I don't see anything about post restrictions here. Am I missing something? Is this some sort of inside joke?Mod 1 wrote:
Mafia 125: Khan's Game of Mafia (Game Over)
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RedCoyote Jack of All Trades
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RedCoyote Jack of All Trades
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Spyrex picked up on my sentiments exactly. I'm genuinely confused about it. I'll tell you one thing though, I'll bet dollars to doughnuts that I wasn't the only one who was confused about it. I'll just bet you some of our players were pretending like they knew what was going down, when in reality they had no clue. username is aiming toward Antihero, and Spyrex thinks Gorrad is fluffing his way through it. Both are reasonable votes, I think, but if I were to pick one I'd lean more toward Antihero. To clarify, I think Antihero was pretending like he knew what was going on in order to make himself look townie. I'm willing to elaborate on this if anyone would like. I don't think the right move was to pretend you knew what nocase/inHim was talking about, but to respond with something between skepticism and curiosity.Chevre 72 wrote:I feel as though the whole post-restriction thing was a hapless and pointless event. Sure it made a semi-interesting start to this game, but it appears to be finished on page three where the participants are like "well we really don't have post restrictions hur hur."
Vote: Antihero
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If you didn't read, why are you voting?Kat 107 wrote:In class no time to read through.
Vote: Antihero
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You're just going to have to accept the fact that I'll very rarely be posting at the same time as anyone. But, like, now, or a few hours earlier, would be when you could expect most of my posts. Yes is the answer to your second question.Jerbs 109 wrote:What is your time zone? So people don't blame you for lurking when you've actually been sleeping.
Do you believe that people will do stupid things to try and be smart?
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WhoRunner 115 wrote:I don't see the cases on Gorrad and Chevre here, can anyone help?doyou see the cases on?
Interesting. In what other ways are you like Dutch? Perhaps you two have the same alignment?Runner 137 wrote:And curiouswhatever, is that what you do to players like Dutch? We're humans; we all make mistakes. You could have just told him to answer your question(s?) instead of voting him, like Jerbs.
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Chevre 154 wrote:Can you go further into detail? I cannot really defend against three to four word case points.
Why?
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Why is it that I always have such extreme opinions of you, Kat? Either you seem really townie or really scummy. Right now you seem really scummy.Kat 159 wrote:Works for me.
Unvote, Vote: Chevre
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Why is it a wasted vote? I'd go so far as to say any player could still be lynched at this point.Antihero 183 wrote:^Wasted votes make me cry on the inside.
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Thanks for pointing this out. I agree completely. This isn't something I'm prepared to vote Chevre on, but I don't think her post is as jaw dropping as it's being made out to be either. There is a lot of fluff in it, even though there is a lot of content as well.Cyberbob 191 wrote:- The funny thing about Chevre's ~huge textwall of doom~ is that for the most part it's a literal description of the events she's analysing. The actual analysis - the stuff that other people actually look for - only takes up maybe 20% of the total wordcount. I don't think it's scummy, it seems genuine to me - it's just a little amusing.
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I posted earlier. You can use the "Display all posts by user" function in the future if you want to actually want to check on something like that before stating it as though it were fact.Runner 193 wrote:We haven't heard anything from RedCoyote, werewolf55, or Kmd(numbers). Don't know what that means, just throwing that out there.
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I'm going to keep my vote where it is now, but I see a couple of viable candidates that I could easily move to.-
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RedCoyote Jack of All Trades
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Wait, you just said you didn't see the case on Gorrad, so I wanted to know what case you did see. By see I hope we're both on the same page as synonymous for "accept" or "see as valid". You listed Gorrad again, so where exactly is Gorrad in your view?Runner 198 wrote:I see the case on farside, Gorrad, and Antihero, Seraphim. See a few other votes around, don't think they're cases though - mainly Jerbs and Dutch one.
Additionally, you're not voting despite the fact you "see" several cases being made against people. Tell me we're misunderstanding each other because otherwise I really am not liking the way you're coming across so far.
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I don't like the way you approached it. DGB attacked you in her own cutesy way, but I think we both got the jist of it. So the idea that you can't respond to her case unless it's laid out in a certain way causes me to make that emoticon face in reality.Chevre 214 wrote:RedCoyote, if DrippingGoofball voted for you and gave you those "tells" for reasons, how would you defend against them?
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I don't like the way you started the game, but when I really go back and look at your posts, I can't honestly rank you scummier than Kat right now.Antihero 217 wrote:RC, what are you babbling about?
Unvote;Vote: Katsuki
Kat, you're going to have to give us something better than what you have. I especially do not like your Chevre vote.
Why are you in such hardcore defend Jerbs mode? He can speak for himself too, you know.Antihero 222 wrote:Also, there are plenty of lazy people on this site. Jerbs isn't one of them. Try again.
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Huh? Clarify this for me.werewolf 243 wrote:I'm not sure what i'm trying to prove.
I just feel like pointing some things out.
Why is everyone so confusing this game? Is it just me? I'm not even prepared to touch the farside/Korlash battle. The best I gather, it's an argument over whether one person has seen awkward townie play before or something? Ugh, I feel like this is such a lame start to what could otherwise be a really enjoyable game (although I'll admit I have really been enjoying DGB's posts). That's not to say it won't get better of course.-
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RedCoyote Jack of All Trades
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This is all after the fact though. You already voted Chevre before this wall. You don't need to clarify this point, you need to clarify why you jumped on her to begin with. Because DGB told you to?Kat 266 wrote:Re: Chevre wall, I see no pro-town reasoning for typing such a giant wall of text at this point of the game, considering the amount of people who would actually read it (not very many). He was asked for reads on three people, and instead of responding with clear answers, he gives us this giant monstrosity. It's essentially equivalent to not having answered the question IMO.
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Let me preface this by saying that I think I can be persuaded onto the Chevre wagon without much arm twisting. I think Chevre is a little too high strung right now, and it's striking me as panicky. Especially that line about how she can't defend herself unless you formally confront her with a case.DGB 274 wrote:You are all singly voting for players that might be viable lynch candidates. If you want that player lynched, convince us.
As far as my vote goes, look at Kat's post 159 and tell me if you are comfortable with that person on your wagon. I don't know Kat to be convinced that easily, and it just seems really lazy. I would cut her more slack if she said something like, "I like where DGB's going, and I want to build on it, but I'm a little busy right now. I'm still going to vote though."
As it stands, Chevre might work for her, but her vote does not work for me.
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Can you stop with the WIFOM? It's not going to convince anyone saying that a scum would or wouldn't do X.Dutch 277 wrote:Just look at all his posts and everything you find is scummie or atleast something a town idiot would do.
This is a big allegation that I think is unwarranted. You should expand on this, or I'm just going to assume you are slinging mud here.Dutch 300 wrote:I agree with Chevre, your choice seems a bit pointless.. you're probably just voting Chevre because that is a large wagon...
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Are you kidding? He hasn't even posted yet. Why would we lynch someone who has given us nothing to work with?DGB 311 wrote:This looks like a fantabulous lynch candidate to me.
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I like Cyberbob and Seraphim's last two posts. I skimmed over Spyrex's ninja'd post above me. It looks aimless at first glance, which is really uncharacteristic of him. The quotes have no authors attributed. Ugh. Cyberbob, do you not get where I'm coming from or do you think I'm just playing the "confusion/frustration" card as a tactic?-
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RedCoyote Jack of All Trades
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Ah, okay, sorry. I see where you're coming from now, Spy. That'll do nicely. I retract my kneejerk statement.
On a sidenote, I love how everyone in this game decided to change their avatars at the same time.-
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RedCoyote Jack of All Trades
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What? You can't be serious. Lynch someone before they can post?
Someone tell me you two are just pulling my leg, because this is one of the very few absolutes I'd have about the game of Mafia. You don't lynch someone before letting them talk. I mean, what the hell are we supposed to do with the results, regardless of what he flips?-
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RedCoyote Jack of All Trades
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farside 338 wrote:Now explain what about Sera's post you liked.
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Why are you making excuses on behalf of DGB? She's a big girl, and she can talk to me if she wants to.Antihero 342 wrote:I don't think DGB meant to lynch KMD right then and there. I believe she called him a "good lynch candidate."
You can't have a read on someone who hasn't posted. And don't start with some meta nonsense, because, although occasionally acceptable, this would definitely not be a time.
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And to what do you base this on, Dutch?Dutch 343 wrote:So I'll join a wagon on KMD if there is more interest
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You didn't propose an RVS wagon. You said he was a lynch candidate. These are two different things, hon.DGB 348 wrote:A townie wouldn't fear joining such a wagon for the lulz.
My contention is that you cannot have a scumread on a player who hasn't posted.
WhatDGB 349 wrote:You're a serious contender for the Not-Reading-The-Game LIFETIME ACHIEVEMENT Award.isthis all about, Xalxe? I could see you skimming and making an honest mistake, but then you supposedly went back over it and misread the posts a second time?
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That clearly wasn't the intent. In retrospect it may seem like that because DGB is backing off it, but there's no way I'm going to buy someone is scum because they lurked the first four days of a game. No chance.Jerbs 357 wrote:Really tho, what harm can bandwagoning a lurker do? This game has been going on for 4 days, and he's already confirmed to play. Why are you so keen on not letting votes onto kmd?
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What about Kat, for goodness sakes...farside 362 wrote:What about Sera?
I feel like I'm the only person here weighing every person on their merits.
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Agreed.Chevre 382 wrote:"OH MY GOD DRIPPINGGOOFBALL WHY DID YOU DO THAT THAT WAS SO RASH I DIDNT MENTION ANYTHING AT FIRST BUT THEN I REMEMBERED THAT THIS GAME HAS BEEN SO SRS BSNS SO FAR AND I SHOULDNT HAVE BEEN EXPECTING THAT DAYKILL ATTEMPT TO BE A JOKE WHY DID YOU DO IT DRIPPINGGOOFBALL WHY WHY WHY"
Looking at this with a bias of having missed the event, I don't see why it would be implausible for someone to assume DGB was acting like, I don't know, a goofball. Chevre is right. I dislike both DGB and Cyber's attempts to frame this bigger than it is.
Reactionfishing doesn't work when it's just part of your repertoire. She even clues you in by reminding you everytime you read her name!-
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RedCoyote Jack of All Trades
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RedCoyote Jack of All Trades
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Oh, you guys like lists, huh? Well let me show you a this little dandy.
The Best Lynches
Kat
Runner
Antihero
The Okay Lynches
Gorrad
Dutch
Chevre
Cyberbob
???
Gorrad
inHim
SpyreX
Kmd
DGB
werewolf
ckd
The Good Guys
Jerbs
farside
iamausername
nocase
Xalxe
Korlash-
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RedCoyote Jack of All Trades
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EBWOP:
The Best Lynches
Kat
Runner
Antihero
The Okay Lynches
Gorrad
Dutch
Chevre
Cyberbob
???
Seraphim
inHim
SpyreX
Kmd
DGB
werewolf
ckd
The Good Guys
Jerbs
farside
iamausername
nocase
Xalxe
Korlash[/quote]-
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RedCoyote Jack of All Trades
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RedCoyote Jack of All Trades
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RedCoyote Jack of All Trades
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RedCoyote Jack of All Trades
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Unvotebecause my vote isn't going anywhere and Kat is being replaced.
I'd really prefer a Runner lynch to anything on the table right now, but I know I don't have the energy or the capital to commit to a battle against him. I don't see Spyrex as voting Gorrad illegitimately here. He's fluffing his way through the first part of the game. His vote on Cyberbob is kind of lame. Kind of really lame. I don't think he bothers to really sell it, and I don't think he asks Cyberbob any questions or anything like that. This nocase vote is just as lame feeling. Then there's this point about how nocase is following the crowd, and Spyrex rightfully jumps on him for that. Why is he trying to make some boogeyman out of nothing? There's no huge anti-Gorrad sentiment here that I can tell...
...but he may have just started one.
Vote: Gorrad-
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RedCoyote Jack of All Trades
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I really agree with nocase's post 525.
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Did you ask me a question?Antihero 541 wrote:Oh, so now we're playing that game. Just pretend I don't exist, right?
You don't see why Chevre was such a big wagon? You had her on your OK lynch list earlier. Or did you forget about that?
No, I didn't forget about that. That was before she was blindsided with this silly "you didn't react properly to DGB's trick!" move which I thought was pretty shady. Even without that, I still see other people who are acting, in my opinion, less town than Chevre is. It stands to reason then that I wouldn't see how her wagon could grow larger than any of those people.
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Although I applaud you for not attempting to place every one of nocase's posts in a negative light (far too many players do this when they're trying to convince others how scummy someone is), I feel a little disconnected from the greater point you're making here.Gorrad 545 wrote:To summarize: The vast majority of Nocase's play has been defensive/gut-read bandwagoning. He's hiding behind short, non-offensive posts while leaving his options WIDE open for who he could vote for later on. His short bits of scumhunting could be easily faked, and he has contributed nothing to this game other than a false start.
You say nocase is overly defensive. Okay, in what way? I don't recall there being any big move against nocase with the exception of his post restriction thing. What's wrong with short posts? How are they non-offensive? I've seen him willing to stir the pot a little bit this game. I don't exactly see how he's leaving his options open either. I don't recall him backing off of any big statements or anything. Am I missing something?
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The last time I used this argument against Kat, I was scum, Dutch. Are you?Dutch 548 wrote:I'm playing in another Mafia game (square enix mafia IV), and in that game, Katsuke recently joined as a replacement. She is quite active there, but at the same time she says she is a bit inactive at this Mafia because she is so incredibly busy. If you were really that busy, then you wouldn't join another game as a replacement.-
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RedCoyote Jack of All Trades
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RedCoyote Jack of All Trades
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No, she doesn't. That makes her dangerous, heh.Dutch 573 wrote:And you said you used this argument in an earlier game already against her? Does that mean she always act like this?
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I don't understand what you mean here. Because of the nocase and Spy votes?Kmd 574 wrote:Gorrad - 5 - nocase, inHimshallibe, Gorrad, SpyreX, Dutch one
Gorrad is town.
I like how immediately after you said this, DGB votes you.Kmd 574 wrote:All we need is for her to start OMGUSing her accusers and give away her buddies. (lol, she OMGUS'd Chevre a little later).
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But I don't think she's "spamming" much this game, do you? I think it's moving at a slow-to-moderate pace. Relatively she may be in the top three as far as posting goes, but I couldn't call it spamming in the sense that DGB is capable of doing. That's not to say that I necessarily think this is all valid, but I just want to put my two cents in about the issue regardless.farside 578 wrote:I'm going to stick with the keep and eye on DGB and note that she plays this way as scum and town, but I note she does seem to spam more as town.
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I like what you say, Gorrad. I mean, I think you're being sincere here, regardless of your alignment. I just don't agree with you. I've looked over nocase multiple times now, and I don't the above as a huge negative trait. The whole defensive argument sounds like the pot calling the kettle black to me, and, if nocase was being a little defensive, I probably think you're more guilty of it anyway.Gorrad 584 wrote:He's using votes as a means of detering the attack. Short posts aren't always bad, but his are as he's using them to just make a short comment that applies to the situation but isn't helpful (see the post of his after yours). He's willing to stir the pot, but he doesn't do anything like, say, Korlash (huge post to combat SpyreX's generally considered good case) or DGB (Random amounts of extreme pressure). HE just softly pokes around with no stated reasoning. He leaves his options open by stating that he's willing to lynch almost half the gorram town.
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Point taken, but then why aren't you going after Chevre or nocase as opposed to DGB? Do you put that much stock on being able to read DGB's meta? Because this is all I've really seen you say about her thus far.Kmd 591 wrote:The first thing to catch my interest in tonight's read is something that was said by Chevre. She claims that anything out of the ordinary is scummy. As wrong as that is, the mere assumption is the least of my worries in that statement. I'm more concerned with the fact that Chevre has that belief, yet went out of her way to keep an open mind with Nocase.
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This sounds like grasping for straws, although I would like to know what Kmd meant when he said that he forgot inHim when he clearly did not.DGB 595 wrote:This sounds like scum wanting to be rid of the players most likely to catch him and his scumpals.
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I agree.farside 597 wrote:The fact he voting based on meta is lazy.
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I'm glad you brought this back up. I remember not liking Cyberbob here, originally, but I didn't really have an issue with him at the time. This was before he went off on Chevre for not responding properly to DGB, which really opened my eyes. Yeah, I have really moved away from my early town inklings on Cyberbob.ckd 608 wrote:this is a scummy ass post and bad reasoning to jump on a hot bandwagon.....
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I feel like farside just found something big on werewolf. I wouldn't be crying if werewolf took a lynch here.farside 617 wrote:As you can see from the finished game that wolf was town he scum hunted more and actually made cases instead of following the crowd as he is here.
I don't like werewolf's reaction. I would've felt much better if he said that each game was an island and told farside to come off her cloud. As it stands though, farside looks as though she unearthed something important and werewolf comes across as a guilty child trying to look for a bs excuse to get out of it (I don't mean this derogatively, werewolf, I just mean to give an image of how it is playing in my head).
Unvote;vote: werewolf555
It makes a very interesting game, by the way. I forgot to mention this earlier.
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Also, just something that occurred to me. I know these points are kind of scattered about, but I'm honestly just trying to catchup here because my last couple of posts were more like stopgaps as I concentrated on other games more heavily. Xalxe, why are you acting so... I don't even know exactly how to put this... mediative? I'm not even sure if it's scummy or not, but it's really giving me a strange, unsettling vibe. Is this a playstyle thing or is it specific to this game?-
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RedCoyote Jack of All Trades
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RedCoyote Jack of All Trades
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No, no, no. I mean, like, uh, just a really diplomatic nature of your posting. It always seems like you're trying to coalesce people rather than give firm opinions. I don't know. I just wanted you to know that I was noticing this and if I may bring it up later. Right now I see you as okay though.Xalxe 628 wrote:RC, I'm not quite sure what you mean. If it's the short nature of my posts, that's fairly in line for me. I don't do wall-o-text posts unless I'm trying to majorly get a conviction on someone the rest of the players isn't considering.
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Nonsense. That was a horrible reaction to farside. You were ready to string up Chevre over ignoring your fake vigshot earlier. This is clearly worse. Instead of telling farside to take a hike with that meta crap, he tries to get her modkilled. I don't buy that he was just mad because it happened to him before. I mean, it's possible, but even if it was, why didn't he defend himself in addition to mentioning that it was an ongoing game? Nah, not good enough. I think we're going to have to put the puppy down. I know how much you'll miss him back at the QT, but it's for the best.DGB 629 wrote:werewolf is fresh-noob-day1-lynch-meat.
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farside 1 - werewolf/DGB 0farside 631 wrote:He's also hiding, lying and misrepresenting a few things he said in this game. I don't except that as noob town.
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What is this? What are you talking about? You mean in defense of your Gorrad vote? Context helps.inHim 633 wrote:I read nothing that didn't convince me further of what I had believed before, outside of "Oh, hey, KMD is gonna try."
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No, I didn't. Honestly the game makes little difference to me. Meta arguments are so-so at best in my eyes. I was more concerned over his reaction to you and his reluctance to standup for himself.farside 635 wrote:I'm not changing my vote but I'm definitely looking at RC when I ask that question, with a maybe I should think and look more closely at DO.
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XDDGB 637 wrote:Join date doesn't matter, he still has that new car scent.
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farside 2 - werewolf/DGB 0farside 641 wrote:That game is over. That is a newbie game where the mod didn't change the title. He does have an ongoing game he was active. The modkilled game he is bitter about was a misreprep........also avoiding a game is not a town tell
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I agree 100%.Antihero 648 wrote:Well, there's a really easy way to see if KMD is selectively lurking. Let's look at his posts site-wide...
Nope, his posting is pretty consistent across the board.
Picking through KMD's posts, I don't see much fluff, but you're right that he needs to hurry up.
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You skimmed, bobby, at least on my account. This is all reaction, this is all werewolf's doing in this game. I could care less if farside gave us a link to a Greek twitter account. werewolf is no good. The fact that he'd try to get farside killed rather than defend himself is just music to my little townie ears.Cyberbob 662 wrote:Werewolf wagon sucks bigtime. I don't like wagons predicated so heavily upon people's posting habits in other threads and half the people jumping on aren't even paying lipservice to the thought of explaining why.
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Not if I shoot you first.DGB 667 wrote:You guys are forcing me to vig KMD.
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farside 3 - werewolf/DGB 0farside 681 wrote:So you get to glide by following people and offering nothing of your own opinion, then blame others when or if they are wrong?
Also I want an answer to how you can be bitter about a modkill when your death was a forgone conclusion?
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I, for one, am not selling this wagon short.Korlash 688 wrote:Can we skip the part where everyone gives up on werewolf as seems to be this games M.O. and just jump onto Spy now?-
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RedCoyote Jack of All Trades
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It has nothing to do with meta, werewolf, as I just explained to Cyberbob, but, then again, I don't think you really care. Because no one who's voting you is thinking clearly or rationally, right? We're all scum out to get you.
Same goes for yabba, obviously. Although with him I suspect he's naturally going to be a little frayed because 30 pages is quite a bit to digest in one sitting.-
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RedCoyote Jack of All Trades
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I'm like the anti-iamausername in regards to werewolf. I absolutely don't get how someone could rationally look at him and see someone who is being honest, forthright, and trying his hardest. I don't see these characteristics at all, newb or not. I do not see a better lynch today. Certainly not Chevre and Kmd, and mostly not Seraphim and Gorrad. Seraphim has just grinded to a halt at a particularly bad time (right after he laid into Chevre). I don't know, it makes it seem like he's holding out here. I don't really think he's too scummy, but it's hard to defend someone who isn't doing anything.-
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RedCoyote Jack of All Trades
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I will say that I don't like nocase and DGB starting a spankin' new wagon presumably for shits and giggles though. Seraphim hasn't done anything recently to justify some fresh attack while werewolf has only gotten worse.-
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RedCoyote Jack of All Trades
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Do you?RC 747 wrote:Seraphim hasn't done anything recently to justify some fresh attack while werewolf has only gotten worse.
You could come up with all the evidence in the world, it still doesn't explain why you're just now turning to him. You asked him one question when he made that post, and, let's check out your scumlist a couple of days after he made the so-called "big tell".
So it really seems suspect that just now Seraphim is deserved of a new wagon when he supposedly had previously ranked at least 9th or lower in your scumreads. Granted, you brought him up a few ranks in a recent list, but that remained unexplained as well.nocase 410 wrote:i'm ready to vote:
gorrad
werewolf555
runner
curiouskarmadog
xalxe
katsuki
redcoyote
chevre (more hesitantly)
tell me where to put my vote, guys.-
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RedCoyote Jack of All Trades
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GD and completed games aren't exactly the best evidence, but I take your point. I didn't realize he was really just brushing this game off that much.farside 752 wrote:I look at Sera from time to time. He is most definitely actively lurking. I see him posting fine through out MS. I didn't like him before and since he isn't helping the game.
In that case, I partially withdraw my issue with you, nocase.
Not nearly enough to top the wolfster though, imo.-
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RedCoyote Jack of All Trades
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Have you really, Xalxe? Would you mind if I checked your post history to verify this, because offhand I am doubting many of your posts have been standing on a soapbox in favor of lynching Chevre, and they certainly haven't been going on "for pages". I could be wrong though. Do I need to go back and check or do you want to backtrack a little bit?-
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RedCoyote Jack of All Trades
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RedCoyote Jack of All Trades
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You know what I realized? Gorrad is lurking just as much as Kmd and Seraphim at this point. I feel for the Mod, and I don't blame him for cutting our deadline. A staggering amount of players are shirking on their responsibilities. That said, the Chevre argument isn't anymore appealing now that yabba has dug up all the same issues most of us had with her back when the game started, so I see no point in resurrecting a crappy wagon that was just an excuse to really get the game rolling. I've been beating around the bush, but in my eyes Chevre has done enough to defend from her detractors since her gigantic post (which was probably the pinnacle of her scumminess, at least speaking for myself).
Gorrad hasn't really changed. He was doing good defending himself against nocase, but when he had the primo opportunity to really get on offense after werewolf slipped up (whether he got on the werewolf wagon or not), he completely dropped the ball.
So, what to do? You have Kmd, Seraphim, and Gorrad, none of them really care much about the game (whether they do or not is irrelevant because actions speak louder than words), and it would be hypocritical of me to try and defend one or two and concentrate my venom on the others. I still have faith in the wolf wagon here, but I just wanted to let everyone important in this game know (you all know who you are) that I am growing more and more impatient with the three aforementioned players.
Also, Cyberbob, I appreciate your catching up post and I think it's pretty good. I keep going back and forth on you, but you're probably town. Don't let me forget I said this later in the game should we spar again at some point.-
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RedCoyote Jack of All Trades
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Well, Weatherman, it's difficult, if not impossible, to put yourself in that same situation. It's a more than a little out of context to label me as feigning emotions, given that a fair number of "psyche-outs" and reaction fishing attempts have happened throughout the game.
The Kat vote thing, well, that was the best option at the time. Far better than Chevre and Antihero, I thought, the other two big wagons, and it was worth poking her a little bit to see what would come out. Others apparently disagreed. I certainly don't view her as an "easy lynch", but rather I would've hoped that my pressure by voting had have sprung her into action a bit more. It did not, but she did replace out.
Anyways, I'm having a hard time stomaching the amount of gut feelings in your overall case. You say that the things I say don't feel like things a townie would say and compare me to two different players I've never played with before. I don't recall having played with you before either, even though you propose to know a great deal about what you think I would or wouldn't say as a townie. I hope you won't take offensive to me writing off your case as little more than some false meta supposition, something that I'd argue you had little context with which to judge me on.
Moreover, you undercut your own attempt at building a new wagon from the ground up (with less than two weeks until our deadline, no less) by admitting to us that you don't have a firm handle on your reread. You shouldn't be criticized for this necessarily, but I think you would be better served having at least that knowledge of the game should you insist on coming after me. The worst part, however, the part that actually may be valid grounds with which to criticize you on, is your ignorance of why werewolf and Gorrad at least are where they are in the vote count.
So as pretty and theoretical as your conclusions appear, you effectively have dodged the biggest issues we have in front of us, Gorrad and werewolf. To be even more frank, I don't exactly know why you'd not see that as a good starting point before diving into the game. To be fair, though, I'll give you props for touching on a majority of the players.
But you have plenty of time, so I look forward to future analysis. I just hope you aren't content to rest on what little you've actually given us so far.-
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This.DrippingGoofball wrote:
Yeah, your vague promise to iso ONLY the current vote leader and easy lynch is soooooooo townieGorrad wrote:Ok, nocase wagon has gone nowhere. I'll do that WW iso like I promised when I have a second to breathe. The last two weeks have been ridiculous ><.*cough* *cough*-
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The only thing I've really seen in werewolf's favor is "he's too newb to be scum", which is such a silly argument, as crypto pointed out, that I don't even really want to seriously acknowledge it. I don't see why it's the wolf wagon that should concede here. Players like inHim are going to come and go, but it pisses me off that nocase (who else?) runs away at the drop of a hat. So the werewolf wagon is the silent majority and DGB and now yabba are bullying the players on it until they submit. Wonderful.
Even if I think Gorrad is a good compromise lynch, which I do, I don't like how the werewolf wagon has the rug pulled out from under it just because farside, Dutch, and/or I aren't here 24/7. Gorrad is being played up like he's some sort of monster Mafia player, and, although I'm sure he is, he isn't in this game. In this game he's just another lurker right along side of Kmd, Seraphim, and username as far as I'm concerned. I've got a wall post forthcoming, but I just wanted to get this off my chest.-
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Exactly what I said was. One of them was arguing about whether the other was supposed to have seen something happen before in a game that took place several months ago or not. Perhaps, in your infinite knowledge, you were easily able to decipher the meaning and merit of the argument without hesitation. I, on the other hand, saw it as trivial and confusing.Weatherman 825 wrote:What was confusing about farside/Korlash?
You admit this at your own peril, then.Weatherman 825 wrote:The bias I might have would be for finding your scum play transparent before more than anything. when you feel like you've nailed someone you get a feeling of wanting to do that again.
Look, more power to you. As I said, you shouldn't necessarily be criticized for speaking your mind, I'm just pointing out the obvious: You spent a disproportional amount of time attempting to sully my name when I think that time could've been been better spent weighing the progression of the top tier wagons before us. You did this knowingly, as you volunteered to replace in, and you did this under the previous admission that you could possibly be suffering from some sort of meta-bias on one player in the game (not that I argue that's why you entered the game, but that you knew making your first "real" post the struggle, to put it mildly, that it'd take to not only subvert the game's historical wagon progression, but to literally pull another candidate up from nowhere).Weatherman 825 wrote:Two weeks is a hell of a lot of time btw, as you yourself state in the same post, somewhat contradictorily, so deadline-inefficiency is not an argument at this point
And that's what makes me raise an eyebrow, not the two week thing.
No, especially now that you've clarified your stance a bit. I think it's in bad form to turn a blind eye to the major wagons as though they the don't deserve any sort of prioritized attention. This is more of a theoretical argument though, so it's nothing to write home about.Weatherman 825 wrote:I don't understand your last sentence's function. Are you criticizing me for it or not? Is it bad/scummy play to jump on you in the meanwhile or not?
I should mention that the issue is somewhat ironically compounded by the fact that you replaced Runner. At least for the first roughly 20 pages, as you've no doubt noticed given how understandably fixated you are with my posts, had I been given the opportunity to lynch anyone I wanted, the top two candidates would've likely been Kat and Runner.
I didn't literally count the number of players you touched on (this is the verb I used, by the way. It's a far cry from "meaningful opinion". Was this purposeful or is this a misunderstanding?), but you brought up several different names in what seemed like a majority of players.Weatherman 825 wrote: I didn't give meaningful opinions on nearly a majority. not even a third.
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Sure, but what have you done lately, friend?Gorrad 826 wrote:I made a huge Iso on someone who had no one looking funny at him. People generally ignored it.
And, let's be honest, it's not exactly like your case was all that groundbreaking when it was fresh. Had you have been a little more active, well, who knows? As it stands though, we're notreallytalking about a nocase lynch.
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This isn't the argument.Weatherman 829 wrote:The meta argument that convinced people seemed incorrect to me.
This isn't the argument.
This isn't the argument.
This isn't the argument.
I've said it thrice before, which you apparently didn't catch because you haven't gotten there yet, and I'll say it again for you. Hell, I'll probably have to say it again for Poker, too. Cyberbob, yabba, and DGB all attempted to write the entire wagon off as some meta trick, but that's absolutely not the case at all. I swear to goodness if I hear this lame attempt at undercutting the werewolf wagon one more time I'm going to absolutely lose it.
Weatherman 829 wrote:RedCoyote, did you take a look at the game farside linked?RC 692 wrote:No, I didn't. Honestly the game makes little difference to me. Meta arguments are so-so at best in my eyes. I was more concerned over his reaction to you and his reluctance to standup for himself.
I had no reason to. If it was inaccurate, werewolf would've called farside out. I'm not prescribing a set townie reaction either. At the very least he could've said the entire meta argument was invalid from the outset. He could've flowed with her and pointed to other games where he's acted differently. He could've went on offense against farside or someone else entirely. The sky's the limit here. What he chooses to do, instead, is ask for her to be modkilled and then effectively ignores the issue. When pressed, he calls everyone who's voting him scum and has yet to really return.Weatherman 829 wrote:If NO, how can you have so little curiosity as town on something that you think was a big find/would not want to verify it yourself?
Now that's some trifecta of horrible, horrible reactions, if I do say so myself.
What difference does this make? Modkilling, or the threat thereof, is in just about every ruleset ever put forth by a modern MS Mod. All Mods are different, just like all people, and have different degrees of latitude for rule violations. If being modkilled gives you an excuse to start pushing it on others, then does successfully lurking in one game give you an excuse to do it in all games? This is just a bastardized version of "if Johnny jumps off a bridge, would you?"Weatherman 829 wrote:As come for the bs excuse, actually don't find werewolf's "is that a modkill" a bs excuse at all, and most of all it is one that is easily verifiable. I just searched 5 minutes on msutils and indeed found a very recent modkill on werewolf on an ongoing in an exactly similar situation, linking to another ongoing game, where werewolf was clearly burnt for ignorance.
The point is, you have werewolf clamoring for a modkill as opposed to him defending himself, defending his meta, attacking farside, or attacking anyone else. That's not townie sounding, not by a long shot.
I will make one concession. In that quote you pulled, I shouldn't have specifically quoted that sentence from farside. That game honestly had nothing to do with the point I was making, so I take at least that amount of the blame for the laziness (or intentional deriding) you, Cyberbob, yabba, and DGB presented us with.
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@yabba:
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You did nothing of the sort. You called the case against werewolf a meta case and you said that Spyrex's original case against Gorrad was unconvincing. It has evolved since then. Both of them have, really.Weatherman 842 wrote:uh, looking at my last two posts, total bullshit?
I just isoed the 2 biggest wagons for god's sake and said to further research the reactions to gorrad soon.
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What the fuck?Antihero 851 wrote:/apathy
You're were in the majority wagon. You were at the head and a significant part of its formation. Why would you "apathetically" swing off of it and onto the Gorrad wagon? Why would you not elaborate?
You just absolutely killed any town creditability you built up in my eyes at the mid-part of this day, Antihero. I hope your apathy is worth that.
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How about you actually engage people for a change?Xalxe 853 wrote:How many votes does werewolf have now?-
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RedCoyote Jack of All Trades
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What, Chevre? I don't like the case against Chevre. I've explained why I thought the vig shot aftermath was so laughably concocted and bordering on scummy for the actual perpetrators rather than Chevre herself.
Other than that, I've failed to see any new developments since, like, page 9.-
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Um, I'm really not all that sure what you're asking me. I didn't think you supported either wagon, but if you're saying that you favor the Gorrad wagon, then I'd say it's a good coincidence that you're siding with the apparent majority. I'm disappointed that you'd choose that, but it's better than letting you vote grow moss on Seraphim.-
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Couldn't have said it better myself.Weatherman 941 wrote:
What. The. Fuck.Antihero wrote:And you're wondering why I'm getting apathetic? werewolf lynch >>>>>>> gorrad lynch at this point, but people just think they can swoop in and go "lol, werewolf wagon sux balls, gorrad wagon FTW!!!!" Talking to these people is like talking to a lead block, and I'm tired of getting crapped on for no damn reason.
You changed from werewold to Gorrad when the situation was
werewolf 8
Gorrad 4
Actions and convictions in massive conflict.
Let's end this day on a high note of RC and Weatherman coming to a mutual understanding in their sudden heightened suspicions of Antihero.
Unvote;vote: Gorrad-
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Well, I've never heard of a secret deadline in a normal game.Mod, may I just ask if this is player-influenced or Mod-influenced? If you can answer, that is. I just want to know if this is something your doing as, like, a test experiment or not.
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As I already saw mentioned on the way up here, this is a very basic tell. Frankly, I can't even twist this post to make it seem sincere. It's completely and utterly focused on the flips. There's no analysis in here at all. There's no vote in here at all. This is pure reaction, pure, just, emotional regurgitation of what everyone already knows. Overall, it's an ugly, ugly post that does not have any place coming out of a town player's mouth.Dutch 965 wrote:Crap! We lost a doctor. well, at least Xalxe is gone. But I'm quite disappointed that both Gorrad and Werewolf turned out to be VT's.
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I don't really like this either. This is just a very lame reaction post, but, at the very least, ckd reminds us that he had scum reads on both of these players. Additionally, ckd is unafraid to vote (as I'd expect one should be).ckd 967 wrote:had a feeling about Xalve....but also had a feeling about ww, so I guess it was a wash.
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I wish you would stop this. There are more than one scum in this game, yabba. If you are not willing to consider anything besides a Chevre led scumteam, then you may or may not find yourself disappointed and lost should that flip not go your way. I mean, every lynch besides Chevre just cannot be a "complacency" lynch to you. I don't accept that coming from any town-aligned player, certainly not you.yabba 969 wrote:Antihero is an intriguing case, but I would, once again, like to label him as a complacency lynch until a) I actually read through his input and interactions into the game and b) well... at least Chevre goes through. I'm still sure that nocase is a good follow-up to that, but clearly very few are swayed by that argument.
Could you elaborate more on this? I reread this part a couple of times, but I'm unsure what you are referencing. Do you mean a Dutch lynch or a Jerbs lynch?yabba 971 wrote:This is another lynch that I'm sure won't go through but might be worthwhile somewhere down the line.
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You misread. That was in reference to nocase's previous post. I didn't realize my post would start a new page, so it looks very confusing if you don't have that context. Basically nocase asked me if I could read (presumably because he wanted it know that he had a reason for voting Seraphim), and I just reinforced my point that Seraphim hadn't done anything from when nocase had no issue with him to when he suddenly did.PF 972 wrote:@RC
viewtopic.php?p=2772322#p2772322
why did you self quote here? Did you question your own reads of seraphim or did i totally misread?
Well, I mean, the implication is clearly there. I agree he didn't straight up ask for a modkill in so many words, but he was basically implying it. "hmm, I got modkilled for this... WHAT DO YOU THINK, KK???"PF 972 wrote:In reading RC's post I come across another question. I don't think Werewolf asked for farside to be modkilled I thought he wondered if farside would for something he had done before. I don't think he asked for farside to die back there. Do you disagree?
Of course the point is null at this point. It appears he didn't mean anything by it.
Please. What was wrong with my responses to him? If you're going to piggyback on his attacks, then at least tell me what is speaking to you. I think I've addressed him fairly well. Additionally, Gorrad was a scumread of mine, I just had a much better one. Both of them turned out to be wrong, so, whatever.PF 972 wrote:weatherman has been bringing up some good points on so i have been rethinking things on him. His jump from WW to gorrad did feel a little contrived
All due respect, PF, but your reads are kind of shitty as a whole. I mean, I know you're trying to replace in, so I don't want to be overly critical. I don't want to you to spend 3 hours composing a wall either. I just hope to see you making comments from this point forth that follow the game rather than try to go back in time anymore.
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I was about ready to criticize you for this, but I think this makes sense. If Xalxe got his shot off, farside is the only one that makes sense for his shot. I sincerely doubt the scum/Xalxe would've tried to shoot werewolf.DGB 980 wrote:Why did the scum kill Xalxe?
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Antihero would be the most lovely lynch, but I have no problem with giving our friend Dutch a little time in the spotlight.
Korlash does a good job of wrapping it up. yabba explains it as well.
Vote: Dutch one-
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RedCoyote Jack of All Trades
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I've never been one to excuse people from being scum because of their experience or lackthereof. There are some people you are more or less willing to cut a little slack given their meta or given that they made a questionable statement, but that doesn't mean they can't be scum. I see no reason to look past Dutch in this instance, let alone write him off as obvtown.Weatherman 1030 wrote:First of all, the Dutch one is one crappy wagon. I really don't buy it. He sounded like a super sincere noob on D1.
I can have other suspicions; I can work other angles. Yes, I specifically noted Antihero because I didn't want people to forget that I didn't care for the quote here, but we obviously have a fundamental disagreement over Dutch at the moment (and it's not our first). I want Dutch to take some flak over his opening statement. Maybe he'll satisfy me, and maybe he won't.Weatherman 1030 wrote:RedCoyote who echoed on my point on Antihero as excellent in the same post in which he hammered Gorrad, and then his first post today went like "the Antihero lynch would be the loveliest but hey I can also support this great thing on the Dutch one"
That is really fishy. That tostart the day with? A-hero already had one vote, the start of the day is where you don't compromize if you're actually interested => me no like.
If you want to analyze it, that's fine by me. Why was there no analysis? If you want to vote based on it, that's fine by me. Why was there no vote? It's just this pure, "Dang! They got our doctor... frowny face. But at least we nabbed that serial killer... happy face." It's the most basic type of psychological manipulation. You're trying to tell everyone that you feel just like they do, and it's okay. It's like a forced empathy. I mean, I don't want to sound like I know anything about psychology, I just call out worthless drivel when I see it. This particular worthless drivel was aimed at making Dutch seem like "part of the town" more than anything else that I can tell. Unless you can point me to someone analytical angle that I'm missing.Weatherman 1034 wrote:I mean, any player would have a reaction to the new information to themselves. Any player would think to themselves the obvious the the Dutch one stated.
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Yes, please, let us not forget about this.Chevre 1045 wrote:I think if I am lynched/killed before Dutch one, you should immediately lynch Dutch one afterwards. The way he buddied me seemed like scum trying to appear town by saying "I told you so" after I'm lynched. Now with his reaction to the night's events, we know he will do that.
I never much cared for Dutch's position on Chevre.RC 319 wrote:
This is a big allegation that I think is unwarranted. You should expand on this, or I'm just going to assume you are slinging mud here.Dutch 300 wrote:I agree with Chevre, your choice seems a bit pointless.. you're probably just voting Chevre because that is a large wagon...-
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Well, I never thought he sounded that sincere. I thought Runner sounded even worse. What do you think of that?Weatherman 1063 wrote:I'm not "excusing" him, I'm stating he sounded super sincere D1, and acted like a noob. noobness is independent of sincerety, but a trait how to categorize his behaviour (meta climate matters a huge amount so i don't care about 5 games on some other site).
Yes. At the moment, I would say so, yeah.Weatherman 1063 wrote:Do you think Antihero would be the best lynch? Y/N please.
I mean, if you're going to continue to push this idea that a person may only go after one target and it must be their biggest current scumread, then that's your prerogative. I'm guilty as charged of not subscribing to that policy. I'm a pragmatist and a realist. I realize that my reads aren't infallible, I realize that there are multiple scum, and I realize that you can't always get what you want in this game.
1.) It has nothing to do with being 20 minutes into the day or 20 days into the day. The content is absolute crap. You know it. I know it. Dutch knows it.Weatherman 1063 wrote:"This first post of the day made 20 minutes after the opening of the thread is OBVSCUM and never could come from town's mouth because it's an inexperienced player blurting aloud the obvious and has no analysis or vote. No town would ever state the obvious! Instead it must be scum PRETENDING to do so to fit in. Why? Because it's just what the town thinks. Look, look, it's in the wiki!"
2.) This is the second timeyou'rebring his experience into the game to defend him. I never said a word about his experience. If DGB had taken the positions Dutch has over this game and made a post like that, I'd have voted her.
3.) It's more than just "stating the obvious". There's no analysis, no vote, and no logical content involved there. It's a pure emotional reaction meant on conveying feelings of, I'd argue, false empathy. He wants to attempt to reinforce the idea that he's part of the town in a backhanded sort of way.
4.) I don't scumhunt based on the wiki. The logic is sound enough to stand on it's own. I've not referenced the wiki as my foundation.
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Oh, I agree. Antihero most certainly. One between DGB and Cyberbob is probably another, and I'm not really 100% on inHim or Spy either.Kmd 1074 wrote:Korlash, I believe that a Day 1 mislynch almost always contains multiple scums. Also, Gorrad was obvtown. Werewolf, not so much.-
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I've made my peace with the fact that you'll never like my posts, username. You've clearly got a friend in Weatherman, and I wish you both the best. I'll tell you what I told him. If you want to push me on the basis of not focusing on one person, then so be it. I implore you to prove me wrong about the strength of an Antihero wagon, because I would be interested in seeing it gain steam and hopefully joining it. If Antihero ever starts posting, I'd of course be interested in poking him some. If it'd make you feel a little better, I'll reiterate the fact that I want to hear more from Antihero because I did not like his Gorrad vote at all.
With that said, I see something unsavory in Dutch, and I want to point it out. I have few ways of doing this other than my vote and my text. You and Weatherman have a real political issue with players using their vote this way. It's a reasonable issue, but not one I subscribe to. Yesterday I hammered Gorrad with my vote, not because I saw him as the most scummy, but because I saw no way of getting the werewolf wagon back to the forefront. I could've held out, but it so happened that I saw the Gorrad wagon as reasonable and was willing to move my vote there. I'm not trying to equate the situation here, but I do see both Dutch and Antihero as scummy, I do not see them as very far apart degree-wise, and I would like both of them to post more.-
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As username pointed out, people are more receptive to lynching Antihero today than I initially thought. Earlier in the game, both Korlash and DGB liked Antihero for town. Chevre almost never talks about Antihero (rest assured, if Antihero flips scum, my townChevre read is taking a nosedive. Rejoice, yabba.) inHim has had Antihero as solidly town this game. Kmd has had Antihero as solidly town. nocase, like Chevre, has had very little to say about Antihero as well.PF 1080 wrote:Are you voting Dutch because you think he is scumier than antihero or that he needs pressure right now? You kinda made simular remarks at antihero yesterday and voted elsewhere too. Basically why are you voting Dutch over hero when you seem to dislike hero more. If its just for pressure then do you plan to join the push for hero's death today?
And unless I'm still reading you wrong, did you say Dutch's reaction to the flips was worthless?
Top this off with the fact that, outside of that horrible, horrible vote, I was really seeing Antihero as town myself.
So, I mean, that's half the game right there. Dutch, on the other hand, you can go back and find numerous instances of people suspecting him. I was probably going to start the day with an Antihero vote, but Dutch's post was extremely ugly, and, I saw no reason why he shouldn't have been criticized for it.
I don't understand your second question. No, Dutch's reactions are not worthless. Quite the opposite.
What's your point?PF 1080 wrote:Something that just came to mind. DGB argues that the xalxe kill was a cross kill where scum wanted to kill scum. This would require 2 things. Scum knowing their are multiple groups and scum thinking xalxe is scum or wanting to get rid of xalxe to protect themselves. I don't think anyone had 2 out of those 3 reasons to kill xalxe.
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I'll concede that I underestimated how much Antihero hate there was, but I made it pretty clear that I am happy with either lynch. You and Weatherman need to get that through your heads.username 1092 wrote:Yes. The question is, why didn't you?
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http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 3#p2782843ckd 1101 wrote:what is the case on Anti-hero again? and why is this wagoning developing so fast for no apparent reason?
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I just noticed the same thing when I did some research for my response to your post 1080. You are probably town, PF.PF 1107 wrote:At the moment yes though i am considering looking into the antihero wagon. Iamusername's homework is good and it notes conections between antihero and chevre. I have noticed quite a few between dutch and chevre.
Well, duh. Who else would've shot him?PF 1107 wrote:Either a vig hated xalxe or scum hated him.
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The only thing that really makes me nervous about you is how confident you sound. I mean, I agree that it was a good catch when Antihero voted Gorrad out of nowhere, by no means do I think that makes him obvious scum. You have to understand we have two entirely different interpretations on Dutch and, apparently, two entirely different interpretations on Antihero's post. We both think it's scummy, yes, but you have got it in your head that I'm trying to sneak a Dutch vote in out of nowhere, which is clearly not the case. I'veWeatherman 1110 wrote:Start of a day you cannot even know the positions of others; you automatically reverted to your second choice which is very weird in a situation where you basically start from scratch (second day, extremely early, first wagon just up after one day). That is not pragmatism, that is not when you compromize unless you're half-assed about what you're pushing.neverbeen fond of Dutch this game. On the other hand, I've had ups and downs with Antihero.
And you can keep pushing me on how I'm not being reasonable or prudent, but I will not apologize for using my vote as a tool.
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You abandoned it without reason! You never responded to me or Weatherman!Antihero 1112 wrote: The people who are crapping on my "fluffy posting" are the same people who were crapping on the werewolf wagon yesterday. If his posting wasn't fluffy and useless, I don't know whose is.-
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Well, ckd, considering the fact he won't engage me on the point despite asking him twice and having it brought up at least four different occasions now isn't doing him any favors.
Additionally, do you think there was scum on the Gorrad lynch, and, if so, whom?-
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RedCoyote Jack of All Trades
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Antihero doesn't seem to care all that much about helping the town, so I see no reason why the town should care all that much about sparing him from a lynch.
Spy, do you think Antihero is being honest about his switch to Gorrad yesterday?-
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RedCoyote Jack of All Trades
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RedCoyote Jack of All Trades
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nocase, can't we do a bargain here? Antihero then Xtoxm (with a contingency for anything relatively unusual that may or may not take place in the interim)? username's last post was on the money.-
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RedCoyote Jack of All Trades
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Yeah, because threatening not to read the game if we don't stop suspecting you will really get you town points.Xtoxm 1178 wrote:Being tunneled has just made me kinda apathetic about this game.
Wow, if only you had done this a week ago you could've kept on living your life as a PR (assuming you are) undercover.Xtoxm 1191 wrote:Vote: Antihero
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This.Korlash 1209 wrote:I'd throw my vote on anti-hero here but it's a dumb situation. We have two people who haven't claimed a damn thing. Unfortunately I think anti needs to elaborate more or the situation needs to be dropped. I don't see that happening so I'll be waiting for Anti-hero.-
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RedCoyote Jack of All Trades
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RedCoyote Jack of All Trades
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RedCoyote Jack of All Trades
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RedCoyote Jack of All Trades
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RedCoyote Jack of All Trades
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RedCoyote Jack of All Trades
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Agree with Spy 100% in all things said over the past couple of pages.
Unvote;vote: Dutch_one
I don't look forward to another ten pages of debate between Chevre, Dutch, or a PF lynch. We've got firm proponents in all sides, I think.-
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RedCoyote Jack of All Trades
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You're all over the place, Dutch, but I'm less enthused about voting you for some reason. That post seems rather genuine. I don't know, maybe we should just stick to the Gorrad wagon?
Someone offered to vote inHim, I think I can get behind that. inHim has been really flaky with his votes.
Unvote;vote: inHimshallibe-
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RedCoyote Jack of All Trades
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RedCoyote Jack of All Trades
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If you guys are going to force me to choose between Chevre and Dutch, you know I'm going to choose Dutch. Chevre is not scum.
DGB, how's that big list of reads of yours holding up? Have you been updating it?-
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RedCoyote Jack of All Trades
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