NY 114: Mafia vs. Werewolves (Game Over)

[Dry-fit]

/confident

[Dry-fit]

*How many games have you finished, here or elsewhere? (I don't particularly need to know details here)
*Do you consider yourself an experienced player?
*Are we there yet?
*How about now?

1. I've completed 12 games. All here.
2. Marginally.
3. No.
4. No.

Absolutely not. I have reasons for suspecting you. As a matter of fact, you're my top lynch candidate. I do find you slightly suspicious, but not enough to place a vote on.

Why would you place a random vote when you had a better than random reason for an actual vote?

SSBF I have to agree with everyone else. The things you are saying seem really scummy to me.

If you quick hammer me, you run a higher risk of killing a townie.

A higher risk? o.O And who said anything about a quick hammer?

Due to all this pre-game talk, are we even gonna have an RVS?

Sorry, haven't been following this... didn't think we'd start pregame .

Anyway -

Super Smash Bros. Fan's list is null... I don't really agree with it, but I don't see what makes it so scummy. It seems more like something easy to bandwagon onto. With that in mind,

FomS: Parama and Chronopie

. Parama seems far more eager to lynch over that alone, but chronopie seems to be following him, which is odd.

I agree with your SSBF points, although I do think he is acting a bit scummy. I think those who have seized on it to the point that they are pre-game voting is a bit suspicious.

So here LMP says SSBF goes from “really scummy” to “a bit scummy” in a few hours without SSBF making a post between his posts. And the players who found him scummy that he “agreed with” at first are now scummy themselves. Also why are you concerned about whether there’s an RVS or not?

Vote: LynchMePls.

[Dry-fit]

@Vi It's cause I'm pretty much a complete noob at forum mafia. I'm still learning, as my post answering your questions stated. I'm perfectly willing to admit I'm a noob. I am most definitely not scum though.

LMP clings to the newbie card for dear life!

Does anyone find it weird that Vi tends to jump around vote a lot, especially when we're deep into a serious game that won't end until July 4th, 2010?

Actually, yes.

[Dry-fit]

I'm kind of leery of the way the Dr. Robotnik wagon formed. A lot of players just saying "I like this wagon" without adding anything else.

That said I don't like Robotnik's response in 319. It's overly theatrical.

I don't see why LynchMePls is town.

[Dry-fit]

@Dry-fit

, who on the wagon is suspicious?

The players who jumped on giving

no

reasoning. That would be askbob, Midnight's Sorrow, Lowell, and of course LynchMePls <3.

@Dry-fit 365: Sit on that fence some more please.

What fence? I think that both Robotnik and some of his wagoners are suspicious, and am currently voting one of the wagoners (LynchMePls).

Hidden rolefishing is scummier than blatant rolefishing. f they are Town, they have NOTHING TO HIDE.

Not buying this at all. How is it "hidden" if he's going so in depth into it? What about it is hiding?

I like parama's case on nhammen a lot. I also think its odd how chrono joined the wagon without talking about how Parama's case implicates him, but I'm not sure how I'd expect him to react to that.

unvote. vote: nhammen

[Dry-fit]

@Dry-fit 365: Sit on that fence some more please.

What fence? I think that both Robotnik and some of his wagoners are suspicious, and am currently voting one of the wagoners (LynchMePls)

That's a bit of a misrepresentation. You were voting me before my Dr. Robotnik vote, so you can't say you voted me because I was on that wagon.

That's now what I was implying. By accusing me of being on the fence he was saying I was accusing a lot of people without taking a firm stance on any of them. I assume he said this because I didn't place a vote in that post. The reason for that is that I was previously voting for one of them (you) and this just added to my case. However, with your claim and recent posts I think it's likely you're town.

@Vi: I don't think Lowell or Midnight are obvtown at all.

I'm just wondering why some of you think he could be a Scum Roleblocker. Those are (To my knowledge) in newb games here mostly. Besides that, he hasn't really acted all that scummy in my eyes.

Actually the most common scum power roles around here are godfather and roleblocker.

[Dry-fit]

But there have been two separate instances where M-Sorrow has been called obvTown (by Lowell and SerialClergyman) and I agree with them. Why do you disagree with these reads?

The first instance I don't get at all. He claims to have no idea what the cases are about, and is honest about it. Why can't scum be confused by that, or be honest about that confusion? The second instance, well I just don't think it's so conclusive.

Midnight's posts have mostly been fluff, and I thought that comment about the one to hammer being lynched next was odd.

Also:

I'm not eager to set up one

This is a HUGE ping on my scumdar. This just seems strange coming from town.

I'm fine with my vote where it is for now.

[Dry-fit]

No, I was saying you were fence-sitting about the robotnik case. On the one hand, the wagon is scummy (case is bad) on the other he is scummy (case is good).

Oh. Well, actually, the case on Robotnik really wan't anything. The first two players on the wagon didn't really make a case at all. And yet several players jumped on stating they thought the wagon was good. That's what was suspicious. The reason I thought Robotnik was scummy was because of his response. Not the (nonexistent) case.

Right now I think Chrono is more likely than nhammen to be scum. He seems way to eager for an nhammen lynch

A roleblocker is not a useful town role. Due to being uninformed, there is a much higher potential of missing a Block, or even Hitting something useful (Such as a cop).

Firstly this is just wrong. A town roleblocker can potentially have the power of a cop and doc combined. See viewtopic.php?t=13353&postdays=0&postorder=asc&&start=0 for an example.
Second, Chronopie really seems to want nhammen lynched. I think it could be because he wants a powerrole dead.

Unvote. Vote: Chronopie

[Dry-fit]

Dr. Robotnik's hopping has been noted before. He seems to be mostly targeting VIs. His list of suspects, other than SSBF and daniel, includes LMP -- who, although he certainly isn't a VI, is new. Doesn't look all too good.

I don't like this attack. What's scummy about this? Robotnik's only voted for two people.

Because Foilist looks fairly scummy on a quick-ish reread. Dislike Sevis too. (For all that I sound like a parrot).

Care to elaborate?

We can lynch Lowell to verify whether or not He's scum, doesn't mean anything about Vez, the closest thing to confirmed...

We can also lynch any other player to verify whether or not they're scum.

[Dry-fit]

@Chronopie: So Lowell is your top suspect?

Anyways, while rereading I noticed something:

Hidden rolefishing is scummier than blatant rolefishing. f they are Town, they have NOTHING TO HIDE.

Not buying this at all. How is it "hidden" if he's going so in depth into it? What about it is hiding?

I like parama's case on nhammen a lot. I also think its odd how chrono joined the wagon without talking about how Parama's case implicates him, but I'm not sure how I'd expect him to react to that.

unvote. vote: nhammen

You saw foilists rolefishing. And yet Parama's entire case was that foilist was not rolefishing, so my accusations were baseless. This was later proven flase. But the point here is that you

saw foilist's fishing

and at the same time

agreed with Parama's case

. Explain please.

The main point of Parama's case I agreed with was how you treated the rolefishing differently.

A bandwagon on Sevis makes me groan because I despite a neutral-scummy read, I really don't want him to get lynched ToDay (Save him for later). More on this later with a seperate post dedicated to this.

Would like to hear more about this.

[Dry-fit]

We must find out who the mafia targeted. I think the werewolfs killed Vi because they thought it was from an opposing faction.

Why is it so crucial to find out who the mafia targeted?

I like this pressure on MS. waiting for nhammen before voting though.

[Dry-fit]

Wow that Midnight wagon built up fast.

I don't feel comfortable going with an SGRaaize lynch quite yet. To be honest I've got a slight town read on him right now. As mentioned there could have been a doc save, or if nhammen is mafia mafia may have no killed to frame SGRaaize.

[Dry-fit]

ffs guys. SGRaaize is at L-2(if animorpherv's vote counted). I suggest some of you unvote. This wagon is super scummy.

IMO, if nhammen is lying, he's guaranteed dead tomorrow.
Unvote:Timeater

How so?

Pretty clear to me--Vote:SGRaizze

What's clear to you?

vote: Dr. Robotnik

. Also up for an nhammen or MS lynch.

[Dry-fit]

ffs guys. SGRaaize is at L-2(if animorpherv's vote counted). I suggest some of you unvote. This wagon is super scummy.

IMO, if nhammen is lying, he's guaranteed dead tomorrow.
Unvote:Timeater

How so?

Pretty clear to me--Vote:SGRaizze

What's clear to you?

vote: Dr. Robotnik

. Also up for an nhammen or MS lynch.

Why are you "up for an nhammen or MS lynch?"

What makes Dr. Robotnik your lynch of choice?

I think they're scum?

Robotnik has my vote right now because he has been consistently scummy and contributed little to the game. I really don't like his SGRaaize vote earlier in the day or his jump off the wagon. However, his post where he says he didn't realize both nhammen and SGR could be innocent seems genuine.

unvote

I think roleblocker is a fairly unlikely role for town to have. I also don't like the way nhammen gave his report and instantly voted SGR.

vote: nhammen

[Dry-fit]

My top three are:

nammen
Midnight's Sorrow
Dr. Robotnik

[Dry-fit]

We are not voting Nhammen Roleblockers are

not

always Scum.

Where would you put the odds of a town roleblocker in this game?

[Dry-fit]

Oh goodie wagons on all my top suspects!

I really like the entrances of all the replacements so far.

With two scum teams?? Pretty high sir.

...Okay.

[Dry-fit]

ALSO.
Guys, we are lynching out of
{Midnight's Sorrow, Shrinehime, Timeeater, Nhammen} today. Stop playing Lynch all Lurkers and DO SOMETHING FFS.

Why should we be limited to lynching them? In my experience claiming that a certain group of players are the only lynch choices is a scum tactic.

I do agree with you about pomegranate though. I don't remember one protown post coming from her.

[Dry-fit]

@Timeater, Unsight, Spyrex, Leafsnail, SerialClergyman, Dry-fit, Dr. Robotnik, Faraday, Lowell:

What use are your votes serving right now? Do you believe that you are pushing your suspects as much as you should be? Do you believe that your wagon has a high chance of going through today? Do you think that having as many competing bandwagons we have right now is good for town?

Well I did think there was a high chance of a lynch going through. I don't think competing bandwagons are necessarily a good or bad thing for town.

I don't know why this Robotnik wagon fizzled. I don't think his claim makes him all that much more likely to be town.

[Dry-fit]

Ok, well, since Midnight's Sorrow must be modconfirmed as town to everyone else in the game,

Robotnik too.

[Dry-fit]

Vote: Pomegranate.

Seriously.

I don't think the night actions prove anything conclusive about Socrates, but his responses have not been town.

I don't see the case on Unsight at all.

<Insert pleasant surprise at Sevis/Shrine flip

Pleasant?

[Dry-fit]

Am I crazy to think Pom is scum?

I don't know if BM is trying to confuse the town with that post or what.

[Dry-fit]

I do agree that Dry-Fit is acting useless and scummy though.

Here's a little experiment: Raise your hand if you think Pom is town.

[Dry-fit]

Here's a little experiment: Raise your hand if you think Pom is town.

The only way you can even hope to gain any accurate result out of that experiment is if Pomegranate were to flip scum. If she were to flip town, then you would have wasted your time on your little "experiment".

My experiment was to see if anyone actually has a town read on her. I don't really see how anyone could. And yet no one seems willing to lynch her (although that seems to be changing.)

Now Dry-Fit, who has done more today, me or you? Also, what do you think of Socrates and the Socwagon? (Don't be wishy-washy about this and take a stance for once.)

I was laughing because you agree I'm acting useless and scummy, while you are as well. I don't feel Socrates' responses to the accusations made against him have been town. I don't like the way the Socrates wagon formed but it's to be expected given how the night actions went.

Dry-Fit, how many scumbags do you think there are? How many people are you suspicious of? I'll do the math for you: 6-1=5. Something is wrong with that last number, DF. Fix it.

I don't know what you're asking. Are you saying I should know at this moment who all of the scum are? And you're assuming I think there are 6 scum?

I am suspicious of you. I am suspicious of BM. I am suspicious of Robotnik. I am suspicious of Midnight's Sorrow. And I am suspicious of Socrates. I guess that's only five of the six you'd like but those are the one's I think are most likely scum above the rest.

[Dry-fit]

2) Pomegranate, Unsight, and foilist13 (me) are a scum team. This viewpoint is held by 3-4 players, including the victims of theory 1.

Please note that while I am voting Pom, I do not agree with this theory.

[Dry-fit]

And Pom scrapes through another day.

[Dry-fit]

vote: Pomegranate

[Dry-fit]

@Richard: Why did you claim?

I'm still not convinced by this Unsight wagon.

[Dry-fit]

I think that's L-1.

Time for a claim I guess <.<

[Dry-fit]

Poll: Who would you say has done more this game- Pom, Lowell, or Dry-Fit?

•Pom
•Lowell
•Dry-Fit

I'm not concerned with what you've done for the game. I'm concerned about what you've done for the town, which is nada.

Glad this wagon is finally happening. I don't want to put her at L-2 until everyone's checked in though.

[Dry-fit]

Claim.

[Dry-fit]

^Yay!

Says the most inherently anti-town player currently active on the site.

Be careful you might hurt Lowell's feelings.

[Dry-fit]

I never did understand the foilist-unsight-pom team theory. Hilarious that they're all on different factions

[Dry-fit]

you should probably claim Lowell.

[Dry-fit]

vote: AGar

That player slot's been trouble all throughout the game. I reeeeeeeeeally don't like richard's vote.

I also have a nagging feeling tubby is scum.

[Dry-fit]

unvote

I just realized something. I'm absolutely positive at least one of richard and Lowell is scum.

vote: RichardGHP

Dry-Fit, why don't you just go ahead and say you're suspicious of everyone in the game.

Do you believe there are less than 3 scum left in this game?

Oh, also, can you point out why my playerslot's been trouble all game, Dry-Fit?

Timeater was unhelful and antitown. Battle Mage was unhelpful and antitown.

I forgot he was in the game again. If he's not scum, I fail at mafia forever.

Well I'm not scum, so yeah.

[Dry-fit]

Jesus. I guess I should claim then.

I am the archangel. I can block the mafia nightkill.

The reason I believe one of Lowell and richard is scum is because I assume there is a sorcerer who can block the werewolf kills as well as investigative roles for each faction. Adding in vezo as amason monk that makes five town roles. Therefore if we assume four scum there can't be more than one vanilla townie left.

[Dry-fit]

Oh wow. I think I know what AGar is saying. But tubby could still be town.

I protected Serial night one. Does that change your theory, AGar?

[Dry-fit]

Actually looking back I protected Serial nights one and two.

Why haven't you claimed your targets yet, Dry-fit?

I guess it doesn't matter now but I have been planning on protecting vezo every night from now on and didn't want the mafia to know that.

Night three I didn't send in an action on time. Night four I was on SSBF. Last two nights I was on vezo.

[Dry-fit]

Wow, looks like the mafia didn't submit a kill. Dry-fit would have died otherwise (assuming he can't self-protect). - wait derp, the kill flavor last night says AGar couldn't self-protect so Dry-fit almost certainly can't. So yeah.
So the last mafia is someone inactive. Assuming 3-man scumteams, of course. Which seems most likely at this point.

I think the mafia may be intentionally no killing. There were no mafia kills on nights one, four, or five either. Night one I didn't block the mafia kill, and neither did nhammen. I don't know how likely it is I successfully saved nights four and five either. I don't know what the advantage of no killing me last night would have been though...

I protected vezo last night.

[Dry-fit]

This is lylo guys

Anyways Ythan is scum.

[Dry-fit]

I really want to know what's going on with Dry-fit, because I think this is like the second time I've seen him as scummy scum.

What was the other time? I'm pretty sure you had a town read on me the last time we played. In this game I basically considered myself unlynchable because of my role, which turned out to be the case. I didn't feel a great need to appear portown, and got lazy. Not a good excuse but that's what happened.

I don't know if it was modkillable or not but it kind of bothered me for the rest of the game when Midnight in response to the Unsight role pm thing said

Wow. I never even noticed that D:

It brought him from being one of my top suspects to being almost mod-confirmed town in my mind.

The werewolves played very well. I always read those hyperaggressive players like Parama as town. And when Nik volunteered to massclaim I thought he was town for sure.