Now then,
Obviously Bub Bidderskin's evil twin brother has disguised himself as Bub. Don't worry real Bub, we'll save you.6. Bob Bidderskin
They both seemed to recognize him as a n00b, so I can see what Pom and Darla were thinking about him when they wrote their posts. It doesn't answer why Pom didn't seem to want to generate more discussion about FF's words, or why Darla wants to make a confident vote next instead of a vote based on a vibe.Bub Bidderskins wrote:Jahudo, if you think that Final Fires is not scum, then what do you think of Pom and Darla?
@More Whisky: Do you mean he would be vote worthy if he made those posts later in the game, or that you are not ready to vote? If you think he's scummy I don't see why you aren't voting him.More Whisky wrote:If the game was a bit older you would have my vote for that.
Did you miss the part where he said he played mafia on a different forum that used different rules (ex: 24 hour days)?ender241 wrote:It depends what you mean by him being a noob, he said he's a noob to this forum so he knows how to play so think before and decide what you mean by noob.
Not whenever I want. I said I was waiting for her to react to Whisky's latest post as a reason I wouldn't push my case any further yet. And as far as I can tell its an original thought, so no hopping on other people's reasons either.brokenscraps wrote:Translation:Jahudo wrote:I might also support a DBE wagon after I see some more from her.Hmm, this DBE wagon sure is growing fast, maybe if I mention that I'd be willing to support it once I see more from here I'll be able to jump on it whenever I want, wouldn't that be great!
And I read Whisky as saying he "marked down Yos as scum" by his random vote. So he doesn't necessarily have another reason to find Yos scum because he never hinted at one. Maybe he does, maybe he doesn't.DarlaBlueEyes wrote:A. Are you claiming you set up the ender situation, or taking credit for his behavior?
B. Why have you marked Yos scum prior to your vote on him? Maybe I am misunderstandign your wording here, but if you had a case on him, why is this the first we're hearing of it? and what about him besides his vote on ender to you find scummy?
Why were you comparing ender and Darla like you have to choose between them? Darla isn't your #2 suspect is she?Final Fires wrote:If the lynch is coming down to him and Darla, I would definately prefer him to be lynched. Darla at least makes points and adds to the discussion - for that reason alone she's less suspicious than ender to me. DLG brings up a good point with her lack of commitment, and I am still very suspicious of her, but right now I feel like ender is the better choice overall.
You did see my part about Darla before I said that other stuff right? ---vbrokenscraps wrote:Jahudo & DLG get off for no new thoughts (still don't like Jahudo's comments on waiting for DBE).
DBE's case on Whisky in #77 doesn't make any sense to me. To me it either looks like an accidental misinterpretation of his words or an intentional misrepresentation of his words. But I won't step on the investigation because I want to see if Whisky made it clearer now or if he can make it clearer for her.
And about this:Jahudo wrote:Why did you hold off from revoting Final Fires when you found out he was not at L-1 and you could safely do so? You made three posts in that time when you could have been pressuring him with the vote or even talking about him without a vote. It makes me question why you voted him in the first place, if you weren't focused on the wagon.
So your "FoS" in post 111 is not strong enough to warrent a vote? Do you still have any suspicion left over from that? Regardless you should be able to find some reasons other people gave for voting Darla, and state in this thread whether you agree with them or not. And people should develop a read on her so we even know if there's a majority that support her lynch or not.ender241 wrote:Because i don't have a reason to vote Darla, i'm just saying if it comes to it i won't mind if it's a sacrifice needed to be took.
Actually he said hebobsnox wrote:how the heck does FF know my meta? I've played 2 games here and none with him.
Useless question in terms of learning more about a player's opinions. What is the purpose then?bobsnox wrote:Is Final Fires your scumbuddy?
Another question that sounds more like a statement of condemnation. Obviously you wouldn't expect players to answer "Because I'm scum", so why do you ask these types of questions? I want to know if you know the town reason for doing this.bobsnox wrote:are you not voting me because you know I'm not scum and you're waiting for a wagon on me to build so you can hop on it?
Possibly accurate. Voting without giving a reason in the post is not scummy by itself. Not being the first one to point out a suspicion is not scummy either. I don't think you are using your playstyle in an opportunistic way. But with your playstyle the potential is always there.bobsnox wrote:Scum always work themselves up over contribution and content.
I don't see sheeping from him, but his willingness to push the first three large wagons (FF, ender, Darla) is something to think about moving forward. Would he disagree with a wagon that's not himself, would he react to the progression of a wagon he's already on like a normal townie would? Can't say yet.DarlaBlueEyes wrote:So far my biggest suspect is Bobsnox, who on review of most of his posts/iso as been a total sheep and hostile when his actions are questioned. This screams scum to me and one that can easilly slip under the radar with the Fires/Ender blunders and me, apparently.
How is this scummy scum? You sound really confident about it, like you don't think there could be a town explanation to act this way about suspects. Is that why you didn't ask a question here?StrikerekirtS wrote:Wait so you're only voting until you get an answer? For someone who initially hadn't voted yet on either of her two scummy vibes but shes voting because Whiskey missed a question?
Lynch this scummy scum.
Why can't she throw out comments like this?Striker backwards wrote:Like who? You can't just throw out comments like this! Who do you feel could be scum on his wagon? Maybe you were gonna give more if not on your phone but who do you feel is scummy on that wagon?
Please answer this. And you've seen some more of Darla since you last talked about her actions as scummy. Do you still see that? If so, where.Jahudo wrote:@ Whisky: Can you address some of Darla's points on you?
1) What is your read on the other ender voters? You talked about how Yosarian interprets ender differently, but not how FF or myself interpret it different from you and if you have a problem with our votes too.
2) What about her scumhunting methods looks more like trying to "pin the scum tag" on someone rather than being honestly cautious? I don't see where you point to any specific comment and explain that's not how a townie would investigate.
Can you provide examples of this flinter? For the Whisky vote, I thought she was misunderstanding some things, and dropped the vote when she got clarification. So that wouldn't bother me, but maybe there are some examples I missed from her bobs case or elsewhere?flinter wrote:Darla's scumhunting mostly consist out of asking questions without using the answers she gets.
Darla went on V/LA recently, which can't be faulted, and she has made 24 posts, more than most of us. I also don't think she's been fluff posting either. So what is the accusation here?Whisky wrote:One thing that is going on in this town is that your better of not posting, I say that as this is what Darla is doing now(even if these reasons are very genuine) and its working!
Having replaced into my share of games, I find this believable. And scum would be more concerned than town about flip-flopping, or about replacing in as a large wagon. Suspecting Darla from the beginning would have been a self-preservation move. Its harder to see that in this situation.Llamarble wrote:My opinions are changing rapidly as I review the available information because I just joined and have only read through fully once. Calling me scum because I say my read isn't solid due to my not having read the whole thread is ridiculous.
I don't see this point. Where did Llarmable call Darla scummy or scum? I don't see anything other than a "maybe I'm wrong about Darla, i'll read some more" in post 277. He says he could "see her as scum" but I don't think that can be called a official suspicion by him.Bub Bidderskins wrote:Do you know why it is weak? Because it is birthed from desperate scum and built on a contradiction. You say that you don't like my case on DBE, then you say that you find Darla to be scummy. Then you vote for me and call me the scummiest player around. You think that Darla is scummy and yet you think that the main pusher of the Darla wagon [me] is scum. Your default stance on Darla is that she is town, and yet when you look back at her posts, you realize that she's been posting scummy. So you panic because she's your partner and you chainsaw me.
I don't support this case for the most part. Town don't normally explain towntells. Some people give a general "these people look town" and that's it. It shouldn't be any more specific or scum are given help on who to NK first. The lack of a vote or suspicion is enough to say "I don't find you suspicious for what you've done so far".llarmable wrote:Complete lack of towntells. I see nothing in his posting that looks difficult to believe from scum.
Tunneling / vote parking on Darla with a weak case.
The case he makes against Darla is that she was initially hesitant with voting and then starts moving her vote around. I see no reason for scum to be unwilling to have their vote on people, especially so far from lynchtime. This is totally inadequate to lynch somebody on, even D1. Those Darlactions read to me as townie not sure of reads due to lack of information so far, changing reads as more information became available.
So were you being sarcastic to bobsnox in post 285 or not?MoreWhisky wrote:I thought maybe darla and llamarble are scum buddies, but ive now gone off that idea, im not gona join the Bw on llamarble.
I've commented on some points but yes, I can go point by point for the record.FishytheFish wrote:@Jahudo: have you looked in detail at the cases of BB and DLG on Llama? What do you think of them?
A wagon you've read through? Can you honestly say you know why people are voting llarmable for things llarmble has said/done?MoreWhisky wrote:Its been said before but ender made a mess of his role, he wasnt scum he was new to this. Llmarble doent deserve this wagon.
Do you think his reasons are unjustified in his vote post? Or is it more about him settling on a target that he was defending before that?DLG wrote:Fishythefish is the player with a terribly unjustified vote on Llamarble at the end of Day 1. I cannot imagine a town motivation for selling all out to defend another player, then being willing to be part of potentially lynching that slot.
That is alot of people to have as scum/leaning scum and most of them were undeveloped reads.CryMeARiver wrote:Scum
Ender's Slot, now Llarmable
Darla
Bobsnox
Null
Albert's slot, now Flinter (leaning scum)
Pom's slot, now Fishy
Brokenscraps (has remarkably flown under my radar)
Nikanor (leaning scum)
MoreWhisky (leaning scum)
Overcome your read on ender?Nikanor wrote:Llarma is town because he thinks his opinion matters.
I've been rereading so far today, so the only suspicion I've given recently is CMAR.Llamarble wrote:@Jahudo: Who are your suspects and why? I find it hard to tell based on your ISO. Which is not a good sign. And you got on the Whisky wagon for the contradiction-logic, which looked like obvious sarcasm to me.This sounded weird to me. My reaction was "huh, obvious fakeclaim, lynchtime." Your reaction sounds vaguely like "Please claim something else so I don't have to lynch you now that I've learned you're a mafia traitor." Care to explain?Jahudo wrote:This sounds like a traitor role, except traitor is a scum role. If you are not claiming scum, Whisky, how is your role different and why shouldn't we lynch you at this point?MoreWhisky wrote:im joining the escaped prisoners tonight as a prisoner traitor.
bobsnox wrote:UNVOTE: Fishythefish
VOTE: Llamarble
Bobs switched his vote the very post before you switched. How did you miss the bolded part where he was unvoting Fishy and not Whisky? I find it hard to believe that you missed this.DarlaBlueEyes wrote:I mistook the votes right before mine as having been subtracted from Whiskey.
DarlaBlueEyes wrote:I will say while his play at first was very scummy he since has seemed to be very aggressive in his scum hunting which is a lot more helpful and townish than what others are doing. (IE: Whiskey)
Why the sudden turn around from Llamarble was townish to both Llamarble and Whisky are appealing lynches? How is a townish person appealing to lynch?DarlaBlueEyes wrote:I wanted a lynch and both Llama and Whiskey were appealing to me and yeah. I thought the bob and fish vote changes were coming off of whiksey because I didn't actually check.
I don’t think this is a reliable tell. A lot of people have called flips in this game, many about llamarble being as good as caught scum. It comes from confidence, not inside information.Yosarian2 wrote:it sounds like Llamarble already knows Darla is going to flip town.
You kinda have a point, at one point or another he did call everyone on his wagon scum except Final Fires (and bobs who he called town by the time bobs voted him).Yosarian2 wrote:Anyone who votes you is scum, huh?
Llamarble jumped to one conclusion with that theory. He didn't say why it was more likely than anything else. It looked like he chose the outcome to fit with his narrative actually. Without that evidence (ie: the difference between calling someone being wagoned town and preparing for their lynch) it does look suspicious coming from him, like when he called Whisky pretty bad in one post and a convenient scumtarget in the next. Man, I hadn't seen it that way before.Yosarian2 wrote:I don't think you have. Most of your attacks look like OMGUS to me. I don't see Bub as suspicious at all. I also think your "Yos and Bub are scum together and they're part of an elaborate plan to lynch Darla" theory is raving paranoia at best; it dosn't seem to be based on any actual evidence of anything in the game, it more seems like a wild theory you cobbled together based on nothing to allow you to attack the people who suspect you.
And most of the swings were against the most vocal people on his wagon, the ones pushing it harder. It’s how scum probably would operate in that situation, assuming those votes are there to stay while being nicer to the swing votes. That would possibly require exaggerating tells against the stronger voices while ignoring similar tells against the swing votes.Yosarian2 wrote: the posts don't look like a coherent attempt to scumhunt at all, more like a series of wild swings in a last ditch attempt to go after or discredit anyone and everyone who was attacking him.
True, you may be conflicted in thinking Whisky was suspicious and also a scumtarget if you are wrong, BUT you also based your theory of Yos and Bub setting up mislynches off Darla. Take our your uncertainty over Whisky's alignment, that you hadn't called bobsnox town by that point yet, and you are left with the burden of proof that your own lynch is a mislynch. It doesn't look like a solid argument from an outside perspective.Llamarble wrote:First off, I said Ender, Whisky, and Bobsnox looked like easy scumtargets IF TOWN. So that doesn't conflict with my then scumread on Whisky.
Wait, were you also someone considering multiple scum factions? Otherwise if you were not confident about all the variables (your Darla read was developing, Whisky didn't look obvtown) I don't know why you would find that situation most likely on that end of the theory. So it really has to be about Yos and Bub.Llamarble wrote:I described what the situation felt like to me (Yosscum prepping to target bobs/whisky after a darlatownflip). Sure there are other ways to read that situation, but that was an explanation which made the world make sense to me. It's really hard to prove that sort of interpretation is "more likely than anything else," so I stated it so other players could see it and decide if they felt the same way.
Did you think Whisky had more justification to be on the Darla wagon than Bub?Llamarble wrote:This "attacking the vocal voices more than the swing voters" stuff is garbage. Vocal wagonpushers said more things, so I ended up responding to / raging at them more.
Or is there more?bobsnox wrote:Bub is scummy because he intentionally took it upon himself to criticize my play as scummy/poor while simultaneously acknowledging that he thinks I'm town. And all this while we're on the same wagon, trying to get Darla lynched.
Or the Bub wagon with this:brokenscraps wrote:his reaction to Yos since has been mildly alerting.
Or back to the llama wagon with this:brokenscraps wrote:Bud's posts are still looking mighty dodgy
Or maybe a werewolf or Jahudo vote with this:brokenscraps wrote:As it is I'm uneasy about Llama being town
Or a bobsnox vote with this:brokenscraps wrote:werewolf has a horrible vote on Llamarble.
<snip>
Jahudo's vote seemed the worst
Or anyone else because he doesn't give town reads. Its really hard to know what he's thinking or where he's leaning. Out of everyone here I think he's left the most options open to him by not taking any firm stances, ie: not directly calling players scummy or townish most of the time (Fishy and DLG are the two exceptions). I see things like 'bad play' and 'horrible vote' that sounds like someone not able to make a stance. I don't trust that at this stage in the game, so I think he's scum.brokenscraps wrote:bobsnox also looks bad, he purposely posted little at the start of the game and what he did post was without much content, justifies it by claiming his tactic is to sit back and watch, this would be all well and good if sitting back at the start of the day wasn't so much more beneficial for scum than town, there are some other things that I'll look into when I have the patience.