would mean less than a Roleblocker death later though; Town Roleblockers are better toward endgame).
However, there's another catch. Caught scum that have any idea what they are doing are expected to fakeclaim

anything

.

About what nhammen has said since SerialClergyman posted - He's still not going anywhere. Of all the people he could have voted for more information, he chose pman, who is least likely to gain a wagon (or directly give information). Lots of attempts at reads, none of which are particularly committal. It's scumhunting at its most ineffective.

I'll go with SC.

Unvote: Sevis

Vote: nhammen

(L-3)

---

askbob's recent posts make me wish I was a dayvig.

Sevis is continuing to reinforce my read that he's an experienced player sandbagging himself.

One of the games someone claimed roleblocker at the start of the last day. It turned out to be mafia roleblocker and when they don't say town roleblocker it makes me think mafia roleblocker. It's an important role for the mafia so it's best to lynch it.

I'm not saying that he is mafia roleblocker though.

So you're calling this a policy lynch?

Whether a roleblocker town role is useful or not....its still town? and therefore not scum?

Or have I missed some important memo?

If it actually is a Town Roleblocker, yes~
Noting whether that's the case or not is the important memo you missed~

[Vi]

The two that come off as scummiest imo are nhammen and chronopie, but the assertion that there cannot be a town roleblocker is just silly.

FOS nhammen

vote chronopie

Why Chronopie over nhammen?
(cut: I'm starting to like this vezo character~)

[Vi]

Why did you dislike Time's post to the point where you suggest that someone should kill him?

Not only was the post completely fluffy and useless, it would be the third time I've seen someone try to interject humor into their catch-up posts to make it more interesting for them to type. The first two people I've seen do it were scum (SerialClergyman saw the second time, when xRx did it).

By the way, insulting vezo doesn't count as content.

[Vi]

I've actually done it myself, back in EMerald mafia. I think you could argue that catchups are more boring for scum, because they're essentially faking the mental strain, so they turn to humour.

But to be honest, I'm not convinced it's that reliable a tell. We'd have to kill Spyrex all the time

I've been tempted to do it, I admit.

I think SpyreX is an exception because
*he always posts like that
*that's what makes him Awesome

---

Just saying that I'll do an analysis today on everyone,

Or you could just post when you do it.

---

But the only actually good arguments at all have been Serial's. Not one other player has had good arguments.

Also, Parama is not worse than charter. And he's certainly not worse than DeathNote.

By the way, there's a saying that defense is useless in Mafia. It's far better to find someone who needs to die more than you do.

Your posts in that Newbie game actually look nothing like your posts ITT. Seriously.

Incidentally, is Parama scum?

[Vi]

What is a VI? I know he's a player but someone said I'm a Vi so I'm confused

VI is an acronym for Village Idiot.

But if someone tells you you're a Vi, you're

really

doing it wrong

---

nhammen, what about what SerialClergyman said about you? I find that more compelling than what Parama said.

[Vi]

Not only was the post completely fluffy and useless, it would be the third time I've seen someone try to interject humor into their catch-up posts to make it more interesting for them to type. The first two people I've seen do it were scum (SerialClergyman saw the second time, when xRx did it).

By the way, insulting vezo doesn't count as content.

You know, repeating something over and over again doesn't make it true. Thats not how truth works. So sorry. If you haven't noticed, I tend to "inject" the funny into almost all my posts, so I dont see how your "oh look its one of dem scummers tryin to look amicable so we won't suspect nuttin'" point is valid.

Also, what about those other two? What do they have to do with me? How does what you interpret as their 'injecting humor into catchup posts' have anything to do with me doing it? Is that a tell on me or what?

Oh, don't worry about me forgetting to consider you as a special exception.
I *cough* remember your play before you left, and if I didn't I know a couple of people who will certainly remember your play in Dwarf Fortress Mafia.

With that said, kuribo and to a lesser extent xRECKONERx weren't that different from you personality-wise, so etc..

While I'm not sure what you mean about me repeating things, I'm sure nobody thinks you're amicable either. Or not suspicious if they've considered it.

---

Now obligatory mod gaming from me. Lowell is scum. If anyone knows how I deduced this gets 6 vez points.

Or you could tell us...

Now obligatory mod gaming from me.

Lowell is scum. If anyone knows how I deduced this

gets 6 vez points.

Because it takes one to know one?

So you're saying you're scum because vezo is scum?

---

I remember getting a Town read from Chronopie, but I'm not really sure where looking at him in isolation. And I'm getting cold feet on nhammen again. Let's try this again.

Unvote: nhammen

Vote: Sevis

(L-12)

Bonus!
I will shamelessly jump onto the largest wagon formed on anyone (except maybe Unsight) on the Chronopie wagon (mostly because those are the people I don't trust individually, not so much because they're on the wagon).

[Vi]

So Leafsnail is totally posting elsewhere onsite, thus making me glad he's in the umbrella of people I would shamelessly jump on

[Vi]

he's in the umbrella of people I would shamelessly jump on

Steady on, I barely know ya .

And... sometimes I prefer to gather my thoughts before posting. Specifically, when it's 1:30 in the morning.

In other news, you're on the same scumteam as chronopie. Either that or you've suffered a stroke within the last 24 hours. I guess you're hoping your ranknames will allow you to get away with this ridiculous behaviour.

Now, if you think I'm scum for doing this, I'd like you to vote me now and give me your reasons for distrusting me. Y'know, vote someone who you think is scum rather than switching back and forth between an easy newb lynch and your backup vote.

"Gathering your thoughts" only involves responding when your name is called?

No comment on the awards beneath my name. I don't use them to claim that I'm right or that my word has more weight. As for having a stroke, that's just me being me.

I've already mentioned how bad it looks that after missing the nhammen wagon time-wise, you generically tut-tutted it while moving onto the obvious following wagon. You've said (since it became cool to dislike the hamwagon) that you had a newbTown read on nhammen. You don't bother mentioning why you think that or why the arguments are weak, just that the wagon is dumb.
Now really. On one side we have a number of fairly decent arguments for him being scum, and on the other side... your self-righteous word. Which one do you think I'm more likely to consider accurate? Never mind the discussion with SerialClergyman in broad daylight about the merits of the accusations. Never mind that I've left the wagon before and after that discussion because I got an honest-Town read from his posts.

Which nicely leads to the other point in this most recent post of yours. I call you out for posting elsewhere onsite - and you have been posting elsewhere, in multiple places over the course of the last several hours - and you tell me that you're gathering thoughts. But apparently your thoughts only seem to include attacking the person bringing to light that you've been hanging around the site all night. I don't think this is an honest attack at all, especially since your mention of me going back and forth between nhammen and Sevis has already been laid out plainly inthread whereas your initial complaint about the wagon was concerned with people who joined the wagon for no reason at all. Those thoughts you were preparing were not only narrow, they were shallow as well.

Incidentally, there are a couple of people who can readily vouch that vote-hopping is normal for me.

Since Sevis-scum doesn't seem very popular today I'll go ahead and give you what you asked for.
'Not sure if you as scum would go out of your way to stir up trouble like this, but I

did

say earlier that you were on the hatelist, so~

Unvote: Sevis

Vote: Leafsnail

(L-12)

---

Why is there an assumption that the major contributors are less scummy then those that don't? I'm curious to know what that has anything to do with being scummy besides just needing to post more?

The major contributors, the ones doing the heavy lifting and actual thought, are usually Town.
The ones who are secondary in this regard are more likely scum.
Lurkers, n00bs, VIs, renegades, rebels, and rogues are mixed.

[Vi]

If we have 30 days of this I'll /wrists.

Slow and easy wins the race sir. Slow. And. Easy.~

It's slow (by efficiency, not number of posts), but it's not easy.

Both of the attacks on foilist seem way out in left field. Oh look, one of them is from Sevis.

I'll grant that vezo's Lowell attack seems logical, and I was confused about the scum daytalk rule (which is not documented anywhere in the rules) as well. With that said one of the major reasons I joined this game had to do with confidence that MSableheart is a competent moderator, and I don't think going along with claims of mod-favoritism is going to be a good idea ITG.

[Vi]

Actually even if ModSableheart wanted to favor scum by giving them three days to scumtalk - and even if it was because he saw in the QuickTopics that the scum weren't talking to each other, either because they were busy or just not chatty - I don't think that in itself would force Lowell in particular to be scum. It would suggest that many but not necessarily all of the scum are relatively low contributors, though. (surprise)

You could ask Lowell why he didn't confirm via PM immediately though.

[Vi]

I've already mentioned how bad it looks that after missing the nhammen wagon time-wise, you generically tut-tutted it while moving onto the obvious following wagon. You've said (since it became cool to dislike the hamwagon) that you had a newbTown read on nhammen. You don't bother mentioning why you think that or why the arguments are weak, just that the wagon is dumb.

If I'm honest... looking back, I'm having trouble seeing any serious points against nhammen.

Almost all of the points against him stem from Parama's case

, which is entirely based on a chronopie/ nhammen scumteam, and considering how quick chronopie was on the wagon, I just don't see it. It's also odd how many of the people don't seem to have even bothered looking at the original Parama case (ie not looking at the one accused of being a scumpartner Chronopie).

I've only lightly skimmed everything Parama has said since he started tunneling on SSBF. I've been reading SerialClergyman's posts.

Now really. On one side we have a number of fairly decent arguments for him being scum, and on the other side... your self-righteous word. Which one do you think I'm more likely to consider accurate?

I don't think you're scum for voting nhammen - he's acting stupid. It's more the way you've repeatedly changed between distancing yourself from the wagon and pushing it. I mean... you first go on to nhammen for fluff posting, then you jump to sevis for jumping onto the nhammen wagon in a bad way

(as if he were to only one)

, then go back to nhammen

for voting someone who isn't likely to have a wagon formed against them

(given your previous vote, this actually looks quite funny), then you go BACK to sevis

because apparently you've got "cold feet"

...

in addition to claiming chronopie town for NO reason and saying you'll attack anyone who voted chronopie

.

I don't have a problem with votehopping in general, but doing it again and again and again with little to no reason isn't acceptable.

*posts Cobalt's avatar here*

First bolded: I have but one vote.
Second bolded: Kind of a flimsy caricature of my reason but it's not like you're reading.
Third bolded: I concede I didn't say why at the time. I did more recently; I impulsively decided the n00bTown read I'm (still) getting from his posts overrides what SerialClergyman was saying.
Fourth bolded: Intuition is a reason, albeit not a convincing one for others. I DO know that I said I was using Chronopie's wagon as a catch-all basin for the people I found scummy because they all happened to be there, rather than because they were on Chronopie.

Never mind that I've left the wagon before and after that discussion because I got an honest-Town read from his posts.

Hence "switching back and forth between an easy newb lynch and your backup vote". It's the fact that you join AND LEAVE the wagon for no reason.

"No reason" is stretching the truth a bit, as mentioned before.

All in all... it feels far more like you're lining up mislynches than trying to find scum. You're calling a lot of people probably scum, and then leaving them alone, without any real pressure, as if to return to them later so you can strike them down more easily.

Well, consider.
*I only have one vote. It's hard to put "real pressure" on five people simultaneously. However, I

have

made attacks on the suspicious players' posts as they've made them, so there's no ambiguity.
*It's Day 1 in a 24-player game; 13 people have to agree to lynch (more specifically, 12 people have to agree with me).
*Not everyone agrees with me, and given the scumhunting techniques going on ITT not everyone is GOING to agree with me. Given that it IS Day 1 and not everyone I believe is scum will turn out to be scum, this is not necessarily a bad thing. (see: Mafia Dodgeball)
*History shows that more often than not a VI (of any alignment) gets lynched D1 in Large Games because it's the kind of player people can agree to lynch. (see: New Age Mafia, Mafia 87, Caught in the Crossfire) And that's fine; it's D1. However, I can press on the wagons that I believe are more likely to hit scum.
*All of the people I think are scum have zero votes on them, so any one of them I pick is the largest bandwagon to push. Similarly, I don't agree with the foilist accusations and I'm presently in wait-and-see mode for Chronopie, so I'm not on those wagons.

Does everything make sense here?

Since Sevis-scum doesn't seem very popular today I'll go ahead and give you what you asked for.
'Not sure if you as scum would go out of your way to stir up trouble like this, but I

did

say earlier that you were on the hatelist, so~

Unvote: Sevis

Vote: Leafsnail

(L-12)

Heh, another noncommital reason to unvote, another noncommital vote. In spite of all the "probscum" and "obvscum" you've mentioned throught the thread, you vote someone you're not sure of. Brilliant.

That said, I'm not sure if it's worth lynching you... the enemy scumgroup will probably take you out fairly quickly.

You DID ask.~ And I'm being quite transparent about how I feel about your motives.
Meanwhile, is this a noncommittal nonvote from your direction?

Why would I be taken out at night fairly quickly?

[Vi]

@Timeater: You are seriously not helping. I'm tempted to vote you just because of that worthless post.

do it do it do it

I know Leafsnail said I'm spreading the pressure around without voting, but there's a difference between what I'm doing and

I find you genuiously suspicious enough to warrant a vote, but I didn't say "VOTE FOR Dr. Robotnik! PEOPLE!".

@Timeater: You are seriously not helping. I'm tempted to vote you just because of that worthless post.

which makes it look like your vote means squaddoo. The way you're using it isn't effective as a pressuring tool.

Sevis continues to make weak posts why are people letting him slip by etc. etc.

I would actually like for Unsight to comment on Chronopie.

[Vi]

*spies a pie*
Actually, I would like for Chronopie to comment at all.

[Vi]

I'm unsure on which bit you'd like me to comment on Vi.

Just about anything relevant to the game tbqh.

TBH, maybe having ~10 ongoing games is a bit much, divided resources and what not.

I'm surprised you're only finding this out after joining ten games at a time. >_>

Why foilist and not <insert other person here>?

Getting to Leafsnail, etc. momentarily.

[Vi]

First bolded: I have but one vote.

But he doesn't even seem like the worst... and why go back to him twice?

It's not like he got any better since the first time...
If someone wants to vote Timeater or The Goat or Dry-fit or etc. I would certainly provide them with company.

Second bolded: Kind of a flimsy caricature of my reason but it's not like you're reading.

About what nhammen has said since SerialClergyman posted - He's still not going anywhere. Of all the people he could have voted for more information, he chose pman, who is least likely to gain a wagon (or directly give information).

Lots of attempts at reads, none of which are particularly committal. It's scumhunting at its most ineffective.

This is the only reason I can find for your second voting of nhammen. I assumed any previous reasons were invalid as you declared him town in your previous unvoting of him.

"Valid" and "invalid" are words that get thrown around a lot but nobody knows what they mean. >.>
Anyway, the vote on pman makes sense as a scumaneuver when combined with the bolded - it read like a flimsy attempt to look like he was scumhunting and culminated with a very uncontroversial and useless vote on a megalurker who earned an avatar for being vig bait. Really?

Fourth bolded: Intuition is a reason, albeit not a convincing one for others. I DO know that I said I was using Chronopie's wagon as a catch-all basin for the people I found scummy because they all happened to be there, rather than because they were on Chronopie.

You did SAY it, but it seems like a bizarre coincidence that almost everyone you find scummy is on one player you've just declared town :/.

I don't

try

to play bizarrely, but that's usually how it comes out. I look forward to my next game with DrippingGoofball.~
I realize that I chose an awkward way of grouping my suspects, but it was something neat that I noticed before I posted so I went with it.

*I only have one vote. It's hard to put "real pressure" on five people simultaneously. However, I have made attacks on the suspicious players' posts as they've made them, so there's no ambiguity.
*It's Day 1 in a 24-player game; 13 people have to agree to lynch (more specifically, 12 people have to agree with me).
*Not everyone agrees with me, and given the scumhunting techniques going on ITT not everyone is GOING to agree with me. Given that it IS Day 1 and not everyone I believe is scum will turn out to be scum, this is not necessarily a bad thing. (see: Mafia Dodgeball)
*History shows that more often than not a VI (of any alignment) gets lynched D1 in Large Games because it's the kind of player people can agree to lynch. (see: New Age Mafia, Mafia 87, Caught in the Crossfire) And that's fine; it's D1. However, I can press on the wagons that I believe are more likely to hit scum.
*All of the people I think are scum have zero votes on them, so any one of them I pick is the largest bandwagon to push. Similarly, I don't agree with the foilist accusations and I'm presently in wait-and-see mode for Chronopie, so I'm not on those wagons.

Hmm... pretty fair response, actually. Even if your scumlist seems to be moving far too fast for anyone to keep up with :/. Also, are you going to be trying to start a wagon on one of your scumspects at some point?

You mean like voting them twice and making mention that they really should die sometime soon every time they post, along with reasons why?


I think this conversation has been enlightening.

Unvote: Leafsnail

Vote: Timeater

(L-12)
Because SSBF won't do it do it do it, and this wagon really needs to happen, and nobody wants to vote Sevis for some reason.

--

I think the foilist case is overblown even after the Chronopie vote; the last part of 621 says it better than I can.
Plus that kind of haughty attitude in 627 doesn't seem like it came from relativelynewscum, and a quick meta read looks like it supports that feeling.

I do have to ask where Parama and nhammen stand with him though.

@foilist:

So is Parama a bad player, or is Parama scum? What was your final opinion on nhammen?

Also, while rereading I twitched again when I came to Sevis 605. Lame question + convenient target = contrived suspicion.

[Vi]

(This site... I hope this isn't a doublepost)

--

Finally someone who bothers to comment on my points, instead of simply calling me obvscum.

...

My comment on Midnight means that I clearly had the feeling there was something important (important, not necessarily scummy) about him, but that I couldn't figure out what it was again.

That's... less than helpful, given what "important" could be expected to mean.

I find that only targeting newer/VI players is a scumtell, yes.

He voted SSBF without stating any reason at all. His next vote, on daniel, had somewhat better reasoning, but he's kept it up for a rather long time without adding anything.

I don't think him missing the nhammen wagon was accidental: nhammen is a far more experienced player, not someone Dr. Robotnik would want to go up against.

First bolded: Oh, like you've been doing, right? (Sevis' vote record: daniel, SGRaaize, nhammen, Dr. Robotnik)
Second bolded: This would be the first time I've seen this argument in the context of ten other people voting nhammen, a handful of whom had worse/fewer reasons for voting than he would have. There's probably a good reason for that.

LMP, could you please name someone more suspicious, alphabetically up to nhammen? Chronopie is close due to rolefishing, lack of content in the early game, and his jump on the nhammen wagon.

Did you just tell LMP to unvote you and vote Chronopie?

Also, the fluff is that you're wasting your time complaining about people who are more likely than you to be Town.~

Unvote: Timeater

Vote: Sevis

(L-11)

Also, OMGCAKE

[Vi]

Yes, my attacks are entirely hypocritical, and the only reason I'm not targeting myself is because I know my own alignment. Would you suggest I target nobody at all?

As long as you agree that what I've been saying is entirely legitimate and your defense is a ridiculous rhetorical question, I'll be fine with my vote~

Haven't you been able to read the thread and find people who have been scummy who also haven't been the people that everyone else has been looking at?~

@Vi: You bring up legitimate points, but you move your vote around so much it's hard for me to take it seriously. Do you actually want everyone you've voted for lynched?

vezo - yes at the time; not now
LynchMePlz - yes at the time; not now
SGRaaize - yes at the time; probably now
Dr. Robotnik - maybe at the time; now not sure
nhammen - yes at the time; probably not now
Sevis - yes at the time; yes now
nhammen - sure at the time; probably not now although I'd hate to see him drop off the radar entirely
Sevis - yes at the time; yes now
Leafsnail - undecided at the time; not particularly now
Timeater - yes at the time; yes now
more Sevis - more yes etc.

[Vi]

Vi, your argument on my lynching is "lack of decent content", I'm not sure if I follow
Also, you said before that I was against SSBF but didn't lynch him, once again, I just found him tense, I didn't suspect him

What are your thoughts on what's going on? (aside from me mentioning your name)

[Vi]

Checking in; somewhat tired.

My reads aren't changing a whole lot. I'm still not overfond of lynching Chronopie. Consequently, I think Leafsnail is targeting all the wrong people tbqh. askbob is still a . SGRaaize is still bordering on policy lynch range on account of "too incoherent to live". Lowell is still himself. Dry-fit is still way under everyone's radar for no evident reason. I have no idea who this "Pomegranate" character is. >.>

Probably the only

news

per se is--
*I would like for Parama to tone down and/or cease posting. We get the idea.
*Unsight's last two posts seem like filler. I'm particularly not thrilled with trying to get a read on this slot, but he seems more in the background than the last time I considered lynching him D1. (Or maybe that's me being tired, etc.)

I'm not as completely fed up with the game as SerialClergyman claims, and I think to a degree this back-and-forth is a good thing. I would, however, like for the people who are posting to mix up a bit, i.e. the people who have previously posted a ton to back off and let the bobs and the Dry-fits and the Robotniks and the Goats and the Unsights and the Eaters of Tim and the Pom-Poms and the etc. out to play.

Also, The Eaters of Tim would be a good name for a rock band. [/davebarry]

Cut by replacement: Faraday manages to stun me like none have in recent memory. In spite of being the one saying it, I'm not sure if that's a compliment.

@Faraday

- How much of the game have you read?

[Vi]

@Vi: Okay, so you're basically saying you want the more active people like me, you, Parama, and others to back off and force them to take center stage? No thanks, I'd rather be active then lurk in the game, look what happen to daniel due to his lurking.

Now granted, I would love to see more out of all of them in this game, but don't force the active people into inactivity and the inactive people into super-activeness. Prods or replacements can fix that.

I'm not "forcing" anything, considering that's impossible for me to do
But I'm seeing a lot of you/Parama/Leafsnail/whoever pushing cases I honestly think are wrongsighted and much back-and-forth catfighting about it while the people I mentioned previously scoot by. It is helping me gain a read on YOU, but I already have a read on you and don't particularly need another one.
Besides, while I like being active as much or more than the next person, there's something to be gained in not trying to control the game every now and then.

And of course if you lurk to the point of getting replaced, you're doing it wrong.

[Vi]

Read up to this point, doubts about Faraday have recessed; nothing else to say that you haven't heard already.

[Vi]

What's incoherent about me?
Thank you in advance for your answer

"Incoherent" was probably a bad word. What I'm more trying to say is that it seems like your life purpose is to give as little information as possible.

Complying with Vi's request to STFU a bit.

While I'm grateful one person listened, I don't think I was referring to you per se

To be honest, I really don't think Sevis is deserving of a bandwagon. A bandwagon on Sevis would give us very little information to work on and it wouldn't give us much more if he were to get lynched, unless he flipped scum.

He wouldn't get lynched if he weren't considered suspect by over half the other players...

I prefer a Raiize wagon to chronopie but it doesn't look like anyone else thinks the same.

Maybe, maybe not. If he's scum, he's scum that doesn't like to vote or really influence anything.
It's a moot point besides. If the Chronopie lynch gets rid of a giant obstacle for everyone else (more so the Townies than the scum), there's little sense in complaining tbh.

[Vi]

If the Chronopie lynch gets rid of a giant obstacle for everyone else (more so the Townies than the scum), there's little sense in complaining tbh.

If this is your opinion, why don't/haven't you vote(d) me?

Anyway, as a 'nilla, I have no problem with dying, as long as the town has a net gain in information.

look to those who pushed for little/no reason.

This post is a trap, isn't it

I prefer voting people I expect to flip scum. Something about not being a sheep and being Captain Of My Soul and suchlike.

[Vi]

<words>

Based on this.

Unvote, vote: Pom
FoS: SC, LMP, Parama, and Nhammen

That's incredibly poor. If Chronopie flips scum I'd vote Dry-fit immediately.

Also big slip. You said unsight accused you of being ww not mafioso. If you flip scum I know who to lynch tomorrow.

...but Unsight DID accuse Chronopie of being a werewolf... Am I missing something?

[Vi]

Well I'm glad this game was laid to rest. Had I known while I was alive that Parama was not a relative newbie but actually a

highly competent scum player

I would have placed him dead to rights right about when he posted I WILL NOT BE SILENCED (i.e. direct willingness to be anti-Town and wrong). I thought that SerialClergyman was phoning in his performance but made the decision to go with him anyway for the sake of convenience and an unwillingness to keep fighting a sea of people I didn't think I was going to be able to convince. All the rest of my reads were basically wrong. I really want to know what's going on with Dry-fit, because I think this is like the second time I've seen him as scummy scum.

SSBF as Town leader D1 kind of didn't work, but I liked the enthusiasm and he was pretty clearly Town so I let it go. I'm curious to see his thoughts.

vezo seemed to really like being confirmed Town, and nobody else except the scum did. The problem with confirmed Townies, either by setup design or by role revelation, is that they stop becoming pressured to contribute positively to the game. The reason he was kept to endgame was because he was no threat whatsoever.

Midnight's Sorrow was obvTown since at least Day 2.

No comment seems necessary about Lowell.

I'm pleasantly surprised that the game lasted as long as it did or got to a one-team LyLo, given how the first two Days went. gj Town.

I can understand that Michel had a hard time with replacements in this game, in part because he drafted fail players and in part because I know there aren't many good replacements available for L. Normals. However, the activity policy brought a lot of it on himself. Battle Mage, for instance, is

notorious

for posting 8 times in a row and then disappearing for three days. That's not a stall tactic; that's how he plays, that's how he's always played. I'm also very concerned about the V/LA policy allowing people to essentially skip around the activity requirements altogether. It's not fair for someone to be replaced after three days of inactivity but give others a free pass every weekend. Excused or not, absence is absence - and after seeing V/LA abused in games of my own I'm inclined to ignore V/LA for activity requirements anyway. I understand that you wanted a relatively swift game with 48/24, but in your position when I saw that that wasn't going to happen and I had a revolving door going on I would have pushed it to 72/24.

However, I can certainly respect your (Michel's) consistency in modding. Everything was extremely precise, and I don't remember seeing any deviation in your posts or actions.

[Vi]

>.> This was my last game before I took a month off, and I probably should have taken the vacation sooner if this game was any indication.
I'm hyper to start playing again but I'm so sidetracked by other things right now that I haven't found the perfect game to join yet.

[Vi]

I always read those hyperaggressive players like Parama as town.

My town play looks almost exactly like my scum play, though many people don't seem to notice this
I am the anti-thesis to meta.

Even if your Town play looks almost exactly like your scum play, you are not the antithesis to meta.
I'm looking forward to the next game I play with you.