NY129-Mafia on Werewolf Island! (Game Over)

[mastin2]

I can build a case on ConSpiracy from just this page, too.

Soo... Why isn't mastin lynched, yet?

Ignores the claim from me about stopping the kill. Doesn't even say "BS" to it. Completely ignores the fact that I cleared Zepher when I had no reason to do so as scum. Completely ignores the fact that I had far more reason to gambit as town than I did as scum. Just blindly hops on, because he's afraid. He's afraid that if we prolong the day, people will realize I'm town and will instead try to lynch HIM.

Zepher, I see you reading this game...
Vote so we can end the day with a werewolf rope.

Buddies up to Zepher, tries to get him to end the day less than 24 hours after it dawned, tries to get Zepher to ignore the fact that there was a missed kill last night, tries to get Zepher to ignore the fact that I claimed responsibility for it, via me doctoring Zepher.

Such as...

Who the scum are, of course. Even IF I were scum, the town should want to have as much conversation as possible to find my buddies. (Hence, why I'd hammer as scum--to stop that from happening.) Such as how there's a missing kill, and what it means. Such as how I claimed to have protected Zepher and believe that's why the kill is missing. Such as the fact that the wagon on me formed too fast to not have one--if not both--the wolves on it.

...Yeah. The better question would be what we SHOULDN'T discuss this game, and town-ConSpiracy would've seen this.

[mastin2]

Short version Short:

ConSpiracy is in a panic, because he's worried that if we don't end the day soon with a Mastin lynch, we'll end the day with a ConSpiracy lynch instead--and that's the sort of panic you only see from caught scum. Simply put, he knows he's screwed and is trying to desperately get rid of me right now.

[mastin2]

What do you want to discuss?

See, this is why ConSpiracy is a wolf. If he were town, he would realize that there's a lot we need to discuss. If he were town, he would've realized that a longer-than-24-hour day would be pro-town, since we'd find the wolves better.

Since he's not, since he's a wolf, he doesn't understand why I'm not dead, yet.

[mastin2]

ConSpiracy, where my vote is. If we lynch the last mafia, tomorrow will be wolf-lylo, and we will have no additional leads other than exactly what we have right now.

If we lynch a wolf today, tomorrow will be 4-1-1, assuming no crosskills, killing the same people, or prevented kills. A very favorable position, where we can pretty much choose who to eliminate.

The only thing which is concerning is if we don't lynch mafia OR a wolf today. Worst case scenario is that there's no crosskills, they don't kill the same person, and nothing stops a kill, leaving tomorrow as 3-2-1. HOWEVER, I'm pretty sure the mafia would side with the town and would want to see a wolf lynched, putting it at 3-1-1 going into night (since if we mislynch twice when aiming for a wolf, we pretty much woulda lost no matter what ). WORST case scenario is that SOMEHOW, the wolf and mafia know who each other are and magically coordinate kills so it ends up 1-1-1. I find it far more likely that one of them--if not both--will crosskill, leaving 2-1 as our lylo.

If I did the math correctly, anyway.

Basically: I'm pretty sure we need a wolf-lynch today. I'm not it, obviously. And if we somehow miss, the scum will have to get EXTREMELY lucky in order for us to not win.

Though admittedly, I'm a bit tired right now and might not be thinking that clearly. It's 3 am, and I'm too tired to be making decisions of this nature without thinking the scenarios through some more. I'm a writer; thinking of all the possible outcomes is just what I do, so I'll give a more concrete answer after I've had some sleep.

[mastin2]

...Yeah, sleep time. That's pretty incoherent. I'll clarify when my mind is well-rested.

Basically:
We should be wolf-hunting. The lynch today--even if wrong--would help us find the wolf/wolves tomorrow, which'd be wolf-lylo if we miss today. (Theoretically in a worst-case scenario, missing the lynch today would be past lylo, but only in the worst case scenario. It's not very likely.)

Tomorrow's wolf-lylo unless we lynch a wolf today, and I'd prefer the situation where we have additional information giving us hints as to who the wolves are, rather than no additional information (Mafia Lynch Today).

Make sense?

(*Goes to get sleep so he can explain things more coherently*)

[mastin2]

Not here for long. But,

Spoiler: Answering Powerrox

1: You CC'd a real cop
2: You think that it's possible to unclaim and then reclaim again
3: Your constant scream "I'm town" "I'm not scum" etc just screams scum to me
4: I have a hard time seeing town would make this large gambit as you did
5: You seems to be think that "I haven't voted/been suspicious for Power and that's why he shouldn't vote for me". I'm gonna tell you a story why that's not gonna work on me

1: Look at the background of the situation. I had been calling Gorilla scum the entire game. I sure as heck wasn't going to believe the cop claim, and I felt it was my DUTY to make sure he DIDN'T get away with what I saw to be a fakeclaim.
2: Related to #1. Since I was wrong about Gorilla, I knew things were going to be bad today. My cop-claim gambit failed, because Gorilla really WAS a cop, when I was so certain he was scum. So, today, I needed to claim my actual role. ESPECIALLY since I have reason to believe my role has cleared someone who COULD HAVE been lynched today had I NOT claimed.
3: But I am! Honestly, this is just how I play. I do it all the time as both alignments. I can link you to past town games for proof.

4: Look into my meta a bit. You'll see gambiting is just what I do. Heck, the reason I'm posting under my alt--mastin2--rather than my main--Mastin--is due to a failed gambit. I took a risk, which backfired horribly, but it was not a risk I would have taken as scum. Look at the benefits I have for CC'ing the cop as town and as scum. As scum, I'm CC'ing a role WHICH IS OF NO THREAT TO ME. (Since if I were scum, it'd be Werewolf Scum, not Mafia Scum.) As scum, I ALSO know that Gorilla's telling the truth about his claim, and that I will be GUARANTEED the lynch the next day.

Now, think about that saim CC Gambit as town. I'm CC'ing the guy I have believed to be scum since I replaced in. I think that he's lying, that HE is taking a gambit about there being no real cop in the game, and I'm seeing him get away with it! I don't even think about getting lynched the next day, since I'm so sure Gorilla's lying, so sure he's NOT the cop, that I was willing to counter-claim in order to get him lynched, not even realizing that there was a possibility I wasn't thinking of: him being truthful town, which'd leave me as being in a bad situation.

5: Not really. It's just that there are three facts I know. A: You're town. That's pretty glaringly obvious. B: I'm town. I know, not obvious to anyone but myself, but true nonetheless! C: You are voting me.
And therefore, conclude naturally that
d: You are wrong, and
E: It's therefore my duty to try and convince you to vote for the

actual

scum.

You don't see me appealing to ConSpiracy or Reckamonic, do you? That's because appealing to scum is pretty worthless.

Spoiler: A brief summary of why I'm town

-I cleared someone I had no reason to as scum. As town, on the other hand, it woulda been down-right irresponsible for me NOT to have cleared Zepher.

-I claimed an easily-provable role, which has already had an influence on the night. Unless someone else wants to claim responsibility for the lack of wolf kill.

-I took a gambit which would have been a GUARANTEED loss if I were scum, and therefore could only come from someone who thought they weren't losing the gambit--as in, someone who was (albeit wrong) town.

-The fastwagon which instantly formed on me. Four votes, L-1, in such little time. You honestly believe that's a town wagon, Powerrox? You honestly think that four of the five pro-town players alive voted me in such little time? No, there's scum in there, most likely both of them.

-The fact that I didn't hammer myself. Let's consider a moment, Mastin as Scum. He's caught. He's about to be lynched. But wait--what's this?!? The town wants discussion! They are looking to find his buddy TODAY, rather than waiting until tomorrow! Now, scum-mastin can't have that, can he?
Put bluntly, scum-mastin had the chance to hammer and end discussion for the day, and that would've been the move most playing to his win condition. The fact that I DIDN'T proves how I'm not scum, since if I were scum, you could say that by giving the town the extra time to find my buddy, I was playing against my win condition. (Speaking of which, see above point about my gambit--as scum, it'd be playing against my win condition to make a gambit like that when I KNOW the outcome will be a loss. It's not against my win condition as town, however, since I'm doing another move to get my target lynched.)

-The fact that I have so aggressively been PUMMELING my scumreads. I attacked BOTH Nacho AND T-Bone, and have also been attacking singer pretty hard. That makes them want to NK me, something which I wouldn't mind if I were town but if I were scum would be a serious problem.

-Role. Doctor can't be on the same team as Watcher, since they're redundant.

TL;DR of the summary:
-Clearing someone I had no reason to clear as scum.
-Proven role.
-Taking a gambit which as scum could ONLY result in a loss, whereas when town, the gambit makes perfect sense.
-Fastwagon on me proves I'm not scum and that scum are on me.
-Lack of self-hammer when I had the chance.
-Aggressive scumhunting.
-Role is mutually exclusive with wolves.

That sums it up pretty well, but again, there's far more to this subject.

Look beneath the surface.

On the surface, you might see someone who's caught in a lie.

Look deeper. Look at the MOTIVATION for the lie.
As scum, there is no motivation. It guarantees a lynch on myself, when I'm eliminating someone who isn't a threat.
As town, there is a motivation: to get my target lynched, to eliminate someone who I legitimately believe is scum.

Think about that for a moment. You'll realize I'm right. You'll realize that I'm not scum.

Now, if there aren't any more questions, I would much prefer to switch to offense rather than stay on defense. I've quite conclusively shown you why I'm town, so anyone who isn't tunneling on me (or scum) should realize I'm not the lynch for today.

However, I have yet to prove who SHOULD be the lynch today. It's ConSpiracy, of course, but I need to show you why.

[mastin2]

The flaws in there being,
1: Zepher was cleared of being mafia yesterday, but NOT of being a wolf. If you recall,

Zepher was my number one wolf suspect until today

.
2: I don't no-kill as scum. For evidence of this, you can see my play in...

...Well, any game where I'm scum.

Spoiler: Meta Stuff, Easily Provable

My first time as scum, it was night. I had a choice between someone I was calling town since day one, someone I had been suspicious of but had said suspicion lessened, my main suspicion, and a No Kill. The person I had been suspicious of had claimed to be a Vanilla Townie, and I knew there was a Doctor out there. My first thought WAS to No-Kill, but then I realized that I could simply off the person who claimed VT. (Unfortunately, the real doctor misinterpreted my words the previous day to mean "I think this player is the doctor", when I had specifically said I thought they were NOT the doctor, so my kill was blocked.)

So, I had the opportunity to No-Kill, and chose not to take it.

Or you could look to my most recent newbie-scum-game. The doctor succeeded in a protect N1, but I didn't choose to no-kill night two. I chose a different target (who the doctor ALSO blocked Ah, how bad my luck as scum is...) rather than no-kill.

Spoiler: More Holes In The Theory

But let's ignore my history, my meta, just for a second and think about this logically in this game:

It's a dual-faction game. Two scum-factions, two kills during the night. Meaning, as a wolf, there's ALWAYS the risk of being killed by the mafia IN ADDITION to the risk of being lynched. Not killing intentionally, despite the fact that the other faction most certainly will be killing intentionally--possibly hitting me or my scumbuddy in this hypothetical mastin-scum scenario--is flat-out going against the wolf wincon. The wolves want as many people who are not themselves dead as they possibly can. A no-kill WOULD be suicidal.

More than that. Let's say I went against my established meta. Let's also just for the sake of argument say I didn't think it was against my win condition to not kill as a wolf. How would I manage to convince my PARTNER of this as well? How could I convince them to sacrifice a kill for a One-In-A-Million shot of me living?

I'm not that charismatic. Historically, my choice for scum kills has always been overridden by my scumbuddies. I've never selected a kill unless I was the only scum alive.

So, the wolf-no-kill theory is shot full of so many holes.

Occam's razor comes into play.
Which is simpler? I'm the Doctor, who successfully protected Zepher, clearing him of being a wolf...
...Or that I'm a Werewolf, who went against my normal meta, doing a play which I see as blatantly against my win condition, managed to FURTHER go against my past record and convince my scumbuddy to go along with this crazy plan, all for the sake of a Gambit which has a One-In-A-Million chance of success?

Yeah. The former.

More than that.


Let's--just for the sake of argument--say that the points I made in my defense of myself about my role aren't valid, even though I just proved they were. Just for a moment, assume that Reckamonic successfully shot them down. Heck, let's even be generous to Reckamonic and not include the part where I clear Zepher.

Removing all of those from my defense. Just for this argument, in this one moment. Guess what?

-Taking a gambit which as scum could ONLY result in a loss, whereas when town, the gambit makes perfect sense.
-Fastwagon on me proves I'm not scum and that scum are on me.
-Lack of self-hammer when I had the chance.
-Aggressive scumhunting.

These points ALL still hold valid.

Yeah. Not scum.

[mastin2]

If you recall, Zepher was my number one wolf suspect until today.

This'll need clarification.

Pine was my number one wolf suspect. Gorilla was my number two. Zepher was my number three.

When Pine flipped town, Gorilla became my number one, and Zepher became my number two.

When Gorilla flipped town, Zepher SHOULD have become my number one suspect.

The fact he isn't proves that I DO have a reason to think he's town: the lack of a wolf kill.

[mastin2]

Even still, it's in the mafia's best interest to get the werewolves D.E.D. Especially if

they're expecting to mislynch me later.

I don't want to be lynched later.

Corrected, but more or less accurate. The mafia want at least one wolf dead right now. That's why singer should be left alive today: because she (currently) has the same objective as us: Wolf Hunting.

I'll do the math a little later now that I'm more coherent, exploring all the possible scenarios, but I do believe I will conclude that singer shouldn't be lynched today.

Also, what he's pushing on Con is the same thing he's accusing Con of pushing him on, it's kinda cute.

This'll need explaining.

Also. I had high hopes for Reckamonic. If they were town, they would remember the old Mastin. They would realize that this is just the sort of thing I do...as town. They would realize that I speak the truth about my play and am not scum.

Heck, I've been scum with Reck since my return, and while I don't really count that game as being a scum game of mine and they only got a partial glance into the Mind of Mafia-Mastin, it still would be something they'd at least take a glance to, if they were town. They'd weigh whether they think I was gambiting as town or scum.

Instead, they've concluded that I'm scum. That's the proof I needed to show them as being ConSpiracy's buddy.

[mastin2]

Spoiler: WIFOM Rambling

Am I allowed to just scream WIFOM to the face of your four points?

I don't do WIFOM. Not like that, anyway. I can--and have--rambled about WIFOM. Good, bad, different forms of it, what's scum-WIFOM, what's town-WIFOM, interesting stuff.

If you want me to, I could even write it all as an MD article. But this is not the time and place for it. Put bluntly, anything we say and do can be seen as WIFOM. There's still ways to classify it, and the way I'm using it is not the scum way.

Spoiler: Zepher and I as Scum

Presumably you've cleared both yourself and Zepher from being wolves. Under the precept both yourself and Zepher are the remaining wolves, you'd be in a pretty good position if you manage to convince the town to vote ConSpyracy.

Right, so you're advocating a Zepher-Mastin scumteam? I'm not going to even waste time explaining why that makes no sense.

Also, a bit of meta:

When I gambit as scum, I do so to clear myself, and myself ONLY. Let my scumbuddies come up with their own gambits to clear themselves. I do NOT believe in creating a facade which requires both me and my buddy to stay alive. Think claiming masons. If one of us dies, the other is instantly screwed and auto-lynched.

DOUBLY So with two factions.

If this was a single-faction game?

Maybe.

Maybe

it would be possible. Yet in a double-faction game, I'd yet again like to remind you that a risk such as that one

is very likely to get my entire team killed

. Be it by lynch or nightkill. Probably a combination of both, one straight after another. It's suicide, pure and simple.

I'm not the kind of guy who wants that risk to be on my mind. I'm extremely panicky as scum. I'm consistently paranoid, that everything can go wrong at any moment. I'm a writer; that's just what I do. And when I see something which looks like it could go horrendously wrong extremely easily, I'm not going to risk it.

In other words, your theory fails to follow my basic psychological profile, something which--no matter how good I am at being scum (and TRUST me, I SUCK at being scum MORE than I suck at being town!)--I can never manipulate, since it's just who I am.

Spoiler: My Experience

Also you've been here for years, Meta from your first game is completely invalid.

1: Said game started some time in...eh, likely March, possibly April, months after I joined.
2: And while it was my FIRST game I was scum in (688 does NOT count!), it was ALSO one of the LAST I finished, because it took so dang long.

3: I flaked out of many later scum games and took an over-one-year-long hiatus. Meaning that while my join date will be my third anniversary, I actually have less than a year of total playtime.

4: Since it was my first scum game, and my BEST scum game, I look up to it, hold it in high regards.
5: DOUBLY so, since I've been on hiatus and didn't have a recent scum game to look up to. Since I had no truly valid scum game to think of, I went to the one which I WANTED to influence me.
6: And while it's the first example I thought of in regards to my scum meta, it is far from the only game which can illustrate the points I have mentioned about my scum play.

Yeah.

Spoiler: Doctor Play

EDIT: what kind of BRILLIANT DOC protects his no.1 scum suspects when a crosskill would be good for the town?

The impulsive kind who saw a name that was cleared from being one scum faction, whose other protections looked like they weren't so good, and thought that it might confirm a lot of things in the game.

Think about it. Powerrox (and--I thought, though apparently I was wrong--Charlie, too) would never be killed, because of lurking. Same goes for singersigner. I was beginning to grow suspicious of tclaw, and was not the only one, meaning he was a doubtful NK even if he was town. I wasn't going to target you, just in case you guys really were a PGO. I can't self-protect. That left Chronopie (who I forgot about--yes, I didn't think about protecting Chronopie at all; for some reason, he slipped my mind), ConSpiracy, and Zepher. ConSpiracy didn't look too apetizing a protection, so I went with the choice which felt the most natural, with the gut feeling which just seemed like it was right: Zepher.

And guess what? It was. Zepher's confirmed town. I had no better protection.

TL;DR is that Reckamonic's points hold no water.

[mastin2]

Spoiler: My Mind Works Differently Than Most, Okay?!?

I think you pushing a cop to death in a setup where a cop existing makes sense is indicative you really don't have the best interest of the town at heart.

But you have to understand, to me, a cop existing DIDN'T make sense. I saw the Seer flip, yes, but I didn't think of a cop being present instantly. It was some feeling. It just didn't seem right. Sure, a cop would make logical sense, but something about a cop being present just seemed...

off

. Like it was too perfect to be happening. Like it wasn't meant to be. My thoughts when I saw Gorilla claim instantly jumped to "fakeclaim". The fact that I used an unabbreviated BS pretty much confirms just how much I didn't believe him. A cop in the setup just seemed so

wrong

to me. I pondered other ideas, too. Like maybe we had a Seer because the wolves were stronger than the Mafia.

I didn't think, I really couldn't believe, that Gorilla was the Cop until the Mod confirmed it. I thought Gorilla was fakeclaiming. I thought that we had no real cop, or if one existed, it was not Gorilla. Because that's just the sort of thing which goes on in my mind.

If I were a wolf, I would've realized Gorilla's claim was legitimate. I would have realized that he wasn't lying. And I wouldn't have cared about him being confirmed town, since him Mafia Hunting would only BENEFIT my faction. Think about it--Gorilla potentially falseclearing (semi-clearing) a wolf would work wonders for us. Gorilla getting a guilty would secure a legitimate lynch we could get behind without suspicion, just like the Garm-SK-wagon. If I were a wolf, Gorilla was of more use to me as an Un-CC'd cop than he was to me lynched.

Spoiler: Gambiting

I've seen similar gambits.

Perhaps from other players. But how about from me? Does it fit with anything I've done in the past?

Nope.

...

Resemble

anything I've done in the past?

Nope.

Does it go against what I've done in the past?

Yes.

It does.

This kind of gambit is way beyond the scope of Mastin-scum. It's something far too crazy, too risky, for him. Only as town would I pull this move.

Spoiler: More On Cops

You trying to make us believe that in a NORMAL game with a WW-cop, you'd think there is no cop is completely subpar play.

Well, we know there is now. But like I said. I did not believe we had a cop. I was wrong, but I truly, legitimately, did not think we had one. Or that if we did, Gorilla was not that cop. Gorilla as a cop made no sense to me. Gorilla as scum made perfect sense, had everything pointing to him, had things fall into place perfectly, as if all the pieces of the puzzle were forming a picture of his avatar. Gorilla as a cop was a fragmented maze I couldn't make sense of. I simply couldn't believe he was real. There was just no way he was the cop! Heck, even before I CC'd him, people weren't fully believing his claim.

Spoiler: My Skill Level

and that you werent fuckin terrible back then.

You remember the wrong Mastin. I sucked, plain and simple. Still do. Am trying to get better.

I'm assuming you havent degraded too much

Bad before, and over a year rusty?
You think I could pull this kind of move as scum?

And people call ME insane...

Short version short, Dramonic is assuming my mind works in ways it was never wired to think like. I don't have a normal thought process. This is clear to anyone who knows me at all, who has seen my logic.

He should know better.

Spoiler: Wagons

Also you're trying to rush the Con wagon when you're saying he's trying to rush your death.

I fail to see how. I'm flat-out saying that ConSpiracy is worried that if I'm not lynched, he'll be up on the chopping block. Same applies to you.

Show me where I encourage ConSpiracy to be speedlynched. I haven't.

A ConSpiracy wagon will develop naturally over time, since he's scum. It might need a little prodding from me to get it moving from time to time, but it'll happen all on its own with a little bit of natural growth.

Unlike a Mastin wagon, which is a forced scum quickwagon that developed unnaturally. It has no flow to it, because people are pushing it too hard. Particularly, you and ConSpiracy, since you know if the wagon falls apart, it won't get started again. You KNOW that if the lynch on me loses momentum, it'll be impossible to get it started again, simply because I'm not scum and the pieces of the puzzle will slowly fall into place for the whole entire town and they'll know what they need to do: lynch ConSpiracy.

If there's one thing I know, it's types of wagons. A quickwagon is forced, and therefore almost universally contains scum, and is pretty universally on town. A slower, more natural wagon which grows with time is almost always on scum.

Spoiler: Protection

Singer was an unlikely kill, but Charlie and Power are really not because they were lurking, that's the whole point <_<

Lurking gets you nightkilled?

This is news to me!



...Yeah, right. Lurking totally gets you killed!
No, lurking gets you LYNCHED. Wrong phase, there, Dram. They weren't in my mind going to get killed.

You protected your scumread, when his death and/or flip would've prevented a potential future mislynch from your perspective

This falls apart when you realize that he was attacked by the wolves.

Not mafia.

I had a feeling that Zepher needed protection. I had a feeling it was right. And I am impulsive. You expect me to ignore that feeling? HECK NO I WON'T. (I'm starting to miss Pine. He'd back me up about me not ignoring impulses such as this. ) I had eliminated some people already, and forgotten about others (as I mentioned in my post). Zepher really was the only option which came to mind.

And it was worth it, since Zepher's now confirmed town.

Seriously, you dont even believe yourself do you?

On the contrary, I believe every word I say, since I know I speak the truth. I know I have finally found the wolves. I can now proudly say I've caught all five scum in this game, rather than just the mafia. No way am I going to doubt myself. No way is it POSSIBLE for me to think what I'm saying is false. Not when I'm on the verge of earning a town win.

Mastin, if you recall, I'm not exactly a town read.

You are now. I admit it, I was wrong about you.

Why in god's name would Wolf want to night kill me when the Cop confirmed that I wasn't mafia?

You weren't paying attention when I was rambling about Gorilla, were you?

Simply put, the wolves want to mislynch mafia. You weren't mafia. So they couldn't lynch you. And therefore, someone they couldn't lynch needed to be killed. That's my theory, anyway. I wouldn't know for sure, since all I know is that I protected you, and the wolf kill is missing, which logically to me means that the wolves tried to kill you but failed.

In essence I was basically made an easy lynch.

See above. The only way you'd have been lynched is if we were specifically trying to get rid of the wolves today. And the wolves don't want Wolf Hunting. They want to get rid of the Mafia. They want to postpone the wolf-hunting as much as they can. And if people started Mafia Hunting, they'd call you 'not-mafia', and therefore 'not-lynchable'.

Again, though, this is just my theory. For me to know, I'd actually have to be a wolf, which I'm not.

ENOUGH with the meta.

Read my entire posts, please? Meta is an augmentation for a case, not a foundation for one. I've said that multiple times in the past. I am using Meta to augment my case, sure, but my defense does not rely on it.

Meta doesn't mean anything because you've been here forever

See my thoughts on the subject. I've actually only been on the site for less than a year of gametime. And I only recently started playing again, meaning I'm rusty. That's not "been here forever".

Mastin what you've just said is that Reck doesn't have a point because you said so.

Again I would ask you to read the whole posts rather than the summaries. "Reckamonic doesn't have a point" is the summary, simply because I don't have a better way to sum up my thoughts. I go to great lengths explaining WHY in the posts, and it's FAR from "because I said so".

[mastin2]

He doesnt do it on purpose, he's just bad at summarizing :p

This much is true. Summaries are not my friend. I HATE doing them, hate having to try and think of a concise way to word things, and am therefore quite bad at it. Fun Mastin Fact:

In one (actually, wait, multiple, as both alignments) of my past games, I REFUSED to summarize, because I thought it was anti-town to shorten my arguments into something less concrete, more manipulatable, easier to degrade and strawman, etc.

You guys aren't doing a very good job of proving my old self wrong.

[mastin2]

How the hell can you type so much in such little amounts of time? 0_o

Practice.
(I AM a Writer. Typing is just what I do best. )

[mastin2]

And with this, I'm going to go into "ignore-my-scumreads-unless-town-are-being-swayed-by-them" mode, since if I continue to reply to Dramonic and ConSpiracy, I'll never manage to write a case as to why they're the wolf scumteam.

(It's extremely easy to distract me. Think of me as a kind of Attention Deficit--Ooh, new posts!* guy. )

*

My apologies for the lost hours you will now spend on TVTropes. There's just no better way to describe it.

[mastin2]

If I'm town then it's be easier to use me to lynch mafia (even though you can't myslynch scum really...)
When we get to Lylo, or w/e endgame scenario, I can be lynched as wolf scum due to prior suspicion.

Wolves are at a win-win by keeping my alive. You shouldn't have doc saved me. My death was one of the least likely out of everyone IMO.
Your logic is making less and less sense.

I have no clue what you are saying here.

You're town.

You living is good.

You were going to die, which woulda been bad, since it'd leave us with one less town alive.

You are now confirmed town since you haven't died, which is good and makes you one of the reasons the scum want me dead, right now, since they know as long as I live, so too will you be un-killable.

Therefore they want to lynch me so that they can kill you during the night since they KNOW I'm not going to flip wolf.

...Makes sense to me. What's the issue?

[mastin2]

You SAY you confirmed me, but that doesn't mean I'm town because we can't confirm your role or alignment. Make sense?

Ahh...now that makes sense. I had no clue what you were saying before.

Well, can't take back what I've done, already.

If I follow through with my plan, though, I'll be on Reckamonic tonight. That'll be the ultimate confirmation. It'll confirm you as town if the wolves NK you. It'll confirm Reckamonic is scum if I don't die. And, heck, if one of us lives but the other doesn't, it STILL confirms the other since the town will know our reads were legitimate and therefore the pairing suggestion between us was wrong.

If that makes sense.

Unless you've got a better plan for my night action, it'll be a protect on Reckamonic.

Con/Reck is more likely. Power might be a wolf.

Power can't be a wolf if both Con and Reck are; do you have an idea of which is stronger? If so, it'd be nice for it to be made more clear--are you thinking Con/Reck is the pairing, with Power as a tertiary suspect? That's what I'm interpreting it as, but it's a bit unclear, so if this is wrong, it'd be nice for you to clarify.

Nevermind, you clarify later.

[mastin2]

Simple, really. I didn't think of doing it at the time. The thought to target Reckamonic never crossed my mind until today.

What, you think I'm omnipotent or something?

[mastin2]

Since I'm actually reasonably coherent right now and have hours to spare, I'm going to put some serious work into my dual cases. (ConSpiracy and Reckamonic.)

It'll be done Page-By-Page, including interactions which are vital. It'll contain healthy amounts of speculation, but hopefully not too much. (Difference between healthy and absurd is indeed a fine line I'd prefer not to cross.) It'll of course include some sight-VCA (that is, looking at the page and having context fresh in mind, so that the VCA is slightly more accurate), as well as incorporating previous players' cases against my targets. And--of course--will conclude with an ISO-read,
And then a summary of exactly WHY they're scum.

It'll likely be an all-nighter for me, but I'm going to give you status updates, to ensure I do not slack off, a historical issue when I take on such a daunting task. Every ten pages or so sounds good.

[mastin2]

I am. For instance, I found something from RF which--while quite the speculation--COULD suggest the scum are RF/Reckamonic and Tclaw, rather than ConSpiracy and Reckamonic as I have believed.

I still think that ConSpiracy and Reckamonic are our wolves, but there's the chance they're not, as this potential scenario I found proves.

Also, I'm 1/49th of the way done!

[mastin2]

Dang it. I'm having trouble pinning down exact reasons. I don't want my case to be, "this feels wrong", "there's something off in here", etc.

...But that's what it IS right now. >_<

For the curious, it's RF's debate with C-worl on Page Two I'm on right now. It does NOT look like a town-on-town argument, but I can't think of any concrete reasons as to WHY it's not town-on-town. All I've got is my gut. :/

[mastin2]

Oh, great. Reviewing my case so far?
-A Crazy Theory which has the scumteam as Reckamonic and Tclaw, rather than ConSpiracy and Reckamonic.
-A confusing--perhaps controversial--thought process.
-Gut.
-A valid point, which I can't think of a description for without actually stating the valid point.
-Controversial VCA.
-Another controversial thought process.
-A possibly valid point, but one which is partially gut.
-Language Filters telling me something which others might have trouble seeing.
-And more gut.

...Ack. A case which is made 50% of "this doesn't feel right" won't be very useful.

It's not useless. By pointing out something feeling off to me, something tripping my gut, I can direct the town there to see if THEY have their guts activate when they look at the same thing, or--even better--see something scummy in there which would help explain my gut read.

...But it's FAR from the useful, conclusive case I was hoping to build. Not off to a great start. :/

[mastin2]

...Know what? I think I'll put the cases on hold temporarily, until I can get some suggestions on how to overcome this problem.

A case made up in a single night which is made 50% of gut will be less useful than a case made up over a few days which gut makes up only a small portion of.

Some things I'll ponder overnight are possible ways I can get around this. Like skip over the things which activate my gut unless I can think of a concrete reason (which'll leave HUGE gaps in the case... :/), skipping straight to day three (or maybe day four, or--heck--maybe even straight to Day Five!), stuff like that.

I'd much prefer that instead of avoiding the problem (by skipping the gut-tripping stuff) that I confront it and find a solution to it (have more concrete reasons), though, which is why I'm asking for help.

(What can I say? Despite how much I love logic, I'm an extremely right-brained guy who plays naturally? :/)

[mastin2]

Soooooo....... nothing. Awesome.

Refer to my previous posts. It's not "nothing". By pointing out how I feel something is off, I can direct attention to said thing which feels off, for others to confirm or refute.

It's just not the kind of concrete case I was hoping for.

Spoiler: Rambling. A Lot.

I hate gut. I always have (since Newbie 688!), and I always will. It's not a weapon I prefer to use.

...But yet, I use it all the time.

I prefer logical explanations. I prefer to think things through intuitively, not instinctively. But I can't help it. Something trips my gut, and I try analyzing why. I look at the post, I dissect it, trying to answer, "What makes me dislike this post so much?" And come up empty.

It's one of the reasons I'm such a rambler, too: I try to explain forces I instinctively know, in a matter that's intuitive. It rarely ends well. For instance, I have (on this very site, I believe!) tried explaining things, and I did it in a couple of paragraphs, with that being the most concise way I could think of things.

Someone else did it in two words.

When I say my mind is wired differently, it is no lie. It becomes quite obvious to the careful observer that I just tackle things from a different angle: an angle neither better nor worse than the normal view.

But what's frustrating is that BECAUSE it is different, I find it harder to express in traditional words. I come up with theories which make sense to me, but are incoherent piles of garbage to others. I find something which I know is off, which I know is wrong, but frustratingly can't think of a more "logical" explanation as to why.

You can see it everywhere. From the very manner I speak in, to my posts in MD, to my posts in multiple games. I really can't express things in a "normal" way. I'm building a case which is perfect for me, which makes perfect sense to me, which I feel is strong and is rather condemning to RF and therefore Reckamonic...

...But I KNOW that it won't be to others, since they don't think the same way I do. Since they don't have that different wavelength of thought. Since they approach things in a more traditional matter, my unorthodox methods are controversial and confusing at best.

For the record, that's why I tend not to explain myself: it removes my credibility, because I know people will laugh when they see my "logic". It's logic to me, but not to them.

And it's a problem I'm still trying to overcome.

Spoiler: Ideas I've thought of

-Ignoring the fact that it'll be a case comprised mainly of gut and plowing through it all, anyway. It might not be IDEAL, but it'll prove I actually DID put the time and effort into the case which I am claiming to have. It'll prove that my scumreads don't come out of thin air. It'll show exactly WHY I think Reckamonic and ConSpiracy are scum, even if you don't understant the reasons. (Essentially--it'll show you my reasons for thinking they're scum; even if you can't comprehend the reasons themselves, you'll be able to at least SEE them, rather than have them just be in my head.)

-Skipping Day One. Less than ideal. I find the first five or so pages to be some of THE most critical to people's alignment, since it's in the stage of the game where that's exactly what people AREN'T expecting. You can learn some unbiased, undistorted facts about people from that stage, and I'd prefer not to skip it.

-Skipping straight to Reckamonic's entrance to the game. After all, Reckamonic can't exactly defend against any of the things I point out about RayFrost. HOWEVER, I would prefer not to ignore the play of a previous player's slot and give 'em a clean slate. It rarely ends well. (I know from first-hand experience being replaced as scum. It's happened three times, from memory: my second Jungle Republic game, Newbie 688, and my recent Newbie Scum game. All three of which I was suspected in. The former one the new player didn't do much better, but did avoid the lynch. The latter two, the new player DEFINITELY did better. )

-Skipping to Day Three. This one's a little more viable than the others, since Day One is Day One, and you kinda expect things to be crazy, and Day Two was also a bit insane, due to the whole Garm issue.
*Skipping to me replacing in. Not too far into Day Three, I might add.

-Skipping to Day Four. This one's less ideal than most, since there's the whole T-Bone thing.

-Skipping to Day Five. I know, you might think this is one of the least-viable options. And it'd certainly make the cases far shorter than I would prefer. But Day Five is--from my memory--one of the most vital days to my suspicion on those two, due to what I'm remembering of their play. Building a case on Day Five would confirm or refute my memory of that day.

-Skipping to Today. Related to the above, but less ideal, since my suspicion is derived greatly from a combination of today and yesterday.

-Just skipping things which are gut or too crazy of theories for the taste of others, despite how logical they seem to me.
Viable, and Doable, but will leave huge gaps in the case, where it'll appear I'm seemingly ignoring DOZENS of posts. (Yes, that's how many I get bad gut feelings about. DOZENS. )[/soiler] As you can see, none of them are perfect. But the only other one?

-Waste hours of time PER POST to figure out WHAT gives me the gut feeling, waste even more hours of time finding a more logical way to present my crazy theories, etc. Effectively quadrupling the time I'd have to spend writing the case.

[mastin2]

FFF--
Broken spoiler tag. Sorry 'bout that.

[mastin2]

(Sorry if that joke is innapropriate, but I couldn't word it in another way)

'S'okay. It's pretty well-known that I have issues. And, hey, I always have been called "insane!"

Chronopie's all the encouragement I need to resume the case. I'll continue to give status updates. Not going to work on it right now (this is just a quick post before I depart to go elsewhere), but I'll have time later tonight.

[mastin2]

Alright. Got the time. I'm going to start working, again. *cracks wrists*

See you in the morning.

(Yeah, that's probably how long it'll take me to finish it, working all night on it. If I got done by 4 am [10:11 right now], I'd consider myself lucky. )

[mastin2]

And, I'm kinda cursing right now. I was thinking at first, "Oh, hey, Slaxx modded a game with me in it; he should be able to better read me and conclude I'm town when he compares me to my play in his game!"

...Then I remembered I was playing as a hydra and he didn't get to see my thoughts at all. >_<

I never left Page Two, by the way. I believe it was either 33 or 36 where I left off, but I read the whole page of C-worl vs RF to see if the general trend I was noticing (that it didn't seem town-on-town) would continue.

If that makes sense.

[mastin2]

Just got to page three, meaning I FINALLY got done with Page Two. My case is a little over three screenwidths long, currently.

[mastin2]

*sigh*

Despite working on it for around 75% of the time I've been awake (blasted distractions >_<), I'm still only on page three. It's, uh, a long page? It contains lots of stuff on RF, lots of good scummy things, but me being the horrible-at-explaining-things guy I am, I'm having extreme trouble getting the right words into my head. (Unlike with most of my gut-stuff, this is things which I know to be more clear, where I know EXACTLY what's making me suspicious, and WHY, but lack the words to describe it. Forcing me to describe it as "gut" because I have no words for it, despite the fact that it's not really gut; it's just something which has no words coming to mind.

If that makes sense. :/)

Unfortunately, I'm dead-tired. (What do you expect, for 4 am in the morning without an ounce of sleep? )

While incoherent Mastin can sometimes be hilarious to watch speak, I'm not exactly very productive when I'm this tired. My apologies. I really wanted to get done tonight, but it looks like I can't. :/

[mastin2]

Power: You're not thinking the way you need to. Think of my motivation. What scum motivation is there for my actions?

None.

What town motivation is there fore my actions?

Plenty.

That aint WIFOM. That's plain simple reasoning.

Spoiler: On Gambiting

Risky gambit as doc is risky.

Dude.

YOU'RE TALKING TO THE GUY WHO SACRIFICED HIS MAIN ACCOUNT ON A GAMBIT.

Specifically, in There Will Be Bloodshed, to protect a strong townread--Pine--from getting lynched, I took a gambit: I said, essentially, "If Pine is scum, I am permanently retiring from the name Mastin." Pine was being lynched at the time. That gambit completely halted his lynch, permanently. (Pine was scum, so I had to switch to mastin2.)

Same exact situation here, only reversal in my read:

To ensure a strong scum read got lynched, I took a gambit. Gorilla looked like he was going to get away with it and not be lynched. My gambit ensured he was going to be lynched.

You're also talking to the guy who self-voted to prevent a town-read of his from getting lynched in a previous game. (Mean Mod Mafia, a game hosted by Battle Mage.)

And the guy who has historically been taking risks.

Yes.

Risky gambit is risky.

THAT'S JUST WHAT I DO.

So, knowing that I gambit--a lot--it's not unreasonable to say it's pretty much null for me to do so. (Regrettably. I'd love for it to be a town-tell, but I remember having gambited once or twice as scum in the past. Took a horrendously bad one in Boost Mafia 2, for instance.)

What you need to do is not look at the dang gambit itself.

You need to look at the FREAKIN MOTIVATION for the gambit. This is my level of scumhunting. I look at the motivation behind the post. And it works pretty well.

What scum motivation do I have for COUNTERCLAIMING A ROLE WHICH

IS OF

NO THREAT TO ME, AND IN FACT ACTUALLY

BENEFITS

MY TEAM?!?

(I have multiple times explained to you how Gorilla alive only helps the wolves. Gorilla couldn't catch the wolves with his investigation, and his results would most likely pseudo-clear a wolf if investigated. It'd also help the town Mafia-Hunt which takes their mind off of Wolf Hunting. In other words, optimal wolf play would've been to keep Gorilla alive.)

I have none.

What motivation do I have for counterclaiming someone I think is fakeclaiming scum?

That sentence pretty much gives you the answer itself: plenty, as I wasn't letting him get away with a fakeclaim. (It, uh, wasn't, but I THOUGHT it was. )

Spoiler: Cop Stuff

My main qualm with Mastin's claim is if he had thought about it for a bit, he would have realized that having a Seer but not a cop would make the werewolves way less powerful than mafia and throw the game off balance unless werewolves had weaker roles or less people, but I see it being far more likely the teams are evenly balanced.

What. No, seriously, What? You're making no sense, here. This is the INVERSE of the truth. Having a Seer but not a cop would make the wolves less powerful only IF the wolves were of the same strength of the Mafia. And I think they're stronger than the Mafia. ('Least, I thought they were at the time.) This is evident by the fact that we as a town haven't managed to lynch a single wolf whereas we've had two mafia die. For there to be a Seer and not a cop, it merely requires stronger roles. Not weaker ones.

It makes perfect sense to me. Wolves woulda still had all three members alive, if not for the modkill. Mafia haven't. Is that just really a difference in skill? Bad luck for the mafia? Bad play for the mafia? Or is it because the wolves maybe have an edge?

See where I'm going with this? Of course, now I know that I was probably wrong, but I believed it at the time. It made sense to me. This is just the way I think. With the play I had seen thusfar in the game, I concluded that the wolves couldn't have simply just played better and been more lucky than the mafia. They had a member of their team modkilled, creating links to them; shouldn't it have been EASIER to find the wolves, not the Mafia?

Also, think of the setup name:

Mafia on WEREWOLF Island. The Mafia are invaders, weaker than the Defenders, the Natives, the Wolves. It makes perfect sense for there to be a Seer to combat the local dominant threat on the island. It makes less sense for there to be a Cop coincidentally appearing at the same time the Mafia do.

It all falls into place if you think of it like that. A Seer to counteract the stronger wolves, no cop to counteract the weaker mafia.

So saying he didn't think there was a cop is silly, and something I doubt someone as analytical as Mastin would have conveniently missed.

Conveniently missed? Dude. It's BECAUSE I'm analytical that I CONCLUDED there was no Cop! That's not an assumption you make without thinking things through a lot. Most people would probably assume automatically that there was a cop. I thought things through, and concluded that there wasn't. See the above ramble about the subject?

Which is more likely: that I'm scum, who really did know there was a Cop in the game, Counterclaimed KNOWING that there was a cop in the game, knowing that I'd get lynched the day after that, and when I realized I was screwed, thought of an elaborate explanation as to why I thought there was no cop, which I know is very doubtful to actually work...

...Or that I'm town, who concluded there was no Cop through the above logic, counterclaimed someone I thought was fakeclaiming, and honestly thought Gorilla would flip Wolf?

When I say a gambit, I mean he was anti-town and decided to no kill and claim doc.

See my meta.

I don't No-Kill.

Ever.

Doing so is against my wincon.

Let's say I went against my established "no No-Killing" meta, just for a sec for the sake of a gambit.
I now have to convince my scumpartner that we should sacrifice our kill for a gambit which has a less than 5% chance of success.

I explained this in great detail in one of my posts. That's the summary of it, though.

I want to see his case first though.

About to work on it. But you know what I said earlier. I would ignore my scumreads, unless the town was starting to be convinced by them.

The town's starting to be convinced by them.

I had to make this post to once again show you the reasons I'm town which so many are conveniently ignoring.

People are nitpicking all the finer little details which "don't add up" to them, ignoring the grander, larger picture which paints the picture that I am town. They're ignoring anything which contradicts with their view "Mastin is Scum" when I have had multiple points which have never been countered, and even the ones which HAVE been countered I then re-countered and proved why they were still valid, something everything is ignoring.

[mastin2]

In one game I was in, one scum superscumhunted in order to get towncred form it. That argument doesn't work at all

You're taking it out of context, that's why.

Aggressive scumhunting in a single-faction game is a null tell. Everyone knows that. (Or should. )

Aggressive scumhunting in a MULTI-faction game, however, is a town-tell, because the other scum faction would fear your skill and nightkill you if you're pushing them too hard. Look at Nacho's play.

Nacho's normally hyper-aggressive as town. In this game, he was a huge lurker. That goes beyond him having been scum. He can fake being hyper-aggressive as scum; I've witnessed it before.

It was an intentional choice by Nacho. The reason why is obvious to anyone who knows anything about multi-faction games: you don't want to be crosskilled, and if you look like the voice of reason--something scum normally love to do--then you're at SERIOUS risk of being NK'd by the opposite team.

I bet if I looked at T-Bone's play, I'd see the same thing, too. ('Least, 'til his last day. )

Compare to some of the other players. C-worl, for instance. Pine I suppose could be another. Maybe Kise as well. Plenty off the top of my head.

They were all town, and pushed hard. And they mostly paid the price for it via being NK'd.

Compare that to me--definitely the hyperagressive mold.

Compare me to most of the rest in here. Heck, scratch that, compare me to everyone who is alive.

You'll note that I have pushed harder, been far more forceful, than anyone alive.

Though not anyone dead. Plenty of NKs happened for that reason. I've played with Thor, before, so it wouldn't surprise me if a wolf who had also done that before killed Thor simply to stop him from hyperactively scumhunting because he woulda essentially taken control of the game.

That's why it's a towntell: because it gets you killed, and the scum don't want to be killed.

P-Edit: Still very sure you're WIFOMing scum mastin

Because you're not thinking about it.

Put yourself in my shoes. Do it, for just a second. First, put yourself in my shoes, thinking like scum.

Why would you counterclaim the cop, who is only going to benefit your faction?

Now, put yourself in my shoes, thinking like town.

Why would you counterclaim the cop, who you think is fakeclaiming?

That's not WIFOM.

Nobody has answered my question with anything other than "WIFOM." Because they can't. They can't think of a single reason. Not even an incredibly stretched, farfetched reason! For why I would do it as scum. So, they label it as "WIFOM" because they don't have a way to counter the defense more logically.

[mastin2]

Also the seer died night 1 before he got to catch mafia whereas the cop caught one.

Well, I know that, NOW, but I thought he was fakeclaiming at the time.

And much more realistic and parsimonious than thinking one team is way more powered just because there isn't an investigative role that targets them (especially now that one for each faction has flipped).

I have no clue what you are saying.

I'm not buying it.

Because you're tunneling. You of all people should know that I think differently than most.

Really. How come it's so hard for you guys to believe that a guy who thinks in an ABNORMAL way made an UNUSUAL conclusion?

Because you don't think I think differently? That's something I'd never fake, nor could I. That goes deeper than meta. That's my very personality, who I am, what I live and breathe in every single post I make, everywhere.

So, it can't be because you think I don't have that different wavelength of thought.

What, then, makes it so hard to believe?

"Because it seems so logical?"

To you, sure. But to me? No. To me, having a Cop in the game just didn't feel right, not with all of what I had seen so far pointing to there being none.

I think you're missing my point anyway.

Did I not say, "I don't understand."?

Of course I'm missing your point, because I'm flat-out not understanding it. I really have no clue what you were saying, because it made no sense to me.

Ugh. Just hurry up with your case mastin ._.

You realize my case is already as long as my longest defense, despite the fact that I'm only 1/33rd of the way done, right?

If you've been skimming my posts, then you're not going to read the case.

Read all my posts--spend the time actually listening rather than letting the words go in one ear and right out the other. I know, it takes forever. But you've been concluding I've been scum...for reasons I've multiple times explained why are wrong. If you spent the time actually reading everything I said, you'd realize that I really don't have it in me to fake this level of play as scum. You'd realize that there's no POSSIBLE way I'm a wolf.

Speaking of which. There's been at least three people who've shown interest in Zepher being my scumpartner (which is wrong because I'm not scum ), and Zepher's counter to this is that I might be scum with ConSpiracy.

Other than my play today (clearing Zepher, going after ConSpiracy), tell me, what makes those my scumbuddies?

It doesn't add up.

What makes me scumbuddies with anyone?

Nothing makes sense to me. I simply don't see how--other than today--there has been any reason to suggest I'm scum with anyone else.

I've been riding solo for a long time.

[mastin2]

Also it's not a gambit. There's a mafia roleblocker and mastin got roleblocked. Gorilla claimed to have been roleblocked when he tried to investigate the PGO. See no reason for dead cop to lie. I'm like 95% sure that's what happened. Mastin failed to kill and then decided to claim doc. That is why he keeps saying he wouldn't gambit like this. He didn't intend for the no kill to happen.

No offense intended, but you're really being a moron, right now.

I was seen as confirmed scum as soon as Day Five ended.

What kind of Wolf in their right mind would send me to kill, KNOWING that there would probably be a roleblocker on me?

No, Slaxx. If there were a Mafia Roleblocker, and if I were a Wolf, I'd send my BUDDY to perform the kill, since nobody would have any idea who my buddy is.

(There's a reason nobody knows for sure who my buddy is:
Because I have none. )

[mastin2]

Because you fake claimed cop.

Explained multiple times why, and you KNOW it fits with my nature to pull a gambit like this as town.

I pulled a fakeclaim, fully intending to get Gorilla--my number one wolf read-- lynched.

If I were scum, tell me. JUST EFFING TELL ME. (No response of "WIFOM" this, "WIFOM" that.) Why would I do that? Seriously. I have yet to receive an answer. At all.

If I were town, tell me. Why WOULDN'T I do that?

[mastin2]

I could compile every single post I've made today, put together all my arguments in one place.

Then, compare to the counter-arguments.

I'd find that there's a lot other people are dodging, specifically avoiding addressing, because they know I'm right but are refusing to see it. So many of my points have been dodged, deflected, moved elsewhere, strawmanned, etc. Very few have been properly countered. Even those that have been, haven't had their re-counter countered. I think it'd be an interesting experiment to show just HOW much you guys are tunneling on me, that you ignore SO MUCH of what I've been saying.

Or I could, y'know, actually work on the case. I might throw in a Tclaw/Slaxx case, too, just to be sure, since they're also a possible wolf, even though I find them to be less likely.

[mastin2]

Alright.

Unfortunately not right now.

I have to leave.

You guys literally ate the two hours of my time I was planning to spend working on the case, wasting it instead on forcing me to defend myself.

[mastin2]

Zepher: Sorry, not quite understanding what you're saying in that post.

Singer: Everyone (myself included) believes you to be the last mafia, pretty much. To the point where it's practically confirmed, though I admire your refusal to admit it in thread.

I'm busy elsewhere for a while, but I will be resuming shortly.

[mastin2]

Well, quite frankly, it's not.

You can't exactly look into my head, so there's no way to know for SURE what I would and wouldn't do as scum...

...But you can look at my past games and get a general idea of what I do and don't do as scum. Or as both alignments, for that matter.

I have, like, twenty games finished. While not playing with me in 'em, you can kinda get the idea by looking at them.

(Sorry. I'm a bit incoherent right now, much to my chagrin. I'll be fixing it up shortly, but bear with me for a while until I wake myself up.)

[mastin2]

Bad idea to answer when incoherent something that complicated, on my desktop rather than laptop.

[mastin2]

But I will answer later.

[mastin2]

Still workin' on it. (Also a prodvoid. I've been busy. :/)

[mastin2]

Hey!

You do realize that I'm sacrificing my whole day, that I'm sacrificing all other games, that I'm about to waste...probably a good solid 24 hours working on this game? That I'm sacrificing every single minute of time I'd prefer to be working elsewhere...so that I can finish the case by the deadline you presented?
24 hours. You gave it to me. And while I do not guarantee you that I will get done in that time, I will guarantee that I can get pretty dang close to done.

[mastin2]

I'm at L-2. Singer, if you put me at L-1, Slaxx'll hammer. Or maybe Chronopie, but doubtful.

I've been working on the case for the last two hours non-stop. I haven't even eaten breakfast, yet. I haven't taken a shower, I haven't brushed my teeth, I haven't done anything other than work on this game all day. If I'm hammered before the case is finished, I'll be pretty dang angry that you just lost one of my best walls ever.

[mastin2]

Hey, guys, remember when I said this?

but I'm going to give you status updates, to ensure I do not slack off, a historical issue when I take on such a daunting task. Every ten pages or so sounds good.

Well, to be blunt, I was serious. The fact that I haven't given you a status update pretty much confirms that I haven't been working on my cases since I last gave a status update.

HEY!

I SEE YOU REACHING FOR THAT VOTE BUTTON! HOLD ON A SEC AND LET ME EXPLAIN!

The reason WHY I haven't been working on the cases is that I've been doing a project for this game, call it an essay if you will, which I feel is equally important to the cases. In other words, I haven't been slacking off; I've just been working on the game in a different way than you intended.

The reason why is because I feel this little Wall is vital to the game, and I predicted that it'd take me a long time to finish, longer than even the cases, so I began focusing on this little project first. And I fully intend to post it at the same time as the Cases, since I've historically been lynched prior to finishing my cases.

The reason I'm telling you guys this now is that I just finished the project. Yes. I've been working on said project for pretty much a solid 48 hours. (Sadly not consecutive--I'm not THAT devoted to the game --but still pretty hardcore stuff.) That should inform you just how large and important I consider it.

What this means is that I'll be delayed in releasing my Cases, since this project I felt needed completion first. The reason being, that, well, you wouldn't wait for the project to be finished if I gave you the cases first, but you might--for just a few hours--be willing to extend it for the cases, since they'll likely be among my greatest contribution to the town.

I'm telling you this now, since the project is finished, and I am just now resuming my Cases. It'll take time, but less than the project, which I just pulled an all-nighter to complete.

Now, I am willing to release this project before the cases (despite me really wanting to release them simultaneously) to prove I did indeed work that solid 48 hours, but only under the condition that the wait for my Cases be extended due to my justified time sink on said project.

(Also. For the record, I have three and a half hours until the original deadline for my cases expires. Not nearly enough time to finish the cases, of course, but enough to get them into rhythm, so to speak. As in, getting into the groove of writing the case, after taking a prolongued break. I WILL be giving status updates, to prove I am making progress, so that when people log on, they'll be more willing to accept that the cases won't be that late and will be able to estimate their approximate arrival time.)

[mastin2]

Oh, you're not going to like this.

I'm

not going to like this either. (Since it'll likely guarantee I get lynched for apparently not following through on the case despite the fact that I'm starting to do so right at this moment.)

But, uh, the last thing I wrote on the cases was way back on 62.
As in, post 62.

As in, page three.

This'll be fun. :/

(But let it never be said I do not give games my all. I have 18 pages of content in Microsoft Word. Expect 30 by the time my cases are finished.)

[mastin2]

What do you mean by that?

Short version?

I will be providing summaries. (Though fair warning, one thing Reckamonic has right about me is that I AM terrible with summaries. My summaries are extremely easy to leave strawmannable versions of my argument. In other words, by manipulating the summary rather than the original case, anyone who wants to attack me can make my points appear far weaker than they really are because they're only giving a distorted version of the full argument.)

[mastin2]

Right. So I'm still on three, but got to 65.

Fair warning--the Caffeine Pills along with the Coffee and Coca Cola I've been having are beginning to lose their impact, so tiredness is beginning to set in. (I did just pull an all-nighter.) But while that certainly has SLOWED progress, I shall not let sleep conquer me. (If I do, there's a fairly good chance it'll conquer me in this thread permanently. ) I could have, like, a section on the Web Original part of "Determinator".

[mastin2]

mastin, can't you just post whatever you have ATM?

The personal project really won't look very good unless it has the case to accompany it, and the case right now has only three or four truly valid points, all from the early-game, which therefore means that it's not a strong case at all, right now.

So, uh, I wish, but nope, can't post it yet.

Don't worry. I still have Two Hours and Twenty Minutes until my deadline, and ~100 pages left to create my case, on a sleep-deprived body which is running low on energy and whose only motivation is 1: to prove that he can, and 2: to stop himself from being lynched, and if it weren't for those two combined, he'd have fallen asleep hours ago.

How hard could it be?

[mastin2]

...Two hours left?!?

Crud. The time's just slipping away. Dang it. Well, if you're reading this, that must mean I've finally finished Page Three. Three down, 99 left to go! (>_<)

[mastin2]

Dang it, hour

and a half

left. Why is it that I seem to be getting less done in more time?!? I should be getting more efficient as I go along, not less! >_<

Just finished 4. On to 5.

[mastin2]

But if I fall asleep, by the time I wake up again, I might have.

And the only way I can keep myself from sleeping right now is having something strongly motivating to work on to keep tiredness at bay.

In other words, if I fell asleep right now and woke up, say, eight hours later, would I still be alive, or would I be lynched?

Fair chance of the latter, so therefore I cannot afford to fall asleep right now. Not when there's still work for me to finish, and I know falling asleep might prevent me from doing it...permanently.

[mastin2]

But you're still going to vote for me today.

And I would never forgive myself if I didn't finish before you did.

(Interestingly enough, there's more evidence in the early pages for a RF-Tclaw scumteam than I thought there was. I still think Tclaw's Neighbor Claim is legitimate and therefore Slaxx who replaced Tclaw is town, but it's still theoretically possible that Tclaw's scum, and I'm not ruling 'em out, yet. You'll see what I mean after I post the finished case.)

Warning: I am highly incoherent from the all-nighter. I don't think it's interfering (I'm catching the typos, it seems), but it's always possible some things slip through the cracks and I say something which makes no sense to you because I somehow say one word which makes no sense in place of the word I meant. (For instance, I almost wrote "finished test" above, rather than "finished case". )

[mastin2]

ARG!

I FELL ASLEEP! D:

Alright, so I'm wide awake now, more awake than I have been in hours, but still, that was time wasted I would much have preferred to spend working here. (And I did literally fall asleep while working. It's a miracle my laptop wasn't damaged or anything. ) Resuming. (For the record, I still haven't eatean breakfast...over 24 hours after I said I hadn't done so yesterday, too. )

[mastin2]

Just finished five, though. (My bad for the sleep. I honestly didn't know I was sleeping. Since I worked literally until the moment I was asleep. )

[mastin2]

Oh, hey, totally forgot to mention. Page seven, already. I guess I'm getting into the rythm a little more than I was before.

[mastin2]

Man, Page Seven was long.

Regardless, finished now.

[mastin2]

Finished Eight, but unfortunately, now I need breakfast. (At 2:22 PM. ) If I don't eat something, I'll collapse from lack of energy.

[mastin2]

Spoiler: I'm in a Bad Mood

All will be answered when I finish. And no, it's not a PBPA of every single player. Just of three. My main wolf suspects.

You want my analysis? It's in all of my posts. You, Mafia, Reck and ConSpiracy, wolves, Slaxx, tertiary wolf suspect, Zepher, confirmed town, Powerrox, town, Chronopie, very likely town. I've been saying that for ages. I've been giving reasons for each of these for days. If you haven't read 'em, that's not my fault. But the cases I'm making against my three will be even more extensive and conclusive. Have been working at them since 6 am, after all. (It's 3:45 pm.) Pretty much non-stop.

You being Mafia, singer, I think doesn't really need to be explained. Who here doesn't think you're Mafia, besides yourself?

If there were anyone, then I might waste the time making a case to show why you are.

But everyone DOES believe you're the last mafia, and therefore making a case to show WHY is a waste of my time, since it's only for YOUR benefit and not the benefit of anyone else.

As for drawing the game out: of course I am. I'm drawing the day out, because a quicklynch on me would be purely scum-motivated. I've been advocating from the beginning that a quicklynch on me would be forceful and scum-driven, whereas if the day dragged on, a wagon on the real scum would naturally form by itself. Why wouldn't I drag the game out as town, when the only reason to end it prematurely would be scum-motivated?

I've been posting content, giving reasons for my reads, since the moment I replaced in. And they've been good reads, with good reasons. You've just ignored them for the most part because you haven't been reading by your own admission. I've been giving the Why People Are Scum for pages, yet because nobody is listening, I needed to go bigger, to make a case, the ultimate expression of Why People Are Scum, since my little posts apparently haven't been enough to convince you.

As for the Doctor Claim: My reasons were explained rather clearly.

I CLAIMED AT THE FREAKIN' BEGINNING OF THE DAY, SINGER.

I claimed responsibility for the lack of Wolf-Kill, and made that quite explicit.

More than that, by stating you're blacklisting me, you just made a scumslip and admitted you know I'm town, since if I were scum fakeclaiming, there'd be no reason to blacklist me, whereas if I were town, there might be.

Yeah. I've been working on this game all-night, have had virtually no sleep at all (a small accidental nap doesn't really count) for 48 hours, and come in to see someone ranting at me for not contributing when contributing is EXACTLY what I am working on doing. That does not exactly leave me in a mood for kind words, so apologies if I come off as a little bit offensive right now.

[mastin2]

But Zepher's confirmed town to me. Confirmed not-mafia by our cop, confirmed-attempted-wolf-kill to me. I realize that it's only to me, but I'm dang-well going to list him as confirmed town when to me he is.

Power being town is just a read I got. Admittedly, it's possible I'm wrong, but I don't think I am. The play just doesn't seem like that of a wolf, and certainly not that of mafia. Chronopie can't be mafia for the same reason I can't be mafia, that being, that it'd require them to be mutually bussing each other. He theoretically could be a wolf, but I find that extremely doubtful. Particularly with his pro-town play today.
You, I believe to be town, mainly due to your claim. And also partially due to how you're tunneling. You and Power both display Town Tunnel Vision. (Reckamonic and ConSpiracy both display scum Tunnel Vision, to contrast.) It's possible I'm wrong, and you're my third suspect, Slaxx, so I'm writing a case on you just in, well, case. But I do believe you're town. Wrong-town, like Power, but still town, nonetheless.

[mastin2]

So, yeah. While nobody's "town" with this double-faction stuff, that doesn't mean we can't get good reads. I've gotten nice, solid ones which have been backed up quite nicely, overall.

[mastin2]

(For reference, just to humor singersigner, Jindori quotes two examples of her predecessor defending T-Bone. There's far more linking her as scum than just that, of course, but just thought I'd give her a little piece of why she's outed as Mafia.)

I'm done with Page Nine, by the way. My case on RayFrost (now Reckamonic) is actually quite condemning by this point. If it weren't for the fact that it's incomplete and only covers one tenth of the game, I'd be posting it.

[mastin2]

Just finished page 10, for what it's worth. I'll give less frequent status updates, now. How about every five rather than every one? Since my pace has picked up significantly, I'm actually getting work done fairly quickly.

[mastin2]

My bad. Unavoidable Real-Life obligation I had neglected to remember.

Spoiler: Apologizing Ramble

(As much as I sacrifice for this game--you have no clue how much I'm actually giving up to work here. No Clue just how badly I'm making myself suffer right now to finish--there are some things which you simply cannot avoid NOT doing. This was one of them. I wanted to continue working, and considered giving up the thing I couldn't give up, but decided that I'd have to deal with the consequences of it in this game, since In-Game consequences only will be remembered by me, making me the only one regretting my choice. Real-Life consequences will be remembered me, but will also have reminders from people I know.

If that makes sense. Essentially, I didn't want to stop working on this game, but thought that if I didn't take care of this Real-Life obligation, I would regret it more than if I didn't take care of my obligation in this game. [Though I still am kicking myself that I haven't gotten as much work done as I intended to... ])

At that pace, you would be done in over two days time.

While I do believe that I shall go faster--far faster--than that, if it DID take me a solid 48 hours of work, uninterrupted, do you know what I'd say?

"Bring it on."
And get it done, anyway.

'Cause that's just the kind of guy I am: true to my word, true to my promises as much as I can be, since I have this foolish thing I like to call an "honor code" which obligates me to do a duty to my games.

You're gunna have to give me more than someone who flipped scum saying I'm scum.

It wasn't that Jindori called your predecessor scum. It's just that I linked to that post for convenience, since Jindori pointed out two instances of defending T-Bone. More convenient than me tracking down the links to the posts. If that makes sense.

When you write so many people off as being town, for little->no reason, you start having confirmation bais when you make cases for/against certain players. This is what you're doing with RF/Reck. Because you've convinced yourself he's scum, all you're doing is looking for things that make him scummy. You should try to avoid that.

Actually, I'm skipping the things which I see as town and/or have no read on, and there's quite some bit of that. If I were truly tunneling, I'd make every word they said be scummy, but I'm not--I'm only pointing out what I find actually DOES look scummy. More than that, it's not really much of RF's posts specifically which make him scummy--it's the links they have to the other wolves. Specifically, Jindori is so linked to RF it's not even funny, and it looks like no accident.

Meaning, either Jindori was given some rather good pointers and/or is far better newbscum than he was given credit for, and knew to buddy up to town (and somehow get that town to buddy back!), or Jindori was typical newb-scum, buddying up to his...well, buddy, who defended him in subtle ways which seem rather condemning to me.

I'll explain in the case this subject in more detail; this is just a brief version, essentially.

[mastin2]

Working on it.

If I have to pull two all-nighters in a row on this game to get it done, so be it. 284, for the curious, is where I am. It'll likely be double that in an hour or two.

[mastin2]

It's BECAUSE I'm town that I can't stop, Slaxx. Because if I were scum, I'd be giving up right now. Because if I were scum, building a case is the last thing I'd want to waste hours of my time on when I knew people wouldn't read it until I was dead and after that would conclude it's all WIFOM.

But I'm not scum. And I know that if I were to be lynched, that I need to have at least given the game what I could. That I'd need to have given the game every single piece of effort that I could.

No, Slaxx. I cannot sleep right now.

I meant it when I said I devote more to this game than most people. (And, heck, likely put more time into a single in-Game day than most people put in for the ENTIRE game.)

Know how many rulesets include "Treat this game as a commitment"?

Well, if I don't give a game my all when I'm at risk of death, I'm violating that rule.

This game is a commitment. It IS worth it all, if I'm vindicated. Even if said vindication comes posthumously, if I can say I gave this game my all, that I gave this game everything I possibly could and fought as hard as physically possible...

It'd be worth it. I'd maintain my honor and integrity as a player, keeping my promise to deliver. (Albeit a bit later than planned, to deliver before death!)

I have a point to prove, and I cannot stop until I do. Heck--Even if nobody read it. The fact that I did it, that I went through the time and effort, proves that I was legitimate in all my views, that I meant every word.

All the suspicion on me. All my suspicions. All legitimate. If I get my reads out there with this super-wall which nobody'll read, it'll still prove my reads are accurate, without anyone having read the reasons. It'll prove that Reckamonic and ConSpiracy are scum, without you having even read it.

(Okay, so the game might be a bit of an unhealthy obsession of mine. But still. I made a promise, and I have an obligation to the town to see it through, to play to the best of my ability to my wincon. Giving up now and sleeping would be failing that duty.)

[mastin2]

Does this strike anybody else as odd and/or dumb?

A bit dumb, yeah, but only cements Power as town. By my time, I believe Power's deadline is 5 AM tomorrow morning. (It's 11:14 AM right now, Demon's votecount shows a timestamp of 1:06, I'm guessing that was made at 11:06, Power's post was at 7 am, and therefore, following the pattern, 5 am by my time tomorrow.)

How about this: At your deadline, Power, I post what I've got--regardless of whether I finish or not--and then you can read it while I do the rest of it should I not be ready in time. (Which'd obviously mean you'd have to hold off from lynching me. )

Anyone object?

[mastin2]

(And, yes, that'll probably mean another all-nighter for me, but it's worth the cost. I'm pouring my heart and soul into this game. In the last four days, I've gotten less than 12 hours of sleep [do the math--the normal amount is 36], but sleep deprevision for a WEEK would still be worth it if I finished before you lost patience and lynched me while I still hadn't completed things.)

[mastin2]

No duh it's dying.

Because you're all focusing on me while ignoring my words and there's only so much I can say in defense before the arguments get old.

Rather than focus on other suspects.

Like, say,
"Even if I were scum, who am I scum with? Why? Show the connection between us which makes us scum."
And if you respond, well, then, I shouldn't be the one to defend. The person accused should. They might go "well, you're wrong, 'cause I'm not scum with Mastin", but preferably, they'd explain WHY the person was wrong, why the connection was false. Without my aid.

(I obviously can shoot down any scumteam consisting of Mastin-*any other player*, but if it comes from me the current-lynch, it doesn't do much good, now, does it? If it comes from someone who currently isn't in the spotlight, on the other hand, it provides valuable information.)

Then you need to ask other questions.

"When I don't flip wolf, what is the actual wolf-team?"

And debate that as well.


Simply put. OF COURSE THE GAME HAS FREAKIN' STALLED BY PUTTING

ONE

SINGLE PLAYER UNDER THE SPOTLIGHT WHEN WE SHOULD STILL BE EXAMINING OTHERS. I the current lynchee am apparently the only one doing so right now. Since of course I know that I'm not a wolf, and therefore that there are two wolves out there to catch.

Really, people. Not that hard to figure out.

[mastin2]

I have already explained that move in the past.

Spoiler: Slightly Incoherent Right Now

By the way, it wasn't from the moment I replaced in. It was after Day Four started that I thought of the idea. Tclaw was just coincidence which I used in the fakeclaim. After I read the post about checking into Nacho (which I did do, by the way--wasting hours of my time ON THE GUY WHO THE BLASTED WOLVES KILLED! >_<), I realized, "hey, that seems like a Cop 'Crumb!" and ran with it. Especially T-Bone claimed a result on me which couldn't have happened. I figured, "well, Gorilla's the scum who visited Nacho, which means he's lying about me and Implosion, so no harm in hinting at him being right."

Still workin' on the case. Five hours, I post what I've got.

But in the mean time. Let's do a little analysis. ASSUMING I AM SCUM (which I am not), Who Is The Other Wolf?

It cannot be ConSpiracy, Slaxx/Tclaw, Reckamonic, OR Singer, since I've pushed them all as scum.

This is important, because as scum, I don't bus. Why? Because when I bus, I have to follow through. Because I know as scum that to fake being town I need to tunnel. And if I bus, I need to fake tunneling on my buddies. In other words, that I need to see through to the very end that they're scum. That I have to push them without hesitation until they die.

Which is just BEGGING to be alone, something I've never historically handled well. Every single scum victory I have is due to the work of my buddies--NEVER that of my own, because I've never handled working by myself too well. In other words, I need my buddies alive to win, so I hate bussing them, since that means I have to bus them to death.

It can't be Zepher.

Since I cleared him, that'd mean that if we were both scum, I'd ensure he'd be lynched tomorrow. In other words, by clearing him, we'd be going 100%-we-live-or-we-die. But this hasn't been the case, as shown by Zepher's interest in lynching me. So it's not him.

...That really narrows it down quite a lot. In fact, that eliminates five of the seven others.

Leaving only Chronopie and Power as possible buddies.

Tell me, do either of those make sense?

Do explain.

Or if you don't think it's one of those two.

Explain how my logic is wrong on one of the five names I removed. Explain how they're scum with me, despite the evidence pointing to the contrary.

And if you can't do EITHER, guess what THAT means?

The truth begins to come to light, as you realize I DON'T have a scumbuddy.

(Still workin'.)

[mastin2]

Be right back--need caffeine in my system to pull through the night.

Again.

And make it 12 hours in five days, rather than four. (In five days, you should be getting ~40 hours of sleep. With another sleepless night working on this game, that'll mean I'm a day plus four hours short of my normal amount of sleep.
But worth it. I can sleep after I'm not lynched. Not a moment before then*.)

*...Which unfortunately means if I *am* lynched, I still won't sleep, since I'll be spending all night kicking myself in regret, thinking, "if only I had done a little more than what I had, we could've massacred the wolves. If only I had made a slightly different choice in my course of actions. If only..." And I won't forgive myself. Since this is pretty much a unique one in a million scenario. I'll never be placed in the same situation to what I'm in here, right now. (Nor would I ever want to be in this situation again. ) Failing would mean no repeats, no second chances, no opportunity to redeem myself in a future game, missing my one chance at this.
Yeah. I can't sleep until I see that the town has won this game. :/

[mastin2]

I've been weighing the pros and cons of doing this, but I've decided inevitably I'd regret it more if I didn't, than if I did.

I swear on my life, my honor, and my soul, that

I am

not

a wolf!

I'll explain why this is important in my next post.

[mastin2]

First off. Why I didn't do this immediately. "It Only Works Once, You Know. " Holds true for this game. I consider that sentence to be so strong, so powerful, that I never wanted to use it more than once. (If I did it every game where I was town, but refused to do it as scum, I'd eventually become the easiest-to-identify-scum-player-ever. )

I didn't want to use it, because I was intending on saving it for some later game. Yet I've used it here and now, since I decided there was no better time to do so. Because there'd be no other situation where those words would mean more to me, no possible situation close to what I'm in now.

Now, as to why those words are important.

In one of my novels, dealing with souls and the afterlife, where reincarnation is common, Death Is Cheap, people can survive things they shouldn't be able to, etc., breaking a promise made in such a matter

erases you from existence

. It's the ONLY way to end up Deader than Dead. Heck, in the story, people who've been dead (and presumed deader than dead) are actually alive thousands of years after they were destroyed. Even they dare not violate that promise, because it's the unbreakable rule. (Formed from a combination of things, by the way. All three pieces are important to me.)

Life--by stating you're willing to risk your life on something, you're ready to die if you are wrong, ready to let yourself be killed. Theoretically the weakest of the three, since getting killed in this case is a lynch. But when you realize that I'm sacrificing my Real Life activities, that I'm suffering in Real Life, you realize how it's just as important as the other two pieces. That I'm giving up everything I possibly can for this game.

Honor--the largest to me. I have a Code of Conduct I maintain in my games. I do not do certain things others probably would have no issues with, but I personally find abhorrent. For instance, cursing. I do not like vulgar words, to the point where this game marked the second time in my MafiaScum career (that's 35 games, mind you) that I had done so--with the previous curse being in my first game, and far more minor.

Heck. I even try to avoid FOREIGN curse words. No American would be offended by a lot of worse I know off the top of my head, but the potential to offend others is there, so I do not employ them.

That's just one of many. My rules, my code, are part of my Honor. I am a guy who is extremely Honorable, to the point of Honor Before Reason. I dislike lies, I dislike dishonesty, because they seem to...well, just be wrong. (That said, deception is fine, since it's manipulating, bending the truth, rather than flat-out breaking it. I'm a man of my word, but I'm quite the fan of Exact Words. )

Me playing on mastin2 and being on a self-inflicted MD ban is another, due to There Will Be Bloodshed. Would anyone care if I read MD, and contributed actively there? Would anyone care if I posted as Mastin, rather than mastin2?

Nobody else. But I would, because I made a promise, and to violate it would be to break my honor, shatter it and leave me with...what?
Nothing. Honor's huge for me.

Soul is, of course, one of the more subjective ones. I'm not a particularly religious guy, but I do believe in souls existing, and when I say, "I pour my heart and soul into the game", I really do mean it. Giving the game my essence, giving the game my spirit, who I really am.

To make an oath on one of these would be powerful, to me.

To make an oath on all of them is the strongest weapon I have.

[mastin2]

^And if you think I just BS'd that, you have something seriously wrong with your head.

I said, I swore, on the holy three things that I'm not a wolf. You might disagree with me, think those three things aren't nearly as valuable as I say they are.

But the important thing is that

I

believe they're that important, that I believe them to hold power, that I believe they are significant.

I'd given so much of my life, so much of my soul, and have a great deal of honor riding on this game already. The fact that I already had so much at stake is one of the main things which pushed me to make that post.

I am not a wolf.

I can say those words, now, without a reason, because they're being backed by that promise, that oath. (Do you want me to cut open my finger and add Blood to the mix? Make a Blood Oath that I'm not a Wolf?
I've mutilated myself in such a manner before to make a promise. And guess what? I kept it.

I really am that kind of guy, the person with that sense of Honor which goes beyond foolishness.)

Anyway, back to work.

[mastin2]

WARNING: WALL POST INCOMING

. (Below was typed out across the weekend, edited multiple times.)

Okay. I admit it. I haven't been working on the cases nearly as much as I should've been. But I was not slacking off in this game. Not by a long-shot. Simply put, I decided that in ADDITION to my offense, I also needed to work on my defense. The reason being, of course, well, that I'm not a Moron. Admit it: The MOMENT I posted the cases, you'd be FULLY intending to quicklynch me, under the mistaken impression I am of no further use to the rest of the town. (Heck, Slaxx PRETTY MUCH ADMITTED TO THIS VERY FACT IN HIS POSTS!)

Since I know that to be false, since I know I can still be of use, that I'm still valuable, it's my job to convince you of it in this post, in this massive wall, my best-constructed one ever, showing exactly why I'm not scum.

(Of course, my intention is to post it along-side with my cases, since I know for a fact that if I posted just defenses, you'd go, "You're never going to give us those cases, are you? VOTE: Mastin." And lynch me for that. In other words, I know that if I posted this defense by itself, I'd get lynched for not contributing the content I promised. If I posted the cases without this defense, I'd get lynched for apparently being of no further use.

In other words, a lose-lose scenario for me, since no matter what, people can hop onto my bandwagon with flimsy reasoning and not draw suspicion at all, because their reasons will seem justified to others. My hope was that by posting both at once, I'd eliminate the justifications for voting me, by both proving myself to still be useful, and delivering content.)


And here it is, my complete list of defenses. I've tried to cut out all the repetition, though it's kinda hard when I've been arguing the same thing and frustratingly watching nobody find a proper answer.



I really thought Gorilla was scum. Read my posts throughout pretty much the entire game for evidence of this--I'd been calling him scum for almost the entire time. I honestly believed he was fakeclaiming. (The fact that I used an unabbreviated BS pretty much confirms just how much I didn't believe him.) It was to the point where I was sure there was no actual cop in the game. I was dead-set to stop him, to the point where I was willing to risk my life on a gambit. I felt it was my DUTY to stop him from getting away with a fakeclaim.

Gorilla as scum made perfect sense: everything pointed to him, had things fall into place perfectly, as if all the pieces of the puzzle were forming a picture of his avatar. Gorilla as a cop was a fragmented maze I couldn't make sense of. I simply couldn't believe it--just no way he was the cop! Heck, even before I CC'd him, people weren't fully believing his claim. Evidence? How about from someone besides my usual quotes below?

(Come on, did any one think gorilla was cop?)

This is all the proof that I need to show how I was not alone in my suspicion. (Though in ConSpiracy's case, I think it's more like, "suspicion". If you catch my drift.)


It really looked like Gorilla was gambiting on there being no counter-claim, no actual cop. I legitimately believed that, so strongly, that I was positive I was doing the right thing in stopping him from getting away.

I'm an impulsive player by nature. (Obviously.) That's just what I do best: think of an idea--no matter how insane it seems to others--and stick to it until the end. (In this case, seeing my target--Gorilla--lynched.)

I took a gambit and it failed.

The reason I'm posting under my alt--mastin2--rather than my main--Mastin--is due to a failed gambit. I took a risk, which backfired horribly, but it was not a risk I would have taken as scum. (See below--motivation.) Specifically, in There Will Be Bloodshed, to protect a strong townread--Pine--from getting lynched, I took a gambit: I said, essentially, "If Pine is scum, I am permanently retiring from the name Mastin." Pine was being lynched at the time. That gambit completely halted his lynch, permanently. (Pine was scum, so I had to switch to mastin2.)

Same exact situation here, only reversal in my read:

To ensure a strong scum read got lynched, I took a gambit. Gorilla looked like he was going to get away with it and not be lynched. My gambit ensured he was going to be lynched.

I also self-voted in Mean Mod Mafia to stop a town-read from getting lynched. Gambits like the one I pulled off are risky, sure, but to defend my reads?

It's a risk I'm

more than willing to take

. It didn't work out this time, but that doesn't make me scum for a failed gambit. That'd make me scum in an unbelievably large number of games.


My mind does not work the same way as yours. A cop existing to me DIDN'T make sense. It felt too perfect, like it was too symmetrical, too convenient for it to be real. Like there should be some asymmetrical balance in the setup, which would make sense to me. Yes, it was a feeling, and I know now that I was wrong, but it should be quite obvious I did not think a cop existed--something only possible if I were town.

I was thinking the wolves would have stronger roles than the Mafia, and that would explain it. And the stronger roles would be justified by the fact that it's mafia on WEREWOLF Island. Not Werewolves on Mafia Island. Additionally, look how well the wolves have eluded the town compared to the mafia (DESPITE HAVING A FLIPPED WOLF TO CREATE CONNECTIONS TO!). How could that simply have been better play? Could the mafia have REALLY gotten that unlucky? Or was there more to it than that? Was it possible, that the wolves were stronger than the Mafia?

That's just how my mind works. I see things not in the way which is expected of me. I'm analytical, alright, but my analysis doesn't work the way people seem to expect it to.

How come it's so hard for you guys to believe that a guy who thinks in an ABNORMAL way made an UNUSUAL conclusion? It's my personality. I physically cannot think in the same way as normal people. It's just not possible.


I thought that--even if I was wrong and if a cop existed--they were smart enough not to counter-claim and were letting me do their work for them. Come on. You know smart cop play when you see two people claim your role is to just let them duke it out and lynch one another. You know that at least--if not both--one of them is scum. I figured if there was actually a cop and I was wrong about there being none, that they'd realize that my intention was to stop Gorilla from getting away with a fakeclaim. After all, Cop is the second-most-common scumclaim, right after "Doctor".


I'm really the doctor. Lowell protected Singersigner Night One and Two. You can see this in his reads, if you look, that he looked favorably on Shift, who she replaced.

Then I came in. I protected my own good reads. Tclaw was nights three and four. Last night, I protected Zepher, because he was cleared by Gorilla.

In other words, I claimed an easily-provable role, which has already had an influence on the night. Leaving me alive means that I can continue to prove my influence over the game, and therefore, that I'm not scum.


I cleared a player I had absolutely NO reason to clear if I was scum.

I have reason to believe my role has cleared someone who COULD HAVE been lynched today had I NOT claimed. True, it was quite doubtful that Zepher would get lynched...but it was possible. Now it isn't. That's a success.



I had every reason to protect Zepher. He really was my best choice. Everyone else (except for Chronopie who I had forgotten about) was out of the question as being kill options, and I impulsively followed the instinct that Zepher needed to live.

And no one explained why there was only one kill?

I did. But people seem to be conveniently ignoring that a Doctor Protect makes more sense than a Roleblock or No-Kill.
I am claiming responsibility for the lack of Wolf Kill. The wolves wanted to take someone out who was confirmed not-mafia--Zepher. They knew it was doubtful he'd be lynched after being half-cleared by Gorilla.

The wolves don't want Wolf Hunting. They want to get rid of the Mafia. They want to postpone the wolf-hunting as much as they can. And if people started Mafia Hunting, they'd call Zepher 'not-mafia', and therefore 'not-lynchable'.

I predicted this, and I was apparently correct.


Why was the Werewolves' kill missing last night? Mafia Roleblocker? And who exactly might the mafia have blocked, eh? Would the wolves really send ME to kill? Heck no. "Well, then, the Mafia just blocked your partner!" Alright, then. Said Mafiate would know that said blocked player was a confirmed wolf. And would either be voting and/or heavily suspicious of them today. Who fits the profile? Who do you think is Mafia that has shown SIGNIFICANT suspicion to someone other than myself? Anyone?

...No?

...Yeah, didn't think so. Simply because they don't exist. Mafia Roleblocker was NOT the reason their kill was absent.


Do you really think that I'm a wolf who intentionally no-killed in a One-in-a-million gambit to save my life? Or can you accept for maybe a moment I stopped the kill...and the wolves know I did, and want me dead so they can try again.

Zepher's opinion on the matter backs this up. (I'd use more than Zepher if there was more than just Zepher who've defended me. )

If he were the last wolf, he wouldn't have much to gain in a no kill; at least not from what I can see. Especially coming into the day with ridiculous amounts of suspicion.

This is so true, it's kinda painful to see just how much of it is unaddressed.


This is backed up by my "meta". Yes, I know reading my past games is a pain, due to me walling even more in them (if that even seems possible ) than I do presently, so despite this evidence being readily available, you will not confirm it for yourself. Yes, I know meta is not that valuable of a tool when the player in question is aware of their meta and therefore can manipulate it.

But certain things go BEYOND Meta. What do I mean by that? Some things are part of my core personality, WHO I AM AS A PLAYER. Things which--across games, across SITES--remains the same. Refusal to not kill is among those things, because I see it as going against my win condition as scum. It is part of my core belief to not No-Kill. Yes, I've considered it in the past--once--when I was scum. I concluded then,

and every game since then

, that

if I WERE to No-Kill, it would

not

be of benefit to my alignment and therefore is a taboo

.

Come on. Surely you should know the difference between Meta and Personality. One can change. The other cannot. I cannot No-Kill as scum. It goes against my very principles. It goes against my beliefs, my core values as scum. It goes against my set of honor codes. And if there's one thing you should know about me by now, it's that I tend to be a man of my word whenever I can be. Going against my honor code is just abhorrent.


But let's put aside my core personality and assume somehow that I went against my VERY BELIEFS AS A SCUM PLAYER. Just for a moment. Think about the logic. Rather, the lack of it. It's a dual-faction game. Two scum-factions, two kills during the night. Meaning, as a wolf, there's ALWAYS the risk of being killed by the mafia IN ADDITION to the risk of being lynched. Not killing intentionally, despite the fact that the other faction most certainly will be killing intentionally--possibly hitting me or my scumbuddy--is flat-out going against the wolf wincon. The wolves want as many people who are not themselves dead as they possibly can. A no-kill WOULD be suicidal.

Going against my established meta and personality. Assuming I somehow didn't think it was against my win condition to not kill as a wolf. That's already a huge assumption, no? But it gets worse. How would I manage to convince my PARTNER of this as well? How could I convince them to sacrifice a kill for a One-In-A-Million shot of me living?

I'm not that charismatic. Historically, my choice for scum kills has always been overridden by my scumbuddies. I've never selected a kill unless I was the only scum alive. Unless you think I suddenly overrode my scumbuddy, unless you think I magically gained the ability to convince my buddy, when that's historically an ability I have ALWAYS lacked, well, then, I'm honored you think I'm that forceful a scum player. (Nope, not really. I'm a pushover. Buddies always tell me what to do, and I do it.)

Occam's razor comes into play.

Which is simpler? I'm the Doctor, who successfully protected Zepher, clearing him of being a wolf...

...Or that I'm a Werewolf, who went against my normal meta, doing a play which I see as blatantly against my win condition, managed to FURTHER go against my past record and convince my scumbuddy to go along with this crazy plan, all for the sake of a Gambit which has a One-In-A-Million chance of success?


I'm a ripe mislynch for the wolves. They're LAUGHING right now, going, "Thanks, Mastin, for getting us into lylo flawlessly!" I realize you might think this is the "too scummy to be scum" argument, but think about it from a Wolf Perspective with Mastin-As-Town: They see a player who they know is an easy mislynch, and will get them into lylo easily because of a bad play he made. Simply put, I'm the wolves' dream come true, right now. I'm apparently so scummy that I've only got a couple sympathizers whose support in me is rapidly fading. What does that tell you?

Generally--I know, you're free to disbelieve me if you want, but it IS my experience--the townspeople mislynched are the people universally thought of as scum, like I am right now. VI-lynches, Newb-Lynches, etc. It's the people who receive OBJECTIONS to their lynch which tend to be the scum. Not universal objections, and not necessarily from their scumbuddies--but a strong opposition to their lynch, convinced they're not the lynch for the current day.

This might've been true at the start of the day (with Zepher, potentially Chronopie as well), but I've seen it in their posts, their fading belief, their fading hope that I'm town vanishing with every minute that passes by.


The reasons on me are practically non-existent. I quote from Zepher on this.

There's not enough reasoning behind it, and we can't afford to lose more town than we're probably already going to lose.

We WILL lose the game if you lynch me. We've got three suspects, and three lynches. Just barely enough to make it through. If you lynch me--the horribad fourth suspect--you've reduced your odds of finding wolves from 100% to a mere 66%.


If I were scum, who would my buddy be?

Zepher, who I cleared? Powerrox, who I've been calling town the whole game? Singer, who I've called Mafia the whole time? Tclaw/Slaxx, who I ALSO have been defending, since before tclaw claimed? And is my current #3? Reckamonic, who would currently be my choice for number two?

Simply put, nobody makes sense as being my scumbuddy, because I'm not scum.


I got to L-1 mere hours after day opened.

Tell me there's no scum in there. Tell me I'm scum and that FOUR OUT OF FIVE pro-town players alive voted me. We only have five alive.

Eight players alive, and 5-2-1. If I'm scum, for the wagon to be town requires the town to have reached a unanimous decision on who is scum, something which never happens in such a small period of time.

The wagon was unnaturally fast. mastin2 - 4 (Chronopie, Reckamonic, Powerrox, ConSpiracy)
^Look at those names. Are they all town? Are you magically the fifth pro-town player, with me and the two others not voting mastin2 scum?
Heck no. 8 alive, and half on the wagon, when we have only 5 town? There's 2 scum in there. Both wolves, pretty much guaranteed. And if both wolves are there, that means I can't be one, now, can I?

It's a forced scum quickwagon that developed unnaturally. It has no flow to it, because people're pushing it too hard. The scum know if the wagon falls apart completely and loses momentum, it won't get started again. It's impossible, simply because I'm not scum and the pieces of the puzzle will slowly fall into place for the whole entire town and they'll know I'm not today's lynch.

If there's one thing I know, it's types of wagons. A quickwagon is forced, and therefore almost universally contains scum, and is pretty universally on town. A slower, more natural wagon which grows with time is almost always on scum.

And I'm not the only one who thinks this. I quote Zepher again for evidence.

This is completely scum driven right out of the night phase.

It really is.


I did not hammer when I was put at L-1. Let's consider a moment, Mastin as Scum. He's caught, about to be lynched. But wait, what's this? The town wants discussion! They're looking to find his buddy TODAY, rather than waiting until tomorrow! Now, scum-mastin can't have that, can he?
In other words, I WERE scum, I'd self-hammer, ending the day prematurely to cut off discussion so nobody could find my buddy.

Since I had the chance to do so yet neglected to indulge, it proves I am town because to have NOT self-hammered as scum would've been against my wincon. Whereas self-hammering AS town WOULD be against my wincon. Therefore, I've proven myself not scum by not hammering, since by extending the day and giving the town extra daytime, I'm begging them to find my buddy.


Motivation. Dear Lorithia,

MOTIVATION

, PEOPLE!

It's, like, one of the classic things used in all those stereotypical crime shows, you know: Motive for the Murder.

Why would I counter-claim the cop as scum? I had no reason to. Especially since I ALSO would know that Gorilla's telling the truth about his claim, and therefore it'd guarantee my lynch today. I took a gambit which would have been a GUARANTEED loss if I were scum. Eliminating a guy who is of no threat to me but could be of use to me.

(How sow? Gorilla Mafia Hunting would only BENEFIT my faction. Think about it--Gorilla potentially falseclearing [semi-clearing] a wolf would work wonders for us. Gorilla getting a guilty would secure a legitimate lynch we could get behind without suspicion, just like the Garm-SK-wagon. If I were a wolf, Gorilla was of more use to me as an Un-CC'd cop than he was to me lynched.)

In other words, I'd flat-out be playing against my wincon by CC'ing as scum. (But not against my win condition as town.)

Compare that to why I would counter-claim the cop as town. I didn't believe him to be the cop. I I'm CC'ing the guy I have believed to be scum since pretty much the moment I replaced in. I didn't think I'd lose. I think that he's lying, that HE is taking a gambit about there being no real cop in the game, and I'm seeing him get away with it! I had a darn-good reason, and I legitimately thought it was right and therefore that I would not be lynched.

Tell me what my scum motivation is for my play yesterday. Heck, tell me what my scum motivation is for my play at ANY point in the game. You won't find any, because put simply, THE WOLF ACTIONS MAKE NO SENSE COMING FROM ME.

Another way to word Motivation is "Benefit". Profit, Gain, whatever. As scum, I'm CC'ing a role WHICH IS OF NO THREAT TO ME. What's the benefit in there? What do I gain by CC'ing the cop? Ab-so-lute-ly NO-THING. I'd get lynched for CC'ing someone I know is the cop. Where's the Profit in getting lynched?


Gambiting scum MIGHT have CC'd if the claim came a day later. (That is, today, rather than yesterday.)

Gambiting town, on the other hand, didn't care about such things.


How I've played. In a multi-faction game, aggressively scumhunting and PUMMELING my scumreads as scum is asking to be NK'd, and it's flat-out suicidal to do so. More than that, this is ESPECIALLY true considering I was correct about BOTH my main Mafia suspects--simply put, the Mafia had good reason to want me dead, and I wouldn't mind if I were town, but it'd be a serious problem if I were scum; I wouldn't want that as a wolf.

I attacked BOTH Nacho AND T-Bone, and have also been attacking singer pretty hard. Tell me that I pushed them and magically nailed the other scumteam as a wolf, when as scum the proper play would've been to slowly push my reads, rather than forcefully shove them on others.


I have put way too much effort into this game. Why would I throw it all away on a claim? Instead, I very easily could've just manipulated the circumstances to my advantage. I could've done any number of things to convince the town to lynch Gorilla if I wanted him dead that badly, or I would have let him live. All that effort would've been wasted if I were scum and counter-claimed him, because that meant everything I had fought for would be destroyed the moment he didn't flip werewolf.

Compare that to if I were town, who has devoted more time to the game than pretty much anyone else. On average, I'm doing at least three hours a day on this game, but I think it'd probably be closer to six hours a day, on average. I've been putting my heart and soul into this game, have been giving it everything I've got, to catch the scum. I saw something which THREATENED to undo everything I had worked for--Gorilla claiming to be the cop, when I thought Gorilla was scum--and I realized that I needed to counter-claim him to SAVE that effort.

The difference between the two is quite clear: As scum, I literally just threw the game away and all my work was for nothing. As town, I was--in my mind--PREVENTING my work being lost, having it be for nothing.


The wolves know my claim is true.

At least, the role part. They KNOW I stopped the wolf kill, and they KNOW that I am a serious threat to them right now. That if I am not mislynched today, that they will be screwed.

Additionally, Since I am a doctor, I--like Gorilla--can target Reckamonic, and if I don't die, Reckamonioc's scum. The wolves fear that I'll confirm who the scum are.

More than that. It's possible the wolves think I'm the last Mafia, and want to get rid of me. The reason why is simple: As Mafia, I'd have reason to counterclaim the cop. As Mafia, the role of Doctor is possible. As Mafia, they know that if I live, I'd be shooting for wolves, not town, and therefore, that I could jeopardize their position.

Let's say the wolves have the roleblocker, too. This is then doubly-confirmed, by the fact that they think a Doctor counters their role, and they might've blocked someone they THOUGHT was the last mafia and turned out to be wrong.

I'm not the last mafia, of course--that's most likely singersigner--but it's possible.


I'll be dead soon enough. I'm a claimed doctor. The wolves know that if they don't lynch me today, they'll have to NK me tonight, anyway, because if I stop another one of their kills, they're REALLY screwed, beyond what they are right now. Simply put, I'm going to be killed by them tonight, ANYWAY, so lynching me today IS DOING THE WOLVES ONE

HUGE

FAVOR

. Beyond that, look at my plan to protect Reckamonic. If Reckamonic's somehow town, guess who's dead tonight?

In other words, I'm dead by night actions. No need to rush what will happen tonight naturally.

More than that, Zepher's correct.

Mastin is a lynch for tomorrow should we decide it works out. IT'S NOT SMART FOR TODAY.

I am not the smart lynch for today. I'm dead tonight, and if I somehow lived, well, then I'm dead tomorrow. In other words, I'm dead already, so why waste a lynch on me today?


My role also is evidence I'm not scum. Doctor can't be on the same team as Watcher, since they're redundant.



TL;DR? How about a summary?

-Pushing someone I thought was scum, convinced they were lying scum, and that letting them live would be irresponsible.
-My gambit failed, but had only town motivation in mind.
*Motivation is a key part in my defense, if you couldn't tell, popping up pretty much just as often if not moreso than "personality".

-Clearing someone I had no reason to clear as scum.
-Proven role.
-Role is mutually exclusive with wolves.
-Claiming responsibility for the missing kill.

* Mafia Roleblocker? Alright, who's the Mafia, and who did they block, which they'd know to be confirmed scum, today? There isn't anyone who fits the profile.

*Scum No-Killing?

~Goes against not only my established meta, but ALSO my CORE PRINCIPLES AS SCUM.
~Might be logical in a single-faction game, but in a double-faction game where my teammate (or myself) is at risk of NOT ONLY being lynched, but ALSO of being NK'd by the Mafia, No-Killing is seriously jeopardizing my team.
~I would have to convince my buddy to go through with it as well.

-Taking a gambit which as scum could ONLY result in a loss, whereas when town, the gambit makes perfect sense.
-Fastwagon on me proves I'm not scum and that scum are on me.
*I'm a ripe mislynch. Admit it, it's

too

easy to lynch me right now for me to be scum.

-Lack of self-hammer when I had the chance.
-Aggressive scumhunting.
-Weak reasons to vote me. (See below.)

-We have three lynches, including today. And three suspects, other than myself: ConSpiracy, Reckamonic, and Tclaw/Slaxx. If I die today, then I KNOW for a fact that we're down to two lynches, with only a 66% accuracy. If we lynch one of THEM today, then we're still at 100% guaranteed victory. (I realize this is my weakest point in my defense, since it relies on seeing things from my perspective, but you should still understand where I'm coming from with this.)

-Scumbuddies. Who would be mine? Nobody fits. Because I've been going solo this whole game, and therefore, have nobody to be with.

-Timing of my gambit. I did not claim when scum would.

-Effort Wasted. CC'ing cop is a death-sentence as scum. All my work is thrown away in an instant by that completely unnecessary claim.

-The Wolves Know My Claim Is True. So are more determined to lynch me today, since they KNOW I am not lying.
*More than that, they're terrified, panicking that I can pull this off and get THEM lynched rather than myself.

-I'm dead tonight, regardless. Put bluntly, the wolves CanNOT afford to leave me alive another night, so lynching me today saves them the trouble of NK'ing me tonight.


The TL;DR version of this is that there's no logical way to make me scum.




Compare to this, the complete list of offenses.

I CC'd a real cop.
True. But WHY? See many of the points in my defense on this subject.

Therefore most plausible conclusion is Mastin = Scum.

From the above. Plausible is not confirmed.

I took a huge gambit.
And it's harder to see this as a town gambit than a scum gambit...why?

"Mastin should really stop saying he cleared Zepher when Zepher was cleared by Godzilla yesterday."
Zepher was semi-cleared, but still could've been a wolf, WHO WE ARE TRYING TO LYNCH TODAY. I DID clear Zepher.

"it wouldn't be difficult for Mastin wolf to no-kill and say he's a doc." Only, to do so I'd have to go against my established meta and MY VERY CORE PRINCIPLES AS A MAFIA PLAYER, and THEN convince my buddy to go through with a One-In-A-Million move. See above.

"WIFOM!"
^Anything can be called WIFOM.

Anything

. There comes a time where you need to realize that there's a difference between the types of WIFOM. There are certain types of WIFOM which are beneficial. Like, NK analysis--WIFOM, sure, but can potentially nail the scum. My WIFOM is not the bad type. I've explained in a quite clear, logical manner why my reasons hold more value than being just "WIFOM", and this is the best answer I can get. Because they can't think of a way to degrade the valuable points, other than relying to this classic overused word. Really. If the best counter-argument to my defense is, "WIFOM!", it's code for, "okay, I don't know what makes you scum anymore, but it has to be something!" (Yeah...WIFOM attacks are a sign of desperation. Both from panicked scum and from confused tunneling town who're wondering why my points are actually making SENSE*.)

"You're a better player than what we've seen this game."
And if you believe that, you remember the wrong Mastin. I was a VI. I still am, in many ways, and have attempted to solve the problem, but I still make mistakes.

"Hypocrisy. You tried to push the ConSpiracy wagon when you accused ConSpiracy of pushing yours."
Nope. I specifically said I thought a ConSpiracy wagon would develop on its own without encouragement. I specifically said that I thought that ConSpiracy would be lynched in a natural manner given time, rather than the forced, artificial lynch attempt on me.

"You're scum who cleared Zepher."
It'd be far simpler to claim Mason with Zepher. It'd use the exact same logic. Trying to clear both Zepher and I. It also has the exact same flaws: if either of us dies, so does the other, the immediate phase after the other. In a single-faction game, such a claim could theoretically be feasible. In a double-faction game, claiming masons will get you killed by the other faction, and screw your team over. Same logic applies to doctor, clearing Zepher. It might work as a gambit in a single-faction game, but in a double-faction game, it's begging to get nightkilled by the opposite scum faction.

"Meta is Invalid, and you use it too much."
Well, 1: I use Meta a lot. It's not scummy; it's pretty null. And 2: What I use in my defense goes beyond the deepness of meta. It covers the very core essence of who I am as a player, and just how

wrong

these actions would be coming from scum-Mastin.

Meta and Personality aren't the same thing. I rely on my past games, since I know they'll depict me for who I really am, the Honorable Guy who has a Strong Code of Conduct. Which is distinctly different from relying on my past games to say, "see, I acted like this as town, and like this as scum, so because my play's more like the former, I'm town!" (That's classic Meta Defense. This is not a Meta Defense. This is a Personality Demonstration. For instance, Reckamonic pointed out correctly that I am bad at summarizing--that's part of who I am, something which can never change, not part of my meta, which I can manipulate at will.)

How others perceive my counters?
"1. That is not something I would do"
^If it's Meta, sure, this is worthless. (See above.) If it's personality, however, it holds true, and is evident enough that I can confidently declare it as such. No problem here.
"2. Sorry, I was wrong"
^Deals with one specific subject. That being, Gorilla. In which, I was wrong. Doesn't make me scum.
"3. I had some feeling"
^I'm an impulsive player who frequently employs something which is similar to gut but runs deeper inside of me. Which allows me to get stronger reads than most people. When I get a feeling, I cannot ignore it. It's my personality.
"4. Something happened + I am the only one with an explanation for it (how weird it may be) = I am right."
^Well, duh. I figured out what happened. It doesn't matter how crazy it sounds. Doesn't mean it's false.
"5. Let's just make a long text to show I am right"
^My title is "Unabridged" for a reason. I didn't earn that for my posting style as scum. I earned that for my general posting style, my very form as a Mafia Player.

"Risky gambit as doc is risky."
Yeah. And Risky Gambit As VT is Risky. As in, Risking My Main on a townread is Risky, too. Was I scum, there? Nope, just town who was wrong. Risky gambits are just what I do.

"Scum aggressively scumhunt, too!"
In a single-faction game, of course they do. It's pretty null, and if this were a single-faction game, I'd never consider it a town-tell.
But this is a DOUBLE-faction game. Where if you're aggressive, you get KILLED during the night, something scum don't want but town wouldn't mind. My evidence is--of course--Nacho, and perhaps T-Bone (until his last day, anyway) as well. I know Nacho. He is SUPER-aggressive as town, and normally is as scum, too. This game, he lurked. Why? Fear of nightkill, of course. Plenty of townfolk didn't lurk, however, and pushed hard. They were rewarded with death for their valiant efforts.

"You're just scum, okay?!?"
^This paraphrases a lot of the case against me. Funnily enough, it's also hypocritical of those who say that I'm merely stating, "I'm just not scum, alright?" When I back it up with plenty of reasons. When faced with these reasons, this is pretty much the best they can come up with. I'll quote if I have to, but I would prefer not to.


*The points, of course, make sense because they come from someone who is not lying, and is telling the absolute truth. Truth is far more deadly a weapon than any lie.



The True TL;DR of this all?

People are nitpicking details which "don't add up" to them, ignoring the grander picture painting that I am town. They're ignoring anything which contradicts with the view "Mastin is Scum" when I have had multiple points which've never been countered, and even the ones which HAVE been countered I then re-countered and proved still valid, something everyone is ignoring.


Yes. I wrote a fifteen-page essay on exactly why I am town. Yes. It took me nearly 48 hours to do.

[mastin2]

^So, yeah. That was obviously intended to be posted along with the cases, but I'm at L-1, and I might be hammered before the cases are finished. By posting that, I'm hoping to--at the very least--delay the lynch on me until I've finished the cases.

Additionally, a lot of my points in there are summaries, which I can bring up a lot of additional points for.
Motivation.
Aggressive Scumhunting Getting You Killed In A Multi-Faction Game (I've seen it recently!)
The quotes I offer to bring up take me less than ten minutes to locate.
The offense against me being pathetically weak compared to the defensive points MORE than countering them.

List goes on and on. Simply put, I tried to be as concise as possible in that wall, and structured it in a neat, formatted, organized manner. I considered adding in the above stuff, but again, woulda just cluttered it when I was trying to in the briefest method possible explain exactly why I'm not a wolf.

[mastin2]

I wanted a case on other people for wolf not for you being town.

Then unvote me and let me finish, before someone hammers. I've been working on the cases non-stop for a long time. I want to see them through.

I can't do that if you lynch me, first.

Ninja'd.

[mastin2]

For the record, my defense took me less than ten minutes to read. I realize I'm a fast reader (comes naturally, when you do a lot of online reading, writing, and critiquing), but that means it shouldn't take anyone more than 20 minutes to read.

I also took as many steps as I could to ensure the paragraphs weren't solid blocks of text, but rather, divided into small, easy to read sections. I tried to make them organized in such a way where you could see I was transitioning from one thought to another, while simultaneously trying to directly go from one into the other so you could see a gradual shift in thought processes rather than abruptly going from this thought, to another one, to a completely different one, to a thought resembling an earlier one but different enough for its own section, etc.

It's still a Wall, of course, and still a pain to read, but as far as walls go, that really is the best one I've ever made formatting-wise. (It should be, considering the time I wasted on making it. )

Since I have taken care of all my obligations, I'm resuming.

[mastin2]

Unless, you know, you're confirmed town and scum have no choice but to kill you tonight.

Just sayin.

Hey, Singer.

Zepher.

We need to decide on one of Reckamonic and ConSpiracy and vote there.

Not divide ourselves on two wagons.

[mastin2]

Almost forgot.

Spoiler: Responding to Powerrox

@Cop CC gambit and such:
Did you SRSLY belive that this kind of game would only feature a way to get investigations on werewolves, but not on the mafia?

Yeah.

I explained my logic for thinking about that before. It was specifically because I was so analytical that I came to the conclusion.

the game would be so unbalanced if that was the truth, even if the werewolves has more PR's to compensate for that.

I fail to see how. Asymmetrical Balance can be pulled off by a skilled Mod just as well as Symmetrical Balance. Wolf-Seer to counter stronger Wolf-PRs made perfect sense to me.

Cop Second-Most Common Fakeclaim: This is just common sense. Due to how most people start playing in Newbies, the two roles they are exposed to the most are...Cop, and Doctor. This carries over to their play elsewhere, where their first instinct is to fakeclaim one of those two roles.

Explanation on Zepher: It's in one of my posts. I'll see if I can track it down.

Considering what gambits you took earlier I think it's plausible that you could've no-killed

And then you're not listening. Not listening to Motive, not listening to Personality (which goes deeper than Meta), not listening to Meta (specifically, how things have gone for me as scum in past games, things out of my control: scumbuddies overriding me, in particular), not listening to me ranting about it being against my Win Con in multiple ways...

Flat-out not listening.

If you are town (Which I'm now 99.99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999% you aren't)

Ah, the sign of a tunneling townie. Puting anything higher than 95%.

Helpful hint, above 90% means you're in warning territory, where it's possible you're tunneling, but it's also possible that you've got a strong scumread.
95% is the limit to this, where you could have a really, REALLY strong scumread, but more than likely you're beginning to go into the tunnel.

More than 95% pretty much is your way of confirming what everyone else already knows:

"I'm tunneling on Mastin, badly."

99.manynines% is the ultimate expression of "I wouldn't care if this guy was cop-confirmed innocent; he's still scum to me!" level of tunneling. It's also the, "I don't have any other suspects, and I have no clue who his buddies are, but he's still scum!" level of tunneling.

In other words, it proves Power's town, but he's being a moron and might cost us the game if he doesn't see the light.

[mastin2]

ConSpiracy Case:

First off,

Spoiler: Personal Reference

Thor/Seraphim, Eldritch Lord/Max, Nacho, C-worl, and Zepher have all been attacked by the wolves, in that order. I'm ignoring their roles, since the wolves (presumably) do not know them.

I find that creating a list like this is helpful for keeping the knowledge fresh in mind, having it as a convenient reference point at the top of my post. It's not part of the case--at least, not yet. But looking at this list can help me observe interactions with the killed player in ADDITION to the people I'm making my cases against, to better comprehend why they died.

RayFrost, you have done your job quite well, we found the scumjoiner in the wagon. Come over to this wagon now.

Creates an RF-ConSpiracy link.

SCUM:
C-Worl

ConSpiracy

jindori
kr0b
Pine
SnakePlissken

tclawren

This is one of Nacho's most content-full posts. Makes me think he was killed for it, really. Note the bolded. I don't think BOTH are scum, but I DO think ONE of them is scum.

Pine - 8 (bristep123, ConSpiracy,

Nobody Special, C-Worl,

Nachomamma8

, Chronopie, tclawren,

Nero Cain

) L-5
C-Worl - 8 (RayFrost,

Seraphim,

jindori

, SnakePlissken, MaxKojote, Pine, Lucresia,

[Moonstruck]

) L-5
Nobody Special - 3 (Lowell, Kise, implosion)
implosion - 1 (gorilla)
Nero Cain - 1 (T-Bone)

Not voting - 3 (kr0b

, Shift,

MrZepher

)

For this, you'd expect one scum from each faction on each of these major wagons, along with one scum hanging off. Tclaw OR ConSpiracy BOTH work for this theory. (Though obviously not both are scum.)

@jindori, have you played mafia before on another site?

Rayfrost, let's focus on one at the time. Come join us.

Seems like buddying to both the other scum.

Jindori's response immediately following it seems to pretty much confirm this.

I love this post. It doesn't explain at all why T-bone said 3 or 4.
jindori, you were right with your slip. Care to explain T-bone?

Quite blatant buddying with Jindori.

Sooo, I have not much to say other than T-Bone being incredibly annoying. That reminds me of the other game we played in together.
I would like to vote for Chronopie, since the Pine wagon doesn't turn up as I hoped it would, but seeing as T-bone already voted for him...
I will wait for some extra activity around Pine first.

And I just read that we need 13 to lynch. Holy sh*t! That is enough people to start a mini!

This is doubly-scummy. Why? It's a double-scumtell, that's why!
1: Fencesitting. Does not take a strong stance either way.
2: Active lurking. This post had zero content.

ok noob question what happens when we drop below 13.

Jindori was paying particularly close attention to ConSpiracy's posts, as shown by him responding to this specifically.

Why is this important?


Well, like I said yesterday, Gorilla's wrong about how newb-scum work. Newb-scum pay PARTICULAR attention to their scumbuddies, ESPECIALLY ones which're far more experienced than they are. Jindori's interactions with RayFrost and ConSpiracy are seriously condemning evidence.

I love the question, especially when you just answered it yourself.
And I love you saying that I am hesistant to place a second vote on a wagon. Especially after you accused us in a rude way of not reading the mod's posts properly.

Can we have some less spammers and some more lurkers in here please? This game is just a wishy-washy of players rambling around.

Yet another incidence of active lurking from ConSpiracy!





RayFrost/Reckamonic Case:

Vote: MaxKajote

I have it on good authority that Max is scum. This is 100% serious. Discuss.

P.S.: C-Worl and Nero cain are both town.

While I believe tclaw is town, this is POTENTIAL evidence that tclaw isn't.

If Tclaw were a wolf-neighbor with Max, he might have said as much in the wolf-QT, which could've led RayFrost to the conclusion Max was scum.

Interesting is that RF calls C-worl town, and he was later a wolf kill.

C-worl's dislike of RF (post #14 in-thread) adds credence to this idea. Interestingly enough, it would appear that RF's slot has had it in for my slot since the very beginning.

Max has confirmed himself as scum, as has lowell. I'm not playing around.

I don't know about you, but when I replace in, I tend to take what my replacement said with a grain of salt. They might not make the move you think is best (if you replace in as scum) or might not be correct (if you're town), but if you understand the reasons behind their actions, then your view of the thread will improve. Meaning that Reckamonic would have reasons--perhaps an excuse, really--to vote for me based off of predecessor.

If that makes sense. It's a logical enough idea to ME!

Game = Broken. Requesting re-roll where I'm not a multi-shot daycop with n1 kill immunity, kthx.

This particular RVS-Shenanigans post tripped my gut before, to the point where I was convinced RF was scum until I saw the PGO claim. It just...

sounds

wrong. There's town ways to screw around in the RVS, but this does not seem like how.

MORE than that, there's also the fact that he was trying to give the impression he was dead-serious before...and then screws around like this. A contradiction which I never noticed before, but now that I see it is blatantly there.

RayFrost - 2 (

Kise, C-Worl)
Shift - 1 (gorilla)
gorilla - 1 (Nobody Special)
bristep123 - 1 (SnakePlissken)

MaxKojote - 1 (RayFrost)
Nobody Special - 1 (

Lowell)
Chronopie - 1 (MaxKojote)
kr0b - 1 (Nero Cain)

I find it EXTREMELY difficult to believe EVERYONE voting at this stage in the game is town. Yet RF--who Reckamonic replaced--is the only player there whose alignment isn't confirmed, already.

And Ray is clearly scum for spelling my name wrong. HE SHALL BE PUNISHED BY DEATH INVOLVING PARIS HILTON.

I know, Max got replaced, but still, his viewpoints might have influenced the game.

It seems my clever plot to indicate my (

scum

) daykill to the mod since I have to post it ITT has been foiled....

I had missed a word in here my first time around. You see a player messing around, null.

I see a player messing around, dropping a hint to his role, since he knows people will consider it null.

It makes sense to me for RF to do as scum, to leave a hint behind to his true role. (Fun fact: I tend to leave subtle crumbs when I'm scum that I'm actually scum. Nobody ever picks them up, though, because they're incredibly subtle. They call me scum for plenty of other reasons, just my 'crumbs are never among 'em.
I figure I can't be the only one, and when I saw RF's post, it looked like a way to do that. To use the mask of the RVS.)

C-Worl: it is more polite to type Mod: Nero voted krob rather than caps and quoting.

Condescending coaching, reads bad to me, since it seems like scum-coaching-town.

Your logic is fallacious, but you are town... again. How annoying.

Anyone else see the problem, here? He's annoyed by someone being town using faulty logic, because he thinks they're town. Call it language filters, but to me, that really read as "Dang it, I want to mislynch you so badly but you ARE a mislynch and I can't get away with it!" That's really what I'm seeing. Perhaps not that extreme, but you get the idea. It seemed like RF was leaving open the possibility of a lynch, while if, say, a lynch DID go through, RF could say "saw that coming". Effectively, a form of fence-sitting, kinda.

I rescind my C-Worl town comment.

Unvote, Vote: C-Worl - Not a policy vote. I've actually got a scum read here.

This confirms that RF's early seriousness was, indeed, actually serious. Let me sum up RF's RVS play:

Serious, Joking, and back to Serious.

You can't have the best of both worlds, man. Heck, you can't go serious to joking, yet alone, serious to joking and back again.

(Obviously, you can go joking to serious; that's how the RVS ends. But other than that...)

More than that, RF saying he had a legitimate scumread on C-worl ALSO implies that his earlier scumreads WEREN'T legitimate, trying to pass them off as a joke, when his post here clearly shows he was serious when he said he was.

See where I'm going with this?

The whole RF-Cworl debate seems off by itself. And this isn't even to the end of page two. Read it, and tell me "looks natural to me". I want to hear someone say that 25-44 between the two looks like two townies fighting it out.

I can't pin down the exact reasons the debate looks so off, but it does look like there's something wrong in there. Rereading it and with the knowledge that C-worl is town, I honestly don't think you'll see it as being town-on-town.


(NOTE: This is where I stopped, and asked for advice. Chronopie--who I believe to be town--telling me to keep on going was all I needed to resume.)

I find nothing wrong with RayFrost in post #36. Nothing. I don't see anything town in it, but I don't see it as scummy. It's not tripping my gut at all, and I do it as both alignments. The only thing scummy is the overall C-worl interaction, which this post is a part of, so yeah, nothing scummy in that particular post.

You've both failed at the diting and failed at seeming town when you are scum.

It's not the coaching which makes this scummy. It's not the condescendence which makes this post scummy. (That'd be a bit hypocritical of me. ) It's their combination.

Now, be a good little scum and out your buddies to make it easier on all of us.

I don't know what. Call it gut, if you really must. But SOMETHING in this wording makes me believe RF somehow

knew

there were only three scum total on a team. I know. It sounds crazy. But something in there really makes it seem like that RF wasn't thinking of a team larger than three, nor a team smaller than three. (That would've been "buddy".)

Which at that stage in the game could pretty much only come from scum.

In 44, I find something off, but I can't pin it down. Normally, with gut, I can generally get a sentence in mind which I THINK is what's tripping my gut. I cannot for this one.

Something in the tone of his words in 46 seems off, too. (See? A little more specific: I know it's his tone, specifically, which is making my gut go wild. )

Lynching scum's fun too. Let's try it.

Same exact thing here, too.

Also. I just noticed another contradiction.

Nothing to do with your pitiful attempt at copying Fate, by the way.

Now, I've never actually played with Fate (amazing, really. I really thought by now I woulda run into him once or twice, but nope, just seem him around a lot), but to my knowledge, he tends to lock onto scumreads kinda early, does he not?

Something RF just himself was doing?

See where this logic is heading?

Reasons why you're mafia:
1. OMGUS reaction to my vote on you.
2. Over defending yourself.

These are both valid points against RayFrost, and Reckamonic by extension.

Vote: C-Worl

RayFrost, let's do this.

Interesting, in that Seraphim agreed with RayFrost. (Keep in mind, Thor never got a chance to get into the game before he was killed, which means the scum either killed him because they were afraid of him, or due to his predecessor's actions.)

Jindori in 58 defends RayFrost, too. Not directly, but did so at least indirectly. Not sure whether it'd be called a Chainsaw Defense or not, but it's certainly condemning for RF/Reckmon.

Let's break down this "case" on me.

Something here. Something in this wording seems off. I don't know what. I can't really explain it.

1. Yeah, because being serious about someone being scum is totally an OMGUS reaction to a random vote. Makes perfect sense. I mean, it's not like I'm some kind of intelligent human being that doesn't go around voting everybody that votes him. The OMGUS tell is overused and being inappropriately used here. An OMGUS vote is when someone attacks the person attacking them based upon the fact the person is attacking them. You not only seem to be forgetting that you had 0 attacking on me at the time of my SERIOUS vote on you but you also seem to be trying to act like you had some sort of a case presented on me before I voted you. Misrepresentation of the facts is scummy.

The words here shouldn't be wrong, but they are. This is less gut, and more "Mastin used to OMGUS everyone so he knows more about the subject than would be healthy to put in a case". Put bluntly, RayFrost limited the spectrum of what OMGUS is a little too much. Not scummy itself; our own definitions will obviously be different and he's not scum for having a different view. It's the fact that he refused to accept how it could even be perceived as OMGUS. Dismissing him having OMGUS'd like this...
Okay, I take it back, there is an element of gut in there, too.
-Gut.
-Refusal to accept anything other than his view of OMGUS.
-Calling C-worl's stuff a Misrepresentation of the facts.
-Calling a misrepresentation as scummy, without stopping to consider there's a difference between "misunderstanding" (which is what A LOT OF NEWBIES TO THE SITE DO), and "misrepping" (what people see as a common scum tell). Instantly concluding the latter is the case without considering the former is not a town way. I know when I'm town, I think of the former one first. I'll first assume it's a misunderstanding, unless it persists. C-worl wasn't really insisting, so, yeah...

Sorry I can't find a better way to word this. It's an important thing.

2. Kindly point out where I "defended" myself from "attacks" as I've yet to see any aside from this (absolutely terrible) one you just performed.

And this I just found ironic, since a response is itself a defense. He notes as much in the post, but I'm going to be checking back on RF's ISO later to see how much of it IS defense early on--I think C-worl might've been on to something. (Earlier defenses tend to come from scum, in my experience, due to their panicky instincts, whereas town tend not to defend themselves until later-on. Just a general trend I've observed.)

3. I suppose you're new to this, so I can understand why you fail to understand. First, my vote was not some 100% conviction that you were scum. It was much like my max vote (though slightly better) in that it was an attempt to get a reaction out of people.

1: Reads as scum coaching. 2: Why coach someone who you think is scum, if you're town? 3: Seems to be justifying his actions.

1. Stating that your vote was a joke and then saying you provided reasoning = a contradiction. It's either a serious vote or it's not. You can't have it both ways.

This gem is HILARIOUSLY hypocritical, given RF's early play. See above for my explanation as to why.

Your case has no merit.

Degrading C-worl's play completely.

I'm doing the same thing, but I'm town.

Does not compute.

This guy is town. No scum would bus their partner when the guy who's doing it hasn't even presented a case yet.

Guess who ended up dead N1?

There's three scenarios in my mind right now your both villy fighting each other,one of you is scum, your both scum from diffrent factions. I don't know which one is right.

Jindori's tone seems to suggest the former one is not the case.

Wut. Your post was a joke, you said so yourself. I felt the same. No OMGUS if your vote's crap and you aren't pushing anything. Calling people town is something that is so freaking common that for you to think it's a scum tactic shows your inexperience in this site and this game in general. The fact you think I'm an idiot for doing it in of itself shows your arrogance and lack of understanding of the theory behind anything I've done so far, meaning you aren't even in a position to tell whether or not I'm scum with any sort of credible accuracy.

This seems like a personal attack against C-worl. More than that, it sounds like RF had a town-read on C-worl, yet was still voting C-worl as scum. Perhaps a tint of coaching in there, too.

You won't flip town. If you do, I'll go "I lynched scum, they just (surprisingly) weren't mafia"

Possible wolf-slip here. Not sure I can describe it, but I hope you can see it.

These are all possibilities, and there's also another one. We are both scum from the same faction attacking each other with hyper-aggression to create distance between us such that when one of us is lynched / flips scum, the other one is believed to not be from the same faction. This tactic's a bit less likely considering the multiple scum factions aspect, but it's still a possibility.

Maybe it's the sleepless mind speaking, but this looks like it could be scum coaching the new-guy.

C-Worl is scum. Evidence: given up on defending himself or even trying to make his BS case seem plausible

This is pretty much the opposite of truth: giving up on defending oneself is a newb-town-tell, and making a BS case is somewhat so as well.

NS is not scum... yet.

Seemed like classic scum fencesitting to me!

Nobody Special - 3 (

Lowell, Kise

, ConSpiracy)
C-Worl - 3 (RayFrost,

Seraphim,

jindori

)
RayFrost - 1 (C-Worl)
Shift - 1 (gorilla)
gorilla - 1 (Nobody Special)
bristep123 - 1 (SnakePlissken)
Chronopie - 1 (MaxKojote)
jindori - 1 (Nero Cain)

Pine - 1 (bristep123)

At this stage in the game, it's kinda disturbing how few scumflips there are in these names. I'd expect 2-3 minimum, and yet, we've got only one. There should be scum on NS. There is scum on C-worl, but given that Jindori is a newbie, it is no stretch of the imagination to think Jindori wagonned with RF, his buddy.

Nobody Special - 4 (

Lowell, Kise

, ConSpiracy,

implosion

)
C-Worl - 4 (RayFrost,

Seraphim,

jindori

, SnakePlissken)
RayFrost - 1 (C-Worl)
implosion - 1 (gorilla)
gorilla - 1 (Nobody Special)
Chronopie - 1 (MaxKojote)

Pine - 1 (bristep123)
Nero Cain - 1 (

T-Bone

)

T-Bone - 1 (tclawren)

At this stage in the game, I'd really be expecting four scum to be voting. T-Bone and Jindori take care of two. Where're the rest? ConSpiracy, RayFrost, (Bristep, I guess,) and Tclaw are the only ones it could be. Meaning two of 'em are scum.

I still think Jindori was wagoning with who he saw as a leadership figure, RayFrost.

Talking about ongoing games is a BIG no-no. Don't do it. Ever. Again. Mods may punish you with anything from force replacement to being modkilled.

Still, you're scum, so a modkill on you would make it easier on us, but.... I don't like that kind of thing.

1: Coaching. 2: This reaction looks incredibly forced, and unbelievably faked.

@RayFrost, if I do get lynched, and I flip town, I hope your lynch is slow and painful so you can enjoy ever waking moment of horror.

This is ironic, given that it's exactly what WILL happen today if you people don't lynch me. Specifically, that the lynch of a wolf will be slow and agonizing for them, as they desperately try to fight it off, as they painfully try to prevent themselves from getting lynched but are powerless to stop their wagon from growing naturally.

i am thinking of jumping on the pine ban wagon but it strikes me as odd how fast the pine ban wagon built up votes so fast seems like some team work was involved maybe from the other scum.

In hindsight, this is probably a huge scumslip from Jindori which nobody saw. ("Other scumteam".) But to me, this implies Jindori likely knew at least one of his buddies wasn't already on the wagon. (And also implies to me he thinks one is.)

He's also (this is a new point) been actively non-contributory and excusing it because "lol ppl r stupid" without any pointing of such things out. THe fact he's refusing to take any sort o stand on the pine lynch or anything is quite simply an indicator of obvscum.

And yet, this seems surprisingly hypocritical of him. Especially with \/ the below.

I've changed my mind about pine. Pine isn't scum yet.

A-hem.

Pine isn't scum yet.

Fencesits, leaving the option of backing out.

The wagon on him has developed way too easily with people not commenting on c-worl at all. The very swift switch in momentum based upon what can quite easily be attributed to inexperience (a read I am getting very actively off of pine) without any real backing from a scum-would-do-this action is really really off to me. The sheer level of ease of a wagon starting up in tandem with the sheer lack of any solidity or rigidity to the case itself just screams easy mislynch.

And yet, this is the EXACT feeling I got from the C-WORL wagon, where much the same could be said. Newb, who got wagoned quickly with very little reasoning. RF's failure to point out the resemblances the wagons have reads as quite condemning.

Town are possibly in superscript.

Max is in the town list, despite RF's early read on Max, and despite the poor reasoning for the wagon. The failure to explain this contradiction--RF should still be suspicious of Max--is rather concerning, no?

Jindori and RF's interaction in 160/161 also reads as buddy-to-buddy talk.

First bit by pine is clearly taking things Way Too Seriously. Not a scumtell. Your first two scumpoint allocations are not only sheeping but also attributing scumminess to tells about stuff that doesn't really have anything to do with alignment (like being new and taking things too seriously - redacting his feeling that I'm scum after realizing it was a joke = just taking things too seriously, not scum trying to do some sort of lynch the guy who's a freaking snowman with a laser beam shooting out of his stomach that could probably eat him alive for an appetizer).

I wish I could pinpoint what it is in here which feels off, but I can't. This defense of Pine just trips my gut's alarm sensors pretty badly.

Pine - 9 (bristep123, ConSpiracy,

Nobody Special, C-Worl,

Nachomamma8

, Chronopie, tclawren,

Nero Cain,

jindori

) L-4
C-Worl - 8 (RayFrost,

Seraphim, SnakePlissken, MaxKojote, Pine, Lucresia,

[Moonstruck]

, Shift) L-5
Nobody Special - 3 (

Lowell, Kise, implosion)
implosion - 1 (gorilla)
Nero Cain - 1 (

T-Bone

)

Not voting - 2 (kr0b, MrZepher)

Jindori's presence on the Pine wagon suggests that there's scum on the C-Worl wagon, still. This can ONLY be RF and Shift. Guess who I think it is?

C-Worl - 9 (RayFrost,

Seraphim, SnakePlissken, MaxKojote, Pine, Lucresia,

[Moonstruck]

, Shift, tclawren) L-4
Pine - 6 (bristep123, ConSpiracy,

C-Worl,

Nachomamma8

, Chronopie,

Nero Cain)
Nobody Special - 3 (Lowell, Kise, implosion)
implosion - 1 (gorilla)
Chronopie - 1 (

T-Bone

)

Not voting - 4 (kr0b, MrZepher,

jindori

, Nobody Special)

Guess what? No flipped scum on the C-worl wagon, other than the SK. Guess what that means? Scum are still there. Which can only be RayFrost, Shift, and Tclaw. Shift/Singer is obviously the Mafia scum on the wagon, of course, but who's the wolf?
One of--but likely not BOTH of--RayFrost and Tclaw.

Also, this trend is continued on the Pine wagon, where we have one scum from each: ConSpiracy and Nacho.

Leaving--of course--one scum from each off of the major wagons. Being, T-Bone and Jindori.

It makes perfect sense.

Just a convenient spot to grab names from to point out who I don't like due to their posting, etc.

And yet, he really didn't do much about it, did he?

1. Replying to the point(s) against you.
2. Pointing out who is actually scum rather than just going "scumz on teh wagonz!"
3. Actually making sense in your cases.
4. Not giving a shit if you die or live.
5. Ceasing with the emotional appeals.

You're still scum, but keep this stuff in mind for future games.

This is a blatant example of scum-coaching-town. I know Coaching well. I can distinguish between scum coaching and town coaching remarkably well. This isn't the latter. It's definitely the former.

The game isn't over from lynching one scum. Seek out others as well.

ALSO a bit hypocritical, if you think about his obsession with C-worl. Sure, he did pursue some other suspects, but he dropped them off later-on without giving replacements. He was focused on a single target, pretty much.

@rayfrost is this how you scum hunt???

This seemed more like a, "is this how experienced players should play the game as scum?" than it did a, "is this how you would scumhunt as town?" One is a buddy asking their more experienced partner how to play. The other is a scum player faking being pro-town asking about a person's play and wondering if it's town-motivated. (If that makes sense.)

Which seems more likely?

Jindori is :goodposting: even though he's in he wrong here (about t-bone).

This seems like an indirect answer to Jindori's question. As in, "you're doing fine, jindori. Just keep on doing what you are right now."

"Your cases are made entirely of the majority of my posts." - I know.

I can't pinpoint it, but something's off in this statement. There's something wrong in there, something which makes it not a town line.

Stretching is common from both town and scum. (Unless you want to say you're scum, since your "case" on me was stretching almost to the point of breaking a rubber band) Please indicate why jindori's specifically is coming from a scum motivation rather than a town motivation.

This, however, I can identify as being blatant buddy defense.

Also when did i defend myself using old pokemon online mafia games an excuse. If i recall the only time i went in depth about it is when a player asked me about my expierence and i told him how diffrent it was to this. You have a habit changing the context of things to make other players look scummy.

Vote c worl

Jindori is further buddying up to RF with this post.

C-Worl - 10 (RayFrost,

Seraphim, SnakePlissken, MaxKojote, Pine, Lucresia,

[Moonstruck]

, Shift, tclawren,

jindori

) L-3
Pine - 5 (bristep123, ConSpiracy,

Nachomamma8

, Chronopie,

Nero Cain)
Nobody Special - 3 (Lowell, Kise, implosion)
implosion - 1 (gorilla)
Chronopie - 1 (

T-Bone

)
jindori - 1 (C-Worl)

Not voting - 3 (kr0b, MrZepher, Nobody Special)

It is entirely reasonable to say there's two scum from a faction on Pine when his wagon is this large. (Plus a Mafiate, too. Since there are two elsewhere, there's GOT to be Mafia on C-worl at that point.) Jindori couldn't be the first wolf-scum to join this wagon. It just aint possible. Therefore, RayFrost is scum.

In other words, RayFrost is scum, and so is ConSpiracy, since he's the wolf off the wagon. On the secondary wagon, no less.

I am quite confident in my judgement now and

in everyone elses

that you are scum trying to streatch to save himself from bieng lynched.

Thor's not the only one with Language Filters in his head.

When I read this, I see, "I was newb-scum before, a bit scared and unconfident of my abilities before, but with the encouragement of RayFrost, I'm now confident enough to pursue you in scum hunting!"

There is a diffrence between a scum streatch and townie streach if you could point out why my streatch would be scummy please do tell.

This is pretty much word for word Jindori following his apparent patron saint, RayFrost. The wording is practically identical.

As mentioned in the ConSpiracy Case, Jindori was paying close attention to both RayFrost AND ConSpiracy. It was mutual, too--ConSpiracy and RayFrost BOTH were answering questions with Jindori at that stage in the game. You can see this in 225-231, as clear as day.

Are you saying that I still haven't stated the original reason? If you are, I recommend reading my posts again. Thoroughly. Perhaps multiple times.

I'm not positive what it is, but something's tripping my gut, here. Maybe the condescension, or maybe it's the laziness. I dunno. But there's something in there, which just doesn't seem right.

I actually think Ray could be scum pushing on a townie for a mislynch. The reason is basically because I don't think that the case on C-worl is actually that strong, or nearly as strong as Rayfrost is making it out to be.

And this has thusfar turned out to at least be half-true. (C-worl was town.) I personally think it was completely true. (RF was not. )

No. Nooooo. No. Why would you say this. This is NOT a townie's job even if vanilla, you do NOT know what C-worl's role is if C-worl is town, please explain why not giving a shit if you live or die is a towntell in any way shape or form.
FoS Rayfrost

Also a valid point by Implosion.

I actually have very few issues with RF's response in 287. Except for one thing.

The fact you suspect me over something like this is kinda hilarious, by the by.

^Of all the things, this is the only one which tripped my gut. Oh, and

You're wrong, I'm right, we're both town, move along.

I don't know why my gut's tripping, here, but I think it's the same exact thing in the above quote, whatever it may be.

List o' townies:

NS
Chronopie
Implosion
t-bone
tclawren
gorilla
jindori

This list looks like a scum-RF, with one buddy in the group. In this case, Jindori.

List o' teh scumz:

C-worl
bristep
krob

Conveniently only three scumnames, which seems to be a scumslip revealing he's hunting the other team.






It's obviously not finished, because you've been distracting me.

[mastin2]

I also have a Slaxx case started, for the curious, but it shouldn't be necessary--Slaxx is town.

[mastin2]

Singer, look at them kittens and ask yourself "do these look like they wanna fool me?"

*grumblegrumblegrumble*

I still don't think you're right, but...

unvote
vote: Mastin2

Thing is, Singer, this exact same thing applies only MORE so in reverse.

Look at Reckamonic and ConSpiracy.

Do they look like they're town?

Tell me.

[mastin2]

I wasnt being serious. Idk who mafia is, but Werewolves are Zepher and Mastin. Kind of hoping the problem will resolve itself overnight.

Thing is, my death will tell you I was being truthful.

That Zepher was successfully protected.

Therefore, Zepher dies overnight. You go into lylo, with three potential lynches. Slaxx (who I think is town, but could be scum--hence the case started on him), Reckamonic, and ConSpiracy. You can only lynch two of them in two days.

This was what I meant from dropping from guaranteed victory (100%) to not-so-much, 66%.

[mastin2]

Why would you make a scum case on town.

You are one silly goober.

Covering all the angles. In this case, if I were wrong about you being town.

I don't think I am wrong, of course. You haven't hammered, for instance. But I had to be sure.

[mastin2]

Also, if you couldn't tell by the length of the cases, they're only partially done, but are still DANG-detailed for covering so little of the game. Give me the time to finish, and I can guarantee you it'll be far more convincing, considering there's a lot of juicy stuff in the later days.

Simply put, there's no way Reckamonic and ConSpiracy are town. Both of 'em are wolves. Power and Slaxx are tunneling town, Zepher's confirmed town.

[mastin2]

So, I want one of two things.

Guarantee me. EFFING GUARANTEE ME,

RIGHT HERE AND

RIGHT NOW

, THAT

REGARDLESS OF THE CIRCUMSTANCES TOMORROW,

YOU WILL LYNCH CONSPIRACY AND RECKAMONIC

.

If you do that, then I don't need to finish. Otherwise, don't hammer, let me finish the cases, and prove conclusively why they're the scum and I'm not.

[mastin2]

Reason being, of course, that I don't trust you to make the right call.

Power's town. He's an idiot, but he's town. I do NOT want him mislynched for a loss, when it's painfully obvious he's not a wolf.

Slaxx's town. Also being stupid and missing the blatant hints in front of him, but it's for that very reason he's not a wolf.

Zepher's town, due to my protection. Know when I flip Doctor that I did not lie about my Zepher protection, and that he should NOT, under ANY circumstances, be lynched.

Chronopie's prob-town. Can't be Mafia due to the mutual bussing (same reason I'm not mafia), and is doubtfully a wolf.


And I quite frankly have no faith in the town to follow the will of me with a half-finished, not-completed case when there's a lot of juicy scummy stuff later on which I've noticed yet nobody else has which'll be Lost Forever if I'm lynched before I get to it.

[mastin2]

Who here deals well with picking up panicking in people's posts?
*Raises hand*

Well, I see it in ConSpiracy and Reckamonic. Not in Slaxx or Powerrox.

Who here deals well with picking up interactions between other players?
*Raises Hands*

I showed you early-game interactions which're condemning. I can show you later-game ones as well.

Who here noticed a particularly scummy attitude change from Days Five to Six, shared by only two or three players?

*Raises Hand*

Those three being Reckamonic, ConSpiracy, and initially Chronopie (he got better, though).

The list goes on and on.

[mastin2]

So, Slaxx. Asking you not to hammer.

Even if YOU sheeped my reads.

Could you get the rest of the town to do so as well, without me having finished my cases?

[mastin2]

As much faith as I have in you, Slaxx, being town, I don't have faith in you being able to persuade everyone.
Plus, it's possible the wolves'll kill you, rather than Zepher, and try to get him mislynched despite him being confirmed town by me.

And even if you do get a wolf lynched tomorrow.
There's also tomorrow night, where you'd have to live through another nightkill, which you're not likely to pull of. Meaning the town could mislynch then if they didn't sheep my reads.

In other words, I'm asking for time to finish, because even if you believe my reads are correct, I need to make sure EVERYONE believes they're correct, not just one or two players who're likely to end up dead before they can carry these reads out.

[mastin2]

Oh, and speaking of which.

Unvote, Vote: Reckamonic

. As you can tell by the length difference, there's far more suggesting RayFrost/Reckamonic is scum than there is suggesting ConSpiracy is scum.

They both are, but Reckamonic's more scum than ConSpiracy.

[mastin2]

Also, another reason to withhold from hammering: organization.

Remember how neat my defense of myself was?

These cases...not so much.

They're pretty messy, right now. If I was given the time to format them, they'd be more readable, hence, more usable, hence, more likely to get the real scum lynched and result in a town win rather than loss like we're headed towards.

[mastin2]

In other words, while my lynch is apparently inevitable, I still have my uses today. My usefulness has not expired, as I still have a purpose, still have the ability to show you what to do in the future days, an ability wasted by a premature hammer.

Ending the day cuts off my one chance to show why I'm right, to show just who I am as a Mafia player.

[mastin2]

You dont know me bro. If you flip town I go into beast mode tomorrow. Both in frustration at you for silly gambit and super scumhuting (hint: I don't like to be wrong, if I am wrong, I will not be wrong tomorrow).

Although my death is a possibility I guess.

And this is why you should wait. At least until we get more than you (and preferably more than Zepher) to back it up.

Because I KNOW my town-reads are town. Zepher, you, Power.

I don't want any mislynches.

The wolves do not deserve a win, they should not have earned a win, and I would be quite upset and never be able to accept a wolf win.

This game should be a town-win. Many players here earned their victory. Many deserve a victory. (Like Pine, C-worl, and--if Slaxx follows through--him as well.)

I do not want to see us lose.

[mastin2]

We're not lynching Reck today.

I

would obviously prefer it not be me...

So, other than myself, who WOULD we be lynching, eh, singer?

You?

Chrono?

ConSpiracy? (I got that impression.)

Power? (No. HECK NO.)

Slaxx? (No times a thousand.)

Zepher? (No times a million. )

Reckamonic? Well, apparently not by your standards.

[mastin2]

Vote: ConSpiracy

.

[mastin2]

Zepher's waiting for ConSpiracy to be back from V/LA, if memory serves. (Though even he has to admit if he waits too long, he might never get the chance. )
Reckamonic I highly doubt will vote ConSpiracy, since I believe they're scumbuddies.

And even if both of them did, we'd still need one more for a lynch.

[mastin2]

if he's not we know the mafia/wolves are conspiracy, chrono and powerrox.
Fortunately for us, the lone mafia has to kill a wolf tonight or he's pretty much done for, assuming a mislynch.
unless he thinks he can win at 2vs2vs1, which would require dodging a lynch, a bullet and an angry townie in LyLo.

however, Mastin wont flip town, so that's useless speculating.

^One of the main reasons I think Reckamonic is scum. There's multiple small scumslips in here.

However, ignoring those for now (later--in my case, which I'll continue to build once I know I'm not going to be wasting my time ), I quote this to ask,

Singer:

is this why you think Reckamonic will get behind a ConSpiracy lynch?

(Sorry. I'm a bit incoherent right now. For obvious reasons. Can't exactly blame me, can ya? )

[mastin2]

Singer, I won't vote with 95% confirmed scum, even if he's good at smokescreens and stalls.

Hey, I could unvote and wait for Zepher and (should singer be convincing) Power/Slaxx to vote there then hammer at the last second! That way, you wouldn't know I was voting with you!*

*

Please tell me I don't need to say to you that this is a joke. It, uh, kinda is obvious to me.

[mastin2]

The sheer fact there is a competing bandwagon on someone who is V/La that formed practically overnight against a guy who CCED THE FUCKING COP IN A TWO SCUM SETUP WITH FLIPPED SEER probably means the people on the v/la wagon HAVE THE WRONG FUCKING GUY

GOOD DAY TO YOU SIRS

Dude.

That wagon has grown over the course of the in-game day.
My vote--immediate.
Zepher's--gradual.
Singer's--the push over the edge, but not immediate.
Chronopie--the only one which was immediate.

In fact, you're just recycling one of the points

I USED IN

MY

DEFENSE

. Hypocritical, eh?

[mastin2]

Sorry.

Spoiler: Absence

I've been having Writer's Block.

"...Wut."

No, seriously! I come here, try to say something, but the words don't reach the keyboard. That's classic Writer's Block. It might not be the only word to describe it, but being a writer, it's the first I personally thought of.

Now, normally, when dealing with Writer's Block, I got advice from a Published Writer that the best way to overcome it is to just keep on typing about why you can't, but I figured you wouldn't appreciate the rambling.

However, that said, I overcame my Writer's Block by thinking of the game all night (yes, I dream Mafia Games. And, yes, mafia games go beyond a healthy obsession for me. ) and stumbled upon the answer when I took a shower for the first time in a week this morning. (You can blame this game for the lack of hygeine. )

Put simply: I was lynched, already.

At least, theoretically.

Chronopie, Reckamonic, ConSpiracy, Powerrox, and honorary member Slaxx. That was a lynch.

Now, Slaxx's current theory is that I'm a wolf with Zepher, and that Reckamonic's the last mafia--correct, Slaxx?

Here's the thing: that wagon STILL requires FOUR of the FIVE pro-town players to have been on it, Slaxx, with the fifth being the Mafia. Meaning, on the counter-wagon of ConSpiracy would have to be BOTH wolves, PLUS a "misguided" pro-town player.

You see what the issue there is?

Four out of five pro-town players. Everyone there except Reckamonic, who's scum from another less harmful faction.

That just doesn't happen.

Three out of five, sure. (Being, Slaxx, Power, and Chronopie, of course.) But not four out of five. Especially not so soon after day dawned.


Simply put, Slaxx, your proposed scumteam defies all logic. You need to reevaluate your reads, and realize you're right on one thing: Reckamonic is scum.
But you're wrong about which faction--Reckamonic is NOT Mafia Scum. Well, other than his title under his name, of course.

(Hopefully now that I've broken the ice with the above revelation, I'll be able to get my head more into the game. Okay, so it's already into the game, so more accurately, get what's in my head on the game into the keyboard. )

[mastin2]

(Also, I've been having Writer's Block elsewhere, but here is where it's been worst.)

[mastin2]

By "rest of the mob", I take it you mean singer?

Alright.

Singer:

Given a choice between lynching me, nobody, or Reckamonic, who would you choose?

[mastin2]

Pretty sure that was the hammer.

No, I am not a wolf. That'd be Reckamonic and ConSpiracy, thankyouverymuch.

I AM a doctor, and I DID protect Zepher last night, so he IS confirmed town.

[mastin2]

So, yeah. No matter HOW scummy you think Zepher is. (Or Slaxx, for that matter. And likely Powerrox as well.) He's not scum. Trust me on this. I'll flip Doctor. And the kill tonight will be Zepher or Slaxx.

[mastin2]

Which means the survivor between them needs to keep in mind that Reckamonic and ConSpiracy are BOTH scum. Trust me on this; I'm quite positive of it.

[mastin2]

To some extent, it's through process of elimination, too. Singer wasn't on my wagon at any point, so she's town. The only scum possible besides Reckamonic and ConSpiracy are Chronopie and Powerrox. (My wagon at the days opening HAD to have had two scum in it!) And if I have the time before Demon comes in, I'll explain why it's not them.

[mastin2]

First off, the easy one. Powerrox's attitude has mirrored Slaxx's perfectly. I know for a fact that Slaxx is a town-neighbor, not a wolf-neighbor. Trust me; I have my reasons and you'll understand soon enough. Since Slaxx was town, that reaffirmed my position on Power being town as well.

Reckamonic's attitude wasn't the same as Powerrox's, though. Powerrox's tunneling on me was newb-tunneling. Reckamonic's was panicked-scum-tunneling. If I had the time, I could explain why that subtle difference makes Power town and Reckamonic scum, but I do not.

[mastin2]

The harder one to explain is Chronopie. But it comes down to the exact same reasons I'm not a wolf, that he's not a wolf, either. His reads have been pretty much identical to my own. I find it hard to believe a wolf would be that risky. There's more to it, as well. His unvote and willingness to go after ConSpiracy help the Chronopie-Town theory greatly.

It's all a concept I could explain in far more detail had the time been given to me, which it obviously has not.

[mastin2]

Essentially, yeah, I am not the lynch you needed right now. At all. And right now, I'm trying to ensure the town doesn't lose, because right now, you're well on that path.

[mastin2]

And it's like I said. ConSpiracy and Reckamonic are both panicking scum. They thought I'd be an easy mislynch. When I came in and claimed doctor, they realized I was telling the truth, and realized I would not be the easy mislynch they were hoping for. They didn't quite panic, yet, though. That started when they realized I stood a chance (which Zepher just ended ) of actually convincing the town to lynch THEM rather than me.

This panic was increased when they likely began to think I wasn't a mislynch, but rather, think I was mafia. And that if I didn't end up dead, they likely believed that I'd be shooting them.

You can tell it from their posts at the start of the day and soon after my claim.

[mastin2]

Effectively, Reckamonic and ConSpiracy was obviously the scumteam from the start of the day. They've been defending each other, too, if that helps. It aint Powerrox, and I'm 100% POSITIVE that Slaxx is town. (Wrong, but Town.) I'm also still 95% sure Zepher's town, since unless they DID No-Kill, that means my Doctor Protect WAS successful, which therefore clears him. (Yes, despite the hammer, despite anything he's done, his attitude just doesn't match up with being scum.) And singer's pretty obviously not a wolf, too. You can tell that by looking at her interactions with others.

[mastin2]

I wish I had more time to explain this all, that I had the ability to describe all of my reads in more detail, that I could tell you in far more coherent, less rushed terms why Reckamonic and ConSpiracy are the scumteam.

[mastin2]

Users browsing this forum: mastin2, MrZepher
^I realize I'm doing a posting storm, but Zepher, surely you have the time somewhere to comment? You're confirmed town, 95%. You need to be here.

[mastin2]

It won't be defined well enough if you deviate from the path.

I do NOT want a Wolf Win this game. They haven't earned it. They've had it given to them on a silver platter by an easily-manipulated town. The town deserves better than to lose to them. The town had a lot of awesome players who died that should win. Heck, even the Mafia have dead members who'd deserve a victory moreso than the Wolves.

[mastin2]

Essentially. The wolves have been given a free pass this entire game for things they'd never have gotten away with if not for the Mafia and the whole Cop business. And for the record?

Yes, I really did think there was no cop in the game, and that Gorilla was a fakeclaiming wolf.

[mastin2]

So, yeah. I never lied today. Not about a single fact. Honesty is the Best Policy for situations like this. I told you all the truth, undilluted. Gave you the whole story, but apparently, you weren't listening. :/

Went in one ear, and right out the other.

Despite the fact that I was giving you my honest view on the game, that I was always truthful, since I was keeping my credibility by not telling a lie, since I was sticking to my personality which was to not be dishonest.

I told the truth: I Am NOT A Wolf.

ConSpiracy and Reckamonic need to die; don't accept ANYTHING other than that.

[mastin2]

(And, yeah. Since I've been lynched, you can take my word for this all and know for a fact that I'd have no reason to lie right now.)

Remember.

Slaxx is 100% town, Zepher is 95% town.

Reckamonic and ConSpiracy are the wolves.

Do

not

mislynch Powerrox!

Those three are the most vital, but also important is that Chronopie and Singer are town.

[mastin2]

I wish I had more to say.

But in this situation, I can't think of any more words to say on it. I've spoken my mind. Don't think I've really missed anything.

[mastin2]

(Though, of course, while I might not have missed anything, I certainly would love to have had the time to talk in more detail about it. :/)

[mastin2]

Hard to explain. I have notes for it, but not sure I can find 'em quick enough. If memory serves, it's 'cause having a TRIPLE role (Wolf-*Role*-Neighbor is a bit much for a PM, eh? ) is kinda impossible. I don't think I can track the exact reasons down in time, but I believe that was the core of it.

[mastin2]

And a reminder:

Despite the bad hammer, despite whatever scummy things he might've done,

Zepher's still 95% town. Actually, I'll upgrade it to 97.5% town.
Slaxx is still 100% town, though.

[mastin2]

The remaining two wolves are both PRs. Watcher and Roleblocker. Having Slaxx be a Werewolf Watcher/Roleblocker-Neighbor is not balanced. More or less.

Hence, 100% confirmed town.

[mastin2]

Effectively, Slaxx as scum would have to be
Role 1: Werewolf.
Role 2: Watcher/Roleblocker.
Role 3: Neighbor.

Neighbor-*Role* is somewhat common.
Werewolf-*Role* is of course going to be common.
Werewolf-Neighbor woulda been possible.

But since I know both wolves are PRs (and even know which ones they are!), to have all three in one is impossible. Wolf-*Role*-Neighbor makes no sense.

Hence, confirmed town.

[mastin2]

Also, since it's a new page.

The Wolves Are Reckamonic And ConSpiracy.
Zepher is 97.5% town, Slaxx is 100% town.
Do

not

mislynch Powerrox;

he is just misguided town.

Chronopie and Singer

(for various reasons)

are also both not wolves

.

Reckamonic/ConSpiracy both were scummy and obvious today by looking at them, but even if they weren't, Process of Elimination points to them.

[mastin2]

And by that, I mean, even if I had null reads on the rest of the town, I'd still have scumreads on Reckamonic/ConSpiracy. The fact that I have town-reads for various different reasons on everyone else is only the icing on the cake.

[mastin2]

(Also, 326 posts in here. I haven't confirmed this, but I think that's more than anyone else in the thread. Yay, for lots and lots of posting!)

[mastin2]

I know it's more than C-worl (230-some, I believe) and the mod (202), so, yeah. I think I've posted in here more than anyone else. (To give you an idea of just how much this is, I replaced in after everyone else here except for Slaxx, and now have 1 and 5/8ths of a page in ISO, since ISO only lets you see 200 in a single page.)

[mastin2]

All that said and done, I'm pretty content right now, satisfied that I did everything I could to tell you guys the obvious truth, that Reckamonic and ConSpiracy were scum. I did all I could to convince you that I (truthfully! YES, REALLY!) didn't think there was a Cop this game and that Gorilla was scum. I did all I could to prove I am The Doctor.

There really wasn't much more I could do, was there? :/

[mastin2]

Nope. I'm a Doctor. Exactly as I said I was.

[mastin2]

And, yes, I did protect Zepher. I have no reason to lie to you after I'm lynched, so believe me when I say that I really did protect him.

[mastin2]

Really,

was

there any way? Was there any way I could've convinced you, Slaxx, that I wasn't a wolf?

I gave everything I thought of. Everything, even things I was hoping to never employ, and it wasn't enough. Heck, even the truth didn't seem to work. (And I stand by that--had I told a lie--it would've gotten me lynched far quicker, as people would've realized quite quickly I was BS'ing. By telling the truth, though, I was hoping that nobody'd be able to call me out on BS'ing, since I wasn't.)

[mastin2]

(But, dang it. I really DIDN'T think there was a Cop! It's right there, in my notes, how I say as much! How I was convinced Gorilla was fakeclaiming. How I was so sure I was right, that I was willing to risk the game on it in a gambit.)

[mastin2]

Yeah, well I obviously know that myself, but I personally didn't figure it out until a little after Day Six started. :/

[mastin2]

I'm just reflecting.

Sentimental fool, here. I've said what I need to, and it's still there. So if you're paying attention and read it, making sure not to ignore it and follow it even after I die, well...I wouldn't be as dissatisfied.

[mastin2]

Would you rather replace one of the names in there on the suspect list?

'Cause that's the ONLY way I'm wrong.

I really don't think I am.

[mastin2]

Put bluntly: I thought I was on to something with Pine.
I thought I was on to something with Gorilla, too.

But when they both flipped town, I re-analyzed things, and Reckamonic-ConSpiracy just fell perfectly into place.

Not a single name. Like it was with Pine. "Pine and *insertnamehere* are the wolves."
Not like Gorilla. "Gorilla's scum, but I'm not sure about his buddy. Maybe *insertnamehere*?"

No, with them, it fell into place as "They're both scum, each other's buddies. It falls into place perfectly, and it matches with their interactions with Jindori perfectly."

[mastin2]

Users browsing this forum: mastin2, Reckamonic
^I'd almost be willing to bet they're going to post something which on the surface looks fine but underneath the surface contains some gloat, some taunt of how they're close to winning.

[mastin2]

is that gloaty, taunty and on the verge of winningesque to you? <_<

Yes. Second sentence, a bit in the first.

And yeah, I saw you as dramonic first, looking at your user control pannel. (Who Is Online.) So figured it was you.

[mastin2]

If you flip town it's Chrono, Powerrox and Conspiracy.
I dont know how that makes sense.
But it is.

^Just admitted to being a wolf, since "But it is" means that he knows I'm not flipping wolf.

[mastin2]

"I don't know how that makes sense, but it is."

Read that carefully. And you'll see what I mean.

Yer a

Wizard

Wolf, Hairy.

[mastin2]

Now it's my turn: What.

[mastin2]

As in, "I have no freakin' clue what you just said, Dram".

[mastin2]

Users browsing this forum: C-Worl, mastin2, Pine, Reckamonic
^Ah, quite the crowd. Cheering for my death. Waiting for the inevitable flip. Screaming to get it over with...

...How I'll be joining them soon enough.

(Also, new page again.

Reckamonic and ConSpiracy are wolves, Slaxx is 100% town, Zepher is 97.5% town, Powerrox is a mislynch; don't lynch him,

etcetera.)

[mastin2]

If you flip town it's Chrono, Powerrox and Conspiracy.
I dont know how that makes sense.
But it is.

What ellipses, Dram? They don't exist in the post in question.

[mastin2]

But you put a full stop there. Not an elipse.
A single dot, period, whatever you call the "." key.

Not three.

[mastin2]

DH was quite the mod. Flavor was just epic in many cases (*cough* mastin *cough*). Seriously, that lynch flavor had me laughing for like half an hour. It was just so perfect.

Indeed. :P I was laughing myself. ;) And DH is indeed quite epic. :D

I seriously thought con was scum ):

So did I. :P Which is one of the reasons I was doomed from the start.
-Wrong about Pine.
-Wrong about Gorilla. (SERIOUSLY wrong about Gorilla. :P)
-Wrong about ConSpiracy.

Had I managed to get that lynch (So close! I was leading! It was four on ConSpiracy versus three on me at one point! :P), I still woulda lost the game the next day. Via, something or another like, "three strikes, yer out, Mastin." :P

Mastin's walls were epic. He had me almost convinced, and I knew from the mod that he was scum.

Heh. This is pretty much word-for-word a quote I've seen before. :P (About me, off-site.) Definitely going into my quotes. ;)

We've all been there and played in games where we were dead wrong about just about everything.

Interestingly enough, this game is probably the first game I've had since my return which is like that--dead wrong about almost everything. Which is surprising:
I really thought that the first game I'd be Dead Wrong in would be, y'know, as Town. :P

I had mastin, that counts for something.

Not really. :P
"You guys lynched scum!
...Too bad for you he's not the scum you're looking for."
^Essentially what I knew was coming. I was SCREAMING at my monitor, "I'M NOT THE SCUM YOU'RE LOOKING FOR!" 'cause I knew people wanted a Wolf Lynch. :P

I maintain that my scum play is really obvious, as this game demonstrates--I might be able to delay my lynch (for weeks :P), but I have no capability to STOP it. Short of claiming Mafia (believe me--I had it written up in a humorous way; I just didn't want to resort to it and was only going to post it if it looked like there was someone foreshadowing a switch), I did EVERYTHING I could to convince you that I wasn't a wolf. (Note, however, my Suspiciously Specific Denial--I always pointed out how I Was Not A Wolf. Mafia, on the other hand... :P)

[mastin2]

Too bad you didn't ask until AFTER I was lynched. Had you asked me before the lynch, "Mastin, are you Mafia?" I very well might have said "yes. Lynch elsewhere, please? " (Paraphrased. It'd be longer. Not that it'd have really done much, most likely, given the town's attitude towards the SK. )

[mastin2]

Yeah. Power was the one I had always considered town. :/