Mafia 123 - Outdoorsmen Mafia 2 GAME OVER

DeathRowKitty · Post Post #403 (isolation #0) » Fri Jan 28, 2011 6:41 am

Confirming replace in and receipt, understanding, and ingestion of role PM due to extreme hunger etc etc

I'll be busy most of this afternoon, so expect my catch up post to come tonight, most likely.

DeathRowKitty · Post Post #411 (isolation #1) » Fri Jan 28, 2011 9:07 pm

Any objections to me sorting my catch-up post by thread page? No? Good. Also, I'm going to be typing as I'm reading the thread for the first time, so if my opinions seem to jump around a lot, that's why. (Edit while working on page 4: this post is turning out to be fairly dense with the links embedded into the paragraphs. In the not-unlikely event I don't catch up on the entire thread at once, I can try to spread things out a bit more in the next installment of my catching up if it would be easier to read.)

Page 1

Blah blah, mostly confirms. A boring confirmation period except for this typo, which actually made me lol. I'm going to assume Nacho's early vote wasn't particularly serious and give him half a town point for being willing to throw down a really crappy discussion-starting vote. Demon's vote immediately following Nacho seems interesting, but is probably null in the end. Not entirely sure since I've never played with him.

Page 2

Kind of hoping Demon wasn't serious about this. If he was, uhh....actually doesn't say much about his alignment. Sweet, we have our first overreaction of the game!

FoS Guderian

Why so touchy already when we're only on page 2? Ughhhh. Apparently he

was

serious. I hate reading people who get so worked up on nonsense cases. Also, ignore the FoS. I like Guderian's later page 2 posts better. Guessing Demon-Guderian is town on town, but not sure yet. If either is scum, I'd guess Demon.

Page 3

So it seems Nacho might be serious (this game needed more nonsense, right?) And what is with everyone trying to call scum teams by page 3? Do you actually think that so many scum have posted when only about half the players have?

FoS Parama

. Too confident for page 3 of a game in which several players haven't posted and too much based on scum team speculation. Early on, I would expect town to play more like they would in a single scum team game, whereas scum would have a specific team on their mind they're looking for. ender241 can get an

FoS

too for this. I'm tentatively giving some town points to tyler for this. Not quite sure why, but something about it seems town. Oh, and as far as setup speculation goes, 10-3-3 wouldn't surprise me. 12-2-2 seems pretty underpowered for scum, especially considering I've been in an 8-2-2 mountainous before (well, to be fair, I think all 4 scum were alive at the start of the final day-night cycle, but the fact that it probably wasn't horrendously imbalanced makes me think adding 4 more town to it would be bad, especially since we've already had a doc flip). Town points for EPM for his level-headed response here. It would have been too easy in this mess for scum to get nervous or desperate. ender gets some more scum points for this. Scum tend to enjoy setup speculation. It doesn't require them to take any stances and they enjoy knowing stuff the townies don't and want to share it. Hey, quote wars on page 3. Awesome! *skips over end of page* I don't see that argument being particularly fruitful. Demon has faded into more of a neutral-maybe-possibly-very-slightly scummy read.

Page 4

Aaaand nham joins the party. Minor town points for his first post of content. The angle he took in looking at the game feels town in some strange way. Lol. An awesome point or two for Tripod. Not quite as big a fan of nham's second post, but that was probably inevitable. I'm pretty much skipping over the quote walls again. I like the vote at the end of this post though. :thumbs up: I'm kind of seeing Demon as town at this point. I think that's all that changed on that page that I didn't mention yet. Oh, and Tripod is maybe sort of possibly town. We'll see.

Page 5

Glad Empking found plenty to comment on here. I know that's part of his play style and all, but it's stupid. Not sure whether or not he was right. I'm really hesitant to call not knowing there were 2 scum teams a scum tell though. I would be surprised if the scum role PM didn't say there were multiple mafia teams (it would make sense that it would, since the town one did). Seems like something that would come up in scum pre-game talk at some point and I doubt scum would be unaware of it. (Also, I didn't notice my role PM said 2 scum teams until someone pointed it out in thread. It's really not that hard to miss.) Parama comes back for a post and does nothing to alleviate suspicions of him. Well, maybe very slightly. I still consider him one of the scummiest thus far. Actually, on second thought....no, never mind, I have no second thought. I was lucky enough to have one! Fence sitting is fence.

FoS werewolf

. Meh at ender replacing out. I always hate it when someone I find scummy does that. I should probably point out now (and I just realized it) that I don't at all remember who I replaced and I figure there's no harm in not checking now. After I've posted this, I'll take a look and see what I've said about myself. iamausername can take a place on my prob-town list for this. I need clarification on this post. Mastin, did you know your role when you wrote that? Not sure what to make of werewolf. I can never tell if he's misguided town or scummyscumscum. Luckily, if memory serves me correctly, he's already dead (town doc, amirite?)

Page 6

Parama is starting to seem less scummy and more obnoxious around here. Does he always play like this?...actually, I just remembered I saw his day 1 play in an ongoing game in which he is now dead. Hello, Mr. Obnoxious. Nice to meet you again. I'm DeathRowKitty. /sigh.

Page 7

I'm glad don replaced someone who hadn't posted yet. I was nervous I might have accidentally had him as a town read because of his predecessor's actions

As for his actual post, I'm calling it null for now. Maybe slightly town, as sick as it makes me to say that. To be honest, I'm ignoring most of Mastin's posting at this point. I have a town read on the slot for the time being and I don't think it would really be worth the time to try to trudge through a wall of text every time he decides to make a post.

Page 8

First impression of bvoigt is pretty null for me. Maaaaaybe slightly town, but I'd like more elaboration from him before drawing any conclusions on that. yesyesyesyeysyes my strongest scum read was scum

...okay, excitement over. We get chkflip's first real post. I wanted to call it townish for its seemingly even-handed perspective of the game, but it also gives me a bit of a feeling of someone looking down on the game, which seems more of a scum viewpoint. Could just be confidence though. Overall, slightly town, I guess. Hello Parama, start making useful posts, please and thank you.

Well, I'm almost halfway through the game and I think it's time I took a break. I'll probably be around for a couple more hours if there's anything anyone wants me to address, but I'm saving the other half of the thread for later. Oh, and...uhh...sorry for the wall of text. My posts usually aren't too long.

DeathRowKitty · Post Post #412 (isolation #2) » Fri Jan 28, 2011 9:23 pm

Upon seeing who I replaced, bump chkflip up to obv-town in the above post

DeathRowKitty · Post Post #417 (isolation #3) » Sat Jan 29, 2011 6:46 am

Parama wrote:I'd give you meta on this showing how I do this literally every game, but meta sucks so I'll just wait until my page 3 "guesses" turn out to be correct and you look like an idiot for calling me out on them.

I acknowledged later in my post that a lot of what I'd initially found you scummy for was probably play style. Just as a matter of curiosity, how often are your page 3 "guesses" right?

DeathRowKitty · Post Post #420 (isolation #4) » Sat Jan 29, 2011 8:37 am

Finishing my catch up post and hopefully putting a vote down. I'm likely going to ignore DGB's posts unless something really stands out as a possible connection. Ignoring Guderian and werewolf too, but they don't post quite so much.

Page 9

The spoilered section of Mastin's post made me look a bit closer at Ross's first post. I initially wasn't sure what to make of Ross's post (I don't think I even mentioned it in my first catch up post), so I'd pretty much ignored it. Actually, I just changed my mind. >.< I was about to say it was scummy (something about the setup speculating), but I don't actually think what he said was scummy. In fact, I agree with Mastin that it seems town (but not for the same reasons). Slight scum points for this, I guess.

Page 10

Speaking of bvoigt this is quite interesting. To be honest, I think he would more likely be a member of the non-DGB scum team than the DGB scum team, but it's still interesting. This looks like a vote based on differing opinions, rather than based on scumminess. Scum points to don (yayyyyyy!). bvoigt now takes to following others. If bvoigt knew werewolf was active and posting elsewhere, it seems weird it would only occur to him to bring it up after werewolf gained a couple of votes. bvoigt now my biggest scum read.

Page 11

Parama update: still obnoxious and now lining up lynches. Hesitant scum? Meh, Demon is all over the town-scum spectrum this game. I might need to do a separate reread of just him to sort him out. Don makes an interesting point about it I hadn't considered. Putting Demon into the scum pile for the moment.

Page 12

Another post from Demon I don't like. Seems like a strange time for him to suddenly be hesitant about his votes when he's been stupidly aggressive all game.

FoS DemonHybrid

. No idea what to make of this. Is it bad that I'm currently seeing that as a slight town tell? Scumhammer alert. Hello Demon. Welcome to my top scum spot. I do agree that there's likely scum on the wagon though. Not sure whether or not I agree with him about where. Parama's post seems fake. I still have him overall leaning town, but I really can't stand his play style. In fact, his play style gets its own separate paragraph at the end of this post. Lol. I really wish he didn't have to get modkilled for that (to be honest, I'm not sure he did need to, considering nothing was mentioned that couldn't be determined from looking at the thread, but meh).

Page 13

Lol.

Page 14

Scummy? Maybe? Mmmm, probably not. Keeping EPM as town for the moment.

Also, we need to know Guderian's real role at some point. "Not mafia" is insufficient if we run into any claims later in the game....actually, Guderian was

probably

vanilla townie or at least some role with no active power. Haylen would have known his role if he'd had to send a night action. I still want to know though. What if he was a town two-shot doctor, for example?

Page 15

At first glance, it bothered me how fast the wagon seemed to build up on DemonHybrid. On second glance, it really isn't that fast and the votes don't seem particularly suspect. The back and forth between EPM and bvoigt seems really stupid. More scum points to bvoigt for this worthless post. Looks more like an excuse to attack him than a reason.

Page 16

So much for the RossWilliam spot. Meh. Oh, never mind, BM has since replaced in for him. Cool. His entrance is reading as town to me for the moment. No good reason to give for that really. It just feels that way. </3

Page 17

DRK's first post of content is obv-town. I won't be voting for him today.

I am now caught-up. As promised, a little something regarding Parama:

Spoiler: Parama's Play Style

Vote: DemonHybrid

DeathRowKitty · Post Post #421 (isolation #5) » Sat Jan 29, 2011 8:52 am

Oh, and a little night kill speculation:

The DGB kill makes a lot of sense for a scum team. DGB is a dangerous scumhunter and was explicitly called town by at least 2 or 3 players. The Guderian kill, however, is more interesting.

Guderian was suspected by multiple players at various points throughout day 1 and, as far as I can remember, didn't make any particularly significant contributions to the game. My guess (yes, rampant speculation and such) is that the scum team that killed Guderian thought he was a member of the other scum team and didn't expect to be able to get him lynched in the near future. It might be worth looking into who suspected Guderian, especially if they can also be tied in some way to DGB.

/end speculation

DeathRowKitty · Post Post #424 (isolation #6) » Sat Jan 29, 2011 10:12 am

Active lurking isn't what I was objecting to. Not sure this is the place to argue about play style though. I just felt like I needed to at least bring it up.

DeathRowKitty · Post Post #428 (isolation #7) » Sat Jan 29, 2011 6:34 pm

I don't think I mentioned UT much in my catch up posts (did I mention him at all aside from his Holes post?) mostly because he hasn't done much on which to base a read. My read on him is fairly null, but leaning slightly town. If for no other reason (and to be honest, I can't remember whether or not there is another reason), I consider his Holes post a slight town tell. iamausername could be right that it was really "a completely obvious case of scum standing on the sidelines egging on a wagon on town", but it seems to me more like a townie trying to cut through the nonsense in a game to get more important things going.

DeathRowKitty · Post Post #435 (isolation #8) » Sun Jan 30, 2011 11:50 am

@bvoigt
Regarding the werewolf thing, I might have misinterpreted "Yeah, werewolf logged in yesterday" as "I saw werewolf logged in yesterday" instead of "I now see that he posted yesterday." I'll drop that point against you.

DeathRowKitty · Post Post #436 (isolation #9) » Sun Jan 30, 2011 1:35 pm

Okay, time to do a little analysis on the werewolf wagon. Not sure where this may or may not be headed, but it should be interesting to look at (I quoted the relevant posts in spoilers to avoid this post getting too unmanageably long from all the quoting; the links before each spoiler are to the spoilered posts):

Post 238

Spoiler: iamausername

At the time of this post, the votes were as follows:

Spoiler: Votecount

The two most recent votes at the time were DGB's for DemonHybrid and don_johnson's for Guderian. I don't see don's vote as having any relevance to iamausername's vote, but DGB's (in theory, at least) could. With DGB's vote making DemonHybrid the leading wagon, the werewolf wagon could have been set up as a counterwagon if DH is scum. It would be unfair to pin that on iamausername (one vote does not a wagon make), but it's something to note when looking at early votes on the werewolf wagon.

@iamausername
Why did you choose werewolf to vote over other players that weren't posting? There were plenty of players not posting and you'd only actually mentioned werewolf once before this vote.

Post 239

Spoiler: bvoigt

I actually kind of like this post this time around. He unvoted off a wagon that had just gotten a second vote to join a wagon that had just gotten its first vote, so it wasn't exactly a wagon hop and the fact that he basically supplied the first reasoning for the wagon (that he found after iamausername's vote) reads like town getting a handle on the game vs. scum looking for a wagon to join. It's also probably rare for scum to follow a vote one post after it's made. I might need to read him again to get a better picture of him. Overall, I would say this vote was not suspicious.

Post 242

Spoiler: DrippingGoofball

This vote is interesting and partly because DGB's already flipped scum. Let's look back at the experiment she decided to interrupt for this:

Post 234, post 235, and post 236

Spoiler: DGB's Experiment

The fact that DH left it at that is interesting, considering I seem to recall (my memory is awful for things like this, but meh) that he's been pretty persistent in following up on things he started. Not sure we really need a verdict on whether or not DGB's vote was scummy, but I would say it makes DH more likely to be scum.

Post 243

Spoiler: evilpacman18

I somehow didn't notice this the first time around, but I do find it somewhat scummy now. He makes reference to his scumlist, but looking at his iso, he really hadn't commented on many players and I'm not sure if he'd given any strong reads at that point. This post redeems him a bit on that point, but the whole "he's top of my scumlist" thing reads as an easy out for having to give anything better. Verdict: scummy vote. My gut read on him is still town though and I don't plan on voting him for the time being.

I'm going to be lazy now and say I'll finish this later. Don't feel like doing the rest now. If someone else wants to finish it, that's fine too.

DeathRowKitty · Post Post #442 (isolation #10) » Mon Jan 31, 2011 8:30 am

@Calcifer
I didn't know who died except DGB until several pages in and even then, I didn't know she replaced ender until I got to the mod's announcement in thread. I actually didn't realized I'd FoSed all the dead players until you mentioned it >_<

I'm in class right now, so I'll continue the werewolf wagon analysis later.

DeathRowKitty · Post Post #742 (isolation #11) » Sat Mar 05, 2011 11:49 am

Mastin, in the dead QT wrote:Dang. SharkFinn needs a title like "Hammerhead". FOUR hammers in a row?!?

Done

I probably shouldn't have made myself look so town as mason, but I really thought my reads were bad enough it wouldn't matter so much. :s This is why VT is my favorite role.

Oh well. Well-played by Iam the final couple of days to work his way out of a lynch. Town really didn't play badly until then, but I suppose that's life (where life=mafia).

DeathRowKitty · Post Post #751 (isolation #12) » Tue Mar 08, 2011 10:59 am

Haylen, in QT wrote:Is your content 30 pages? or the Unabridged version?

Win

We had a mason QT, but we kind of didn't discuss the game at all >.>

DeathRowKitty · Post Post #752 (isolation #13) » Tue Mar 08, 2011 11:03 am

Well, we discussed the game a bit, but we probably spent more of the night discussing things not related to the game

DeathRowKitty · Post Post #754 (isolation #14) » Wed Mar 09, 2011 7:49 am

...except he was scum?

DeathRowKitty · Post Post #756 (isolation #15) » Thu Mar 10, 2011 2:07 pm

How sweet <3