Guessing that'd be me?DemonHybrid wrote:Looking for a replacement for Lowell.
NY129-Mafia on Werewolf Island! (Game Over)
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Indeed. For starters, I've essentially only skimmed the game, but...
-C-worl looked town.Unvote.
-So did tclawren.
-Reckamonic and Kise I'm guessing are town, too.
-I remember being suspicious of T-Bone.
That said, I need to read the whole game, instead of skimming. I probably won't wall, actually. Takes three times longer to type than it does to read.My academy.
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Personally, I don't see why it'd be necessary. (Since I thought Tclawren looked town, and therefore shouldn't be forced to claim.)
Anyway, going to start reading up on the game.
Preview-Edit:Gah, I told you so. >_<My academy.
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gorilla <--Looked like a mislynch to me.
T-Bone <--Agreed.
Nachomamma8 <--Wait, Nacho's in this game? Did not really notice him. (Hmmm...)
Chronopie <--Neutral.
MrZepher <--I believe Zepher looked like a mislynch to me.
Of course, I'd like to read the whole game before voting, 'cause skim-reads are rarely very accurate.My academy.
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The extra Neighbors claim, if they exist.My academy.
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Bah. Just lost my post. It was covering the first five pages. But essentially, my reads boiled down to this:
-Bri (powerrox, now) is practically confirmed town.
-tclawren is town.
-T-Bone is scum.
-Nacho is scum.
-Gorilla is a possible jindori buddy.
-Before replacing in, I had a strong read on Charlie. Unfortunately, this read was made nearly a week ago, and I have since forgotten whether it was a strong town read or a strong scum read. Krob's play in the early-game makes me slightly lean towards the latter.
-Kise is town.
-So is C-worl.
Think that covers the highlights. Might've been more. But it's essentially...
2. ConSpiracy <-- ? (I was in the process of determining ConSpiracy's alignment. I believe he was leaning scum.)
4. Charlie * kr0b <--Strong read which I've since forgotten, leaning towards scum.
7. Reckamonic RayFrost <--Town.
10. gorilla ** <--Possible jindori buddy.
11. T-Bone <--Scum.
12. Nachomamma8 ** <--Scum.
13. Pine <--BAD Idea for me to read.
15. Chronopie ** <-- ?
16. Kise * <--Town.
17. singersigner Shift <-- ?
18. implosion <-- ?
19. C-Worl <--Town.
20. MrZepher ** <-- ? (At the early stage of the game, at least.)
23. tclawren <--Town.
24. Powerrox93 bristep123 <--Town.
So, narrowing things down:
2. ConSpiracy <-- Scum? (Weak.)
4. Charlie * kr0b <--Scum?
10. gorilla ** <--Possible jindori buddy.
11. T-Bone <--Scum.
12. Nachomamma8 ** <--Scum.
13. Pine <--Ditto.
15. Chronopie ** <-- ?
17. singersigner Shift <-- ?
18. implosion <-- ?
20. MrZepher ** <-- ? (At the early stage of the game, at least.)
Eliminating the neutrals for now,
2. ConSpiracy <-- Scum? (Weak.)
4. Charlie * kr0b <--Scum?
10. gorilla ** <--Possible jindori buddy.
11. T-Bone <--Scum.
12. Nachomamma8 ** <--Scum.
^There's our scum.
Now, to continue my read.My academy.
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Scum-lean.
Then again, T-bone pointing this out 1: makes me suspicious of Pine being T-bone's buddy, and 2: makes me doubt the Chrono suspicion.
Whoah. Both of these need some serious scumz on them. I can tell Nacho's scum on Pine, and jindori's scum on C-Worl, but there needs to be more than this! I suppose Moonstruck semi-counts, but still, that's only three and a half scum--I'd expect 1-2 more on here.The Mod wrote:Pine - 8 (bristep123, ConSpiracy,Nobody Special,C-Worl, Nachomamma8, Chronopie,tclawren,Nero Cain) L-5
C-Worl - 8 (RayFrost,Seraphim,, Pine,jindori, SnakePlissken, MaxKojoteLucresia,) L-5[Moonstruck]
Names alive on the Pine Wagon:
Bristep (Powerrox), ConSpiracy, C-worl, Nacho, Chrono, tclaw.
-Bristep/Powerrox, C-worl, and tclaw are all town.
*Leaving ConSpiracy, Nacho, and Chrono.
~Nacho's scum; it's painfully obvious to me. But I still expect one more scum in there, minimum.
Names alive on the C-worl wagon:
RayFrost (Reckamonic), Pine.
-Wagon contains two scum.
*However, one of the scum is a third party.
~I'd still expect one more scum on here.
~Since Reckamonic's town, this doesn't look good for Pine.
=...Though my Pine reads are probably not the most reliable things in the world.
This is through page six. Let's see how my reads change. (They probably won't. First five are really the most important on getting into the game.)My academy.
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...Every single word that I hear? Don't make me build a case for C-worl being town! You know how that goes... (I'm trying to keep things a little more concise when going solo. )My academy.
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ConSpiracy is good. Picks up on Chrono/Pine being suspicious. (One of Chrono/ConSpiracy is likely scum, after all.)
Bad posting. Suggests krob (now Charlie) scum. Again.
To be honest, not so fond of Shift (now singer) going after the two popular wagons of the time, C-worl and Pine.
C-Worl - 8 (RayFrost,Seraphim, SnakePlissken, MaxKojote, Pine,Lucresia,, Shift) L-5[Moonstruck]
^Still contains scum. Can only be {RayFrost/Reckamonic, Pine, Shift/Singer}, 1-2 of which are scum. And since Reckamonic isn't it...
...Yeah. Lookin' real bad for Pine, and now Singer as well.
This single post resets kr0b back to neutral (was leaning scum). (I wish I could remember which side of the spectrum my strong read was on... :/)
T-bone's post is pure scum. Not sure what to make of it from this, though. Makes me kinda want to say Chrono's town. Also slightly increases my Shift/singer suspicion.
-jindori is not the same scum faction as T-Bone. Quite positive of this.
Not too fond of gorilla here.
Jindori also backs up gorilla, increasing the link between them.
There's also a Shift-Jindori connection, but it looks like it's too obvious, like Shift is intentionally coaching Jindori. (As in, opposite scum team, but still scum coaching.)
Evidence Charlie's town, via predecessor's actions.
Shift's continuous defense of T-Bone seems rather scummy. Not sold on them being the SAME scum-team, but it DOES look like they're both scum.
C-Worl - 10 (RayFrost,Seraphim, SnakePlissken, MaxKojote, Pine,Lucresia,, Shift,[Moonstruck]tclawren,) L-3jindori
^Still has 2-3 scum. Jindori is one. Moonstruck is half. That's still 1-2 scum needed. Can't be RayFrost or tclaw. Leaves us with Shift and Pine.
Will need to analyze this. Interaction with T-Bone AND Chrono.
Page 10 seems to mostly be C-worl against Jindori, but what's not those two is quite interesting.My academy.
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To answer Pine:
C-worl is town for too many reasons.
-Gut. I looked at C-worl, and I saw him as town.
-Meta. C-worl's play here is consistent with what I know of C-worl from There Will Be Bloodshed.
-Wagons. Or rather, the wagon ON C-worl. There's no way it built that fast if it was on scum.
-General interactions with others. C-worl doesn't fit as scumbuddies with pretty much most of my scumreads.
Now if you don't mind, I still need to read fifty pages.My academy.
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Guess who?Chrono wrote:Highly likely that at least one of Krob andTBoneare scum.
:goodposting:
I can pretty much (though not completely) invert this list and have it be accurate:RayFrost wrote:List o' townies:
NS
Chronopie
Implosion
t-bone
tclawren
gorilla
jindori
List o' teh scumz:
C-worl
bristep
krob
Cworl, bristep (and replacement), kr0b (and replacement, currently) all town, jindori, Gorilla, Pine (later added to town-list), T-bone scum (with possible Chronopie).
You just lost it.T-bone wrote:@The Game.
Massive understatement.My Predecessor wrote:That said, his reaction was over-the-top and his general behavior isn't great.
Right. These people are town to the wolf. Guess what that means?Jindori's 'town list' wrote:Pine
Chronopie
gorrilla
shift
conspiracy
(Coincidentally, everyone on said list is alive.)
Not sure how to read Zephr.
Searching out a bandwagon?
This looks poor.
Moving on to fifteen, so posting this.My academy.
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I dunno. Just does. Though to be fair, you're near the bottom of the scumlist.My academy.
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This seemed scummy.
This looks opportunistic, too.
This looks just as bad as the quote used.
I dunno why, but Zephr admitting he's stretching with his case, made on two people with some not-so-strong connections somehow makes me think he's town.
More :goodposting: from Zephr, calling out ConSpiracy.
Feelin' better about implosion.
Not particularly fond of gorilla's post, either.
C-Worl - 9 (RayFrost,Seraphim, SnakePlissken, Eldritch Lord, Lucresia,tclawren, Chronopie, MrZepher,Lowell) L-4
SnakePlissken - 7 (Shift,Kise,Nobody Special, ConSpiracy, implosion, gorilla,)jindori
The C-worl wagon's waxed and waned so many times that I haven't bothered to do VCA of it, but this Snake wagon is near its peak, I believe. A concerning number of scummy players on it, too. (Oh, and on C-worl, looks like one of Chronopie and Zepher is guaranteed scum; possible both are.)
Seriously, Why does Nacho live?
I don't know why you people ever got C-worl to L-1. C-worl's obv-town.
This is through 20, so posting.My academy.
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Nope. I'm known for quality* (length) rather than quantity**. I do, however, prefer to keep things as short as possible when replacing into a game and giving my thoughts summarized up as nicely as I can.ConSpiracy wrote:mastin, are you always posting so much?
(*My posts tend to look quite nonsensical to others, but if people spend the absolutely-horrendously-huge amount of time to read them and attempt to understand them, once they've broken into "Mastin-speak" and know what I'm thinking about, they'll realize I actually have some tremendously-strong, useful, powerful information in my posts.
It's just hard to find 'cause I suck at communicating with others, which therefore makes it a maze of words that is too long for most to handle. )
**Though I have been getting more active, recently. Mainly due to being reinvigorated, which is because of [REDACTED].My academy.
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BAD posting. If Pine thought C-worl was scum,He should have hammered,.right then and there
The extreme LACK of a hammer--and continued drive of C-worl as scumeven to this day, is evidence that Pine never wanted to lynch C-worl, the convenient mislynch. Pine wanted to keep C-worl alive, for that eventual mislynch. Pine didn't want to look scummy for hammering. "Short days"?
B.S.
21 pages is by no means a short day. Especially when they were 12 days from deadline--that's not a short day. Especially with so many people having given it their all and those that hadn't dieing out naturally. (If that makes sense.)
Like you, Pine?
Pine's reaction seemed fake to me.
Oh, not the "WTF" part.
I'd do that as pretty much any alignment.
But the rest seems fake. Or rather, like it's containing rage inside. As if Pine's jindori's partner. (...What?It makes sense tome! )
Of course, I'm probably not the only one who came to this conclusion, after Pine switched from going "LYNCH HIM!" hardcore, to complete and total defense.
Sounds like a faked reaction. Not necessarily that T-Bone is scum with Jindori, containing rage, but rather, it sounds faked in that it seems to be covering up joy. Just a vibe I got from it, that T-Bone sounded like he was silently celebrating the elimination of competition. (If you catch my drift...)
In fact, his followup reeks of opportunism. It's as if T-bone is silently shouting, "Score!"
I believe T-bone when he says he's in disbelief. It just sounds to me he's thinking, "I can't believe how lucky I am!"
Creates a gorilla link between Pine and, well, Gorilla.
Losing my coherence, so I think I'll stop posting for the night and not continue on to 25.My academy.
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Fun fact about Pine:
He's seen my play.
He KNOWS I have trouble explaining my reads.
He also is strawmanning my defense of C-worl, when I gave MULTIPLE reasons that pretty much every word C-worl was saying had me thinking town.
More than that, Pine's in the pasteven acknowledged that I take firm reads. The fact that he's conveniently 'forgot' all of this and thinks that my read is BS--when he should know very well and good that it's just my style to play this way--is quite condemning.
Nice to see you, too, Nacho. Shame we replaced in as opposite alignments and you're scum.Nacho wrote:MASTIN!
I unfortunately do not have that much time on my hand, but I will do what reading I can.My academy.
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Reeks of bussing.
Note that shortly after gorilla (and T-Bone, for that matter, but see my previous posts) posts, jindori freaks out. It very well could be that Jindori was looking for guidance from his werewolf buddies--and when one/both of them got on HIS wagon, suggesting that he needed to die, he gave up all hope and thought HE needed to die because they said so.
(tclawren, T-Bone,RaudhrGarm, Powerrox93, gorilla)
^I don't think it'd be tclaw, and I don't think T-Bone is on the same side as Jindori. The other two, on the other hand...
(I still think Powerrox is town, but Gorilla...)
Fits with Gorilla being Jindori's partner.jindori wrote: i feel like i been cheated and backstabbed.
I get the impression that Pine and T-Bone are both scum, but their interaction doesn't seem like bussing--it seems like scum, trying to press for a mislynch, unaware that their chosen target is of the opposite faction. (That's just an added bonus!)
This feels like goodposting.
Scumz.
While I would've preferred some of C-worl's own analysis, the information posted seems accurate enough, and sums up jindori interactions quite nicely. (Even if not fully accurate, viewing things through the filter of C-worl gives us good insight into C-worl's alignment. Vice-versa, too: if we know C-worl's alignment, seeing this post through C-worl's filter gives us a good insight into the game.) I will analyze it myself when I have more time to spare.
This is through 29, but I'm fresh out of time.My academy.
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I don't see how. This isn't even close to as much reasoning as I could give.
But, anyway, got a little under an hour--I think I can read another five or so pages. 30 it is!My academy.
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This reads badly.
Spoiler: Off-topic, to Pine
Side-note: analyze the C-worl L-1 wagon and find the scum on it. Pine's an honorary member of the wagon, just for the record, even if he didn't hammer.
There is a difference between scum sarcasm and town sarcasm. Gorilla does not display the latter.
This is not a town way to react to someone shaking your confidence in a read. At least, not if you're town.
Scum reaction.
It's gotten to the point where it'sextremelytempting to call Gorilla and Pine as Jindori's scumbuddies. (It fits so well.) On the other team, I'd say T-Bone and Nacho, with one more I have yet to determine.
-TBone is not on the same team as Jindori; that's obvious. But he's still obv-scum.
-Gorilla is on Jindori's team, almost guaranteed.
-That leaves one slot open. Jindori, Gorilla, and...who?
-Nacho is possible to be a partner, but it doesn't seem to mesh that well.
-Additionally, while Pine being scum with T-Bone CAN fit, it doesn't feel as natural as them being scum on opposite sides. Which feels extremely natural.
That's through 34. I'm not seeing anything which looks favorable to Gorilla. Or to Pine. Or to T-Bone. Or to Nacho.
Seriously, you guys have slacked off this game so much if you've let all these obvscum live.My academy.
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I'm not on this computer long before I switch to my laptop, when I'll continue this.
Yes. When I choose to be. Amazing, how good I am once I decide to stop sucking, eh?TBone wrote:It's funny how you can come on and immediately find 4 scum. You're amazing.
Lots of people in this game replaced lurkers. Lots of people in this game HAVE been lurkers.However I won't put much stock into your reads, because you replaced into a predecessor's slot who fairly much acted like scum, and that I'm town.
What singles Lowell out? The fact that suddenly, his replacement is suspicious of you?
There's a word for that:
OMGUS.
No. I'm picking who the scum are, simple as that. I can give reasons for all of them.I think what you're doing is picking 4 different people with varying levels of activity and hoping something will stick. Pine? Very active. Me? Little less active. Gorilla? Semi-active. Nacho? Not active at all.
Nacho--among others, Meta. I've played with him before, and have freakin' hydra'd with him in three games. I think I know scum-Nacho from town-Nacho. This is scum-Nacho.
You--obvious.
Pine--explained.
Gorilla--also explained.
No. I'm sticking to ALL of these. And I'm going to push it through.So I can throw some shit at the wall and see if something sticks, and then quietly fade into the background on Day 4, scoff free.
Out of time--see you in under half an hour. When I will resume, finish responding to T-Bone, and point out a contradiction I just spotted in Gorilla's posts. (See if you can find it, first.)My academy.
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Spoiler: T-Bone's Post Stuff
Gorilla wrote:mastin trying to connect me to jindori + pine is bunk, if you really think a scum player, even a newbscum player is going to put their entire team in a townlist then :/ is all I have to say in response. It's just as possible you'll see no real connections between jindori and his teammates when all is said and done.
A-hem. "We can't use anything Jindori says when it implicates me as scum, but we CAN use anything Jindori says when it implicates someone ELSE as scum!" That's essentially what Gorilla just said to me. HUGE contradiction, and EXTREMELY scummy.Gorilla wrote:jindori listed kr0b as mafia. Not really feeling him as a potential partner.
For the record?
This wagon needs to die. Quickly.The Mod wrote:tclawren - 6 (implosion, ConSpiracy, Pine, C-Worl, Reckamonic, Chronopie) L-3
Now, if you'll excuse me, I've got some effing reading to do.
I think I've conclusively shown my stances hold solid. (Heck, when I get caught up, I might go through the trouble of making cases on 'em. Nacho since you people have ignored that scum for too long, T-Bone since you can't seem to see the simple fact that he IS scum, and Gorilla because there's no current support there. Pine, eh, kinda explains itself, that read. If you're not convinced by the time I've done the other three, I suppose I'd make one for Pine as well.)My academy.
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Fine. TL;DR of why I haven't done the VCA?
Because I'm saving it.
FOR AFTER IGET FREAKIN CAUGHT UP IN THE THREAD!
VCA is my greatest weapon. I've used it WHEN it implicated me. (First game as Calcifer. With those two scumteams. It was a Large Normal. I was doing VCA, and pointed out very accurately where the scum on the wagons were placed--I used it as evidence against other players, but if people read the posts carefully, they would've realized that the VCA actually was me essentially giving them my entire scumteam. ) I wrote a Guide on how to use it.
I save it for after I've gotten caught up, after I've established reads.
For one simple reason:
Reads gotten from VCA are rarely correct. Reads gotten from the thread, which are backed up by VCA are almost always correct.
The accusation of me not using it when it'd implicate me is BS. Since
-I'd use it anyway
-And I WILL use it. WHEN I FREAKIN NEED TO.
Nowstop distracting me!I need to get work done on this game, and this BS argument on me about VCA has slowed that down.
(Know what? I'm going to ignore posts made by my scumreads. Since I know Pine is aware I am easily distracted, and might be trying to divert my attention from my read because he knows that it'll delay me.)My academy.
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Now where did I leave off before I got distracted?
Ah, yes. Page 35.
By now, the Snake wagon has grown to the point where it needs 2 scum, one from each faction. But no more.The Mod wrote:SnakePlissken - 6 (implosion,,RaudhrGarmKise, T-Bone, gorilla, MrZepher)
This suggests
-T-Bone is one faction of scum.
-Gorilla is the other.
-Implosion, Kise, and Zepher are all town.
On to fourty.My academy.
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Bussing.
Lynch wagon. Since the last time I did my analysis, only thing changed is that now there should be 1-2 more scum on than before. Nacho's one of them.The Mod wrote:SnakePlissken - 12 (,RaudhrGarmKise, T-Bone, gorilla, MrZepher,C-Worl,Lowell, Nero Cain, ConSpiracy,tclawren, Nachomamma8,Eldritch Lord)
To my knowledge, the whole extent of Pine's Lowell suspicion rests in a single post. Which is never followed through on...until I express suspicion on Pine. (Then again, still have a little under twenty pages of catch-up.)
Know what this is? The classic "buddy and two townies" scum list: scum lists their scumbuddy along with two other people not on their team as their choice for scum.
It's quite the clever strategy. (I picked it up from ZazieR when Zazie was coaching Haylen, in the Vengeful I modded.)
It's also incredibly obvious once you know to look for it.
Which I do.
On to 45. After which, I might retire for the night; I'm losing my coherence.
RaudhrGarm - 5 (tclawren, Reckamonic, C-Worl, ConSpiracy, Nachomamma8)
^Guess what? We've finally got scum on this wagon. Four, can be all town. (Even if kinda doubtful.) Five, scum. Guaranteed.
By the end of 45, there's like three or four votes extra, but I'm too tired to figure out the exact number and who it is, and don't want to go to the next page (since if I do, I'll compulsively read it all) despite it almost-certainly having a votecount there. But it does seem like Garm has extra scum. And I know who.
Posting. I need to sleep before I continue, sorry.My academy.
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mastin2 The Second Coming
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Resuming from 46.
RaudhrGarm - 7 (tclawren, Reckamonic, C-Worl, ConSpiracy, Nachomamma8, gorilla, T-Bone) L-3
^Huh? Coulda sworn that there were more on this wagon. Ah, well. Still contains 2-3 scum.
Which--in this case--is Nacho, Gorilla, and T-Bone.
RaudhrGarm - 8 (tclawren, Reckamonic, C-Worl, ConSpiracy, Nachomamma8, gorilla, T-Bone, Pine) L-2
^Two scum from each faction! And look, they think they're spread out between two townies, when ironically, it's a solid block of scum! Other faction, Werewolf, Other faction, Werewolf!
tclawren - 6 (Kise,Lowell, Eldritch Lord, singersigner,,RaudhrGarmNacho,)
^Oh, look, we've got scum!
RaudhrGarm - 6 (tclawren, Reckamonic, C-Worl, gorilla, T-Bone,quadz08) L-4
tclawren - 6 (Kise,Lowell, Eldritch Lord, singersigner,, Nachomamma8) L-4RaudhrGarm
^A more formal votecount. Between these wagons, we get four scum, two on each. Gorilla and T-Bone, Garm (technically) and Nacho.
This reminds me of active-lurking-scum-singer in a newbie game.Singer wrote:While I understand the logic behind saying this, bad play is bad play. Sometimes it just looks scummy, and now it's our job to figure out which is which (way to go).
For the record? This was horrible reasoning:
If the town directs the SK kills, then they're essentially killing people who would have been lynched the next day: if they hit town, that's no different from a town mislynch. Horribad logic. The only time to lynch a SK is when 1: it's too close to lylo, or 2: they go off of their chain and kill someone they were not supposed to.
Otherwise, leashing the SK and directing the kills is effectively an extra town lynch.
I never saw anyone go,Raud: Please Kill...
I saw some people whisper, "Raud's intending to kill these people, who I think are town." I never saw people actually DIRECTING the SK. Lots of debate, some fears of Raud killing the wrong person...
...But nobody suggesting who he SHOULD kill.
WTH, people. I'll be reading more into this debate, 'cause I'm clearly seeing scum speaking, here.My academy.
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Like this. "Directing the SK can never go right! They'll always shoot wrong!" (No more so than the town. Heck, I've seen SKs who single-handedly wiped out almost the entire scumteam: the town kept mislynching and probably would've lost had it not been for the most-generous SK who shot almost every single scum. True, I've also seen SKs hit town, when they were being directed...but those targets were people who would've been mislynched, anyway, within a day or two.)
This. Oh so much this.
Sad. Not that they made this. That it didn't go through. It really shoulda. (If everyone had done this, like rational people should've, then Garm didn't need to be lynched. But noooooo, the scum were AFRAID of it...)Pine: 3 (Kise, RaudhrGarm, C-Worl)
RaudhrGarm - 8 (tclawren, Reckamonic, C-Worl, gorilla, T-Bone,quadz08, Lowell, Pine) L-2
Gorilla, T-Bone, and Pine are the only people on this wagon who aren't pretty much confirmed town.
Valid.Kise wrote:SingSing is looking like scum all a sudden, why are you pushing buttons?
Casual attitude from singer really is looking bad.
RaudhrGarm - 9 (tclawren, Reckamonic, C-Worl, gorilla, T-Bone,quadz08, Lowell, Pine, Chronopie) L-1
^To be honest, I'm not too fond of how few scum there are on here. Three. I'd expect one more. Might be Chrono.
As Garm stated, this list contains serious scum. I see three. It's possible there's a fourth.Wants to lynch SK:
C-Worl,quadz, gorilla,lowell,powerrox, T-Bone, Pine,Reckmon, TC, Chronopie
RaudhrGarm - 9 (tclawren, Reckamonic, C-Worl, gorilla, T-Bone,Lowell, Pine, Chronopie,) L-1RaudhrGarm
^Backs this up quite nicely.
Getting rid of a second lynch is totally town, too!
Linked, because this is among the most scummy reactions to the claim there is, ignoring the obvious logic behind letting the SK live on a leash. Number of kills at night is irrelevant. If you do the math, Garm acting as a second lynch actually SAVES lives.
Garm kept alive:
One town-choice death during the day.
One town-choice death during the night.
Two scum-choice dead during the night.
End result: two obv-town dead, two suspects dead.
Repeat.
Four obv-town dead, four suspects dead.
Garm killed:
One town-choice dead during the day.
Two scum-choice dead during the night.
End result: two obv-town dead, one suspect dead.
Repeat.
Four obv-town dead, and only two suspects dead.
Essentially, Garm could've doubled our efficiency.
Gorilla's Charlie vote looked bad. However...
Might be "why are you voting for my buddy?"T-Bone wrote:^^reason?
:goodposting:
That's through 54. I think I can get caught up in one final sweep.My academy.
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Scumz.
Remember when I first came into the game, and thought that Gorilla wasn't a good lynch? It was because of this. Gorilla's correct about the speed of the wagon being alarming. Jumping ahead to the votecount:
Charlie - 4.5 (Kise, ConSpiracy,C-Worl, Powerrox93,)Gorilla
This might be evidence of Conspiracy scum, but I'm not sold on this wagon having more than one scum. (Gorilla.)
C-Worl - 2 (Reckamonic, MrZepher,Lowell, Pine)
^Guess who the scum here is?
Blatant bandwagoning.
LFT. (QFT, only linked. )
I'm going to take a wild stab in the dark and guess that C-worl being able to guess the code means it has something to do with their combined off-site experience, something common there which MSers don't know about.
Irony.
tclawren - 5 (implosion, ConSpiracy, Pine,C-Worl, Reckamonic) L-4
^Guess where the scum are? No more than two at this point, but I have this sneaking suspicion it's only one. Anyone want to venture a guess as to who?
Scumz.
Nah, we can just leave Charlie to the SKOHWAITNOWECAN'TCAUSEYOULYNCHEDHIM!Hey mafias or werewolves, will you kill Charlie tonight? kthx...
Liking this post.
Upon review, remarkably accurate.Tclaw's scumlist wrote:gorilla
T-Bone
Nachomamma8
Chronopie
MrZepher
tclawren - 8 (implosion, ConSpiracy, Pine,C-Worl, Reckamonic, Chronopie, MrZepher,Kise) L-1
^I'm really concerned, now. I've only got one scumread on this wagon; I'd expect at least two.
This is through 59. I don't think there's not much more to comment on from there which I haven't done already.My academy.
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I can't decide if this is bussing, going after an easy mislynch, or a combination of the two (bussing an easily-lynched partner). Also, note how T-Bone is selectively scum-hunting.
He rules out kr0b/Charlie being a member of the other scumteam, and mentions specifically the werewolves.
I'm not defending my meta as being town. I'm pointing out that you're attacking my playstyle, things I do every game which are quite null. And anyone who's played with me will observe that every scumtell you listed against me is just my style. (Unfortunately, it would appear two of the people who could most back me up--Pine and Nacho--are scum, so they probably won't.)T-Bone wrote:#1532. I know you're interested in meta, but defending your own meta is meaningless to the game.
Also, T-Bone's reliance on Nacho is a clear link between 'em.
Nope. Just was waiting until I had finished my read (which I have, now) before paying attention to the people clearly trying to distract me.This sounds like someone is giving up.
By Lorthia, you guys suck. All of these wagons are Horribad.The Mod wrote:tclawren - 4 (implosion, ConSpiracy, Reckamonic, Chronopie)
Charlie - 3 (T-Bone, Kise, Powerrox93)
Chronopie - 3 (gorilla, MrZepher, C-Worl)
MrZepher - 2 (Nachomamma8, tclawren)
mastin2 - 2 (Pine, Charlie)
TClaw--might as well be confirmed-town.
Zepher--very-doubtfully scum.
Me--obviously not scum.
Charlie&Chrono: Admittedly?
It's possible either are.
Possible. But I am not confident enough in either of them to be the fourth scum to lay down a vote. Instead, let's get some real scum lynched.
Vote: T-Bone.
There. Now we have a winning wagon!My academy.
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No. I pointed out who would know me best, but specifically said that they probably wouldn't, 'cause they're scum.T-Bone wrote: I'm using Nacho to back me up...hold on a sec, you continue to say "Nacho knows how I play" Pot, meet kettle, he's black.
C-worl's played with me once before.
So has singersigner.
Kise played with me years ago, and saw me briefly as scum in one game, and [REDACTED]. So, Kise's impression of me is outdated.
Both halves of Reckamonic were my partners briefly as scum in the same game as Kise, and both halves also played with me in the past; again, they're pretty outdated.
Nacho's been in almost every game I've been in since my return, and this is my third game with Pine, who plays (at least, played) similarly enough to me that he got inside of my mind in our first game, pretty much.
Hence, Nacho and Pine are the best two (but not the only two), yet they're unfortunately both scum this game, which is why I expected they wouldn't.
You, on the other hand, called out a single name--Nacho--to defend yourself. More than that, your read on Nacho is...what is it, again? Well, it certainly isn't a scumread; I know that much from your posts.
What.Wait, how can you call me calling you out OMGUS, but then vote me because I am calling you out? Hypocrite. At least don't fall under the same accusations you're spitting out.
No, seriously.
What.
I called you out. You started thinking I'm suspicious. That's OMGUS.
I follow through with my suspicion--started BEFORE your suspicion--and placed a vote.
That's not OMGUS'ing you due to your suspicion on me.
That's me having finally caught up and laying down my vote where it needs to be:
On my number one suspect.
I'm calling it as I see it. Simple as that. If I have a scumread, I'll point it out. Got a town-read, I'll point it out. And what I've seen so far has consistently painted you as scum, on the opposite team of Jindori.I really think based on your first post that you are picking random names and then only seeing what you want to see.
Nothing I've seen from you has convinced me otherwise.
My other reads? They've all done something which at least throws for a second my suspicion into doubt. Gorilla noting the fast wagon, Pine's attitude in certain areas, Nacho's latest post had something in it (dunno what) make my gut briefly go "town?", etc.
Nope, not you.
Consistently, you've been showing yourself to be scum, and I'm not going to stop pushing you until you're lynched.
And here's where your theory falls apart:T-Bone wrote:So you come out suspicious of me without reading the game?
I had skimmed the game before replacing in.
Read entire blocks of pages, skimmed-but-read many more, read every-third-or-so-page, reading all-of-the-last-five-pages, etcetera. Things like that.
It wasn't enough to get concrete reads, but it was enough to give me a good general view of the game immediately upon replacing in. I had those reads from this skim, and when I did a more solidified read of the game rather than a skim, some of them changed. Gorilla went from "looks like a mislynch" into "scum", for instance.
Not in the mood to explain, after responding to T-Bone. Remind me later.Nacho wrote:What's so terrible about that post?
This is an interesting way to describe it, but upon thinking about it, Nacho's right; it's sadly very true. :/They're more akin to an addiction;
(I'm an Obsessive Compulsive Wallposter! )
Posting. I think after this, I'll do proper VCA of the whole game. And by "Proper", I mean "Mastin-style". Since traditional VCA leaves gaps.My academy.
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Fortunately, the mod has given votecounts so consistently that I'm pretty much considering a nomination for Smoothe Operator after the game is over.
This means I have a lot of VCs to work with.
Since there are seven scum in this game (three on each side, serial killer), I'd expect 2-3 scum voting at this time. (24 players. 9 of them voting. That's 37.5% of the players. Since there are 7 scum, that figures that 2.625 of 'em--rounded up or down, that's two or three--are voting.)The Mod wrote:RayFrost - 2 (Kise, C-Worl)
Shift - 1 (gorilla)
gorilla - 1 (Nobody Special)
bristep123 - 1 (SnakePlissken)
MaxKojote - 1 (RayFrost)
Nobody Special - 1 (Lowell))
Chronopie - 1 (MaxKojote)
kr0b - 1 (Nero Cain
Unfortunately, I only see one which is. Makes me wonder.
3-4 scum voting. Jindori's one of them. This VCA also suggests Gorilla is one. Still leaves one more, and it's looking like ConSpiracy.The Mod wrote:Nobody Special - 3 (Lowell,Kise, ConSpiracy)
C-Worl - 3 (RayFrost,Seraphim,)jindori
RayFrost - 1 (C-Worl)
Shift - 1 (gorilla)
gorilla - 1 (Nobody Special)
bristep123 - 1 (SnakePlissken)
Chronopie - 1 (MaxKojote)
jindori - 1 (Nero Cain)
Pine - 1 (bristep123)
There's more reasoning to this than you think:
There's seven (1) wagons. Combined, you'd expect AT LEAST one scum in there. (Gorilla.) There's also two (3) wagons. Which--when combined--make a single (6) wagon, which you'd expect 1-2 scum on. (Average of 1 scum on each.)
Jindori takes care of the C-worl scum. But NS could use one--and that'd be ConSpiracy.
Nobody Special - 4 (Lowell,Kise, ConSpiracy, implosion)
C-Worl - 4 (RayFrost,Seraphim,)jindori, SnakePlissken
RayFrost - 1 (C-Worl)
implosion - 1 (gorilla)
gorilla - 1 (Nobody Special)
Chronopie - 1 (MaxKojote)
Pine - 1 (bristep123)
Nero Cain - 1 (T-Bone)
T-Bone - 1 (tclawren)
Not voting - 9 (Nero Cain,kr0b,Lucresia, Nachomamma8, Chronopie, Shift, MrZepher,, Pine)[Moonstruck]
By now, you should know the routine: 4-5 scum voting, 2-3 not. ("...That doesn't quite fit the numbers..." Well, at this point, "Not Voting" has become pretty much a choice: a wagon of its own. And on a wagon of nine, you'd expect 2-3 scum.) This obviously incriminates Nacho and Pine as the three scum with Moonstruck.
That leaves four scum voting. You'd expect two scum on the main two (4) wagons, now a single 8 wagon. No more, though--with small scumteams, you don't want to risk more than half your members on a single wagon! My choices remain unchanged for who these two are. Jindori is obviously one, and ConSpiracy looks like the other. As for the two scum not on those two (4) wagons, this is obviously Gorilla and T-Bone, who are both (1) voters, which combine to make a single 7 wagon, which--yup--should have exactly that many scum on it, two.
Looking like the scumteams at this point are {ConSpiracy, Nacho, T-Bone} and {Jindori, Gorilla, Pine}.
As large as they are, no more than 4-5 scum are on the two (8) wagons at this point. The reason why is quite simple: you don't want to risk your entire scumteam on the lead two wagons. (ESPECIALLY if one of them contains your buddy.)The Mod wrote:Pine - 8 (bristep123, ConSpiracy,Nobody Special,C-Worl, Nachomamma8, Chronopie,tclawren,Nero Cain) L-5
C-Worl - 8 (RayFrost,Seraphim,, Pine,jindori, SnakePlissken, MaxKojoteLucresia,) L-5[Moonstruck]
Nobody Special - 3 (Lowell,Kise, implosion)
implosion - 1 (gorilla)
Nero Cain - 1 (T-Bone)
Not voting - 3 (kr0b, Shift, MrZepher)
On Pine, this suggests ConSpiracy and Nacho. On C-worl, it suggests Pine. Doubly-so, because guess what?
Jindori is on C-worl rather than Pine, AND is voting WITH Pine, making a Jindori-Pine connection.
That's still 2 scum off the wagon, though. You definitely expect one scum in the (1) voters (Gorilla, T-Bone), but I'd also expect one scum in the two (3) wagons. (Yes, "Not Voting" counts as a wagon!) Coincidentally, a lot of those players are or were lurkers. So, uh, not sure I can find the scum in there if existing.
Not much has changed, other than an additional vote on C-Worl and Jindori moving to Pine. I'll need to see the context of that vote to make conclusions from it, but initial thoughts are "BUSSING BIG TIME!". But, still, with 9 votes, Pine has 3 scum on him at this point: two from the opposite faction, one from his own, bussing. (Jindori.)Pine - 9 (bristep123, ConSpiracy,Nobody Special,C-Worl, Nachomamma8, Chronopie,tclawren,Nero Cain,) L-4jindori
C-Worl - 8 (RayFrost,Seraphim, SnakePlissken, MaxKojote, Pine,Lucresia,, Shift) L-5[Moonstruck]
Nobody Special - 3 (Lowell,Kise, implosion)
implosion - 1 (gorilla)
Nero Cain - 1 (T-Bone)
Not voting - 2 (kr0b, MrZepher)
Other than that, unchanged--this VCA suggests two scum on C-worl (Pine, Moonstruck), and 2 scum off. (I WANT to say Gorilla AND T-Bone, but not sure it's both. If I had to choose, it'd be T-Bone, though.)
I'm going to eat; when I return, I'll resume from Votecount Eight.My academy.
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Spoiler: On Me replacing in
No. Chrono and Charlie are both POSSIBLE scum. Chrono moreso than Charlie. But neither are guaranteed scum.T-Bone wrote:I won't get lynched today because guys like Chronopie and Charlie are better lynches
Like you are.
You. Need. To Die.Today.
Fact: I skimmed the thread before so much as asking the mod to replace in. And then, posted my reads. And THEN started to analyze the whole read. That's not 'random accusations'. That's "accusations made off of partial information".Fact. You made random accusations before analyzing the thread.
Spoiler: About VCA (WARNING: SUPER LONG)
Spoiler: On OMGUS'ing
How about nailing four of the five scum? VCA's what I'm using to find the fifth, of course. And if that doesn't work, I compiled all of these convenient notes on all the non-confirmed players.T-Bone wrote:Fact. There is NOT a single town thing you have done thus far in this game.
Spoiler: Ranting on WallsTL;DR of T-Bone's Accusations:
He's so wrong it's not even funny.My academy.
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...And that worked up my apetite. Again. Going to eat once more. Then I'll resume my VCA without interruption, since I just remembered something:
I'm easily distracted (have made that rather obvious, haven't I? ), so I'll just ignore him until I finish.My academy.
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C-worl, there's a subtle difference between town and scum play. I've written, like, three articles about the subject. Eventually, if you know where to look, you can pick out the differences. It's an extra layer of scum hunting.
To explain it on the surface level, on the traditional layer of scum hunting isn't too hard.
To explain the differences between when the scum and when the town does it on the surface level, on the level of tradtional scum hunting...well, then it gets a bit harder.
I'm a master of that sub-level, but have pretty much zero skills at the normal level.
(VCA is kinda like my bridge between levels. Traditional style VCA is on the normal level. My VCA goes a bit deeper, exploring the scum mechanics and how they interact on that sub-level, but doesn't go all the way down, so I can explain it in semi-rational terms. That's essentially why it's my best tool; it's the tool which makes the most sense to other people viewing my posts. Everything I say makes perfect sense to ME, after all.
I could ramble on all day about these subjects. But rather than clutter the thread, I think I'll do something productive and actually scum hunt. By resuming my VCA from where I left off.)My academy.
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Jindori takes care of the scum not voting, suggesting that krob (now Charlie) and Zepher are both town.The Mod wrote:C-Worl - 9 (RayFrost,Seraphim, SnakePlissken, MaxKojote, Pine,Lucresia,, Shift,[Moonstruck]tclawren) L-4
Pine - 6 (bristep123, ConSpiracy,C-Worl, Nachomamma8, Chronopie,Nero Cain)
Nobody Special - 3 (Lowell,Kise, implosion)
implosion - 1 (gorilla)
Chronopie - 1 (T-Bone)
Not voting - 4 (kr0b, MrZepher,)jindori, Nobody Special
Pine likely has 2 scum on him, still.
I know there's at least two scum on C-worl (Pine, Moonstruck), but I'd actually expect a third. This looks worse for Shift. (To the point where I'd almost call a Singer/ConSpiracy-Nacho-TBone scumteam. One of Singer/ConSpiracy looks really bad by this VCA, so I definitely will be looking at their interactions with Nacho and T-Bone on my reread.)
'Course, that still leaves 1-2 scum not in those three main wagons (C-worl, Pine, Not Voting). T-Bone is my #1 choice.
(Of interesting note--The Pine wagon dieing out while the C-worl wagon remains is further evidence of Pine being scum.)The Mod wrote:C-Worl - 10 (RayFrost,Seraphim, SnakePlissken, MaxKojote, Pine,Lucresia,, Shift,[Moonstruck]tclawren,) L-3jindori
Pine - 5 (bristep123, ConSpiracy, Nachomamma8, Chronopie,Nero Cain)
Nobody Special - 3 (Lowell,Kise, implosion)
implosion - 1 (gorilla)
Chronopie - 1 (T-Bone)
jindori - 1 (C-Worl)
Not voting - 3 (kr0b, MrZepher,Nobody Special)
Still expect 1-2 scum on Pine. C-worl now has three scum for sure.
Remaining scum are off. The two or so remaining definitely means one of them is in the (1) wagons. (T-Bone.) My reads suggest Gorilla is the other, though VCA would suggest one of the people on the two (3) wagons is the last scum. (Do keep in mind, VCA is not 100% effective. It's, like, 90% effective and is the most efficient method of scumhunting I have, but it's not going to be completely accurate.)
(C-Worl - 10 (RayFrost,Seraphim, SnakePlissken, MaxKojote,Pine,Lucresia,, Shift,[Moonstruck]tclawren,) L-3jindori
Pine - 5 (bristep123, ConSpiracy, Nachomamma8, Chronopie,Nero Cain)
Nobody Special - 2 (Lowell, implosion)
Chronopie - 2 (T-Bone, kr0b)
implosion - 1 (gorilla)
jindori - 1 (C-Worl)
Not voting - 3 (kr0b, MrZepher,Nobody Special,Kise)Slight typo, Mod--kr0b is listed as Not Voting and on Chronopie at the same time.)
Alright, now this makes sense: one scum on the (2) wagons (T-Bone), one scum in the remainder (Gorilla), and the rest of the scum unchanged from the last votecount.
You can see why I stopped analyzing the primary wagon, no? It and Pine are unchanged. The secondary action, however, tells an interesting story: three (1) voters, one of which is scum. (Gorilla.) two wagons of (3) voters, which contains AT LEAST one scum (T-Bone). Probably no more, as the rest of the votecount is unchanged and therefore neither is the scum distribution.The Mod wrote:C-Worl - 10 (RayFrost,Seraphim, SnakePlissken, MaxKojote, Pine,Lucresia,, Shift,[Moonstruck]tclawren,) L-3jindori
Pine - 5 (bristep123, ConSpiracy, Nachomamma8, Chronopie,Nero Cain)
Chronopie - 3 (T-Bone, kr0b,C-Worl)
Nobody Special - 1 (Lowell)
implosion - 1 (gorilla)
Lucresia - 1 (implosion)
Not voting - 3 (MrZepher,Nobody Special,Kise)
Guess what?
I need to eat.
Again.
(Something about mafia games and apetites. >_<)
I'll resume from votecount twelve.My academy.
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mastin2 The Second Coming
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(Whoah. Solid streak of town!) C-worl looks like he could have either two or three scum on him. Pine's unchanged. What has changed is that now there's an extra (1) wagon, which brings the number up to (4). There's definitely at least one scum in there; I'd wager two. Of course, there's still one scum in the (3) wagons. Heck, if I'm somehow wrong about there being two scum in the (1) wagons, it's possible there's two.The Mod wrote:C-Worl - 9 (RayFrost,Seraphim, SnakePlissken, MaxKojote, Lucresia,, Shift,[Moonstruck]tclawren,) L-4jindori
Pine - 5 (bristep123, ConSpiracy, Nachomamma8, Chronopie,Nero Cain)
Chronopie - 3 (T-Bone, kr0b,C-Worl)
tclawren - 1 (Lowell)
implosion - 1 (gorilla)
Lucresia - 1 (implosion)
kr0b - 1 (Pine)
Not voting - 3 (MrZepher,Nobody Special,Kise)
Skipping the next identical votecount.
With the growth in the Not Voting wagon, we now have one scum, guaranteed, but no more. (Gorilla.) Pine and C-worl are unchanged, but there's now scum in the two (2) wagons. (T-Bone.) And--of course--scum in the two (1) wagons as well, for diversity. (Pine.)C-Worl - 9 (RayFrost,Seraphim, SnakePlissken, Eldritch Lord, Lucresia,, Shift,[Moonstruck]tclawren,) L-4jindori
Pine - 5 (bristep123, ConSpiracy, Nachomamma8, Chronopie,Nero Cain)
Chronopie - 2 (T-Bone, kr0b)
tclawren - 2 (Lowell,C-Worl)
Lucresia - 1 (implosion)
kr0b - 1 (Pine)
Not voting - 4 (MrZepher,Nobody Special,Kise, gorilla)
Again, I'd like to emphasize how Zepher looks pretty town by this VCA. So does implosion, as well as kr0b/Charlie (which means I do NOT support the Charlie wagon!) People looking bad are ConSpiracy, Shift, and Chronopie. I can almost guarantee you that the third non-jindori-team scum is in those three. (Teams at this point are obviously {Pine, Jindori, Gorilla} and {*Third*, T-Bone, Nacho}. I just need to determine who among ConSpiracy, Shift, and Chronopie is scum.)
It's to the point where I'm almost willing to call Zepher confirmed-town. kr0b/Charlie, not yet, but they're not going to be lynched today; I can assure you of that.
Next one's identical, too.
Considering that Raud's an SK, it's not too large a stretch to say two scum on "Not Voting". Especially when combined with the Pine wagon to make a single (9) wagon, which you'd expect 3-4 scum in. (Nacho, Gorilla, Raud, possibly ConSpiracy.)The Mod wrote:C-Worl - 8 (RayFrost,Seraphim, SnakePlissken, Eldritch Lord, Lucresia,tclawren,, Chronopie) L-5jindori
Pine - 4 (bristep123, ConSpiracy, Nachomamma8,Nero Cain)
Chronopie - 2 (T-Bone, kr0b)
tclawren - 2 (Lowell,C-Worl)
SnakePlissken - 1 (Shift)
Lucresia - 1 (implosion)
kr0b - 1 (Pine)
Not voting - 5 (MrZepher,Nobody Special,Kise, gorilla,)RaudhrGarm
On C-worl, I'd expect to see two scum. There's Jindori, but there SHOULD be one more. (Chronopie?)
The smaller wagons are in this case the ones which look like they haven't changed: one scum on the two (2)s, one scum on thetwothree (1)s. (T-Bone and Pine, respectively.)
Of note, T-Bone on Chronopie day one is evidence of Bussing. There are two ideal times to bus:
-Day One.
-Mid to late-game, shortly before Lylo.
He bussed on day one, something which he promptly forgot about, until it gets closer to lylo, which causes him to resume the bussing against Chronopie. It's really condemning evidence against Chrono, creating a link between 'em.
'Course, I still need to check out the interactions from that time, see if it matches the theory I'm proposing: look at T-Bone's posts from that area, compared to the recent Chronopie attack.
Still, though. As bad as Chrono looks, he's just the main candidate of three to be the third on T-Bone's faction. While that is reason to lynch him, the fact that there are two other serious suspects leaves this too inconclusive for my tastes.
I'd still MUCH rather prefer to go for the confirmed-scum T-Bone. Or, heck, even Nacho, if there's support for a lynch on him.
This is concerning. I know, Raud is a SK and therefore not tied to any faction. But with "Not Voting" at (2) votes, it now means we have to combine it with the other (2) wagons: which leaves us with a single (6) wagon, in which you'd expect 1-2 scum. T-Bone is one, and Raud's another. Gorilla would make that single (6) wagon made up of half-scum, and that's quite frankly not what I'd expect.The Mod wrote:C-Worl - 9 (RayFrost,Seraphim, SnakePlissken, Eldritch Lord, Lucresia,tclawren,, Chronopie, MrZepher) L-4jindori
SnakePlissken - 4 (Shift,Kise,Nobody Special, ConSpiracy)
Pine - 3 (bristep123, Nachomamma8,Nero Cain)
Chronopie - 2 (T-Bone, kr0b)
tclawren - 2 (Lowell,C-Worl)
Lucresia - 1 (implosion)
kr0b - 1 (Pine)
Not voting - 2 (gorilla,)RaudhrGarm
Other than that, the minor wagons are the same: one scum in the (1) voters (Pine).
Pine still has one leftover scum (Nacho), but most of the scum have moved on to the primary two wagons:
One scum on Snake (Shift/ConSpiracy), two scum on C-worl (Chronopie, Jindori).
Arg. This makes no sense. Only ONE of Shift/ConSpiracy/Chronopie SHOULD be scum. Yet VCA is suggesting that Chrono and one of Shift/ConSpiracy are BOTH scum. >_<
Then again, (4) wagons--while normally containing one scum--don't always have scum, so I'd definitely lean Chronopie over the other two as being more suspicious.
...The eff? Two of three Not Voting being scum, I can see. (It's right there. ) All three? That boarderlines being impossible. ESPECIALLY if they're the same faction. Raud's an SK, so he doesn't count, but I've had Gorilla pegged as JINDORI'S partner this whole time--yet they're both unvoting, something tantamount to suicide for people looking to find connections. It seems so...wrong.The Mod wrote:C-Worl - 8 (RayFrost,Seraphim, SnakePlissken, Eldritch Lord, Lucresia,tclawren, Chronopie, MrZepher) L-5
SnakePlissken - 5 (Shift,Kise,Nobody Special, ConSpiracy, implosion)
Pine - 3 (bristep123, Nachomamma8,Nero Cain)
Chronopie - 2 (T-Bone, kr0b)
tclawren - 2 (Lowell,C-Worl)
kr0b - 1 (Pine)
Not voting - 3 (gorilla,)RaudhrGarm,jindori
I'll need to ponder Gorilla later. Right now, the wolves are down one; the other team is not. So, I can save Wolf Hunting for later. ('Sides, I've still got Pine to lynch if I wanted a Wolf Lynch that badly.)
ANYWAY, T-Bone's scum in the (2) voters. This confirms kr0b as being pretty much guaranteed town, along with kr0b's replacement, Charlie. (Yes. This means,All On The Charlie Wagon)Needto get off!
Pretty much nothing else has changed. Chrono still looks like scum on C-worl (though I'm a bit concerned that on a wagon of 8, he's the ONLY one who looks like scum on C-worl), and Nacho's scum hanging far too long on the Pine wagon. (Why would he need to leave? He's not bussing; he's trying to lynch the opposite team.)
Snake still looks like he has one scum. Possibly to be two, but extremely doubtful, considering I'm not even sold on there being one scum.
Anyway, posting this so my bolded request isn't in the middle of a post. Will resume from 19.My academy.
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mastin2 The Second Coming
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...
I hate this.
I'm hungry.
AGAIN.
Seriously, why is it that Mafia works up my apetite? (Maybe it's too much exercise for my brain? )My academy.
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mastin2 The Second Coming
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Alright. I've eaten. That ought to hold me at least 'til I post my next section of the VCA.
...This makes so much sense, this votecount seems so perfect, compared to the last one messing up my entire reads, that I'm willing to accept the last one was a fluke.The Mod wrote:C-Worl - 8 (RayFrost,Seraphim, SnakePlissken, Eldritch Lord, Lucresia,tclawren, Chronopie, MrZepher) L-5
SnakePlissken - 6 (Shift,Kise,Nobody Special, ConSpiracy, implosion, gorilla)
Pine - 2 (bristep123, Nachomamma8)
Chronopie - 2 (T-Bone, kr0b)
tclawren - 2 (Lowell,C-Worl)
kr0b - 1 (Pine)
Not voting - 3 ()RaudhrGarm,jindori, Nero Cain
First of all, Chrono's as good as confirmed scum, 'cause C-worl NEEDS scum on it, and he's really the only person it can be. Zepher (who I thought was town) MIGHT be scum because of this, too. But IF Zepher's scum, it'd have to be of the opposite faction as Chrono, since two scum on the same team wouldn't vote right next to each other.
Second off, Gorilla joining the Snake wagon means there's our one scum. It's possible to have two, but at this stage, I doubt it.
Next, there are three (2) wagons, meaning 2 scum there, too. That's T-Bone and Nacho, if you couldn't tell. Furthermore, if you combine the three (2) wagons into a single (6) wagon, AND THEN combine THAT with the OTHER (6) wagon, you get L-1. And on a wagon of 12, you'd expect 3-4 scum, which fits my reads perfectly.
Pine is, of course, scum remaining in the low-concentration-zone.
This is concerning for gorilla-jindori. Jindori's vote is right next to Gorilla's. Again. (Was also this way in the Not Voting.) C-worl wagon remains unchanged, believe it or not: it should have two scum on it.C-Worl - 9 (RayFrost,Seraphim, SnakePlissken, Eldritch Lord, Lucresia,tclawren, Chronopie, MrZepher,Lowell) L-4
SnakePlissken - 7 (Shift,Kise,Nobody Special, ConSpiracy, implosion, gorilla,)jindori
Pine - 2 (Powerrox93, Nachomamma8)
Chronopie - 2 (T-Bone, kr0b)
tclawren - 1 (C-Worl)
kr0b - 1 (Pine)
Not voting - 2 ()RaudhrGarm, Nero Cain
Scumz elsewhere remain the same. Pine for the (1)s, Nacho for the (2)s.
C-Worl - 12.5(RayFrost,Seraphim, SnakePlissken, Eldritch Lord, Lucresia,tclawren, Chronopie, MrZepher,Lowell, Nachomamma8,Powerrox93, C-Worl,Pine) L-1
SnakePlissken - 7 (Shift,Kise,Nobody Special, ConSpiracy, implosion, gorilla,)jindori
Chronopie - 2 (T-Bone, kr0b)
tclawren - 1 (Pine)
Not voting - 2 ()RaudhrGarm, Nero Cain
Honorary member, Pine. You now expect 3-4 scum on this wagon. Nacho, Pine, and Chrono, possibly Zepher. Pine's officially the scum in the (1)s, even though he's an honorary member of the pseudo-C-worl lynchwagon. T-Bone is the scum from his scumteam which won't hop onto the wagon, as they won't risk all of their members on a single wagon. Same presumably applies for Snake and the other scumteam, since Pine can't jump on Snake without exposing their entire team to intense scrutiny. (If my theory's correct, anyway.) He can, however, go onto C-worl, but I think I found the true reason he didn't hammer:
-He was afraid it'd make him scummy.
-He wanted town-points for NOT hammering. (Related.)
It's also possible if I'm wrong about Gorilla that he didn't want to risk exposing two members of his team on a single wagon, preferring they be spread out across three wagons as to minimalize the chance of catching all three. (If true, this'd mean Zepher's the third wolf, not Gorilla.)
Things are beginning to make sense. Gorilla/Zepher for the third wolf looks like it can work. Chronopie (mainly), POSSIBLY Shift/Singer or ConSpiracy as the third on the other team.
Jindori and Pine confirmed wolves, T-Bone and Nacho confirmed as on the other team.
I'm closing in on the truth, mesthinks.
Ironic, that Pine votes with C-worl. Anyway, still the same number of scum on C-worl (minus Pine): 2-3. Chrono, Nacho, and Zepher. (Chrono and Nacho on the same team, Zepher NOT on the same team.) This is post-jindori-claim, obviously. T-Bone JUMPS at the chance to do some legitimate scum-hunting and eliminate a member of his rival scumteam. Pine desperately tries to save Jindori, too, to the point where he's willing to work with his apparent mortal enemy, C-worl!The Mod wrote:C-Worl - 11 (RayFrost,Seraphim, SnakePlissken, Eldritch Lord, Lucresia, Chronopie, MrZepher,Lowell, Nachomamma8,Powerrox93) L-3
SnakePlissken - 7 (Shift,Kise,Nobody Special, ConSpiracy, implosion, gorilla,)jindori
jindori - 3 (tclawren, T-Bone,)RaudhrGarm
tclawren - 2 (C-Worl, Pine)
Chronopie - 1 (kr0b)
Not voting - 1 (Nero Cain)
Posting. Will resume from 23.My academy.
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mastin2 The Second Coming
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I was gonna say this, too, once I got done with the VCA. Looks like you beat me to it, though.Chronopie wrote:UNVOTE: TC
If there are only two neighbours (one flipped town), it seems highly unlikely, as this is a two team game, that the other neighbour is scum. Three neighbours, and it may have been alot more plausible.
(Shame that I'm beginning to think you're scum.)My academy.
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Charlie - 3 (T-Bone, Kise, Powerrox93)
^Gonna jump ahead briefly and tell you right now that T-Bone attacking Chronopie, but choosing Charlie as the lynch over Chrono furthers the TBone-Chronopie link. Also, this is more reason Powerrox is pretty much confirmed town. VCA is suggesting a lot of the things my reads already were:
Zepher's not aligned with T-Bone and Nacho, Charlie is close to confirmed-town, and even tclaw is confirmed town. Especially with the claim. Additionally,
Chronopie - 3 (gorilla, MrZepher, tclawren)
^If Chrono's scum, it'd HAVE to be WITH T-Bone, not against T-Bone, since both my third-wolf suspects (Gorilla, Zepher) are on this Chrono wagon.
Sadly, I'm hungry...again...but when I grab another quite bite to eat, I'll resume.My academy.
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For the record: We shouldn't lynch Chronopie today. True. He's possible scum. And is my current pick as of this writing for the third member of the other team.
But he's not guaranteed scum. T-Bone today, Nacho tomorrow, Pine the day after that, and from there, we've got plenty of mislynches to find the final member of both teams. That's how things are going down.
I've seen it too many times.
People know some scum, but don't pursue them actively, simply because they want to nail the entire scumteam first, so hunt down loose ends.
Soon, they're in (or past) lylo, still having not found the rest of the scum due to mislynches they thought might have been the final member but weren't.
Instead of going on and immediately lynching their first choice for scum, they went for second, third, fourth, sometimes even FIFTH choices for scum, and lost the game because of it. (ESPECIALLY if they were wrong about their primary scum suspects, which all of the mislynches were making connections to.)
No. I'm not lynching Chronopie, a possible scum. Who's fourth or fifth on my scum list right now.
I AM lynching T-Bone, who is # 1 on my suspect list. And WHEN he flips scum, I'm going after Nacho, his buddy. And THEN I'll switch over to the Werewolves and lynch Pine. Only after I've eliminated those I KNOW to be scum will I be gunning for people who are POSSIBLE scum.
(That said, I still am going to be trying to FIND the final scum on both teams, which is what my VCA is doing. I'm simply not going to risk LYNCHING them until I've already lynched my # 1-3 suspects, T-Bone, Nacho, and Pine.)
I've got C-worl. I also seem to recall someone saying they'd go for T-Bone if there was a wagon. Well, guess what? There's a wagon, now.
We can do this: we can lynch scum today. If it's T-Bone instead of Chronopie, I can guarantee you a scumflip.My academy.
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And I'm back.
This effectively clears kr0b of being scum; Jindori takes care of the scum in the three (1) wagons. Pine's still scum, so desperate to save Jindori that he'd rather go along with his scumread--C-worl--than let Jindori go down without a fight. (Effectively, if Jindori wouldn't fight to live, he would fight for Jindori to live and rely on the wifom of "no scum'd be that stupid!" Sounds like a Pine-scum move to me.)The Mod wrote:C-Worl - 9 (RayFrost,Seraphim, SnakePlissken, Lucresia, Chronopie, MrZepher,Lowell, Nachomamma8,Eldritch Lord) L-4
SnakePlissken - 6 (Shift,Kise,Nobody Special, ConSpiracy, implosion, gorilla)
jindori - 4 (tclawren, T-Bone,,RaudhrGarmPowerrox93)
tclawren - 2 (C-Worl, Pine)
Chronopie - 1 (kr0b)
T-Bone - 1 (jindori)
Not voting - 1 (Nero Cain)
2-3 scum on C-worl, still: Nacho, Chrono, and Zepher? Nacho for sure, but not for sure on the other two. It'd certainly make sense, though.
T-Bone's the scum on Jindori. This takes care of 5-7 of the scum, leaving 0-2 on the Snake wagon.
Personally, it'd make sense for two scum on C-worl and one on Snake, suggesting Gorilla scum, but I'm not as positive on this as I once was.
I'd expect one scum in the (1) voters, but apparently, there isn't any. There are, however, two (5) wagons: combined, that's a single (10) wagon, which needs 2-3 scum. C-worl has the same 2-3 scum as well. Leaving 1-3 scum left between the (1)s, and the (2).C-Worl - 9 (RayFrost,Seraphim, SnakePlissken, Lucresia, Chronopie, MrZepher,Lowell, Nachomamma8,Eldritch Lord) L-4
SnakePlissken - 5 (Shift,Kise,Nobody Special, ConSpiracy, implosion)
jindori - 5 (tclawren, T-Bone,,RaudhrGarmPowerrox93, gorilla)
T-Bone - 2 (, Pine)jindori
Chronopie - 1 (kr0b)
tclawren - 1 (C-Worl)
Not voting - 1 (Nero Cain)
Nacho's one scum on C-worl. Chrono and Zepher are still the possible others.
Jindori has T-Bone on it, and also has (possibly) Gorilla as scum, taking care of the minimum two. If there's a third in the two (5) wagons (which to me most likely would mean only two scum in the C-worl wagon), then it'd have to be the Snake wagon, where it could be one of--BUT NO MORE THAN ONE OF--{Shift, ConSpiracy, implosion}, heavily leaning towards one of the former two and not the latter one.
This of course leaves Jindori as confirmed scum off the wagon, taking care of the 1 minimum, but I personally believe that Pine fits perfectly as scum as well, since I find it hard to believe 6 of the 7 scum are on the lead-three wagons. 5, definitely; I can see that. 6 just seems like too many cards being put on the table, leaving nothing in reserve.
Also: T-Bone is not a wolf.
1-2 scum voting by this point is what I'd expect. (((23-16)/23)*6 = 1.8somethingoranother, which is 1 or two, more likely, two.) One of them being the SK (and the lead wagon being on scum) means that I can MAYBE see an extra scum in there.Pine - 3 (T-Bone,C-Worl,, ConSpiracy)RaudhrGarm)
C-Worl - 2 (Eldritch Lord
T-Bone - 1 (Pine)
tclawren - 1 (Nero Cain)
Still, this is evidence for T-Bone being scum, and ConSpiracy to NOT be.
2-3 scum voting. Same people: T-Bone, Pine, and of course, Garm.Pine - 3 (T-Bone,C-Worl,, ConSpiracy, Pine)RaudhrGarm)
C-Worl - 3 (Eldritch Lord
tclawren - 2 (Nero Cain, Lowell)
RayFrost - 1 (Kise)
Still 2-3, actually. This is slight evidence against Gorilla being scum, though considering one of the scum voting is the SK, I'm willing to accept a slight rule-bend in the VCA (as VCA is never 100% accurate.)C-Worl - 4 (Eldritch Lord, ConSpiracy, Pine,RayFrost)
Pine - 3 (T-Bone,C-Worl,RaudhrGarm)
tclawren - 2 (Nero Cain, Lowell)
RayFrost - 2 (Kise, gorilla)
It's the same people. ConSpiracy is looking pretty town, T-Bone is confirmed scum, Pine's confirmed scum, and Gorilla could be scum.
While the positions might have changed,C-Worl - 4 (Eldritch Lord, ConSpiracy, Pine, Reckamonic)
Pine - 3 (T-Bone, C-Worl, RaudhrGarm)
Reckamonic - 3 (Kise, gorilla, Nero Cain)
tclawren - 1 (Lowell)
The scum are still the same.
I don't even need to analyze this votecount, really. It pretty much speaks for itself, showing who the scum are without my aid. Pine on C-worl, T-Bone on Pine, possibly Gorilla on Reckamonic. (And Garm on Pine, too.)
Now there's 3-4 (albeit only just: 3.1 is a heck of a lot to round up to four. ) scum voting. With dueling wagons of 4 each, you pretty much need scum--I'd say 1-2 MINIMUM--on them. This is concerning, since I only see one--Pine. Of course, this still leaves T-Bone and Raud as scum, so we have our three scum voting at this stage in the game.Reckamonic - 4 (Kise,Nero Cain, SnakePlissken, Lucresia), ConSpiracy, Pine,
C-Worl - 4 (Eldritch LordReckamonic)
Pine - 3 (T-Bone,C-Worl,)RaudhrGarm)
tclawren - 1 (Lowell
Still 3-4 scum. (3.6somethingoranother) A bit concerning how it should be getting closer to 4, yet I only see the same 3. Pine on C-worl, Garm on the (3)s (there should be at least one, but it's possible to have two...), and T-Bone on Pine. With none on the (1)s.C-Worl - 4 (Eldritch Lord, ConSpiracy, Pine,Reckamonic)
Reckamonic - 3 (Nero Cain, SnakePlissken, Lucresia)
SnakePlissken - 3 (implosion,,RaudhrGarmKise)
Pine - 2 (T-Bone,C-Worl)
tclawren - 1 (Lowell)
Kise - 1 (tclawren)
Okay, there really should be four scum voting at this point; the numbers said 3.9. Which is concerning, since I STILL see only the same three. THIS evidence points to there needing to be another, which could only be ConSpiracy. :/ (Or implosion. But implosion looked better earlier.)SnakePlissken - 4 (implosion,,RaudhrGarmKise, T-Bone)
Reckamonic - 3(Nero Cain, SnakePlissken, Lucresia), Pine,
tclawren - 3 (LowellC-Worl),
gorilla - 2 (tclawrenEldritch Lord)
Kise - 1 (Nobody Special)
Nobody Special - 1 (ConSpiracy)
C-Worl - 1 (Reckamonic)
And by now, enough people have logged in and placed votes where staying off of a wagon is a choice, hence, Not Voting is a wagon as of now. 2 scum in there. Nacho's one. Chronopie/Shift look like the other.SnakePlissken - 6 (implosion,,RaudhrGarmKise, T-Bone, gorilla, MrZepher)
Reckamonic - 3 (Nero Cain, SnakePlissken, Lucresia), Pine,
tclawren - 3 (LowellC-Worl)
gorilla - 2 (tclawren,Eldritch Lord)
Nobody Special - 2 (ConSpiracy,Reckamonic)
Kise - 1 (Nobody Special)
Not voting - 6 (Charlie, Nachomamma8, Chronopie, Shift,Seraphim,Powerrox93)
When combined with the other (6) wagon, you get 12/12 needed, an effective lynch. What does this mean? 2-4 scum, of course! Nacho and Chrono/Shift I mentioned. The other wagon (the 6) has AT LEAST 1, if not 2 scum. T-Bone and Garm take care of this.
...Which is concerning, considering both Zepher and Gorilla (my two reads for the third wolf) are both on there. This MIGHT be handwavable by Garm being the SK, though.
Anyway, there's one scum on the two (3) wagons, which combined make a single (6) wagon. This is obviously Pine, of course. Since there are six scum alive at this point, and I just took care of 4-5 of 'em in the two six wagons, Pine manages to finish off the scum, so I'm inclined to believe there's actually three scum on Snake by this point, even though it seems like a lot.
Either that, or ConSpiracy is somehow a wolf. :/
Anyway, have to leave again. Celebrating a relative's birthday. Will resume from 34.My academy.
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mastin2 The Second Coming
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Also, for the record?
I'm still ignoring Pine and T-Bone until I finish what I'm doing.
"When you finish your VCA?"
Nope. When I finish what follows my VCA:
Cases.
Three of 'em.
And unlike SOME people, whose cases seem to be made up entirely of ISOs (*coughcougheveryonesuspiciousofchronopiecoughcough*), I use ISOs to FINISH my cases. That's right--
I do everything in context.
But oh. That's not all I do. I track down every single reference, every single connection, to the players I'm making a case against. And I will show you, quite conclusively, EXACTLY why they are scum.
That's four reads of the ENTIRE game. (Original readthrough [which I finished just before my vote] plus three cases.) When I finish with it, you'll be begging the mod for double-voting powers on T-Bone.
'Cause I am far from the worthless player these people are trying to make me out to be. To put it in simplest terms,
I'm just warming up.
(Never let it be said that I don't put enough time into a game. I probably put more time into a single in-Game day than lots of people put into the entire GAME. )My academy.
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mastin2 The Second Coming
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Hate to tell you guys, but Charlie's not completely wrong, here. Just a little mistaken.Charlie wrote:Verbrosity is scummy.
Conciceness is pro town.
Verbosity is anti-town. Unfortunately, I am one of the most verbose players on the site; everyone knows nobody Walls like I do. It's not something I'm exactly proud of; it's part of who I am. And even though I attempt to be concise (which I know is pro-town), I am really, REALLY bad at it.
It's not "scummy". It's not a scum-tell. It's anti-town, in that if you wall too much, it's not exactly helpful for the town. So, Charlie--while wrong in thinking it's scummy--was at least on the right thought pattern.
(Please don't ask me to explain the difference between Scummy, Scum-Tells, and Anti-Town. Just realize that the three are NOT one and the same. Everyone in every game does something scummy, some players are always anti-town, etc.)
To those doubting Charlie is scum:
Tell me, who makes sense as a buddy for Charlie?
If you think Charlie's scum, what team is Charlie on?
Who are his buddies?
Can you answer that?
Can you tell me who Charlie's one or two (depending on which team) buddies have been?
...No?
...Yeah, I thought not.
Simply put, Charlie's town because he makes no freakin' sense as being scum on EITHER team.
Bad-town, ironically anti-town, perhaps quite scummy town...
...But town, nonetheless.
Because scummy != scum. C-worl has been scummy, but is pretty much confirmed town. Tclaw was wagoned to L-1 for being scummy, yet is pretty much confirmed town. Kise and Reckamonic have both had wagons on 'em 'cause they've both done scummy things, but they're still pretty much confirmed town.Zepher wrote:If somebody is scummy, and a good portion of people agree with that, then how is it helpful to the town to try to push for a different wagon?
Chronopie has been scummy. Yes. Is he scum? ...Possibly. But not probably. Sure, he's, like, my # 4 suspect or so. Which, indeed, means that he's more likely scum than most of the players alive.
...But he's not even close to likely enough for me to want him dead above all others. Above T-Bone, above Nacho, above Pine. All three of those I'd rather have dead before Chronopie.
It's helpful to push another wagon, because Chronopie is a weak wagon, full of weak suspicions, full of people semi-agreeing with people who made a half-case against Chronopie, a case they semi-knew wasn't too strong in the first place.
Charlie's even worse that way.
It's helpful to push another wagon, because this other wagon (T-Bone) is actually on scum.
Charlie's a bit of an idiot, but he's idiot-town.
Chrono's possible scum, but not extremely probable scum.
Neither should be the lynch, today.
tclawren - 3 (implosion, ConSpiracy, Reckamonic)
^Implosion has posted that he's preoccupied, but there's no excuses from these other two. Chronopie was correct when he mentioned in a game with two factions, having a two-person neighborhood means both neighbors are town. I've even seen it in previous Large Normal games, so can back this up. THIS WAGON NEEDS TO DIE, YESTERDAY!
Chronopie - 3 (gorilla, MrZepher, tclawren)
^I will not support a lynch on Chronopie. These votes pretty much confirm Chronopie can't be a Werewolf, since Gorilla AND Zepher (both Werewolf suspects) are on him. My guess is that they're legitimately scumhunting and honestly think that Chronopie is a member of the other scum faction. Which--while possible--is not likely enough for me to support it.
Charlie - 3 (T-Bone, Kise, Powerrox93)
^Seriously. There's no town motivation in this wagon. Charlie might be bad town, but he's still town. This is painful to anyone who reads the interactions Charlie has with other people. I remember my read on Charlie, now. I remember what I saw in him:
I saw town.
That was my strong read. It wasn't a strong scumread. No, it was one of my strongest town-reads. Not very helpful town, admittedly, but still town, nonetheless.
mastin2 - 2 (Charlie, Pine)
^Charlie's an idiot, and Pine's scum.
T-Bone - 2 (mastin2, C-Worl)
^Winning wagon, here.
MrZepher - 1 (Nachomamma8)
^My guess is that Nacho's legitimately scumhunting here and thinks that Zepher is a werewolf.
Not voting - 2 (singersigner, Chronopie)
^These people need a vote.
Now, if you don't mind, I've got work to do.My academy.
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mastin2 The Second Coming
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*EditBWOP:Mastin wrote:To those doubting Charlie is scum:
I switched thought processes mid-sentence from "To those doubting Charlie's town"
to "To those thinking Charlie's scum".
Either works, but I obviously did not mean "To those doubting Charlie is scum".My academy.
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2. ConSpiracy <-- ?
4. Charlie * kr0b <--Town.
5. mastin2 Lowell <--Town, of course.
7. Reckamonic RayFrost <--Town.
10. gorilla ** <-- ?
11. T-Bone <--Scum.
12. Nachomamma8 ** <--Scum.
13. Pine <--Scum.
15. Chronopie ** <-- ?
16. Kise * <--Town.
17. singersigner Shift <-- ?
18. implosion <-- ? (Looks town.)
19. C-Worl <--Town.
20. MrZepher ** <-- ?
23. tclawren <--Town.
24. Powerrox93 bristep123 <--Town.
From here-on out, my VCAs are going to have this reflected, with Charlie's name now underlined. For quick reference, the list of suspects:
2. ConSpiracy <-- ? (Other?)
10. gorilla ** <-- ? (Wolf.)
11. T-Bone <--Scum. (Other.)
12. Nachomamma8 ** <--Scum. (Other.)
13. Pine <--Scum. (Wolf.)
15. Chronopie ** <-- ? (Other)
17. singersigner Shift <-- ? (Other?)
20. MrZepher ** <-- ? (Wolf)
Our five scum are in here. If Zepher/Gorilla are scum, then 1: it's Wolf-scum, and 2: the other is confirmed-town.
If Chronopie is scum, 1: he is NOT a wolf. 2: Singer and ConSpiracy are both not members of the other faction (which therefore makes them very probably town).
Still, though, of these eight names, I have only three I would like to see lynched. I don't think I even need to tell you which three.
T-Bone
Nachomamma8
Pine
In that order.My academy.
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mastin2 The Second Coming
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Whoah. Both main wagons have grown by one! 14/12 needed for a lynch means that there's 4-5 scum, two on each minimum. This is Nacho and Chrono/Shift on Not Voting, and T-Bone and Raud on Snake. Considering Raud's the SK, that makes me think we have 5 scum, and therefore, the fifth is Gorilla/Zepher.The Mod wrote:SnakePlissken - 7 (implosion,,RaudhrGarmKise, T-Bone, gorilla, MrZepher,Eldritch Lord), Pine,
tclawren - 3 (LowellC-Worl)
Reckamonic - 2 (Nero Cain, SnakePlissken)
Nobody Special - 2 (ConSpiracy,Reckamonic))
gorilla - 1 (tclawren
Kise - 1 (Nobody Special)
Not voting - 7 (Charlie, Nachomamma8, Chronopie, Shift,Seraphim,Powerrox93,Lucresia)
This leaves 1-2 scum off. Pine's that one, in my opinion.
Nacho's scum on the 6 wagon, with a possible second. (Shift.) Pine'sscum on the two (2) wagons. 2-3/6. This--of course--means that the remaining three are on Snake at this point: T-Bone, Garm, and Gorilla/Zepher.SnakePlissken - 8 (implosion,,RaudhrGarmKise, T-Bone, gorilla, MrZepher,Eldritch Lord,C-Worl) L-4
Nobody Special - 3 (ConSpiracy,Reckamonic, Chronopie)
tclawren - 2 (Lowell, Pine)
Reckamonic - 2 (Nero Cain, SnakePlissken)
gorilla - 1 (tclawren)
Kise - 1 (Nobody Special)
Not voting - 6 (Charlie, Nachomamma8, Shift,Seraphim,Powerrox93,Lucresia)
If there's a sixth (as in, Shift isn't scum), then they'd be on the NS wagon: ConSpiracy or Chronopie.
Only thing changed is that implosion has moved from Snake to NS. Other than that, this wagon is identical, so therefore, my analysis is the same.SnakePlissken - 7 (RaudhrGarm, Kise, T-Bone, gorilla, MrZepher, Eldritch Lord, C-Worl) L-5
Nobody Special - 4 (ConSpiracy, Reckamonic, Chronopie, implosion)
tclawren - 2 (Lowell, Pine)
Reckamonic - 2 (Nero Cain, SnakePlissken)
gorilla - 1 (tclawren)
Kise - 1 (Nobody Special)
Not voting - 6 (Charlie, Nachomamma8, Shift, Seraphim, Powerrox93, Lucresia)
This is the peak of the NS counter-wagon. By this point, it looks like it has one scum on it, but there's no guarantee--the larger Not Voting wagon looks like it needs two, and if it has two, then that leaves no room to spare. (Since there's one scum in the three (1) voters--Pine--I have only five scum left. The number on Snake hasn't changed--three--which leaves me with two scum left. Nacho's one of them, leaving me with only one scum left to find...)SnakePlissken - 8 (,RaudhrGarmKise, T-Bone, gorilla, MrZepher,C-Worl,Lowell, Nero Cain) L-4
Nobody Special - 5 (ConSpiracy,Reckamonic, Chronopie, implosion,tclawren)
tclawren - 1 (Pine)
Reckamonic - 1 (SnakePlissken))
Kise - 1 (Nobody Special
Not voting - 7 (Charlie, Nachomamma8, Shift,Seraphim,Powerrox93,Lucresia, Eldritch Lord)
If the last scum is on the Not Voting wagon, it's Shift (now singersigner). Otherwise, it'd be Chrono/ConSpiracy. (Funny, how often I have to choose between those two...)
The next votecount is identical, and the one after that is almost-so, only...
Now the NS counterwagon has lost its steam.SnakePlissken - 8 (,RaudhrGarmKise, T-Bone, gorilla, MrZepher,C-Worl,Lowell, Nero Cain) L-4
Nobody Special - 4 (ConSpiracy, Chronopie, implosion,tclawren), Pine)
C-Worl - 2 (Reckamonic
Reckamonic - 1 (SnakePlissken)
Kise - 1 (Nobody Special)
Not voting - 7 (Charlie, Nachomamma8, singersigner,Seraphim,Powerrox93,quadz08, Eldritch Lord)
Still one/two scum on Not Voting, zero/one scum on NS, three scum on Snake, and remaining one scum on the smaller wagons. (Funny, it seems like Pine's been on smaller wagons for nearly the entire game.)
And suddenly (whoah, four votes between VCs!), we have the lynch. There's now 0-1 scum Not Voting, due to the decreased number. There's still 1-2 scum on the smaller wagons, but the main wagon has 4 scum on it. This suggests ConSpiracy is town. Both Nacho and T-Bone are on the wagon, so not all three scum from that faction are going to be on there. It's POSSIBLE that ConSpiracy COULD be a Wolf, but extremely doubtful. I also find it hard to believe 5/6 scum in the game would risk being on the same wagon. So--while Snake was scum-driven--I've already found the four. (T-Bone, Nacho, Garm, Zepher/Gorilla.)SnakePlissken - 12 (,RaudhrGarmKise, T-Bone, gorilla, MrZepher,C-Worl,Lowell, Nero Cain, ConSpiracy,tclawren, Nachomamma8,Eldritch Lord)
Nobody Special - 2 (Chronopie, implosion)
C-Worl - 2 (Reckamonic, Pine)
Reckamonic - 1 (SnakePlissken)
Kise - 1 (Nobody Special)
Not voting - 5 (Charlie, singersigner,Seraphim,Powerrox93,quadz08)
That's two scum off the wagon. Pine's one of them. {Singer, Chrono, implosion} contains one scum, and I don't think it's implosion.
This is a very telling votecount, because it creates those strong connections.
Posting. I'll start the next one from 2.2.My academy.
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Don't worry, Reckamonic. I won't keep it up forever. Just until I get the scum lynched.
(Switching your vote from confirmed town to T-Bone who's scum is a great way to start!)My academy.
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mastin2 The Second Coming
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Just getting warmed up.tclawren wrote:Are you almost done Mastin? You got your point across ages ago.
Don't worry.
When I'm done, I'll say as much.
I'll finish the VCA. I'll compile all of my cases. (Mercifully, since my cases are ten times longer than my VCA, I DO put 'em in spoiler tags so reading 'em is optional. ) I'll give a summary of the cases, for easy reading. I'll compile my notes, give conclusions, and stick to it after that. And then I'll be done with my walling this game. Presuming I don't have to defend myself as being a legitimate scumhunter. (Which I apparently will have to do, since you people are beginning to buy the BS Pine and T-Bone are spewing which has no merit in actual fact. If it were just my scumreads, then I'd ignore it. But if people begin to believe what my scumreads are saying about me when it's utterly false, then I am forced to defend against their baseless accusations.)
Which, as I mentioned, means I'm effectively only warmed up on the game. But, oh, trust me: when I finish, it'll be spectacular. I'll have shown you exactly how I am not to be underestimated as a scumhunter, how I am not just some mediocre anti-town player: while annoying, I'm going to be someone who actually gets *beep* done.
Admit it:
Me coming in might have worsened the problem, but it didn't create it. I merely amplified the apathy you were already experiencing; the lethargic feeling in the air is most potent. (I know the feeling all too well, having suffered from it far too many times, myself.)
Not to me.
No, I actually care this game. I'm actually going to win, not let myself be steamrolled by the scum taking advantage of lazy-town.
Bear with me for a while. My method does take time. And effort. But the end result? Success.
Unvote, Vote: T-Bone.
^Put that in all of your posts. 'Cause if you don't do it now, you're going to regret it later.
(...All that said, I've had a long day. I'll be getting time into the game later tonight, but it'll be another hour or so before then.)My academy.
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Just did the liberty of checking how many votecounts I have left:
10 for day two, 12 for day three.
This'll take longer than I would prefer, of course, but it needs to be done. I need to finish this!
1-2 scum voting at this point. This is evidence against ConSpiracy being scum. The reason as to why is quite obvious--since Pine's scum, and Garm's scum, there's no more scum who should be voting!The Mod wrote:Kise - 2 (Pine,)RaudhrGarm
RaudhrGarm - 2 (tclawren, Reckamonic)
Pine - 1 (ConSpiracy)
tclawren - 1 (Kise)
Unchanged from before, this is 1-2 scum. Pine's one, so there's room for ConSpiracy to be scum, but he doesn't have to be.RaudhrGarm - 2 (tclawren, Reckamonic),
tclawren - 2 (KiseLowell)
Kise - 1 (Pine)
Pine - 1 (ConSpiracy)
Should be 3-4 at this point. Yet alarmingly, the only people here it COULD be are Pine and ConSpiracy. :/The Mod wrote:tclawren - 3 (Kise,Lowell, Eldritch Lord)
RaudhrGarm - 2 (tclawren, Reckamonic)
ConSpiracy - 2 (quadz08,Powerrox93)
Kise - 1 (Pine)
Pine - 1 (ConSpiracy)
Reckamonic - 1 (C-Worl)
Enough people are present by this stage that Not Voting has become its own wagon: a wagon which is 7/10, which of course means 1-3 scum. Alarmingly, a large number of my scumreads are in here. I know T-Bone's scum, and one of Zepher/Gorilla has to be the final Wolf, though, so we've met the minimum without exceeding the maximum.RaudhrGarm - 5 (tclawren, Reckamonic, C-Worl, ConSpiracy, Nachomamma8)
tclawren - 4 (Kise,Lowell, Eldritch Lord, singersigner)
ConSpiracy - 1 (Powerrox93)
Kise - 1 (Pine)
Pine - 1 ()RaudhrGarm
Not voting - 7 (Charlie, gorilla, T-Bone, Chronopie, implosion, MrZepher,quadz08)
Also, this votecount is evidence that IF ConSpiracy is scum, then he's a Wolf, since he's voting right next to Nacho, who's the scum on this wagon. Essentially, there's 1-2 scum there.
On tclaw, there's also 0-1 scum, due to the smaller nature of that wagon.
Combined, that's 2-6 of our scum. I'd personally think 2/2/0, 2/1/1, or 3/1/0 are the most likely combinations, since I know there's one scum not in any of the three--Garm--and have a strong suspicion there's another scum not on there, either. *coughcoughPinecoughcough*
Oh, look, situation's reversed! 0-1 scum in Not Voting, 1-2 scum on Tclaw, and 1-3 scum on Garm, with the remaining scum off! T-Bone and Nacho are both confirmed scum on Garm, taking care of 2. It's possible there's a third, but I'm not positive. The fact that Garm's on Tclaw takes care of 1 scum, there, too. We're up to half. Pine makes it four.RaudhrGarm - 7 (tclawren, Reckamonic, C-Worl, ConSpiracy, Nachomamma8, gorilla, T-Bone) L-3
tclawren - 5 (Kise,Lowell, Eldritch Lord, singersigner,)RaudhrGarm
ConSpiracy - 1 (Powerrox93)
Kise - 1 (Pine)
Powerrox93 - 1 (implosion)
Not voting - 4 (Charlie, Chronopie, MrZepher,quadz08)
-I'm leaning towards it being ConSpiracy/Gorilla as scum. The reason why is simple: the wolves would want one on the wagon, I'd think, and they both fit the bill. That'd make it 5/6.
-This'd make either singer or Chrono the last member of the other faction we need to track down.
In other words, I'm closing in on the scum. One final analysis of all this will eventually determine the end result. (Oh, boy. I'm going to have LOADS of fun reading through my own iso... )
This, however, suggests otherwise. On Garm, you'd expect 2-4, now, sure, but if I'm right, that'd mean 4/5 scum risked their lives on a single wagon. This MIGHT be justified by the nature of the wagon--on a known SK which means they MUST be getting townpoints for being on the wagon! Right? (No.)--so I'm not ruling it out. T-Bone, Nacho, and Pine are all confirmed scum on Garm. It's possible to have another, even if not probable.RaudhrGarm - 8 (tclawren, Reckamonic, C-Worl, ConSpiracy, Nachomamma8, gorilla, T-Bone, Pine) L-2
tclawren - 5 (Kise,Lowell, Eldritch Lord, singersigner,)RaudhrGarm
ConSpiracy - 1 (Powerrox93)
Powerrox93 - 1 (implosion)
Not voting - 4 (Charlie, Chronopie, MrZepher,quadz08)
Still, that's 2-3 scum off the wagon I need to find.
There's one on Tclaw--Garm, obviously--but there could be two. We're down to 0-1 at this point. I don't think either of the (1) voters are scum (to the point where if I research things some more, I might be willing to start underlining implosion's name), but it's possible there's one scum in the Not Voting.
So, that means that scum off the wagon CAN be
{Singer, Chrono/Zepher}. Not both of Chrono/Zepher; only one. And do keep in mind, that one of 'em IS guaranteed scum, if not both. Why? Garm has 3-4 scum on it; that leaves 2-3 off, and Garm's one of those off (obviously), so therefore--unless the wolves risked BOTH their remaining members on a single wagon--that means there's ONLY three scum and therefore there has to be 2 remaining off. This'd suggest Zepher's the third wolf, and that Chrono's town, and that Singer's the last on the other faction.
So,
IF only one wolf is on the Garm wagon at this time:
-Chrono's town.
-So is ConSpiracy.
-As is Gorilla, surprisingly enough.
-Singer is the last member of the other faction.
-Zepher is the third wolf.
HOWEVER,
IF they BOTH are on the Garm wagon...
-Zepher's confirmed town.
-Only ONE of {singer/Chrono} can be scum; the other's confirmed town.
This might seem complex, but it's really not when you think about it. Essentially, I might've just nailed the entire scumteams:
{T-Bone, Gorilla, Singersigner} and {Pine, Jindori, MrZepher} if the former scenario is true.
(Sadly, if the latter scenario is the case, then we've essentially gained...absolutely nothing. :/)
Posting, since I don't want my proposed scumteams to be lost in the middle of a post. Will resume from 2 # 8.My academy.
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In fact, it's a bit early, so I reserve the right to change it at a later date, but...
CALLING IT: The Scum Teams Are.
Jindori, Pine, And MrZepher as Werewolves;
T-Bone, Nachomamma8, and Singersigner as the other faction
This theory is beginning to make a lot more sense as I think about it more. While my findings might change when I finish my research, I think I'm on to something with this. (And if I'm right, Gorilla and Chrono get my official "sorry-I-suspected-you" apology. )My academy.
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...But the problem will stop when the walls magically vanish!C-worl wrote:He stated that he did not cause the problem but he has also admitted to adding to the problem with no intent to stop.
(Yes, this is me answering your request with a "Sure, why not?" I've got no reason to NOT spoiler them, 'cept when I find something super-important like my potentially-entire-scumteam VCA above.)
Will start spoiling you all (:P) in my next VCA.My academy.
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I'd still recommend anyone who still cares about this game even remotely to keep reading 'em, anyway, but spoilered for those people too lazy to look.
Spoiler: VCA, Starting From Votecount 8 of Day Two
...So, this is the theory as it stands:
If Both Wolves-Scum Were On The Garm Wagon (in the mentioned Votecount): {Jindori, Pine, Gorilla} looks like our scumteam (again), and {T-Bone, Nacho, Chronopie} looks like the other. (Again.)
If Only Pine-Wolf-Scum Was On The Garm Wagon (in said Votecount):
{Jindori, Pine, Zepher} is the wolf-team as I mentioned, and {T-Bone, Nacho, Singer} is the other scumteam.
In other words, this VCA is getting pretty accurate. In fact, I think I have the information I need to essentially win the game, right now. Through sheer process of VCA eliminating certain pairings, I have this game nialed down.
Spoiler: resuming the VCA
So, Sorry, Chronopie. While the team I just called would be incredibly awesome, the VCA has other ideas. At least it's given me a rather conclusive replacement team! (...Which you're unfortunately on.)
Spoiler: Barely worthy of tags
Better?My academy.
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mastin2 The Second Coming
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RaudhrGarm - 8 (tclawren, Reckamonic, C-Worl, ConSpiracy, Nachomamma8, gorilla, T-Bone, Pine) L-2
^This is the key wagon my duelling theories rely on. If both wolves were on, Pine's one and {ConSpiracy, Gorilla} is the other. Gorilla-scum is backed up by the VCA later on. Under this same theory, the remaining scum on the final team would therefore have to be one of {singer, Chrono}, and the VCA backs up it not being Singer, due to Nacho voting WITH Singer.
The rival theory--while more awesome--is contradicted by Nacho's voting with Singer. While I think that's the only evidence AGAINST the theory, it's still enough to make it the less likely of the two.
...If this makes sense at all.
Essentially, I've found a few key VCs which when I did my A have effectively told me who the scum are this game.My academy.
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Conclusion:So, I'm not as opposed to a Chrono lynch as I was before, since it gives us the entire scumteam either way.
I still would prefer a lynch of my confirmed scum rather than Chrono, who's only scum-in-one-scenario.
Anyway, will resume from the day three VSs to A.My academy.
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I read the thread, and realized that you were gone at the time.MrZepher wrote:Mastin are you even reading the thread? Or are you ONLY looking at the vote counts, because you're straight up not putting some things together.
But just 'cause you were gone (if you're a wolf) doesn't mean your buddies wouldn't be. And they'd see you, in the Not Voting area, and know to avoid being there themselves.
...If that makes sense.
Anyway, since we're getting closer:
Mod: I'll be V/LA from Friday until Monday, going out-of-country. (Into Canada. The actual event's from Friday night 'til Saturday-extremely-late-at-night-to-the-point-of-being-technically-Sunday. Which means I'll be sleeping 'til something like ten in the morning, and then have to drive back home, getting there Sunday afternoon--might be recovered enough to resume playing, then, but far more likely is that I'll be wiped out 'til Monday.)
Noted.Last edited by DemonHybrid on Thu May 05, 2011 6:45 am, edited 1 time in total.My academy.
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*EditBWOP: I'm saying that (if Zepher's scum) Zepher's buddies WOULD still be around, not that they'd be gone as well.mastin2 wrote:doesn't mean your buddies wouldn't be
Just to make sure that's clear. (Blasted double-negatives. )My academy.
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Singer, trust me: the person contributing the least is T-Bone.
Totally.My academy.
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For the record?
Chrono's at L-3. I count six votes on 'em, with nine needed to lynch.
If you see people "accidentally" hammer, or go, "oh, I didn't know there weremany votes!", lynch 'em.thatMy academy.
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...Because he's only fourth on my scumlist?
Because he's actually providing useful content, rather than T-Bone, Nacho, and Pine who are all giving me absolutely nothing new to work with?
Because it's possible he's not scum and that Singer is?
Because I haven't finished my VCA?
Because I haven't made my cases on my top three?
Take your pick.My academy.
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Do remember, I proposed not one, but TWO possible pairings. Pine's conveniently quoting the earlier one while leaving out the later one.My academy.
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Oh. And both T-Bone and Nacho are on Chrono, too. That certainly doesn't help my motivation, either. 'Less they both decided to simultaneously bus their partner (who was actually beginning to contribute!), it extremely weakens the read.My academy.
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