NY 120: Flash mafia 2. GAME OVER

[Porochaz]

/confirm

[Porochaz]

Hi.

vote mbf

[Porochaz]

Interesting, your getting scum reads from me voting randomly in a Random Voting Stage?

[Porochaz]

RVS speculation that I can't justify but am willing to throw around anyways because I feel the need to.
Poro is intentionally avoiding the growing Rich wagon
Timing of vollkan's vote + need to justify it with some other reason other than "LOL WAGON"

just both come off as scummy

unvote, vote: Parama

Parama gives reasons here, but in the first and last lines he's trying to distance himself from them. It's like he doesn't want to be found scummy for a weak case.

@Parama: Rather than Hmmming, how about responding to the point he makes against you?

Sure.
The logic is incredibly weak but it's still strong enough for me to not want to random vote.
Problem is that Poro's most recent post is worse than his RVS post. He should be voting me IMO.

See I dont understand this, why would you want me to be voting you?

Im not voting you because it could have been a random vote, (which is what I was trying to establish) or you were just being incredibly stupid or you were doing it to test reactions. The reason "Im voting you because you didn't join this RVS wagon" is one of the worst reasons Ive heard for voting someone in a game.

I don't want to vote you because out of all 3 reasons, not 1 is indicative of scummy behaviour.

Then again, weak logic in RVS has caught scum for me before...

See from this post I'm going to believe its the first reason. I'm glad you can give us just the one instance where this strategy has worked before.

^ Happier with my vote.

@Parama, what's the problem with not joining the big wagon?

I should point out that I'm not unhappy about joining any wagon, I just chose not to.

Nobody in this game is worth Policy Lynching and the one person I would want to vote for a reason has already voted for me.

Who and why?
You're being squeamish about being perceived omgussing, but very openly so.

vollkan, why ask Richard about using random.org when you later imply that you don't subscibe to arbitrary RVS voting>random RVS voting?

vote: Porochaz

Dislike of his question to Parama. His expectation of reasonability at this stage. Mildness.

I like your post, it kind of sums up why I didn't like the last two lines of 34. However I would ask you to expand more on your points for voting for me. So I could address them better. Thanks.

[Porochaz]

Firstly useless lists are useless. Better trying to get something vaguely useful from them. Useless lists are just a cover for posting fluff.

1, wrong. Noone expects a full blown case on page 4, but a justification of your votes helps us know that your not just splaffing and not being a dick with your vote. It shows that you actually, you know, have a reason for your vote.

2, If someone does something page 30, and you had a "base suspicion" on page 4. Im not going to give a rats ass. I do now though. The fact that you refuse to say anything even under pressure looks scummy.

3, is bullshit. Sometimes the small things count, and the small things can lead to bigger things. Granted Im arguing the opposite side of this argument with Parama but at least it creates discussion.

4, you know how to play this game, don't you? What disadvantage do town have knowing this information?

[Porochaz]

Damage been done. Really obvious if they start changing play based on case, only applicable if case is based on playstyle etc.

[Porochaz]

I am okay with you creating discussion off the basis of me. However Im still waiting for a case that's not "He didn't join an RVS wagon and he should have voted me". Cause that case is a pile of crap.

[Porochaz]

TOWN:

vollkan
Budja
Porochaz
Parama
Untrod Tripod

NEUTRAL:

Fishythefish
JDodge
Luchris
mikeburnfire

SCUM:

Espeonage
Ojanen
Oman

What about my play makes you think he is more likely town than scum?
What about budja's play makes you think he is more likely town than scum?
What about Prozac's play makes you think he is more likely town than scum?
What about Parama's play makes you think he is more likely town than scum?
What about UT's play makes you think he is more likely town than scum?

What about Espy's play makes you think he is more likely scum than town?
What about Ojanen's play makes you think he is more likely scum than town?
What about Oman's play makes you think he is more likely scum than town?

-----
If you can't answer any of the above: then how did you determine that they deserve the classification that you give them in the above list?

[Porochaz]

Prozac (Parroting vollkan -

word for word

)

Jesus Christ, Do you not think for a second I did that deliberately... you refused to answer him, I wanted you to know that I had wanted answers to those questions as well. I had hoped increasing pressure would have made you answer them.

[Porochaz]

Prozac (Parroting vollkan -

word for word

)

Jesus Christ, Do you not think for a second I did that deliberately... you refused to answer him, I wanted you to know that I had wanted answers to those questions as well. I had hoped increasing pressure would have made you answer them.

I know you did it deliberately. Doesn't change the fact that you did it.

It was to make a point that was more powerful than "yeah I agree with vollkan"

[Porochaz]

I know, thats why you got scummier in my eyes.

[Porochaz]

@Poro: Rich got scummier because you failed to make a point? That's what your most recent post implies, although I don't think that's what you meant.

I feel I made my point fine. The fact that he didn't really answer it fully is what made him scummier.

[Porochaz]

First part no, really no and second part, meh maybe slightly, however word for word, no. As I said, I wouldn't be likely to "parrot him word for word" unless I had a reason. You were being grossly unhelpful. So yes, you are wrong on both counts.

Also I haven't changed my vote yet.

vote Richard

For not supplying the reasoning and being generally stubborn about it. I want to know why vollkan unvoted, I see no reason to on the basis of his defence.

[Porochaz]

Apart from being within the 48 hours for a prod, the prodding rules seem way to strict. Will answer questions dedicated to me later.

[Porochaz]

I wish this thread had more to it.
I'm keeping my vote on Prozac due to riding on the coattails of vollkan in pressuring Esp+Rich.

Also I haven't changed my vote yet.

vote Richard

For not supplying the reasoning and being generally stubborn about it. I want to know why vollkan unvoted, I see no reason to on the basis of his defence.

I don't like the reasoning for this vote. Especially the "being generally stubborn about it" part.
I don't like how long it took Prozac to change his rvs vote. His reasoning is very pressure-vote-ish but the timing is anything but.

You are right, it took me way too long to change my vote. I am finding currently better to make sure of what Im thinking before I jump in. MBF wasnt under pressure, although probably should be, there was no point in me changing, if he has a problem with it, then he can bring it up with me. The reason I'm voting him is because what he is doing is a crap shoot. He's picking holes in Kevlar and trying to run with it. When it doesnt work with one person he moves onto someone else. Its not fooling anyone.

2, If someone does something page 30, and you had a "base suspicion" on page 4. Im not going to give a rats ass. I do now though.

The fact that you refuse to say anything even under pressure looks scummy.

I don't understand at all what's scummy about that. The stubborness makes more sense if he actually cares about revealing or not. Fabricating a weak case is hellishly easy.

Fabricating a weak case is hellishly easy (oh crap Im repeating things word for word again), fabricating one that people believe and go along with is however a lot harder. Why am I going to be interested on page 30, something he has been holding onto 26 pages. My first question would be, "Why did you not bring this up at the time?" or "Why did you allow town to head on a completely different track when you had what you thought was a golden nugget about that player?"

3, is bullshit. Sometimes the small things count, and the small things can lead to bigger things. Granted Im arguing the opposite side of this argument with Parama but at least it creates discussion.

Ugh in that case you are arguing for the sake of arguing. Which doesn't create useful discussion, it creates useless noise.

I said this wrongish. My point is (and Im aware Im doing this metaphor thing too much) if you are building a bridge in London over the Thames then you have to lay foundations down. Its the same here. If you are going to attack someone and actually attack them, then you actually have to lay the groundwork first or you will have a hell of a lot of groundwork later on. Keeping going with my metaphor, as far as I can see Parama started creating his bridge in Cairo and is still trying to get to the other side of the Thames.

[Porochaz]

Fucked up the quote tags there although its easy to know which words are mine.

[Porochaz]

Seriously, you are going to the third person thing? (badly I might add)

MBF needs to start being useful and I will answer OJ in due course. (Im only doing flyby posts for now, just got a new job)

[Porochaz]

Somebody sees what I'm seeing. <3 vollkan.

MBF needs to start being useful and I will answer OJ in due course. (Im only doing flyby posts for now, just got a new job)

This 2 days ago. In due course is

completely inadequate

if it allows you to coast until deadline without me being able to either push your scummy answer to get more support for the wagon or move on if your answer is somehow town after all.
Waiting it out does make sense as a scum move.

Also, deadline is int 3 days, right?
WHAT IS WRONG WITH MOST OF THIS GAME

@mod

: Is Jdodge being replaced?

One day, calm down. Im busy.

[Porochaz]

You are right, it took me way too long to change my vote. I am finding currently better to make sure of what Im thinking before I jump in.

Uncertainty gets an undue bad rap in this game. That said, simply saying that you weren't sure isn't good enough; something must have clicked to make the difference between the before and after of your vote - so what was it?

Simply that I wasnt voting him yet and I was tired of him speaking utter rubbish. He picked up on something that was bullshit, Im okay when people vote or try to pressure me for decent reasons, I like Ojanen, her reasons for voting me are ones that I can see why she would see them as scummy. He has dressed up his votes like he would a cheap whore, give them a nice classy dress but not do anything with the horrible makeup, the scruffy hair or those goddamn awful kankles.

The reason I'm voting him is because what he is doing is a crap shoot. He's picking holes in Kevlar and trying to run with it. When it doesnt work with one person he moves onto someone else. Its not fooling anyone.

What is scummy about attacking different people - unless the logic is consistent crap, but you don't seem to be attacking that here at all (and, if you are, you are, as you would put it, "holding onto it").

Prozac+1

What is he attacking them for though? He didnt attack me for anything and as far as I can tell he isnt voting Oman for anything.

Fabricating a weak case is hellishly easy (oh crap Im repeating things word for word again), fabricating one that people believe and go along with is however a lot harder. Why am I going to be interested on page 30, something he has been holding onto 26 pages. My first question would be, "Why did you not bring this up at the time?" or "Why did you allow town to head on a completely different track when you had what you thought was a golden nugget about that player?"

Easy shot at Espy's unconventional play which entirely ignores what he has said that he is doing.

Prozac+2

I saw what he said he was doing, its a load of bullshit. You know fine well that it is are you really going to care about a point in a case a good few weeks after it happened?

[Porochaz]

MBF wasnt under pressure, although probably should be, there was no point in me changing,

if MBF has a problem with it, then he can bring it up with me

. The reason I'm voting Richard is because what he is doing is a crap shoot. He's picking holes in Kevlar and trying to run with it. When it doesnt work with one person he moves onto someone else. Its not fooling anyone.

75% rhetorics. And I don't get this, at all. Richard's one and only serious vote has been Esp. What do you mean by moving between stuff? I thought you were voting him for not providing reasoning for his read-list.
The underlined sentence is ambiguous, which player is the "he" referencing?

Fabricating a weak case is hellishly easy (oh crap Im repeating things word for word again), fabricating one that people believe and go along with is however a lot harder. Why am I going to be interested on page 30, something he has been holding onto 26 pages. My first question would be, "Why did you not bring this up at the time?" or "Why did you allow town to head on a completely different track when you had what you thought was a golden nugget about that player?"

What? A lot of the reason Esp didn't publish his reads was that he said he

didn't

have a conventional case that people would believe and go along with, in addition to wanting to observe more uninterfered.

Oh good, lets all do that, see where it gets us and if he's scum he can go by scot free. If he has a reason to find someone scummy, he should be posting it. I'm standing by this opinion, the fact he has decided not to due to it being "unconventional" does not help town in any way whatsoever.

[Porochaz]

I sorted the "he"'s in the first quote, I should also add that I never voted esp for not putting reasons down.

[Porochaz]

Goddamn it I see what Ive done. Thanks fishy, I put my reasons for disliking esp instead of richard there, I got mixed up, fair enough with your votes.

[Porochaz]

You don't want to do that. Jeez, Oman I thought you would keep a better watch over the game... the one where I vote richard is about esp, I havent changed my vote to answer your question because Im happy with either.

[Porochaz]

Luchris, how do you feel about the game thus far? Who do you suspect the most?

[Porochaz]

I want enough time to change this lynch, so Im claiming now and despite me hoping that at least one person would be smart enough to take the hint, I guess I have to spell it out.

Fullclaim - Im a Watcher.

[Porochaz]

I have my vote on Richard, its not going to change.

[Porochaz]

Meh, disappointed Oman didnt protect me Beyond that not much to say, I didnt follow the game tbh as once Oman did that I didn't feel town had much of a chance.