Oldy Mafia (Game Over, who won?)

[Porochaz]

Hi guys. Ive read the thread and everything. Think

vote ythill

, his actions yesterday started well, but as soon as people started agreeing with him, he got weird.

[Porochaz]

I'm here. Working on an analysis post.

@Poro:

I attacked Ecto in the early day and, from his responses, correctly read him to be town. It had nothing to do with people agreeing with me. If more people had continued to agree with me, we might still have a doc.

I don't think that should be a part of the basis of this though. You switched as soon as people started getting involved. There is more to this but that is the main point. It just seems convenient that you do a 180 as soon as people start to vote.

[Porochaz]

Hrm... it's hard to tell whether Ecto's reaction is faked or not. Normally, a reaction to scum-or-stupid solidifies or disproves my read. This game is not going to be easy.

Meh. I've been parked for too long anyway.

UNVOTE: Ectomancer
VOTE: Mert

The way you unvoted though, its weak. I understand the initial evidence, I would have voted Ecto around the same time you did, that early post of his reeked. The difference is that one line. I wouldn't have moved my vote unless I had significant reason, I wouldn't have removed it because "I've been parked for too long anyway" and from my thought process of your questioning you didn't really disprove or solidify anything in your opinion, so you didnt have a point to removing your vote.

[Porochaz]

As I have exams this week (friday) Im vla until the day after. I do plan on making a post today however.

[Porochaz]

Caught up but not as much as I'd like

unvote

, Ythill's play hasn't really changed my read on him. The problem with him is up until that unvote I was actually liking where he was going... however I have unvoted conditionally because my vote is going to need more research that I dont have the time to do just now (remember I said I would be back tomorrow - I currently have a cider in one hand and a morgans and coke in the other) and based off todays play so far, Im really open to a Shanba vote. However I want to go through his day 1 posts before I put a vote down. Other news, I havent seen the reason to vote CDB beyond a lurker vote. Ill reread him but as I dont see the point now, I think this will be a wagon Ill miss. Inhims vote I dont care about particularly since my day 1 read of him wasn't the most flattering.

[Porochaz]

I wouldnt say I revere it, but I like it, I would like to know more about its effectiveness and what it does first though beyond vca before I put any faith into it.

[Porochaz]

Noone going to mention yet another ythill weird unvote? I havent had the time to do any rereads yet but at the same time Im more happy to leave my vote on ythill now

vote ythill

[Porochaz]

Jesus Christ this game is moving way too fast. Any time I come in, there is another page, at least. I saw you jumping off a significant wagon, or changing your vote without any real reason. I also see you asking other people to voting the same way (page 43ish). Granted I havent fully integrated into this game but I have absolutely no idea what the CDB wagon is about beyond lynching a lurker.

[Porochaz]

Ythill at the top of the page.

[Porochaz]

Because the wagon makes no sense?

[Porochaz]

And why arent we lynching ythill?

[Porochaz]

Porochaz, what do you think of inHim, Shanba and Yos?

I saw it, will answer it fully soon. I think I have already spoken about about all (bar Yos) at some point. Anyway the summary is, 1, scummy, 2, scum and 3, town but it might just be from the vast amount of posts that I struggle to read.

[Porochaz]

Hi. I plan to read over the large majority of the game and post something (finally) substantial today and maintain a level of activity that this slot hasnt seen thus far. Im hoping I can do this whilst the majority of the players are away so that we are not on page 75 by the time Im done.

[Porochaz]

Apologies, as I have said in a few other threads, today has been a turbulent day. This will have to wait till I wake up tomorrow.

[Porochaz]

Ill tell you where I am. My grandpa died last night. So understandably (I hope) this game has taken somewhat of a backseat. I have started writing notes on all the players but its really time consuming (and its now 5.30am) so I have done up to page 20, and I hope to get the rest done tomorrow.

[Porochaz]

You realise, right, that if you were to engage me in conversation, it might help in evolving your opinion of me? Im doing my best here with my RL problems, (and am back to do the next chunk of my reading) to get my feet on solid ground. I mean I'm up to page 20, do you want me to post my notes on you, personally up till then?

[Porochaz]

You realise, right, that if you were to engage me in conversation, it might help in evolving your opinion of me? Im doing my best here with my RL problems, (and am back to do the next chunk of my reading) to get my feet on solid ground. I mean I'm up to page 20, do you want me to post my notes on you, personally up till then?

I'm not really concerned with what you think of me.

I guess if you could rank {CES, MBL, Yos, Gurgi} or something that'd be cool.

In the first 20 pages...

Lord Gurgi/MBL - Town
Yos - Town but slightly less so
CES - I have nothing written down about him, which is neither good nor bad.

MBL has mirrored a lot of what I thought early on, later he caught some things on ythill I missed which I found interesting. His posting has been high quality in my eyes.

Gurgis posts have been semi infrequent but again, I havent got anything in the negative collumn, I dont have much on him to be honest beyond saying good post numerous times.

Yos, my feeling comes from his arguments with Ythill, where he come off way better. Post 81 is a negative, in that I feel he probably shouldnt be replying to a post about who should be voted him or ythill, (particularly at that point I felt that in this case he shouldnt be defending himself and ythill was at a low point on the scum rating). However overall in the lengthy discussion with ythill he came off a lot better.

[Porochaz]

Thats me done up to page 40 now.

[Porochaz]

I would prefer to post before any hammer takes place. Im going through the last 20 pagres tomorrow. I am very very dirnk rught now. Im kinda doing a vollkan style points added and taken away kind of thing. Why s bollkan not here. I miss him desptie him being in one of my last 2 games. Looking at my notes, I see Ive written a lot on ythill comparitively to everyone else. Not a lot on Hackerhuck. I mean wtf? I think across the board, ythill has done some scummy things, but he has some "positive" points as well. However out of everyone on my reread, H.H. is probably the worst. Long periods of nothing then "jesus what the fuck was that". I know my notes are going to seem dissapointing but at the same time, H.H. is the one who jumps out at me now. L.G. too in that he is the one I have least notes for as of page 40. (Having said that, all that I have is positive) I know Ive semi said Shanba is scummy before but as of page 40 and before, I kinda feel Ive misjudged him. nhim has been throwing very slushy snowballs throughout the game.

[Porochaz]

So, by my posts, would anyone not agree that I've sorted out the players something like this?

Town
CTD, HH, Ether, CDB, DGB
Baby Bump Below
Ythill, chamber
We can MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEET IN THE MIDDLE
Yos, Glork, Shanba
For Killing
CES, MBL, Gurgi, Porochaz

MBL is full of it. FULL OF IT.




And by it I mean shit.

Thats another slushy snowball...

[Porochaz]

I havent, yet but I am keeping up with current posting. You once again going "oh Prozacs scum and... and... and... MBL IS TOO! CAUSE HE ATTACKED ME!!!" is a weak bit of splaffing if I ever saw it.

[Porochaz]

I want to finish my last 20 pages before

[Porochaz]

I vote. Goddamn the submit being before the preview button.

[Porochaz]

ah whoops

unvote

[Porochaz]

Sorry for the delay, doing the last 20 pages now.

[Porochaz]

Porochaz, what do you think of inHim, Shanba and Yos?

I saw it, will answer it fully soon. I think I have already spoken about about all (bar Yos) at some point. Anyway the summary is, 1, scummy, 2, scum and 3, town but it might just be from the vast amount of posts that I struggle to read.

I want to revise this.

1. Scum, 2. Townie and 3. Townie.

Also Im going to have my tea soon. This is where Im up to.

[Porochaz]

Porochaz, what do you think of inHim, Shanba and Yos?

I saw it, will answer it fully soon. I think I have already spoken about about all (bar Yos) at some point. Anyway the summary is, 1, scummy, 2, scum and 3, town but it might just be from the vast amount of posts that I struggle to read.

I want to revise this.

1. Scum, 2. Townie and 3. Townie.

Also Im going to have my tea soon. This is where Im up to.

Fail, fail, and fail.

Porochaz, are you scum?

I am glad you disagree. I mean after all we have someone who likes to say people who is scum/town without really giving reasons then can't decide if he is a nurse or a vanilla townie, and your not seeing the scumminess there?

The way I see it, youve spent most of the latter part of the day pushing yos when it wasn't imperative that he had to and then long after. Whatr else have you done? Cause Im not seeing it.

[Porochaz]

I am done. Im taking a break, but Ill post my notes in there raw form later. I should point out Ive done a vollkan style thing of adding/subtracting points. It worked in one way but I did focus more on the negative. I want to sum up more concisely. I also have (mostly) put post numbers but wont link them, I dont know how to do it easily. I also want to write a line or two summarising on each player but that wont take long.

Also lulz at infinite overlord Glork. Of course you have, as you know everything but please, tell me, why we (or I) should listen to you, when I dont really have much positive to attribute to you?

[Porochaz]

FUCK FUCK FUCK. MY POST WAS HALF DONE THEN "THIS PAGE IS TEMPORARILY UNAVAILABLE" THEN NOTHING. WHERE THE FUCK HAS MY POST GONE!

[Porochaz]

Time to start again...

[Porochaz]

Urgh the amount of links and formatting... its going to be fun...

[Porochaz]

Lets try again.

My i button is sticky.

Italics means added after notes.

Points arent accurate to my views but the summary underneath explains more clearly and the verdict is my final deliberation. They are awarded mainly from + 3 (good posting) to - 3 (bad posting) with a few 4's peppered in there.

Also as I am doing this for the second time, Im going to go in 3 parts based on the player list.

Group 1. Yos to Glork
Group 2. CES to Ether/Stark
Group 3. Inhim to MBL then the 3 dead 'uns.

I will try linking but as I said in my first draft, who knows how long that will last. Also for sanities sake I will not be linking whole pages

Going to save a draft using that handy function after every person.

So lets get started:

1. Yos

Post 54 - Yos rebutts Ythill well + 1
Post 79 - Boring argument with Ythill
Post 81 - Not getting the scumminess here, however as the post is regarding scumtor and himself, he probably shouldnt be rebutting it the way he did. - 1
Post 286 - Good Post + 1
Post 994 - Horrible back tracking in the last paragrpaph - 3
Post 1261 - Never really seen yos get emotional in a game before.
Page 58. Shanba vs Yos. Very Town vs Town + 2

Overall - 0

More emotional play than Ive seen from yos but I feel he has a right to feel frustrated, the yos wagon was mostly non reasoned. I have nothing major to say from him, he's played solidly and has been active and scumhunting throughout.

Verdict: TOWNIE

DGB (with IH, although not really)

IH I have no notes on but then it's IH...

Post 417 - Good Start + 2
Post 605 - Too much splaffing - 1
Post 853 - Makes a mockery of her system by assuming Inhim is town

this isnt due to my stance on inhim but her values become meaningless if she starts interjecting her own opinion into them

- 2
Post 874 - Iffy Point - 1
Post 1089 - Please vig CES!!!
Post 1104 - Votes #4 on her list, why? - 2
Post 1207 - Disagree lurker =/= scum
Post 1230 - Pushing WAY to hard - 2
Post 1386 - Why is DGB not voting CES yet is pushing hard for his lynch? - 2
Claimed + 4

Overall - -4

A good start, marred by both the scumputer which loses credibility as soon as she starts adding her own scumreads and then she pushes hard on someone but takes a whole lot longer to vote for. She has claimed however.

Verdict: TOWN(ie)

3. Shanba

Post 241 - A player like Shanba does not get to post an incredibly wrong one liner without explanation after such an absence. - 2
Post 248 - Fence sitting on Ecto - 1
Post 255, I think Not sure why he's pursuing it so hard?
- WHERE?
Post 568 - Don't agree with the post but its a good explanation in regards to yos. + 2
Post 653 - Stretch - 1
Post 823 - Don't like the case on yos but not scummy.
Post 904 - Least he's consistant, I like his continuing stance on Ecto despite disagreeng + 2
Post 1249 - This is the kind of Shanbatown post I feel have been lacking in this game.
Page 58. Shanba vs Yos again + 2.

I also have a post number written down on another sheet of paper I think was attributed to you, but was in note of someone else. Will look into it later.

Overall - +2

Shanba has not until recently been playing to meta however his reasons early on account for that. Almost all his posts whilst I have disagreed with a great many of them, have been well explained.

Verdict: TOWN

4. Flameaxe

For what its worth, looking back, the people on the mert wagon and the mert wagon itself, I'd be iffy about it myself. I understand that it was better at the time than a no lynch but a lurker wagon which had Ythill, Imhim, CES on it. It doesn't look good and it came out of nowhere.

5. CTD

Pages 3/4 - Whats with the wagon?
Post 101 - Calls Fritz out + 1/2
Post 138 - Level headed, agree with stance on Ecto + 3
Post 892 - Doesn't unvote despite other cases being stronger - 2.5
Post 1001 - Struggling to see CDB case, UT fine, CDB is lurker though. - 1
Post 1162 - Good posting but not a very major point. + 1
Post 1172 - Statements add up to me - 1

Overall - +1

I'll be honest, a lot of what CTD has sad has interested. Haven't had much to go on, plays in bursts. Don't like the yos line of questioning however.

Verdict: TOWNIE

6. Glork

- Forgot about Glork
- Bad Vote! - 2
Post 203 - Glork Fail - 1
Anticipation

for something useful

growing...
Post 505/506 - Bad Posting - Fence sitting -Theorising about 2 scum teams with no evidence. - 3
Post 524 - contradiction to the extreme - 3
Post 1077 - Glork holding MBL to account, really like this post + 2
Page 44 - Good series of posts
Post 1185 - Would quite like Glork to say something useful? - 1
Post 1576 - Why is Glork pushing for a yos claim?

when it isn't imperative he does so?

- 1
Post 1592 - Still no idea why he would have claimed.

Overall: - 7

Glork was fairly useless, which isnt like him. The whole yos thing is leaving a bad taste in my mouth. Im worried about his fluff:reasoning ratio, that seems to be way too high in the fluff section.

Verdict: SCUMMY.

Done. Next group contains Ythill... which will be fun...

[Porochaz]

Heh, mine went a lot further than yours did into the negative.

Im going to do Group 3 first the reason for which will become apparent. I dont think Im going to get it all done tonight, is the main reason and there is a lot less (obv.) notes from the dead players.

[Porochaz]

In regards to all I should point out, I did all the dead people, I did the notes as if they were present. As it allowed me to get a foot in the game. Also it was easier.

13. Inhim

Here we go...

Post 111 - "Non"-vote - Terrible post - READ IT - 3
Post 183/4 - Up till now Inhim has been kinda weak - 1
Post 468 - NO REASONING - NO SENSE!!! - 3
Post 635 - Still no reasoning on my predecessor - 1

for those not looking at the links, this is not related to the previous comment

Post 783 - Bad baseless vote - 2

The rest written after the slushy snowball convo...

Post 1037 - This is one. - 1
Post 1134 - Where did yos say he was suspcous of Gurgi here? - misrep - 1
Post 1133 - Another slushy snowball. - 1
Post 1140 - Clear as mud
Post 1143 - These votes are starting to mean next to nothing now. - 1
Post 1153 - No
Post 1341 -

This is

MBL's post - almost hammers someone he thinks is town - 3
Post 1344 - Then he doesn't respond to the point! - 2
Page 59 Where's Inhim gone?
Post 1482 - Why though?
Post 1483 - 2 slushy snowball posts in a row. - 2
Post 1523 - If you know your own meta then you can change it. Therefore nullified.
Post 1535 - Another quick vote change

Im going to link the start of this, and list the rest.

Posts 1545 essentially to 1569Worried spamming, mostly useless.
Post 1567ANOTHER change of vote based on little - 2
Post 1568Fake claimed Nurse. - 4.

This should now be auto-lynch

Page 67 - still spamming.

Overall: -23

Has been at me for days, yet no reason. I'm struggling to understand his position on pretty much anything. His vote on me, if anything is a lurker vote, which after what has gone on within the game, does not hold up. His vote changes are all terrible. When he posts its fluff or weak hits with no reasoning behind them (ie. slushy snowballs). He's been doing it all game. Even forgetting that, the almost hammer and the fake claim is more than enough.

Verdict: SCUM

vote Inhim

14. Chamber

Post 70 - No idea about the CTD wagon - 1
Post 155 - Chamber hasnt done much yet.
Post 197 - Did not answer stark. - 1
Post 432 - 2 mafia's, why? - 1
Page 53 - Posts against DGB good. + 2

Overall: - 1

My initial readthrough when I started the game I had a problem with chamber, don't know what it is though. Need to talk to him more.

Verdict: NULL

15. MBL

Post 128 - Echoes my posts thus far. + 2
Post 167 - I wish he made high quality short posts.
Post 382 - High quality posting, the ythill change particularly + 2
Post 602 - Rebutts Ecto well + 2
Post 1200 - I like MBL's way of playing, bit of a blast from the past. I can understand people's frustration about his scumhunting technique though, would like to see a vote.
Post 1341 - Good Catch, I didn't see it. +3
Same post - Why no vote though - 2
Post 1434 - Lulz at ironic voting.

Overall: 7

See 1200. Too verbose though, particularly for a dyslexic!

Verdict: TOWN

16. Fritzler

I did all the dead people properly, but with Fritz it consists of me getting more frustrated with things like "useless" and "getting pissed off now". I had a major negative against him in that he was pushing others to vote with no reason (and others followed!) He ended with a score of -7 and the summation was MOSTLY USELESS!

17. Mert

Post 153 - Odd, but decent clear post + 1
Post 303 - maintains this
Post 574 - Why hasnt Mert been replaced?

Overall: + 1

Good notes...

Lurker... but never should have been lynched.

18. Ecto

Page 2. votes stark for alliance and wonders why that method for asking for one. Still random stage but at the same time, felt like a slap on the wrists. - 1
Post 67 - Madness - 1
Post 112 - starks, - 2
Post 117 - Yet another fail post, also lol at last line. - 2
Page 12. Emotional train wreck. - 3
Post 301 - refusal to claim - 2
Post 594 - Struggling to understand his position. - 2
Post 606 - Does claim + 4

Overall: - 9

I felt he was very scum motivated in the way he played. I would have been voting right up until he claimed. He was too emotional and the whole "playstyle"/excuses thing felt very forced to me.

[Porochaz]

4.15am, thats me done for tonight. 6 more peeps to go. Summation if I dont get there.

CES - 10 SCUM
Lord Gurgi 1 TOWNIE
CD -4.5 NULL but had a nice rant.
Ythill -21 SCUM
H.H. -5. NULL
Ether/Stark 6.5 TOWN

[Porochaz]

Wow, 21+ points worth of fail. That's going to be embarrassing if you're town.

Skipping to your conclusion... I assume you have no problem placing inHim @ L-1?

I changed my order and voted for him so I could do so.

[Porochaz]

YOUR

unvote
vote: CES

I'm there.

QUICK

unvote
vote: Porochaz

VOTE

unvote
vote: Yos

CHANGES

unvote : Yos

vote: Porochaz

HAVE

unvote
vote: Yosarian2

LOST THEIR

unvote
vote: Lord Gurgi

I'll hammer Yos, but am up for one of these crazy last second wagons.

MEANING

[Porochaz]

Er, not sure where your getting that conclusion from. Your votes mean nothing, you are constantly switching at the drop of a hat, which in rvs is passable, just now it looks like your desperately trying to find a wagon that keeps you alive rather than actually making a case. I should have posted the full posts as there is nothing there to explain any of your votes properly.

[Porochaz]

All this infighting, and CES is still breathing.

unvote
vote: CES

I'm there.

Ok then, let me stick my money where my mouth is. Im glad you explained this one so thoroughly.

So, by my posts, would anyone not agree that I've sorted out the players something like this?

Town
CTD, HH, Ether, CDB, DGB
Baby Bump Below
Ythill, chamber
We can MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEET IN THE MIDDLE
Yos, Glork, Shanba
For Killing
CES, MBL, Gurgi, Porochaz

MBL is full of it. FULL OF IT.




And by it I mean shit.

Thats another slushy snowball...

Ah, so we've read up, just stalling on posting?

Cool.

ATTENTION ALL SLUSHY SNOWBALLERS: I KINDLY REQUEST A POROCHAZ LYNCH.

unvote
vote: Porochaz

With your vote on me you are now picking holes to make your suspicions look like something which doesn't resemble nothing (and by that point in my reread I was no where near done), and you were attacking MBL cause essentially he attacked you. Either way, weak vote with little reasoning.

I really dislike InHim's porochaz vote here, which seems to be because he doesn't like that porochaz criticized his scum list.

I just read this again and it infuriates me all the more.

Then vote me, spineless scum coward - you've certainly "not liked" enough of my recent posts to warrant what most townies would do. Or are you just going to throw stones and wait for me to be lynched?

Fine, switch Yos' and MBL's positions on that chart. This is ridiculous.

unvote
vote: Yos

Another vote based on the fact someones attacked you.

unvote : Yos

You've got me by the heartstrings for now, Yos. I did lose my cool because I did

not

want to exit this game, and it probably pushed me way over the edge there.

Back to scum.

vote: Porochaz

Emotions excuse for the last vote and reverts back to the safe vote on me which had little to no reason to begin with and never built upon or attacked properly.

Well... I do have a bit of a bone to pick with Yos now.

I answered his question about what I accomplished out of my claim. I answered, on my cell phone no less. Do you realize how painful cell phone posting is? And Yos ignores it, choosing to only pick up where his detractors start arguing again. From the tone of his previous posts, if I had explained myself, he would unvote. But with the heat coming in on him, oh, let's just put inHim over in the corner and let him get deadline lynched. I guess, Gurgi, that this is also textbook scum survivalism in action?

unvote
vote: Yosarian2

I have more.

Lulz at this AtE. Your voting yos here, because... well because you fakeclaimed. Badly. And yos attacked you for it. Again attacking the person who's attacking you on weak grounds. (if any here)

First, GURGI,

inHim: Stop trying this. You're scum, he's only probably scum. Whatever he flips you'll still be scum in my eyes. I keep telling everyone you're scummy as all hell for trying to push the other leading wagon. Not to mention you called him town most of the game, then reevaluated when it was between you or him.

this is not what you said here:

Is it really necessary to break that into three posts to address one of my own?

I want you dead. After you are dead, if you flip town I am going to look at Yos and DGB. If scum, Huck. What I was saying is that you're either very stupidly bussing Yos here, or you're not scum with him. One way to find out!

No, getting Yos to tell you something could be achieved otherwise. It doesn't require doing the scummiest thing you could do when pressured to claim short of claiming scum. It drives me nuts that you react to my accusations by calling me scum then dander off to push a Yos wagon, and then no one else does anything about it.

But, sure, call me Mad-Eye Moody and go about your business. BTW, Gurgi stopped actually arguing with me over the weekend now that it's so close to the deadline and has resorted to "inHim stopped making sense long ago."

If Im honest Im not sure I totally understand what the hell you are trying to say. However what Im seeing is that he thinks you are scum in both posts. He needs to answer to his yos change of thought so yeah you have a point in your favour there, but in the end, it took DGB to post some fluff for you to go along with it. Why? Why didnt you vote for him here? after all it would have been your one decent vote of the day.

[Porochaz]

K I am currently out of town at the funeral, so Im V/LA for a few days then I will post the rest later.

[Porochaz]

Ether, why the vote?

[Porochaz]

CES is somehow trying to overtake Ythill in the who is most scummy stakes.

[Porochaz]

Reasons?

[Porochaz]

Reasons?

I do indeed have reasons.

Well Im glad your sharing them so we can have a productive conversation about them.

[Porochaz]

Im on but its 4am, Im just keeping read up.

[Porochaz]

Ok Im back from funeral and moving back into uni. Let me fetch my notes and I will continue, but seeing as ythill claimed, I will probably truncate them a bit.

[Porochaz]

K Lets get started on this last part, these notes are taken up to the point of the last few, I have (up until about page 80) been keeping track. So my thoughts might not be 100% up to date.

7. HackerHuck

Page 9. The rare time HH posts, he fails. - 2.5
Dont have a post number - votes mert with weak reasoning at deadline when she has no chance to defend. - 1.5
Post 765 Lulz at this, 1 scum in 5 listed names... - 1
Post 880 Disagree but written well.
Post 1348Finally something useful[/url] + 1

Total = - 4

I found early on HH only really posted when he needed to and was not being very useful. I havent really agreed with much he has said especially in regards to Mert but having said that, his latter posts have been a lot better.

Overall: Null

8. Ether/Stark

Page 2. - "Glork, alliance?" (random) - 0.5
Post 112 - Great post against Ecto, didnt pick it up + 3
Post 129 - + 2
Post 212? - Another Good Post + 2

Ive written it down as 217, I think I meant 212.

Total = + 6.5

Starks posts against Ecto have been really convincing, he has posted regularly and has often caught stuff I have missed. Ether hasn't really entered the game but I would like her to get involved more

which I see she has

Overall: Town

9. ChanelDelibird/UT

Post 99 - Way to serious - 1.5
Page 34/35 - Not (squiggle)?

I really dont know what this says but it might reference the lurking or less likely Post 858 which I havent put anything against but in retrospect is a horrible horrible post.
CDB's contributions Day 2. - Literally Nothing - 3

I may have been frustrated with him when I put that down

Total: - 4.5

Lurkerwagon 2.0 CDB should be lynched just for lurking...

(Truncated, this is me ranting at him, a bit hypocritically)

In the end, regardless of what people say a lurkervote I do not feel is a good lynchng vote, and with nothing else to go on in regards to him...

Overall: Null

10. Ythill

Im just going to highlight points here

A lot of the early negatives may have been playstyle based. I felt that Post 107 and Post 93 were good posts and felt it frustrating that only Ythill had mentioned it. It got worse after Ythill jumped bandwagons in Post 218. I don't get the pont of Post 280 Even after he semi-explains it. He loses points for the Mert wagon. He then gains a few and loses a few points 844 and 896. The process and the motivations for what he does on Page 43 is totally bewildering to me, I don't know why he needs to find this out beyond looking for a good wagon to sheep. I feel its scummy as hell. Post 1128 is inexplicable. Post 1707 was another random vote too close too deadline.

My summary is in there, I thought he was scum but as he as claimed and as far Im aware not been counterclaimed, Ill bump him up to null despite amounting to -21.

11. CES

Post 608 - Doesnt change opinion after Ectos doc claim - 2
Post 610 - Weak defence - 2
Post 761 - silly vote - 1
Post 1024 - Back once again with naff all - 2
Post 1311 - Another yos vote with no reasoning - 3

Total: - 10

Lurker. Only posts when needs to. Minimal content posts. Out of the little he has posted, I have liked much if anything.

Overall: Scum

12. Lord Gurgi

Post 91 Good Post + 1
No post number but Has been posting well thus far

before 1012[/b] + 3
Post 1012 - In regards to CTD on CDB I agree and really his UT points are spot on to. + 2
Post 1016 - But his next post is terrible - 2 (voting but doesnt want a lynch)
Post 1051 - Balls on yos...

think it meant to say bails on yos. This is about him refusing to get into an argument with him

- 2
Post 1173 - avoiding the yos confrontation is looking really bad now. - 3
Post 1178 - Brings up slushy snowballs!

before I mentioned it within thread

+ 2

Total = 1

Gurgi has noticed things that I wanted to bring up in my review. The major problem I have with him is the weird set of posts where he downright refuses to get into any argument at all with yos.

Overall: Townie.

[Porochaz]

Im going to look over the rest of the game since my last post. If I feel I should comment on anything else or if there is questions outstanding I will answer them now.

[Porochaz]

Prozac, is there any reason that you had to reread after reading the game for the first time? It seriously put a dent in your contributions. Also, why did it take you so long to do the reread in the first place?

I skimmed through the game the first time round and then I lurked a lot and realised that the only reason I was voting ythill was due to him being the forefront of the major events in the game and that I should possibly try to look at the game as a whole. I also felt it would help me get into the game more.

It took me so long to read, due to exams, work, leaving to go home at the end of term, some semblance of Christmas and new year and my grandpa getting progressively more ill.

[Porochaz]

Okay, lots of inconsistencies, a cop claim with a counter claim and my previous post on him.

vote Glork

Without the iffy claim CES would be a better vote. Ether's feelings towards Glork give me bad vibes however not nearly enough to make anything of it.

[Porochaz]

Post, will post in a few hours.

[Porochaz]

I'm up for a Porochaz lynch now. Looking back at his scum-hunting, it seems that he had made his decisions prior to actually using that point system (much like he accused DGB of doing). If you take away Ythill due to the claim, his top suspect CES had a -10 and Glork was at a -7. Gurgi and I were null reads (-4.5, -5) and DGB was town at a -1. I'm not sure where the line was drawn, but it looks like it was fitted to his suspect list.

Thanks for being the only person voting to really give a real reason against me. I voted Glork over CES purely because the claim I don't feel is believable and things change like the claim therefore I have to adhust my vote accordingly. You were both null reads at the time because I felt that the points didn't accurately sum up my feelings properly. I said this at the start of my first analysis post. The points were there as a guideline, the summary and the overall was what I actually felt. Also DGB was town because she had claimed a believable role.

I can't see a one shot cop being in a game with a full cop even with sanities. My knowledge of Patrick, whilst less than Ether's still makes me aware that he doesn't usually (to my recollection) do the more unusual normal roles and keeps to the basics. I am struggling to see why Ether has taken this to being 100% fact so easily.

To answer MBL's question, the reason you think its true, the gradual progression, is ringing false with me. It doesn't feel natural, like its all too planned. Along with the counter claim, it just seems totally wrong.

[Porochaz]

I can't see a one shot cop being in a game with a full cop even with sanities. My knowledge of Patrick, whilst less than Ether's still makes me aware that he doesn't usually (to my recollection) do the more unusual normal roles and keeps to the basics. I am struggling to see why Ether has taken this to being 100% fact so easily.

All of the buildup you've typed here would imply that it's

Crash

you're questioning, not Glork. Glork claimed a perfectly normal role. I'm not really outguessing Patrick here; I think it could go either way, but I had a town read on Glork from before and don't see Crash's claim as a valid counterclaim.

Elaborate on "planned."

Well not really, the whole cop-doc thing comes into play here as well. In that a one shot cop is a perfect way to fill the void where a cop causes problems. Also with a vig, a supersaint, a one shot cop, a full cop and a doc in this town its getting a little crowded, no? I see it as a perfectly valid counterclaim.

Planned as in, I view it from what I would do as a cop. Which is that I would leave MBL well alone, look at some other options. If Im asked then I say that I'm looking at other avenues or I don't find him particularly scummy anymore. I keep away from that person unless I am called on it. I don't make a series of posts each one making it look slightly better for the person in question. Its like the Barry Manilow sketch from Family Guy.

[Porochaz]

Porochaz just posted in Forum 62. I'm pretty sure he wasn't always set to invisible; I've seen him on the online list since this game started.

Yo, Porochaz. Claim or die.

Vanilla and regardless of alignment every time you post something like this, it makes me want to avoid this game like the plague. I don't always check this game when I come on.

[Porochaz]

And if I didnt put that there, it would be "WOW OMG SCUMZ"

[Porochaz]

Who's defending me? Besides, why are you so absolutely adamant that he's telling the truth, tell me how you would balance a game like this with all the power roles claimed?

[Porochaz]

Yes, Im wondering why you are doing all the defending for him. It doesn't really reflect well on either of you.

[Porochaz]

Who said she looked town?

[Porochaz]

On second thoughts, I don't want to give my full answer yet. Sorry--feel free to call me on this later.

The Night 2 logic was totally flawed and useless; it was based on roleblocker DGB stuff and can be found back here. I'm just lampshading that this is the second daybreak in a row that I've done this.

Porochaz, why am I scum?

Well, I could say the push on the two lurkers and the person Ive found most townie in this game or the fact that you were completely and utterly wrong about Glork and went so far as not to just disagree with the opinion but to strongly defend him. That first post of starks keeps coming back to haunt me as well.

Also as Im sure Ive said, if you keep track of my online times and whether Ive picked up my prod (which imo, should either be made knowledgeable to all and not just you or not at all) will make me actively not post.

[Porochaz]

Shanba, please dazzle me with your genius. Which of Porozac or Huck is more likely scum, and why? Bonus points if your answer invokes the words "Glork" "Glorked" or "Glrok".

Sidenote: I'm vaguely amused by the portmanteau of porochaz and prozac.

The thing is, they're both sufficiently close in scumminess that I'm finding it hard to make a distinction. Gun to my head, I'd pick Hackerhuck, I think. Both players have somehow managed to float mostly under the radar in a game where there've been a number of lurkerwagons, and that's particularly worrying in prozac's case because he's been one of the worst offenders - both him and his predecessor were low content. Beyond that? I dunno. His reread is solid-ish. I'm not thrilled with his inhim push, either, particularly the idea that the nurse fakeclaim should be an autolynch. Honestly, I see more townies who declaim than scum. In general town are far more brazen in doing whatever the hell they feel like - with the exception of a few players. But yeah.

Really, you see more people fakeclaim as town than scum? What possible explanation is there to do that? Its terrible play as it's lying to your fellow town (+ if by slim chance we had a nurse we would have outed her as well). It should be an autolynch not just because it's incredibly suspect as a claim in itself, a fakeclaim almost always hurts the town particularly if its just to save your own skin. (see DGB for an instance where it helped) (why am I having to explain this?)

[Porochaz]

Leaving you to your own devices also actively makes you not post. Make a List.

The information is available to anyone who asks. I'm just the only one who bothers, and then

I

make it available to all. See how that works?

Thats fair enough I guess. (first line)

Second line is not. But again, its something to bring up after the game not during.

[Porochaz]

Except I didnt say it in the first place, forget the again.

[Porochaz]

Never mind.

[Porochaz]

I see that, but then lurkerwagons fail.

[Porochaz]

Minor point but remember how Flameaxe was pushed onto that wagon at deadline? VCA are good and all, but considering day 1's wagon was plucked out of thin air and the ONLY reason BBM voted was to not have a no lynch at deadline, it kind of renders it useless.

[Porochaz]

Why am I scummy?

Well, I could say the push on the two lurkers.

Why leave the lurkers alone? Do they shit golden eggs?

If they did I might be in hospital with some questionable symptoms.

Im not saying leave the lurkers alone. What Im saying is pushing lurkers to lynch, just because, is wrong. Granted there has to be a crossover point where they bite the bullet and help or get lynched but I dont remember seeing that stage from Ether.

[Porochaz]

I meant to announce my v/la, wont be available till monday. Sorry.

[Porochaz]

K Im back, fairly sure I have some questions to answer. Will do so tonight.

[Porochaz]

Porochaz, what do you think of HackerHuck, CDB, CES, Gurgi and chamber?

H.H. - same opinion as my summary of him in my reread
CDB - Chronic Lurker, same as me, pretty much, except from my point of view, I think that Im being more accessable than him. Looking at the game more as a whole, he seems to have made a load of excuses
CES - I didnt like CES in my reread, I havent really noticed him since. Im going to look through his posts at a later date
Gurgi - Flying very much under the radar
Chamber - Not much of an opinion, need to iso him as well

[Porochaz]

H.H. - same opinion as my summary of him in my reread
CDB - Chronic Lurker, same as me, pretty much, except from my point of view, I think that Im being more accessable than him. Looking at the game more as a whole, he seems to have made a load of excuses
CES - I didnt like CES in my reread, I havent really noticed him since. Im going to look through his posts at a later date
Gurgi - Flying very much under the radar
Chamber - Not much of an opinion, need to iso him as well

You don't seem to think anyone is scum.

I think Ether's scum

[Porochaz]

Having said that, that is a particularly bad post by me. Which shows I haven't really gotten into the game. I would say CDB is getting increasingly scummy with the increasing frequency he posts stuff like 2546 with very little return. The two I need to iso are just that, expect a better opinion of them in due course. Gurgi has never really given me any cause for concern beyond the UtRness.

[Porochaz]

Didn't realise I was in prodding range. Im sorry to do this but at 3am, making a post, is not going to happen, it will at some point tomorrow though I promise.

[Porochaz]

Not particularly huge fan of HH lynch from the outset. Will read up on it.

[Porochaz]

vote no lynch

[Porochaz]

I dont see the point here, it's not that I dont get what she's getting at, I just see it as completely pointless. I guess she has to say something to make sure noone notices that the HH lynch is yet another tally in her fail collumn.

[Porochaz]

Ether due to failing to be right about anything and a toss up between CES and CDB, CDB for mainly the same reasons as me. (Except in my view worse) and CES for the lynch happiness but when I think back, what has he actually done this game?

[Porochaz]

I will post examples tomorrow but generally I feel Im more active as scum than town, I also play less aggressively when scum.

[Porochaz]

I hate self meta's by the way, once you explain your own meta, it can easily be faked but you know that already.

Anyway, town game, lurked a bit, I should point out, I was town right up until endgame as it was a cult game http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=14357
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=14753 - town invitational game where I lurked greatly
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=14234 - my only scum game since the move (as far as I can see) from what I remember I was more active and spent more time on posts.

[Porochaz]

Hi, kinda waiting for Ether to say something. If she doesn't by this evening I will try and get a post out later on.

[Porochaz]

Did she pick up her first prod?

[Porochaz]

Hmm yeah it definitely came after your vote count... weird.

[Porochaz]

Incog isnt in this game, Ether.

[Porochaz]

Im LA until Monday.

[Porochaz]

I can't but ask me what you want and I'll get back to you later on tonight/tomorrow morning depending on what drunkenness level you want.

[Porochaz]

What do you think about CDB?

What do you think about Gurgi?

You do realize that this notion that I'm scum is absolute bullshit, right?

Havent I stated my opinion on CDB before? I find him scummy, because I dont think he's even trying anymore. He's accepted the inevitable and is waiting for his lynch rather than try and change peoples minds...

Gurgi I feel is town. He hasn't given me any reason to think otherwise and as I have 3 people in this thread who I feel are scum-worthy.

I don't think the case on you is bullshit at all. You havent been correct about one single thing this game and it seems strongly that you are leading people down the garden path.

Lynch happy CES is the 3rd by the way

[Porochaz]

See I can see brazen play coming from Ether easily. She is experienced enough to pull it off and from what I know about Ether, Im fairly sure she can pull the confident persona off. I know from when she balanced one of my games that she prefers a scum win so I can see her easily taking a more brazen approach to it.

I see what you mean Zorb, I held off because I wanted to chat with Ether a bit more. Especially as she is my top suspect at the moment. At the very least I want her to answer MBL's case. However she can still answer either way.

vote CDB

[Porochaz]

Ether was but I see what you are saying and her actions makes no sense if scum, she's basically confirmed even if she has gotten absolutely everything wrong. That said, Im not sure I like the way you postponed the lynch, I'm wondering if you have a similar strategy to vollkan in regards to verboseness - could you link a scum game? I don't care if it's particularly old. With CDB gone, I guess that leaves CES in my list of three. I won't be voting until Ive read through you both and Gurgi, who does need to answer your questions.

[Porochaz]

Apologies, I have family down. As soon as they go I will answer.

[Porochaz]

It being strongly dependant on how much of my lab report I get done I will try and get back to this game tonight.

[Porochaz]

Sorry guys, didnt happen.

[Porochaz]

I was going to make a larger post than this, and I hopefully will but can anyone tell me in the meantime how much of an impact CES has had in this game?

[Porochaz]

I do, but Id prefer to make a proper post detailing why before I vote.

[Porochaz]

If your talking about my one liners I have an exam today that Im revising for.

[Porochaz]

Direct U-turn much? Post coming...

[Porochaz]

Ecto-Ythill argument is boring.

Unvote, vote: Untrod Tripod

I hate this post a lot, Im fairly sure it came up in the initial reread, not only stifling what was useful and the only decent line of questioning but it came with a baseless vote, which regardless of arguments is a bad vote. Its his third one of the game. His 6th post.

Granted you have your rvs but not one iota of content so far.

[Porochaz]

Hey Yosarian, take it from me: there's no reason to be voting for chamber currently. Try voting for Ectoplascum instead.

Post 12, and here is an example of CES trying to direct people's votes. Now tajo and Parama do this as well to use 2 examples but they are a lot more agressive about it and usually at least say they have a reason

No posts yet have content.

[Porochaz]

Mert, Glork, CES, Yos, DGB, why specifically are you voting Ecto?

The same reasons why I originally switched my vote to him, just on a broader scale. Yos2 and Ecto's recent crossvoting looks like distancing, too.

Fritz and CES, is the guy scum?

Yes.

Post 19 (18 is iso, Im including 0 as a post) and we are getting slightly more but he has lead the charge on yos with what reasoning? For something to me which doesnt make sense and because his suspicion of chamber was "suspiciously high" really?

[Porochaz]

You just have the wrong opinion. Mertlynch is the only viable course of action.

This was always wrong.

[Porochaz]

I'm sure most, if not all, of us had people we considered better wagons than Mert. That's how deadline compromise lynches work.

With no reasoning? No chance to claim? You are a better player than that. Also nice backtracking.

Post 71 (70) again with the baseless vote. Seems to be bandwagoning for the sake of it at this later stage in the game

Having had a look at the first 4 pages and my reread of him a while back


Post 608 - Doesnt change opinion after Ectos doc claim - 2
Post 610 - Weak defence - 2
Post 761 - silly vote - 1
Post 1024 - Back once again with naff all - 2
Post 1311 - Another yos vote with no reasoning - 3


My main concern is that all the time we have had people getting all big on lurking but CES here is active lurking. Badly. He doesn't really do much and this is what I mean about his impact in the game. Where has he really influenced anyone within this game?

[Porochaz]

Also Im too tired to go on.

[Porochaz]

Those two quotes were about Ectomancer, not Yos.

P.S. directing votes away from a townie strikes me as a good thing.

Which you knew before the reveal, correct?

[Porochaz]

CES has bugged me for ages, I feel the content he has given this game has rivalled that of CDB or myself albeit in a more active one liner way and from my skim reading recently there was an incident that I really disliked involving a post about Ether. Im also trying to get my head round the fact ether isn't scum but I really am struggling. It's one thing in a list of wrong things but its a big thing. Gurgi's disappearance isn't helping either. The fact I havent gone indepth in the last 5 or so pages isnt helping. The CES/Ether tag team/the Ether U-turn strikes me as terrible as well.

At this point Im taking you for town, the lack of vote along with lack of saying anything scummy makes you auto town, ces Im sure is scum. The other two, Im really struggling.

[Porochaz]

CES What's your case on me? I have found 1 word. Lurking. I will be here all day tomorrow and I want to know if thats it.

I then want ether to do the same, but not before.

[Porochaz]

Although you could answer this for me, ether, which may render the previous question useless... on a scale of 1 - 10 how much do you just not care anymore?

[Porochaz]

Oh and just to be a complete and utter dick, I see you in scumchat right now Ether...

[Porochaz]

Im not yet, Ill wait for ces to answer then you then I will decide.

[Porochaz]

Also you werent when I initially posted.

[Porochaz]

Cool, could you tell me how you eliminated everyone else. Also could you tell me why you hadnt said this before.

[Porochaz]

K, Ether's turn. Why the sudden 180?

[Porochaz]

This game proved that I had no time for this game anymore. My opinions on lurking is that =/= scummy. Initially it had no intent however it went from that to avoiding questions which implicated me badly, particularly MBL, then I got busy with exams and stuff again. As I have exams in May, its time for me to limit myself in what I do. I apologise again for the problems, I think I got better in the later game days. (at least I didnt get prodded more than once I dont think) but then I seem to be able to play better later on. I havent won a game in so long and I seem to be campaigning for better standard of play... I feel like a bit of a hypocrite. Sorry to Patrick especially, however I did love going after Ether near constantly. It was fun.

[Porochaz]

Porochaz, why am I scum?

Well, I could say the push on the two lurkers and the person Ive found most townie in this game or the fact that you were completely and utterly wrong about Glork and went so far as not to just disagree with the opinion but to strongly defend him.

That first post of starks keeps coming back to haunt me as well.

Porochaz, what post of stark's were you referring to here, and why did it bother you?

This was a huge scum slip that Im surprised you didn't push me for and would have by extension put Gurgi in the frame. I disappeared for a while when I saw this. I just didnt know how to answer it without condemning myself or Gurgi.

[Porochaz]

It's nice to see everyone again!

@Gurgi

: Alliance?

@Yos

Sorry I didn't get back to you in the thread. Everything's going real well, and it's good to hear from you again too! How's life?

Vote: Chamber

This was the post, I read Gurgi as Glork.

[Porochaz]

The thing about not getting lynched is you need to defend yourself. Which Prozac and CDB never even bothered to do.

Not until the last bit, you know where I kicked it up a gear and could have really used you in the last two days I was alive and you weren't there. We had more focus on us but you were a borderline lurker for most of the game as well.