NY136: The Death of ReaperCharlie (GAME OVER, Town win!)

[DemonHybrid]

Vote: kondi2424

[DemonHybrid]

Hydra: Why did you first suggest Yos was scummy?

[DemonHybrid]

I thought he'd voted prior to AGM's vote.

Why does that matter?

[DemonHybrid]

Oh by the way me DH and kondi are neighbors and in our neighborhood QT kondi said he wanted to be lynched which is why me and DH are voting him to oblivion.

Now everyone else will read this and do the same, kthx?

Confirming this.

My kondi vote was a very real non-RVS vote.

[DemonHybrid]

Paraphrasing kondi's first and only post of the QT:

"Hey guys! You are awesome neighbors!

You can lynch me sometime, but not Day 1. I want to be able to confirm you guys as neighbors in the future when it's a critical time to do so."

[DemonHybrid]

We can.

[DemonHybrid]

@Hydra: Like I said, and as Parama said for his, my first post/vote was FAR from an RVS vote. It was a very real vote to lynch.

Hydra, did you just assume that the kondi wagon was an RVS wagon in #36?

[DemonHybrid]

I begin to barely see a faint glimmer of why people expressed kondi issues in pre-game.

Cause, yanno. Inconsistencies and, you know, like, stuff.

[DemonHybrid]

JUST a "quick" wagon, or an RVS wagon too?

There's a fine line. I just want to make sure that I have all of your implications.

[DemonHybrid]

Unvote, Vote: Hydra

. I literally did the SAME thing when I was Town Neighbor in my first Mini Normal. Well, I didn't say that it was cool to lynch me, but I did think that esurio and ortiz (at the time) were alignment confirmed.

Going to do some reading on Meransiel, since he seems to be a hot topic.

[DemonHybrid]

Because you are my second biggest suspect under kondi, and kondi thought that the 3 of us were masons, so I unvoted him and placed a vote onto you.

I didn't say kondi's reasoning for thinking "lynch me so that you guys will be confirmed town to everyone" was not stupid. I said it was a town slip. And I think that everyone but you agrees on that, unless I'm mistaken.

[DemonHybrid]

Actually, AGM, I suspect, and I said this in the neighborhood just now, that this is a 3-town neighborhood. Not only did Parama take the liberty to out the team/risk narrowing down the neighborhood (with me suggesting it; I had AGM's #91 reasoning in mind before I suggested to out it) and have the same motivations as I did (almost like a mirrored copy), this REALLY fits into ReaperCharlie's setup meta; as backup mod, I suspect that he was involved in creating the setup with Amrun. I've seen a 3-town neighborhood before.

So, it kinda sucks that we outed this; there are likely no scum in our neighborhood to tell other scum who the neighbors are. But on the other hand, we have a pseudo-3 man mason team.

I'd be voting for Parama right now were it not for the fact that he was so willing to out the 3 of us.

Preview edit: @MoI: I'm talking about Kondi's post at #97. I posted my vote on the first page.

The only interaction kondi had with us at the time of my vote was that first message in the QT, nothing more.

[DemonHybrid]

Yeah, if kondi was scum he would never have suggested that. Thus, town slip.

Lol, the first time I was neighbor I voted instantly on my neighbor, thought for sure he was scum. He wasn't. I didn't get to kill him until endgame. At endgame, I just realized I'm an idiot, and lynched Amrun, winning the game. Good times .

@DH: What do you think are the chances of Parama being scum?
@Parama: What do you think are the chances of DH being scum?

Low.

Did you want an exact number?

[DemonHybrid]

Cool, so now that klondi is town, there's probably one scum between Parama and DemonHybrid.

I’m in pretty much full agreement with AGM that 1 of the 3 probably is Mafia or a Serial Killer of some sort.

@Parama and DH

: Do you agree with the above statements?

No, as I've said already.

Serial Killer is an oddball, though. lewarcher in HOTEL DEATH was a neighbor SK and he coasted the whole game.

I don't know. I have no reason to vote Parama right now whatsoever. He hasn't been remotely scummy.

[DemonHybrid]

Preview edit: @MoI: I'm talking about Kondi's post at #97. I posted my vote on the first page.

The only interaction kondi had with us at the time of my vote was that first message in the QT, nothing more.

That’s irrelevant to my question.

You stated that in the past in your first Mini game you pulled a Neighbor role and mistakenly thought you were alignment confirmed.

But based on what I have seen this ‘relevant’ fact doesn’t cross your mind at all when you are making your assessment of Kondi’s QT post (pre-game). I find that suspect. Since you yourself had made a very similar mistake as a Neighbor you should have considered that when assessing the potential scum factor of Kondi’s post.

But you didn’t. You came out guns blazing by making a ‘serious’ vote for Kondi.

What?

Kondi never expressed the fact that he thought we were

alignment

confirmed UNTIL his first post in the thread on page 4. His first and only post at the time until page 4 in the QT was "Best neighbors ever! Oh, and don't lynch me till later, I want to be able to confirm you guys in the future when it's critical".

He never stated whether he wanted to confirm us as neighbors or as town. Both of us thought he wanted to confirm us as neighbors.

[DemonHybrid]

Interesting. I'm stealing that vote count history idea, if you don't mind.

[DemonHybrid]

What?

Kondi never expressed the fact that he thought we were

alignment

confirmed UNTIL his first post in the thread on page 4. His first and only post at the time until page 4 in the QT was "Best neighbors ever! Oh, and don't lynch me till later, I want to be able to confirm you guys in the future when it's critical".

He never stated whether he wanted to confirm us as neighbors or as town. Both of us thought he wanted to confirm us as neighbors.

Yeah, and despite the fact that made the exact same mistake as a Neighbor yourself you didn't even consider the possibility that Kondi had done just that.

And? I don't go around assuming people are dumb.

[DemonHybrid]

And yes. I WAS dumb in my first game on site. I thought Neighbor was a fancy term for Mason for some stupid reason.

[DemonHybrid]

Maybe so, doesn't make it right or me wrong. So you seriously believe that a mason would try to convince his mason buddies not to lynch him?

If we were all masons, that discussion wouldn't even have to come up, so I don't get your point.

Why was Parama's willingness to out the neighborship pro-town in your eyes?

Exactly for the reason MoI and AGM stated: In most cases, there is at least 1 scum in a 3 man neighborhood. Parama, as scum, would have been cornered eventually and quite possibly lynched out of PoE. As I would have.

This is, paraphrased, how the discussion came about:

Me: Parama, if we can assume one scum in the neighbor team at least, should we out the neighborhood? It'd get rid of RVS and whatnot and scum already know who the neighbors are if that's the case.
Parama: I don't really care. In fact, let me do it.
Me: Go ahead.

Looked like he legitimately thought kondi was scum because of his first post in the QT and wanted to push that. He looks sincere.

[DemonHybrid]

I don't know if I actually buy into that, but I have also expressed a serious question I feel is being shuttled aside under "lol, townslip!" and that is - what sort of 'confirmed alignment' player talks to his confirmed buddies and tells them early on that they shouldn't lynch him just yet - does not compute.

They were talking about lynching me before I posted in the QT.

Before you had posted that (again, paraphrased):

Me: Oh, hai Parama.
Parama: kondi. Ew. Otherwise, best neighborhood. We should lynch him to improve the quality of the neighbor team.
Me: Sure. What do you say, kondi?
kondi: (his post)

RVS pressuring was happening before the game even started.

[DemonHybrid]

Meransiel is 2nd on my scumlist for asking whether we have powers or not, ala kondi's accusation.

I'm still kind of iffy on Hydra. I'm doing an ISO of both after I eat.

[DemonHybrid]

Unvote, Vote: Meransiel

Not only has he been scummy, but if he flips scum, the 3 of us neighbors can rest easy knowing that we're near-confirmed town.

[DemonHybrid]

sapo, trying to make sense of the neighborhood and

asking for PRs

are two completely different ballgames.

MoI:

where has Meran been scummy other than the rolefishing (referencing your post at 148)?

His early game unwillingness to discuss Hydra. His RVS (or what I assume) on Parama, then backing off without any real scum suspects when the game was in full speed suspicion mode. Also, his unwillingness to join the kondi (or, rather, ANY other wagon) to scumhunt or pressure. Stays quiet until kondi townslips. Asks some hollow questions to Parama and I.

He has a trend of picking up an argument for a post or two, then putting it down and forgetting it forever. He asks questions in which he never uses the information. It just seems too spaced out and hollow.

What other possible motivation would he have to offer himself as lynchbait to confirm you as Neighbors other than the fact that he thought it was meaningful to the game (aka it confirmed your alignment)?

I don't know. I do know that there's very weird motivation that he would agree to a lynch when he thought we were all confirmed. Why would masons want to lynch one of the masonhood? They wouldn't, so it rang as very strange. There DEFINITELY wasn't any town motivation behind that post; the scum motivation was "Let me agree to this lynch and hopefully these guys will accept me", with no notification that he thought we were all confirmed. No questioning of "Hey, if we're confirmed, then why do you guys want to lynch me?"

It was just strange. So I found it suspect.

Who has said Kondi was being dumb? Your personal experience seems to indicate it was a reasonable mistake from someone fairly new to the site to make. No-ones accused you of being a VI.

Well, it's explicitly stated in my PM, at least, that the alignments aren't confirmed. In Soraville, it wasn't. So, I think it's a dumb mistake to make. It's still a dumb mistake, even for me in my first game, because I didn't do the research, but I digress.

If you’ve been ‘iffy’ on Hydra as scum (which the use of the word still implies) why didn’t you ISO him before hopping on his wagon?

I'm iffy on his towniness. His RVS votes have a kind of dissonance to them. Voting kondi, but suspecting Almaster and yosarian (the latter with no reasoning whatsoever) kind of rang as awful to me. He's done nothing but defend himself and do things that lack town motivation; he doesn't scumhunt. He's stubborn with requests. He just got off to a bad start and hasn't done anything to improve.

[DemonHybrid]

I don't know. I do know that there's very weird motivation that he would agree to a lynch when he thought we were all confirmed. Why would masons want to lynch one of the masonhood? They wouldn't, so it rang as very strange. There DEFINITELY wasn't any town motivation behind that post; the scum motivation was "Let me agree to this lynch and hopefully these guys will accept me", with no notification that he thought we were all confirmed. No questioning of "Hey, if we're confirmed, then why do you guys want to lynch me?"

It was just strange. So I found it suspect.

Let me delve a little deeper into this.

Imagine you're a town neighbor. You walk into the QT. You say "I'm going to lynch you, Neighbor #2" and he responds with "Hey, you guys are cool! By the way, it's cool if you lynch me, just do it later so I can confirm you."

Your initial thoughts:

1. "Confirm me as what?"
2. "Does he think he's a mason? If so, why is he okay with his lynch, and why doesn't he suspect us?"
3. "Confirm me as a neighbor? He's scum trying to fit in (and he knows what Neighbors are)."

2 didn't make that much sense. So, I went with 3. I didn't even think of 1; I thought he was talking about confirming us as neighbors, which didn't make much sense.

Preview edit: I did, Amrun. I just think it's cool.

[DemonHybrid]

Well, it's explicitly stated in my PM, at least, that the alignments aren't confirmed.

a herpaderp

[DemonHybrid]

In Soraville, it wasn't. So, I think it's a dumb mistake to make.

a herpaderpa doo.

[DemonHybrid]

How else would he confirm you then? Confirming you guys as neighbors does nothing for the town.

This was talked about above. The neighbors are explicitly stated as being non-alignment confirmed in the PM.

Uncertain how this works but I've been skimming. Explain please?

This was talked about above in response to MoI.

[DemonHybrid]

I have some people to answer.

That'll have to wait until after I get back from New York City later tonight.

[DemonHybrid]

Of course. What a surprise.

[DemonHybrid]

V/LA from now until Monday, June 27th.

[DemonHybrid]

I'm back. I'm going to read up and post responses and general thoughts in a few hours.

[DemonHybrid]

Oh, jeez. I completely forgot about this game.

Looking things over and I'll give thoughts. I work in 3 hours, but it should be enough to mull things over. I hope a general read of everyone will be good enough.

[DemonHybrid]

@Earworm

: Do you think I am town because you find Parama scummy? That's the neighbor PoE that I don't like. Not sure I'm liking the AGM switch, either, especially if he turns out town.

Snow White is a null to me, and she should be a null to everyone else too. Her last two posts ON SITE were here DoRC posts, so I'm doing a search for those that called her an active lurker or a scummy lurker and calling them out on that.

Iecerint reads as town to me. I'm not sure I get why he's voting me (because he likes the people on my wagon?), and he doesn't make good points against Hrezs. In fact, I don't really know why he finds him scummy, but I think scum-Iecerint would have put some more effort into making his reads worth something.

saporovirus is pretty obviously scumhunting, especially trying to figure out the neighbor situation. She makes a valid, but wrong, point about distracting the conversation away from having scum neighbors. Parama and I just both thought he was talking about "Lynch me later on in the game", therefore we assumed that he thought he was a neighbor. We also simply just thought that he wanted to confirm us as neighbors. That's all there is to it. Both Parama and I caught the townslip at the same time. And we didn't ask him for clarification because it was RVS, our role PM says we're unconfirmed, and he just didn't hint to him thinking he's a mason at all. Anyway, a town read on saporo.

Parama and kondi are town for reasons I already stated.

Almaster is a scummier read to me. I know he can post more. I know he has a more intense style of scumhunting. He relies on PoE for his one-neighbor-must-be-scum logic. I don't like that at all.

Hresz is scummy. That's an opportunistic vote if I've ever seen one. It states no new information. Also, he cleverly decided to not mention my Meransiel suspicion to make himself look better. His SensFan suspicion seems hollow, too.

More to come in a bit.

[DemonHybrid]

PBuG seems to have a more spontaneous style of scumhunting. He doesn't PoE the neighbors, instead, listing valid suspicion. I'm not sure why he settled on a vote for me, but I have him as a town read, so I'm not really going to look into it.

Before I go further, let me explain the Meransiel-flipping-scum-would-clear-the-neighborhood deal. If Meransiel were to turn up scum, I find that his questioning of both me and Parama of what we though of each other is a blatant way to set up suspicion between the neighbors in the neighborhood. Very, very, very obvious. That's his ISO post #12. There's a lot of scum motivation behind asking us such a cookie-cutter question and try to stir shit up, both between the neighbors and between the neighborhood and everyone else in the game.

If people believe that I'm scum, then would Meransiel be town to you, then?

I'd like to get your thoughts on that.

Speaking of Meransiel,

@Meransiel: Do you support Hresz's vote? Or do you just believe that it makes sense?

MrBuddyLee:

1. When we say "prior" to the game, we meant that we agreed to vote him when the game officially started. We had pre-game neighborhood talk.
2. Hydra was originally my top scumread for early game play, but I think he's gotten leaps and bounds better since last week. I'll explain later on.
3. Yosarian thoughts coming up.

You're a genuine scumhunter in this game, so I like you as a town read.

[DemonHybrid]

@petroleumjelly:

Same question I asked earworm. Is your Parama suspicion based on PoE of the neighborhood?

I have a null on petroleumjelly. Not sure if I like the tunneling on Parama. Great points against early-game Meransiel.

Yosarian does a SHITLOAD of tunneling on Almaster, but I think that it's genuine tunneling and he makes great points, unlike some of the other people who have hopped onto AGM's wagon. He's a town read for me, and probably one of the only genuine (if not at least CAREFUL as opposed to careless) votes on the wagon. His last comment against SensFan reads as genuine as well, despite the dissonance with the tunneling. Great responses to MoI as well.

Shanba: Opportunistic vote on AGM. Not much else. Really, Shanba, you have NOTHING to say on the neighborhood?

SensFan: Why does your vote HAVE to be between AGM and me?

Hydra: Has started out with really terrible early game play. Ended up commented on nearly everyone AND everything. His Meransiel points are really spot on, his comment about his conflict between the me and AGM wagons seems genuine and everything seems really put together. There was clear thought put behind what he has been saying, so he's a town read to me now.

Magna is in the same boat as Hydra too. He's starting to be a little tunneling on me, but I understand why. I will vehemently disagree that there was deception going on with understanding use of the word "confirm" in the neighbor QT. It simply just did not cross Parama or my mind and thought that he meant "confirm us as neighbors", which would be something that someone newer would say. There was too much evidence against kondi believing he was confirmed, and too much for believing he wasn't.

[DemonHybrid]

Your scum list from me is looking like this, town to scum:

kondi
Parama
Hydra
MoI
saporo
MrBuddyLee
Yosarian
PBuG
Iecerint

Snow White
petroleum
earworm
Shanba
SensFan

Meransiel
AlmasterGM
Hresz

Unvote, Vote: Hresz

Almaster is scummy, but there's too much opportunism on that wagon for me to be comfortable with it. This is a better lynch.

[DemonHybrid]

Such a brilliant move to vote your top suspect who has 0 votes instead of your second suspect with 6 votes, when a deadline is approaching.

The deadline's in a week, and I'm not voting someone who has so many opportunistic votes on his wagon.

[DemonHybrid]

1. Please provide me multiple links that show AGM’s Day 1 play as Town that highlight his “more intense” style of scumhunting.
2. Attacking AGM on activity? I need a Pot and Kettle pic here.
3. Please explain how using PoE is inherently scummy.

1. Have you ever seen him post in another game? See him in his Final Destination hydra? I'll let you do the research. I don't mind looking for it, but I want you to think about it.
2. Posting more =/= commenting on activity. I'm talking about the amount of content, not his posting frequency.
3. Have we not talked about how much of a boneheaded move it is to use PoE on something like a neighborhood? It's outguessing the mod and it's not scumhunting; it's taking the easy route and either having it pay off or having it blow up in your face, causing a loss.

This isn’t really an explanation at all, IMO.

Cool story. I think it's pretty valid.

If this is true then his explanation (which is feasible but isn’t anything you wouldn’t expect to see scum who was backpeddeling say) shouldn't immediately clear him as Town in your eyes. But that's the stance you have taken.

Furthermore explain what “too much evidence” entails because from what has been said in thread so far that ‘mountain’ of evidence was a single QT post.

He said anything BUT that he thought that we were all confirmed. So we assumed that he thought he wasn't. Not sure why this is a hard concept to understand. Now that he explicitly stated that he thought he was confirmed, there's no grey area and there's no reason to think that he thought anything BUT being a mason, to which we switched our votes at.

Also, you of all people know that a ton of evidence can come from a single post.

Time for more relational statements – if AGM flips before DH and is Town this is absolutely an attempt by scum to stay of a Townie wagon so that he isn’t labeled as ‘opportunistic’ for jumping on the only viable wagon to his this close to deadline.

A conditional?

And I was reading you as town. You've fallen down to null.

[DemonHybrid]

Let me explain Meransiel's statement on the neighborhood a bit clearer.

Meran gets lynched and he flips scum. There is absolutely no doubt that what he asked of Parama and I was an attempt to stir up doubt about how we view each other, and an attempt to pit the rest of the town against the neighborhood.

You JUST said that "if AGM flips town, then DH is scum for wanting to stay off the wagon and not wanting to be labeled opportunistic" which is a wild twist of my argument. I said I didn't feel comfortable being on his wagon because the votes were opportunistic and have minimal explanation, NOT that I was worried about looking opportunistic. How can you prove the former? Because I can clearly prove scum-Meransiel's plan to crash the neighborhood. How about you?

[DemonHybrid]

The only way I'm getting back into this game is if I don't have to type a wall. So there will be no line-by-line on the last five pages.

The wagon on me is 1) activity and 2) neighborgate. They are both dumb. The neighbor issue is a complete matter of opinion, and to top it off, my opinion is more statistically likely to find scum. Moreover, people are now calling DH scum, which ironically supports my theory. So unless you think all the people are wrong about DH, you're implicitly saying that I am right. Activity is a whole different ball game. It's a legit call, but it's still bad because there's people with waaaaaaaaay crappier activity than me. And inb4 people say "why are you going after me and not them is a scum defense" - Activity isn't qualitative, it's quantitative - if you're gonna vote out the lurker, you vote out the person who is obviously LURKING MORE.

And you know who is lurking more?

Unvote, vote: Snow White

Snow White is lynchtastic. You can go all "pot call kettle" on me if you want - there's two posts. Not only is there only two posts, but the first one SUCKS. It's not even an opinion - it's a giant fence sit. Kill it with fire.

I'd also lynch Mesireal-whatever, but apparently that wagon went away, so.

Are you serious? Snow White has posted twice in the past few weeks. IN THIS THREAD.

[DemonHybrid]

Last post: June 23rd.
2nd to last post: June 21st.
3rd to last post: June 14th, in the DoRC sign up thread.
4th to last post: APRIL 27TH.

So, saying that her lurking is anything but null is an absolutely horrible stance to take.

[DemonHybrid]

Unvote, Vote: AGM

The last few posts have been so undeniably scummy, despite the earlier votes on his wagon.

[DemonHybrid]

No, AGM. You aren't listening.

Snow White has not even posted around the site except for the two posts in this thread. She is not willfully lurking.

My case on you has nothing to do with the amount of your posts, but the content IN them.

You're talking a lot, but you're not saying anything. When I have nothing to say, my lips are sealed. Say something once, why say it again? Psycho killer, qu'est-ce que c'est?

[DemonHybrid]

Thereis absolutely no doubt about a wifomtastic perspective? Lol.

Wow! You're right, I said absolutely nothing about how that would only be true if you flip scum, therefore making your motivations very clear! You have an awesome, logical argument, good sir!

[DemonHybrid]

Alright. This is how the QT went, up until now.

Me: Parama. What's up?
Parama: kondi sucks. Otherwise, this is an awesome neighborhood.
Parama: Hell, I'm tempted to vote kondi D1 to increase the quality of the neighborhood. lets do it.
Parama: Oh, I just realized that the name of the QT is the DoRC neighborhood. Like dork, lol
Me: Sure, I'm in for that. What do you think, kondi?
Kondi: Best neighbors ever. Lynch me in the future, but not D1. I can confirm one of you guys when we need it.
Parama: He wants to be lynched! Lets do it.
Me: Alright.
Parama: DH, put up the song contest entries already.
Me: Deadline needs to hit first.
Me: Anyway, kondi, we're going to lynch you. Thoughts?
Me: Actually, Parama, do you want to out the neighbor team? We can assume one scum of 3 in the neighborhood I think. If so, mafia already knows who the neighbors are, so the PRs aren't at risk.
Parama: Sure, whatever
Parama: Actually, let me do it.
Me: Go ahead.
*12 hours later*
Kondi: Wow, I JUST realized that we werent confirmed to each other. I haven't been in a group that wasn't a scum group before, sorry. Stop policy lynching me.
Kondi: And where did I townslip?
Me: I think this is a 3 town neighborhood. Parama, your motivations mirrored mine for your eagerness to out the neighborhood. This also fits RC's mod meta. Screw that guy.
Parama: You suggested to out the neighborhood. That's a bad idea for scum, so I have you as town as well. I have a gut scum read on MoI but I don't know what it is. Can't narrow it down to one thing. I need to read his posts again.
*hours later*
Me: You guys should vote for Meransiel.
Parama: MoI needs to die, so I wont vote for Meransiel.



There hasn't been any posts past this point.

[DemonHybrid]

Last post was 6-24 at 4:30, EST.

[DemonHybrid]

I think that's pretty close of a paraphrase. If Parama or kondi feel that I changed the meaning behind their words at all, they can clarify, otherwise, there you go, PJ.

[DemonHybrid]

@Mod: I should have a prod next to my name, for future recordkeeping.

Honesty is a virtue.

[DemonHybrid]

No – if you are going to use Meta as the basis for your ‘suspicion’ you had best be willing to back it up with support.

The fact that you try to shuff it off says to me you don’t have strong meta evidence and your original statement was made to pad your statement.

He was town here

Town here

Doctor here. Note the slightly softer tone.

Then just read this game. You cannot say that he's been scumhunting his ass off. He hasn't been.

So you are saying that the amount of content AGM was providing was scummy? Please explain in detail how his content is more scummy than others.

I notice in your catch-up that you devote only a single question to SensFan and don’t make any comment on his alignment. Interesting.

Short but non-intense answers. Questions that don't really play a part in scumhunting (a lot of them have been defensive). Just RELYING on PoE. Compare this game with the 3 (and more, I'm sure I can find. Go wiki him) that he was town in and get back to me with YOUR thoughts.

Also, I was waiting for SensFan to answer that question. I don't like the fact that he said it in the first place. Also, I included him in my alignment chart, but it's okay, you can ignore that.

You’ve blown a bunch of smoke regarding how it isn’t a good idea. What you haven’t done is actually showing ANYONE voting for a Neighorhood member solely on that premise. You have been voted for your scummy play.

I understand why I'm being voted. I'm pointing out the fact that people are INSISTING of at least one scum in a 3 man neighborhood, even if they aren't voting. They don't have to vote for that to look bad. You, of all people, should know that.

Really? You are going to say him posting “You can lynch me later so it confirms you” doesn’t directly infer that all the Neighbors were alignment confirmed in his mind?

The bolded is something I want to check back to Gorrad’s Large Theme on – my gut is telling me I saw that sort of line out of scum-you there also.

Note that I keep saying that, in the same post, he said "Best

neighbors

ever". So, no, what he said last just seemed like town-cred gaining nonsense to both Parama and I.

Lulz. I’ve fallen to Null for using a ‘conditional’. Good work trying to be dismissive as opposed to pointing out how the conditional isn’t possibly valid.

I really like my vote right now.

It's not valid, because your conditional is "If this person flips town, then this will happen". Almaster, if town, would either be right or wrong. If someone flips scum, you can infer "This happened" because there's no other motivation or mistake that that's what they wanted to have happen. Your logic is completely flawed and you're lining up lynches

yep

you are

lining up lynches

.

Oh, you can PROVE something like that, can you?

It proves itself, by basic logic standards. You know, someone flips scum. You can easily tell that they had...uhhhhh...yanno...SCUM MOTIVATION

Finally – in regards to 468 – I’d love to see what logical scum motivation you can provide for why scum would in their first QT post in a Neighborhood ask to be lynched. I’m all ears because based on this summary that must be what you were going on.

RVS town-cred gaining. I thought Parama and I didn't even have to explain that at all, but I guess we have to go back to the basics of mafia, huh

I’d also love to see how your opinion on the Neigbhorhood changed from 1 scum in the neighborhood to "Hey, no possible scum here".

It's like you completely ignored the town-slip. Oh right; there's something wrong with you, because you DON'T see it as a town slip despite it being really really really reallllly obvious.

Kondi looked scummy before game start because he looked like he was trying to gain town cred by saying it was okay to lynch im, and noted that it was a neighborhood (both indicators that he didn't think he was confirmed town to us). Game started, we wagoned him. He said he thought we were all confirmed town. We unvoted.

It's

reallllllllly

easy to understand this. You just have to think.

[DemonHybrid]

^ All to MoI. I thought I had put his name in the first quote.

[DemonHybrid]

Unvote, Vote: AGM

Yet, you're still voting AGM.

SensFan is scum.

[DemonHybrid]

It's funny how he didn't even think about what motivation Parama would have had to post like that.

[DemonHybrid]

So, why don't we do this? Since MrBuddyLee is 100% and undeniably right, we'll lynch AGM.

Because SensFan doesn't care enough about who he's lynching and calling scum, we can lynch him next. There are no conditionals, like MoI insists of using. We'll lynch two extremely scummy people.

[DemonHybrid]

For the purposes of keeping this post from branching in too many directions, I'll stick to discussing the two major wagons at this point, since I'm going to be deciding between one of them to place my vote on.

I assume that you're talking about this, which is still a weird stance to stand behind. But whatever; I still don't like your reaction to Parama's statements.

[DemonHybrid]

Your ‘alignment chart’? I’ll have to go review that. Because in the massive walls of “Hey most of these people are Town or Null” I don’t recall seeing more than that line about Sensfan.

Post #430.

Um you do realize that statistically the odds fall strongly there is going to be scum of some sort there.

You yourself know this since you stated that in your QT round-up. So I think you’re being entirely inconsistent in your stance.

And I'd like you to demonstrate where anyone is INSISTING. Because the pointless capitalization indicates a strong push to only lynch from the three of you. Yet that has not happened.

Underlined is what I have a problem with. Prove it.

And reads changed; by your logic, you always need to keep your reads completely static. It's kind of dumbfounding me.

Just because someone insists that there is scum in the neighborhood (like you) doesn't mean they'll vote it. They don't have the evidence. The fact that they're even mentioning it is weird.

Oh, so his best way to gain Town cred was to respond to the two of you in a private QT when you had already stated you were going to policy lynch him? Ok ... if you think that’s logical scum play I’m not going to bother you about it further.

He's new and already had two people saying that they were going to lynch him. We viewed it as crumbling under pressure. Again, you don't seem to understand this. It doesn't matter if it's against two people or the whole town. To us, it looked like he was buying town cred.

Nope, but keep throwing some nice buzzwords around if it makes you feel better.

no content; assuming I'm right on this

Pro-Tip – Mafia is about all sorts of things including relational tells.

Relational tells, yes. Lining up lynches, like you're doing; no.

Yet your conclusion that Meran being scum 100% clears the Neigbhorhood doesn’t hold from his flipping scum. You assert he’s trying to cause trouble but your conclusion that it absolutely clears you is a complete reach.

I'm asserting that his play is scummy, and that if he were to flip scum, it would clear the neighborhood due to his intentions.

So, lets review

1. His play is scummy
2.

IF

he were to flip scum, it would clear the neighborhood as per his questioning of both Parama and I

RVS Town cred gaining. That only two other players can see. Right.

covered this

But if you believed, as stated, that most likely there is 1 scum in the Neighborhood (on general assumption purposes) the fact that you clear Kondi should mean if you were intellectually honest you would give Parama a closer look.

But no. Kondi ‘Townslipped’ and suddenly there is no chance that any scum are in the Neighborhood. That’s not a Town approach when you have no reason to know for certain that Parama is Town.

And if you are trying to say Parama's play in thread is obv-Town then I have a bridge in Brookyln you'd be very interested in.

Kondi had a scummy first post. I found it scummy. So I thought he was scum. So I assumed scum in the neighborhood. So I asked whether we should out it. So we did. Then Kondi townslipped. I then saw a 3 man town neighborhood, because kondi was town and I saw town motivation behind Parama's play. Honestly.

DH you are so cute when you try to act intellectually superior and dismissive.

What, no flowers?

Preview edit: And I retract my read. I still think it's a flimsy thing to stand behind and I don't trust it. I don't like your reaction to Parama. Just because you were vague about who you were going to vote for doesn't mean that I'm going to retract every little thing about you that's scummy.

[DemonHybrid]

DH, please show me where MoI is lining up lynches because I just don't see it.

"If AGM is town, then DH is scum"? That's pretty much what he said.

[DemonHybrid]

Read through Page 18

DH's AGM vote is incredibly scummy to me. Earlier he basically gives a halfass excuse to not vote him, then jumps on him at the first possible chance. The fact that he gives any excuse for voting his #1 I find scummy.

You didn't even comment on the fact that a ton of other people found what he posted scummy, but okay

[DemonHybrid]

Cults cant be in Normal games.

Now that we know that this is a lie, what do we make of the motivation?

[DemonHybrid]

Cults cant be in Normal games.

Now that we know that this is a lie, what do we make of the motivation?

its a joke, TROLOLOLOL

Jokes really don't translate well in internet forum mafia.

[DemonHybrid]

My line of thought while I was reading it is "is he actually retarded enough to claim that? I can't tell."

526 reeks of an last ditch attempt to sound genuine so people unvote, I'm not convinced.

Vote: AGM

My feelings would be hurt, but you're scum, so they're not.

Explain this read.

[DemonHybrid]

I was hoping that this could wait until Demon had posted, but with the vig kill already known...

Claim: Psychiatrist

.

I didn't target anyone N1 because I asked the mod about what would happen if I targeted the SK, and the mod said they'd become a VT--and I wanted the SK to act like a true vig, for at least one night. Since we apparently have a vig AND an SK, now I can safely cure the SK.

Demon, you're the SK, right?

Could you be a good lil' SK and lynch Parama? You KNOW he's scum, right?

Vote: mastin2

[DemonHybrid]

I'm a real stickler with normal setups.

[DemonHybrid]

At the time of that question, Iecerint.

Now, Parama or Demonhybrid.

And I will ask again, for the sake of it:

@everyone in the neighborhood: Do. You. Have. Any. Powers?

If you are doctor or powerless, please claim powerless. If you are not doctor nor powerless, please claim your power. And your target. And I will track you to see if you are telling the truth. Is it. That. Hard. To. Understand?

You're just a role-outing machine, aren't you?

[DemonHybrid]

Alien's in the wiki. He roleblocks and rolestops the target.

Like a jailkeeper, but instead of protecting, he reverse-roleblocks anything but kills.

[DemonHybrid]

...a gambit to have me claim SK?

What are you, mad?

Unvote

Meransiel, I'm a town neighbor with no other powers. There. Now stop being absolutely batshit crazy. All of you.

[DemonHybrid]

unvote

vote: parama

Reasoning?

[DemonHybrid]

THIS GAME.

UNVOTE: MASTIN2

. What a ridiculously ill-conceived "gambit." No SK in their right mind would fall for that, especially since in the same breath you suggested DemonHybrid was a SK, you claimed to not have any information whatsoever.

I'm deciding on a mastin vote after Amrun does her next votecount. If she modconfirms mastin as town, I will not vote him. If she votecounts without modconfirming him as town, I will vote immediately.

Preview edit:

Well then.

saporo, reasoning for the Parama vote, if you would.

Petroleum climbs a bit on my scum o meter for that last post, but there isn't enough scum motivation behind it for it to be completely damning, so I'll review him.

[DemonHybrid]

unvote

vote: parama

Reasoning?

1. I am still not liking how you both jumped on the Hydra wagon after kondi "townslipped," but your play towards the end of D1 struck me as somewhat less scummy. I have to go back and re-read it to figure out why I thought so.

2. Parama's general "fuck off with your questions" attitude has been a bit strange. He could just be pissed off with the game but it's been going on for a while.

3. One of you 3 is scum and it's not kondi and it's probably not you.

1. Please do. The more information about this, the better.

2. How is there more scum motivation behind this, and less town motivation?

3. Oh, hell naw. Did you just pepper spray us with PoE? -_-

[DemonHybrid]

So....you just lined up 9 lynches and vig kills?

[DemonHybrid]

If you think about it, PJ has only one more name on that list than I do--Hydra.

My list consisted of five neutrals, two scum, and one SK. Which comes out to eight names.

PJ's list is exactly the same, only including Hydra in it as well.

Not only are you confirmed town, you also didn't explicitly state "We need to kill these 9 people in a row with lynches and vigs".

[DemonHybrid]

Uh. Do you any

problems

with the players my list, DemonHybrid? Essentially, I excluded myself (town), mastin2 (confirmed town), Iecerint (very likely Vigilante), Meransiel (very likely town Tracker), and kondi2424 (likely Town neighbor).

That leaves nine players. You're damned skippy I want them all dead. If I had a button to kill the lot of you right now, I would press it, because unless I am sorely mistaken that would probably result in a Town win right now.

Please, please go into detail about what you find wrong with my post.

The fact that you don't even

1. Keep your options open to a fakeclaim, however small the chances may be. I'm not saying believe a fakeclaim, but keep your options open. This obviously discludes mastin.
2. Try to separate the town from the scum instead of saying "nuke everyone that isn't a claimed power role....oh, and me."

You dodged the fact that I called this lining up kills/lynches. What do you have to say about that? I don't care if Iece is claimed vig, Meran is claimed Tracker, kondi is a Neighbor. You need to have reads and you're dead set on "Welp, the game's over, lets just kill the fuck out of these people" without a care in the world as to whether someone put out a brilliant play...you know, or you're scum. Lets assume in the next 4 nights at max, mastin/Iece/Meran/kondi all die. That's cool; but we're still not in the clear because we haven't figured out who the scum is in the people who are left and they could very well take town for a ride by manipulating people like you. Or, of course, scum could INCLUDE you.

Basically, it's not the player list. It's the way you went about listing your intentions.

[DemonHybrid]

FoS: DemonHyrbid

, in fact. Looks to me like somebody is getting skittish by seeing himself, and potentially all of his partners, on a list.

Only skittish by your lack of care, man.

[DemonHybrid]

Hi, DemonHybrid.

1.)

I am not about to include myself in a list of possible scum. Especially when

my

explicitly says "here are the people

I

will be focusing on." And naturally, I would suggest everybody else focus on those same people.

2.)

I play realistically. Do I think Meransiel

could

be scum? Sure. As I explained earlier, I've played in this

exact

situation as a scum tracker before. But do I think it's currently the case? No. Meransiel is probably Town. A scum tracker, unless they had a death wish, probably wouldn't out themselves after they were just alerted to -- ding ding ding-- the presence of a

Serial Killer

who would almost certainly love to take out a tracker.

Similarly, a claimed Vigilante is in the same boat. Even if Iecerint is scum, so what? He claimed Vigilante. Now he

HAS

to play like one or get lynched.

Furthermore, I didn't go so far as to call kondi2424 Town. At best, I said it was "likely." So to say I am not "considering" whether there are fake-claims is just stupid. There are times to be paranoid, and times not to be paranoid.

Day Two is

not

the time to start being paranoid. That comes later in the game if somebody who seems to be Town is suddenly and persistently alive. So for now, yes: I am most assuredly going to focus my efforts on the nine players I just listed out.

3.)

Your "lining up lynches" argument is weak. I seem to recall the same accusations were made against AlmasterGM and MagnaofIllusion. Hey, guess what? They were both Town.

But even if they were scum, it wouldn't matter. Because here's what does matter:

I think every single scum is in that group of nine players. And so it only follows that I want as many people from that group as dead as possible.

1. I'm not saying you should. That's why my main point assumes you as town with a possibility with you being scum trying to put the pressure on those 9 people and not yourself/the power roles.

2. You're outguessing the set-up. You're asking "why would a scum tracker" out themselves knowing that there's an SK when you haven't even realized that Meran claimed tracker -anyway-. It would be bad play for him to out himself as early as he did for either alignment; I still think it's bad play that he did, and I don't think the why of his claiming has anything to do with his alignment.

So far, you expressed doubts, though small, that Meran, Iece and kondi are town and could be scum. Yet you'd still press that button and nuke the 9 of us. Think about what's wrong there.

By the way, that last sentence is the kind of thinking either town uses and loses with, or scum uses to manipulate town with. I don't like it either way. You should ALWAYS be paranoid and ALWAYS push suspicions, dig deep, ask questions and pressure people in order to gain information as the uninformed majority and unless the mod comes right out and SAYS that the person is town (a.k.a, Amrun and mastin), you should always keep them in the back of your mind. Just in case it gets to a LyLo and they're one of the people still standing.

3. So, you're going to completely disregard a scummy tell just because two people who exhibited it were town?



Listen, petroleum, I don't care that you have a scumlist out of 9 people. I don't care that you have 9 scum reads. I don't care if you suspect everyone but yourself. But you can't just say "nuke these people, and fuck the rest because they claimed roles and you know, it makes sense" on Day 2.

[DemonHybrid]

Furthermore, you should ask yourself what motivation I would have to go out on a limb and refute what you said about killing 9 people in a row without regarding the other unconfirmeds if I was in fact scum in that list of 9 people instead of letting the argument go and coasting on by. Food for thought.

[DemonHybrid]

Your "lining up lynches" argument is weak. I seem to recall the same accusations were made against AlmasterGM and MagnaofIllusion. Hey, guess what? They were both Town.

I never fully outright suspected you as scum, for the record. I'm pretty sure that I keep noting that it's bad town play OR scummy play in combination with your other posts (in light of your other posts, which I have yet to look through, but will).

[DemonHybrid]

Hey, you know what would be a good idea right now? Why don't you make a post in your Neighborhood QT asking Parama and kondi2424 to back you up? Because I doubt anybody else is going to.

I don't understand your defensiveness.

[DemonHybrid]

Surely.

Parama, 7-3-2011: Ugh, I need to read the game. @Mod: If I posted here with catchup stuff, would it be against the rules to post them in the thread?
Parama: Fuck it. Doing an abridged version. I have the song contest to keep me occupied while I do it.
Amrun: Nah, it's okay.
Parama: way too lazy. Youtube isn't working, so I can't be occupied and I can't think straight and blah.
Parama: Now my reads are messed up. Fuck. I promise I'll read later on...eventually.

Last post was 7-6-2011.

I haven't had time to post in it. kondi has been silent.

[DemonHybrid]

Oop, just caught the "I didn't have time to post in it." Let me check your recent activity to corroborate.

Recently, I've been at work quite often. I work bussing and hosting at a restaurant and I go to a summer camp on the days off; I've had time to post 4 or 5 posts a day, during the night for the past week and a half/2 weeks. So you'll see that. I haven't even had my neighbor QT open.

[DemonHybrid]

DH I don't swear.

Hey peeps I actually started reading today and hopefully in a day or two I'll have this huge wall for you to not read.

Oh. Well, it's paraphrased pretty much right on. I just added in swears to change up the "ugghs" and whatnot, because I couldn't think of anything else.

[DemonHybrid]

So let’s see. The last several days you have posted from 5 to 12 posts every day. So at the very least, you’ve had time to check the site, and time to post every day.

Question

: If you were mafia, would you similarly “not have had time” to post in a

scum

QT? Would you have posted nothing at all?

See, what strikes me as odd (and not Town-Neighborlike) is that you could be on a Townsperson lynch (AlmasterGM), and that you would not express a single opinion about who could be scum in the Neighborhood QT afterwards. Did it not frustrate you in the least that AlmasterGM was Town? Did it not make you want to look at who was on his wagon? What if you died overnight – wouldn’t you want your best guess known by

somebody

?

Yeah, I've had time to check the site and post everyday, but not really open up my QT and get into conversations there. That's just how it is. I've had time to tie up loose ends and that's it.

If I was mafia, I would probably find the time to post in the QT. As the informed minority, it'd be a little more imperative than talking with people who are non-alignment confirmed.

Almaster's wagon is a confusing one to analyze because he was posting very scummily, so it blurs the line between obvscum being on his wagon and townies legitimately believing that he was contradicting himself; motivations are unclear. I'll go take a look, though, and get back to you with thoughts. mastin's early Day 2 play was a bit more imperative, but now that he's confirmed IC, that's no longer a problem.

[DemonHybrid]

V/LA 7/12 - 7/20. I will be posting during those dates; however, they will be on my phone, so there will be less posting. Sorry for the inconvenience.

[DemonHybrid]

Shanba, why didn't you say that earlier? It feels like you're last-minute white knighting him.

[DemonHybrid]

[DemonHybrid]

Sorry, hit submit.

Vote: Shanba

. Parama's lynch is terrible and it may or may not be scumdriven, but the fact that Shanba took all of Day 2 to call out Parama's motivations makes me cringe. It's obvious white knighting on an "inevitable" wagon and I don't trust it. He is a much better lynch.

Parama's last post is right and you guys are failing to bring out scum motivation behind his actions. I always thought and still think its a 3 town neighborhood.

Mastin, stop posting spam and start throwing your weight around. We NEED your confirmed town status and you're just wasting it.

[DemonHybrid]

Mastin, be quiet and start scumhunting outside of reciting annoying song lyrics.

[DemonHybrid]

I feel kinda guilty about having the most prods in the game.

hrezs/ctd is an acceptable lynch today.

Active lurking post.

[DemonHybrid]

Also, when shanba responds to people about his lurking, he deflects, not responds. Yosarian's defense doesn't make sense.

Back to my vacation. Mastin is doing better, by the way, so thanks.

[DemonHybrid]

?

You are doing better, so thank you for that = you are SCUMHUNTING better, so thank you for that.

Mastin, I don't want to call you dumb. I really don't, but you're making it rather hard.

[DemonHybrid]

Chalking a compliment up to an "SK slip".

[DemonHybrid]

I was talking about #849, actually.

[DemonHybrid]

Even so, complimenting his picking up on the scumhunting doesn't mean that I agree with his views.

Iecerint, why are you indecisive about shanba and yosarian?

[DemonHybrid]

Totally weak bussing.

You make a good point. Bowser, please explain your Yos2 suspicion.

[DemonHybrid]

CTD, your argument against me has a lot of flaws. Pointing them out in a moment.

Nothing's going on in the QT. I asked him about his Yos suspicion and he hasn't responded directly.

[DemonHybrid]

DemonHybrid is the third guy that made an impression on my scumdar so far. I agree with MoI's assessment of his conduct towards kondi. I also thought his reasoning for his stance on Panama was inconsistent. He went from:

DH in #112 wrote:
I'd be voting for Parama right now were it not for the fact that he was so willing to out the 3 of us.

to

DH in #118 wrote:
I don't know. I have no reason to vote Parama right now whatsoever. He hasn't been remotely scummy.

in a very short period of time. The two quotes don't add up in my opinion.

There's other things minor things about him that rubbed me the wrong way, but this analysis is already getting long and I still have a lot to read. He's not at the top of the list at this point, but one player I'll keep a close eye on as I read on.

I said I would be voting Parama, but instead I voted kondi early game. Parama looked townish off the bat since he was willing to out the 3 of us, kondi did not. I'm okay with early game neighbor pressure, as evidenced with Parama and I's pressure against kondi.

Lets recap:

Game starts. Kondi doesn't say a word, I would have voted Parama. Parama outs us; I vote Kondi, for being scummy in the QT as well as neighbor pressure.

Basically, I have never once found Parama as outwardly scummy. Bowser's impromptu suspicion of Yos is weird, though, so I'm keeping an eye on that.

DemonHybrid has been a double-edged sword for the second half of D1. On one hand, he had a pretty decent string of analysis posts, which sounded reasonable enough to me from a pro-town perspective. On the other hand, he then refused to join the AGM wagon because of perceived opportunism among his wagoners, only to then jump on himself in opportunistic fashion.

And AGM's scummy posting in between those two posts has nothing to do with anything?

At last, a read I still feel confident in. DemonHybrid is still scum. PJ was right on the money calling him skittish. After that, he had a dramatic drop in activity and now spends most of his energy quabbling with a confirmed innocent. His last post strikes me as very odd, considering he not so long ago unambiguously declared that playerslot town and Mastin's whole case against Parama bunk.

What do you mean by "my last post"? Point it out.

I was also V/LA. I check up on threads and saw mastin's annoying singing, so I reminded him to get his ass into gear and scumhunt. I also expressed my Shanba suspicion. That's really all I had the capacity to do, seeing as how I was in Columbus for a week running from hotel room to hotel room on a droid 2.

[DemonHybrid]

*Game starts. IF Kondi hadn't said a word...

[DemonHybrid]

I dont know exactly why my posts bled town in oldy mafia and not in this game. If I had to guess, though, it would probably be a combination of me being super open and explaining all my thought process in and being really passionate about a couple of issues in that game. Regardless of my alignment, people say I'm looking town when I'm doing these things.

This game I've not been super involved in. I made a few bait posts - the attacks on saporovirus - that no one picked up on. I wanted saporovirus or at least someone to question me about those votes, but I got nothing. Instead, this was her response:

Yeah kinda thought it was a bad gambit. I had visions of him claiming townie, though, and me desperately trying to convince people that he was just dumb and not scum and I'm so glad that at the very least he appears to be confirmable. Lets lynch saporo now plzkthx.

Don't do that!

I feel like a townie would have picked me up on that and pushed me, at least to know my reasons - particularly given my relative inactivity the day before. Instead it looks like she's assessing the threat potential and seeing it near zero, just needs to fob it off rather than risk getting into a debate with me. I think this response was scummy.

I pressured iecerint for a wishy washy stance on saporovirus. He took ages to respond and basically only did so when saporo asked him. I'm not too willing to follow this thread up tbh.

When yos and pj got into their big catfight thing I honestly couldn't be bothered to check everything out and minutely assess each individual point. However, I found it super strange that Yos was saying things like

So, before you got onto this weird attack on me, your main suspects were apparently 2 of the neighbors. (Parama was also your main suspect at the end of day 1).

And yet, even though they're your main suspects, you're so worried about protecting whatever hypothetical power roles the neighbors might have that you think it's bad to want them to claim, even when a *TRACKER* implies he wants them to claim?

Really having trouble buying this, PJ.

Mostly because he was saying these things without followup. He was passively reacting to PJ's case, defending the accusations against him, then adding some little bits and pieces that amount to a "Pj this attack is scummy!" That stunk of misdirection. If yos honestly thought this was scummy, why wasn't he going on the offensive? I called him on it, and he posted without responding. Then when I pressed the issue again, he backed off. That sits really awkwardly with me - particularly as the backing off occurred after pj stopped going after him. It's a natural reaction to being attacked to see the guy attacking you as scummy, but the way yos2 went about it - his statements looked more like

threats

than accusations - makes me really suspicious.

Shanba, why didn't you say that earlier? It feels like you're last-minute white knighting him.

MBL specifically asked me about Parama at that time. It's not totally out of the blue, either - I was against the original semi-wagon that appeared on parama after he voted MoI.

Parama really looks like he just lost interest in the game. I dont think that's scummy or townie either way. The whole "I'm catching up" thing may be classic active lurking, but it's

not

what scum do when already under pressure, as Parama was. When you think you're getting lynched, like in parama's situation, you try and defuse it by giving them words - even if the words are not considered or consistent or whatever. Promises to catch up dont placate mobs.

I have a vaguely townies read on PJ. My only recent experience with his play is modding frogs mafia 2 where he acted as something of a wrecking ball, going after one unfortunate townie after another. In particular, the way he attacked yosarian, reconsidered and then attacked him again reminds me of the long one-sided aim monologues he would send me about his thoughts on various players, which were frequently punctuated by sudden bouts of doubt. I dunno though. I think if he were scum, it would be way easier to just follow through the parama wagon to a lynch. I never liked the mastin wagon, but pj voting him was completely expected - when PJ spots someone doing something stupid, his first thought it

never

"is this a gambit". He caught Mastin in a lie and he voted him. Completely typical PJ. The exasperated response on Mastin revealing what was going on was also typical.

MBL: When I'm scum, I try to play as similarly to when I'm town as possible. In general, I think my mood has more of an impact on my

style

of play than my alignment does. There are specifics - I'm less likely to pay close attention to detail as scum, my opinions are more likely to have out and out falsehoods in them (born of laziness), I'm more likely to lurk as scum and I'm more likely to complain about the game as scum. Essentially, I like playing scum less and am therefore less likely to get involved with the game.

Oldies had that terribly obvious day 1 mislynch which allowed me to get my dander up. More people responded to my baiting posts and allowed me to explain the thought processes.

Unvote vote Yosarian2

Obvious bus

[DemonHybrid]

Shanba is scum. Also, notice how he doesn't have an opinion on Yos until a wagon starts on him. Then he just throws his vote on top of the rabble.

Bowser, you really need to pick your ass up and give us that explanation. The longer you stall, the longer I don't like you.

[DemonHybrid]

MBL: Nothing specifically changed my my mind about DH. I guess I'm mostly assuming at this point that parama is scum and that therefore DH is probably town. As for DH himself; eh,

he's borderline.

You really didn't answer his question...

[DemonHybrid]

CTD:

1. There's no "subtle inconsistency" when you're at the beginning of the game throwing votes around without suspicion to start the game. If it was Day 2? Then yeah, you'd have a point. But you don't.
2. Voting Snow White for lurking IS majorly scummy when she posted...what, twice at that point? There was a ton of other material to review and a ton of other things to consider, and AGM picks that. So, he pushed himself into "needing to die" territory with the SW vote. It really wasn't opportunistic at the least and I don't see how you can't see what's wrong about the SW vote.
3. Um, there's a LOT of scum motivation to saying "Yos looks scummy. Explanation later", especially since he's been posting around New York and not this game. How is asking for an explanation for that read scummy? What if Bowser is scum and it's a contrived way to throw on an early bus vote? Can you see how that can be possible?

The QT has been stagnant, but Bowser KNOWS I asked him to explain his read (I asked Toast directly, and he asked me to refer to him as Bowser without answering the question).

Shanba needs to die. Yos is getting close, and Bowser is climbing up since his Yos suspicion post which he STILL has yet to explain. Doesn't take that much time. Those are my scumreads. Perhaps I was fooled by Parama earlier.

[DemonHybrid]

Oh wait, I'm dumb. ToastyToast isn't part of the Bowser hydra, he's kondi's replacement. In that case, Bowser has yet to read the QT.

[DemonHybrid]

Prod dodge.

The more I look at this game, the more I want to barf.

The longer you don't answer my question, the more I want you to hang.

[DemonHybrid]

In fact, I'll give it one more post. Next post of yours, Bowser, I want your reason for a Yos2 suspicion.

[DemonHybrid]

Waiting on Bowser's next post. If it doesn't have a reason for a Yos2 suspicion, my next post will be a vote on him.
If it's not a pro-town reason, my next post will be a vote on him.
If there's any complaining INSTEAD of reasoning (and not necessarily with reasoning), my next post will be a vote on him.
If it's not by 12 AM on 7/25, my next post will be a vote on him.

Shanba, Yos (due to Shanba's post) and Bowser are on my scumlist.

[DemonHybrid]

Actually, deadline IS tomorrow, isn't it?

I'm giving it until I wake up then (9:00 AM EST).

[DemonHybrid]

Unvote, Vote: Bowser

.

[DemonHybrid]

I'm still lost as to why you think my attitude matches an SK's attitude, mastin.

Vote: Shanba

. He and Yosarian should fucking die. Simple as that.

[DemonHybrid]

I don't think Parama is scum. I don't agree with his attack on MoI, but I'm unconvinced it's scummy.

Unvote Vote: SensFan

Just for the record, I never actually said I had a town read on Parama, MBL. I do though, so I can answer your question.

Parama made the whole "KONDI TOWNSLIPPED" post which to me a pretty big towntell in and of itself. His attack on MoI was meeeeh, but whatever. I would like if he would pursue leads instead of "just throwing that out there" but again whatever.

I dont want to comment on the mastin thing before he posts, but I don't think he is scum (in fact I'm fairly sure he's town at this point.)

Vote saporovirus

uh huh

TBH, mbl, Parama's behaviour today doesn't strike me as particularly indicative of his alignment at all. Yesterday he was reasonably active and did some amount of scumhunting (if mediocre scumhunting). Today? Well, he fell behind, and then spent the whole time defending himself. I mean, I have to reread to be sure, but I'm pretty sure the accusations came before the scumhunting stopped, and it's not uncommon at all for a player under a lot of pressure who's also behind to drop dramatically in scumhunting. It's like, you only have so much time and effort you can spend on a game.

I dont want to argue this too hard, because I'm not really that sure he's town, but I don't think the case against him is very strong.

Yos: Do you think PJ is scum?

Mastin - your posting is obnoxious.

Everyone - thoughts on saporovirus please

mmk

MBL specifically asked me about Parama at that time. It's not totally out of the blue, either - I was against the original semi-wagon that appeared on parama after he voted MoI.

Parama really looks like he just lost interest in the game. I dont think that's scummy or townie either way. The whole "I'm catching up" thing may be classic active lurking, but it's not what scum do when already under pressure, as Parama was. When you think you're getting lynched, like in parama's situation, you try and defuse it by giving them words - even if the words are not considered or consistent or whatever. Promises to catch up dont placate mobs.

I have a vaguely townies read on PJ. My only recent experience with his play is modding frogs mafia 2 where he acted as something of a wrecking ball, going after one unfortunate townie after another. In particular, the way he attacked yosarian, reconsidered and then attacked him again reminds me of the long one-sided aim monologues he would send me about his thoughts on various players, which were frequently punctuated by sudden bouts of doubt. I dunno though. I think if he were scum, it would be way easier to just follow through the parama wagon to a lynch. I never liked the mastin wagon, but pj voting him was completely expected - when PJ spots someone doing something stupid, his first thought it never "is this a gambit". He caught Mastin in a lie and he voted him. Completely typical PJ. The exasperated response on Mastin revealing what was going on was also typical.

sure, ok

Unvote vote Yosarian2

oh wait what

On page 27 right now. I don't like Yos2's play thus far.

More tonight.

what.

huh

[DemonHybrid]

^ For those of you not really on top of things, this is bowser completely blowing shit open and telling us that his buddy is yosarian

and this is shanba connecting himself to bowser

About Shanba?

Shanba does need to post more, but a number of his posts look pro-town to me.

Quick summery of shanba's posting:

ISO Post 0: opposes the hydra wagon. Apparent pro-town motives for this. Votes Sensfan as part of this, but drops the vote soon after.

Post 1: Opposes the "let's outguess the mod and assume one of the neighbors is scum" theory. Vote meransiel for a combination of this and rolefishing. At this point in the game, this post makes a lot of sense to me as coming from a town perspective; I was thinking pretty much the same thing.

Post 2: Continues the same train of thought

Post 7, I like a lot, since Shanba basically calls himself out for lurking, and asks why he's not being attacked:

Shanba wrote:
MagnaofIllusion wrote:
Shanba wrote:
Your list of lurkers bemuses me. What metric are you using to judge a lurker?


The title is lurkers / underperformers. My metric is my personal judgement of those who aren't contributing to the game in a meaningful way.

Do you have a problem with that?

No, not necessarily, but this is mafia, and inconsistencies bother me. Why are MBL and hrezs in particular on the list when me and PBuG are not?


Shanba later basically defends PJ against me, and questions me about my PJ read, which is fair, and not what I would expect Shanba to do hereif he was scum. He's also still defending the neighbors as likely both town, which is interesting.

For the most part, Shanba needs to post more, but his play in general seems pretty townieish to me. I will say that if parama flips scum, I'll probably have to take a second look at Shanba for defending him, but...meh, even in that case, I'm not really seeing Shanba as scum here.

and this is Yosarian blatant protecting the guy he isn't bussing

"Normally, I don't get down with dudes
But tonight is a special exception (Great)
See you're my best friend
Through thick and thin
Now it's time to make a triple connection

The area's grey in a one, two,

three-way

"

[DemonHybrid]

TOO LONG DIDNT READ: Just fucking lynch Shanba.

[DemonHybrid]

oh my god, is there any way I can make myself clearer or do I have to kick my way through your monitor, grab you by the shoulders and scream at you in a tired and nauseating psychosis

[DemonHybrid]

maybe

mayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyybe kj is scum

BUT SHANBA AND YOSARIAN ARE SO OBVIOUSFJOPSFJP

I'm rarely listened to, but JUST THIS ONCE

I was screaming at toast in the QT last night to pass on my "FUCKING KILL DIE KILL KILL MURDER KILL SHANBA AND YOSARIAN" message if I had died, you should see it

[DemonHybrid]

jweiojtiosagkopsd

We'll see what everyone else has to say when they check in.

pretty please switch to shanba or yosarian if a wagon starts

with a cherry on top

and ice cream in the middle

and sprinkles all around

and hot fudge on the side

Preview Edit: hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

[DemonHybrid]

Because I'm not scum.. I'd defend myself but you haven't really given me any arguments outside your process of elimination which I find flawed.

I don't believe in your 1-1-1 theory, DH hasn't given me the vibes of an SK and I certainly don't think Amrun would put two mafia in the neighborhood. Can you elaborate on where DH seems like a SK? I can definitely agree with a Shanba lynch. The scum connection is blatantly obvious.

VOTE: Shanba

1. A save face vote, either on scum/town
2. A bus
3. A legitimate suspicion, on either scum/town

Which one's the new car and which one's the zonk?

[DemonHybrid]

Does anyone find it odd I can literally feel town-aura radiating from PJ?

Meransiel wagon to date that germinated solely based on the role-fishing accusation – Shanba, DH, Kondi, Hydra, Petro

If Meran is Town then at least 1 scum jumped on this easy wagon. Role-fishing is one of the easiest accusations to make that seems like a good scum-tell but rarely is.

/Accurate. Kondi's town, Hydra's likely-town, PJ's also likely-town. Leaves Demon and Shanba.

You're making coherent sense, even on little sleep. And out of your post I think this speaks the most volumes. Out of Demon and Shanba, one of them is very likely to be scum. If Bowser flips town, I'd say to look deeper for Demon. And otherwise, Shanba.

eh. this post kind of makes me freeze a little bit.

Mastin, thoughts?

[DemonHybrid]

Two posts since the day start and he votes Shanba after I post a wall

Alright, mastin. But if this is the zonk, remind me never to play lets make a deal with you ever again. I never liked being in costume anyway

Unvote, Vote: killerjester

[DemonHybrid]

Sleep now, kiddies

[DemonHybrid]

If I had to guess, I'd say CTD is the SK and Yos2 is scum.

Unvote

. Maybe your Shanba vote had merit after all and I mistook the first two of your posts this day as badgering around until a wagon started (that was my point against you).

Vote: Shanba

.

[DemonHybrid]

Can we lynch the much-more-sure-to-be-scum Shanba instead of the ehh-he-kind-of-had-a-few-iffy-posts-but-he-makes-good-valid-points-especially-the-one-against-CTD killerjester?

[DemonHybrid]

mastin, lynch Shanba with us.

[DemonHybrid]

Furthermore, Iecerint might even be a good candidate for an SK. A

vig claim

and short one-sentence posts for the majority of his

latest

posts (though a strong beginning onslaught of information)

Food for thought. I mean, I guess Iecerint could have not used his action, but he said that after MERANSIEL THE TRACKER died soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

[DemonHybrid]

Wait, never mind. I forgot there were 3 kills the first night and that petroleum was the one that was poisoned, not Meran.

FORGET WHAT I SAID I'M FIGURING SHIT OUT HERE

[DemonHybrid]

"It's okay, we're pseudo masons now", otherwise correct.

[DemonHybrid]

Because I haven't read back yet to determine how the Bowser flip influences my reads on them. I think any wagon that isn't KJ right now is foolish since he basically claimed scum.

You don't have to read back. Just read my post.

Also, the fact that he even connected you to SK is the big point, really. Your play fits the bill (and especially Hresz's play; it's disconnected, jabbing, lurky and reactional).

[DemonHybrid]

As far as I can tell he just quoted my posts and said "mmk" a lot. How is that the definitive case?

The fact that it's being called the definitive case even though I JUST pointed out your posts should say something

[DemonHybrid]

Kondi townslipping - demonhybrid, can you confirm that the post that kondi made in the quicktopic was indeed as parama said made in the belief that all three neighbours were confirmed town?

I posted this quite a while ago. Check my Day 1 ISO.

[DemonHybrid]

I'm kind of wondering why Shanba isn't strung up like a christmas ornament at this point, still.

[DemonHybrid]

Votes are unchanged.. there's a VC on this page..

Hydra > That is so full of WIFOM to the point that, ironically, it could impersonate an opera singer.

He went after an inactive slot with reasoning that could only be described as sparse at best, as I stated before, that could easily be simply trying to deflect suspicion onto a softer target by going "look guys, lurkers!".

I like this David Xanatos guy. Come over and meet my family sometime, we can play a board game and eat some cake.

[DemonHybrid]

Can we lynch Shanba, and then Iecerint can shoot KJ? That's really the best of both worlds here.

[DemonHybrid]

Unvote, Vote: killerjester

. Iecerint, shoot Shanba, please.

[DemonHybrid]

Unvote, Vote: Shanba

Shoot yosarian.

Goddammit, this is what happens when you guys don't listen to me.

[DemonHybrid]

4 voting for shanba, not 5.

[DemonHybrid]

KJ just claimed doctor, MBL.

[DemonHybrid]

Unvote, Vote: Killerjester

Shoot CTD if KJ is a doctor. Shoot Shanba if KJ is scum.

[DemonHybrid]

Well, shanba OR yosarian. Whichever floats your boat, iece.

[DemonHybrid]

Vote: Yosarian2

.

Shanba being a VT is fucking mindblowing. Obviously Iece's shot, so good try.

[DemonHybrid]

High chance of being scum:

Yosarian
Hydra
David
MBL (I can't believe I'm saying that, but...)

Low chance of being scum:

ToastyToast
CTD

Pretty much near impossible chance of being scum:

Iecerint

If CTD is scum, I will nom him for a scummy for basically being nostradamus in a game of mafia.
I can't picture Iecerint being scum.

[DemonHybrid]

Lynch pool should be yosarian, xantos, buddylee, hydra.

I happen to have a town read on buddylee and hydra, so my bottom-two-have-to-be-scum ppl are xantos and yosarian
I would vote, but my guess would be a 4-man scum team, which makes us 5:3

Unvote

It's basically "find the odd man out" of the four, then.

[DemonHybrid]

Sounds good.

Yosarian?

[DemonHybrid]

Vote: David Xanatos

. You, nor any of your predecessors, even CLAIMED cop, and now you're building this huge elaborate claim that I don't buy in the least.

[DemonHybrid]

You didn't even bother claiming it today before you launched into that schpiel, which seems weird to me.

Would it make you feel better if we lynched Yosarian? Then when he flips scum, we can lynch you for lying about you being roleblocked when Iece should have been roleblocked for taking a 50/50 on Yosarian/Shanba?

[DemonHybrid]

Hey, at least MBL's our odd man out.

DX, Yosarian, Hydra if we are 3:5.

[DemonHybrid]

NOPE

UNVOTE

YOU ARENT THE FUCK OFF MY LIST BUT I NEED TIME TO THINK AS TO WHETHER YOU COULD REALLY BE THAT FUCKING CARELESS AS TOWN OR ARE JUST SCUM TRYING TO SAVE HIS OWN ASS

I WILL SLEEP ON THIS SHIT AND I HATE YOU

[DemonHybrid]

okay

you know what we should do

Vote: Yosarian

If this guy is scum, we will lynch the fuck out of David for lying about being roleblocked and then we'll know 100%. Cool? Cool.

[DemonHybrid]

And are you comfortable going down after two scum if we follow your plan and the game still continues?

What if Iece gets blocked and killed? (assuming Yosarian isn't a roleblocker)

[DemonHybrid]

And CTD, there's at least a RB, there are signs of a RC (

how'd they know about the Alien? Seems quite a lucky shot N1..

)

Okay, stop right there, get down on the ground and freeze.

Unvote, Vote: David Xanatos

[DemonHybrid]

Next, get in the noose, son. It's time to die. That's WAY too much wine for my liking.

[DemonHybrid]

I'm not claiming perfect play, indeed, I've already openly admitted to missing that situation of 2 claimed Docs being the perfect point to claim, but I'm doing what I can.

uh huh

[DemonHybrid]

Let me flip the wine on you for a second, David. What stops you from being the RC you're talking about?

[DemonHybrid]

Oh my god, can we just fucking kill him already?

[DemonHybrid]

oh my goddddddddddddddddddd

you are missing the pointjffiofjopawfjop

[DemonHybrid]

Okay, so, the big problem is that you keep interchanging the terms "guilty" and "has a gun". WHICH IS A DEAD GIVEAWAY that you're confused about your claim.

[DemonHybrid]

You can talk all you want about screenshots. Point is, you took a screenshot of a draft that you were writing, which doesn't prove anything. And there is no way to prove that you got a certain wording in a PM.

What we DO know is that you interchanged those two terms. So, die.

[DemonHybrid]

Given that the Vig was already revealed and pretty much confirmed, I'd say there's a pretty solid case on a "Has a Gun" = Guilty.

Vig's been claimed/revealed since, what, Day 1?

What Day is it, again?

[DemonHybrid]

Okay. I just received all alignments from the mod. Totally mod confirmed.

It says, from the modconfirmed message from the mod, that you're scum. 100% confirmed by the mod.

[DemonHybrid]

Yes.

[DemonHybrid]

If I see it come from Amrun's mouth, I will believe it.

But since then...

all i know is that you mixed up "has a gun" with "guilty". 100% confirmed.

[DemonHybrid]

*until then

[DemonHybrid]

Yeah. the correspondence is that he screenshotted a draft that he wrote, and Amrun crushed it. And now he's faking mod interactions to get us to believe his claim.

[DemonHybrid]

his claim is fake

fuckingggggggg killlllllll die fuck killllllllllll fuck fuck KILLLL DIE

d̞̻̩̦͖̗͙͒ͮ̏́iͪ̊e͔̲͎̲ͫ͐̾͊eͧ͂̚͠ḙ̍͘e̡͍̺̟̻͖̜ͮ̍ͯͩe̜̻͒̄͆̈́́e̺͖̽͆́̓͊͂̿ë͋̐̃e̦ͦ̎ͅe̖̝̤͈̝̺̍͐̇͡




tl;dr: Please lynch him.

[DemonHybrid]

Assuming you're Town that is.

[DemonHybrid]

1. Make sure to follow the sitewide rules, too.
2. Play to fulfill your win condition, as specified in your Role PM.
3. Each Day will last ~14 days; each Night will last ~48 hours. This may vary somewhat, but probably not.
4. Votes must be bolded and should be at the start of a line whenever possible. The vote tags are also acceptable. Unvotes are not required to change your vote.
5. Lynching requires a majority vote. If a majority is not reached before deadline, the Day will end without a lynch.
6. When a majority is reached, Twilight begins. All players are allowed to post during Twilight, even the lynchee.
7. One "Bah" post is allowed. Do not post anything that could be construed as game related information.
8. Do not communicate outside this thread without permission. You will be told if you are an exception to this rule.

9. Do not

quote

any mod communication or anything which originated outside of the game thread.

10. Unsportsmanlike conduct (or the appearance thereof) can and will get you modkilled or force-replaced, if it is excessive.
11. Do not edit or delete your posts, if you have access to do so.
12. Do not post in sizes smaller than the default or encrypt anything in your posts. Try not to post in colors other than the default (except for use in VCA and analysis). The color Navy Blue is reserved for me.
13. Prods occur after 72 hours without a post. After another 48 hours, a second prod is issued.
14. Unannounced inactivity for a week or more (regardless of game phase) results in modkill.
15. If you must go V/LA, please post a notice in-thread and send me a PM beforehand.
16. If you need to speak with me, you can either send me a PM or ask in-thread using Mod: Message. Both are fine.
17. Any and all of the above rules are subject to change at any time, and without notification - though all changes will be avoided and as much notice as possible will be given, if necessary.

So, where was the part about risking a modkill by faking mod interactions? I only see a rule about QUOTING THEM

[DemonHybrid]

thanks for calling me stupid though!

[DemonHybrid]

10. Unsportsmanlike conduct (or the appearance thereof) can and will get you modkilled or force-replaced, if it is excessive.

I'm 95% sure that faking mod interactions would be considered pretty high up in the list of "unsportsmanlike conduct". It would also rate pretty highly in "things that are likely to get you blacklisted".

No, it wouldn't.

[DemonHybrid]

^ I'm on David.

[DemonHybrid]

Vote:MBL

Need to show where I'm standing. Even if DX made a dumb mistake, he sounds genuine.

What the fuck are you doing

[DemonHybrid]

Meh.

Unvote, Vote: MrBuddyLee

That was far back.

[DemonHybrid]

Why didn't anyone say "DH, just fucking read ISO 14"?

[DemonHybrid]

Lynch MBL.

If town, shoot David, then follow an alternate reality of lynch Yos, shoot/lynch hydra. If scum, shoot Yosarian.

Lynch Hydra.

Shoot/Lynch ToastyToast if the game is still running at that point.

Game.

[DemonHybrid]

I believe Hydra should be our last scum, and therefore, there shouldn't be a need to off Toasty.

[DemonHybrid]

I believe it's MBL, Yos, Hydra. Simple as that.

[DemonHybrid]

DX town does not a Yosarian town make. Yosarian screams scum.

[DemonHybrid]

Please do it.

[DemonHybrid]

So, like, Toasty, me AND David are scum?

[DemonHybrid]

Yeah no

iece, please hammer.

[DemonHybrid]

sorry, not listening.

The 5 people on the wagon: Yos, Me, Toast, DX, CTD. No quickhammer.

So, are you seriously suggesting 3 of me, Yos, Toast and DX are scum? EVEN if DX and Yos were scum, I'm not, and you'd have to be a fucking fool to believe Toast is.

[DemonHybrid]

Vote: Yosarian

For a while, Toast and I were worried that this was an MBL+DX gambit. Thanks for not creating that doubt in my mind.

[DemonHybrid]

I'm guessing Iece thought the same thing, along with the scum factional nightkill.

[DemonHybrid]

I'm betting that it's either no-shot, or a shot on DX (Iece thinking the same thing; a maybe-gambit between MBL and DX).

I mean, give it up, Yosarian. Lets do the math.

We have me and Toast; Parama went down as a scum neighbor. What's the likelyhood of two scum in the same neighborhood? Nearly nil, so Toast and I cannot be scum.

CTD has surefire protected Iece. There's so much evidence that points that CTD is telling the truth. Obvious setting-up by scum to try to get him lynched by leaving him alone (or, scum found DX more of a threat).

The interactions between Iece, Shanba and KJ point to Iece being town, as well as some of the shots that he took. Shanba getting shot almost makes him confirmed town, due to the amount of suspicion on him.

That leaves...

13. Yosarian2
16. Hydra (Thor655 + Magister Ludi)**


oh, ok

[DemonHybrid]

Iece CAN claim his action, but does it really matter?

If he shot you or Hydra and you didn't die, that could mean bulletproof scum, could it not?

If he shot DX, that doesn't really answer anything.

If he reserved his shot due to fear of losing in LyLo, or whatever, then that's also a given.

Basically, unless he decided to take a shot at CTD, Toast or me, you're just stalling your own death. And I've got other games to join, so if we could just wrap this up...

[DemonHybrid]

You think Icerent would shoot...the confirmed gunsmith who just lynched the mafia roleblocker? What are you, high?

How in the world could you ever have thought of that as a gambit? It was SO OBVIOUS Xantos was town yesterday, and he lynched the MAFIA ROLEBLOCKER, in a game where there was a claimed vig and a claimed cop. That would be the dumbest scum play in the history of the website.

Right now, there's a 90% chance that Hydra is the last scum, and perhaps a 10% chance that Hydra and CTD is scum. The fact that the scum killed the cop and apparently knew he wouldn't get doc protection, despite CTD's promise yesterday to flip a coin, is a pretty big black mark against CTD, but it's possibly Hydra was just that desprate to take a chance, especally if he's kill immune but not gunsmith immune.

And you joined in 2005? You've had a sheltered mafia career. Haven't seen any game-winning clutch scum vs. scum bus gambits, haven't you?

I remember specifically that everyone asked for Iecerint to be protected, so your point is moot.

[DemonHybrid]

You know what, though, I'll humor you.

Unvote, Vote: Hydra

.

It really doesn't matter what order you two will die in. And if one of you happen to be town, then Iece will just shoot the odd man out. If Hydra is town, Iece will just shoot you, and we'll lynch CTD. If Hydra is scum, but you're town, we'll just lynch CTD.

You have no reason to turn this down if you're town.

Preview edit: Toast wanted Iece and Iece alone protected. I wonder who CTD felt like listening to.

[DemonHybrid]

Okay, then I was wrong about where the night actions should go.

Question: Do you find Toast, Iece and I town? All 3 of us.

[DemonHybrid]

Fine.

[DemonHybrid]

I did not shoot last night.

I figure it's OK to come clean about it now that the Roleblocker has flipped. I'm a 2-shot vig. I have no more shots.

I think it's crazyworld that CTD would protect me over DX when the roleblocker flipped, but w/e.

I'm visiting relatives, so I'm V/LA this weekend. Should still be able to post once or twice.

It doesn't matter. It just means we have to choose carefully and decide whether or not CTD is telling the truth.

[DemonHybrid]

You know, you guys keep using the term "Mafia Godfather" as someone who's bulletproof, rather than someone who shows up as innocent in a cop investigation. That's not usual in today's meta.

[DemonHybrid]

Well, lets assume Hydra is town, and Yos/CTD/Toast (oh god, I hope not) are scum. There's been no quickvote, no quickhammer, and no setting up from either of them with the exception of Yos suspecting Hydra and mostly Hydra alone.

[DemonHybrid]

I didn't mean all 3, just a combination of 2 from those 3.

I'm just saying, there's little chance of Hydra being anything but scum here in any case. I really see no unwarranted suspicions coming from anyone at this point.

[DemonHybrid]

Also, I read all of today quickly, the fact that Yosarian first thoughts were going straight to claiming that he is 'not bulletproof' and then claiming the player who did get shot it mafia godfather is insane, and then claims 'vanilla townie' as if that proves he isn't mafia, speaks of scum panic and mentality.

(shrug) I claimed "not bulletproof" before I knew who Icerenet had targeted. If I was scum, that would have been fairly risky.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm.

[DemonHybrid]

Your statement to Iec didn't make any sense.

[DemonHybrid]

Six alive.
Four to lynch.
This makes no sense - you have to get someone else to vote me and *then* you can start making bold statements about who is scum on my wagon and whether or not I'm scum for lacking a quickhammer.

Whatever, I thought for some reason that you had a Yos town read. I don't know why I wrote that.

[DemonHybrid]

Well, lets assume Hydra is town, and Yos/CTD/Toast (oh god, I hope not) are scum. There's been no quickvote, no quickhammer, and no setting up from either of them with the exception of Yos suspecting Hydra and mostly Hydra alone.

I dunno why I wrote this. At least this proves that CTD and Toast cannot be scum together, and of course they wouldn't be. I'd be heartbroken.

I'm 98% sure it's Hydra, and about 70% sure on Yos. I might have said this before, but if CTD is scum, I'll congratulate him. If Toasty is scum, I'll pay him my life savings and go live as a hermit.

[DemonHybrid]

I think the common consensus is that Hydra is the lynch for today. Do we have enough information at this point, to avoid any additional WIFOM?

[DemonHybrid]

If we lynch Hydra and he flips scum Rolecop, lets think hard between Yosarian and CTD.

[DemonHybrid]

yre=-yoreopiopyerkophkropgkeowigjweiogjweiogjio

[DemonHybrid]

Hydra lynch?

[DemonHybrid]

then

less do it

I KICK IT COMPLEX

[DemonHybrid]

whose the person with the LOLBULLETPROOF claim?

No one. Bulletproof godfather was just put on the table as a possible scum role.

[DemonHybrid]

lp[gesp[gk

[DemonHybrid]

fjiowjhfiowajfio!~

can we please do something

[DemonHybrid]

Please keep all hands and feet inside the hydra at all times.

....hey