NY129-Mafia on Werewolf Island! (Game Over)

[RaudhrGarm]

Hi, I am replacing [Moonstruck].
I'll catch up on the thread shortly and give my thoughts (though they may not come as soon).

[RaudhrGarm]

Ugh...I'm getting a headache from trying to catch up. So much bickering. Also, jin's style makes it hard to actually think about the content of his posts as they're spread out over several posts or all jumbled up in one. Messy. I don't think C-Worl is scum if I'm honest, but I am getting a scum-vibe off kr0b. (Page 13 at the moment)

[RaudhrGarm]

UNVOTE: C-Worl
As I said, I do not think he is scum at the moment. To be honest, I didn't get much aside from a headache reading through the thread, so I'll be mainly looking at posts from here-on-out.

My main observation is that there's a load of lurkers.

[RaudhrGarm]

I don't really see anything wrong with holding off voting once you've left the RVS. It is day one and you want to get an idea of people's style, keep it going for as long as possible. Not end the day quickly with a kill that will most likely hurt town rather than scum. Sure, Days 2, 3, etc when you've got an idea of who is scum or not, you should be voting and arguing your corner.

But Day 1? I wouldn't call abstaining suspicious.

[RaudhrGarm]

jindori

: First this:

i am thinking of jumping on the pine ban wagon but it strikes me as odd how fast the pine ban wagon built up votes so fast seems like some team work was involved maybe from the other scum.

Then a mere five minutes later this:

unvote c worl vote pine

why doesn't the bold butten work all the time it fraustrates me.

It looks like he saw a quickly forming bandwagon and made the compulsory "this is scum" post, before recognising possible team-mates on the wagon. Another

suspicious read.

Snake:

Hard to get a read on him, he's only made 6 posts. That said his vote on C-Worl is ridiculous. Slightly

scummy

reading at the moment.

tclawren:

I've got a

town

read off tclaw here, but as it's early, it could be wrong.

kr0b:

I'd vote for him just to see if he is scum or not. If so, this post pretty much clears up the case on C-Worl and Pine.
This post as well is suspicious as he criticises Pie for hopping on a wagon and not justifying his jump when he has done similarly...

I'd say scum.

[RaudhrGarm]

Null read on

gorilla

, though his vote here seems a bit random. (Reading posts in ISO so if it was made during the RVS, sorry)
Town read on

Lucresia.

I'm just going through random players posts, see if anything pops out at me. Nothing major at the moment, I reckon most of the scum are playing it smart and either lurking or trying to blend into the bandwagons.

[RaudhrGarm]

Mother's Day tomorrow so I won't be on.

[RaudhrGarm]

VOTE: Jindori
His win condition may not be to kill the town, but does that mean he isn't a threat to us? Nope. If these west/east-side werewolves have the ability to kill someone at night, that makes them an automatic threat to the town. How do they know that they're hitting their target? They don't, and we could end up losing town power roles very quickly if we let these guys live.

[RaudhrGarm]

Pine is coming across really anti-town for me. Giving your sympathies to scum? Defending confirmed scum?

FoS

: Pine

[RaudhrGarm]

Too many posts in too short a time...

But considering how all Pine has done is take posts out of context in an effort to create the sense that someone is scum, I'm willing to throw in my vote now.
VOTE: Pine

[RaudhrGarm]

Plus more than 9000 town points for C-Worl after that post. Pretty much summarises a lot of what has happened.

[RaudhrGarm]

My brain still hurts...

[RaudhrGarm]

Oh yeah, on second thoughts (i.e. re-reading the shitstorm that occured earlier) I've come to the conclusion that Pine is misguided town. UNVOTE: Pine

Sorry, a bit busy. I will aim to get on later, but I do think we need to draw the big lurkers out.

[RaudhrGarm]

I'm curious, Reck, do you have multiple personality disorder or something? Or is that just your posting style?

Also, picking 6 names at random isn't going to help you when you consider that you will have to deal with suspicion because of the player you replaced. FoS for just deciding to name 6 people and claim they're

all

anti-town because of a ratio.

FoS:

Reckamonic

Also, if anybody doesn't understand the number of town points I gave to C-Worl for his post in which he trawled through the shit that was jin's reveal:
1- It's a meme.
2- Why would scum bother wasting time summarising events and not trying to get a wagon going?
3- @Reck, several people have pointed out that kr0b is scummy, including myself.

VOTE: Snake
He's lurking ridiculously. Sure, he claims that his internet was down, before which he was away, and now he come back and justs Reck because RF defended jin (I know I voted Pine, but it did seem suspicous after the immediate flip). Also, his posts have been very foolish, first trying to lynch C-Worl because of the clan, now wanting Reck lynched because RF dropped out. I'm not really getting any reads off of him, just anti-town. He isn't helping us scum hunt, just turning up with the odd post to avoid a prod.

[RaudhrGarm]

I replaced Moonstruck and would like to think that I've tried to find more scum than he did.

[RaudhrGarm]

I'm going to go through Kise's posts again. I think I may have mixed up some of his posts with Kr0bs. But I agree that if a wagon forms on whoever replaces Kr0b, Reck or mayve Kise, I'll change. 'tis been a long day, and we'll definitely have stuff to go on for tomorrow once we get an idea of who is who.

[RaudhrGarm]

I thought that I made a post...bloody internet connection.

Anyhoo, reading through Kise's posts in ISO, I didn't get any large scum reads from it. I'm keeping my vote on Snake for now.

[RaudhrGarm]

Is it really necessary to post in "hydra" or whatever? It is slightly confusing if you're going to go using more than 2 personas, and I don't see the need for town to hide behind something.

[RaudhrGarm]

Hmmm...we have less than a week to get a lynch or the scum have a free night.
/obvious

[RaudhrGarm]

ConSpiracy intrigues me...Mostly null read, but at the same time...

There's something about him. Am keeping an eye on him to see how his further posts are styled.

[RaudhrGarm]

I've gotta

V/LA

until Monday again people.

Just replace out if you're going to be on V/LA the whole game.

[RaudhrGarm]

I hate when people pick out little things and call them scumtells.

[RaudhrGarm]

Snake is at L-4 then.

[RaudhrGarm]

And because Eldritch unvoted, we're still at L-5. I think we're best just getting this phase over and done with so that our cop(s) can get a decent idea of who is who rather than have us continue this mess of a day.

[RaudhrGarm]

Are jesters in normal games like this one?

[RaudhrGarm]

So....
We just chillin'?

[RaudhrGarm]

*Raises hand*

Not the best thing when you

just

about managed to convince a few of us that you were misled town with the jin case.

[RaudhrGarm]

*Yawn*

I'm not interested in splintering the vote any further. This phase has gone on too far, and instead of just saying I'm drowning, how about backing it up.

[RaudhrGarm]

So, Snake's at L-2.
Anyone on another wagon feel like hopping to get rid of Mr. Anti-Town sooner rather than later?

If Snake flips scum, which would mean his partner is real pissed at his behaviour at the moment, then I'd say we should reconsider Reck as a possible attempt at bussing.

[RaudhrGarm]

I also find it ironic that Pine finds his vote on tclawren useless, and decides to move to an equally pointless "wagon".

[RaudhrGarm]

So we essentially lost two cops and a doc?

Great. :/

[RaudhrGarm]

Seer seems to be a cop, while a Voyeur has the ability to see what was done to a particular useful. Both would have been extremely useful in finding scum.

[RaudhrGarm]

Alright, so VOTE: Kise

This is an interesting lie and rather than try to explain it, he's trying to get another lynch going. The only thing I'll say is that I'm surprised he didn't go after Reck in his first post.

[RaudhrGarm]

Actually a whole tonne of Kise's posts appear contradictory in ISO. First he says that he's alright with Jin if he doesn't have to kill town, and then posts the link condemning Jin when he points out there's no such thing as a pro-town Goon.

[RaudhrGarm]

Really? I "sheeped" onto wagons? How come I didn't hammer C-Worl then, or move to a larger wagon when Snake seemed weak. Think a bit better about who you're accusing in the future.
As for helping the town, I found that a bit hard to do when most of the discussion had gone on while I slept and I didn't feel too much like getting into the loads of personal arguments that popped up over day 1.
Most of my thoughts on people that posted were said, and I have a feeling that if I had repeated what was said then, you or Pine would now be accusing me of being scum because of that. So a lose-lose for me in that regard.

I'm also curious in whether our lurkers will be a bit more active today.

I also want to see Eldritch explain why he thinks Kise is the most town.

[RaudhrGarm]

C-Worl: I still think that he's town who both scum teams saw as an easy target to get lynched.

If you're looking for a role-claim, you're not going to get it. I'm pro-town, that is all you need to know for now. However, the main reason I didn't do too much scum-hunting was that I had exams the past two weeks and couldn't really devote much time into reading a mess of a day 1. The whole thing is a horrible mess, with my suspicions being that the lurkers have at least one or two scum amongst them. Also one of the reasons I pushed for the Snake lynch towards the end, so that we could just get rid of a ridiculously anti-town player who refused to sub out despite being hugely inactive and so that we could start a new day and see who said what.

I expect that I'll be more active over the next two weeks due to my Easter holidays. If the majority think that I'm not scum-hunting by the end of Day 3, feel free to lynch me.

Any other concerns before I head off to bed?

Pre-edit: I'd forgotten about Reck. Ugh, it'll a pain getting through the day with him. A shame that Kise was probably bluffing about being able to kill. We'd know which was which by now. I think I need to reread some posts to get an idea of who's who. Ugh...William Martin Murphy's still on my mind.

[RaudhrGarm]

UNVOTE: Kise

I just played through a scenario in my head that seems likely. Said scenario would result in Kise certainly being pro-town.

[RaudhrGarm]

Obvious would be that he actually is Vig and was role-blocked by scum because they foresaw it being pushed by some members of the town. Which would mean that they could kill two birds with one stone (free lynch and removal of a serious threat).

[RaudhrGarm]

Fair enough. Oh, and was anybody else intrigued by Nero Cain's decision to laugh at Eldritch's hammer of Snake? Seemed a little out of place.

[RaudhrGarm]

Is the Pine wagon back on the table then?

[RaudhrGarm]

@Reck: I've wanted Pine lynched since the jin affair, but decided that Snake was a slightly better lynch than Pine after a while. However, with no better choice, I think I will

VOTE: Pine

[RaudhrGarm]

I dislike the whole Kise/Reck affair. It is clearly a trap set by scum. I can easily see both being town but them expecting us to lynch both because one flips town w/e.

[RaudhrGarm]

Not really. You clearly went through ISO to read that, so would you please tell everybody what happened exactly after that which means there is no contradiction?

Oh yes, I voted Snake, as I said. Pine could be misguided town, but he is becoming more and more anti-town, borderline scum, ergo the vote.

[RaudhrGarm]

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 5#p2907315
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 5#p2917685
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 3#p2935963
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 2#p2943172

Also known as herp derp contradictions like you're calling on me. Guess that means that we should lynch you? Do you not think it is possible that my opinion on someone changed? Your stance on Pine has been to change frequently from "oh he's scum" to "newb town". Scum team much? Not to mention that Pine has been repeatedly attacking you as scum, yet you seem to care little for that.

Looks like Pine is trying to cover himself if you flip scum by saying he pushed for a lynch of you the most.

[RaudhrGarm]

Nope, I said that I wanted one, not always wanted. Derp. Unfortunately I don't see him being lynched today either. UNVOTE: Pine

Oh, and before you go back to one of my earlier posts where I said I thought you were town, let me make this clear:
Opinions can change.
Reads of people can change.
VOTE: tclawren

[RaudhrGarm]

This, this andthis. He can't seem to make his mind up on who he wants to target. Clearly directs the post at me, yet when I answer it "nope, I'm talking to C-worl".

Also this for those of you who think I suddenly changed my thoughts on Pine. Then there's this which is what led to Pine wanting to get me lynched mainly. [url=http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 1#p2953791] This comes[/url 6 posts after [url=http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 9#p2952369]this[url/]. Wow, contradiction much?

Finally there's something un-Pine related that's been bugging me:

Mod: If two kill actions were targeted at the same player, would the flavor show both actions?

The only reason I can see for somebody asking this is if they had a killing role and had targeted one of the people who turned up dead. I.E. they're curious as to whether they were role-blocked or not.

FoS

:quadz08

[RaudhrGarm]

@T-Bone, the problem with that is that when I put my vote on Snake, his wagon had a massive one vote.

[RaudhrGarm]

I had not been paying attention to the wagon at that point, if you remember I was on the jin one. The only other notable wagon I can remember at that point was the C-Worl one, which iirc was at L-1.

[RaudhrGarm]

I actually agree that the SK should be left alive, especially as they are usually enough to lynch near the end of the game. They have the same goal as us for the most part, which is to be secure from the scum threat.

Now, would all the non-scum please get off my wagon before other scum turn up and hammer please?

[RaudhrGarm]

[RaudhrGarm]

Well as I know that I'm not scum, and considering how quickly the wagon has been built up, I think it is safe to assume that at least one scum-team is on it, who probably discussed who'd they try to lynch the next day.

Plus Reck, I can't tell if you're serious as to whether you think that that image was a defence.

[RaudhrGarm]

Always wanted =/= wanted.

@Gorilla:
Reck, T-Claw and when he inevitably switches; Pine. They are the ones I'm pretty sure are scum. I'm still uncertain on the others.

[RaudhrGarm]

So we essentially lost two cops and a doc?

Great. :/

It's funny that this is quite literally the only thing you have to say at the beginning of the day.

Fair enough. Oh, and was anybody else intrigued by Nero Cain's decision to laugh at Eldritch's hammer of Snake? Seemed a little out of place.

Was there any reason you brought this up?

Yeah, I'm good with this lynch.

Vote: RaudhrGarm

tclaw is likely mafiascum.
Going to follow up on yesterday's scumsuspects tomorrow.

Interesting, you think that tclaw is scum yet choose to put a vote on me out of the blue. As for bringing up the second quote, I wanted to see if anybody was a bit perturbed by the laughing at the hammer. To me, it felt a little ominous.

[RaudhrGarm]

Huh...

The amount of times that you've voted for Pine Con. Do you know something the town doesn't? Trying to cover yourself for when he flips scum? I'd say that you've done the same as me more or less, and yet I have nay seen any attack on your part. Actually, I agree with you on a lot of things, so I'm inclined to believe that you're town. Or a lone wolf. Not scum though.

[RaudhrGarm]

I know it contradicts itself, but they are my thoughts.

Also, no surprise in you moving wagons Pine. I'm at L-2, so Village is screwed if this lynch goes through.

[RaudhrGarm]

Yeah, I've been in yours

and

Reck's very quickly, with no support until tclaw posted a weak 'contradiction' that quite a few have surprisingly sheeped on. I also note that you do not care for my claim that the Village is in trouble if this lynch goes through.

[RaudhrGarm]

Not an AtE, a fact. The village can't afford to lose any more power roles, that's a fact. It is clear that the scum will be able to manipulate the day phase, so the only power of the VTs, their lynch, will count for nought.

[RaudhrGarm]

Yeah there's the kicker, all you've done is say "oh yeah, I think you're suspicious", when the only reasoning you've given as far as I can see is that I "raised my hand" and "been useless", which I disagree with. There have been far more useless players than me, ach we don't build a wagon on them within a few hours/days of Day 2 starting.

[RaudhrGarm]

Oh wait, there's the meme. Once again, I'm not sure if you seriously don't know what a meme is. First with that, then my "defence" (as you called it). Bit of humour does no foul deed. Also, that was helpful considering how many replacements there were

and

how long the first day had been. It went on for more than 10 pages after that was posted.

[RaudhrGarm]

Pine, could you be more obvious scum? Bright side for me? I can say "I told you so" when you're banging your heads against the wall wondering why you listened to the scummiest players through-out the game for a quick Day 2 lynch.
I'll see y'all in the Dead Topic soon enough I'd expect.

[RaudhrGarm]

Bulletproof Vig, with a twist.

[RaudhrGarm]

So, you want to rely on the SK? Looks like I'll be adding another loss to the town sheet then.

@Pine:
Obligatory kills, which means I have to aim for the scum, ergo NS. Several people highlighted that he was a bit scummy.

[RaudhrGarm]

Oh, and my flavour is to shoot someone, which leads me to believe that I was role-blocked. Any other questions before I go to bed?

[RaudhrGarm]

Already told you, I'm pro-town. If I survive, I'll also be gunning for Reck, Pine, tclaw or someone I've had a change of heart about tonight. You know, just in case the doctor tries to block me.

As I've said, obvious scum are obvious.

[RaudhrGarm]

See you in the morning then, don't try to rush into anything.

[RaudhrGarm]

Yeah, but what pro-town person in their right mind would claim that? I mean, if I

did

claim SK, I might be godkilled for going against my win-condition.

[RaudhrGarm]

I merely want to see the destruction of the Mafia and 3rd paries. As long as those dictated kills result in those deaths, I have no problem.

[RaudhrGarm]

Any objections to a Reck or tclaw kill tonight? No? Good.

[RaudhrGarm]

I had asked that question already, and if I target the PGO, I will survive. If you want rid of me, lynching is the only way to go as far as I know.

[RaudhrGarm]

But he's an annoying hydra.

Fine. Down to tclaw and the unnamed others, just in case scum have a doctor of their own I won't name 'em.

[RaudhrGarm]

Reck, how many times do I need to tell you that I'm Pro-town?

[RaudhrGarm]

Post 1188 should hint as to why I claimed gun kill. As I said, I am pro-town, but I'm afraid of godkills.

I lied about being roleblocked.

[RaudhrGarm]

I just don't want another loss to mafia.

[RaudhrGarm]

You can lynch me if you want, but really, the only ones who want a confirmed pro-town guy out of the game at this stage are scum.

[RaudhrGarm]

I know some of you think it is Pine's meta not to buss his partners, but as I'm not a partner of his, it is possible that he's scum. Plus, he is awfully jumpy with his vote, from me to C-Worl and back again. Even if he isn't scum, do you want someone that uncertain around in lylo?

UNVOTE: tclawren
VOTE: Pine

[RaudhrGarm]

Pine: 2

(Kise, RaudhrGarm)

Also, V/LA to Saturday, 23rd of April.

[RaudhrGarm]

Well, on your heads be it. You (town) have little hope of winning this game now. Look to my wagon for scum.

VOTE: RaudhrGarm

[RaudhrGarm]

Especially Chronopie for scum. Even if you don't believe me about Pine or t-claw (who could be opposite scum teams) look at Chronopie. V/LA for undefined amount of time then pops in to wagon a pro-town player? That should be setting off klaxons for any town players in the game.

[RaudhrGarm]

"yeah getting rid of a nightkill is suck a detriment to town"

Yeah it is when you know that it is pro-town. Derp, I've told you that I don't want another loss to Mafia on my record, but no, kill the anti-scum SK anyway, who was willing to be directed by town.

Chrono
Pine
Reck
T-Claw
Powerrox

I reckon that you'll find your scum there.