NY129-Mafia on Werewolf Island! (Game Over)

[gorilla]

first post

vote: Shift

trust me on this one guys I got a good feeling

[gorilla]

I think someone is jealous

[gorilla]

yo gorrilla i see your on lol how are you.

hi sorry i didn't reply i had just woken up and was scanning the thread before i went off to class, didn't feel the need to comment at the time

VOTE: Nobody Special

Competing wagons GOGOGO

this is a post by scum that did not read the thread

unvote , vote: implosion

[gorilla]

I guess you could call c-worl over-eager (in reference to kr0b) but I don't really like his attitude with the "you'll be sorry when(if?) I flip town!" (#128) and I suppose the way he's playing could come from a town player but it isn't

good

town play so if he is town he needs to stop being friggin ridiculous with his posts

pine makes a pretty big emotional appeal in #133 which I don't like but the initial posts he got jumped on seem like dumbtown to me? like he legit just didn't 'get' what rayfrost was doing

think I favor voting C-Worl right now but blah blah blah fast wagons and I feel like there are definitely a lot of people slipping by without having to do anything but by this point that's becoming a tired and cliche sentiment

T-Bone you've been pooh-pooh'ing both wagons but you haven't been that constructive. singling out chronopie seems arbitrary at best

[gorilla]

pine if you post one more emoticon to show how sad/frustrated you are I'm going to vote for you

[gorilla]

I was somewhat serious with it and hoping to get a reply out of implosion before I moved it

[gorilla]

unvote

hate to show up with no content but I've fallen under a mountain of schoolwork

catching up on the most recent pages

I actually think C-Worl has an interesting assessment of tclawren on the last page, tcl's initial justification for his vote on C-World reads like a bad grade school essay. He initially says Pine is scummy for the same reasons as everyone else then decides it's actually a super town move. However, tcl unvoted Pine when Pine was still leading as the wagon, and not losing steam at all, contrary to what C-Worl points out. kind of seems like C-Worl is just looking for targets/trying to incriminate others instead of looking at things objectively

maybe they're both scum on opposing factions

Chronopie's latest post strikes me as scummy because he seems like he wants to get the day over with, I know it's day 1 and a big game and blah blah blah but that's no excuse to be lazy and want to rush things. Without content, there's never going to be anything to work with. I'm feeling a bit challenged

[gorilla]

also,

V/LA until April 1st

Noted

school first, maf second

[gorilla]

hello friends

have survived my school week and am now catching up on the thread

making this post in case anyone wants to say anything to me specifically, ask me questions or just lavish me with attention

[gorilla]

"scum vibes"? come on is that the best you have to offer

SnakePlissken saying he plays the same every game is laughable, and he basically admits he's not trying in his last post, when there's been so much going on and he basically has no comment on any of it. this far into day 1, not taking a stance on basically anything is scummy

vote: snake

like this vote more than c-worl who is at least trying even if he's basically lashing out at random

Null read on

gorilla

, though his vote here seems a bit random. (Reading posts in ISO so if it was made during the RVS, sorry).

hi I'm right here if you have things to say you can direct them at me

it was basically an RVS vote but essentially I thought implosion suggesting the concept of 'dueling wagons' there was stupid when the votes on C-Worl were all fairly serious and most of the NS votes weren't. he's made two wallposts since that I'm not sure about, he just comments on whatever then parks a drive-by vote at the end with little explanation. to me he is slightly scummy

[gorilla]

jindori I noticed you're not voting right now

any particular reason for that?

[gorilla]

Oh, okay, my bad, but it's still a long way away from a lynch and I think RF was suggesting people hold off on hammering, I don't think you voting now would make too big a difference.

[gorilla]

So I log on and see that I'm still alive, which always makes me feel better. And we've got competing wagons. I have 9 votes and Snake has 7 (I think) I haven't gone back and read yet but apparently Snake is scum bc of a response to me? Aight well fuck it. I've yet to see anything to suggest that anyone is scummier than tclawren so even if it might save me, I'm not gonna switch my vote until I'm given more evidence.

Because he made a dumb response to try to justify a bad vote and he's basically not keeping up, not offering opinions, not helping the town

it's not like i can write a massive wallpost about why he's scummy because there's not much to analyze, but what there is to analyze is pretty damn scummy if you actually think about it at all

[gorilla]

he was active at the time, Nero/Raudhr were still catching up with the thread. *shrug*

[gorilla]

C-Worl is at L-2, for the record. I'd rather lynch snake, tbh, but I'm not going to fight this lynch tooth and nail

[gorilla]

faking a daykill is freaking dirty and should be against the rules

what the hell happened these last few pages

how many scum teams are possible in a Normal game?

[gorilla]

unvote

vote: jindori

werewolf, third party, you know what, I don't care anymore he is claimed not town and i'm not going to let a player with a claimed non-town alignment live

had me fooled prior to this, oh well

[gorilla]

roles that change alignment aren't allowed in Normal games, at this point his claim just keeps growing more outlandish and my doubts about voting him are going away

[gorilla]

I just didn't think his posting had been scummy prior to this, you had a lot of people saying he was town, not gonna pull quotes, but I basically agreed with that assessment

the more he says now, though, the more of a sense i get that he's lying

there is no cult mechanic, this game wouldn't have passed review if that were the case

[gorilla]

honestly was a bit unsure what to think when he claimed werewolf, not gonna lie

but no that was pretty much the tipping point, obviously

http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Normal_Game

right under the red text

[gorilla]

Oh god I had a post typed up and you all just buried me with these posts and made me irrelevant

I think a lot of these speculative arguments about the setup are silly, also recall jindori was the one who first jumped on T-Bone for supposedly slipping and revealing the presence of multiple anti-town factions

not sure where to go with today's lynch in light of the flip, may need to re-check my assumptions

[gorilla]

Kise makes a really good point there, and in light of...well, everything that's just happened, I think it makes sense to look at things from a fresh perspective. I'm noticing that jindori hopped on C-Worl rather quickly when C-Worl started criticizing RayFrost. I think he was newbie enough that the simple explanation is likely here.

vote: RayFrost

[gorilla]

unvote

As a courtesy. I'm not wagoning a player while they're still catching up on the thread, especially when I first voted to see how rayfrost would respond. The way the votes are piling up seems opportunistic (I hate that term, but really, piling votes on a player who's not here to defend, what else can you call it?)

Also, people giving C-Worl town points for making a summary post are either stupid or scum. Making a post like that offers no real risk to the person making it (scum want to avoid risks) and doesn't actually help with finding mafia? If you find the information useful, fine, but saying it's an "omg sooper town" move is just flat-out wrong.

[gorilla]

Call it meta, but your lack of willingness to commit to a wagon, combined with your inability to pick up on things we've previously agreed are universal scumtells coming from C-Worl's defense makes me think something is off about you this game.

Also not in character for you is that you've posted very little content yourself. You know in poker a lot of players make the mistake of looking for their own tells, I hope that isn't what you're doing by criticizing C-Worl's summary post as a 'lack of contribution'.

For now,

FoS: gorilla

nah bro i'm town

i already said i thought it was possible that C-Worl is just Bad At Mafia (early VT claim) and i'd rather have gotten a scummy lurker who just hops on wagons with bad reasoning

i know you will probably say that is low hanging fruit but if i wanted an easy lynch i'd be one of the anonymous wagoners on C-Worl

remind me of the scumtells i'm missing here

i got off to a slow start this game so i haven't been posting up a storm but i'm tryin' to keep up and put some thought into my votes, you know?

my criticism of his summary post is information over analysis, not that his overall posting lacks content. you're pretty blatantly misconstruing what I was saying there. also, didn't you just say i was ignoring the scummy stuff he did?

i'd rather not lynch reckamonic or pine today especially since everyone on those wagons except for kise is damn scummy. re-checking the thread and i feel like i'm beating my head against a wall. snake is posting bad but probably is not wolfscum. i'd still be fine with him dying but i want to look at other players first.

reckamonic:

What about NS is obvtown? I re-read him and didn't see anything that stood out as such.

[gorilla]

great case bro

real thoroughly argued

going to take me a while to respond to your well-thought out, intelligent points

[gorilla]

oh i see i got upset by the use of what i consider a dirty tactic in a mafia game that was used to out a scum so that makes me his scumbuddy for believing something is against the spirit of the game, hrm yes

eldritch lord agreed with me about the nature of that tactic, making his vote fairly hypocritical

[gorilla]

congrats on being inept or scum, i guess, tclawren. leaning scum since if you actually read those posts in context instead of in ISO T-bone was the only attacking jindori in between those posts, and he already had his vote on him, so you're just BSing. there was predominant party line, i catch up with the thread, am confused, re-read and see scum coming up with an outlandish fakeclaim, and i vote him. you're trying to paint my disagreement with kise's choice of tactics as lolscumfrustration, when anyone with a semblance of ethics would bitch. But fact of the matter is, your iso #14-#17 looks like the exact same damn thing: whoa guyz wuts goin on i dunno wtf to make of this, then suddenly, oh he's scum let's lynch him. hypocritical.

in short, oh my god you suck

your pushing on kise is pretty ridiculous, you basically have no legitimate reasoning (but then you really haven't had legitimate reasoning for anything today) and the guy outed jindori. If you're trying to tell me he did a fake daykill gambit as scum, and his latests posts have been solidly town. you've been hopping votes pretty much arbitrarily all day, trying to find something that'll stick. I want to vote you, but snake is so much worse. But he's almost certainly not werewolf. Decisions, decisions...

[gorilla]

oh i see i got upset by the use of what i consider a dirty tactic in a mafia game that was used to out a scum so that makes me his scumbuddy for believing something is against the spirit of the game, hrm yes

eldritch lord agreed with me about the nature of that tactic, making his vote fairly hypocritical

It's the combination of the two posts, to be honest. But it's really meta more than anything, you've barely posted at all, when you usually have so much to say in a game of mafia. I'd like to see you post more, your playstyle this game is very atypical of what I'm used to seeing out of you. You have a tendency to post jokingly whenever you're scum, often addressing me directly. I'll read and post an analysis in ISO on you later tonight or tomorrow.

You've never played a forum game with me, and it's basically been ages since we've played anything together. Schoolwork and the slow pace of MS have kept me from posting as much. The case on me is BS, it's selectively picking out my posting when there were people who reacted in similar ways including both you and tclawren. also, you're basically changing your reasons here since i told you your original points were crap. save yourself some time and ISO someone flying below the radar.

you want words out of me? I got time now but the more I read the thread, the more confused I get. It's the first big game on a forum I've played as town, and it's fairly daunting.

c-worl had a horrible reaction to rayfrost's tunnel, yes, and I believe I'd said I would have voted him at one point early in the thread, but he started posting content and it was decent, not great, and i got the sense of frustrated town out of a premature VT claim. i think getting pissed off at a seemingly irrational tunnel should be taken as null, it's the tendency of a lot of people to get mad when they think they're being accused for ridiculous reasons, whether they're town or scum. overall he is not my favorite poster but i do not think he is the scummiest out there

ray/recka seemed fairly townish, thought kise had an interesting case but their response seems town and the random scumbags have barnacled that case really hard so i don't think they're scum

Snake is posting horribly and doesn't seem town, but jindori was so willing to vote him which makes me hesitate

powerrox has a scummy history, replaced a lurky slot only to lurk more and hit the obvious wagons.

tclaw has been contradictory and idiotic but to an extent i can get why someone might read what he did off of me complaining about kise's tactics. still leaning scum on him.

after a lot of thinking I want to get rid of snake because nothing he says is useful, connections be damned. I think as it stands right now it's too hard for me to draw connections off jindori and i see a lot of bad cases coming up because of it.

vote: snake

pre-edit: I know, Reckamonic. I think I got too caught up in trying to read off flipped scum and not enough on who's actually scummy

if kise is scum you can go ahead and lynch me because I am clearly completely incompetent if that is the case

[gorilla]

He wants snake to talk, not claim. He never used the word "claim", and thinking that makes no sense when Snake is at L-5. Snake's been varyingly useless/scummy, and he's saying by voting him he's hoping to put pressure on him to post content or else get lynched.

Anyway, to comment on the people voting me, tcl is scummy imo and i'm not sure about EL, but they at least are trying to provide reasons even if i (obviously) disagree with them and think their reasons are bad. Honestly, I'd suspect EL more if he weren't questioning me because of meta etc.

[gorilla]

Oh god I'm sorry for not posting, I forgot the last time I'd posted and the thread had stagnated but I've been reading. Still fine with lynching snake, pine has scummy interactions with jindori so I'd be willing to switch to him, everyone is getting replaced so much that the thread is going to keep stalling out, which is going to completely screw town if that happens.

[gorilla]

lmao that hammer. lmao.

[gorilla]

hi

conspiracy's post is a dumb post but not convincingly a scum post

speculating on wtf Kise meant before kise has posted is dumb

am a bit lost, but pine, tclawren, and powerrux are all pretty scummy imo

anyway have work to do, later

[gorilla]

Lynch everyone who is not town aligned

that should be the most discussion the SK gets today

imp that post of mine was objectively pretty weak, if you agree with my reads, cool, but otherwise it just looks like you are trying to buddy me

VOTE: RaudhrGarm

reads & opinions can change, yes, but you still haven't offered any reasons for why your read changed and saying you've wanted him lynched since "the jin affair" completely ignores that you wrote him off as town at one point. to me it really looks like you're squirming right now. you need to justify your reads changing or i'm going to assume you're BSing and get you lynched

[gorilla]

hmm yeah, an entire scumteam is about to quickhammer on day 2 of a large normal, that is what is going to happen

i am swayed by the sincerity of your words and the logic of your argument

[gorilla]

They're both scummy, unless there is a good reason tclawren needs to die sooner, I'm fine with voting Raud because his defense is particularly weak. telling us to get off before the other scum hammer him is just attempting to inspire fear + appeal to emotions, he's not attempting to be helpful and point anyone out

[gorilla]

sure okay

name the scum for me then, raud

[gorilla]

yeah I'd rather not try to play the "pet serial killer" game since i've rarely seen that go well, people not voting raud should be voting raud

[gorilla]

yeah getting rid of a nightkill is suck a detriment to town

get hosed

someone hammer

[gorilla]

vote: Charlie

[gorilla]

A moment of silence for the dead...

what the hell is this post. what the hell is it.

I voted without a reason just to see reactions. Interesting that Charlie did not question me about this. He promised content when he finished reading the thread after replacing nearly 3 weeks ago. It took him 10days to read up to page 11. No further updates since then. Have you caught up with reading the thread yet? (if not, why the hell did you bother replacing into this game?) I'd expect you'd have time while the thread was closed. I want to see your reads, you replaced a scummy player and haven't done anything which means I can't really suffer you to live if you continue this way. I want to see something from you.

I need to do a re-read. EL's flip especially will probably prove enlightening.

You did it. You did the thing.

[gorilla]

UNVOTE: Charlie

fast wagon. no like. unvoting since I do not want to end D3 via turbolynching and I can't be guaranteed to keep watch on the thread

[gorilla]

^agree

VOTE: Powerrox93

keeps making lazy knee-jerk votes with poor justification. he's keeping up with the thread but has never actually scumhunted.

I keep trying to deconstruct the snake wagon from day 1 and giving myself a headache over it. tclaw is scummiest player who was on it, I guess.

[gorilla]

...god, that is the worst fucking possible timing. I was agreeing w/ mrzepher saying it is ironic that pine is calling out another player for being "consistently scummy", obviously

[gorilla]

I just accidentally closed a post I'd spent some time writing and mulling over and I'm upset by this

mastin trying to connect me to jindori + pine is bunk, if you really think a scum player, even a newbscum player is going to put their entire team in a townlist then :/ is all I have to say in response. It's just as possible you'll see no real connections between jindori and his teammates when all is said and done.

also, think you write off bristep too quickly off of too little.
---
Don't want to lynch any of the following people: mrzepher, implosion, reckamonic, kise, conspiracy.

UNVOTE:

still think powerrox is scummy but my vote isn't doing any good there. charlie needs to die at some point, I didn't like the speed with which he got wagoned but he clearly is not playing the game at all. That said, Chronopie voting tclawren "for information" today while doing nothing else is bad, he in general seems to be avoiding giving any reasoning. Looking at the D1 snake lynch wagon I guess that means C-worl, T-Bone, lowell (now mastin) and nacho are players I ought to be looking at. Lowell barely posted enough to get a read on, will have to see how the T-bone/mastin exchange plays out. Nacho has also not posted much, don't know about him. C-worl is annoying but probably town.

Meh.

VOTE: Charlie

Would move to wagon chronopie if that gets support, though anyone not on my town list is negotiable.

[gorilla]

I want to see how the Mastin thing plays out as well.
T-Bone isn't exactly on my town list but he's not a priority.

Wasn't there some suspicion on kr0b day one? I'm just checking to see what's going on in the thread right now so I don't have time to check. Is there any established meta on kr0b?
I also never had any sort of scum read on Gorilla. Maybe Day 1, but Day 1 was just madness so......
Nacho is irritating me with his lack of justifying his vote on me. He was a null read before but if he doesn't say anything soon that could change...
Tclawren hasn't said anything either, and he's at L-3....
I think there are people seeing Mastin's walls as an opportunity to lurk, WHICH I DON'T THINK IT IS.
I'm semi-guilty of this, but I'm trying to contribute wherever I feel that I can. There's not much discussion really...

Well, let's start some. I noticed looking at your ISO you had an early scumread on chronopie and haven't mentioned him in a while. What is your opinion on him now?

[gorilla]

Pine, I'm not lynching the claimed neighbor today. I did notice that EL obviously distrusted him day 2, but I'd rather let him live for now.

Zepher, neighbors can potentially be scum, it's the aspect of the role that makes them different from masons.

jindori listed kr0b as mafia. Not really feeling him as a potential partner.

Let's turn the heat back up on Chronopie. I am thinking right now I would rather move the pressure there than on charlie, because as annoyed as I am with how he's (not) playing, re-reading kr0b i actually don't see him as particularly scummy where Chronopie is showing a strong lack of scumhunting, especially on recent days. In particular in his last post he votes TC "for information" but doesn't really say what information he expects from the flip, or even give any reason to suspect him as scum. He has literally never mentioned tclawren before that post. Actually, hell with it, I want Chronopie lynched today for that. That's some straight-up opportunism.

UNVOTE: Charlie

VOTE: Chronopie

[gorilla]

Yes and Yes, T-Bone. Don't know if there is even a neighborizer in this setup, though. Why does it matter?

[gorilla]

and point out a contradiction I just spotted in Gorilla's posts. (See if you can find it, first.)

Unvoting Powerrox bc no one else is but then voting Chronopie when no one else is?

I unvoted him because I didn't think I had a strong case. I do think I have a good point against Chronopie, and realized other players, including mrzepher, who I have a town read on, have expressed suspicion of him but it hasn't stuck around, so I figured I ought to try to start a wagon there. Yes, I changed my mind. I don't care how it makes me look. I think Chronopie is scum, I'm going to vote him.

[gorilla]

jindori listed kr0b as mafia. Not really feeling him as a potential partner.

A-hem. "We can't use anything Jindori says when it implicates me as scum, but we CAN use anything Jindori says when it implicates someone ELSE as scum!" That's essentially what Gorilla just said to me. HUGE contradiction, and EXTREMELY scummy.

Nah actually I was implicating kr0b as not scummy on the basis of that. Theory being that newbie scum does not try to get their partners lynched. Same time, they aren't necessarily going to be listing their teammates as town because they want to avoid having connections between them and their scumbuddies. Not the same thing.

[gorilla]

I decided I don't like the charlie wagon and am trying to wagon chronopie instead, mastin makes long posts

that's about it

He didn't randomly pick us. he picked the biggest threats to his faction.

lolwat

[gorilla]

oh

tclawren claims he was neighbors with Eldritch Lord, there has been no information revealed as to whether or not there were additional neighbors. That's about all there is to that, some people still think he's scum, I think wagoning him right now is a bad idea

[gorilla]

I decided I don't like the charlie wagon and am trying to wagon chronopie instead

How long have you suspected Chrono publicly?

Not very long. Kind of wasn't feeling him as scum day 1 and I have honestly been terribly lax in my play for a while, though I am trying to fix that. I re-read posters for a few hours, he stuck out to me with recent comments and I figured, hey this guy had some suspicion on him day 1, where did it go? Not going to lie and say I've been calling for his death since forever ago, but I feel like I actually have pretty decent reason to suspect him.

[gorilla]

honestly, Pine, I've responded to mastin's arguments somewhat I just don't feel the need to sidetrack discussion because one player thinks I'm scum, I would rather focus on lynching scum (Chronopie). Your response here is strange to say the least, I have to say "mastin is pushing on us because he is scum and we are dangerous to him" is a really scummy-sounding response, but I want to know what you mean about "the only person I know to be confirmed Town" here.

I really just don't know about mastin/T-Bone. I don't. Right now my reads aren't particularly strong. I'm not going to just immediately OMGUS mastin, though, because for now I have to assume he has town motivation in his attacks and he's just mistaken about me. Time will tell if that's the case or not.

[gorilla]

I was going to ask mastin to explain why he thinks T-Bone is scum, but I guess that's coming eventually. His loss if he can't get his argument out there before deadline. Right now I do not understand it.

Chronopie's defense is not great. Doesn't really address any of the points anyone has made against him, trying to inspire fear over mislynching, and apparently everyone voting him is scum. I want answers - what's the reason behind your scum reads, why did you vote tclawren when he was a popular wagon despite having never addressed him in the thread prior to this, etc.

[gorilla]

Really? We're backing down off that?

23: It bothers me how nonchalant he seems with this post. "Ideally he's scum, but a town flip is cool too."
*Again, I work via connections. TC's been fairly active, and we can get almost as much from connections made between scum/who the scum attack, as from genuine townie suspicions, whom may have picked up things that others miss, as no one has quite the same perspectives.

That still doesn't justify why you voted him after never addressing him prior, nor did you really state why you thought lynching him was a good idea. It was a sheepy, bandwagon vote with poor justification. Also, you list zepher as a possible scum on your wagon but then say his case seems sincere. So do you or do you not think he's scum?

[gorilla]

Gorilla keeps starting wagons then backing off when he gets followers, so he's trying to avoid being the first voter of someone not on his team. Bet that.

cite where i did this other than with charlie, where i didn't like the speed of it and explained myself when i backed down. I'm still sitting on chronopie and am a little puzzled as to where that wagon went. His defense wasn't good, it was just large and that was enough to throw people off the trail. still think he's scum trying to say just enough to fly under the radar without really ever sticking his neck out

i want to hop my vote onto pine for the emo self-vote thing so bad though

[gorilla]

if you really are town, Pine, it probably won't, because it just gives scum an incentive to hop on, and the one thing chronopie is right about is that every mislynch is costly at this stage in a multiscum game. if you're town, then quit trying to be a martyr. if you're scum i'm going to make sure you burn. answer me this: how much experience do you have playing mafia?

[gorilla]

That wagon was terrible, but it looks like the wolves have already taken care of one order of business for us.

vote: T-Bone

Let's get another.

Also, powerrox looks like obvscum from his vote on that wagon yesterday, I recommend we lynch him after T-Bone.

[gorilla]

actually you are wrong and terrible

but town

regrettably

[gorilla]

guess what? he was wrong about pine. it happens. pine was shady for a lot of the game and that's why he pushed on him. I thought pretty strongly he was town yesterday by his reaction but he got lynched because we had scumbags pushing it through (nacho, t-bone, powerrox, ?chronopie?). mastin stayed off the lynch because he wanted to get t-vone lynched, he didn't just push it through and promise to get to t-bone the next day.

you are a derp. T-Bone's reaction to mastin and subsequent push to lynch pine is pure scum.

[gorilla]

^Still have you (EditBWOP: This was meant for Gorilla, but applies to Zepher as well ) as quite the wolf suspect, but hey, you're scumhunting the other faction at the very LEAST.

Powerrox isn't scum, though Chrono might be. I'll need to review the wagons for a moment to make sure.

The latest posts here's a mess, but I think I'm gonna VOTE: Pine now

explain how a town player makes this post. go.

[gorilla]

ah yes, everyone who has ever expressed suspicion toward you is scum, classic

[gorilla]

wait

lmao is this scum really fakeclaiming already

i didn't even bother to read his entire post, my bad

I didn't target nacho last night, it's highly likely he just made those names up to generate a series of mislynches, but I'll wait to hear from mastin and implosion. most likely they'll all deny it and then we'll have a scumbag lynched.

also, how about this:

14. Nobody Special

, [/color]

Town Voyeur

,

Choked to Death Night 1!

He's claiming watcher with a flipped voyeur in the game.

http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Voyeur

The Voyeur is an informative role that can target a player at night and learn what was done to them that night (but not who did it).

That's essentially a weaker variantion of watcher, and he's expecting us to believe both are in this game. Nope, he's scum.

[gorilla]

oh whatever. You're busted as soon as mastin and implosion get in here and call your bluff.

btw kise didn't confirm your roleblock, thim saying he was roleblocked was a lie, VTs don't know when they've been roleblocked.

[gorilla]

I don't know if he's trying to save his skin or what. He might just be panicking at this point. It's not too early to bait a mislynch, with 13 alive, 2 kills every night, and 2-3 scum left on each side, a mislynch today is likely going to bring us to a kingmaker scenario which would absolutely blow. I do know he'd have no reason to watch Nacho, who was a fairly scummy player (not sure why wolves killed him(hurrdurr u killed him why dont u know)). If both mastin and implosion actually targeted nacho last night then I'll eat my keyboard, but it's simply too damn unbelievable for that many players to have targeted a dead scumbag.

[gorilla]

I did not target him; you are a liar and a scum. This will be proven soon. zzz

(why would scum kill someone to affirm mastin's reads? that's just absurd)

[gorilla]

w/e, try to affirm or deny his reads, that's useless nitpicking and hardly a mis-rep. regardless it's still a ridiculously stupid justification. Who gives a crap about mastin's reads? He's just one player, but you freaked the hell out when he mentioned you as scum. You're basing everything you you say now off of him. Seriously, why would you watch a player because someone else has a scum-read on them? HOW DOES THAT MAKE SENSE. if nacho were town, there's no way the scum would shoot him to incriminate mastin, they'd just use him as the next mislynch. shooting him and getting a townflip would practically clear mastin because scum aren't going to kill someone they want to get lynched. as scum I'd have to be absolutely stupid to kill nacho. You are a lying liar who lies and your reasoning is completely bogus. No town-aligned player would choose to watch a perpetual lurker slot last night.

w/e, done arguing with confirmed scum, going to wait until someone who actually matters posts

[gorilla]

i bet now he tries to argue that we're both scum

w/e now we can wrap today up easy

[gorilla]

I think he was possibly attempting bait people into claiming, but I can't explain it otherwise. Sometimes scum make dumb claims. This is one of those times.

anyway, hi imp. You caught up on the thread? Any reads right now?

[gorilla]

he's claiming JOAT, presumably. Irrelevant since he is a lying liar who lies. 2/3 of his claimed visits confirm this. please vote him.

[gorilla]

Eh I don't really disagree with anything implosion is saying there - Reckamonic no longer have the towncred built up by RF from day 1, and tclawren is by no means clear - EL was a werewolf kill and clearly suspected tclaw before he was killed. jindori flipping as "west side werewolf goon" while nacho is just plain mafia suggests to me that there is some asymmetry in the setup which makes a scum neighbor believable. EL wasn't making a lot of town-lists, I think his death strongly suggests something was off. I'd say he's worth re-investigating tomorrow, he's still on my scumlist right now. I'd personally prefer to get the mafia out of the game first then just wolfhunt, but any scum lynch is good at this point. I don't particularly see implosion as scum, what doesn't read well about the post?


i thought pgo was non-normal but could be allowed in a game as one of the unique roles allowed by the rules. Frankly, when I first saw RF's claim I thought it was a gambit. However, that doesn't rule it out as a scum gambit. Right now I'd say they're a suspect, but they wouldn't be top of my list. people have tenuous connections between the slot and jindori, but also between the slot and nacho? are they mafia or wolf?

Right now, I feel confident to say that the following people aren't mafia: me, implosion, mastin, mrzepher, chronopie, c-worl, and tclawren. That means we ought to look closely at conspiracy, charlie, reckamonic, singersinger, and powerrox. Perhaps some ISOs are in order?

[gorilla]

lawl

keep telling yourself that

I just feel like we have decent info to work off here because nacho was mafia and T-bone is gonna flip mafia, might as well post the analysis

i mean, set your suspicion of me aside for a moment and tell me who else you think is scum

[gorilla]

because T-bone is actually scum and needs to die today

mastin can try to lynch me tomorrow if i'm still alive, but I'm town and my intention is to not get lynched so

[gorilla]

not really? you're doing the whole confirmation bias thing on me like you did with pine but i'm not really worried about it

there is like 0 reason for me to kill nacho as wolfscum last night

w/e, arguing with you now about this is terribly pointless, I'm going to re-read to find the scum, I suggest you do the same if you're town

[gorilla]

lying, attempting to bargain, etc

tell me, what motivation does implosion have to lie in this scenario? is he scum too?

[gorilla]

It doesn't matter if his result is accurate for your or not, mastin. he's scum, he's caught, one part of what he says being true doesn't mean he isn't lying about anything everything else. there's no plausible reason that implosion and I would both be scum and have visited nacho. Claiming here is just helpful to the scum.

[gorilla]

It's not really hard to infer what mastin is suggesting. It's probably better off dropping it.

p-edit: I haven't actually read mastin's posts and I might not read them, he can deal with it

Defending myself against mastin is getting tiresome and boorish especially since he's getting to a level of useless rhetoric that nearly matches T-Bone. If I'm still alive tomorrow I'll try to prove that I'm town, but I'm probably going to die overnight so it won't matter. So here I'm going to give reads to try to spin this into something productive while we wait for scum to get hammered:

mastin: probtown but way off the mark in his wolf reads. chance of being wolfscum because of the nacho kill but that's about it.

implosion: pretty sure this guy's town. not much more to say about him.

singersinger: hasn't done much. possibly the last mafioso, looking back on Shift's posts they paint the slot in a bad light now. worth looking into.

mrzepher: is active now so I like him by default over half the players in this thread. Overall I think he's town because he's been making pretty sensible posts, nacho kill gives him an outside chance of being wolfscum but that's it.

t-bone: scum, caught, etc.

charlie: afk, useless, lurker, etc. probably town, unfortunately. There's a chance he's mafia and T-Bone was trying to bus him yesterday (kr0b parroting T-Bone day 1 looks fairly scummy now), but I don't know if that's likely.

conspiracy - seemed town early on because he looked to be genuinely scumhunting. Hasn't done much to make me notice him. Right now I'd say he's a town read but not a strong one.

chronopie - still a slight scum read, haven't seen any remarkable posts from him and he made a bad vote on tclawren. however, he's definitely not mafia based on interaction with T-Bone and if tclawren is wolfscum then I'd say he's probtown.

reckamonic - I like RayFrost's D1, I really do, but looking back on it he was pretty clearly tunneled on town, the PGO claim is suspect, and reckamonic haven't done any scumhunting whatsoever. definitely a scum read right now. but not the top scumread.

tclawren - hasn't posted today. He's still very much possible wolfscum based on the EL kill and sort of seemed to push opportunistically on other players. moderate scum read on him.

powerrox93 - The scummiest player to never get wagoned. Read his ISO. Try to find the posts that are coming from a town perspective. (You can't.) He's hopped pretty much any wagon with the weakest justification. Ctrl+F for pine, find his pine vote, then look at how he only ever mentions Pine 3 times prior. If this guy isn't scum, then I'm an Anime Princess.

c-worl - VI. No matter how angry you are at him, you probably shouldn't lynch this guy.

mod: please prod tclawren

[gorilla]

and since I just asked for a player to be prodded, I'd appreciate it if

no one votes T-Bone until everyone has had time to discuss.

T-Bone will self hammer if he gets put at L-1, I'm sure of it. I don't want the day ending until the town's ready for it to end.

[gorilla]

I'll show you respect if you catch a wolf, but so far you haven't (but then, neither has anyone else living). If C-Worl ends up being a wolf I'll gladly kowtow to you but his interaction with jindori make me think he's one of the least likely players to be a wolf. Just an annoying VT, same as pine was.

I mean, even tclawren named two mafia:

Town Neighbor with EL.

The people that are most likely scum in my opinion are:

gorilla

T-Bone

Nachomamma8

Chronopie

MrZepher

Doesn't make him town since no one on that list has flipped werewolf. Between him and chronopie...I dunno.

I just want to make sure everyone has said their piece before we hammer the scum. Not just tclawren, but everyone currently alive. If everyone's like "zzz let's move on" then I'm not going to object to you voting him.

[gorilla]

ebwop: that was directed at reckamonic, I'm a big sillyhead.

This is directed at mastin: the fact that nacho was eaten last night and not you should probably tell you that you're off in your wolf reads. I'm hardly being selective, it's just easier for me to narrow down the mafia right now to a pool of 3-4 suspects, while potential werewolves is a larger field, that's just the way I read things right now.

[gorilla]

not to pull the overdramatic T-Bone thing here but let's engage in a hypothetical here: I die tonight and flip town. How do your reads change?

[gorilla]

so now there's, what, 5 werewolves in this game and 3 of us visited nacho? lmfao

[gorilla]

No. there is literally no way he's town. that pine vote was beyond terrible. he has done nothing town-like, ever. he's lurky but still manages to jump in to hit the big wagons when they show up. your scumdar is malfunctioning.

[gorilla]

you were already voting him, nice try though

at this point I don't mind if the hammer is dropped anyway - don't feel like waiting for tclawren to get prodded and then show up to pick up on his prod.

P

robably

g

oing to die

o

vernight.
If I do, players I'd say that you ought to look at are powerrox, singersinger, and chronopie.

[gorilla]

He's caught scum and everything he says is a lie/WIFOM, lol. I wouldn't trust his word on implosion at all - though I'm biased because I know he's lying about me.

[gorilla]

Oh, them flipping east side mafia makes things much simpler. I was confused by that.

I'm thinking we should mass claim today. Any objections?

[gorilla]

care to explain the objection? and also the vote?

[gorilla]

Okay, Just wasn't sure if with so few alive that it might be worth getting claims out there. No harm in asking, right?

As for me being a wolf, no. I mean, if you want to trust the word of claimed scum, then

I am outting gorilla and implosion as Werewolves.

implosion has been shot in the face Night 4. He was a

Vanilla Townie

.

implosion has been shot in the face Night 4. He was a

Vanilla Townie

.

implosion has been shot in the face Night 4. He was a

Vanilla Townie

.

implosion has been shot in the face Night 4. He was a

Vanilla Townie

.

implosion has been shot in the face Night 4. He was a

Vanilla Townie

.

but if you really still think I'm scum, do you want

me

to claim? I was probably planning on doing it anyway, just wanted to wait in case people decided to mass claim.

[gorilla]

Conspiracy, T-Bone was really stupid scum and you're going off the word of claimed scum whose objective is to mislead and hurt the town. It's really stupid to assume that I'm scum in light of everything else. If he really did track me, the only person he tracked me to was himself. But whatever, I was signalling this enough yesterday and the mafia probably have it figured out:

I'm the cop.

That's why every other word out of my mouth yesterday was about who was/wasn't mafia, etc. Also, why I was sure T-Bone was scum after not being sure the day before. Full set of investigations:

N1: MrZepher - not guilty
N2: implosion - not guilty
N3: T-Bone - guilty
N4: Reckamonic - no result

My intention was to test the PGO claim, to see if they were legit or not, which would be shown if there were 3 deaths. Reckless and selfish but I figured removing doubt on me by dying and confirming a pgo would help the town, and if they were lying I might as well take the risk and find out. That's why I kept saying I was probably going to die.

[gorilla]

Yeah, what? I can point back to how I've acted in accordance with my investigations. It would make no sense for me to claim cop as a werewolf, it just guarantees I get killed by the mafia (or roleblocked, since apparently there is one out there). There's a flipped Seer in the setup, I'm the cop. That simple. You're either so settled in on confirmation bias that you refuse to accept that I'm confirmed town or you're scum.

[gorilla]

You are this close to pushing me over the god damn edge, mastin. If you're not counter claiming then unvote.

p-edit: mastin might have eaten nacho.

[gorilla]

I am telling nothing but the plain unvarnished truth here and mastin is trying to get me lynched in spite of it

VOTE: mastin2

Here's the thing: If mastin is really going to try to get me lynched today,

you cannot lynch him tomorrow because then the town will very likely be forced into a kingmaker scenario because of it

seriously, ask me anything about how I've played and I'll reply honestly. I'm not scum. mastin has pushed beyond the edge of reason and now I'm going to tunnel the fuck out of him today

[gorilla]

Don't want to lynch any of the following people: mrzepher, implosion, reckamonic, kise, conspiracy.

I posted this day 2. I did the list in reverse alphabetical order but the key part is that I stuck my investigations at the front. my ISO #43. I normally hate breadcrumbing but I was continually nervous at that point that I might lose my investigations.

p-edit: mastin is bullshitting scum who can't come up with reasons to get me lynched after T-Bone failed. His entire strategy now is argumentum ad nauseam with no reasoning. none.

@powerrox, yes, I only get guilty results on mafia

[gorilla]

Here's my reasoning for the first two investigations, T-Bone and Reckamonic should be obvious as to why:

MrZepher: I really had no clue where to begin for my N1 investigation. There were a lot of players, a lot of people I might suspect. I picked MrZepher at semi-random because he hadn't posted much, was on the snake wagon, and nacho calling him scum stuck in my mind. implosion I investigated because I know him, he made one post I thought was odd, and I wanted to know if I could trust him or not. Again I just really wasn't too sure who to check.

p-edit: sorry, had meant to post that earlier, thread is moving fast right now, only just got to typing my justifications.

[gorilla]

N1: MrZepher - not guilty
N2: implosion - not guilty
N3: T-Bone - guilty
N4: Reckamonic - no result

First off, these results.
Zepher has been who I've been calling Gorilla's buddy ever since Pine was revealed to not be.
Second result--isn't it convenient that Implosion--who he buddied with yesterday due to the whole T-Bone thing--is also a result? Isn't it convenient that he buddied up to Zepher, another result? Isn't it convenient he had a guilty on T-Bone the same day T-Bone was pushing him as scum?

And isn't it convenient that he claims to have been roleblocked when investigating the PGO?

When the only word we have that there IS a Roleblocker comes from a dead-VT Kise?

No, I don't think we have a roleblocker in this setup.

And this is just the tip of the iceberg.

RIGHT SO I CLAIM AN INNOCENT ON MY TEAMMATE AS WOLFSCUM, THAT IS A STRATEGY I WOULD USE AS SCUM BECAUSE UHHH UHHH DUHHH

WHY THE HELL WOULD I MAKE UP A CLAIM OF BEING ROLEBLOCKED WHILE INVESTIGATING THE PGO

I CAN'T CLAIM ANYTHING ELSE BECAUSE I'D BE DEAD IF I WEREN'T BLOCKED

I GOT A GUILTY ON SCUM YESTERDAY SO I VOTED THEM RIGHT OUT OF THE GATE

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... start=1975

DO YOU THINK I JUST VOTED T-BONE ARBITRARILY? NO, I HAD A GUILTY

RAGE

[gorilla]

t-bone is watching this thread right now and probably laughing his head off

[gorilla]

i'm not scum god damn it

give me one good reason to expect there being a seer in the setup and not a cop, mastin, oh wait you can't

I fully admit my reason to investigate imlosion was weak. That doesn't make it false. I was short on leads and thought he might have tried to buddy me day 2. I'm not faking this rage, I try to avoid raging at games whenever possible but mastin is so full of shit

[gorilla]

again, no reasoning, just repeatedly calling me scum because you suppoedly know i'm scum

there's no reasoning at the core of it

you just say i'm scum so everything I do is a scum move

it's fucking ludicrous

[gorilla]

@mastin: except there would be a counter-claim if I was scum claiming cop and then I'd be screwed. What reason would I have to believe a lack of symmetry as scum? There is none. What good would trying to out the cop do as wolfscum? none. Your arguments all proceed from the line of reasoning that I am scum, so you look for reasons as to why I'd claim cop here as scum. You're not analyzing the situation objectively to decide whether it makes sense or not - you simply want to lynch me. A town player here would stop, give pause, weigh the options. You're not doing that. Any sane town player would take a moment to doubt things. Furthermore, you have already assumed I won't be counter-claimed despite not everyone having posted in the thread yet - you assume my legitimacy even while you call me scum.

I have to go nw but I'm back later

[gorilla]

ha ha ha ha ha i fucking knew it, mastin is scum and he ate nacho but was being coy about it. He knew nacho would be able to read him, that's why he killed him even though nacho was scummy/useless. He tried to avoid CCing me because he wanted to be able to get me lynched then slip away with it.

Yes, powerrox. I did. As I explained, I figured there was a heavy amount of suspicion on me, and a heavy amount on Reckamonic. I had figured that by investigating them, I'd either confirm them as a liar or die and confirm them as PGO, and I valued my life less than trying to help town's chances.

[gorilla]

So, I reviewed the evidence on Chronopie last night, and concluded that he is, in fact, not scum.

Reviewed the evidence. Not Scum. Yeah.

Why Chronopie?

Simple--Chrono's reads matched my own. He was unlikely to be lynched ever since T-Bone attacked him hard, he was unlikely to be NK'd, and he obviously was competent since he was the only one other than me who called both Nacho AND T-Bone to be scum together.

You investigated the player who called Nacho and T-Bone as scum, and was targeted for a lynch by T-Bone from day 1 onward. You investigated a player who had virtually 0 chance of being mafia scum. You're a fucking liar.

[gorilla]

I'm trying to show how you're scum, mastin, but in the end I'm not very desperate at all. Even if I get lynched, town still has a chance to win this.

This is why I said I hate breadcrumbs: scum can do them too, as you so aptly demonstrate.

Here's the scoop: mastin is a werewolf, I'm 95% on his teammate but I won't say just yet because I want to see how they vote today. I'm honestly not sure of the last mafia. mastin might even be right about singersinger, who knows. Regardless of this, if you lynch me today, don't lynch mastin tomorrow, that just creates kingmaker. Lynch for mafia, if you miss, the mafia have to cross-kill mastin anyway. If you get mafia, then you can get mastin the next day and everything will be roses and stuff.

[gorilla]

Furthermore, you have already assumed I won't be counter-claimed

A-hem.

Scumclaim.

Right here and there, with this line.

Want more?

Well, then, compare to this quote just before that which states confidence in the opposite.

@mastin: except there would be a counter-claim if I was scum claiming cop and then I'd be screwed.

you assume my legitimacy even while you call me scum.

And this is more proof of a scumclaim.

Read his words, and tell me, with a completely straight face, that Gorilla isn't faking it. Tell me, with complete and total honesty, "I buy Gorilla's claim *any number more than 80%*." I dare you to. Heck, you shouldn't be buying the claim more than 50%. I, for one, buy it -100%. As in, there is not a chance, absolutely NO scenario, where Gorilla's an actual cop.

This is garbage, btw. Yes, I was confident there wouldn't be a counter-claim because I'm the cop and I didn't think mastin wanted to lynch me THAT badly, and I expected he would've counter-claimed right away.

[gorilla]

I thought of replying to mastin's wall but then I realized that's his game and that's what he wants. Not going to pollute the thread. I've been perfectly honest with my actions, that should be clear enough. Tell me, what's worse cop play? investigating the suspicious claimed PGO or investigating chronopie,

who had no chance of being mafia

?

Look, folks, just do me a favor. pull up jindori's ISO. Ctrl+F for Lowell. Then vote mastin.

[gorilla]

I don't know how to fakeclaim because I am actually the cop

saying chronopie could have been mafia is bullshit, it would have required T-Bone to be bussing from his first serious vote

[gorilla]

p-edit: newbie scum ignore their scumbuddies, they don't buddy them, this is mafia 101

He knew nacho would be able to read him, that's why he killed him even though nacho was scummy/useless.

I had made it clear by then that I'd have killed people who could read me well--like Nacho--yes. And that's why the wolves likely did it: to FRAME me. Notice how they also killed C-worl, who was Prime Mislynch Bait for multiple days in a row, yet was attacking me. They wanted to frame me, get me lynched. But I'm not that stupid. IF I were scum, I'd have killed C-worl the night BEFORE lylo IF he was still tunneling on me. Because before then, he'd have been a single useless voice against me, gaining no support. Last night wasn't the night before lylo.

ADDITIONALLY, look how hard I was drilling it in that Nacho was scum! From the moment I replaced in, pretty much, I was trying to get Nacho lynched. Why would I kill him if I wanted to lynch him?!? It'd make no sense for me as scum.

Why would I kill C-worl when it'd implicate me? ESPECIALLY since he's been at risk of being lynched every day?

In other words, no wolf kill makes sense from me.

From Gorilla, however, the kills make perfect sense.

Hello would you like some cheese with your wine?

I know I said I was going to ignore the wallposting but this is just too good to pass up

as scum, what's a more powerful tool: killing people who want to lynch townies or leaving them alive so they vote townies with you? It's the latter, obviously. I'm not stupid, most people aren't going to analyze nightkills. Saying someone else killed them to "frame" you is ridiculous. C-Worl had been targeted since day 1 but it was clear by day 4 he wasn't getting lynched so I think you had plenty of reason to kill him. You're saying I intended to frame you from night 3 onward when I wasn't sure about you day 3 , that my whole master plan was to get you lynched before I had any way of knowing you'd claim cop. If I were actually scum I would have just killed you and been done with it.

also, mastin, you've never claimed a night 1 result, might want to try to make one up real quick

[gorilla]

No there really isn't a chance of Chronopie being mafia, I don't care about bussing theory, they weren't bussing

I investigated people I thought might be suspicious, whih I fully believe is the right play

in a large game

. There's too many potential suspects to work via PoE, too many deaths per night as well to be able to collect innocents best strategy as cop is to investigate scum. In a smaller game, clearing players works. Not in this game.

second time scum tries to get me lynched this game with a fakeclaim this game, I feel so loved

[gorilla]

i don't even want to read all that

lol won't give results because he has none to fake

lol "I wouldn't kill the guys who are suspicious of me, that doesn't make sense!"

how the hell was i intending to frame you when I never, until today, went after you aggressively? makes no sense at all

[gorilla]

I'm claiming my legit, honest results. You're trying to argue I must be scum because I didn't play cop according to your strategy, that's straight-up moronic

he's criticizing my play which I have been completely honest and straightforward about to spin it into an irrelevant side argument

my reasons are legitimate and completely consistent with what I believe and that's all there is to it

[gorilla]

they're not suspicious at all fuck off

am cop, investigated people I'm not sure about who I didn't think were likely to die

that isn't suspicious at all you're just saying it is because you are scum

[gorilla]

Jeez. Stop it.
So it is
7:1:1 tonight.
Two kills (no cross):
5:1:1
Mastin, if you are competent enough, you should target Reck tonight.
We wait for the night to end until Reckamonic posts, saying something about his claim.

Vote: gorilla

@mod

, just to be sure: Can mafia PRs send in both their night actions and the night kill?

summarize for me briefly why you believe i'm scum

mastin's wallposting is not townposting. I've been totally honest because I'm town. You seem to be biased against me, you linked me as scum with Pine 2 days ago, but he flipped town and you're still voting me. I'm not trying to use your past mis-read against you, I'm just legitimately wanting to know your reasons here because I truly believe everything I've done was with town motivations in mind.

[gorilla]

I'm going to stop fighting mastin because it's pointless and fills the thread with garbage, but I'm going to fight against myself getting lynched all the fucking way because I'm town and I intend to convince you and everyone else of that fact. Don't be so god damn stubborn, I'm trying to be reasonable.

[gorilla]

what the fuck is wrong with you

I ask you to explain things and you give me that

I'm appealing to you to listen to me and discuss things

like good lord are you even trying to play this game

[gorilla]

spell it out for me because you're throwing it away right now and it wouldn't kill you to be polite

I want to read in your own words why you're doing this

not mastin's words

[gorilla]

WHY

[gorilla]

I've been trying to explain everything I've said, I've been sincere in my scumhunting, mastin has continuously been disingenuous. You aren't being reasonable here.

[gorilla]

@ mod again, please read this:

@mod

, just to be sure: Can mafia PRs send in both their night actions and the night kill?

Gorilla, do I really have to waste my time to explain to you why?
It will waste my time so much...

yes because I'm trying to fight this every step of the way

i still believe you are capable of doing the right thing

but i need you to listen

i need you to give me a god damn chance

[gorilla]

You know, the whole claim wasn't necessary.

After Gorilla went "IMMA SUICIDE ON RECKAMONIC AS COP!" it should have become obvious he was bullshitting =_=

Vote: Gorilla

Charlie, get out of your tunnel <3

I'd be dead so mastinscum couldn't mislynch me today

you'd be confirmed town

what is the problem

additionally

WHY WOULD I MAKE UP A REPORT LIKE THAT AS SCUM

[gorilla]

reckamonic, me getting nightkilled would have allowed town to focus on other targets instead of mislynching me like you're gunning for here

[gorilla]

yes, the results would be that I'd be dead and there would be 3 deaths so everyone knows you're a PGO and stop trying to make stupid connections between you and jindori (LIKE THEY ARE TRYING TO DO WITH ME)

I mean, humor me

if I were scum I could claim I investigated anyone, anyone in the whole wide game

why would I lie and say I tried to investigate the claimed PGO when I could just as easily fake a report on anyone else

how does that help me

[gorilla]

I pre-announced my intent to investigate reckamonic repeatedly at the end of yesterday. I was certain I'd die and be free of being a lynch target, or that if I didn't die, I'd have them exposed as a liar. It makes perfect sense to me.

[gorilla]

explaining yourself is useful

right now neither you nor reckamonic can give a single salient reason why you're voting me

it's like there's this fucking mental disconnect where you're like "welp gorillascum" and you can't reconcile that with not being able to give a decent explanation for it and so you're just sniping at me

[gorilla]

I got all up in T-Bone's grill yesterday about having a ridiculous report

You think I'd come out here today and fakeclaim something crazy? fakeclaim a role I knew would be counter claimed? it's the truth and it's the only claim I got and you need to step back and realize that

[gorilla]

Thank you for taking your time, Reckamonic.

I'm assuming there is 1 mafia left. My guilty investigation was T-Bone and he got lynched. implosion had no suspicion on him and zepher wasn't being FOSed as mafia anyway. I felt that me dying was no big loss and I left behind a list of reads where mentioned them favorably. I did this seveal other times as well. Even if you disagree with my reasoning and think it was poor play, you need to realize it does not make me scum. You still haven't answered why you think I would claim such a result as scum.

Last night, Gorilla the werewolf watcher decided to watch someone. Who we'll never know, because the roleblocker (town)being a bit silly, he thought blocking the outed scum PR instead of the outed potential goon was a smart move.
Meanwhile, Mafia (presumably singer) went "Oh crap, I shall kill the werewolf watcher to avoid me being outed the same way my buddy T-Bone outed them!"
What she didn't know is that the outed potential goon wasn't just an outed potential goon, he was a redirector/bus driver.
Poor little mafia (presumably singer)

redirecting roles are disallowed in normal games. T-Bone claimed implosion was the werewolf watcher, not me. There obviously isn't a rolecop, which is why implosion was shot last night. If he was a werewolf kill you could possibly have tried to implicate me as trying to clear myself, but he wasn't. If you're lynching me on the word of flipped scum you're failing big time.

[gorilla]

I'm prett confident it's not 4-4-1, Reckamonic. That's due to jindori claiming he had less than 4 buddies and there being 5 scum in the game right now doesn't make sense. Regardless, if I get lynched, 4-2-1 tomorrow. You have to lynch for mafia and leave mastin and his scumbuddy alive for a hope of a town win.

[gorilla]

oh, I messed up that URL. my bad.

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... 3#p3047783

looking at my list of reads, mastin is probably right about singersinger being the last mafia, no one else makes sense

I wonder if he'll vote her when he's confirmed scum

[gorilla]

mafia might have thought implosion was actually scum? I literally don't know, it's a strange kill to me. They went and disproved their scumbuddy, so they probably aren't paying much attention or don't care.

speaking of me asking for a mass claim I was doing that because I was hoping I'd be uncced and therefore clear, I thought today was going to be all roses

if you lynch mastin tomorrow it goes 4-1-1, and assuming lack of crosskills here which will probably happen because the scum have things figured out, it goes 2-1-1 which even if you're a PGO I see no way out of

[gorilla]

they kill the other townie and i'm pretty sure you get endgamed from there, ask the mod.

I will flip town, I believe I have explained myself on the matter. I understand that you think my actions were bad play, I ask you to consider what the value of claiming such an action as scum would be. Do you want me to point out how I was leading into investigating you?

[gorilla]

what the hell? What did I do?

I'm not trying to get town poins so much as I'm trying to get scum lynched and save my own ass in the process. I'm reasoning with you guys because I need to convince you of the truth - not mastin.

If T-Bone had an actual guilty on me, don't you think he could have just claimed that? He'd be rolling in the towncred from there.

[gorilla]

No, he just claimed that stuff assuming you guys would be insane enough to listen to the results of flipped scum

and it's working, apparently

he had a legit guilty and he claimed three, ensuring there was no chance he would be believed?

No, he probably tracked me to himself and tried to incriminate me because hey, free mislynch

or something

but he didn't have a guilty on me

literally eating out of the scum's hands by lynching me

[gorilla]

also if I was roleblocked as scum why were there 2 kills? T-Bone said I did the kill on nacho, assumption would be that I'd be killing again, yes?

[gorilla]

again, he shouldn't be more credible. I've explained myself, mastin has been all braggadocio and bullshit. I have an unusual investigation for night 4 I wouldn't claim as scum. He claims to have investigated a player who was highly unlikely to be mafia and is withholding a result for no reason. You two aren't bothering to read, apparently. Do I need to show you who I was crumbing investigating the PGO for most of day 4? Do I need to give you a case on why mastin is scum? There's plenty of reasons to believe he's scum, if you've actually been reading the thread at this point. You are being stubborn and can't really justify what you're doing because it's a bad decision.

[gorilla]

And what would even out a roleblocker, but not being the same PR?

I seriously hope Gorilla isn't the watcher and flips something entirely different...

you'll get your wish

10. gorilla,

Town Cop

, Put to Death Day 5!

[gorilla]

last mafia? Don't know, think singer is a likely pick at this point. powerrox is mastin's scumbuddy, though. like 99%.

I am being useful, I am trying to convince two very stubborn and foolish players that I am town, but they are being rude and not giving me the time of day. If you actually stopped to reason here and think about this, you might realize you are coming to the wrong conclusion but you are voting without thinking. mastin is scum and I'll do whatever it takes to prove it.

[gorilla]

I have an unusual investigation for night 4 I wouldn't claim as scum.

WIFOM

That's WIFOM? How about mastin's "I would never kill the people who suspect me as scum"? Isn't that WIFOM? Look at the more likely answers here - scum want to be seen as being credible. As scum I would not claim something incredible, not even to make this argument. It damages my chances of being believed greatly. mastin claims he would not kill people suspicious of them because that would draw suspicion to him, but on the contrary, the loudest opposition to him has now been silenced and people are siding with him readily. These are the simplest possible explanations here, and they are the truth.

[gorilla]

So as I read it:

Gorilla claims Cop.
Mastin cc's Cop.
spamposting ensues.

--

Probability say that we started the game with no more than 6 scum (+SK)

-Jindori ww
-T-Bone mafia, Nacho mafia

7 - 2 - 1

--


If scum were to cc a real cop, who then gets lynched, they get killed the next day. Basic Logic.

Given the probable numbers, cc'ing a cop now would be suicide, possibly factional suicide.

Therefore Mastin is HIGHLY unlikely to be scum.

Far more likely to be scum, in any given claim/cc scenario, is the first to claim. Anyone disagree?

VOTE: Gorilla

Chronopie, I explained it. mastin wants to force town to a kingmaker scenario. 4-2-1, then 2-1-1. Your logic is even worse than that of conspiracy and reckamonic.

[gorilla]

how about making a case?

I'll make a case for mastinscum, but I need some time. I know you're like dead set on me being scum but unvote and I'll prove myself to you. While I'm at it, I'll prove his scumbuddy, too. I'll take a shot at the mafia, too, but it's much harder for me to guess them right now (It's always easiest to find the scum when they're bearing down hard on you).

conspiracy, thank you for giving me a chance. If I have to meet mastin on his own terms and write an essay, I'll do it. Like I said, just give me a little time.

Anyone else: ask me anything, I'll answer it later. This will be my last reply before I bring out my cases for the last remaining scum. I have been completely straightforward this game, have never done anything scum-motivated. Even if you think I'm 100% mafia, please hold off on voting, I don't want scum to jump on my lynch before I get a chance to plead my case.

[gorilla]

My assumption is that you can get endgamed. You seem to assume the opposite. That's all there is to it.

[gorilla]

You assume tomorrow will be 4-2-1.
If you're town, that is completely implausible.

Why is it implausible? Are you saying last mafia doesn't avoid killing mastin? If so, I guess I don't feel that bad about getting lynched but I have the sinking feeling they won't. If you're confident mafia shoot mastin when I flip town then that's fine.

sorry for posting more, I just want to clear this up